From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 01:41:58 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03563;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 01:38:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 01:38:48 -0700
Message-ID: <007e01c1f0eb$aedec3a0$5c8f209a ggrf30j>
From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: fuel cell scooter
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:39:12 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"FGGem2.0.Xt.Ncwpy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46962
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gnorts,
           Here's a press release about a hydrogen powered 3kw fuel cell
scooter.

Nick

_____________________________________________________________
<<Manhattan Scientifics and Aprilia Unveil New Fuel Cell Powered Concept
Scooter at Paris Fair

4/30/2002 10:31:00 AM

LOS ALAMOS, N.M., Apr 30, 2002 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ --
Manhattan Scientifics, Inc. (MHTX), a U.S. technology development company
specializing in alternative energy, and Aprilia, Europe's second largest two
wheel vehicle manufacturer, unveiled a new fuel cell powered scooter today
at the International Paris Fair.

The scooter is an environmentally friendly electric concept vehicle called
"MOJITO FC." Powered by Manhattan Scientifics' new 3000 watt fuel cell, the
scooter is silent, pollution-free and ideal for urban use. Fueled by
hydrogen, production models should be capable of covering 120 miles with a
single fueling at a top speed of at least 35 miles an hour.

The MOJITO FC is the second Aprilia fuel cell powered concept vehicle
developed with Manhattan Scientifics. The two companies previously developed
the Aprilia ENJOY FC, a concept fuel cell powered bicycle. In 2001, the
ENJOY FC bicycle received strong international press coverage and received
one of Time Magazine's 2001 "Inventions of the Year" awards.

Manhattan Scientifics developed the vehicles with Aprilia to interest
manufacturers and other parties in the advantages of fuel cell powered
personal transportation. The company believes that in production, the fuel
cell scooter will be highly competitive with and have many advantages over
battery and gasoline powered scooters.

The new scooter uses Manhattan Scientifics' proprietary fuel cell technology
developed by its German unit, NovArs GmbH. The fuel cell is a hydrogen/air
system using advanced materials and unique technologies to minimize size and
weight. The system operates under ambient conditions without additional
ancillary equipment such as pumps or special cooling. The fuel cell system,
including all electronics, valves and fans, weighs slightly less than 6 kg.
The weight of the fuel vessel is only 4.3 kg.

Manhattan Scientifics believes fuel cell scooters with optimized drive
systems will achieve a higher top speed and quicker acceleration than
current vehicles with 50 and 80 cc internal combustion engines. In addition,
with an integrated fuel supply, the scooter should provide at least twice
the range of a battery driven vehicle on a single fueling.

Manhattan Scientifics' Chief Operating Officer Jack Harrod said, "This fuel
cell powered scooter is a continuation of our efforts to introduce
practical, alternative energy power for personal transportation. There are
an estimated 100 million motorized two-wheel vehicles in use worldwide with
the greatest number concentrated in the crowded cities of Asia. Global
scooter production exceeds 17 million units annually and use is expanding.
Pollution and noise are major problems in crowded cities particularly in
Asia. In year 2000, an estimated 10 million noisy, polluting scooters were
sold in China and 3 million in India. We believe our non-polluting fuel cell
scooter could play an important role in helping to alleviate these
conditions."

CEO Marvin Maslow said, "We believe our NovArs technology sets the benchmark
as the smallest size and lightest weight engine in the budding fuel cell
industry. This means our patented engine has particular application with
portables -- everything from laptop computers to power tools to bicycles,
scooters, golf carts, wheelchairs, and small boats. Imagine driving the new
MOJITO scooter in total silence for 120 miles on a single fueling of
inexpensive hydrogen."

Maslow added, "Industry experts believe it might be a decade before we see
true mass production and mass purchased fuel cell cars on our roads. But
this need not be true for other smaller forms of fuel-cell-driven personal
transportation, which are expected to play a significant role in the near
term for "people moving." This has particular significance today with our
emphasis on lessening our dependence on foreign imported oil. We are
entering the hydrogen age. Hydrogen is the basic source of energy in the
universe. The sun is fueled by hydrogen and our oceans contain a virtually
inexhaustible supply of it. Eventually hydrogen will become a readily
available inexpensive fuel and we will use it to power our homes, our
transportation, our offices and our factories."

Images of the MOJITO FC scooter may be found at the website
www.hawkassociates.com/mhtx/photos.htm

An investment profile on Manhattan Scientifics may be found on the website
www.hawkassociates.com/mhtx/profile.htm

Manhattan Scientifics, Inc. is a technology development company working in
the fields of alternative energy and fuel cells and on commercial
applications for touch technology. The company's development laboratories
are located in Los Alamos and Albuquerque, New Mexico and Passau, Germany.
Its executive facility is located in New York City. Copies of Manhattan
Scientifics' press releases, current quotes, stock charts and other
information for investors may be found on the websites www.mhtx.com and
www.hawkassociates.com.

The foregoing press release contains forward-looking statements, including
statements regarding the company's expectation of its future business. These
forward-looking statements are based largely on the company's expectations
and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, certain of which are
beyond the company's control. Actual results could differ materially from
these forward-looking statements as a result of a variety of factors. These
include but are not limited to, successfully completing the research and
development with respect to the fuel cells and other technologies,
successfully commercializing the fuel cells for mass production,
successfully protecting the company's patents, and effective significant
industry competition from various entities whose capabilities far exceeds
the company's. In light of these risks and uncertainties there can be no
assurances that the forward-looking statements in this press release will in
fact transpire or prove to be accurate.

    Executive Contacts:    Jack Harrod, COO, Manhattan Scientifics (214)
675-8033.    Email: harrod airmail.net    Marvin Maslow, CEO, Manhattan
Scientifics (917) 923-3300.    Email: maslow ix.netcom.com    Investor
Relations Contact:    Frank Hawkins, (Hawk Associates) (305) 852-2383
Email: Info hawkassociates.com                    MAKE YOUR OPINION COUNT -
Click Here>>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 03:13:56 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA08011;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 03:09:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 03:09:58 -0700
Sender: hoyt eskimo.com
Message-ID: <3CCFBEC8.4BBD6008 cox.net>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 03:09:12 -0700
From: "Hoyt A. Stearns Jr." <hoyt-stearns cox.net>
Organization: ISUS
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7-10 i686)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Waste heat refrigeration?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430113949.031bd2e0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <m2vucu47si8qs9ctqnhijjtkeuv5f7ogfv@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"7ZflX.0.2z1.sxxpy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46963
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Also look at :

http://www.icgti.org/open/mplace/albers/equip1.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:12:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21738;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:09:50 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:09:50 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMGEFGDDAA.knagel gis.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501065901.26809B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"6PU611.0.VJ5.kS_py" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46964
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



 The patent office gives patents for ideas. They do not check or verify
that those ideas actually work in practice. So pointing to a pattent as
proof that a claim is valid is invalid.

 I've never seen a perpetual motion machine of the third kind (makes
more energy than it uses). If I was sufficently anal, I might check this
out in depth, as this law of physics simply means it has never been
observed before. But, I'm not. It is sufficent for me that they never are
self sustaining. 

 I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explaination of how the
MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE. Bearden himself says he
has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
he isn't going to reveal what that is. That makes the whole point of
replication academic, doesn't it? How can you claim to replicate when the
founder of the effect says that he has never told anyone what the device
is. 



On Wed, 1 May 2002, Keith Nagel wrote:

> Hi Jon.
> 
> I've seen the same thing with my TDS 360, the math function doesn't
> produce accurate results VS manually calculating the power from the
> source current and voltage signals. I've got a pretty good idea
> why this is so, if Tek is interested send them my way.
> 
> That said, making accurate measurements at the high impedences found
> in these types of circuits is a challenge. If the energy is there,
> than a self sustaining circuit should be forthcoming. I suspect that's
> what the funding is about...
> 
> As I remember Jon, you tried the configuration shown in the patent.
> Did it seem promising?
> 
> K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Flickinger [mailto:jonfli informatics.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:37 PM
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
> 
> 
> FWIW, I'm presently using a TEK TDS3034 in MEG research and I've found that
> the
> Math channel operates with an error of >20% as compared to manual math
> calculations with individual  waveform results. The scope is acceptably
> accurate
> on individual waveform measurements, but something is amiss when using the
> Math
> channel's capabilities. Tektronix is currently trying to figure out what the
> problem might be with my particular situation, but so far, no answer.
> 
> The THS720P was the forerunner to the TDS3000 series and it's possible that
> it's
> internal Math may also have accuracy problems. If one was to study the scope
> waveforms as published in the original paper by TB on the MEG and do a
> little
> math on the waveform data, nothing will make any sense when comparing to the
> internal math result! Judging from the scope's screen appearance, TB's group
> was
> also using a THS720P.
> 
> Jon Flickinger
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:30:55 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01864;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:29:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:29:51 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 14:29:19 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501102518.0322cab8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:29:01 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <3CCF0084.6000900 pbtta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430162525.0322edf0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"G9UY6.0.2T.Vl_py" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46966
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

>The patent is for a self-sustaining device.  Also, comments on TB's web 
>site imply that the model *is* self-sustaining . . .

Ah, I see. Are there any photographs or affidavits confirming this?


>; but, he says that confirming such a claim publically could affect their 
>fund raising efforts ($29M).

Naturally, it would affect fund raising! As things stand, they will 
probably have to struggle for 5 or 10 years to find the money, and give up 
90% of the company equity for it. On the other hand, if they were to 
demonstrate the machine publicly, and give away a few prototypes for 
evaluation under n.d.a.'s, they would have the $29 million in one month, in 
exchange for 5% of company.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:30:58 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01853;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:29:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:29:51 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 14:29:18 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:24:46 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
In-Reply-To: <007e01c1f0eb$aedec3a0$5c8f209a ggrf30j>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"x5XW91.0.tS.Ul_py" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46965
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Nick Palmer wrote:

>            Here's a press release about a hydrogen powered 3kw fuel cell
>scooter.

Yikes! 3 kW seems like too much power for a scooter. The press release says 
it goes 35 mph (56 kph). That's way too fast! Even a bicycle is scary at 
that speed, and a scooter gives you less control and less time to react to 
road conditions.

I would make it no more than 1 kW. That's more than a horsepower, the power 
level of a walking horse. That should be fast enough for urban transport. 
On the other hand, the Segway is 2.5 kW. I guess they have a speed governor.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:51:44 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11679;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:48:37 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:48:37 -0700
Message-ID: <002c01c1f138$3d6b7680$a057ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:47:15 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"W5PNd3.0.Ps2.410qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46967
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:


> Nick Palmer wrote:
>
> >            Here's a press release about a hydrogen powered 3kw fuel cell
> >scooter.
>
> Yikes! 3 kW seems like too much power for a scooter. The press release
says
> it goes 35 mph (56 kph). That's way too fast! Even a bicycle is scary at
> that speed, and a scooter gives you less control and less time to react to
> road conditions.
>
> I would make it no more than 1 kW. That's more than a horsepower, the
power
> level of a walking horse. That should be fast enough for urban transport.
> On the other hand, the Segway is 2.5 kW. I guess they have a speed
governor.

I suspect the 2.5 kW is a peak power rating to cover the demands of the
dynamic balancing capability which has to function in all kinds of
circumstances, uphill, downhill, over bumps and all the rest. There could be
a need for quite large power bursts to keep from dumping the rider.

I agree with one kW for a scooter. It would be too much for a bicycle. the
power output of a well - conditioned male is about a third horsepower, I
believe. Bicycles and scooters are very effective transducers of muscle to
motive power, and we would not want bicycle racers on the sidewalk.

The Segway interests are working with regulatory bodies for permission for
the Segway to be on sidewalks. There are objections from people who see only
the top speed capability and not its small footprint and intuitive
interface.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:52:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13727;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:52:24 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:52:24 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 14:51:49 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501104715.032309e8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:51:53 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Waste heat refrigeration?
In-Reply-To: <m2vucu47si8qs9ctqnhijjtkeuv5f7ogfv 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430113949.031bd2e0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020430113949.031bd2e0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"rKZrs2.0.KM3.d40qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46968
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dean T. Miller wrote:

>I recall reading about a unit made in (I think) Texas, and here's
>another one:
>http://www.yazakienergy.com/waterfired.htm

That one works with hot water ranging from 167 to 212 deg F (75 to 100 deg 
C). Most heat engines produce waste heat that those temperatures. This is a 
chiller, not a refrigerator. This would be a good way to provide air 
conditioning with a cogenerator.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 07:54:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14654;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 07:54:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 07:54:20 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:55:04 -0700
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B8F5770C.2620%editor infinite-energy.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430162525.0322edf0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"h9UiR.0.ra3.S60qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46969
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 4/30/02 1:28 PM, "Jed Rothwell" <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com> wrote:

> Bob:
> 
> Did you send that message to J. Naudin?
> 
> I do not know much about electricity, but I suspect that all reports of o/u
> output from electrical devices are mistakes similar to the one you
> described. Otherwise, someone would have made one of these gadgets self
> sustain.

Jed, this is a nonsense statement and it hearkens back to the same kind of
nonsense that was used against the Wright brothers. Shame on you! :).  You
may disagree with my and other reports of testimonials of the Correa's PAGD
work and self sustaining motors, but this is just a prejudice on your part.
I stand by my observations as do the handful of others who have seen and
measured their PAGD and aether motors. Now they have other devices (see
latest letters of support by me and others posted on their web site.)  One
is a perpetually spinning wheel that drives against friction with no input
power at all.  It has been spinning for months. I was there when it spun --
under my direct observation and testing -- for over a day. There is NO
mistake.  Another is a self charging capacitor circuit. Another is their
aether field meter, which has profound medical implications --as do the
aether motors themselves.

Again, there are some people, such as the Correas, who are far more
interested in science than in commercialization and "changing the world."
They have their own standards and agenda. They don't feel they owe anything
to "humanity."  They are the most wonderful people, but they just don't
happen to buy into your idea that they or we owe the world anything -- just
because they have discovered free energy and are far ahead of the Mills,
Bearden, and cold fusion community (with respect to the technical
performance of their devices). They have resurrected the line of work that
Tesla and Reich began. They have published exemplary scientific articles on
experiment and theory -- just as the cold fusion people have. Further, there
is almost no doubt in my mind that cold fusion will never be understood by
the pathetic, wrong, physics that passes for truth in textbooks today.

You may disagree vehemently with this philosophy of the Correas, but at
least acknowledge that it is an individual position which is as valid within
its own context as any other philosophy. They have a right to their own
property.  If they think that the world does not deserve this technology on
the world's own commercial terms, they are welcome to that view.  Also you
should acknowledge that you do not have enough scientific understanding to
evaluate their work and you have unfortunately and carelessly burned your
bridges with them.  For the Correas it is is science, not business first.

Blast away if you wish  :)  You're good at that, but you are still as wrong
as wrong can be.

Gene Mallove

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 08:17:06 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24826;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 08:13:56 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:13:56 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 15:13:20 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501105752.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:13:14 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Wells Replenished!
In-Reply-To: <002801c1f0a1$661779e0$6b7accd1 asus>
References: <3CCE9373.9030804 pbtta.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"vLHSH.0.o36.qO0qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46970
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

>Recommended reading: "The Deep Hot Biosphere" by Thomas Gold. Gold builds 
>a very persuasive case that the actual source of petroleum worldwide is a 
>very active biosphere some ten kilometers down and that all the oil in all 
>the wells is seepage from this source.

When Darwin published his theory, an old woman remarked, "let us hope it is 
not true, or if it is true, let us hope it does not become generally 
known." That is how I feel about Gold's theory. I hope we do not find a 
huge new supply of oil. (I also hope we do not run out abruptly.)

A great deal more oil would be bad for several reasons. The world is 
already drowning in oil pollution. Even if some wells are being 
replenished, the ones in Texas are not being replenished fast enough to 
supply the U.S., so we will continue to depend on unfriendly foreign 
nations. Huge supplies and low oil prices will inhibit research into 
cleaner alternatives. Finally, even if underground supplies of oil are 
inexhaustible, the technology for drilling, extracting and refining oil is 
not likely to improve much. It is already mature. This means the price of 
oil will not fall. Oil and gas are too expensive for poor people already, 
even in the U.S. I think the average American spends roughly 10% of his 
income on energy, roughly the same as in 1900. Essentially, we have made no 
progress. By now it should have fallen to less than 1%. The fraction of our 
income we spend on other necessities, such as food, has fallen. Only energy 
stubbornly resists progress. (The fraction of income spent on health care 
has skyrocketed, but that is because many effective new treatments were 
developed in the last century.)

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 09:23:48 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28982;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 09:20:30 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:20:30 -0700
Message-ID: <20020501161843.39429.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <002001c1f0d3$8d672f40$035accd1 asus>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"-nZHs.0.a47.EN1qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46971
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


--- Mike Carrell <mikec snip.net> wrote:
> > the current probe incorrectly or failing to compensate the
> > voltage probe or using the wrong smoothing filters or... 
> or...
> > or...
> 
> I think Charles is missing a very crucial point about the
> instrument. Using
> a non-inductive resistor to sense current, and measuring the
> voltage across
> that resistor with a totally floating voltage probe, which is
> provided by
> the instrument, and measuring the voltage across the load by
> the second
> channel, the instrument calculates the true instantaneous VI
> product for
> each sample. You don't get any better than that. It takes
> into account all
> aspects of phase differences, rise times, etc. etc. and etc.
> The true RMS is
> calculated from each sample.
> 
> Mike Carrell

Mike.  Does the system take into consideration that you are
floading 500V at 20KHz?

Ever heard of crosstalk?

Here is an idea.  Allow the current probe a ground referance. 
This will eliminate any HV noise blasting into the low voltage
lowZ current probe.  

Watch the OU effect go away.  The OU effect went away because
it was not OU it was input crosstalk.

Don't bend your left elbow on the backswing and keep your eye
on the ball.




=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:02:43 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22363;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:02:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:02:21 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 17:01:47 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501112543.032286e8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:37:44 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <B8F5770C.2620%editor infinite-energy.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430162525.0322edf0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"Qo_CK1.0.7T5.T-1qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46974
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

> > I do not know much about electricity, but I suspect that all reports of o/u
> > output from electrical devices are mistakes similar to the one you
> > described. Otherwise, someone would have made one of these gadgets self
> > sustain.
>
>Jed, this is a nonsense statement and it hearkens back to the same kind of 
>nonsense that was used against the Wright brothers.

The overhead for an electric motor is much lower than a heat engine, so it 
should be easier to make an electrical o/u device self sustain. A heat 
engine must be ~500% o/u; an electric engine can self sustain with ~110%. 
That statement is still true as far as I know, so it does not resemble the 
nonsense used against the Wrights.


>You may disagree with my and other reports of testimonials of the Correa's 
>PAGD work and self sustaining motors, but this is just a prejudice on your 
>part.

I demand independent replications and verifications for *all* claims, not 
just the Correa's, even conventional ones such as improved PVs. (PV 
performance figures are notoriously exaggerated.) I apply this standard to 
everyone. Therefore, this is not prejudice.


>One is a perpetually spinning wheel that drives against friction with no 
>input power at all.  It has been spinning for months.

People have made similar claims many times, but there has never been proper 
independent verification. Until several other people observe the same thing 
in their own laboratories, I will not believe it. I do not dismiss it 
completely, the way an s.p.f. "skeptic" would.


>I was there when it spun -- under my direct observation and testing -- for 
>over a day. There is NO mistake.

But there could easily be a hidden power supply. There has been in every 
other similar machine which was carefully investigated, as far as I know.


>Again, there are some people, such as the Correas, who are far more
>interested in science than in commercialization and "changing the world." 
>They have their own standards and agenda. They don't feel they owe 
>anything to "humanity."

But they do. Everyone does. People who do not contribute to society have no 
right to eat. Society -- meaning farmers, shopkeepers, garbage collectors, 
doctors and the rest of us -- keeps the Correas alive. If they are not 
interested in commercialization, or they do not care for money, they should 
give away the technology. Countless scientists have done that in the past, 
and earned their keep.


>They are the most wonderful people, but they just don't happen to buy into 
>your idea that they or we owe the world anything . . .

Then their parents failed to teach them the most fundamental lessons of life.


>-- just because they have discovered free energy and are far ahead of the 
>Mills, Bearden, and cold fusion community (with respect to the technical 
>performance of their devices).

I see no evidence that Mills or Bearden have anything. Mills has spent 
millions in commercial R&D without producing a product, and he has missed 
many announced deadlines. Any businessman would agree that is a strong 
warning signal that he is in deep trouble, and he cannot do what he 
claimed. Based on Bearden's letters to me last year, Mizuno and I agree he 
is probably incompetent. He does not appear to understand elementary 
physics or engineering.


>They have resurrected the line of work that Tesla and Reich began.

I do not believe Telsa or Reich either.


>They have published exemplary scientific articles on experiment and theory 
>. . .

These articles are not couched in normal scientific terminology. The 
scientists I have spoken with cannot make head or tail of them. Perhaps the 
articles are correct, but there is no way the rest of us can judge them, or 
learn from them. It would be a good idea for the Correas to try to express 
these concepts in more conventional terms. New scientific breakthroughs 
have often been expressed in older terms, even when the breakthroughs made 
the older terms obsolete. See, for example, Franklin's descriptions of 
electricity, or Dyson's restatement of Feynman's laws.


>You may disagree vehemently with this philosophy of the Correas, but at 
>least acknowledge that it is an individual position which is as valid 
>within its own context as any other philosophy.

I am not a cultural relativist. Philosophies and points of view are not all 
equally valid. Osama bin Laden, for example, is morally wrong, on an 
absolute standard in any context.


>They have a right to their own property.  If they think that the world 
>does not deserve this technology on the world's own commercial terms, they 
>are welcome to that view.

No, this is morally abhorrent. It is like withholding food when you have a 
huge surplus and thousands of people are starving. Property rights are not 
absolute. They are an artifact of society, like corporations. They are 
often revoked or overridden for larger purposes, such as emergencies. When 
your neighbor's house is on fire, your neighbor has a right to use your 
telephone and your garden hose, even though they are your property. If you 
refuse to let him use the telephone, you are guilty of depraved 
indifference to life or negligent homicide. In the laws of Massachusetts 
this is defined as, "a gross deviation from the standard of care that a 
reasonable man would exercise in the same situation." 30,000 to 50,000 
people die every week for lack of energy. Their right to survive far 
outweighs the Correa's intellectual property rights.

This situation would be a moral outrage if the Correas claims were true, 
but I do not think they are, so it is only a farce.


>Also you should acknowledge that you do not have enough scientific 
>understanding to evaluate their work . . .

Anyone with a high school level knowledge of physics can evaluate their 
work. They claim their device produces excess energy. They claim they have 
kept battery packs running indefinitely. I can understand that easily! The 
details that supposedly make it work are over my head, but they are irrelevant.


>. . . and you have unfortunately and carelessly burned your
>bridges with them.

It was not careless. It was a calculated act, the culmination of many years 
of watching them in disgust. I stand by it. There are three possibilities:

1. They are liars and they have faked their results.
2. They are insane.
3. They are morally depraved monsters who withhold vitally important 
technology.

I do not want to be associated with people in any of these categories. The 
Correas' behavior over the last decade convinces me that even if they have 
something, they will never reveal it or allow others access to it, so they 
might as well have nothing. They are tantamount to a fraud. Like Moray and 
so many others, they are determined to take this technology to the grave 
with them. They will succeed in that, and nothing else.


>For the Correas it is is science, not business first.

People who are not interested in business should give away their 
discoveries, the way J. P. Joule, Roentgen, Einstein, the engineers who 
developed the Internet and so many others have done over the centuries.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:03:24 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20305;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 09:58:35 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:58:35 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD01EB6.4040208 pbtta.com>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:58:30 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501065901.26809B-100000 eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"_IHWB.0.-y4.ww1qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46972
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Stephen Lajoie wrote:

>I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explaination of how the
>MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE. 
>
I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered 
professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims 
which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?

>Bearden himself says he
>has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
>he isn't going to reveal what that is. 
>
Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which 
the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by 
Honeywell.  You can read about it here:

http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm

TB also says that there might be better materials which could provide  a 
higher COP.

Regards,

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:04:19 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23690;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:03:57 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:03:57 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD01FF7.20605 pbtta.com>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:03:51 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430162525.0322edf0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020501102518.0322cab8@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"c9ioN.0.3o5.y_1qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46975
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Terry Blanton wrote:
>
>> The patent is for a self-sustaining device.  Also, comments on TB's 
>> web site imply that the model *is* self-sustaining . . .
>
>
> Ah, I see. Are there any photographs or affidavits confirming this? 

Savez-vous le mot "imply"?

>> ; but, he says that confirming such a claim publically could affect 
>> their fund raising efforts ($29M).
>
>
> Naturally, it would affect fund raising! As things stand, they will 
> probably have to struggle for 5 or 10 years to find the money, and 
> give up 90% of the company equity for it. On the other hand, if they 
> were to demonstrate the machine publicly, and give away a few 
> prototypes for evaluation under n.d.a.'s, they would have the $29 
> million in one month, in exchange for 5% of company. 

I guess I wasn't very clear.  Magnetic Energy, Ltd. is apparently close 
to receiving funding and further demonstrations could affect the deal, 
as I understand what TB said.

Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:04:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22325;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:02:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:02:20 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 17:01:46 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501111851.0319cbf8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:20:52 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
In-Reply-To: <002c01c1f138$3d6b7680$a057ccd1 asus>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"QufLF.0.XS5.R-1qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46973
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

>I agree with one kW for a scooter. It would be too much for a bicycle.

Electric bicycle motors are 200 to 400 watts, but they only augment the 
rider, they do not take over and push independently. The bicycles 
themselves are heavy.

See:

http://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes02.htm

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:17:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29466;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:11:36 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:11:36 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:23:49 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEFLDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
In-Reply-To: <3CD01EB6.4040208 pbtta.com>
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"EVKlq3.0.KC7.772qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46976
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi.

I agree, a careful reading of the patent shows little in conflict
with the accepted laws of physics. The patent was granted precisely
because the applicants conceded that the device is not a perpetual
motion machine but a battery. 

The promotion of the MEG is another matter entirely. It's a shame
really, there are good ideas in the MEG which are being steamrolled
by Tom's promotion and theories. This is certainly not a new
phenomena. 

