Subject: Andrew Godshalk/Gatchkil, brother of Frederick.

From: Linda Gudgel Finnell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 18:40:41 -0400

Hi Folks-

I am probably going to shake things up a bit concerning Daniel Gudgel ,
but here goes:

I have enough documentation now that I truly believe Daniel is the son of
Andrew Gottshall/Gatchkil, brother of Frederick, and uncle of old Andrew.
This Andrew, brother of Frederick, was born in Germany and came to America
about 1742- after Frederick was here.  He is buried in Red Rock Cemetery,
Luzerne Co., PA.  There is a picture of his stone on FindaGrave but the
date is below ground now so I don't a specific date of death.

I have worked on this for a long time and it was driving me crazy!  I
believe Daniel came to Woodford Co., KY with our old Uncle Andrew.  He and
his wife, Rachel Gause, were here a good while and returned to PA to care
for her ailing father.  They later came back here and then moved on to
Jefferson Co., IN. (I have read that Rachel was shunned by her family for
marrying Daniel- out of faith).

I have found that Andrew Gottschall/Gatchkil married Catherine Elizabeth
Pancake (Pannakucka) , daughter of Yost Pancake(Pannakucka).  She was born
1731, Franconia Two., Montgomery Co., PA.

They had three known children:

Maria Johanna Godshalk

Ester May Godshalk

Daniel Gudgel

(The two girls were baptized in the Tohickon Church records if you
remember).

So, I feel confident with what I have found.  Some may disagree but that's
ok.  Let's all chew on this for a while and then we can discuss it- good or
bad.  Hope everyone has had a good Labor Day weekend.    Blessings to you
all!

Linda

from Kentucky

History of Bedminster, Bucks Co., PA, 1976, by Bedminster Bicentennial
Committee-Pauline Cassel. Harry C. Adams, Publisher, Adams Apple Press,
page 31:

Mills: In discussing the oldest mills of Bedminster....

"However, there is another old mill- one I believe may be older than 1749.

We begin with two brothers, Andrew and Grederick Gatchkil (Godshalk).

Andrew received a grant from Thomas and Richard Penn of 25 acres in 1743.
On that 25 acres, he built a grist mill. Frederick purchased twelve acres
of land from Eleazor Doan (Doan received 217 acres from Thomas and Richard
Penn) in 1738. This purchase of Godshalk from Doan took place in 1746. On
his twelve acres Frederick has a mill pond. These two lots were contingious
and located on the Tohickon Creek.

Between 1746 and 1749, Frederick Godshalk died and left his twelve acres
plot with a mill pond to his wife, Mary Anne. In 1749 on May 30, Andrew
sold his grist mill to his sister-in-law, Mary Anne Godshalk, and her
partner, Yost Panakucka.

On June 19, 1749, a month later,, Mary Anne Godshalk and Yost Panakucka
sold their Grist Mill and Mill Pond to John Trout. On May 17, 1753, John
Trout sold the same mill to Jacob Stout. This then, is the Jacob Stout mill
on the Tohickon, which has a road laid out to it from the Durham Road."

---

From: Dianne Holmes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:01:35 -0800

Thanks for bringing this up, Linda.

I'd like to discuss the uncle Andrew--brother to Frederick Gottshall. They show 
up as brothers in some early documents and while you weren't able to find uncle 
Andrew's birth date, I'd like to propose that our Old Andrew was too young to be 
the person involved in the inheritance (and buying property) mentioned in some 
early documents. 20 something boys were still considered pretty young as far as 
I recall reading. Does anyone know more?

The citation that we have all seen many times, about Andrew and Catherine having 
two girls who were baptized in the Tohickon Church, is, I believe, actually 
uncle Andrew. I wish we could trace Catherine further.

And of course I'd like to be able to find more of Daniel's early records. But 
I've never seen anyone report that Dan may have been the son of our Old 
Andrew--with any confirmation, that is. Linda, do you have more evidence?

Interesting that Catherine is the daughter of Yost Pancake because some of you 
may know that one of Frederick's daughters married a Pancake. I believe we have 
old emails from a Pancake family who was doing research on this. Or was it the 
Trout/Kraut family (who another of Fred's daughter's married).

Linda, do you have uncle Andrew's immigration records that you can share?

I thought that Daniel and Rachel moved to ILL?

Would it be possible to find the actual document where Will Penn gave Andrew G 
the 25 acres in 1743?

