Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:19:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Dave and Grace's visit Well, Dave and Grace (Pearson) Gudgel from Tuscon Arizona came to visit this last weekend on their trip around the northwest. Great people, but of course I guess I should have suspected that (they are Gudgels after all). We went to dinner a couple times and went over to my dads, (Ralph Doyal Johnson Gudgel) and had a great time talking about and looking over stuff about, mainly, Henry T. Gudgel and Sarah Anne Johnson Gudgel. Dave also uses the family tree maker program. I'll try to post a picture from the get together if it turns out OK. Dave and Grace went on to Long Beach WA for a week of interesting vacation stuff. Bob Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:33:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: NEW GUDGEL INFO. Hi everybody! While surfin' around on the net last night I decided to visit Bucks Co., PA Gen Web page. Found this item listed there: Landowners of Philadelphia Co., PA-1734: Franconia Township: Frederick GOTTCHALK - 150 (This was listed on the Bucks Co. Web Page and the 150 meant amount of land--could mean acres. (?). I have previously set the time of arrival of this family in America as abt. 1734 since we knew Andrew was b. 1727 and is said to have arrived as a small boy with his parents. Also remember that Frederick left a Will probated in 1748 in Philadelphia Co., PA. This seems to be the earliest I have found any information). I hope to get back to the GODSHALK's (etc.) in America series any day now. Have been working long days lately. Also getting youngest daughter ready to move back to college soon. Older daughter has accepted a teaching position (YEAH!) teaching first grade. She's very excited and will be moving home for about 6 weeks till she and her roommate (who is also teaching near here) can get into their house October 1st. They are also bringing a dog. So think about me...I may be going bonkers before they all get moved and settled :) Anyone got an extra room if I get desperate . Would like to know what everyone's been doing lately? Vacations? Research? Or just veggin' out in front of the tube? TTYL, Linda Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Frederick G. + Smitty returned mail This is what I was trying to tell you guys about a while ago. A copy of the deed can be found on page 213 of book 9 of the deeds of Park Co, PA. This has got to be the one I have a copy of that is very hard to read. Another one should be ordered, but, I'm not sure if it would be any easier to read now. The deed is for Anne Mary and Frederick Gudgell is what is written on my copy. Also, I've been getting email bounces for Smitty. Evidently she has a full mailbox or her account has expired or something. Does anyone know, or does someone have another email address for her that we could find out what's happening? Bob Gudgel, Seattle > While surfin' around on the net last night I decided to >visit Bucks Co., >PA Gen Web page. Found this item listed there: >Landowners of Philadelphia Co., PA-1734: >Franconia Township: Frederick GOTTCHALK - 150 Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:31:21 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: keep searching? Sure wish one or more of us could settle in Bucks Co, PA or at the PA archives for a month and dig into the material to see if Fred is really related to our Andrew G. I still think that searching for clues to what happened to Fred's other children, as mentioned in the will and land records, might provide clues Has anyone done a systematic search of ALL ships arrival records for PA and Maryland over the time period we believe the Gudgel's arrived? It would take physically going to the states I believe as not all the records are published, right? What are folks up to? Well we are sitting in a cool 60-70 degree weather in case any of you want to eat your heart's out. The flowers are at their height. And I unfortunately am stuck in doors trying to construct a camera case for my son's expensive camera so that it will fit into the 1000+ cubic inch shoulder bag that he needs to be using as an important carry on bag (along with key items like medications, papers, money) when he begins his round the world trip in a month (beginning at a volunteer work camp in Japan). We may have to give up and find a larger shoulder bag but that's tough as we don't want the bag to be too big or it won't work well. I would LOVE to be hiking in the mts or doing genie research, or even writing my travel guide but all will have to wait. Maybe they will have to wait even longer than I expect because I am told I MUST go out and get a job. I guess my "sponsor" is tired of me not producing a book and of money leaving instead of coming in. I personally don't think 3 yrs is too long to create a work of art--well maybe not art, but still these things take time--especially when it is necessary to personally check out restaurants, glacier cruises, tours, etc--right? (not to speak of keep track of PTA and school related volunteer work and the city's revision of the comprehensive plan, and --well you get the idea) Dianne G-H Anchorage Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: [PABUCKS-L] ROCKHILL TOWNSHIP Gudgel Listees- This came across the Bucks Co., PA mail list and thought you might find it interesting since Rockhill Township borders Richland Township, where we found record of old Andrew. It gives a good description of the area and the economy there in early days. Linda >Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 23:44:41 -0400 >From: "William A. Diehl" >Subject: [PABUCKS-L] ROCKHILL TOWNSHIP >Resent-From: PABUCKS-L@rootsweb.com > > >From the book: Place Names in Bucks County >> by: George Mac Reynolds >> Copyright : 1942 >> Published by the Bucks County Historical Society > >ROCKHILL TOWNSHIP-- >This township (now East and West Rockhill Townships) is bounded >northwest by Milford and Richland Townships, northeast by Haycock and >Bedminster Townships, southeast by Hilltown and southwest by the >Bucks-Montgomery line, bordering on Franconia and Upper Salford >Townships, Montgomery County. Its first settlers were mainly Germans >from the Palatinate. The township was established in 1740 by an order of >Court. An unusual circumstance in this connection was that the petition >came, not from its own people, but from residents of Richland, which had >been made a township in 1734. People in those early days were sorely >perplexed by bad roads and the Richland dwellers protested that the >roads in the unorganized district to the southeast received no care from >anybody. The Court acted promptly and favorably, naming at the same time >a road supervisor and a constable. The decree granting the township >recites: "The same to be bounded on the northeast by John Penn's manor >of Perkasey, including the same, on the northerly side by Richland and >Lower Milford townships, on the westward by the county line and >southward by the (Hilltown) township line, to be name Rockhill." >However, no name was suggested for the township in the petition nor in >the long endorsement on the draft filed therewith and recorded in Road >Book A, p. 282, the space for the name being left blank in both >endorsement and draft. The year following Court action the township was >surveyed by Nicholas Scull and its boundaries more definitely fixed. Its >rocky and hilly surface suggested the name. An earlier name, applied >probably to only a part of Rockhill, was Freetown. This name is the >subject matter of an important paragraph in Walter E. Baum's recent >delightful historical story of the Sellersville section. He recalls the >fact that the first landowners in Rockhill Township were English >speaking people, but the first actual settlers were Germans, the >English, because of the influx of Germans, never carrying out their >evident intention to settle there. He continues: "Such names as the >Hamiltons and the Robinsons must be added to the Furnaces, for one such >person had planned an English settlement on the Sellersville-Telford >State road. He had a plan to bring a group of families here with >identical allotments of acres for each in the establishment of a village >to bear the name 'Free Town.' The plan never matured. A natural course >of events decreed otherwise. The Mennonites were on their way. Old deeds >show a record of the transfer of the old lands in the 'Free Town' site >of the plain folk, and there, as well as elsewhere in the fertile >(Branch Valley) basin, the English were turned back." The promoter of >this early land exploiting scheme was probably John Furness, or perhaps >Andrew Hamilton, into whose hands the 350-acre Free Town passed from >James Steel, Hamilton in turn transferring it to Jacob Kolb January 14, >1730/31, about the time the scheme collapsed. Jacob Kolb was probably >the father of Isaac Kolb, named as the grantor in one of the deeds >referred to by Mr. Baum. This deed, recorded in the Recorder's Office in >Doylestown in Deed Book No. 18, p. 61, was "made the 16th day of >January, 1764, between Isaac Kolb of Rock Hill (alias free Town) in the >County of Bucks, yeoman, of the one part, And Samuel Bechtel, of >Sacconum in the County of Northampton, yeoman, of the other part," for >150 acres of land, which, as cited elsewhere in this same deed, was part >of 350 acres that "Edward Shippen, Thomas Story and James Logan, >Commissioners of Property for the Province of Pennsylvania, by patent >dated the 26th of 11 mo., 1702, did grant and Confirm unto John Furness >.... situate in Freetown af's'd." Another early name for the township >was "Servants." When Hilltown Township was organized (1722-24), a draft >thereof was filed in the Quarter Sessions Office, in which the >unorganized northern boundary territory is marked "The Servants >Township." It may have been so named because the land was originally >guaranteed to indentured servants by Penn and afterwards laid out by the >younger Proprietaries. This draft is recorded in the Sessions Office in >Doylestown in Road Book A, p. 276. In the sale of land William Penn >ofttimes granted certain privileges. Large purchasers had the right to >pool their acreage and establish townships. But Penn also made >provisions for the less well-to-do pioneers, and thus servants were >permitted to hold land in the Province. Townships were established where >servants could purchase land, but only servants who came to America with >the first purchasers had that privilege. There were reservations of that >kind made in Bucks County and it is apparent that Rockhill was one of >such townships. Before the boroughs of Sellersville, Perkasie and >Telford were detached, Rockhill, with its 19,168 square acres, was the >largest township in the county. Because of its size and large >population, 3,369 in 1870, sometime prior to that year it was divided >into two election districts, with the polling place for the west >district at Sellersville and for the east district at Hagersville. On >December 17, 1870, an innocent-looking petition was presented to the >Court, praying for a division of the township into East and West >Rockhill Townships. This proved to be a firebrand that started a bitter >contest, lasting twenty years and dragging through Court terms of three >Judges --Chapman, Watson and Yerkes--with leading attorneys arrayed on >either side. Following presentation of the petition, an election was >ordered for January 26, 1871. The proposition was badly beaten, West >Rockhill district's vote (122 against to 38 for) alone being sufficient >to defeat it. Quiescent until 1875, the movement was revived in that >year, only to be blocked by a remonstrance bearing signatures of 290 >taxables. The fight continued, with opposition gradually weakening, >until December 11, 1889, when the last petition was presented to the >Court. The pro-division advocates won at the election on Feburary 19, >1890, and on May 24 of the same year Judge Harman Yerkes signed the >decree that made the division effective. The line dividing the townships >begins in the old Bethlehem Road (Route 309) at Rich Hill, following the >road southward to the Sellersville Borough line, and then coincides with >the southeast Sellersville Borough line and ends on the Hilltown >Township line, thus cutting the old township into two divisions of about >equal area. Between 1870 and 1880 Rockhill had its full share of >old-time industries. Jacob Sorver and Noah Wambold had tanneries. The >old Headman pottery, which back in 1808 was turning out the beautiful >sgraffite ware, was still in the hands of a member of the family, Peter >Headman, one of the last potters to make the now scarce tulipware of our >grandfathers' days, the old "poi schisser' of the Pennsylvania Germans. >Daniel M. Kramer ran a brickyard. Abraham Detweiler and Simon Springer >were hand-manufacturing cigar boxes, Gunsmith John Griffith had enough >customers to keep him quite busy, Nicholas Beck was the township's >curtier, and John R. Diehl was still making the big octagonal pumps with >wooden spouts and handles and ornamental tops to keep out dust and >insects. Boot and shoe shops flourished. Cigar making was carried on >extensively in this township and the adjoining township of Milford. >Whole families in the villages and farmers' families in the country in >times of slack farm work were employed in the industry, doing the work >at home. In some of the factories a boy's apprenticeship would run from >three to five years and at the end of that time he could turn out the >finest grade of handmade cigar on the market. The cigarmaker's outfit >comprised a smooth inexpensive board, about nine by fifteen inches, a >cutting knife and a "tuck" or block of wood having a fixed knife blade >for cutting and measuring the finished cigar. The process of making the >cigar looked simple, but the high-selling "perfecto" required skill in >the making and long experience in handling "the leaf." The handmade >cigar making industry was only another victim of the machine age. After >various experiments with machines that would accomplish one or two of >the processes, a machine that can make a complete cigar was perfected in >the year 1919. So highly has the industry now been mechanized that a >contrivance, operated by four girls, has been invented that sorts the >cigars by color as well as it can be done by the human eye. Eighty per >cent of the cigars of today are machine made. Bucks County produced >11,360,000 cigars in 1932, but by 1935 this figure had dropped to >8,053,000. Although statistics are not at hand, it is likely that cigar >consumption is now increasing. The principal threat to the cigar >industry is the cigarette, which reached an annual sale of 134 billions >in this country in 1935 and today is likely much higher. >Bill Diehl >WAD52@icdc.com > > >==== PABUCKS Mailing List ==== >Please Support Rootsweb >Contact List Manager at judjack@rocketmail.com or judjack@hotmail.com For List Rules visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/1006 click on Mailing List >Visit the Bucks Co. PAGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~pabucks >or Genealogy of Pa http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6508/ > > > From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:06:08 EDT Subject: Home again After about four and a half weeks on the road, we are glad to be home. We had a great trip. We spent a couple of weeks in Montana, about a week and a half in Washington, and about a week coming home through Oregon and Northern California with a couple of days in Las Vegas. We had a great time visiting Bob, Penny, Phillip, and Robbie (didn't see much of Robbie) and Doyal and Kay. All great people and we had a wonderful time. Thanks very much for the hospitality. The weather here has turned into the typical summer monsoon season. The day starts out in the 60's or 70's, goes up to the mid 90's by early afternoon, the thunderstorms move in and drop the temperatures into the seventies or low eighties, the thunderstorms move on and we have nice cool evenings. It is a great time of year if the monsoons are working. Hope they keep it up for a month or so. We spent a little time at the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City, and also at the Regional National Archives facility in Seattle. We didn't find much in Salt Lake. Actually did better in Seattle. We were working on my wifes genealogy, but I got in a little time on the Gudgels. We filled in a few gaps in documentation, but not much else. We have been home a couple of days and are finally getting through the mail, bills, etc. Hope to get most of the yard work done over the weekend and then get on to some fun things. Linda, we would enjoy helping with the cleanup of the cemetary. We are pretty tied up until late October, and then I am scheduled to serve on a Grand Jury for the U.S. District Court. I don't know how long that will last. In Virginia, the Grand Jury for the U.S. District Court lasted for six months when a member of my staff was on one. I would enjoy serving on a Grand Jury. It is much more interesting that regular jury duty, but I don't like being tied down for six months. Soooo I hope that it gets cancelled or I don't get selected. Anyway, if that doesn't keep us in town all winter, we could probably get back that way some time in the late fall or early spring. There are some other things I would like to do in that part of the country which we could take care of at the same time. We will keep it on our list of things to do. Well, it is getting past my bed time and I had better quit for now. Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:06:05 EDT To: lfinnell@lex.infi.net Subject: Frederick GOTTCHALK land ownership Linda; You posted a note on about August 4 with the following information: >Landowners of Philadelphia Co., PA-1734: > Franconia Township: Frederick GOTTCHALK - 150 A year or so ago I ran across a book entitled "Thirty Thousand Names of Immigrants, Immigrants to Pennsylvania from 1727 to 1776, ..." which states, on page 472, that Frederick GADSCHALK paid quit-rent on 150 acres of land in Franconia Township, PA prior to 1734. It also lists, on page 477, a Herman GADSCHALK as paying quit-rent on 100 acres of land in Towamoncin Township, PA prior to 1734. The names are close to being the same, the location is the same, and the amount of land is the same. Don't know where that gets us, but your note triggered a memory (which is unusual these days) and I thought I would pass it along. Dave Gudgel Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:17:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Gitchel encounter Glad to see that Dave and Grace made it home OK. It was a great pleasure to meet them and spend time with them. A couple evenings ago, at a customer appreciation party that a local vendor put on, I noticed a name tag: Keith Gitchel I said hi, showed him my name tag, and asked him about his name. He didn't know much, he said, but his grandparents came from Kansas, I think it was. He also said the name Gitchel had been spelled with two Ls in the past. Gitchell Interesting. Bob Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:54:22 -0800 From: Dianne To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Gudgel research results? Dave, Glad you are back and one line. Please tell us what you learned about the Gudgel's while on your trip. I am surprised you didn't find much in Salt Lake. Can you tell us what areas you spent time on--particular files perhaps? Some of us have spent time in SL and have found an incredible amount of stuff--most seems fairly accurate, but some not at all. Dianne Holmes From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:38:55 EDT Subject: Sarah Ann (JOHNSON) GUDGEL I have been spending most of my research time lately trying to find information on Sarah Ann (JOHNSON) GUDGEL. This is the information that I have. Only part of it is documented. The rest I picked up from the Ancestral Files in Salt Lake City and a couple of other sources. Here goes: Sarah Ann JOHNSON, b. December 08, 1829 in Owensville, Gibson Co., IN, m. to Henry Thomas GUDGEL in Owensville, Gibson Co., IN on February 19, 1846 by Rev.John Kirkpatrick, d. January 07, 1899. Henry and Sarah lived in the Owensville, IN area until September 1850 when they moved to Athens, Menard Co., IL. They had six children, Thomas Jefferson b. 1847 in IN, William Alexander b. 1850 (July 08) in IN, Andrew b. abt. 1852 in IL, Ann (Missouri Ann?) b. Abt. 1856 in IL, Jacob, b. Abt 1858 in IL, Henry b. Abt. 1860 in IL. After Henry's death in November of 1861, Sarah had twin sons Phillip Sheridan and Charles Sherman b. in 1865. I remember being told by someone that Henry and Sarah moved to Illinois to follow Sarah's parents there. Does that ring a bell with anyone? If that is true, the parents probably moved a little before or at the same time as Henry and Sarah. Any additional information that any of you may have would be greatly appreciated. I have hit nothing but brick walls trying to connect Sarah with any of the Johnsons (20 or so couples) living in Gibson Co., IN.. I have checked wills and marriage records for Gibson Co. and have kept lists of the Johnsons to have something to compare with. I am now thinking about going up to Mesa to the LDS Family History Center there and going through the Census records for Menard Co., IL for 1850 and 1860 and making a list of all the Johnsons, then go through the census for Gibson Co., IN for 1840 and 1850 (need the overlap because I don't know whether they moved before or after the 1850 census) and see if I can find the same family. Does that make sense, or am I missing something. Would appreciate any comments, information, ideas, etc. Thanks Dave Gudgel Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:19:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL(L) vs. GITCHEL(L) Bob- The fellow you met named GITCHEL(L) is interesting. Did you get his address or do you know how to get in touch with him? I get a call from a Jennifer GUDGEL GETSON, Aurora, CO. last night. Her father, Williard Leon GUDGEL (b. 1941 Ainesworth, NE) had received my mail out I did in 1993 and she was just curious about the GUDGEL's. She has just moved to Aurora from Longmont, CO (near Boulder/Denver area I think) and has 2 small children and a husband, Jim. She is descended from William GUDSHALL and Lucinda THURMAN. She isn't online but if any of you want to contact her you can reach her at: Jennifer GUDGEL GETSON 1672 S. Salida Way Aurora, CO 80017 (303)695-1351 Off the top of my head I can't remember the generations of her line but I'm sure it's the same as Dave GUDGEL's because she knew him and also Pearl Brokofsky of Grand Island, NE. I am sorry I haven't been around much lately. My house is a wreck with 2 daughters, a roommate, and a dog here for a while. Besides I've been working some long days and am just really tired at night. Glad to see you guys are keeping things going. You're a geat bunch. TTYL, Linda Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Gudgel Subject: Gatshall/Getshall This came through another list.... Penny Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:52:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kay Johnson To: SURNAME-QUERY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Gatshall/Getshall Can anyone look up or find any information On Ellen Getshall/Gatshell Feaster she is my great grandmother she was born in 1863 I don't know where,She married my great grandfather William Feaster They lived in the Van Wert/Delphos, Ohio She died in 1956 and she is buried in Ridge Township Cemetery in Van Wert, Ohio. Any help anyone could give me would be appriciated Kay Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:00:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDSHALL vs. GUDGELL Doyal- Sorry for using the surname GUDSHALL in referring to William GUDGELL and Lucinda THURMAN. Everything I have found in Woodford Co., KY on this family has been GUDSHALL and since William was born here I have his name in my database as GUDSHALL--even though I know as an adult he spelled it GUDGELL. When the family left Woodford Co., KY for the Indiana Territory they then began to spell it GUDGEL(L). Those of the family that stayed in KY also eventaully changed the spelling to GUDGELL, with some later dropping the last "L". I have another success story over the weekend....after working on the Marriage Bond Project Saturday at the Courthouse I have found another document. It is the consent for the marriage of Jacob STUCKER and Sally GUDSHALL: ________________________________________________________________________ I hereby certify that I have no pbjection to a license Issuing to joing together in matrimony Jacob STUCKER and Sally GUDSHALL my Daughter given under my hand this 14th day of March 1791. Andrew GUDFHALL {Seal} Andrew GUDFHALL Junior ________________________________________________________________________ Note: the "f" instead of the "s" ad used in those days. I had the minister's return for this marriage dated March 24, 1791 by Rev. Sam Shannon. I have not found the marriage bond but we are only half way through the "S"'s so we may find it yet. Linda Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:14:24 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Sally Gudgel, dau of Andrew G, jr Great research Linda. Have I forgotten something or is it significant that Sally's father was listed as Andrew "jr" on the license? I guess I always thought she was from "sr." But then I don't always have my list in front of me at all time and I get confused. Dianne G-H Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:41:07 -0400 (EDT) To: Dianne From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Sally Gudgel, dau of Andrew G, jr Dianne: Re: Marriage consent: Jacob STUCKER and Sally GUDSHALL, Woodford Co., KY, 1791. Maybe my translation of the marriage consent was confusing but it was plain to me that Andrew GUDFHALL (GUDSHALL) signed the consent and Andrew GUDFHALL (GUDSHALL) signed as a witness. This was the normal procedure in those days. So ANdrew' Jr. was signing as a witness and he was also her brother (or half brother). Linda At 12:14 PM 8/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >Great research Linda. Have I forgotten something or is it >significant that Sally's father was listed as Andrew "jr" on the >license? I guess I always thought she was from "sr." But then I >don't always have my list in front of me at all time and I get >confused. > >Dianne G-H > > From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:58:46 EDT Subject: Another Puzzle In going through some of my information concerning Sarah Ann JOHNSON GUDGEL, I ran across some information I had picked up from the 1880 US Census, for Athens Precinct, Menard County, Illinois, enumerated on June 19 or 24, 1880, page 22. It lists a Mary GRAHAM/JRALEMN? (Very hard to read), a grand daughter, living with Sarah, Andrew, Jacob, Henry and Phillip in 1880. The Census lists her as - White - Female - 8 yrs old - Grand Daughter - Occupation, At home - Could not read or write - Born in IL - Father born in IL - Mother born in IL. Who is she? Since she is listed as the granddaughter of the head of household, Sarah Ann, one would assume she was the daughter of one of Sarah Ann's children. Since she did not have the name Gudgel, it would seem she would about have to have been the daughter of Sarah Ann's only daughter, Missouri Ann, for whom I have little information other than that she was born on July 10, 1855 and that she died young. My Aunt, Pearl GUDGEL BROKOFSKY gave me some information that indicated that Missouri Ann married a man named Osgood and had one daughter named Molly. Not a very good fit, but I don't know anything about the source of the information. Since the age given for Mary Graham? is 8, she would have been born when Missouri Ann was about 17. That is certainly possible and since Missouri Ann is said to have died young, it might make sense that Mary would have been living with her grandmother. Anyone know anything about this? It is not a great issue, just a curiosity. Dave Gudgel Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:11:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: ANOTHER GREAT GUDGEL FIND IN WOODFORD CO., KY Well, this is another red letter day for me! Found another marriage bond and consent for Henry STUCKER and Lydia GUDSHALL, dau. of Daniel GUDSHALL! I had a record of this marriage but had never seen any documents until now. This should be all of the marriage bonds, consents, or minister's returns that I have found as listed in my reasearch here--unless we get lucky and something else would turn up . ________________________________________________________________________ Marriage Consent: Sir please to issue a Marriage License for Henry STUCKER to intermarry with my Daughter, Lidia, and oblige _____ ______. To the Clerk of Woodford County March 5, 1796 Daniel GUDSHALL James Edwards Saml. (Lambles, Lawless?) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: The two blanks I can't make out. This is signed in the original signature of Daniel GUDSHALL and not his seal with an "x"! Daniel, we think is the son of our old Andrew GUDGEL, but we have yet to find documentation to prove it. If so, this would make Lydia the granddaughter of old Andrew. ________________________________________________________________________ Marriage Bond: Know all men by thefe prefents, that We Henry STUCKER and James EDWARDS are held and firmly bound unto Isaac Shelby, Efq; Governor, or Chief Magiftrate of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, in the juft and full Sum of Fifty Pounds, current money of Kentucky, to whom payment well and truly to be made to our faid Governor, as his Succeffors, for the ufe of the Commonwealth, we bind ourfelves, our Heirs, Executors, and Adminiftrators, jointly, feverally and firmly by thefe prefents, fealed with our feals, and dated this 5th day of March 1796 in the 4th Year of the Commonwealth. The condition of the above Obligation is fuch, that, Whereas there is a Marriage fhortly intended to be held and folmenized between the above bound Henry STUCKER and Lydia GUDSHALL wherefore, if there be no lawful impediment to the faid Marriage, then the above Obligation to be void, otherwife to remain in full force and virtue. his Henry X STUCKER {seal} mark James Edwards {seal} Tho (Lurpin?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Note: I have no idea who James Edwards (also signed the consent) or Tho. (Lurpin?). I wonder why her father, Daniel, didn't also sign this bond as it was dated the same day? Maybe he didn't have the 50 punds to put up for the bond-or would that keep him from signing as her father as long as someone put the money up? Comments? Linda Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Mary GRAHAM connection to GUDGEL family Dave- I have printed off you message about Mary Graham and will look in my database and see if I can come up with anything. Will let you know. If all goes well Gary and I, along with Smitty CROSSFIELD from Lawrenceburg, will be in Henderson, KY on Saturday, to meet our long lost cousin, Betty Hindman, a descendant of Joel GUDGEL, son of Jacob GUDGEL and Drucilla DRISKILL. Joel was a grandson of old Andrew GUDGEL. I hope this collection of Betty's mother's, Annie BARRON GUDGELL proves to be what I think it is. Will let you know. It's been a year since I called Betty's brother, just on a hunch, and he put me in touch with Betty. I talked to her Saturday and she said she has gone through this box of stuff time and time again trying to piece it together. Maybe between the two of us we can make some sense of it. Hope so. Linda Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:51:21 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Puzzle Gudgeld@aol.com wrote: > > In going through some of my information concerning Sarah Ann JOHNSON GUDGEL, I > ran across some information I had picked up from the 1880 US Census, for > Athens Precinct, Menard County, Illinois, enumerated on June 19 or 24, 1880, > page 22. It lists a Mary GRAHAM/JRALEMN? (Very hard to read), a grand > daughter, living with Sarah, Andrew, Jacob, Henry and Phillip in 1880. Who were the others listed? Henry could not have been Sarahs son. How old was Phillip? How old was Andrew? Jacob? Ages would tell if they were her son. I don't have the list of the other children before me so don't know if they were her children. Doyal Gudgel Sr. going 77 real soon! Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:53:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Witherspoon Subject: Gudgel Descendant I have been meaning to send this information to the list for others to try to link to. Nancy Jane Gudgel is my earliest Gudgel, she married William P. Teel. Please let me know if you find any errors or incorrect information. Any other information would be helpful and appreciated. I have monitored the Gudgel list for some time, and have enjoyed the information pertaining to Andrew Gudgel and Elizabeth Paul. I am grateful to all. 1 Frederick GATTSCHALK b: 1701 . +Anna MARIE b: 1705 . 2 [1] Andrew GUDGEL b: 1727 in Palatine, Germany d: 16 Aug 1815 in Owensville, Indiana . *2nd Wife of [1] Andrew Gudgel: . *3rd Wife of [1] Andrew Gudgel: .... +Elizabeth PAUL b: Abt. 1763 m: 05 Oct 1793 in Woodford Co., Kentucky d: 02 Dec 1823 .... 3 [2] Nancy Jane GUDGEL b: 02 Dec 1797 in Kentucy d: 06 Dec 1878 in Owensville, Gibson Co., Indiana ....... +William P. TEEL b: 04 Jun 1787 in Pennsylvania m: 09 Jul 1816 in Gibson Co., Indiana d: 12 Jun 1832 in Owensville, Gibson, Indiana ....... 4 Elizabeth TEEL b: 17 Jun 1815 d: 1844 in Gibson Co., Indiana .......... +Jackson Deazmon WITHERSPOON b: 20 Apr 1815 in Alabama m: 16 Mar 1837 in Gibson Co., Indiana .......... 5 John Logan WITHERSPOON b: 16 Sep 1842 in Gibson Co., Indiana d: 27 Jan 1886 in Gibson Co., Indiana ............. +Catherine J. SCOTT b: 28 Oct 1842 d: Abt. 28 Dec 1889 ............. 6 William Henry WITHERSPOON b: 13 Mar 1876 in Gibson, Indiana d: 02 Sep 1927 in Clarendon, Arkansas ................ +Emily Catherine BROADWELL b: 25 Apr 1878 in Gibson, Indiana m: Abt. 1894 d: 24 Dec 1927 in Clarendon, Arkansas ................ 7 Theodore Roosevelt WITHERSPOON b: 07 Jul 1907 in Clarendon, Monroe, Arkansas d: 14 Nov 1991 in Edmond, Oklahoma ................... +Alice Ruth MELTON b: 12 Aug 1916 in Summerville, Georgia m: 04 Oct 1935 d: 04 Dec 1988 in Greenville, Washington, MS ................... 8 John Arthur WITHERSPOON b: 16 Sep 1942 in Greenville, Washington, Mississippi ...................... +Polly Marie WRENN b: 01 Mar 1947 in Pettit, Washington, Mississippi m: 22 Oct 1965 in Greenville, Washington, MS ...................... 9 Michael Arthur WITHERSPOON b: 13 Jun 1968 in Greenville, Washington County, Mississippi .... *2nd Husband of [2] Nancy Jane Gudgel: == Michael Witherspoon michael_witherspoon@yahoo.com http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mwitherspo/ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/3432/wrennpag.htm From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:26:30 EDT To: ralphj@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Puzzle Doyal, The 1880 Census listed Sarah GUDGEL as head of household, age 69; Andrew, son, age 26; Jacob, son age 22; Henry, son, age 20, Phillip, son, age 15, and Mary GRAHAM, grandaughter, age 8. All those ages seem right except Sarah who I think was born on December 8, 1829, which would have made her 60, and Andrew who I think was born on November 14, 1852 and should have been 27. Dave Gudgel Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:16:26 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Puzzle Gudgeld@aol.com wrote: > > Doyal, > The 1880 Census listed Sarah GUDGEL as head of household, age 69; Andrew, son, > age 26; Jacob, son age 22; Henry, son, age 20, Phillip, son, age 15, and Mary > GRAHAM, grandaughter, age 8. All those ages seem right except Sarah who I > think was born on December 8, 1829, which would have made her 60, and Andrew > who I think was born on November 14, 1852 and should have been 27. > > Dave Gudgel My little calculator shows that for Sarah to be the mother of Phillip she would have been 54 when he was born. For her to be the mother of Henry she would have been 49. Was there a Jr? (Henry) Husband Henry died in war. The age of 69 must have been an error. The birth date of 1829 is probably correct. Then she would have been 51 at census time and 36 when Phillip was born. -- Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:33:18 -0800 From: Dianne To: Gudgeld@aol.com CC: ralphj@eskimo.com, gudgel-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: census records Dave, It has been my observation over many years that the federal census records especially dates, need to be checked against each other (every 10 yrs) to see if the birthdates vary. I have found them to vary as much as 5 yrs. It must have depended upon who was giving the information to the census taker and we simply don't know who in the household gave the data. So I never go by the census dates very much except as a rough estimate. I think looking at the civil war widow's pension records might give a hint at her date of birth too. Right? Dianne G-H Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:39:57 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Dianne CC: Gudgeld@aol.com, gudgel-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: census records Dianne wrote: > > Dave, It has been my observation over many years that the federal > census records especially dates, need to be checked against each > other (every 10 yrs) to see if the birthdates vary. I have found > them to vary as much as 5 yrs. It must have depended upon who was > giving the information to the census taker and we simply don't > know who in the household gave the data. So I never go by the > census dates very much except as a rough estimate. I think > looking at the civil war widow's pension records might give a > hint at her date of birth too. Right? It can be depended on. Nothing goes into pension records without witnesses. Doyal > > Dianne G-H -- From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:38:12 EDT To: ralphj@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another Puzzle Doyal, You are absolutely right. I missread the census report. It lists Sarah as being 49. I think it should have been 50, since her birthday had not yet passed when the census was taken in 1880. Yes, everything I have indicates there was a son Henry born in 1860, just a year or so before Henry Sr. died. Henry Jr. is listed as the son of Sarah in both the 1870 and 1880 census, and the two applications I have that were filled out for Sarah for her widows pension and for the childrens pensions list Henry as a son born in 1860. Dave Gudgel Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:20:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Sarah Ann JOHNSON and Henry GUDGEL Thought I'd put in my two cents worth about Sarah Ann JOHNSON and Henry GUDGEL: Henry Thomas GUDGEL (b. 1827 Gibson Co., IN-d. 1862 Pine Bluff, Ark) married Feb. 19, 1846 Sarah Ann JOHNSON in Evansville, Gibson Co., IN. Children: Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL-b. Oct. 20, 1847 Evansville, IN, d. Sept., 1899 Madill, OK. Marr. (1) Sarah JONES (2) Mary MYERS (3)Martha ALLEN. William Alexander GUDGEL-b. July 8, 1950 Indiana, d. 1931 Athens, IL. Marr. Mary Katherine REEVES. Andrew J. GUDGEL-b. 1852 Athens, Menard Co., IL. Single. Henry GUDGEL-b. 1854 Athens, Menard Co., IL, d. April 22, 1940 Athens, IL. Marr. Candacy STARKS. Missouri Ann GUDGEL-b. 1856 Athens, IL, d. young. Marr. an OSGOOD. Jacob M. GUDGEL-b. Athens, IL, d. young. Philip Sheridan GUDGEL-b. Jan. 17, 1862, d. June 3, 1941 Ainesworth, NE. Twin to Charles Sherman GUDGEL. Marr. Ida Belle NASH. Charles Sherman GUDGEL-b. Jan. 17, 1862-d. Jan. 17, 1862. Athens, IL. Twin to Philip Sheridan GUDGEL. 1850 Census-Gibson Co., IN: Henry GUDGELL 24 Male Farmer 200 acres b. Indiana Sarah GUDGELL 25 Fe b. Indiana Thomas J. 3 Male b. Indiana William A. 1/12 Male b. Indiana I have not found anything on the Mary Graham listed in the 1880 census in the household of Sarah Ann JOHNSON GUDGEL. I seem to recall I have seen the name but my filing is not what it should be lately and I have vowed to do better (don't we all) . Guess I can't help on that one. Linda Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:16:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL/WITHERSPOON lines Michael: I really can't add to your direct line of information on the GUDGEL/WITHERSPOON information but I am happy that you have shared this with the list. I did find some dates and locations that I didn't have. I assume you also have the other children of William P. TEEL and Nancy Jane GUDGEL? Besides Elizabeth that you mentioned I have: Mariah- b. 1819 Nicholas- b. 1821 Mary Jane "Polly"-b. 1823 Harriett Jane-b. 1829 Are there others? I believe Nancy did marry a second time to David THOMAS March 19, 1849. He died May 10, 1850-no children of this marriage. Two things I wanted to ask. I have Elizabeth TEEL WITHERSPOON's date of birth as June 17, 1817. Comment? Also, where did you get the year of birth for Frederick GATTSCHALK and Anna Marie? The only information I have is Frederick's date of death as Abt. 1748 since his Will was probated in that year in Philadelphia Co., PA. Comment? Thanks again for sharing your line with us! Linda Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:35:47 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Sarah Ann JOHNSON and Henry GUDGEL Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > Thought I'd put in my two cents worth about Sarah Ann JOHNSON and Henry GUDGEL: > > Henry Thomas GUDGEL (b. 1827 Gibson Co., IN-d. 1862 Pine Bluff, Ark) married > Feb. 19, 1846 Sarah Ann JOHNSON in Evansville, Gibson Co., IN. > Children: This has to be cleared up. Henry did not die in Pine Bluff Ark. He died in the Civil war at Mound City Ill from typhoid fever. This story about dieing in Pine Bluff was a story to cover up the birth of Phillip. He died October 19 1861 if I remember right. But the date is from memory and might be off a few days. From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:43:01 EDT To: ralphj@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sarah Ann JOHNSON and Henry GUDGEL Doyal, You are correct. The military records I have indicate that Henry Thomas died in Mound City, IL. I wasn't sure about the date, but just checked and the death record indicates he died on November 17, 1861. Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:00:52 EDT Subject: Henry T. GUDGEL, Jr. Linda, You indicated that Henry GUDGEL, Jr. was born in 1854, which seems to fit in nicely between Andrew J. (1852) and Missouri Ann (1856) but I have copies of five documents, two census and two pension applications that indicate he was born in 1860 (the two pension documents give a birth date of January 20, 1860) and an affidavit by a Dr. B. F. Farley stating that he was present at the birth of Henry T. GUDGEL on January 20, 1860. The same two pension application state that Missouri Ann GUDGEL was born on July 10, 1855 instead of 1866. Also have an affidavit by a Katherine Ayers stating that she was present at the birth of Missouri Ann on July 10, 1855. Dave Gudgel Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:09:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: HENRY THOMAS GUDGEL Dave and Doyal- Thanks for pointing out these discrepancies. My information came from a descendant of this family and it seems it is in error. I originally questioned the year of birth for Sherman and Charles and apparently offended some family memebers. Am I correct that these twins were born after the death of Henry T. GUDGEL? Are they infact, not the children of Henry T.? I just want to get the record straight. Linda From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:58:04 EDT To: lfinnell@lex.infi.net Subject: Re: HENRY THOMAS GUDGEL Linda, Your are right that there is a discrepancy in the birth dates of Phillip and Charles. They were born on January 17, 1865, over three years after the death of Henry Thomas GUDGEL. The date of 1862, we think, was an attempt to cover up the fact that they were not the children of Henry Thomas. I have no idea who their father was. One story is that Sarah and the children moved in with her father in law, William, and he is the father. I doubt this very much, but I suppose it is possible. The other is that the father was a traveling salesman. I hope to some day find out who the father was, but to this point I don't have a clue. Dave Gudgel Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:00:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: THE GODSHALK(etc.) FAMILY IN AMERICA - Segment #8 TAX LISTS- CONTINUED: BUCKS COUNTY Volume 13--page 770-1787--New Britain Twp.--John GODSHALK, 0-17-2 tax, Samuel GODSHALK, 0-15-4 tax, William GODSHALK, 0-18-6 tax. Page 666--1786--New Britain Twp.==John GODSHALK, 1-1-7 Page 16 tax. Page 583--New Britain Twp.--1785--John GODSHALK, saw mill, 102 a., 3 h, 4 2, 4 c. The estate of Samuel GODSHALK, 125 a., 2 h, 4 c. page 452--New Britain Twp.--1784--John GODSHALK, 102 a, 2 dwellings, 1 outhouse, 9 inhabitants,. page 353--New Britain Twp.-- 1783-- John GODSHALK, 2.2.9 tax. page 223--New Britain Twp.--1782--John GODSHALK, 102 a, 2 h, 4 s, 4 c. page 204--1781--New Britain Twp.--John GOTSHALK, 102 a, 2 h, 4 c. Page 57--New Britain Twp.--1779--John GODSHALK, weaver, 95 a, 4 h, 6 c, William GODSHALK, weaver, 1 c, under "single men" was Samuel GOTSHALK. page 791--1787--Bedminster Twp--Jacob GODSHALK, 0.7.4 tax. Page 671--1786--Bedminster Twp.--Jacob GODSHALK, 0.7.6 tax. Page 579--1785--Bedminster Twp.--Jacob GODSHALN, 60 a, 3 h, 3 c. Page 389-- --1783--Bedminster Twp.--Jacob GODSHALK, 1,2,3 tax. Page 216--1782--Bedminster Twp.--Jacob GODSHALK, 63 a, 2 h, 3 c. Page 200--Bedminster Twp--1781--Jacob GOTSHALK's estate, 64 a, 2 h, 2 c. Page 95--Bedminster Twp.--1779--Under "single men" was Jacob GOTSHALK. CHESTER COUNTY vOL. 12--PAGE 770--1785--East Nottingham Twp.--David GEATCHEL, 1.1.0 tax. Jospeh GEATCHEL, 2,13,9 tax. Page 564--1781 East Nottingham Twp.-- David GETCHEL, 0.6.0 tax, Joseph GETCHEL, 8.0.0. Page 412--East Nottingham Twp.--1781--Joseph GATCHEL,, grist mill, 100 a. 1 h, 3 c, David GATCHEL, 1 h, 3 c. Page 231--1780East Nottingham Two.--James GATCHEL, grist mill, 100 a, 1 h, 3 c, 6 s. Page 131-East Nottingham Twp.-1779--Joseph GATCHEL, grist mill, 100 a, 2 h, 6 s, David GATCHEL, 100 a, 1 h, 3 c, 6 s. Page 17 Page 102--East Nottingham Twp--1774--Elisha GECHALL, 300 a, 4 h, 10 s, 3 servants, Joseph GECHALL, grist mill, 100 a, 2 h, 6 c, 8 s. Under "inmates" was Jeremiah GITCHELL. (note in margin: "Inmate"-not meant in jail, but without property title (son). FAYETTE COUNTY Volume 22--page 620--1786--(did not appear on the 1784 list here)--Luzerne Twp.--Andrew GUDGELL, 0.18.9 tax, Daniel GUDGETT, 0.1.3 tax. ALLEGHENY COUNTY Volume 22--Page 652--1791--St. Clair Twp.--Daniel GUTSHALK, 0.2.0 TAX. LANCESTER COUNTY Volume 17--page 807--1782--Hempfield Twp.--Peter GODSHAL, 329 a., 2 h, 4 c, 37.15.9 tax, under "inmates" was Peter GODSHALL, 1,10,0 tax. Page 585--Hempfield Twp.--1779--Peter GODSHALL, 400 a, 4 h, 6 c, and Peter GODSHALL, Jr., 3 h, 2 c, page 392--1773--Hempfield Twp.--Peter GODSHALL, 200 a. 2 h, 3 c, 0.19.0. Page 243--Hempfield Twp.--1772--Peter GOTSHALL, 300 a, 4 h, 2 c, 0.19.0 tax. Page 117-1771--Hempfield Twp.--Peter GOODSHALL, 100 a, 2 h, 2 c, 0.10.0 tax. PHILADELPHIA COUNTY Volume 14--page 91--1769--Germantown--Frederick GODSHELL. Page 335--1774--Germantown--Philip GOODSHALL, Frederick, Frederick GODSHALK. Page 35, Volume 15--1779--Germantown--Philip GODSHALK, o.5.0 tax, Frederick GOTTSCHALK, 150 pounds valuation, 3.15.0 tax, Philip GUTSHALK, 200 pounds valuation, 5.0.0 tax. Volume 16--page 94--1782--Germantown--Philip GODSHALK, 15 pounds valuation, 0.2.3 tax. Page 554-Germantown 1783--Philip GODSHALT. Page 18 Volume 16--page 594-1783--Lower Salford Twp.--Gotshalk GOTSHALK, 160 a, 3 h, 5 c, 8 s. Page 159--1782--Lower Salford Twp.--Godshalk GODSHALK, 517 pounds valuation, 3.10.2 tax. Page 439--volume 15--1780--Lower Salford Twp.--Gotshalk GOTSHALK, 3,623 pounds valuation, 81.10.4 tax. Volum 14--page 69--1779--Lower Salford Twp.--Godshalk GODSHALK, 3.0.0 tax. Page 365--Lower Salford Twp.--1774-Godshalk GODSHALK, 150 a, 2 h, 4 c, 11.8.4 tax. (not on 1769 tax list here). Volum 16--page 700-1783--Towamansing Township--Catharine GODSHALK, 14 a, 1 h, Peter GODSHALK, 113 a, 3 h, 3 c, 6 s, Garret GODSHALK, grist mill, 110 a, 2 h, 3 c, 6 s, Garret GODSHALK, 160 a, 2 h, 2 c, 8 s, William GODSHALK, Garret GODSHALK. Page 266--1782--Towamensing Twp.--Gertrout GODSHALK, 467 pounds valuation, 3.3.9 tax, Catherine GODSHALK, 31 pounds valuation, 0.4.1 tax. Peter GODSHALK, 430 pounds valuation, 2.18.8 tax, Garret GODSHALK, 626 valuation, 4.5.5 tax, under "single men" was Garret GODSHALK, 1.10.0 tax. Page 40-- 1781--Towamensing Twp.-- Garret GODSHALK-- miller, 5.14.0 tax, Peter GODSHALK, farmer, 6.3.0 tax, Gartrout GODSHALK, 6.8.3 tax, Catharine GODSHALK, o.8.2 tax, under "single men" were Garret and Godshal GODSHALK, 4.15.0 tax each. Volume 15-- page 549--Towamencin Twp.--1780--Gertrount, Peter, Gerret and Catharine GODSHALK listed and among "single men" were Garret and Gottshalk GOTTSHALK. Volume 18-page 445--1774--Towamencin Twp.--Nicholas GOTSHALK, 1 h, 0.13.4 tax, William GOTSHALK, 160 a, 3 h, 4 c, 13.10.8 tax, Garret GOTSHALK, grist mill, 60 a, 2 h, 3 c, 15.10.8 tax, Catherine GOTSHALK, 14 a, 1 c, 2.14.8 tax, Peter GOTSHALK, 113 a, 2 h, 4 c, 10.4.4 tax, Garret GOTSHALK. Page 24--1769--Towamencin Twp.--Peter GODSHALK, Eve GOSHALK, 127 a, 2 h, 4 c, 11.9.4 tax, Harman page 19 GODSHALKS, 80 a, 2 h, 2 c, 0.9.0 tax, Garret GODSHALKS, grist mill, 60 a, 1 h, 2 c, 16.18.8 tax, William GODSHALKS, 160 a, 4 h, 6 c, 17.17.4 tax. Volume 14--page 612-1779Hatfield Twp.--Nicholas GOTSHALK. Volume 15--page 419--1780--Hatfield Twp.-- Nicholas GODSHALK, 350 pounds valuation, 9.2.0 tax (note-he does not appear on earlier, 1774, lists here). (note- he does not appear on later, 1782, lists here). CHESTER COUNTY Volume 12--page 684--1785--Upper Chichester Twp.--Jacob GUDSHALL, 0.0.10 tax. (note- he does not appear on earlier, 1781, lists here). YORK COUNTY Volume 21--page 452--1781--Germany Twp.--Christian GODSHALK, jobber, 1 c. 0.5.6 tax. (note- he does not appear on other tax years here). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Note from Linda- Whew!! That was a long one. Please make note of Andrew and Daniel in Fayette Co. on the 1786 tax. list. The Frederick's listed in Philadelphia Co., can't be our Frederick, since his Will was probated in 1748 in Philadelphia Co. Segment # 9 will begin with Census Records. Linda Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: THE GODSHALK'S (etc.) FAMILY IN AMERICA-SEGMENT #9 CENSUS RECORDS The best way to begin research on your direct line is by searching census ercords. The first Federal census in this country was taken in 1790. It was taken every ten years thereafter. Until the 1850 census, only names of households were given. Beginning in 1850, the names, ages, occupations and birthplaces of all members of the household. Census records are available to the public (for census years 1790 thru 1880), on microfilm at most large libraries, or can be rented thru the mail for $1.00, or you can have a census checker in Washington, D.C. copy your family data for $2.00. On the 1790 census the family page 20 appeared in the following places: PENNSYLVANIA In ALLEGHENY COUNTY: (In the portion of the county that was taken from Washington County)--Danile GUTTSHILK had in his household 1-0-1 (1 male over 16 years of age, no males under 16 years, 1 female). In BERKS COUNTY: in Bern Twp.--Leonard GODSHAL had 1-3-5 and in Brunswick and Manheim Twps.--Thomas GODSHALL had 3-1-3 and Fredk. GODSHALL had 3-0-3 and in Douglas Twp.--Michael GODSJALL had 1-3-10 and in Exter Twp.--Nicholas GODSHALL had 2-5-6 and in Greenwich Twp.--Frederick GODSHALL had 1-3-6 and in Ruscomb Twp.--Joseph GIDSHALL had 1-2-2. In BUCKS COUNTY: William GODSHALK had 3-2-4 and John GODSHALK had 2-4-1 and Samuel GODSHALK had 1-2-3 and Jacob GODSHALK had 2-2-3. In CHESTER COUNTY: In East Nottingham Twp.--David GATCHEL had 1=4=5 and Joseph GATCHEL had 3-2-5. In DAUPHIN COUNTY: Gudlip CUTSHAL had 1-1-3 and Micael CUTSHAL had 1-3-2. In DELAWARE COUNTY: In Lower Chichester Twp.--Jacob GOTCHIEL had 2-1-4. In FAYETTE COUNTY: In Luzerne Twp.--Daniel GUTCHEL had 1-2-3. In FRANKLIN COUNTY: Michael CUTSHALL had 2-4-2. In LANCASTER COUNTY- In Hempfield Township--Ludwig GODSHALL had 2-1-4 and Peter GODSHALL had 1-4-3. In MONTGOMERY COUNTY: Jacob GODSHALK had 1-0-0 and GODSHALK GODSHALK had 2-0-4 and another GODSHALK GODHSALK had 1-1-1 and another GODSHALK GODSHALK had 2-3-1 and Page 21 Garret GODSHALK, miller, had 3-0-2 and Garret GODSHALK had 2-1-3 and William GODSHALK had 1-2-4 and Peter GODSHALK had 2-0-2. In PHILADELPHIA COUNTY: In Germantown--Phillip GODSHALL had 1-0-2 and in Moyamecsing and Pasayunk Twps.--Nicholas GODSHALT had 1-1-2 and in Oxford Twp.--Frederick GODSHALL had 1-2-2 and in South Wark Town--Frederick GODSHAL, labourer, had 1-0-2 on the West side of Swanson Street and in the middle district of Philadelphia City, north 3rd street from Market to Race Street, west side was John GODSCHALL, painter, with 1-0-2 and north north state street from Market to Race east was Paul GODSHALK, carter, with 10-3. In YORK COUNTY: Earnest CUTSHAW had 1-2-7 and Casper CUTSHER had 1-2-2. VIRGINIA: The 1790 federal census for Virginia was accidently destroyed and has been fairly well re-constructed from earlier state and federal census and tax records. From the book "Early Virginia Tax Records 1782-88", In 1787 in Fayette Co was John CUSHAW. NEW YORK: In the North Ward of New York City was Sabastian CUTSHORT with 1-1-2. MARYLAND: In FREDERICK COUNTY: Peter CUTSELL had 1-3-6. In CECIL COUNTY: In East Nottingham 100 Nathan GATCHELL had 2-2-4 and Jacob GATCHELL had 3-0-3 and Samuel GATCHELL had 1-2-3 and Ann GATCHELL had 0-0-1 and 1 slave and Jeremiah GATCHELL in North Susquehanna 100 had 2-2-4. Page 22 In KENTUCKY On the second (1800) Kentucky Census: In WOODFORD COUNTY: Andrew GUDSHALL. In MONTGOMERY COUNTY: Andrew GUDGELL. In FRANKLIN COUNTY: Jacob GUDGEL. In JEFFERSON COUNTY: Thomas GODSIL. In FAYETTE COUNTY: Benoni GUSHOW. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Segment #10 will begin with Military Records. Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:11:02 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Dan Gudgel in 1790 PA census Linda, Interesting that we see that Daniel Gudgel, who we are having a hard time placing as tot he relationship to Andrew, seems to have had 4 kids by 1790. Since the female ages didn't seem to be separated out, we only know that he appears to have had two boys under the age of 16 by that date. Likely the other 2 girls (the third being his wife we assume) we also around 16 or younger. So does that help us figure out Daniel's age? Men didn't getn married quite as young as the women in those days. He might have done a stint as an apprentice somewhere, so he might have been in his early 20s when he got married or late teens? If kids come along every 2-2.5 yrs which is the natural spacing--providing none die along the way, then he would have been married for a minimum of 7 years and if the kids were teenages by the time the census was taken then figure at the max one boy could have been 15 yrs old. So add a rough age of Daniel at the time he married plus 15 yrs for a teenager and deduct that from 1790 and we get a range of Daniel's birth from 1755 to 1763 (if the kids are really young in 1790). So can anyone figure this out in a better way to get at Daniel's age? Dianne G-H Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:54:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Gudgel List-Just touching base. Hello to all you fine folks. I haven't been around a lot lately and just wanted you to know I think of you folks everyday. I guess like everyone else I am caught up in daily things that keeps me from my genealogy. Smitty Crossfield and I didn't get to make the trip to Henderson, KY after all. The lady I was to visit had a family situation of some sort that made it a bad time for her so we will try again later. So my quest for the lineage of Joel GUDGEL is on hold for now. We hope to try again this fall. One daughter has moved back to college and I still have two others here (plus the dog) and they will be moving in about 4-6 weeks (hopefully with the dog). Needless to say my washer and dryer have been doing double time and so have I Gary and I celebrated our 29th anniversary yesterday. Can't believe how the years are adding up. Let's hear from you folks. Just let us know you are still around. I'm sure things will pick up later in the fall. Miss hearing from you all. Linda From: Bob Gudgel Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hi Linda and the others Well, we're still here. Penny and I will have our 10 year anniversary this next week. I think we will go to Canada for a few days and Penny will try to go to some librarys while there and do a little Genealogy. She has some ancestors that had come to Canada. I have looked but I have not seen ONE Gudgel in Canada. Have any of you? Have a good week. Bob Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:32:03 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Gudgel List-Just touching base. Everything is fine here except Loyal Gudgel my brother goes into the Veterans hospital today for a possible heart valve replacement tomorrow. Was the first I'd heard of his problem until yesterday. Doyal Gudgel Son of Floyd Thomas wiley Thomas Jefferson Henry T. William Andrew Etc Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:20:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Good to hear from you guys! Bob- Happy 10th Anniversary a little early to you and Penny. A trip to Canada sounds wonderful about now. No, I have never heard of any GUDGEL's from Canada, but I've heard the saying....Wonders never cease where answers will appear. Doyal- Sorry to hear your brother, Loyal, will be going into the hospital for surgery tommorrow. Hope all goes well. Keep us posted. Are you two twins? Can't remember but I know the name Loyal GUDGEL from my research. Karla- With three little ones you have been a busy lady I'm sure. And in case I forget, Happy 18th Anniversary to you and your spouse. Getting the last one in school is certainly a big step...and a relief! I remember those days. By all means I hope you will share the biography you've written on Oscar GUDGEL. How in the world have you had time to do this with three children at home? Bless your heart. I am continuing to work on our local Marriage Bond Project that I have shared with you guys. We are through the "T"'s now! So the rest should go quickly now. If any of you have need of a lookup for a marriage bond or consent in Woodford Co., KY just give me a yell. It's been an amazing project when I think how many we have found and that they are in some kind of searchable order now. They were in bundles alphabetically but they had been misfiled a lot and it took forever before to find what you were looking for. Our local paper did a story on this project last week so your's truly made the front page in a picture with 3 others that were working on it that particular day. I have now had my few minutes of glory . Even if they hadn't done the story, I have really enjoyed working on this "labor of love". I never get tired of looking at old documents. Hope everyone has a great week. Will talk to you again soon. Linda Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:23:30 -0700 From: Nancy Miller To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Good to hear from you guys! Linda and all of you: Yes, I'm still around too, checking out all the posts. Some day I'll try and put all the information you've been sharing into my data base. Bill and I just celebrated our 44th anniversary on the 14th of August. Linda, I wondered what the ultimate goal of your marriage bond project is? Are you going to publish the results, microfilm the documents, or ? I have the feeling I've seen some other line I'm working on, in Woodford Co., but can't think which line it is now. That's what happens when you work on as many lines (at least 60) as I've gotten involved in. That old 65 year old brain just can't remember them all! Nancy Teel Miller > I am continuing to work on our local Marriage Bond Project that I have > shared with you guys. We are through the "T"'s now! So the rest should go > quickly now. If any of you have need of a lookup for a marriage bond or > consent in Woodford Co., KY just give me a yell. It's been an amazing > project when I think how many we have found and that they are in some kind > of searchable order now. They were in bundles alphabetically but they had > been misfiled a lot and it took forever before to find what you were looking > for. Our local paper did a story on this project last week so your's truly > made the front page in a picture with 3 others that were working on it that > particular day. I have now had my few minutes of glory . Even if they > hadn't done the story, I have really enjoyed working on this "labor of > love". I never get tired of looking at old documents. > > Hope everyone has a great week. Will talk to you again soon. Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:38:15 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: still kicking Well, guys, I too am still around but some days don't even get out of the house as I have about 48 hrs in which to get my 18 yr old off on his round-the-world trip. He leaves for his Japanese work camp near Nagano, Japan late Sept 2nd. In about a month he will go farther west to Hong Kong, Nepal and India. I suspect he will spend some time in Europe in early '99. He'll be home when his money runs out. But for now, there is still a ton of stuff to put together--mainly papers and duplicate traveler's check numbers, etc, addresses and for me--sewing special first aid kits, bags for covering his back pack and a special 3 part interlocking sleeping bag to accommodate all kinds of climates from tropical to Himalayian. Naturally all Loren's buddies are going off to college and everyone wants to say goodbye and have one last get together so he isn't giving his trip the attention it needs. Since everyone else is having anniversaries, I can add that Chuck and I one earlier in August--our 23rd I think. Whenever asked, Chuck always replies that it "seems like we have been married forever . . . !" Since I have not really had a summer what with Loren's graduation and preparations for the trip (least ways not enough hiking and the like, and now since it has frozen once already a few days ago thus ending our summer) I feel cheated. But after Loren leaves I will get a few days of a crisp cool fall when I join Chuck on an archeological survey 5 hrs north of Anchorage near Denali National Park. I'll check on the changes at the park since I wrote that chapter in my book (which might even get done this winter or so) and then it is out to beat the bushes to find a part time job. Chuck is getting on my case about all the money going out and the book seemingly not getting closer to getting printed, and he wants to retire, so it's my turn. Besides, we need more money for college for when Loren returns. After what the stock market has done to Loren's fund, I sure do need to get out and work. But what I really want to do is to take advantage of the super car rental deals that occur in the fall along the east coast. Rental agencies need the cars driven down to Florida for the winter tourist business and so you can do a one way drive for very reduced prices. Naturally I would want to start in Penn at all the archivies that we salivate over. But I'm probably dreaming because I can't work and vacation at the same time (can I?). Dianne G-H Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:50:22 -0500 From: kmahlberg Subject: Oscar Gudgel, biography This is a copy of the biography of Oscar Lewis Gudgel written by C.V.Mills and published in The Range Ledger [newspaper], Cheyenne Wells, Colorado in 1976. Oscar L. Gudgel was born in Cheyenne Wells in 1894 and died there in 1979. I hope you will find it interesting. Karla Mahlberg ----------------------------------------------- Town Herdsman's job kept Oscar Gudgel in early Cheyenne Wells (Editor's Note: This is the first of a two-part series on the Life and Times of Oscar L. Gudgel, pioneer Cheyenne Wells real estate man). By C.V.Mills As far as the eye could see, the Cheyenne County's rolling bossom lay swaddled in lush, coppery green buffalo grass. No fence rows broke the freedom of the plains back at the turn of the century and livestock had free-roaming access to clear, sweet water which a half century later was to become tinged by modern farming practices. Only a couple score years earlier, buffalo and Indians had roamed this vast expanse to the west of which sprawled the panoramic Front Range of the Rockies. These early prairie denizens, however, were being replaced in this new age by the vanguard of pioneer Western settlers. Almost daily, immigrant cars of the Union Pacific Railroad were unloading a new family of settlers from the East with their meager household belongings and livestock. It was at this time that the man who was to later become dean of Cheyenne County real estate brokers made his first move into the realm of business. Oscar L. Gudgel, born Sept. 14, 1894, was already doing what was then a prosperous, money-making chore. He was acting as town herdsman for the Cheyenne Wells populace. As such, it was his duty to round up and drive to surrounding pastures each morning, the milk cows of the town dwellers. He would do the same chore in reverse shortly before sundown each evening. At the time the young herdsman's flock numbered from 25 to 30 head. For his efforts, he was paid 75 cents a month per cow.. And, in those days, when a dollar was larger than the drive wheels on the Union Pacific's coal-burning locomotives, that represented a bundle of green. But things were to look up before they took a turn for the worse. As The "immigrants" arrived, young Oscar took on more livestock and would see to it their animals, cows, horses and even an occasional mule were properly pastured. It was a veritable bonanza for the youthful Gudgel who, with but four years' exception, was to make his native Cheyenne Wells his lifelong home. Not Much Work "It wasn't much work," Oscar recalled from his room in St. Joseph of the Plains Hospital last week" "The town was surrounded with grass and I didn't have to take the animals far. I had a good horse and I'd just take them out to the open range. There were no fences but still the animals wouldn't stray far, hardly ever more than six miles." As the immigrants poured in, it was only natural they'd have animals stray. "They'd ask me to find and bring in their strayed cattle and horses after they escaped their haphazard, temporary catch pens and corrals. One immigrant had two of his mules flee and offered me $2 for their return. I found them a mile away and returned them to the livery stable corrals.. This was big money!" Oscar attended Cheyenne Wells school until the end of his sophomore year when his formal education ended. The son of Mr. and Mrs. L.M.[Louis Milhouse] Gudgel who lived in town but farmed and ranched 2 1/2 miles northwest of Cheyenne Wells, Oscar was married to Dora Sherman, June 9, 1915 in their home town. He was 21 at the sophomore year when his formal education ended. Rancher Shortly after Oscar's education ended, a man named C.T. Frost of Missouri was looking for a ranch foreman. "He was looking for someone to live on the ranch and look after his cattle," Oscar recalls, adding, "It so happened he and my dad were good friends so I got the job and stayed on the ranch, which was six miles northeast of town, through the winter." With the advent of spring, "Frost sold the ranch, cattle and me," Oscar laughed, "to W.C. Schultz of Cheyenne Wells. 'I'll sell you the ranch and cattle on condition you hire Oscar. He ran the ranch all winter and brought all the cattle through," Gudgel remembers Frost telling the new buyer. At any rate, Oscar worked for Schultz until his marriage in 1915 when he and his bride moved onto Oscar's father's farm which he'd purchased five miles east of town. The newlyweds remained on the farm until 1918 when "I got ulcers so bad I had to go to Denver for surgery and when I returned, I joined my father in the real estate business ... I've been it ever since." Gudgel recalled it was not necessary to have a real estate license when he first entered the business but that he get his first license in 1930 and has been licensed ever since. Back to the Farm Oscar and Dora moved back to his father's farm in the spring of 1923 "but what crop we had was hailed out and we had nothing." In the meantime, the manual training teacher in Cheyenne Wells died and the school board asked Oscar if he'd teach. He did, for a total of seven years in two hitches. During this time he continued to help his dad in the real estate business. Comes the Depression Oscar had not yet reached middle age when the dust storms which were to plague the western plains for years struck in the 1930's. The newly broken sod which had produced corn as high as a man's head on dry land were unable to resist movement in the face of winds which accompanied the extended drought. Days turned to night as clouds's of choking dirt swirled across the Midwest and even out to sea before their density dissipated. Livestock perished as much from strangulation as from starvation and the choking land failed to yield crops sufficient to even sustain the anguished beasts. "Finally, it got so bad I had to get may parents out of it," Oscar remembered. "So, in 1935, we took them to the home of my sister, Mrs. Florence Harr in Denver but still tragedy struck. Only a few days after we reached Denver, father had a stroke and died in March 1935. Mother took ill and we took her to Savannah, MO., to specialists. While we were in Missouri, my sister's husband was killed when he was climbing a steel power pole. He slipped, fell into the lines and was electrocuted near Leadville. Then, just exactly three days less than a year after dad died, my mother died." Oscar and Dora returned to Cheyenne Wells but had to return to Denver in 1936 after Oscar contacted dust pneumonia. They remained in the Mile High City until 1940 when they returned home and bought the Clarence Noon property where they still make their home at 60 N, 6th St. (Cheyenne Wells was laid out differently at the turn of the century and livery stables, no garages, were common place. This, though, is another story which will be concluded in an upcoming edition of The Range Ledger. Real estate prices soared after the miserable Thirties and Cheyenne County once again became prosperous. Oscar Gudgel tells all about it in the concluding chapter. ********************************** PART II Gudgel wouldn't swap his native land (Editor's note: this is the second of a two-part series on Oscar Gudgel. retired Cheyenne Wells business man). By C.V. Mills Even the famous Indian wells near the Smoky Hill River some six miles north of town from which Cheyenne Wells derived its name were choking their way into oblivion. The eastern Colorado skies were a dreary, drab-rust brown more often than not and only too frequently were blacker than the rumbling bowels of the river Styx. Rail-poor livestock bawled and nickered their pathetic ways about a landscape almost totally barren of foliage. An occasional scraggly Russian thistle was a Godsend for these tormented creatures. Crops, except those under irrigation in the nation's river basins, were non-existent. People in the Midwest were on the verge of migration. The Dirty Thirties were responsible for the greatest exodus since the Biblical Israelites took it on the lam. Kansans, Oklahomans, Texans and Coloradans, those with sufficient pennies to do so, fled to points westward. Others through sheer guts and necessity stuck it out to reap the fruits of what actually developed into something of a Promised Land. But, tough as times were,there were items which caught the fancy of the destitute citizenry. Wheels, they were. Cars as they were alluded to in those hectically frenzied days. Penny poor and foolish, people would buy cars. It was at this time that Oscar L. Gudgel, real estate broker, got into the automobile business. Cars for Animals A western Kansas firm, Oscar said, had lent large sums of money on cars and, unfortunately, had to repossess hundreds of the. During this time, Gudgel was buying up land for as little as $2. per acre and considerable for $2.50. He then made a deal with the lending agency to swap land for cars and at one time took on 20 cars in a single deal. "You couldn't sell a car, there was no money," Oscar explained, "but you could always swap. I traded for about everything. I had horses, turkeys, cows, chickens, hogs. I had hogs until I was 'hog poor' but we managed to eat well. I rented the corrals at the Cheyenne County fair grounds and used adjoining pasture for what it was worth. 11-Cent Corn "I bought corn in Bird City, Kansas, for 11 cents a bushel and trucked it to Cheyenne Wells to feed my hogs... "Believe it, those cars helped us through the thirties. We had all the beef, pork, poultry, milk and eggs we could eat." The 82~year-old Gudgel said he'd usually get 15 or 20 cars at one time. The lending agency, he said, had as many as 300 repossessed cars on its lots at one time and simply didn't know what to do with them. Oscar admits now that "we came out real well financially." Things were to start looking up. "In 1939 we raised a little feed, the county was starting to come back. Then I bought much of this land back from the lending agency which was earlier stuck with the cars." He remembers he paid $8 per acre for one section and a half. Oscar went on to sell the half-section five times, the section four. Prices, he said, went up every day as the land came back with the approach of World War II. He smiles when he tells how land originally sold for as little as $2 per acre now brings the present day prices. Cheyenne Wells Born Sept.14, 1894, Oscar remembers the Indian Wells and recalls driving his town milk herds there for water as a youth. He remembers, also, that the Cheyenne Wells Main Street ran north and south, not east and west as it does today. A livery stable occupied the site where the the Conoco Service Station now stands. Old Main Street, Oscar said, is not Cheyenne Avenue. The livery stable, he remembers was 140 feet long and opened to the west. Largest Sale After the local town herdsman reached maturity, he became involved In many undertakings. Farming, ranching, school teaching and real estate. His largest land sale, as he recalls, involved 5,400 acres of pasture land on the borders of Cheyenne and Kit Carson Counties. It was known as the Johnstone Ranch and was sold to a Dodge city, KS man. The man from Boot Hill country lived on the ranch two or three years then had Oscar sell it again. This time a woman and her two sons bought the Johnstone Ranch and Oscar sold the ranch's previous owner another chunk of land -- the Cliff Paulson ranch -- northeast of Kit Carson. This, he remembers, involved some six or seven sections. "I sold some of this land as many as five times and literally scads of it four times," Oscar related while reminding that "Dad was quite an operator and we sold a lot of land to Missouri and Nebraska speculators. Then years later we sold the land for them. This gave us the inside track and helped a lot later when things got tough. Gudgel bought much land on his own and over the.years sold considerable real estate to a man whose name was to later become legend in Colorado and Kansas - John Baughman of the Baughman Real Estate Company, a firm which was to later be involved in oil, cattle, etc. Oscar has slowed his pace now and he only recently was released from St. Joseph's of the Plains Hospital where he was treated for ulcers, a condition for which he had surgery over 40 years ago in Denver. Still, at 5-11, 240 pounds, he shows no outward trace of his recent illness and was back at his home last week. Cheyenne Wells had been incorporated only four years when Oscar made his appearance on the Colorado High Plains and its population was less than 1,000 souls. The town was incorporated around May 14, 1890 and encompassed 520 acres. The congenial octogenarian has seen the 1,772 square miles which make up Cheyenne County at their best and worst. He's seen value of the land soar from $1.50 to $2.00 to present day prices. He's seen the acreage yield from zero to 40-plus bushels of wheat per acre. As a youngster, years before the Dust Bowl era, he saw dry land corn in Cheyenne County climb "higher than a man's head" and field of orange-red milo to stagger the imagination. Oscar and his wife of 60-odd years are the parents of four children, Omar S. of Salmon, Idaho; Elsie Griswold of Fort Morgan; De Gudgel of Basalt, Colorado., a federal engineer, and Betty Mahlberg of Cheyenne Wells. They have 10 grandchildren and four great grandchildren including twin boys. These folks will tell you their dad, grandfather and great grand-dad wouldn't despite his reputation as a trader, swap his native land, his Cheyenne County, for all the real estate in China. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:20:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Great to hear from these GUDGEL cousins also Diane- Happy Belated 23rd Anniversay to you and Chuck also! Seems the Fall is a popular time of year for GUDGEL's to marry. Hope Loren has a safe and happy trip abroad. What a great experience this should be. ************************************************************************ Daniela- You have to tell us about your new job. I think of you often. I did find something on the WOODFILL's that might interest you. A new entry on roots web: WOODFILL 1799-1898 Eng>MD>PA>NJ Francis BICKER bickerfr@umdnj.edu I thought I'd drop him a line and see who his WOODFILL's are. The list of names you gave me for checking on the WOODFILL and allied surnames in Woodford Co. marriage bonds/consents are all names I have seen. Right off I know there is a family file for ISHAM and WILSON at the library. There are lots of marriage bonds for certain surnames, can you be more specific with first names? ************************************************************************ Nancy-Haven't heard from you in a long while either. And Happy Belated 44th Anniversay to you and Bill! So how many of us have had anniversaries recently...5 or 6?....is this a definite pattern? You asked about the ultimate goal of our Marriage Bond Project...a database is being created as we progress through the files and it will be indexed by bride, groom, witness, etc. and whoever else may be mentioned on the document. Eventually we will put this in book form. We also will sell copies of the bonds and consents that are being placed in plastic sleeves and put in 3 inch binders alphabetically by groom surname. I'd say we are about a month away from having it completed. If you can imagine the size of this project, we calculate having about 30- 3 inch binders full-and we've had to buy new bookcases to house them. 6,000 documents will soon add up. The whole project was begun to allow the county clerk to store the originals away from public use and at the same time to help preserve them from further wear and tear. It's been interesting to see the different types of paper and ink used as the years went along. Some ink, as used in a quill, seemed to be heavy in spots and the acid in it has actually eaten through the paper. Some grades of paper held up better than others too. And they didn't always have sheets of paper like we now have. It seems the pieces of paper were torn from another piece of paper in a lot of earlier documents. Guess they used whatever they had at the time. Let me know if you have a name you want me to check on. ************************************************************************ Karla-thanks for sharing this bipgraphy on your grandfather, Oscar GUDGEL. Just printed it off and will take it to bed with me . Will make for some good reading. ************************************************************************ Well, that's all for now. Will try and get some more of the GODSHALK's etc. of America done soon. Think there are total of 30 pages so I'm about 2/3 of the way there! Linda Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: David Milton GUDGEL Mia- Great to hear from you! Nice to know you are still around. It seems strange that you are not getting any of the posts back that you are sending to the list. Mine always come back to me after I send them. Maybe you need to ask Bob. I don't recall seeing the posts on David Milton GUDGEL as I am sure I would have kept them. Maybe you could resend them after you check with Bob. I'd love to see them. And a happy Belated 22nd anniversary to you and Carl. How many of ys does this make now? The People to People trips sound wonderful. What an opportunity for you! And the children who make the trip also. Hope you can continue to go. Do you hear from Adele Coon HACKETT? It has been a while since we corresponded. TTYL, Linda Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GODSHALK (etc.) FAMILy TO AMERICA-SEGMENT #10 MILITARY RECORDS From: "Pennsylvania, War of the Revolution", volume 2--pg. 15--William GODSHALL and Garret GODSHALK were privates in the 5th Battalion, Philadelphia County Militia in 1781. Godshalk GODSHALK was also in their company. In another company of the same battalion was another Godshalk GODSHALK. Page 36--Listed among the "non-associators" of Lower Salford Twp. was Gotshalk GODSHALK. Listed among the "non-associators" of Towamensing Twp. were Gartrout GODSHALL and Garret GODSHALL. Nicholas GODSHALK was lkisted as a "non-associator" in Hatfield Twp (a note says that it is not really certain whether or not all these men were actually non-associators". Page 40-Jacob GOTSHALK was listed among them in Skippack Twp. Page 315--Gredericl GOLDSHALL was a corporal in Capt. Baldy's company of the 6th Battalion of Berks County Militia in 1780. Page 101-Joseph GATCHEL was a private in the East Nottingham company of Chester County Militia in 1778. Page 222-Jocab GODSHALK was listed as a "non-associator" in 1775 in Bedminster Twp. Bucks Co., as were John and William GODSHALK in New Britain Twp. at that time. From: "The Pennsylvania Archives", 6th series, Vol. 7, page 120--William Page 23 GODSHAL was a provate in the company of infantry from the 86th Regiment of Montgomery County, in the War of 1812. From: "Pennsylvania, War of the Revolution", Vol. 1, page 339--Michael GOTSCHALL was a private in the Lancaster County Militia destined for the camp in the Jerseys in September, 1776. Page 569--Jacob GODSHALK on Arch Street, between 2nd and 3rd streets, Philadelphia was in the Philadelphia County Militia in 1776. Page 698--Jacob GODSHOLK was commissioned 2nd Lt. in the 1st Regiment of Foot, Philadelphia City Militia, August 25, 1779. Page 738-- Phillip GODSHALK was a private in the 4th company of Philadelphia County Militia in 1779. Page 727--Godshalk GODSHALK, Peter GODSHALK, and Garret GODSHALK were privates in the 5th Battalion, 1st company of Philadelphia County Militia in 1780. Page 781--John GALLSHALK was a private in the 1st Regiment of Foot, Philadelphia County Militia in 1781. From: "Roster of Ohio Soldiers in the Civil War"--Vol. 2-- Daniel H. GOTTSHALL, private, age 21, Company F, 4th Regiment, was discharged on surgeon's certificate of disability; Charles A. GOTTSHALL, private, age 18, Company K, 4th Regiment; Henry T. GATCHELL, provate, age 18, Company C, 11th Regiment descharged on surgeon's certificate of disability; George M. SCUTCHALL, 1st Sgt., age 19, Company H, 15th Regiment, wounded at battles of Pickett's Mills, Georgia and Resaca, Georgia; Edward CUTSHAW, private, age 20, Company A, 17th Regiment, discharged on surgeon's certificate of disability; Page 24 Jacob S. GOTTCHALL, private, age 24, Company K, 20th Regiment; Jacob GATCHEL, corporal, age 22, discharged on surgeon's certificate of disability and John B. GATCHEL, private, age 19, wounded in battle of Gettysburg, discharged on surgeon's certificate of disability, both in company F, 55th Regiment; George H. GUTSHALK, provate, age 18, company K, 63rd Regiment; in the same regimanet with him was John W. GITCHEL,, private, age 16; John GUTSHALL, private, age 40, company I, 4oth regiment; Martin GOTSHALL, private, age 24, company C, 43rd Regiment; John GATCHELL, private, age 22, died January 9, 1863 at Danville, Kentucky, where he is buried, of disease, and David GATCHELL, private, age 21, both of company E, 51st Regiment; John GOTTSCHALK, private, age 37, company K, 28th Regiment, died October 5, 1861, at Cincinnati, Ohio, of disease, interred at Spring Grove Cemetery; Thomas GEDSHAW, private, age 22, company I, 3oth regiment, killed September 23, 1861, in the Battle of Laurel Creek, Virginia, buried at Staunton, VA; John GOTTSCHALK, corporal, age 19, company A, 33rd regiment; Adam GOTSCHALL, private, age 35, company K, 91st Regiment, died October 27, 1863, at his home in Ohio, interred in Washington Church Cemetery, in Jackson Co, Ohio; Oscar M. GOTTSCHALL, Adjutant, age 19, 93rd Regiment; Ferdinand GITCHELL, private, age 45, company A, 97th Regiemtn, discharged on surgeon's certificate of disability; David GOTTSHALL, private, age 18, company E, 104th regiment; William H. GODSHALL, private, age 19, company C, 105th Regiment, died December 2, 1862 in hospital at Munfordville, Kentucky, interred at Cave Hill Cemetery at Louisville; Gideon GUTCHALL, private, age 25, company G, 74th Regiment. From: "Soldiers of Blair Co., Pennsylvania"-- Page 25 Page 198--Samuel GOTTSHALL, private, company D, 19th Penn. Cavalry, born 1841, died 1902, buried in Greenwood Cemetery at Altoona; William H. GOTTSCHALL, private, company G, 39th Penn. Militia, born 1844, died 1913, buried in Rose Hill Cemetery at Altoona; George GUTSHALL, private, company G, 202nd Penna. Infantry, born 1840, died 1899, buried in Fairview Cemetery at Altoona; Richard CUTSHALL, private, company E, 104th Penn. Infantry, all in Civil War. Page 314--Jesse C. GUTSHALL, private, comapny G, 10th Regimennt WWI. Page 63--Jacob CUTSHALL, private in Capt. Morris' company of drafted militia, marched to the Canadian border in the War of 1812. From: "Revolutionary Soldiers Living in Indiana", page 79--March 8, 1854, Samuel CUTSHAW of Washington Co., Indiana stated that he formerly lived in Lancaster Co., Pennsylvania, at one time lived in Jackson Co., Indiana, and was the signer of an affadavit that he knew of a certain soldier's Revolutionary service. From: "Pennsylvania at Gettysburg". vol. 2, appendix--William GODSHALK was a private in Company K, 153rd Infantry; L. GOTTSCHALL was a private in company H, 151st regiment. ************************************************************************ Segment 11 will begin with miscellaneous notes on marriages, researchers, bible records, court records, etc. for various states. Linda Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700 From: "Doris Morgan" Subject: Letter Hi my name is Doris. My grandparents name were Harry and Fannie Gudgel from Athens Illinois. My Father's name was Charles B. Gudgel. My son is doing a family tree for school. Any help you or anyone could give me would greatly help me help him. My father died in June of 1985. He was married to Virginia Piper. Waiting for your reply. Thanks for any help you may have given me. Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:38:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL'S FROM HENDERSON, KENTUCKY As most of you know I have been focusing my research on the family of Joel GUDGEL, son of Jacob GUDGEL and Druscilla DRISKELL of Anderson Co., KY, and grandson of our old Andrew GUDGEL. Joel was born in 1800 in Franklin Co., KY (later part of Anderson Co.). He married (1) Eleanor BUTTS in 1829 Anderson Co., KY, dau. of Samuel and Nancy BUTTS. I believe he had one son, James, by Eleanor BUTTS. For a long time I thought it was only Joel and Eleanor and they just dropped out of sight. I had been told they both were believed to have died in an epidemic of some sort. In trying to find where Jacob was buried I tried searching in the areas where all of his children had gone because Drucilla had died and Jacob sold off all of his land in Anderson Co. and sort of disappeared too. Well, that's when I found Joel in Henderson Co., KY. He appeared in the 1830 census of Anderson Co., KY and the 1840 census of Henderson Co., KY- and I found that on January 26, 1837 he married in Henderson Co., KY to Elizabeth BROWN-(Marriage Bk. 1, pg. 62). So apparently wife #1 had died earlier. For geography purposes- Henderson is near Evansville, Indiana-across the river. And not that far from Gibson Co., IN! They had at least one son, Daniel GUDGEL-b. August 10, 1836, Henderson Co., KY- d. July 29, 1911 Henderson Co., KY. Buried Fernwood Cem. (That's right-child first-then married, if the dates are correct). Daniel is found at age 14 in the 1850 census living with the John DORRIS family in Henderson-later I find out that John DORRIS's wife was Elizabeth GUDGEL! So he is living with a relative-an older sister or an aunt maybe? Andthis leads me to believe that Joel had died by then. Daniel was listed later as a blacksmith and in 1858 he marr. Cornelia BIGGS, dau. of Edward BIGGS and Amanda COLLIER. I am now trying to piece together the family members from deaths recorded, census records, tombstone inscriptions, marriage records, etc. and this information is what I call "Work In Progress"- so it is subject to changes and additions: Known children of Daniel GUDGEL and Cornelia BIGGS: (all b. Henderson Co., KY) Orville D. GUDGELL-b. abt 1857, KY, d. 1911 Henderson Co., KY Lulu GUDGELL-b. 1869-1870, marr. John HINTON Claude D. GUDGELL-b. April 20, 1862, d. Jan. 10, 1927 Henderson Co., KY married Mattie E. POSEY April 10, 1887 Henderson Co., KY. Helen GUDGELL- b. abt 1866 Married Samuel BARRON Frank GUDGELL-b. March 13, 1871, d. Aug. 8, 1954 Henderson Co., KY Elenor GUDGELL- b. Feb. 26, 1877 Kate GUDGELL-b. Abt. 1861. Married James LOVE, Sept. 25, 1900 Henderson Co., KY This is only a sketch of this research but it is getting very interesting because brother and sister, Orville and Helen GUDGELL, had children who married! (They were first cousins). This is where it gets hairy! This is why I want to visit the lady in Henderson so badly-I think the box of pictures, letters, etc. will give me some answers to this puzzle. She is a direct descendant of both sides of the cousins that married. I think some of these families went on west later maybe into Illinois and further west so I thought I would list some of the death's I found in Henderson and maybe someone will recognize some allied names, etc. (Unless otherwise stated, all are buried in Fernwood Cemetery, Henderson Co., KY) Henderson Co., KY Deaths: Annie GUDGELL- Sept. 24, 1905-Aug. 23, 1980. Mother- Helen GUDGELL, Father- Samuel S. BARRON. Informant: James GUDGELL. Claude D. GUDGELL-April 20, 1862-Jan. 10, 1927. Mother, Cornelia BIGGS, Father, Daniel GUDGELL. Informant: Frank GUDGELL. Frank GUDGELL-Mar. 13, 1871-Augsut 8, 1954. Mother-Cornelia BIGGS, Father- Daniel GUDGELL. Informant: Mrs. John HINTON. James D. GUDGELL- March 28, 1962-June 27, 1976. Mother- Patsy GREEN, Father- James D. GUDGELL. James D. GUDGELL- Aug. 4, 1888-March 17, 1949. Mother- Zora LITTLEPAGE, Father-Orvil GUDGELL. Informant: Annie GUDGELL. William P. GUDGELL-Nov. 13, 1874-Jan. 14, 1957. Mother-Ametin BIGGS, Father-Don GUDGELL. Informant-Lula HINTON. William Edward GUDGELL-Nov., 1938-April 12, 1966. Mother-Annie BARRON, Father-James D. GUDGELL. Informant: Mother. Orvil D. GUDGEL-1857-July 10, 1911. Mother- Zora Littlepage, Father-Daniel GUDGELL. Informant: James GUDGELL. (Note: This may be an error because Zora LITTLEPAGE is listed as the spouse of Orvil GUDGELL above also-this is giving me fits! ) William T. BIGGS-Jan. 31, 1846-Mar. 2, 1914. Mother: Amanda COLLIER, Father-Ed BIGGS. Informant: Ira BIGGS. Bur. Pleasant Valley Cem., Henderson Co., KY Helen G. Barron-July 16, 1866-July 30, 1954. Mother-Cornelia BIGGS, Father- Daniel GUDGELL. Informant: Mrs. J.D. GUDGELL. Buried St. Louis Cem., Henderson Co.,KY. Samuel S. BARRON-June 10, 1852-July 14, 1925. Mother: DUESE (?), Father-Samuel BARRON-b.Jefferson Co. Informant: W.B. BARRON. Bur. St. Louis Cem., Henderson Co., KY Samuel BARRON-Mar. 24, 1879-Sept. 19, 1916. Mother-Sarah RUARK (KY), Father-Francis E. BARRON (b. Union Co., KY). Informant J.J. SCHMITT. Buried St. Louis Cem., Henderson Co., KY ************************************************************************ Hopefully I will get to Henderson before winter! Good night. Linda Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:41:37 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: GODSHALK (etc.) FAMILy TO AMERICA-SEGMENT #10 Has anyone checked the list of arrivals on immigrant ships arriving in NY or Philly for people who were named Godshalk? Do we have evidence that the people listed in this research are connected to Andrew Gudgel? When can we be assured there is any connection? These people with similar names can be found but is there any connection that we can make to Andrew Gudgel? Just wondering. Here is an excerpt from the letter I am replying to. Doyal Gudgel From: "Pennsylvania, War of the Revolution", Vol. 1, page 339--Michael GOTSCHALL was a private in the Lancaster County Militia destined for the camp in the Jerseys in September, 1776. Page 569--Jacob GODSHALK on Arch Street, between 2nd and 3rd streets, Philadelphia was in the Philadelphia County Militia in 1776. Page 698--Jacob GODSHOLK was commissioned 2nd Lt. in the 1st Regiment of Foot, Philadelphia City Militia, August 25, 1779. Page 738-- Phillip GODSHALK was a private in the 4th company of Philadelphia County Militia in 1779. Page 727--Godshalk GODSHALK, Peter GODSHALK, and Garret GODSHALK were privates in the 5th Battalion, 1st company of Philadelphia County Militia in 1780. Page 781--John GALLSHALK was a private in the 1st Regiment of Foot, Philadelphia County Militia in 1781. From: Bob Gudgel Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mia and gudgel list Is Mia not getting the mail list? I seem to remember having to disconnect someone because their mail kept bouncing. Maybe it was Mia. I will also look at the list. It also looks like I will have to chop the mail list archive into a couple or few smaller pieces because is is approaching 1 megabyte, which is great. Bob P.S. Great, meaning pretty neat! Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Security on line I have been reading the letters from Dave GUDGEL about the archives of the GUDGEL mail list and the use of data pertaining to living ancestors. This has been an issue with lots of areas recently with the increased data that is found in "cyberworld". I have mixed emotions about it but then when you hear the horror stories about someone who has had a bad experience because of it...then it makes you stop and think. Sometimes we tend to live in our own little world and think these things wouldn't happen to us, but who knows. It doesnt take but once for it to happen and maybe Bob's idea is the answer. I think I will vote for Bob to have a password available to access GEDCOM files and he can use his own discretion on deciding whether that person is a serious researcher, etc. That's my 2 cents for anyone who wants it. Linda Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GODSHALK's (etc.) FAMILY TO AMERICA data Doyal asked a good question- No, we don't know if any of this data will pertain to our particular lineage, but it was a source of data that I felt we needed to look at. There were lots more of this family (even with variant spellings) in the early days of Pennsylvania than we realized I think. And who knows, we may eventually find we have been looking for something that isn't there only to find out we were looking for the wrong person or place. So I have transcribed this booklet only to share with you guys. Maybe at some point it will be helpful..maybe not. Better to have it than not. I found it very interesting myself and would like to finish it. I think there are only 5 more pages. Linda From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:44:27 EDT Subject: Re: GODSHALK's (etc.) FAMILY TO AMERICA data I have found the information on GODSHALK's FAMILY TO AMERICA to be very interesting and look forward to the rest of the information. Hopefully, it will prove useful in the future. It always seems like when we find one piece of information, it opens up more avenues to explore. We just have to make that first connection. I appreciate all the work that has gone into obtaining this information and getting it on line for all of us to read. Dave Gudgel From: NancykDing@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:42:13 EDT Subject: GODSHALK's (etc.) FAMILY TO AMERICA data I agree with Dave & appreciate the time & effort it has taken to share this information Nancy from Iowa Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:29:45 -0800 From: Dianne To: Bob Gudgel Subject: Re: Mia and gudgel list If Mia has send information I am very glad as she has done so much in the past. But I sure haven't seen anything with her name on it on the "list." Where is it? Dianne Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:28:37 -0800 From: Dianne To: NancykDing@aol.com Subject: Re: GODSHALK's (etc.) FAMILY TO AMERICA data Yes, I agree that Linda has done ALOT of work culling out information. I wish we all could help her out and divide up some of the more important and promising book research. If each (or many) of us would take one small bit of the puzzle, we might find answers and surely we would find them quicker. I would like to know where all the Quaker and Mennonite records are for Bucks Co, PA for the 1720-60s. I think we may find some information there because we know Old Andrew was there in 1757 for sure and it's highly likely that was indeed his "oath of naturalization" (in 1749?) that Daniela(?) found for us. So church records would also help if they still exist. Dianne in Alaska Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:31:59 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Old Mennonite records Dear Dianne and all, I did a search on the OCLC WorldCat library database (a huge database used by libraries to search out where to request Interlibrary Loans) and found that there are 26 books on Mennonites in Bucks Co., PA. Some of the books looked like they may be too late for our purposes but a few looked hopeful. One entry was for a manuscript collection at the Bucks County Historical Society. I think we can get their address from Cyndi's List. Anyway it was 1.5 linear feet of material called Early Mennonite Papers and Correspondence, 1708-1901. I think if we write to the society someone might do a search for us on Andrew. Another item that looked promising was "Early German Records and Tombstone inscriptions Berks County, Bucks County, Lehigh County, Monroe County, Montgomery County, Northampton County : Personal records of Clergymen" published in 1938. This has been microfilmed by LDS. One book was called "A Brief History of the Old and New Mennonite Churches of Deep Run: Bedminster Township, Bucks County, Pa." This book is owned by Bethel College in Kansas. Love, Daniela Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:55:21 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Re: Online service At 09:10 AM 9/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >Daniela, Although I don't even know about this Ancestry on-line >service, I would be willing to pay part of the service to let >somone else do whatever research they wanted or that we needed >(if they were willing). SKIP > >Dianne G-H >Anchorage > Thanks, Dianne, but I am going to sign up (subscribe) the library where I work. There is an Ancestry package for libraries that includes a subscription to PerSI which is the index published by Allen County Pub. Lib. that indexes all genealogy periodicals. The package sounds like a very good deal and I think a lot of people will use it. Therefore the Gudgel Group doesn't have to subscribe. I can do any searches you want. Yes, I have a new job. It is really the same job at the AZ State Research Library but I have been transferred to ***** genealogy *****. I am having a wonderful time. One of my first assignments is to spend $5,000 on genealogy books. What fun! Then we are going to spend $10,000 on preservation. The genealogy library survived on gifts and donations for many, many years but now they have a little money. I am considering buying a book called Biographies of Alaska-Yukon Pioneers 1850-1950 in 3 vols. We have very little request for Alaska genealogies but I figure that lots of people went to Alaska to search for gold and some of them probably died there. Some of these biographies might provide the missing link to families in other states. I am just tallying up the use figures for the library. When people come in they sign a guest book and write down their area of research. It seems that Pennsylvania is the winner, then Virginia, then Arizona. That means that I should buy a lot of Pennsylvania books. I think that we should use the $10,000 for preservation to fill in some of the periodical sets we have. I am hoping to find some back issues of the periodicals for southwest Pennsylvania, i.e., Fayette Co., Washington Co. They consider binding periodical runs to be preservation. Well, you can't bind a set unless you have all the issues. We have some SW PA things but not complete runs. I have only been in the new job two weeks. When I get settled, I hope to do a lot of ILLs. Let me know what you want. Lots of love, Daniela Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:12:30 -0700 From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: ANCESTRY.COM SUBSCRIPTION Daniela- I don't subscribe to the Ancestry.Com data bases thing but I have a friend who does. She is a professional researcher and I'd be glad to give you her email address if you want to ask her about it. I have used the "free" searches on occasion but I don't subscribe as I don't feel I would use it enough to offset the cost. I bet you are just so excited about this job. WOW....can't imagine being paid to do what you like to do the most! How exciting! Linda From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:51:58 EDT Subject: Wally Gudgell? I ran across an article in the travel section of Tucson's Arizona Daily Star yesterday which talked about a fellow named Wally Gudgell. He is a real estate salesman that specializes in the sale of islands in the Straight of Juan de Fuca. His office is near West Sound on Orcas. The article states that he was born in Des Moines, Iowa, but has lived on Orcas since he was 9 years old. Anyone know this gentleman? How does he fit into the Gudgel family? I do not have his name in my files and don't remember anyone mentioning him. Just curious. Dave Gudgel Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:13:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Wally Gudgel I don't know about Wally Gudgel, but I have heard of him somewhere. I bet Kim Gudgel (on this list) has heard of him since Wally is into real estate. Kim? What do you know? Bob Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Misc. GUDGEL info. from Internet Search Hello from dry and windy-but trying to rain, Kentucky! Hope everyone has had a n enjoyable Labor Day. It's got to be a good day just because we get a day off from work, right? Did some late night net surfin' last night and found a few things to share with you guys: ************************************************************************ Tombstones in the Grays River Grange Cemetery, Wahkiakum Co., Washington: Esther E. GUDGELL 1911 Milton C. GUDGELL 1908-1985 Married 25 September 1965 Anyone know these folks? ************************************************************************ Livingston Co. Historical Library, Chillicothe, MO publication: Vol. 5, No. 1, 1991: GUDGELL Cemetery Does anyone have access to this publication? I wonder if this is actually the GUDGELL Cemetery that is really in Carroll Co., MO that is listed on the GenWeb as destroyed? ************************************************************************ John D. GUDGELL, WWI Honor Roll, American Legion Post 17 Buried Sunrise & Sunset Cemetery, Manhattan, Kansas. Anyone know who this is? ************************************************************************ Henry GUDGELL Boice-1894 Listed as in the Arizona and Southwestern Biographical File. Daniela-Do you have any way of checking this out? Any of you know any BOICE's? ************************************************************************ Recent Obit for Margaret B. GUDGEL: Daily News, Longview, WA Margaret Bertha GUDGEL, 88, of 113 Cimarron Drive in Kelso, died 6 July, 1998, at home. She was born June 12, 1910 in Hanover, Germany, to Charles and Martha (SEMMELOROTH) KNOTT. She moved to the local area from Puyallup in 1973. She worked for many years as a secretary at the Fors Hatchery in Puyallup. She was a member of Bethany Lutheran Church in Longview and volunteered for the American Red Cross and Meals on Wheels. She enjoyed playing the piano and bridge, gardening and spending time with her family. She married William GUDGEL in 1933. Her preceded her in death in 1971. Mrs. GUDGEL is survived by a son, Dennis GUDGEL of Duval, Washington; a dau., Linda Kickabush of Longview; a caregiver, Florence Damshen of Kelso, four grandchildren; and two great grandchildren. Graveside services at Woodbine Cemetery in Puyallup. Columbia Funeral Service in charge of arrangements. (Note-Anyone know who this WIlliam GUDGEL was? Or did you know Margaret?) ************************************************************************ HENDERSON & GUDGELL Family Genealogy- check it out at: Descendants of Enward HENDERSON http://www.parsonstech.com/genealogy/trees/jhenders/d101.htm#P511 Phoebe A. HENDERSON-b. 21 April 1859 Louisa, Iowa, d. 2 April 1934 Lawrence , Douglas Co., KS. Marr. Richard J. GUDGELL 10 Aug. 1876 Arcadia Twp, Morgan Co., IL. Richard J. GUDGELL b. 1848 in Texas, d. 18 April 1021 Fairfield, Jefferson Co., IA. Had the following children: Jackson GUDGELL Lycurgus GUDGELL Love GUDGELL Laura GUDGELL Robert GUDGELL Henry Clay GUDGELL Lila GUDGELL Susie GUDGELL Lots more info. on the HENDERSON family. Anyone know this family? ************************************************************************ Utah State Archives, Court Index, Territorial Criminal Cases: Series 6836: Case #101-GUDGELL, Elizabeth Hey, anyone want to do a little detective work on this one? I'd love to know the scoop on this. Maybe a little dirt here? ************************************************************************ Frank Herbert BRIGGS, Jr. & Olga Christine GUDGELL Frank b. Yates Center, KS 18 March 1931, marr. 10 Dec. 1952 in Kimberly, Twin Falls County, Idaho to Olga-b. 5 April 1932 in Blanchard, OK. Children: Barbara, Susan and Frank, III Apparently these folks are still living. This was on a web page for Denis (didn't get the last name but it might be GUDGELL). Check it out: http://www.kcnet.com/denis/briggs/briggs20.htm Anyone know this family? ************************************************************************ The GUDGELL Ranch- I believe this is different than what Dave GUDGELL shared with us. If not please correct me. Graham Co., KS Taken from the 1906 "People's Reville" Souvenier" Abtracts: The immense stock farm is known as GUDGELL Ranch. 10,000 acres, 900 registered Herefords. Was sold to Charles GUDGELL of the GUDGELL-SIMPSON Stock Co., who is the largest breeders of thoroughbred cattle in the world. This is a fascinating story about this Cattle company and how it came to be. This Charles GUDGELL is from the Bath Co., KY line of GUDGELL's and someday I want to put a story together about how it came to be. I have run across this so many times over the years and it actually began in Independence, MO and I have seen it referred to in Amarilla, Texas as the beginning of the cattle breeds in Texas. In 1898 the GUDGELL and Simpson cattle herds were named "Hereford"! check out this site at: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5320/gudgell.html Great pictures! *********************************************************************** Well, that's all for now. Got to go fix dinner! Later, Linda Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:23:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: WALLY GUDGEL I'm not sure if I have talked to Wally GUDGEL before but I know the name Orcas as an area that is connected to GUDGELL Properties that will show up on any search engine on the internet. It apparently is a rather large and successful operation from all of the entries on the internet. I'd love to know also where he fits in with the GUDGEL(L)'s. Linda From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:49:09 EDT Subject: (no subject) Linda, I don't know if this is of any interest or not, but I was going through my Aunt Pearl Gudgel Brokofsky's files recently and ran across some information on a James Robinson Gudgell. The information that she had in the file was as follows. "James owned large ranches in Colorado, owned the Pan Handle Ranch in Texas and owned the celebrated OX ranch in Montana. He was the first purchaser of Pole Angus cattle for his section of the country. He imported one of the first herds of Hereford cattle. The firm that he belonged to is now Gudgell-Simpson, one of the most recognized in cattle breeding." In looking through other information I had on Gudgell-Simpson, I noted that the person always mentioned was Charles Gudgell. In Aunt Pearls files she didn't say much about Charles connection to the cattle business. Charles Gudgell and James Robinson Gudgell were brothers, so they must have both been involved in the cattle business. She gave all the credit for bringing in Angus and Herefords to James instead of Charles, but everything else I have seems to give the credit to Charles. Charles was born on February 10, 1847 in Bath Co., KY and died on September 30, 1916 in Pasadena, CA. Aunt Pearls note on Charles is as follows: "The 1880 Federal Census of Prairie Township, Jackson Co., Missouri shows the household of Charles Gudgell, age 33, and 3 non related people in the household: John Wank, age 30, born in Alabama; Cinthia Wank, age 21, born in Illinois; and Frank, age 1, born in Missouri. This may have been someone connected with the cattle breeding operations. The 1880 Federal Census for Pleasant Hill, Cass Co., Missouri shows: Charles as head of household; Wife Laura B., age 29, born in Kentucky; daughter Lula, age 9, born in Missouri; and a son Frank, age 6, born in Missouri." That is all she said about Charles and the cattle business. An Article that I have from the Independence Examiner, April 22, 1963 indicates that both Charles and James R. Gudgell were heavily involved in the operation, and that Thomas A. Simpson had taken over as sort of a guardian to the Gudgell brothers when their father died. Their father, Joseph, died in 1864 when Charles would have been about 17 and James R. about 15. Dave Gudgel Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:46:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: CHARLES GUDGELL Dave: You have told the story pretty well on Charles GUDGELL of the GUDGELL-SIMPSON Cattle breeds but I will add a few things. Soemwhere I have a story that tells about Charles' father dying and this Mr. T.A. Simpson sort of took Charles "under his wing" as they say, and he helped him get his start by becoming a partner with him in the cattle breeding business. Can't find the article at the moment but will share it when I find it. >From the 1900 Census of Jackson Co., Blue Twp., MO we find: GUDGELL, Charles b. Feb. 1847 KY age 53 residing 700 S. Main St., Independence Laura Bell, wife b. May 1851 age 49 KY Frank O., son b. Sept. 1873 age 26 MO Charles D., son b. Aug. 1888 age 11 MO 1 boarder 3 servants The 1880 census shows Charles (age 33) living in Prairie Twp., Jackson Co., MO. Living with him were John WANK age 30, Cinthia WANK age 21), and Frank WANK age 1. They are listed as N.R. (not related) and I imagine that John Wank may have worked for him. John was b. in AL, Cinthia b. IL, and Frank in MO. (Personal note- forgive me but I just find it amusing that someone would name their child Frank WANK). Oh my...now lets get back to work . I also found that Charles may have been counted twice in that census year because I have another entry in the 1880 Census for Pleasant Hill, Cass Co., MO: GUDGELL, Charles age 33, head, b. KY Laura B. age 29, wife. b. KY Lula B. age 9, dau. b. MO Frank O. age 6, son, b. MO Other notes: Charles GUDGELL b. Feb. 10, 1847 Sharpsburg, Bath Co., KY, d. Padasena, CA. Dept. 30, 1916, bur. Mt. Washington Cem., Jackson Co., MO. Son of Joseph GUDGELL and Louisa Jane GROVES. Laura BELL b. May, 1851 KY I will add more to this when I find it. Linda Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 21:47:55 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Some early Gudgel records Hi, I found this reference in a book. Some of you may already have come across this but here it is anyway. Bucks County Sheriffs' Deeds 1749-1776 compiled by Terry A. McNealy #70. 2ac. of John Bartley in Richland Twp. sold to Dennis Pursel by deed dated Dec. 17, 1761; suit of Andrew Gottchell; NR [I will have to go back and see what NR means. It might mean Not Recorded because the entries have DB, which I think means Deed Book, with a number and a page and the rest have NR with nothing after it.] #178. ca. 30 ac. of Henry Gotshalk in Plumstead Twp. sold to Robert Gibson by deed dated Mar. 14, 1775; suit of Thomas Thomas; rec. DB 18, p. 28 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:18:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Early GUDGEL records-Bucks Co., PA Daniela- Way to go Daniela! Wish we could find more of these from that area. I think our answers to a lot of questions are going to prove to be in Bucks Co., PA. There is so little in Fayette Co. Thanks for contributing. Linda- >From the dry state of KY. We sure need a rain here. From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:29:30 EDT Subject: Phillip Gudgel Okay folks. I am back trying to determine who the father of my great grandfather Phillip Gudgel was. As I have mentioned before, Phillip was born to Sarah Ann about three years after Henry Thomas GUDGEL died. Since Henry could not have been Phillip's father, I am trying to determine who was. I have been digging through piles of files and ran across copies of a couple of letters from Walter HARRIS to Doyal. Walter was a descendant of Henry Thomas GUDGEL and Sarah Ann JOHNSON (Henry, Andrew, Lottie, Walter). In one of the letters dated September 19, 1975, he talks about Grandmother GUDGEL as having white hair, gray eyes, and being 69 when she died. I am assuming that he is referring to Sarah Ann JOHNSON because of the age. Sarah was 69 when she died. This may not be correct however, because Sarah was actually his great grandmother. In the other letter dated August 14, 1975 he makes the following comments: "........In Grandmothers applying for a pension Corydon CLARK a witness was my Grandmother HARRIS Father. Uncle Phillip belonged to him............He has been dead for 34 years. his boy Amos died 2 years ago. he lived in Nebraska...........My Greatgrandfather Clark had 14 Kids. They say Uncle Tom your GreatGrandfather left home when Uncle Phillip was born........." Soooooo, I don't know for sure where this gets me. Walter referred to both Tom and Phillip GUDGEL as uncles although they were actually great uncles and to Sarah (I think) as grandmother even though she was his great grandmother. Corydon CLARK and Sarah Ann GUDGEL were the same generation, and therefore probably the close to the same age. I dug out Sarah's pension applications and Corydon CLARK did sign her first application dated November 15, 1862 as a witness. I have NO information on Corydon CLARK other than what was in this letter, which sure makes it sound as though Corydon CLARK was Phillip's father. Has anyone looked into this? I have heard rumors that Sarah's father-in-law William GUDGEL was Phillips father, but I have found ablolutely no basis for that and although it is possible, I don't believe it is true. Anyway, I want to start looking into this but wondered if anyone else had any more information. Thanks Dave Gudgel Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: PHILLIP GUDGELL and CORYDON CLARK Dave- Hmmm....this is the kind of genealogy that drives you crazy . Unfortunately, I have no information on Corydon CLARK, but I'd love to know the answers when you find out. As I said before, I upset someone in this line some time ago when I questioned the dates of Henry's death and Phillip's birth. I was told it was a typographical error and it was corrected to be the same year. In all honesty, these things did happen and many times family members tried to conceal the truth....but like it or not....it is history and we can't change that. Right? Makes for some interesting research. Linda Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:23:46 -0800 From: Dianne To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Phillip Gudgel Dear Dave and all, Just got back from a few days vacation to the interior of Alaska where all the vegetation is deep red and yellow-indicating, on time, that winter is coming. This will be the sum total of my summer and fall vacation as I did not get out of town at all due to getting Loren graduated, visitors coming, and mostly getting Loren prepared for his world trip, which is now on. So . . . I am glad to hear, Dave, that you are looking into this situation of Phil's father so thoroughly. I love to see that kind of careful research. Sorry, I can not add anything, but please keep us informed. I still think we should all keep our eyes out for more information on Sarah Johnson and perhaps some of her kin who even today might shed some light on things. Certainly this Mr Clark business looks promising. Dianne G-H Anchorage Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:31:05 -0800 From: Dianne To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Gudgels and cattle I have a newspaper article or two on the above subject. It talks about the European education and travel (briefly) of Gudgel and how he is said to be responsible for introducing the Hereford cattle to the US. Shall I reprint the articles here? Dianne G-H Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:34:20 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Milton G in WA in early 1900s I believe I read somewhere on our web chats months ago about an early of shoot of the Gudgel line going to the midwest, perhaps to Minnesota or Michigan and then maybe to Montana and eventually to Washington state. This Milton must be part of that family. I think Doyal knows many of the Wash state lines if none of you have Milton, born 1908 Wash in your database files. Dianne G-H Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:43:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Just a similarity (forward) I just can't pass up these forwards from Penny: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:16:48 -0700 From: Clifford Gatchell To: SURNAMES-CANADA-M@rootsweb.com Subject: GATCHELL / GETCHELL Frederick; IRL>CAN; 1832-1871 Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.surnames.canada,soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland,soc.genealogy.surnames.global GATCHELL / GETCHELL Frederick; IRL>CAN; 1832-1871 I am looking for records relating to Frederick Gatchell (listed in Ontario Genealogical Society records as Francis Getchell). He left Ireland about 1850, married Rachel Stephens, daughter of Moses Stephens, in Halifax, Nova Scotia. They moved to Fenelon Falls, Ontario, and had 6 children. They are listed in the 1871 census as Baptists. I have very little information, except that Frederick was from Ireland. The family story is that he was from County Cork, and his father was a judge. His mother died, his father remarried and Frederick left for Canada. Does anyone have any information about the Gatchells or Getchells in Ireland? I have some names from Quaker records but Frederick is not listed there. Is there a list of judges of that time? Is there a way to access Baptist Church records? gatch@interlog.com (Clifford Gatchell) From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:32:15 EDT Subject: Re: Gudgel's and Cattle Diane, I have some articles also. They may be the same ones. The ones I have are from the "Jackson County Historical Society Journal", fall 1969, the "Examiner", Independence, Missouri dated April 22, 1963 and the "Encyclopedia of the History of Missouri, Vol III". If these are the same as what you have, don't put them on for me. If you have others, I would be interested in seeing them. My interest is primarily because we always ran Herefords on our ranch and my father took great pride in the quality of the stock and was always trying to improve it. I suspect that these articles came from you at one time, but am not sure. I received them from my brother, who, I think, received them from his daughter Angela GUDGEL MICKLER. I know there was some information in the package that you had sent her, and these may have been included. Dave From: "Mia K. Fleegel" Organization: Syracuse University Library Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:28:02 EDT Subject: POEM - The first day of census I received the following poem through my ADKINS listserv and thought our group might enjoy it - I did. Mia __________________________________________________________ It was the first day of census, and all through the land each pollster was ready ... a black book in hand. He mounted his horse for a long dusty ride, his book and some quills were tucked close by his side. A long winding ride down a road barely there, toward the smell of fresh bread wafting, up through the air. The woman was tired, with lines on her face and wisps of brown hair she tucked back into place. She gave him some water ... as they sat at the table and she answered his questions ... the best she was able. He asked her of children. Yes, she had quite a few -- the oldest was twenty, the youngest not two. She held up a toddler with cheeks round and red; his sister, she whispered, was napping in bed. She noted each person who lived there with pride, and she felt the faint stirrings of the wee one inside. He noted the sex, the color, the age... the marks from the quill soon filled up the page. At the number of children, she nodded her head and saw her lips quiver for the three that were dead. The places of birth she "never forgot" was it Kansas? or Utah? or Oregon ... or not? They came from Scotland, of that she was clear, but she wasn't quite sure just how long they'd been here. They spoke of employment, of schooling and such, they could read some ... and write some ... though really not much. When the questions were answered, his job there was done so he mounted his horse and he rode toward the sun. We can almost imagine his voice loud and clear, "May God bless you all for another ten years." Now picture a time warp ... its' now you and me as we search for the people on our family tree. We squint at the census and scroll down so slow as we search for that entry from long, long ago. Could they only imagine on that long ago day that the entries they made would effect us this way? If they knew would they wonder at the yearning we feel and the searching that makes them so increasingly real. We can hear if we listen the words they impart through their blood in our veins and their voice in our heart. --- Author unknown. From: "Lane Lance" Subject: Getchell vs. Gudgel/Gattschalk lines Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:50:36 -0400 Hi everyone, In response to Cliff's e-mail...I have a Gudgel line and a Getchell line. My family tradition says that the Getchell's were from England and the Gudgels were German or Bohemian. My research on the Getchell line goes back to 1580 in Somerset, England and is very well documented. I think the mutation of the Gattschalk name is the most likely explanation of the Gudgel name. Many names were Anglicized for the sake of convenience and national identity. In a way, it is too bad that Andrew had to pick a name so close to the English Getchell. It is going to make for some difficult untangling. Also as soon as I have an hour or so to spend on the computer, I have a few dozen names to add to the Gudgel collection. I was also able to spend a day at the genealogy library in SLC in my summer wanderings and spent several hours looking over cemetary records in and around Stillwater, Okla. These will all be descendants of William Gudgel and Lucinda Thurman through their son Jacob. Also, if you do not have it and want it, I have Lucinda's line back to 1530 in England. I will probably not get to it for a month or so. I am in the process of getting my daughter ready to go to Portugal and we are working with an engineer to fix cracks in our homes' foundation. I still manage to read all the e-mail each day, though. Keep up the good work. Debbie Lance Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:39:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Lucinda Thurman back to England Debbie, You bet I'm interested in Lucinda Thurman's line to England to the 1500's. Whenever you get around tuit. Bob From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:17:28 EDT Subject: Lucy Thurman to England Debbie, I too am interested in Lucinda Thurman's line back to England to the 1500's. I would love to see it when you have time. Dave Gudgel From: "Lane Lance" Subject: Lucinda Thurman's line Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:07:08 -0400 Everyone is upstairs watching TV and so I will avail myself of the opportunity to give the straight line on Lucinda. I am sorry I did not realize that you did not have all of the information on her family. I assumed that you were all way ahead of me in this research. There is actually a Thurman site on the Internet where I first received most of this information. You will probably get the full line more quickly from them than from me. The keepers of the list are Loren and Linda Thurman at (thurman@megabits.net) Thurmans Quest is at http://www.megabits.net/~lthurman Thurman's Quest Newsletter is at http://www.megabits.net/~lthuran/tqn.html Here is the straight line on Lucinda/Lucy Thurman. She was born on 22 December 1806 in Ohio, married in 1826 to William Gudgel in Owensville, Gibson, Indiana, and died 9 May 1887 in Gibson, Indiana. Lucinda was the 5th of 8 children born to Henry Thurman - born abt 1772 in Pittsylvania, VA. He died in 1850 in Fulton, Illinios. He married on 15 January 1795 in Bedford, Va to; Sarah Terrell - born 15 Oct 1775 in Bedford, Va and died 18 Aug 1855 in Fulton, Illinios. Henry Thurman was the 7th of 12 children born to: Nathan Thurman - born 17 January 1742/43 in Prince Edward, Va and died 1825 in Chillicote, Ross, Ohio. He married on 15 August 1760 in Prince Edward, Va. To; Rebecca Jennings - born abt 1743 in Louisa, Va and died 1810 in Pittsylvania, Va. Nathan Thurman was the 2nd of 4 known children born to: Richard T. Thurman - he was born in 1710 in New Kent, Va. and died (date unknown) in Prince Edward, Va. He married in about 1740 in Prince Edward, Va to: Sarah Farmer - who was born abt. 1720 in Prince Edward, Va. and also died (date unknown) in Prince Edward, Va. Richard T. Thurman was the 5th of 5 children born to: Richard Thurman - b. 1680 in New Kent, Hanover, Va. He died in 1710 also in New Kent, Hanover, Va. He married in abt 1700 in New Kent, Hanover, Va. to: Mary Brooks - born in abt. 1680 in New Kent, Hanover, Va. and died about 1715 in New Kent, Hanover, Va. Richard Thurman was the only known child of : Edward Thurman - born abt 1660 in Accomack, Va. He died abt. 1680 in New Kent, Hanover, Va. the same year his son Richard was born. It is assumed that he married about 1679 in Accomack or New Kent, Va. His wife's name is Unknown Edward and his brother John are the only known children of : John Thurman - born before 1638 in James City, Va and was married before 1658 in Accomack, Va.. death place and date are unknown. His wife's name is Unknown - but it is thought that she was born about 1640 in James City, Va. John Thurman was one of 3 known children born to : John Thurmer - who was born in 1605 in England. He died in James City, Va. He married bef. 1638 in England or James City, Va. to : Anne Morecroft - born 1605 in England. She also died in James City, Va. John Thurmer is the only known child of : Richard Thurmer - born about 1550 in England That's it (so far)! Loren is very excited to hear from any of the Thurman descendants and will give you anything you need. Another very good source for Thurman information can be found on Kindred Konnections. I would offer to send it to you, but I am in the process of reviewing all of my 10,000 entries. I tried adding my husbands family information and it messed up so many of my records that I am having to go through each and every record to check for errors. Hope you have fun with all of this new information. Dianne, I will try to squeeze in some time soon to do the Oklahoma cemetery records and sources. Have a wonderful weekend. Debbie Lance Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:28:13 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Hoch Family Hello Andrew's descendants, I received a couple of emails from Jim Hoch. Here is one and I will forward another. My response is at the top of this first one. Love, Daniela >Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:23:44 -0700 >To: RealT4uBWIHoch@webtv.net (James Hoch) >From: Daniela Moneta >Subject: Re: Fwd: Hoch Family > >Dear Jim, >What a thrill!!! I have had no luck researching Barbary HOCH. I believe she is my ancestor and married Andrew GUDGEL (Gottshall/Godshall) in the late 1750s in Bucks Co., or Philadelphia, or maybe even Chester Co., PA. Anyway, there seem to be records of Andrew in Bucks Co. and they are believed to have had children born in Philadelphia or Chester Co. We think they had more than the three daughters I have listed here. Andrew had a wife before Barbary and one after her. He is believed to have had 14 children. The family moved to Kentucky in the late 1700s. I think I have some more information in my files on the early HOCH brothers. I will send it to you. > >Descendants of Andrew GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL > > 1 Andrew GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL b: Abt 1730 >.. +Barbary HOCH b: Abt 1730 >........ 