
From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  1 00:49:15 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 17:47:38 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:56 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>>I don't foresee an instantaneous transition. Not everyone can afford a new 
>>car overnight, so some gas powered vehicles will remain on the roads for 
>>some time.
>
>When one-third of the vehicles no longer consume gasoline, gas stations 
>will go out of business in droves, making it difficult to maintain the 
>remaining gasoline vehicles. Gas station profit margins are small. A slight 

This just means that the profit margin at the pump will increase, as people driving gas powered cars will be forced to pay higher prices for a scarcer (due to distribution restrictions) product.

>reduction in consumption in the 1970s forced many out of business. When 
>two-thirds are CF powered, the remaining gasoline vehicles will quickly be 
>forced off the road. The same dynamics will force a quick changes to other 
>fossil fuel based technologies, such as beef production.

Why do you think that beef production is specifically fossil fuel powered?
(i.e. why no CF powered beef production?)

>
>
>>Gas stations will be scrapped, or converted to other businesses (Burger 
>>King? ;).
>>The employees will find work in the CF industry . . .
>
>There will be no CF industry. All of the labor now performed by 400,000 
>skilled workers in the U.S. will be replaced by the labor of a dozen low 
>level technicians operating the heavy water extraction machinery.

That is only for the fuel. You are forgetting the manufacture and distribution of the devices themselves.
[snip]


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  1 09:36:01 2002
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From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
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Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
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Discussions about a CF economy are premature until we know what the true
consumables are. We have assumed that it is just deuterium, of which there
is an essentially unlimited supply. I have not seen an accounting of the
energy necessary to extract heavy water from normal water. There is reason
to believe that the successful devices will be gas phase, so the energy cost
to produce D2 gas and its storage must be included.

Do not forget the massive cost in energy and capital to extract U235 from
mined and purified uranium. Evidence from the Case and Arata cells suggest
that the active sites are nanoparticles of Pd, or special zones on the
surface of solid cathodes/targets. Evidence suggests that measured energy
comes from very small active sites which may be destroyed by the violence of
the reactions themselves.

Thus it may come to pass that active sites have to be manufactured, and they
may be "consumed" by the reaction itself. Thus the consumable may be the
sites as well as the deuterium.

I hope this pessimistic picture is not so. But we simply don't know. All we
can say now is that the LENR effects are real, but we don't know what it
takes to make them happen on an industrial scale. Our focus should be not on
still trying to prove LENR real, but on experiments to characterize active
sites so that replicable devices can be built.

Then market forces can work their magic as Jed has so often stated.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  1 10:35:59 2002
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> >will go out of business in droves, making it difficult to maintain the
> >remaining gasoline vehicles. Gas station profit margins are small. A slight
>
>This just means that the profit margin at the pump will increase, as 
>people driving gas powered cars will be forced to pay higher prices for a 
>scarcer (due to distribution restrictions) product.

I do not think so. First, the cost of gasoline will drop below the level 
anyone can a profit with, because there will be so much raw material left, 
and so many refineries and tankers. Second, fewer and fewer mechanics will 
know how to repair the older gasoline powered cars. When the transition 
from mainframe and minis to microcomputers was half over, the remaining big 
computer users had difficulty finding trained entry level people and spare 
parts. The same forced transition occurred with:

sailing ships => steam ships
steam locomotives => diesel
14" & 8" hard disks => 5.5" disks

. . . and in many other transitions. Some of the reasons I have not listed 
are discussed by Christensen in "The Innovator's Dilemma."


>The same dynamics will force a quick changes to other
> >fossil fuel based technologies, such as beef production.
>
>Why do you think that beef production is specifically fossil fuel powered? 
>(i.e. why no CF powered beef production?)

I was confusing two separate issues. Beef production will undergo rapid 
change, but I do not predict production will be reduced or the industry 
wiped out. However, rapid change is usually accompanied by increased 
automation and reduced manpower, even when the change is not prompted by 
labor cost or manpower shortages. New machinery usually requires fewer 
operators.

I said beef production is fossil fueled because meat production is energy 
intense. It takes 13,500 kcal of fossil fuel to produce 375 kcal of beef 
(one serving), compared to 3,065 kcal of fuel per 375 of sweet corn or 
other vegetables. (Pimentel, p. 192, 193.)


> >There will be no CF industry. All of the labor now performed by 400,000
> >skilled workers in the U.S. will be replaced by the labor of a dozen low
> >level technicians operating the heavy water extraction machinery.
>
>That is only for the fuel. You are forgetting the manufacture and 
>distribution of the devices themselves.

I have not forgotten that. The work force now devoted to making gasoline 
engines and coal, wind and nuclear generators will make CF engines instead. 
There will be no net increase in employment. In fact, during the transition 
the labor force will probably contract, for the same reason the meat 
industry labor force will.

I am looking up labor statistics and will report back, but in any case, 
people working to derive energy from fuel will all lose their jobs. They 
include, for example, people working at oil wells, tankers, pipelines, 
refineries, storage tanks, delivery trucks and gas stations. In the 
electric companies they include everyone who works on power distribution 
network (half of the power company infrastructure) and all manufacturers of 
wind turbines, hydroelectric dams, pollution abatement equipment 
manufacturers. There are host of other supporting industries. Also the DOE 
will be defunct. I, for one, will not miss it. I believe the total number 
of workers is around 500,000 in the U.S. These are mainly skilled jobs, 
except at gas stations. These jobs will vanish within a decade after the 
introduction of the first CF automobiles and generators. Even the 20% of 
the oil market now devoted to synthetics can better be met with CF. That 
will be cheaper, safer and cleaner, and it will require virtually no human 
labor.

I believe the people in charge of the fossil fuel industry realize this, 
and I suspect they may actively oppose CF for that reason.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  1 10:36:10 2002
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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 13:31:48 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
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Mike Carrell wrote:

>Discussions about a CF economy are premature until we know what the true
>consumables are.

I do not think so. To some extent this does not matter as much as it did 
with previous energy systems, because of the special nature of CF.


>There is reason to believe that the successful devices will be gas phase, 
>so the energy cost to produce D2 gas and its storage must be included.

The "energy cost" or "energy overhead" may be high. Suppose the industry 
consumes 20% of its own energy output. That is roughly how much the oil 
industry consumes to keep the drills, pipelines, tankers and refineries 
running. However, the dollar cost of this "energy overhead" will be zero. 
If it takes a few extra terajoules of energy  to keep the heavy water 
plants running, no one will notice the dollar cost.

Actually, I worked out the numbers for heavy water in an unpublished 
article submitted to I.E., based on present day heavy water production for 
fission reactors in Canada and India. I found that overheat is likely to 
high at first, but it should drop to below 1% after the industry is 
established.


>Do not forget the massive cost in energy and capital to extract U235 from 
>mined and purified uranium.

The equipment and pollution cost might be significant, but the energy will 
cost nothing.

Ed Storms thinks that U CF fuel is problematic, for conventional chemical 
reasons.


>Thus it may come to pass that active sites have to be manufactured, and 
>they may be "consumed" by the reaction itself. Thus the consumable may be 
>the sites as well as the deuterium.

If the metal itself is permanently consumed -- that is, transmuted -- and 
only Pd can be used for CF, then all bets are off. In that case, CF can 
only satisfy a small fraction of our energy requirements. I worked out the 
numbers in the unpublished article. If the Pd is contaminated and has to be 
remanufactured then the overhead economic & energy cost will be modest.

Most of today's Pd production goes into automobile catalytic converters, 
and it ends up being spewed out into the landscape, especially the soil and 
water next to major highways, where it may be a major health & 
environmental threat. Fortunately, CF engines will sealed tight.


>I hope this pessimistic picture is not so. But we simply don't know. All 
>we can say now is that the LENR effects are real, but we don't know what 
>it takes to make them happen on an industrial scale.

On the other hand, we know how much energy the most successful experiments 
so far have produced, and we know the ratio of material to energy. If CF is 
ever commercialized, every CF motor will work far better than the best 
laboratory demonstration yet observed, so we can estimate the overall 
industry requirements. Joseph Henry performed experiments that showed a 
telegraph is possible. The first commercial telegraphs installed years 
later were much better than his demonstration. The first transistors circa 
1948 were nowhere near as good as the first commercial products 6 years later.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 10:33:24 2002
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Subject: Novel EM impulse / ESD generator
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Gentlemen,

Here is something of a meatier mystery, probably very explainable, but with
a novel mechanism...and fun to try too!  Follow the tale here...

About 6 years ago, I tried replicating a claim from Italy of a mysterious
technology device that had purportedly been "received" in a dream state from
an alien intelligence.  Knowing the potency of dreams - Kekule and the
Benzene ring come to mind - I volunteered to build some of said device.  The
core of the device was supposed to be rock salt nuggets (halite) and liquid
phase mercury metal together in a sealed and evacuated ampoule.  The
original claim was that this was sort of the core mechanism of an appliance
that was supposed to be a telepathic amplifier or psychotronic device.

When I got around to building some of these mercury / salt vacuum tubes, I
came to find that they DID very nicely produce a novel (though not
necessarily alien) effect!  When gently shaken, to allow the mercury to
slosh back and forth over the rock salt, one could see,  if in a dark room,
sparkles and flashes of plasma from around the halite.  If one held the tube
near to the antenna of an AM radio, a strong broad band EM "hash" would
produce crackling and hissing.  Very cool, very peculiar.  The system was
sensitive to moisture.  I generally needed to dessicate the halite and tube
before adding the Hg and pumping / sealing.  When scoping the emissions, it
looked a lot like one might expect - many tiny spikes and bursts of
microscopic lightning induced noise.

A couple of years ago, I had about 100ml of mercury in a pyrex flask, and I
was trying to look for anomalies that might result when the mercury was
swirled about.  What I found was that even without evacuation, when the
mercury was either shaken or swirled strongly and chaotically in the round
bottom flask, and held near an AM radio antenna, the same sort of broad band
EM "micro-spark" emissions were apparent again, just as they were with the
Hg / halite tubes.

Well then,  today, I found yet another method for producing this effect -
whatever exactly it is.  One does not need (thankfully) the liquid mercury.
Fine gauge lead shot will work fine!

I took a pint mason jar, and filled the bottom with about 100 ml of lead
shot - I think about 1.5mm diameter (#10??).  With the lid off, I dried it
in the oven at about 250F for 1/2 hour.  I then removed it and let it cool,
then put the lid on.

If one swirls the jar within about 8 inches of the AM radio antenna, a
maelstrom of crackling and hissing results.  My guess is that if the jar
were evacuated, you would see quite a light show!  Putting the shot into a
polycarbonate cup produces a similar effect.  However, a ceramic coffee cup
or tupperware cup give no effect!  The emissions are shielded effectively by
aluminum foil.  For best results, tune to the upper end of the AM band -
around 1.5 to 1.6 MHz.

What big monkey fun for a Labor Day weekend!  Comments are welcome.

NR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 11:04:08 2002
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Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
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Jed said:

> Mike Carrell wrote:
>
> >Discussions about a CF economy are premature until we know what the true
> >consumables are.
>
> I do not think so. To some extent this does not matter as much as it did
> with previous energy systems, because of the special nature of CF.
>
>
> >There is reason to believe that the successful devices will be gas phase,
> >so the energy cost to produce D2 gas and its storage must be included.
>
> The "energy cost" or "energy overhead" may be high. Suppose the industry
> consumes 20% of its own energy output. That is roughly how much the oil
> industry consumes to keep the drills, pipelines, tankers and refineries
> running. However, the dollar cost of this "energy overhead" will be zero.
> If it takes a few extra terajoules of energy  to keep the heavy water
> plants running, no one will notice the dollar cost.

I was thinking in terms of the whole ecosystem energy cycle. It has been
argued (perhaps mistakenly) that if one totals the entire energy cost --
mining, refining, transportation, support, etc., of a nuclear plant against
the energy output over its life cycle, and then add the energy cost of
decommissioning, etc., that the overall balance is negative. Maybe this is
just "greenie" rhetoric. If one got D2 by fractional distillation, then
energy must be invested to boil all that water, and the heat of evaporation
of water is among the highest. The energy yield from the fraction of D2
recovered may well pay for the distillation with energy left over. In that
case desert nations can have a healthy industry by boiling sea water to get
fresh water and minerals and selling the excess D2 to a world market.
Eventually these costs will be reflected in currencies, but that was not
what I was thinking of.

>
> Actually, I worked out the numbers for heavy water in an unpublished
> article submitted to I.E., based on present day heavy water production for
> fission reactors in Canada and India. I found that overheat is likely to
> high at first, but it should drop to below 1% after the industry is
> established.
>
>
> >Do not forget the massive cost in energy and capital to extract U235 from
> >mined and purified uranium.
>
> The equipment and pollution cost might be significant, but the energy will
> cost nothing.

Are you so sure? I haven't seen any numbers. I'd be happy to be wrong in
this case.
>
> Ed Storms thinks that U CF fuel is problematic, for conventional chemical
> reasons.
>
>
> >Thus it may come to pass that active sites have to be manufactured, and
> >they may be "consumed" by the reaction itself. Thus the consumable may be
> >the sites as well as the deuterium.
>
> If the metal itself is permanently consumed -- that is, transmuted -- and
> only Pd can be used for CF, then all bets are off. In that case, CF can
> only satisfy a small fraction of our energy requirements. I worked out the
> numbers in the unpublished article. If the Pd is contaminated and has to
be
> remanufactured then the overhead economic & energy cost will be modest.

A point was missed. My word "manufactured" includes in the extreme the use
of wafer fab technology to create arrays of carefully tailored active sites.
This is not as tricky as making transistors, but if such were necessary and
a
wafer of LENR sites cost $100 and produced 10 kWh of energy because all the
sites got blasted, then the process would not be cheap. If it turns out that
the LENR effect depends on a narrow range of atomic arrangements and doping
which are destroyed in the reaction, then we are in trouble. Remember that
Patterson looked like he had a wonderful way to make a CF cell until
suddenly the process went dead because it depended on some variable he was
unaware of and could not control. One of the tragedies of the CF quest is
that he did not sell out to Motorola, whose pockets are very deep. Miley has
not made any public progress
with his thin film approach. I believe Jed mentioned that a Chinese
researcher reported at ICCF-9 that he has some success in working with
Patterson-style beads.

What we hope for is a coating process that will produce acres of doped
nanoparticle Pd (or other) that works well and is disposable if necessary.
But we are not there yet. When we are there, then the macroeconomic effects
Jed has mentioned can take effect.

>
> Most of today's Pd production goes into automobile catalytic converters,
> and it ends up being spewed out into the landscape, especially the soil
and
> water next to major highways, where it may be a major health &
> environmental threat. Fortunately, CF engines will sealed tight.
>
>
> >I hope this pessimistic picture is not so. But we simply don't know. All
> >we can say now is that the LENR effects are real, but we don't know what
> >it takes to make them happen on an industrial scale.
>
> On the other hand, we know how much energy the most successful experiments
> so far have produced, and we know the ratio of material to energy. If CF
is
> ever commercialized, every CF motor will work far better than the best
> laboratory demonstration yet observed, so we can estimate the overall
> industry requirements. Joseph Henry performed experiments that showed a
> telegraph is possible. The first commercial telegraphs installed years
> later were much better than his demonstration. The first transistors circa
> 1948 were nowhere near as good as the first commercial products 6 years
later.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 11:44:14 2002
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, Schnurer <herman@antioch-college.edu>
Subject: Please: Help find physics experiment by Raymond Chaio
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	Dear Vo,

	Does anyone know where to find descriptions of the physics
experiment by Raymond Chaio?

	He wrote he would conduct to verify or explore his theory of
action of high Tc superconductors and microwave energy.

	The experiment is described as investigation of interaction 
between high Tc superconductors and microwave electromagnetic energy.
        
	Please request to various groups to ask if anyone has been
	able to find his experimental physics, description of same 
	and URL if available.

					Thank you,

							JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 12:00:49 2002
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John Schnurer wrote:

>         Dear Vo,
>
>         Does anyone know where to find descriptions of the physics
> experiment by Raymond Chaio?

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/summ.htm

Fourth one down.

Terry

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> Does anyone know where to find descriptions of the physics
> experiment by Raymond Chaio?

If you mean Raymond Chiao of Berkeley, then SciAm carried this article a couple
of months ago:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00032353-36AB-1CDC-B4A8809EC588EEDF&c
atID=2

The is a citation to Chiao's paper in the article...

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>I took a pint mason jar, and filled the bottom with about 100 ml of lead
>shot - I think about 1.5mm diameter (#10??).  With the lid off, I dried it
>in the oven at about 250F for 1/2 hour.  I then removed it and let it cool,
>then put the lid on.

wouldn't it have been better to put the lid on immediately? then, as the jar
cooled, you would have had a partial vacuum inside...


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 12:31:04 2002
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
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Mike Carrell wrote:

>I was thinking in terms of the whole ecosystem energy cycle. It has been
>argued (perhaps mistakenly) that if one totals the entire energy cost --
>mining, refining, transportation, support, etc., of a nuclear plant against
>the energy output over its life cycle, and then add the energy cost of
>decommissioning, etc., that the overall balance is negative.

I doubt it. I have not run the numbers for that, but for the embodied 
energy in the building materials and construction for the plant itself, 
industry literature generally says the "energy payback time" is 6 months. 
This is not as good as a a gas-fired turbine or wind turbine, which pay 
back in 1 or 2 months. The mining & refining of fuel does take a lot of 
energy, but fission produces prodigious amounts per gram. Only a few big 
plants have been decommissioned so the data is hard to come by, but costs 
are expected to be in the range of 0.1 ~ 1.0 cents per kWh electricity for 
all of the electricity generated over the life of the plant. That is 
reasonable. The industry is now putting aside 0.1 cents for 
decommissioning, by law. Some anti-nuke experts say this is not enough, but 
no one claims the number should be 6 cents or 10 cents/kWh, which would be 
more than the market value of the electricity.

Bear in mind that present day fission reactors are incredibly inefficient. 
Only ~4% of the potential fission reactions occur, as I recall, and only 
1/3rd of the heat converts to electricity. It is on par with the Newcomen 
steam engine in 1712. It is like cutting down an entire tree to manufacture 
a toothpick.


>If one got D2 by fractional distillation, then energy must be invested to 
>boil all that water, and the heat of evaporation of water is among the 
>highest. The energy yield from the fraction of D2 recovered may well pay 
>for the distillation with energy left over.

It would pay for it MANY, MANY times over! At present, it takes 38,000 
MJ/kg to extract heavy water. (Heavy Water Board, Department of Atomic 
Energy, Government of India, Mumbai, 
http://www.heavywaterboard.org/docs/prenov14.htm). The techniques have not 
improved much since the 1950s. Mitsubishi and others have proposed much 
more efficient methods with cheaper equipment. Early model CF reactors will 
only convert a tiny fraction of the potential energy in a kilogram of heavy 
water into useful heat, but even so, the potential fusion energy in 1 kg of 
D2O is 115,000,000 MJ, or ~3,000 times more than it take to produce the D2O.


>In that case desert nations can have a healthy industry by boiling sea 
>water to get fresh water and minerals and selling the excess D2 to a world 
>market.

The D2 will be worth nothing. Once CF reactors becomes reasonably 
efficient, the entire world will consume ~10,000 tons of D2O per year, 
which will be produced as needed by a few modest sized machines on site in 
factories. That is, factories where they make automobile motors or home 
generators. The fuel will be built in, and it will last for the life of the 
machine. Shipping & storing heavy water contaminates it it would not be 
worth shipping a few tons from North Africa to an auto plant in Michigan, 
when the plant in Michigan can make that water itself at essentially zero cost.

However, I predict that desert nations will build a healthy industry 
boiling water. They will produce the most valuable substance on earth: 
fresh water. It is the most common substance, yet the most valuable. Fifty 
years after they begin doing this, there will be no desert nations. Large 
chunks of North Africa & the Gobi will once again be the most verdant and 
productive farmland on earth, as it was in ancient Roman times before our 
ancestors ruined it. In fact, there will be no deserts anywhere except the 
ones we want: areas preserved as huge national parks. (It would be a 
dreadful thing to eliminate *all* deserts! We only want to reclaim the ones 
our ancestors created by accident.)

As a side benefit, these formerly-desert nations may eventually extract 
enough minerals and metals from the concentrated brine to shut down most 
mines on earth, and lower the cost of magnesium by a few orders of 
magnitude. That will become particularly useful as agriculture finally 
comes to an end, and we produce food in a more efficient, ecologically 
sound manner.


> > The equipment and pollution cost might be significant, but the energy will
> > cost nothing.
>
>Are you so sure? I haven't seen any numbers. I'd be happy to be wrong in 
>this case.

Any amount of energy will cost nothing. We will have enough to terraform 
Mars, ship the Sierra Nevada mountain range to Jupiter, or break the moon 
into small chunks and never miss the energy. We will not count the cost of 
energy for any project on any scale any more than American Indians did when 
they set fire to millions of acres of forest. They did that to keep the 
forests healthy, burn the underbrush and increase the game animal 
population. The Indians used up billions of megajoules of energy without a 
second thought -- and of course there was no reason to worry about it, and 
no shortage of firewood!


>A point was missed. My word "manufactured" includes in the extreme the use 
>of wafer fab technology to create arrays of carefully tailored active 
>sites. This is not as tricky as making transistors, but if such were 
>necessary and a wafer of LENR sites cost $100 and produced 10 kWh of 
>energy because all the sites got blasted, then the process would not be 
>cheap. If it turns out that the LENR effect depends on a narrow range of 
>atomic arrangements and doping which are destroyed in the reaction, then 
>we are in trouble.

This cannot be long term problem. Already, a few CF cathodes have produced 
prodigious amounts of energy, enough to be commercially viable. (That is, 
to pay for the Pd or Ni and whatever processing they underwent). Pd and 
ceramics have melted. It happened accidentally and we have no idea how to 
reproduce it, but before the first commercial generator is installed, we 
will have to learn all of that and more. If it can be done once in a 
laboratory now, after heroic measures and hundreds of failed attempts, it 
will someday be done routinely in millions of machines. Think of difficult 
it was for Edison et al. to make the first prototype incandescent light, 
and how many failed attempts they made. Ten years later there were millions 
of reliable lights.


>Remember that Patterson looked like he had a wonderful way to make a CF 
>cell until suddenly the process went dead because it depended on some 
>variable he was unaware of and could not control.

There *must be* a way to control it. Until we find that variable, CF will 
not be commercialized. There is no reason to think this elusive variable is 
particularly difficult to find, compared to the variables that screw up the 
production of countless other products such as batteries, paint, beer, CRTs 
and so on. I expect all it will take is money. CF is not magic. Even if the 
mechanism remains unknown, we will find the material parameters that 
control it.


>One of the tragedies of the CF quest is that he did not sell out to 
>Motorola, whose pockets are very deep.

!^ #&$!!! No comment.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 12:52:56 2002
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	Dear JB,

	Did the Article convey the Results of the Experiment?

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Jones Beene wrote:

> 
> > Does anyone know where to find descriptions of the physics
> > experiment by Raymond Chaio?
> 
> If you mean Raymond Chiao of Berkeley, then SciAm carried this article a couple
> of months ago:
> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00032353-36AB-1CDC-B4A8809EC588EEDF&c
> atID=2
> 
> The is a citation to Chiao's paper in the article...
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 12:59:04 2002
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From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Novel EM impulse / ESD generator
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> If one swirls the jar within about 8 inches of the AM radio antenna, a
> maelstrom of crackling and hissing results.  My guess is that if the jar
> were evacuated, you would see quite a light show!  Putting the shot into a
> polycarbonate cup produces a similar effect.  However, a ceramic coffee cup
> or tupperware cup give no effect!  The emissions are shielded effectively by
> aluminum foil.  For best results, tune to the upper end of the AM band -
> around 1.5 to 1.6 MHz.
>
> What big monkey fun for a Labor Day weekend!  Comments are welcome.


Depending on how la-bored you are today, here are some keywords (for a Google
search) that may help:

1) Triboelectricity insulator dielectric

(Triboelectric currents are generated by charges created between a vibrating
conductors and insulator due to friction

2) "electron-phonon interaction"

Also, there is a lot of information in the vortex archives from Fred Sparber on
the possible correlation of LL (light lepton) phenomena with static electricity
and ESD


A possible secondary experiment/s comes to mind - Objective: to determine if
there is any correlation between the volume (or size) of lead shot being
vibrated and the peak RF frequency emission...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 14:04:48 2002
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	Dear Nick,

	The Giessler Tube:
	The URL, below is..."OK" but not great.

	http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/geissler.html


	The classic Geissler tube was evacuated, and a mixture of 
 inert gasses and air, hydrogen or others was allowed to enter and then
the tube was pumped down to lower pressures.
	An amount of mercury was then allowed to flow into the tube.

	Then several factors were controlled to allow for good light
output and novel coors and performance:

	A)	The internal diameter of the tube was limited in some
but maybe not all of the length, by design.
	B)	The glass paths and the varying diameters were designed to
			interact with;
	C)	An appropriate mass of Mercury.  
	D)	Often the physical size of the mass of Hg was such that it
could completely block off the Internal Diameter of the tube and its
physical weight could and did vary the pressures on one side of the mass
and the other.
	E)	The friction of the Hg made a high enough triboelectric
level of voltage to cause discharges and a wonderful play of ever changing
lights would result as long as the user shook, tilted and otherwise
agitated the tube....
	F)	No external electric current was NEEDED... but the tubes
were often connected to "Static Machines" and or other sources of
electricity.