Dianne Gudgel-Holmes

On 9/3/2018 2:40 PM, Linda Gudgel Finnell wrote:
>
> Hi Folks-
>
> I am probably going to shake things up a bit concerning Daniel Gudgel ,  but 
> here goes:
>
> Luzerne Co., PA.  There is a picture of his stone on FindaGrave but the date 
> is below ground now so I don't a specific date of death.
>
> I have worked on this for a long time and it was driving me crazy!  I believe 
> Daniel came to Woodford Co., KY with our old Uncle Andrew.  He and his wife, 
> Rachel Gause, were here a good while and returned to PA to care for her ailing 
> father.  They later came back here and then moved on to Jefferson Co., IN. (I 
> have read that Rachel was shunned by her family for marrying Daniel- out of 
> faith).
>
> (The two girls were baptized in the Tohickon Church records if you remember).
>
> bad.  Hope everyone has had a good Labor Day weekend.    Blessings to you all!
>
> Linda
>
> from Kentucky
>
>
>
> Committee-Pauline Cassel. Harry C. Adams, Publisher, Adams Apple Press, page 31:
>
> Andrew received a grant from Thomas and Richard Penn of 25 acres in 1743. On 
> that 25 acres, he built a grist mill. Frederick purchased twelve acres of land 
> from Eleazor Doan (Doan received 217 acres from Thomas and Richard Penn) in 
> 1738. This purchase of Godshalk from Doan took place in 1746. On his twelve 
> acres Frederick has a mill pond. These two lots were contingious and located 
> on the Tohickon Creek.
>
> Between 1746 and 1749, Frederick Godshalk died and left his twelve acres plot 
> with a mill pond to his wife, Mary Anne. In 1749 on May 30, Andrew sold his 
> grist mill to his sister-in-law, Mary Anne Godshalk, and her partner, Yost 
> Panakucka.
>
> On June 19, 1749, a month later,, Mary Anne Godshalk and Yost Panakucka sold 
> their Grist Mill and Mill Pond to John Trout. On May 17, 1753, John Trout sold 
> the same mill to Jacob Stout. This then, is the Jacob Stout mill on the 
> Tohickon, which has a road laid out to it from the Durham Road."
>
> 　
>
> 　
>
> 　
>
> 　
>
> 　
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:02:53 -0400

Hi Linda and Diane,

I know I haven't spoken up in years, but I have been reading your emails for about two decades!  I haven't had any time until very recently to work on genealogy, but I am very excited to be getting started again.

I'd like to make sure I understand what these last 2 emails indicate.  Are you saying that Old Andrew was not actually the father of Maria Johanna Godshalk and Ester May Godshalk, and that his Uncle Daniel is their father?  That likely means that Old Andrew did not have 17 children after all, like my family's lore said.  My grandmother's old family papers (nothing is actually documented) say that he had 17 children and 3 wives.  But that must really be wrong, since you've found a lot of info indicating otherwise.

Also, does that mean that Old Andrew did not have 3 wives, since Catherine Elizabeth was not actually his wife, but was his Uncle Andrew's wife?  (Do you recall where were you able to find that Catherine Elizabeth's maiden name was Pannakucka?)  I also have that Old Andrew's other 2 wives were: ) Barbara or Anna Barbara Houch (or Hoch or Koch) who was born in 1731 (undocumented date) and 2) Elizabeth Jane (Paul) Payn (or Payne) who was born in 1763 in Kentucky.   

Thank you so much for any light you can shed on this for me.

Kellee Meyer

P.S.  Hope you all had a good Labor Day weekend.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Dianne Holmes <[email-masked]>
To: Linda Gudgel Finnell <[email-masked]>; gudgel-list <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Sep 3, 2018 4:01 pm
Subject: Re: Andrew Godshalk/Gatchkil, brother of Frederick.

Dianne Gudgel-Holmes

---

From: Dianne Holmes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 18:23:56 -0800

Kellee,

It is confusing. So let me try to make my thoughts clearer:

Our old Andrew was not the father of Maria and Ester, rather Andrew's uncle 
Andrew was, in my estimation.

I don't believe our Old Andrew had three wives because I believe people have 
been including Catherine (Maria and Ester's mom), as one of his wives over the 
decades but without clear evidence. We are very clear that Barbara Hoch and Eliz 
Paul Payne were Old Andrew's wives, however.

I know that Old Andrew's gt? grandson, Levin Gudgel of Indiana wrote a letter in 
1895 stating Andrew had three wives, but I don't know who that other one would 
be. My reasoning about Catherine is that our Old Andrew was born in 1727 and men 
simply didn't have the resources to marry in their early 20s.

I'd love to get Wm Penn's document that gave Uncle Andrew the 25 acres in 
1743--the yr he was to have arrived in PA. If we could get that, we might be 
able to sort some things out.

Please--if any of you have more information to add, speak up.

I guess we should start a spread sheet of all the info we know about Old and 
uncle Andrew and draw lines on it just like the detectives do when solving a 
case (at least they do that on TV).

Dianne Gudgel-Holmes

On 9/3/2018 6:02 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Hi Linda and Diane,
>
> I know I haven't spoken up in years, but I have been reading your emails for 
> about two decades!  I haven't had any time until very recently to work on 
> genealogy, but I am very excited to be getting started again.
>
> I'd like to make sure I understand what these last 2 emails indicate.  Are you 
> saying that Old Andrew was not actually the father of Maria Johanna Godshalk 
> and Ester May Godshalk, and that his Uncle Daniel is their father?  That 
> likely means that Old Andrew did not have 17 children after all, like my 
> family's lore said.  My grandmother's old family papers (nothing is actually 
> documented) say that he had 17 children and 3 wives.  But that must really be 
> wrong, since you've found a lot of info indicating otherwise.
>
> Also, does that mean that Old Andrew did not have 3 wives, since Catherine 
> Elizabeth was not actually his wife, but was his Uncle Andrew's wife? (Do you 
> recall where were you able to find that Catherine Elizabeth's maiden name was 
> Pannakucka?)  I also have that Old Andrew's other 2 wives were: ) Barbara or 
> Anna Barbara Houch (or Hoch or Koch) who was born in 1731 (undocumented date) 
> and 2) Elizabeth Jane (Paul) Payn (or Payne) who was born in 1763 in Kentucky.
>