2 Susanna GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL b: April 23, 1759 in Philadelphia, PA (?) d: in Madison, IN >............ +Gabriel WOODFILL b: January 29, 1758 in Philadelphia, PA d: March 07, 1833 in Madison, Jefferson Co., IN m: October 24, 1777 in Washington Co., PA >........ 2 Elizabeth GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL b: April 23, 1763 d: August 06, 1843 in Madison, IN >............ +Daniel WOODFILL b: January 29, 1758 d: December 02, 1825 in Jefferson Co., IN >........ 2 Catharine GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL b: March 01, 1760 in Chester Co., PA (?) d: June 07, 1828 in Washington, Co., PA >............ +Joseph WOODFILL b: September 17, 1754 in Wales or England d: in Washington Co., PA m: October 20, 1777 in Luzerene Township, Fayette Co., PA > >I am going to forward your information to some other researchers who are researching Andrew Gudgel. Please keep us informed on your break-through news. You have just given us a few more locations in which to search! > >Sincerely, >Daniela > > >At 11:56 PM 9/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Some more for you. >> >>Jim Hoch >>Harrisburg, PA >>Dear Mr. Hoch, >> >>The info I have on the Hoch fmaily came from a book titled, 'History Of >>Washington Co. Pa.," Volume II. I have not done any more research on this >>line. My g-grandfather Geo. W. Hoch, II, was born in Carlisle, Pa., the son of >>Geo. W. Hoch who was born in Lebanon, Pa., a son of Christian Hoch, who was 3 >>generation removed from 4 Hoch brothers who came from Germany in early 1700's. >>I have no sibling names to go w/ any of these Hoch men. I will keep your >>letter. Should I get any info, I will be glad to share it w/ you. >> >>Respectfully, >> >>Richard A. Engel >>7124 Copperleaf Dr. >>Las Vegas, NV 89128 > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:31:55 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: Re: Charles V. Malone Reply Here is the first email Jim Hoch sent. This information is a little too late for us but I wondered about some of the related surnames. Love, Daniela >From: RealT4uBWIHoch@webtv.net (James Hoch) >Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:41:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: dmoneta@home.com >Cc: MDHochWolf@AOL.com, mwilson@injersey.com >Subject: Fwd: Re: Charles V. Malone Reply > >Daniela: Marsha Wilson and I have made some breakthroughs in Central >PA. with the Hoch line. She mentioned your name and it moved me to >review some of my old e-mails. I found some information in my file that >might relate to your Barbary Hoch in Washington County. > >Enjoy, > >Jim Hoch >Harrisburg, PA > >Received: from mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net > [207.79.35.91]) by postoffice-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.5/po.gso.24Feb98) > with ESMTP id SAA14648; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:50:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: YinzGuyz@aol.com >Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:50:44 EDT >To: RealT4uBWIHoch@webtv.net >Subject: Re: Charles V. Malone Reply > >Dear Mr. Hoch: > >A small world it becomes. I know of Kate Hoch Malone and the names of her >children. While living in PA (around 1989) I spoke to Ina Mae Hoch, daughter >of Geo. Hoch, III. She gave me the names and addresses of Hochs & other >descendents living in the southwest. I know I have them scribbled on a paper >somewhere. I never throw anything away, it's here somewhere. Ina Mae Hoch as >far as I know is still living (she was born in 1907). She is one of the oldest >grandchild of Geo. Hoch II. Ina Mae was a school teacher & even in 1989 her >mind was as clear as a bell. I'm going to look for that paper & write to these >relatives. I copied some of the info from books regarding Geo. Hoch II's >military duty. While in PA, I visited Gettysburg, what a nice place. >Unfortunately, I did not locate the monument for the 18th PA Cavalry. I have >photos of my great-grandfather & his wife at that monument. They atteneded to >50th reunion of the Civil War about 1912. > >Here is some info on my line if you want it: > >George W. Hoch, II, b. 9-2-1844, d. 5-8-1921 (Burried in Oak Spring Cemetary, >Canonsburg, PA) >his wife; Mary Jane Leech, b, 11-26-1852, d. 3-2-1923 (buried in same) Mary >Jane is the eldest child of of Wilmer Washington Leech & Sarah Berry. >issue: >(1) Sara Alicia Hoch, b. 7-14-1873, d. 2-4-1925 (never married, died while >having tonsils removed). (2) Kate Hoch (married Rbt. Malone), b. 8-20-1874, d. >date not found. (3) Elsie Jane Hoch (married Joe Weaver) b. 11-16-1876, d. >date not found (4) Nellie Mae Hoch (married Jim McCalla), b. 3-27-1878, d. >5-7-1966 (5) Theeta Eliz. Hoch (married John Moehler), b. 9-1-1879, d. >11-3-1958. (6) Geo. W. Hoch III, (married Mary Crouch of WVA), b. 5-10-1881, >d. 1-22-1968. (7) Betty Leona Hoch (never married). (8) Hester Hoch (married >Bill Graham, moved to Detroit, Michigan), b. 12-17-1884, d. date not known. >(9) Mary Leech Hoch (my grandmother, married Foster Wallace), b. 8-12-1887, d. >12-5-1931. (10) Wm. Henry Hoch (married Azaline Ewers, moved to Oklahoma >City), b. 4-16-1889, d. date unknown. (11) Oliver Hoch (never married), b. >9-28-1891, d. 10-8-1965. (12) Orion Hoch (married Ann Murphy), b. 3-13-1893, >d. date unkown (Orion served in WWI & was a policeman in Canonsburg PA). > >I have all the children of the above named people & their dates of birth. Too >many to type in e-mail. I scowered the local newspapers (in Canonsburg) going >years back & found many intersting articles on all of them. The family lost >contact w/ Wm. Henry Hoch, who moved to OK City, but our family did receive a >wedding annniversary for them in the early 1970's. They both were still >living! I have a copy of it here somewhere. What a mound of paper I have! > >On another note: Geo. W. Hoch, II served in Co. E of the 18th PA Cavalry from >1862 thru 1865. I have a photo of him in uniform seated in a chair. He had jet >black hair & blue eyes, like my grandmother, Mary Hoch Wallace. Geo. Hoch, II >was a wagon maker in Canonsburg. My mother said she remembered him when she >was a little child. She was only 2yrs old & was afraid of him. She could >remember going over to his house & seeing him with his foot proped up (he had >gout). > >The Hochs seam like a people who never let the dust settle under their feet. > >Geo. Hoch III was gored by a bull in Wheeling, WVA fair in 1903, had his >stomach pulled out. Doctors fixed him up, didn't think he whould live, but he >did (87yrs old). Tough old Germans, huh? > >Let me look for that paper w/ the addresses on it, so I can write to them. > >Respectfully, > >Richard A. Engel >7124 Copperleaf Dr >Las Vegas, NV 89128 > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:34:08 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: RE: HOCH Here is a little background on my HOCH research. Sincerely, Daniela >From: Bob Wismer >To: "'Daniela Moneta'" >Subject: RE: HOCH >Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:07:59 -0700 > >Daniela, > >Yes, my Hoch/High ancestors were Mennonites, but I'm sorry to tell you that I don't recognize the names Barbara Hoch or Andrew Gottshall/Gudgel. > >My grandmother was a High and was raised Mennonite, as were her progenitors as far back as I have them, which really isn't very far. I have her line back to John H. High (b. 14 Jun 1819 PA, d. 8 Feb 1909 Bucks Co., PA, buried Deep Run Mennonite Church, Bedminster Twp, Bucks Co., PA). > >I also have an Annah Hoch (b. 22 Jul 1745 Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA, married abt 1768 Hilltown Twp, d. 5 Apr 1840). She married Abraham Ledterman (b. 1739 Germany, d. 1823 Bedminster Twp, Bucks Co., PA) > >Do you recognize any of these names? >Good luck in your search. >Bob Wismer >wismerb@printeriors.com > > >---------- >From: Daniela Moneta >Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 4:41 PM >To: wismerb@printeriors.com >Subject: HOCH > >Hi, > >I see that you are researching the surname HIGH. I understand that the >German surnames HIGH and HOCH are related. I am looking for information on >my ancestor, Barbara HOCH, who married Andrew Gottschall sometime in the >1750s in Philadelphia or Chester Co., PA, and later moved to Fayette Co., >PA. Andrew's name is sometimes spelled as Gudgel. Andrew was originally >from Bucks Co., PA. I would be interested in any information about your >HIGH family. Were they Mennonites? > >I look forward to hearing from you. > >Sincerely, >Daniela > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:38:56 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: HOCH Here is another old email. It is rather long but I hate to deprive you of information that might prove useful. Daniela >Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:42:29 -0400 >X-Sender: kl2u@poe.acc.virginia.edu >To: dmoneta@primenet.com >From: "K. Edward Lay" >Subject: HOCH > >My descent relative to HOCH: >Hans HOCH (b. 1542 Basel, Switzerland) Saddler m. Magdalena ZELLER (my 12th >GGP) >Hans Jakob HOCH (b. 1575) Tablemaker m. Barbara PAFF >Peter HOCH (b. 1599) Tablemaker m. Barbara BIRI >Hans Jacob HOCH (b. 1625) Carpenter m. Barbara TSCHUDI >Hans Rudolf HOCH Sr (b. 1661) m. Maria GISI >Rev Melchoir HOCH (b. 1703) (Came to America in 1717) m. Barbara -- >Jacob HOCH m. Elizabeth LONGENECKER >Johannes HOCH (1742-1813) Mennonite Minister m. Magdalena SCHWEITZER >Jacob HIGH (d. 1837) m. Magdalena GABEL >Elizabeth HIGH (1793-1870) m. George LANDIS Sr > >My 7th GGP were Melchoir and Barbara HOCH of Hanover Tp, Philadelphia Co., >PA. Their son, Jacob HIGH, married Elizabeth LONGENECKER, daughter of Rev. >Daniel LONGACRE (1666 Switzerland- 1756 Lancaster Co, PA) and Elizabeth -- >and granddaughter of David LANGENEGGER (b. 1642) and Madlin GERBER. Jacob >HIGH, in turn, had a son, Rev. Johannes HIGH (1742-1813), who married >Magdalena SCHWEITZER (1745-1834) (my 5th GGP) and resided in N. Coventry >Tp., Chester Co., PA. She was the daughter of Jacob SCHWEITZER (c >1720-1746) and Mary HALDERMAN (c 1720-1806) and the granddaughter of Hans >SWEITZER (b. Switzerland-d. c 1748) and wife Elizabeth and Nicholas >HALDEMAN, Sr. (b. bef 1686 Switzerland and d. 1762 Coventry Tp, Chester Co, >PA) and wife Mary who came to America in 1727 (SURVEY OF IMMIGRANTS OF THE >HALDEMAN FAMILY TO MONTGOMERY . . ., v. 21, PA GEN MAG by Rev Carl Thurman >Smith, traces the HALDEMANN to the 14th Century in Switzerland). Johannes >and Magdalena HIGH's one son, Jacob HIGH, Sr. (1769-1837) 1m. Magdalena >GABEL (1772-1797). She was the daughter of Henrich GABEL (1734 Alsace, FR >- 1828 Berks Co) and Elizabeth BUTTERWECK (1741-1817) and the granddaughter >of Anna SOWERS and her 1st husband John GABEL, Sr. who died on the voyage >to America. > >Johannes (1742-1813) and Magdalena HIGH (my 5th GGP) had the following >known children: >John? HIGH >David HIGH (Phila Tavern owner) >Catharine HIGH (1784-1886) (8th of 11 children & she also had 11 children) >m John GABEL (d. 1823), son of Henry GABEL >Jacob HIGH, Sr. (1769-1837) 1m. Magdalena GABEL (1772-1797) (my 4th GGP) > She was the daughter of Henrich GABEL (1734 Alsace, FR - 1828 Berks >Co) and Elizabeth BUTTERWECK (1741-1817). > >Jacob HIGH (1769-1837) and his 1st wife, Magdalena, (my 4th GGP) had the >following children: >Henry HIGH (1791-1858) m. Anna EAST, daughter of Samuel EAST of >Colebrookdale Tp., Berks Co., PA. >Elizabeth HIGH (1793-1870) m. George LANDIS, Sr. (d. 1826) of Cumberland >Co., PA (my 3rd GGP). >John HIGH (1795-1852) m. Christina EAST > >Jacob HIGH (1769-1837) and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth (1770s-1853), moved c >1806 from Chester Co. to Cumberland Co., PA, and had the following >additional children: >Catherine HIGH >David HIGH (1801-1858) m. Sarah WHISLER >Abraham HIGH (d. 1835) m. Lydia WHISLER >Jacob Levi HIGH (1810-1864) m. Mary WHISLER >Margaret HIGH (1811-1889) >Mary HIGH (1814-1869) >Magdalena HIGH m. David McGLAUGHLIN >Susannah HIGH > >This Mennonite family can be found in the Hoch-High Family by Dr. J. >Hampton Hoch, 1978. > >Henrich (Henry) GABEL (1734-1828) m. Elizabeth BUTTERWECK had the following >known children: >John GABEL 1766-1830 m. Elizabeth SCHANTZ >Magdalena GABEL 1772-1797 m. John HIGH, Sr. 1769-1837 >Jacob GABEL 1774-1823 m. Catherine HIGH 1784-1886 >Elizabeth GABEL m. Jacob BECHTEL >Hannah GABEL m. John SCHANTZ >Maria GABEL m. Jacob KEPNER >Catharina GABEL m. John GEHMAN >Susanna GABEL m. -- KUNSENHAUSER > >Magdalena & Jacob GABEL above married brothers and sisters. > >My descent is as follows relative to the surname GOTTSCHALCK: >1. Adolf DUNCKELBERG b. 1606 m. Lisgen -- of Solingen, Westphalia, DEU on >the Rhine River (my 8th GGP); >2. Wilhelm DUNCKELNBERG b. 1650s m.1681 Stinger (Christina) HARTKOPF > daughter of Clemenson HARTKOPF; >3. Clemens DUNCKELBERGER m. 1705 Margaretha GOTTSCHALCK > daughter of Peter GOTTSCHALCK and Anna KIRSCHNER; >4. Clement DUNCKELBERGER 1705 Werttemberg DEU-1782 m. c 1738 Berks Co, PA, > Anna Maria HAUER daughter of Hans Michael HAUER c 1690-1751 and >Anna Maria -- who came to America from Germany on 31 Oct 1737; >5. Clemans DUNKELBAGER c 1752-1801 in Rev War m. Maria GURTNER 1752-1821 > moved to Perry Co, PA; >6. David DUNKELBERGER, Sr 1784-1850 m. Susannah SULLENBERGER 1793-1870 > both buried in St Peters Reformed Ch Cem, Spring Twp, Perry Co, >PA; >7. Catharina DUNKELBERGER 1816-1886 m. William DUNCAN 1815-1884 > both buried in Mt. Zion Lutheran Ch Cem, Spring Twp, Perry Co, PA; >8. Martha Elizabeth DUNCAN 1848-1937 m. Geo. Thompson HEFELBOWER Cumb Co, > PA; >9. Effie Kate HEFELBOWER 1870-1938 m. Edward Reuben LAY 1868-1941; >10. Kenneth Edward LAY, Sr. 1903-1994 m. Helen Jean FETTER 1907-1995; >11. K. Edward LAY 1932- m. Margaret Jane FLEMING 1933-. >They are listed in THE DUNKELBERGER FAMILY IN AMERICA, by Shirley J. >Turner, 1980 with revised editions, and in THE DESCENDANTS OF HANS MIEHLL >HAUER, 1720-1970, by Jane Hower Auker, 1970. > >- Ed > >K. Edward Lay ncarb >Cary D. Langhorne Professor of Architecture >University of Virginia >104 Wilson Ct. >Charlottesville, VA 22901-2942 > >Office 804.924.6444 >Fax 804.982.2678 >Home 804.973.6151 >E-mail KL2U@virginia.edu >Web Home Page http://poe.acc.virginia.edu/~Kl2u/ > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:36:33 -0800 From: Dianne To: Daniela Moneta Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel Daniela, Great! Maybe we'll get somewhere finally. I think searching collateral lines can be beneficial especially when we're at a dead end, of sorts, in other directions. But I am wondering about one thing. You show that Catherine Gudgel (dau of Old Andrew who married a Hoch) was born in March, 1760. If the Anderson Co, Ky history book(s) is true where it states that Andrew Jr was born in Baltimore in 1760, then I think something isn't quite accurate. How can we resolve this? I think it is encouraging also that the HOCHs are from such a long line of Mennonites in the same area, Bucks Co, PA. That makes it even more urgent that we concentrate on that area. Dianne G-H Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:04:43 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel At 11:36 AM 9/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Daniela, Great! Maybe we'll get somewhere finally. I think >searching collateral lines can be beneficial especially when >we're at a dead end, of sorts, in other directions. > >But I am wondering about one thing. You show that Catherine >Gudgel (dau of Old Andrew who married a Hoch) was born in March, >1760. If the Anderson Co, Ky history book(s) is true where it >states that Andrew Jr was born in Baltimore in 1760, then I think >something isn't quite accurate. How can we resolve this? > >I think it is encouraging also that the HOCHs are from such a >long line of Mennonites in the same area, Bucks Co, PA. That >makes it even more urgent that we concentrate on that area. > >Dianne G-H > Dear Dianne, I know, I have always been confused by the birth dates of Catherine Gudgel and Andrew Jr. All I know is that Catherine Gudgel Woodfield's birth and death dates are pretty well documented. If I am not mistaken, they are on her tombstone. She and her husband didn't go to Kentucky with the rest of the family. Her grandson was named Andrew Gudgel Woodfield. I believe that this Andrew was the son of Rezin Woodfield. Descendants of Catharine GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL 1 Catharine GUDGEL b: March 01, 1760 in Chester Co., PA (?) d: June 07, 1828 in Washington, Co., PA .. +Joseph WOODFILL b: September 17, 1754 in Wales or England d: in Washington Co., PA m: October 20, 1777 in Luzerene Township, Fayette Co., PA ........ 2 Mary WOODFILL b: February 16, 1781 in Washington Co. PA ........ 2 Joseph WOODFILL b: September 04, 1784 ........ 2 Saul WOODFILL b: 1786 ........ 2 Catharine WOODFILL b: June 25, 1790 ........ 2 Rezin WOODFILL b: December 20, 1790 ........ 2 Elizabeth WOODFILL b: July 19, 1795 ........ 2 John WOODFILL b: September 21, 1797 We need to do a lot more work on this. Love, Daniela From: "K.E. Stuart" Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel > Gudgel / Gudgeon Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:24:26 -0400 Hi all, I know that you had a discussion on this before I came to this list, possibly last spring but I missed it so forgive this repetition. Below is a statement that might indicate that Andrew Gudgel, Jr. may have been born in Baltimore, MD. My records show that Andrew Gudgel was actually Andrew Gudgeon, the son of Stephen and Lydia Denny Gudgeon of Baltimore Co, MD. Has this ever been proven or disproven? The book, Gudgeons in America lists him as their son. Stephen and Lydia Denny Gudgeon are my 6x great grandparents; my line comes down through their son, William and his wife, Mary Snow. Did Andrew Gudgel have a son Stephen? Thank you for bearing with me on this question. Kathryn ---------- : From: Daniela Moneta : To: Gudgel-List@eskimo.com : Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel : Date: 13 September, 1998 7:04 PM : : At 11:36 AM 9/13/98 -0800, you wrote: : >Daniela, Great! Maybe we'll get somewhere finally. I think : >searching collateral lines can be beneficial especially when : >we're at a dead end, of sorts, in other directions. : > : >But I am wondering about one thing. You show that Catherine : >Gudgel (dau of Old Andrew who married a Hoch) was born in March, : >1760. If the Anderson Co, Ky history book(s) is true where it : >states that Andrew Jr was born in Baltimore in 1760, then I think : >something isn't quite accurate. How can we resolve this? : > : >I think it is encouraging also that the HOCHs are from such a : >long line of Mennonites in the same area, Bucks Co, PA. That : >makes it even more urgent that we concentrate on that area. : > : >Dianne G-H : > : Dear Dianne, : I know, I have always been confused by the birth dates of Catherine Gudgel : and Andrew Jr. All I know is that Catherine Gudgel Woodfield's birth and : death dates are pretty well documented. If I am not mistaken, they are on : her tombstone. She and her husband didn't go to Kentucky with the rest of : the family. Her grandson was named Andrew Gudgel Woodfield. I believe that : this Andrew was the son of Rezin Woodfield. : : Descendants of Catharine GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL : : 1 Catharine GUDGEL b: March 01, 1760 in Chester Co., PA (?) d: June 07, : 1828 in Washington, Co., PA : .. +Joseph WOODFILL b: September 17, 1754 in Wales or England d: in : Washington Co., PA m: October 20, 1777 in Luzerene Township, Fayette Co., PA : ........ 2 Mary WOODFILL b: February 16, 1781 in Washington Co. PA : ........ 2 Joseph WOODFILL b: September 04, 1784 : ........ 2 Saul WOODFILL b: 1786 : ........ 2 Catharine WOODFILL b: June 25, 1790 : ........ 2 Rezin WOODFILL b: December 20, 1790 : ........ 2 Elizabeth WOODFILL b: July 19, 1795 : ........ 2 John WOODFILL b: September 21, 1797 : : We need to do a lot more work on this. : Love, : Daniela : From: "K.E. Stuart" Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel > Gudgel / Gudgeon Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:32:01 -0400 Hi all, I know that you had a discussion on this before I came to this list, possibly last spring but I missed it so forgive this repetition. Below is a statement that might indicate that Andrew Gudgel, Jr. may have been born in Baltimore, MD. My records show that Andrew Gudgel was actually Andrew Gudgeon, the son of Stephen and Lydia Denny Gudgeon of Baltimore Co, MD who we know to have been married prior to 1760.. The book, Gudgeons in America lists him as their son, born 1733 in Maryland and married prior to 1763. Stephen and Lydia Denny Gudgeon are my 6x great grandparents; my line comes down through their son, William and his wife, Mary Snow. Thank you for bearing with me on this question. I've kept quiet on the list but this reference to his son having possibly been born in Baltimore Co, MD seems to fit my information. Andrew is the reason I came to this list. Where would the information in the KY history book have come from? Didn't they usually come from family interviews? Kathryn ---------- : From: Daniela Moneta : To: Gudgel-List@eskimo.com : Subject: Re: Hoch/Gudgel : Date: 13 September, 1998 7:04 PM : : At 11:36 AM 9/13/98 -0800, you wrote: : >Daniela, Great! Maybe we'll get somewhere finally. I think : >searching collateral lines can be beneficial especially when : >we're at a dead end, of sorts, in other directions. : > : >But I am wondering about one thing. You show that Catherine : >Gudgel (dau of Old Andrew who married a Hoch) was born in March, : >1760. If the Anderson Co, Ky history book(s) is true where it : >states that Andrew Jr was born in Baltimore in 1760, then I think : >something isn't quite accurate. How can we resolve this? : > : >I think it is encouraging also that the HOCHs are from such a : >long line of Mennonites in the same area, Bucks Co, PA. That : >makes it even more urgent that we concentrate on that area. : > : >Dianne G-H : > : Dear Dianne, : I know, I have always been confused by the birth dates of Catherine Gudgel : and Andrew Jr. All I know is that Catherine Gudgel Woodfield's birth and : death dates are pretty well documented. If I am not mistaken, they are on : her tombstone. She and her husband didn't go to Kentucky with the rest of : the family. Her grandson was named Andrew Gudgel Woodfield. I believe that : this Andrew was the son of Rezin Woodfield. : : Descendants of Catharine GUDGELL/GUDSCHALL : : 1 Catharine GUDGEL b: March 01, 1760 in Chester Co., PA (?) d: June 07, : 1828 in Washington, Co., PA : .. +Joseph WOODFILL b: September 17, 1754 in Wales or England d: in : Washington Co., PA m: October 20, 1777 in Luzerene Township, Fayette Co., PA : ........ 2 Mary WOODFILL b: February 16, 1781 in Washington Co. PA : ........ 2 Joseph WOODFILL b: September 04, 1784 : ........ 2 Saul WOODFILL b: 1786 : ........ 2 Catharine WOODFILL b: June 25, 1790 : ........ 2 Rezin WOODFILL b: December 20, 1790 : ........ 2 Elizabeth WOODFILL b: July 19, 1795 : ........ 2 John WOODFILL b: September 21, 1797 : : We need to do a lot more work on this. : Love, : Daniela : From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:44:08 EDT Subject: HOCH Daniela, This is some UNVERIFIED information that I picked up a couple of years ago. I can't vouch for it, but some of it seems to fit with some of the information you forwarded. The information I have on Barbara HOCH is that she was born in 1737, married Andrew in 1757, and died in 1807. The 1737 birth date doesn't look like it will fit bery well with the Barbara in the list below. I don't think the following will be any real help, but here it is just in case. Descendants of Melchior Hoch, (Immigrant) 1 Melchior Hoch, (Immigrant) +Barbara (Maiden Name Unk) Hoch .....2 Jacob Hoch 1709 - 1769 ...... +Elizabeth Langenecker ........... 3 Henry Hoch ................ +Esther Bechtel 1755 - ? ........... 3 Daniel Hoch ........... 3 David Hoch ........... 3 John Hoch ........... 3 Barbara Hoch ........... 3 Jacob Hoch ........... 3 Philip Hoch 1755 - 1828 ........... +Anna Bechtel 1762 - 1819 ..................... 4 Mary B. Hoch ..................... 4 Esther B. Hoch ..................... 4 Anna B. Hoch 1786 - 1855 ..................... +Abraham Bechtel 1779 - 1840 ...........................5 Philip H. Bechtel ? - 1891 ...........................5 John H. Bechtel ...........................5 Anna H. Bechtel ...........................5 Elizabeth H. Bechtel ...........................5 Mary H. Bechtel ...........................5 Hester H. Bechtel ...........................5 David H. Bechtel 1806 - 1843 ...........................5 Henry H. Bechtel 1814 - 1875 ...........................5 Abraham H. Bechtel 1817 - 1891 ..................... 4 Elizabeth B. Hoch 1789 - 1873 ..................... +John C. Bechtel, Rev. 1779 - 1843 ...........................5 Susanna H. Bechtel ........................... +Noah Haldeman ................................6 Benjamin FBHaldeman ................................6 Elizabeth B. Haldeman ................................ +Andrew S. Mack .....................................7 Noah H. Mack .....................................7 Jesse H. Mack .....................................7 Emma H. Mack .....................................7 Elizabeth H. Mack .....................................7 Eli H. Mack ...........................5 Anna H. Bechtel 1810 - 1885 ...........................5 Elizabeth H. Bechtel 1816 - 1897 ...........................5 Maria H. Bechtel 1822 - 1843 ...........................5 David H. Bechtel 1829 - 1869 ........................... +Mary B. Bechtel 1830 - 1896 ................................6 John Elhannon Bechtel 1852 - ? ................................ +Rosanna Y. Johnson 1852 - 1911 .....................................7 Mary J. Bechtel 1879 - ? ..................................... +Edwin C. Bechtel 1876 - ? ..........................................8 Edna Stella B. Bechtel Private - ..........................................8 Anna Florence B. Bechtel Private - ................................6 Samuel Bechtel 1854 - 1917 ................................ +Catherine B. Bahr 1855 - 1886 .....................................7 Elsie B. Bechtel ................................ *2nd Wife of Samuel Bechtel: ................................ +Elmira H. Rohrbach 1866 - 1916 .....................................7 James Wilbur R. Bechtel .....................................7 Florence Mae R. Bechtel Private - .....................................7 Norman S. Bechtel Private - ..........................................6 Clement Bechtel 1856 - 1917 .......................................... +Sarah M. Landis ...............................................7 Emma L. Bechtel ...............................................7 Lloyd L. Bechtel ............................................... +Stella Yingling Private - ....................................................8 Melvin Y. Bechtel Private - ...............................................7 Helen L. Bechtel ...............................................7 Archie L. Bechtel ...............................................7 David Homer L. Bechtel ..........................................6 Aaron B. Bechtel 1862 -? .......................................... +Elmira B. Weiss ...............................................7 Russell W. Bechtel Private - ...............................................7 Mabel W. Bechtel Private - ..........................................6 Joseph B. Bechtel 1865 - 1946 .......................................... +Hannah Krauss Schultz, 1870 - 1918 ...............................................7 Francis Clarke Bechtel 1896 - 1978 ............................................... +Adelaide W. Woodside ? - 1960 ....................................................8 JennyBell Bechtel Private - .................................................... +William H. Whyte Private .........................................................9 Alexandra Woodside Whyte Private ...............................................7 Earle Schultz Bechtel 1900 - 1988 ............................................... +Marion Virginia Hepler 1905 - 1992 ....................................................8 Dwight E. Bechtel Private - .......................................*2nd Wife of Joseph B. Bechtel: ................................................ +Anna Mary Hensel 1882 - 1958 ...........................5 Rebecca H. Bechtel 1832 - 1917 From: "K.E. Stuart" Subject: Gudgel Marriages - Jefferson Co, IN Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:20:44 -0400 Can anyone tell me where these two Gudgel's fit? Marriages--Indiana to 1850 Andrew Gudgel married Elizabeth Sample on 27 Sep 1832 in Jefferson County, IN Jane Gudgel married Andrew W. Blake on 25 Sep 1839 in Jefferson County, IN From: "K.E. Stuart" Subject: Revolutionary War Graves - Gudgel Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:14:29 -0400 From: Abstract of Graves of Revolutionary Patriots: Volume 2    GUDGEL Andrew   Family Cemetery, near Owensville, Gibson Co, IN Who is this Andrew Gudgel? Kathryn Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:06:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: [INJEFFER-L] GREEN-WOODFILL-COTTON Hi everybody! I'm back in town now and in going through my mail I'm glad to see you guys have kept things lively . This email came across an list for Jefferson Co., IN re: WOODFILL family and others. I have corresponded with this lady before on this. Will be in touch with you guys later-got a lot to do at the moment. >From Linda- In super dry KENTUCKY- we sure could use a rain-grass is even crunchy! >Return-Path: >From: Tenaj45@aol.com >Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:35:40 EDT >Subject: [INJEFFER-L] GREEN-WOODFILL-COTTON > >Looking for any information: > > >1) Thomas Green Born Abt 1765 PA? Died August 1847 JeffersonCo., IN > > Will probated in Madison...Children in order of birth as listed in > his will: (no wife listed, believe he may have married a Margaret >Johnson?) > He Owned land in ShelbyCo, KY in 1819 > > 2) GEORGE* Born 6-29-1787 in PA Died 7-8-1865 Rising Sun, OhioCo., IN > (See #2 below-my line continues through George's children) > > 2) Thomas Born abt 1788 > > 2) Abraham- born abt 1789 Had a son Thomas as stated in the will. >Married: > Hannah Purchase Lot #65 City of Madison 1831 > > 2) Rachel Born 8/23/1794 > > 2) Peter Born Abt 1795 Purchase Lot #97 City of Madison 1816 > > 2) James Born abt 1798 Had a son William Abner Green Owen Co, IN > > 2) Sarah Born abt 1799 > > 2) Abner Born Abt 1800 > > 2) John Born Abt 1801 Had a daughter Sarah Jane > > 2) Margaret Born abt 1802 (Married Henry Alerod or Herod 7-4-1838 >JeffersonCo., IN?)She will Thomas's land to her bros James's son William Abner > > Also mentioned in the will: John Keler > >This line continuing with George: > 2) GEORGE* 1787 PA-1865 IN Married: Rachel Woodfill 4-28-1818 >ShelbyCo.,KY ? > She was born 5-6-1794 in KY She died 7-8-1865 Moore's Hill, >DearbornCo.,IN > Their children: > > > 3) JAMES M. Green** Born Abt 1819 in KY or IN ? Died? > > 3) Nancy Jane Born 4-26-1822 Died 6-30-1896 Moore's Hill, DearbornCo., >IN > Married Rev. Joseph Cotton-St John's Church, Madison, IN > > 3) Lucy A. Green Born abt 1836 (Married John Gilum 8-27-1845 > RandolphCo,IN ?) > > Continuing with James M: > > 3) JAMES M.GREEN** Married Eleanor Woodfill 4-12-1844 > She was born 1-1-1824 Died 3-12-1896 Los Angeles, CA > Their children: > > > 4) Charles H. Green > > 4) George A. Born 11-28-1848 Died 4-1-1869 Madison, IN Typhoid Fever > > 4) Rev. John Benjamin*** Born 12-29-1849 Madison, IN Died 4-5-1928 L.A., >CA > > 4) James T. Born abt 1853 > > 4) Emma C Born 3-06-1856 Madison, IN Died 4-11-1878 Madison, IN > > 4) Joseph W. Born Abt 1858 > > 4) Edward Born abt 1861 > > 4) Ellen born abt 1864 > > 4) Harry Born abt 1867 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > 4) JOHN BENJAMIN*** Married Mary Lucinda Robinson She was born >8-16-1853 > > She died 6-6-1920 L.A., CA. John spend all his life in service to the > Methodist Church and was a founder of the First California Conference. > Their children: ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > 5) George Harry Green **** Born 5-4-1879 CA ? Died 3-18-1946 L.A., CA > Married Emma Christina Anderson > > 5) Nellie Married Stanley Delmar Wheeler > > 5) Bertha Born 4-23-1878 Died 9-26-1962 > > 5) John Freeman Born Abt 1880 Died 10-17-1944 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > > > Janet Green/Tenaj45@aol.com > 5) George Harry Green is my grandfather. > > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:54:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL Marriages-Jefferson Co., IN Kathryn- Great to hear from you again and especially on the list. Your question: Who was Andrew GUDGEL married to Elizabeth (SAMPLE?) marr. 27 Sept. 1832 Jeffeson Co., IN- This Andrew (b. abt. 1809 KY- d. Dec. 23, 1878 Pike Co., IL) was a grandson of our old Andrew GUDGEL and son of John GUDGEL (b. 1776 PA-d. 1851 Jefferson Co., IN) and Jean HARBISON (b. New London Twp., Chester Co., PA- d. May 1869 Graham Twp., Jefferson Co., IN). He had 3 wives and many children: (1) Elizabeth "Betsy" SHANER (b. OH- d. ?) 3 children: David Milton, Louis Milhouse, and Andrew. (2) Elizabeth STAPLES (b. 1822 OH-d. June 29, 1849 (where?). Marr. Sept. 27, 1832. 6 children: Francis Marion, Rebecc Jane, John W., Allen, Eveline and Calvin. (Note: We need to verify her maiden name. I have Elizabeth STAPLES and you have Elizabeth SAMPLE-but the marriage date is the same. My data came from one of her descendants). (3) Catherine-last name unknown.-(b. VA (When?)- d. March 6, 1898 (where?). 3 children: Elmer, William T., and Ella Frances. Your 2nd question: Jane GUDGEL and Andrew W. BLAKE marr. Sept. 25, 1839 Jefferson Co., IN: Jane was a brother to the above Andrew and a granddaughter to our old Andrew. She was the 7th child of John GUDGEL and Jean HARBSION. I have no children listed for Jane GUDGEL and Andrew W. BLAKE. On your question about the Abstract of Graves of Revolutionary Patriots in Gibson Co., IN: Andrew GUDGEL. I have been told that this is Andrew's grandson and not the old Andrew. At one point we were also trying to prove that old Andrew was in fact a Revolutionary War patriot. After contacting the DAR Chapter that erected this memorial that is in Gibson Co., IN where an "Andrew GUDGEL" is listed, we were told that our old Andrew was included in the DAR applications and at some point it was approved. Seems at that time there was a "rush" in getting names included and later they discovered there was not sufficient evidence and our old Andrew's line was labeled a "closed line". Apparently there were several others that fell in the same catagory. So sufficient proof has never been found to verify that he indeed did serve in the Revolution-or at least not good enough to satisfy the DAR. I personally think he did serve in other ways such as delivering supplies to the soldiers, etc. And we have to remember that they came from the old Mennonite belief that they were "non-combatant". As far as the name on the memorial-I'm not sure at this point. I will add that Mr. Jim Pope from St. Louis, MO has told me that he has a copy of a letter written by old Andrew's daughter, Hannah GUDGEL MUSICK TEEL, that talks about her father participating in the Revolution. I have not seen this letter and he is supposed to send me a copy when he finds it. That's been a long time ago and Mr. Pope doesn't ever get in a hurry so I am still waiting. He is online now and having a terrible time getting his email straightened out. I have been trying to work with him on this for some time so maybe it won't be long. He'd be a great asset to us if we can get him going. (I think he's a little too proud at his age to ask for help from tech support but I have gotten 2 0r 3 emails from him so time will tell. Sort of like the rest of us when we began-we know just enough to get ourselves in trouble ). But he's a sweetheart and I love just listening to him. Linda From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:26:06 EDT Subject: Jacob and Elizabeth HOCH Daniela, No I don't know where Jacob and Elizabeth were married. I didn't even have a marriage date for them. As far as where Melchoir HOCH settled, the only thing I remember seeing is in one of the notes posted yesterday or the day before listing him as living somewhere in PA. It gave the location more specifically, but I don't remember where it was. Dave Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:04:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: ANDREW GUDGEL AND ELIZABETH STAPLES Karla- Please note that I stand corrected about the date of birth of Wife #2-Elizabeth STAPLES. Elizabeth STAPLES' date and location of birth is unknown, and date of death was June 29, 1849 Adams Co., IL. They married Sept. 27, 1832 Jefferson Co., IN. Andrew is buried in Journey Cem., Pike Co., IL Wife #3-Catherine (Unknown)-b. 1838 VA, d. Mar. 6, 1898. Don't know when they married. Wife #1-Elizabeth "Betsy" SHANER- B. 1822 Ohio, d. (not known). I seem to have gotten my Elizabeth's crossed up. This data came from Victor Shackleton in 1994, who'se wife is a descendant. Sorry for the confusion. Too many Elizabeth's and Andrew's! Linda Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:11:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: TIP# 170 - OLD TIME REMEDIES This came across another list and I thought you all might enjoy it. Boy, has medicine come a long way! How many of these sound familiar or do you remember your grandparent's using something similar? Linda > >TIP #170 - OLD TIME REMEDIES > >I'm taking a short break from the occupations for one more post - I will >return next week. I have consulted a lot of dictionaries and old time books >for this tip with greatest thanks to Lynwood Montell from his booklet >entitled Folk Medicine of the Mammoth Cave area. As they say as a >disclaimer on television shows, "Don't try these at home"! It is >interesting however, that as a Yankee transplant, I was familiar with >several of these; in fact, use a couple of them to this day! > >Knowing that our pioneers didn't have access to antibiotics, flu shots, >cough drops and many other things we take for granted, they improvised with >what was around them. Many times the cure was worse than the cause! >Physicians often used the same ingredients and carried herbs and supplies >with them in their little black bags. Here are just a few of the more >common remedies. > >ACNE: Juice from the leaves of a rose hip bush applied daily over the >affected area. >APPETITE - LOSS OF: Boil two cups of dogwood bark with 2 cups of water and >drink 3 times a day. >ARTHRITIS: Two tsps. of powder from a creek willow bark in a cup of water, >drink morning & night. >ASTHMA: Make a pillow, about ½ inch thick and fill with rabbit tobacco. >This helps night attacks. Or take a stick the exact length of the >sufferer, store it in the attic and the asthma would go away. Or wear >amber-colored beads. >BALDNESS: Rub cow dung over scalp. >BED WETTING: Make a tea out of corn silks. >BIRTH PAINS: Put a knife between the straw-tick and the feather bed. >BITES - INSECT: Place a small amount of turpentine on the bite or hold a >chaw of tobacco over it. > (this is still used). >BITES - SNAKE: Slice open a live chicken and leave the intestines inside. >Place over the bite to draw out > the poison. >BLEEDING: Put chimney soot over the wound as needed; also cobwebs were used >or a mushroom. >BLISTERS: Scrape two carrots, add 2 tbls. lard and 2 plaintain leaves. Stew >& strain, apply to blister. >BLISTERS - FEVER: Put cucumber juice on them. >BLOOD - TONICS: The powdered red roots of a sassafrass bush, drink 2 >tablespoons a day. >BLOOD - POISONING: Use green berries from bullnettle and boil in a quart of >water; drink daily. >BLOOD - PRESSURE: Chop several onions fine and place in a quart of water >for a day. Drink a cup a > day for a week. >BOILS: Take out the inner skin of a raw egg and place on boil. (Used that >one many times!). >BRONCHITIS: Drink a mixture of honey, lemon juice and alum. (Never heard of >the alum). >BRUISES: One egg (shell included), 1 tbl. salt, ½ pint turpentine; one >large cake of shredded camphor > Gum, one tbl. coal oil or kerosene; one pint apple vinegar. >Fill a bottle 2/3rds full, cork and > Shake. Spread over bruise, do not bandage. >BURNS: Scrape the inside of an "arsh" potato until it is a pulp and rub on >the burn. >CHIGGER BITES: Rub bacon rind over them. >COLDS: ½ cup molasses, 1 tbl. butter, 2 tbls. White vinegar cooked 10 >minutes. Take 1 tbl. every hour. OR > 1 tbl coal oil, one tsp. turpentine, 1 tbl. lard. Heat and >apply on chest as needed. Only wear red > flannel underwear. Or, catch a sowbug and put in a bag and wear around >the neck. >COLIC: 1 drop peppermint and 6 tsps hot water. Give 1 tbls. every two hours. >CONSTIPATION: 1 tbl. white mustard seed and 1/4th pint syrup; take 1 tbl. a >day. >COUGHS: ½ pint whiskey, 2 boxes rock candy; ½ tbl. glycerine. Put in bottle >and shake, 1 tbl. at a time. >CROUP: One piece of pine and wrap a piece of old bacon around it. Hold over >coals and catch the > Drippings. Give to baby as needed. >CUTS: Rub cow dung over the cut. (I've had that used on bee stings when I >was a child.) >DIARRHEA: Boil the smallest roots of the blackberry bush in a quart of >water until it boils down to 1 > pint. Cool and strain, take 1-2 tbls 3 times daily. (Note, I >know those who will just chew on the > roots of the blackberry bush). >EARACHE: Cut a twig from a hickory tree, hold over a stove until the sweet >oil runs out. Use in ear. Or: > Pour warm urine in the sore ear. >EYES - BLACK: A peeled raw potato will draw the black out. >EYEWASH: Bottle March snow - save for use during rest of year. >FRECKLES: Locate a stump that has rain water standing in it and wash the >face with the water. >HAIR - LOSS: One bottle of alcohol, one chopped onion, 20 white birch >leaves. Bring to boil, let it > Sit overnight, then rub into scalp for 15 minutes. >HEADACHE: Put camphor on a dry cloth and tie around the head. >HIVES: Mix 2 cups of sheep manure to ½ gallon of water to make a tea and >drink a cup 3 times a day! >INDIGESTION: ½ ounce rhubard, ½ oz. Gentian root, ½ oz. Orange peel, 1 qt. >Brandy. Drink as needed. >INFECTION: ½ cup epsom salts in a pan of water, soak. >INSOMNIA: 2" onion sliced up and boiled in a pint of water, strain and >drink as a tea. >ITCHING: Sulphur powder mixed with lard. Cover affected area. >MEASLES. To break out use a 8 oz. Glass of whiskey and add 2-3 tbls. sugar, >fill rest of glass with water. > Or: use sheep dung and make a tea, drink tea. Chicken dung could be used >also. >MOLES: Squeeze juice from a milkweed plant and apply to mole. >MUMPS: Mix 1 lb. Oatmeal and ½ pint yeast, heat and apply to swelling. >NAUSEA: Chew mint leafs. >NERVES: 1 piece rock candy in a jig of whiskey. Drink. >NOSEBLEEDS: Pour a gallon of milk on the back of the victim's neck. Or fold >a piece of paper over and > Place on the upper lip; a bean will also work; or soak feet in cold water. >PNEUMONIA: Mash cooked onions and put between two cloths, fasten to >victim's chest. >POISON IVY: Put washed leaves of a sweet fern in boiling water and apply to >affected area. >RHEUMATISM: Boil dried apple peelings, strain, drink hot 4 times daily. Or: >Wear the front foot of a > mole in a bag - a rabbit foot would also work. Or: turn your shoes >upside down at night. Or put a > Copper wire around the joint (sound familiar?), or carry sulfur in your >pocket. Or break the ice and > Jump into the river. Or get stung by bees. Or blind a live toad and hold >it over the aching place. Or put the entrails of a chicken on your feet. Or >rub with racoon grease, bacon grease, fishing worm oil, goat grease or >skunk grease. Or: sleep with a dog or cat as the animal will take your >pains away. >SHINGLES: Kill a black chicken by wringing its head off and while the body >is still warm, rub over the > affected area. >SINUS: 1 tsp salt and 1 cup warm water - sniff through nasal passages. >SORE THROAT: 1 cup vinegar, 2 tbls. sugar and a spinkle of black pepper. >Gargle. >SPRAINS: Soak brown paper in vinegar and wrap around affected joint. >STOMACH ACHE: 2 mint leaves in 8 oz. glass cold water, drink as needed. >SUNBURN: Cider vinegar to affected areas. >TEETHING: Boil catnip, steep, 1 tsp. at bedtime. >THRUSH: Let an old woman (preferably a witch) blow in the child's mouth. >Or, let the seventh son or > daughter blow. Even the breath of a jilted lover would work. >TOOTHACHE: Wad of tobacco on sore tools or two cloves (the latter I've >always used!) >WARTS: Rub castor oil over wart. Or take 9 grains of corn and rub them over >the wart. Feed the corn >to one old hen. OR: Steal a dishrag, rub it over the wart, bury the rag and >when the rag is rotted, wart will disappear. > >© Copyright 6 August 1998, Sandra K. Gorin, All Rights Reserved, >sgorin@glasgow-ky.com > >Sandi Gorin - A Proud Kentucky Colonel >205 Clements Ave., Glasgow, KY 43141-3409 (502) 651-9114 >PUBLISHING: http://members.tripod.com/~GorinS/index.html >BARREN CO WEBSITE: http://ww4.choice.net/~jimphp/barrenco/ >ARCHIVES for ROOTSWEB: http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl >PRAYER&PRAISE: http://www.listbot.com/subscribe/prayerandpraise > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:17:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Franklin County PA Hoch's Below is an email I received from a HOCH researcher. If any of you contact him please tell him I forwarded this to the list. Thanks, Linda >From: RealT4uBWIHoch@webtv.net (James Hoch) >Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:45:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: lfinnell@lex.infi.net >Subject: Franklin County PA Hoch's > >I saw your inquiry on the net. > >I am the son of John Hoch son of Frank Hoch son of Peter Hoch son of >Elias Hoch son of George Hoch son of David Hoch. David first appears in >census in Upper Strasburg, Pa. near Shippensburg, Pa. in in 1780's. >Each generation produced numerous brothers and sisters. > >I would be glad to share what information I have. Hope you have some >to. > >Regards, > >Jim Hoch > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:02:32 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: GUDGEL/Gudgeon and Rev War Linda, Thanks for answering the question again about the conflicting information on Old Andrew and the Rev War. I too am pretty convinced it was a mistake for the DAR to put that on this grave stone. It is highly unlikely as a Mennonite or Quaker that he participated except to the extent you mentioned. Now regarding the question about the name Gudgeon and Stephen and Lydia Denny Gudgel/Gudgeon. I too have read the family histories on the Maryland Gudgeons and at first thought I had really hit the jack pot. But the book by Charles Gudgeon shows connections that we know must be inaccurate because there are data we have showing otherwise. We do know that the name Gudgeon is placed next to Old Andrew's in the Fayette Co, PA history book by Ellis showing that Old Andrew was there in 1768 and so the names were interchangeable at that time (or else Ellis made a mistake when writing the book later on). But the information seemed to fit as Andrew Jr is listed in places as being born in Baltimore in 1760, but as we can see there seems to be real problems with that since Daniela shows us the pretty firm dates on Catherine Gudgel Woodfill vital stats. Daniela, are we absolutely certain of Catherine's parents? And all these questions bring up the old unsolved mystery of Daniel Gudgel and where he fits. Dianne G-H Anchorage Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:57:38 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: RE: HOCH Hi Gudgel researchers, I am going to forward a genealogy for Melchior HOCH in a separate email following this one. This is for those of you who are trying to determine who was Andrew Gudgel's second wife and mother of a number of his children. Some information I have indicates that Andrew's second wife was named Barbara HOCH. Yesterday I forwarded to you all an email with the descendants of Melchior Hoch (immigrant). Melchior may have been the grandfather of the Barbary Hoch that I am looking for. It is believed by some researchers that Andrew married Barbary in 1757. This has not been verified. Actually not much has! I am going to copy below something that Linda put on the list which is a summary of Andrew's children. Linda, is there any new information to add sent you sent us this information some time ago? Are there any new people on the list that can add to it? I would add that there is a possibility that Andrew had two other daughters. Susanna (my ancestor) b. April 23, 1759 and Catharine b. March 1, 1760. This is what Linda wrote: >From early deeds recorded in PA we find the name of Andrew and Catharine, his wife. Years later we find another deed that states Andrew and Barbara/Barbary, his wife (both spellings were used in this deed). So we know the first names of wife #1 and #2, however I haven't been able to determine which wife had which children for certain. With no dates of marriage it is even harder to determine-also not knowing all of the exact dates of birth of the children is a problem here. Linda went on to say: Here's what I have: Maria Johanna GOTTSCHALK-b. June 10, 1750 or 1751 Bedminster Twp., Bucks Co., PA. From baptism records of Tohickon Union Church. No other data. Mother was Catharine Elizabeth. Ester May GOTTSCHALK-b. May 7, 1753 Bedminster Twp., Bucks Co., PA. >From baptism records of Tohickon Union Church. No other data. Mother was Catharine Elizabeth. Mary "Polly" GUDGELL-d. after 1819. Marr. Michael ODOM Oct. 5, 1792 Woodford Co., KY. (I have a copy of this marriage bond). Later went to Opelousas, LA as Census records are recorded there for this family. Had 6 known children. Mary "Polly" and Michael named in Land Trial Records in 1819 Woodford Co., KY. Jean or Jane GUDSHALL- d, after 1819. Unmarried at father's death. No other data. Jane named in Land Trial Records in 1819 in Woodford Co., KY. Sophia GUDSHALL-b. 1790, d. after 1819. Named in Land Trial Records 1819 Woodford Co., KY. Married Francis HOPKINS Jan. 1, 1818 Gibson Co., IN. Have heard she marr. a second time but have not documented this. No record of children born. [Linda, here is where I would add Susanna] Elizabeth GUDGELL/GUDSHALL-b. April 23, 1763, d. Aug. 6, 1843 (probably in Madison, Jefferson Co., IN). Marr. Daniel WOODFIELD/WOODFILL Nov. 1, 1799 in Southwest PA. 9 known children. Elizabeth and Daniel came to KY shortly after her father, Andrew, as they appear on Militia Tax Rolls in Woodford Co. in 1795. Both named in Land Trial Records 1819 Woodford Co., KY. as WORDFIELD. Later went to Jefferson Co., IN-many descendants there. [And here is where I would add Catharine.] Sarah GUDSHALL/GUDGELL- b. after 1770, d. after 1819. Married Jacob STUCKER March 24, 1791 Woodford Co., KY. (I have a copy of this marriage bond). Both named in Land Trial Records 1819 Woodford Co., KY. 10 known children. This family also appears on the 1795 Militia Tax Rolls of Woodford Co., KY. Andrew GUDGEL(L), Jr.-B. 1760-1774 Baltimore, MD, d. 1840 Bath Co., KY. Marr. Jane MITCHELL Jan. 10, 1792 Woodford Co., KY (I have a copy of this marriage bond also). Believe he came to KY later-following his father. (ref. History of KY Illustrated, Perrin, Battle & Kniffin-pg. 835/Edition 8-B- states he came to KY about 1792 and settled in Bath Co., KY. Was once of the first Justice of the Peace and also served as Sheriff for one term). 6 known children. Will dated Jan. 14, 1840 Bath Co., KY. Jacob GUDGELL, Sr.-b. 1775 Westmoreland Co., PA (per LDS family files), d. 1830-1840 (where?). Marr. Drucilla "Drusey" DRISKELL/DRISKILL July 2, 1791 Woodford Co., KY ( I have a copy of this marriage bond also). Had land surveyed in Woodford Co., KY in 1793 and also appears on the Militia Tax Rolls in 1795. Later was on Franklin Co., KY (now Anderson Co.). Had 7 known children. John GUDGEL(L)-b. 1776 PA, d. 1851 Jefferson Co., IN. Marr. Jean HARBISON, dau. of David HARBISON and Catherine DOUGHERTY, May 23, 1804 Woodford Co., KY. (My copy of marriage bond was signed by Catharine HARBYSON (note spelling)with an "X", George DAUGHERTY (note spelling), and Andrew HERRON/HERREN. 15 known children (3 died early). Family went to Jefferson Co., IN. Jean HARBISON GUDGEL bur. Graham Twp., Jefferson Co., IN. John and Jean were not named in the original Land Trial Records in 1819 Woodford Co., KY but he did appear later and gave a deposition for the case on Saturday, June 2, 1821 as recorded in Woodford Co. Court records. Hannah GUDGELL/GUDSHALL- b. Jan. 10, 1785 (PA?), d. 1824 Gibson Co., IN. Mar. (1) Jesse MUSICK Nov. 7, 1801 Woodford Co., KY (I have a copy of this marriage bond), (2) Adam TEEL Sept. 5, 1817 Gibson Co., IN. Jesse MUSICK was killed in 1811 in the Battle of Tippicanoe in Indiana. 2 children by Jesse MUSICK. No known children by Adam TEEL. Hannah and Jesse were both named in Land Trial Records 1819 Woodford Co., KY. Abraham GUDGEL(L)/GUDSHALL-b. Jan. 26, 1784 (PA?), d. Oct., 1815, Jefferson Co., IN. Marr. July 21, 1808 Woodford Co., KY. Elizabeth HARBISON, sister of Jean HARBISON who marr. John GUDGELL. (I have a copy of this marriage bond signed by Catharine HARBYSON (with an "X") and Benjamin UTTERBACK. Abraham/Abram appears on the 1795 Militia Tax Rolls of Woodford Co., KY. NOTE: The mother of these children listed above are by wife #1 and wife #2. Children of the last marriage appear below: ====================================================================== Wife #3: Andrew came to KY about 1788 and married Elizabeth "Betsy" PAYN(E) Oct. 5, 1793 Woodford Co., KY. (I have a copy of this marriage bond). Family lore says she was a young widow with young children when they married and her maiden name may have ben PAUL). Part of this was apparently right because she was 30 and he was 66 when they married. Children by Elisabeth "Betsy" PAYN(E): (Marriage bond spells it PAYN) Nancy Jane GUDSHALL/GUDGELL- b. Dec. 2, 1797 KY, d. Oct. 6, 1878 Gibson Co., IN. Marr. (1) July 9, 1816 William P. TEEL Gibson Co., IN. (2) David THOMAS Mar. 19, 1849. 2 known children by Mr. TEEL. William P. TEEL, I belive, was a brother to Adam TEEL, that marr. Hannah GUDGELL. After the death of David Thomas, Nancy appears in the 1850 Census living with a daughter, Mariah TEEL McKEDDY. In 1856 she is applying for widow's benefits from William TEEL's service in the War of 1812. Nancy is named in the 1819 Land Trial Court Records in Woodford Co., KY as Nancy GUDSHALL (not sure why..she was married in 1816 to Mr. TEEL???). Both Adam TEEL and Nancy are bur, in GUDGEL Cemetery, Gibson Co., IN. Hetty "Hester" GUDSHALL/GUDGEL(L)-b. ca. 1800 KY, died ?. Married Harrison Davis McGARY April 5, 1821 Gibson Co., IN. Have also seen her name as Helen. Named in 1819 Land Trial Court Records Woodford Co., KY as Hella GUDSHALL. No children of this marriage. William GUDSHALL/GUDGEL(L)-b. Feb. 11, 1801 or 1802 KY, d. Jan. 22, 1877 Gibson Co., IN. Marr. Lucinda "Lucy" THURMAN Feb. 12, 1824 Gibson Co., IN. 12 known children. William named in the 1819 Land Trial Court Records of Woodford Co., KY. Both William and Lucinda bur. in GUDGEL Cemetery, Gibson Co., IN. Many descendants. Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:57:51 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: RE: HOCH >From: "Bob Wismer" >To: "'Daniela Moneta'" >Subject: RE: HOCH >Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:28:02 -0700 > >Hello Daniela, > >I just found Melchior on a trip April 1998 while on a trip to Salt Lake City >LDS Family History Library. My Hoch/High family find was my big find. I had >one a High and a Hoch line that both ended up being descendants of Melchior. >Here's the first four generations I have on the line from my trip w/ >sources. > >I descend through Melchior's other son Philip Hoch, who married Ann >Langenecker, sister to your Elizabeth Langenecker. Below I'll attach what I >have on that line. If you would like, I can make a copy of what I have on >Melchior and his son Jacob and mail it to you. > >Where did you find Melchior's wife's name; I don't have that. > >I would like to know more about the children of Jacob High and Elizabeth >Langenecker. Do you have more information on the ancestors of Elizabeth? > >I'm looking forward to hearing from you again. >Bob Wismer >Bellevue, WA > >HOCH1,2 resided at in Canton of Basel, Switzerland. > I. Rudolph HOCH3,4,5 immigrated in 1717 to Philadelphia, Philadelphia Co., >PA. He emigrated about 1717 from Canton of Basel, Switzerland. He was >buried in 1748 in Hoch family cemetary, Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. He died on >8 Jan 1748 in Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. He was Mennonite. He resided at in >,Chester Co., PA. > Rudolph HOCH 6,7 was married to Veronica in ,Switzerland. Veronica8,9,10 >was buried in 1728 in Hoch family cemetary, Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. She >died in 1728 in Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. Rudolph HOCH and Veronica had the >following children: > A. Johannes\John HOCH11,12 was born in 1700 in ,Switzerland. He emigrated >in 1717 from Canton of Basel, Switzerland. He was buried in 1777 in Hoch >family cemetary, Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. He died on 11 Jul 1777 in Oley >Twp, Berks Co., PA. He resided at Schuylkill in ,Chester Co., PA. >"Johannes or John Hoch, son of Rudolph, is said to have been married to >Susanna Herbein while he was living with his father at the Schuykill." >Hoch-High Family in America, 1962 > Johannes\John HOCH 13 was married to Susanna HERBIEN in 1720 in Swedeland, >Montgomery Co., PA. Susanna HERBIEN was born in 1698 in Oley Twp, Berks >Co., PA. She was buried in 1763 in Hoch family cemetary, Oley Twp, Berks >Co., PA. She died on 22 Feb 1763 in Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. Johannes\John >HOCH and Susanna HERBIEN had the following children: > 1 Deborah HOCH14 was born on 6 May 1721 in Swedeland, Montgomery Co., PA. >She was buried in 1779 in Hoch family cemetary, Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. >She died on 6 Feb 1779 in Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. > B. Samuel HOCH15 was born in 1702 in ,Switzerland. > Samuel HOCH 13 was married to Sarah BAUMAN. Samuel HOCH and Sarah BAUMAN >had the following children: > 1. Daniel HOCH16 was born on 18 Jan 1731 in Oley Twp, Berks Co., PA. > II. Melchior HOCH17,18 immigrated in 1717 to Philadelphia, Philadelphia >Co., PA. He emigrated about 1717 from Canton of Basel, Switzerland. He was >Mennonite. He resided in ,Bucks Co., PA. > A. Jacob HOCH19 was born before 1709 in ,,PA. He owned purchased from >Thomas Preston on 16 Aug 1741 in Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co., PA. He signed >a will in 1758. Probated 17 Feb 1769 He owned 284 acres purchased from >John Frelich on 25 Aug 1759 in East Nantmeal Twp, Chester Co., PA. >Philadelphia Deed Book H 10, p. 552 He owned land inherited from father >1740 & 1743 in Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co., PA. He was a Farmer. > Jacob HOCH 20,21,22 was married to Elizabeth LANGENECKER before 1732. >Jacob HOCH and Elizabeth LANGENECKER had the following children: > 1. Johannes HOCH23 was born on 31 Dec 1742. > B. Philip HOCH24,25,26 was born on 13 Apr 1712 in ,Switzerland. He >immigrated in 1717 to Philadelphia, Philadelphia Co., PA. He emigrated >about 1717 from ,Switzerland. He owned from Abraham Updegraff in 1737 in >Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co., PA. He owned from Thomas Preston in 1749 in >Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co., PA. He owned on 9 Apr 1751 in Hilltown Twp, >Bucks Co., PA.27 "On April 9, 1751 Philip Hoch of New Hanover Township, >weaver, bought two parcels of land in Hilltown Township of Bucks County, >totaling 310 acres. These are recorded in Bucks County Deed Book 30, page >510 and 513 on June 11, 1800. Thus we have fixed the approximate date when >Philip Hoch moved to Bucks County, i.e. before his brother Jacob left New >Hanover to take residence in Chester County.", Hoch-High Family in America, >1962, pg B.9 He owned Sold to Casimir Missimer on 25 Nov 1752 in Hanover >Twp, Montgomery Co., PA. "Sauer's Pennsylvania German newspaper on May 16, >1751 carried the following advertisement: "Philip Hoch an der Olier Strass, >2 Meilen von der Manatani in Hanover Township wishes to sell his farm of 170 >acres. Apply to him or his brother Jacob High". This add was at least >partially successful, because on November 21, 1752 Philip Hoch and wife Anna >sold Casimir Missimer over 40 acres of this tract, for 73 pounds, 8 sh., 2 >d. Philip had purchased this portion from Thomas Preston. The surveyer >Schultze's journal fo November 21, 1752 says, "Land surveyed for Casimer >Missimer at Jacob Hoch's". Philip's land adjoined that of his brother Jacob >and Schultze was probably better acquainted with Jacob Hoch, hence mentions >him in the Journal.", Hoch-High in America, 1962, pg B.9 He was buried in >1802 in Blooming Glen Menn Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. He died on 11 Mar 1802 >in ,,PA. He was a Weaver. He was Mennonite. On June 18, 1798, when 86 >years old, Philip Hoch deeded all his land to his sons, David, John and >Daniel, each getting equal shares; recorded June 11 and August 6, 1800 ... >Philip Hoch's estate, valued at 1186 pounds, 5 sh., 10 d., was administered >by his sons Jacob, Philip and John and by Abraham Dursten (who may have been >a son-in-law). See Book B, pages 13 and 83 (Bucks County). See appendix B- >vii inventory of the estate.", Hoch-High Family in America, 1962, pg B.9 > Philip HOCH 28,29,30 was married to Ann LANGENECKER. Ann >LANGENECKER24,31,32 was born on 15 Sep 1715. She died on 22 Oct 1794 in >,Bucks Co., PA. She was Mennonite. She was buried in Blooming Glen Menn >Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. Philip HOCH and Ann LANGENECKER had the following >children: > 1. Daniel HOCH33,34 was born before 1746. He immigrated in 1801 to >,Lincoln County, Ontario, Canada. About 20 miles from Niagara Falls, buying >their land from Colonel Butler's Raiders. He died in 1808 in Jordan, >Ontario, Canada. He owned bet 1770 & 1787 in Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA. >Tax records of Hilltown Township, Bucks County show Daniel Hoch as a >resident (1770-1787) > 2. Annah HOCH35,36 was born on 22 Jul 1745 in Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA. >She died on 5 Apr 1840 in ,Bucks Co., PA.37 She has reference number 173. >She was buried in Deep Run Menn Ch, Bedminster Twp, Bucks Co., PA. She was >Mennonite. > 3. Philip HOCH38,39 was born before 1752 in ,,PA. He owned 82 acres on 16 >Dec 1782 in Bedminster Twp, Bucks Co., PA. He was buried in 1836 in Deep >Run Cemetary, Bucks Co., PA. He died on 16 Mar 1836. He was Mennonite. He >was a Weaver. He resided at in Bedminster Twp, Bucks Co., PA. > 4. David HOCH24,40 was born on 5 Jul 1753 in ,,PA. He was buried in 1847 >in Blooming Glen Menn Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. He died on 20 Sep 1847. He >was buried in Blooming Glen Cemetary, Bucks Co., PA. He resided at in >Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA. He was Mennonite. Name also found as HOCH. > RELIGION: Mennonite"David Hoch was born July 5, 1753. He married the widow >of Daniel Bechtel. She was Barbara _____, born December 1, 1763, died July >3, 1811. They lived in Hilltown Township, Bucks County, where David Hoch's >name appears on tax records from 1781 to 1811. When Barbara died her will >(Bucks Co. Book 8, p.208) gave her inheritance from her first husband to >David Hoch. This was then in the custody of the Mennonite Minister Christian >Biery who had married Mariah Hoch. David Hoch died September 20, 1847, aged >94, and was buried with his wife at Blooming Glen Mennonite Cemetary. His >estate was administered by his son Philip; the settlement also mentions John >High.", Hoch-High Family in America, pg B.22 > 5. Jacob HOCH41 was born before 1754 in ,,PA. He was a Weaver on 22 May >1775 in Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA. He owned on 22 May 1775 in Hilltown >Twp, Bucks Co., PA. He is recorded (May 22, 1775) as a weaver of Hilltown >Township when he purchased 50 acres of land. He owned on 5 Apr 1810 in >,Bucks Co., PA. > 6. Maria HOCH42 died before 1828. She was born in ,,PA. > 7. John HOCH43 was born on 13 Mar 1757 in ,,PA. He was buried in 1828 in >Blooming Glen Menn Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. He signed a will on 7 Aug 1828 >in ,,PA. Probated 29 Aug 1828 (Bucks Co. Book 10, p. 647) He died on 17 >Aug 1828. He resided at in Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA. He was Mennonite. > 8. Barbara HOCH44 was born on 11 Oct 1761 in ,,PA. She was buried in 1801 >in Blooming Glen Menn Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. She died on 17 May 1801 in >,,PA. > 9. Elizabeth HOCH45 was buried in 1831 in Blooming Glen Menn Cemetary,, >Bucks Co., PA. She died on 3 Nov 1831 in ,,PA. She was born in ,,PA. > >SOURCES >1. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg A.1. >2. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >3. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg A.1. >4. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >5. William D. Steigerwalt & Mae Parker Steigerwalt. Hoch-High Family, >1542-1971. Sparta, NJ. pg 2. >6. Alfreda Patton of York, PA. Frankenfield Kin & Family Data. 1987. >Page 177-8, 193. >7. LDS IGI 1991. >8. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg A.1. >9. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >10. William D. Steigerwalt & Mae Parker Steigerwalt. Hoch-High Family, >1542-1971. Sparta, NJ. pg 2. >11. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg A.1. >12. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >13. Margery (Mapley) Carlton of Westland, MI (Personal records). 1992. >14. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >15. Ibid. pg 5. >16. William D. Steigerwalt & Mae Parker Steigerwalt. Hoch-High Family, >1542-1971. Sparta, NJ. pg 2. >17. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg A.1, B.1-3. >18. Patricia L. Alford. Descendants of Rudolph Hoch and His Wife Veronica >and Related Families. Decorah, Iowa, The Anundsen Publishing Co.,. pg 5. >19. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.2. >20. Naturalization, #80930, 27 Apr 1868. >21. 1900 Census, Michigan. >22. Margery (Mapley) Carlton of Westland, MI (Personal records). 1992. >Info collected from Mrs. Burl Mapley. >23. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK6-0ZM. >24. Elizabeth McCulley, 11550 GA Hwy 219, West Point, GA 31833 (Personal >records). 1993. >25. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.9-10. >26. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK7-JGF. >27. Bucks County Misc Deeds, Vol 30. pg 510 & 513 on June 11, 1800. >28. "Urmy Family" Descendancy Chart. >29. Information collected by Mary Champion from the Markham Museum >(Supplied by Margery Carlton of Westland, MI). 1992. >30. "Wideman Family" Book. >31. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.9-10. >32. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK7-JHM. >33. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.10. >34. 1790 U.S. Census. Hilltown Twp, Bucks Co., PA w/ (3) sons over 16, (5) >sons under 16, & (2) daughters. >35. Compiled by Rev. I. John Leatherman, In Collaboration With Emma >Leatherman Candler. All Leatherman Kin History. Nappanee, Indiana: E.V. >Publishing House, 1940. Buried at Old Deep Run Mennonite Church Cemetary. >36. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.10. >37. Compiled by Rev. I. John Leatherman, In Collaboration With Emma >Leatherman Candler. All Leatherman Kin History. Nappanee, Indiana: E.V. >Publishing House, 1940. >38. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.20. >39. 1790 U.S. Census. Two sons over 16, three under 16, & four daughters. >40. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.22. >41. Ibid. pg B.10, B.20. >42. Ibid. pg B.10. >43. Ibid. pg B.10, B.24. >44. Ibid. pg B.10. >45. Ibid. pg B.10. > >Ulrich LANGENEGGER1 was born between 1602 and 1609 in Langnau, Emmenthal, >Bern, Switzerland. >Ulrich LANGENEGGER was married to Katharine GAUMANN on 10 Aug 1629 in >Langnau, Emmenthal, Bern, Switzerland. Katharine GAUMANN2 was born about >1609. Ulrich LANGENEGGER and Katharine GAUMANN had the following children: > I. David LANGENEGGER3 was born in 1642. He was christened on 20 Nov 1642 >in Langnau,, Bern, Switzerland. > David LANGENEGGER was married to Madlin GERBER. David LANGENEGGER and >Madlin GERBER had the following children: > A. Ulrich LANGENEGGER4 was born in 1664 in Langnau, Switzerland. He died >in 1757. > B. Rev. Daniel LANGENECKER5,6 was born in 1666 in ,Switzerland.7 He died >on 12 Oct 1756 in ,Lancaster Co., PA.7 Ancestral File lists name as Daniel >LONGACRE > Rev. Daniel LANGENECKER 8,9,10 was married to Elizabeth. Rev. Daniel >LANGENECKER and Elizabeth had the following children: > 1. David LANGENECKER11 died about 1776. He was born est 1706 in >,Switzerland. > 2. John LANGENECKER12 was born in 1708 in ,Switzerland. He died in 1745 in >,Philadelphia Co., PA. > 3. Magdalena LANGENECKER13 was born about 1712 in ,Switzerland. She was >buried in Phoenixville Menn, Chester Co., PA. > 4. Ann LANGENECKER14,15,16 was born on 15 Sep 1715. She died on 22 Oct >1794 in ,Bucks Co., PA. She was Mennonite. She was buried in Blooming Glen >Menn Cemetary,, Bucks Co., PA. > 5. Mary LANGENECKER17 died in Great Swamp, Upper Milford Twp., Lehigh Co., >PA. > 6. Jacob LANGENECKER18. > 7. Elizabeth LANGENECKER19. > 8. (Henry) LANGENECKER20. > 9. Daniel LANGENECKER21. > C. Andrew LANGENECKER22. > >SOURCES >1. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: XXRH-2W. >2. Ibid. AFN: XKRH-33. >3. Ibid. AFN: XKRH-48. >4. Ibid. AFN: 1HK7-J70. >5. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.9. >6. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK7-J86. >7. Ibid. >8. Naturalization, #80930, 27 Apr 1868. >9. Margery (Mapley) Carlton of Westland, MI (Personal records). 1992. >Info from Mrs. Burl Mapley. >10. 1900 Census, Michigan. >11. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK6-127. >12. Ibid. AFN: 1HK-JD1. >13. Ibid. AFN: 1HK7-JK2. >14. Elizabeth McCulley, 11550 GA Hwy 219, West Point, GA 31833 (Personal >records). 1993. >15. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.9-10. >16. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK7-JHM. >17. Ibid. AFN: 1HK6-178. >18. Ibid. AFN: 1HK6-18G. >19. Arranged by J. Hampton Hoch, Historian of the Hoch-High Family Reunion. >Hoch-High Family in America, A Record of Some Hoch Immigrants and Their >Descendents. Issued by the Hoch-High Family Reunion, 1962. pg B.2. >20. LDS Ancestral File, version 4.18. copyright July 1996. AFN: 1HK6-19N. >21. Ibid. AFN: 1HK6-1BV. >22. Ibid. AFN: 1HK7-J9D. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniela Moneta [mailto:dmoneta@home.com] >Sent: Sunday, September 13, 1998 8:29 PM >To: Bob Wismer >Subject: RE: HOCH > >Hi Bob, >We corresponded before. I am looking for a Barbary HOCH who was born in >1737 and married an Andrew Gudgel in the 1750s. I may have some new >information about a Melchior Hoch (Immigrant) and his son, Jacob Hoch >1709-1769, who married Elizabeth Langenecker. These people apparently had >a daughter Barbara. I need to find out more about Melchior and his son. >Have you ever run across these names? Here is some of the new information. > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:40:16 -0700 From: Daniela Moneta Subject: Fwd: RE: HOCH The following message is especially for Dave. Do you remember where you got the information on Melchior and Barbara? Thanks, Daniela >From: "Bob Wismer" >To: "'Daniela Moneta'" >Subject: RE: HOCH >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:22:17 -0700 > >Hello Daniela, > >Do you know where you got Barbara's name from, wife of Melchior Hoch? > >Do you have any additional information on Langenecker/Langenegger family? > >I would appreciate any help. > >Thanks, >Bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniela Moneta [mailto:dmoneta@home.com] >Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 10:05 PM >To: wismerb@printeriors.com >Subject: RE: HOCH > > >Dear Bob, >Thanks so much for all the material you sent me on the HOCH line. I will >try to locate the book you mention. You have been very helpful. >Sincerely, >Daniela > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:48:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: THE GODSHALK'S (ETC.) FAMILY IN AMERICA-Segment #11 >From the magazine, "The Genealogical Helper"--Mrs. Sue Gorman, 612 SE Wilshire, Bartlestsville, OK 74003 is researching the GUTSCHOW family. L.K. GOTTSCHALK, Box 8, Richwood, NJ 08074 is reserching all apellings of the family. Mrs. Charles Phillips, 24640 Calvert Street, Woodland Hills, CA 91364 is researching the GOTTSCHALK family. Page 26 Mrs. Betty Jane Willard, G33 Montgomery Court, Narberth, PA 19072 is seeking data on David GOTSHALL, born 1817, died October 3, 1871, Sunbury, PA, married Lydia Ann ----- in 1841. in Lower Augusta, Northumberland, PA, children: Silas, Henry, William, Reuben, David, Lydia, and Emmanuel. (Note in margin says Michael's heirs). Elizabeth Knize, Box 221, Eager, Arizona 85925 offers data on the PA German family GODSHALK. ************************************************************************ >From the magazine, "Ohio Records and Pionerr Families"--Jacob GOTSHALL married Mary McEntire between 1840-49 in Carroll Co., OH as did Moses GUTCHALL, who married Catherine A. Hosterman and Jacob GOTSHALL who married Eliza Krider. Samuel GRITCHELL married Margaret Boop there. Elias GUTSHALL married Susannah Rider and Nathaniel GUTSHALL married Sarah Martin and John GURSHALL married Eliza Narrogong, all in 1837 there. On a list of Meigs Co., OH peopneer families was Daniel GOTSHALL who was born in Harrison Co., OH February 11, 1831, the son of Daniel and Mary GOTSHALL. He married in Harrison Co., OH May 20, 1855 to Catherine Haun, born in Harrison Co. February 4, 1835, dau. of John and Catherine Shilling Haun. They came to Meigs Co. in 1861. They had John, George, and Mary GOTSCHALL. In a digest of old newspapers of Monroe Co., OH Dec. 7, 1853 the final settlement of the estate of Jeremiah GATCHELL, by Nathan GATCHELL, adminstrator. In the firlst records of the Steubenville Land Office, Northwest Territory was Nicholas GUTSHALL of Washington Co., PA who purchased land in 1802 in the Northwest Terrotory. Page 27 Buried in Adams Cemetery, Delaware Twp., Hancock Co., OH, is Hannah E. GETGHELL, wife of J. GETGHELL, died 3/10/1878, aged 25 yrs, 17 days. On the 1825 Guernsey Co., OH list was Jacob GATCHELL. Buried in Callahan Cemetery, Wyandot Co., OH, is the dau. of Elder C.H. GATCHELL, and his wife, M.J., died January 26, 1895, aged 27 days. The will of Nicholas GUTSHALL is in Will Book I, in the Jefferson Co., OH Courthouse records, between 1798-1821. George and William GOTSHALL were pioneers of Cochocton Co., OH. ************************************************************************ >From "Kentucky Court and Other Records" page 166--Buried in Springfield Church Cemetery in Bath County: John A. GUDGELL May 11, 1840- May 16, 1863 Louisa J., consort of Joseph GUDGELL June 20, 1814 - July 28, 1861 Joseph GUDGELL May 10, 1858 - August 1, 1858 Elizabeth A. GUDGELL 1835-Sept. 12, 1855 ************************************************************************ >From "Bible Records and Marriage Bonds" page 5--S.C. GODSHALL marr. Miss A.H. Webb, September 27, 1849, in Nashville, TN by Robert Howell, minister. ************************************************************************ >From "History of Perry Co., PA" page 566--Samuel P. GUTSHALL of Jackson, was an officer in Company C, 92nd regiment,, Civil War. Harry R. GUTSHALL of Madison Twp. was in the 314 Regiment in France in WWI, as was another Harry GUTSHALL from Madison Twp of the 20th Engineer who died of disease at Washington, DC. From Newport was was Roy GUTSHALL of the 103rd Engineers who was gassed in France. Solomon GUTSHALL was an early resident of Blain Borough. Dr. F.A. Page 28 GUTSHALL an 1866 graduate of the U. of PA, located there (at Blain) in 1866 after coming from New Germantown. ************************************************************************ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:49:51 -0800 From: Dianne To: Daniela Moneta Subject: Re: Andrew's first wife If Catharine Eliz is thought to be Andrew Sr's first wife with daughters Maria Johanna (ca. 1750) and Ester May (b 1753) with the last name of Gottschalk (in the Bucks Co, PA area), I see a fairly large gap between 1753 and the next daughters Susanne, Eliz, and Catherine (b.1759or 60 to 1763 in various parts of PA and all of whom married Woodfill boys). Children usually were born every 2-3 years in those days. If Andrew's wife died then he would likely have married fairly quickly as he would have needed someone to care for his children. And I think we still lack clear evience that the Gottschalks we have been attributing to our Andrew of Bucks Co, PA were indeed related. As we an see from all the information that Linda has been giving us on Gottshalks in PA in the early years, that was a common name. We do know our Andrew was in Bucks Co in 1757 because we find his IOU and the later law suit in Fayette Co, PA over the debt (that Terri Montigny found the papers on). And Daniela found what appears to be Andrew's oath of naturalization in 1747--is that date correct in Phil or Bucks Co--I can't recall which just now). But the large gap in children's ages is puzzling. So I am still suspect about Maria and Ester being Old Andrew's children. Also I see a problem with three daughters born betwen 1759/60 and 1763. I am wondering, Daniela, do we know if Susanna, Eliz and Catherine were indeed all sisters? So is one or more of these 3 girls who married Woodfills all daughters of Old Andrew? Daniela would be the best source on this I think. Perhaps our data on their birthdates are off a few yrs. which is entirely possible, otherwise perhaps one is a cousin to the other, or niece? Dianne G-H From: EGudgel@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:40:44 EDT To: gudgel-list@eskimo.com, lfinnell@lex.infi.net Subject: Fwd: Andrew's first wife Not Sure if last email sent so repeat message On old Andrew Gudgel his son Andrew, jr., born in 1773 not 1760 if information from relative Mrs. George Reynolds of Fairfield Ca. is correct. She shows children born every 2 years from 1771 to 1779 with Barbara Koch as mother. He remarried @ 1790. Ed Gudgel Fort Myers Fl. From: EGudgel@aol.com To: dianeh@corecom.net, lfinnell@lex.infi.net Subject: Re: Andrew's first wife Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:12:22 EDT Hi folks From a list @ Andrew Gudgel from Mrs. George Reynolds 743 East Atlantic Ave Fairfield Ca 94533 she has Andrew Gudgel Jr as born in 1773. seems a likely date 11 children like clockwork every 2 years. Mother probably Barbara Hoch..last child probably Edward in1789..before he married Elizabeth Payne in 1790. I think the Gottscalks are another family and Andrew. Jr., in Baltimore not our Andrew. Edward F. Gudgel MD Fort Myers FL. Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:01:03 -0700 From: Nancy Miller Subject: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. I recently received a copy of the 1998 edition of "Columbia Township, Gibson County Indiana, Directory of Cemeteries". It lists five cemeteries, with two of them having Gudgels in them. Since this is a new book, thought some of you might have an interest in them, so I will copy them without comment. I might be able to figure out who they are, but I'm sure that Linda has a better idea of that than I do. >From the Montgomery cemetery: Gudgel, Anne 12-23-1863 01-20-1926 Gudgel, N.T. 01-08-1837 06-24-1899 Gudgel, Nancy wife of M T Gudgel ---- ---- Forsythe Cemetery Gudgel, A.M. age 2y 11m dau of E & E 09-15-1874 Gudgel, Thomas age 12Y 4M son of E & E 10-24-1872 Gudgel, Large Stone Lucy F. 06-26-1850 05-18-1851 Martha J. 07-11-1852 07-11-1853 George M. 08-08-1856 02-23-1868 Andrew 02-19-1825 07-23-1910 Elvira 09-13-1826 04-20-1898 Hon. Levin W. Son of A & E. 06-26-1850 Dr. James E. Son of A & E 03-10-1858 Elinorah Dau of A & E 05-10-1860 Hon. William H. Buried at South Bend Wash. 07-18-1847 12-10-1905 Dr. John F. Buried at Hazelton,Ind. 01-29-1849 10-05-1901 Gudgel, Andrew W. Sgt Co A 58 Ind Inf Gudgel, Clarrietta Gudgel, Edward T. Co A 58 Ind Inf 02-05-1835 05-16-1908 Gudgel, Elizabeth His wife 10-09-1836 04-24-1899 Gudgel, Elvira Note: Stone not found or unreadable Gudgel, George 00-00-1856 00-00-1868 Gudgel, John F. 00-00-1868 00-00-1933 Gudgel, Margaret L. 00-00-1863 00-00-1933 Gudgel, William 08-24-1886 08-02-1898 That is the extent of the GUDGELs in the Columbia Township cemetery book. Nancy Teel Miller Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:29:54 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Nancy Miller Subject: Re: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. >From Doyal Gudgel Nancy Miller wrote: > I recently received a copy of the 1998 edition of "Columbia Township, > Gibson County Indiana, Directory of Cemeteries". It lists five > cemeteries, with two of them having Gudgels in them. Since this is a new > book, thought some of you might have an interest in them, so I will copy > them without comment. I might be able to figure out who they are, but > I'm sure that Linda has a better idea of that than I do. > Hon. William H. Buried at South Bend Wash. 07-18-1847 12-10-1905 A part of the story on William H Gudgel is that he was in the Civil War from Indiana . Late in the war. After the war he became Prosecuting Attorney for Evanston Indiana. He got a divorce and moved about as far as he could from Evanston. Which was South Bend. South Bend was a logging town. And was until logging went bust lately. I went to South Bend and looked up people who still knew him slightly about 25 years ago. . In South Bend there is a Museum on the main street. South Bend is on Willipa Bay on the Pacific ocean. I talked to one of the elderly ladies there and she remembered William as being very fat and the kids used to make fun of him. I researched a long time to find information about him. The problem was that he died in 1905 ( I think) but nothing was published about him until 1906 in the newspaper. After finally finding the newspaper article I went to the death records to find out actual date of death. From the newspaper article I found the exact location where he dropped dead after having a meal at one of his cronies. He was an attorney when in South Bend and if my memory serves me right he was also a JP for a while. The newspaper said he was buried in the Odd Fellows cemetery about a mile out of town. I went ot the cemetery and saw that his tombstone was one of a circle of stones of Civil war vets. Both Confederate and Union. I read his children used to come to South Bend to visit him now and then. Doyal Gudgel > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:26:11 -0800 From: Dianne To: Nancy Miller Subject: Re: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. Nancy, I find the information on the above very interesting. I suspect there was a typo in the information regarding N.T Gudgel and Nancy G wife of M.T. I bet the N.T is really M.T or vice versa. What do you think? Especially since they are next to each other--or does that really indicate they are? The Forsythe Cemetery listings are fascinating as they show Wm H (who ever he was) buried in Wash State and didn't we just try to figure out some of the Wash St Gudgels the other day? Does this help? And I see the Hon. Levin W Gudgel listed with no death date. Is that the same fellow who wrote back and forth with a Ky cousin who was also a lawyer about the family history (we have one or two of their letters don't we). The most I can figure out from it is that Andrew listed as being born 1825 and apparently his wife Elvira born 1826 were the parents of all those kids listed along with them on the stone? They are shown to have been born in the 1850s to 1860. I don't think this Andrew Gudgel is the one who bought property in Gibson and other counties in Ind from the Feds in the late 1840s and 1950, is he. If he was born in 1825 he would have been awful young to have been buying the property at that age. I have the papers that Sally Gudgel researched in the archives in D. C a few months ago. I have meant to put them on the web but was waiting until I found out more before doing it. Perhaps I should not wait. There really was not much in the file, Sally said, because he paid cash and so for some reason was not required to put down all the neat family history that is in so many of the other files. Oh, well. I guess we should be glad for what we have. Anyway, there may be several Andrews in Ind old enough to be buying land in 1840-50 and I would appreciate knowing who they are all?? Who is the Edward and Eliz Gudgel pair? Dianne G-H Anchorage From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:30:33 EDT Subject: Gudgel's on Canada Bob, you asked a while back if anyone knew of any Gudgel's in Canada. I hadn't heard of any at the time, but yesterday I ran across a picture in my files of a Bill and Maggie Gudgel from Canada. I received this picture from my Aunt Pearl "GUDGEL' BROKOFSKY, but don't know anything else about them. I hope to visit Aunt Pearl when we are in Nebraska next month, so will ask her about them. Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:56:36 EDT Subject: Gudgel's in Canada I sent the last message to soon. I went back and looked in my Aunt Pearl's files and found some information on Bill and Maggie Gudgel. Bill was the grandchild of Henry T. and Sarah Ann GUDGEL. 1 Henry Thomas GUDGEL +Sarah Ann JOHNSON 2 Henry GUDGEL (fourth child) +Candacy STARKS 3 William (Bill) GUDGEL (third child) +Maggie ?????? 4 Armond GUDGEL (Adopted) Bill was born in 1887 and died in 1967 in Nova Scotia, Canada. I have no additional information on Maggie or Armond. Armond could still be living and may have descendants living in Nova Scotia. The picture I have of Maggie appears to have been taken in the late forties or early fifties (based on her dress which could be way off), and she appears to be around fifty. If my guesses are anywhere near right, she would have been about 10 or 15 years younger than Bill. Anyone know anything else about them? Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:48:16 EDT Subject: Edward T. and Elizabeth Diane, You asked about who Edward T. and Elizabeth were in connection with the cemetery records from Gibson County, IN. I have Edward GUDGEL as the fifth child of William and Lucinda 'THURMAN' GUDGEL, making him Henry T's younger brother. He married Elizabeth BLYTHE. I had a birth date for Edward of 1835 which I got from LDS Ancestral files. I also had a note from my Aunt Pearl saying that they moved from Owensville, IN to Evansville, IN. Evansville is not in Gibson County, but is not far away. Maybe they took him back to Owensville, which is in Gibson County, for burial. Dave Gudgel From: EGudgel@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:05:34 EDT To: dmoneta@home.com Subject: Re: Andrew's first wife Mrs. George C. Reynolds 743 East Atlantic Ave Fairfield, Cal. 94533 gave me information only on first wife and Elizabeth Paul Payn. Her references are: Adele Hackett- cousin Chico Cal. Surname file. Film 1033561 and myself. Children listed include Daniel 1771 Andrew, Jr. 1773 Jacob 1775 2 Johns 1775 and John 1795 (I believe the son of Jacob) Samuel 1779 Abraham 1781 Stephen 1783 Nicholas 1783 Nicholas 1785 Henry 1787 Edward 1789 (this from film file) . Children of Elizabeth Payn were Nancy Hettie 1791 and William Feb 7 1801 my direct ancestor. Mrs. Reynolds also list children of Elijah (8) (father Jacob) Henry Thomas Gudgel (8) father William Jacob (8) father Andrew, Sr. The girls of Barbara Hoch have been listed elsewhere but I have no direct knowledge of them. Hope this helps. Ed Gudgel Fort Myers, FL. Leaving for short vacation to California Saturday back in 2 weeks. Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. Thanks to Nancy for sharing this data on the Gibson Co., In cemeteries. I have made my comments below as to those I can identify right off. Some may take a little more research. My comments will be in paranthesis. Linda Nancy wrote: >I recently received a copy of the 1998 edition of "Columbia Township, >Gibson County Indiana, Directory of Cemeteries". It lists five >cemeteries, with two of them having Gudgels in them. Since this is a new >book, thought some of you might have an interest in them, so I will copy >them without comment. I might be able to figure out who they are, but >I'm sure that Linda has a better idea of that than I do. > >>From the Montgomery cemetery: > >Gudgel, Anne 12-23-1863 01-20-1926 >(This is most likely the daughter of Dr. Edward Franklin GUDGEL b. 1923 New Berlin, OH, and Charline Frances WHITE b. 1925 WV. Also the granddaughter of William Thomas GUDGEL b, 1885 Oakland City, IN.) >Gudgel, N.T. 01-08-1837 06-24-1899 >Gudgel, Nancy wife of M T Gudgel ---- ---- (This is Nicholas T. GUDGEL , son of William GUDGEL and Lucinda THURMAN. Don't know who the wife, Nancy, was.) > >Forsythe Cemetery > >Gudgel, A.M. age 2y 11m dau of E & E 09-15-1874 >Gudgel, Thomas age 12Y 4M son of E & E 10-24-1872 >(These I believe are children of Edward Thomas GUDGEL and Elizabeth "Betsy" BLYTHE.) >Gudgel, Large Stone > Lucy F. 06-26-1850 05-18-1851 > Martha J. 07-11-1852 07-11-1853 > George M. 08-08-1856 02-23-1868 > Andrew 02-19-1825 07-23-1910 > Elvira 09-13-1826 04-20-1898 > Hon. Levin W. Son of A & E. 06-26-1850 > Dr. James E. Son of A & E 03-10-1858 > Elinorah Dau of A & E 05-10-1860 > Hon. William H. Buried at South Bend Wash. 07-18-1847 12-10-1905 > Dr. John F. Buried at Hazelton,Ind. 01-29-1849 10-05-1901 (These are all the children of Andrew GUDGEL and Elvira WALLACE-the list also includes Andrew and Elvira. You may want to add data that I have: Dates of death for: Dr. James E.- d. September 17, 1938 Cynthiana, IN Elinorah "Nora"-d. 1940 Note: I also had the date of birth of Hon. Levin Wilson GUDGEL as July 26, 1854-so that is a discrepancy). >Gudgel, Andrew W. Sgt Co A 58 Ind Inf (Don't know for sure who this is) >Gudgel, Clarrietta (Don't know who this is either). >Gudgel, Edward T. Co A 58 Ind Inf 02-05-1835 05-16-1908 >Gudgel, Elizabeth His wife 10-09-1836 04-24-1899 (This is Edward T. GUDGEL and and Elizabeth "Betsy" BLYTHE. Edward T. is the son of WIlliam GUDGEL and Lucinda THURMAN.) >Gudgel, Elvira Note: Stone not found or unreadable >(This is possibly the wife of Andrew GUDGEL. Maiden name was WALLACE. She is also listed on the family stone above if this is her). >Gudgel, George 00-00-1856 00-00-1868 (This is George Martin GUDGEL- son of Elvira WALLACE and Andrew GUDGELL). >Gudgel, John F. 00-00-1868 00-00-1933 (Don't know who this is. I have a John Fletcher GUDGEL but the dates don't match and besides he was from Bath Co., KY). >Gudgel, Margaret L. 00-00-1863 00-00-1933 (Possibly the wife of the above John F. GUDGEL?). >Gudgel, William 08-24-1886 08-02-1898 (Not sure who this is. I have lots of William GUDGEL's/GUDGELL's but the dates don't match.) Hope this helps some of you. I was able to add some dates from Nancy's data and I appreciate her taking the time to send it to the list. Thanks Nancy! >From Linda- in still dry Kentucky-probably got a total of 15 drops of rain today! Not even enough to settle the dust! Maybe tomorrow. > > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:44:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Andrew's wives In response to Edward GUDGEL's information about the wives of our old Andrew: I have corresponded with Adele Coon HACKETT over the years and Mia Fleegle has also, however, I don't believe I have met Mr. George C. REYNOLDS. About some of the children they listed: Daniel-Would love to know where they got this information. I have never been able to document any solid connection except they seemed to have been together in PA and also came to KY near the same time as Andrew. Samuel-I have never run across the name of Samuel as a child of Andrew. Strange, because my grandfather was named Samuel Madison GUDGEL and I assumed he was named for his maternal grandfather, Samuel Hutson HAWKINS. Stephen-have never seriously seen him listed as a child of Andrew, however, I have lots of data on him-mostly from Mia FLEEGLE. Nicholas and Edward-Have never made a connection of them being children of Andrew. Elijah-Only once have I seen reference of him being a son of Andrew and that was in Robert Turman's Genealogy Newspaper Clippings (a publication from Gibson Co., IN). I truly believe this was in error. I state this because I distinctly remember the family-including my father- talk about old Jake and Jake- Old Jake was Jacob, son of old Andrew- and Jake was Jacob, the grandson of old Jake. It was like this: Andrew Jacob (a/k/a old Jake)-Mar. Drucilla DRISKELL Elijah-Marr. Lydia BELL Jacob Madison GUDGEL (a/k/a Jake)-Marr. Frances GRIFFEY With all of these discrepancies I also wonder about the WOODFILL boys marrying the 3 GUDGEL girls. Strange we have not made concrete connections or even run across them before Daniela told us about them. Someday we will surely get this straight . This has been my two cents for what it's worth! Linda Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:04:27 -0700 From: Nancy Miller Subject: Gibson Co. Cemeteries Thanks Linda for taking the time to try and identify those buried in Columbia Township. There obviously have been errors, and we don't know whether it was in the original stone, in the copying of data at the cemetery, or with the typest. I rather gathered that they took a new look and then checked it against an old listing, thus the "Stone not found or unreadable" I agree that the birth date for Levin GUDGEL must be wrong, if you will note it is the same exactly as for Lucy F. Lucy shows up on the 1850 census as age 1/12, but Levin doesn't show until 1860 when he is listed as age 6, which figures with the birth date you had. (I have typescripts of the 1850, 60, and 70 census of Gibson Co. if any of you need a lookup) The only other one that I might be able to identify is John F. He shows up in Columbia Twp. in the 1870 census as age 3, in the family of Edward and Elisabeth Gudgel. Nancy Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:06:30 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Dianne CC: Nancy Miller , Gudgel-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. Dianne wrote: > The Forsythe Cemetery listings are fascinating as they show Wm H > (who ever he was) buried in Wash State and didn't we just try to > figure out some of the Wash St Gudgels the other day? I posted a short piece on William H from Indiana. He had no family here in Washington state. He was running from a bad marriage apparently. Or perhaps something related to politics there in Evanston. Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:39:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL Cemeteries-Gibson Co., IN Hi everybody- I have a little bit more info. on Nancy's list of cemeteries in Gibson Co., IN: Forsythe Cemetery- The John F. GUDGEL 1868-1933 This is John Franklin GUDGEL b. Jan. 15, 1868 Gibson Co., IN, d. April 5, 1933 Gibson Co., IN, son of Edward T. GUDGEL and Elizabeth "Betsy" BLYTHE. John Marr. July 12, 1899 to Margaret (Margot) Lyceda KENNEDY b. July 5, 1863, d. April 7, 1933 Gibson Co., IN. So this explains who the Margaret L. GUDGEL is that follows the listing of John Franklin GUDGEL. Do any of you have burial records from any of the Jefferson Co., IN GUDGEL's? Also-did we figure out who the WIlliam and Maggie GUDGEL were from Canada? Linda from still dry in KY- got about 50 rain drops this a.m.-Maybe tomorrow. Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:51:45 -0400 (EDT) To: Ralph Johnson From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Gudgel's/Cemeteries/Gibson Co. Doyle- Please teel us more about William H. Linda At 12:06 PM 9/18/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Dianne wrote: > >> The Forsythe Cemetery listings are fascinating as they show Wm H >> (who ever he was) buried in Wash State and didn't we just try to >> figure out some of the Wash St Gudgels the other day? > >I posted a short piece on William H from Indiana. He had no family >here in Washington state. He was running from a bad marriage >apparently. Or perhaps something related to politics there in >Evanston. > > > > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: WOODFILL QUERY Something of interest for the WOODFILL researchers. Linda Jefferson County In. Query Forum HOPPER, COPELAND, BRINSON, CUSTER, WOODFILL Posted by Ruth Hoggatt on Wed, 19 Aug 1998, in response to HOPPER, posted by James Copeland on Wed, 19 Aug 1998 Surnames: I am not a descendant of the HOPPER family, but have info. from my grandfather's first cousin, John R. HOUSEFIELD who was the son of Charles F. HOUSEFIELD and Nancy A. KISER. The following is from John R. Housefield's papers. "Moses and Elizabeth HOPPER were the parents of great grandmother Emily (HOPPER) LAME. Her sisters and brothers were William, John, Sally, Smallwood, Cassie, Cynthia, Lavina, Eliza and James who was a twin to great grandmother Emily Hopper Sally Hopper was married to Thomas COPELAND. They were the parents of 4 children John Moses Woodie and Eliza. John was married to Elizabeth ROBBINS. Their children were William (Bill), John, Sally (HAND), Betty (STEVENSON), Thomas, Eliza (AUGUSTINE), Matty, Margaret (HAND), Jane (YOST), Aaron and Elijah. (William the father of Ed, Charlie, Dan). Moses COPELAND was married to Mary KISER (a sister of William KISER our grand dad) Their children were Taylor, Mary, Sarah and Woodie. Woodie COPELAND was married to Mary FIRTH. Their children were Frank, Willie and Mae. We know nothing about Eliza COPELAND. Cynthia HOPPER married James DENNY. They were the parents of seven children. Thomas, Cassie, Elizabeth, James, Mary, Sally, John W. (Note: Jon, Jim and J.W. is written in the margin). Thomas was the father of Mary (BRINSON) John J, Charlotte (MILLER) Anna (DILK) Sarah (MURPHY) Tillie (SPANN). James and wife Eliza (HYATT) had no children but raised James STORMS a nephew of his and George LEE a nephew of hers. All Sisters: Cassie DENNY, (daughter of Cynthia HOPPER) was married to Jim BURTON. They were the parents of Cynthia SMITH mother of Chas Smith Jerry George and one Daughter married a CONOVER nic name BUNK(?) Elizabeth DENNY (daughter of Cynthia HOPPER) was married to Ruel CUSTER. They were the parents of Clarence CUSTER also James Jessie and John CUSTER. Mary DENNY was married to James EVERSON Sally DENNY was married to ?? MORRISON daughters of Cynthia & James DENNY -------- John W. and wife Victoria (KING) They were the parents of Charley, George, Frank, Fred & Ella. They also raised Will DENNY who was an orphan boy by the name of TOMPKINS. He was later adopted by Thomas DENNY. Cassie HOPPER was married to Barney SMITH. They were the parents of five children. Cynthia, Elizabeth, Emma, Sarah & Vianna. Cynthia was married to Samuel SOLLIE. Their children were John, Daniel, Kate, Emma & Eliza. Elizabeth was married to George MYERS. Their children John Edward Allen Mary & Lucindia. Emma was married to George KESLER. Their children Barney Kate Cynthia & Elizabeth. Sarah was married to Geroge TRINKLER. Their children Louis Henry George Edward & Mary who married a SHAFER. Vianna was married to ____ OVERLY. Their children Anna Kate Albert & Marlin. Lavina HOPPER was married to Conrad STORMS. They were the parents of 5 children Conrad, Emily, Sally, Jane and Cynthia. Conrad was married to Leah WOODFILL. They were the parents of five children Mary Annie Emma Samuel and James. Mary to Sam ALLSTOTT Anna to ___ HOEFLING Emma to Charles BRINSON Samuel to Nancy? NEWKIRK James to Ida DILK Emily STORMS was married to Jarred WOODFILL Sally to Charles CRAWFORD Jane to John WOODFILL Cynthia to James STEVENSON Nothing is known about the HOPPER brothers or their familys". Jefferson County In. Query Forum [ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index (Use 'Back' if from a search list) ] [ Previous | Previous in Thread | Next in Thread | Next ] RITCHEY, JOHNSON, MCHENRY, JINES Posted by Jim Ritchey on Fri, 28 Aug 1998, in response to HOPPER, COPELAND, BRINSON, CUSTER, WOODFILL, posted by Ruth Hoggatt on Wed, 19 Aug 1998 Surnames: The map of the Jefferson Proving Ground in Jefferson County, Indiana shows a WOODFILL road that intersects a JINES road. I surmise that the WOODFILL and JINES families must have been neighbors relatively early in Jefferson County history, or perhaps somehow related. Other surnames in my geneology are: RITCHEY, JOHNSON, and MCHENRY. My cousin Fauna RITCHEY MIHALKO prepared a family geneology while working several years at the Madison Public Library; it is my understanding that much of this research material was given by her children to the Historical Society. Any responses will be appreciated. From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:53:04 EDT Subject: N.T. Gudgel I don't know if it is the same person or not, or even if the data are correct, but I show a Nicholas Gudgel as the seventh child of William and Lucy 'THURMAN' GUDGEL with a birth date of 1837. The Cemetery records show N.T. Gudgel being born on January 08, 1837, so it could be one and the same. Wouldn't bet on it though. I got the name from my Aunt Pearl and both the name and birth year from LDS Ancestral files. Aunt Pearl's files also indicate that Nicholas relocated from Owensville, IN to near Oakland City, IN at some point in his life. Not a big move since the two are only 20 or 25 miles apart and they are both in Gibson County. Dave Gudgel Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:53:20 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: N.T. Gudgel Gudgeld@aol.com wrote: > I don't know if it is the same person or not, or even if the data are correct, > but I show a Nicholas Gudgel as the seventh child of William and Lucy > 'THURMAN' GUDGEL with a birth date of 1837. The Cemetery records show N.T. > Gudgel being born on January 08, 1837, so it could be one and the same. > Wouldn't bet on it though. I got the name from my Aunt Pearl and both the > name and birth year from LDS Ancestral files. Aunt Pearl's files also > indicate that Nicholas relocated from Owensville, IN to near Oakland City, IN > at some point in his life. Not a big move since the two are only 20 or 25 > miles apart and they are both in Gibson County. > > Dave Gudgel I haven't been in on the previous conversation but this Nickolas Gudgel was a Civil War Vet. Spent lots of time in the war. I have a picture of him and his military and pension records. Doyal PS How much does it cost to request a record from the National Archives these days? When I was into requesting records it cost a dollar. Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:03:06 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Information Wanted I received a phone call yesterday from Shirley Denny who found a letter of mine to her husbands mother Elma Denny I had written in 1972. She and her husband Walton Denny are no interested in genealogy and want information on the Gudgel line. The reason I am asking is because of the wealth of information from this group I was wondering if anyone had something organized in such a way it could be printed out and sent to her? She lives in Irving Texas and there might be someone in the area that could talk to her directly. and not long distance. Shirley Denny 301 Hanover Lane Irving Ts 75062 972 717 5424 Anyone who has a suggestion on how to go about this would appreciated. Mine isn't organized in such a manner that makes it convenient to give it to her. thanks Doyal Gudgel Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:08:32 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Getting acquainted Someone wanted to get more acquainted. OK now is your chance. You can get part of my lifes story by going to my webpage at http://www.users.uswest.net/~ralphj. Because of it's graphics and length I do not think it advisable to send it by email. Enjoy Doyal Gudgel (thats with an "a") Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:22:27 -0800 From: Dianne To: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Denny family Does anyone know how the above Denny family is related to Gudgels? I know WAY back, Lydia Denny married Stephen G (right?) (line in the mid-late 1700s.) Dianne Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:00:01 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Dianne Subject: Re: Denny family Dianne wrote: > Does anyone know how the above Denny family is related to > Gudgels? I know WAY back, Lydia Denny married Stephen G (right?) > (line in the mid-late 1700s.) > > Dianne Elma Denny was the mther of Walton Denny who lives in Irving Texas and his wife Shirley called me about genealogy information. Emas was a Gudgel and married a son of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel. Cant remember Elma's husbands name. I'll look it up after dinner at Old Country Buffet, Doyal Gudgel To: "Dianne" , "Ralph Johnson" Subject: Re: Denny family Lydia Denny, daughter of Benjamin Denny of Queen Anne / Talbot County, MD, and Stephen Gudgeon (1707-1780), son of Thomas I and Mary [?] Gudgeon, are said to be the parents of Andrew Gudgel who left Maryland and went to Pennsylvania. The book "Gudgeon's in America" gives this information. I still am not sure that it has ever been proven or disproven. The Gudgeon family is traced back to England - the immigrant was Robert Gudgeon (1615-1681) who indentured himself to come to America and then indentured himself for another 7 years to bring his wife Christina over. There are records of this at the Maryland Archives. The Gudgeons are known to have lived in Weedenbeck, Northampton, England. Stephen Gudgeon and Lydia Denny are my 6x g-grandparents; my line comes down through their son William (1741-?) and Mary Snow. Kathryn ---------- : From: Dianne : To: Ralph Johnson : Cc: gudgel-list@eskimo.com : Subject: Re: Denny family : Date: 19 September, 1998 2:22 PM : : Does anyone know how the above Denny family is related to : Gudgels? I know WAY back, Lydia Denny married Stephen G (right?) : (line in the mid-late 1700s.) : : Dianne Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:27:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEON stuff from the net Hi everybody- I have been gone all day working the local Fall Festival at a booth for the Historical Society here, so I am beat. Time to hit the shower and turn in :) Wanted to leave this for you first- I did a net search for GUDGEON and 2 things turned up that might be interesting to some of you. Ric GUDGEON Home Page mentiones Stephen GUDGEON and Lydia DENNY. Ric was b. Amarillo, TX but now resides in or near Cleveland, OH. He gives his lineage if you want to check it out. It's a really long address at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ric_gudgeon/gudgeon.htm The other thing i found was a page about a ship called the USS GUDGEON which was launched in 1941 and Lost in 1944. Some good reading. check it out at: http://www.subnet.com/FLEET/ss211.htm (211-all numbers) or for a picture of the ship: http://www.subnet.com/MEMORIAL/mf211.htm Good night all, Linda From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:38:41 -0700 Subject: books books we need a web page >From Doyal Gudgel Read the autobiography of my wife of our boat trip to Ketchikan to fish. Funny I put out the request on how and where to get some information on the Gudgel line for Shirley Denny of Irving TX. (BTW anyone near Dallas?)I've saved reams of email letters and data. Like everyone else. Picking out something for her is a big job. Too many sources. This brings to mind the thought that a book on the Gudgel's would be the solution. However that is not practical at the moment as we are getting more and more information all the time. Would change too fast. A book is needed because it saves the information for posterity. Web pages come and go. Books are for a long time. Computers crash. (Present day books last about 100 years) A web page dedicated to Gudgel's would be the solution as it could be updated constantly. Bob Gudgel of eskimo has a web page with information but it has what he has the time to put on it. He hasn't asked for everyone to send material on their line. If we could get a web page for Gudgel's only we then would need an editor. Of course we also would need a program for the page. I do not know anything about Genealogy programs. I haven't checked other genealogy web pages very extensively but it seems like they are using programs created to assemble genealogy data on the internet. I think we are missing a lot of information because it is not organized. We post our information to the list but that is about as far as it goes. We have about 30 people doing the same thing to the data if they do it at all. If you are like me most of it only gets filed and I couldn't find it if my life depended upon it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this subject. I could dedicate some time to a project of this nature. GEO cities has free webpages I hear. Other sites may also have free web pages. From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:11:36 -0700 Subject: Gudgel,Gudshall, Gridshall, >From Doyal Gudgel \According to my calculations there are 30,891,577 ways to spell Gudgel -- Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Web page What do you mean here? I've asked people for GEDCOM files of their line because at present it is the best form for this stuff. But then again, we have decided to NOT make all of those files generally publicly readable because of information about people still living. The Gudgel web page also asks for input and information to add to the site. I think I've also mentioned it on the mail list. However, an extra web site couldn't hurt. As far as time goes, as soon as something neat comes up, I immediately try to put it up on the page. Of course, there is limited space, but I only pay an extra $1.00 per month for an extra 10 megabytes. Remember that all this great information from this mail list is also on the web site in an archive as soon as it is posted (almost 1 megabyte now). This mail list is a kind of searchable data base in itself, that is being on a computer. Bob >Bob Gudgel of eskimo has a web page with information but it has what he >has the time to put on it. He hasn't asked for everyone to send material >on their line. If we could get a web page for Gudgel's only we then would >need an editor. Of course we also would need a program for the page. I From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:18:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Web page >From Doyal Gudgel Sorry son! What Iasked for may not be needed. I probably don't understand the situation. Walton Elma Denny, mother was Mary Agnes (molly) Husband Benjamin Harris, Gudgel Thomas Jefferson Father of Mary Agnes. Bob Gudgel wrote: > > What do you mean here? I've asked people for GEDCOM files of their > line because at present it is the best form for this stuff. But then Didn't want to downgrade your efforts. Isn't there a program specifically created for keeping Genealogy information? I'll take a look at your web page and see if it is satisfactory for acquiring the information I need for Shirley Denny Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:14:08 -0800 From: Dianne To: kestuart@coshocton.com Subject: Re: Denny family Yes, I have run across the books stating that Andrew Gudgel was a son of Lydia Denny and Stephen Gudgeon and I've seen the Fayette Co, PA history book by Ellis showing the name Gudgel next to Gudgeon in parenthesis, but I am quite sure that part of the genealogy is incorrect. Things simply don't add up when we see who they've listed as other children of Lydia and Stephen. Many of our researchers have found their kids elsehwhere and related in a different way. But anyway, I was just wondering about this current Denny person and how the relation to Gudgel went, and Doyal just explained that in his note. Interesting. Dianne Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:27:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL List and Page Bob- I have been away from my computer most of the weekend but have tried to catch up tonight. Before we go any further I will be the first to "Sing Your Praises" about the fine job you have done with out GUDGEL Homepage and putting the mail list together. Look how far we have come since (was it April?) when we began. So much data has been collected from so many of you and each piece is important no matter how small. I have had the same thoughts about how we could organize this data also. It would take one person designated to enter documented data to get it right I think. We have lots of data from lots of sources and not all of it is documented information - including some from me that has been heresay or handed down from family members, etc. We all try to be accurate but sometimes we get to assuming without even realizing it. The only way I can see it benefitting us is if it were set up to be only documented data that was entered, and that would be a huge task for anyone. I use Family Tree Maker myself now after years of using Brothers Keeper, but I don't have the time to take on this type of project even if I wanted to. Someday I do hope to write a book even if it turns out to be just for specific lines--but that won't be for a long while-at least till I retire. I am just thankful for each of you who contrubite in any way. I researched a long time by myself and I like having this newly found "family". We are stronger in numbers. Linda From: ralphj@uswest.net To: Bob Gudgel Subject: Re: Genealogy programs and web search >From Doyal Gudgel Bob Gudgel wrote: > > Family Tree Maker and Family Origins by Parsons/Broderbund > are a couple programs that are specifically designed for > family tree type stuff. They also generate and read > what they call "GEDCOM" files, which are evidently a standard > for file transfer for programs of this type. This is what > I put on the web site. There is also a web site that is clickable > somewhere on the gudgel page to www.familytreemaker.com > As far as searching for information that has been posted to > this mail list, you go the the gudgel web page, then to > the mail list page, and you will find the mail list archives > there. There are 2 (two) archive files right now because it > is getting too big for one file. I hope to divide it up > into months eventually. There is also a zip version which > is not always up to date but the main archive is updated > automatically whenever someone posts to the list. > To find something on the archive, just use the "search" or > "find" feature of your browser to find the keywords of what > you are looking for. It's that simple, except that the > files are getting big and there is getting to be a lot > of information. What I was looking for were references to several people descendents of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel. It is easy to find any word in the archive. Getting it out and into print is another matter for me. With all letters in one file it is impossible to print out just the little part you want. At least that is the extent of my knowledge of how to do it. To get out of the archive and print it out I will have to download it into a file then use a word processor to select the part I want. Netscape browser does not have that option as far as I know. If each letter could be saved separately then it would be possible. Another less than desirable option would be to select the desired text then put it in the body of an email then send it to myself. I don't think too much of that but it would be one way. Doyal From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:50:12 -0700 Subject: How to >From Doyal Gudgel Maybe Bob has a suggestion on how to get the information out of the archives without changing the system. He is the expert in these matters. Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:06:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: How To One thing that can be done with most any windows program such as netscape or internet explorer, is to also have some word processor open at the same time as netscape, highlight (with the mouse) the text you want, and press Control-C to "copy" that highlighted text into the windows clipboard. Then, you ALT-TAB over to WORD or whatever and press control-V or whatever you type to "paste" the text in. Do that however many times you want. Windows 95 is real good for that type of stuff. Win 3.1 also works. Bob Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:44:25 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Web page >From Doyal Gudgel Someone straighten me out of this. We have lots of information in the archives at Bob's home page. Problem is getting to it in an organized manner. Reliability is another thing of course. I looked for information on Thomas Jefferson Gudgel. Found a little but not in such a way that allows me to make connection between different individuals. Found some errors too. What and where is the program that we can put the information in so the connections to family groups is clear? How much is the program? (a lot I bet) Maybe we should consider getting it into the program. I would volunteer to spend some time on it. Don't know about the cost as right at the moment I'm financially challenged. :-) Getting this into a form we can check the reliability is another important factor. In a form that anyone who looks at it can challenge the data is one way of confirming the source and accuracy. A real good way to get better information Would also allow someone in living in an area who can go to the Court house or whatever to make an actual check would be real convenient. I noticed that in the letter from Linda she repeated the error that Henry T Gudgel was buried at Pine Bluff Ark. I sent out a correction but that did not correct the original letter of hers. It's still there and everywhere else who received and recorded it. Now information goes into the archives and it is difficult for everyone to check and verify. This program does not have to be on Bobs home page. If it did he would have to maintain it of course. I have another year just paid up at eskimo so could put it there. This would not demising the importance of the Gudgel list or archives as it would be only for this particular job. If we have a central file everyone can contribute and check the accuracy. I don't think this reduces the need or importance of Bob's home page or the gudgel-list of course. We have to remember his contribution. He really make saving what information in the archives easy for me. My method was awkward and hard to use. But as I said if you want information go to Bob. . Doyal Gudgel If you can make sense of this let the list know your thoughts. Doyal Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:48:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: archives, errors, and programs I think that when errors are found, a posting to the mail list should be made in correcting it. The original erroneous error(s) should also stay in the archive, I think, because that documents those errors for future reference. When multiple errors of the same kind are documented, it might also help in nipping further errors by showing where and when the errors occurred. When correcting errors, maybe we should make sure we use the word "error" so that we can make a list of errors. When someone wants to use the archives for some kind of research, they are most likely looking for one or two particular aspects of this information, and not everything at once, which makes the whole thing more useful. The truth, if there, should show up. As for programs, family tree maker is available at Costco for around $70 which comes with several CDs full of information. Now, some of these GEDCOM files available make a good starting point for anyone wanting to document their line. In my case, or my dad's case (Doyal's), the one from Kim Gudgel is a good place to start because it has everyone in the line up to him and I think his uncles. Eventually, after many of us have entered our branches, All these GEDCOM files could be (theoretically) all be put together into one big Gudgel Familytreemaker or GEDCOM file and we could all see our relationship pretty easy. It would be a very big file, but something that would easily fit on a CDR. Actually, this kind of stuff zips down to fairly small files because it is just text. The program itself (familytreemaker) should not be on the web site though, since that would not be legal. By the way, Family Tree Maker also allows for the addition of pictures to anyone on the tree. That would be neat to see the physical similarity of people of a branch or between branches. It would be neat to have enough information to almost fill a CD (650 Megabytes or so). Bob Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:10:09 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Bob Gudgel Subject: Re: archives, errors, and programs Bob Gudgel wrote: > I think that when errors are found, a posting to the mail list > should be made in correcting it. The problem with this is only those who read it are going to actually make the correction. Further they must read and correct. If there are 30 or so on this list 30 people must correct their records. Otherwise this information is still floating around maintainng the error. If there is one source then it can be used as a reference. Family treemaker doesn't have to be on the web just the results. Still something to think about. Doyal Gudgel Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: THE GODSHALK (ETC.) FAMILY IN AMERICA-SEGMENT 12 >From "The Pennsylvania Archives", 3rd Series, Vol. 1, page 431--The administrators of Jacob GODSHALK, deceased, enter a land case against William PLUNKET?, who claims that in 1769 300 acres of land on Penns Creek Northward of Edward Lees and joining land of Harris, Turner Doran and Smith, were taken out by Harris. GODSHALK claims that in 1766 300 acres of land at the Crab tree bottom and running down the creek to Charles Stewart's claim were taken out by him. Page 606--Garret GOTSHALK claimed 48 acres in Salford or Franconia Twp., Montgomery Co., in 1788. ======================================================================== From: "Baptismal Records of Jerusalem Lutheran and Reformed Church in Albany Twp., Berks Co., PA" Fridr. GOTTSCHALL and his wife, Cathar. were the parents of Christina, born October 31, 1793, baptised April 20, 1794, her godparents were John Neuford and Elisab. GOTTCHALLIN ("in" denotes Miss). ------------------------------------------------------------------------From : Rietstap's "armorial General" the following data is on crests issued to members of the family. It is copied exactly as shown in Vol. 1, page 805) GOTTSCHALCK--Saxe (An., 7, oct. 1752 at 3 dec. 1804) Ec.:aux 1 et 4 d'arg. a une grue de gu., avec sa vigilance d'or; au 2 d'azur a quatre bes. d'or, 2 et 2; au 3 d'azur a trois bes, d'or; 2 at 1. C, : la grue. D'arg. et d'or. GOTTSCHALK--Prusse. D'arg. a trois pommes de grenade d'or, ouv. de gu. GOTTSCHALL--Bav. (Nob. de St.-Empire, 10 sept. 1745) Les armes de Sreniawa. Deux cq. cour. Page 29 C.: I uns.crois latine d'arg.; entre deux prob, coupees alt. de gu. et d'arg.; 2* un lion iss. d'or, entre deux bannieres d'azur, ch. chacune d'une tete de lion d'or celle a son, cont. GOTTSCHALL--Leipzig. (Nob. de Prusse, 1878.) Parti: au 1 de gu. a une epee et une houlette, passees en saut., 1'epee ayant la pointe an bas, et deux masques (tragique et comique) d'arg., s'entretouchant, et br. sur les autres meubles; au 2 d'azur a une lyre antique meubles; au 2 d'azur a une lyre antique d'or le pied entoure d'une couronne de laurier de sin., en barre, Cq. cour. C.: un vol. de gu. et d'asur, chawue aile ch. d'un chicot d'arg., pose en pal. L.: a dextre d'arg. et de gu., a sem. d'or et d'azur. (note from Linda-Have no idea what this is but am glad it's over :) ======================================================================== Color Code for crests: dots--gold blank spaces--silver horizontal lines--blue vertical lines--red \\\\\--green ======================================================================== From: the magazine, "The Maryland and Delaware Genealogist"--In the will of Garrarg Brown made July 7, 1676, he says "to John GODSHALL, my Susquehanna Gun". This was in Charles Co., Maryland. ======================================================================== From: the pamphlet, "Early Lancaster Co., PA Tax Lists"-- [age 7 Petter GOTSHAL paid 2 shillings tax in 1751 in Lampeter Twp. ======================================================================== From: Biographical Cyclopedia of Schuylkill Co., PA"--Joel GODSHALL was in Co. A, 50th Regt; George GOTTSCHALL was a provate in company H, 184th Regt.; Henry GOTTSHALL was a private in Co. D, 48th Regt. In the same regiment in Co. E was Martin GUTSCHALL; Henry GOTSHALL was wounded in the Battle of Bull Run Page 30 All in the Civil War. In a sketch on Joseph Woll, who was born in Pottsville in 1853 (son of Peter Woll), it mentions that his sister, Elizabeth, married Lewis GOTTSCHALL, of Pottsville; in the hotel and bottling business. A sketch on George Teter who was married in 1852, mentions that his daughter, Kate, married Benjamin GODSHALL, a fireman on the Philadelphia and Reading RR, and a resident of Ringgold. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Additional Tax Records: From: "The Pennsylvania Archives". 