		UC

	Ultra Cool


On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Nicholas Reiter wrote:

> Gentlemen,
> 
> Here is something of a meatier mystery, probably very explainable, but with
> a novel mechanism...and fun to try too!  Follow the tale here...
> 
> About 6 years ago, I tried replicating a claim from Italy of a mysterious
> technology device that had purportedly been "received" in a dream state from
> an alien intelligence.  Knowing the potency of dreams - Kekule and the
> Benzene ring come to mind - I volunteered to build some of said device.  The
> core of the device was supposed to be rock salt nuggets (halite) and liquid
> phase mercury metal together in a sealed and evacuated ampoule.  The
> original claim was that this was sort of the core mechanism of an appliance
> that was supposed to be a telepathic amplifier or psychotronic device.
> 
> When I got around to building some of these mercury / salt vacuum tubes, I
> came to find that they DID very nicely produce a novel (though not
> necessarily alien) effect!  When gently shaken, to allow the mercury to
> slosh back and forth over the rock salt, one could see,  if in a dark room,
> sparkles and flashes of plasma from around the halite.  If one held the tube
> near to the antenna of an AM radio, a strong broad band EM "hash" would
> produce crackling and hissing.  Very cool, very peculiar.  The system was
> sensitive to moisture.  I generally needed to dessicate the halite and tube
> before adding the Hg and pumping / sealing.  When scoping the emissions, it
> looked a lot like one might expect - many tiny spikes and bursts of
> microscopic lightning induced noise.
> 
> A couple of years ago, I had about 100ml of mercury in a pyrex flask, and I
> was trying to look for anomalies that might result when the mercury was
> swirled about.  What I found was that even without evacuation, when the
> mercury was either shaken or swirled strongly and chaotically in the round
> bottom flask, and held near an AM radio antenna, the same sort of broad band
> EM "micro-spark" emissions were apparent again, just as they were with the
> Hg / halite tubes.
> 
> Well then,  today, I found yet another method for producing this effect -
> whatever exactly it is.  One does not need (thankfully) the liquid mercury.
> Fine gauge lead shot will work fine!
> 
> I took a pint mason jar, and filled the bottom with about 100 ml of lead
> shot - I think about 1.5mm diameter (#10??).  With the lid off, I dried it
> in the oven at about 250F for 1/2 hour.  I then removed it and let it cool,
> then put the lid on.
> 
> If one swirls the jar within about 8 inches of the AM radio antenna, a
> maelstrom of crackling and hissing results.  My guess is that if the jar
> were evacuated, you would see quite a light show!  Putting the shot into a
> polycarbonate cup produces a similar effect.  However, a ceramic coffee cup
> or tupperware cup give no effect!  The emissions are shielded effectively by
> aluminum foil.  For best results, tune to the upper end of the AM band -
> around 1.5 to 1.6 MHz.
> 
> What big monkey fun for a Labor Day weekend!  Comments are welcome.
> 
> NR
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 14:09:47 2002
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	Thear JB,

	Chiao Writes:

	" ....... A simple, Hertz-like experiment has been performed to
test these ideas, and preliminary results will be reported.  ........"

	PLEASE:

	Do you have this information about the results of:

	The  "......simple, Hertz-like experiment ......"

	Or even the configuration of the set up?


			THANKS	<-------

						JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 15:09:06 2002
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These effects have a long history.  In 1676 the French astronomer Jean Picard noticed this very phenomenon when moving his mercury barometer in a darkened room.  This eventually led to the creation of glass frictional electrostatic machines by Hauksbee and others in the early 1700s.

This is sort of interesting because glass is not an obvious choice for triboelectric charging.  It's kind of hard to get started.  Most of the globe, cylinder and disk type glass machines had leather friction pads impregnated with a tin-mercury amalgam.  Faraday mentions smearing this amalgam on a silk cloth in order to rub a glass tube to charge it.

You were fortunate to have swirled your mercury around in a Pyerex flask because I have discovered that modern common bottle glass is quite conductive at these voltages and almost impossible to charge frictionally.  I have no idea whether this is intentional or coincidental.  Maybe the manufacturers want to prevent the accidental formation of Leyden jars.

Other metals besides mercury and lead will work.  You can rub a piece of aluminum foil on a Pyrex or other borosilicate glass to get quite a crackling noise on the AM band.

M.




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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  2 20:20:29 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Transition to a CF economy
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:16:13 +1000
Organization: Improving
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References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688@ix.netcom.com> <e5rnmu8qhmmru1totbu9m45f5dn2512q9k@4ax.com> <3D6BEDDB.F6709737@ix.netcom.com> <it0omus88imkgi0n23crl969fa1ddhv44j@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14..2.20020828104706.02b2b540@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <g6h3nuoggqkbsgciaaksiks7n33c1k2alh@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020901130917.03236e78@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <001401c252c3$becb73a0$0258ccd1@asus> <5.1.0.14.2.20020902142413.0323e698@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
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In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:17:39 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Bear in mind that present day fission reactors are incredibly inefficient. 
>Only ~4% of the potential fission reactions occur, as I recall, and only 

This doesn't sound right. If only 4% of the fissionable material has been used up, then surely a 4% withdrawal of the dampening rods would compensate (first order approximation). The 4% number sounds to me more like an
enrichment %.
[snip]
>>One of the tragedies of the CF quest is that he did not sell out to 
>>Motorola, whose pockets are very deep.

Perhaps now that he has problems he would be more open to a deal with Motorola, though I suspect the price would be somewhat lower now.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep  4 08:23:19 2002
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Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:22:52 -0400
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The University of Michigan maintains a significant government 
statistical database including one category on energy at:

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/statsnew.html

FYI

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep  4 14:42:50 2002
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Subject: Need proofreader for "Accountability in Research" articles
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Adil Shamoo, the editor of the journal "Accountability in Research," 
has  graciously given us permission to reprint all eight articles from the 
2000 issue of the journal devoted to cold fusion. Scott Chubb sent me the 
manuscripts of the articles in Microsoft Word format. Some of the 
manuscripts were changed slightly before the final paper version was 
published. I do not have a paper copy. Scott  is sending me one. If anyone 
has a printed copy, would you please volunteer to proofread some of these 
papers?

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep  4 18:29:14 2002
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"Hope you got airbag."

A quotation from "Independence Day" presages a real life application of 
the disputed force:

http://physicsweb.org/article/world/15/9/6

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep  4 19:38:24 2002
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On Wednesday, September 4, 2002, at 03:27  PM, Terry Blanton wrote:

 >"Hope you got airbag."

Well, we got gecko. Isn't that what holds their little lizard-feet to 
the falls with their billion miniscule foot-hairs?

 >A quotation from "Independence Day" presages a real life
 >application of the disputed force:

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep  5 09:37:46 2002
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Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Well, we got gecko. Isn't that what holds their little lizard-feet to 
> the falls with their billion miniscule foot-hairs?


Yep, more hairs than Bilbo Baggins:

http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20020828-15736904.htm

Terry (who's car insurance is from gecko)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep  6 18:29:03 2002
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Sep 06, 2002
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:52:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 6 Sep 02   Washington, DC

1. HERBAL NONSENSE: DON'T MESS AROUND WITH MOTHER NATURE.  Even
as many of the most popular herbal medications failed miserably
when subjected to actual tests (WN 23 Aug 02), one concoction of
saw palmetto, said to include seven Chinese and Indian herbs,
seemed to be just as effective in treating prostate cancer as the
latest prescription drugs.  This was not as remarkable as it
seemed: as a natural dietary supplement, PC-SPES could be sold
over the counter without proof of purity or effectiveness (WN 16
Aug 02).  But the FDA contended PC-SPES contained prescription-
only drugs, and pulled it off the market.  It is now confirmed by
independent laboratories that PC-SPES contained warfarin, a blood
thinner, indomethacin, an analgesic, and synthetic estrogen.
These are prescription-only drugs not found in nature.

2. PATENT NONSENSE: COURT DENIES BLACKLIGHT POWER APPEAL.  The
status of BlackLight Power's intellectual property is fuzzier
than ever.  BLP was awarded Patent 6,024,935 for "Lower-Energy
Hydrogen Methods and Structures," a process for getting hydrogen
atoms into a "state below the ground state" (WN 18 Feb 00).  You
might expect these shrunken hydrogen atoms, called "hydrinos," to
have a pretty special chemistry.  Do they ever!  Indeed, a second
patent application titled "Hydride Compounds" had been assigned a
number and BLP had paid the fee.  Several other patents were in
the works.  That's when things started heading South.  Prompted
by an outside inquiry (who would do such a thing?), the patent
director became concerned that this hydrino stuff required the
orbital electron to behave "contrary to the known laws of physics
and chemistry."  The Hydride Compounds application was withdrawn
for further review and the other patent applications were
rejected.  Since the one patent already issued involves the same
violations of basic laws of physics, there is a cloud over its
status as well.  BLP filed suit in federal court arguing that it
was too late for the Patent Office to change its mind.  The court
was not impressed, so BLP appealed the decision.  In denying the
appeal, the court said the Patent Office has a responsibility to
take "extraordinary action" to withdraw a questionable patent.
The long-awaited IPO may have to wait a little longer.

3. LANCE BASS: MAYBE THE RUSSIANS JUST DON'T LIKE MUSIC.  Russian
space officials say the boy-band star stiffed them on the $20M
fare to the ISS, so they evicted him from Star City and gave his
seat on Soyuz to a box of supplies.  But MirCorp still needs the
dollars, and deals are still being discussed.  One is said to
involve a major soft drink company.  Pepsi and Coke have fought
it out in space for years.  Mir cosmonauts inflated a giant Pepsi
can on a space walk (WN 5 Nov 99), while Coke was involved in
developing a $3M micro-gravity Coke machine that gave only foam
when it was tested before a world-wide audience on television.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's, and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep  7 13:34:47 2002
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Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 16:34:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, jhermanschnurer@netscape.net
Subject: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume sales
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	Dear Vo,

	I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
magnets.
		IN INCHES
	size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")

	these are about the size used in the ramps found in 
	www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com

	I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
		greater numbers. 

				Thank you,

						JH Schnurer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep  7 13:54:18 2002
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From: "Mark Goldes" <mgoldes msn.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume sales
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 13:53:09 -0700
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John,

You might try Dowling-Miner in Sonoma, CA.

Best,

Mark


>From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com, jhermanschnurer@netscape.net
>Subject: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume 
>sales
>Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 16:34:04 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>	Dear Vo,
>
>	I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
>hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
>magnets.
>		IN INCHES
>	size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")
>
>	these are about the size used in the ramps found in
>	www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
>
>	I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
>		greater numbers.
>
>				Thank you,
>
>						JH Schnurer




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  8 05:07:32 2002
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 <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020907161010.9449E-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 02:06:21 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume
 sales
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What...  catch a dose of SMOT fever?  ;)

- Rick Monteverde,
Honolulu Hawaii




>	Dear Vo,
>
>	I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
>hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
>magnets.
>		IN INCHES
>	size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")
>
>	these are about the size used in the ramps found in
>	www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
>
>	I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
>		greater numbers.
>
>				Thank you,
>
>						JH Schnurer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  8 06:32:14 2002
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John,

Try Bunting Magnetics at-

http://www.bunting-magnetics.com/magnets/index_ceramic.htm

They have a variety of materials and sizes plus ship from stock and offer
quantity discounts.

Regards,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schnurer" <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <jhermanschnurer@netscape.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume sales


>
> Dear Vo,
>
> I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
> hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
> magnets.
> IN INCHES
> size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")
>
> these are about the size used in the ramps found in
> www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
>
> I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
> greater numbers.
>
> Thank you,
>
> JH Schnurer
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  8 15:35:16 2002
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
Reply-To: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: DM...!  Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high , volume sales
In-Reply-To: <v04210102b9a0ed7ee7c1 [192.168.123.4]>
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	Dang man!

	That sounds icky-pucky ....eeeuuuwwww uuhhhhh....

		doah you ears fall off if you hammah SMOT fever?
		......an if youah eeeoahs faaahhw ouuff .... howem you
		heah anydding affah thdat?
	I think I am fine.....

	Colin seems to have found an AMAZING source... that is IF
his information is true.....
	Colin writes:

	"....420 magnets (3/4 x 1/2 grade 3, ceramics) 
		cut specifically....."
	This is some bodacious cutting...... 3/4 by 1/2 ... I am guessing
inches ......These must be REALLY thin!

	If they have the normal strength of type 3 ceramics...then a stack
		of 420 should be good and FLAT .... andreallypotent.  


	The only part I have so far is this Chinese connection.....
	I have NO idea how long it would take to order and get ....

	Any US people you know of????

	



On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> What...  catch a dose of SMOT fever?  ;)
> 
> - Rick Monteverde,
> Honolulu Hawaii
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >	Dear Vo,
> >
> >	I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
> >hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
> >magnets.
> >		IN INCHES
> >	size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")
> >
> >	these are about the size used in the ramps found in
> >	www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
> >
> >	I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
> >		greater numbers.
> >
> >				Thank you,
> >
> >						JH Schnurer
> 


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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Colin Quinney <crquin rogers.com>
cc: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: 3/4 by 1/2 by WHAT????   and how long to get 'em?  US please
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	I would MUCH rather a US supplier....

	how long will it take to order, and come from China???

	3 weeks by boat.... or 7 days by air at 7.6 gazillion USD???


On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Colin Quinney wrote:

> OFF LIST
> 
> Dear John,
> 
> If you order direct from China, you can find the lowest cost magnets I've
> yet seen.
> 
> A member of the Hamel list purchased ceramic magnets from China direct from
> factory. Yuxiang Magnetic Materials Ind. Co. Ltd.
> http://www.magnets.com.cn/in3a.htm
> 
> His cost of 420 magnets (3/4 x 1/2 grade 3, ceramics) cut specifically for
> him was £20, (about US $30.00) plus cost of transport. So the magnets alone
> cost him about (US) 7 cents each. In-stock items should cost even less. If
> you send them your required size information, they will ship via various
> methods at your request. Try to get standard sizes (in-stock, & less
> expensive). Contact them for quotes. You must pay the shipping costs and
> which will probably cost more than the merchandise itself.
> 
> To avoid any possible misunderstandings, you might even consider mailing
> them a sample magnet and then ask for quotes on "in-stock" similar (or
> identical) size for quantities of 100, 500, 1000, etc.
> 
> If you are going to attempt the "closed loop" Adsitt Ramp all I can say is
> that watching the video his variation looked a LOT more promising than the
> SMOT.
> http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/menu/adsitt.htm
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Colin
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Schnurer" <herman antioch-college.edu>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <jhermanschnurer@netscape.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:34 PM
> Subject: Searching for US ceramic magnet source, medium to high volume sales
> 
> 
> >
> > Dear Vo,
> >
> > I am searching for a permanent magnet supplier in the US,
> > hopefully.  I am intending to buy a large number of powerful ceramic
> > magnets.
> > IN INCHES
> > size ~~  0.375 (3/8") by 0.875 (7/8") by 1.875 ( 1 and 7/8")
> > these are about the size used in the ramps found in
> > www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
> >
> > I am looking to purchase 200 plus and will consider fewer or
> > greater numbers.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > JH Schnurer
> >
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.385 / Virus Database: 217 - Release Date: 9/5/2002
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  8 17:20:40 2002
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, Schnurer <herman@antioch-college.edu>
Subject: http://www.dowlingmagnets.com/perm.htm  MAGNET supplier
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	Dear Vo.,

	50 cents each, 1-500
	Not too bad.
	
				Your Magnetical Pal,

						JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep  8 21:32:36 2002
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Subject: Tilley Device Update
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
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Sunday evening, 9/8/02 -- Update on Carl Tilley's Device
   by Eugene F. Mallove  (www.infinite-energy.com)

       "Free Energy" Car Suffers Mechanical Breakdown

   The potential record-breaking event by an electric vehicle at the
Nashville SuperSpeedway this Saturday morning (9/7/02) disappointed
Tennessee inventor Carl Tilley, his associates, and about a hundred other
people attending the admission-free gathering, when a wheel bearing failed.
See www.tilleyfoundation.com for the company's promotional material and
information.  The Tilley Foundation had rented the new SuperSpeedway for an
expected all-day run to crush, with a margin of hundreds of miles, the world
record for an EV of 220 miles. The group had rented the SuperSpeedway at a
reported rental cost of about $5,000.
   Tilley claims to have invented a device that re-charges batteries
on-the-fly in automobiles and in fixed installations, using no evident fuel
or power source (except whatever energy may be accessible from the space
vacuum). Photos of this device that are circulating show what looks like a
very small electric motor with its output shaft penetrating an approximately
one cubic foot metal box.  Independent observers who have been to Tilley's
lab say that this is the device that Tilley claims is also powering his
building.
   Tilley's 1981 DeLorean, retrofit with a conventional electric motor and
controller (purchased, we confirmed, from EV America of Wolfboro, New
Hampshire), had to stop its planned multi-hundred mile demonstration after
only about 18 miles of high speed driving (moving in the 70-90 mph range,
estimated by observers).  Its left rear wheel bearing failed, making the car
inoperable for any more laps. An independent engineer from New York, who had
driven to Nashville in HIS unconverted DeLorean, confirmed to the attendees
that DeLorean vehicles are particularly prone to such bearing failures ‹ his
own vehicle had had several such bearing failures in the past.
   Our colleague, engineer Jan Roos, who witnessed Saturday's demonstration
relates that Tilley and his associates promise another public demonstration
soon, which will involve TWO vehicles ‹ the DeLorean with new bearing
replacements on all wheels, and a retrofit SUV of some kind.  By doing this
they hope to insure a successful demonstration.  They have privately
promised also a public demonstration of an electric-powered single-engine
piloted aircraft, to be flown from Florida to somewhere in New England!
Prior to the mechanical failure Saturday, the airplane flight was to have
occurred before the end of October.  Douglas Littlefield of Vermont,
Tilley's spokesman, told me that they have obtained FAA approval for such a
test flight.
   Jan Roos told me this evening that he inspected the vehicle as closely as
possible, with the various compartments open, and there was no evidence of
any kind of auxilliary batteries or another concealed engine. It is an
electric vehicle, period.  Two of the compact Tilley devices, with drive
belts attached, appeared to be near the engine, Roos said.  In the rush to
start the early morning, all-day run on Saturday, Roos was not able to
measure the initial 12, 12-Volt Wal-Mart battery pack voltage. However, the
voltage reading immediately after the car stopped was 137 V, measured by
Roos' DVM.  The pack recovered to 144.8V within about 20 minutes after this.
Chemical recovery of storage battery potential is a known phenomenon, of
course. Tilley understands this, but noted to Roos that his device continues
*some* of its recharge functioning after vehicle motor shut down.  It is not
clear what the average voltage of the battery pack would be during
high-speed travel -- assuming the recharging claims are valid.
   Tilley and his associates claimed to Roos and others that the DeLorean
had been driven 202 miles on a drive to Kentucky in the few weeks preceding
the 9/7 public test, which if true would be remarkable.  (The world record
for a capable EV was by a Geo-Metro that went 220 miles.)  Despite these
dramatic claims, at this time it is not possible to draw conclusions about
any anomalous performance of the vehicle. This must await further public
demonstrations. It is noteworthy, however, that despite the embarrassing
mechanical failure, there seemed to be no reluctance by the inventor and his
business associates (many evidently from Vermont) to promise further
demonstrations ‹ soon.  This is a positive development.
   Prior to the 9/7/02 test, I had called Bob Batson, who runs EV America in
Wolfboro, NH.  I asked him how far a 3,000 lb De Lorean equipped with 12,
12-Volt (130-A-hr) batteries would be expected to travel, at say 60 mph,
before stopping due to battery exhaustion. He ran his calculation and said
that at 60 mph the car would travel at maximum 52 miles, but the average
stopping distance would be 37 miles.  This should put past and future claims
by Carl Tilley and his associates in proper perspective.
   Roos said he learned that the Tilley Foundation's plan is to sell the
rights to the technology as soon as possible. There have been many
interested parties, it is said.  One non-negotiable requirement, Roos
learned, is that the purchasing entity must agree to put the technology into
the marketplace within three years, or the rights revert back to the Tilley
Foundation.
   Infinite Energy magazine will provide continuing coverage of efforts to
validate or disprove, publicly and privately, the very large claims of Carl
Tilley and his associates.

In closing let me note the location of a few reports by others, before and
after the Sept. 7th event:

******
http://www.greaterthings.com/news/tilley/press_releases/020908_demo_report.h
tm

AND

http://www.tennessean.com/business/archives/02/09/22041880.shtml?Element_ID=
22041880
******

Sincerely,


Dr. Eugene F. Mallove
Editor-in-Chief, Infinite Energy Magazine
Director, New Energy Research Laboratory
PO Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302-2816
   editor infinite-energy.com
   www.infinite-energy.com
Ph: 603-228-4516
Fx: 603-224-5975




     
 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 08:07:33 2002
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tilley Device Update
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Gene; VO:

None of This surprises me.  Yes this type of failure (along with several
others) are known bugs in the DeLorian design and likely the only reason
that the 'homebrew' EV geeks haven't scooped them all up.  Currently the
favorite is a mid 80s Dodge Colt.  

At least they aren't screaming &#34;Sabotage&#34; and blaming it on the
'Men In Black' Geese like we all know the MIB have that flashy thing that
makes you forget. :-)

Anyway there is more.

--- &#34;Eugene F. Mallove&#34; &lt;editor infinite-energy.com&gt; wrote:
&gt; I asked him how far a 3,000 lb De Lorean equipped with
&gt; 12, 12-Volt (130-A-hr) batteries would be expected to travel, at say
60

What is this rating?  I remember &#34;Ordinary car batteries&#34;  e-g 
Typical 60 AH.  Secondary cell capacity is rated in AH  'Ampere Hours'. 
Car batteries are typically 60 AH.  Other ratings would be the CCA (Cold
Cranking Amps)  Which a typical value would be like &#34;650 CCA&#34;   

What is &#34;130-A-hr&#34;  If this is Ampere Hours then this is no
ordinary car battery.  The biggest thing you can buy off the shelf at
Wall*Mart is 100 AH and is too big to fit in most cars. 


&gt; mph, 
&gt; before stopping due to battery exhaustion. He ran his calculation
and
&gt; said
&gt; that at 60 mph the car would travel at maximum 52 miles, but the
&gt; average
&gt; stopping distance would be 37 miles.  This should put past and
future
&gt; claims
&gt; by Carl Tilley and his associates in proper perspective.

calculated or real?..  Are we still talking about battery ratings?

Concerning the calculations.  In previous messages the (power
consumption) numbers of this system where offered showing ~35HP   This is
much more then what is necessary to propel a MONSTROUS PICKUP TRUCK down
the road at 60MPH.

The DeLorain should require only 4 or 5 HP.  With 12 60 AH batteries it
should run for about ~10hr at 60mph giving the car a ~600 mi battery
range.

IF you consider the increase of battery performance offered by pulse
charging the battery during use then you can see he will be proving
nothing. by running the D all day at 120

We already know what it takes to get a car going down the road.  Maybe if
Tilly had asked someone about that before he started then he would not be
offering that C&amp;B fuel efficiency based calculation.  

              Then again maybe he did?? 
                       Which would suggest inappropriate behavior

&gt;    Roos said he learned that the Tilley Foundation's plan is to sell
&gt; the
&gt; rights to the technology as soon as possible. There have been many
&gt; interested parties, it is said.  One non-negotiable requirement,
Roos
&gt; learned, is that the purchasing entity must agree to put the
technology
&gt; into
&gt; the marketplace within three years, or the rights revert back to the
&gt; Tilley
&gt; Foundation.


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 08:09:18 2002
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From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
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I receive very few Vortex messages each day. 5 yesterday, and only one (my
own posting on Tilley) so far today.  This has been going on now for over a
month. So, unless you guys are unbelievably quiet -- hard to imagine that!
--something must be wrong in the vortex system.

Gene Mallove

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--- "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com> wrote:
> I receive very few Vortex messages each day. 5 yesterday, and only one
> (my
> own posting on Tilley) so far today.  This has been going on now for
> over a
> month. So, unless you guys are unbelievably quiet -- hard to imagine
> that!
> --something must be wrong in the vortex system.
> 
> Gene Mallove
> 
I have noticed the same...

But there doesn't seem to be any gapes in the threads.


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

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On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:16:12AM -0700, Charles Ford wrote:
>=20
> --- "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com> wrote:
> > I receive very few Vortex messages each day. 5 yesterday, and only one
> > (my
> > own posting on Tilley) so far today.  This has been going on now for
> > over a
> > month. So, unless you guys are unbelievably quiet -- hard to imagine
> > that!
> > --something must be wrong in the vortex system.
> >=20
> > Gene Mallove
> >=20
> I have noticed the same...
>=20
> But there doesn't seem to be any gapes in the threads.
>=20

Everyone's just quiet Eugene.  I've not noticed any problems.

Joe
--=20
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain;
and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Albert
Einstein, 1921

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 10:44:42 2002
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Leon, my real estate broker, attended Saturday's demonstration of the 
E  V Delorean. We talked this morning and he wanted to know what I 
knew about cold electricity. I told him that it was part of the 
mythos of F E. Various researchers among them Roger Hastings' 
observations on Newman's energy machine, and Floyd Sweet's reports of 
his research, have reported this phenomena. Hastings noted that the 
machine cooled off the room when it ran, and Sweet reported that this 
electricity made a light bulb glow, while it got cold. Sweet reported 
that this form of electricity was produced by the proper conditioning 
of the magnets. Sweet also observed that being near to cold 
electricity made him tired, as though this form of energy pulls the 
life force out of you, which would make it something that would be 
best avoided.