Steve, please read the patent again. Also look at the prior art.

In the end, what matters is a closed loop device. If MEL delivers
then all argument ceases, as Jed rightly points out. That they
haven't as yet is cause for contemplation, yes?

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont pbtta.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:59 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?


Stephen Lajoie wrote:

>I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explaination of how the
>MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE. 
>
I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered 
professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims 
which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?

>Bearden himself says he
>has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
>he isn't going to reveal what that is. 
>
Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which 
the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by 
Honeywell.  You can read about it here:

http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm

TB also says that there might be better materials which could provide  a 
higher COP.

Regards,

Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:48:05 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20835;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:47:02 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:47:02 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 17:46:24 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501132839.0324ce70 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:46:19 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
In-Reply-To: <002c01c1f138$3d6b7680$a057ccd1 asus>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"2ePdn3.0.N55.Le2qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46978
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

>The Segway interests are working with regulatory bodies for permission for 
>the Segway to be on sidewalks. There are objections from people who see 
>only the top speed capability and not its small footprint and intuitive 
>interface.

The speed is the only reasonable objection to use on the sidewalks. I think 
it should be limited to 6 or 8 mph for sidewalk use. This is about as fast 
as most joggers run. Many other vehicles are allowed on sidewalks, such as 
motorized wheelchairs, shopping carts and strollers. The Segway has a 
smaller footprint than these, it is more maneuverable, and when you run 
over someone's foot it does not hurt. Kamen demonstrated this in Atlanta by 
deliberately running over the reporter's foot. So, apart from concerns 
about speed, it is well-suited for use on sidewalks.

I would install a "sidewalk mode" switch on the Segway, which limits speed. 
If a rider causes an accident with a Segway at the higher "road mode" 
speed, the police should give him a ticket. They ticket bicycle riders who 
cause accidents and run stop signs.

In downtown Atlanta the police are patrolling with Segways. The police 
should be allowed to ride them at top speed if necessary! Police mounted on 
bicycles can outrun any criminal fleeing on foot. With practice they can 
ride up or down staircases.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 10:52:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18383;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 10:44:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:44:21 -0700
Message-ID: <20020501174415.87260.qmail web11205.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:44:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors? Burden of proof
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <002001c1f0d3$8d672f40$035accd1 asus>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"-KTjd.0.6V4.qb2qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46977
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At this point there is little left to say about the
measurements.  I believe that you are not using the instruments
correctly and there is not much you can say to convince me
otherwise.  It is not my responsibility to teach you how to
measure power.  Since I have a century of others behind me that
have been right about this I believe the burden of proof is
your responsibility.

You can ether use your resistive load to heat a thermal mass
and prove over unity through calorimetry. Or you can loop the
output back into the input and prove over unity by operating in
a self sustaining perpetual loop.  Operating the device in such
a perpetual loop is a claim you have already made.
  
Let us see this demonstration.

If this device does actually run in this mode then fund raising
will no longer be a problem.  The investors will come to you. 

  



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 11:10:05 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32634;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 11:07:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:07:51 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD02EF5.26F3748F attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:07:49 -0700
From: Bob Horst <bhorst attbi.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony}  (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
References: <3CCEEB89.63539D04 attbi.com> <004601c1f0bb$1de545c0$6b7accd1@asus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"6bgBr1.0.pz7.tx2qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46979
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

> In Bob Horst's discussion below, it would have been useful to investigate
> the capabilities of the Tektronix THS720P oscilloscope before drawing
> conclusions. This instrument is unusual and rather extraordinary. It was
> designed for field technicians to make accurate voltage, current and power
> measurements on wideband devices. It is battery operated. Naudin acquired it
> some years ago when he was studying his replication of a Newman device,
> which generates very wideband noise in the arcs. Most instruments are simply
> unable to measure this.

Mike --

The problem is not the scope, but the way the probes may interact with the
circuit.  After reading your message and others, it now seems very likely that
he used the P5102 10x probes designed for that scope (see
http://www.tektronix.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/Products/catalog/p2100/specs.html&FrameSet=accessories).

My original hypothesis may not be correct, because he probably used the same 10x
probes for both voltage and current, although the writeup does not state this
explicitly.

However, these 10x probes have other problems.  To make them high voltage, Tek
made them low impedance.  Their loading is 5 Mohms and 11.2 pf.  The burned out
resistor has about 3 Mohms of DC resistance.  So with the scope connected, DC
output loading drops from 3 M to 3M in parallel with 5M, or about 1.9 Mohms.
But the capacitance is also important.  At 20 KHz, 11.2 pf has a reactance of
just .7 Mohms. That means that the load is predominantly capacitive, and the
scope loading is way too heavy to be ignored in the analysis.

The scope has only two channels, so it looks like he measured input voltage and
current, then switched the scope to measure output voltage and current.  But
with the scope on the output, loading is much stiffer, and it would have drawn
more input current at that point.

It is very hard to do an analysis like this at a distance.  I am just trying to
point out that it is not easy to measure power and phase differences in high
impedance, high voltage circuits.  And the effect of the input loading of
measurement devices definitely should not be ignored. A measurement error seems
much more likely than aether energy.

-- Bob Horst

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 11:16:32 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06373;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 11:16:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:16:08 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 18:14:55 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501134856.0322a318 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:53:14 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <3CD01FF7.20605 pbtta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430162525.0322edf0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020501102518.0322cab8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"7KJ9P2.0.QZ1.d33qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46980
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

>>Ah, I see. Are there any photographs or affidavits confirming this?
>
>Savez-vous le mot "imply"?

Ah, so ka. Wakarimashita.


>Magnetic Energy, Ltd. is apparently close to receiving funding and further 
>demonstrations could affect the deal, as I understand what TB said.

Well okay. In that case, should the deal fall through I would recommend 
demonstrations and prototypes for evaluation under n.d.a.'s. That should be 
Plan B.

I have no moral objection to the "secret conspiracy" business strategy, but 
it never works, as far as I know. The Wrights tried it from 1905 to 1908, 
getting nowhere. I spent several years doing this in software ventures. The 
deals always fall through. The inventor cannot put pressure on investors. 
Investors left to their instincts will dither instead of acting.

Patterson (CETI) held back at PowerGen, putting on a half-baked, 
half-hidden demo with deliberately wretched instrumentation. They told me 
they were doing this because they were involved in delicate negotiations 
with Motorola, and they wanted a demonstration convincing enough to put the 
fear of God into Motorola, but not so convincing it would seriously attract 
other potential investors and customers. They did not want to attract other 
people because they feared that might trigger competition. Naturally, they 
failed at both goals. No one can fine-tune a business presentation to that 
extent! Imagine a fellow has a warehouse full of 10,000 remaindered 
widgets. Imagine he tries to write a television advertisement calibrated to 
attract 10,000 customers, not 9,000 or 11,000.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:02:23 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06313;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 12:58:57 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:58:57 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <3CD01EB6.4040208 pbtta.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501125531.15133A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"88y0x3.0.ZY1.1a4qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46981
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Terry Blanton wrote:

> Stephen Lajoie wrote:
> 
> >I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explaination of how the
> >MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE. 
> >
> I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered 
> professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims 
> which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?

Magnetic flux doesn't work the way it was explained. An EE should spot
that right off the bat. 
 
> >Bearden himself says he
> >has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
> >he isn't going to reveal what that is. 
> >
> Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which 
> the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by 
> Honeywell.  You can read about it here:
> 
> http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm

Odd that Mr. Naudin didn't use this to replicate Bearden's experiments.
 
> TB also says that there might be better materials which could provide  a 
> higher COP.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Terry
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:03:09 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08053;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:01:50 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:01:50 -0700
X-Sent: 1 May 2002 20:01:16 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501155209.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 16:00:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Advice to students from Trinity College
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"--Wi_.0.gz1.kc4qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46982
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

My daughter is attending Trinity College in Dublin for a semester. She says 
the professors and administrators have a more laid-back attitude than their 
American counterparts. The campus guidebook, for example, lists the many 
pubs on campus and notes that students like to drink. This is exam week. 
The administration circulated the following e-mail memo to the students:

THINGS TO DO DURING AN EXAM TO MANAGE ANXIETY
As soon as the instructor hands you the exam, eat it.

Do the exam with crayons, paint, or fluorescent markers.

Come into the exam wearing slippers, a bathrobe, a towel on your head, and 
nothing else.

Come in wearing a full knight's outfit, complete with sword and shield.

Bring a friend to give you a back massage throughout the exam. Insist this 
person is needed, because you have bad circulation.

Get deliveries of candy, flowers, balloons, telegrams, etc... sent to you 
every few minutes throughout the exam.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:27:52 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25486;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:27:19 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:27:19 -0700
Message-ID: <005b01c1f167$3dc60e40$1258ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <20020501161843.39429.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:19:47 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"iKkdO2.0.3E6.c-4qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46984
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


> --- Mike Carrell <mikec snip.net> wrote:
> > > the current probe incorrectly or failing to compensate the
> > > voltage probe or using the wrong smoothing filters or...
> > or...
> > > or...
> >
> > I think Charles is missing a very crucial point about the
> > instrument. Using
> > a non-inductive resistor to sense current, and measuring the
> > voltage across
> > that resistor with a totally floating voltage probe, which is
> > provided by
> > the instrument, and measuring the voltage across the load by
> > the second
> > channel, the instrument calculates the true instantaneous VI
> > product for
> > each sample. You don't get any better than that. It takes
> > into account all
> > aspects of phase differences, rise times, etc. etc. and etc.
> > The true RMS is
> > calculated from each sample.
> >
> > Mike Carrell
>
> Mike.  Does the system take into consideration that you are
> floating 500V at 20KHz?

Totally floating means totally floating. I have the user's manual which does
not include the circuit diagram, so I don't know how they arrange the
circuitry. But each input channel has its own ground and each channel can be
connected to voltage sources with separate grounds which are up to 1000 V
apart without damage to
the instrument or the operator. Each channel is sampled synchronously but
separately. It's not difficult in principle to have two input amplifiers and
samplers with optical coupling of clock and data. Power to the modules can
be conveyed by a well-insulated transformer operating a high frequencies
with shielding of all the windings.

>
> Ever heard of crosstalk?

Of course I have. I'm a EE used to working with low level signals.
>
> Here is an idea.  Allow the current probe a ground reference.
> This will eliminate any HV noise blasting into the low voltage
> lowZ current probe.
>
> Watch the OU effect go away.  The OU effect went away because
> it was not OU it was input crosstalk.

Talk to Naudin, not me. I'm not running the experiment.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:28:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26368;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:27:52 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:27:52 -0700
Message-ID: <005d01c1f167$3f35cae0$1258ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <20020501174415.87260.qmail web11205.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors? Burden of proof
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:21:57 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"XLBDi3.0.dQ6.6_4qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46985
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ford" <cjford1 yahoo.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors? Burden of proof


> At this point there is little left to say about the
> measurements.  I believe that you are not using the instruments
> correctly and there is not much you can say to convince me
> otherwise.  It is not my responsibility to teach you how to
> measure power.  Since I have a century of others behind me that
> have been right about this I believe the burden of proof is
> your responsibility.

Charles, who is this "you" you are talking to? Bearden is not here
listening. Naudin apparently reads Vortex, for his comments show up
occasionally. From what I have seen of his work over the years, he very
clearly understands how to measure power. I'm just another resident of the
peanut gallery who is interested in seeing that the conversation about
various devices is based on the real issues and not assumptions about the
instrumentation. I don't know whether Bearden is right or not, and there are
some things about Naudin's measurements that bother me. But it's not his
oscilloscope or measurements made with it.

Mike Carrell



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:28:59 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24850;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:26:03 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:26:03 -0700
Message-ID: <005e01c1f167$3fe6cb60$1258ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <3CCEEB89.63539D04 attbi.com> <004601c1f0bb$1de545c0$6b7accd1@asus> <3CD02EF5.26F3748F@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:22:55 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"nvugx1.0.C46.Qz4qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46983
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Horst" <bhorst attbi.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?


> Mike Carrell wrote:
>
> > In Bob Horst's discussion below, it would have been useful to
investigate
> > the capabilities of the Tektronix THS720P oscilloscope before drawing
> > conclusions. This instrument is unusual and rather extraordinary. It was
> > designed for field technicians to make accurate voltage, current and
power
> > measurements on wideband devices. It is battery operated. Naudin
acquired it
> > some years ago when he was studying his replication of a Newman device,
> > which generates very wideband noise in the arcs. Most instruments are
simply
> > unable to measure this.
>
> Mike --
>
> The problem is not the scope, but the way the probes may interact with the
> circuit.  After reading your message and others, it now seems very likely
that
> he used the P5102 10x probes designed for that scope (see
>
http://www.tektronix.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement
/Products/catalog/p2100/specs.html&FrameSet=accessories).
>
> My original hypothesis may not be correct, because he probably used the
same 10x
> probes for both voltage and current, although the write-up does not state
this
> explicitly.
>
> However, these 10x probes have other problems.  To make them high voltage,
Tek
> made them low impedance.  Their loading is 5 Mohms and 11.2 pf.  The
burned out
> resistor has about 3 Mohms of DC resistance.  So with the scope connected,
DC
> output loading drops from 3 M to 3M in parallel with 5M, or about 1.9
Mohms.
> But the capacitance is also important.  At 20 KHz, 11.2 pf has a reactance
of
> just .7 Mohms. That means that the load is predominantly capacitive, and
the
> scope loading is way too heavy to be ignored in the analysis.

A cogent argument. The secondary winding inductance is given as 5.7 H, which
has a reactance of about 0.7 Mohms at 20 kHz. So, neatly, the output
windings resonate with the probe capacitance. However, given the
configuration of the windings, it seems likely that there is stray
capacitance that would also produce self-resonance of the coils. Pursuing
this further, the coil inductance was probably measured under low signal
conditions without the bias of the permanent magnet, so we don't know what
the actual inductance of these windings are under the operating conditions,
given the strong saturation properties of the core material. Naudin reports
that the drive frequency has to be tuned to get a sinewave output waveform,
which suggests that the coils are in resonance, since the core material has
a nonlinear B-H characteristic.
>
> The scope has only two channels, so it looks like he measured input
voltage and
> current, then switched the scope to measure output voltage and current.
But
> with the scope on the output, loading is much stiffer, and it would have
drawn
> more input current at that point.
>
> It is very hard to do an analysis like this at a distance.  I am just
trying to
> point out that it is not easy to measure power and phase differences in
high
> impedance, high voltage circuits.  And the effect of the input loading of
> measurement devices definitely should not be ignored. A measurement error
seems
> much more likely than aether energy.

I agree that it is very difficult to correctly analyze the data given, which
is not enough to answer all doubts that can be raised. One can and should
resist paradigm shifts where there is a possibility of measurement error,
particularly in the EM-OU field, where most of the claims have been found to
be based on faulty measurements. Naudin seems to do careful work with good
instruments so I don't dismiss his findings a priori. But I have, for
example, seen the Correa PAGD in operation in his lab and the effect seems
real. I was there as a guest, not doing due diligence, so I didn't rip apart
the setup looking for hidden deceits.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:29:33 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27990;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:29:07 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:29:07 -0700
From: "Dean T. Miller" <dtmiller midiowa.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Waste heat refrigeration?
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:29:13 -0500
Organization: Miller and Associates
Message-ID: <0pj0dukh22lu043g15i949vk42cnedamv6 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430113949.031bd2e0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020430113949.031bd2e0@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <m2vucu47si8qs9ctqnhijjtkeuv5f7ogfv@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020501104715.032309e8@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501104715.032309e8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA27962
Resent-Message-ID: <"Rj2-H1.0.Cr6.I05qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46986
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 01 May 2002 10:51:53 -0400, Jed Rothwell
<jedrothwell infinite-energy.com> wrote:

>Dean T. Miller wrote:
>
>>I recall reading about a unit made in (I think) Texas, and here's
>>another one:
>>http://www.yazakienergy.com/waterfired.htm
>
>That one works with hot water ranging from 167 to 212 deg F (75 to 100 deg 
>C). Most heat engines produce waste heat that those temperatures. This is a 
>chiller, not a refrigerator. This would be a good way to provide air 
>conditioning with a cogenerator.

Notice the little burner under the "high temperature gas generator" at
the bottom left of the diagram.

Anything between hot water and high temperature sources will work with
this type of setup.

-- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:29:35 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28143;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:29:22 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:29:22 -0700
Message-ID: <005c01c1f167$3e7d2940$1258ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501065901.26809B-100000 eskimo.com> <3CD01EB6.4040208@pbtta.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:21:38 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"yI8ZG2.0.ft6.Y05qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46987
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?


> Stephen Lajoie wrote:
>
> >I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explanation of how the
> >MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE.
> >
> I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered
> professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims
> which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?
>
> >Bearden himself says he
> >has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
> >he isn't going to reveal what that is.
> >
> Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which
> the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by
> Honeywell.  You can read about it here:
>
> http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm
>
> TB also says that there might be better materials which could provide  a
> higher COP.
>

The core material and its B-H characteristics are shown on Naudin's website.
There is nothing "magical" about the material.
The significant  feature is the extremely fine crystal structure which
minimizes hysteresis and eddy current losses. The material itself does not
"extract" zero point energy from the vacuum. The high permeability and low
losses of the material essentially capture and confine the entire magnetic
flux from the permanent magnets, separating it from another energy potential
which is manipulated by the driver coils. I can't go any further than this,
for I don't really understand the ideas that Bearden is using.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:40:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01096;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:39:05 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:39:05 -0700
Message-ID: <007701c1f169$32a1a900$1258ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501125531.15133A-100000 eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:37:42 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3ZJE1.0.xG.f95qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46988
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Lajoie" <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?


> On Wed, 1 May 2002, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
> > Stephen Lajoie wrote:
> >
> > >I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explanation of how the
> > >MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE.
> > >
> > I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered
> > professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims
> > which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?
>
> Magnetic flux doesn't work the way it was explained. An EE should spot
> that right off the bat.
>
> > >Bearden himself says he
> > >has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum,
but
> > >he isn't going to reveal what that is.
> > >
> > Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which
> > the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by
> > Honeywell.  You can read about it here:
> >
> > http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm
>
> Odd that Mr. Naudin didn't use this to replicate Bearden's experiments.

Where does Stephen get this idea? It is very plainly stated in Naudin's
description of his experiment: "PowerLite cores from Honeywell, manufactured
with the METGLAS amorphous alloy". What is odd that apparently statements
are being made without reading source material.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:50:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10321;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:50:25 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:50:25 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD0550D.4020807 pbtta.com>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 16:50:21 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501125531.15133A-100000 eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"to7Sp3.0.BX2.HK5qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46989
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Stephen Lajoie wrote:

>Magnetic flux doesn't work the way it was explained. An EE should spot
>that right off the bat. 
>

Not in laminated ferrites which is all we were taught in 1975.

>Odd that Mr. Naudin didn't use this to replicate Bearden's experiments.
>

Actually, that is precisely what Naudin used:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/megv21.htm

One third down the page:  "Honeywell AMCC-320 Powerlite C-Core"

The seventh one from the bottom of the product page which I referenced 
in my previous email.

Warmest regards,

Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 13:58:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15059;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 13:57:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:57:49 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:57:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c1f167$3e7d2940$1258ccd1 asus>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501135257.17526A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"AZcib3.0.Ah3.BR5qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46990
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Mike Carrell wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
> 
> 
> > Stephen Lajoie wrote:
> >
> > >I have a lot of respect for Mr. Naudin, but his explanation of how the
> > >MEG works conflicts with what I learned as an EE.
> > >
> > I got my EE degree from Georgia Tech and I am also a registered
> > professional engineer.  I find nothing in the patent nor TB's claims
> > which conflict with what I was taught.  Could you be more specific?
> >
> > >Bearden himself says he
> > >has a magic material that extracts zero point energy from the vacuum, but
> > >he isn't going to reveal what that is.
> > >
> > Actually, he does reveal the core material of his first model on which
> > the patent is based.  It is Metglas, an off the shelf product by
> > Honeywell.  You can read about it here:
> >
> > http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_6_2_1.htm
> >
> > TB also says that there might be better materials which could provide  a
> > higher COP.
> >
> 
> The core material and its B-H characteristics are shown on Naudin's website.
> There is nothing "magical" about the material.

IIRC, that is correct and how I understood it. Further, I understand, from
Naudin's website, that Bearden says that he has a material that gets
energy from "zero point energy" of vacuum. Naudin notes that he does not
have this material. 

At this point, you have to ask yourself; if Naudin is correct, then why
does Bearden need this material? If Bearden is correct, then why does
Naudin's experiment "work". 

> The significant  feature is the extremely fine crystal structure which
> minimizes hysteresis and eddy current losses. The material itself does not
> "extract" zero point energy from the vacuum.

It is my understanding from N's website that it is B who makes the ZPE
claim.

If you want to contradict B to support B ...

> The high permeability and low
> losses of the material essentially capture and confine the entire magnetic
> flux from the permanent magnets, separating it from another energy potential
> which is manipulated by the driver coils. I can't go any further than this,
> for I don't really understand the ideas that Bearden is using.
> 
> Mike Carrell
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 14:13:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22885;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 14:12:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:12:20 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
In-Reply-To: <007701c1f169$32a1a900$1258ccd1 asus>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020501135815.17526B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"1fqKS2.0.Vb5.pe5qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46991
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Mike Carrell wrote:

> 
> Where does Stephen get this idea? It is very plainly stated in Naudin's
> description of his experiment: "PowerLite cores from Honeywell, manufactured
> with the METGLAS amorphous alloy". What is odd that apparently statements
> are being made without reading source material.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/meg.htm

See the part about "Interesting Papers and documents".

Put simply, you error in thinking tha tthe material that N used is the
same as the material that B says he is using, and B appeals to ZPE. 

I am done with this thread.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 14:17:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25761;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 14:16:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:16:29 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD05B25.5070902 pbtta.com>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 17:16:21 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Zero Point Fields
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"b0tYd2.0.MI6.ii5qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46992
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

There have been discussions on this list regarding the magnitude of the 
ZPF and how its mass-equivalence should cause the universe to collapse 
(according to some).

This is a good article explaining why ZPF energy does not have a 
gravitational effect:

http://www.calphysics.org/articles/wesson.pdf

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 17:55:41 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28148;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 17:52:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:52:49 -0700
Message-ID: <00d201c1f174$a426ef80$cd9b09ca h9t5o6>
From: "eximcon" <eximcon mail.ru>
To: <nick7 itl.net>, <maslow@ix.netcom.com>, <Info@hawkassociates.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <007e01c1f0eb$aedec3a0$5c8f209a ggrf30j>
Subject: SELL  Fuel cell scooter
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:25:39 +0530
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Resent-Message-ID: <"shQbu3.0.kt6.Xt8qy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46993
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

e-mail : eximcon bigfoot.com
            eximcon mail.ru
Phone : 91-171-2699280,
FAX    : 91-171-2699280, 2652282
EXPORT IMPORT CONSORTIUM
38, Azad Nagar, Jagadhri Road,
AMBALA CANTT 133006 (India)
.
MAY 1, 2002.
.
Dear Sirs :
.
            We thank you for your following message, and wish to
desire to go through the economics of the same, cost of scooter,
working cost, (cost of fuel per km, etc), and cost of maintenance
if any. We have a big manufacturer of scooters who could be
made interested to market them in India under both of your
agreed brand.
.
             S.P.Tuteja




----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: fuel cell scooter


Gnorts,
           Here's a press release about a hydrogen powered 3kw fuel cell
scooter.

Nick

_____________________________________________________________
<<Manhattan Scientifics and Aprilia Unveil New Fuel Cell Powered Concept
Scooter at Paris Fair

4/30/2002 10:31:00 AM

LOS ALAMOS, N.M., Apr 30, 2002 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ --
Manhattan Scientifics, Inc. (MHTX), a U.S. technology development company
specializing in alternative energy, and Aprilia, Europe's second largest two
wheel vehicle manufacturer, unveiled a new fuel cell powered scooter today
at the International Paris Fair.

The scooter is an environmentally friendly electric concept vehicle called
"MOJITO FC." Powered by Manhattan Scientifics' new 3000 watt fuel cell, the
scooter is silent, pollution-free and ideal for urban use. Fueled by
hydrogen, production models should be capable of covering 120 miles with a
single fueling at a top speed of at least 35 miles an hour.

The MOJITO FC is the second Aprilia fuel cell powered concept vehicle
developed with Manhattan Scientifics. The two companies previously developed
the Aprilia ENJOY FC, a concept fuel cell powered bicycle. In 2001, the
ENJOY FC bicycle received strong international press coverage and received
one of Time Magazine's 2001 "Inventions of the Year" awards.

Manhattan Scientifics developed the vehicles with Aprilia to interest
manufacturers and other parties in the advantages of fuel cell powered
personal transportation. The company believes that in production, the fuel
cell scooter will be highly competitive with and have many advantages over
battery and gasoline powered scooters.

The new scooter uses Manhattan Scientifics' proprietary fuel cell technology
developed by its German unit, NovArs GmbH. The fuel cell is a hydrogen/air
system using advanced materials and unique technologies to minimize size and
weight. The system operates under ambient conditions without additional
ancillary equipment such as pumps or special cooling. The fuel cell system,
including all electronics, valves and fans, weighs slightly less than 6 kg.
The weight of the fuel vessel is only 4.3 kg.

Manhattan Scientifics believes fuel cell scooters with optimized drive
systems will achieve a higher top speed and quicker acceleration than
current vehicles with 50 and 80 cc internal combustion engines. In addition,
with an integrated fuel supply, the scooter should provide at least twice
the range of a battery driven vehicle on a single fueling.

Manhattan Scientifics' Chief Operating Officer Jack Harrod said, "This fuel
cell powered scooter is a continuation of our efforts to introduce
practical, alternative energy power for personal transportation. There are
an estimated 100 million motorized two-wheel vehicles in use worldwide with
the greatest number concentrated in the crowded cities of Asia. Global
scooter production exceeds 17 million units annually and use is expanding.
Pollution and noise are major problems in crowded cities particularly in
Asia. In year 2000, an estimated 10 million noisy, polluting scooters were
sold in China and 3 million in India. We believe our non-polluting fuel cell
scooter could play an important role in helping to alleviate these
conditions."