3rd Series--volume 16--page 655--1783--Philadelphis Co--Skippack Twp.--Jacob GOTSHALK, 20 a, 2 c. page 236--Skippack Twp.--1782--Jacob GODSHALK, 113 pounds valuation, 0.17.9 tax. page 34--Skippack Twp.==1781--Jacob GODSHALK,farmer, 1.1.7 tax. (He appears on the 1774 list here but does not appear on the 1769 list). Volume 14--page 208--1769--Philadelphia City-Mulberry Ward--Jacob GODSHALK, 1 horse, 1 servant, 20.1.4 tax and Jacob GODSHALK, sadler, 2.0.0 tax. page 286--1774--Mulberry Ward--Jacob GOTSHALK, clockmaker, 12.9.0 tax. ======================================================================== This is the final segment in this series. I don't know that this data will be of use to us, but at least it has shown us that this family was very prevalent in the early days of Pennsylvania. At least more so than I thought. Two things I wanted to point out in this final segment: In the first paragraph it mentions land on Penn's Creek in a PA. deed... it also mentions a connecting landowner by the name of DORAN. For those who have seen the Land Trial records from Woodford Co., KY in which A our old Andrew lost his land, the suit was against a Patrick DORAN. I have also seen his name in land records in Mercer Co., KY. It seems Mr. DORAN was the owner of lots of land in Kentucky-as large as 3,000 acres each that I have seen deeds for. Just thought I'd point this name out-may be useful later. The second thing I wanted to point out- The data about the description of the coat of arms (or crests)-does anyone know if this is German, or Latin or French? Can anyone read it? Maybe French-but it is typed as is. That's all for now. Linda From: "Mia K. Fleegel" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:09:09 EDT Subject: Andrew Gudgel (b.1809,KY) 1st wife I believe wife #1 was Elizabeth Staples whom he married in Jefferson Co., IN on September 27, 1832. Here is the evidence I have for wife #1: 1. Jefferson County Circuit Court, Madison Indiana "Marriage Returns 1831-1836" page 38, number 117 states - ". . .These are therefore to lisinse & permit you to join together in the holy state of matrimony Andrew Gudgel and Elizabeth Sample. . . In Testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and the seal of the county aforesaid at Madison this 23rd Sept. 1832 R.C. Talbott Clerk" 2. Civil War Pension Record of John Gudgel, son of Andrew Gudgel. A certified copy of the marriage between Andrew Gudgel and Elizabeth Staples is included. It includes the date of the license as Sept. 23, 1832 by R.C. Talbot, Clerk and the following statement: "I do hereby certify, that I did on the 27 day of September 1832 join together as Husband and Wife, Andrew Gudgel and Elizabeth Staples. . .Dennis Willey, M.G." 3. Civil War Pension Record of Calvin Gudgel, son of Andrew Gudgel contains the following document: The State of Texas ) County of Grayson ) Before me the undersigned authority this day personally apperaed, Calvin Gudgel, personally known to me, and who being duly sworn deposes and says, that his mother Betsy Gudgel, died as he has been told, in the year of about 1847, and that he was about three years old at the date of her death; and that the members of his family who were living, from June, 1850, to 1860, were as follows,; Father Andy Gudgel, and Step-Mother, Betsey Gudgel. (whose given name was the same as my own mother), Sisters as follows, Rebecca Jane Gudgel, and Evelin Gudgel, and brothers as follows, Marion Gudgel, John Gudgel, and Allen Gudgel. After my own mother's death, in about 1847, I lived with my uncle Sam Staples, who lived in Adams county, Ill. Carthage was his Post Office, untill about 1851 at which time my father Andy Gudgel, married the second time, and took me home to live with him. My Father Andy Gudgel, lived in Hancock county Ill. at the date of his second marriage, his Post Office, at that time was Chilie, Ill. In about 1853 my father moved to Pike Co., Ill. near the line of Adams county, at which place Payton [Payson] was his Post Office, and that was my home untill 1860, and for several years thereafter. These statements are made from memory, as there never was any Bible, or Church, record of the family that i ever knew of, and the date of my birth was given me by my oldest sister Rebecca Jane Gudgel. Calvin Gudgel [his signature] Sworn and subscribed to before me the undersigned this the 22" day of February A.D. 1915 E.A. Wright Notray Public in and for Grayson County Texas. My commission expires June the first 1915. MY COMMENTS: I believe it was Elizabeth Staples that Andrew married on September 27, 1832. The first source was probably copied from the original and a mistake was made. There were both Sample and Staples families living in Jefferson County at the time. The next two sources are more reliable. The certified copy, in the pension file was probably verified by Andrew himself and Calvin mentions going to live with his uncle Sam Staples - probably Elizabeth's brother. As to the death of Elizabeth Staples, Calvin mentions from memory that she died in 1847 but I have two sources that say June, 1849: 1. 1850 Mortality Schedule Hancock County, Illinois Page 316, line 4 Name: Elizabeth Gudgel Age: 34 Born: Indiana Died: June, 1849 Cause: Childbirth Ill: One Day A certified copy from the Civil War Application of Andrew Gudgel for father's survivor benefits following the death of his son, Andrew. The handwriting is a bit difficult to read and some words were hard to decipher. I have put those words in brackets [ ]. State of Illinois Circuit Of Adams Rebecca P. Jessup and Eleanor Cox -[each] first duly sworn depose and say that -of their own personal knoweledge they are able to testify that Andrew Gudgel is the father of John W. Gudgel, decd, late a privat in Co. H, 99th Regt., Ills Ind. Vols and that the said John W. Gudgel left surviving him so widow, child or children and no mother. [ Neal?-s] mother Elizabeth Gudgel died in Adams County, Ills, on the 29th day of June ss 1849. Affients further state that they have no interest, direct of indirect in the [execution] of this claim for pension. Rebecca P. Jessup Eleanor Cox Subscribed and sworn to before me this 8th day of October ss 1860 and I certify that affiants are credible witnesses and their signatures genuine and that I have no interest in the [execution] of this claim for Pesnsion. R. L Hinckley, J.P (seal) Mia Fleegel From: "Mia K. Fleegel" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:13:20 EDT Subject: Andrew Gudgel (b.1809,KY) 2nd wife The best evidence I have is that Elmer Gudgel (grandson of Andrew, b.1809) told me that his grandmothers name was Betsy Shaner. My grandfather, son of Phoebe Ellen Gudgel said she had a picture of a male Shaner and he was called the "dirty Dutchman". My grandfather thought the family was from the Netherlands. Hancock County Clerk Records #1537 Andrew Gudgel married Mrs. Elizabeth Miller on 11 February 1850 at Carthage in Hancock County, Illinois. Filed 14 Feb. 1850, License 11 Feb. 1850, Marriage 11 Feb. 1850 by W.B. Atkinson, M.G. The 1850 Federal Census shows: 1850 Federal Census Hancock County, Illinois page 421, lines 15-24 2156/2163 GUDGEL,Andrew 41 Farmer KY Elizabeth 28 OH MILLER,Lovina C. 8 OH Shanon A. 1 IL GUDGEL,Francis M. 17 IN Rebecca I. 15 IN John W. 13 IN Allen 11 IN Eveline 7 IL Calvin 4 IL Taken November 17, 1850 I believe that her name was Elizabeth Shaner but have no proof of her last name. She was born about 1822 in Ohio. She was previously married to a Mr. Miller and had at least two children by him. I don't know when she died but her 3 children by Andrew were small - probably around 1865. I would love to know more about her! Mia K. Fleegel From: Bob Gudgel Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: undeliverable mail Is anyone close to Csky10@aol.com (Scott) or chuck@vivid.net ? Their email has bounced for some reason. (says they don't have a mail box). I'll re-enstate them in a day or two and see if their service has returned, but if anyone knows anything, please let them or I know. Thanks, Bob Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL HISTORY-1969 Edition-Segment #1 There has been mention of some of you looking for more information on Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL and I thought I would share with you a document I received from Jennette GUDGEL of St. Paul, MN. The History was written by Opal GUDGEL in 1969. It is quite lengthy but I feel it should be included in the GUDGEL mail list archives for future researchers. I have several histories from different lines that I will submit as time permits but I will begin with this one and do it in segments as I have before. Please note that at some points I find data that I believe may be questionable and at that point I will enter my comments in paranthesis, or at least comments that I can easily retrieve. This History is being submitted as I received it. Linda ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GUDGEL HISTORY 1969 EDITION The porpose of compiling and making written record of the GUDGEL family is to show this generation, and those to follow, that they have been given an honorable name, one they need never be ashamed of. Also, to show that a long line of hardy pioneer lineage has preceeded them, that the spirit that has made America a strong democratic nation is their heritage. For these reasons a record should be kept, adding to it with each succeeding generation. We would like to implore them to keep this heritage alive and guard it with diligence, and when the torch is handed on down to the succeeding generation let it be clean and bright. The name "GUDGEL" is legend to have been "Gott Sheld", meaning "God protected", or "Man of God". (The true meaning is hard to define exactly since it was in old 'old German', but all agreed the meaning was similiar. The name we now use was started in later part of the 18th century. For a short time it was spelled "GUDGELL", but one of the L's was dropped by the second generation by those of our lineage. Thus, all GUDGEL's are related as the name is only about six generations long. Let a man be thankful for a good name and guard it with the same care he would guard a precious jewel. "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches..." Proverbs 22:1. Neither is a man's life measured by the length of it, but the well spending. Page 2 ANDREW GUDGEL, born 1727 in Germany, is legend to have come to the United States when a lad of 17. He came with a dream of making a fortune in the New World, a;so, to avade the draft being imposed at that time by Bismark, who was trying to conquer Europe. Andrew first settled in Pennsylvania but followed Daniel Boone into Kentucky in (or near) 1785. Possibly at this time he was now living with his third wife, the first two had died, and had seventeen children, the last three by his third wife, these were born in Kentucky. They settled on Silver Creek (actually we now know it was Glen's Creek), between Lexington and Frankford (Frankfort), and there set up a grist mill which was powered by the water of this creek. When Kentucky became a state no title of ownership by these early settlers was recognized (not so-deed were very common, however, boundaries of ownership were questionable) and Andrew GUDGEL lost his place which contained over 600 acres with a grist mill. The GUDGEL family now moved to Indiana, in 1811, and took up land in the big timber country about two miles east of where Owensville is now located, and there they build a cabin out of logs, a portion of this cabin was still standing in 1955. Andrew's third wife's maiden name was Elizabeth KANE (not so-her maiden name was possiblly PAUL and her first married name was PAYN(E), to them was born Nancy, who married William P. TEEL; Hetty, who married Harrison McGARY. The last child and only son to Andrew and Elizabeth was William, we have no record of any of the other seventeen children born to Andrew and one of his former two wives. (we do now-note this article says 17 children BEFORE the last three were born). Andrew GUDGEL died 16 August 1815 and his wife, Elizabeth, died 21 Dec. 1823. They were buried on the old home place, together with some of the TEEL family. Later some of the GUDGEL children were buried in the family burial plot, among them is William and his wife. William GUDGEL, Andrew's youngest child, was born February 1801 and married Lucy THURMAN, no date, (we now know it was February 12, 1824 Gibson Co., IN) and they were parents to twelve children: Andrew, Jacob, Nicholas, Henry, Edward, John, Abraham, Nan who married Don DOUGLAS (actually it was Nancy who married Lorenzo S. "Dow" DOUGLAS), Sarah who married Rice REDMAN, Martha who married Henderson PRITTCHETT, Caroline who married LeRoy MARTIN, and Harriett who married Henry YEAGER. Abraham GUDGEL is the forefather of most of the GUDGEL's that now live in that area. Evidently William lived out his entire life around Owensville, seeing it develop from a frontier community to a large populated city. After reacing manhood, most of William's boys left Owensville, ABraham and John stayed on, or near, the old homestead, Andrew, Nicholas and Edward located near Oakland City, Indiana. Jacob went to Kansas and Henry to Illinois. William GUDGEL died 22 January 1877 and was buried in the family burial plot, no date of Lucy's death was given. (Lucy died May 9, 1887 and is buried beside William). Page 3 Henry Thomas GUDGEL, son of William GUDGEL, was born near Owensville, Indiana, and married Sarah Ann JOHNSON in Evansville, IN in 1846. While living in Evansville a son, Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL, was born 20 October, 1847. William Alexander GUDGEL was born to this couple while in Evansville, 8 July, 1850. Twas in September of that year Henry Thomas GUDGEL moved his family to Athens, IL. Unto that family while at Athens was born, Andrew born 1852, Henry 1854, Ann 1856, Jacob 1859, and Phillip born 1862. (New evidence says 1865?). Jacon and Ann died while very young. During the Civil War Henry Thomas GUDGEL was severly injured in the Battle of Shiloh and died of pnuemonia soon after. He was a soldier in the Union Army. Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL, eldest son of Henry Thomas, enlisted in the United States Federal Cavalry when but 16 years old. The first time he enlisted his mother reported that he had falsified his age and got him out and sent him off to school. While in school Thomas Jefferson ran off and again enlisted, this time his mother, seeing his determination, never interferred. Thomas was large for his age, probably 6 foot 3 inches tall and weigned 190 pounds, and the army needed men pretty bad, thus it was probably easy to enlist. He enlisted in 1863, soon after learning his father had died of wounds received at Shiloh. While with the cavalry his troop was engaged in a skirmish with the enemy. Thomas's horse was shot and when he fell he rolled over Thomas, resulting in an injury that placed him in a hospital and there he was when the war ended. Upon going back to his old home near Athens, Illinoi Thomas learned that his girl friend, Sarah JONES had moved with her parents to Springfield, Missouri. Thomas followed, and in 1866 he and Sarah were married. To the marriage of Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL and Sarah JONES were born the following: William Henry in 1867, died 3 years later; Thomas Wiley born 20 February 1869; Mary Agnes born 27 October 1877; Holland Porter born 6 March 1881; there were three children born to this couple but died while quite young. Sarah died 2 January 1884, 36 years old. Thomas then married Mary MYERS, born 20 February 1863. To this couple was born: Dollie May, 16 February 1892; and Flora, Sept. 1891 but died the following year. Mary MYERS GUDGEL died October, 1891. In 1893 Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL married his third wife, Martha ALLEN, a widow with five children. To this marriage two sons were born; Luther born 21 July 1894 and Marvin born in 1896 but died in November, 1899. Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL died in September 1899 and was buried in the Oakland Cemetery, near Madill, Oklahoma. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Segment #2 will begin with page 4 Linda Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:45:59 -0800 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: GUDGEL List and Page Yes, it would be nice to compile all the documented data (with references where the data came from in some form like footnotes and even unsubstanciated stories etc but also documented as to their sources). Perhaps we can find someone or several someones to take parts of such a project and do a section each. All it would take is organization, direction, time, a few decisions, more time, detail oriented folks, and did I mention, time? Dianne. PS Yes, thanks brother for getting the Gudgels into the 21st century. From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:38:19 -0700 Subject: New pictures If you didn't take a look at Kay's story of our almost disastrous trip to Alaska or if you did there are more pictures added to the story. Take a look. Doyal Gudgel Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL HISTORY- 1969 EIDTION- SEGMENT #2 Page 4 Thomas Wiley GUDGEL, son of Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL, married Emma Sarah SEVEDGE 30 January 1892 in Jack Co, Texas by the brides father, William SEVEDGE, a Baptist preacher. They were the parents of 11 children: Marion Floyd born 23 February 1893; Loyd Louis born 9 June 1895; Ella born 15 July 1897; Ethel born 18 January 1900; Sarah Emma born 26 November 1902; Edna born 6 June 1905, Victor Thomas and Virgil Wiley, twins, born 16 February 1908 (Victor was killed 13 September 1927, the only one of these children not living in August, 1969 when this is being written); Opal Leroy born 12 May 1911; Otto Augustus born 18 November 1913 and Mary Edith born 30 April 1917. Mary agnes (Aunt Mollie) married Benjamin HARRIS and to them were added two children, Elmer and Emma, most of their lives were spent in and near Atoka, Oklahoma, and it was here that Benjamin and Mary died and were buried (Mary died in 1961 or 1962, correct information not available). Holland Porter (Uncle Holl) GUDGEL married Evelyn SPINDELL in 1902. To them were born the following children: Anna born 1903; Elmer born 1906; Flora born 1908 but died in 1911; Allen born May 29, 1911; Mary born 1913; Eugene born 1917; Doyal born 1920; and Leon in 1923. Anna (Myrtle Anna) McGHEE died October 10, 1964 and was buried in Plainsburg Cemetery near Chowchilla, CA. All the rest of the children are living as of this date, August, 1969. Dollie May GUDGEL married Frank TIDWELL and they moved to eastern Oklahoma, little has been known of her activities, however, Frank died after about 12 years and Aunt Doll married again, she has a number of children but their records are unavailable to this writer. Dollie May is living in Keifer, Oklahoma at this time, August, 1969. Luther GUDGEL, the youngest son of Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL, and a son by his third wife, married Myrtle TAYLOR (date unknown), after many years in California they have returned to Madill, OK, the scene of Luther's youth. At this time, August, 1969, Uncle Luke and Aunt Myrtle are retired and living near Madill, OK. They have no children. Thomas Wiley GUDGEL died 7 June 1934 and was buried in the family plot of Plainsburg Cemetery. Emma Sarah SEVEDGE GUDGEL continued to live at El Nido, California until her death 16 August 1960 and was then laid to rest beside Thomas Wiley GUDGEL. Holland Porter GUDGEL and Evelyn, his wife, (Uncle Holl and Aunt Alve) are at this time, August 1969, living in a rest home in Atoka, OK. Allen and Leon are near, Jack and Eugusne are living in Texas; Mary (WOODS), Doyal and Anna's children are in California. Page 5 Thomas Wiley GUDGEL was born in Springfield, MO 20 February, 1869 married Emma Sarah SEVEDGE, WHO WAS BORN 22 fEBRUARY 1875 in what is now Madill, OK at that time it was the Indian Territory. The three oldest children were corn there; Floyd (Marion Floyd) born next was Lloyd, then Ella. They then moved to Texas Co., Missouri, where Ethel was born (daes of these borths were given on preceeding page). After a short period in MO. the family moved back to their former location in the Indian Territory where Emma and Edna were born. In 1907 Oklahoma became a state, about this time they moved to Kingston, Johnson Co., Oklahoma where the twins, Virgil and Victor, were born. In 1909 they moved to Boggy Depot, Atoka Co., OK (this community has ceased to exist at this time, August 1969) and here Opal, Otto and Mary were born. Victor was killed in Fillmore, where the family had moved to in 1924. and was buried in the Fillmore Cemetery, he was killed the 13 of September, 1927. All the rest of these children are alive and well at the time of this writing (August, 1969). Some of the older children came to California in the 1920's after marrying, but it was mid 1930's before they had all left Oklahoma and made a home in California. Generally, everyone settled down without any moving about worth mentioned, so, these moves will be unmentioned, except to say that by mid 1930's most of the family had married and had purchased their own homes and are living in them at this time. Marion Floyd GUDGEL married Nellie FURGESON in Atoka Co., OK Oct. 1913, and to them were born the following: Leota born 22 September 1914; Leona born 20 September 1916; Loyal born 7 November 1917; Doyal born 23 August 1921; Flora Nell born 3 January 1923 and Marion Floyd, Jr. born 12 April 1924. Floyd and Nellie were separated in 1926 and Floyd brought his children back to live with his parents and brothers and sisters, their residence at this time was Fillmore, Oklahoma. These children lived in this home, making a part of the family for several years even until the transit west was made in 1930. After coming to California Floyd married again, this time to Aye WILSON in 1935. To this family was born Ason Gerald in 1937 but died about 6 months later and was buried in the family plot in the Plainsburg Cemetery; Jerry was born 25 January 1935, LaVerne born 14 January 1938, Larry born 14 September 1940. LaVerne died 10 October 1961 in Seattle, Washington and was buried there. Floyd and Aye's children scattered quite a lot but most of them settled in or near Seattle, WA, so Floyd and Aye followed them after Floyd retired about 1958 and have lived there since. Loyd Louis GUDGEL married Cecil GARRETT in Atoka Co., OK 25 November 1916 and to them the following children were born: Lee Roy born 16 November 1919; Verlin born 25 January 1922; Rosalia born 22 November 1926, Loering (?) born 11 February 1929; Robert born 22 December 1930; Elmadale born 19 November 1925; and Patsy Ann born 6 June 1938. The first child, a son, died the day following birth. In the fall of 1934 (except Elmadale and Patsy who were born afterwards) this family left Oklahoma (Coleman) and moved to Chowchilla, California. With some minor exceptions this family (now all children married and have families of their own) still makes the Chowchilla area their home and have established strong ties in that community. Ella married Ross Belton BEGLEY at Atoka, OK in 1917. To them the following children were born: Sylba born 20 January 1920, Lavada born 22 September 1928. A son, Thomas Belton born 8 March 1926, joined the U.S. Marines at the age of 18 shortly after graduating from the Chowchilla High School and was killed in action against the Japanese while serving aboard the aircraft carrier Saratoga as a gun captain by a Japanese suicide aircraft 21 February 1945. Ross and Ella came to California in the 1920's and lived most of their lives near Chowchilla. At this time (Aug., 1969) they are retired farmers living on their farm. Ella married William Fate KILE in Atoka Co., OK in 1919 to them were born: Sylvia born 14 January 1925; William (Thomas WIlliam) born 10 September 1931. Like Ross and Ella, Fate and Ethel came to California in the 1920's, they returned to OK (as so many do) before finally settling down in California. Fate died 30 April 1957 in Chowchilla and was buried in the Plainsburg Cemetery. Following his death Ethel sold the ranch, bought a home in the town of Chowchilla and moved into it. Two children have married, have families of their own and live near. Emma married Francis Russell HARRIS in Atoka Co., OK in 1921, to them were born the following children: Marion Francis born 11 June 1924; Betty born 5 March 1926; Dorthy and Dean (twins) born 11 March 1929; Bonnie born 3 May 1930; and Ronnie born 14 April 1937. Russ and Emma came to California then returned to live awhile in Oklahoma but they became permanent residents of California when they returned early in 1930, shortly afterwards they purchased a ranch near Chowchilla, where they now live (August 1969) however, they are retired. ALl of the children are now married but live with their respective families nearby. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Segment #3 begins with page 7 Linda Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:09:29 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: GUDGEL HISTORY- 1969 EIDTION- SEGMENT #2 Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: A couple minor corrections can be made. > Marion Floyd GUDGEL married Nellie FURGESON Correct spelling Fergerson > in Atoka Co., OK Oct. 1913, and > to them were born the following: Leota born 22 September 1914; Leona Correct spellling Leoma Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:40:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL HISOTRY-1969 Edition-Segment #3 Edna Married Luther TOWNSEND in Atoka Co., OK in 1924 and to them were born the following children: Jaundella born 21 July 1925; Reba born 13 July 1929; and Richard (Dickie) born 2 June 1932. Shortly after Luther and Edna were married they moved to Lubbock, Texas and until the spring of 1934 they lived in west Texas (their last residence in west Texas was near Baileyboro) But the drouth forced them to move and in early 1934 they moved to Chowchilla where they made a cotton crop near El Nido. The next year they purchased a farm south of Chowchilla which has been their place of residence ever since. Luther died 28 November 1965 in his home near Chowchilla and was buried in the Chowchilla Cemetery. The two girls were married and living with their families nearby, Dickie, still unmarried, lives with Edna in their old home. Virgil Wiley GUDGEL lives on the old family farm, where his mother had lived out her last years. He married Sally HICKS 21 July 1955 and they lived on the farm since that date until this time, August, 1969. There are no children. Opal Leroy GUDGEL married Margaret Agnes SHIELDS 24 December 1935 and to them a son was born: Dennis Lee born 28 June 1944, an infant daughter died at birth. Opal and Margaret have lived their entire married life near El Nido, CA and it is on the same ranch they presently live (August 1969) where they still farm. Dennis is now married and lives in Eugene, Oregon. Otto Agustus married Edith CHASTAIN in 1936 in Madera Co., CA and to them was born Richard Wayne, in October, 1927. A daughter born in 1939 died at birth. "Red" and Edith now (August 1969) live in Cressey, CA where Red is a ditchtender for the Merced Irrigation District. Richard, now married and has a family of his own, lives near. Mary (Tootsie) married Herbert SEHUH in May, 1937, to them was born one daughter, Cheryl, that married Danny RILEY and with their family lives in Los Banos. Tootsie and Herbert now (August 1969) live in the parsonage of the Missionary Baptist Church at El Nido where Herbert is a pastor of that church. A correction: Sarah Emma SEVEDGE GUDGEL, mother of the above family, was the grand daughter of a Missionary Baptist preacher (instead of being a daughter of one), her grandfather, on her mother's side, was Martin EPPS, and the one that performed her marriage. Her mother's mother name was APPLEBY. Page 8 The foregoing History has been largly assembled through the efforts of Emma Sarah GUDGEL, my mother. Thomas W. GUDGEL, my father, had fell heir to the settlement of an estate left by his grandfather, Henry Thomas GUDGEL, who had homesteaded at Athens, Illinois and in order to quiet the title in order to sell and dispose of the estate all heirs had to be located. In the process of locating my father he came in contact with some distant GUDGEL relatives through correspondence. After my father died my mother started a long series of letter writing to these relatives, trying to collect all of the family history that was available. The big find was made in Indiana, someone had copied a record written in an old family Bible, we never got to see the Bible but there is no question but that the information was correct, this was the part of the history that leads up to the family migrating into Illinois. The portion regarding the family while in Illinois was given by Lottie HARRIS, who was a first cousin of my father, and she has lived her entire life within a mile of where she was born on her father's (my great uncle) home. This is where Lottie and Harry GUDGEL (brother and sister) were raised was the old homestead, while there with Ronnie HARRIS in 1954 we saw some of the original building (a 1 1/2 story log house) still standing. The portion of this history regarding the family activity after the Civil War came from memory of my mother of the things she saw and was told. No history is complete, but each passage is a place that can be used to start from and add to and these writings are double spaced in order to provide space where passages can be added as desired. This year at this time we hold the annual family get-together, it is the seventeeth. The set time for each year is the second Saturday before Labor Day. The meeting place is presently being held at the Chowchilla Fairgrounds, Chowchilla, for a number of years it was held at Henderson Park near Snelling. We sincerely hope that this will be continued for all foreseeable time as a reminder that this family stand united and at least once a year each member should pause long enough to get together and keep those family ties close. Some of the GUDGEL family came to the Chowchilla area before 1930 but no effort was made to establish residence until about 1933 when Ross BEGLEY, Fate KILE and Russ HARRIS started buying their places. Soon after this the rest of the family followed suit and likewise started making permanent residence. These purchases were made during the hard part of the Depression and when things started to pick up during the second World War the fortunes of the family grew. Since that time the family has grown in numbers and grew in prosperity. When we first came to California it was not planned that we all come to the same place, maybe it was for mutual aid but we found in this community a place we liked. Personally, I have seen most of this state, as well as some of the others, and after seeing it all I like it around here. When I first saw this community I said to myself that someone was going to have to move over and make room for me because I was going to need room to put down my feet. I think we all have a feeling that we belong, we have had a hand in making this community what it is. But, those days are past, my generation is passing away, the torch is about to be handed to the next generation. Are they qualified to carry on? Maybe it is not a matter of qualification, but of willingness. As the family grows larger it grows farther apart, so many diverse interests arise, we are now involved in most community activities and getting too involved to have time for each other, there is too many strangers. Prosperity is taking it's toll, nothing comes without an effort, prosperity is no exception. Not only does the desire for personal gain cut one away from his family because there is no longer the need for mutual aid, but what is worse, it tends to keep them away from his church. The family has deep roots founded in the church, always being very active. But this is changing, weeks (maybe months) pass without some attending church. It is most likely that the person(s) that fail to attend church will be the one who failed to attend the family reunion, there seems to be a relationship between the love of God and the love for one's family, this is the price paid for personal gain, or worldly pleasures. A fortune may be gained, then lost, and possibly regained. This can happen several times, but you only loose your family once, it can never be the same again. And, please remember.... your family can do without you far better than you can do without your family. Sincerely, your family reunion chariman (Signature) Opal L. GUDGEL P.S. It took me 9 years to assemble the facts given in this family record. Nine years of letter writing by Mrs. Emma GUDGEL. It took me many long evening of piecing it all together so you might have a family record. Now, I ask you to please take care of it. (Signature) Opal GUDGEL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This complete the GUDGEL History-1969 Edition by Opal GUDGEL. I think this was a wonderful tribute that Opal compiled this data for future generations. Does anyone know if Opal is still living? I also wonf=der about the family Bible record in Indiana that he spoke of. Hope you have enjoyed this as much as I have. Linda Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:26:01 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: GUDGEL HISOTRY-1969 Edition-Segment #3 Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > > Hope you have enjoyed this as much as I have. > Linda No Opal died a few years ago. All the brothers and sisters are gone except for Mary (Tootsie) Opal was the prime mover in keeping the reunions going.. For years it was held at a park in Merced. This was the Gudgel/Sevedge reunion. Up to one hundred and twenty five attended. Later at the fairgrounds at Chowchilla. Now it is held at Marion Harris's hacienda just on the edge of Chowchilla. Last few years 60 or 70 came. Interesting is that I have the Bible mentioned above. It was the wedding bible of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel and Sarah Jones. Now it is in pretty bad shape. I did manage to get several tintype pictures from it. Opal talks of the folks in Illinois. I wish he had told how his grandfather Thomas Jefferson got to Springfield Missouri after getting out of the hospital after the Civil War. He married Sarah in 1867 only a year or two after getting out of the army. But in Springfield??? The Gudgel's became so numerous at Chowchilla one of them Bob Gudgel who was a crop duster got a hamburger named after the Gudgels. There is only one really nice restaurant in Chowchilla near the motel off highway 99. He ate there so much they named a hamburger after him. The restaurant has changed hands I believe recently so don't know if . it is still available. There is a misspelling in the piece. Tootsie married Herbert Schuh. Correct spelling. I spent some years growing up near Chowchilla and Merced Opal gave me a job irrigating at night. I was about 16. it was so beautiful watching the sun come up over the Sierra Nevada's. I still get a thrill any time I can redo that. Not the irrigating but watching the sun come up. Linda, did you type it up from the material Opal sent you? I never say any of his typing that was good enough for scanning. Thanks for the great job. Yes, I can remember... Doyal Gudgel > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:14:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL memories from CA Doyal- How about sharing what you remember of those days in the Chowchilla area? Linda Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Opal story correction I think that Herbert's last name is actually Schuh (pronounced "shoe") Dad, correct me if my correction needs correcting. Bob >Mary (Tootsie) married Herbert SEHUH in May, 1937, to them was born one >daughter, Cheryl, that married Danny RILEY and with their family lives in From: Bob Gudgel Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: sorry, already corrected I just now see that my dad already corrected the Schuh spelling. One way to see if a correct spelling has been corrected is to go to the archive and search for the correct spelling. If someone corrected it, the name will be found. Bob Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:30:56 -0700 From: Nancy Miller Subject: Opal Gudgel I checked the Social Security death Index and there is an Opal Gudgel born 20 Jul 1923, died May 1995. His residence at that time was Bonham, TX. From: "Gail Hohenberger" To: "Nancy Miller" , Subject: Re: Opal Gudgel Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:18:22 -0500 This is not the same Opal Gudgel. This Opal Gudgel was my mother. She was married to Kenneth Gudgel who preceded her in death in January 1990. Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:38:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Opal GUDGEL Thanks you Gail, for pointing out that there was another Opal GUDGEL. By the way, this Opal GUDGEL whote the documents that I submitted was a male. I too, thought it was an unusual name for a man the first time I came across it. Linda Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:25:24 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Opal story correction Bob Gudgel wrote: > I think that Herbert's last name is actually Schuh (pronounced "shoe") > Dad, correct me if my correction needs correcting. > Bob > > >Mary (Tootsie) married Herbert SEHUH in May, 1937, to them was born one > >daughter, Cheryl, that married Danny RILEY and with their family lives in You're right Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:32:53 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Opal Gudgel Nancy Miller wrote: > I checked the Social Security death Index and there is an Opal Gudgel > born 20 Jul 1923, died May 1995. His residence at that time was Bonham, Not the one who wrote the pieces put out by Linda > TX. From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:33:49 -0700 Subject: Re: GUDGEL memories from CA Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > Doyal- > How about sharing what you remember of those days in the Chowchilla area? > Linda Will make a stab at it. > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:17:54 -0700 From: "Mia K. Fleegel" To: "K.E. Stuart" cc: GUDGEL-List@eskimo.com, "Mia K. Fleegel" Subject: Re: Gudgel Marriages - Jefferson Co, IN Andrew Gudgel is the son of John Gudgel and Jane Harbison. Andrew was born about 1809 in Kentucky. The marriage you list is in error. Andrew married Elizabeth STAPLES on 27 Sept. 1832 in Jefferson County, IN the citation you list is in the index of the Jefferson County records. I have two other proofs that Elizabeth was a STAPLES. Jane Gudgel is a daughter of John Gudgel and Jane Harbison. Mia Fleegel On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, K.E. Stuart wrote: > Can anyone tell me where these two Gudgel's fit? > > Marriages--Indiana to 1850 > > Andrew Gudgel married Elizabeth Sample on 27 Sep 1832 in Jefferson > County, IN > > Jane Gudgel married Andrew W. Blake on 25 Sep 1839 in Jefferson County, > IN From: "Lane Lance" Subject: more Gudgels Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:46:06 -0400 Hello Gudgels! I finally have a few minutes to share the cemetery information I found at the SLC family history library this last summer. All of these come from the "Payne County Oklahoma Cemetery Index" by Mahlon G. Erikson. All of these are buried at the Fairlawn Cemetery in Stillwater, Payne, Oklahoma, and are found on page 217 of the book. I think I will take the liberty to arrange these people in their families, if I know them. From old Andrew and Elizabeth to William and Lucy Thurman to Jacob Gudgel and Mary Jane Witherspoon. TOMBSTONE INSCRIPTIONS Child #2 of Jacob and Mary Jane Thomas Ed(ward) Gudgel - b.29 Dec 1864, d. 1 Dec 1945, husband of Sarena McClellan Sarena Armena Gudgel - b. 15 May 1861, d. 19 June 1939, wife of Thomas Ruby F. Gudgel - b. 8 June 1898, d. 19 Jan 1899, daughter of T.E. and R.(S?) A. Child # 7 of Jacob and Mary Jane Theodore Gudgel - b. 17 Aug 1874, d. 20 Oct 1950 husband of Della Walters Della Nora Gudgel - b. 13 June 1880, d. 20 Mar 1961 wife of Theodore Bessie Gudgel - b.5 Aug. 1907, d. 30 June 1908 Daughter of Theodore and Della Geraldine Gudgel - b.Dec 1913, d. 18 Jan 1917, daughter of Theodore and Della Child #8 of Jacob and Mary Jane Charles Henry Gudgel - b. 5 Aug 1876, d. 31 Dec 1959. Husband of Grace Nichols Grace Alberta Gudgel - b. 13 Jul 1884, d. 15 Feb 1976 wife of Charles Alma Bell Gudgel - b. 9 May 1901, d. 23 Nov. 1917. Daughter of C.H. and G.A. (Grace said that her daughter had the voice of an angel and her early death of diptheria made her (Grace's) hair turn white in 3 days time as she cried night and day for those 3 days over her daughters grave) There are 4 other Gudgels buried in Fairlawn and I do not know where they fit into the family. F.W. Gudgel - b. 1912, d. 19 Jan 1956 (possibly a child of Thomas or Theodore) Pearl Gudgel - b. 1903, wife of Roy (no other information on her stone) Roy Gudgel - b. 11 Nov. 1898, d. 16 Jan. 1966, husband of Pearl (possibly a son of Theodore and Della?) Wake Francis Gudgel - b. 20 Jan 1912, d. 16 Jan 1956, husband of Madeline Hollingsworth ( possibly a son of Thomas or Theodore) I am certain that these children are not from Charles and Grace as they had 3 children and no others. I hope that this information will be helpful to someone. Debbie Lance Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Theodore GUDGEL Debbie Lance gave us some good info. on the GUDGEL's in the Stillwater, Payne Co., OK cemetery and I was able to add a little of the data to my own research, however, I am not clear as to who the actual children of Jacob GUDGEL and Mary Jane WITHERSPOON were. Lane, could you please list these children for us? I have conflicting information that O'd like to get straight. I have some information on a Theodore GUDGEL that I received in 1993 from Kathryn GUDGEL in Redwood Falls, MN when she answered mail out I had sent out. This is the info. she returned on the info. sheet: James Walker GUDGEL b. 4/16/47, Waluts, Sedgwick Co., KS. Occupation Doctor of Chiropractic. Parents: Walker Frances GUDGEL, b. 1/20/1912 Stillwater, OK, d. 1955 Slayton, TX and Madeleine Ruth HOLLINGSWORTH, b. 6/22/1920 Mansville, OK. Spouse: Katherine Louise GERKEN (the lady who responded to my query), married: 5/6/1967 Illinois. I responded to her and asked for additional infomation and this is what she said: James Walker GUDGEL's home town was Wellington, KS. Moved to Norman, OK and then to Redwood Falls, MN. Married Katheryn Louise GERKEN-b. 1/8/1846 Jennings, MO. 2 children: Deanie and Wayne. James GUDGEL's parents: James and Madeleine Ruth HOLLINGSWORTH GUDGEL. In 1940 or 1941 James changed his name to Walker Frances GUDGEL (took place in Payne Co., OK). Worked as a fireman on the railroad in KS. Grandparents: Theodore GUDGEL b. 1874, Indiana married Della WALKER b. 1881, KS 6 children-living and 1 deceased. This data from copies of birth certificates of Jim's parents. Maternal Grandparents: Ray HOLLINGSWORTH b. 1/4/1886 Collinsville, TX. Married-Ursula FREEZE b. 7/17/18?? Whiterboro, TX. I had just filed this data as "unknown GUDGEL's" until I made a connection. I think this is it! So now if someone can straighten me out on the children of Jacob GUDGEL and Mary Jane WITHERSPOON I should be able to put this family where it rightly belongs. I had no Theodore GUDGEL listed as one of their children so this will help fill in some of the gaps. Thanks, Linda From: ralphj@uswest.net Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:55:51 -0700 Subject: Re: more Gudgels Anyone who is descended from Henry T gudgel or any of his descendants please take a look at this tintype and see if you can put a name to it. It was found in the Bible owned by Thomas Jefferson Gudgel. So must have been related somehow. Please send all mail to me in the future to ra at ralphj@eskimo.com I'm closing this US west Account Doyal Gudgel. Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:45:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL chat Good Morning to everyone! I have been too busy lately to add much to this list but I am still here :) I wanted to thank Doyal for the picture of the tintype found in Henry T. GUDGEL's Bible. It can through very clear and I have printed it off for future reference. Would also like to know who this fair lady is. I got an email from what seemed to be a young gentleman named D. Brent GUDGELL, from Bountiful, Utah asking about the GUDGEL's. I am waiting to hear back from him to give me more details about his connections. Prior to Utah, I think he said his family came from Iowa Subject: More GUDGEL Reunion Information (California) These are additional reports and information I recieved from Jeanette GUDGEL in 1993: Report on the 25th Annual GUDGEL-SEVEDGE Family Reunion Chowchilla Fairgrounds We get report from many that this has been the best meeting we have had. It seems to be such a congenial affiar, everyone have such a nice time visiting, it seems there is a greater appreciation of family relationship. The day was cool and plesant, the food perfect. Our cool drinks almost satisfied the need, the coffee didn't fare quite so well. I think the coffee shortage could be that our coffee is too good. Uncle Ules SEVEDGE, now 82 years old, came the fartherest, by airplane from Houston, MO. He stayed a week and upon returning home called back to tell us he had made a safe return. Doyal and Kay GUDGEL drove from their home in Seattle, Doyal gave a report on the family history he found of interest the preceeding year, they always bring many pictures for our viewing and take some while here. Just as we were getting under way with the dinner Jerry and Larry GUDGEL arrived from Seattle, they had left Larry's truck in Sacremento and Jerry's youngest son, Jeff, who is in the Coast Guard and stationed near Sacremento, brought them on down to the reunion. Coming from San Jose was the Jack GUDGEL family, his mother, Frances, wife Carole and daughters Sharion and Julie. These are distant cousins of the GUDGEL's around Chowchilla, the first time they ever attended our meeting. Jack opened the meeting with a prayer that the Lord continue to bless our family and gave thanks for all those blessings we have received. There was a good turnout of the OWENS family, Carl and Ruth FORGEY, Rowena OWENS and her son William and his family, Melinda and Rick CRAIG, for the first time in several years the OWENS were not started in their silage custom cutting, that was why Earl OWEN (as well as Bill) got to attend the meeting. We also had the younger OWEN's sisters, Mildred EDWARDS and Betty WHITEHOUSE. We would love to pay a special tribute to each of the 87 who signed the register but time nor space does not permit. (Some failed to sign the register). Jaundell registered everyone and pinned their name where it would be visible. She does such a good job of this each year. After dinner Herbert Schuh gave one of his short devotionals that we all love to hear, he stayed within his time limit. Red GUDGEL and Ethel KILE and, "Bury Me Beneath the Weeping Willow Tree" with Red plunking on his guitar, the 15 or so years since these two sang the song did not destroy their harmony. Then the KAISER family put on a half-dozen spiritual numbers that would grace any assembly. These songs were accompanied by an electric piano set up outside alongside the dinner tables. The final number was a special by Jack KAISER, "How Great Thou Art", sang upon request, no one does it better. Jack KAISER has charge of this part of the program and invites talent to help out, if you can do so, help him. Following a suggestion we have a barbeque next year instead of the usual pot luck dinner your chairman appointed a committee to find out what the attitude of our family is, at this time it appears we will have a barbeque, further notice will be given next fall in the notice to assemble for the reunion. Marion HARRIS will head the committee in case we hold the meat and bean dinner. Again, we are thankful we can report no deaths in the past year. Some marriages have been recorded, and several births, fact is, we are having a population explosion, a special sheet would be better to give to each family at the reunion that could be filled with the history, maybe I can get one out for next fall. Would you please send this information to us in order to get out a complete list. After the entertainment period was over most of the family drove the two miles to Marion and Joquetta's house for a swim for those that desired one and refreshments for all, seemingly it was a pleasant finale to a pleasant afternoon. On the day following the reunion I received a call from Walter GUDGEL, Athens, Illinois, saying an extensive search for the grave of Henry Thomas GUDGEL's grave has come to an end without any success. The week prior, a trip had been made to Mount City, IL, where Henry GUDGEL had died during the Civil War. At that big Civil War veteran cemetery no record of his grave can be found, they do have a large number of "unknown soldiers" buried there, possibly this is the answer. Last summer we thought the gravesite was found, but it turned out to be a false lead, but during this time a marker had been ordered by the Veterans Administration and will be placed where the family desires. It has been decided to just go ahead and have the marker placed in the GUDGEL family plot, Athens Cemetery, near Athens, Illinois---in case, by some unforseen chance--the grave should be located the marker should be moved. I know that you are happy this is being done, even after 115 years it is better to place a mark for a dead soldier than never do it at all. I belive we can thank Doyal GUDGEL for taking a major role in starting the ball rolling, and also Walter GUDGEL, for taking the time and trouble to investigate these records. We pray that God be with you / keep you in the hollow of His hand always. Sincerely, your chairman (can't read signature-copy is dark) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maybe Doyal or some of his family would like to tell us about these individuals mentioned in the report. Who are they and how do they fit into this GUDGEL tree? Thanks, Linda Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:57:04 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: More GUDGEL Reunion Information (California) OK I'll comment and bring some of the information up to date. Especially about Henry T Gudgel. I've commented before but there is probably new ones signed on who might not know. Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > These are additional reports and information I recieved from Jeanette GUDGEL > in 1993: > > Report on the 25th Annual GUDGEL-SEVEDGE Family Reunion > Chowchilla Fairgrounds Subsequent to this meeting at the fairgrounds meetings are held at Marion Harris's hacienda on the edge of Chowchilla. Since then Marion has had a stroke and Jaquetta carries on holding the reunions. A great strain I am sure. Marion has a palatial home and grounds and is a treat to visit. > > . There was a good turnout > of the OWENS family, Carl and Ruth FORGEY, Rowena OWENS and her son William > and his family, Melinda and Rick CRAIG, for the first time in several years > the OWENS were not started in their silage custom cutting, that was why Earl > OWEN (as well as Bill) got to attend the meeting. We also had the younger > OWEN's sisters, Mildred EDWARDS and Betty WHITEHOUSE. We would love to pay > a special tribute to each of the 87 who signed the register but time nor > space does not permit. (Some failed to sign the register). The Owens family are from the Sevedge side of the family. > > Again, we are thankful we can report no deaths in the past year. Since then too many to mention. Only one daughter of T W Gudgel remains. Mary Schuh (Tootsie) > On the day following the reunion I received a call from Walter GUDGEL, > Athens, Illinois, saying an extensive search for the grave of Henry Thomas > GUDGEL's grave has come to an end without any success. The week prior, a > trip had been made to Mount City, IL, where Henry GUDGEL had died during the > Civil War. At that big Civil War veteran cemetery no record of his grave > can be found, they do have a large number of "unknown soldiers" buried > there, possibly this is the answer. Last summer we thought the gravesite was > found, but it turned out to be a false lead, but during this time a marker > had been ordered by the Veterans Administration and will be placed where the > family desires. It has been decided to just go ahead and have the marker > placed in the GUDGEL family plot, Athens Cemetery, near Athens, > Illinois---in case, by some unforseen chance--the grave should be located > the marker should be moved. I know that you are happy this is being done, > even after 115 years it is better to place a mark for a dead soldier than > never do it at all. I belive we can thank Doyal GUDGEL for taking a major > role in starting the ball rolling, and also Walter GUDGEL, for taking the > time and trouble to investigate these records. I had enlisted the help of the The Veterans Administration , National Archives, hospital records and any other department i could think of to help. The 28th Illinois Volunteers (Reactivated) the Civil war regiment Henry T enlisted in helped. Henry died from typhoid fever contracted when the 28th was camped at Fort Holt a temporary military camp at the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers just across the Mississippi from Cairo Ill. As you go east into Kentucky over the big bridge immediately on the other side from Cairo in the flat land next to the river and north side is where they camped. .No doubt the soldiers were drinking the water. Typhoid is contracted by drinking polluted water. He was taken to Mound City Ill where the military hospital was located. Here the record disappears as far as actual entries are concerned. His military records of the 28th state that he was taken to Mound City Hospital. However hospital records do not list him. The military cemetery on the other side of town with about 7,000 graves does not list him. At this time so many were dying of diseases especially typhoid fever that to keep the disease from spreading the Government set up pestilence barges where they put typhoid fever victims. I would not doubt that at this time those who took care of the sick were reluctant to get very close. How this was handled I do not know. But apparently they were not brought into the hospital to die but put on the barges and when they died. That is probably why he did not list a room or date of entry at the hospital. I don't know how the body was disposed of. I need more help on this. When all options were exhausted the 28th Ill Reg. (Reactivated) arranged for a ceremony for the placement of the stone next to his wife. The Regiment had the honor guard fire a salute to Henry T Gudgel. I thank the 28th for their help in creating a place to keep Henry T. Gudgel's memory alive. Here is where I am going to get a little personal and bitter because these things are still happening. Henry died for a lousy $3.67. Leaving 4 small children and a widow. He was so dirt poor that at the time of his enlistment he owed $3.67 taxes on his farm that was being taken over by the county because he could not pay them. Is this ironic or not? Leave a family for I believe was $7.00 per month pay as a soldier. So he could save his farm. How little they knew of war. I do not have a copy of the page listing his taxes but if anyone gets to Menard County Ill go to the Menard Index of Sept. 12, 1861. One hundred and thirty seven years tomorrow. to the day,. I have a description of where his property is located if anyone ever wants to look it up. Henry was not unique in ths respect. Thre were either 1200 or 1500 others having thier property sold for taxes. Some for less than Henry's. Seems incredible. 1,200 in one counrty at one time. These counties are not large eitehr. At least compared to the county I live in. More than 60 miles from end to end. . OK I'm ok now. :-) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Maybe Doyal or some of his family would like to tell us about these > individuals mentioned in the report. Who are they and how do they fit into > this GUDGEL tree? > Thanks, Linda The Ownes were related on grandma Gudgel's side. Sevedge. Walter I believe was from Thomas Jefferson Gudgel's second wife. Mary Meyers. He's listed in some of the archives. I'm old and memory is the second thing to go. I'll check with Shirley Denny and correct this,. Cant now as the modem ties up the line I use to fax to her. \ Later. From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:50:07 EDT Subject: Crest information Linda, some time ago you submitted information on crests and asked what language it was. I ran the information through a translation program on the internet and the only one that seemed to work at all was French. It still didn't translate everything. It looks like some or all of it may be Latin, but I don't have access to a program to do Latin translations. Anyway, the following is what I got back when the program translated from French to Englixh. From: Rietstap' S " armorial General " the following dated is one crests issued to members of the family. It is copied exactly have shown in vol. 1, page 805) GOTTSCHALCK -- Saxony (Year, 7, Oct. 1752 At 3 DEC 1804) Ec.:aux 1 and 4 of arg. has a crane of gu., with its gold vigilance; to the 2 of azure has four bes. of gold, 2 and 2; to the 3 of azure has three bes, of gold; 2 At 1. C,: the crane. Of arg. and of gold. Gottschalk -- Prussia. Of arg. has three apples of gold grenade, ouv. of gu. Gottschall -- Bav. (Nob. of St-Empire, 10 seven. 