The webmaster of the Adams motor website 
http://www.geocities.com/theadamsmotor/cdmotor.html claims that when 
the motor he has pictured on his website is properly constructed, the 
MOSFET transistor gets cold. That is the primary reason that I 
promised the MN Tesla Society t	hat I would build one.

This letter is being sent out to various people who are interested in 
F E research to ask if any of you have a reproducable way to generate 
cold electricity?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 11:42:33 2002
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Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:39:31 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>

> This letter is being sent out to various people who are interested in
> F E research to ask if any of you have a reproducable way to generate
> cold electricity?


This fellow, Chris Arnold, who was on this forum for a while until several
observers asked for clarification or expressed justifiable questions about some
aspects of his results (including the claimed drop in temp) - and he mistook
anything less than immediate adulation to be either derogatory remarks and/or
just a case of somebody trying to steal his idea, and left in a hufff - anyway
he claimed his device was a "cold current" kind of thing...

...in the Joe Newman "sparking commutator" tradition, of course

not that there's anything wrong with that...

unless you're an investor...


http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html?mtbrand=AOL_US

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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
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Chris has a link on his page

mailto:hypercom59 aol.com

AOL is still allowing access so it is likely that he is still using that
address.  Actually I never noticed him making an accociation to "cold
electricity" only that there was a cooling effect.  



--- Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net> wrote:
> From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
> 
> > This letter is being sent out to various people who are interested in
> > F E research to ask if any of you have a reproducable way to generate
> > cold electricity?
> 
> 
> This fellow, Chris Arnold, who was on this forum for a while until
> several
> observers asked for clarification or expressed justifiable questions
> about some
> aspects of his results (including the claimed drop in temp) - and he
> mistook
> anything less than immediate adulation to be either derogatory remarks
> and/or
> just a case of somebody trying to steal his idea, and left in a hufff -
> anyway
> he claimed his device was a "cold current" kind of thing...
> 
> ...in the Joe Newman "sparking commutator" tradition, of course
> 
> not that there's anything wrong with that...
> 
> unless you're an investor...
> 
> 
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html?mtbrand=AOL_US
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 16:18:40 2002
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From: Dean Miller <dtmiller midiowa.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Missing messages?
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:18:25 -0500
Organization: Miller and Associates
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:12:17 -0700, "Eugene F. Mallove"
<editor infinite-energy.com> wrote:

>I receive very few Vortex messages each day. 5 yesterday, and only one (my
>own posting on Tilley) so far today.  This has been going on now for over a
>month. So, unless you guys are unbelievably quiet -- hard to imagine that!
>--something must be wrong in the vortex system.

It's summertime, summertime, sum ... sum... summertime.

-- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 17:29:43 2002
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

--Boundary_(ID_d6W9fVuJssR9J7B5yeh6RA)
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Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020909202751.12678F college.antioch-college.edu>

>
>
>         Can you please point me to any reasonably complete text on what
>                 cold electricity is?
>         By this I mean an explanation in commonly understood terms.
>
>                                 Thanks,
>          
	PLEASE                                       J
	Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
definition?

--Boundary_(ID_d6W9fVuJssR9J7B5yeh6RA)--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 22:39:50 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tilley Device Update
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:32:36 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:05:09 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>The DeLorain should require only 4 or 5 HP.  With 12 60 AH batteries it
>should run for about ~10hr at 60mph giving the car a ~600 mi battery
>range.
[snip]
Using these numbers, and based on only 4 HP, and assuming a constant battery voltage of 14 V, I get 202 miles.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep  9 23:29:27 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "cold electricity." 
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:41:04 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  John Schnurer's message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:28:57 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>	Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
>definition?
Unfortunately not. At least not that I have ever found. Probably because if it exists at all, no one understands what it really is.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 01:16:18 2002
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Robin - Interesting to see this one raise its head again ,

If my memory is Ok ( And some say its far from Ok!) there was some mention
of this in respect of the Bedini Device of years ago ( Whatever happened to
that ?).
It was in connection to "When the unit was working a reduction in
temperature was noted in the wiring", and it was referred to as negative
elec.It appears it would drive some types of load but not others like
convention elec.

Greetings to all our American friends from Ireland and we think of you all
on 9/11
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: "cold electricity."


> In reply to  John Schnurer's message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:28:57 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> > Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
> >definition?
> Unfortunately not. At least not that I have ever found. Probably because
if it exists at all, no one understands what it really is.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
>
> Competition provides the motivation,
> Cooperation provides the means.
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 02:26:17 2002
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Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:23:43 +0400
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Dear John,

I recall somewhere it is reported  that in a specific experiment, experimenter had
a cold feeling when a current passed trough his finger/hand. An other association
with "cold electricity" could be made by again in a specific experiment it is
observed an electric discharge between electrodes in air having slightly different
color than it should be. May these experiments have a connection with theories of
Tom Bearden.

Anyway, searching Google with "cold electicity" gave 1300 hits, some of them are
definetly worth to reading. For eample section of http://www.nuenergy.org/Proceedings2001.htm:

What is "cold electricity"?

There is one last subject that I would like to address before I begin my demonstrations and public tests here today. It is
the interpretation of what is being called "cold electricity." It just frustrates me to no end when I hear theories out there
that have no scientific basis to them. How on Earth can electricity be cold? Electricity is a flow of charge. It is not a
thermal state. Are we talking about a wire that loses thermal energy as a secondary effect due to the passage of
electrical current? If so, this is nothing new nor is it strange. Have you ever heard about electrostatic cooling? A United
States patent was granted to a fellow named Oscar C. Blomgren Sr. If anyone is interested, the U.S. Patent number is
3,872,917. This patent utilizes the principle of electrostatic cooling. It makes use of high-voltage negatively charged
probes that are placed near the hot object, which is grounded. This extremely simple system uses very low power and
is very efficient. This invention could also be used to remove thermal energy from a wire. It works because negative air
ions carry the heat away with them and are dumped into the ground. It should not be too difficult to design a unit that
could chill electrical wires to the point where a frost would appear. What has just been described is a solid state
electrostatic heat pump. There is no mystery here and certainly there is no new science involved. Anyway, I have put in
my two cents worth and I will not ramble on any further. People must believe what they must, onto the best part of my
lecture, the hardware. _BAP



John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >         Can you please point me to any reasonably complete text on what
> >                 cold electricity is?
> >         By this I mean an explanation in commonly understood terms.
> >
> >                                 Thanks,
> >
>         PLEASE                                       J
>         Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
> definition?

Regards,

hamdix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 03:51:36 2002
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Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:50:26 +0400
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Dear John,

This is again from google search:

http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/Bizarre/EVs.htm


CLASSICALLY BOUND  ELECTRONS
EVs, Exotic Chemistry & ‘Cold Electricity’  
C.P. Kouropoulos 


                                          Abstract 

At a range of 10-13 m, the magnetic field of a classical point-like spinning electron reaches 1 GTesla, which can
overcome the electrostatic repulsion of another electron. This permits them to pair into singlet states, dense electronic
stringy loops as well as induce an exotic chemistry and nuclear reactions. The resulting electronic strings may shrink,
convert a fraction of their mass into ionizing radiation, and thereby generate electrical power by the photoelectric
effect. The resulting shrunk state, upon entering an anode, may use the latter’s electronic thermal energy to convert
itself again into free electrons, creating the effect of ‘cold electricity’. A similar process could well be occurring inside
conductors. More realistic, fully relativistic semi-classical evaluations are given in the appendix.


Full text with figures follows.

hamdix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 06:56:40 2002
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Ah, vortex is *not* rejecting messages today. It was yesterday. But I think 
the fall-off in traffic is unrelated. I was hoping that more people would 
read and comment on the papers we are posting on LENR.org.

Anyway, Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

>Tilley's 1981 DeLorean, retrofit with a conventional electric motor and
>controller (purchased, we confirmed, from EV America of Wolfboro, New 
>Hampshire), had to stop its planned multi-hundred mile demonstration after 
>only about 18 miles of high speed driving (moving in the 70-90 mph range, 
>estimated by observers).  Its left rear wheel bearing failed, making the 
>car inoperable for any more laps.

This is frustrating. Perhaps I am missing something . . . but why didn't 
they jack up the car, turn on the engine, and let it run for several hours 
more? The DeLorean is a rear engine, rear wheel drive, but I presume it has 
a standard shift or it can be disengaged from the wheels somehow. They 
could have tested the battery charge after several hours of running in 
neutral. People came from out of town at great expense and inconvenience. A 
valid test could have been performed.


>They have privately promised also a public demonstration of an 
>electric-powered single-engine piloted aircraft, to be flown from Florida 
>to somewhere in New England! Prior to the mechanical failure Saturday, the 
>airplane flight was to have occurred before the end of October.  Douglas 
>Littlefield of Vermont, Tilley's spokesman, told me that they have 
>obtained FAA approval for such a test flight.

If so, the FAA has gone off its rocker. Frankly, I do not believe this 
report. Novel engine and airframe configurations have to be flight tested 
for years over unpopulated areas before they are certified for flights over 
cities into ordinary airports. Even an incremental improvement like the 
Cirrus required years and tens of millions of dollars to certify, and a 
technical problem with one of the prototypes killed a skilled test pilot. 
Home-built kit airplanes do not require certification, but they are not 
equipped with revolutionary new and untested engine types.

Some people might criticize the FAA rules. I live under the second busiest 
airport approach in Georgia. I have seen the wreckage of a fatal crash, and 
neighbors have seen three others, one of them in his driveway. I think that 
allowing an aircraft with revolutionary new engine to fly over a populated 
area would be grossly irresponsible.

Frankly, I think it would be idiotic for anyone to fly such an airplane. 
Why are people risking their lives to prove a point that can be proved far 
more easily at no risk to anyone? No one should fly or drive any vehicle 
with this motor, or operate any equipment powered by it, until thousands of 
production prototype motors have been subjected to millions of hours of 
performance testing in major engineering labs. This is not 1820. We do not 
need people risking their lives to test prototype motors anymore. This is 
real life, not a movie.


>Jan Roos told me this evening that he inspected the vehicle as closely as 
>possible, with the various compartments open, and there was no  evidence 
>of any kind of auxilliary batteries or another concealed engine.

That's good, but I doubt it will convince many people. Tilley could 
convince the world easily by other means, at less expense. It is shame he 
pursues these "public demonstration" methods. Lone inventors often act this 
way. If he continues to rely on these demonstrations I think there is 
little chance he will convince the public and commercialize the vehicle 
(assuming it is real). This method is better than publishing technical 
papers in obscure journals, but still not good enough.

- Jed


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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tilley Device Update
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Yes...  I realized my boo-boo (as usual) too late to fix it. :-)


--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:05:09 -0700:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The DeLorain should require only 4 or 5 HP.  With 12 60 AH batteries
> it
> >should run for about ~10hr at 60mph giving the car a ~600 mi battery
> >range.
> [snip]
> Using these numbers, and based on only 4 HP, and assuming a constant
> battery voltage of 14 V, I get 202 miles.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> 
> Competition provides the motivation,
> Cooperation provides the means.
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! - We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:09:18 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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From: <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>

> http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/Bizarre/EVs.htm

> CLASSICALLY BOUND  ELECTRONS
> EVs, Exotic Chemistry & 'Cold Electricity'   C.P. Kouropoulos

This is a good reference.

I think "cold electricity" is another way of looking at, or describing Ken
Shoulders' amazing work with EVs, aka "charge clusters." Ken was/is twenty years
ahead of the rest of electrical engineering with his remarkable insight and
sophisticated level of experimentation.

Regards,

Jones

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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
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More likely a misunerstanding by the researcher.  There are many cases
for parts and wires to cool in ordianary oporation due to Seeback and
Peltier efficts


--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> In reply to  John Schnurer's message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:28:57 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >	Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
> >definition?
> Unfortunately not. At least not that I have ever found. Probably
> because if it exists at all, no one understands what it really is.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> 
> Competition provides the motivation,
> Cooperation provides the means.
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! - We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 09:39:22 2002
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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:38:46 -0500
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
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>John Schuner wrote;



>  >         Can you please point me to any reasonably complete text on what
>>                  cold electricity is?
>>          By this I mean an explanation in commonly understood terms.
>>
>>                                  Thanks,
>>         
>	PLEASE                                       J
>	Can anyone paraphrase cold electricity in a no word salad
>definition?

No, but I can attempt it in one paragraph.

      In a conversation that Mr. Tilley had with an engineer he 
explains why he reduced the size of the wire which carries current 
from his Black Box to the battery which power the DeLorean automobile 
he modified to run on an electric motor. He is heard saying that the 
smaller wire works better, because it allows less current to go 
through. Any electrical engineer will tell you that in working with 
conventional electrical energy, the system never works better with a 
smaller wire. Clearly, the Tilley Machine is not working with 
conventional electricity. This story reminds me of a conversation 
that I had with the late Otto Schmitt, professor emeritus of physics 
at the University of Minnesota. Lord Raleigh was visiting Nicola 
Tesla's laboratory. After looking over the machinery he commented 
that what he ( Tesla ) was doing was not possible with conventional 
electricity, to which Tesla replied, "I'm not using Hertzian ( 
conventional electricity ) waves." Otto suddenly got interested and 
said, "he's talking about nonorthogonal waves. " Otto then told me 
how as a graduate student he had taken an honors course in general 
relativity were they discussed these waves. In later conversations he 
agreed that he had, "no idea how to generate, control, or even detect 
these waves." For years I have been compiling what I term the mythos 
of free energy machines. It includes the following. electrical 
machines that have a higher out put than input, get cold when they 
run, electrical waves that can pass through a Faraday shield, which 
shields out conventional waves, waves which effect gravity.

BTW, Otto often expressed his belief that it was possible to generate 
the "electrodynamic equivalent of the tsunami wave."

Later Jones Beene posted


This fellow, Chris Arnold, who was on this forum for a while until several
observers asked for clarification or expressed justifiable questions about some
aspects of his results (including the claimed drop in temp) - and he mistook
anything less than immediate adulation to be either derogatory remarks and/or
just a case of somebody trying to steal his idea, and left in a hufff - anyway
he claimed his device was a "cold current" kind of thing...

...in the Joe Newman "sparking commutator" tradition, of course

not that there's anything wrong with that...

unless you're an investor...

Good point Jones, the Arnold reactor involved a spinning magnetic 
field.  I miss Chris, brilliant inventor, too bad he had such a case 
of invertoritus.

Dale Pond of SVPVRIL posted

One of the old Keely stories relates how the room got very cold when he
started one of his engines. Russell relates how "charging" electricity
is actually cold while discharging electricity is hot....

Leon likes what he has seen of Russell's work and just ordered Tim 
Binder's book.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 10 23:58:14 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:56:36 +1000
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In reply to  thomas malloy's message of Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:38:46 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]

>BTW, Otto often expressed his belief that it was possible to generate 
>the "electrodynamic equivalent of the tsunami wave."
[snip
This would be a soliton wave.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 11 10:45:10 2002
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Off Topic: Buzz Aldrin Kicking Ass, taking names...
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:58:14 -0400
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Thought you all could use a chuckle today...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20020910/people_nm/people
_aldrin_dc&e=1

I think this is what Tom Wolfe referred to as "The Right Stuff".
Does that answer your question, Bart?

K.

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (Reuters) -

A man who publicly confronted astronaut
Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin over whether he actually went to the Moon said on
Tuesday that the Apollo 11 hero almost sent him into space with a punch to
the
jaw.

Bart Sibrel, an independent filmmaker from Nashville, Tennessee, said he was
trying to conduct an ambush interview with Aldrin outside a hotel in Beverly
Hills
on Monday when the astronaut punched him and ran away.

"I approached him and asked him again to swear on a Bible that he went to
the
moon, and told him he was a thief for taking money to give an interview for
something he didn't do," Sibrel told Reuters.

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:57:32 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Has ET arrived?
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge lately...

For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial vehicle of =
some kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.

Officials at NASA are hesitant, so far, to call it anything but "space =
trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than an =
asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the whole =
episode hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...

Other possibilities:
1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..
    BUT we would have noticed it going up
2) An observation drone from another civilization
    BUT why would they risk getting so close to us without contact
3) An occupied spacecraft from another civilization, intent on making =
contact
    BUT what are they waiting on?=20
    Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first and ask questions =
later
4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few years...


Check it out at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge lately...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial vehicle =
of some=20
kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Officials at NASA&nbsp;are hesitant, so far,&nbsp;to call it =
anything but=20
"space trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than =
an=20
asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the whole =
episode=20
hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Other possibilities:</DIV>
<DIV>1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT we would have noticed it going up</DIV>
<DIV>2) An observation drone from another civilization</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT why would they risk getting so close to us =
without=20
contact</DIV>
<DIV>3) An occupied&nbsp;spacecraft from another civilization, intent on =
making=20
contact</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT what are they waiting on? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first =
and ask=20
questions later</DIV>
<DIV>4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few =
years...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Check it out at:</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm">http://new=
s.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:57:36 -0700
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The BBC report says the object is in a 50 day orbit -- that's past the =
moon. Nobody on Earth has the capability to loft a missile that far. It, =
or They, are safe.
Mike Carrell
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jones Beene=20
  To: vortex=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:57 AM
  Subject: Has ET arrived?


  Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge lately...

  For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial vehicle of =
some kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.

  Officials at NASA are hesitant, so far, to call it anything but "space =
trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than an =
asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the whole =
episode hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...

  Other possibilities:
  1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..
      BUT we would have noticed it going up
  2) An observation drone from another civilization
      BUT why would they risk getting so close to us without contact
  3) An occupied spacecraft from another civilization, intent on making =
contact
      BUT what are they waiting on?=20
      Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first and ask questions =
later
  4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few years...


  Check it out at:
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm

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</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">The BBC report says the object is in =
a 50 day=20
orbit -- that's past the moon. Nobody on Earth has the capability to =
loft a=20
missile that far. It, or They, are safe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Mike Carrell</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djonesb9 pacbell.net =
href=3D"mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net">Jones Beene</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 11, =
2002 10:57=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Has ET arrived?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge =
lately...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial =
vehicle of=20
  some kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Officials at NASA&nbsp;are hesitant, so far,&nbsp;to call it =
anything but=20
  "space trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than =
an=20
  asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the =
whole=20
  episode hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Other possibilities:</DIV>
  <DIV>1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT we would have noticed it going up</DIV>
  <DIV>2) An observation drone from another civilization</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT why would they risk getting so close to us =
without=20
  contact</DIV>
  <DIV>3) An occupied&nbsp;spacecraft from another civilization, intent =
on=20
  making contact</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT what are they waiting on? </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first =
and ask=20
  questions later</DIV>
  <DIV>4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few=20
years...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Check it out at:</DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm">http://new=
s.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C259A3.90BAD5A0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 11 13:55:36 2002
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From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Increase your penis size (NOT SPAM!)
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May be off topic, but gotta love that New Scientist web site -

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992781

Now if they can only learn how to do that with nerve tissue. 

- Rick Monteverde,
Honolulu Hawaii

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 11 15:30:46 2002
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Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
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Don't we/they have some snoop sats floating around in weird high orbits that have something to do with elint? Probably one of those, not that anyone's going to admit it. I've heard these pop up sometimes when SETI gets false positives that pass initial LEO/GEO/Planetary-Mission filters.

RE 1) below: probably noticed, not gonna say anything.

** I didn't know we DID have a second natural moon. I can't pronounce the name though. Anybody?

** BTW, for a little piece of genuine ET-something, try eBay. You can't be a true nerd unless you have a meteorite, right? The other day I got a very nice cut/polished piece of chondrite with metals and stuff showing for about $10. Real carbonaceous one cost lots more, usually. For more on interesting stuff in meteorites, see:

http://www.panspermia.org/index.htm

- Rick Monteverde,
Honolulu Hawaii


>Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge lately...
> 
>For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial vehicle of some kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.
> 
>Officials at NASA are hesitant, so far, to call it anything but "space trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than an asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the whole episode hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...
> 
>Other possibilities:
>1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..
>    BUT we would have noticed it going up
>2) An observation drone from another civilization
>    BUT why would they risk getting so close to us without contact
>3) An occupied spacecraft from another civilization, intent on making contact
>    BUT what are they waiting on?
>    Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first and ask questions later
>4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few years...
> 
> 
>Check it out at:
><http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 12 00:04:52 2002
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References: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020909202751.12678D-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
 <a05111b14b9a34d0fdea9 [64.61.199.230]>
 <08qtnu4mmn5h3rphums08ei9t6bcf9ovi9 4ax.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:03:06 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
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>Robin van Spaandonk posted;
>[snip
>This would be a soliton wave.
>

So Robin;

Do you know of a way to generate the electrodynamic equivalent of the 
soliton wave? Now that I think of it, I saw a webpage in which the 
webmaster had photographed his swimming pool in sunlight. There were 
bright spots in it. This concentration of light was the result of 
solitons.

Leon and I want to thank all of you who contributed to this thread. I 
am reading USP# 3,872,917 When I first looked over the drawings, I 
was reminded of Ken Sholder's patents. However I have yet to see 
anything about the electrical energy or clusters of electrons doing 
the cooling, it seems to me that the electrical flow contributes to 
the more efficient transfer of heat.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 12 06:56:48 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:55:37 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Brian Clarke dead
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Brian Clarke died recently. He coauthored papers by McKubre. He was 
intemperate and he also wrote papers and letters criticizing McKubre.

- Jed

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[A message passed from Dieter Britz]

With deepest and sincere regrets, I have to inform you that Brian Clarke, 
Professor Emeritus of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University, died of a 
heart attack on Tuesday, September 3rd while visiting his son in California.

A memorial service will be arranged at a later date. For further communique 
you may contact Mara Esposto, Administrative Coordinator, at 
esposto mcmaster.ca

Kenrick Chin
Research Technician
Physics & Astronomy
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 12 07:13:11 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:11:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Nerd humor.

Hmm...  I was thinking.  Its Abraham's two angels looking for TEN
RIGHTEOUS MEN!...
              ...
                                    .........still
                      ...........

...
                                           BzzFap-zeeee!
                                               thud
                                           tick tick tick
                                          K A A mfn B O O M

                                             game over

Anyway.  If its ET then he is trying to decide exactly which pack of
savage barbarians to contact.  

You know.  


The peaceful ones.


              ...

                     and              .....   Still looking..




 Hmm  You can't seem to find the thing any more?




They must have gave up


Really though if its a rock then it belongs to us.  We should send up a
robot probe to analyze it.  Maybe take a core sample  (Then ET will take
notice) You know shove a hollow tube through it and pull the insides out.
Then incinerate the contents of the tube to look for life.  Isn't that
the way its done? 

Gee if its the right size and made of -->The Right Stuff<-- we might
hollow it out and make it into a craft of our own.

OR maybe it is ET extending a welcoming hand.  Sort of like Sagan's
"Contact".  Ya know...  Come take a ride with us...

Or   Its the hand of God 'fixin ta' slap us all silly...

Really I must go..  Work is piling up on my bench. I must spend the day
soldering under a microscope.  (actually its a tiny pile).    


--- Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com> wrote:
> Don't we/they have some snoop sats floating around in weird high orbits
> that have something to do with elint? Probably one of those, not that
> anyone's going to admit it. I've heard these pop up sometimes when SETI
> gets false positives that pass initial LEO/GEO/Planetary-Mission
> filters.
> 
> RE 1) below: probably noticed, not gonna say anything.
> 
> ** I didn't know we DID have a second natural moon. I can't pronounce
> the name though. Anybody?
> 
> ** BTW, for a little piece of genuine ET-something, try eBay. You can't
> be a true nerd unless you have a meteorite, right? The other day I got
> a very nice cut/polished piece of chondrite with metals and stuff
> showing for about $10. Real carbonaceous one cost lots more, usually.
> For more on interesting stuff in meteorites, see:
> 
> http://www.panspermia.org/index.htm
> 
> - Rick Monteverde,
> Honolulu Hawaii
> 
> 
> >Maybe this is what's got Buzz a little bit on edge lately...
> > 
> >For the past several months, at least, an extra-terrestrial vehicle of
> some kind has been mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit.
> > 
> >Officials at NASA are hesitant, so far, to call it anything but "space
> trash" since it appears to be a manufactured object rather than an
> asteroid...and they have been successful, till now, in keeping the
> whole episode hushed up, but "space trash"....riiiiight...
> > 
> >Other possibilities:
> >1) A secret Russian (Chinese, etc) observation platform..
> >    BUT we would have noticed it going up
> >2) An observation drone from another civilization
> >    BUT why would they risk getting so close to us without contact
> >3) An occupied spacecraft from another civilization, intent on making
> contact
> >    BUT what are they waiting on?
> >    Don't they realize that Bush might nuke first and ask questions
> later
> >4)The "Heaven's Gate" crew may have jumped the gun by a few years...
> > 
> > 
> >Check it out at:
>
><http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm
> 
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 12 13:01:59 2002
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Uploaded five "Accountability" papers
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I uploaded five papers from "Accountability in Research," 2000. 8. Three 
more to go. Direct links to the first five are here:

http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/Bockris01.pdf
http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/Chubb01.pdf
http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/Miley01.pdf
http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/Nagel01.pdf
http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/Shamoo01.pdf

I created a web page for the upcoming ICCF-10 conference. It does not have 
a home yet. We reserved the name "ICCF10.org" but it is not connected to 
the web page yet. For now, you can see it here:

http://members.directvinternet.com/jedrothwell/ICCFMain.htm

Comments & suggestions are welcome. Let me know if you think this 
announcement lacks something that a respectable physics conference 
announcement aught to have. Also let me know if the heading or photograph 
go off your page and cannot be seen.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 12 14:06:14 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "cold electricity."
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:03:57 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <f802ouk4giejqood642n0pndk7crikopsg 4ax.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020909202751.12678D-100000 college.antioch-college.edu> <a05111b14b9a34d0fdea9@[64.61.199.230]> <08qtnu4mmn5h3rphums08ei9t6bcf9ovi9@4ax.com> <a05111b01b9a529015672@[209.23.136.36]>
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In reply to  thomas malloy's message of Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:03:06 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]

>>Robin van Spaandonk posted;
>>[snip
>>This would be a soliton wave.
>>
>
>So Robin;
>
>Do you know of a way to generate the electrodynamic equivalent of the 
>soliton wave?
[snip]
Sorry, I only had two cents, now I'm broke. ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 04:48:17 2002
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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Gravity Repels Negative Charges? Possible Antigravity?
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In going over the String Circle particle model so that it would square with David
Bergman's Rotating Circle model,

www.commonsensescience.org

I find the following:

Proton Radius R = kq^2/E = 1.538e-18 meters

Energy E = mc^2 = 1/2 CV^2 = 1/2 LI^2 = 1.5e-10 joule

Charge q = CV = +1.602e-19 coulombs

Displacement Current I = C *dV/dt = 5e6 amperes

Capacitance C = 2(pi)R*eo = 8.55e-29 farads

Inductance L = 2(pi)R*uo =  1.215e-23 henry

Impedance Z = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms

Frequency f = (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.1e25 Hertz

Period t = (LC)^1/2 = 3.22e-26 seconds

Time Dilation and Hypocharge:

Since General Relativity stipulates that angular acceleration
results in the slowing down of the "internal clock" of the circling energy in the
particle, there appears to be a constant positive "hypocharge" of +1.43e-37 coulombs
in addition to the frame invariant charge q of  +1.602e-19 coulombs.