CEO Marvin Maslow said, "We believe our NovArs technology sets the benchmark
as the smallest size and lightest weight engine in the budding fuel cell
industry. This means our patented engine has particular application with
portables -- everything from laptop computers to power tools to bicycles,
scooters, golf carts, wheelchairs, and small boats. Imagine driving the new
MOJITO scooter in total silence for 120 miles on a single fueling of
inexpensive hydrogen."

Maslow added, "Industry experts believe it might be a decade before we see
true mass production and mass purchased fuel cell cars on our roads. But
this need not be true for other smaller forms of fuel-cell-driven personal
transportation, which are expected to play a significant role in the near
term for "people moving." This has particular significance today with our
emphasis on lessening our dependence on foreign imported oil. We are
entering the hydrogen age. Hydrogen is the basic source of energy in the
universe. The sun is fueled by hydrogen and our oceans contain a virtually
inexhaustible supply of it. Eventually hydrogen will become a readily
available inexpensive fuel and we will use it to power our homes, our
transportation, our offices and our factories."

Images of the MOJITO FC scooter may be found at the website
www.hawkassociates.com/mhtx/photos.htm

An investment profile on Manhattan Scientifics may be found on the website
www.hawkassociates.com/mhtx/profile.htm

Manhattan Scientifics, Inc. is a technology development company working in
the fields of alternative energy and fuel cells and on commercial
applications for touch technology. The company's development laboratories
are located in Los Alamos and Albuquerque, New Mexico and Passau, Germany.
Its executive facility is located in New York City. Copies of Manhattan
Scientifics' press releases, current quotes, stock charts and other
information for investors may be found on the websites www.mhtx.com and
www.hawkassociates.com.

The foregoing press release contains forward-looking statements, including
statements regarding the company's expectation of its future business. These
forward-looking statements are based largely on the company's expectations
and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, certain of which are
beyond the company's control. Actual results could differ materially from
these forward-looking statements as a result of a variety of factors. These
include but are not limited to, successfully completing the research and
development with respect to the fuel cells and other technologies,
successfully commercializing the fuel cells for mass production,
successfully protecting the company's patents, and effective significant
industry competition from various entities whose capabilities far exceeds
the company's. In light of these risks and uncertainties there can be no
assurances that the forward-looking statements in this press release will in
fact transpire or prove to be accurate.

    Executive Contacts:    Jack Harrod, COO, Manhattan Scientifics (214)
675-8033.    Email: harrod airmail.net    Marvin Maslow, CEO, Manhattan
Scientifics (917) 923-3300.    Email: maslow ix.netcom.com    Investor
Relations Contact:    Frank Hawkins, (Hawk Associates) (305) 852-2383
Email: Info hawkassociates.com                    MAKE YOUR OPINION COUNT -
Click Here>>




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  1 20:25:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17802;
	Wed, 1 May 2002 20:22:12 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:22:12 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD0B06B.70838BC9 att.net>
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 23:20:13 -0400
From: == WWWqWWW == Thunderbird <d-choma att.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ZV VORTEX-l <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re:Park book reviews
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"seUYG1.0.yL4.Z3Bqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46994
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Certainly the many points in those Park book reviews
need to be made.

Instead of one or two massive reviews could you break
down the issues and allow them be made one by one
by various VORTEX denizens (in their own words)?

Thunderbird

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 01:40:50 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16102;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 01:38:12 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 01:38:12 -0700
Message-ID: <00a101c1f1b4$c44443e0$948f209a ggrf30j>
From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020501111851.0319cbf8@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:38:34 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"c4hem3.0.Wx3.qhFqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46995
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Err guys,
            In Europe a "scooter" is not only the word for those small
wheeled foot propelled kids toys but also the name for a form of small
motorbike, with enclosed engine, smaller wheels than a conventional
motorbike, usually with a 50 -100cc two stroke engine. They are probably
most common in Italy. The most famous makes are Vespa, Lambretta and
Aprilia. It is this last company that was mentioned in the press release.
The market in the third world for these scooters/small motorbikes is
colossal. These particular fuel cells use hydrogen, which, of course, mostly
needs energy (A.K.A fossil fuel) to extract it - or does it.... (see below).
Apart from my environmental interest in fuel cells, CF, Aether motors, MEGS
etc (descending order of probability) I would love a 3-5kW electric power
unit for my hang glider (are you still here Rick M?).

Nick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

<<New Research Turns Sewage Farms Into Power Plants
1/05/02

Researchers at the University of Warwick's Warwick Process Technology Group
have devised a process that turns wet waste from sewage farms and paper
mills into a source of power.
University of Warwick researcher Dr Ashok Bhattacharya and his team are part
of a Europe wide consortium that have cracked the problem of how to extract
very pure levels of hydrogen from wet bio-matter, such as sewage or paper
mill waste. This very pure hydrogen can then be used in "fuel cells" to
power homes, factories and cars.

The research consortium have now received £2.5million in European funding to
work up their lab based solution into larger prototypes. Eventually the
research team's "plated membrane reactors" could be built as small
industrial units, no bigger than a large room in some cases, and added
directly to the sites of sewage plants or paper mills.

Previous attempts to extract pure hydrogen from bio-matter to power fuel
cells have only met with limited success, even with dry material. The new
process extracts very pure hydrogen from the more difficult but exceedingly
abundant wet bio-matter and even makes a virtue of the water content of the
material to generate even more pure hydrogen.

First the waste biomass is gasified breaking it down into its Methane CH4,
water H2O, Carbonmonoxide CO, and carbondioxide CO2 and some hydrogen. All
these gases are then fed into a reactor which uses them in a chemical
reaction which extracts the hydrogen from both the methane and the water.

In normal circumstances this reaction would reach an equilibrium and simply
stop once a certain amount of hydrogen had been generated. However the
research team uses a palladium coated ceramic semi permeable membrane as
part of the reactor which only lets hydrogen pass through.

This allows the researchers to both harvest very pure hydrogen from the
system (it can be over 95% pure) and to keep the reaction going as long as
it is fed with the waste biomass as the hydrogen never builds up to the
point where a chemical equilibrium would be reached thus stopping the
reaction.

The hydrogen produced by this very energy efficient method can then be used
to power hydrogen fuel cells. This process is also much cleaner than
traditional production of H2 as it does not use up fossil fuels, thus it
produces no more CO2 than would be produced naturally from the material
biodegrading and it produces no other emissions such as nitrous oxides.

Other novel engineering in the process includes the use of a coated
nanocrystaline catalyst to accelerate the reaction, and particular methods
to manage heat transfer and pressure.

The research project brings together the University of Warwick's Warwick
Process Technology Group team with Dutch, German and UK firms. In particular
the Dutch firm BTG and the University of Twente have contributed to the
gasification process and the Sheffield firm Dytech have contributed to the
highly engineered porous ceramics used in the reactor.>>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 05:05:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14410;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 05:02:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:02:15 -0700
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:02:02 +0100
From: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
Message-ID: <20020502120202.GE14090 genius.tao.org.uk>
Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>,
	vortex-l eskimo.com
References: <007e01c1f0eb$aedec3a0$5c8f209a ggrf30j> <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
Resent-Message-ID: <"WNYA92.0.3X3.6hIqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46996
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 10:24:46AM -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Nick Palmer wrote:
> 
> >           Here's a press release about a hydrogen powered 3kw fuel cell
> >scooter.
> 
> Yikes! 3 kW seems like too much power for a scooter. The press release says 
> it goes 35 mph (56 kph). That's way too fast! Even a bicycle is scary at 
> that speed, and a scooter gives you less control and less time to react to 
> road conditions.

Think motorcycle.  Scooters are small motorcycles, usually with a
automatic gearbox nowadays instead of a manual, and quite often can go
as fast as 80 miles an hour quite safely.  They're becoming very popular
in Europe because of the relatively low cost of getting on the road.
You do need to wear a crash helmet, be licenced to ride a motorbike and
be insured in England, so effectively they are motorbikes.

Joe

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 06:48:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00826;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 06:40:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:40:09 -0700
X-Sent: 2 May 2002 13:39:32 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020502093720.031c2988 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:39:17 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: fuel cell scooter
In-Reply-To: <00a101c1f1b4$c44443e0$948f209a ggrf30j>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501101303.03232848 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020501111851.0319cbf8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"fDXpu.0.cC.u6Kqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46997
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Nick Palmer wrote:

>Err guys,
>             In Europe a "scooter" is not only the word for those small
>wheeled foot propelled kids toys but also the name for a form of small
>motorbike, with enclosed engine . . .

Ah, yes. Of course. In that case, 3 kW is reasonable. Powered kid-style 
scooters are all the rage in the U.S.


>These particular fuel cells use hydrogen, which, of course, mostly
>needs energy (A.K.A fossil fuel) to extract it - or does it.... (see below).

Even taking that into account a fuel cell should waste less energy overall 
compared to a conventional gasoline engine.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 08:47:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08659;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 08:41:23 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:41:23 -0700
From: BVicknair bjservices.com
Subject: Re: more MEG
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4  June 8, 2000
Message-ID: <OFD77A65A0.43A0B945-ON86256BAC.0076FD23 bjservices.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:45:13 -0500
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on LNGW1/BJSUSA/BJSERVICES(Release 5.0.7 |March 21, 2001) at
 05/02/2002 10:45:06 AM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA08528
Resent-Message-ID: <"el3B02.0.m62.VuLqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46998
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


The language I was referring to was implied overunity and 'closing the
loop. ie self powering feedback. I am surprised this was allowed in the
Bearden patent; knowing the history of the uspto.

When 'squeezing magnetics' don't forget about virtual inertia and ramp up
time. I have seen this effect on a non-moving flat disc with 8 radial
mosfets simulating a moving n-machine.(this is not in EE302) Always let
your magnetic experiments run a week or longer. bv

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 08:56:30 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18170;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 08:55:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:55:29 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:57:03 -0700
Subject: Re: more MEG
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B8F6DA0F.2690%editor infinite-energy.com>
In-Reply-To: <OFD77A65A0.43A0B945-ON86256BAC.0076FD23 bjservices.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"q5LQr1.0.oR4.n5Mqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/46999
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 5/1/02 2:45 PM, "BVicknair bjservices.com" <BVicknair@bjservices.com>
wrote:

> The language I was referring to was implied overunity and 'closing the
> loop. ie self powering feedback. I am surprised this was allowed in the
> Bearden patent; knowing the history of the uspto.

The USPTO allows almost ANYTHING in the boilerplate. It's the claims that
are challenged.  But it IS surprising that such a glaring statement up front
would not trigger an overall negative reaction that would kill the
application.

Gene Mallove

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 10:32:00 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15203;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 10:29:06 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:29:06 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD1775D.6070400 pbtta.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:29:01 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: more MEG
References: <B8F6DA0F.2690%editor infinite-energy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"_BpeJ2.0.Tj3.YTNqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47000
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

>On 5/1/02 2:45 PM, "BVicknair bjservices.com" <BVicknair@bjservices.com>
>wrote:
>
>>The language I was referring to was implied overunity and 'closing the
>>loop. ie self powering feedback. I am surprised this was allowed in the
>>Bearden patent; knowing the history of the uspto.
>>
>
>The USPTO allows almost ANYTHING in the boilerplate. It's the claims that
>are challenged.  
>

You mean like this one in claim #4:

"a switching circuit driving electrical current alternately through said 
first and second input coils, wherein said electrical current driven 
through said first input coil causes said first input coil to produce a 
magnetic field opposing a concentration of magnetic flux from said 
permanent magnet within said first magnetic path, and wherein said 
electrical current driven through said second input coil causes said 
second input coil to produce a magnetic field opposing a concentration 
of magnetic flux from said permanent magnet within said second magnetic 
path, wherein a portion of electrical power induced in said first output 
coil provides power to drive said switching circuit."

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 11:14:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08543;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 11:11:11 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:11:11 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <BVicknair bjservices.com>
Subject: RE: more MEG
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:23:22 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEGKDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <OFD77A65A0.43A0B945-ON86256BAC.0076FD23 bjservices.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"5OU4p1.0.I52.z4Oqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47001
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi B.

Not surprising; what's being claimed is not a perpetual 
motion machine but a battery, one which wears down with
use. People seem to be confusing the Bearden promotion
with what the patent itself actually says. It's a shame
the actually inventor, Dr. Kenny has not expressed himself
publically on the MEG, except perhaps outside the patent. 
But of course that would probably ruin the biz plan...

I'm curious what you mean by "squeezing magnetics". Describe
how you see this effect in the homopolar generator you
describe, using pulsed coils rather than a rotating disk.
It would be nice to move this discussion on to something
with some meat on it.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: BVicknair bjservices.com [mailto:BVicknair@bjservices.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:45 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: more MEG



The language I was referring to was implied overunity and 'closing the
loop. ie self powering feedback. I am surprised this was allowed in the
Bearden patent; knowing the history of the uspto.

When 'squeezing magnetics' don't forget about virtual inertia and ramp up
time. I have seen this effect on a non-moving flat disc with 8 radial
mosfets simulating a moving n-machine.(this is not in EE302) Always let
your magnetic experiments run a week or longer. bv

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 14:53:57 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13599;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 14:50:39 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:50:39 -0700
From: BVicknair bjservices.com
Subject: RE:magnetics
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4  June 8, 2000
Message-ID: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:46:34 -0500
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on LNGW1/BJSUSA/BJSERVICES(Release 5.0.7 |March 21, 2001) at
 05/02/2002 04:54:29 PM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"n6HuP.0.LK3.lIRqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47002
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Dear K.

I know very little about Bearden et al but did read the latest patent. The
permanent magnet is replaced periodically. What is that period? You would
be required to insert such language in order to obtain a US patent.

The disc experiment was two discs, one of copper and the other alum.
Disc A (copper) had 8 fets controlled by a micro to allow variable ramp up
time and phasing. The current is not pulsed but rather switched similar to
a phased motor. The "segments" overlap by n microseconds. Simulated speeds
of 100,000 rpm may be obtained. The PM is arranged Faraday style. What is
observed after removing power is of interest. "Something" (viewed with a
scope)"winds down" and syncs up periodically. Odd that Disc B (alum) did
not exhibit the effect. The point is possibly the MEG and its variants have
coupled with this background 'field'. Even if it is a battery effect, there
could be commercial value. Lets save squeezing magnetics for another day.

bv


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 16:40:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16790;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 16:38:12 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:38:12 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: nick7 itl.net, maslow@ix.netcom.com, Info@hawkassociates.com
Subject: WARNING ABOUT:  SELL  Fuel cell scooter
In-Reply-To: <00d201c1f174$a426ef80$cd9b09ca h9t5o6>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020502162234.17693F-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"PyGzo3.0.F64.ZtSqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47003
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Be warned:  this guy's a famous spammer.  I have him blocked from my lists
because he keeps trying to flood them with advertizements.  But he keeps
changing his email address!  I've blocked his current address.

Spammers exist because spam WORKS.  If you hate spam, then never deal with
any spammer under any circumstances, no matter how good the deal.

Also, in the past, physics teachers on the TAP-L forum report receiving
neither products nor refunds from Tuteja.  He's in India, so if you never
get your order, you're out of luck. See:http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~lfh25/


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  2 17:49:24 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24072;
	Thu, 2 May 2002 17:46:40 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:46:40 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD1D16A.18498CD6 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:53:46 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Park book reviews
References: <3CD0B06B.70838BC9 att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"czYDQ3.0.ut5.ltTqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47004
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I suggest the following are ways Park has strayed from
normal argument:
1. He distorts scientific words and laws to reject ideas.
2. He uses ridicule rather than logic.
3. He makes arguments using false, incomplete and old
information.

Other than these defects, he is very entertaining and gives
occasional insight.

Ed

== WWWqWWW == Thunderbird wrote:

> Certainly the many points in those Park book reviews
> need to be made.
>
> Instead of one or two massive reviews could you break
> down the issues and allow them be made one by one
> by various VORTEX denizens (in their own words)?
>
> Thunderbird

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 07:50:19 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03266;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 07:46:41 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 07:46:41 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100301b8f84a304392 [209.23.136.28]>
In-Reply-To: <3CD1D16A.18498CD6 ix.netcom.com>
References: <3CD0B06B.70838BC9 att.net> <3CD1D16A.18498CD6@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:46:48 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Parkie and energy medicine
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ru2IQ.0.wo.GBgqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47005
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Ed Storms wrote;

>I suggest the following are ways Park has strayed from
>normal argument:


As you know, Parkie loves to attack energy medicine. For those of you 
who are still stuck in the physical paradigm and agree with the old 
boy on this matter, consider Death Touch Tom who was interviewed on 
the Art Bell program on Wednesday night. Tom's form of martial arts 
involves certain pressure points on the body which can short circuit 
your opponent's body causing him to temporarily loose strength.

It turns out that a stronger application of this energy can cause 
death. According to Tom, the reason that orientals bowed, as opposed 
to shaking hands is because you never knew who knew these techniques 
and would give you a deadly jolt. Also he attributed certain bubbling 
out in the armour that samari warriors wore to shielding the energy 
points around the stomach.

The accomplished marshal artist can jolt someone in a way that they 
will die two or three days later, from apparently natural causes. Tom 
alluded to an induced wobble in a top were the wobble comes and goes 
and comes and goes before the top falls over.

The most interesting comment he made concerned the nature of the 
energy. He mentioned they have measured heat an electromagnetic 
energy and gamma radiation! Tom is a martial artist and not a 
physicist, so he has no understanding of nonhertzian waves. Those of 
you how looked at the website put up by professor Meryl know that the 
nonhertzian waves that his equipment detect are involved with the 
operation of the body.

I assume that Tom has a website and that it would be linked from the 
Art Bell website. If some of you are interested in discussing this 
matter further, perhaps we would engage Tom in a discussion, His 
email address is deathtouchtom yahoo.com .

Since Parkie doesn't believe in this nonsense, perhaps he would be 
interested in being a guinne pig for Tom to demonstrate his 
techniques on. We might be able to kill two birds with one stone.
-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 09:37:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08433;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 09:34:26 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:34:26 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <BVicknair bjservices.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:46:40 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
In-Reply-To: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com>
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"LUeoV2.0.e32.Hmhqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47006
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi bv.

You ask:
>The permanent magnet is replaced periodically. What is that period? You
would
>be required to insert such language in order to obtain a US patent.

Why? Again, I stress that the patent is for a battery. If that is
conceded by the claimants, there is no need to specify the efficiency
of the battery. That you get more out than what you put in is a claim
of Beardens and not of this patent; although the implication is certainly
there. That's more business plan than science, all of Beardens contacts
would certainly drop the ball if it became obvious that the device
was not OU. Even closing the loop would be insufficent evidence of OU,
unless the device were to be made to run much longer than the stored
energy in the magnet. A battery and a resistor are the simplest form
of "OU" by this criteria. And my flashlight works "closed loop" for
a couple hours at least (smile).

Thanks for the brief description of your experiment. It sounds a lot
like what you are describing is eddy currents. Are you seeing something
more that would suggest otherwise? I suspect that if you went to
a superconductor for a disk you'd see that "Something" in all
it's glory (grin). When you say it's visible on the scope, are
you looking at a signal in the drive coils after cessation of
drive power, or actually probing the disk in some fashion?

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: BVicknair bjservices.com [mailto:BVicknair@bjservices.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 5:47 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE:magnetics



Dear K.

I know very little about Bearden et al but did read the latest patent. The
permanent magnet is replaced periodically. What is that period? You would
be required to insert such language in order to obtain a US patent.

The disc experiment was two discs, one of copper and the other alum.
Disc A (copper) had 8 fets controlled by a micro to allow variable ramp up
time and phasing. The current is not pulsed but rather switched similar to
a phased motor. The "segments" overlap by n microseconds. Simulated speeds
of 100,000 rpm may be obtained. The PM is arranged Faraday style. What is
observed after removing power is of interest. "Something" (viewed with a
scope)"winds down" and syncs up periodically. Odd that Disc B (alum) did
not exhibit the effect. The point is possibly the MEG and its variants have
coupled with this background 'field'. Even if it is a battery effect, there
could be commercial value. Lets save squeezing magnetics for another day.

bv


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 10:50:06 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29849;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 10:46:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:46:21 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD2CC83.127FA040 informatics.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:44:35 -0500
From: Jon Flickinger <jonfli informatics.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "vortex-L eskimo.com" <vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: more MEG
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"K9rdl2.0.AI7.hpiqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47007
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Below is a response from Tom Bearden to Dave Narby that I'm posting with Dave's
permission. I think there are some interesting comments which may be of interest
to some here!

Jon F


Dear Dave,

We know from hard personal experience with four other COP>1.0 systems that
were legitimate but fell by the wayside, that at this stage one must
single-mindedly focus on getting the large financial partner and funding
required to set up the proper physics lab (not just an electrodynamics lab)
to finish the project.  If we split our efforts all over the map, or if we
allow control of it to pass into other hands just to get some bucks, then
the MEG will die right here in front of the required funding cliff (some $29
million).  If the control passes, it will simply be suppressed like many
others have been.

The absolute kiss of death is to get involved in all sorts of publicity and
actions all over the map that deviate from the technical objective.  That
simply triggers every kind of critter that ever crawled out from under a
rock, all over us.  If enough critters are after you and all over you,
eventually one or more will get in there and bite you with a poison fang,
with high probability.  So we will not do that.  We are trying to deal with
principals and major investment groups only, and then only with proper do
diligence on both sides.  We want them to check us out just as rigorously as
we check them out.  And we do and they do.

That said, we are very sympathetic to what Steve Greer is doing, and
supportive of it, and we fervently wish for his resounding success.  He is
an excellent person, well-seasoned and knowledgeable, highly dedicated, and
a real mover and shaker on the world scene.  Steve has many contacts,
including with other COP>1.0 systems and inventors.  The MEG is not the only
game in town by any means.  Steve is aware of several other legitimate
systems, and is probably already working with those systems and their
inventors.  We accent again that there are other legitimate COP>1.0 systems
other than the MEG, and Steve is aware of them and their statuses.  All of
them that I am personally aware of, also are at that funding cliff where
they require substantial funding to go further and get to a producible
device ready for production and marketing.

The only way we can hope to succeed is keep focused on the final MEG
research goal, with single-minded purpose.  The situation on the MEG is as
follows:

The rights to the MEG are assigned to Magnetic Energy Ltd., whose CEO is Dr.
James L. Kenny.  Dr. Kenny --- not Tom Bearden --- is in charge of all
matters with respect to the MEG, as approved by the Board of Directors.  He
is also one of the principal inventors of the MEG.  The course of actions
taken on the MEG is determined by Dr. Kenny and the Board of Directors, not
by Tom Bearden as an individual.  That is exactly as it should be.
Incidentally, the acronym "MEG" was deliberately chosen so as to be named
after Dr. Kenny's daughter.  Had it not been for Lee's dogged persistence
over several arduous years, there would not be a MEG today.

What we have at present is a set of successful MEG lab experiment
apparatuses.  They are not by any means full-bore power systems ready to
produce, sell, and power one's house, etc.   Our first patent (with the
simple material) has just issued.  A second patent (with the more complex
material) has been filed, as has a continuance on the first patent.  We
still have two additional patents to prepare and file.

With that patent status, notice how extraordinarily sensitive we have to be
with respect to public demonstrations.  The patent laws determine what we
can and cannot do at this stage, not public opinion.   Else a single
demonstration could unwittingly lose all the remainder of one's patent
rights.  The proper people to call that kind of shot are our excellent and
long-suffering patent attorneys.  And they are calling it precisely the way
we are playing it.

In the MEG, there are four unusual areas of physics involved, in addition to
the standard electrical engineering aspects.  Consequently, to ramp up the
MEG to production size units, considerable research and development is
required, which includes those unusual areas of physics (such as geometric
phase and nonlinear oscillation control theory) also involved.  It will
require considerable funding to set up a proper lab in both the PHYSICS
aspects and the electromagnetic aspects and finish the MEG.  It isn't just
electronics and electromagnetics equipment and staff that are required; that
part is a piece of cake.  It is the PHYSICS equipment, instruments, and
staff that are required that are so expensive and critical.  The MEG  is a
highly nonlinear unit, and there is no such thing as a "linear scale-up"
factor for it, nor a linear functioning for it.  It is also a nonlinear
oscillation device, and ordinary linear oscillation theory does not hold.
Neither does ordinary control theory.   It is not a simple electromagnetics
problem; that part of it we can easily handle.  It's those four specialized
areas of physics where the hard work really has to be done --- with VERY
expensive instrumentation and technicians --- and it must be done if we are
to evolve it to a practical and production unit.

We are in serious negotiations with several major financial groups at
present, in an effort to raise the funding for the lab and final development
of the MEG to systems ready for mass production.  All our guys are seasoned
and experienced aerospace engineers, and we have been in all sorts of space
and defense programs, systems, projects, simulations, etc.  We know the
technical development game inside out; our careers have been and are based
on it and all its aspects.  To even build a decent engineering model and
simulation of the highly nonlinear MEG involving multidisciplinary functions
is a formidable (but doable) undertaking; our guys have done exactly such
projects in ballistic missile defense, various missile systems, space
defense, NASA space hardware and systems, electronic warfare, directed
energy weapons, ABM defense, etc. on a variety of projects.  We have indeed
developed and managed all the various aspects of development of just such
highly nonlinear, multi-disciplined models and simulations. So we know what
is required, what must be done, how to do it, and how much it will cost on a
"bare bones" program.  Bare bones for the MEG development and finishing is
$29 million.  There are partial programs that can be done for less, but that
is what the finishing program costs.

So our efforts are concentrated exclusively on obtaining a major financial
partner, so we can set up the necessary physics and electrodynamics lab and
staff with alacrity, and also obtain the services of four quite rare and
very expensive specialists, one required in each of those special physics
disciplines.  We have some very hard but satisfying physics work to do, not
publicity work and not just electrodynamics work.