1745) Weapons of Sreniawa. Two cq. court. Page 29 C: I uns.crois Latin of arg.; between two prob, coupees alt. of gu. and arg.; 2 * a lion iss. of gold, between two banners of azure, CH each one of a tete of gold lion that has its, cont. Gottschall -- Leipzig. (Nob. of Prussia, 1878.) Party: to the 1 of gu. has a epee and a crook, passees in jump, 1' epee having the point year low, and two masks (tragedy and comic) of arg., entretouchant itself, and Br on the other pieces of furniture; to the 2 of azure has a quadrant ancient It still doesn't make much sense. Anyway there it is for whatever it is worth. Dave Gudgel Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:04:03 -0500 From: kmahlberg Subject: Heraldry The language of heraldry is French. The information Linda found is heraldic descriptions written in French. It is a shorthand description with a lot of abbreviations. I am trying to figure out all the abbreviations, but so far this is what I have: Original: GOTTSCHALCK--Saxe (An., 7, oct. 1752 at 3 dec. 1804) Ec.:aux 1 et 4 d'arg. a une grue de gu., avec sa vigilance d'or; au 2 d'azur a quatre bes. d'or, 2 et 2; au 3 d'azur a trois bes, d'or; 2 at 1. C, : la grue. D'arg. et d'or. Dave' translation > GOTTSCHALCK -- Saxony (Year, 7, Oct. 1752 At 3 DEC 1804) Ec.:aux 1 and 4 of > arg. has a crane of gu., with its gold vigilance; to the 2 of azure has four > bes. of gold, 2 and 2; to the 3 of azure has three bes, of gold; 2 At 1. C,: > the crane. Of arg. and of gold. My translation (not guaranteed!): GOTTSCHALCK -- Saxony (Year, 7, Oct. 1752 At 3 DEC 1804) Ec: with 1 and 4 of argent (silver/white) has a red crane, with a gold vigilance (stone); Quarter 2 is blue (azure) and has four gold bezants (circular gold disks) two above two. Quarter 3 is blue (azure) and has three gold bezants (circular gold disks) 2 above 1. C,: the crane. Of silver. and of gold. [This means the shield is divided into quarters - with the background color of quarters 1 and 4 (top left, bottom right) being silver , with a red crane holding a gold stone (vigilance). The crane is the symbol of vigilance. The bird held a stone in one foot. If he fell asleep while on watch the stone would fall and awaken him. Note: Silver was white and gold was yellow.] I'm not sure what the Ec: or C: mean . The next one: original GOTTSCHALK--Prusse. D'arg. a trois pommes de grenade d'or, ouv. de gu. translator: Gottschalk -- Prussia. Of silver has three apples of gold grenade, ouv. of gu My translation: Gottschalk -- Prussia. Of silver (background) has three pomegranates of gold, open? of red. [The pomegranate - the fruit is a symbol of fertility and prosperity. I think this means the gold fruit is open showing the red interior.] I'm working on the others. I'm guessing at a few of the abbreviations. My French dictionary walked off, so I'm having problems! Karla Mahlberg Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:30:42 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: [Fwd: What's up around here] My grandson from Anchorage is touring the far east maybe the world before he gets done. What follows is his answer to a grilling by his mom, Dianne Gudgel Holmes. His description might be of interest to you. He is no in Singapore. Kurt is my wifes relative who lives there. -- Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:51:19 +0800 From: Dominic Tan To: cholmpp@corecom.net, ralphj@eskimo.com Subject: What's up around here Some of this is for Dianne, but I thought you might be interested in knowing what I'm up to, Grandma and Grandpa. Subject: Halloween The list has been quite so lets liven it up with a history of halloween -------------------------------------------- CANADA FIRST IMMIGRATION REFORM COMMITTEE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CIH SAMHAIN -- CELTIC ROOTS OF HALLOWE'EN http://canadafirst.net/our_heritage/samhain/index.html Even a newspaper man, if you entice him into a cemetery at midnight, will believe in phantoms, for every one is a visionary, if you scratch him deep enough. But the Celt is a visionary without the scratching. -- W. B. Yeats, 1888 Fairy and Folk Tales of the Irish Peasantry Rooted in so many different European traditions, it's curious to think that Hallowe'en may be the holiday that best embodies the persistence of our culture. All Europeans observe some version of this celebration of night and the unconscious; and we do so with a remarkable consistency. The distinctions between England's Bonfire Night and our Hallowe'en are so superficial that common and abiding origins can be discerned almost "without the scratching". Our society may be altered beyond all recognition (not to mention endurance), but we still want our children to experience the kind of Hallowe'en we knew. Hallowe'en is not an official holiday. No one gets the day off work. Yet, year after year, we just go ahead and celebrate anyway. Year after year, allegations of devil-worship and Satanic ritual are quietly ignored. And in a day when so many of our holidays are in retreat, Hallowe'en prospers. What accounts for this decidedly un-Canadian determination to see that it does? In prehistoric Europe, these crucial few days (October 31 to November 2) were redolent with beginnings and endings. By now, the crops were meant to be in, animals would have been brought down from distant pasture, and thanks given for this bounty. Here, past, present and future met to mark, not just the end of summer, but the advent of the Celtic New Year. As with many archaic societies, the Celts' day began at dusk; their year likewise commenced as darkness gathered. While Samhain (Sah-win) -- literally - "the day between years" -- incorporated aspects of our Thanksgiving, their feast was more profound -- a kind of cornucopia of infinite dimension. Samhain was the occasion to honour the ancients and celebrate that most primordial of mysteries -- the conclusion of the growth cycle and the implicit promise of renewal and rebirth encoded therein. Admirers of Eastern philosophy will be disappointed to know that the Celts celebrated the opposing aspects of darkness/light, night/day, cold/warmth, death/life long before the concept of yin and yang was patiently explained to Western dummies. At this time, when distinctions between life and death were obscured, supernatural forces were presumed to extend to the world inhabited by men. At Samhain, souls of the recently deceased set out for their journey to the otherworld. With the veil between the worlds now so thin and permeable, the spirits of departed kinsmen were thought to seek out the warmth and comfort of good cheer as the time for their leave-taking approached. These were not the ghoulish undead of our Hallowe'en fantasies, but enlightened spirit guides and guardians of the wisdom of the tribe. People made offerings of animals, fruits, vegetables -- and fire. Fire was sacred to the Celts and their great bonfires were meant to aid and light the souls on their way (and possibly, to keep them at bay). It was a time of heightened spirituality, of divination, and of fear. It was a dangerous time for men, when ghosts, fairies, and demons might be abroad. This Celtic inheritance is of enormous significance to North Americans because, whether or not we realize it, most of us have Celtic blood running through our veins. At its height during the 3rd century B.C., the Celtic World was enormous; ranging from southern Spain to the Caucausus from the North Sea to the Mediterranean. That great, untamed empire of individualists was unconquered and ununified by any external force (save culture) from its appearance in the 8th century B.C. until the advent of Christianity. Most of us are vaguely aware that the early Christian church accomodated the old Celtic traditions of Yule (Christmas), Ostara (Easter), and Samhain or Hallowe'en (All Hallows Eve), but this was hardly the remarkable concession we moderns might imagine. In a world dominated by natural rhythms, the waxing and waning of sun and moon would tend to dictate division of the year the world over. Indeed, this season was sacred to the ancient Egyptians (worship of Isis), Native Americans (dances), and the Indo-European Hindus (Diwali or New Year). In A.D. 601 Pope Gregory I issued an edict to his missionaries, instructing them to refrain from destroying local objects of worship, and consecrate them to Christ instead. This tolerance was to be short lived. The church came to realize that the mere act of sprinkling a little holy water on pagan rites was insufficient to "rehabilitate" them. It wasn't long before the people's experiences with the old beliefs were condemned as evidence of witchcraft and the old gods came to serve as a template for Satan (a wholly Christian concept). In 1248, Pope Innocent IV founded The Holy Office, better known to us as The Inquisition. By 1484, Pope Innocent VII had appointed Heinrich Kramer and Jakob Sprenger as inquisitors. Their "Malleus Maleficarum" described in exquisite detail, the tortures that might be employed to obtain a confession of witchcraft. Christianity transformed Cernunnos, the horned god of the male aspect, of virility, and protector of woodland animals, into the embodiment of evil, the incubus, Satan The rudiments of our Hallowe'en festivities probably hearken back to our most remote origins: certainly, the donning of costumes, the ritual giving of food, and the preeminence of fire are all elements that would have been familiar to our European ancestors. However, their very persistence over the many intervening centuries indicates that Hallowe'en observances may serve some more vital psychic need. "Celtic society, like all early societies, was highly structured and organized, everyone knew their place. But to allow that order to be psychologically comfortable, the Celts knew that there had to be a time when order and structure were abolished, when chaos could reign. And Samhain, was such a time. Time was abolished for the three days of this festival and people did crazy things, men dressed as women and women as men. Farmer's gates were unhinged and left in ditches, people's horses were moved to different fields, and children would go knock on neighbours' doors for food and treats in a way that we still find today." -- Philip Carr-Gomm, "Elements of the Druid Tradition" Samhain's visceral appeal remains immediate enough to keep today's experts arguing about the nature of the feast. Some modern Christians insist that observances were bloodthirsty (abductions, human sacrifices, a blob of human fat sputtering cosily in a lantern). Modern pagans dismiss this as nonsense, asserting that the feast was profoundly religious, providing an occasion to honour ancestors -- not to increase their numbers. Curiously, both factions are prepared to agree that natural law would have been suspended for the duration. On the eve of Samhain, every home allowed the hearth fire to burn out, whether this was to make the house an unappealingly cold target for ghosts, or to facilitate a ritual relighting of the fires from a sacred source on New Year's Day depends upon your understanding of the holiday's purpose. Resisting subsequent cultural overlays and prohibitions, the most essential features of the old Druidic rites survive to this day. Ironically, even within the church itself, where costumes or vestments are donned, food is ritually given and candles lit to commemorate the souls of the dead. When the Romans conquered Britain, they brought with them their November 1st festival honouring Pomona, goddess of fruiting trees. This accorded with existing Celtic ideas about the worthy apple. The growth cycle of the apple was reckoned such a miraculous thing that Avalon, (that Western land where spirits of the dead dwelled) was distinguished by an abundance of apple trees bearing fruit year round. Divination games with apples were important at Samhain; it was said that the first to "get a bite" bobbing for apples would marry in the coming year. Even good Christian children today recite the alphabet as they twist the stem from an apple to discover the first letter of their beloved's name. Supernatural properties were historically ascribed to the jack-o'-lantern as well. There is a poisonous yellowish-orange mushroom called Jack-o'-Lantern that appears to "glow" in the dark. Jack-o'-lantern was another name for will-o'-the-wisp, fox fire or corpse candle. Called marsh gas by unromantic scientific types, this small flame moving through the darkness must have terrified the ancients. Thus, putting a Jack-o'-lantern in a window to frighten off fairies and other troublemakers was already an old practice when the world was young. Not surprisingly, the most agreeable origin story comes from an Irish folk tale. "Jack" was an incorrigible drunkard and practical jokester who managed to trick Satan into climbing a tree. Once Old Nick was up, Jack carved a cross in the trunk and trapped him there. Then, Jack pressed his advantage (and his luck) to dictate the terms of a deal; if the devil would promise to never tempt him again, Jack might just be persuaded to let him down. Poor Jack. His misdeeds caught up with him right enough when he died. Barred from heaven as a drunken lout, he was equally well-remembered by the devil, who refused him the sanctuary even of hell. When Satan was kind enough to fling a burning ember at the impudent sod, Jack scooped it up for a makeshift turnip lantern. There goes Jack, doomed to wander the cold, dark ways of the netherworld through eternity. Here's living proof that you can't bargain with the devil (though it may be useful to know that there are turnips in hell). When the ideally suited New World pumpkin made its debut, the rusticated turnip was retired. In the eighth century, Pope Gregory III decreed that All Saints' Day should be "moved" from May 13th. The day devoted to all the hallowed ones, "All Hallows" or "All Saints" Day, was now November 1, and the day following that (November 2), "Hallow Tide" or "All Souls" Day was set aside to honour those who had not been saints. Thus, the evening preceeding all this -- (October 31) -- was "All Hallow E'en". "Here we can see most clearly the way in which Christianity built on the pagan foundations it found rooted in these [British] isles. Not only does the purpose of the festival match with the earlier one, but even the unusual length of the festival is the same." Philip Carr-Gomm, "Elements of the Druid Tradition." The tradition of going from house to house wassailing, (caroling in exchange for a reward at each door) was a tradition associated with all the major Celtic festivals, although the "treat" would likely have been of the liquid variety. "Begging" food goes back to mummers and guisers, but really came into its own with the practice of "souling" during the 9th century. On All Souls Day, beggars (and later children) went from house to house in search of "soul cakes" (a lump of bannock bread baked with currants). The donor's pious charity guaranteed the recipient's prayers to speed the souls of dead relations heavenward from purgatory. A similar practice survives today under the Eastern Orthodox rite. On Crete, for example, each family prepares a tureen of boiled wheat "berries", pomegranate seed, raisins, currants and almonds which is carried through the village. At each house, a little is portioned out and a little of that householder's added to the mix. By the end of the day, each villager brings home a (theoretically) identical mixture to honour all the departed. There is nothing intrinsically evil about Hallowe'en. The celebration we know today is equal parts Celtic pagan and Mediaeval Christian prayer ritual. So successfully have they blended that where the one leaves off and the other begins is now impossible to discern. Hallowe'en ought to be that happy circumstance where the Christian overlay complements older practices, but the one seems to be eternally damned at the eternal expense of the other. The annual Hallowe'en squabble guarantees that another feast utterly unique to us is hobbled, thanks to our imperfect understanding of our own heritage. It's especially galling that those who would treat a gaggle of candy-munching miniature ghouls and ballerinas like devil worshippers are the very people who most deplore the loss of that other sacred pagan/Christian tradition -- Christmas. Unfortunately, this is all as predictable as a flea-tormented dog snapping at its own tail. What can we expect when every one of our traditions either "excludes" or "exploits" somebody, hurts somebody else's feelings, or (the worst sin of all) keeps OUR culture viable and fertile. Are fundamentalists NOT offended when uncostumed little new Canadians come calling at their door for the free candy? It's a growing trend, and one that casts an entirely new, bittersweet light on the phrase "trick or treat". For pagan and Christian alike, this was a time of remembering and reverence for those who came before us. However, since it seems to need emphasis, it was also an opportunity for people who lived short, hard lives to look to their full larder, to laugh at the devil and tweak his nose. It was supposed to be fun. The great secret about Hallowe'en is this: the very act of remembering the dead means that you are not yet numbered among them. That ought to be irreverent enough for anyone. SAMHAIN -- CELTIC ROOTS OF HALLOWE'EN http://canadafirst.net/our_heritage/samhain/index.html Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:39:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Halloween Stories? Hi everybody- Sorry I have been away from my research and my computer a lot lately. We have been moving our District Court offices this week and so I have been busy with those things. The move is completed and we are so thrilled with it all. Our first Court will be held Monday and as the Southerners would say..."We are really uptown" :) Thanks Doyal, for the story about Halloween. Anyone want to tell about what your family/families did for Halloween? I think it's a holiday that no one ever gets too big to enjoy. I have many fond memories of dressing up and going trick-or-treating, carving pumpkins, etc. Remember the face masks that you couldn't see out of very good and they were hot. And the outfits were always homemade or whatever you could find. I once ran into a brace wire for a telephone pole while cutting through someone's yard. Didn't do that again. That wasn't fun. Sometimes our local county schools would have a Halloween Party and that was always fun. After going to all of our neighbors and friends homes, we would go home and my two brothers and I would empty out our "loot" to see who got the best stuff. Back then we used brown paper bags, which were okay, except occasionally we got a banana or apple that would get a little juicy by the end of the evening. We traded our favorite candies and always ate the best first! Back then we didn't worry about people putting things in our treats that would harm us. By the time I had my own children we were more cautious. I have memories of a few homes we visited when trick-or-treating where the adult of the house would dress up and decorate their house, etc. too and sometimes they would scare us instead! I have a confession to make. When we got too big to go trick-or-treating we did our own mischief. I remember my brothers doing things like hanging dummies in trees or in the country road waiting for a car to come along. What fun they had! Would scare the wits out of some innocent people. Well, when I was about 13 or 14 a bunch of us girls would steal pumpkins off of people's porches. Can't believe I did that! Sometimes we would squash them for fun. Don't ask me why...maybe just to see if we could get by with it. It was all in fun then but I dealt with that when my own girls were younger and I didn't find it very funny, especially when they had worked so hard to carve the pumpkins and then I had to clean it up off the street. Okay, I have confessed my ultimate sin, so who is next? I still laugh to myself when I think how fun it was then :) Linda from Kentucky (P.S. Please don't tell my children about this :) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:51:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Halloween and bounced mail First, coxma@cmi.k12.il.us is having mail bounced back because of, it appears, a full mail box. Now, Halloween. I remember going trick or treating when I was very young (195?) and my sister, Dianne, escorting me around the neighborhood. I also remember that it was raining that night and my bag of goodies broke and everything fell out. I cried. Bob Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:11:23 -0800 From: Dianne To: Bob Gudgel Subject: Re: Halloween Yeah, I remember trick or treating into my teen yrs (actually I still do but under the excuse of escorting little kids around so the moose won't stomp on them). But anyway, some other kids in the neighborhood peppered my car with eggs and it was a mess and I called up the kid's parent to complain and get them to clean the car, but they wouldn't. Teens had no power then. Dianne From: "Smitty Crossfield" Subject: tick-tack Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 09:35:40 -0400 Is there anyone old enough on the list to know that it is to TICKTACk a house especially on Halloween? Smitty Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:30:37 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Halloween Doyal Gudgel When you kids were growing up we would have droves of kids coming to the door for treats. They would come for miles around to our area to get in on the fun. YOur mom would make popcorn balls, buy candy, give apples and make it quite a night. Now people are frightened to do much more than give coupons for doughnuts at Albertsons. Then when you graduated and left, the area was devoid of young people. There was little trick or treating. Sometimes just two or three. But now a new generation is moving back as your parents generation is moving to rest homes, Arizona or dying out. We are getting more and more trick and treaters. Wont be all that long before they will occupy this old house. Not as long as I can do 10 miles a day on my bicycle though. Doyal Gudgel Dianne wrote: > > Yeah, I remember trick or treating into my teen yrs (actually I > still do but under the excuse of escorting little kids around so > the moose won't stomp on them). But anyway, some other kids in > the neighborhood peppered my car with eggs and it was a mess and > I called up the kid's parent to complain and get them to clean > the car, but they wouldn't. Teens had no power then. > > Dianne Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:38:03 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Ticktack Is there anyone old enough on the list to know that it is to TICKTACk a house especially on Halloween? Smitty I'm old enough but dont. I'll ask Kay when she gets up. Doyal Gudgel Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:47:33 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Halloween Stories? Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > > Thanks Doyal, for the story about Halloween. Anyone want to tell about what > your family/families did for Halloween? > > I think it's a holiday that no one ever gets too big to enjoy. I have many > fond memories of dressing up and going trick-or-treating, carving pumpkins, > etc. Don't women stilldto every day? Only they call it putting on their make up? Doyal Gudgel Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:47:07 -0700 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Gudgels in the Civil War This is a very dry history of the 58th Regiment of the Indiana Volunteers that the brothers of Henry T Gudgel volunteered for in the war between the states. By looking in the Compendium of the War of Rebellion the official records of the Civil war you can get reports of the actual battles referred to here in this history., Henry was in Illinois during the time the brothers volunteered, actually he had already died and this might have been the reason for the brothers volunteering to "Fight the Rebels.". This regiment had extensive combat and was with Sherman on his march to the sea. When I have more time I'll get some details of what hardships these men experienced which all soldiers go through in any war. It doesn't get any easier. You never feel more helpless as a soldier with no ability to affect you destiny. You really are just a number. The brothers came out of the war with health problems. Although some managed to live for quite a period of time with them. When I was researching the war I read the actual records compiled in the compendium but it has been some time and I will have to refresh my memory. Now it will be easier as the computer should be a lot of help. I hope the compendium is available on CD rom but don't know if I can afford it. It is scores of volumes of small print about 1000 pages each. So suppose it would be horribly expensive. Doyal ============================================================================= 58th Regiment Infantry Organized at Princeton and Indianapolis, Ind., November 12 to December 22, 1861. Ordered to Kentucky December 29, and duty at Bardstown and Lebanon, Ky., until February, 1862. Attached to 21st Brigade, Army of the Ohio, January, 1862. 21st Brigade, 6th Division, Army of the Ohio, to September, 1862. 15th Brigade, 6th Division, 2nd Corps, Army of the Ohio, to November, 1862. 1st Brigade, 1st Division, Left Wing 14th Army Corps, Army of the Cumberland, to January, 1863. 1st Brigade, 21st Division, 21st Army Corps, Army of the Cumberland, to October, 1863. 2nd Brigade, 2nd Division, 4th Army Corps, Army of the Cumberland, to April, 1864. Unattached Pontooneers, Army of the Cumberland and Army of Georgia, until July, 1865. SERVICE.--March through Central Kentucky to Nashville, Tenn., February 10-March 1, 1862. March to Savannah, Tenn., March 18-April 6. Battle of Shiloh, Tenn., April 6-7. Advance on and siege of Corinth, Miss., April 29-May 30. Pursuit to Booneville May 31-June 12. Buell's Campaign in Northern Alabama and Middle Tennessee along line of the Memphis & Charleston Railroad June to August. Little Pond, near McMinnville, August 30. March to Louisville, Ky., in pursuit of Bragg August 30-September 26. Pursuit of Bragg to Loudon, Ky., October 1-22. March to Nashville, Tenn., October 22-November 7, and duty there until December 26. Advance on Murfreesboro December 26-30. Lavergne December 26-27. Battle of Stone's River December 30-31, 1862, and January 1-3, 1863. Duty at Murfreesboro until June. Middle Tennessee (or Tullahoma) Campaign June 23-July 7. Occupation of Middle Tennessee until August 16. Passage of the Cumberland Mountains and Tennessee River and Chickamauga (Ga.) Campaign August 16-September 22. Expedition from Tracy City to the Tennessee River August 22-24 (Detachment). Occupation of Chattanooga, Tenn., September 9. Near Lee and Gordon's Mills September 17-18. Battle of Chickamauga September 19-20. Siege of Chattanooga September 24-November 23. Chattanooga-Ringgold Campaign November 23-27. Orchard Knob November 23-24. Mission Ridge November 25. Pursuit to Graysville November 26-27. March to relief of Knoxville, Tenn., November 28-December 8. Operations in East Tennessee until April, 1864. Reenlisted January 24, 1864. Assigned to duty in charge of the Pontoon Trains of General Sherman's Army April, 1864, and performed all the bridging from Chattanooga to Atlanta, from Atlanta to the sea, and in the Campaign through the Carolinas. Atlanta Campaign May 1 to September 8, 1864. Demonstrations on Rocky Faced Ridge May 8-11. Battle of Resaca May 14-15. About Dallas May 25-June 5. About Marietta and Kenesaw Mountain June 10-July 2. Nickajack Creek July 2-5. Chattahoochie River July 5-17. Peach Tree Creek July 19-20. Siege of Atlanta July 22-August 25. Flank movement on Jonesboro August 25-30. Battle of Jonesboro August 31-September 1. Pursuit of Hood into Alabama October. March to the sea November 15-December 10. Siege of Savannah December 10-21. Campaign of the Carolinas January to April, 1865. Non-Veterans mustered out December 31, 1864. March to Washington, D.C., via Richmond, Va., April 29-May 20., Grand Review May 24. Moved to Louisville, Ky., June, and there mustered out July 25, 1865. Regiment lost during service 4 Officers and 60 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded and 2 Officers and 192 Enlisted men by disease. Total 258. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Tick-Tacking a house on Halloween Well, in answer to Smitty's question about tick-tacking a house, I asked my husband, Gary, who seems to have been very mischievious as a youngster, and he said he knew what it was. I have never heard of it myself, but he said he has done it (why would I have thought otherwise? ). He said you take a nail and and tie a cotton sting on it. Push the nail up under a board of a wooden house and hold the other end of the string. Rub powdered roisin on your hands real good and run your hand over the string. He says it will sound like the house is coming apart. Said he only did it twice. The first time he had a ball with it and the second time he nearly got shot--so that was the end of his tick-tacking a house. Smitty-tell me if this is right. Told you all he was mischievious :) Linda Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:07:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Tick-Tacking a house on Halloween >From: "Smitty Crossfield" >To: "Linda Gudgel Finnell" >Subject: Re: Tick-Tacking a house on Halloween >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:31:42 -0400 > >Yep, you are right. I wouldn't do something like that now cause you would >get shot or sued. Glad Gary knew about it. Thanks Gary. Yes, I have done >it several times. The household comes boiling out of the house. It sounds >like the house is coming apart. It is one godawful sound. If you want to >send this on to the list do so. Lil Bit is the chewingist pup we have >ever had. Surely those sharp baby teeth will soon drop out. TTYL Smitty > >---------- >> From: Linda Gudgel Finnell >> To: GUDGEL-List@eskimo.com >> Subject: Tick-Tacking a house on Halloween >> Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 8:39 PM >> >> Well, in answer to Smitty's question about tick-tacking a house, I asked >my >> husband, Gary, who seems to have been very mischievious as a youngster, >and >> he said he knew what it was. I have never heard of it myself, but he >said >> he has done it (why would I have thought otherwise? ). >> >> He said you take a nail and and tie a cotton sting on it. Push the nail >up >> under a board of a wooden house and hold the other end of the string. >Rub >> powdered roisin on your hands real good and run your hand over the >string. >> He says it will sound like the house is coming apart. Said he only did >it >> twice. The first time he had a ball with it and the second time he >nearly >> got shot--so that was the end of his tick-tacking a house. >> >> Smitty-tell me if this is right. Told you all he was mischievious :) >> Linda >> >> > > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:36:55 -0900 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Tick-Tacking a house on Halloween Dear fellow relatives, Now tell me exactly how long does this string have to be? I presume it must be held taut? And I guess you are describing rubbing it like a violin string? Do I have it right? I want to make sure I have the recipe down correctly ( for posterity of course). Dianne From: "Smitty Crossfield" Subject: Diana Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:24:26 -0500 To fellow relatives The length of the string should be such as to provide a safe place to operate. Such as a tree,big bush, or ditch. When the householder comes out you want to be able to make tracks out of there without being seen. Yes, string should be taut.Instead of putting rosin on the string and rubbing with your hand use a small bit of the rosin and rub it on the string. Have a happy Smitty in Ky. where these things happen Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:06:13 -0900 From: Dianne Subject: Searchable CDs Cousins, I have been trying to find out if anyone is or has put the soundexes and census records on-line or CD. I asked Cyndi and she hinted that Heritage Quest was about to do it. Of course the reply I got from them is a bit guarded, but I read into it that they ARE doing it. Does anyone closer to the source know more? Anyway, I know it will be expensive, but oh will it save time--if indeed it is a "searchable" database of data. Dianne Dear Dianne, I cannot comment on products that are under development until they are officially announced; however, I can tell you that Heritage Quest continues in a massive indexing effort and new products are forthcoming in the very near future. Regards, Roy E. Collins Director of Marketing ================================ ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:29:26 -0900 From: Dianne To: techsupport@HeritageQuest.com Subject: can't get through on other feedback site I am trying to find out if it is true you are putting out searchable CD the soundexes of the federal censuses. If so, I would like to know the details, when, how much and what exactly will be digitized. Thank you, Dianne Holmes Roy E. Collins Director of Marketing Tel: 801-298-5358 ext. 574 Fax: 801-298-5468 Web: www.heritagequest.com Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:34:30 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Unidentified subject! Hi everybody! I got a long awaited response to a query today. I had been looking for information on a GUDGELL Cemetery in Carroll Co., MO listed as "destroyed" on the MO GenWeb pages. Seems no one could tell me anything about it until now. A gentleman emailed me and said he was responding to my query through the Carroll Co., MO Genealogical Assoc. (guess someone else forwarded it to them!). This gentleman lives within a 1/2 mile of the location and he continues to say: "It was probably destroyed by the original landowner and there is no known inventory of burial sites. Other names listed are JOHNSON, ROSS, and LANE. Big oak tree in cemetery at one time with tombstones laid up against it. Tree is missing now. There was a white picket fence around the cemetery. Church at location at one time close to GUDGELL Creek. Probably school house here at one time. I visited with a lady this morning that used to pick flowers at the cemetery site when she was a young girl." He went on further to say if I wanted more info. to get in touch via email or to call him at a designated time. I have emailed him and am anxious to hear from him. I am sure somewhere there are bounf to be records of these burials. I'll keep you posted! Linda Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:37:23 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Emma Sarah Sevedge Gudgel Anyone have the proof that Emma the wife of Thomas Wiley Gudgel. Son of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel was actually a Sevedge? I am looking into a statement that she was not a Sevedge. Will post the information if someone can prove she was a Sevedge. Or was not a Sevedge for that matter. This is dynamite. Then may be just a little firecracker!!!! From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:54:42 EST Subject: re: Emma Sarah Sevedge Gudgel Doyal, Sorry, but I have very little information on Emma Sarah Sevedge Gudgel. What I do have I received from my Aunt Pearl "Gudgel" Brokofsky. I will include what I have, but I have no documentation for any of it other than for the name and birth date for Thomas Wiley Gudgel. Thomas Wiley Gudgel Wed Emma Sarah Sevedge Born Feb. 20, 1869 Jan. 30, 1892 Born Feb. 22, 1875 Springfield, MO. Jack Co., Texas Denton County., TX. Died June 9, 1934 Now Madill, Okla. Died Aug. 16, 1960 Buried Plainsburg Cemetery, Merced Co., Chowchilla, Calif. Thomas Wiley and Emma Sarah, were married at Jack County Texas, which is now Madill, Oklahoma by Emma's Grandfather, a Baptist preacher. This was Indian territory, and their first three children were born there. No help there. Sorry. If I run across anything I will let you know. Dave Gudgel From: "McArdle, Karin M., Ms., DAPE" Subject: Hello Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:11:11 -0500 Hello - I just found the list through the good graces of Linda Finnell & couldn't be happier. My great-grandmother was Eliza Jane Kirk Farmer Gudgel, the second wife of Levin Wilson Gudgel, son of Elvira Wallace & Andrew Gudgel in Gibson Co, IN. Eliza Jane was the widow of Embree C. Farmer when she married L.W. in 1917 -- she died in 1944; L.W. died some time earlier. I also trace Gudgel family connects to the Wallace & Baldwin families in Gibson Co -- I look forward to sharing this information with all of you & learning more about this fantastic family -- Thanks in advance: Karin Harper McArdle. Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:09:37 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Research trip-Joel GUDGEL descendants Hi Everybody! I didn't tell you I was going to finally go to Henderson Co., KY on Sunday-was afraid I might jinx the trip since it had fallen through before. This was a descendant of Joel GUDGEL, brother of Elijah GUDGELL, Sr., and son of Jacob, and grandson of our old Andrew. It is a three hour trip to Henderson, which is located on the Ohio River and right across the river from Evansville, IN. Just a little south of Gibson Co., IN where our old Andrew is buried. My husband decided on Saturday that it might be a good weekend to go (also a good excuse to drive his new truck I'm sure ). So I called Betty GUDGEL HINDMAN (dau. of James Davidson GUDGEL and Annie BARRON), and from there it was a "go". The weather was beautiful and the leaves are just peaking in color in that area so we did pick a perfect weekend. The land in that area sure does flatten out more than I realized. Lots of corn crops that had just been harvested. (You guys who live away from my area in central Kentucky must remember that we are noted for our hills!). The visit was very enjoyable and we did go through the collection of pictures, etc. that had belonged to her mother, Annie BARRON GUDGEL. I also got to meet Betty's sister, Helen GUDGELL VAUGHT. There is a brother also, James GUDGELL. Another brother William Edward GUDGELL is deceased. All of this family lives on the original tract of land that was owned by their parents. The unfortunate part of my visit is that she had so many pictures that were not identified but were excellent pictures. Unless they were identified she had no idea who they were and sad to say, there is no one left to tell us. She was gracious enough to offer to let me take the ones I wanted to copy and said I could send them back to her. It was Sunday and there wasn't any place open to get them copied anyway. These are some of the pictures, etc. that I brought home: Orville GUDGELL=picture Ruth Love, dau. of Kate GUDGELL and James LOVE.-picture James Davidson GUDGELL-picture William "Buck" GUDGELL and bro., Frank GUDGELL-picture Dan E. GUDGELL-picture Lula BARRON HUNTON, Helen GUDGELL BARRON & Annie BARRON GUDGELL-picture Lou GUDGELL-picture A letter from Dan GUDGELL, Kingston, MO, 1922, to Helen GUDGELL BARRON. Obituary of William Edward GUDGELL-April, 12, 1966 2 pictures of Daniel GUDGELL's old Blacksmith shops in Henderson Co., KY. Obit. of James Davidson GUDGELL. Telegraph envelope addressed to Lena GUDGELL HANEY of East ST. Louis, IL (she is a grandaughter of Joel GUDGELL). Picture of Dr. James E. GUDGEL, Cynthiana, Indiana. I also brought 5 tintype pictures to copy. No identification but I couldn't pass them up. Maybe later I can identify them. So I will let you all know when I have been able to put some of this family together. Right now my head is swimming with names, dates, etc. She said someone else in the family had the old Family Bible so I must find out who/where it is. Will keep you posted. Am having a hard time trying to work in some research time right now....what's that old saying...."A job is okay, but it gets in the way of genealogy". My husband, Gary, and Betty's husband, Joe, were able to watch a ballgame on T.V. and catch a few zzz's on the sun porch while we were going through all of this stuff. Isn't he a jewel? Also want to say welcome to Karen Harper McCardle. She has a lot to share with us and hope we can help her out. Good night all. Linda Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 23:10:43 -0900 From: Chuck To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: old photos--good lesson for us all Linda, Thanks for taking that trip and getting the photos that you did. I hope this can be a lesson to all of us--caption those photos NOW. I am as guilty as anyone--we have dozens of uncaptioned photos laying around and I know one or two of you do too--right? How about scanning the old back and white photos? I know there was a special photo stop here who took color negatives and slides (35mm only) and put them on a CD for only $1.50 each. I thought that was pretty good and there was 5 degrees of density that could be used when extracting each negative. But the place went out of business. I am sure most of the rest of the world has this capability too. In fact, I heard that Sam's Club photo dept has the ability to send off negatives and put them on CD even cheaper than $1.50 each. Dianne G-H Anchorage Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:31:11 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Source of Information Quite a few years ago I corresponded with a lady in Owensville who was a clerk or something in Gibson County. Anyone who gets near Evansville Indiana should go to the Library there. Said they kept records way back into the 1800's She dug up some for me. Doyal Gudgel -- Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:53:50 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Special Genealogy Joke Thought you guys might enjoy this little bit of humor. Actually it came from the Fayette Co., PA mail list. Linda > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Jake and Saul are two old retired widowers who reside close to each >other >and do constant welfare checks on each other. Much of their relationship >is >based on pragmatism rather than real friendship or personal affection. > >One day, as he drinks his morning coffee, Saul opens the morning paper >and >turns to the 'Obits' page. > >He gets the shock of his life when he sees his own obituary in the >column. >He realizes that the query for info on him by the local newspaper >several >months earlier, was in preparation for this event. He correctly surmises >that it is a mistaken entry from their database, premature and >erroneous.. > >It still excites and rankles him, so he calls Jake up. "Jake, are you >up >yet?" > >Jake sleepily answers, "Yeah, but I'm only now starting my coffee." > >"Jake. open the newspaper to page 31." > >"Why, what's in the paper?" > >"Jake, get the paper and open it to page 31 NOW!" > >"Ok, Ok, I've got the paper here, so what's in page 31?" > >"Jake, open the paper to page 31 already!" > >"All right, don't be such a pain in the butt so early in the morning >already. So, what's on page 31 that's so important?" > >"Jake, look at the bottom of column 4." > >"Why? What's that story on?" > >"Jake, read the story on the bottom of the column already!" > >"OK, OK, I'll start reading the column if you stop yelling in my ear!" > >The paper rustles for a few seconds, then a long silent pause ensues. >Finally, Jake comes on the line quietly and fearfully, "So Saul, where >are >you calling me from right now?" > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > :)!!!!!! >-- >Edward Earl DUNLEVY, List Owner- mailto:cardoc@hhs.net >PAFAYETT-L@rootsweb.com , and DUNLEVY-L@rootsweb.com Mailing Lists >Searching Surnames: AUMAN-BAKER-BALSINGER-BROWN-BYERS-COLETTI-CORNISH- >CROFCHECK-DANNELS-DUFF-DUNLEVY-DUNN-ENDSLEY-FRANKS-GALLAGHER-GRIMES- >KILLIAN-LOSH-McCOY-McGAVITT-McCAFFERY-McMILLEN-MOORE-NARY-PARSHALL- >PHILLIPS-PRESTON-RIFFLE-SKERA-STARON-TATE-TERRAVECCHIA-WATERS-WEBB- >WHITE-ZIMMERMAN >---- > > >==== PAFAYETT Mailing List ==== >The National Road Heritage Park: http://www.hhs.net/nrhp/main.html > > GUGEL from bgudgel@eskimo.com (this didn't make it to the archive by itself) I just got this Email. Anybody know anything that would help? Bob From Cree43@aol.com Sat Nov 7 09:48:06 1998 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:25:31 EST From: Cree43@aol.com To: bgudgel@eskimo.com Subject: Gugel Good morning. I was given some information and I was wondering if you could help me. This branch of the tree just sprouted and I am totally lost. Margaret Gugel married John Gotlieb Zitterauer one child Margaret Hannah Zitterower. Do you know of Her? Please help me if you can. teri Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:21:08 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Boundary Dispute between PA & VA and its impact on/in Fayette County records Cc: DOCJAZP@worldnet.att.net I thought this may be of interest to us as we search for early records of our old Andrew GUDGEL. This helps to explain why we have had such a hard time finding records of the family in Fayette Co., PA....but Bucks Co., PA is another story . Linda >Return-Path: >Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:58:13 -0500 >From: Jane McCann Walsh >Organization: Jane McCann Walsh at home in PA >Subject: Boundary Dispute between PA & VA and its impact on/in Fayette County > records > >Hi Folks, >With an apology first to Bob Combs who will have received the essence of this >post on the Combs list, I want to share with you what I've learned today after >reading, digesting, and synopthesizing twelve pages of text pertaining to this >subject, the VA-PA boundary dispute. We have had brief explanations of this >dispute shared with us, but upon a careful reading of Ellis, I am beginning to >believe that the essence of Fayette County was shaped by this early period of >confusion. Like the child of feuding, divorced parents, Fayette County began >its existence under a cloud of turmoil. No wonder its early records are >non-existant or confused. This background also provides an interesting >background to the subsequent Whiskey Rebellion which occured in 1794. I hope >that you find the following as enlightening as I did. > >I am quoting directly from Franklin Ellis' "History of Fayette County >Pennsylvania" L.H. Everts & Co., Philadelphia, 1882, pp. 114-125: >______________________________________________________________________ >Through a period of about thirty years from the time when the first white >settlements were made between the Monongahela and Youghiogheny Rivers there >existed a controversy (which more than once threatened to break out into open >hostility) between Pennsylvania and Virginia as to the ownership of the country >lying to the westward of the Laurel Hill, both governments at the same time >vigorously asserting their respective rights to jurisdiction over the territory >in question. This dispute was partly in regards to the location of the >east-and-west line forming the boundary between the two provinces (afterwards >States). But chiefly in reference to the establishment of the western boundary >of Pennsylvania, which would also be the eastern boundary of Virginia in that >latitude. . . . > >The Virginia county of Augusta was erected in November, 1738, to embrace all the >western and northwestern parts of that colony, including (as was then supposed >by her legislators) an immense territory that is now in Pennsylvania west of the >meridian of the western boundary of Maryland. According to the Virginia claim, >then, the jurisdiction of Augusta County for about thirty-eight years after its >formation extended over all the present county of Fayette, except a strip on its >eastern side, and over all the territory between the Monongahela and Ohio >Rivers. > >In October, 1776 the General Assembly of Virginia enacted that a certain part of >the territory of Augusta County. . . [be separated into three new counties.]. . >. . Monongalia County embraced the southern and southwestern portion of the >present county of Fayette; . . . the northern and northeastern part was covered >by Yohogania County, and . . . the division line between these two was marked by >Braddock's road from the eastern limit as far northwest ast the Big Rock on the >summit of Laurel Hill, and thence by "Dunlap's path," or road, passing a little >south of Uniontown, to the mouth of Dunlap's Creek. From there the boundary >between Yohogania and Monongalia continued westward, nearly along the line of >the later National road, about two-thirds the distance across the present county >of Washington, to the east boundary of Ohio County. This county extended from >the said eastern limits westward to the Ohio River. > >Prior to the erection of the new counties, courts had been held at Fort Dunmore >for the old county of Augusta, and the records of those courts are still in >existence. [Note: this book was published in 1882.] The first record is of a >court held at the place named on the 21st of February, 1775, and the last Nov. >20, 1776. In the mean time a primitive court-house had been built for Augusta >County at "Augusta Town," a prospective village about two miles west of the site >of the present town of Washington, Pa. > >Upon the formation of the three new counties, courts were immediately >established for them. Of the three Virginia counties, only one - - - Monongalia >- -- held its courts within the present limits of Fayette. Its court-house was >located on land of Theophilus Phillips, near New Geneva. How long the courts >were held there is not known, as no records of them can new be found. The >court-house of Ohio county was at Black's Cabin, near West Liberty. The records >of Yohogania County have been preserved, and are now in possession of a >gentleman of Washington, Pa. They show that the first court of that county was >held at Fort Dunmore (Pitt) Dec. 23, 1776, and that the courts continued to be >held there until Aug. 25, 1777. They were then held at the house of Andrew >Heath for about two months, and after that (until 1781) at the new court-house >"on the plantation of Andrew Heath." This was on the west side of the >Monongahela, a short distance above, and in sight of the present town of >Elizabeth. The statement has frequently been made that the Yohogania court was >at one time held at Redstone Old Fort, but this is a mistake, doubtless growing >out of the fact that a board of Virginia commissioners sat at that place in the >winter of 1779-1780 for the purpose of deciding on land claims and issuing >certificates to settlers. > >Finally, when the long controversy between the two States was settled by the >assignment of the disputed territory to Pennsylvania, the counties of Monongalia >and Ohio, through greatly reduced in area, still retained their names as >counties of Virginia (as they are of West Virginia at the present time) but >Yohogania, whose limits were wholly within the territory yielded to >Pennsylvania, ceased to exist, and was thenceforward mentioned as Virginia's >"lost county." > >The running of Mason and Dixon's line was the final establishment of the >boundary between Pennsylvania and Maryland, but it established nothing with >regards to the line between the former State and Virginia. . . . > >But it was the establishment of the west line of Pennsylvania that was regarded >by each party [PA and VA] as of the greatest importance, for each was anxious to >secure Pittsburgh and the Monongahela country. On the 21st of April 1774, the >Pennsylvania Council appointed . . . commissioners to confer with the Governor >of Virginia with a view to promote a settlement of the boundary. . . . > >[Negotiations were held; approaches disputed. The Revolution occurred, so the >discussions terminated. In the meantime each side recruited militia from this >disputed territory and attempted to tax the residents.] > >The first practical official action towards a definite and final settlement was >taken in 1779 by the appointment of . . . commissioners to meet in conference >and determine the boundary. . . . [They agreed to] extend Mason and Dixon's line >due west five degrees of longitude, to be computed from the river Delaware, for >the southern boundary of Pennsylvania, and that a meridian drawn from the >western extremity thereof to the northern limit of said State be the western >boundary of said State forever." > >This agreement of the commissioners was confirmed (upon certain conditions as to >land titles) by the Virginia Legislature June 23, 1780, and by the General >Assembly of Pennsylvania on the 23d of September in the same year. This ended >the long controversy so far as agreement on the location of the boundary was >concerned, but the work of running the line still remained, and this was found >to be a task much more difficult and troublesome than had been expected. . . . > >So many delays occurred (intentional as was believed on the part of Virginia) >that nothing was accomplished in 1781 towards running the temporary line. On >the 2d of March, 1782, Council received . . .[a] report from a committee >appointed to consider the question of running the line. . . . The work was >ordered to proceed, and the first part of June set for the commencement. At the >time named, Col. [Alexander] McClean repaired to the rendezvous, but neither >Commissioner [James] Madison nor the Virginia surveyor, Joseph Neville, >appeared, and an armed party of Virginians who had collected there prevented him >from proceeding with the work. . . . [In a] letter from McClean to President >Moore, of the Council, [McClean writes in June] . . . I am again prevented from >Running the Line. . . . The Lieut. of the County of Westmoreland furnished me >with a guard . . . about Seventy were armed. We proceeded to the Mouth of >Dunkard Creek . . . a party of about thirty horsemen, Armed, appeared on the >opposite side of the River, Damning us to come over, and threatening us to a >great Degree. . . with other Language of menacing; and hearing of a great Number >more who were on their way to their assistance, We held a Council, the Result of >which was to appoint a Committee to confer with them on the Causes of their >opposition. . . . This Mob or Banditti of Villains are greatly increased since >the supply Bill has been published amongst them. . . . In short they Cry against >Taxes in Specie is general, and in any Mode, by a Number of those who formerly >adhered to Virginia, and they think the Running of the line will be a prelude to >and increase the power of Collecting them; Together with the Idea of a New State >[Westsylvania], which is artfully and industriously conveyed (under Coverture) >by some of the Friends of that State, as the only expedient to prevent the >Running of the Line. I have also to inform you that I have the most finished >assurance that they have not the least Desire to Settle the Line in any >equitable manner. . . . > >[McClean continues to describe the "obstinacy" of the Mob. Ellis then quotes >the minutes of meeting between representatives of PA and VA in June 1782, and >then the instructions from the President of the Council to proceed. A temporary >line was run in the fall of 1782.] > >The permanent boundary line was run and established from the Maryland line >westward to the southwest corner of the State of Pennsylvania in 1784. . . >.[This was accomplished only after extensive calculations and numerous >difficulties, including the building of observatories for astronomical >observations so that they could adjust their "chronometers to the true time." >The southern portion of this work was completed and reported Nov. 18, 1784.] >_____________________________________________________________________ > >Regards, >Jane >-- >Jane McCann Walsh, Garland, Rubles Mill Road, Smithfield, PA; >researching primarily: McCAN/McCANN - RUBLE - COMBS/COOMBS - DAVIS >FRANCK/FRANKS - HORMELL/HERMEL - HUGH - JONES; and also @ 2x & 3X: >Alderson-Cline-Coldren-Dougherty-Gauslin/Goslin-Hartman-Inks-Johnson >Keiser-Lewis-Mason-Moore-Overturf-Rhodes-Ross-Routson-Saddler-Stentz > > >==== PAFAYETT Mailing List ==== >Somerset County GenWeb Page is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pasomers/ > > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:04:53 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: DEED 1788-Josiah CRAWFORD, Andrew GUDGEL, Jonas CATLETT I have just transcribed the following Deed to the Fayette Co., PA , mail list in hopes that someone will share more information about the GUDGEL family. Don't think I have ever sent this to this list before so I'm forwarding it instead of retyping it. Linda >Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:46:38 >To: PAFAYETT-L@rootsweb.com >From: Linda Gudgel Finnell >Subject: DEED 1788-Josiah CRAWFORD, Andrew GUDGEL, Jonas CATLETT > >I recently noticed some discussion on the name of Josiah CRAWFORD of Fayette Co., PA and recognized this name from part of an old deed that I have. My interest is in regard to my immigrant ancestor, Andrew GUDGEL. > >If anyone can give me any direction on this I'd be most appreciative. I have hit nothing but brick walls with this family in Fayette Co., PA. it seems. Known related family names were WOODFILL/WOODFIELD and GAUSE. I do have a plat of this land from the Horn Atlas but would like to know more about Andrew GUDGEL, his wife Barbara, and their families. Andrew GUDGEL lived on this property prior to coming to Woodford Co., Kentucky about 1789. Would also be interested to know if someone can explain this Deed to me. >Thanks for ANY help. >Linda GUDGEL FINNELL >Woodford Co., KY > > >Fayette Co., PA >....Bargain, sell and make ____ unto the said Jonas CATLETT and to his heirs and assigns forever That part of a larger tract of Land for which patent and Confirmation was granted unto the said Andrew GUDGEL Senior for Three Hundred and (sixteen?) and a quarter acres of Land and allowance of Six __ Cent for Roads. ___ Situate on the East side of Monongahela in Luzerne Township, County and Commonwealth aforesaid stated the 10th day of June in the year of our Lord one Thousand seven hundred and eighty eight and In____ in the Roll office if said Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in Patent Book number fourteen page two hundred twenty, as well by said Patent and Inrollemnt thereof ___fully and clearly appears to which Reference may be had Beginning for the now sold part at a White Oak and running thence by Land of Jofeph GRABILL >south sixteen degrees east one hundred and eighty perches to a stone corner of land belonging to Friends of Redstone Meeting thence by the same south fifty four degrees, west forty perches to a stone, and South sixteen degrees, East eight perches to a _________, thence by Land of Thomas GREEG south fifty-four degrees West one hundred and seven perches to a post in Jofiah CRAWFORD's line thence by the same, North twenty five degrees West two Hundred and forty one perches to a stone thence by Land of Alexander (NELONS?) North Feventy four degrees East One hundred and seventy six perches to the place of beginning. Containing Two Hundred and a half acres and the allowance of Six __ Cent be the same ______. Together with all and singluar the Buidlings and Improvements thereon erected and made (Ways Waters Liberties ___ ____ Commodities Advantages E___ments and Appurtenances?) whatsoever within the said Bounds and ___ Belonging or ___ ___ and the R____ Remainders Rights ___ and ____ Rights thereof. To have and to Hold the hereby described tract of Land and Premifses granted mentioned or intended so to be and every part and parcel thereof with all and every appurtenances thereunto belonging unto the said Jonas CATLETT and his heirs and afsigns forever and the said Andrew GUDGEL, Sen. and Barbara, his wife, doth by their presents Warrant and forever defend the hereby described Tract of Land and Premifes and every part and parcel thereof unto the said Jonas CATLETT, his heirs and afsigns from all and every Person or Persons lawfully claiming the same by from or under him. Them or either of them and the said Andrew GUDGEL and Barbara, his wife are ____ with a good and lawful Right of Inheritance of in and to the same so as to enable them Lawfully to sell and convey the same in Manner and Form aforesaid. And that they will at any time hereafter when thereunto lawfully required make and Execute any further Afsurance or _____ for the better conveying the Premifses unto them the said Jonas CATLETT, his heirs and afsigns. As he or they or his or there Councils Learned in Law, shall devise, advise or require and that at _____ _____ charge and Expence of them the said Jonas CATLETT, his heirs and afsigns. In Witnefs whereof the said Andrew GUDGEL and Barbara have hereunto set their Hands and Seals the day and year first above written. > >Signed Sealed and Delivered >in the presence of William F_____ & >Alexander NOLAN > >Received the Eighteenth Day of Ocotber. 1788 of Jonas CATLETT the fum of >Six Hundred Pounds Current Money of Pennsylvania being the Consideration money above mentioned in full. >$600.00.00 Witnefs Alexander NOLAN > > his mark >Andrew (X) GUDGEL {Seal} > > her mark >Barbara (X) GUDGEL {Seal} > >FAYETTE Co., Sct....Before me the _____ Justices of the Peace for said County Personally appeared the within named Andrew GUDGEL and Barbara, his wife, and did acknowledge the within Instrument of Writing to be there Act and Deed and desired the same might be recorded according to Law. She being examined separately and apart from her said Husband according to Law did relinquish her claim of Dowry of in and to the within mentioned Premifses and Tract of Land and did declare that she was not induced thereto out of any fear or threats of said Husband or fear of his future displeasure. But that she did the same of her own free will and Voluntary accord. Given under my Hand and Seal this 18th day of October in the year of our Lord One Thousand Seven hundred Eighty eight. > Nat.l' BREDING >Recorded and Compared the 25th Day of December, 1788. > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:53:58 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Veterans Day. I'll get it right. -- In the early fall of 1945 when I was in Melsungen Germany with the Hq Btry 3rd Inf. Div. Arty, occasionally I was to drive an officer to Le Harve France to catch a troop ship home. After the war the army began replacing the older combat veterans. The ordinary GI had to go by truck or what means available for mass transport. Officers got to go by car and driver because the rail system was still in shambles. Trains hardly moving at all. I had the good fortune to be able to go to Le Harve three times as a driver for an officer. Of course we had to go through Paris coming and going. Got lost of coruse two or three days. On the way there was a and still is a military cemetery at St. Avold France with, http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/photo_html/stavold.jpt.JPG at that time, over 25,000 graves of American soldiers. Here is a poor picture as I moved the camera somehow but I think you will get the idea. A grave detail was exhuming bodies of German soldiers and shipping them to Germany making this cemetery only for American soldiers. In the winter and spring of 1945/46 the outfit was moved to Darmstadt Germany just south of Frankfort on Main. In one night a few weeks before the end of the war bombers totally demolished this small town holocausting about 100,000 residents of the city. Here is a picture of a street with the fender of my jeep visible in the left corner. http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/photo_html/darmgnd.jpg.JPG The next picture was taken from the top of the Emil Lugwig statue in the town square. http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/photo_html/darmhigh.jpg.JPG Up until I left in late may 1946 the children would place themselves at the exit of the mess hall to get leftovers. Here is a picture. http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/photo_html/children.jpg.JPG But even in want and rubble kids can have fun. These kids are in Berlin in the rubble. This was taken in October 1945. How they managed to keep so clean looking is beyond me. There was not one house still standing for literally miles around. The water supply must have been working. In May 1946 men being shipped home to the states were housed in tents waiting while being processed. Right among the tents were three graves of German soldiers who were killed and buried in the last few days of the war. They were still there when I went through the depot a year later. This is just one of the three. ftp://ralphj@ftp.eskimo.com/u/u8/r/ralphj/public_html/photo_html/grave.jpg.JPG Surprisingly a year after the war the graves were unmolested by the thousands of GI's who went through the replacement depot. Doyal Gudgel 1998 From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:23:33 EST Subject: Genealogy Files on the Gudgel Web Page I had a thought a couple of days ago (unusual for me) while I was stripping personal data out of a genealogy file to send to someone that I didn't know. I didn't want to send them any personal information on anyone still living, so ran it through a program that strips out all personal information for anyone still living. Since most files have some people in them that are obviously not living (born two hundred years ago for example) and for which there is no death date, you can set a cutoff date, say one hundred years ago, and the program will not delete personal information for anyone in the file that appears to have been born more than one hundred years ago (or whatever cutoff date you set). I have tried several programs that do this, and have found one that seems to work well. If it is OK with everyone, I would be happy to strip the personal information from the files that are on the WEB page and send them back to Bob and he could put them back on the page and open them up for everyone to look at. If anyone wanted the more recent personal information, they could contact the people that originated the files to see if they wanted to provide it. The file that was submitted by Victor Shackleton has already been stripped of personal information, so it would just be the other two from Debbie Lance and Kim Phelps Gudgel. Let me know if what you think of this approach. If you think it would be a good way to handle these files, I will get started. Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:23:31 EST Subject: Hoch's and Gadschalk's Some time ago is sent a list of descendants of Melchior Hoch (born between the late 1650's and the mid 1680's). It included a son named Jacob (born before 1709) who had a daughter named Barbara (born 1737). I was rummaging through a list called the "1734 Philadelphia County Taxables" ??? which stated: "The following list was taken from tax lists of Philadelphia County and presents those persons who in 1734 lived in what is now Berks County, Pa. or in Townships bordering Berks Co." The list included the following which may be of interest to someone some day if you don't already have it. Franconia Twp. - Frederick Gadschalk Hannover Twp. - Melchior Hoch and Jacob Hoch Oley Twp. - Johannes Hoch and Samuel Hoch Just thought I would pass it along. Dave Gudgel From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:02:54 EST Subject: Genealogy Story I heard this story recently at a meeting of the Arizona Genealogical Society. I thought it was funny enough to send along. It is quite different than than the attitude of the father of a young lady I was dating when I was in college. He had recently contracted to have a book prepared on the history of his family. When it arrived, he was a little dissapointed until he came to the section dealing with an ancestor that was hanged as a horse thief. He thought that was wonderful and made the whole effort worthwhile. Anyway, on to the story of Uncle Remus. UNCLE REMUS Janie was working on her genealogy and during her research she identified an uncle by the name of Remus. It seems that Uncle Remus had been a cattle rustler in Montana back in the 1870's and 1880's. He was very successful at this endeavor, but was caught in 1885 and sent to prison for 30 years. He escaped from prison in 1888 and turned to train robbery as his new occupation. He robbed many trains and was very successful at his new profession. Unfortunately, he was again captured in 1891, and was subsequently tried and sentenced to hang for his crimes. He was hanged on October 18, 1891. Janie was not overly enthusiastic about having such a character in her family history, but decided that she must include him. The following is Janie's account of the life of Uncle Remus. "Uncle Remus was in the cattle business in Montana during the 1870's and 1880's. He was a very successful cattleman and had a thriving business. In 1885 he left the cattle industry to devote his time to the public service of the State of Montana. After three years, in 1888, he decided he had contributed enough of his life to the public service and left to enter private enterprise again. This time he entered into a business arrangement with the railroad company. This arrangement proved to be very rewarding and he became widely known for his success. On October 18, 1891 Uncle Remus died, while attending an event being held in his honor, as the result of the collapse of the scaffolding on which he was standing." Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:52:03 -0900 From: Dianne To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Genealogy Files on the Gudgel Web Page Dear Dave, I am not too sure I would want to make it too difficult for people to trace their family to living relatives. It might be fine to do so if it was clearly stated that more recent information was available from such and such a source, but who would deal with it when Bob or whomever is not available to send the information to those who request it? And I guess I am not sure what the danger might be of including the name of the living, if they agree. Have there been incidences that I am not aware of? Now if folks don't want to be included, then by all means, take them off. But I think we have all benefitted greatly by each other's research, stories, and research. I've even enjoyed meeting one of my shirtail cousins. So for me, I would like my information to stay in. How can we contact those who are not on the 'chat list' to ask their opinion? And can we have each of the 'chat list' folks speak up before stripping their information? Dianne Gudgel-Holmes Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:16:17 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: file:///E|/editing html files/emmaletr2.htm