The Time Dilation Dt  is found to be the square root of the ratio of the electrostatic
force Fes to the gravitational force Fg:

Dt = (Fes/Fg)^1/2 = (kq^2/G*m^2) = 1.12e18

which results in the Hypocharge q' = Dt*q = +1.43e-37 coulombs.

Relativistic Electrodynamics dictates that ALL Like
Charges attract (or lose repulsion) when their velocity is near the speed of light c.

Further, since the gravitational force varies as 1/r^2 the force must be from the
radial field of a point charge q'.

Thus the attractive gravitational force between two protons at one meter separation:

G*m^2/r^2 = kq'2/r^2 = 1.8e-64 newtons

Logically a negative charge -q will be repelled by the gravity field (which appears to
be borne out by the Biefield-Brown experiments) and by the "possibility" that negative
electrons isolated in space are repelled by gravitational fields, as indicated by the
net positive charge on the ionosphere?

Antigravity Effect?

http://www.rognerud.com/physics/html/t_brown.html

Fred

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Hello,

I updated the Gravity Society web site with recent developments and releases
including a paper of E. Podkletnov and G. Modanese appearing today
at LANL database.

http://www.gravity-society.org

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 07:22:30 2002
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Bizarre!!!  Off topic  "Coinkidink"
To: "Vortex-L Bill Beaty's list" <vortex-l eskimo.com>,
        freenrg <freenrg-l eskimo.com>
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look at the September 11 numbers for the New York Lotery

http://www.nylottery.org/winner/numbersres.php
 



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 07:57:52 2002
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Charles Ford wrote:

>look at the September 11 numbers for the New York Lotery
>
>http://www.nylottery.org/winner/numbersres.php
> 
>

And the closing price for Chicago S&P Futures the same day:

 >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=520&u=/ap/20020911/ap_wo_en_bu/us_911_futures_1&printer=1<


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 09:42:23 2002
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Hi Hamdi.

Thanks for the update. The link provided for the paper seems
difficult to reach from here, perhaps this is a mirror site
outside the US? Or it's down? Anyway, I had better luck with
this link

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051

for the paper.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr [mailto:hamdix@verisoft.com.tr]
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:43 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Gravity Society web site updated


Hello,

I updated the Gravity Society web site with recent developments and releases
including a paper of E. Podkletnov and G. Modanese appearing today
at LANL database.

http://www.gravity-society.org

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 10:08:54 2002
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Energy, New Energy, Free Energy
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	Dear People,

	General comments about: 

	A)	"Free Energy"
	B)	"New Age Energy Research" 
	C)	"New Age Word Salad Quack Gadgeteers"
	D)	"New Energy Research Guessers"
	E)	"Internet Energy Education"
	F)	"Second Law of Thermodynamics"
	G)	"Mathematics, Predictions, Ideal Non Real and QM Systems"
	H)	"Physical Experimental Results"
	I)	"Real World Systems, Non Closed Systems"
	J)	"Energy From Unexpected Sources"
	
	NOTES on A through J

	1]	These are not all the same.  Some texts put some of these
together and this further confuses matters.  EACH and every example of
these must be Carefully and Separately addressed.

The term (A) is not usually defined and has no common definition. 

	2]	Items (B) through (G) inclusive, if considered at all must
be individually defined and addressed.
	In general mathematical proofs should be used only as possible
guides.  Mathematics, Theory, including but not limited to Quantum
Theory, Ideal Examples, Perfect Examples, Sealed Systems are not equal to
reality nor are they Laws.  

	Examples: 

		i]	There is much discussion of Second Law of Thermodynamics
and broad sweeping generalizations are often made.  It is not common for
systems under discussion to be specifically defined.
	The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies to certain narrow and
specifically defined systems.

		ii]	Quantum Theory is a Theory, a Mathematical
construct which is sometimes offered, to greater or lesser degrees as
Physical Law, proof and basis for further movement toward claims asserting
proofs.  The bottom line is every part of energy research as described in
Internet Posts and on WWW sites is frequently cloudy.  Often definition is
lacking.


	3] Item (H) through (I) inclusive may yield external power or
prime movers and do not per se violate any laws.  However, Each Example
must, at the Very Least be defined and well explained AND be backed up by
Experimental Physics in more than one example and a survey of results and
reproducibility to approach being considered valid.  All else are
variations of guesses or suppositions or less than this.

	If one approaches matters in this general way there is probably
going to be a lot less friction and real world methods and system may be
allowed to surface as beginnings of useful science.

	Comment which makes these topics more clear is welcome, and
solicited, please.


						JH
_____________________________________________


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 13:12:27 2002
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:09:50 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Repels Negative Charges? Possible Antigravity?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Fred,

> Logically a negative charge -q will be repelled by the gravity field (which
appears to
> be borne out by the Biefield-Brown experiments)

BUT in the B-B effect, it is the positive charge that appears to have the
anti-gravity effect...


> by the "possibility" that negative electrons isolated in space are repelled by
gravitational fields,
> as indicated by the net positive charge on the ionosphere?

or else, free electrons from higher up are preferentially attracted by gravity
to earth and accumulate there, giving the net positive charge on the ionosphere
;-}

Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 15:30:56 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: EVs
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:29:24 +1000
Organization: Improving
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Hi,

If EVs are real, then small EVs could catalyze fusion much as negative muons do, but with the advantage that they have a much longer half life, unless destroyed by the nuclear energy, in which case a roughly even distribution of the nuclear energy across many electrons would result in each only carrying insufficient energy to be detected as ionising radiation. IOW the signature of CF ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 13 17:37:03 2002
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From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

> If EVs are real, then small EVs could catalyze fusion much as negative muons
do

I believe that KS has indicated someting like this this before, but he feels
that the near-term prospects for using EVs alone makes more sense. Others have
had a similar idea, see:

http://www.ideosphere.com/fx-bin/Claim?claim=EVcfd

Also, other observers have noticed the functional similarity between EVs, BECs,
and Ball lightning - for possible use as a more stable negatively charged
catalyst for fusion

http://home.planet.nl/~icblsec/isbl99/ab_vlasov.html

JB


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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Sep 13, 2002
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:33:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 13 Sep 02   Washington, DC

1. PERPETUAL MOTION: FAULTY WHEEL BEARING SPOILS DEMONSTRATION. 
Yes, it's another one.  Inventor Carl Tilley rented the Nashville
SuperSpeedway on Saturday to demonstrate his amazing electric
generator.  He took a 1981 DeLorean and replaced the engine with
a conventional electric motor.  The motor is connected to twelve
ordinary 12-volt batteries.  Here's the good part: the motor not
only runs the DeLorean, it also runs a generator that charges the
batteries, so the car just keeps going.  Can it do that?  Well,
not without a good generator.  As Tilley explains, "it utilizes
the generation of static electricity rather than cutting magnetic
fields which has been common practice to date."  Further details
are not available.  Eric Krieg, the relentless foe of perpetual
motion quacks at PHACT, the Philadelphia Association for Critical
Thinking, predicted that the DeLorean would suffer mechanical
failure after 25 miles or so.  Actually, Tilley stopped the
demonstration at 52 miles, explaining that a wheel bearing had
failed.  That happens when you lubricate bearings with snake oil.

2. TERRORISM: ABC SMUGGLES IN A MOCK NUCLEAR WEAPON - SORT OF. 
While the US is spending billions on missile defense, ABC News
shipped a simulated nuclear weapon from Istanbul to New York. 
The mock bomb contained 15 pounds of depleted uranium.  On the
Sept. 11 ABC Good Morning America program, Physicist Tom Cochran
of the Natural Resources Defense Council called it, "A perfect
mock-up. It replicates everything but the capability to explode." 
Well, not quite.  The U-238 in depleted uranium is far less
radioactive than the U-235 in weapons grade uranium, and thus is
much harder to detect.  Depleted uranium wouldn't even make a
good dirty bomb.  Nevertheless, the ABC stunt demonstrates that a
perfect missile defense would only ensure that anyone planning a
nuclear attack would use a simpler delivery system. 

3. RADIATION PROTECTION: PROTECT THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS FIRST. 
Levi Strauss is introducing a new line of "Dockers" with pockets
that protect your testicles from the radiation produced by a cell
phone in the pocket.  If you carry your cell phone in a shielded
pocket, however, expect a sharp reduction in incoming calls.  For
the latest in protection devices, you have only to look in the
seat pocket on an airliner.  There with the airsickness bag, is a
catalog of really cool stuff marketed by the airline.  The latest
is a line of expensive wrist watches that contain Teslar Chips. 
The ad explains that the Teslar Chip will protect you from
harmful EMF and relieve stress.  Should you have any doubt, there
are Kirlian photographs showing increased energy around a finger,
induced by the Teslar chip.  Glen Rein, PhD. confirmed that the
Teslar Chip increased immune system components 76%. Dr. Scott
Morley, D.Sc.,PhD., MD showed it eliminated ambient EMF from his
patients.  I'm reaching for the airsickness bag now.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's, and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 14 13:06:03 2002
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Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
To: <jlnlabs yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <orchestra ttnet.net.tr>, "hamdi ucar" <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>,
        <kyle_mcallister yahoo.com>,
        "John Schnurer" <herman antioch-college.edu>, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>,
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Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure gases...
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:00:41 -0400
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Hi Rick,

2 MV is mentioned more than once so it's probably not a typo.
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051

I'll tell you what I want to see is pictures. We chastised Roschin/Godin for
no pix of their apparatus and I think we should hold Podkletnov et al to the
same standard. Look what JL Naudin has done with pix. Videos even. He's
practically created a small industry of lifters because a pix is worth 1000
words and a video worth 10 times that again.  I'd love to see the gravity
impulse generator in action with a video that can be seen on the Internet as
I'm sure would everybody else! Seeing is believing. Hamdi & John seem to
have some access to the Gravity.org web site so maybe we should politely
request them to put the request for a video to Eugene Podkletnov and
Giovanni Modanese.. (?)

Colin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
To: <jlnlabs yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure
gases...


> I wonder if it really means 2 million volts or if that's a typo.
>
> - Rick Monteverde,
> Honolulu Hawaii
>
>
> >Dear All,
> >
> >You will find a very interesting paper, see below :
> >
> ><A HREF="http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051> ><< Physics, abstract -
physics/0209051
> >From: Giovanni Modanese
> >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:55:34 GMT
> >Investigation of high voltage discharges in low pressure gases through
large
> >ceramic superconducting electrodes
> >
> >Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
> >Comments: PDF, 18 pages, 5 figures
> >Subj-class: General Physics
> >> A device has been built and tested, in which a ceramic superconducting
> >> cathode and a copper anode cause electrical discharges in low pressure
> >> gases, at temperatures between 50 and 70 K. The electrodes are
connected to
> > > a capacitors array charged up to 2000 kV; peak currents are of the
order of
> > > 10^4 A.
> <snip>



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 14 16:03:29 2002
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 gases...
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Dear Colin and all,

I'd love to have more information about the Impulse Gravity Generator (IGG) but currently no more information available from Podkletnov site. See my earlier post on this subject "Re: Antigravity researchers should publish".

I think the phenomenon behind the IGG is so radical just like the Godin's machine, it require serious scientific approach. That is popularizing the IGG can only adds speculations but not the required interest.

While reading the Recent article "EVALUATION OF AN IMPULSE GRAVITY GENERATOR BASED BEAMED PROPULSION CONCEPT" I thought even the Newton's second Law (F=m.a) may not be applicable on gravity impulse. That is Newton's gravity model can not be adapted here (F = G.m1.m2/r^2). Maybe General Relativity may help where is no accelerating force between bodies but space curvature. In GR, bodies simply follow the geodesic (the spacetime curvature) and appears to accelerate when observed by a reference which not follows this curvature. Force arise when bodies are prevented to follow to curvature, the free fall.
when two bodies (m1,m2) are gravitating, each one follows the curvature of the other. 
m1 accelerate proportional to m2 mass and vice versa. All I can do here is try to apply GR principles in simple Newton's gravity.

Accelerations a1 and a2 of gravitating masses m1 and m2 can be written as

a1 = k.m2   (1)
a2 = k.m1

where k is a constant determined gravity constant and distance between gravitating bodies. Applying F = m.a formula to find equivalent forces for obtaining these accelerations

F1 = a1.m1 = k.m2.m1   (2)
F2 = a2.m2 = k.m1.m2

therefore F1 = F2 satisfying Newton's third law.

But if a curvature is created artificially, Eq.1 is not applicable therefore there would be no equality between forces F1 and F2. Explicitly, If IGG create a spacetime curvature,
objects lying in the gravity impulse beam are accelerated but the IGG itself may not be affected by this situation therefore it will not accelerate at all.

When IGG and masses subjected to its beam is considered and mechanically interacting system, a violation of Newton's third law occurs because action-reaction inequality.

Actually this violation is very handy for a space propulsion system, where and spacecraft can accelerate itself just like somebody trying to raise oneself on air by pulling his boots up. This method instead works here because boots will not to pull one's hands down with an equal and opposite force. An IGG mounted at back (bottom) of spacecraft will accelerate by "pushing" part of its body forward.

If IGG does not obeys Newton's laws, energy gained by accelerating bodies may not be directly related to energy consumed by IGG, because there would be no classical mechanism to provide energy exchange, and may GR help to understand it.

Actually, I have only an introductionary understanding of GR and no mathematical support so all I wrote here is for show theoretical support for IGG is vital.

Colin Quinney wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> 2 MV is mentioned more than once so it's probably not a typo.
> http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051
> 
> I'll tell you what I want to see is pictures. We chastised Roschin/Godin for
> no pix of their apparatus and I think we should hold Podkletnov et al to the
> same standard. Look what JL Naudin has done with pix. Videos even. He's
> practically created a small industry of lifters because a pix is worth 1000
> words and a video worth 10 times that again.  I'd love to see the gravity
> impulse generator in action with a video that can be seen on the Internet as
> I'm sure would everybody else! Seeing is believing. Hamdi & John seem to
> have some access to the Gravity.org web site so maybe we should politely
> request them to put the request for a video to Eugene Podkletnov and
> Giovanni Modanese.. (?)
> 
> Colin
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
> To: <jlnlabs yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure
> gases...
> 
> > I wonder if it really means 2 million volts or if that's a typo.
> >
> > - Rick Monteverde,
> > Honolulu Hawaii
> >
> >
> > >Dear All,
> > >
> > >You will find a very interesting paper, see below :
> > >
> > ><A HREF="http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051> ><< Physics, abstract -
> physics/0209051
> > >From: Giovanni Modanese
> > >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:55:34 GMT
> > >Investigation of high voltage discharges in low pressure gases through
> large
> > >ceramic superconducting electrodes
> > >
> > >Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
> > >Comments: PDF, 18 pages, 5 figures
> > >Subj-class: General Physics
> > >> A device has been built and tested, in which a ceramic superconducting
> > >> cathode and a copper anode cause electrical discharges in low pressure
> > >> gases, at temperatures between 50 and 70 K. The electrodes are
> connected to
> > > > a capacitors array charged up to 2000 kV; peak currents are of the
> order of
> > > > 10^4 A.
> > <snip>
> 
> ---

Regards,

hamdi ucar

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In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:34:12 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]

Thanks, I would never have found either of these references!

>From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
>
>> If EVs are real, then small EVs could catalyze fusion much as negative muons
>do
>
>I believe that KS has indicated someting like this this before, but he feels
>that the near-term prospects for using EVs alone makes more sense. Others have
>had a similar idea, see:
>
>http://www.ideosphere.com/fx-bin/Claim?claim=EVcfd
>
>Also, other observers have noticed the functional similarity between EVs, BECs,
>and Ball lightning - for possible use as a more stable negatively charged
>catalyst for fusion
>
>http://home.planet.nl/~icblsec/isbl99/ab_vlasov.html
>
>JB
>