If we deviate from that path, then like so many others the MEG will simply
wash away like a wave on the beach, just as has every other legitimate
COP>1.0 system when it reached that "sheer cliff" of the major funding
needed for the extraordinary nonlinear research to finish it and go from lab
experiment devices to production units.  Sadly, most of the folks managing
the COP>1.0 systems that reached that cliff did not fully appreciate the
formidable technical problems they faced, nor were they skilled enough to
recognize the full nature of the beast and what exactly was required to
finish it.   We intend to do everything in our power to see that such does
not happen to the MEG, if it is humanly possible to prevent it.  If we
succeed, we succeed.  If we fail, we fail --- but we will have given it our
very best shot.

Best wishes,

Tom Bearden

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 11:54:01 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12290;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 11:51:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:51:09 -0700
X-Sent: 3 May 2002 18:50:35 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503140405.03212e60 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:50:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: RE: more MEG, and 18th century parachutes
In-Reply-To: <3CD2CC83.127FA040 informatics.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"sHKRA2.0.s_2.Smjqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47008
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The letters Bearden sent me last year convinced Mizuno, I and others that 
he does not understand physics and engineering. This letter is proof that 
he knows nothing about business or the history of business. If Bill Gates 
had used the methods described here, he would still be screwing around with 
paper tape, trying to write his first BASIC interpreter. This letter is 
hogwash from beginning to end.

Bearden causes endless problems for himself, and then blames them all on 
other people. He imagines an invisible, nonexistent conspiracy suppresses 
"other legitimate COP>1.0 systems." There are only two legitimate systems: 
cold fusion, and (probably) the Griggs gadget. Neither has been suppressed! 
Both were replicated and independently tested when they were first 
revealed. (Griggs replicated Schaffer.) You can find tons of published 
proof that CF is real. Yes, it was attacked, and funding was been cut off, 
but after 1990 there was no question it was real.

Bearden, Mills, Correa and the other fringe inventors *must* go through the 
normal, scientific process of replication if they want recognition, or 
funding. They do not get a free pass. Why is this so difficult for them to 
understand?!? The rule applies equally and impartially to all claims, 
including conventional ones about improved turbines, PVs and what-have-you. 
When you hide your invention, and refuse to allow demonstrations and 
replications, you will be dismissed as a flake and you have no right to 
complain about it. Perhaps some ignorant fool will give Bearden the $29 
million, but no ordinary investor or venture capitalist would risk it. 
There is no point! Bearden can eliminate the risk in a few months by taking 
conventional steps to ensure replication.

This reminds me of one of the earliest tests of a parachute, conducted in 
late 1700s in England. Some guy invented a parachute shaped like a giant 
umbrella. He planned to jump about 1000 feet from a hot air balloon. His 
friends pleaded with him to attach a weight to the parachute and drop it in 
an unmanned test, but he insisted on using it himself instead, the first 
time it was dropped. The parachute was too small and unstable, and he was 
killed. He took a senseless risk that could have been avoided at no 
inconvenience. The poor man obviously had no clue how the experimental 
method works, or what purpose it serves. Perhaps there were many people 
like that 200 years ago, but it is shocking that Bearden -- who supposedly 
has a scientific background and who spouts technical jargon -- would be as 
ignorant as that poor suicidal idiot was.

Enough said!

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 11:57:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16643;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 11:56:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:56:54 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Basement inventor humor on ebay
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020503115558.10226A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"nbXmk3.0.t34.rrjqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47009
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:14:58 -0700
From: Martin Simon <msimon physics.ucla.edu>
To: tap-l listproc.appstate.edu

For those interested in a little humor check out the ebay
auction below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1727830412


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 12:31:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12172;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 12:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: more MEG
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:39:06 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEHFDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
In-Reply-To: <3CD2CC83.127FA040 informatics.net>
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"ilTnO2.0.6-2.xHkqy" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47010
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All.

Bearden writes:
>The absolute kiss of death is to get involved in all sorts of publicity and
>actions all over the map that deviate from the technical objective.

Which is what??? Isn't that exactly what Tom has been doing the past
year or two w/ regards to the MEG? Isn't that HIS JOB???

>We are trying to deal with
>principals and major investment groups only, and then only with proper do
>diligence on both sides.  We want them to check us out just as rigorously
as
>we check them out.  And we do and they do.

No problem there. I'd have to imagine it would be a remarkable
job to be an underling assigned to do "proper due dilligence" on
Mr. Bearden. My favorite period of Bearden was the late 80's,
when the cold war was raging and Bearden was spotting Bolsheviks
in the bathroom. The Tesla society used to sell his videos, they
give real insight into the thinking of the time... Check out
a copy of Fer-de-lance, which besides the usual collection of
mind control machines and tesla scalar howitzers contained a
remarkable chapter on Zarg (sp?), the evil overlord collective unconscious
God which when roused from slumber would destroy the world etc etc.
Oddly, this groovy and cool chapter didn't make it to the
website, such a shame. But you long-time fringe watchers know
exactly what I'm talking about...

Anyway, I apologize if this sounds like I'm beating on the man.
I think Tom honestly means well, and it is true that there is
in fact no such thing as bad publicity. But still, a lot of
interesting ideas get the Bearden treatment and then everyone steers
clear, this IS a bad thing IMHO. And I'd have to imagine that
these issues would come up in the normal course of writing that
30 million dollar check.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 14:04:34 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01583;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 13:59:39 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:59:39 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD32647.58CE bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:07:35 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20  (Win16; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: more MEG, and 18th century parachutes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503140405.03212e60 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"aXxDU.0.WO.uelqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47011
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> There are only two legitimate systems:
> cold fusion, and (probably) the Griggs gadget. Neither has been suppressed!

I beg to disagree.  CF *has* been supressed as far as the vast majority
of scientists are concerned.

And the Griggs OU cavitating device has been supressed as OU by the
owners.

Jed, keep an open mind.  Discerning between belief and knowledge can be
a tricky endeavor.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 15:05:02 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05157;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 15:02:10 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:02:10 -0700
X-Sent: 3 May 2002 22:01:33 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503172147.032116b0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 18:01:27 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: more MEG, and 18th century parachutes
In-Reply-To: <3CD32647.58CE bellsouth.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503140405.03212e60 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"IUR7e.0.FG1.XZmqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47012
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

> > There are only two legitimate systems:
> > cold fusion, and (probably) the Griggs gadget. Neither has been suppressed!
>
>I beg to disagree.  CF *has* been supressed as far as the vast majority
>of scientists are concerned.

I said in the message "yes, it was attacked, and funding was been cut off." 
That is one form of suppression, of course. But Bearden describes 
suppression which supposedly results in knowledge of the O/U device being 
lost. He says the proof that it is real vanishes, or the proof is never 
published or confirmed in the first place, for reasons he does not go into. 
That never happens. The truth about CF is accessible to anyone. Do a search 
for "cold fusion" on Google and you will turn up www.infinite-energy.com, 
Ed Storms' page the ICCF proceedings and much else. The "vast majority of 
scientists" have not done this, but they could do it any time.

In contrast, independent proof that the Bearden device exists and that it 
has been replicated has not been published anywhere, on paper or on the 
web. Not as far as I know anyway, except perhaps in Naudin's web site. That 
is a start, but it is not enough. Bearden has had many years to ensure 
proper, independent replications. Many people here & elsewhere would be 
willing to cooperate and perform a replication. There is no reason why he 
should have a credibility problems, and nothing to prevent him from doing 
normal, legitimate, conventional science like anyone else does. It would 
not jeopardize his business prospects. People who do normal science have 
often been granted patents and they have successfully protected 
intellectual property, and become very wealthy.

The "sheer cliff" he describes that has supposedly stopped other O/U 
systems -- and magically buried all experimental proof that they once 
existed -- is nonsense. No such cliff exists or can exist in a free 
society. Especially not nowadays, with the Internet. All knowledge of CF 
may eventually be lost, but it will take decades, and Bearden is talking 
about devices that supposedly existed a few years ago, or that still exist! 
Dozens of stories of O/U devices are documented in books like "The Search 
for Free Energy," and on the web. The information about "N machines" the 
Moray gadget, the Thesta-Distatica and the others has not been lost. Yet 
not one of these devices has even a shred of credible evidence. If one 
existed some time in the last 100 years, it would have been simple to 
produce ordinary, credible evidence. All that has been published are 
nonsensical reports written in double-talk that evades the obvious issues, 
such as self sustaining performance, plus a bunch of crazy theories written 
in terminology that makes no sense to trained scientists -- like the Correa 
stuff. At least Mills uses terms the most people understand, and he talks 
about particles that everyone agrees do exist. If cold fusion had no better 
evidence than this, I would not believe a word of it.


>And the Griggs OU cavitating device has been supressed as OU by the
>owners.

Not really. They don't want to talk about it, but if you or someone else 
would care to perform a study, and you have the funding, they would be 
happy to cooperate. In any case cavitation fusion has hardly been forgotten 
or suppressed! Happer tried to suppress it, but he failed.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 16:39:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11087;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 16:36:40 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 16:36:40 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD34B3A.22BE bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 19:45:14 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20  (Win16; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: more MEG, and 18th century parachutes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503140405.03212e60 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020503172147.032116b0@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"4vVRq3.0.9j2.7ynqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47013
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> In contrast, independent proof that the Bearden device exists and that it
> has been replicated has not been published anywhere, on paper or on the
> web.

The MEG is not TB's invention.  He says so on his web site.

I think I recognize at least two of the four other PhD's who hold the
patent.  All are from Huntsville.  I have asked a friend who once worked
for NASA to check on this.  

Ning Li lived in Huntsville before she got disgusted enough to return to
China.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 18:41:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24764;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 18:36:32 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:36:32 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 11:35:59 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com>
References: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA24700
Resent-Message-ID: <"hIE-d3.0.l26.Vipqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47014
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 12:46:40 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Why? Again, I stress that the patent is for a battery. If that is
>conceded by the claimants, there is no need to specify the efficiency
>of the battery. That you get more out than what you put in is a claim
>of Beardens and not of this patent; although the implication is certainly
>there. That's more business plan than science, all of Beardens contacts
>would certainly drop the ball if it became obvious that the device
>was not OU. Even closing the loop would be insufficent evidence of OU,
>unless the device were to be made to run much longer than the stored
>energy in the magnet. A battery and a resistor are the simplest form
>of "OU" by this criteria. And my flashlight works "closed loop" for
>a couple hours at least (smile).

Some of the best magnetic materials available, have an energy density of
about 4-500 J/L. So if Bearden's magnet had a 1 L volume, one might
expect it to put out 96 W for not much longer than 4-5 seconds. Hardly
much of a battery if you need to replace the magnet every 5 seconds ;).
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 19:57:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07779;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 19:54:31 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:54:31 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD34DE4.F1A5CBBE ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 19:56:36 -0700
From: Akira Kawasaki <aki ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: [Fwd: What's New for May 03, 2002]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"rcEka2.0.Tv1.drqqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47015
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for May 03, 2002
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:35:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 3 May 02   Washington, DC

1. SECRECY: PENTAGON SEEKS TO CONTROL UNCLASSIFIED PUBLICATION. 
As early as last December, the White House sought to restrict the
publication of unclassified information it deemed of potential
use to enemies(WN 22 Feb 02).  Now, the Pentagon is on the verge
of barring scientists from disclosing results of any DOD funded
research, even if the information is basic and unclassified,
unless they apply for and are granted specific  authorization. 
The new regulations are currently undergoing final review.  The
APS opposes any impediment to the free exchange of unclassified
scientific information: http://www.aps.org/statements/83.2.html

2. FREE ENERGY: PERPETUAL-MOTION HUCKSTER INDICTED IN KENTUCKY. 
Last Friday, Dennis Lee and his various screwball companies were
barred from conducting business in Kentucky (WN 7 Sep 01).  By
Monday, a grand jury had indicted Lee on consumer-fraud charges.
Each of the multiple felony counts could net him five to ten in
the can.  Other states are said to be lining up to file their own
charges.  Lee takes an old fashioned approach to free-energy
scams, resurrecting failed perpetual-motion ideas from a bygone
era, that still have the power to bamboozle the scientifically
unsophisticated.  He doesn't shy away from the term "perpetual
motion," and doesn't bother with applying for patents.  What he
sells are dealerships.  Delivery is just around the corner.

3. VACUUM ENERGY: HOW DO YOU PATENT A PERPETUAL-MOTION MACHINE? 
First, you never call it a "perpetual-motion machine."  It has
always been the policy of the Patent and Trademark Office to deny
patents for perpetual-motion devices.  So when the PTO denied a
patent to Joe Newman for an "energy machine" that generated more
energy than it took to run it, he sued the PTO claiming it was
not perpetual motion.  The energy, he said, came from conversion
of mass according to Einstein's equation; his machine was slowly
devouring its copper wires and iron cores.  Newman lost, but his
real invention was to invoke new physics to explain where the
energy comes from.  The new physics of choice these days is the
zero-point energy of the vacuum.  Thus, patent 6,362,718 (WN 5
Apr 02) is for a "motionless electromagnetic generator" that taps
the energy of "longitudinal electromagnetic waves that exist in
almost infinite abundance in the vacuum of space."  Or to put it
another way "energy is conserved in the fourth dimension, time."

4. MARS: ACADEMY REPORT SAYS IT MAY BE A DANGEROUS PLACE.  Six
months ago, a National Academy report, "Safe Passage," made it
clear that we don't know how to get to Mars alive (WN 7 Dec 01). 
A new report, "Safe on Mars," says we're not out of the soup when
we get there.  Robotic sampling or sample-return is needed to
determine the presence and extent of any harmful organisms or
compounds.  On the other hand, it's pretty spooky down here too.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May  3 20:11:35 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16878;
	Fri, 3 May 2002 20:10:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:10:55 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 23:23:12 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Resent-Message-ID: <"9m0F43.0.c74.-4rqy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47016
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Robin.

Yes, I agree that the device as described would be
not much competition for the dry cell market. Draw
what conclusions you may from that. I'm just
interested in what the patent claims. In column
11 lines 1-20 of the patent it is explicitly stated
that the energy comes from the flux stored in the
permament magnet, and further that said magnet loses
strength as that energy is extracted. Bearden may
say what he wishes, but that's what the patent says.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 9:36 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: magnetics


In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 12:46:40 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Why? Again, I stress that the patent is for a battery. If that is
>conceded by the claimants, there is no need to specify the efficiency
>of the battery. That you get more out than what you put in is a claim
>of Beardens and not of this patent; although the implication is certainly
>there. That's more business plan than science, all of Beardens contacts
>would certainly drop the ball if it became obvious that the device
>was not OU. Even closing the loop would be insufficent evidence of OU,
>unless the device were to be made to run much longer than the stored
>energy in the magnet. A battery and a resistor are the simplest form
>of "OU" by this criteria. And my flashlight works "closed loop" for
>a couple hours at least (smile).

Some of the best magnetic materials available, have an energy density of
about 4-500 J/L. So if Bearden's magnet had a 1 L volume, one might
expect it to put out 96 W for not much longer than 4-5 seconds. Hardly
much of a battery if you need to replace the magnet every 5 seconds ;).
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 08:50:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27364;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 08:47:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:47:55 -0700
X-Sent: 4 May 2002 15:47:21 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020504114553.032172d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 11:46:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Dance of the viruses
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ypc4r.0.Uh6.hA0ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47017
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Great stuff at U. Texas! See:

http://www.cm.utexas.edu/belcher/Research/film.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992248

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 13:11:07 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30815;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 13:08:23 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 13:08:23 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [66.217.54.52]
From: "Patrick Dowland" <patrick_dowland hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 16:07:51 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <LAW2-F99mZ5fgSdmlm10000c22e hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2002 20:07:51.0611 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EA600B0:01C1F3A7]
Resent-Message-ID: <"mXkWD2.0.LX7.t-3ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47018
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rotwheel wrote:

>People who do not contribute to society have no right to eat. Society -- 
>meaning farmers, shopkeepers, garbage collectors, doctors and the rest of 
>us -- keeps the Correas alive. If they are not interested in 
>commercialization, or they do not care for money, they should give away the 
>technology. Countless scientists have done that in the past, and earned 
>their keep.

Oh man, am I glad that the farmers and the shopkeepers don't think
that way.  When I think about all the projects that I've slaved on that
were canceled or killed by lousy management or corporate buyouts or
because the company I worked for lost money somewhere else, I don't
reckon I've ever contributed anything to society.  The only
project I've worked on that they ever let go to completion was on corporate 
security, so that some corporation or some goverment could
keep its secrets better.  And my wife, she sells these platform shoes,
you know, the ones that if your ankle gives in you're crippled for
life, so I don't think she contributes to society either.  But when she
and I go to a supermarket or a doctor, they don't ask us if we've
contributed to society, they just make sure we can pay the bill, and
off we walk with our milk and our Twinkies and our prescriptions.
What keeps us alive is that we can pay for what we need.  Isn't it the
same for the Corraes?  Or do they live from charity?  I don't know
anything about how they live, maybe with them it's different and they
don't pay for what they get.  That would be nice, I have to say, I
would go for that.  How does one do it?

Also, it seems like you are saying that if I am a scientist and work a 
corporation and get paid and humanity never benefits from it, that's
fine.  But if I quit and start doing my own research, with my own
hard-earned money, then suddenly I shouldn't be permitted to just do happily 
what I want, because now suddenly I owe something to
humanity.  So If now I discover something, I have a duty to make it
available to all the people out there who are starving for whatever
research it is that I do with my own hard-earned money.  And they are
starving, but even though they are starving they don't care to
do the work it takes to read my papers and my patents, so I have an
obligation of giving it to them in a way that doesn't ask them to
lift a finger.  All this I am supposed to do using my own hard-earned
money, or else I am a depraved monster. This is the most fundamental
lesson of life?  Pretty weird, if you ask me.

And then to whom exactly am I supposed to give my technology?  It's a
tough call, man, let me tell you.  You say to humanity, but who is
this?  AT&T?  The power companies?  The same corporation that I
quit working for, where I didn't contribute anything to society?
Some corrupt African goverment?  A beggar in the street?  Or maybe
you mean a charity, maybe United Way or the Pope?  Boy, I wouldn't know
what to do.  I might just end up dying as a depraved monster.  But you
wouldn't be in any such danger, you sound like you have it all figured
out.

By the way, it is interesting you say they use weird language, I read
all their monographs and they seemed very well written.  I didn't have
any trouble with the language, they use normal words like gravity,
work, energy, mass, electricity, magnetism, capacitance.  Which
monographs did you find were weirly written and the other people you
talked to?



Cheers,

Patrick




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 14:39:04 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05229;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 14:36:10 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:36:10 -0700
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:37:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mathias Bage <mathias Stacken.kth.se>
X-Sender: mathias viggo.bitops.com
Reply-To: Mathias Bage <mathias Stacken.kth.se>
To: "Melvin H. Miles" <melmiles bellsouth.net>
cc: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: New PDF & HTML versions of navy document 'volume1' uploaded
In-Reply-To: <005301c1f2d0$1e8904a0$8974d6d1 ridgecrest.ca.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020504210944.2881A-100000 viggo.bitops.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"ONDRw2.0.dH1.AH5ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47019
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Hi!

The less blurry figures are in place!  Chapter 3: figure 2 looks good,
figures 3 & 4 came to me in pixmap format, so they couldn't be improved
much, figure 5 was a real nightmare to format from the given input.

URLs:

  http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/tr1862-volume1.pdf
  http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/html/volume1/

  http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/tr1862-volume2.pdf  [no changes]
  http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/html/volume2/       [no changes]


Hope the figures are clear enough.

Regards,
  Mathias Bage

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 15:43:23 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03851;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 15:42:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:42:58 -0700
Message-ID: <004e01c1f3bd$07941bc0$6c06da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel@gis.net> <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:42:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"UHiv63.0.5y.oF6ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47021
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I forgot to mention the point of my reply... does anyone know of an equation
that can tell a magnet's field strength after exposure to the aforementioned
damaging things?



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 15:43:56 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03375;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 15:41:17 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:41:17 -0700
Message-ID: <004901c1f3bc$c8d22120$6c06da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel@gis.net> <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:41:06 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"DZIGk2.0.dq.CE6ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47020
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: magnetics


> In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 12:46:40 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>
> >Why? Again, I stress that the patent is for a battery. If that is
> >conceded by the claimants, there is no need to specify the efficiency
> >of the battery. That you get more out than what you put in is a claim
> >of Beardens and not of this patent; although the implication is certainly
> >there. That's more business plan than science, all of Beardens contacts
> >would certainly drop the ball if it became obvious that the device
> >was not OU. Even closing the loop would be insufficent evidence of OU,
> >unless the device were to be made to run much longer than the stored
> >energy in the magnet. A battery and a resistor are the simplest form
> >of "OU" by this criteria. And my flashlight works "closed loop" for
> >a couple hours at least (smile).
>
> Some of the best magnetic materials available, have an energy density of
> about 4-500 J/L. So if Bearden's magnet had a 1 L volume, one might
> expect it to put out 96 W for not much longer than 4-5 seconds. Hardly
> much of a battery if you need to replace the magnet every 5 seconds ;).
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk

I think there's something to be mentioned here - magnetic anisotropy, a
central (literally) factor that coincides with the magnet's permanence.
Even very high anisotropy, high permanence magnets will in the course of
time wear out.  NbFeB will wear out naturally in 1100 years or so, and
quicker if exposed to things (heat, external EM fields) which weaken it.
Over time, then, the overall performance of the MEG must slightly drop.
Ever play with some small Nd magnets a lot?  The permanence drops slightly -
not much but noticeably - when for example they've been snapped together a
lot (and haven't yet broken ;)  Very slightly radioisotope-laced material
used in the making of the magnets, as has been discussed to some degree on
one of the lists recently, allows a modest improvement in field strength.
Whether this adversely affects permanence, I don't know. Anyone care to
comment?

Ryan Hopkins

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May  4 21:28:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25617;
	Sat, 4 May 2002 21:25:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:25:49 -0700
Message-ID: <20020505042546.90569.qmail web11208.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MEG measurement errors?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F99mZ5fgSdmlm10000c22e hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"_rRjT2.0.5G6.CHBry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47022
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

--- Patrick Dowland <patrick_dowland hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jed Rotwheel wrote:
> 
> >People who do not contribute to society have no right to
> eat. Society -- 
> >meaning farmers, shopkeepers, garbage collectors, doctors
<<SNIP>>
> 
> Oh man, am I glad that the farmers and the shopkeepers don't
> think
> that way.  When I think about all the projects that I've
> slaved on that
<<HACK>>

Actually I think that Jed's definition "contributers" was a bit
short too but but there really are folks who don't contribute. 
They just sit and tick off time wasting resources and sponging
off the rest of us.  (My X is a perfect example)

There is a book...  I am not sure about the author or title 

Just look for "Clock with no hands" Which is an appropriate
analogy.

 

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 01:08:55 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21531;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 01:06:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 01:06:08 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:05:34 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com>
References: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA21508
Resent-Message-ID: <"kNT-83.0.KG5.mVEry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47023
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 23:23:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Hi Robin.
>
>Yes, I agree that the device as described would be
>not much competition for the dry cell market. Draw
>what conclusions you may from that. I'm just
>interested in what the patent claims. In column
>11 lines 1-20 of the patent it is explicitly stated
>that the energy comes from the flux stored in the
                      ^ If one inserts the word "partially" here,
then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.

>permament magnet, and further that said magnet loses
>strength as that energy is extracted. Bearden may
>say what he wishes, but that's what the patent says.
>
>K.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 01:09:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA23528;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 01:09:27 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 01:09:27 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:08:52 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <g2q9dugqu1ubtfcc5i7vg76oqu81ji7jmi 4ax.com>
References: <OFFE33CB43.7A2E152B-ON86256BAD.0074E51D bjservices.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEHCDDAA.knagel@gis.net> <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj@4ax.com> <004901c1f3bc$c8d22120$6c06da42@usadatanet.net>
In-Reply-To: <004901c1f3bc$c8d22120$6c06da42 usadatanet.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA23439
Resent-Message-ID: <"ahYXn.0.Ql5.tYEry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47024
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Ryan Hopkins's message of Sat, 4 May 2002 18:41:06 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>I think there's something to be mentioned here - magnetic anisotropy, a
>central (literally) factor that coincides with the magnet's permanence.
>Even very high anisotropy, high permanence magnets will in the course of
>time wear out.  NbFeB will wear out naturally in 1100 years or so, and
[snip]
I agree, and I suspect that this is what the patent is actually
referring to.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 12:02:59 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20743;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 11:59:30 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 11:59:30 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 15:11:46 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ijgy53.0.145.I4Ory" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47025
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Robin.

Robin Writes:
>If one inserts the word "partially" here,
>then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
>patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.

Quite to the contrary, they stand to make about 30 million
from the patent. I didn't understand this sort of thing
either until I spent some time down on Wall St. Despite
what Jed says, I think they're pursuing a fine and effective
business model. 

Here's the full quote from the patent.

*****************************************
Regarding thermodynamic considerations, it is noted that,
when the electromagnetic generator 10 is operating,
it is an open system not in thermodynamic equilibrium.
The system receives static energy from the magnetic flux
of the permanent magnet. Because the electromagnetic generator
10 is self-switched without an additional energy input,
the thermodynamic operation of the system is an open dissipative
system, receiving, collecting, and dissipating energy from its
environment; in this case, from the magnetic flux stored
within the permanent magnet. Continued operation of the
electromagnetic generator 10 causes demagnetization of the
permanent magnet. The use of a magnetic material including
rare earth elements, such as a samarium cobalt material
or a material including iron, neodymium, and boron is
preferable within the present invention, since such a
magnetic material has a relatively long life in this application. 

Thus, an electromagnetic generator operating in accordance with
the present invention should be considered not as a perpetual
motion machine, but rather as a system in which flux radiated
from a permanent magnet is converted into electricity, which is
used both to power the apparatus and to power an external load.
This is analogous to a system including a nuclear reactor,
in which a number of fuel rods radiate energy which is used to
keep the chain reaction going and to heat water for the generation
of electricity to drive external loads. 
**********************************************


K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:06 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: magnetics


In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 23:23:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Hi Robin.
>
>Yes, I agree that the device as described would be
>not much competition for the dry cell market. Draw
>what conclusions you may from that. I'm just
>interested in what the patent claims. In column
>11 lines 1-20 of the patent it is explicitly stated
>that the energy comes from the flux stored in the
                      ^ If one inserts the word "partially" here,
then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.