Comment by Doyal Gudgel

In the following comments by Betty Owen Whitehouse she states that she transcribed the letter as Grandma Gudgel wrote it. However I transcribed the letter from Betty with some corrections. Because it was so hard to try to type the misspelling and commas they way it was in the original. So what is wrong is just an accumulation of all three added or subtracted from the original. The meaning is the same. The letter from Sarah Emma Gudgel was written in 1931 just after the whole family arrived in California take a look at the gang that went on this adventure. Opal the prime mover in family history for many years said Emma his mother packed like she would pack a covered wagon. In fact it looked like a wagon with a motor. Read Opals story of what he called "The Migration." The story of why and how the Gudgels moved to California. This was just one of millions of stories of this era in American history. Immigrations and migrations arise mainly because of persecution or economic reasons. This great migration of the late 20's and 30's was no different. A picture of the truck can be found here. Click here to see the people as they started out from Texas.  They had gone down to Texas on their way to California.(Truck here)

All the Years I've seen the name I thought her name was Emma Sarah Sevedge Gudgel. She was called Emma by those who had the right to call her by her first name. But in her listing of family birthdays and deaths she wrote it as Sarah Emma Gudgel. She should know. I will post her page she put in the bible. Genealogy page written by Emma Gudgel This page was not in the original bible. She put it in the bible from another source. Any errors would be by accident. Considerable information about the early Sevedge's and Gudgel's is in the letter. I had the letter for years and didn't really know it had all this information I don't know why. Maybe I did read it when I first got it and had forgotten about it. I think it is a fascinating letter with information not available elsewhere.

Comments typing by:
Betty Owen Whitehouse.
Hattie's's youngest

The following letter was among the keepsakes of Earl Owen. 3rd child of Hatttie Allie Sevedge Owen. He doesn't remember how he came by the letter but did recognize it as an important and vital link to our past and fortunately and wisely saved it all these years.

The Letter written to Hattie by Emma Sevedge Gudgel is in obvious answer to a letter requesting information about their family roots. Hattie, Emmas's youngest sister was then married to Albert Owen and living on their farm in Gladbrook, Iowa. Emmas in El Nido, Calif. It has been typed for easier reading (verbatim) as some of the lettering is very faint. As far as the punctuation, I feel may of the periods are in reality supposed to be commas and are in the right places.
 

The salt cellar that she speaks of was in the possession of Hattie. When Hattie passed away in 1949 Emma emphatically requested she have it. As you can see it must have been on her mind all those years. It was given to her with the understanding that it be returned to Hattie's oldest child retrieved it fro Mary "Tootsie" Schuh. Emmas youngest child. It is now in the possession of Mildred Owen Edwards. Hatties'f 5th child and lovingly cherished, due to it's age and sentimental value. When this letter turned up , we were amazed to find the "salt" described to a "T".

Earl has had the letter xeroxed and passed on to his sisters. He retains the original letter. Hope any who read it will enjoy it as much as we have.
Comments typing by:
Betty Owen Whitehouse.
Hattie's's youngest.
Sept 1984

Chowchilla CA
Picture of Chowchilla here about the 1970's I suppose.  Hasn't changed much in 50 years or so.
Dec. 11, 1931
 

Dear Sister.
Click for
(Picture of Emma Here)

I guess you think I never got your letter, or don't intend to answer.

But I got it and intended on answering at once too. I really want too. Seems to me I have less time for doing things I really want to do than anyb9dy else. I knew it would be take a long letter to tell you all I wanted to write. So I've kept putting your letter off. I wrote Ules and Walter because theirs was short. I was glad to get your letter. And put it away to be sure it never got lost. Cant remember where I put it but will do my best to answer it. Ules said John had been up to Iowa but only stayed 3 weeks and went back to Mo. I never wrote him. - Walter was in

Texas., Verlin still at El Dorado Ark. To keep children in school. Walters address is Overton Texas. In care of Republic Products co. Walter and family visited us this last Aug. 3 years ago.
 

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Well Hattie you ask me to tell you about our parents. Family's. I don't know but very little but will gladly tell you all I know. Pa Picture of T. J. Gudgel never talked about his folks He seemed to enjoy telling us of his Dutch blood. Said his mother was full blooded Dutchman. But I never heard him tell what his fathers nationality was. His mother died when he was 12 or 14 years of age. During the civil war Uncle John Fairchild (Pa's mothers brother ) Picture of John here taken pa to helped his boys work, for pa was about the age of uncle Johns oldest boys and uncle was in the war. I've heard him say he gave grandpa Sevedge ( Bill he called him ) a cor for pa. I don't know how old pa was when he left uncle but I think he was about 18 at close of the war. And maybe it was one year later when he went with a herd of cattle from Central Texas to Colorado. Them times the Indians was giving lots of trouble. I don't think he was in any fight with them, but was scared until his hair pushed his hat off several times.
 

Page 3
 

Fathers William Sevedge parents moved from Ark to Palo Pento co Texas during or about the close of the war. Mothers parents about the same time from Butler co. mo. To Denton Honor County Texas. Pa had 3 brothers I can remember seeing uncle Tom the oldest. Was tall dark complected dark hair brown eyes. Very quiet not much for jokes. Stern but kind and a true Christian. Married 4 times. One of the first 2 wives had a boy. I don't know which one. If he is living he is about my age. His name is Marion. The third wife had 2 girls. All three first wives died and the 4th was left to mourn his death.

The next brother I think just older than pa was Jim. He was killed by a fallen tree or limb of a tree. While yet a young single man. He seemed to have been a great favorite with pa. He used to speak of him often. Then aunt Sarah, she was just younger than pa. No I've not heard of him for 12 or 15 years. Last I heard she was living with John. I think it was west of Ardmore Oklahoma.
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I can remember uncle Joe the youngest child. He was always on aggravation to pa. He was a happy go lucky anything for fun., Talked loud and lots of it. Whether you listened to him or not. Signed his name Savage,. Had light hair light complexion, blue eyes like our Grandpa Sevedge. But grandmother was dark,. Most of her children taken after her. And some of her great grandchildren are still holding to her complexion. Ha. If I'm not mistaken pa was 24 years of age and Ma was 18 when they married. Ma's father (grandma Epps.) married them. He was an old time missionary Baptist preacher. Preached as long as had strength; died somewhere in his eighties. Buried at Post Oak, Jack Co. Texas. You seen him when you was 2 years old. Ethel (Kile) has come to spend the day . No telling when I'll finish this.
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Dear Sis.. This is the 18th and I am going to add some more to my letter. No use to start in a new. If you get it in time for x-mas it will entertain you to solve it. For I know it will be a puzzle. Ha. Back to uncle Joe again. He lived neighbor to us a while in Jack co. Texas. At that time him and his wife had two children (boys) Bucker and Jim he went back to Palo Pento Co. Settled there. Last I heard of him he had quite a lot of cattle was doing well. I think I'll try to find him or some of his boys by writing to Santo Palento co Texas. Our mother was 6 years old when her mother died.
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Grandpa Epps. then lived at Poplar Bluff Mo. After grandmas death. He married a widow by the name of Smart. She had 6 children grandpa 6 of which mother's was the youngest. 3 boys and 3 girls in each set of children. Mothers two sisters was among the oldest children and married before grandpa moved to Texas. And guess there children or part of them still live in Butler co. Mo. Aunt Narcisses married Ezekial Miller Aunt Nan married Amos Williams. Uncle Josh was oldest boy. He may have married in Missouri too. I think we married before.
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close of war. His wife died and left him six little children., 3 boys 3 girls, two sets of twins. I remember them well. They visited us when I was ten years old He never married again. The oldest child Maggie died at our house after we moved to Indian Territory. Uncle Jim left home after mother married and was never heard of again. Uncle Charley never married our hadn't last we knew of him. I don't remember hearing from him after mother died. Grandpa was well to do when war broke out. But like lots of others it broke him up. He had a store. I suppose to Poplar Bluff a big farm. Lots of stock. His place was on the road where the two armies marched over And they taken and destroyed everything. He sold out. Taken confederate money for pay. And of course it died on his hands. After we moved to Indian Territory grandpa had a small tract of land in Denton Co. Texas. Which he sold and divided between his 6 oldest children. Ma bought a lot of things for her house out of it. That big red tin covered trunk I know you remember it. I think she paid about 10 dollars for it. The newest clock a big dinner set with brown leaves on them. I'm sure you seen some of the dishes. After you was grown
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had grandpa picture enlarged. That much you've seen that she paid for. While I think of it do you know what became of her salt stand? It was the only thing (and a feather bed) that she had of her mothers. But she always used it , it was a very thick. Clear Glass. With deep holes around on outsides. About the size of a half of a marble. Set on a bottom like a goblet. But very short stem. I have thought of that little piece tableware so many times. I hope you have it. She cherished it more than anything else. I hate for it to have fallen hands of some one that would not care for it. I seen it when
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I was in Mo. In 1900 I wanted it so bad. But you and Mattie was both there close and I didn't feel I had anymore right to it than you others but Ido think girls should be the ones to keep something like that. I wrote John once about it. Our stepmother kept it in a safe. With other glass dishes. Only used it when extra company come.

Mother had two half brothers quite a bit younger than she was. Probably the oldest was nine or ten year youngest just little boys when she married.
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She seemed to think as much or more of them than her own brothers. The oldest uncle Mart married after grandpa moved to Clay Co Texas. Bought a farm from Pa that he started to improve just a across the co line from Clay. Over in Jack Co and raised his family there. Uncle Isaac the youngest was left to support grandpa and grandma. Went to Dennison Texas got a job at round house. Insisted on grandpa and grandma moving there. They did. To please him but he was killed about a year by a train. Grandpa and grama went back to
page 17
uncle Marts and spent the rest of their days there. Sued the RR co and got a lot of money. Uncle Mart bought more land a lot of cattle he was a good manager was Sheriff (?)a long time. And got to be wealthy. And may still be living.
Appleby was our grandmother maiden name on mothers side. I don't know what nationality the Epps or Applebys either was and dont know where they come from or Mo. Never heard of any other of the name only a cousin of mothers. Tom Epps that spent a year in Texas he
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helped pa make one crop then went back to Mo. He must have been a lot older than any of grandpa's children then so I think probably grandpa was one of the youngest. Of his fathers family. And that is why I never heard them spoke of any more and they had been way from there old home since mother was so small she couldn't remember much I would give a lot if had it , to know the history a way back of our people. We may have learned a lot about fathers family if had only asked uncle John Fairchild. Did you ever hear about Andy and Dint Fairchild's? About three years ago they started just them two in a car. To visit Era. When in about 20 miles of Ears there car was struck by a train. Killed both instantly. Andy had some papers in his pockets that showed he was from Wilson an oilfield next of Ardmore where them 6 most all of them there children lived. So a phone was sent back described them. Willis also died after they all moved to Wilson. Since Andy and Dint died there children scattered. Cilar, Volie, and Ada are in California.

Well, Hattie I hope you
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can read this letter. It is a terrible botch. But my hands gets tried writing quicker than any other work. I can't tell you much about my children this time. Will say Ella lives 7 miles from me has 3 children and a man that treats her well. There older is 12 years old Ethel lives 14 miles. Has 2 children oldest 6 years old. Emma 5 miles from me has 5 children oldest 7 years old (a boy) other 4 girls one pair twins so see she has a bunch of little girls.
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Edna in west Texas has 2, both girls. Older four year old Lloyd lives in Oklahoma. You know he married Cecil Garret. They have 5 children, oldest a boy 12 years old. He is feeling the hard times. But Lloyd can live where some people will starve. And we left them our cattle and 2 good teams. Besides he had about all (teams?) He needed. And several cattle of his own.. Floyd lives 6 miles has 3 children with him older 8 years old.(Note : me, Doyal Gudgel) His wife left him. Sometime I will tell you his story it's too long now.