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

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>Iraq: World's First Scalar War?
>
>Part 1, by Bill Morgan
>
>Source material: Scientist Tom Bearden, Cheniere.Org
>
>Scalar Potential Interferometers
>"Tesla Howitzers"
>
>With the Bush people rushing us toward war it is important for everyone
>to realize the true and rather frightening possibility that this war
>will involve the use of scalar electromagnetic weapons, by any of a
>number of possessors of such weapons. They are called "Longitudinal Wave
>Interferometers," or "Tesla howitzers", and use longitudinal (LW)
>electromagnetic (EM) waves to accomplish true action-at-a-distance.
>These are the weapons Khrushchev spoke of 40 years ago, when he
>declared:
>
>"We have a new weapon, just within the portfolio of our scientists, so
>to speak, which is so powerful that, if unrestrainedly used, it could
>wipe out all life on earth. It is a fantastic weapon."  Khrushchev, to
>the Presidium, Jan. 1960
>
>These are also the weapons referred to in 1997 by Defense Secretary
>William Cohen, when he said:
>
>"Others [terrorists] are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism
>whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes
>remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves... So there are plenty
>of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they
>can wreak terror upon other nations...It's real, and that's the reason
>why we have to intensify our [counter terrorism] efforts." - Defense
>Secretary William Cohen, 1997
>
>One of the leading experts in the new science of scalar
>electromagnetics is scientist Thomas E. Bearden, and he has published
>many papers at his website Cheniere.Org. In a letter to a writer named
>"Russell" (Correspondence section) Bearden says,
>
>"In short, Russell, the Secretary of Defense of the United States
>confirmed that there are indeed novel kinds of EM weapons, right now and
>have been for some time, which have been and are being used to (1)
>initiate earthquakes, (2) engineer the weather and climate, and (3)
>initiate the eruption of volcanoes. We wrote about those exact uses of
>the weaponry decades ago. Several nations now have such weapons. Three
>of them (two on one side and the other on a hostile side) are even
>firing practice shots into Western Australia, as a convenient test
>range."
>
>http://www.earthchangestv.com/ufo/0209gandor.htm
>
>At Cheniere.org one can find Bearden's 1990 paper Historical Background
>of Scalar EM Weapons and see that certain possessors of these new
>superweapons have been developing them for several decades now. He
>traces the clandestine development through the sightings of anomalous
>phenomena all around the globe, by the statements Soviet leaders have
>made, and by the development of a new electromagnetic theory which
>restores certain "lost equations" which had been thrown out long ago in
>an attempt to "simplify things." Apparently the Russians were the first
>to restore the lost equations which uncover the domain of scalar
>electromagnetics.
>
>The new Scalar Electromagnetic weapons utilize a new type of
>electromagnetic waves called "longitudinal waves" or "scalar waves."
>They are called by other names, as Bearden points out:
>
>"We now visualize the formation of waves of pure stress in the
>spacetime medium (in the vacuum). These we call scalar EM waves, Tesla
>waves, electrogravitational waves, longitudinal EM waves, waves of pure
>potential, electrostatic/magnetostatic waves, and zero-vector EM waves.
>All these terms are synonymous. Each sheds its own particular light upon
>the nature of these waves or of their original discoverer, Nikola
>Tesla." Tom Bearden
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s23.htm
>
>So there are a number of names for these newly discovered waves.
>
>The big Tesla howitzers are aimed at their targets by using a worldwide
>electromagnetic pattern called the "Woodpecker Grid," begun by the
>Russians in 1976. You can even "hear" the Woodpecker Grid at Bearden's
>website.
>
>Several times during the Cold War the Russians tried to get an
>agreement on limiting the use of these weapons, which Brezhnev said were
>"more terrible than anything the world has known." And at that time,
>Bearden points out, nobody in the West even knew what they were talking
>about.
>
>The "Fer de Lance" Briefing
>
>
>In  his briefing "Fer de Lance" Slides 66-71. Bearden describes what it
>would be like to operate one of these longitudinal wave interferometers
>and aim it at place on earth using the Woodpecker Grid. By placing a
>"marker beacon" at that target location (the glowing orbs of plasma that
>are being sighted all around the world) the system can "read" the
>location of the target area and obtain pin-point targeting. The "Fer de
>Lance" briefing is a must read for anyone wanting to know what is really
>going on in our world today. It is a set of graphics slides with
>Bearden's explanations.
>Instantaneous effect
>
>It is hard to imagine, but a strike with longitudinal wave weapon is
>instantaneous as the scalar waves do not go through our "3-space" world,
>but around it. As Bearden puts it:
>
>"... it is possible to focus the potential for the effects of a weapon
>through spacetime itself, in a manner so that mass and energy do not
>"travel through space" from the transmitter to the target at all.
>Instead, ripples and patterns in the fabric of spacetime itself are
>manipulated to meet and interfere in and at the local spacetime of some
>distant target. There interference of these ripple patterns creates the
>desired energetic effect (hence the term energetics) directly in and
>through the target itself, emerging from the very spacetime (vacuum) in
>which the target is imbedded at its distant location." Bearden
>Fer-de-Lance
>
>
>What Can These New Superweapons Do?
>
>1. Exothermic mode
>In what is called an "exothermic mode" the howitzers can cause a blast
>of heat at the interference zone, an explosion of near-nuclear
>proportions. It could topple buildings and cause other destruction. Or
>it could be set wide and heat the atmosphere in that region. Or it could
>be set to simply destroy all electronics in that interference (target)
>zone, or to destroy the hubs of the electric power grids of a very wide
>area. Although it seems unbelievable, the actual energy of the blast is
>not traveling through space to hit the target, but actually being made
>to emerge from the local vacuum in the interference (target) zone.
>
>Using the exothermic mode it is possible to make any airplane drop from
>the sky, anywhere. It is possible to destroy any missile, in its flight
>path or in its silo. Bearden sites many instances of downed planes he
>believes were tests of the scalar weapons. (Gandor, Newfoundland)
>
>"The Woodpecker grid/howitzer weapon system can be placed over the
>ocean and used against cruise missiles, naval surface-to-air and
>surface-to-surface missiles, submarine-launched ballistic and cruise
>missiles, etc. Placed over a carrier task force, it can also take care
>of the aircraft launched by the carrier as fast as they are launched. It
>can also handily take care of the missiles launched by guided-missile
>cruisers of the accompanying task force."
>
>(Bearden http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s65.htm )
>
>Here is a slide which shows the exothermic mode of action.
>
>2. Endothermic mode
>In a second howitzer mode called the "endothermic" mode, the howitzer
>sucks energy out of the target area, essentially creating a blast of
>cold at the distant target. It is even capable of freezing parts of the
>ocean. Bearden gives a number of cases where these "cold explosions"
>have been witnessed, mostly by airline pilots. April 9, 1984: 1  2  3 )
>A huge mushroom cloud of mostly water is seen rising miles into the sky
>from out of the ocean, an awesome sight.
>
>In the endothermic mode the sucked-out energy must go somewhere, so it
>is vented out at some other chosen spot on the earth. These endothermic
>plumes have been photographed by satellite.
>
>Bearden envisions the use of cold explosions in a scalar war:
>
>"Cold explosions can be used to freeze tanks, personnel, and equipment.
>The equipment and tanks thaw out. The personnel thaw out too, but they
>are dead when they do." Bearden, Fer-de-Lance
>
>Starting with this slide from Fer de Lance you can see a number of
>sightings of giant mushroom clouds of water vapor which Bearden believes
>were created by the Russians testing the howitzers in endothermic ("cold
>explosion") mode. (Keep clicking "Next Slide").
>
>In another slide the endothermic mode of operation is shown.
>
>3. "Mindsnapper" mode
>In a third and very terrifying mode the longitudinal wave patterns can
>be adjusted to affect the human mind. Bearden has dubbed this mode the
>"Mind-snapper" mode. Use of scalar waves in this mode is also called
>"psychoenergetics" or "psychotronics." At low power the mind-snapper
>causes everyone in the interference zone to fall unconscious. At high
>power the mind-body connection is "snapped" and instant death occurs.
>Bearden describes the manner of death:
>
>"Those hit by the scalar EM weapon, however, have a most peculiar death
>mode.
>
>"Death comes-instantly and totally. There is no convulsion, no
>response. The entire nervous system is destroyed instantly. Every living
>cell in the body is killed instantly, including all bacteria, germs,
>etc.
>
>"A body hit with this thing falls like a limp rag and lies where it
>falls. It doesn't decay in even 30-45 days. In a macabre fashion, it's
>been reduced to something like food irradiated with nuclear radiation;
>everything is killed, so the material is preserved for an extended
>period before any decay can set in."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s81.htm
>
>In psychoenergetics mode the weapons can also induce a kind of
>hypnogogic trance in the minds of anyone in the target zone. It this
>involuntary trance state one's mind would be completely open to
>suggestions and orders. Bearden believes that this is what happened in
>the case of one Captain Button who inexplicably flew his A-10 Warthog
>airplane into a mountain was a test of the scalar weapons, taking over a
>man's mind and controlling him from a distance.
>
>"Remember Captain Button, flying his A-10 Warthog toward the range,
>suddenly peeled away from his companions and flew off cross country for
>over an hour? He ignored all radio messages, circled at one point
>(probably dropped his ordnance there), then flew until he crashed into
>the side of a mountain and was killed.
>
>"That was a deliberate test in the mid-U.S. to demonstrate that a human
>could be controlled for one hour, while doing a technical set of tasks
>(flying an airplane), in a hypnogogic state, successfully.  The test was
>a total success."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/misc/time.htm
>
>4. Earthquake/Weather mode
>
>As Secretary of Defense William Cohen pointed out, these same
>longitudinal wave interferometers can be used to create earthquakes in
>the distant target zone, as well as tornados and other storms, and the
>precipitation of volcanic eruptions. Weather can be manipulated by using
>the exothermic mode to heat the atmosphere in one place, and using
>endothermic mode to cool the atmosphere in another place. Even the jet
>stream can be pulled this way and that by these actions.
>
>Anyone one who keeps watch of the weather radar date from an
>unretouched source like weatherTAP will have seen many anomolies which
>MAY indicate hits by the howitzers. According to Bearden the Russians
>(KGB) have been manipulating weather over North America for decades.
>Cheniere.Org has a number of pictures of such radar anomolies, as well
>as some unusual cloud formations which, Bearden says, MAY be showing the
>effects of the scalar wave patterns traveling the channels of the
>Woodpecker Grid. Keep your eyes on the skies.
>
>5. Death Ray
>
>Nikola Tesla had envisioned a "Death Ray," and now it is a reality.
>
>"Those hit by the scalar EM weapon, however, have a most peculiar
>deathmode.
>
>"Death comes - instantly and totally. There is no convulsion, no
>response. The entire nervous system is destroyed instantly. Every living
>cell in the body is killed instantly, including all bacteria, germs,
>etc.
>
>"A body hit with this thing falls like a limp rag and lies where it
>falls. It doesn't decay in even 30-45 days. In a macabre fashion, it's
>been reduced to something like food irradiated with nuclear radiation;
>everything is killed, so the material is preserved for an extended
>period before any decay can set in."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s81.htm
>
>"Ordinary" Warfare Obsolete
>
>Warfare has been changed forever by the development of these scalar
>energy longitudinal wave howitzers. Remember, the power for these
>weapons comes from the time domain, longitudinal EM waves in the vacuum
>of empty space, and the power is tremendous and mind-boggling. Being
>able to blast away at any target from a distant control booth is
>something that has never  happened before. This is incredible power to
>be in control of and it divides the history of weaponry into "before"
>and "after." And the destructive power of these weapons is delivered
>instantaneously to the target from the local vacuum at the place of the
>target.
>
>Bearden describes how the old-style machinery of war has been made
>obsolete. Planes can be dropped to the ground, tanks are obsolete.
>Bearden says of the whole "Star Wars" defense system (SDI) : "It's
>obsolete to Soviet scalar EM weapons that are already deployed and
>operationally tested in place!"
>
>
>"Interference phenomena are key. One can get action at a distance --
>even over hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
>
>"One can engineer gravitational and inertial effects.
>
>"One can engineer the nucleus, including transmute it, easily and
>cheaply. One could clean up all the nuclear wastes. Electromagnetic
>energy can be produced at a distant target, or extracted from a distant
>target. This is not energy transmission through space in the form of EM
>force fields.  Instead, it is transmission through spacetime in the form
>of electrogravitational potentials. Conventional EM shielding is
>ineffective against scalar EM."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s104.htm
>
>The fact that these weapons can transmute atoms means they can have a
>metal softening effect, leaving one to wonder if it were a clandestine
>use of a scalar interfermeter which brought down the Twin Towers. We may
>never know, since THAT evidence was so quickly destroyed without study.
>
>Tesla Domes
>
>The Tesla howitzers can be used in a nearly impregnable defensive mode
>whereby they throw up a dome (Tesla Dome) or a sphere (Tesla Globe) of
>highly powerful electromagnetic energy, enough to "dud" or destroy
>missiles which try to penetrate them. Once again, this energy is not
>going through space from the howitzer, but being made to emerge from the
>local vacuum at the location of the shell.  KGB tests of these domes
>have been witnessed by airline pilots around the world. Bearden gives
>many examples of the Tesla domes being sighted around the world in his
>briefing paper "Fer-de-Lance." (Russian dome test, another globe
>incident, yet another globe test). These giant electromagnetic domes can
>be hundreds of miles across, or narrowed down more to total
>impermeability.
>
>By using nested domes one can protect the domed area even against
>nuclear radiation itself. Tesla globes can be used to hit airborne
>targets by simply placing a globe of any chosen size in the flight path
>of the incoming missile. It does double duty because the missile hits it
>going in, and then the rubble hits it again going out the other side.
>
>Bearden cites a number of examples of these domes being tested around
>the world:
>March 20, 1969 | March 24, 1977 | August 17, 1980 | June 17, 1966 |
>June 18, 1982  June 22, 1976
>
>So while the Russians have arrived at a near perfect missile defense,
>the West is still messing around trying to hit an incoming missile with
>another missile. 
>
>
>
>Vulnerabilities
>
>Bearden lists some of the vulnerabilities the new weapons create:
>
>"Almost every weapon system we presently have -- or are developing --
>is totally vulnerable to scalar EM weaponry.
>         This includes personnel, electronics (including fuzing and
>warhead), explosives, propellants, fuels, ordnance, ships, submarines,
>torpedoes, aircraft, helicopters, missiles, drones, rockets, tanks,
>armored vehicles, weapons carriers, self-propelled and towed artillery,
>communications, [see also] satellites, radars, command and control,
>directed energy weapon systems, surveillance and sensor systems, mines,
>artillery rounds and ammunition, nuclear warheads, etc.
>         We are in dire straits. We need a "Manhattan Project" of the
>highest priority.  Now!
>         The Soviets have already had the equivalent of seven or eight
>Manhattan Projects in this area."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s105.htm
>    
>
>Crop circles, Glowing Orbs, and Scalar Interferometers
>
>Scalar interferometry may explain many unusual phenomena that are being
>sighted. Two immediately come to mind, the glowing orbs that are being
>seen in the skies around the world, and the crop circles. Both phenomena
>could be easily accomplished with the new scalar superweapons. Balls of
>plasma flying through the sky at phenomenal speeds may well be the
>"marker beacons" of the scalar weapons. Marker beacons are created for
>fine tuning the aiming of the devices. Air Force jets were recently sent
>aloft from Edwards AFB to chase two just glowing orbs. After chasing
>them a while, the orbs simple vanished. That is to say, the scalar beams
>creating the orb were turned off.
>
>By feeding a graphic pattern into the aiming software such a plasma
>ball could be made to trace out that pattern, at the distant
>interference zone (target zone), making the standing crops fall over,
>creating a crop circle. Remember there are many modes and effects of
>these weapons. They are really the engineering of reality itself.
>
>
>Summary
>If Tom Bearden's information is correct then we will have to reexamine
>world affairs in a new light, seeing the maneuvering of those forces who
>possess the new weapons. For one thing, there is no defense against such
>weapons other than having the weapons oneself. And it would appear that
>Russia (actually the KGB) is the most advanced in the development of
>these weapons, at least according to Tom Bearden, who has briefed the
>U.S. Military on these issues a number of times.
>
>With the Bush cabal about to attack Iraq, against the objection of
>nearly the entire rest of the world, one has to wonder if we are about
>to see the world's first overt scalar war.
>
>If the U.S. is to prevail in that attack, it can only be with the tacit
>permission of the Russian possessors of this technology, for they could
>easily cause any sky or land attack to fail. They could drop the
>warplanes out of the sky, cause tanks and all communications to fail,
>cause whole battallions to drop dead like limp rags. If they wanted to
>they could put up a Tesla dome over Baghdad that would be impenetrable
>to missiles, planes and bombs.
>
>Won't it just be too tempting for some possessor of this technology to
>try turn the tide of the coming war with longitudinal wave
>interferometers? And will that lead to an all out war with these same
>weapons? The world's first scalar electromagnetic war? Or will restraint
>be shown, by all possesors of these weapons, allowing an old-fashioned
>war to proceed in the old-fashioned way?
>   
>
>The devices called "Tesla howitzers" can be put to a myriad of peaceful
>uses, including reversing global warming (vent the heat to outer space),
>and preparing a surefire means of preventing any asteroids from hitting
>the earth.
>
>Bearden says that the Russian possessors of these devices must surely
>have understood that the devices could wipe out all life on earth, even
>upsetting the scalar balance of earth and sun resulting in large storms
>on the sun. They can also backfire on the user of them:
>
>"Perhaps with the free and open release of Tesla's secret, the
>scientific and governmental bureaucracies will be shocked awake from
>their slumber, and we can develop defenses before Armageddon occurs.
>Perhaps there is hope after all -- for even Brezhnev, in his strange
>July, 1975 proposal to the SALT talks, seemed to reveal a perception
>that a turning point in war and weaponry may have been reached, and that
>human imagination is incapable of dealing with the ability to totally
>engineer reality itself.
>
>"Having tested the weapons, the Soviets must be aware that the
>ill-provoked oscillation of timeflow affects the minds and thoughts --
>and the very lifestreams and even the collective species
>unconsciousnesses -- of all lifeforms on earth. They must know that
>these weapons are two-edged swords, and that the backlash from their use
>can be far more terrible to the user than was the original effect to his
>victim.
>
>"If we can avoid the Apocalypse, the fantastic secret of Nikola Tesla
>can be employed to cure and elevate man, not kill him. Tesla's discovery
>can eventually remove every conceivable external human limitation. If we
>humans ourselves can elevate our consciousness to properly utilize the
>Tesla electromagnetics, then Nikola Tesla -- who gave us the electrical
>twentieth century in the first place -- may yet give us a fantastic new
>future more shining and glorious than all the great scientists and sages
>have imagined."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/part1/teslaweapons.htm
>
>The secrecy with which this technology has been held from the human
>race can only be called  a crime again humanity. Instead of using these
>incredible new discoveries for good, for free energy, and for healing,
>shadowy groups around the world have used the technology to make
>terrible weapons of war such as the earth has never dreamed of.
>
>A final word from Tom Bearden:
>
>"The "terror" in the "balance of terror" between nations has just
>increased by many, many orders of magnitude.
>
>"The biblical prophecy that the Earth will be wiped out by "fire and
>brimstone from heaven" is very near fulfillment now.
>
>"Put another way, the pucker factor -- even on the Russians who may
>contemplate unleashing Armageddon -- is higher than any Western
>strategic analyst has ever imagined, even in his wildest nightmares.
>
>"Truly these weapons are "more frightening than the mind of man has
>imagined," as Brezhnev put it in 1975.
>
>"The frightening scalar EM weapons can be used, but only very, very
>gingerly indeed. If a slight mistake is made, everybody loses
>everything."
>
>http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s74.htm
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 16 04:24:07 2002
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Relativistic Hypocharge and The Gravity Force
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:22:22 -0500
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The String Circle Particle Model or a similar model, David Bergman's Rotating Charge
Circle:

www.commonsensescience.org

treats the electron and proton in much the same manner.

The Relativistically Frame Invariant Charge q = CV = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, a
constant for any particle size/mass.

But, the Hypocharge q' for the proton and q'' for the electron = I/t = q/gamma for the
respective particles comes about by time-dilation of the Displacement Current,
I/gamma.

However, due to Time-Dilation of the displacement current I = C*dV/dt, where
Time-Dilation = (Fes/Fg)^1/2, at unit separation the particles "see" each other's
Hypocharge in proportion to their own and the other's dilation gamma factor. Hence the
gamma and hypocharge square relationship.

+/- q' is ~ 1.43e-37 Coulombs for the proton/antiproton particle circle, and +/- q''
is ~ 7.8e-41 Coulombs for the electron/positron particle circle.

Thus Fg = G*m1*m2/R^2 = k*q'^2/R^2 or k*q'*q''/R^2.

k = 1/(4(pi)eo

Fred

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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
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Subject: RE: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure gases...
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Hi Hamdi, Colin, & All.

The 2MV stood out for me too, I've worked with 1/2MV DC machines
which were pretty frightening. But you'll notice he's using a
marx bank generator, so the 2MV is impulse and quite do-able.

One obvious typo is the faraday shield size, 2 cm???? Here he
must mean meters.

It would be nice to see some pics, but I think he's actually
building these things so I don't miss them. I don't see that
it would help much either to get publicity. Unless he's willing
to provide samples of his SC disks, it would be too difficult
to reproduce. That's where the magic is. All the rest is just
the usual engineering problems.

My beef is with his velocity measurements. That's a key
piece of information, and it's a lot easier to measure
than he's saying in the paper. Either he needs some
help here, or he's done it and is keeping that bit close
to his vest. I was really hoping to see that in this
paper, it's been something like 6 months now...

By the way, what a remarkable set of experiments, huh?
I tip my hat to this guy, he's a truely great researcher.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: hamdi ucar [mailto:hamdix verisoft.com.tr]
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:02 PM
To: Colin Quinney
Cc: jlnlabs yahoogroups.com; orchestra@ttnet.net.tr;
kyle_mcallister yahoo.com; John Schnurer; vortex-l@eskimo.com;
forcefieldpropulsionphysics egroups.com;
newelectrogravity yahoogroups.com; greenglow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low
pressure gases...


Dear Colin and all,

I'd love to have more information about the Impulse Gravity Generator (IGG)
but currently no more information available from Podkletnov site. See my
earlier post on this subject "Re: Antigravity researchers should publish".

I think the phenomenon behind the IGG is so radical just like the Godin's
machine, it require serious scientific approach. That is popularizing the
IGG can only adds speculations but not the required interest.

While reading the Recent article "EVALUATION OF AN IMPULSE GRAVITY GENERATOR
BASED BEAMED PROPULSION CONCEPT" I thought even the Newton's second Law
(F=m.a) may not be applicable on gravity impulse. That is Newton's gravity
model can not be adapted here (F = G.m1.m2/r^2). Maybe General Relativity
may help where is no accelerating force between bodies but space curvature.
In GR, bodies simply follow the geodesic (the spacetime curvature) and
appears to accelerate when observed by a reference which not follows this
curvature. Force arise when bodies are prevented to follow to curvature, the
free fall.
when two bodies (m1,m2) are gravitating, each one follows the curvature of
the other.
m1 accelerate proportional to m2 mass and vice versa. All I can do here is
try to apply GR principles in simple Newton's gravity.

Accelerations a1 and a2 of gravitating masses m1 and m2 can be written as

a1 = k.m2   (1)
a2 = k.m1

where k is a constant determined gravity constant and distance between
gravitating bodies. Applying F = m.a formula to find equivalent forces for
obtaining these accelerations

F1 = a1.m1 = k.m2.m1   (2)
F2 = a2.m2 = k.m1.m2

therefore F1 = F2 satisfying Newton's third law.

But if a curvature is created artificially, Eq.1 is not applicable therefore
there would be no equality between forces F1 and F2. Explicitly, If IGG
create a spacetime curvature,
objects lying in the gravity impulse beam are accelerated but the IGG itself
may not be affected by this situation therefore it will not accelerate at
all.

When IGG and masses subjected to its beam is considered and mechanically
interacting system, a violation of Newton's third law occurs because
action-reaction inequality.

Actually this violation is very handy for a space propulsion system, where
and spacecraft can accelerate itself just like somebody trying to raise
oneself on air by pulling his boots up. This method instead works here
because boots will not to pull one's hands down with an equal and opposite
force. An IGG mounted at back (bottom) of spacecraft will accelerate by
"pushing" part of its body forward.

If IGG does not obeys Newton's laws, energy gained by accelerating bodies
may not be directly related to energy consumed by IGG, because there would
be no classical mechanism to provide energy exchange, and may GR help to
understand it.

Actually, I have only an introductionary understanding of GR and no
mathematical support so all I wrote here is for show theoretical support for
IGG is vital.

Colin Quinney wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> 2 MV is mentioned more than once so it's probably not a typo.
> http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051
>
> I'll tell you what I want to see is pictures. We chastised Roschin/Godin
for
> no pix of their apparatus and I think we should hold Podkletnov et al to
the
> same standard. Look what JL Naudin has done with pix. Videos even. He's
> practically created a small industry of lifters because a pix is worth
1000
> words and a video worth 10 times that again.  I'd love to see the gravity
> impulse generator in action with a video that can be seen on the Internet
as
> I'm sure would everybody else! Seeing is believing. Hamdi & John seem to
> have some access to the Gravity.org web site so maybe we should politely
> request them to put the request for a video to Eugene Podkletnov and
> Giovanni Modanese.. (?)
>
> Colin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
> To: <jlnlabs yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low
pressure
> gases...
>
> > I wonder if it really means 2 million volts or if that's a typo.
> >
> > - Rick Monteverde,
> > Honolulu Hawaii
> >
> >
> > >Dear All,
> > >
> > >You will find a very interesting paper, see below :
> > >
> > ><A HREF="http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051> ><< Physics,
abstract -
> physics/0209051
> > >From: Giovanni Modanese
> > >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:55:34 GMT
> > >Investigation of high voltage discharges in low pressure gases through
> large
> > >ceramic superconducting electrodes
> > >
> > >Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
> > >Comments: PDF, 18 pages, 5 figures
> > >Subj-class: General Physics
> > >> A device has been built and tested, in which a ceramic
superconducting
> > >> cathode and a copper anode cause electrical discharges in low
pressure
> > >> gases, at temperatures between 50 and 70 K. The electrodes are
> connected to
> > > > a capacitors array charged up to 2000 kV; peak currents are of the
> order of
> > > > 10^4 A.
> > <snip>
>
> ---

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 16 16:21:21 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Relativistic Hypocharge and The Gravity Force
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:19:27 +1000
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In reply to  Frederick Sparber's message of Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:22:22 -0500:
Hi Fred,

What's the difference between "Hypocharge" and "magnetic field"?

>The String Circle Particle Model or a similar model, David Bergman's Rotating Charge
>Circle:
>
>www.commonsensescience.org
>
>treats the electron and proton in much the same manner.
>
>The Relativistically Frame Invariant Charge q = CV = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, a
>constant for any particle size/mass.
>
>But, the Hypocharge q' for the proton and q'' for the electron = I/t = q/gamma for the
>respective particles comes about by time-dilation of the Displacement Current,
>I/gamma.
>
>However, due to Time-Dilation of the displacement current I = C*dV/dt, where
>Time-Dilation = (Fes/Fg)^1/2, at unit separation the particles "see" each other's
>Hypocharge in proportion to their own and the other's dilation gamma factor. Hence the
>gamma and hypocharge square relationship.
>
>+/- q' is ~ 1.43e-37 Coulombs for the proton/antiproton particle circle, and +/- q''
>is ~ 7.8e-41 Coulombs for the electron/positron particle circle.
>
>Thus Fg = G*m1*m2/R^2 = k*q'^2/R^2 or k*q'*q''/R^2.
>
>k = 1/(4(pi)eo
>
>Fred

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 16 22:40:38 2002
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Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure gases...
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Hi Keith, and All,

This isn't directed at you Keith, but I'm frustrated because my concern is
that the whole field of gravity modification and CF is looked upon as such
quackery that Western investors cannot grasp the basic concept and belief in
the project until (at least) seeing a good video. As an example- Lifters
*appear* to be "antigravity" to the uninitiated. The history of
electroaerodynamics has been around since the 50's and the patents go back
to at least the 30's or 20's, yet "lifters" were not generally believed in
until a Web site video of them turned a borderline sceptical crowd into a
bunch of believers- who then put up the dollars to replicate, myself
included. Seeing IS believing. My initial scepticism disappeared on seeing
the videos displayed by Jean-Louis Naudin with his first replication of
Transdimensional Technology's Lifter-3. So making the right superconductor
will not be a problem when you have 20 or 30 various scientists and
engineers around the world attempting a replication after seeing say a
Podkletnov video.

Of course, the Podkletnov gravity pulse experiment requires serious funding.
Human nature (and logic) therefore says all the more reason to "see' it in
action. It's harder evidence.

Some would say that serious researchers should have nothing to do with the
internet and web-cam videos etc., but I would say to them this is either a
snobbish attitude or fear of ridicule or fear of theft of intellectual
property. To be pragmatic I believe that funding of gravity modification or
cold fusion will go a lot farther when videos of the successful experiments
are displayed. If not on the Internet, then on television. Television has
best impact, next to seeing it in person. And this goes equally for
Roshin/Godin, de Aquino, Mills, Correa, etc., and for CF in general. I don't
want to wait 100 years for the "right timing". I say to all the successful
and serious leading edge researchers, Do your own webcam production, and
then invite a TV or film producer or story editor to lunch at your lab.

Colin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure
gases...


> Hi Hamdi, Colin, & All.
>
> The 2MV stood out for me too, I've worked with 1/2MV DC machines
> which were pretty frightening. But you'll notice he's using a
> marx bank generator, so the 2MV is impulse and quite do-able.
>
> One obvious typo is the faraday shield size, 2 cm???? Here he
> must mean meters.
>
> It would be nice to see some pics, but I think he's actually
> building these things so I don't miss them. I don't see that
> it would help much either to get publicity. Unless he's willing
> to provide samples of his SC disks, it would be too difficult
> to reproduce. That's where the magic is. All the rest is just
> the usual engineering problems.
>
> My beef is with his velocity measurements. That's a key
> piece of information, and it's a lot easier to measure
> than he's saying in the paper. Either he needs some
> help here, or he's done it and is keeping that bit close
> to his vest. I was really hoping to see that in this
> paper, it's been something like 6 months now...
>
> By the way, what a remarkable set of experiments, huh?
> I tip my hat to this guy, he's a truely great researcher.
>
> K.



---
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THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL

Leslie Kean: Origin of crop circles baffles scientists
09/16/2002

SAN FRANCISCO

SINCE THE RECENT release of the movie Signs, crop circles have been
thrust into the limelight. Such major publications as Scientific
American and U.S. News and World Report have echoed the common belief
that all crop circles are made by stealthy humans flattening plants with
boards. This assumption would be fair enough if we had no information
suggesting otherwise.

However, intriguing data published in peer-reviewed scientific journals
clearly establishes that some of these geometric designs, found in
dozens of countries, are not made by "pranks with planks." In fact, a
study about to be published by a team of scientists and funded by
Laurance Rockefeller concludes "it is possible that we are observing the
effects of a new or as yet undiscovered energy source."

In the early 1990s, biophysicist William C. Levengood, of the Pinelandia
Biophysical Laboratory, in Michigan, examined plants and soils from 250
crop formations, randomly selected from seven countries. Samples and
controls were provided by the Massachusetts-based BLT Research Team,
directed by Nancy Talbott.

Levengood, who has published over 50 papers in scientific journals,
documented numerous changes in the plants from the formations. Most
dramatic were grossly elongated plant nodes (the "knuckles" along the
stem) and "expulsion cavities" -- holes literally blown open at the
nodes -- caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to
intense bursts of radiation. The steam inside the stems escaped by
either stretching the nodes or, in less elastic tissue, exploding out
like a potato bursting open in a microwave oven.

Seeds taken from the plants and germinated in the lab showed significant
alterations in growth, as compared with controls. Effects varied from an
inability to develop seeds to a massive increase in growth rate --
depending on the species, the age of the plants when the circle was
created and the intensity of the energy system involved.

These anomalies were also found in tufts of standing plants inside crop
circles -- clearly not a result of mechanical flattening -- and in
patches of randomly downed crops found near the geometric designs. These
facts suggested some kind of natural, but unknown, force at work.

Published in Physiologia Plantarum (1994), the international journal of
the European Societies of Plant Physiology, Levengood's data showed that
"plants from crop circles display anatomical alterations which cannot be
explained by assuming the formations are hoaxes." He defined a "genuine"
formation as one "produced by external energy forces independent of
human influence."

A strange brown "glaze" covering plants within a British formation was
the subject of Levengood and John A. Burke's 1995 paper in the Journal
of Scientific Exploration. The material was a pure iron that had been
embedded in the plants while the iron was still molten. Tiny iron
spheres were also found in the soil.

In 1999, British investigator Ronald Ashby examined the glaze through
optical and scanning electron microscopes. He determined that intense
heat had been involved -- iron melts at about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit
-- administered in millisecond bursts. "After exhaustive inquiry, there
is no mundane explanation for the glaze" he concluded.

In another paper for Physiologia Plantarum (1999), Levengood and Talbott
suggested that the energy causing crop circles could be an atmospheric
plasma vortex -- multiple interacting electrified air masses that emit
microwaves as they spiral around the earth's magnetic-field lines.