>permament magnet, and further that said magnet loses
>strength as that energy is extracted. Bearden may
>say what he wishes, but that's what the patent says.
>
>K.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 16:06:41 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17904;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 16:03:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:03:49 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:03:15 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <iedbdu44fddiafm6vr71imnb5q7mg4qp86 4ax.com>
References: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA17885
Resent-Message-ID: <"AHj7J3.0.gN4.LfRry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47026
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Sun, 5 May 2002 15:11:46 -0400:
Hi,

>Hi Robin.
>
>Robin Writes:
>>If one inserts the word "partially" here,
>>then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
>>patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.
>
>Quite to the contrary, they stand to make about 30 million
>from the patent. I didn't understand this sort of thing

This is a good point, though I doubt they will get the money without
demonstrating the prototype to the satisfaction of their investor.
[snip]
>Here's the full quote from the patent.
>
>*****************************************
>Regarding thermodynamic considerations, it is noted that,
>when the electromagnetic generator 10 is operating,
>it is an open system not in thermodynamic equilibrium.
>The system receives static energy from the magnetic flux
>of the permanent magnet. Because the electromagnetic generator

If you think of this in the terms that Bearden is always talking about
(i.e. tapping part of the Poynting flow), then it is possible that we
are on a different wavelength so to speak than he is. IOW it seems
likely that we don't necessarily share the same definition of flux with
him.

>10 is self-switched without an additional energy input,
>the thermodynamic operation of the system is an open dissipative
>system, receiving, collecting, and dissipating energy from its
>environment; 

!!

>in this case, from the magnetic flux stored
>within the permanent magnet. 

?? 

>Continued operation of the
>electromagnetic generator 10 causes demagnetization of the
>permanent magnet. 

But, as was pointed out yesterday this may not necessarily be because
the energy is used up.

>The use of a magnetic material including
>rare earth elements, such as a samarium cobalt material
>or a material including iron, neodymium, and boron is
>preferable within the present invention, since such a
>magnetic material has a relatively long life in this application. 

5 seconds is not a long life (or even relatively long life).

>
>Thus, an electromagnetic generator operating in accordance with
>the present invention should be considered not as a perpetual
>motion machine, but rather as a system in which flux radiated
                                                      ^^^^^^^^

I think this word is the clincher. It "points" to the Poynting flow, as
one doesn't usually refer to flux as being "radiated".

>from a permanent magnet is converted into electricity, which is
>used both to power the apparatus and to power an external load.
>This is analogous to a system including a nuclear reactor,
>in which a number of fuel rods radiate energy which is used to
>keep the chain reaction going and to heat water for the generation
>of electricity to drive external loads.

Both Samarium and Neodymium contain slightly radioactive isotopes.
Suppose that their use in such a device resulted in an increase in the
decay rate, and resulted in efficient conversion of the nuclear energy
into electrical energy. How long might one then expect to be able to
extract useful energy from such a system? (IOW how much Nd or Sm is
there in the materials that Bearden uses).
(This line of thought is in keeping with various other patents and
anecdotal reports over the years).
[snip]

PS - Keith could you perhaps see your way clear to blanking out the
"reply to"?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 17:40:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25916;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 17:37:36 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:37:36 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a0510030db8fb807fe231 [63.233.227.175]>
In-Reply-To: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com>
References: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com>
 <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel gis.net>
 <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:37:50 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"7TdA_.0.rK6.G1Try" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47027
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 23:23:12 -0400:
>Hi,
>[snip]
>
>  >Hi Robin.
>>
>then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
>patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.
>
I can, It's a symptom of the dread disease invertoritis.
-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 19:13:02 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28783;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 19:10:13 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:10:13 -0700
Message-ID: <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel@gis.net> <iedbdu44fddiafm6vr71imnb5q7mg4qp86@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:37:45 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"PQeFs1.0.Y17.5OUry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47028
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

My observations, for what they are worth:


> In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Sun, 5 May 2002 15:11:46 -0400:
> Hi,
>
> >Hi Robin.
> >
> >Robin Writes:
> >>If one inserts the word "partially" here,
> >>then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
> >>patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.
> >
> >Quite to the contrary, they stand to make about 30 million
> >from the patent. I didn't understand this sort of thing
>
> This is a good point, though I doubt they will get the money without
> demonstrating the prototype to the satisfaction of their investor.

You mean investors. Look at Naudin's site. It apparently works. How
sophisticated does one have to be to find the essential flaw and prove that
it doesn't?

> [snip]
> >Here's the full quote from the patent.
> >
> >*****************************************
> >Regarding thermodynamic considerations, it is noted that,
> >when the electromagnetic generator 10 is operating,
> >it is an open system not in thermodynamic equilibrium.
> >The system receives static energy from the magnetic flux
> >of the permanent magnet. Because the electromagnetic generator
>
> If you think of this in the terms that Bearden is always talking about
> (i.e. tapping part of the Poynting flow), then it is possible that we
> are on a different wavelength so to speak than he is. IOW it seems
> likely that we don't necessarily share the same definition of flux with
> him.

Of course not. The magnetic flux is trapped inside the core, which is
carefully chosen to have a small, square, hysteresis loop and negligible
eddy current losses. As I read his explanation, the orientation of the
control fields and their windings have much to do with the oritnetation of
the Poynting flow. The structure separates the magnetic flux and the
Poynting flow.

>
> >10 is self-switched without an additional energy input,
> >the thermodynamic operation of the system is an open dissipative
> >system, receiving, collecting, and dissipating energy from its
> >environment;

"!!" indeed. The "environment" is the universe, so it is not a "perpetual
motion" device. All those nice, slippery words keep it from being a
"perpetual motion" machine, including the words about demagnetixing the
magnet. So it qualifies for a patent. Peformance data are included, which
look a lot like the curves that Naudin publishes on his website.
>
> !!
>
> >in this case, from the magnetic flux stored
> >within the permanent magnet.

Not necessarily, if you believe in Poynting flows. The magnetic fluz
generated by the magnet is "merely" switched form one output coil to the
other. However, if the flux to one coil is opposed by a control coil, the
effective reluctance of the magnetic circuit increases, at least
temporarily, so the magnet experiences some demagnetizing effect. This is
common in permanent magnet motors, but once the the effect is "experienced",
further cycles do not further demagnetize the magnet. Once MEG is started,
the flux switches back and forth, generating
voltage in the output coils. The flux is pulsed, so it is useful to operate
at a self-resonant point so as to get a near sinewave output.

The core B-H curve shows a high permeability for small values of H and very
abrupt saturation. It doesn't take much H from the control coil to push the
flux to the opposing coil: it is a magneitc amplifier.

> ??
>
> >Continued operation of the
> >electromagnetic generator 10 causes demagnetization of the
> >permanent magnet.

In principle. See comments above. The patent does not say that the magneti
become totally demagnetized.
>
> But, as was pointed out yesterday this may not necessarily be because
> the energy is used up.

Bearden says it is the Poynting energy the flows into the device
"replenishing" the magnet. Don't ask me to explain this. I don't understand
it, but that is what he claims (but not in the patent).
>
> >The use of a magnetic material including
> >rare earth elements, such as a samarium cobalt material
> >or a material including iron, neodymium, and boron is
> >preferable within the present invention, since such a
> >magnetic material has a relatively long life in this application.
>
> 5 seconds is not a long life (or even relatively long life).

Who said 5 seconds? Not the patent.
>
> >
> >Thus, an electromagnetic generator operating in accordance with
> >the present invention should be considered not as a perpetual
> >motion machine, but rather as a system in which flux radiated
>                                                       ^^^^^^^^
>
> I think this word is the clincher. It "points" to the Poynting flow, as
> one doesn't usually refer to flux as being "radiated".
>
> >from a permanent magnet is converted into electricity, which is
> >used both to power the apparatus and to power an external load.
> >This is analogous to a system including a nuclear reactor,
> >in which a number of fuel rods radiate energy which is used to
> >keep the chain reaction going and to heat water for the generation
> >of electricity to drive external loads.

The analogy is misleading.
>
> Both Samarium and Neodymium contain slightly radioactive isotopes.
> Suppose that their use in such a device resulted in an increase in the
> decay rate, and resulted in efficient conversion of the nuclear energy
> into electrical energy. How long might one then expect to be able to
> extract useful energy from such a system? (IOW how much Nd or Sm is
> there in the materials that Bearden uses).
> (This line of thought is in keeping with various other patents and
> anecdotal reports over the years).

There is no claim in the patent that radioactive mass conversion has
anything to do with the system.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 22:40:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19677;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 22:37:38 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:37:38 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:49:57 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMGEHNDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1 asus>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ik7sM.0.Mp4.XQXry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47029
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Mike.

Mike C. Writes:
>You mean investors. Look at Naudin's site. It apparently works. How
>sophisticated does one have to be to find the essential flaw and prove that
>it doesn't?

Apparently, pretty sophisticated. On the other hand, if you look through
the archive you'll see plenty of reasonable criticism. I think it's
kind of silly to kibbitz though, without the machine in front of me
I can't do the kinds of tests necessary. One example of the kind of problem
that causes me to wonder is shown in the diagram MEGv2.1 test R21-1
which shows JLN taking the RMS of the power waveform to come up with
a figure for output power. He shows a nice 7.5 to 1 gain in power, pretty
convincing huh?????

Myself and another gentleman here on Vortex pointed out that the proper
technique is to take the average of the power wave. When I wrote this
to JLN, he replied that he was replicating Bearden and sure enough
in Fig 18 and 19 in Tom's paper, he shows scope shots with the same
error. Now it's understandable that Jean Louis would do this, he's
learning the art of measurement and he's replicating "the experts".
But jeeze, with 4 PhD's on the team you might think someone at MEL
understands the difference between RMS and average??? Big red flags
should be popping up here folks.

Later, Jean uses the correct method, see for example the MEG3.0 test run 2.
Now his ratio reduces to 3 to 1. Hmmmm... We should probably keep looking,
yes?
Due dilligence.

Ultimately, what "sophisticated" people will say is, "Measurement is great
for the measurer, but we need to see a closed loop system". So we're waiting
for this.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May  5 22:43:59 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22013;
	Sun, 5 May 2002 22:43:10 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:43:10 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:55:30 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMKEHNDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <iedbdu44fddiafm6vr71imnb5q7mg4qp86 4ax.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"Xdymn.0.qN5.kVXry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47030
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Robin.

>Robin Writes:
>This is a good point, though I doubt they will get the money without
>demonstrating the prototype to the satisfaction of their investor.

They will show what they've shown to all of us, which convinced so many
people here, or so I gather from the discussion. MEL's business
method has been most excellent by my estimation, that part of
this project impresses me a lot! It's made it well worth the time
to follow the progress.

I like some of the ideas expressed in the patent, and I wish
Dr. Kenny the best of luck in getting his funding. I'd like
to read more of what he has to say about the MEG. Tom's stuff
is promotional material and says things very different
from the little information we have from the inventor. I feel
the best approach is to go to the source. But your mileage may vary (smile).

K.

>PS - Keith could you perhaps see your way clear to blanking out the
>"reply to"?

Sorry about that. I do know why it happens but until quite
recently could do little about it. I have a new domain with email
and can now create a special profile in outlook to mail from.
When that happens, you can hit your reply button and get the
list. Otherwise, personal mail I send out may not be reply-able
depending on the mail client, if I make the change...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 03:25:26 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32315;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 03:22:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 03:22:51 -0700
Message-ID: <001b01c1f4ea$755df120$668291c2 pc>
From: "Noel Whitney" <quantum iol.ie>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com><NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel@gis.net><9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak@4ax.com> <a0510030db8fb807fe231@[63.233.227.175]>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:40:36 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Resent-Message-ID: <"tz5Rk1.0.ru7.xbbry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47031
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Thomas - Have a look at one Stanley Meyer and ask that question again!
Some 27 "Good" patents and nothing worked.
MEG appears to have a way to go yet .
Business plan is excellent for MEG/etc and its inventors but denies access
to the core Technology and even more important the "Know how",for Technology
transfer to get products out to market.

Why oh why do all these "Breakthroughs" bog down in massive first stage
Fiscal dilemma,s?
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: magnetics


> >In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 3 May 2002 23:23:12 -0400:
> >Hi,
> >[snip]
> >
> >  >Hi Robin.
> >>
> >then it might make more sense. I can't imagine anyone wasting money
> >patenting a device that they knew to be worthless.
> >
> I can, It's a symptom of the dread disease invertoritis.
> --
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 11:40:56 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14899;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 11:37:33 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:37:33 -0700
X-Sent: 6 May 2002 18:36:50 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020506143414.00a9fa50 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:36:47 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: CANDU reactor information
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"kaZSg1.0.be3.iriry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47032
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

See:

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cz725/cnf_sectionA.htm#e

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 11:43:16 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17814;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 11:42:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:42:08 -0700
X-Sent: 6 May 2002 18:41:24 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020506143930.0320e788 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:41:21 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: CANDU and Sudbury Neutrino Observatory
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"i3N-Z.0.sL4.vviry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47033
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

See:

http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/public/D2O.html

"The heavy water for the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) is on loan from 
Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL), and has a value of over $300 
million (Cnd). AECL's heavy water stockpile is to supply the moderator for 
future sale of CANDU stations. Owing to the extreme cleanliness 
requirements in SNO, the heavy water will come directly from the Bruce 
plant. This is arranged by an exchange agreement with Ontario hydro."



. . . I guess they found a way to remove all traces of tritium.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 12:12:01 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02051;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 12:08:57 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:08:57 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CANDU and Sudbury Neutrino Observatory
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020506143930.0320e788 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020506120730.8294A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"3Mu8A2.0.fV.8Jjry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47034
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mon, 6 May 2002, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> See:
> 
> http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/public/D2O.html
> 
> "The heavy water for the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) is on loan from 
> Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL), and has a value of over $300 
> million (Cnd). AECL's heavy water stockpile is to supply the moderator for 
> future sale of CANDU stations. Owing to the extreme cleanliness 
> requirements in SNO, the heavy water will come directly from the Bruce 
> plant. This is arranged by an exchange agreement with Ontario hydro."
> 
> 
> 
> . . . I guess they found a way to remove all traces of tritium.

:-) Yeah, right. 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 12:15:58 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05736;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 12:14:35 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:14:35 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: lajoie owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Lajoie <lajoie eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CANDU and Sudbury Neutrino Observatory
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020506120730.8294A-100000 eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020506121340.8518A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"qcQxo3.0.YP1.QOjry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47035
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


http://www.opg.com/info/safety_files/tritium.pdf


On Mon, 6 May 2002, Stephen Lajoie wrote:

> On Mon, 6 May 2002, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> > See:
> > 
> > http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/public/D2O.html
> > 
> > "The heavy water for the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) is on loan from 
> > Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL), and has a value of over $300 
> > million (Cnd). AECL's heavy water stockpile is to supply the moderator for 
> > future sale of CANDU stations. Owing to the extreme cleanliness 
> > requirements in SNO, the heavy water will come directly from the Bruce 
> > plant. This is arranged by an exchange agreement with Ontario hydro."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > . . . I guess they found a way to remove all traces of tritium.
> 
> :-) Yeah, right. 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 12:49:08 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18262;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 12:35:36 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:35:36 -0700
X-Sent: 6 May 2002 19:35:01 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020506152839.031c5ad8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:34:42 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: CANDU and Sudbury Neutrino Observatory
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020506121340.8518A-100000 eskimo.com>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020506120730.8294A-100000 eskimo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"KAZVf3.0.FT4.8ijry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47036
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Stephen Lajoie points to:

>http://www.opg.com/info/safety_files/tritium.pdf

This describes how they remove tritium from used moderator water. The water 
sent to Sudbury was never inside a nuclear reactor, so it contains many 
orders of magnitude less tritium and other nuclear waste.

R. Machacek of Ontario Hydro Nuclear Products told me that recycled 
moderator heavy water has roughly 100 million times too much contamination 
in it to be sold for in laboratories, so I am sure it has too much for a 
Neutrino Observatory! See Infinite Energy Magazine, #3, 1995, p. 55

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 15:25:49 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16452;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 15:23:12 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:23:12 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 08:22:37 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <sovddu42orrnmjfdej66l8j4uot8g2507g 4ax.com>
References: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel@gis.net> <iedbdu44fddiafm6vr71imnb5q7mg4qp86@4ax.com> <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1@asus>
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1 asus>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA16425
Resent-Message-ID: <"R48nn.0.-04.G9mry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47037
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Mike Carrell's message of Sun, 5 May 2002 21:37:45 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>You mean investors. Look at Naudin's site. It apparently works. How

I'm afraid I don't have a lot of faith in JLN.
(This is a personal opinion. I'm just not convinced that he finds the
correct explanation for his observations, or more precisely I feel that
he is too quick to jump to the conclusion that he wants to reach).

>sophisticated does one have to be to find the essential flaw and prove that
>it doesn't?

Not very. A completely stand alone self powering demonstration would
satisfy me, if I observed it myself, or if replicated in several places.
If one other than JLN were to replicate it, I would find it much more
probable.
[snip]
>Bearden says it is the Poynting energy the flows into the device
>"replenishing" the magnet. Don't ask me to explain this. I don't understand
>it, but that is what he claims (but not in the patent).
[snip]
>> 5 seconds is not a long life (or even relatively long life).
>
>Who said 5 seconds? Not the patent.

5 seconds is what I calculated a few messages back, based on materials
used, and approximate size of the magnet. It's what one would get, if
the energy really were only the magnetisation energy of the magnet.
[snip]
>> Both Samarium and Neodymium contain slightly radioactive isotopes.
>> Suppose that their use in such a device resulted in an increase in the
>> decay rate, and resulted in efficient conversion of the nuclear energy
>> into electrical energy. How long might one then expect to be able to
>> extract useful energy from such a system? (IOW how much Nd or Sm is
>> there in the materials that Bearden uses).
>> (This line of thought is in keeping with various other patents and
>> anecdotal reports over the years).
>
>There is no claim in the patent that radioactive mass conversion has
>anything to do with the system.
>
>Mike Carrell

Indeed, but this might be an alternative explanation (for more than 5
seconds worth of power) to that provided by Bearden, if he turns out to
be wrong.



Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 16:05:49 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10456;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 16:02:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:02:55 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:15:16 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEIADDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <sovddu42orrnmjfdej66l8j4uot8g2507g 4ax.com>
Resent-Message-ID: <"oeAs21.0.DZ2.Vkmry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47038
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Robin.

You write:
>5 seconds is what I calculated a few messages back, based on materials
>used, and approximate size of the magnet. It's what one would get, if
>the energy really were only the magnetisation energy of the magnet.

Why don't you provide us with your derivation, Robin.
I've been surprised at the variety of methods used to derive energy,
seems like one for every researcher (grin).

>>There is no claim in the patent that radioactive mass conversion has
>>anything to do with the system.
>>Mike Carrell
>Indeed, but this might be an alternative explanation (for more than 5
>seconds worth of power) to that provided by Bearden, if he turns out to
>be wrong.
>Robin van Spaandonk

OK, why not? In that case, simply substituting another chemistry of magnet
would be sufficient to test. If you're going to posit some conversion
of mass to energy, why not any of the nuclei? Or did you have a particular
reaction path in mind? 

K.

I will create a new account for myself soon, be patient (smile).


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 17:13:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16187;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 17:10:01 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:10:01 -0700
Message-ID: <20020507000957.42924.qmail web20703.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternator Resonance for the cold fusion community.
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"mmDXm2.0.py3.Ojnry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47039
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 
 

=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 17:55:00 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04460;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 17:52:27 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:52:27 -0700
Message-ID: <20020507005224.53134.qmail web20707.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternator Resonance Technique Stands Alone.(Flux Capacitor)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"tls2V2.0.c51.BLory" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47040
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

How fast do you guys want to move EXB fields for
unidirectional interactions of electrolysis? Heres an
example of what is made with alternator turn on before
the field is energized.

DSR1/ mutual induction for decreased voltage, but
increased voltage internally 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00167.jpg
 The DC field is not even energized, the ~1.6-1.8
volts present from ferromamgetic  field rotor metal
spin enable this one ended neon disharge, where the
amperage in that circuit indicates the internal
voltage to be ~1150 volts conveying 3.65 ma acraoos a
1.05 nf capacity. So let uys see it this circuit
driven by the alternator can produc e the asme result
with a real field input!, It does and the internal q
factors then show deviance, but the only total q
reduction is 640 to 600, and the circuit still
delivers ~4550 volts for a 7.5 volt stator input;
7.5 volt Stator Operation with solitary neon
connection. (4550 volts)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00172.jpg

The point of contention here is that vast electrical
potentials are available by 480 resonance alone, and
then another phase can enable the magnetic fields with
similar resonance, and then you make them in the same
space at the same time, and then you have made
history. They call that thing the flux capacitor. HDN


=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May  6 18:22:58 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22550;
	Mon, 6 May 2002 18:19:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:19:54 -0700
Message-ID: <20020507011949.2202.qmail web20703.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: 3 phase alternator electrolysis considerations.
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"_FFBF.0.BW5.vkory" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47041
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

 Rotation  for delivery with Delco Remo 7 pole face
delivers 480 hz   3450 rpm electric single phase motor
by sensible pulley diameter changes.
All phases are designated to produce voltage rise by
resonanace, two aditional interphasings are used to
increase resaonance, and only a third phase is
designated to send actual current through water cell.
One phase then interacts at resonance to produce its
electric field at right angles to current. The next
phase at resonance also produces a magnetic field at
right angles to cuurent conduction: where these things
are made possible by the fact that each vessel of
resonance uses the same space at right angles for
expresssion. The electric field would normally be
weak, but the water medium enhances this 40 times, the
magnetic field would also be weak, but the 20,000 air
core turns of the coil compensates, and even additonal
mesures are made to ensure the total efficiency of
delivery, where then only the meager input from the
third phase of the ac converted to DC by field
rectification alone enables these great future
possibilities. Now we can focus better for weapons
against the police state, by virtual aquisition of the
methods to make those former parties non existant. HDN

=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 00:58:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09625;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:58 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a0510031db8fd31529e20 [63.233.227.175]>
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1f4ea$755df120$668291c2 pc>
References: 
 <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com><NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.
 knagel gis.net><9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak@4ax.com>
 <a0510030db8fb807fe231 [63.233.227.175]>
 <001b01c1f4ea$755df120$668291c2 pc>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 02:57:18 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: more thoughts on free energy
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"9hJti2.0.EM2.5aury" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47044
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Thomas - Have a look at one Stanley Meyer and ask that question again!

You had to get me started on Stan Meyer again, didn't you! He talked 
me into driving all the way to Ohio, with a book on electrolyzers and 
a mechanical engineer, on the promise that he was going to show me a 
working F E machine. He did nothing of the sort. Then he stood up 
with a bible in one hand, and solicited $5000 with the other. When I 
mentioned testing his machine with a bomb calorimeter, he refused 
sighting National Security!!! When some of his victims sued him, he 
chose to pony up $25,000 because that was easier than producing a 
working machine.

OTOH, the Canadian group, Xogen keeps chugging along, and I wish them 
all the best. The Xogen patent not only looks like Stan's machine, 
they site Stan in the previous technology section. I built a 
electrolyzer cell patterned on Stan's, if any of you want to build 
the electronics, I'll ship it down to you, Otherwise, I going to make 
it into a floor lamp.

>Some 27 "Good" patents and nothing worked.
>MEG appears to have a way to go yet .

yah, like demonstrating energy production.

>Business plan is excellent for MEG/etc and its inventors but denies access
>to the core Technology and even more important the "Know how",for Technology
>transfer to get products out to market.

The best business plan won't carry a machine with a COP of less than 
10. OTOH, a machine with a COP of 100 won't require much of a 
business plan at all, I could sell one tomorrow.

>
>Why oh why do all these "Breakthroughs" bog down in massive first stage
>Fiscal dilemma,s?

Because they're physicists not businessmen! But, I've been watching 
grown men make fools of themselves for the past 25 years. Joe Newman 
fought the patent office all the way to the Court of Appeals trying 
to patent a 5000 machine that appeared to produce 40 watts if energy. 
Do you understand how expensive  that electricity would be? Why did 
he do it? Inventoritis

something else just came to mind. Have any of you looked at Hans 
Cohler's device? I understand that it looks a lot like Tom's machine.

Hey, check this URL out!

http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/050102/Quantum_force_powers_microslide_050102.html


-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 00:58:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09231;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:25 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:25 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100318b8fcf406360f [63.233.227.175]>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 02:57:18 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: equilibrium in solutions
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"Cw1VE.0.4G2.aZury" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47042
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I'm disappointed in the lack of response from the thread that I 
attempted to start about Death Touch Tom.

I am reading the second section of Cyril Davson's Physics of the 
Primary State of Matter. This covers the nature of life.

In previous threads we have discussed spontaneous organization of 
systems. I just came across this.

This vesicular formation, to which Leue first drew attention when he 
dropped a fragment of fused calcium chloride into a saturated 
solution of potassium carbonate or tri-basic potassium phosphate, 
marks the dawn of sex.

Further condensation of colloid bodies generated life, which can be 
studied at it's inception in the non-nucleated algae; such 
environmental stimuli as light, heat, moisture, ect. upon protoplasm, 
which is colloid material in an aqueous medium, cause an unequal 
distribution of water and all it holds in solution. The initial 
action is one of dehydration of a certain cell area of the cell which 
results in hydration of another area. The dehydration being an 
unnatural action ceases, whereas the hydration, being natural, 
continues until not only the disequilibrium established within the 
cell itself, but also that existing previously between the cell and 
it's exterior no longer exists, The time comes when the most hydrated 
or condensed area divides. The division may be into two equal halves 
or it may be one of "budding." But the process, what ever may be it's 
exact nature, is one to which McDongh refers as the cyclical change 
of dehydration.

Does anyone have any comments about the dropping of fused CaCl into 
the saturated solution?
-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 01:00:14 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09431;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:47 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:57:47 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a0510031bb8fd21f100db [63.233.227.175]>
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1 asus>
References: <9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak 4ax.com>
 <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMIEHLDDAA.knagel gis.net>
 <iedbdu44fddiafm6vr71imnb5q7mg4qp86 4ax.com>
 <001e01c1f4bc$09786a40$2957ccd1 asus>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 02:57:18 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"58vlk1.0.DJ2.wZury" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47043
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>My observations, for what they are worth:
>
>
>>  In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Sun, 5 May 2002 15:11:46 -0400:
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  >Hi Robin.
>>  >
>  > >Robin Writes:
>
>  >
>>  >in this case, from the magnetic flux stored
>>  >within the permanent magnet.