Love from your sis Emma. Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:01:53 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Correction Correction on one picture caption. The picture named TJ Gudgel should have been Thomas Wiley Gudgel. Husband of Emma who wrote the letter. I think the names are fairly dependable in her letter but dates are another matter. OK for a start. I think it worthwhile to include Opal as he was mentioned in the letter. Opal was the prime mover in keeping the family together. He started the reunions to which over 125 people attended at one time. He wrote a lot of things some of which you already have. Here is a picture of Opal. Tootsie was mentioned so you may enjoy a look at her also. She is still living a little ways outside Chowchilla. Both Opal and Tootsie made the trip to California including yours truly. Bob has it posted on his web page with identify of those who made the trip. This would have been appropriate for Veterans day but I couldn't get it ready. When it could not be determined where Henry T Gudgel was buried the 28th Illinois Infantry Volunteers Reactivated had an honor guard at the laying of a stone next to his widow Sarah Ann Johnson Gudgel. Some day I will post a picture of her. I had an albumen print from Walter Harris. I've had this picture for almost 30 years and it was nearly a hundred years old when he sent it to me. It has faded into almost nothing now. I made a good copy of it as soon as I got it. But then it wasn't very good. Walter is the man in the overalls in the picture with the guard. I owe a lot to him. He also gave me a picture of Sarah Johnson widow of Henry T Gudgel. I had the pleasure of visiting him in 1984 -- Doyal Gudgel (PICTURE (opal.JPG) in mime format from RALPHJ was here Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:20:58 -0900 From: Dianne To: Ralph Johnson Subject: Re: Other reasons for migrating Aside from economic reasons, people move for personal reasons. The last living child of Sarah Emma Sevedge Gudgel is Mary "Tootsie" Gudgel Schuh in Chowchilla, California. Tootsie told me recently that her mother did not want to live in Oklahoma any more because of the death of one of her twin boys, Victor, some years earlier. She said that having other of her children in California was an added reason to move, as was the poor economic condition in Oklahoma, but that her mother would have moved despite it all as she simply didn't want to be around the memories any more. Victor was a young adult and there was an altercation that resulted in his death. Dianne Gudgel-Holmes Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:39:13 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: Dianne Subject: Re: Other reasons for migrating Yes there are other reason but mostly great migrations were the result of economic or persecution. The German or Irish for instance. Grandma no doubt wanted to move but economic reasons was the final push. Otherwise she would have gone earlier. Others hd already left. Like dad and mom for instance. If you knew the poverty in that area you would not doubt the economic reason. This was in the dust bowl days. Most do not know what real poverty is. Welfare is not real poverty as in the days before government handouts. No one starves to death today except by accident. Dianne wrote: > > Aside from economic reasons, people move for personal reasons. > The last living child of Sarah Emma Sevedge Gudgel is Mary > "Tootsie" Gudgel Schuh in Chowchilla, California. Tootsie told me > recently that her mother did not want to live in Oklahoma any > more because of the death of one of her twin boys, Victor, some > years earlier. She said that having other of her children in > California was an added reason to move, as was the poor economic > condition in Oklahoma, but that her mother would have moved > despite it all as she simply didn't want to be around the > memories any more. Victor was a young adult and there was an > altercation that resulted in his death. > > Dianne Gudgel-Holmes From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:58:39 EST Subject: Gottschall, Frederick I just ran across this listing which included a Frederick Gottschall. It obviously can't be the one that had a son named Andrew that died in about 1748, but I had not run across another one before. Just a curiosity. "Berks County Patriots who received "Depreciation Pay" for service in the Continental Line during the Revolutionary War. Following is an interpretation of a list of depreciation pay recipients included on pages 254 thru 270 in Volume IV of the Fifth Series of the Publications of the Pennsylvania Archives published 1906, many corrupted spellings remain. ......... Gottschall, Frederick ........" I was also going through a file of Tombstone Inscriptions of the Old Spies Cemetery in Berks Co., PA and ran acroos some Gottschalls and a Hoch. Kind of late (late 1700's and early 1800's, but may be of interest some day. TOMBSTONE INSCRIPTIONS OF SPIES CEMETERY -OLD CEMETERY ONLY- ALSACE TOWNSHIP, BERKS COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA Note: This file does NOT contain tombstone inscriptions for the entire Spies Church Cemetery, only the "Old Section" which was moved during the 1960's. GOTTSCHALL, Anna Maria Judith, w/o Leonard, b. 6 Feb 1754, d. 1 Jan 1829 GOTTSCHALL, Daniel, s/o Daniel and Hanna, b. 16 Mar 1844, d. 27 Aug 1848 GOTTSCHALL, Elizabeth, w/o George, b. 29 Jan 1781, d. 17 Dec 1842 GOTTSCHALL, George, b. 19 Feb 1779, d. 7 Aug 1849 GOTTSCHALL, Jacob, s/o Daniel and Hanah, b. 30 Oct 1855, d. 9 Apr 1856 GOTTSCHALL, Johannes, b. 4 Mar 1794, d. 13 Sep 1883 GOTTSCHALL, Leonhart, b. 23 Sep 1780, aged 55-3-15 GOTTSCHALL, Susanna, d/o Daniel and Maria GRENINGER, b. 4 Dec 1787, d. 14 Sep 1845 HOCH, Christina, w/o Jacob, b. 11 Jul 1788, d. 4 Sep 1826 Also the following from the St. Johns Cemetery in Berks Co., PA. ST. JOHNS CEMETERY, KUTZTOWN MAXATAWNY TOWNSHIP BERKS COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA HOCH, David, b. 30 Dec 1768, d. 16 Aug 1834, Rev. War Marker HOCH, Elizabeth nee SCHWEYER, w/o David, b. 26 Sep 1772, d. 8 Dec 1830 Dave Gudgel From: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: Descendant of Andrew Sr. Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:38:10 -0600 I made contact today with Linda concerning the Gudgel family and she = suggested I introduce myself. I am a descendant of Andrew Sr. through = William, Henry Thomas, Thomas Jefferson and Dollie Mae Gudgel (my = grandmother). Thomas Jefferson and Mary Myers (his 2nd wife) were = Dollies parents. My mother Frances Inez Tidwell Webb was one of 6 = children to the union of Franklin Jorden Tidwell and Dollie Mae Gudgel. = My mother corresponded in 1975 and 1976 with Doyal Gudgel about the = history of the Gudgel family. Mom passed away this last August and I = inherited all her records and pictures. Doyal sent her a picture of the = Gudgel Cabin many years ago and I jumped with joy when I saw it again. = Doyal also kept mom up to date with findings from the family reunions. = I am particularly interested in corresponding with descendants through = William. I have a nice tree built but would like to verify the = authenticity and accuracy of my "finds". Mom has one sister left in = Missouri and she just turned 90. I have made contact with the daughter = she lives with and I know she will be thrilled to know I have made = contact with the family she and my Mom often spoke of. Although I am = not a Gudgel by surname, I am fascinated with the history of the family = and would love to learn more. Bill Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:35:02 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: NEW GUDGEL COUSIN FOUND! A big WELCOME goes out to Bill Webb, who just introduced himself to the list. I am sure all the descendants of William GUDGEL will want to get to know him better and share some of their research. Bill, I forgot to mention that I believe we have about 30 subscribers to this list now and that the list is made possible through the efforts of Doyle GUDGEL's son, Bob. (Another "pat" on the back to Bob!). As always, we are pleased to find those GUDGEL cousins! Linda Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:52:41 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: "\"William \\\"Bill\\\" Webb\"" , gudgel Subject: Re: Tidwell Picture I'm taking the liberty of posting your letter to the list as there is information the list would be interested in. There was nothing new in my letter to you is the reason I didn't put it to the list also. > William \"Bill\" Webb wrote: > > I have an oil of him alone done from an old original. Tidwell) Oil? I have a painting of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel from the original tintype. But it isn't oil. I was wondering if they could have been done about the same time? I have some unidentified tintypes from the Thomas Jefferson Gudgel bible and am looking for someone who has others of the same time who might be able to identity them. Did your mother leave any other pictures of contemporaries of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel? > While going through > mom's possessions after her funeral I found 2 more of him - one of him and > Doll and another unidentified lady (all were young) and another of him and 2 > unidentified women. Color copiers at professional copy places like Kinko or better yet Office Max make excellent copies. If they are small enough several can be placed on one page. I am very anxious of getting copies ot those pictures not of Tidwell. I'm trying to match them up with the unidentified pictures I mentioned above of the tintypes. Kinko is 1.50 a copy. Office Max at the same time was 89 cents. > The one you mention sounds interesting. Frank and Doll > had a son Charles b. 25 Sept 1906 d. 25 Sept 1908. Could this be a picture of > Charles before he died?, if they are holding a baby?? Would love to have a > copy anyway and would reimburse any expenses encurred doing it. I am including a jpg of the picture. If it is the one you want I'll copy it at office max and mail it to you. > While on the > subject of pictures - in one of your letters to mom years ago, you were asking > about a picture she had of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel when he was about 17 > years. Did Mom ever get you a copy of that or did you ever acquire any > pictures of T.J.? That pic is now in my possession and would be glad to get > you a nice one made of it if interested. He was quite handsome! This should > have been about the time he enlisted - right? I love pictures of the > ancestors. Have 2 boys I'd love to pass things like that down to. If any of > the other Gudgel's are interested in the picture of T.J. let me know. > Bill I don't think I have that one. I should have a picture of him when he was married. But he looks older than 17. Besides this is a painting. His wedding picture was lost. Sarah Jones remained in the bible and I do have that. Don't worry about the cost of an occasional picture. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to a hill of beans. Anything that might be of interest to the others on the list please post it to the gudgel-list Thanks Doyal Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:09:40 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Did this get posted? I didn't see this comeback and wonder if it ever got sent out? I am sending it again to be sure it was sent to gudgel-list ============================ Subject: Re: Tidwell Picture Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:52:31 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: William \"Bill\" Webb , gudgel References: 1 I'm taking the liberty of posting your letter to the list as there is information the list would be interested in. There was nothing new in my letter to you is the reason I didn't put it to the list also. > William \"Bill\" Webb wrote: > > I have an oil of him alone done from an old original. Tidwell) Oil? I have a painting of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel from the original tintype. But it isn't oil. I was wondering if they could have been done about the same time? I have some unidentified tintypes from the Thomas Jefferson Gudgel bible and am looking for someone who has others of the same time who might be able to identity them. Did your mother leave any other pictures of contemporaries of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel? > While going through > mom's possessions after her funeral I found 2 more of him - one of him and > Doll and another unidentified lady (all were young) and another of him and 2 > unidentified women. Color copiers at professional copy places like Kinko or better yet Office Max make excellent copies. If they are small enough several can be placed on one page. I am very anxious of getting copies ot those pictures not of Tidwell. I'm trying to match them up with the unidentified pictures I mentioned above of the tintypes. Kinko is 1.50 a copy. Office Max at the same time was 89 cents. > The one you mention sounds interesting. Frank and Doll > had a son Charles b. 25 Sept 1906 d. 25 Sept 1908. Could this be a picture of > Charles before he died?, if they are holding a baby?? Would love to have a > copy anyway and would reimburse any expenses encurred doing it. I am including a jpg of the picture. If it is the one you want I'll copy it at office max and mail it to you. > While on the > subject of pictures - in one of your letters to mom years ago, you were asking > about a picture she had of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel when he was about 17 > years. Did Mom ever get you a copy of that or did you ever acquire any > pictures of T.J.? That pic is now in my possession and would be glad to get > you a nice one made of it if interested. He was quite handsome! This should > have been about the time he enlisted - right? I love pictures of the > ancestors. Have 2 boys I'd love to pass things like that down to. If any of > the other Gudgel's are interested in the picture of T.J. let me know. > Bill I don't think I have that one. I should have a picture of him when he was married. But he looks older than 17. Besides this is a painting. His wedding picture was lost. Sarah Jones remained in the bible and I do have that. Don't worry about the cost of an occasional picture. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to a hill of beans. Anything that might be of interest to the others on the list please post it to the gudgel-list Thanks Doyal -- Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: [Fwd: Re: Cutshall] Thought this was rather interesting and maybe someone can use it. She does speak of CUTSHAW being a variation of GUTSHALL and GODSHALK. Who knows? This came acros the GODSHALL(K) mail list. Linda > ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ > 09.alaska.net> >From: Michele Wiley >To: "'godshalk@suntan.eng.usf.edu'" >Subject: Re: Cutshall >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:30:03 -0900 > >Mike: > >Thanks so much for your response to my ROOTS-L posting!! After reviewing your descendant chart, I don't see an immediate link, but I think there is a good possibility that further research might show a family relationship somewhere along the way. > >I have just recently (last week!) received notes taken from the Cutshall Family Bible that was once in my grandmother's possession. The notes clearly state that my great-great-grandparents were Samuel (b. 3-6-1804) and Rachel (Gordon) (b. 1-15-1819) Cutshall from Indiana. Because this information is so new, I haven't yet had time to verify birth dates or locations, but understand that Samuel was born in either Ohio or Pennsylvania and Rachel was born in Indiana. > >My newest piece of information (an archived ROOTS-L posting by Roger W. Cutshall) was again received last week and still unconfirmed. After reviewing Roger's posting, I believe that my Samuel is very possibly the son of George Cutshall who was reportedly born in 1779 in Pennsylvania. George was married twice; first to Elizabeth Albright and second to Mary Ann Bishop. Besides Samuel, George is said to have six children: William, Michael, Philip, Abraham, Christina and Elizabeth. > >Roger's posting also stated that George lived "in and near Harrison and Jefferson Counties in Ohio in the early 1800's . . . [and] in 1820 he is listed on the federal census records of Coshocton County, Ohio. In 1830 and 1840 he is listed on the census schedules for Tuscarawas County, Ohio." Starting in 1850, George was shown as a Scott County, Indiana resident. (The exact county where my Cutshall's were from.) > >Obviously I still have a great deal of research to do, but knowing that Cutshall (also spelled Gutshall) is a derivative of Godshalk, we might have a link. Thanks again for your response and I'll keep you posted on my progress - who knows, we might be distant cousins!! > >Sincerely, >Michele Wiley > From: "Lane Lance" Subject: looking for stories Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:13:35 -0500 Hi all, I am in the process of putting together a "story" book for each of my brothers and sister and parents for Christmas. Numerous breaks have been made in several of our family lines this year (Gudgel being one of them) and I am trying to make it more interesting and hopefully inspire some help in my siblings. Do any of you have interesting stories about "Old Andrew" or his son William and Lucy Thurman that I could add to my collection? Thanks, Debbie From: Gudgeld@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:51:29 EST Subject: Re: looking for stories Debbie, I can't find a copy of the story right now, but I'm sure someone else can lay their hands on it quickly. There is a story about old Andrew and the Indians in Indiana where instead of going with his family to a safe haven, he stays at the farm and confronts the Indians. I have it somewhere, so if someone doesn't come up with it soon, I will look it up and send it along. Unfortunately, that is the only one I can think of right now. Dave Gudgel Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:07:28 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: Gudgeld@aol.com Subject: Re: looking for stories He was supposed to have sat in a chair while the indians confronted him. He refused to go to Ft. Branch for protection. Then again he might have had a stroke and couldn't have gone or wouldn't go. I think he probably had a stroke. But then your guess is as good as mine. I went to Ft. Branch and got a little magazine telling the story of Ft. Branch and the incident with the indians. Not the one with the Gudgels however. Gudgeld@aol.com wrote: > > Debbie, I can't find a copy of the story right now, but I'm sure someone else > can lay their hands on it quickly. There is a story about old Andrew and the > Indians in Indiana where instead of going with his family to a safe haven, he > stays at the farm and confronts the Indians. I have it somewhere, so if > someone doesn't come up with it soon, I will look it up and send it along. > Unfortunately, that is the only one I can think of right now. > > Dave Gudgel -- Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:12:47 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Cutshall] It's like I said. There are 30,000,000 ways to misspell Gudgel. Anything is possible. Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > Thought this was rather interesting and maybe someone can use it. She does > speak of CUTSHAW being a variation of GUTSHALL and GODSHALK. > Who knows? > > This came acros the GODSHALL(K) mail list. > Linda > > >From: Michele Wiley > >To: "'godshalk@suntan.eng.usf.edu'" > >Subject: Re: Cutshall > >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:30:03 -0900 > > > >Mike: > > > >Thanks so much for your response to my ROOTS-L posting!! After reviewing > your descendant chart, I don't see an immediate link, but I think there is a > good possibility that further research might show a family relationship > somewhere along the way. > > > >I have just recently (last week!) received notes taken from the Cutshall > Family Bible that was once in my grandmother's possession. The notes > clearly state that my great-great-grandparents were Samuel (b. 3-6-1804) and > Rachel (Gordon) (b. 1-15-1819) Cutshall from Indiana. Because this > information is so new, I haven't yet had time to verify birth dates or > locations, but understand that Samuel was born in either Ohio or > Pennsylvania and Rachel was born in Indiana. > > > >My newest piece of information (an archived ROOTS-L posting by Roger W. > Cutshall) was again received last week and still unconfirmed. After > reviewing Roger's posting, I believe that my Samuel is very possibly the son > of George Cutshall who was reportedly born in 1779 in Pennsylvania. George > was married twice; first to Elizabeth Albright and second to Mary Ann > Bishop. Besides Samuel, George is said to have six children: William, > Michael, Philip, Abraham, Christina and Elizabeth. > > > >Roger's posting also stated that George lived "in and near Harrison and > Jefferson Counties in Ohio in the early 1800's . . . [and] in 1820 he is > listed on the federal census records of Coshocton County, Ohio. In 1830 and > 1840 he is listed on the census schedules for Tuscarawas County, Ohio." > Starting in 1850, George was shown as a Scott County, Indiana resident. (The > exact county where my Cutshall's were from.) > > > >Obviously I still have a great deal of research to do, but knowing that > Cutshall (also spelled Gutshall) is a derivative of Godshalk, we might have > a link. Thanks again for your response and I'll keep you posted on my > progress - who knows, we might be distant cousins!! > > > >Sincerely, > >Michele Wiley > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:21:55 -0900 From: Dianne To: Lane Lance Subject: Re: Old Andrew and Indians The story about Old Andrew and the Indians has been misinterpreted. I belive that Old Andrew was pretty crippled up by the time he left for or short after arriving in Indiana. He would sit in a chair outside and help cut brush around him as far as he could reach. He had lost the use of his legs. Perhaps he had one of the orthopedic conditions that plague some of the Gudgels today. Perhaps he had a ruptured disc that paralyzed him (as it can do if left unattended and if severe enough). Anyway, it must have been difficult to get him in a wagon or on a horse to flee in emergencies. Maybe it is true he refused to go. Anyway, the story about the Indians coming and circling him and patting him on the head is a form of "taking coup." It is similar to some Indians taking a piece of a deceased enemy in belief that he would gain some of the power of the deceased. I am not sure I believe the story that has circulated that they patted Old Andrew's head as a sign of bravery, but more to show theirs and to gain some preceived power from him. There are many articles on "taking coup" from other cultures should anyone wish to research the details. I suspect each culture had slightly different meaning attached to the act. Dianne Gudgel-Holme From: "McArdle, Karin M., Ms., DAPE" To: Lane Lance Subject: RE: Old Andrew and Indians Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:46:40 -0500 Lane - I noticed your last name -- do you have any connection to Michael Lance? I communicated with him re: Embree C. Farmer -- brother of Melissa Farmer -- of Gibson County. Do you have any informatoin on the family of Farris Farmer & his children? Karin McA. -----Original Message----- From: Dianne [mailto:dianeh@corecom.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:22 PM To: Lane Lance Subject: Re: Old Andrew and Indians The story about Old Andrew and the Indians has been misinterpreted. I belive that Old Andrew was pretty crippled up by the time he left for or short after arriving in Indiana. He would sit in a chair outside and help cut brush around him as far as he could reach. He had lost the use of his legs. Perhaps he had one of the orthopedic conditions that plague some of the Gudgels today. Perhaps he had a ruptured disc that paralyzed him (as it can do if left unattended and if severe enough). Anyway, it must have been difficult to get him in a wagon or on a horse to flee in emergencies. Maybe it is true he refused to go. Anyway, the story about the Indians coming and circling him and patting him on the head is a form of "taking coup." It is similar to some Indians taking a piece of a deceased enemy in belief that he would gain some of the power of the deceased. I am not sure I believe the story that has circulated that they patted Old Andrew's head as a sign of bravery, but more to show theirs and to gain some preceived power from him. There are many articles on "taking coup" from other cultures should anyone wish to research the details. I suspect each culture had slightly different meaning attached to the act. Dianne Gudgel-Holme Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:58:21 -0800 (PST) From: "William \"Bill\" Webb" To: "Gudgel - list" Subject: The Beginning Well, I am back. I think I got the hang of the scanner now. I am = enclosing one document for now - Mom's picture of Thomas Jefferson = Gudgel. I have no idea how or from whom she aquired it. I remember = when she got it but at the time I did not have the presence of mind to = get the "details". How I wish I would have now. She never displayed it = . Kept it filed. She loved to show it though. I'm sure you have some = of him, here is another. I have 9 more documents scanned in and will be back later with some = more. Have more in the wings ready to scan in. Have lots of stuff to go = through and get out. There is still more back home that I have to get. = I have some requests of my own in future emails. Let me know what you = think. Bill Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: MIME encoding and HTML to the mail list There has been an increasing amount of posting HTML and MIME attatchments (pictures etc.) to the mail list. It's getting really hard to edit the archives. Every time they come through the mail list, I delete the pictures from the archive and wade through the HTML and have to try to edit the stuff out. It's not easy and takes a lot of time. There must be another way to get the picrures through. How many of you have problems seeing the pictures? Maybe we can have them attatched to an email and sent to me so I can put them up on the gudgel-list archive page instead. That would be easier for me to manage the archive. I see that outlook express is usually the culprit on the HTML tags and stuff. Please set outlook express so that it sends ASCII and NOT HTML. I would like to have mainly 'text' on the archive. Otherwise, I will have to 'zip' up the archive every few days so it won't be available in plain old text format on the gudgel web page. Thanks, Bob Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:41:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: attatchments I wanted to clarify a thing or two about picture attachments. Please send picture attatchments to me (bgudgel@eskimo.com) so I can post them to the web page. Email that is TO the mail list is automatically sent to the archive and that's how I read the mail list myself. I can't see the pictures this way. Make sure that the name "gudgel-list" does NOT appear in the subject line of the mail to me or it will be posted to the archive. I have really missed seeing the pictures that HAVE been posted. Thanks again, Bob Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:51:50 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: pictures! Great! Now, to see pictures that "would be" posted to the gudgel mail list, to to either http://www.eskimo.com/ftp/u/b/bgudgel/gudgelphotos/ OR you can go to the gudgel web page and then to the gudgel mail list page and there is a link there. The photos have to be renamed, but, so far there are 4 from Bill Webb. Some really good ones, too! I will rename these pictures, and I may end up editing pictures so they take up less space by removing surrounding space. If a would be picture poster can edit the pix themselves, so much the better but don't worry too much about it. Thanks Bill for the first few pix. I love the newspaper articles and the pictures of the old relatives and your family picture. So, if anyone has a picture to send, email it to me at bgudgel@eskimo.com as an attachment and I will put it in the ftp directory. This will work just fine. thanks, Bob Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:55:34 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL PHOTOS Bob- Great job on the GUDGEL photos! They are so clear. I received some info. on the Missouri GUDGEL's today via snail mail and will submit that as time permits. I'm lurking around but haven't had a lot of spare time lately. Will be back in the swing before long. Linda Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: Aunt Cecil dies I just recieved word that my Aunt Cecil Jennie (Garrett) Gudgel died thursday (I think) in chowchilla. She was 101 years old. Cecil was the widow of Loyd Louis Gudgel, a son of Thomas Wiley Gudgel. I had met her just 2 years ago during the weekend of the Gudgel reunion in Chowchilla California. Bob From: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: New Gudgel Pictures Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:08:55 -0600 Greetings, I just shipped a new batch of pics to Bob and told him I'd notify the = list in case you are interested. As I told Bob, had to take some time = off. Getting a little punch drunk from too much computer. I'm going to = throw how I see my portion of the tree on the List and see if I can = stimulate some cussin or discussin. Ha! I took the idea from Dianne's = (Thanks). I'm shipping another email with questions about Mary Myers, = since she is my G-Grandmother. Bill Brief Vital Statistics of the Dollie Mae Gudgel Tidwell Family = Line (As understood by William M. Webb, 11/22/98) 1. ANDREW GUDGEL(L) was born 1727 in Palatine Germany (1), and died = August 16, 1815 in Owensville, Gibson Co., IN. He married (1) Mrs. = Gudgel Katherine 1745 in Bucks Co., PA. This union produced 12 = children. He married (2) Barbara Unknown WFT Est. 1758-1799. This = union produced 2 children. He married (3) Elizabeth Payne October 04, = 1793 in Woodford Co., KY. She was b. ? d. 21 Dec 1823 (2). This union = produced 3 children. Children of ANDREW and ELIZABETH: 1. Hester Helen (Hetty) Gudgel McGary 2. Nancy Gudgel Teel 3. WILLIAM GUDGEL (b. 11 Feb. 1801 d. 22 Jan. 1877 (3) Owensville, = IN.) 2. WILLIAM GUDGEL married LUCINDA LUCY THURMAN Abt 1824 (2) in Gibson = Co., IN. No b. and d. dates at this time for Lucy. This union produced = 12 children. 1. Martha Jane Gudgel Pritchett 2. HENRY THOMAS GUDGEL b. unknown d. 17 Nov. 1861 Mound City, IL. = (4) 3. Andrew Gudgel=20 4. Jacob Gudgel 5. Nicholas Gudgel 6. Edward Gudgel 7. John Gudgel 8. Abraham Gudgel 9. Nan Gudgel Douglas 10. Sarah Gudgel Douglas 11. Caroline Gudgel Martin 12. Harriett Gudgel Yeagor 3. HENRY THOMAS GUDGEL married SARAH ANN JOHNSON 19 Feb. 1846 in Gibson = Co., IN (5). To this union there was 8 children. 1. THOMAS JEFFERSON GUDGEL (b. 20 Oct. 1847 d. 27 Aug. 1898 (6) 2. William Alexander Gudgel 3. Andrew Gudgel 4. Henry Gudgel 5. Ann Gudgel 6. Jacob Gudgel 7. Phillip Gudgel 8. Charles Gudgel - a new one I did not know about. Thanks again = Dianne! 4. THOMAS JEFFERSON GUDGEL married Sarah Jones 27 Sept. 1866 in = Springfield Missouri (7). =20 She was b. 1848 d. 02 Jan 1884 (8). This union produced 8 children. He = married Mary Myers Bet.1884-86 ? Marriage location unknown.. She was = born 20 Jan. 1863 ?? d. 18 Oct. 1891. ?? (Need to find documentation of = these dates.) This union produced 3 children. He married Martha Jane = Drisskill 29 Oct. 1893 near Cliff, Indian Territory, OK (9). Birth and = death dates unknown. This union produced 2 children. Children of Thomas Jefferson and Mary: 1. Dollie Mae Gudgel b. 16 Feb. 1887 in Madill, OK. d. 08 Apr 1979 = in Tulsa, OK (10) 2. Flora Gudgel b. Sept 1891 d. Jan 1892 (11) (Was Flora left with = Thomas after Mary=92s death??) 3. Infant Gudgel b. ? d. ? A son that died at birth. (Was this son = between Doll and Flora??) 5. DOLLIE MAE GUDGEL married Franklin Jorden (Jurden) Tidwell 07 Jun = 1905, Indian Territory, Central District, SS., OK (12). He was b. 27 = Jan. 1883 in Panola Co. TX . d. 25 Feb. 1920. (11) She also married Morgan Williams 1921 (11), Tom Hopper Abt 1923, T. P. = Harkins Abt. 1925 and M. L. Ockerman 03 Sep 1954 in Sapulpa, Creek = County, OK. (13) There were no children to any of the other 4 = marriages. Children of Dollie and Franklin 1. Charles Alexander Tidwell b. 25 Sep 1906 d. 25 Sep 1908 (14) 2. Iva Estelle Tidwell b. 4 Jul 1908 Still Living 3. Frances Inez Tidwell 07 Aug 1910 d. 05 Aug 1998 4. Lerrah Aetna Tidwell - in process of obtaining b. and d. dates 5. Mary Myrtle Tidwell - in process of obtaining b. and d. dates 6. Elbert Franklin Tidwell - in process of obtaining b. and d. = dates. 6. Frances Inez Tidwell married William Lee Webb 20 Oct. 1927 in = McAlester, OK. (15) He was b. 20 Apr 1907 d. 26 Sep 1988. This union = produced 3 children. Children of Frances and William: 1. Betty Jo Webb - still living 2. Janis Lee Webb - still living 3. William Martin Webb - still living Endnotes 1. Broderbund Software, Inc., World Family Tree Vol. 2, Ed. 1, (Release = date: November 29, 1995), =93CD-Rom,=94 Tree # 5933 2. Gudgel Family History. 3. Picture of tombstone on home place burial ground. 4. Casualty Sheet, Mound City Hospital 5. Gibson Co. Certificate of Marriage and Indiana State Library = Genealogy Division, Indiana Marriages through 1850. 6. The Denison Daily Herald, March 29, 1898, No.43, Obituary 7. Picture of wedding certificate. Courtesy of Doyal Gudgel. 8. Gudgel Family History. 9. Clerks Office, U.S. Court at Ardmore, Indian Terr., OK. 10. Attending Physician, Certificate of Death, State of Oklahoma, Dept = of Health 11. Written record of Frances Inez Tidwell Webb. 12. Marriage License No. 2548 June 7, 1905 Duly Recorded in Book 3 of = Marriage record, Page 56. 13. Certificate of Marriage recorded in Marriage Record Book 53 at page = 374, on this the 8th day of Sept, 1954 State of Oklahoma, Creek County. 14. Picture of tombstone in Bethel Cemetery, Oklahoma. 15. Marriage License and Certificate No 10759. Certificate recorded on = Page 614 of Marriage Record 18 State of Oklahoma, Pittsburg, County. From: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: Mary Myers Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:52:05 -0600 This lady has been an enigma in our family for many years and I feel I = may the perfect forum to gain a little inf. on her. If any one has any = inf. on her, please, I'd love to know! =20 Frances Inez Tidwell Webb talked vividly about her from 1975 to 1988. = And she was quite adamant about her recollections. All I plan to do is = repeat the stories she told. I tried to pick her story apart and she = never faltered over the 13 years. Mom said she was a "half-breed" of = Cherokee blood. She was one of 4 children to the union of Henry Myers = and and a Cherokee "squaw". Henry Myers had just lost a wife and he = went to the reservation in Oklahoma looking for a wife and took the = "squaw". To this union they produced 4 children - Alice Myers, Elam = Myers, Dave Myers and Mary Myers. Apparently Henry died and the "squaw" = took the 4 children and went back to the reservation. Thomas Jefferson = Gudgel had lost his first wife Sarah Jones Gudgel. He too was looking = for a wife and went to the reservation and took Mary. This union = produced 3 children - Dollie Mae Gudgel, (my Grandmother) Flora Gudgel = and an infant son that died at birth. =20 According to Frances, Mary Myers was buried in a cemetery named either = Coffey Bend or Preston Bend. She said that Thomas Jefferson Gudgel is = buried close to his 3 wives and we know that T.J. is buried in Coffey = Bend so Mary must be buried in Coffey Bend. She thought the cemetery = was on the Texas side of the lake (must be Lake Texhoma). She felt the = graves were lost as she did not think they had markers. But apparently = one or both of the other wives (if this is where they are buried) had = stones and if they could be found, one would be close to T.J. and Mary. = I am planning a trip to Indiana in March and plan to go through this = area and look for this cemetery. I have a cousin Tidwell (son to Mom's only brother) that has put = considerable effort into Mary Myers. I have tried repeatedly to reach = him at his home in OK but he is a Baptist minister and, I hear, travels = alot. Have yet to reach him. It is my understanding he has traveled to = the Muskogee, OK Indian records office (through visiting with another = cousin in OK) and he has found a Mary Myers in the records from about = this time frame, but the records are so sketchy he is afraid to stick = his neck out and say it is our Mary Myers. I have heard stories that maybe Mary Myers was not of Indian blood. I = have heard stories that she indeed was of Indian blood and that her = mother may have been in the Trail of Tears!? Who knows. We have no = concrete evidence to say, and can't seem to find any. That is why I am = hoping this forum will generate something to go on. There seems to be conflicts in the records as to when she was born. = Frances says Mary Myers was 16 when Thomas Jefferson Gudgel married her = and 18 when she died. But when I do the math on the birth and death = dates I have, this does not compute! I think I recall a letter from Doyal to Frances in which he said he had = a picture of Mary Myers and she had blonde hair, blue eyes and was of = fair complexion? This indicates no Indian (?) to me (so maybe she = wasn't Indian), if this is Mary? I don't know. I would love to see any = pictures thought to be Mary Myers. I have several brick walls in my research. One is in front of my = G-Grandfather Benjamin Franklin Webb. I swear this man had no parents = or they were nomadic! I still have not caught up with him. Another is = Mary Myers. And there are people on the Tidwell side with the same = problem. If any Gudgels have a hand to lend, the Tidwells and I would = be eternally grateful. Have a Good Night and a Good Tomorrow! Thanks, Bill From: EGudgel@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:00:30 EST To: bgudgel@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Aunt Cecil dies My mother Myrtle (Burnett) Gudgel died one month before her 105th birthday. Either the Gudgel men marry women with good genes or we take good care of them...hopefully both. Ed Gudgel, Fort Myers FL. Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:09:17 -0900 From: Dianne To: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: Re: discussion Thanks Bill, for providing some new information on an area that I had been wondering about for year. And thank you very much for showing your documentation in footnotes. That is very important. I hope we can find more out about the Gudgel's marrying into the native people. Any documents that you have or that others of us can lead you to will be most welcome. Please tell us the reservation and any other names the people may have used and I think we can help dig up some data. Also, I noticed one thing right off in your listing of Old Andrew's wives. If you add up the years of what you list is Andrew's first marriage (to Katherine) it amounts to not more than 13 years. Yet you say there were 12 children from this union. That doesn't add up very well because most children were spaced 2-2.5 years a part in those days. And if you will plug in the dates of birth for Andrew's children that we know about, many seem to have been were born in the 1770s-80s. This would have been during the time you have Andrew married to Barbara, yet you indicate there were only 2 children between them. So this leaves a question in my mind as to Katherine and her children. I don't think we have any problem with Andrew's last wife, Eliz, but as for the others, I only know of finding the name Barbara once or twice in Fayette Co, PA records. Sometimes I think the name is associated with Andrew Jr--at times it seems to vary--so there is still a little question mark in my mind. But as for Katherine, there is a very big question mark in my mind. We certainly need to be searching for more documentation for this era and I just hope one of you retires before I do and can go searching. Thanks again Bill, Dianne From: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: Request for Pictures Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:17:25 -0600 As you have probably noticed, I'm a hound for pictures. The family = always has been. I guess thats why I'm fortunate to have so much to = share. I would like to make a request. Are their pictures floating = around of any of the other children of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel that I = could get a scan of? Grandma Doll, we know, kept tabs with Mary Agnes = "Aunt Molly" - half-sister and we "think" she kept tabs with Luther - = half-brother. I have pictures of them. I show 8 children from T.J. and Sarah Jones: William Henry b. 1867 d. 1870 Thomas Wiley b. 20 Feb 1869 d. 07 Jun 1934 Infant b. 21 Feb. 1871 d. 22 Feb 1871 Ann Lucenda Bell b. 01 Feb. 1874 d. 18 Sep 1878 Mary Agnes b. 27 Oct 1877 d. May 1961 Holland Porter b. 06 Mar 1880 d. ? Robert Emmet b. 23 Dec 1881 d Sep 1902 Edward b. ? d 08 Jan 1884 Then the 3 of T. J. and Mary Myers I posted I show 2 children of T.J. Gudgel and Martha Drisskill Luther b. 22 Jul 1894 d. ? Marvin E. b. 22 Jan 1897 d. Nov 1899 I am sure pictures don't exist for a number of them since so many died = young. But of those that made it to age, I would be appreciative of a = picture of them if one exists. I'd like to put a photo album together = for the family of Dolls half-siblings. Many Thanks, Bill Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:30:54 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL's in Missouri I have been trying to link the Missouri GUDGEL(L)'s to my lines from Kentucky that went West and beleive I am finally making some progress. I have lots of data that I am piecing together ( and I will submit that at a later time), however, the most interesting thing I have found recently is the documentation of our African American GUDGEL(L)'s. *********************************************************************** A Bill of Sale found in the Grand River Historical Society in Chillicothe, Livingston Co., MO reads: Slave owner name: Spencer H. GREGORY from John T. GUDGEL Name of Slave: Henry Parents of Slave: (no data) Birthplace of Slave: KY Age of Slave: 24 years Sex of Slave: Male Other Physical Description: sound in mind and body. Other information: Henry GUDGEL became a black smith on a piece of land on part of that farm by 1870 U.S. Census of Livingston Co., MO in Monroe Township. Source Document: Bill of Sale, Document in Grand River Historical Society, Livingsotn Co., MO. State: Missouri County: Livingston Co. Year of Source Document: 1853 *********************************************************************** I feel sure this means that John T. GUDGEL, son-in-law of Spencer H. Gregory, must have brought this slave, Henry, with him from KY to MO. I believe John went to IL before going to MO. At some point he must have given or sold Henry to his father-in-law, Spencer H. GREGORY. Data from the Colored Cemetery Records, Northern Livingston Co., MO in Utica: (All GUDGELL's) Henry C., 1826-1895 Chloe, his wife,, 1823-1912. Edmund, 1862-1941, Georgia, his wife, 1868-1954 Kenneth M., May 1m 1904-May 10, 1951 Bertie E. d. Feb. 24, 1957, age 79 years. Tina M.- 1891-1921 I have found data from the early years of Anderson Co., KY that mentions African American GUDGEL)L)'s but haven't been able to trace who they belonged to. At least this is a starting point, however, I am not even positive who John's father was since I know of 2 possible John's- one from Bath Co., KY and one from Anderson Co., KY.. Some data on John T. GUDGEL: born Nov. 21, 1819 KY, d. Jan. 8, 1865 Mooresville, Livingston Co., MO. Marr. Jan. 3, 1837 Carroll Co., MO to Lovey M. GREGORY, d/o Spencer and Lovey GREGORY. John and Lovey both buried Gregory Cemetery, Livingston Co., MO. John was elected Missouri State Representative Nov. 4, 1862. 6 Known Children: Robert E. GUDGEL-b. July 1837 in Ray Co., MO. Marr. Atilla ______. Known children: Emma, b. 1865; John Mason , b. 1867; and Jessie B., b. 1880. (All ch. born Monroe Twp.) Spencer "Spence" GUDGEL-b. abt. 1839 In Mooresville, Livingston Co., MO. Military: Corporal of Capt. Joseph S. Edsall's Co. F, 11th Reg. CAV MO Volunteers. Enrolled 27 Mar. 1863, discharged 27 July 1865 at New Orleans, LA. Age at discharge: 26 years, 5'9", fair complexion, gray eyes, dark hair, farmer. Laura M.GUDGEL-b. abt. 1840 in Mooresville, Livingston Co., MO. Mildred L. GUDGEL- b. Jan. 15, 1843 in Mooresville., d. February 7, 1876 Buried Gregory Cemtery. Marr. (1) Thomas JENNINGS Oct. 15, 1864 (2) James Jackson LAWSON August 31, 1865. Emma F. GUDGEL- b. Dec. 9, 1844 Mooresville, d. Jan. 27, 1896. Married James Thomas JENNINGS. No children. Julien M. GUDGEL (male)-b. Dec. 26, 1846 Mooresville, d. March 27, 1906. Marr. Franky JENNINGS. I'll stop here. Just think this is so interesting. More later. BTW, I am sure enjoying all the data that Bill Webb is giving us. Thanks, Bill. Linda Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:10:02 -0900 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: slave stories Linda, I am sure I mentioned the one page article that my dad found long ago of a story from a former slave, named Ann Gudgel from Anderson Co, KY. But in case you don't have it, it is from: "The American Slave: A Composite Autobiography" vol 16, KS, KY, MD, Oh, VI, & Tenn narratives, Contributions in Afro-American & African Studies No. 11, edited by GP Rawick, Greenwood Publishing, 1972. Given to my dad by Lowell Harrison, Western Ky Univ, Hist Dept. (who may have done the interviews). The date of the interview is unknown, but I assume Ann must have married a Gudgel who may have also been a slave. In the one page, Ann says she was a little girl when the slaves were freed but she doesn't know how old she is. She grew up in the possession of a Mr Ball and continued to live there after the civil war until she was grown. She states that "none of us were ever sold becaue we belonged to the Balls for always back as far as could think." Ann played with the what appears to be Mr Ball's daughter who was about the same age. The only time Ann can recall being beaten (by Mrs Ball) was when she prompted Missy Nancy Ball get some honey from some hives. She told her that the bees were asleep. She says it took a day to get all the stingers out of their hands. Another brief paragraph was about the time the slaves were vaccinated (probably for smallpox). Ann's didn't take but she rubbed ashes and "juice" from the wood on her scratch and neither did her arm hurt. The other slaves, she says, were real sick and had "the awfullest arms." The name of Mildred Roberts is listed after the Anderson Co subtitle on the raw notes of the interview and this may mean she did the actual interview with Mr Harrison being the overal compiler of the interviews. It would be interesting to go back and find the Ball family in the census and see if we can find Ann and follow her through her marriage to Mr Gudgel (if she indeed was married). Dianne Gudgel-Holmes Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: [SLAVEINFO-L] KY Land, Taxes and Slaves Hi Gang! Found this on another list that might be helpful at some point in researching early days of KY. TTYL, Linda >> >TIP #202 - NON-RESIDENT LANDS, PATROLLERS AND TAXES. > >There were specific Kentucky laws governing land which was owned by people >who were not residents of the state. The first legislation was enacted >December 21, 1779 which included the following stipulations: > >1 - The State Auditor was to keep a book for the purpose of receiving and >entering lands of non-residents. The following had to be adhered to. > >a. Each tract was to be placed in its proper class >b. To be recorded in the county where it was situated >c. Non-residents had to follow the Kentucky regulations. >d. All taxes, when due, with any interest, to be paid to the State Treasurer >e. Any taxes not paid within the prescribed time limit were allowed, by the >State Auditor >To be put up for sale on the 3rd Monday of November each year, or they >could be sold >By the Sheriff of the appropriate county. >f. Transfers in ownership were to be recorded by the Auditor. > >2 - The County Sheriff, after receiving taxes and interest from residents >or non-residents, accounted for each sum, had to be bonded, was liable for >any damages and costs of any court cases involving the land. > >3 - Any person (infants and those non compos mentis excepted) who claimed >lands in the State of Kentucky, who failed to list that land for taxation, >forfeited his claim on the land. There were a few legal exceptions to this. > If, within two years, the individual paid his taxes and the land was still >available, he could pay the back taxes and render an account to the Auditor. > >On December 223rd, 1802 a law was passed which stated that when a person >purchased land of non-residents which had been sold for taxes, he had to >take from the register of the land office, a certificate of this purchase, >noting that the taxes and interests had been paid. The certificate was >presented to the State Treasurer and the monies paid. If the purchaser >failed to do this, or refused to do so, he forfeited the land and had to >pay fifty per cent on the amount of the tax and any costs. > >If the land of a non-resident had been classified incorrectly, or listed >twice accidentally, satisfactory proof had to be made to the State Auditor >of same. If proven by the Auditor to be incorrect, the auditor was allowed >to pay the owner back for any overpaid taxes. (Land was classified as >first, second, or third class land with first class being the best. Each >had it's own tax valuation). > >PATROLLERS. The use of patrollers began with an act passed by the Kentucky >State Legislature on the 29th of November 1799. The county courts were >ordered to lay off their counties into as many districts as they thought >necessary. In each district, a company of patrollers was to be appointed >who were to serve for a one-year term. The Caption of the Patrollers was a >"discreet person", he could enlist as many patrollers in his district as he >felt he needed, not to exceed four. They took an oath and were sworn in. > >The patrollers were to serve as many hours each month as the court of that >county directed; not less than 12 hours a month. Their duties included: > >1 - Visit Negro quarters and other suspected places of unlawful assemblies >of slaves. If they found a slave out wandering around, going from one >plantation to another without the permission of his owner, he could be >taken before a local Magistrate and receive no more than 39 lashes. > >2 - Other duties as needed. > >The captain was paid 4 shillings for every 12 hours on patrol; assistant >patrollers received 3 shillings for every 12 hours - to be taken out of the >county levy. > >TAXES: It was the duty of the Sheriff to collect taxes each year. In the >year 1816, the rate was 6 and ¼ cents for every hundred dollars valuation. >Non-resident lands were taxed at the same rate. For his services, the >Sheriff was paid 7 ½ % of the revenue collected. > >Indirect taxes were also charged which included those on a covering horse >(stallion), taverns (ten dollars), Jackasses, Pedlars ($20) and Billiard >tables ($500.00.). > >© Copyright 24 November 1998, Sandra K. Gorin, All Rights Reserved, >sgorin@glasgow-ky.com > > >Sandi Gorin - A Kentucky Colonel >205 Clements Ave., Glasgow, KY 42141 (502) 651-9114 >PUBLISHING: http://www.members.tripod.com/~GorinS/index.html >BARREN CO OBITS, WILLS, DEEDS & BIBLE RECORDS: >http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/BarrenObits >KYRESEARCHING TIPS: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Tips >KYBIOGRAPHIES: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Bios > > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:13:17 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Happy Thanksgiving! Just wanted to pass this on to my "family". May each of you have a wonderful Thanksgiving in the truest sense of the word. Linda from Kentucky >"YOUR SURNAME" > >You got it from your dear father, >It was the best he had to give. >So it's yours to use and cherish >for ere as long as you may live. > >If you lose the watch he gave you, >the watch can always be replaced. >But a black mark on your surname, >child, can not ever be erased. > >It was clean the day you took it, >and it's a worthy name to bear. >When he got it from his father, >there was only great honor there. > >So make sure you guard it wisely, >and never ever do things wild. >You'll be glad that name is spotless >when you give it to your child. > >by: Robert Goode Rockwell > 20 August 1988 > > Thought for the day: >The best form of spiritual excercise is to touch the floor regularly with >your knees. > > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:18:48 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: HUMOR FOR THE HOLIDAY To all my GUDGEL FAMILY. Couldn't resist this one. I promise it's the last for this holiday Happy Thanksgiving, again. May we all enjoy the eats, treats and even the in-laws! Linda >The turkey shot out of the oven >and rocketed into the air, >it knocked every plate off the table >and partly demolished a chair. >It ricocheted into a corner >and burst with a deafening boom, >then splattered all over the kitchen, >completely obscuring the room. >It stuck to the walls and the windows, >it totally coated the floor, >there was turkey attached to the ceiling, >where there'd never been turkey before. >It blanketed every appliance, >It smeared every saucer and bowl, >there wasn't a way I could stop it, >that turkey was out of control. >I scraped and I scrubbed with displeasure, >and thought with chagrin as I mopped, >that I'd never again stuff a turkey >with popcorn that hadn't been popped. > >Author............. Jack Prelutsky > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:05:58 -0800 (PST) From: Ralph Johnson To: "William \"Bill\" Webb" Subject: Re: Mary Myers Regarding Mary Myers being indian. I have a picture of an Indian woman and baby that was in Thomas Jefferson Budgel bible. It is not identified. One of several tintypes not identified. The picture of the Indian and baby is a cart de graph, not a tintyipe. A tintpe size picture on paper pasted on to a thin piece of cardboard. I wonder if this could have been Mayr Meyers. Right now I am limited to text email as my pentium computer has crashed and I will probably have to get it formatted and win95 or 98 installed before I can put up more pictures. Some one had written on the back of the picture that it was a friend of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel. But my Grandmother Emma Sarah Gudgel didn't like Indians so I do not neccessarly believe the note about the picture was of a friend. I got the bible from Opal who got it from the family. Probably his mother Emma Sarah. Grandma would not say she was of indian ancestry. Unfortunabely the Bible is in sad condition. Has gone through fire and flood for one hundred and thirty years. Needs major repairing. Doyal Gudgel Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:11:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ralph Johnson To: EGudgel@aol.com Subject: Re: Aunt Cecil dies On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 EGudgel@aol.com wrote: > My mother Myrtle (Burnett) Gudgel died one month before her 105th birthday. > Either the Gudgel men marry women with good genes or we take good care of > them...hopefully both. Ed Gudgel, Fort Myers FL. > We take care of our women Some years ago my son Robin met a Gudgel in Florida (Ed I think) who looked exactly like my brother Loyal. Were you a teacher or work at a college in Florida? My son keeps asking to locate this guy. Would be nice to be able to tell him I've located him. Doyal Gudgel Seattle. We don't tan. We rust. Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:36:11 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: MARION JOYCE GUDGEL-OBIT. NOV., 27, 1998 >From the November 29, 1998 Lexington Herald-Leader, Lexington, KY: Marian JOYCE GUDGEL, 94, of Lexington Country Place, died Friday, November 27, 1998. She was born May 23, 1904 in Buffalo, New York, the daughter of the late Henry D. and Katherine LOUGLIN JOYCE. She is survived by one son, Paul D. (Katherine) GUDGEL of Lexington; one daughter, Carol G. (Richard C.) WAGNER of Buffalo, NY; four grandchildren, Laura WAGNER, Ellen Marie (Joseph) COVELLO, Michael B. FOLEY and John E. (Mindy) FOLEY; six great grandchildren, Sara SUMMERVILLE, Grace Jean FOLEY, Leela Katherine FOLEY, John Paul FOLEY, Parker Alan FOLEY, and Charlotte Ann FOLEY. She was preceded in death by her husband, John William GUDGEL, in 1965 and one son, John L. GUDGEL, 1991. Visitation will be private. The Mass of Christian burial will be held on Monday, November 30, 1998 at 10:00 a.m. at St. Paul Catholic Church. Burial will be in the Frankfort Cemetery. Whitehall Funeral Chapel in charge of arrangements. Memorial contributions may be directed to the Sanders-Brown Center on Aging. ************************************************************************ I had the honor of meeting this gracious lady a year or so ago. I met with her son, Paul D. GUDGEL, at his home in Lexington and he took me to meet his mother at her home. We talked and talked about the GUDGEL's and she brought out several old items to show me. She had a picture of the family of her late husband, John William GUDGEL, taken at their home in Waddy, Shelby Co., KY when they were growing up. The original picture had been copied and restored and she gave me the old picture. It needs to be restored but I was most grateful for the one she gave me. She also showed me a pair of eyeglasses that had belonged to Jacob GUDGEL, John William's grandfather. They were tiny and were still in the original case. Inside the glasses case was also a piece of paper that listed the generations and I am not sure who wrote it but it was exactly as I had researched our direct line: Jacob GUDGEL, Sr. Elijah GUDGEL Jacob GUDGEL Benjamin Thomas GUDGEL John William GUDGEL I had intended to go back and see her again with the intentions of taking a picture of the glasses and the document. I suppose the glasses will go to her son, Paul D. GUDGEL. Actually I first saw the glasses in 1973 when I visited John William's brother, Tillo Martin, in Stanford, Lancaster Co., KY. He has since died and I am sure he gave the glasses to Marion GUDGEL, as he had no children. The list of grandchildren in Marion GUDGEL's obituary list the Foley children. Actually these are children of Paul's wife, Katherine, by her first marriage. Paul doesn't have any children of his own but has raised them as his own. As a matter of fact, he and Katherine are raising granddaughter, Sara . Sara's parents were killed in an auto accident I believe. I met Sara and Katherine also when I visited with them earlier. Now I will tell you about Paul D. GUDGEL. Locally her is known as the Honorable Paul D. GUDGEL, Court of Appeals Judge, representing the 5th Appellate District of Kentucky. He received his undergraduate degree from the University of Kentucky in 1961. He received his law degree from the University of Kentucky School of Law in 1964 and a master of laws degree from the University of Virginia School of Law in 1990. Judge GUDGEL has been a practicing attorney and has served as a Municipal Court and Quarterly Court Trial Commissioner. In 1979 he was appointed to the Court of Appeals. He served as the Court's Chief Judge Pro Tem from 1984 to 1990. Judge GUDGEL is truly a fine person. We shared old pictures and even found we had some of the same pictures of certain family members. I consider him a friend as well as my cousin. A brief description of his family lineage: Paul D. GUDGEL (a/k/a Judge GUDGEL) b. July 22, 1938, son of John William GUDGEL and Marian JOYCE. Marr. Katherine SMITH FOLEY June 12, 1971. Currently resides in Lexington, Fayette Co., KY. Judge GUDGEL's line of descent from our old Andrew is: Andrew, Sr., Jacob, Sr., Elijah, Jacob, Benjamin Thomas, John William, Paul D. GUDGEL. ************************************************************************ Some data on his grandfather, Benjamin Thomas GUDGEL: Benjamin Thomas GUDGEL b. July 15, 1860 Anderson Co., KY, d. Sept. 29, 1923, bur. Frankfort Cemetery, Franklin Co., KY. Son of Jacob Madison GUDGEL and Frances Matilda GRIFFEY. (Note: these are also my g-great grandparents). Benjamin Thomas married (1) Susan Hattie BICKERS Mar. 17, 1886 Anderson Co., KY. Hattie b. June 31, 1863 Anderson Co., KY, d. June 5, 1894 Anderson Co., KY, bur. Fox Creek Cemetery, Anderson Co., KY. Daughter of John W. BICKERS and Armenta C. GUDGEL. 2 children: Herbert A. GUDGEL-b. Feb. 15, 1887 Anderson Co., KY, d. Mar. 12, 1912 Anderson Co., KY, bur. Fox Creek Cemetery, Anderson Co., KY Died of Tuberculosis, and illness of several weeks. Mayme Lee GUDGEL-b. Nov. 7, 1889,Anderson Co., KY, d. Nov. 9, 1932 Anderson Co., KY. Bur. Fox Creek Cem., Anderson Co., KY. Marr. David Martin YOUNG. Benjamin Thomas GUDGEL marr. (2) Ida Olga HALMHUBER in 1896 Franklin Co., KY. Ida b. 1872, d. 1952. Buried in Frankfort Cem., Franklin Co., KY. 4 children: Mary Frances GUDGEL-(1897-1985) Never married. School Teacher. Bur. Frankfort Cem., Franklin Co., KY Margaret Louise GUDGEL-(1899-1979) Died in VA. Marr. Oscar REYNOLDS. 3 children. Bur. Lexington Cem., Fayette Co., KY John William GUDGEL-(1902-1965) Marr. Marian JOYCE 1931. Bur. Frankfort Cem., Franklin Co., KY. (This is PAUL D. GUDGEL's father). Emma Jessie GUDGEL-(1904-1972). Marr. Russell J. PLUE in 1930. Bur. Frankfort Cem., Franklin Co., KY. ************************************************************************ I'll stop here before I lose you or bore you to death. This really is an interesting family. Another cousin of this family, Eddie MARTIN of Lake Charles, LA, is the one who copied several of the old family Bibles and Photo Alumns and sent them to me some years ago. The records were wonderful and I will be forever be indebted to him for sharing these with me. That's all for now. So from all of this about the "Judge", if you ever need a friend in Kentucky........LOL, call your cousin! He's a great guy. Linda Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:37:24 -0900 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: MARION JOYCE GUDGEL-OBIT. NOV., 27, 1998 Gee thanks a lot Linda. It is nice to know a fairly complete and yet interesting summary on this side of the family, and to know we have a "friend" in high places when we go through KY--should we ever need him. I would like to know more about the items the family has such as photos (will we be able to see them reproduced on the web site?) and the bible photocopies. How do you keep track of all these things??? Dianne Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:22:50 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL List: NOW THAT THANKSGIVING'S OVER Hi Everyone! Well, I've cleaned out the frige' last night so I guess Thanksgiving is officially over. We have eaten all the turkey sandwiches we want for a while too! Am wondering if anyone wants to share some of their Thanksgiving memories with the List? Don't be shy and think we don't want to know about these things because we do. That's what we are all about. While growing up in the community of Alton in Anderson Co., KY we always went to my grandmother's for Thanksgiving. She also lived just down the road in this samll community, like a typical "Mayberry, RFD" I suppose. I loved my grandmother so. Her name was Verna Elwood HUTCHISON GUDGEL COLE (1900-1970). She was the daughter of James Rabe HUTCHISON and Margaret BUNTON of Anderson Co., KY. Her first husband was Samuel Madison GUDGEL, who was born June 10, 1899, the son of Allie Lee GUDGEL (1875-1899) and Clara Hutson HAWKINS (1880-1965). He died before we kids were born but we always referred to him as "Grandaddy GUDGEL". Samuel died Sept. 20, 1940 as a young man leaving Verna with 3 children: James Garland GUDGEL 1922-1953 Norman Earl GUDGEL 1925-1990 (my Dad) Marjorie Eloise GUDGEL 1928-1965 Grandaddy GUDGEL was buried in the Fox Creek Cemetery, Anderson Co., KY where his parents are also buried. Grandmother married a second time to Willie Waldon COLE in 1951 and we called him "Grandaddy Bill". He was a sweet guy. We used to visit them a lot at the old home place in Alton. I loved to spend the night with grandmother. Anyway my grandmother, Verna, used to have certain things she baked or made during Thanksgiving. Always her wonderful grape salad that she served in a square ironstone bowl. I also make this salad from her recipe each Thanksgiving and I serve it in a bowl just like hers that I found at an auction. I think it even makes it taste better. She would always have scalloped oysters, green beans, turkey, dressing, giblet gravy, candied yams, homemade yeast rolls and all the regular items served on this special day. My Dad would always say the blessing before the meal. She would get out her best dishes and always a white tablecloth. I was so proud to be allowed to eat at the BIG table after a few years. When we were little she would put the little ones at a little table in the kitchen. But I can't end this memory without mentioning her white coconut cake. Grandmother's specialty and boy was it good. Light and not too sweet. She always served it with homemade custard too. I spent lots of time with my grandmother as a child. She always made me feel special. And I thought she was pretty special too. I should take the time to really think about her more often. I sure miss her. And I think I might go fix me a snack after all this talk about food! Good night, Linda Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:42:02 -0900 From: Dianne To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: GUDGEL List: THANKSGIVING Memories My mother's parents ususally had us over for Thanksgiving and there was always a large table or relatives in attendance. My grandmother died with all her teeth, but grandpa had false teeth for as long as I can remember. After thanksgiving dinner he would joke with me and pullout his teeth and ask if I would go and wash them off. Of course I didn't do it. Sometimes I would crawl underneath the table and tickle people's feet. I can still visualize all those legs under the huge table. Dianne Gudgel-Holmes From: "McArdle, Karin M., Ms., DAPE" Subject: Thanksgiving Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:02:05 -0500 I don't have many memories of Thanksgiving as a child - unfortunately. My family moved away from 'everyone else' when I was quite young & we were a unit in and of ourselves. However, I remember one Thanksgiving VERY clearly! My father went to college at the University of Missouri on the GI Bill. At that time, he had a young immigrant wife with two very small children and very little income. We lived in a ramshackle trailer park which was set up for all the GI's going to school -- there was a central washhouse; an ice box that required ICE; a woodburning stove for heat; & blankets to separate the large room into a living & sleeping areas. Dad had 2 jobs at once - driving a cab & selling shoes - & went to school fulltime, in addition to tutoring other students. My mom took care of us and worked 12 hr shifts, three days a week at the Boone County Hospital as a nurse -- she was also learning to speak, read, & write English as she went! Those were the times that 'built character.' We lived in that trailer park from the time I was 3 until I was 5 years old -- so you know it was LONG ago. The Thanksgiving that I particularly remember was probably about 1950 -- Dad & a friend (another GI w/ family) got together & bought a live turkey. They tied the poor bird up outside the trailers for several weeks before the event, fattening it up. I was one of many neighborhood children who played with the turkey - at a safe distance - fed it, & gave it a name. I remember it strutting around & scaring us away when we got too close. We would spend HOURS watching, feeding, talking to that poor bird. When the day came to kill the turkey, Dad & his friend took it into the basement of the washhouse; I was with my mom & baby brother as we sneaked a look through the small basement window to watch the procedure. I remember being horrified when they took the hatchet & chopped off the bird's head. Blood, feathers, sqawking, etc. Dad had a heckuva' time getting that bird to cooperate! It struggled mightily for its life -- noise, feathers, feet scratching -- it was a mess! My brother cried at the loud noises; I was bawling at the sights & sounds; my mother didn't know whether to cry or laugh - she was so busy trying to watch the butchering, comforting my brother, & calming me down! She had to clean the bird & swore we would NEVER again get a live bird -- and we never did. Dad laughed at us, but he enjoyed the whole process & talked it about it for years afterward. I don't remember eating dinner that year -- we shared dinner with another family -- but watching that poor bird die at the hands of my own father was something I'll never forget. As adults, my husband & I have had many wonderful Thanksgiving celebrations with family & we hope to have many more with our own children & their families as time goes on. Thanks for sharing your stories! Karin Harper McArdle. Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 23:45:02 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: Newsletter for Gudgels. Help. I have obtained the list of names from Gail and Jack McAuley that they send announcing the coming reunions. My intention is to publish a monthly news letter regarding developments in Gudgel genealogy. Also to invite those who might have e mail to subscribe to the gudgel-list. How long this will go on is undecided at this time. Determined by finances no doubt. I want to include material from the archives on Bobs web page. I would like to include something from you too. Greetings, genealogy, what every you would like to send. Something of your personal history so you can become better acquainted with your cousins. Where you live, your history. Whatever. You might like to send something that is also going to Bob's web page. Kill two birds with one bush so to speak. I'm still typing up the mailing list so will be a few days before I get down to cases. Now is your chance to help. I need it. I think they would like to know what happened in other Gudgel families. These Gudgel's and relatives are the descendants of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel/Sarah Jones or Thomas Wiley and Emma Sarah Gudgel who moved to California in the late 20's or early thirties. There is a bunch. It used to be said around Chowchilla that you'd better be careful about talking against a Gudgel to someone as he would probably be a Gudgel. Before I started the mailing list I used this mailing to start filling out my new Genealogy program. I have 100 names now and have only scratched the surface. That is on hold while I get this mailing list together and scale it down to useful names. Hope to hear from you Doyal Gudgel>Marion Floyd Gudgel>Thomas Wiley Gudgel>Thomas Jefferson Gudgel> Henry T Gudgel>Wlliam Gudgel>Andrew Gudgel>>>>>>>>>(Adam and Eve) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:20:33 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson To: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: Re: Newsletter for Gudgels. Help. I was answering this and accidentally hit a key. It disappeared and I couldn't find it in the sent mail so suppose the answer went to cyber heaven. So here it is again. Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote: > > Doyal- > I think this is a wonderful idea! And you are so kind to do this > newsletter. Did I understand correctly that this is a newsletter mainly for > Thomas Jefferson GUDGEL's descendants or is this for all GUDGEL's? This will be for Gudgel's of any stripe. I am hoping for input from anyone who would like to contact other Gudgel's. I am hoping this can build a history of Gudgel's in America and get more understanding and knowledge of what has transpired. You have written some things about KY which I found very interesting. I want to encourage others to add their two cents so we can know them better too. This may provide gudgel-list with things of interest from people not on internet and people not on gudgel-list with information gudgel-list people have. Get that? Understand? Anyone who is on the gudgel-list who wants to get on the newsletter list let me know and I'll include you. I am really proud of the Gudgels. When I type in the names from the list Gail sent me it seems like I know each one personally. Of course I do; lots of them. Others I do not. I want to know them and how they are doing. It is sort of like a genealogists who is researching a name or person and their record makes them almost come alive. Even though that person might have lived a couple hundred years ago. Genealogists are historians. Most people like to know history. Especially if they want to know their own family history. > > This is so exciting! Wish I had the time to do something like this. Wish I did too! Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:56:36 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: GUDGEL newsletter Doyal- I would prefer to get the newsletter in a hard copy so that I can preserve it. Spoke to my brother, Sam, this a.m. in MA and he would like to receive it also. Have another brother, Windy, in FL that I am positive would like to receive it even though he's not online. I think any of us would be happy to contribute for postage costs, etc. I hope after Christmas when things settle down that I will have more time to contribute to the list. It's been a hard year for me with work and has required a lot more of me than ususal. And I would be honored to submit some material to the newsletter. I still have lots of research here that I haven't contributed to the list. Just haven't had the time. Need to organize some of it more. Got pictures, too, that I'd like to submit eventually. Keep me posted! Linda Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:55:09 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: OBIT.: Minerva STOUT GUDGEL-1925, Anderson Co., KY I recently found an obituary I was looking for in the July 2, 1925 edition of the Anderson News, Anderson Co., KY: GUDGEL- Mrs. Minerva GUDGEL, age 85, died at her home in Shelbyville Sunday morning of heart disease, and was buried Monday at the Alton Cemetery following funeral services held from the residence in Shelbyville, conducted by the Rev. D.M. Walker. Mrs. GUDGEL, widow of Jacob GUDGEL, lived most of her life near Alton and was highly regarded in that community. She is survived by three daughters, Mrs. Claud COZINE, of Shelbyville, Mrs. Preston BLAKEMORE and William BLAKEMORE of this county, and one brother, J.T. STOUT, former representative of this county, who now lives in Woodford Co. Pall Bearers were J. Irvine BLAKEMORE, William BLAKEMORE, William McBRAYER, Roy D. Money, J.W. DAWSON and Floyd THOMAS. ************************************************************************ Family Group Sheet for this family: Husband: Jacob GUDGEL-b. September 15, 1822 Anderson Co., KY, d. August 25, 1913. Son of Andrew GUDGEL and Elizabeth MOUNTJOY. First married to Mary A. GAINES I believe. Married April 29, 1857 Anderson Co., KY to: Wife #2: Minerva Julia STOUT-b. February 27, 1840 Franklin Co., KY, d. June 28, 1925 Shelby Co., KY. Dau. of David STOUT and Nancy BUCKLEY. Children : Louella GUDGEL-b. March 12, 1859, d. July 10, 1935. Marr. (1) John Wesley FIDLER (2) Preston BLAKEMORE. Louella bur. Alton Cem. Mollie Van GUDGEL-b. 1863 Anderson Co., KY, d. before 1925. Marr. Thompson THOMAS February 7, 1883 Anderson Co., KY. Atillo GUDGEL- b. October 10, 1865, d. Sept. 30, 1897. Marr. Stella GAINES. Bur. Alton Cemetery. I believe she married J.W. DAWSON after Atillo's death. Helen GUDGEL-b. November, 1868, d. After 1925. Marr. William BLAKEMORE. Martha "Mattie" M. GUDGEL-b. July 29, 1876, d. December 23, 1954. Marr. Claude P. "Matt" COZINE/COZZINE. Olivia GUDGEL-b. February 8, 1881, d. April 6, 1904. Marr. Homes THOMAS Linda Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:49:13 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gudgel Subject: L.W. and Eliza Jane Photos I just scanned and put up the pictures sent to me from Karin M. McArdle in Vienna, VA of L.W. Gudgel and Eliza Jane Farmer Gudgel into the ftp/gudgelphotos directory. It's accessable from the gudgel web/mail-list page. Their cool! Had a good thanksgiving. people 1, turkeys 0 Now, on to Christmas! Bob From: "McArdle, Karin M., Ms., DAPE" Subject: RE: L.W. and Eliza Jane Photos Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:12:11 -0500 Just a note re: captions (which I neglected to include when I sent in the pictures!). The first picture is circa 1896 & is of Eliza Jane (Kirk) Farmer and her daughter, Oma Lou Farmer (Harper) (born in May 1895) -- my great-grandmother & my grandmother. At the time of the picture taking, Eliza Jane was the 2nd wife of Embree C. Farmer. (Story has it when E.C.'s first wife died, he married Eliza to save money - she was his housekeeper & took care of his children. He didn't want to ruin a good thing, so he married her & had her do the same work - and more - without paying extra; she didn't get a housekeeper to help her!) The second picture is of L. W. and Eliza Jane Gudgel. E.C. Farmer died in 1913 & L.W. married Eliza in November 1917. I don't know when L.W.'s first wife died. Eliza was the second wife (again); she seemed to make a habit of being 'second'! I believe the picture was taken in the 1930's, but there is no date on it. Family tradition has it that L.W. & Eliza were very happy together & that he treated her very well. Eliza is buried next to her first husband in Forsythe Cemetery & L.W. is buried in the Gudgel Family plot nearby. Hope this helps a little. Thanks for publishing the pictures - they look better on the net than they do in hard copy!! Thanks again, Karin Harper McArdle. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Gudgel [mailto:bgudgel@eskimo.com] Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 1:49 AM To: gudgel-list@eskimo.com Subject: L.W. and Eliza Jane Photos I just scanned and put up the pictures sent to me from Karin M. McArdle in Vienna, VA of L.W. Gudgel and Eliza Jane Farmer Gudgel into the ftp/gudgelphotos directory. It's accessable from the gudgel web/mail-list page. Their cool! Had a good thanksgiving. people 1, turkeys 0 Now, on to Christmas! Bob Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:15:47 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: New Researcher on GUDGEL's in Illinois Hi Everybody- I got a call tonight from Michael GUDGEL of Urbana, IL. He is interested in Abraham GUDGEL's line. He wanted me to send him some information and I asked what he specifically wanted. He said everything you have! These new researchers have no idea how much data and "stuff" we researchers have collected over the years, do they? LOL He apparently has put together some info. from his family in that area. He isn't online, however, his daughter is getting a computer for Christmas and he is anxious to take a look at the GUDGEL page. He lives in Urbana, Champaign Co., IL and I think the areas of Olney and Sumner Co., IL are close by. There were a lot of GUDGEL's in those areas. If anyone wants to reach him his snail mail address is: Michael GUDGEL 208 W. Nevada St. Urbana, IL 61801 (217)328-2281 Home Doyal-he asked to be put on the newsletter address list also. Thanks. More later, Linda From: "JAS S POPE" Subject: view list Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:11:23 -0600 WHAT? (BG) Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 05:45:44 -0800 From: Ralph Johnson Subject: who is Who was it that sent the picture of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel to the list? I'd like a inter negative of it. I will pay for it of course. A good picture of it made on a good color copier on heavy paper would be ok. If it is a small picture I'd like it enlarged to 5x7 at least. As it was a painting it probably is a large picture anyway. Doyal Gudgel From: Bob Gudgel To: ralphj@eskimo.com Subject: T. Jefferson Gudgel picture and index file The Picture of Thomas Jefferson Gudgel was uploaded by Bill Webb I think. A look at the archive will reveal his address. I've put a file called INDEX00 in the gudgelphotos directory that should document sources and little things that aren't part of the file name of the picture itself. Bob Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: TIP #205 - MEMORIES, PART 1: Hi Everybody- I am forwarding 2 parts of an email I received that has to do with Memories that I am sure any of our families can relate to. This was just too good to pass up. Well worth reading. Hope it helps you all to remmeber and enjoy. Linda >Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 07:02:31 -0600 >From: Sandi Gorin >Subject: TIP #205 - MEMORIES, PART 1: >To: KYRESEARCH@rootsweb.com > >TIP#205 - MEMORIES - PART 1: > >As we approach the Christmas season, I would like again to publish >something that is not genealogical, but a part of our past. Recently on one >of the lists that I moderate, people began just remembering their childhood >days. Coming from a diverse background, these were so interesting that it >doesn't matter if the individual was Kentucky born or not. This is our past >- what makes us what we are. Let me share some of these memories with you! >I've removed the names from these as it could apply to many of us. > >AMUSEMENTS: >· Television was not only unheard of, you were doing good if one out five >had a Dome Top Radio. To this day, Glenn Miller music is among my favorite. > > >· The hit parade? Giselle McKenzie. Dorothy somebody? "Lady of Spain", >"What's Behind the Green Door?" "How Much is that Doggie in the Window?" >I loved to sit by the radio and listen to many of the radio programs - Just >Plain Bill, Stella Dallas, Portia Faces Life, and several other radio soaps >of the day. I also loved to listen to the Philharmonic Orchestra on Sunday >afternoons. > >· One of my uncles played for dances when he was 9 or 10. They never took >lessons, just picked up any instrument and played it. What a honky-tonk >piano my grandmother and aunts played. Several of my uncles were in the >band behind Tex Ritter in the movies. They knew "Dutch" Reagan and many of >the people on the Grand Old Opry. Played with Flatt and Scruggs. Also >played on WHO in Des Moines. My grandfather stomped his foot so hard, in >time to the music, that they had to put a pillow under his foot so it >wouldn't be heard over the radio! I still love that country music! > >· I remember being entertained in the evening by my other brother making >animal shadows on the wall. He made the GREATEST animals in shadow. > >· I had one uncle who was always telling ghosts stories. > >· My sister and I used to play dress up and pretend we were movie stars. >She was always Betty Grabel and I was Deanna Durbin. I can remember when >Frank Sinatra first started singing and it was a battle to see who was more >popular, Frank Sinatra or Bing Crosby. The big bands had wonderful music. >My favorites were Tommy Dorsey and Xavier Cugat. > >· Beaded dresses from the 20's, Shirley Temple dolls, every Little Golden >Book, china tea sets, real silk parachutes, dotted Swiss curtains that I >could tie around my head and run down the sidewalk, pretending that I was >The Running Bride. > >· I have memories of my grandmother and the girls would getting dressed up, >in perfume and hats and gloves and suede pumps, and ride the streetcars >downtown to go to live radio broadcasts: Bob Hope, Amos n' Andy, Bing >Crosby...I remember being disappointed that it wasn't real thunder you that >heard when you listened to the radio at home: I found out that they shook >a metal sheet in front of a microphone. I imagined that they were telling >stories on someone's back porch during a real storm! > >CLOTHING: > >· In winter we had to wear those ugly long brown stocking in that somehow >attached to our winter underwear. > >· I wore feed sack shirts and dresses and even underwear for years. Ours >was chicken feed sacks but my mother has been saying those weren't chicken >feed sacks--they were flour sacks. I liked those feed sack patterns. The >flowers and the colors were really pretty. > >· Didn't everyone's grandmother have a scrap-bag? Where else would you get >your material to crochet rag rugs from and well as make your quilts? New >material would be much too dear for rugs & quilts. And of course feed >sacks were important. It was awful not being able to get them in later >years & having to settle for that unbleached muslin/cotton at the 5 & 10. >I used them to learn to embroider kittens on dish towels, one for each day >of the week of course! > >DISEASES & ILLNESSES: >· What did they call those awful bags the kids had to wear around their >necks to ward off germs? To break a fever, my dad used to hold me under the >covers until I broke a sweat. Remember when every July and August you >couldn't go swimming for fear of getting polio? And the diseases that are >no longer...mumps & German measles & smallpox. And when you had a baby you >had to be in bed for 10 days! > >· Coal oil for every injury too. Syrup of black draught or calsodine >tablets. Cod liver oil. Giving the babies paregoric... full of OPIUM!!! > >· Mom went to the old Doc ( I still think he was the town drunk). He told >my Mom to make a certain tea to give my brother and she did. Guess what >kind of tea??? Chicken droppings in hot water! > >FARM LIFE: >· Killing chickens. I also remember the awful stench of burnt chicken >feathers, after my grandmother had chopped off the rooster's neck. I use to >help mama pluck the chickens, dip them in a boiling tub of hot water set up >outside and flat out CRIED the whole time I had to do it! Had one rooster >get my brother on the chin with his spur....needless to say...that one >became a meal shortly thereafter...and I have school photos of him with the >sore on his chin from that rooster! > >· Hand and one row corn pickers. We still own a one row corn picker and >used it up until 3 years ago. > >· I still remember going to the barn with my grandfather when he milked the >cow. Sometimes he and I would go pick blackberries. We were doing that one >hot day, when something was gleaming in the warm sun. My grandfather dug it >out of the ground and wiped the dirt away. It was an old whiskey bottle, >with the picture of a beautiful clipper ship on it. I loved it so much, he >gave it to me. I couldn't wait to get back and show everyone, my treasure. > >· My father and those like him that I knew growing up had gardens they >burned off every year...even today you'll hear that ashes are a >"fertilizer" of sorts. > >· Both my grandfathers always planted large vegetable gardens, so I grew up >helping to pick beans, peas, corn, okra, tomatoes, etc. and to help with >the canning and preserving that took place each summer. > >FOOD AND MEAL TIME! >· Apple dumplings: The apple quarters were put inside rolled dough and they >were boiled in sugar water and served with cream. > >· "Butter" came so white it looked liked a hunk of LARD, with a small >packet of food color [yellow/orange]? > >· When you could get a BIG SWEET 'TATER' from the market man for a link of >chain, that is on the days he and his horse and wagon came down the main >streets of towns. > >· Staying up till midnight and making the best divinity, fudge, popcorn >balls, and the like. > >· Breakfast: Country Ham (going out to smokehouse to get one down and wipe >the mold off), Country Eggs (going to hen house in the am to gather) (fried >up and put on a platter), Fresh Milk (got to milk cow first thing), Hot >Homemade Biscuits (with real butter that I churned tonight), Homemade >Jellies and Jams (grape, apple, peach, musidime, fried Tators (of course >they are stored in the cellar for the winter), Flap jacks (homemade of >course), Sorgum Molasse(made in our sorghum mill), Fresh Apple Cider (from >our cider mill), fresh ground sausage ( we killed hogs yesterday), >Scrambled eggs with the fresh brains of the hog we killed yesterday. Fried >chicken (yes for breakfast also, will ring necks in the am and get ready) > >· Fresh leaf lettuce chopped up with green onions chopped up and wilt with >hot bacon grease along with fried cornbread. My dad poured hot bacon >grease over chopped up green onions and soaked his flat, unsweetened >cornbread in buttermilk! He thought that was the best. My grandmother made >the best biscuits in the world...and apple pies. She always had a pot of >beans on the back burner, but the fried potatoes were crispy on the bottom >and crunchy (not quite done) on the top! Green beans were cooked until they >were just almost falling apart, with ham hocks. And her apple butter was >the best! > >· The foods Mother made were the greatest. She made hominy from home grown >corn and cottage cheese from our cow's milk. I still love black eye peas >and cornbread better than anything---especially with chow chow on top. >Nothing wrong with navy beans or pinto either. She also made hominy from >home grown corn and cottage cheese from our cow's milk. Gravy went on >anything from sliced tomatoes to fried eggs. It was a "universal topping" >in our house. Daddy used to pour hot bacon grease over his green salad in >summertime. I thought I should try drinking my milk through the "straw" of >a green onion top. It didn't work too well. I only remember apples or >oranges at Christmas (in TX) and also ribbon candy. > >· My grandfather used to eat the brains out of fried squirrel heads!!! We >has to taste pig brains. I also wouldn't eat tongue. > >· Home-made ice cream with raw eggs in it, as well as raw cookie dough and >cake batter. And not too many years ago we used to drink from any running >stream that LOOKED clean. > >· Whole milk, with the cream on top .Red apples that tasted the way an apple > >· Although not a real "farmer"...dad always had a garden...mama >canned...they even killed hogs...I remember them squealing and just bawling >over it! I remember the taste of hog's head cheese. I remember eating pork >chops from the ones he killed, sitting at the table and daddy "squealing" >every time I took a bite - set me to bawling all over again..and I wouldn't >eat my supper...many times mama had to smack him and say..."Let the child >eat her supper and hush!" > >· I remember CHITLINS!!! Cleaned and "rendered" hog intestines...believe >what they say about them....it'll drive you out of the house when they're >cooking. Ate many a chitin in cornbread. Believe it or not...but pigs feet >when preserved (pickled) are a treat to behold. > >· Grandmother Sally still cooks for anyone that comes to see her. Our >favorite is breakfast she always cooks us Choclate Syrup and Biscuits > >To be continued. (c) Copyright 10 December 1998, Sandra K. Gorin, All >Rights Reserved, sgorin@glasgow-ky.com > >Sandi Gorin - A Kentucky Colonel >205 Clements Ave., Glasgow, KY 42141 (502) 651-9114 >PUBLISHING: http://www.members.tripod.com/~GorinS/index.html >GORIN FAMILY MSG BOARD: http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb248461 >BARREN CO OBITS, WILLS, DEEDS & BIBLE RECORDS: >http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/BarrenObits >KYRESEARCHING TIPS: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Tips >KYBIOGRAPHIES: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ky/Bios > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:17:18 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Gudgel Finnell Subject: TIP #206 - MEMORIES CONCLUDED >Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:37:51 -0600 >From: Sandi Gorin >Subject: TIP #206 - MEMORIES CONCLUDED >To: KYRESEARCH@rootsweb.com > >LIVING - PLAIN AND SIMPLE >· The bedroom doors opened that had been shut all day with no heat! and >that blast of freezing air coming out! Cold featherbeds and a ton of >quilts on top of you!!! Waking up to the smell of coffee and bacon. >Standing close to the stove until your behind was red hot, then turned to >warm the other side. The community water dipper that everyone drank from. >The one wash pan that everyone washed their hands in before eating! >Throwing a tablecloth over the leftovers and everyone picked around on the >food all day with no refrigeration! Catalogs and spiders in the outhouse! >The smell outside when it was snowing and silent...and the air hung heavy >with the smell of burning coal in every house. > >· Even after my grandfather had water piped up to the house my grandmother >refused to drink it because it tasted rusty! She drank water drawn from >the well until the day she died in 1963! One wonders what health inspectors >today would say about that old oaken bucket! No running water! Saturday >night baths in the old wash tub sitting in the kitchen floor. > >· Cream separators, churns, wash boards, slop for hogs, gathering corn by >hand, outhouses, dinner (that mid day meal) left on the table with a table >cloth, going out on Sunday morning catching a chicken and wringing it neck >to cook for Sunday dinner, stepping in chicken ** with the bare feet, or in >the lot with the cows. > >· In the early seventies, my great-grandma still lived alone in the same >house she'd been in for 60 years (she was 88 at the time). She cooked on >a wood stove, because she didn't trust the electric ones not to explode. >The wood man delivered the wood to her front yard, she would chop it >herself and haul it to the back yard in a wheelbarrow. She also used a >wringer washer, for the same reason she used the wood stove. The only >electricity was used for lights, she also still used an ice-box (same >reasoning). One year my parents bought her a pressure cooker for >Christmas, to use in canning the multitude of fruits and vegetables she >grew in her back yard. Nope, it might explode. > >· Lived in a 2 room house...took a bath in a # 3 tub...no running >water...hauled water in a beer keg...with a little red wagon!!! Finally >got a spigot in the side yard when I was in the 8th grade. I remember mama >heating water in that #3 tub on top of the stove many a time for baths for >us 3 kids. The 2 rooms in our house consisted of a kitchen and a room we >all slept in. A wood stove. Mama also heated water on the stove to wash >dishes by hand. > >· Using kerosene lamps for light at times. We did have electricity but it >did go out from time to time. Daddy would drag out those lamps. After I got >old enough to think about things...I wondered why Lincoln wasn't blind from >reading by the things! > >· Running for the feather bed where mom had heated an iron, wrapped it and >placed it in the bed to keep my feet warm. > >· Mom ran the switchboard when I was growing up and you could count on the >party line to keep the neighbors informed when ever you made a phone call. >Course they would be the first ones there when you needed help. Helped do a >lot of canning and still do as much as I have time for. > >· We finally got an old wringer type washer the first thing I did was run >my arm through the wringer, child like, it went pass the elbow. Scared >everybody to death. > >MISCELLANEOUS: >· I will never forget the odor of DDT. I think we didn't get sick because >we didn't have time to - or knew we didn't have the $$ for a doctor visit >so no sense being ill. > >· When the nickel was worth a nickel and *the silver penny was not worth a >dime, only a penny. > >· When you could walk to school without being terrified of being >kidnapped? Or having a drive-by shooting? > >· An airplane was a thing to truly be amazed with, the radio was something >you would walk miles to see operate, the motorcar. The phonograph was all >the rage, talking movies were just over the horizon, Television, what the >heck is that?. Atomic energy? Never heard of a diesel engine, how about the >telephone, party line, what no auto dial? > >· Dad went rabbit and squirrel hunting.. We were not amused with killing >the bunnies and needless "I" wouldn't eat one if I was starving! It was all >I could do to think of chickens grown and dressed at our place as any kind >of food! I use to catch them and pet them. Daddy taught my 2 brothers how >to trap....they'd go out before school and check traps and reset >them...("we" were not happy with THAT either!) > >· The button box. My grandmother had an old tin filled with old and >sometimes new buttons - we would spend hours going through it and listening >to the stories behind each button - my mother has that box now and it will >be passed on to me - unfortunately I don't remember all the stories, but >still, I can't wait to own that box of buttons! > >· Halloween: When the air was chilly and the night air was spooky and the >moon was large and orange, and there were all those outhouses just BEGGING >to be dumped over. And the neighbors were one step ahead and sitting in >them, just waiting for someone to dare try! > >· I had a plan to cut the toe of my stocking out and put a box at the >bottom, so Santa would just keep filling and filling and filling. Somehow >that never happened. > >· Cars in l930 were $200. I remember Dad bought a new car in l939 and paid >$999.00 for it. It had a heater. I can remember passing people traveling >and they were wrapped up in blankets. > >WAR: >· The Saving Stamps you purchased with your lunch money and the air raid >warnings. > >· Mother reading to us the war news after the mail ran each day. There was >a map showing where the fighting was heavy that day. It showed where the >Allied front was and the Axis front. I was so scared that when a plane >went over, I thought it would bomb our house. Sugar rationing and shoe >rationing. Gas rationing didn't bother us as we traveled in a wagon, pulled >by 2 horses, to town, church and visiting. I remember when our neighbor >showed up at school to pick up his daughters. Their brother was missing in >action. He later was freed from a POW camp. I remember when the war was >over. We children danced around the chinaberry tree in the yard. > >· World War II was Uncles going off to war and Mom worrying about if they >were going to get home. > >· Most everything went in to the war effort--no money for gas, and if you >did have money--no ration coupons. Same thing was true for film, food, and >lots of other things. I remember when Pearl Harbor was bombed, the hushed >tones in which the adults spoke, and then five of my uncles left for war. >One of my most vivid memories is of my grandmother Clark sitting by the >radio each day listening to the news concerning the war. My dad's only >sister worked in what was then called the "bomber plant" here in Fort >Worth, as did many women in this area. > >· Going out to weed the Victory Garden that our President asked everyone to >plant so each family would be sure to have vegetables and not have to go >without. I still have a book of rationing stamps. > >· Being home listening to the radio, probably listening to Amos and Andy on >a Sunday morning when the terrible news came of the bombing that started >the war. My dad went immediately down Monday morning to see if he was >going in as he was planning on changing jobs. He was turned down for a >heart murmur. But my uncle was drafted and he was in Guadal canal, a >terrible battle, but survived. I started making a scrap book of the >pictures of where the yanks were. Each day in the Boise Statesman was a >picture of where the soldiers had advanced. I cut that picture out and >pasted it in every day of the war. > >· When the Japanese children were taken out of the schools and put into >camps. Two of my best friends were Japanese and we cried a lot. > >· City-wide blackouts. > >· The day the war was over. My aunt and my grandmother and I had gone >downtown and we were again on a streetcar. All of a sudden, all the >grownups began to hug each other for no reason, with no warning. Cars >zigzagged down the street, honking their horns. Every church bell rang. >People threw hats and newspapers into the air. They were laughing and >crying and running into the streets. Strangers picked me up and lifted me >above their heads, passing me from hand to hand down the length of the >streetcar, cheering and whistling and crying. Every grownup in the world >had gone completely nuts! I was terrified and astonished that such a thing >could happen. > >Other memories by Sandi: I thought in conclusion that I would add a few >of my own memories. They are random memories accumulated over 58 years and >aren't world shaking - but they are me. > >Dad being drafted during World War II, failing for some health reason and >my screaming out to my Mom that I saw the Sunbeam (seal beams)headlights of >our car when he returned from the draft board. The top of our car being >caught on fire when a town Fourth of July display's fireworks got too >close. Those wonderful 4th of July parades, the fireworks - all of us >children running around with our sparklers. The Saturday night movie in our >little town of 300, a screen and projector being set up on the field of the >grade school, everyone sitting on blankets with picnic lunches. Running >boards. Growing up next to my grandparent's house with my grandmother's >acre of beautiful flowers she showed each year at State Fair - the apples, >pears, peaches, plums, grapes and berries (including what I thought my Mom >had called poison berries!) The outside pump for all our watering needs. >Our first sink with a little pump on the side. Taking the Saturday night >bath in a big tub on the kitchen floor. Inside plumbing later being >installed and my dropping my Lone Ranger ring in the commode and >overflowing the entire first floor. My grandmother's canning. The threshing >parties with tables set all over the side lawn with the women folk cooking >for hours and eating last. Riding in the wagon hitched up to Doc and >Molly. Eating raw soybeans (I still hunger for the smell of soybeans!) My >cousin and I gathering eggs and reaching a snake instead. Our eating more >strawberries that we got in the basket, bing cherry tomatoes. Going to the >State Fair and screaming in fear at the top of the ferris wheel, having to >be brought back down. The merry-go-round and not being allowed to get close >to the "freak shows" as they were then called. Seeing my first television >at my grandparents - Friday night boxing matches, Saturday morning >cartoons, Mickey Mouse Club, The Pinky Lee Show, Howdy Doody, the Saturday >night wresting matches, Milton Berle show, Red Skelton, The Show of Shows. >Listening to the radio to the Green Hornet, The Shadow, Fibber Magee and >Mollie Going to school in a little country school, riding the school bus - >and sometimes missing it! The "sick room" at the school, having the same >teacher several years at a time, usually the one I didn't like very much. >Listening to President Truman announce the new law that a president could >only serve two terms. The beautiful nighttime skies with more stars than >I've seen the rest of my life. Hearing the principal announce that Russia >had placed a satellite in orbit called "Sputnik" and being afraid to go >outside at recess in case the Russians were flying over and taking pictures >of us. The bomb shelters. Hop-skotch, playing jacks, jumping ropes an the >jungle gyms. Failing miserable at girls's basketball and being unable to >pitch well in softball. Going to basket ball games on the school bus. Deep >snows, hot summers, no air conditioning. I'd better quit before reaching >much deeper into the 50's - the "Happy Days" generation. Hope you have >enjoyed this series! Merry Christmas. > >(c) Copyright 10