Some formations, however, contain cubes and straight lines.
Astrophysicist Bernard Haisch, of the California Institute for Physics
and Astrophysics, says that such "highly organized, intelligent patterns
are not something that could be created by a force of nature."

But Haisch points out that since not all formations are tested, it is
unknown how many are genuine. Nor is it likely that such complex designs
could evolve so quickly in nature. "Natural phenomena make mountain
ranges and form continents -- they don't learn geometry in ten years,"
says Haisch, who is the science editor for the Astrophysical Journal.

In 1999, philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller made possible the most
definitive -- and most revealing -- study to date. The BLT Research Team
collected hundreds of plant and soil samples from a seven-circle barley
formation in Edmonton, Canada. The plants had both elongated nodes and
expulsion cavities, and the soils contained the peculiar iron spheres,
indicating a genuine formation. The controls showed none of these changes.

Mineralogist Sampath Iyengar, of the Technology of Materials Laboratory,
in California, examined specific heat-sensitive clay minerals in these
soils, using X-ray diffraction and a scanning electron microscope. He
discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of
atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan
determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of
confidence.

"I was shocked," says Iyengar, a 30-year specialist in clay mineralogy.
"These changes are normally found in sediments buried for thousands and
thousands of years under rocks, affected by heat and pressure, and not
in surface soils."

Also astounding was the direct correlation between the node-length
increases in the plants and the increased crystallization in the soil
minerals -- indicating a common energy source for both effects. Yet the
scientists could not explain how this would be possible. The temperature
required to alter soil crystallinity would be between 1,500 and 1,800
degrees F. This would destroy the plants.

Understanding the possible ramifications of these findings, Talbott
sought the expertise of an emeritus professor of geology and mineralogy
at Dartmouth College, Robert C. Reynolds Jr., who is former president of
the Clay Minerals Society. He is regarded by his colleagues as the
"best-known expert in the world" on X-ray diffraction analysis of clay
minerals.

Reynolds determined that the BLT Team's data had been "obtained by
competent personnel, using current equipment."

The intense heat required for the observed changes in crystallinity
"would have incinerated any plant material present," he confirms in a
statement for the Rockefeller report. "In short, I believe that our
present knowledge provides no explanation."

Meteorologist James W. Deardorff, professor emeritus at the College of
Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University, and
previously a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric
Research, states in a 2001 Physiologia Plantarum commentary that the
variety, complexity and artistry of crop circles "represent the work of
intelligence," and not a plasma vortex. "That is why the hoax hypothesis
has been popularly advocated," he says.

However, he points out, the anomalous properties in plant stems
thoroughly documented by Levengood and Talbott could not possibly have
been implemented by hoaxers. Deardorff describes one 1986 British
formation in which upper and lower layers of crop were intricately
swirled and bent perpendicular to each other, in a fashion that "defies
any explanation."

"People don't want to face up to this, and scientists have to deal with
the ridicule factor," he said in a recent interview.

Adding to the puzzle, professional filmmakers have documented bizarre
daytime "balls of light" at crop-circle sites. Light phenomena were
observed by multiple witnesses at the site of the Canadian circle so
meticulously examined under the Rockefeller grant.

Eltjo Hasselhoff, a Dutch experimental physicist, has taken on the study
of what he describes as "bright, fluorescent flying light objects,sized
somewhere between an egg and a football."

Scientists face real and serious questions in confronting this mystery.
Could this be secret laser technology beamed down from satellites? Is it
a natural phenomenon? Is there a consciousness or intelligence directing
an energy form yet unknown to us?

"To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing," says
astrophysicist Haisch. "To not look at the evidence and be convinced
against it . . . is another. That is not science." It's not good
journalism, either.

Leslie Kean is an investigative reporter and producer with Pacifica
Radio based in the San Francisco Bay Area. She can be reached at
lkean ix.netcom.net.

Online at:
http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/projo_20020916_kean.21cb0.
html



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 17 09:22:30 2002
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "Colin Quinney" <crquin@rogers.com>
Subject: RE: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure gases...
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:34:06 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMMEEPDFAA.knagel gis.net>
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Hi Colin.

>This isn't directed at you Keith, but I'm frustrated because my concern is
>that the whole field of gravity modification and CF is looked upon as such
>quackery that Western investors cannot grasp the basic concept and belief
in
>the project until (at least) seeing a good video.

Well that's why it's called the fringe, Colin. Want to hear
the definition of a pioneer? It's the guy with all the arrows sticking
out of his ass (grin).

> As an example- Lifters
>*appear* to be "antigravity" to the uninitiated. The history of
>electroaerodynamics has been around since the 50's and the patents go back
>to at least the 30's or 20's, yet "lifters" were not generally believed in
>until a Web site video of them turned a borderline sceptical crowd into a
>bunch of believers- who then put up the dollars to replicate, myself
>included.

No one doubts ( or doubted ) that the lifters lift. What's at issue is
whether the
results need more explaination than simple ionic propulsion. Perhaps
you can summarize the best evidence for non-ionic lifting? Also,
what's the highest thrust/energy input ratio recorded? Frankly
I wouldn't care about the validity of the first claim if it could
be shown that the ion engine can be made practical. Certainly
great advances have been made in power supplies since the 20's.
If the lifter folks are getting anywhere near the thrust I can
get from the same energy into an electric motor and prop, then
by god we've really got something!

>So making the right superconductor
>will not be a problem when you have 20 or 30 various scientists and
>engineers around the world attempting a replication after seeing say a
>Podkletnov video.

Oh yes it will be. NASA spent a few million and seemed to have
failed miserably. Gene is a materials scientist and has spent
his life "cooking" these cakes. I admire the amateur's enthusiasm
but question their lack of respect for the scale of the mountain...

> I say to all the successful
>and serious leading edge researchers, Do your own webcam production, and
>then invite a TV or film producer or story editor to lunch at your lab.

Good point. Most serious researchers couldn't sell beer in a desert.
I agree that some kind of promotional person is essential for fund
raising. The university system has professional grant writers.
The fringe needs some equivalent.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 17 12:21:15 2002
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
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Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure gases...
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:13:40 -0400
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Hi Keith,

When the Lifter craze started there was much speculation about that. Now it
is generally conceded that it is over 99% ion wind. What I was primarily
sceptical of was the initial claims of antigravity, even though "I Want to
Believe" :-)

There is a slight residual thrust noted toward the positive electrode but it
is swamped by the ion interactions due to the asymmetric electrode
configuration. To the best of my reading, that small residual [toward]
positive electrode thrust has been determined to be the difference between
(+ - ) ion momentums in air. So there is practically no longer any perceived
"anomalous" thrust existing with lifters. Highest thrust/energy input ratio
I believe was less than that of an efficient fan. I believe 1/2 that of a
helicopter, but that "comparison" does not yet include the weight of the
lifter's power supply. The efficiencies however ARE improving monthly, as
reported on JL. Naudin's Lists. I believe Jean-Louis could give better stats
on that than can I.

The Biefield Brown "gravitor" or "gravitator" however, which uses a solid
leaky dielectric has not yet been thoroughly investigated. There was an
anomalous thrust reported by Brown toward the positive electrode during
voltage spikes. This was also reported coinciding with a vacuum spark in the
NASA Veritay report. In my opinion however, a definitive *positive*
anomalous experiment MUST show net thrust *only* when all the high voltage
apparatus has been contained within a tight electrically sealed Faraday
cage. Vacuum chamber test for rigor is misleading due to coulomb artifacts
from stray ES fields. High vacuum test is therefore unnecessary.

I think the main fascination with lifters is first their mystery, and then
their appearance, but there is a hard core of serious lifter researchers who
continue with experimental variations and they continue to report increased
thrust ratios. Also related is a report that increased atmospheric pressure
increases that ratio. This means that an "airborne" robot probe in high
pressure atmospheres of other planets might be efficient. Batteries and
power supplies designs are reportedly becoming more efficient and of less
weight. I believe the largest lifter design is now well over 6 feet in
diameter and can lift over 600 grams (without PS).

I personally believe that the optimal design craft is a rigid delta wing
helium or hydrogen balloon with modified lifter design for thrust and the
resultant electroaerodynamics effect causing a reduction of atmospheric
friction. See Naudin Labs web site for more, and realize of course that
development will continue with now almost 100 active researchers combining
their efforts and reporting their results.. (..with videos <g> )

Best,
Colin



----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>; "Colin Quinney" <crquin@rogers.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: [jlnlabs] (Info) Investigation of HV discharges in low pressure
gases...


> Hi Colin.
>
> >This isn't directed at you Keith, but I'm frustrated because my concern
is
> >that the whole field of gravity modification and CF is looked upon as
such
> >quackery that Western investors cannot grasp the basic concept and belief
> in
> >the project until (at least) seeing a good video.
>
> Well that's why it's called the fringe, Colin. Want to hear
> the definition of a pioneer? It's the guy with all the arrows sticking
> out of his ass (grin).
>
> > As an example- Lifters
> >*appear* to be "antigravity" to the uninitiated. The history of
> >electroaerodynamics has been around since the 50's and the patents go
back
> >to at least the 30's or 20's, yet "lifters" were not generally believed
in
> >until a Web site video of them turned a borderline sceptical crowd into a
> >bunch of believers- who then put up the dollars to replicate, myself
> >included.
>
> No one doubts ( or doubted ) that the lifters lift. What's at issue is
> whether the
> results need more explaination than simple ionic propulsion. Perhaps
> you can summarize the best evidence for non-ionic lifting? Also,
> what's the highest thrust/energy input ratio recorded? Frankly
> I wouldn't care about the validity of the first claim if it could
> be shown that the ion engine can be made practical. Certainly
> great advances have been made in power supplies since the 20's.
> If the lifter folks are getting anywhere near the thrust I can
> get from the same energy into an electric motor and prop, then
> by god we've really got something!
>
> >So making the right superconductor
> >will not be a problem when you have 20 or 30 various scientists and
> >engineers around the world attempting a replication after seeing say a
> >Podkletnov video.
>
> Oh yes it will be. NASA spent a few million and seemed to have
> failed miserably. Gene is a materials scientist and has spent
> his life "cooking" these cakes. I admire the amateur's enthusiasm
> but question their lack of respect for the scale of the mountain...
>
> > I say to all the successful
> >and serious leading edge researchers, Do your own webcam production, and
> >then invite a TV or film producer or story editor to lunch at your lab.
>
> Good point. Most serious researchers couldn't sell beer in a desert.
> I agree that some kind of promotional person is essential for fund
> raising. The university system has professional grant writers.
> The fringe needs some equivalent.
>
> K.
>


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 17 13:37:20 2002
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Subject: znidarsic's 2000 ANS lecture
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 <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html">http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html</A> 

Enjoy 

Frank Znidarsic

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica> <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html">http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html</A> <FONT  SIZE=2><BR>
<BR>
Enjoy <BR>
<BR>
Frank Znidarsic</FONT></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 17 18:55:49 2002
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Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Chernetski
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:51:01 -0400
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To All,

What ever happened with Chernetski and the research he was doing with
anomalous momentum or anomalous developed power flow from positive ion flow
with his plasma research? He was (is) a Russian researcher working with
plasma containment in fusion reactors and the story reminded me a bit about
Tesla blowing out a generator. PACE did a story on him several years ago but
I have heard nothing since.

Colin


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REPOST

Hi Keith and All,

When the Lifter craze started there was much speculation about that. Now it
is generally conceded that it is over 99% ion wind. What I was primarily
sceptical of was the initial claims of antigravity, even though "I Want to
Believe" :-)

There is a slight residual thrust noted toward the positive electrode but it
is swamped by the ion interactions due to the asymmetric electrode
configuration. To the best of my reading, that small residual [toward]
positive electrode thrust has been determined to be the difference between
(+ - ) ion momentums in air. So there is practically no longer any perceived
"anomalous" thrust existing with lifters. Highest thrust/energy input ratio
I believe was less than that of an efficient fan. I believe 1/2 that of a
helicopter, but that "comparison" does not yet include the weight of the
lifter's power supply. The efficiencies however ARE improving monthly, as
reported on JL. Naudin's Lists. I believe Jean-Louis could give better stats
on that than can I.

The Biefield Brown "gravitor" or "gravitator" however, which uses a solid
leaky dielectric has not yet been thoroughly investigated. There was an
anomalous thrust reported by Brown toward the positive electrode during
voltage spikes. This was also reported coinciding with a vacuum spark in the
NASA Veritay report. In my opinion however, a definitive *positive*
anomalous experiment MUST show net thrust *only* when all the high voltage
apparatus has been contained within a tight electrically sealed Faraday
cage. Vacuum chamber test for rigor is misleading due to coulomb artifacts
from stray ES fields. High vacuum test is therefore unnecessary and
misleading.

I think the main fascination with lifters is first their mystery, and then
their appearance, but there is a hard core of serious lifter researchers who
continue with experimental variations and they continue to report increased
thrust ratios. Also related is a report that increased atmospheric pressure
increases that ratio. This means that an "airborne" robot probe in high
pressure atmospheres of other planets might be efficient. Batteries and
power supplies designs by Lifer researchers are reportedly becoming more
efficient and of less
weight. I believe the largest lifter design is now well over 6 feet in
diameter and can lift over 600 grams (without PS).

I personally believe that the optimal design craft is a rigid delta wing
helium or hydrogen balloon with modified lifter design for thrust and the
resultant electroaerodynamics effect causing a reduction of atmospheric
friction. See Naudin Labs web site for more, and realize of course that
development will continue with now almost 100 active researchers combining
their efforts and reporting their results.. (..with videos <g> )

Best,
Colin






---
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 19 02:31:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:48:57 +0100
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From: Stephen Lawrence <stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk>
Subject: Hello, South Africa
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Dear Vortexians,

is there anyone living in S. Africra within range of Jonnesburg?

I'd like to link up with you

Best Regards, Stephen Lawrence, Committee for Future Energies.
Stephen Lawrence, 8 Supanee Court, French's Road, Cambridge, England, CB4 
3LB.  Tel/Fax +44 1223 564373

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 19 07:29:21 2002
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: LENR.org relocated, papers available again soon
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Greetings all. We have relocated the LENR.org collection of papers on cold 
fusion to a new site:

http://lenr-canr.org/

(We had to change the name for reasons beyond our control.)

The new site came on line this morning, but I have not yet uploaded the 
papers. I am busy cleaning up and renaming the files, preparing the new 
index system, and converting the Abstracts to HTML.

Here is the blurb now uploaded at the new site:

This site features a collection of papers on LENR, Low Energy Nuclear 
Reactions, also known as Cold Fusion. (CANR, Chemically Assisted Nuclear 
Reactions, is another term for this phenomenon.) We are in the process of 
combining this material with the conference site for the upcoming Tenth 
International Conference on Cold Fusion (ICCF10.org). We are reorganizing 
the papers and preparing some new features including:

* The ICCF-10 First Announcement and Call for Pre-registration, allowing 
pre-registration on line.

* An extensive bibliography of nearly 3,000 papers about LENR.

* Downloadable copies of the bibliography in EndNote and RIS formats.

* An improved index system closely integrated with the bibliography, 
showing papers available for download and other papers by the same author.

* A list of co-authors and key words for each paper in the bibliography.

* Abstracts for some of the papers we are not able to upload.

* More papers, photographs of laboratories and equipment, poster session 
material, and more.

We hope to re-open this site for downloads in a few days. Sorry for any 
inconvenience.

- Jed Rothwell, September 16, 2002


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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
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Subject: Re: znidarsic's 2000 ANS lecture
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Hi Frank,

Good lecture :-)  and thank you for sharing it with us. The slides were =
a bit slow coming into view but I "got it" after they appeared.

I have a report here somewhere about superconductivity creeping into =
various plasmas and I'm wondering what would happen if we  =
electromagnetically rotated a plasma with phased coils on say mercury =
vapour lights or one of those halogen street lights at the critical =
frequency. What do we know about where superconductivity appears.. =
Superconductivity is reported in more than cryolabs. There are also =
reports of organic superconductivity. Sorry no reference, but has to do =
with neuron cells I believe. It might explain some unusual levitations =
by fakirs, saints etc..=20

Colin
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com=20
  To: vortex-l eskimo.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 4:34 PM
  Subject: znidarsic's 2000 ANS lecture


  http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html=20

  Enjoy=20

  Frank Znidarsic=20


  ---
  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Frank,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good lecture :-)&nbsp; and =
t</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>hank you for sharing it with us. The slides were a bit slow =
coming into=20
view but I "got it" after they appeared.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have&nbsp;a report here somewhere =
about=20
superconductivity creeping into various plasmas&nbsp;and I'm wondering =
what=20
would happen if we&nbsp; electromagnetically rotated a plasma with =
phased coils=20
on say mercury vapour lights or one of those halogen street lights at =
the=20
critical frequency. What do we know about where superconductivity =
appears..=20
Superconductivity is reported in more than cryolabs. There are also =
reports of=20
organic superconductivity. Sorry no reference, but has to do with neuron =
cells I=20
believe. It might explain some unusual levitations by fakirs, saints =
etc..=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Colin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DFZNIDARSIC aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:FZNIDARSIC aol.com">FZNIDARSIC@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex-l@eskimo.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 17, =
2002 4:34=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> znidarsic's 2000 ANS=20
  lecture</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html">http://www.ang=
elfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptere.html</A>=20
  <FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>Enjoy <BR><BR>Frank Znidarsic</FONT> <FONT=20
  size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Outgoing =
mail is=20
  certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
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href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =
6.0.389=20
  / Virus Database: 220 - Release Date:=20
9/17/2002</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 20 14:41:01 2002
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Sep 20, 2002
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:00:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 20 Sep 02   Washington, DC

1. INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION: "HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM."  If
you don't get the answer you want, the theory goes, just appoint
another panel.  It's not working.  The latest look at the ISS as
a place to do scientific research is by a National Research
Council panel.  The Task Group on Research on the International
Space Station found just what all the other panels found: 1) The
ISS is not shaping up to be a world-class research facility, 2)
the scientific community has shown little interest in using the
space station to conduct research, and 3) NASA's primary goal for
the use of the Space Station has never been made clear.  This may
sound shocking for a research facility that's expected to eat up
more than $100B, but it shouldn't be a surprise.  As long ago as
1990, the Advisory Committee on the Future of the US Space
Program, headed by Norm Augustine, called for drastic rethinking
of the Space Station: "We do not believe the space station can be
justified on the basis of the science it can perform" (WN 14 Dec
90).  Almost the same words were echoed in a statement adopted by
the Council of the American Physical Society (WN 25 Jan 91).  The
biologists made the same point (WN 17 Jul 98).  But it was
France's Space Minister, who said it all: "It is expensive, it no
longer makes people dream, and is has no scientific value."  He
said he would not be surprised to see it scrapped (WN 26 Jun 98).

2. WEAPONS DETECTION: MORE COMPLICATED THAN WE (OR ABC) IMAGINED. 
Last week's WN told the story of ABC News "smuggling" a mock bomb
into the country.  The "bomb" contained 15 pounds of depleted
uranium (DU).  WN scoffed at suggestions that that this was a
"perfect mock-up."  WN pointed out that U-235 in highly enriched
uranium (HEU)is more radioactive than U-238, which is strictly
true, but more expert readers gently suggested there was more to
the story.  Gamma rays from 235 are of much lower energy, and
most are absorbed by the uranium itself.  So DU is more easily
detected than HEU?  Probably not.  Most HEU is contaminated with
U-232, a highly radioactive isotope with a daughter that emits an
easily detected gamma.  So HEU is more easily detected than DU?  
Not necessarily.  The U-232 contamination comes from the use of
reprocessed uranium.  South African and Pakistani HEU is produced
from virgin uranium and should contain no U-232.  Our thanks to
Steve Fetter for educating us on the realities of life in 2002.

3. WHERE NOW?  SLAKEY COMPLETES THE ASCENT OF THE SEVEN SUMMITS. 
Physicist Francis Slakey, our colleague in the Washington Office
of the APS, has returned from his 12 Aug 02 summit of Carstenz
Pyramid, Irian Jaya, Indonesia, the highest peak in Oceania.  He
has now climbed the highest mountains on all seven continents,
one of only 70 climbers in history to have done so.  In that
unstable region, the obstacles of the climb paled before the
hazards of bribing his way through bands of armed civilians.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's, and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 20 14:45:05 2002
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Please remove me from your mailing list.



                                                                                                                                       
                      Akira Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                      <aki ix.netcom.c         To:      Vortex <vortex-l@eskimo.com>                                                   
                      om>                      cc:                                                                                     
                                               Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 20, 2002]                                             
                      09/20/02 02:38                                                                                                   
                      PM MST                                                                                                           
                      Please respond                                                                                                   
                      to vortex-l                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       






-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Sep 20, 2002
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:00:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 20 Sep 02   Washington, DC

1. INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION: "HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM."  If
you don't get the answer you want, the theory goes, just appoint
another panel.  It's not working.  The latest look at the ISS as
a place to do scientific research is by a National Research
Council panel.  The Task Group on Research on the International
Space Station found just what all the other panels found: 1) The
ISS is not shaping up to be a world-class research facility, 2)
the scientific community has shown little interest in using the
space station to conduct research, and 3) NASA's primary goal for
the use of the Space Station has never been made clear.  This may
sound shocking for a research facility that's expected to eat up
more than $100B, but it shouldn't be a surprise.  As long ago as
1990, the Advisory Committee on the Future of the US Space
Program, headed by Norm Augustine, called for drastic rethinking
of the Space Station: "We do not believe the space station can be
justified on the basis of the science it can perform" (WN 14 Dec
90).  Almost the same words were echoed in a statement adopted by
the Council of the American Physical Society (WN 25 Jan 91).  The
biologists made the same point (WN 17 Jul 98).  But it was
France's Space Minister, who said it all: "It is expensive, it no
longer makes people dream, and is has no scientific value."  He
said he would not be surprised to see it scrapped (WN 26 Jun 98).

2. WEAPONS DETECTION: MORE COMPLICATED THAN WE (OR ABC) IMAGINED.
Last week's WN told the story of ABC News "smuggling" a mock bomb
into the country.  The "bomb" contained 15 pounds of depleted
uranium (DU).  WN scoffed at suggestions that that this was a
"perfect mock-up."  WN pointed out that U-235 in highly enriched
uranium (HEU)is more radioactive than U-238, which is strictly
true, but more expert readers gently suggested there was more to
the story.  Gamma rays from 235 are of much lower energy, and
most are absorbed by the uranium itself.  So DU is more easily
detected than HEU?  Probably not.  Most HEU is contaminated with
U-232, a highly radioactive isotope with a daughter that emits an
easily detected gamma.  So HEU is more easily detected than DU?
Not necessarily.  The U-232 contamination comes from the use of
reprocessed uranium.  South African and Pakistani HEU is produced
from virgin uranium and should contain no U-232.  Our thanks to
Steve Fetter for educating us on the realities of life in 2002.

3. WHERE NOW?  SLAKEY COMPLETES THE ASCENT OF THE SEVEN SUMMITS.
Physicist Francis Slakey, our colleague in the Washington Office
of the APS, has returned from his 12 Aug 02 summit of Carstenz
Pyramid, Irian Jaya, Indonesia, the highest peak in Oceania.  He
has now climbed the highest mountains on all seven continents,
one of only 70 climbers in history to have done so.  In that
unstable region, the obstacles of the climb paled before the
hazards of bribing his way through bands of armed civilians.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's, and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 20 15:40:56 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:36:48 -0400
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obergmann owc.com wrote:

>Please remove me from your mailing list.
>

To be removed from the mailing list, simply send a blank message to:

vortex-l-request eskimo.com

with the word 'unsubscribe' in the subject.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 20 20:08:05 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 23:01:09 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Prototype LENR-CANR bibliography open to review
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This is still a little rocky, but the prototype version of the new 
LENR-CANR bibliography of papers is open for comment here:

http://members.directvinternet.com/jedrothwell/

Select "TEST BIBLIOGRAPHY" at top of page. The third item is a mockup with 
only a few test data.

This is kind of a unique approach to presenting an index on Internet. I 
tried to make it look more like a bibliography in a paper than a computer 
database.

This is a simple set of linked HTML documents with lots of hyperlinks. No 
document is larger 246 KB, to keep loading time down. Perhaps I should make 
that ~100 KB. The documents are generated with a Pascal program that 
accesses data provided by Ed Storms. He maintains the database with a nifty 
program called "EndNote." We will provide copies of the database in EndNote 
format for downloading.

This prototype is the biggest file. We will also show a much shorter list 
of authors with papers on file. There should be ~60 papers soon -- as soon 
as I get back to doing real work.

The rest of the preparation for the LENR-CANR reopening is secretarial work 
and mindless web design, which is mostly done. I hope to go on line in a 
few more days. I would particularly welcome critiques and suggestions now.

The alphabetical list of authors is so long it is awkward. I plan to do 
something about that. There are 1,462 authors.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 21 07:46:13 2002
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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> This is still a little rocky, but the prototype version of the new
> LENR-CANR bibliography of papers is open for comment here:

Jed, the "Download" button has no color.  Programing code appears in the
reference window before it is filled by the references.  Other than that, it
looks good.