Were else would the magnetic flux come from?

>
>Not necessarily, if you believe in Poynting flows.

As I point out later in this email, can someone exlain Pounting flows?

>The core B-H curve shows a high permeability for small values of H and very
>abrupt saturation. It doesn't take much H from the control coil to push the
>flux to the opposing coil: it is a magneitc amplifier.

I agree.

>  > ??
>>
>>  >Continued operation of the
>>  >electromagnetic generator 10 causes demagnetization of the
>>  >permanent magnet.
>
>In principle. See comments above. The patent does not say that the magneti
>become totally demagnetized.
>  >
>>  But, as was pointed out yesterday this may not necessarily be because
>>  the energy is used up.

But weakening is not good.  That energy has to be accounted for.

>
>Bearden says it is the Poynting energy the flows into the device
>"replenishing" the magnet. Don't ask me to explain this. I don't understand
>it, but that is what he claims (but not in the patent).

Beardern's writing is full of references to cohering the energy of the vacuum.

>  >
>>  >The use of a magnetic material including
>  > >rare earth elements, such as a samarium cobalt material

They also produce magnets with the highest flux.

>  > 5 seconds is not a long life (or even relatively long life).
>
>Who said 5 seconds? Not the patent.
>>
>>  >
>>  >Thus, an electromagnetic generator operating in accordance with
>>  >the present invention should be considered not as a perpetual
>>  >motion machine, but rather as a system in which flux radiated
>>

I agree, no one other than Robert Park is using the term perpetual motion.

>                                                       ^^^^^^^^
>>
>>  I think this word is the clincher. It "points" to the Poynting flow, as
>  > one doesn't usually refer to flux as being "radiated".

How does the Poynting flow relate to Zero Point Energy?

>  >
>  > >from a permanent magnet is converted into electricity, which is

However if the permanent magnet's strength declines, that is another matter.

>  > >of electricity to drive external loads.
>
>The analogy is misleading.
>>
>>  Both Samarium and Neodymium contain slightly radioactive isotopes.
>  > Suppose


>There is no claim in the patent that radioactive mass conversion has
>anything to do with the system.
>
>Mike Carrell

I agree

-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 01:57:13 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32523;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 01:54:25 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 01:54:25 -0700
Message-ID: <00c901c1f5a7$45023280$34ada5c2 pc>
From: "Noel Whitney" <quantum iol.ie>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <che6dus29h90s544c1l7rm0sb7breejjlj 4ax.com><NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEHGDDAA.knagel@gis.net><9op9du0pijdcuhi2rcv1n1n02sn34ausak@4ax.com><a0510030db8fb807fe231@[63.233.227.175]><001b01c1f4ea$755df120$668291c2@pc> <a0510031db8fd31529e20@[63.233.227.175]>
Subject: Re: more thoughts on free energy
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:12:09 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Resent-Message-ID: <"2gHu6.0.5y7.0Pvry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47045
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Thomas - Tuesday morning here in Ireland - and you gave me a good laugh - A
floor lamp ! :-)

Have a look at the machine we built for Stan Meyer on our R+D part of our
web site   www.quantumleap.ie , it is a bit big to bring into the living
room!.
Did Stans brother go any further on the ideas?or did he let it die ?.

I looked as in studied ( But did not yet try to build) the Cooler device and
I agree its remarkably similar to the MEg , Tom B.s idea of a "Ping Pong"
effect is allready in the public domain thru devices like this.

keep the faith,
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: more thoughts on free energy


> >Thomas - Have a look at one Stanley Meyer and ask that question again!
>
> You had to get me started on Stan Meyer again, didn't you! He talked
> me into driving all the way to Ohio, with a book on electrolyzers and
> a mechanical engineer, on the promise that he was going to show me a
> working F E machine. He did nothing of the sort. Then he stood up
> with a bible in one hand, and solicited $5000 with the other. When I
> mentioned testing his machine with a bomb calorimeter, he refused
> sighting National Security!!! When some of his victims sued him, he
> chose to pony up $25,000 because that was easier than producing a
> working machine.
>
> OTOH, the Canadian group, Xogen keeps chugging along, and I wish them
> all the best. The Xogen patent not only looks like Stan's machine,
> they site Stan in the previous technology section. I built a
> electrolyzer cell patterned on Stan's, if any of you want to build
> the electronics, I'll ship it down to you, Otherwise, I going to make
> it into a floor lamp.
>
> >Some 27 "Good" patents and nothing worked.
> >MEG appears to have a way to go yet .
>
> yah, like demonstrating energy production.
>
> >Business plan is excellent for MEG/etc and its inventors but denies
access
> >to the core Technology and even more important the "Know how",for
Technology
> >transfer to get products out to market.
>
> The best business plan won't carry a machine with a COP of less than
> 10. OTOH, a machine with a COP of 100 won't require much of a
> business plan at all, I could sell one tomorrow.
>
> >
> >Why oh why do all these "Breakthroughs" bog down in massive first stage
> >Fiscal dilemma,s?
>
> Because they're physicists not businessmen! But, I've been watching
> grown men make fools of themselves for the past 25 years. Joe Newman
> fought the patent office all the way to the Court of Appeals trying
> to patent a 5000 machine that appeared to produce 40 watts if energy.
> Do you understand how expensive  that electricity would be? Why did
> he do it? Inventoritis
>
> something else just came to mind. Have any of you looked at Hans
> Cohler's device? I understand that it looks a lot like Tom's machine.
>
> Hey, check this URL out!
>
>
http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/050102/Quantum_force_powers_microslide_05
0102.html
>
>
> --
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 02:28:25 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA11295;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 02:26:00 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 02:26:00 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:25:25 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <m96fdukgoavnvtcoqdosvlsqegcvj8okbh 4ax.com>
References: <sovddu42orrnmjfdej66l8j4uot8g2507g 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEIADDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEIADDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA11265
Resent-Message-ID: <"0uO_D1.0.Pm2.dsvry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47046
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Mon, 6 May 2002 19:15:16 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Why don't you provide us with your derivation, Robin.
>I've been surprised at the variety of methods used to derive energy,
>seems like one for every researcher (grin).

I just based it on the energy product of the magnetic material (in J/L),
and a guess at the volume of the magnet at 1 L. Then calculated how long
it would supply 96 Watts. I came up with about 5 seconds.
[snip]
>>Indeed, but this might be an alternative explanation (for more than 5
>>seconds worth of power) to that provided by Bearden, if he turns out to
>>be wrong.
>>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>OK, why not? In that case, simply substituting another chemistry of magnet
>would be sufficient to test. 

Indeed, provided no radioactive material is used.

>If you're going to posit some conversion
>of mass to energy, why not any of the nuclei? Or did you have a particular
>reaction path in mind? 

Both Samarium and Neodymium contain a percentage of long lived
radioisotope in nature. 
Sm147 = 14.97%, Sm148 = 11.24% (of natural Sm)
Nd144 = 23.85% of natural Nd.

All I had in mind was a stimulated decay of these nuclei, with a
reaction force against the stimulus, such that excess energy manifests
in the stimulating circuit.

There is some precedent for this type of reaction in the Hubbard motor,
and Paul Brown's patent US4835433.

Furthermore, it has been suggested that both Sm and Nd are such good
magnet materials, precisely because they are slightly radioactive.
If so, then stimulating the decay of the radioactive nuclei would hasten
the demise of the magnet, perhaps giving rise to Bearden's comment about
the magnets losing power after some time, and needing to be replaced.
Furthermore, this would indeed fulfill the definition of a battery, as
all the energy is already in the system, in the form of nuclear energy.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 04:03:49 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12051;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 03:59:35 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 03:59:35 -0700
Message-ID: <001301c1f5ad$ae55f220$1a17b83f computer>
From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <hheffner@mtaonline.net>,
        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>,
        <jlsparber earthlink.net>, <dalepbigboy@juno.com>, <Deubedoo@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bore-Hole Reactor for Shale Oil Production?
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 04:57:55 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"_o5vS3.0.Dy2.NExry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47047
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Back-of-the-envelope calculations indicate that a "bore-hole fission reactor could
liberate 2,000-10,000 barrels of kerogen per gram of U235 or Pu239 merely by running
the Helium-Moderated reactor in a Helium-Pressurized-Cased bore-hole, surrounded by
kerogen-vent bore-holes.

http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/v98n4/Youngquist.html


http://www.chem-eng.utoronto.ca/~slopoke/history.html

http://www.chem-eng.utoronto.ca/~slopoke/schemat.html

Also, might make a good repository for spent fuel rods and nuke wastes, after the
"oil" has been depleted.

Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 07:47:59 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22519;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 07:45:03 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:45:03 -0700
X-Sent: 7 May 2002 14:44:29 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:43:12 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: What is normal ambient RF power?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"X6Gnq3.0.jV5.lX-ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47048
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Someone suggested that Correa's "Aetherometry" results are actually caused 
by ambient RF energy. In other words, the Faraday cage intercepts all 
wavelengths of RF energy from the surroundings and heats up, and this heat 
drives the Stirling engine. It is not clear to me how much energy it takes 
to drives the Stirling engine, but in any case, the temperature difference 
above the box was 1 or 2 degrees C, which indicates a considerable amount 
of energy.

This hypothesis sounds implausible to me. As far as I know, in most 
locations in the U.S. there is only a tiny amount of ambient RF energy. 
People living next door to a radio station in Long Island hear the 
broadcasts coming from the radiators, toasters, telephones and answering 
machines. The signal blankets the spectrum. They are probably exposed to a 
lot more RF than the rest of us, but I've ever heard their screened porches 
get hot. I aways assumed that all RF amounts to a milliwatts per square 
meter at most, which is not enough to drive a Stirling engine on an 8" x 
12" Faraday cage. Can anyone estimate this? Does anyone know of a published 
estimate? Does anyone have a meter handy?

I did a quick search, but I do not know the right terminology, or much 
about this subject. I came up with a statement from a British study on cell 
phone towers: "Studies have found that exposures at ground level near 
single base stations have generally been in the region of 10 milliwatts per 
square meter (mWm-2)"

http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/scieh/environmental/enviropdf/Mobiles%20phones.pdf

I assume there is far more RF oomph at the base of tower than there would 
be in a house a kilometer away.

In a related subject, here is an interesting article about these new 
machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to transmit 
incredible amounts of data over very short distances:

http://www.sciam.com/2002/0502issue/0502leeper.html

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 08:35:09 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09888;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 08:26:34 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:26:34 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD7E5A8.5FADBD99 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 08:33:14 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: equilibrium in solutions
References: <a05100318b8fcf406360f [63.233.227.175]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"sJFem3.0.PQ2.g8_ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47049
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



thomas malloy wrote:

> I'm disappointed in the lack of response from the thread that I
> attempted to start about Death Touch Tom.
>
> I am reading the second section of Cyril Davson's Physics of the
> Primary State of Matter. This covers the nature of life.
>
> In previous threads we have discussed spontaneous organization of
> systems. I just came across this.
>
> This vesicular formation, to which Leue first drew attention when he
> dropped a fragment of fused calcium chloride into a saturated
> solution of potassium carbonate or tri-basic potassium phosphate,
> marks the dawn of sex.
>
> Further condensation of colloid bodies generated life, which can be
> studied at it's inception in the non-nucleated algae; such
> environmental stimuli as light, heat, moisture, ect. upon protoplasm,
> which is colloid material in an aqueous medium, cause an unequal
> distribution of water and all it holds in solution. The initial
> action is one of dehydration of a certain cell area of the cell which
> results in hydration of another area. The dehydration being an
> unnatural action ceases, whereas the hydration, being natural,
> continues until not only the disequilibrium established within the
> cell itself, but also that existing previously between the cell and
> it's exterior no longer exists, The time comes when the most hydrated
> or condensed area divides. The division may be into two equal halves
> or it may be one of "budding." But the process, what ever may be it's
> exact nature, is one to which McDongh refers as the cyclical change
> of dehydration.
>
> Does anyone have any comments about the dropping of fused CaCl into
> the saturated solution?

I'm afraid that dropping a fragment of fused calcium chloride into a
saturated
solution of potassium carbonate or tri-basic potassium phosphate has
nothing to do with sex, except as a simple analogy.  Saturated solutions
are unstable with respect to forming the solid phase and can be caused
to form the solid many different ways.  In addition, such solutions can
obviously not reproduce themselves, the goal of sex.  The idea that life
resulted from a similar condensation of colloid bodies is simple minded
beyond belief.  This is an idea more consistent with the 1800 century
before the concept of genes was introduced.  I suggest you seek out some
more modern reading material, Tom.

Ed

>
> --

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 08:37:48 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15054;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 08:36:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:36:15 -0700
From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <bb.1fafdb73.2a094e3e aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:35:26 EDT
Subject: Investment opportunities, for Indoor Pressurized Hydroponic Organic Farms
To: Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com, Wangus@yahoogroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
CC: aelewis provide.net, ConexTom@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bb.1fafdb73.2a094e3e_boundary"
X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50
Resent-Message-ID: <"cSDlM1.0.8h3.lH_ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47050
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


--part1_bb.1fafdb73.2a094e3e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nutritech Organic Farms, at www.rhfweb.com\no, a pure for profit trust, is 
seeking professional investors for the projects below:

1. Purchase of farm land for the indoor organic hydroponic farm - $50,000.
2. Cost of building an organic indoor hydroponic green house farm  - $ 
50,000. 

This farm may consider growing foods at 1.5 atmospheric pressure in the green 
house, to grow the organic foods up to 10 times their normal size, which may 
increase profits. We also have a proprietary classified renewable energy 
device not for sale to the general public, that will make energy costs to run 
the green house, almost free.   

3. Fees, needed to pay for a manager to run the indoor organic farm for 1 
year until the farm can make a profit to pay for itself  - $25,000.

Any investors interested in these projects, will receive Trust Certificate 
Units negotiable to the number of units, that entitle the investor to 
distributed benefits every year and rights to the trust assets, from the 
Nutritech Organic Farm pure for profit trust. Also investments are tax free, 
until the profits are distributed. For more information on the trust 
investment structure, please click on [<A HREF="http://www.rhfweb.com/trustb.html">Articles of the Nutritech Trust</A>] or 
www.rhfweb.com\trustb.html.Please contact the trust Manger, and trustee, 
Thomas Clark, at the following email address tom rhfweb.com or phone mail box 
(517) 342-9761, for further information. 

I thank you for your attention to these matters.


Respectfully,


Nutritech, at www.rhfweb.com\no
Manager, and Trustee, Thomas Clark, (517) 342-9761
tom rhfweb.com



--part1_bb.1fafdb73.2a094e3e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Nutritech Organic Farms, at www.rhfweb.com\no, a pure for profit trust, is seeking professional investors for the projects below:
<BR>
<BR>1. Purchase of farm land for the indoor organic hydroponic farm - $50,000.
<BR>2. Cost of building an organic indoor hydroponic green house farm &nbsp;- $ 50,000. 
<BR>
<BR>This farm may consider growing foods at 1.5 atmospheric pressure in the green house, to grow the organic foods up to 10 times their normal size, which may increase profits. We also have a proprietary classified renewable energy device not for sale to the general public, that will make energy costs to run the green house, almost free.   
<BR>
<BR>3. Fees, needed to pay for a manager to run the indoor organic farm for 1 year until the farm can make a profit to pay for itself &nbsp;- $25,000.
<BR>
<BR>Any investors interested in these projects, will receive Trust Certificate Units negotiable to the number of units, that entitle the investor to distributed benefits every year and rights to the trust assets, from the Nutritech Organic Farm pure for profit trust. Also investments are tax free, until the profits are distributed. For more information on the trust investment structure, please click on [<A HREF="http://www.rhfweb.com/trustb.html">Articles of the Nutritech Trust</A>] or www.rhfweb.com\trustb.html.Please contact the trust Manger, and trustee, Thomas Clark, at the following email address tom rhfweb.com or phone mail box (517) 342-9761, for further information. 
<BR>
<BR>I thank you for your attention to these matters.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Nutritech, at www.rhfweb.com\no
<BR>Manager, and Trustee, Thomas Clark, (517) 342-9761
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_bb.1fafdb73.2a094e3e_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 08:45:01 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19823;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 08:44:24 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:44:24 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Enron and California; The Empire Strikes Back!
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:56:41 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMGEICDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"pPl-C2.0.dr4.MP_ry" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47051
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hey folks.

Check this out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/07/business/07ENRO.html?ex=1021435200&en=3667
8de5880687cd&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/07/news/enron_feinstein/index.htm

My favorite was the "Death Star" strategy for trading. I can just
see Ken Lay togged out as the Emperor, discussing things with
Dick Cheney...

"We will CRUSH the rebellion in California, Lord Cheney, and
with it all hopes of defeating the Empire".

Camera flashes back for a reaction shot to Dick Cheney,
wearing a black football helmet and cape. The sounds of deep breathing
and the ping of his heart defibrillator are heard in the background...

"By your command, Kenny Boy".

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 09:10:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA15125;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sent: 7 May 2002 16:03:44 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507115927.031ac2c0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:00:52 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Enron and California; The Empire Strikes Back!
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMGEICDDAA.knagel gis.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"5zxXs.0.Ei3.Di_ry" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47052
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

That's hysterical! I love this quote from the NYT:

"Within Enron, the documents show, traders used strategies code-named Fat 
Boy, Ricochet, Get Shorty, Load Shift and Death Star to increase Enron's 
profits from trading power in the state -- techniques that added to 
electricity costs and congestion on transmission lines."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 09:53:13 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19622;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 09:40:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:40:08 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD80366.6090700 pbtta.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:40:06 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"2p-zT2.0.Wo4.eD0sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47053
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> I did a quick search, but I do not know the right terminology, or much 
> about this subject. I came up with a statement from a British study on 
> cell phone towers: "Studies have found that exposures at ground level 
> near single base stations have generally been in the region of 10 
> milliwatts per square meter (mWm-2)"


The term in vogue is "non-ionizing radiation".  Here is the NIH guidelines:

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/odhsb/manual/man9b.htm

You try to keep the body thermal load below 0.4 W/kg.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 10:30:33 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA12243;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 10:27:07 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:27:07 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: magnetics
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:39:28 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMEEIEDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <m96fdukgoavnvtcoqdosvlsqegcvj8okbh 4ax.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"294053.0.9_2.gv0sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47054
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Robin. 

You write:
>I just based it on the energy product of the magnetic material (in J/L),
>and a guess at the volume of the magnet at 1 L. Then calculated how long
>it would supply 96 Watts. I came up with about 5 seconds.

OK. The max energy product is given by the point on the demagnetization
curve where the product of B and H is a maximum. Consider a case
where the magnet material is bent into a closed torroid shape. Given
that all of the flux is contained inside the torroid, at remanence
H will be zero. That means the energy stored in the torroid at
saturation is zero????????

>All I had in mind was a stimulated decay of these nuclei, with a
>reaction force against the stimulus, such that excess energy manifests
>in the stimulating circuit.

Why not? At least your idea posits a source of energy, which
to my mind makes a lot more sense than just waving the hands
and saying it comes out of the vacuum. Of course the key is
indentifying how it is that the energy in the decay of the material couples
to the field. And how emission is stimulated. I seem to remember
Fred Epps had found some prior art in the patent literature which
developed on this idea...

K.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 11:23:09 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07317;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 11:19:44 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:19:44 -0700
X-Sent: 7 May 2002 18:19:08 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507132812.03220968 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:30:57 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
In-Reply-To: <3CD80366.6090700 pbtta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"B4Tl5.0.Fo1.0h1sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47055
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

>The term in vogue is "non-ionizing radiation".  Here is the NIH guidelines:
>
>http://www.niehs.nih.gov/odhsb/manual/man9b.htm
>
>You try to keep the body thermal load below 0.4 W/kg.

I suppose a Faraday cage intercepts RF better than a human body does, and 
0.4 W/kg would be more than enough to drive the Stirling engine. However, 
this guideline is for people working in RF intense environments.

Does anyone happen to know what the normal background level is, outdoors 
and in houses.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 11:47:44 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19011;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 11:38:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:38:54 -0700
Message-ID: <3CD81F33.1020705 pbtta.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:38:43 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020507132812.03220968@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"smj26.0.we4.zy1sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47056
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> I suppose a Faraday cage intercepts RF better than a human body does, 
> and 0.4 W/kg would be more than enough to drive the Stirling engine. 
> However, this guideline is for people working in RF intense environments. 


Not really.  You probably come close to the max at times with your 
office near the PDK airport.

> Does anyone happen to know what the normal background level is, 
> outdoors and in houses. 


There is really no such thing.  The level of RF varies with frequency 
and intensity over many decades of levels.  You can experience one level 
and move 100 feet away and find the level has changed 1000 fold, 
especially in urban areas.  The only time I ever actually "felt" it was 
when I was doing a building top survey on the former North Tower of the 
WTC.  We were limited to 15 minutes on the roof due to the intense levels.

Think of all the sources, your home wiring, satellites, communication 
towers with highly directional antennae, and your cell phone, to name a 
few.  That's why I sent you to NIH.  These are the max. levels.

Note:  allowable levels of non-ionizing radiation in the former Soviet 
Union were 30 dB (1000 x) below the power levels we considered safe in 
the US.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 12:25:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10008;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 12:23:05 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:23:05 -0700
X-Sent: 7 May 2002 19:22:29 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507151149.03228c18 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:22:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
In-Reply-To: <3CD81F33.1020705 pbtta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020507132812.03220968 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"9Z8Md1.0.HS2.Pc2sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47057
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

>>does, and 0.4 W/kg would be more than enough to drive the Stirling 
>>engine. However, this guideline is for people working in RF intense 
>>environments.
>
>
>Not really.  You probably come close to the max at times with your office 
>near the PDK airport.

Great! So I can say the FAA is zapping my brain and I am not even paranoid. 
To think they send policemen around when we try to fly a kite in the 
parking lot! Yesterday they nearly ran me and my bicycle down with a fire 
engine just because some guy couldn't lower his landing gear.

They Are Out To Get Me.


>>Does anyone happen to know what the normal background level is, outdoors 
>>and in houses.
>
>
>There is really no such thing.  The level of RF varies with frequency and 
>intensity over many decades of levels.  You can experience one level and 
>move 100 feet away and find the level has changed 1000 fold, especially in 
>urban areas.

I suppose this means Correa must test with meters to be sure there is no 
significant ambient RF. Perhaps he did . . . I don't see anything about it 
in a quick review of his papers.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 14:58:44 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20689;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 14:53:37 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:53:37 -0700
Message-ID: <20020507215334.96226.qmail web11204.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:53:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507151149.03228c18 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"i4Dhz2.0.235.Wp4sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47058
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

--- Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com> wrote:
> Terry Blanton wrote:
> 
> >>does, and 0.4 W/kg would be more than enough to drive the
> Stirling 
> >>engine. However, this guideline is for people working in RF
> intense 
> >>environments.
> >
> >
> >Not really.  You probably come close to the max at times
> with your office 
> >near the PDK airport.
> 
> Great! So I can say the FAA is zapping my brain and I am not
> even paranoid. 
> To think they send policemen around when we try to fly a kite
> in the 
> parking lot! Yesterday they nearly ran me and my bicycle down
> with a fire 
> engine just because some guy couldn't lower his landing gear.
> 
> They Are Out To Get Me.
> 

You too?  Gee and I thought I did such a nice job on those
brain cells in collage..   Ya know so "they" wouldn't be
interested...
an I ain't paranoid ether.  Me nether. Nor me.

Guess I didn't try hard enough.

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 15:10:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28374;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 15:10:16 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:10:16 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetics
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:09:42 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <vnjgdugjueehkhkrc21mlthf8crabmdju3 4ax.com>
References: <m96fdukgoavnvtcoqdosvlsqegcvj8okbh 4ax.com> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMEEIEDDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMEEIEDDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA28337
Resent-Message-ID: <"-T59v3.0.Gx6.735sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47059
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Tue, 7 May 2002 13:39:28 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Hi Robin. 
>
>You write:
>>I just based it on the energy product of the magnetic material (in J/L),
>>and a guess at the volume of the magnet at 1 L. Then calculated how long
>>it would supply 96 Watts. I came up with about 5 seconds.
>
>OK. The max energy product is given by the point on the demagnetization
>curve where the product of B and H is a maximum. Consider a case
>where the magnet material is bent into a closed torroid shape. Given
>that all of the flux is contained inside the torroid, at remanence
>H will be zero. That means the energy stored in the torroid at
>saturation is zero????????

I'm afraid my approach was not based upon anything near so
sophisticated. It just goes like this. Strong magnets have a high energy
product, and non-magnets have none. Consequently one might assume that
when a strong magnet loses it's magnetism, any energy delivered comes
from the energy product (at least as long as one assumes that the magnet
is behaving like a battery). My gut feeling also says that this is on
the same order of magnitude as the amount of energy that went into
magnetising the magnet in the first place (conservation of energy).
[snip]
>to the field. And how emission is stimulated. I seem to remember
>Fred Epps had found some prior art in the patent literature which
>developed on this idea...
>
>K.
>
Yes, I mentioned one of them in my previous post.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 20:02:01 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03544;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 19:58:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:58:59 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:57:18 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <pf4hdu0oiao5m3kako6nveu13amn8rr508 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA03488
Resent-Message-ID: <"m7XY_3.0.It.oH9sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47060
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 07 May 2002 10:43:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Someone suggested that Correa's "Aetherometry" results are actually caused 
>by ambient RF energy. In other words, the Faraday cage intercepts all 
>wavelengths of RF energy from the surroundings and heats up, and this heat 
>drives the Stirling engine. 

That was me. Note that this includes EM from the house wiring (60 Hz),
and also sunlight. Note also that the radiative properties of some
surfaces can ensure that the temperature actually rises above that of
the surroundings in direct sunlight. This happens when the albedo is
different for short wavelengths than it is for long wavelengths. IOW the
object can absorb short wavelength light, but has more difficulty
radiating long wavelength heat. You might think of it as a sort of
implicit greenhouse effect.

>It is not clear to me how much energy it takes 
>to drives the Stirling engine, but in any case, the temperature difference 
>above the box was 1 or 2 degrees C, which indicates a considerable amount 
>of energy.

If the box is permanently left in the dark, how low does this difference
get?

>
>This hypothesis sounds implausible to me.

The effect of the house wiring is probably much greater than that of RF,
and the albedo effect just mentioned could easily swamp that of the
wiring.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May  7 20:32:22 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17950;
	Tue, 7 May 2002 20:29:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:29:51 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:29:14 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <km6hduoue2chsbhnlbldngqqjbiumvkiam 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA17902
Resent-Message-ID: <"4vT__1.0.OO4.kk9sy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47061
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 07 May 2002 10:43:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>In a related subject, here is an interesting article about these new 
>machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to transmit 
>incredible amounts of data over very short distances:
>
>http://www.sciam.com/2002/0502issue/0502leeper.html
>
>- Jed

I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by all accounts
was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even "pushed" it
while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 06:56:45 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22680;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 06:53:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 06:53:48 -0700
Message-ID: <20020508135346.19080.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <km6hduoue2chsbhnlbldngqqjbiumvkiam 4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"PbGpL.0.DY5.itIsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47062
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hay we have been dinking around with this stuff since summer of
95...

Only now the bureaucracies have been able to give it a name. 
This article is almost 7 years behind the edge.

--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 07 May 2002
> 10:43:12 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >In a related subject, here is an interesting article about
> these new 
> >machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to
> transmit 
> >incredible amounts of data over very short distances:
> >
> >http://www.sciam.com/2002/0502issue/0502leeper.html
> >
> >- Jed
> 
> I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by all
> accounts
> was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even
> "pushed" it
> while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
> Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> 
> ....Put the "bottom line" at the top!
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 07:23:04 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01504;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 07:19:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:19:59 -0700
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:19:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
In-Reply-To: <20020508135346.19080.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020508101857.3146B-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"VwtyC2.0.QN.EGJsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47063
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



On Wed, 8 May 2002, Charles Ford wrote:

> Hay we have been dinking around with this stuff since summer of
> 95...
> 


	these new
> >machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to
> transmit
> >incredible amounts of data over very short distances


	What does this refer to, please?





> Only now the bureaucracies have been able to give it a name. 
> This article is almost 7 years behind the edge.
> 
> --- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 07 May 2002
> > 10:43:12 -0400:
> > Hi,
> > [snip]
> > >In a related subject, here is an interesting article about
> > these new 
> > >machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to
> > transmit 
> > >incredible amounts of data over very short distances:
> > >
> > >http://www.sciam.com/2002/0502issue/0502leeper.html
> > >
> > >- Jed
> > 
> > I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by all
> > accounts
> > was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even
> > "pushed" it
> > while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
> > Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Robin van Spaandonk
> > 
> > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> > 
> > ....Put the "bottom line" at the top!
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> Charles Ford
> KC5-OWZ
> cjford1 yahoo.com
> cjford1 swbell.net
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 07:31:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06954;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 07:31:07 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:31:07 -0700
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:30:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "WILLIAM A. RHODES" <warlab@aztec.asu.edu>
Subject: Trace metal color reagent
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020508102513.3146D-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"cfz0x3.0.Wi1.hQJsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47064
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



	Dear folks,



	I am looking for references, sources, examples of colorimetric
type reagent tests for use in go-no go testing of trace amounts of
elemental metals:

	iron  lead  platinum copper zinc palladium and nickle


	I am not specifically interested in buying a "blind" test from a
vendor.... although will consider it IF the full nature and type of
reagent[s] are disclosed.  We need to see 1 ppm, parts per million as the
bottom resolution to determine trace metals contamination and NOT have to
send out or carry around XRF, AA ICP and so on with a test group.
	Trance metals will be in water from normal plumbing derived from
standard wells.  Some deep wells and some shallow.


		Thanks,
					JHS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 07:54:57 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15071;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 07:52:23 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:52:23 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c1f6b8$ebfb12c0$6157ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <km6hduoue2chsbhnlbldngqqjbiumvkiam@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:04:21 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"64OS5.0.Mh3.ckJsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47065
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 07 May 2002 10:43:12 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >In a related subject, here is an interesting article about these new
> >machines that transmit at all wavelengths, at low power, to transmit
> >incredible amounts of data over very short distances:
> >
> >http://www.sciam.com/2002/0502issue/0502leeper.html
> >
> >- Jed
>
> I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by all accounts
> was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even "pushed" it
> while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
> Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.
>

What is being referred to is "spread spectrum" communication, long used by
the military and making its way into civilian applications. Long distance
transmission can be accomplished with surprisingly low power if bandwidth is
sacrificed and the transmission rate is low, by using carefully matched
high-Q crystal filters that exclude all signals but the one frequency
transmitted. The opposite end is again to use low power but to modulate the
signal with a pseudo-noise stream generated by a random number generator
whose code is known to the receiver. Once the generator and receiver are
synchronized, the receiver performs on-the-fly autocorrelation on the noise
stream and extracts the signal. Without the code, the transmission just
appears as more background noise to any narrow band receiver.

Tesla is the true inventor of radio, acknowledged by a fundamental patent
issued by USPO in the mid-30's after a long battle. Tesla's patent has all
the essential elements and predates Marconi's work. Marconi was  as skillful
a publicist as Tesla and in many cases used Tesla devices in his
transmissions. The transoceanic transmission was a good publicity stunt, but
Tesla had accomplished wireless transmission years before that at about 5
kHz, and later in the tens of kHz. Tesla probably realized the advantages of
high frequency AC earlier and more clearly than any of his contemporaries
and built elegant high frequency, high power AC generators whose design
clearly shows that he knew what he was doing and did it very well. The Tesla
coil is better known, but it, too, is elegant in its design.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 13:19:34 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22180;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 13:15:53 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:15:53 -0700
X-Sent: 8 May 2002 20:15:17 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:15:18 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"1Xf8r2.0.UQ5.uTOsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47066
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

See:

http://www.iaea.or.at/worldatom/Periodicals/Bulletin/Bull392/arkhipov.html

A somewhat related essay about energy basics:

http://fire.pppl.gov/rubbia_iaea_2000.pdf

He made one major error. He forgot that wind power is not averaged out over 
the landscape. It is concentrated in a few geographical areas, like water 
flowing in rivers.

Interesting quote:

"Unfortunately the present nuclear power technology, essentially based on 
Light Water Reactors (LWR) operated mostly on enriched Uranium and thermal 
neutrons, is far from such an idealised expectation. Only the 235U (0.71%) 
of natural Uranium is directly fissile, of which about 60% is extracted by 
enrichment. Therefore only about h = 0.4% of the potential energy contained 
in the natural Uranium is energetically used.

For instance in order to produce 1 GWe x 30 years ~6.1 TWh one has to 
handle 4.50 x 10E7 ton of high content Uranium ores (2000 ppm), to be 
compared with 3.21 x 10E8 ton of coal mining for a Coal fired plant. The 
conclusion is that most of the "magic" nuclear factor of 3 x 10E6 of 
nuclear energy is, as of today, almost wiped out."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 14:21:00 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21011;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 14:18:25 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:18:25 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:17:51 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <6t4jdu4p4t6urapm1d7m9d2u8anju8pgsd 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020507095947.03322ae8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <km6hduoue2chsbhnlbldngqqjbiumvkiam@4ax.com> <000001c1f6b8$ebfb12c0$6157ccd1@asus>
In-Reply-To: <000001c1f6b8$ebfb12c0$6157ccd1 asus>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA20964
Resent-Message-ID: <"at6cc.0.D85.XOPsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47067
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Mike Carrell's message of Wed, 8 May 2002 09:04:21 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>> I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by all accounts
>> was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even "pushed" it
>> while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
>> Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.
>>
>
>What is being referred to is "spread spectrum" communication, long used by
>the military and making its way into civilian applications. Long distance
>transmission can be accomplished with surprisingly low power if bandwidth is
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is what I was referring to. Tesla researched both information and
energy transmission by pulses rather than continuous waves. He
specifically said it was not Herzian. Perhaps the real reason this
latest wide band technology is as efficient as it appears to be, is
because there is an extra effect thrown in that no one is aware of yet,
which is specifically related to pulse technology. Has anyone tried
measuring the signal transmission speed (or has that blindly been
assumed to be the speed of light)?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May  8 19:56:42 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12138;
	Wed, 8 May 2002 19:54:01 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:54:01 -0700
Message-ID: <20020509025358.1302.qmail web11204.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:53:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <6t4jdu4p4t6urapm1d7m9d2u8anju8pgsd 4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"6nvmE3.0.Qz2.8JUsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47068
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

We are aware of the effects.  They have been there all the time
but now we are able to process the relationships fast enough to
make a difference and we are able to use high enough
frequencies to offer huge bandwidths.

Even in a conventional AM wave the carrier contains no
information.  The information exists in the sidebands.  If you
do not leave room to receive the sidebands on your receiver you
will not be able to decode the modulation properly.

Early on we found that we can transmit only the sidebands
(DSBSC) or even only one sideband (SSB) and reproduce the
signal on the other side.  These signals are also non Hertzian.

With the more advanced signals we simply use more complex
encoding and decoding methods.  The the intelligence still is
not a part of the carrier but only a harmonically related
pattern of would otherwise be noise.   


--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> In reply to  Mike Carrell's message of Wed, 8 May 2002
> 09:04:21 -0700:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >> I see that Marconi rates a mention, but not Tesla, who by
> all accounts
> >> was a lot closer to this technology than Marconi, and even
> "pushed" it
> >> while denigrating the very technology that Marconi used.
> >> Perhaps now Tesla is being vindicated.
> >>
> >
> >What is being referred to is "spread spectrum"
> communication, long used by
> >the military and making its way into civilian applications.
> Long distance
> >transmission can be accomplished with surprisingly low power
> if bandwidth is
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> This is what I was referring to. Tesla researched both
> information and
> energy transmission by pulses rather than continuous waves.
> He
> specifically said it was not Herzian. Perhaps the real reason
> this
> latest wide band technology is as efficient as it appears to
> be, is
> because there is an extra effect thrown in that no one is
> aware of yet,
> which is specifically related to pulse technology. Has anyone
> tried
> measuring the signal transmission speed (or has that blindly
> been
> assumed to be the speed of light)?
> [snip]
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> 
> ....Put the "bottom line" at the top!
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 06:33:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04226;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 06:30:07 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:30:07 -0700
X-Sent: 9 May 2002 13:29:33 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020509092428.0323c550 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:29:35 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: SOMEWHAT OFF TOPIC Tragedy prompts collaborative research
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ldabu1.0.y11.Vddsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47069
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

See:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020425.html

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010830.html

It is a shame we cannot collaborate in CF, but physics and chemistry are 
not like engineering.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 07:00:18 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18313;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 06:57:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:57:09 -0700
X-Sent: 9 May 2002 13:56:33 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020509094833.0323d000 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:56:04 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Your house from above
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"efhcJ3.0.2U4.r0esy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47070
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I find this astounding, and fun:

http://www.globexplorer.com/

http://www.mapquest.com/

You can "fly" around the U.S. from your desktop. If you type in "Airport 
Road, Chamblee, GA you can see the airplanes and cars parked outside my 
office, but not my bicycle. I get an eerie feeling if I go outside and 
wave, you will see me.

Of course it isn't real time and the resolution is not that good . . . yet.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 10:20:24 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09943;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 10:16:47 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:16:47 -0700
X-Sent: 9 May 2002 17:16:12 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020509131222.00aa17f0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:16:08 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Gigantic free hydrogen reserves on earth?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"m-i3f3.0.ER2._xgsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47071
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

See:

http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=344

http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=346

This resembles the Thomas Gold "The Deep Hot Biosphere" hypothesis, but 
Friedeman Freund believes there is free hydrogen, which would be a heck of 
a lot cleaner and better than petrochemicals.

There does not seem to be much evidence for the Freund hypothesis.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 15:21:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19600;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 15:17:32 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:17:32 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:16:52 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <utslduon8ldgmml8qgm5lhotpeftrkrrt8 4ax.com>
References: <6t4jdu4p4t6urapm1d7m9d2u8anju8pgsd 4ax.com> <20020509025358.1302.qmail@web11204.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020509025358.1302.qmail web11204.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA19565
Resent-Message-ID: <"L6pny.0.4o4.sLlsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47072
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Wed, 8 May 2002 19:53:58 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]

>We are aware of the effects.  They have been there all the time
>but now we are able to process the relationships fast enough to
>make a difference and we are able to use high enough
>frequencies to offer huge bandwidths.
[snip]
>Early on we found that we can transmit only the sidebands
>(DSBSC) or even only one sideband (SSB) and reproduce the
>signal on the other side.  These signals are also non Hertzian.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This appears to be in conflict with...........  

>
>With the more advanced signals we simply use more complex
>encoding and decoding methods.  The the intelligence still is
>not a part of the carrier but only a harmonically related
>pattern of would otherwise be noise.   
                               ^^^^^ this, since the waves being used
SSB etc. are EM, albeit at different frequencies to that of the carrier.
By non-Herzian, Tesla meant that they were not electromagnetic in
nature. Please tell me I'm wrong, I would love to discover that mankind
has been aware of and using non-EM waves for decades, and I was just too
stupid to notice. :)

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 18:54:58 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17424;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 18:51:53 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:51:53 -0700
Message-ID: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <utslduon8ldgmml8qgm5lhotpeftrkrrt8 4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"IgGYq3.0.AG4.vUosy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47073
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>                                ^^^^^ this, since the waves
> being used
> SSB etc. are EM, albeit at different frequencies to that of
> the carrier.
> By non-Herzian, Tesla meant that they were not
> electromagnetic in
> nature. Please tell me I'm wrong, I would love to discover
> that mankind
> has been aware of and using non-EM waves for decades, and I
> was just too
> stupid to notice. :)
> 
I will not venture to gues at what Tesla meant.  These new
methods are all EM.  By "non Hertzian" we (engineers) are
saying that there is no specific definable frequency.  A birst
of data may contain a tremendos spread of spectrial content
but...  There is no carrier,  No frequency, nothing otherwise
detectable.  If you look on a spectrum analizer it apears as a
momentary rise in the noise floor.  Usually only a couple of db
and less then the natural variations.

If you did not know that you where transmiting you would not
even notice.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 22:48:00 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13378;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 22:45:13 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:45:13 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100307b9010edd109c [63.233.224.77]>
In-Reply-To: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:45:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"LWBWl2.0.uG3.fvrsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47074
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>>                                 ^^^^^ this, since the waves
>>  being used
>>  SSB etc. are EM, albeit at different frequencies to that of
>>  the carrier.
>>  By non-Herzian, Tesla meant that they were not
>>  electromagnetic in
>>  nature. Please tell me I'm wrong, I would love to discover
>>  that mankind
>>  has been aware of and using non-EM waves for decades, and I
>>  was just too
>>  stupid to notice. :)
>>
>I will not venture to gues at what Tesla meant.  These new
>methods are all EM.  By "non Hertzian" we (engineers) are
>saying that there is no specific definable frequency.  A birst
>of data may contain a tremendos spread of spectrial content
>but...  There is no carrier,  No frequency, nothing otherwise
>detectable.  If you look on a spectrum analizer it apears as a
>momentary rise in the noise floor.  Usually only a couple of db
>and less then the natural variations.
>
>If you did not know that you where transmiting you would not
>even notice.
>
>
>
>=====
>Charles Ford


-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May  9 23:06:06 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA22002;
	Thu, 9 May 2002 23:04:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:04:54 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100308b9010f121cd3 [63.233.224.77]>
In-Reply-To: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:05:13 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"gT0uS3.0.iN5.6Cssy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47075
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ups, I hit the send icon by mistake.

I posted the URL of a Professor Meyl who has scalar wave detectors 
available on his website, contact me if you want the URL.

I also recommend Hal Puthoff's patent on a scalar wave detector and 
the Gelinas Patents.

There is a professor who has graphic descriptions of waves on his website.

Let me know if any of this is of interest to you.

Thomas

>--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>  > By non-Herzian, Tesla meant that they were not
>>  electromagnetic in
>>  nature. Please tell me I'm wrong, I would love to discover
>>  that mankind
>  > has been aware of and using non-EM waves for decades, and I
>  >
>I will not venture to gues at what Tesla meant.  These new
>methods are all EM.  By "non Hertzian" we (engineers) are
>saying that there is no specific definable frequency.  A birst
>of data may contain a tremendos spread of spectrial content
>but...  There is no carrier,  No frequency, nothing otherwise
>detectable.  If you look on a spectrum analizer it apears as a
>momentary rise in the noise floor.  Usually only a couple of db
>and less then the natural variations.
>
>If you did not know that you where transmiting you would not
>even notice.
>=====
>Charles Ford
>


-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 07:28:06 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16651;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 07:24:18 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:24:18 -0700
X-Sent: 10 May 2002 14:23:43 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020510102224.031cf780 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:23:47 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: ICCF9 highlights
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"OJEPi2.0.544.IWzsy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47076
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


[From Dr. Li]
Dear Friends and Colleagues,

I would like to give some highlights for both academic and cultural parts 
of ICCF9 here. Monnday morning(May 20)will start with Fleischmann's talk 
(1960's-1980's-1989--) followed by De Ninno's experimental justification 
and Prof. Jiudice's theory, Ararta's work (Loading Ratio greater than 3 in 
Sonoimplantation) in parallel with Mckubre's experiments and Chubb's 
explanation; Dr. Passell's work for Li-7/Li-6 anomalous ratio. Tuesday 
morning Prof. Miley , Dr. Case, Dr. Miles and Li shall talk about the 
reproducible "excess heat"...... The nuclear nature of LENR and the 
reproducibility will be supported by more compelling evidences. 
Dr.Taleyarkhan of ORNL sent us his best wishes for a very successful 
conference. He would have liked to provide a lecture if we had sent him the 
invitation 25 days earlier.

The local tours are calling for registration in the New "LOCAL TOUR" page 
of the Website :http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn. It was designed to 
avoid any duplication with the Great Wall Tour on Wednesday(May 22). It 
also provides the time for shopping in the old cultural sites and the newly 
developed "silk road" on Friday.

If you need the telephone number and FAX number for your family before your 
leaving, you may use my telephone number and FAX number(86-10-6278-4343) 
until you enter your room in the Tsinghua International Convention 
Center(i.e. the Hotel).This number works 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 
have an answering machine service.
If your flight arrives at Beijing late in the evening, please tell us in 
advance. We will make special effort to assist you although this Hotel is 
supposed to receive guests 24 hours a day. . . .

Sincerely yours,

Li, Xing Zhong (lxz-dmp tsinghua.edu.cn)
http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 13:39:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29700;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 13:35:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:35:09 -0700
Message-ID: <3CDC27A5.4719698C ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:03:49 -0700
From: Akira Kawasaki <aki ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: [Fwd: What's New for May 10, 2002]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"yxjEJ2.0.zF7.yx2ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47077
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for May 10, 2002
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 10 May 02   Washington, DC

1. SECRECY: VISAS TO STUDY "SENSITIVE" TOPICS WILL BE SCREENED. 
It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to light the fuse on a shoe
bomb, but nevertheless, after 9/11 the State Department updated
its list of areas of study that are regarded as "sensitive."  The
White House proposed to deny student visas in any of the 16 areas
on the list.  That got the attention of the academic community,
which explained just how dependent the U.S. scientific enterprise
is on foreign scientific talent.  The administration backed down
a bit, announcing on Tuesday that a presidential directive will
create IPASS, the Interagency Panel for Science and Security,
which will evaluate visa applications based on the nationality of
the student, the area of study, and the nature of any research
being conducted at the institution.  According to OSTP director
John Marburger, IPASS will rely heavily on information from the
intelligence agencies.  Using terrorism as a justification, the
dissemination of unclassified information is being restricted. 
In December, certain biology journals were pressured to withhold
information (WN 22 Feb 02).  Last week we reported on a Pentagon
plan to control unclassified information (WN 3 May 02). 

2. NSF: BILL INTRODUCED TO DOUBLE THE BUDGET IN FIVE YEARS.  The
National Science Foundation Authorization Act of 2002 (H.R.4664),
would provide a 15 percent increase in the NSF budget next year
and put it on track for doubling in five years.  This is a major
achievement, made possible by the cooperation of the academic and
industrial communities.  The bill has a long way to go, and it is
only an authorization.  Any money must still be appropriated. 
Nevertheless, it's an essential first step and appears to have
strong support in the House.  The doubling of the NIH budget,
which is expected to be completed this year, began the same way. 

3. YUCCA MOUNTAIN: HOUSE BACKS THE NUCLEAR WASTE REPOSITORY.  The
vote was an overwhelming 306-117.  The debate carefully avoided
logic on both sides.  When opponents warned of the catastrophic
consequences of possible leaks, Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX), who is a
supporter, responded, "We're all going to die."  It was perhaps
the only scientifically defensible statement of the day, but it
failed to reassure anyone.  It won't be that easy in the Senate.  

4. DEPRESSED?  MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY AN M&M.  According to a story 
in the Washington Post this week, a new analysis found that in
the majority of trials conducted by drug companies, sugar pills
did as well, or better, than antidepressants such as Prozac,
Paxil and Zoloft.  This is not to say the antidepressants didn't
work, they did, but so did placebos.  In fact, brain imaging
showed the placebos affected the same areas of the brain as the
prescription antidepressants.  This may be telling us that if the
problem is in your head, the cure is probably in the same place.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the authors and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 13:52:02 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09044;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 13:50:57 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:50:57 -0700
X-Sent: 10 May 2002 20:50:24 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020510164755.031d1600 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:50:17 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Jean-Paul Biberian on-line papers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"uSro03.0.9D2.mA3ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47078
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Here are two papers on line by Biberian, without dates:

http://fusion-froide.homeip.net/

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 16:52:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19658;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 16:51:57 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:51:57 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:51:25 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <06nodu0eehojr0d4anjvdtoj8g7a8uogql 4ax.com>
References: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com> <a05100308b9010f121cd3@[63.233.224.77]>
In-Reply-To: <a05100308b9010f121cd3 [63.233.224.77]>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA19627
Resent-Message-ID: <"deZGF.0.4p4.Sq5ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47080
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  thomas malloy's message of Fri, 10 May 2002 01:05:13 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>There is a professor who has graphic descriptions of waves on his website.

This would interest me, if you have the URL.
[snip]
TIA,


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 16:53:42 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18349;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 16:49:02 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:49:02 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:48:29 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <jmmoduobm44715bo8rodnmf87if1utlv4g 4ax.com>
References: <utslduon8ldgmml8qgm5lhotpeftrkrrt8 4ax.com> <20020510015146.2626.qmail@web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020510015146.2626.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA18306
Resent-Message-ID: <"K4Ciw.0.ZU4.kn5ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47079
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Thu, 9 May 2002 18:51:46 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>I will not venture to gues at what Tesla meant.  These new
>methods are all EM.  

Are you really sure of this (perhaps there is a separate mechanism
playing a role, that no one is looking for)? What is the official
explanation for the "surprising" efficiency of transmission?

>By "non Hertzian" we (engineers) are
>saying that there is no specific definable frequency.  A birst
>of data may contain a tremendos spread of spectrial content
>but...  There is no carrier,  No frequency, nothing otherwise
>detectable.  If you look on a spectrum analizer it apears as a
>momentary rise in the noise floor.  Usually only a couple of db
>and less then the natural variations.
>
>If you did not know that you where transmiting you would not
>even notice.
>
Next question: I have seen discussion on interference with narrow band
transmissions (in both directions), but no discussion of interference
between different UWB transmitters (or maybe I just got lost in the
techno-babbel). Has this been measured/calculated?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 10 20:06:07 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18103;
	Fri, 10 May 2002 20:02:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:02:58 -0700
Message-ID: <20020511030255.13681.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <jmmoduobm44715bo8rodnmf87if1utlv4g 4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"490FX1.0.nQ4.Yd8ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47081
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

--- Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Thu, 9 May 2002
> 18:51:46 -0700:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >I will not venture to gues at what Tesla meant.  These new
> >methods are all EM.  
> 
> Are you really sure of this (perhaps there is a separate
> mechanism
> playing a role, that no one is looking for)? What is the
> official
> explanation for the "surprising" efficiency of transmission?

The efficiency is not surprising.  At least not if you work out
the power distribution.  If you allow yourself to close the
bandwidth to a very high Q you can get the same performance
from CW transmission.

> >By "non Hertzian" we (engineers) are
> >saying that there is no specific definable frequency.  A
> birst
> >of data may contain a tremendos spread of spectrial content
> >but...  There is no carrier,  No frequency, nothing
> otherwise
> >detectable.  If you look on a spectrum analizer it apears as
> a
> >momentary rise in the noise floor.  Usually only a couple of
> db
> >and less then the natural variations.
> >
> >If you did not know that you where transmiting you would not
> >even notice.
> >
> Next question: I have seen discussion on interference with
> narrow band
> transmissions (in both directions), but no discussion of
> interference
> between different UWB transmitters (or maybe I just got lost
> in the
> techno-babbel). Has this been measured/calculated?
> 

There probably is interference.  It is almost impossible to
define as the "signal" is excessively weird.  I imagine as the
technology begins to become exploited you will experience loss
of performance just as the range of a cordless phone is less in
an apartment complex then in an open field.

Anyway.  It is all EM.  You might also note the use of
conventional wide band antennas.  

Has anybody figured out a usable antenna for longitudinal waves yet?

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 11 17:40:14 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24246;
	Sat, 11 May 2002 17:37:01 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:37:01 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is normal ambient RF power?
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:36:30 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <e4erdu87s676vl7d895lb5pro931amghi1 4ax.com>
References: <jmmoduobm44715bo8rodnmf87if1utlv4g 4ax.com> <20020511030255.13681.qmail@web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020511030255.13681.qmail web11203.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA24216
Resent-Message-ID: <"zIiud3.0.iw5.jaRty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47082
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Fri, 10 May 2002 20:02:55 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Has anybody figured out a usable antenna for longitudinal waves yet?
I think T.T. Brown might have had one, with a heavy spherical mass
surrounded by a conducting sphere (though I have no personal experience
with this, so I have no idea whether it actually worked or not).