Ed

>
>
> http://members.directvinternet.com/jedrothwell/
>
> Select "TEST BIBLIOGRAPHY" at top of page. The third item is a mockup with
> only a few test data.
>
> This is kind of a unique approach to presenting an index on Internet. I
> tried to make it look more like a bibliography in a paper than a computer
> database.
>
> This is a simple set of linked HTML documents with lots of hyperlinks. No
> document is larger 246 KB, to keep loading time down. Perhaps I should make
> that ~100 KB. The documents are generated with a Pascal program that
> accesses data provided by Ed Storms. He maintains the database with a nifty
> program called "EndNote." We will provide copies of the database in EndNote
> format for downloading.
>
> This prototype is the biggest file. We will also show a much shorter list
> of authors with papers on file. There should be ~60 papers soon -- as soon
> as I get back to doing real work.
>
> The rest of the preparation for the LENR-CANR reopening is secretarial work
> and mindless web design, which is mostly done. I hope to go on line in a
> few more days. I would particularly welcome critiques and suggestions now.
>
> The alphabetical list of authors is so long it is awkward. I plan to do
> something about that. There are 1,462 authors.
>
> - Jed

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:34:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
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	Dear Bruce and People,
	
	I again thank Bruce for bringing important older texts to our
attention and allowing us to see actual page representations.
	It may help if the terms in the book can be put in context.
	This may be easier for all of us to determine if we have more of
the text on the topic than what is shown.
                                         
	It is also probably OK to mention:

 Sir Frederick William Herschel noted the action of Infrared Light in
1800.  According to some biographers he is the first.  
	I do not believe this "proves" for an instant that Herschel is the
first and it certainly bears better and more accurate investigation to
ascertain who the "first" to pin down IR may be. 
 	We can probably be fairly sure Gustav le Bon, or Gus The Good is NOT the
first to "discover" IR.....  as he lived from 1841 to 1931 and was not yet
born when Herschel when Sir Fred made his observations on the topic. 

	The study of The History and Ethics of Science and Technology
bears every bit as much caution as the study of nearly any type of
history....  
	When you link Ethics and History matters become interesting and
when you direct this pair toward the sciences and the development of
technologies then some very interesting bits come from illuminating a
series of fields of endeavor which are strongly tied to Money, Prestige
and whole campuses and big buildings and several so-called "laws" which
are adhered to some "name".
	Maybe Bruce would like to see future physics texts with entries
about the Perreault Principle.   

		with best regards,

					JH



On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> Hello Everyone!
> 
> William Reich's Vacor Tube that powered the
> "orgone motor force" and the Correa's Pulsed
> Discharge tube both required aluminum in
> their construction. I wonder if Chernetsky's
> tube also used aluminum. Here is a couple of
> pages from Le Bon's Evolution of Forces that 
> you should find interesting...
> 
> http://www.nuenergy.org/LeBonForces298to299.htm
> 
> Notice that aluminum is the most radioactive
> out of all the metals? Is this the "Y-factor" 
> that Reich was keeping a secret? 
> 
> Le Bon goes on to demonstrate an invisible light 
> that matter emits. He calls it "black light".
> We now call it infra-red light. Le Bon was the
> first to discover this wavelength of light. Was
> this the orgone radiation? Could it be that
> when a vacor tube is soaked in infra-red light 
> (orgone energy) that its aluminum plates release
> radioactive gas that is the cause of the motor
> force? This makes sense to me. How about to you?
> 
> This is probly the reason why Reich stated that 
> aluminum should not be used in the construction 
> of his orgone energy accumulators because this 
> metal releases too much nuclear radiation.
> 
> 
>        -Bruce A. Perreault
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Sell a Home for Top $
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> 
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> 
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> 
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> 
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> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 21 12:49:01 2002
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:48:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
cc: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject:  Strange test result from Moray Semiconductor
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	Dear Bruce and people,

	Again we laud Bruce for bringing new and interesting information
to light.

	Bruce:

	Can you please let us know some simple details of the experimental
set up?

	A)	Specifically:

		What is being used to measure resistance and how is the
			device connected?
		What is the range of change in resistance?
		What is the distance between the probes?
		Are the probes mechanically fixed in place?
		What are some examples of other variables the material
		  has been exposed to?

		For example an answer may be something such as: 

	The resistance is measured by a Fluke digital volt meter or DVM
model 2230 and the resistance begins at 7.78 meg ohms and changes to 7.76
meg ohms.  The finger begins 150 cm away and ends 2 mm away.

	The probes are alligator clips and are positioned 2 mm apart on a
small example of the metal 7 mm by 22 mm.

	Description of energy the material has been exposed to include:

		????

	Why is the material though to be a semiconductor?
	Can you show a photo of the experimental set up for this important
work indicating finger energy?


	________________

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> Hello All!
> 
> I have exposed the surface of a semiconductor
> that I obtained from one of the broken Moray 
> tubes to all sorts of energy, including 
> radioactivity. Non of which caused the material 
> to react except for one. When my finger approaches 
> the surface its resistance goes lower. At first I 
> thought that the reaction might be caused by heat 
> from my finger. However, when approached with a 
> lighted match-stick there is no effect at all.
> Only the energy from one of my fingers will trigger 
> the response. I have tried my arm, wrist and tongue... 
> The effect only occurs at the tips of my fingers.
> 
>         -Bruce A. Perreault
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> 
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> 
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> 
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe egroups.com
> 
> JLN Labs web site at: http://go.to/jlnlabs 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 21 14:02:46 2002
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From: "Mark Goldes" <mgoldes msn.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Strange test result from Moray Semiconductor - ZOTZ!
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:01:04 -0700
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This reminds me of a hilarious book called ZOTZ!  It was published about the 
time of WWII.  Whenever any extremity of the body of the fellow who had this 
power was aimed at anything, a powerful ray was emitted.  I'll leave to your 
imaginations the implications.

Sorry to smile at what seems like serious stuff, but it triggered memories!

Mark


>From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
>CC: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
>Subject: Strange test result from Moray Semiconductor
>Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:48:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>
>	Dear Bruce and people,
>
>	Again we laud Bruce for bringing new and interesting information
>to light.
>
>	Bruce:
>
>	Can you please let us know some simple details of the experimental
>set up?
>
>	A)	Specifically:
>
>		What is being used to measure resistance and how is the
>			device connected?
>		What is the range of change in resistance?
>		What is the distance between the probes?
>		Are the probes mechanically fixed in place?
>		What are some examples of other variables the material
>		  has been exposed to?
>
>		For example an answer may be something such as:
>
>	The resistance is measured by a Fluke digital volt meter or DVM
>model 2230 and the resistance begins at 7.78 meg ohms and changes to 7.76
>meg ohms.  The finger begins 150 cm away and ends 2 mm away.
>
>	The probes are alligator clips and are positioned 2 mm apart on a
>small example of the metal 7 mm by 22 mm.
>
>	Description of energy the material has been exposed to include:
>
>		????
>
>	Why is the material though to be a semiconductor?
>	Can you show a photo of the experimental set up for this important
>work indicating finger energy?
>
>
>	________________
>
>On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
>
> > Hello All!
> >
> > I have exposed the surface of a semiconductor
> > that I obtained from one of the broken Moray
> > tubes to all sorts of energy, including
> > radioactivity. Non of which caused the material
> > to react except for one. When my finger approaches
> > the surface its resistance goes lower. At first I
> > thought that the reaction might be caused by heat
> > from my finger. However, when approached with a
> > lighted match-stick there is no effect at all.
> > Only the energy from one of my fingers will trigger
> > the response. I have tried my arm, wrist and tongue...
> > The effect only occurs at the tips of my fingers.
> >
> >         -Bruce A. Perreault
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> > Messages archives at :
> >
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe egroups.com
> >
> > JLN Labs web site at: http://go.to/jlnlabs
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Sep 24 04:38:32 2002
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To: <Vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Relaxation Oscillator Antigravity?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:21:31 -0500
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The run-of-the-mill relaxation oscillator circuits ignore the
Vacuum Inductance (Lv) (12.57e-7 henry/meter times electrode spacing)and Capacitance
(Cv)  (8.85e-12 farad/meter times electrode spacing) between the electrodes of the gas
discharge device whether it is an Ne-2-type glow lamp, spark plug, or  carbon arc
electrodes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/arcosc.htm

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect10.htm

http://isaac.exploratorium.edu/~pauld/summer_institute/summer_day15current/Neontubes.h
tml

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/relaxo.html

The vacuum capacitance (Cv) is being charged at a rate determined by t = 377 * Cv and
the inductance  at a rate t = L/377 where 377 is the intrinsic impedance of the vacuum
(ohms).

However, when the discharge of this "LC Tank Circuit"  occurs, the capacitance Cv  is
discharged at a rate t = R * Cv   and the inductance Lv at a rate t = Lv/R where R is
the resistance of the gas discharge.

>From this it can be seen that t  = R * Cv is much shorter than t = Lv/R.

The String-Circle Particle Model suggests that the current due to Lv/377  sets up a
"Hypocharge" q' that  Time-Dilates (due to accelerated frame phenomena) to a value
q/gamma = q' (gamma = (Fes/Fg)^1/2 ) which is responsible for the gravity field
independent (oblivious) of the charge q = CV (1.6e-19 coulombs) that is responsible
for the strong force and the Electrostatic-electromagnetic forces in nature, thus any
material is transparent to this gravity field except for the k*q'^2/r^2
gravity force acting between the q' charges in the materials.

>From this conjecture it is possible that the current pulses created during discharge
of the vacuum inductance Lv between the electrodes of gas discharge devices can create
an undilated charge q' = I * t  that can attract or repel the q' of the earth's
gravity  field ( ~ 5.15e14 coulombs) with a force:

F = Fg = G*m^2/r^2 =  9e9*q'^2/r^2 where r is the radius of the earth 6.38e6 meters.

Three such relaxation oscillators spaced 120 degrees apart around the perimeter of a
spacecraft might get it off the ground along  with "flashing multi-colored lights" and
RFI Noise and all.  :-)

Regards,        Frederick







From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 08:22:02 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:16:23 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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***Contra-spin #2****

Last week a story appeared in the science press that could be construed (at
least by any good conspiracy theorist) as an attempt by authorities to put a
casual "by-the-way" kind of non-alarming spin on the fact that for the past
several months, an object that could be contrued (at least by any good
conspiracy theorist) as an extra-terrestrial vehicle of some kind has been
mysteriously "parked" in earth orbit ;-)

Officials at NASA were careful not to call it anything except "space junk" since
it is a manufactured object rather than an asteroid - and just today they are
claiming that the object, designated as "JOO2E3" is probably the long-lost third
stage of the Apollo 12 rocket that took astronauts to the moon in 1969 - in
other words, the most obvious remnant of perhaps the most important human
accomplishment of all time.

Cheers to the NASA spin doctors, at least so far (and a nice self-congratulatory
touch un mentioning Apollo 12). But there are a few little gaps in the official
story. Here are a couple. Perhaps you can think of a few more gaps in the
official spin by giving a closer reading to the story at:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55364,00.html

First, if "JOO2E3"  is just junk and not an alarming object, why waste the
valuable resources of Hubble with hours of unscheduled viewing time? And BTW,
does anyone believe that Hubble could NOT get an extremely good view of this
thing? Here is the official spin on that little problem -"Although JOO2E3 can be
seen by amateur astronomers using 8- to 10-inch telescopes, high-tech scopes
like NASA's Hubble Space Telescope couldn't conclusively identify it. The
Hubble's 2.4-meter diameter mirror is limited to capturing images of objects no
smaller than 80 meters across. J002E3 is, at best, about 30 meters across."
And, BTW what about all those CIA high tech spy telescopes - couldn't they get a
decent view - or are they too busy looking for Sadaam or Osama?

What is revealing here is what is NOT said. IF the USA has the technology to
view this object clearly from space, then we should assume that they have
already done so, given the security implications - and furthermore, if they have
done so and won't categorically state that the object is really nothing more
than "space junk" then it is at least plausible that it is something else.

Second small problem with official spin. "University of Arizona astronomers
measured the spectrum of sunlight reflected from J002E3 and found the colors
were consistent with white Titanium oxide (TiO) paint. That's the same type of
paint NASA used on Apollo moon rockets 30 years ago, according to Carl
Hergenrother, who conducted the study with colleague Robert Whiteley."

It could be only semantics or a misprint here, insofar as "titanium oxide" can
refer to both TiO and TiO2 but the two have different spectra and are different
in terms of the implications of the level of technology necessary to use
either - and it was TiO2 (rutile) that was used in NASA's paint not TiO. If the
spectrum were truly was that of TiO and not TiO2, and the TiO could be construed
as some kind of inorganic polymer or advanced ceramic (use silicon as an
analogy - quartz is stone age, Silanes are high tech) then we have a major
story.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the official spin so far is producing as many
questions as answers. At the very least, they should change the category from
"space junk" to "space treasure" - if it is indeed the most viewable remnant of
the moon landing... which for the nostalgia-prone among us was probably "our
finest hour..."

More later,

Jones Beene

BTW is there anything curiously prophetic in the name "JOO2E3" ?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 14:19:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:14:32 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: LENR-CANR.org library on line
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The library of uploads at LENR-CANR.org is back on line. Some of the files 
previously available at LENR.org are not yet available. I will add them to 
the database and prepare them soon. The feature to list by publication is 
not quite ready.

I am concerned about this ISP. Some of the downloads are slow or they have 
timed out. Perhaps that is my computer, or perhaps this is not a reliable 
ISP. I would appreciate it if people here would download several papers 
from the library and report to me if you have trouble.

It may be that some of the Acrobat .pdf files are corrupted. I will 
generate new ones in the coming weeks.

The former website, LENR.org, now produces a blank page. That's puzzling. I 
do not know why it is set that way. It might make people might think the 
library has vanished, but in any case, the library is here at 
LENR-CANR.org. It will be much improved in the coming weeks, with many more 
papers and abstracts. I think readers will enjoy the new format.

The database of publications titles was provided by Ed Storms. It is partly 
based on the titles and summaries collected by Dieter Britz. Let me express 
my appreciation to both of them.

I spent last five days rooting through the database to find duplicate paper 
titles with misspelled words, and variations such as: "McKubre, M.C.H." and 
"McKubre, M" which confused the program. There are still a few rough spots. 
I will make the entire database downloadable for people with the EndNote 
program, and in various other formats.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 14:49:40 2002
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Has ET arrived?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:02:35 -0400
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Hey Jones.

It's radio free albemuth, you silly boy!

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 15:16:26 2002
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Subject: Fwd: Book is back from the printer
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A book by Broad Band Communications, that mentions my work, is on its way to 
the market.  I tell you more after I see the advanced copy.


In a message dated 9/25/02 1:50:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sean Casteel 
writes:


> Frank,
> 
> The book for which I interviewed you earlier this year is on its way back 
> from the printer. I will be happy to have a copy sent to you if you send me 
> your snail mail address. I haven't seen the published version of the book 
> myself yet, but I hope you will be pleased with it. I look forward to 
> hearing from you and I'll talk to you later. 
> 
> Sean 


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>A book by Broad Band Communications, that mentions my work, is on its way to the market.&nbsp; I tell you more after I see the advanced copy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/25/02 1:50:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sean Casteel writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Frank,<BR>
<BR>
The book for which I interviewed you earlier this year is on its way back from the printer. I will be happy to have a copy sent to you if you send me your snail mail address. I haven't seen the published version of the book myself yet, but I hope you will be pleased with it. I look forward to hearing from you and I'll talk to you later. <BR>
<BR>
Sean </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Return-path: <SSeancasteel aol.com>
From: SSeancasteel aol.com
Full-name: SSeancasteel
Message-ID: <192.dd2f9f4.2ac35153 aol.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:50:11 EDT
Subject: Book is back from the printer
To: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577


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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Frank,

The book for which I interviewed you earlier this year is on its way back 
from the printer. I will be happy to have a copy sent to you if you send me 
your snail mail address. I haven't seen the published version of the book 
myself yet, but I hope you will be pleased with it. I look forward to hearing 
from you and I'll talk to you later. 

Sean 

--part2_c6.12575b63.2ac35153_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Frank,
<BR>
<BR>The book for which I interviewed you earlier this year is on its way back from the printer. I will be happy to have a copy sent to you if you send me your snail mail address. I haven't seen the published version of the book myself yet, but I hope you will be pleased with it. I look forward to hearing from you and I'll talk to you later. 
<BR>
<BR>Sean </FONT></HTML>

--part2_c6.12575b63.2ac35153_boundary--

--part1_c6.12575b63.2ac38e30_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 15:30:41 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:38:37 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
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Jed, both Peter's and my introduction are old copies.  I sent the corrected
copies and these should be used.  Other than that, it looks good.

Ed

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> The library of uploads at LENR-CANR.org is back on line. Some of the files
> previously available at LENR.org are not yet available. I will add them to
> the database and prepare them soon. The feature to list by publication is
> not quite ready.
>
> I am concerned about this ISP. Some of the downloads are slow or they have
> timed out. Perhaps that is my computer, or perhaps this is not a reliable
> ISP. I would appreciate it if people here would download several papers
> from the library and report to me if you have trouble.
>
> It may be that some of the Acrobat .pdf files are corrupted. I will
> generate new ones in the coming weeks.
>
> The former website, LENR.org, now produces a blank page. That's puzzling. I
> do not know why it is set that way. It might make people might think the
> library has vanished, but in any case, the library is here at
> LENR-CANR.org. It will be much improved in the coming weeks, with many more
> papers and abstracts. I think readers will enjoy the new format.
>
> The database of publications titles was provided by Ed Storms. It is partly
> based on the titles and summaries collected by Dieter Britz. Let me express
> my appreciation to both of them.
>
> I spent last five days rooting through the database to find duplicate paper
> titles with misspelled words, and variations such as: "McKubre, M.C.H." and
> "McKubre, M" which confused the program. There are still a few rough spots.
> I will make the entire database downloadable for people with the EndNote
> program, and in various other formats.
>
> - Jed

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 15:36:10 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:31:15 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
To: knagel gis.net
Cc: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>

> It's radio free albemuth, you silly boy!

> K.


Good to see that some other-worldly SF-aware tormented soul out there has a
clue... and/or recognizes a little touch of tongue-in-cheek (i.e. philish)
humor!

For everyone else, check out:
http://www.philipkdick.com/albemuth.htm

or... for the more esoterically effete sophists of the world:
http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol3/issue3/robinson.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 16:41:06 2002
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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Has ET arrived?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:54:31 -0400
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Why not, Jones?

Ferris F. Fremont is in fact, president.

The Empire has in fact, never ended.

And we all still reside deep in the black iron prison.

Try as I might, I have great difficulty seeing much humour
in Phil's writing. On the other hand, Heavens Gate? Now THAT'S FUNNY!

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:31 PM
To: knagel gis.net
Cc: vortex
Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?


From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>

> It's radio free albemuth, you silly boy!

> K.


Good to see that some other-worldly SF-aware tormented soul out there has a
clue... and/or recognizes a little touch of tongue-in-cheek (i.e. philish)
humor!

For everyone else, check out:
http://www.philipkdick.com/albemuth.htm

or... for the more esoterically effete sophists of the world:
http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol3/issue3/robinson.html


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 16:45:05 2002
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

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	Dear vo.,

	Can you read this text.

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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:42:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
cc: jlnlabs yahoogroups.com, evgray@egroups.com, nuenergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Strange test result from Moray Semiconductor
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	Dear Bruce,

	Physically what is the desription of the metal and how is it
manipulated?  Is it held in the hand?

	Have you conducted the other tests of using metal that is:

	A)	electrically isolated
	B)	electrically connected to ground
	C)	electrically connecter to yourself?

	1)	have you measure the DVM you use to find out the magnitude
and nature of the current it uses to produce its measurment?
	2)	will you describe the exact manner in which the electrical
connections are made to the sample?
	3)	have you used warm and cold conditions to alter the
behavior of the measures?

	IMPORTANT:

	Please, while describing to us how the connections are made, make
connection to the "material" and let us know the result.
	Disconnect the material and re-connect the meter... please
let us know the result.
	Please make a third connection and let us know the result.

	Repeat all the test, above, please, with the material while the
test sample ONLY is 

	a]	Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to Earth Ground

	b]	 Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to one terminal of the 
			meter

	c]	 Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to Earth Ground at 5
			volts DC above one terminal of the meter


	The currents passed through the "material" and the magnitude of
the altered currents are MINISCULE values.  Until such time as you make an
effort to PLEASE address artifact, the results are:

	A)	Not conclusive of any behavior per se other than your
immediate surroundings, as reflected by the currents you have on the
surface of your skin
	B)	Static or non time variant or slowly time variant electric
fields as reflected by your surroundings

	C)	Random electrical connection effects.

	A simple test any owner of a DIGITAL volt meter with 2000 meg ohms
scale can make to demonstrate artifact.

	1]	Use white bond typing paper of equivalent
	2]	Using graphite (also falsely known as "lead") pencil
		  draw a thin meandering line with a total area of about 1
cm square ....test with the meter at 2000 meg ohm scale until you arrive
at about 200 to 1,000 meg ohm
	3]	NOW:

		i]	take a measure, remove the connection and re
establish the connection... how close can you come to the first reading
		ii]	breathe on the paper near the connections
		iii]	wave the paper with connections around in the air
		iv]	allow the meter to remain connected for 30 minutes
				
		v]	Move the paper and connections from the location 
of the original set up, say on the table you do experiments on to:
			1]	the floor
			2]	another room
			3]	outside
			4]	a shielded enclosure
			5]	near a comb charge by combing the hair
			6]	near a color CRT of a computer or TV

	Report the stability and repeatability of the meter readings.			

	Alternatives to pencil line:

	brick
	concrete block
	concrete floor
	concrete wall
	sheet rock unpainted
	sheet rock, one side, then the other side
	dry clay

	All of these materials listed as alternatives will yield, to a
greater or lesser degree. "mysterious" and "important" readings when
approached by the hand or finger .... yet when shielded electrically.

						JH 

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> John,
> 
> Approaching the target material with any metal whether
> my finger is touching the metal or not increases the
> resistance off scale, over 2000 megs. I get an "OL"
> reading on my DVM. The only thing that brings down the
> resistance is if one of my fingers approaches the target.
> 
>        -BAP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Schnurer wrote:
> > 
> >         It looks as though it is a proximity effect.  If you want to check
> > this, use anything conductive, opaque, about the same sixe as your finder
> > and electrically connect it to you.  Bring it near the set up just as you
> > did yiur finger.  Kepp everything else the same.
> >         To test other effects of proximity, use non conductive, but
> > opaque, same but transparent.
> > 
> >         Please let me know.
> > 
> >         You should be aware the 2000 meg scale will detect the tiniest
> > field changes... and you are a big conductor.  200 megs is miniscule
> > current passing do the E = I/R canculation and to find the V (E) use
> > another high impedance meter and connect it to the leads of your meter...
> > or a scope is better, and set the meter to the 2000 meg scale.
> >         In fact, do your experiment, then connect another meter to measure
> > V (E) at THE same time as you make your measure.
> >         Few understand or even look at how the digital meters work or what
> > their "front end" is ...do you know about yours?
> > 
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> > 
> > > John,
> > >
> > > I used a Tenma DVM model no. 72-4025 bought from MCM Electronics.
> > > The leads to the semiconductor (maybe insulator), are
> > > connected to its two leads, via two 15 inch end to end plastic
> > > insulated wires that have alligator clips at their ends that are
> > > connected in series with the DVM. The probes are fixed. The closet
> > > that the leads come together is about 7 mm. The upper range averages
> > > around 400 megs on the 2000 meg scale. When my finger is about 1 mm
> > > from the surface of the target goes as low as 150 megs. This is a
> > > difference of about 250 megs. The target length = 2.5 cm. Its width = 1
> > > cm.
> > > Its thickness is very close to 1 mm. A picture can be seen at...
> > >
> > > http://www.nuenergy.org/tube_display.htm labeled "Semiconductor used in
> > > Low & Medium Capacitor Discharger Tubes".
> > >
> > >
> > >     Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Schnurer wrote:
> > > >
> > > >         Dear Bruce and people,
> > > >
> > > >         Again we laud Bruce for bringing new and interesting information
> > > > to light.
> > > >
> > > >         Bruce:
> > > >
> > > >         Can you please let us know some simple details of the experimental
> > > > set up?
> > > >
> > > >         A)      Specifically:
> > > >
> > > >                 What is being used to measure resistance and how is the
> > > >                         device connected?
> > > >                 What is the range of change in resistance?
> > > >                 What is the distance between the probes?
> > > >                 Are the probes mechanically fixed in place?
> > > >                 What are some examples of other variables the material
> > > >                   has been exposed to?
> > > >
> > > >                 For example an answer may be something such as:
> > > >
> > > >         The resistance is measured by a Fluke digital volt meter or DVM
> > > > model 2230 and the resistance begins at 7.78 meg ohms and changes to 7.76
> > > > meg ohms.  The finger begins 150 cm away and ends 2 mm away.
> > > >
> > > >         The probes are alligator clips and are positioned 2 mm apart on a
> > > > small example of the metal 7 mm by 22 mm.
> > > >
> > > >         Description of energy the material has been exposed to include:
> > > >
> > > >                 ????
> > > >
> > > >         Why is the material though to be a semiconductor?
> > > >         Can you show a photo of the experimental set up for this important
> > > > work indicating finger energy?
> > > >
> > > >         ________________
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello All!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have exposed the surface of a semiconductor
> > > > > that I obtained from one of the broken Moray
> > > > > tubes to all sorts of energy, including
> > > > > radioactivity. Non of which caused the material
> > > > > to react except for one. When my finger approaches
> > > > > the surface its resistance goes lower. At first I
> > > > > thought that the reaction might be caused by heat
> > > > > from my finger. However, when approached with a
> > > > > lighted match-stick there is no effect at all.
> > > > > Only the energy from one of my fingers will trigger
> > > > > the response. I have tried my arm, wrist and tongue...
> > > > > The effect only occurs at the tips of my fingers.
> > > > >
> > > > >         -Bruce A. Perreault
> > >
> 


--2QIIuu1gfmr8t3n-11OWxRxY9hk1iM86FHQgvig--

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:42:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
Cc: jlnlabs yahoogroups.com, evgray@egroups.com, nuenergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Strange test result from Moray Semiconductor



	Dear Bruce,

	Physically what is the desription of the metal and how is it
manipulated?  Is it held in the hand?

	Have you conducted the other tests of using metal that is:

	A)	electrically isolated
	B)	electrically connected to ground
	C)	electrically connecter to yourself?

	1)	have you measure the DVM you use to find out the magnitude
and nature of the current it uses to produce its measurment?
	2)	will you describe the exact manner in which the electrical
connections are made to the sample?
	3)	have you used warm and cold conditions to alter the
behavior of the measures?

	IMPORTANT:

	Please, while describing to us how the connections are made, make
connection to the "material" and let us know the result.
	Disconnect the material and re-connect the meter... please
let us know the result.
	Please make a third connection and let us know the result.

	Repeat all the test, above, please, with the material while the
test sample ONLY is 

	a]	Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to Earth Ground

	b]	 Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to one terminal of the 
			meter

	c]	 Shielded by Faraday Cage connected to Earth Ground at 5
			volts DC above one terminal of the meter


	The currents passed through the "material" and the magnitude of
the altered currents are MINISCULE values.  Until such time as you make an
effort to PLEASE address artifact, the results are:

	A)	Not conclusive of any behavior per se other than your
immediate surroundings, as reflected by the currents you have on the
surface of your skin
	B)	Static or non time variant or slowly time variant electric
fields as reflected by your surroundings

	C)	Random electrical connection effects.

	A simple test any owner of a DIGITAL volt meter with 2000 meg ohms
scale can make to demonstrate artifact.

	1]	Use white bond typing paper of equivalent
	2]	Using graphite (also falsely known as "lead") pencil
		  draw a thin meandering line with a total area of about 1
cm square ....test with the meter at 2000 meg ohm scale until you arrive
at about 200 to 1,000 meg ohm
	3]	NOW:

		i]	take a measure, remove the connection and re
establish the connection... how close can you come to the first reading
		ii]	breathe on the paper near the connections
		iii]	wave the paper with connections around in the air
		iv]	allow the meter to remain connected for 30 minutes
				
		v]	Move the paper and connections from the location 
of the original set up, say on the table you do experiments on to:
			1]	the floor
			2]	another room
			3]	outside
			4]	a shielded enclosure
			5]	near a comb charge by combing the hair
			6]	near a color CRT of a computer or TV

	Report the stability and repeatability of the meter readings.			

	Alternatives to pencil line:

	brick
	concrete block
	concrete floor
	concrete wall
	sheet rock unpainted
	sheet rock, one side, then the other side
	dry clay

	All of these materials listed as alternatives will yield, to a
greater or lesser degree. "mysterious" and "important" readings when
approached by the hand or finger .... yet when shielded electrically.

						JH 

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> John,
> 
> Approaching the target material with any metal whether
> my finger is touching the metal or not increases the
> resistance off scale, over 2000 megs. I get an "OL"
> reading on my DVM. The only thing that brings down the
> resistance is if one of my fingers approaches the target.
> 
>        -BAP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Schnurer wrote:
> > 
> >         It looks as though it is a proximity effect.  If you want to check
> > this, use anything conductive, opaque, about the same sixe as your finder
> > and electrically connect it to you.  Bring it near the set up just as you
> > did yiur finger.  Kepp everything else the same.
> >         To test other effects of proximity, use non conductive, but
> > opaque, same but transparent.
> > 
> >         Please let me know.
> > 
> >         You should be aware the 2000 meg scale will detect the tiniest
> > field changes... and you are a big conductor.  200 megs is miniscule
> > current passing do the E = I/R canculation and to find the V (E) use
> > another high impedance meter and connect it to the leads of your meter...
> > or a scope is better, and set the meter to the 2000 meg scale.
> >         In fact, do your experiment, then connect another meter to measure
> > V (E) at THE same time as you make your measure.
> >         Few understand or even look at how the digital meters work or what
> > their "front end" is ...do you know about yours?
> > 
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> > 
> > > John,
> > >
> > > I used a Tenma DVM model no. 72-4025 bought from MCM Electronics.
> > > The leads to the semiconductor (maybe insulator), are
> > > connected to its two leads, via two 15 inch end to end plastic
> > > insulated wires that have alligator clips at their ends that are
> > > connected in series with the DVM. The probes are fixed. The closet
> > > that the leads come together is about 7 mm. The upper range averages
> > > around 400 megs on the 2000 meg scale. When my finger is about 1 mm
> > > from the surface of the target goes as low as 150 megs. This is a
> > > difference of about 250 megs. The target length = 2.5 cm. Its width = 1
> > > cm.
> > > Its thickness is very close to 1 mm. A picture can be seen at...
> > >
> > > http://www.nuenergy.org/tube_display.htm labeled "Semiconductor used in
> > > Low & Medium Capacitor Discharger Tubes".
> > >
> > >
> > >     Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Schnurer wrote:
> > > >
> > > >         Dear Bruce and people,
> > > >
> > > >         Again we laud Bruce for bringing new and interesting information
> > > > to light.
> > > >
> > > >         Bruce:
> > > >
> > > >         Can you please let us know some simple details of the experimental
> > > > set up?
> > > >
> > > >         A)      Specifically:
> > > >
> > > >                 What is being used to measure resistance and how is the
> > > >                         device connected?
> > > >                 What is the range of change in resistance?
> > > >                 What is the distance between the probes?
> > > >                 Are the probes mechanically fixed in place?
> > > >                 What are some examples of other variables the material
> > > >                   has been exposed to?
> > > >
> > > >                 For example an answer may be something such as:
> > > >
> > > >         The resistance is measured by a Fluke digital volt meter or DVM
> > > > model 2230 and the resistance begins at 7.78 meg ohms and changes to 7.76
> > > > meg ohms.  The finger begins 150 cm away and ends 2 mm away.
> > > >
> > > >         The probes are alligator clips and are positioned 2 mm apart on a
> > > > small example of the metal 7 mm by 22 mm.
> > > >
> > > >         Description of energy the material has been exposed to include:
> > > >
> > > >                 ????
> > > >
> > > >         Why is the material though to be a semiconductor?
> > > >         Can you show a photo of the experimental set up for this important
> > > > work indicating finger energy?
> > > >
> > > >         ________________
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello All!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have exposed the surface of a semiconductor
> > > > > that I obtained from one of the broken Moray
> > > > > tubes to all sorts of energy, including
> > > > > radioactivity. Non of which caused the material
> > > > > to react except for one. When my finger approaches
> > > > > the surface its resistance goes lower. At first I
> > > > > thought that the reaction might be caused by heat
> > > > > from my finger. However, when approached with a
> > > > > lighted match-stick there is no effect at all.
> > > > > Only the energy from one of my fingers will trigger
> > > > > the response. I have tried my arm, wrist and tongue...
> > > > > The effect only occurs at the tips of my fingers.
> > > > >
> > > > >         -Bruce A. Perreault
> > >
> 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Sep 25 18:23:54 2002
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: A question to Bruce 
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:31:12 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy cyberportal.net>
To: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
Subject: A question to Bruce

John,
This is Don Smith...
http://ionvalve.com/iw/2002/smith.htm
    -BAP

John Schnurer wrote:
>         Who is Don Smith?  What is his patent number.
>         Please.
> 
>                                         JH
> 
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> > Zoltan,
> >
> > I really that that Don should answer questions
> > that are directed at his device.
> >
> > For me, I will be disclosing my latest findings
> > on the radiant energy device. I will show that
> > anyone can build a device using off the shelf
> > parts. My special components make the device
> > run with extreme efficiency. There is no reason
> > why the average experimenter can't build a crude
> > working prototype.
> >
> >       -BAP
> > Zoltan Bihari wrote:
> > >
> > >  Hi Bruce, do You know when will be avaiable Don Smith`s patent on
> > >  his gaseous tube device ? I collected all infos on this and now
> > >  trying to build it. Very simple and very powerful device... I hope
> > >  I`ll have success... :-))) I wait the conference so much, for more
> > >  info on this device... Mr. Smith will give all details to public ?
> > >  It will be a great thing ! Will You show some new things, too, right ?
> > >  Bye, and I wish the bests,
> > >
> > >                                             Zoltan

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 26 16:43:52 2002
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Jones Beene wrote:

>From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
>
>  
>
>>It's radio free albemuth, you silly boy!
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>K.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Good to see that some other-worldly SF-aware tormented soul out there has a
>clue... and/or recognizes a little touch of tongue-in-cheek (i.e. philish)
>humor!
>

If we find it is VALIS, we'll be biting those tongues!

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Sep 26 17:01:45 2002
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:41:05 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
To: knagel gis.net
References: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEGLDFAA.knagel gis.net>



Keith Nagel wrote:

>And we all still reside deep in the black iron prison.
>

Since 70 AD when the Bent One silenced this planet.

Terry



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 27 13:33:07 2002
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	Dear Terry,

	is the bent one the person who helps write the Inquirer and
questions for Oprah?

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Terry Blanton wrote:

> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Has ET arrived?
> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:41:05 -0400
> From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
> To: knagel gis.net
> References: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEGLDFAA.knagel gis.net>
> 
> 
> 
> Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> >And we all still reside deep in the black iron prison.
> >
> 
> Since 70 AD when the Bent One silenced this planet.
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 27 14:35:41 2002
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John Schnurer wrote:

>	Dear Terry,
>
>	is the bent one the person who helps write the Inquirer and
>questions for Oprah?
>  
>

<g>

 From "Out of a Silent Planet" by CS Lewis.  Considering Lewis' 
Christocentric writings, I believe the Bent One is the Fallen Angel, 
Lucifer.

Terry

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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
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Still talking sci-fi...  Right?


--- Terry Blanton <blantont rtpatlanta.com> wrote:
> John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> >	Dear Terry,
> >
> >	is the bent one the person who helps write the Inquirer and
> >questions for Oprah?
> >  
> >
> 
> <g>
> 
>  From "Out of a Silent Planet" by CS Lewis.  Considering Lewis' 
> Christocentric writings, I believe the Bent One is the Fallen Angel, 
> Lucifer.
> 
> Terry
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 27 18:36:00 2002
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Sep 27, 2002
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:22:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW  Robert L. Park  Friday, 27 Sep 02  FENWICK ISLAND, DE

NOTE: Thousands of hopelessly misinformed activists descended on
Washington, DC today vowing, as they do each year, to disrupt the
annual meeting of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. 
The APS Washington Office is closed as a precaution.  

1. MISCONDUCT: SHOEN INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE FINDS FABRICATION. 
A committee appointed by Bell Labs to investigate allegations of
falsified data in papers on which Jan Hendrik Shoen was the lead
author, confirmed the worst fears of the physics community.  The
Committee, chaired by Malcolm Beasley, concluded it was "a clear,
unambiguous case of scientific misconduct."  The panel cleared
Shoen's coauthors of scientific misconduct, but concluded, that
"by virtue of their coauthorship, they implicitly endorsed the
validity of the work.  There is no implication here of scientific
misconduct; the issue is one of professional responsibility." 
The panel noted that this difficult issue has not been carefully
considered by the scientific community.  It will certainly be
considered now.  Victor Ninov had as many as 15 coauthors in his
fabricated work on super-heavy elements (WN 19 Jul 02).

2. THE QUESTION: WHY WOULD A BRIGHT, RESPECTED SCIENTIST DO THIS?
In a prepared statement, Schoen said he believes his discoveries
are real.  He is not the first scientist to attempt to anticipate
what Nature will do.  Nor is he the first to go into denial if
the experiment shows that Nature has something else in mind.  

3. ISS: RUSSIA WANTS TO MOTHBALL THE SPACE STATION.  Just last
week, WN reported that a National Research Council panel, The
Task Group on Research on the International Space Station, had
raised serious questions about the value of continuing research
on the ISS (WN 20 Sep 02).  On Wednesday, it was disclosed that a
top Russian space official, Valeri Riumin, had written his NASA
counterpart, Bill Gerstenmaier, to propose mothballing the ISS to
save money.  Riumin called the situation "desperate."  It seems
there will never be enough celebrity tourists to make ISS pay.
Russia, of course, has experience, having mothballed Mir for more
than a year.  It looks like a plan the US should embrace.  From a
political standpoint, it's not quite the same as scrapping it.

4. INTELLIGENT DESIGN: NATIONAL ACADEMY JOINS COBB COUNTY FRAY. 
In Cobb County, Georgia, as elsewhere, religious fundamentalists
failed to get creationism taught in the schools, so they said it
was really "creation science."  When that failed, they pushed for
its thinly disguised twin, intelligent design.  They persuaded
the Cobb County School Board to adopt a sticker for high school
science textbooks: " Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding
the origin of living things." Bruce Alberts urged Academy members
in Georgia to lobby the Cobb Board to remove the disclaimer. 

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Sep 27 20:29:37 2002
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Has ET arrived?]
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I thought the "bent one" was Kokopelli, the little bent over flute-dude.

R.

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Rick Monteverde wrote:

>I thought the "bent one" was Kokopelli, the little bent over flute-dude.
>
>R.
>
>
>  
>
That's a flute? <g>

He's the fertility dude with the eternal bad hair day, right?

Terry


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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:53:29 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C266CC.844A0440
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
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OOPS!

The few remaining "doves" out there, amongst the vast "kettle" of hawks =
in Washington (Bush being the kettle-meister) had been hoping that this =
kind of thing just couldn't happen - that there were good international =
controls on this stuff - BTW, if this story is accurate - this amount =
seems to be just about enough to build a small bomb, "small" as in =
adequate to take out lower Manhattan.

This could be all the incentive Bush needs to invade.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/nm/20020928/ts_nm/turk=
ey_uranium_dc_3

"Captured weapons-grade uranium weighing more than 33 pounds is on =
display at the paramilitary police headquarters of southeast province of =
Sanliurfa, Turkey, September 28, 2002. Turkish gendarmes seized the =
uranium and detained two men accused of smuggling the material, =
Anatolian Agency said. Authorities believe the uranium came from an =
eastern European country and has a value about $5 million. (Anatolian =
via Reuters)"

Wonder how many of these shipments didn't get stopped?

If you think the stock market has reached the bottom now, just wait till =
Monday...
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C266CC.844A0440
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4916.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>OOPS!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The few remaining "doves" out there, amongst the vast "kettle" of =
hawks in=20
Washington (Bush being the kettle-meister)&nbsp;had been hoping that =
this kind=20
of thing just couldn't happen - that&nbsp;there were good international =
controls=20
on this stuff - BTW, if this story is accurate - this&nbsp;amount seems =
to=20
be&nbsp;just about&nbsp;enough to build a small bomb, "small" as in =
adequate to=20
take out lower Manhattan.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This could be all the incentive Bush needs to invade.</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&amp;u=3D/nm/2002092=
8/ts_nm/turkey_uranium_dc_3">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstor=
y&amp;u=3D/nm/20020928/ts_nm/turkey_uranium_dc_3</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"Captured weapons-grade uranium weighing more than 33 pounds is on =
display=20
at the paramilitary police headquarters of southeast province of =
Sanliurfa,=20
Turkey, September 28, 2002. Turkish gendarmes seized the uranium and =
detained=20
two men accused of smuggling the material, Anatolian Agency said. =
Authorities=20
believe the uranium came from an eastern European country and has a =
value about=20
$5 million. (Anatolian via Reuters)"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Wonder how many of these shipments didn't get stopped?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If you think the stock market has reached the bottom now, just wait =
till=20
Monday...</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C266CC.844A0440--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 28 14:39:30 2002
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References: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020927163141.27127B-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
 <3D94CF5A.2020101 rtpatlanta.com> <v04210102b9bad09559a7@[192.168.123.4]>
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Well if it's not a flute, then his hair should be the least of his worries!

>That's a flute? <g>
>
>He's the fertility dude with the eternal bad hair day, right?
>
>Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 28 15:57:39 2002
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Jones Beene wrote:

> OOPS!
>  
> The few remaining "doves" out there, amongst the vast "kettle" of 
> hawks in Washington (Bush being the kettle-meister) had been hoping 
> that this kind of thing just couldn't happen - that there were good 
> international controls on this stuff - BTW, if this story is accurate 
> - this amount seems to be just about enough to build a small bomb, 
> "small" as in adequate to take out lower Manhattan.
>  
> This could be all the incentive Bush needs to invade.
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020928/ts_nm/turkey_uranium_dc_3 
> <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020928/ts_nm/turkey_uranium_dc_3>
>  
> "Captured weapons-grade uranium weighing more than 33 pounds is on 
> display at the paramilitary police headquarters of southeast province 
> of Sanliurfa, Turkey, September 28, 2002. Turkish gendarmes seized the 
> uranium and detained two men accused of smuggling the material, 
> Anatolian Agency said. Authorities believe the uranium came from an 
> eastern European country and has a value about $5 million. (Anatolian 
> via Reuters)"
>  
> Wonder how many of these shipments didn't get stopped?
>  
> If you think the stock market has reached the bottom now, just wait 
> till Monday...


What is truly interesting is that the article claims that the U came 
from a "Eastern European Country:"

But if you look carerully on the bottom left of the ingot (you need the 
enlarged image or the one presently on drudgereport.com), it clearly 
says "Made in W Germany."  WTF is going on here?

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 28 16:29:37 2002
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:26:56 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:56:55 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>What is truly interesting is that the article claims that the U came 
>from a "Eastern European Country:"
>
>But if you look carerully on the bottom left of the ingot (you need the 
>enlarged image or the one presently on drudgereport.com), it clearly 
>says "Made in W Germany."  WTF is going on here?
>
>Terry

It's clearly a plant designed to both build a case for military intervention,
and concurrently put the blame on Germany, as retaliation for being such a vocal opponent. In fact it may not even be weapons grade uranium, just something that looks the part, and conveniently gets that label stuck on it for the sake of the press (corrupt officials are not unknown in Turkey ;).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Sep 28 18:26:21 2002
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Has ET arrived?]
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--- Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com> wrote:
> Well if it's not a flute, then his hair should be the least of his
> worries!
> 


ZEE....   CRASH ! !

Damn!

There goes the wheels out from under my chair again.


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep 29 17:57:35 2002
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Fusion powered tornados?

http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep 29 20:52:03 2002
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
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--- Terry Blanton <blantont rtpatlanta.com> wrote:
> Fusion powered tornados?
> 
> http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/
> 
> Terry
> 

Terry:

This is interesting but....

There is no evidence of diferential chargine in the tornado vortex. 
Tornados leave a path of destruction that is explainable using only only
the wind dynamics.  Maybe this UK auther could use some time in the
centrial plains...

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Sep 29 22:37:36 2002
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Message-ID: <3D97E333.A48F3ECE verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:37:55 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Images with bad paths like

  http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/fusion/..\..\..\Inetpub\wwwroot\tornado\vortexcharge.jpg

can be seen when corrected as

  http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/tornado/vortexcharge.jpg

Regards,

hamdi ucar

Terry Blanton wrote:
> 
> Fusion powered tornados?
> 
> http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/
> 
> Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 30 10:14:45 2002
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Here is another charged vortex device, that uses rotating magnetic fields has more technical details.
http://www.l-s.org/magvid.html


At 20:56 2002/9/29 -0400, you wrote:
>Fusion powered tornados?
>
>http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/
>
>Terry
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 30 20:10:31 2002
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:21:54 -0400
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Well well well.

We went from 35 pounds, to 5 ounces.

Now, it's revealed to be zinc.

The phony uranium scam has been going on since the collapse
of the SU, and much like the nigerian scam, continues to
suck people in. It's just wonderfully ironic that the primary
force standing between nuclear terrorists and a smoldering
hole where my house was, is the Russian Mafia. That, and
some clever european spooks who also run these scams to catch
buyers.

Actually, if you want to know where Saddam shops when he's
in the mood for mass extermination with bio and chem weapons,
look no further than the USA.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak26.html

Plus, we provided satellite imaging and battle planning
for rapid deployment of those same weapons.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/807688.asp


K.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:27 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq


In reply to  Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:56:55 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>What is truly interesting is that the article claims that the U came
>from a "Eastern European Country:"
>
>But if you look carerully on the bottom left of the ingot (you need the
>enlarged image or the one presently on drudgereport.com), it clearly
>says "Made in W Germany."  WTF is going on here?
>
>Terry

It's clearly a plant designed to both build a case for military
intervention,
and concurrently put the blame on Germany, as retaliation for being such a
vocal opponent. In fact it may not even be weapons grade uranium, just
something that looks the part, and conveniently gets that label stuck on it
for the sake of the press (corrupt officials are not unknown in Turkey ;).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 30 20:17:44 2002
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Hi All.

I can't say much about the link below, but I've built
similar circuits in the RF region to generate electromagnetic
scroll waves. It's pretty easy to do, I used four 1/4 wave antennas
and transmission line to generate the appropriate phase
delay. To make a short story shorter, it worked just fine.
I always wanted to do the same thing with some real
power, but never got around to it. Perhaps one of you
bright people can tell me what you'd look for by way
of anomalous effects, besides teleporting to some other
dimension? Something a little more tractable. At the time,
I was looking for aether effects.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Horace [mailto:blutransform wp.pl]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:06 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Charged Sheath Vortex



Here is another charged vortex device, that uses rotating magnetic fields
has more technical details.
http://www.l-s.org/magvid.html


At 20:56 2002/9/29 -0400, you wrote:
>Fusion powered tornados?
>
>http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/
>
>Terry
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Sep 30 21:12:20 2002
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From: "Patrick Dowland" <patrick_dowland hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: New publications on the Aetherometry website (fwd)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 00:09:22 -0400
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                       AKRONOS Publishing, at

                    http://www.aetherometry.com

has the pleasure to announce the publication of the following new texts
on its website:

1.  ABRI Monograph AS2-27:
    Correa, P, Correa, A & Askanas, M
    "Atmospheric electricity, latent heat, and ambipolar radiation:
    a new view of geophysics and meteorology, challenging the primacy
    of ionization theory"

    This monograph compares and contrasts two views of atmospheric
    physics: one based upon ionization theory, the other upon
    Aetherometry.  It also reviews the impact of Vol.s 1 and 2 of
    Experimental Aetherometry upon a reformulation of basic geophysical
    and atmospheric processes.

    The full abstract is available at
    http://www.aetherometry.com/abs-AS2v4.html#abstractAS2-27


2.  A set of two new interviews with Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
    conducted at ABRI in the Spring of 2002:

    "BECOMINGS ON THE SIDELINES OF A VICARIOUS FUTURE:
    The Spring 2002 Conversations at ABRI"
    http://www.aetherometry.com/abri_int2.html

    The conversations range over a wide landscape of topics, including
    the discovery and identification of the electric Aether, the global
    state, the politics of energy and of science, the debacle of the
    left, the journey from the molecular to the aetherometric, and 9/11
    and its consequences.


3.  A collection of responses we have received, or come across,
    to the Correas' deconstruction of James DeMeo et al's Pulse of
    the Planet #5 - published here in keeping with AKRONOS' policy of
    openly demystifying the record, and for the pleasure of our readers:

    "Fallout from the Challenge to Pulse of the Planet #5"
    http://www.aetherometry.com/PP5_fallout.html



Yours,

Laura McFinlay
Akronos Publishing




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:05:08 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:21:54 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

...and you don't find "The two men arrested with the material were released due to lack of evidence and have since disappeared, Dilek said." at all suspicious?

My take: They have done their job, and they have now been sent home.
Russian mafia don't generally call ahead to the Turkish police to tell them where to look. It isn't a good way to keep your clients. OTOH someone setting up a public relations stunt does exactly that.
Speculation on a possible fraud by an ex UN official maintains plausible deniability.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

>Well well well.
>
>We went from 35 pounds, to 5 ounces.
>
>Now, it's revealed to be zinc.
>
>The phony uranium scam has been going on since the collapse
>of the SU, and much like the nigerian scam, continues to
>suck people in. It's just wonderfully ironic that the primary
>force standing between nuclear terrorists and a smoldering
>hole where my house was, is the Russian Mafia. That, and
>some clever european spooks who also run these scams to catch
>buyers.
>
>Actually, if you want to know where Saddam shops when he's
>in the mood for mass extermination with bio and chem weapons,
>look no further than the USA.
>
>http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak26.html
>
>Plus, we provided satellite imaging and battle planning
>for rapid deployment of those same weapons.
>
>http://www.msnbc.com/news/807688.asp
>
>
>K.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au]
>Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:27 PM
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: Weapons-grade uranium headed to Iraq
>
>
>In reply to  Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:56:55 -0400:
>Hi,
>[snip]
>>What is truly interesting is that the article claims that the U came
>>from a "Eastern European Country:"
>>
>>But if you look carerully on the bottom left of the ingot (you need the
>>enlarged image or the one presently on drudgereport.com), it clearly
>>says "Made in W Germany."  WTF is going on here?
>>
>>Terry
>
>It's clearly a plant designed to both build a case for military
>intervention,
>and concurrently put the blame on Germany, as retaliation for being such a
>vocal opponent. In fact it may not even be weapons grade uranium, just
>something that looks the part, and conveniently gets that label stuck on it
>for the sake of the press (corrupt officials are not unknown in Turkey ;).
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
>
>Competition provides the motivation,
>Cooperation provides the means.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.