[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 11 20:58:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAB21565;
	Sat, 11 May 2002 20:55:33 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:55:33 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:55:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Philadelphia Experiment and single "DC" pulses
In-Reply-To: <3CCCC44B.6311 freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020511202358.1203A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"0gN7w2.0.nG5.qUUty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47083
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 cara freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> The question that bears on my mind is: If [project rainbow] wasn't
> tried, then where did the idea come from?  The details of the story may
> well have become twisted, but the basic premise has to have some truth
> to it.

Nah.  An intentional hoaxer can make up extremely complicated stuff. 
Science Fiction stories are as realistic as anything in the alt-sciences,
the only difference is that the author doesn't say "this really happened." 
We should never say "there HAS to be a grain of truth to this" just
because a story is large and complicated.  Some people swear that the
Philadelphia Experiment was a lie; that it was just some disinformation
made up by the military to hide the Manhattan Project.

On the other hand, Vassilatos has some very interesting Philadelphia
Experiment stuff in his recent 1999 book LOST SCIENCE.  He claims that the
original effect was discovered when metal tools near a gigantic WWII
industrial welder started vanishing.  The welder employed cap-discharge. 
I've never heard this part of the story before.  The military filmed the
tools vanishing, but they had convinced themselves that the tools were
vaporizing.  But they couldn't find any metal vapor.  He says that there
were optical effects too: a zone of "blackness" during the pulse. He also
says that TT Brown was pulled in on the project and clued them in on the
"space warp" side of things, which made them start looking at
weaponization (driving whole cities insane, etc.)  Brown supposedly talked
them around to using it for invisibility instead of killing.  See
pp253-269 in "Lost Science."  I tracked down the book in the local New Age
bookstore because it also has stuff on Tesla. 

  Lost Science, 1999
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0945685254/

The most interesting part was Vassilatos' claim that the effect only
appears for DC pulses!  ...and also that it can be eliminated by a second
pulse with the current reversed.  THAT'S IT!  That's the perfect
explanation for why nobody stumbles across these things while playing with
cap-discharge:  capacitors normally give out a ringing AC wave.  To get a
single DC pulse, either you need a high-speed quench circuit to turn off
the spark gap after the first cycle of current, or you need a gigantic
series resistor which damps the ringing (but which isn't destroyed by the
immense pulse.)

Electrolytic caps might have enough internal resistance to give DC pulses. 
Below is a hobbyist who may actually have stumbled across the desktop
version of Project Rainbow.  He even mentions Vassilatos' claimed effect
where a reversed pulse will cancel out the spacewarp and "flip" the metal
object back into reality again. 

  Vanishing Paperclip
  http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/exper.html#clip


PS, if the capacitor stack in "Electric Rocket" is actually a Brown
Cellular Gravitator, then we need to drive it with single DC pulses, NOT
with DC high voltage and NOT with a normal (ringing) cap discharge.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 12 04:42:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28374;
	Sun, 12 May 2002 04:37:13 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 04:37:13 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 07:39:00 -0700
Subject: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD Invention
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B903CC94.28C9%editor infinite-energy.com>
In-Reply-To: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ENMix3.0.Ax6.fFbty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47084
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is an excellent report by Dr. Aspden on the Correa PAGD electric
generator.

Gene Mallove
------ Forwarded Message
From: Aetherometry Info <info aetherometry.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:24:20 -0400
To: announcements aetherometry.com
Subject: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD Invention
Resent-From: announcements aetherometry.com
Resent-Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:24:30 -0400

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

AKRONOS Publishing has the pleasure to announce the publication,
on the Akronos website, of Dr. Harold Asdpen's extensive Opinion
on the Correa PAGD invention.  This Opinion, which has never before
been publicly available, can be accessed at:

     http://www.aetherometry.com/aspden_opinion.html
     

Yours,

Laura McFinlay
Akronos Publishing

------ End of Forwarded Message

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 12 06:29:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA16137;
	Sun, 12 May 2002 06:26:34 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:26:34 -0700
Message-ID: <3CDE99BC.4E96 bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:35:08 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20  (Win16; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Strangelets - Danger from Space!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"KHe1G1.0.yx3.9scty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47085
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

<http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/05/12/wnugg12.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/05/12/ixworld.html>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 12 09:47:21 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27514;
	Sun, 12 May 2002 09:41:56 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:41:56 -0700
From: Erikbaard aol.com
Message-ID: <1a1.2225f6e.2a0ff52e aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:41:18 EDT
Subject: biodiesel story in the ny times
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10503
Resent-Message-ID: <"mv6ly2.0.qj6.Kjfty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47086
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All - 

Some of you asked to let you know when my story on biodiesel would be 
published in the NY Times.  Well, after many delays, shortenings, etc. it's 
there.  Nothing shocking, but maybe a useful backgrounder.  Some salient 
facts (like CO2 reductions and NOX increases from this fuel) were cut, but 
such is life.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/12/business/yourmoney/12BIOD.html

Hope all of you are well.

Erik

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 13 09:00:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18772;
	Mon, 13 May 2002 08:54:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:54:49 -0700
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:53:14 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: The Dark Ages, Eta Carinae, and ...
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-id: <000f01c1fa96$4af20d20$8837fea9 computer>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"jXsP-.0.1b4.77-ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47087
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The Dark Ages, Eta Carinae, and ...

A speculative appraisal of recent Hubble and Chandra observations


Would the tragic death of 3 billion (with a "b") humans, say - in an early
decade of the 21st century, qualify as fulfillment of biblical prophesy, a
"millennium event"?

Impossible! you say? Well, consider that within recent world history, we could
have already witnessed just such a disaster.

To be more precise, there occurred rather recently a catastrophe of
corresponding magnitude in terms of percentage loss of human life. For some
reason, both present day evangelists (when prophesizing millennium) and many
scientists as well, either minimize that particular event's importance, or are
ignorant of its enormity. Alarmingly, this oversight may serve to deprive us of
some degree of preparation, inasmuch as that prior event may be cyclical and
therefore prophetic in its own right.

The Dark Ages, that horrible period beginning in 536 A.D., was not just a time
of barbarism, crop failures, disease, cultural stagnation, and the
disintegration of order : according to experts, within ten years from its
inception half of the world's population perished. Half of today's world
population is... well, you know the numbers.

Now fast forward your mental projector to the Southern Hemisphere.

There is a super-massive star called Eta Carinae in the Carina Constellation
that is one of the most enigmatic and potentially dangerous objects in our
galaxy. It is located away from our view to the south, but that doesn't
necessarily make North America safe. Although it is currently the brightest and
most massive stellar object in our galaxy, putting out more radiation than five
million suns, it could possibly have already shed a third of its mass some 1500
years ago. And  just 40 years ago it was invisible to the naked eye. That's
right, invisible!

Eta Carinae is a singularity, a one-of-a kind that has waxed and waned on a
cycle that may have some regularity. 150 years ago, it once again flared up -
almost like a supernova explosion, but the star survived, maybe even grew. The
cycle seems to involve some type of recurring instability we just haven't
figured out yet - but EC is NOT a supernova and is perhaps too large to even
become one. Between 1837 and 1856 it increased dramatically in apparent
brightness to become the brightest star in the sky from our viewpoint except for
Sirius, even though it is eighty times more distant from earth. Then suddenly it
all but disappeared from view till recently, and it is now increasing in
brightness once again. This is a putative cycle that may be as low as 170-190
years. But complicating the problem is  the fact that some cycles seem to be
skipped, at least from Earth's viewpoint.

We know there is an apparent connectivity between asteroid impacts and mass
extinctions on Earth. But could there also exist a cosmic link with less
apparent forms of energy - transferred from far greater distances, such as
"gravity waves" or perhaps laser-like hard x-ray emission or "mini black holes,"
energy transfer that don't diminish with distance-squared? This star, Eta
Carinae is so distant, 7500 light years, that we should be spatially insulated
from it, but maybe not. More on that later.

More to the point, are these two apparently unrelated subjects - the Dark Ages
and distant star implosions (or any other regular cosmic event) somehow
connected? In some sense, this essay is using Eta Carinae as a metaphor or
"whipping boy" for a variety of cosmic predators such as "nemesis" our Sun's
reputed companion "death star."  Any of these lesser-known cosmic objects can
themselves be the ultimate (but perhaps more predictable) trigger for earthly
catastrophes that have previously been labeled as "natural" disasters (in the
sense of unpredictable). But in the future, if we can discover any degree of
underlying predictability, it may be to our advantage, even critical to our
survival as a species.

For the answer to whether or not there is some degree of cosmic connectivity, we
must begin by delving into the underlying immediate cause(s) of the Dark Ages.
And there are no shortage of theories of what triggered the Dark Ages, most of
which involve a domino effect that begins with a "natural" cataclysmic event,
then escalates into weather changes, then to crop failures, then to the plague
and so on. Drought plays a major role. Based on archaeological findings in
Greece, Professor Stephen Miller of UC Berkeley has found substantial evidence
to support the drought theory. But prior to drought he believes that climate
changes were brought on by supervolcanism.

Supervolcanism is an emerging scientific field that transcends normal volcanism.
It is becoming a separate field of inquiry because so many things change when a
phenomena is multiplied by orders of magnitude. Within the bounds of normal
volcanism, for instance, a Vesuvius will erupt periodically and you loose a few
cities. In supervolcanism, a Krakatoa (or a Yellowstone) will erupt more
infrequently, but thereafter, our whole planet changes in unpredictable ways,
even triggering or ending major or mini ice ages.

Miller says the written eyewitness accounts that survived from Rome,
Constantinople, Mesopotamia and China agree that in March 536 A.D., the sun
disappeared for between 15 and 18 months, and left behind a very cold and very
different Earth. The trigger for the disappearance of the sun and resultant
drought is said by Miller and others to have been a major volcanic eruption in
New Guinea that cloaked the skies in dust. Science writer David Keys affirms
that the stunningly complex chain of events begins on Krakatoa, with a volcanic
explosion equal to "two billion Hiroshima size bombs." The subsequent
environmental calamity, he believes, may even have played a major role in such
disparate changes as  the collapse of several South American cultures and the
rise of a struggling religion, Islam.

A recent PBS documentary on supervolcanism has pinpointed the whole 1000 sq. mi.
Yellowstone protrusion as a future supervolcano site - one that is in an
expansion stage and primed to explode. But supervolcanism may not be the end of
the story of the cause of last Dark Ages, nor even a good warning tool for
predicting the next one. The may exist an even more exotic trigger for
supervolcanism itself, a cosmic trigger. Perhaps we should begin to paint on a
larger palette.

It has been suggested that our Sun has an invisible companion star called
"nemesis" that can trigger meteor showers and possibly tidal changes in the Sun
that affect its energy output. And of course, a meteor impact can trigger
supervolcanism. Such may have happened with the "Deccan" eruptions 65 million
years ago.

But the periodicity of Nemesis seems far too long to account for less dramatic
disasters in modern times. There is overwhelming evidence that cosmic forces are
at work in even small climate changes. For example, the last mini ice age
(1645 -1715) occurred at the same time as a prolonged period of very low
activity in the Sun. This was not coincidental, and even if that particular mini
ice age had been triggered by a volcano, reduced solar activity would have
played a part. A previous mini ice age started in 1280 but lasted much longer
than the usual 40-50 years. Although a putative 170-190  year period for Eta
Carinae might fit here, most likely it is  just coincidental - and we should be
aware that  any determined statistician can coax a "fit" with a limited data
set. But cautious observers should also be a little concerned as to whether the
reappearance of Eta Carinae in the southern sky is a predictor of an earthly
supervolcano in the next decade.

By the way, the Maya, who had a pretty good understanding of astronomy and a
view of the Carina constellation, predicted the end of the present Great Cycle
as occurring on December 21, 2012 A.D. So far as we know, they didn't
specifically implicate Eta Carinae, but then again, most of their beautifully
illustrated documents were destroyed by the invading Spanish priests as being
"pagan abominations."

So the larger question becomes, "is there any relatively frequent periodic
cosmic trigger to either our Sun's activity, or to supervolcanism, or to both?
Could Eta Carinae, even as distant as it is, cause fluctuations in our Suns
activity and/or trigger supervolcanism on earth? If there is such a thing as
"gravity waves" would they traverse 7000 light years of space without the normal
"distance squared" diminution, in order to interact with unstable magma to
instigate supervolcanism.

We have just started to look at the full range of astronomical periodicity in
these earthly catastrophes, but the archaeological record should also be
employed to fill in the picture of a past for which astronomical evidence is
thin. Eta Carinae has a 5.5 year minor period that is associated with a possible
companion star, but it may possess longer regular pulsation period - this is
where our record is too thin to be sure. And certainly there are more objects
out there that could affect Earth than those we have identified.  Also there is
the issue of delayed cause and effect. For instance, very unusual solar flare
activity peaks around 1862 showering Earth with large amounts of what is later
identified as gamma radiation. This is 5 years after the peak visible effects of
the Eta Carinae flare-up that "ended" in 1857.

It is suspected (from a halo of ejected nebula material) that Eta Carinae was
active around 500 A.D., near the time of the Krakatoa supervolcanism that
triggered the Dark Ages. Krakatoa again erupted in 1883, in one of the largest
eruptions in recent time but not a supervolcano. This was more than 25 years
after Eta Carinae had reappeared and waned, so ostensibly there appears a
significant gap in connecting  the two events. But can we be sure the two are
unconnected?

The jury is still out on whether the events are connected at all, or perhaps
connected by means our Sun as an intermediary, or more likely whether there is
some other unknown, more local influence like a "nemesis" star or protostar,
acting alone of in harmony. The figures say  Eta Carinae is 7500 light years
away, so even if its mass were several hundred solar masses, it would have less
than a billion times the gravitational influence on the Sun that Earth does,
normally too little to have any major effect... unless:

1) The star (EC or another candidate object) has an immense magnetic field
2) The discharge is strictly a polar emission that is directed and focused by
the star's immense magnetic field so that it becomes a focused laser-like beam
with minimum spread, exiting from the star's poles, and
3) Our sun at the critical point in time (such as 535 AD) happened to be
traveling in the direct line of sight of the focused beam emission....
4) Or...There exists in nature a "gravity wave" that propagates through space
with less diminution than gravity itself, somewhat like a tidal wave on earth.

Recent Hubble and Chandra observations of Eta Carinae (NASA appears to be
expending an incredible amount of its resources on this one star) have confirmed
it to be the most luminous object in our galaxy - even when it is not visible
from Earth and despite its having recently shed a third of its mass. It radiates
at the rate of several million Suns, most of the radiation being at infrared
wavelengths from dust in its nebula which was expelled approximately 1500 years
ago. Astronomers still do not know what lies at the heart of Eta Carinae and it
may be just end up being the most extreme example of a luminous blue variable -
a stage in the evolution of the most massive stars. Such a star can produce
intense amounts of radiation  as it explodes in a supernova, possibly a
"hypernova," a type of explosion that has been hypothesized to produce intense
gamma ray bursts.

An interesting read, if you can find it, is Paolo Maffei's ".Monsters in the
Sky" MIT Press 1980. Maffei suggests Eta Carinae might have been the Sumerian
"Star of Ea" mentioned in ancient Mesopotamian documents as warning the Sumerian
"Noah" about an impending flood. Once the star becomes better known, of course,
it is just a matter of time before some fringe evangelist will also link it to
another prophetic event that occurred two millenniums ago.

end of draft

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 13 11:06:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11557;
	Mon, 13 May 2002 11:03:10 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:03:10 -0700
X-Sent: 13 May 2002 18:02:28 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:02:08 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: biodiesel story in the ny times
In-Reply-To: <1a1.2225f6e.2a0ff52e aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZxLJZ.0.Rq2.T__ty" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47088
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I read this in the Times. I think I will ask Dr. Pimentel whether he thinks 
there is a significant net gain in energy from this source. His numbers for 
ethanol and methanol indicate there is a substantial net loss. (Chapter 19) 
Based on ERAB, NAP and USDA statistics, he estimates it takes 131,017 Btu 
of fossil fuel to make 1 gallon of ethanol, which produces only 76,000 Btu.

Ethanol production costs the U.S. taxpayers $750 million in direct 
subsidies, and probably billions more in higher oil prices, waste and 
pollution. 2.2 billion gallons of ethanol are produced, which means we have 
import and throw away about 3 billion gallons of oil and natural gas. 
Ethanol factories produce 160 gallons of polluted wastewater for every 
gallon of ethanol. The production of useless surplus corn erodes 9 
tons/acre per year of topsoil, and uses up aquifer water 25% faster than 
the water is replaced. All in all, ethanol is an environmentalist's worst 
nightmare.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 13 16:07:45 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32536;
	Mon, 13 May 2002 16:04:03 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:04:03 -0700
From: "Dean T. Miller" <dtmiller midiowa.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Dark Ages, Eta Carinae, and ...
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:04:12 -0500
Organization: Miller and Associates
Message-ID: <19h0euciqilnn9f0dr4sqtk089n45rsccv 4ax.com>
References: <000f01c1fa96$4af20d20$8837fea9 computer>
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1fa96$4af20d20$8837fea9 computer>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA32479
Resent-Message-ID: <"lIx6R2.0.Fy7.YP4uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47089
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mon, 13 May 2002 08:53:14 -0700, Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
wrote:

>The Dark Ages, Eta Carinae, and ...

>Astronomers still do not know what lies at the heart of Eta Carinae and it
>may be just end up being the most extreme example of a luminous blue variable -
>a stage in the evolution of the most massive stars. 
  <snip>
>An interesting read, if you can find it, is Paolo Maffei's ".Monsters in the
>Sky" MIT Press 1980. Maffei suggests Eta Carinae might have been the Sumerian
>"Star of Ea" mentioned in ancient Mesopotamian documents as warning the Sumerian
>"Noah" about an impending flood. 

Hmm.  Could this be the Hopi's "Blue Star Kachina" and other
prophecies of two suns in the sky?

-- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 13 21:15:26 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11485;
	Mon, 13 May 2002 21:12:34 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:12:34 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:13:32 -0400
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-Id: <E177Tfq-0004qG-00 pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Resent-Message-ID: <"cGNTT3.0.Np2.ow8uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47090
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wednesday 08 May 2002 16:15, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> See:
>
> http://www.iaea.or.at/worldatom/Periodicals/Bulletin/Bull392/arkhipov.html
>
> A somewhat related essay about energy basics:
>
> http://fire.pppl.gov/rubbia_iaea_2000.pdf
>
> He made one major error. He forgot that wind power is not averaged out over
> the landscape. It is concentrated in a few geographical areas, like water
> flowing in rivers.
>
> Interesting quote:
>
> "Unfortunately the present nuclear power technology, essentially based on
> Light Water Reactors (LWR) operated mostly on enriched Uranium and thermal
> neutrons, is far from such an idealised expectation. Only the 235U (0.71%)
> of natural Uranium is directly fissile, of which about 60% is extracted by
> enrichment. Therefore only about h = 0.4% of the potential energy contained
> in the natural Uranium is energetically used.
>
> For instance in order to produce 1 GWe x 30 years ~6.1 TWh one has to
> handle 4.50 x 10E7 ton of high content Uranium ores (2000 ppm), to be
> compared with 3.21 x 10E8 ton of coal mining for a Coal fired plant. The
> conclusion is that most of the "magic" nuclear factor of 3 x 10E6 of
> nuclear energy is, as of today, almost wiped out."
>
> - Jed

aren't you forgetting about the breeder cycle?
Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 13 22:59:26 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06682;
	Mon, 13 May 2002 22:56:27 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:56:27 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100313b90655686b8d [63.233.224.77]>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:56:46 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: biodiesel story in the ny times
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"RFjWn.0.Ge1.BSAuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47091
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Have you considered the alternative Jed? Have you heard of tertiary 
butyl ether? Ethanol is a fuel additive, Of the three, ethanol, TBE, 
and tetra ethyl lead, ethanol is clean, Also it helps keep me 
employed.

>  131,017 Btu of fossil fuel to make 1 gallon of ethanol, which 
>produces only 76,000 Btu.
>
>faster than the water is replaced. All in all, ethanol is an 
>environmentalist's worst nightmare.
>
>- Jed


-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 14 05:31:37 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17768;
	Tue, 14 May 2002 05:28:56 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:28:56 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE1030E.2010502 pbtta.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:29:02 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: biodiesel story in the ny times
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <a05100313b90655686b8d@[63.233.224.77]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"znhao2.0.SL4.7CGuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47092
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

thomas malloy wrote:

> Have you considered the alternative Jed? Have you heard of tertiary 
> butyl ether? Ethanol is a fuel additive, Of the three, ethanol, TBE, 
> and tetra ethyl lead, ethanol is clean, Also it helps keep me employed. 


Bartender?  <hiccup>

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 14 06:37:30 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22265;
	Tue, 14 May 2002 06:34:37 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:34:37 -0700
X-Sent: 14 May 2002 13:34:02 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:32:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
In-Reply-To: <E177Tfq-0004qG-00 pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"0OSg13.0.gR5.i9Huy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47093
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Standing Bear wrote:

> > For instance in order to produce 1 GWe x 30 years ~6.1 TWh one has to
> > handle 4.50 x 10E7 ton of high content Uranium ores (2000 ppm), to be
> > compared with 3.21 x 10E8 ton of coal mining for a Coal fired plant. The
> > conclusion is that most of the "magic" nuclear factor of 3 x 10E6 of
> > nuclear energy is, as of today, almost wiped out."
> >
>
>aren't you forgetting about the breeder cycle?

That was Carlo Rubbia, not me, and I am sure he did not forget the breeder 
cycle. He was discussing technology already existing and implemented, not 
potential solutions. He does not mention breeder reactors in the essay, 
however. Perhaps he does not think they would work well?

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 14 06:55:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32721;
	Tue, 14 May 2002 06:53:23 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:53:23 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE116C5.8080701 pbtta.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:53:09 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Pioneer's Slowing Explained
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"4JFPq1.0.c-7.HRHuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47094
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The electrical field created by the anode Sol retards the motion of an 
outward bound, negatively charged Pioneer 10:

http://www.holoscience.com/news/mystery_solved.html

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 14 07:11:32 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08884;
	Tue, 14 May 2002 07:08:37 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:08:37 -0700
X-Sent: 14 May 2002 14:08:02 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514094801.031d21c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:07:52 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: biodiesel story in the ny times
In-Reply-To: <a05100313b90655686b8d [63.233.224.77]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"glsfY2.0.gA2.afHuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47095
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

thomas malloy wrote:

>Have you considered the alternative Jed? Have you heard of tertiary butyl 
>ether? Ethanol is a fuel additive, Of the three, ethanol, TBE, and tetra 
>ethyl lead, ethanol is clean . . .

Clean?!? It is filthy! To make 1 gallon we have to burn 1.7 gallons of oil 
and gas equivalent, pollute 160 gallons of water, and wash away 33 kg of 
topsoil (assuming 110 bu corn per acre; 2.5 gallons ethanol per bushel). If 
this is clean, what would be dirty? Obviously it would be better not to use 
any fuel additives. If you could show that Pimentel's numbers are 
incorrect, you might have a valid argument, but assuming these numbers are 
accurate ethanol is probably the most polluting energy "source" ever 
developed. Actually, it is not a source, it is an energy drain. As an 
"additive" it might make fuel marginally cleaner, but it makes the air and 
earth in other places much dirtier.

This reminds me a little of the movements in the 1980s to have people wash 
labels off of glass bottles before recycling them. Imagine a million people 
standing at kitchen sinks running hot water and using scrubbing brushes to 
fill the sewers with paper and glue!


>, Also it helps keep me employed.

That may interfere with your objectivity.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 14 13:59:11 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18992;
	Tue, 14 May 2002 13:55:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:55:15 -0700
X-Sent: 14 May 2002 20:54:38 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 16:54:38 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD
  Invention
In-Reply-To: <B903CC94.28C9%editor infinite-energy.com>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"lnydP1.0.ge4.ocNuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47096
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Aspden is a remarkable person who knows a great deal about patents. He is 
the only researcher whose comments about aether make any sense to me. 
Evidently he understands and finds some merit in Correa's claims. He is 
cautious, however, saying in the introduction:

". . . apart from witnessing a demonstration of the apparatus and 
performing tests over a protracted period to fully verify the data reported 
by Dr. Correa, there is little I can do at this stage other than provide 
this preliminary evaluation of the intrinsic merit of the inventions and 
comment on the value of the patent rights relying on reference to these 
patent disclosures."

Later he is more positive:

". . . Institutional professors will say that what is claimed is not 
possible, because they cannot understand why it should be possible. I say 
that the evidence of record from Spence in U. K., from Chernetskii in 
Russia and now from the Correas in Canada, more than suggests that those 
professors are all wrong. I go further in saying that the source of that 
energy has been explained but it takes proof of the phenomenon before those 
professors can bring themselves to read the scientific papers that offer 
that explanation. I see that proof in the Correa research findings and I 
trust that the preliminary opinion here expressed will justify onward 
commercial sponsorship."


The patent was granted in 1995. Patents have a term of 20 years, so it is 
one-third the way through its life, yet no commercial sponsorship has 
materialized as far as I know. I suppose there are four possible 
explanations for this:

1. It is being developed but I have not heard about it. This seems 
unlikely. Gene would have mentioned something, unless he is under n.d.a. 
Why would anyone hide the fact they are developing a product?

2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.

3. The Correas are monumentally bad at attractive venture capital.

4. The Correas do not want to develop the gadget, and they have not 
searched for capital or they have turned down offers.

See: TITLE 35, PART II, CHAPTER 14, seat 285, bleachers, center field, Sec. 
154. - Contents and term of patent, 
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/35/154.html

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 08:43:52 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16909;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 08:41:04 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:41:04 -0700
Message-ID: <003901c1fc3f$d373b7c0$bb58ccd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD  Invention
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:36:47 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"NjmpX1.0.384.F6euy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47097
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jed Rothwell" <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
To: <vortex-L eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD Invention


> Aspden is a remarkable person who knows a great deal about patents. He is
> the only researcher whose comments about aether make any sense to me.
> Evidently he understands and finds some merit in Correa's claims. He is
> cautious, however, saying in the introduction:
>
> ". . . apart from witnessing a demonstration of the apparatus and
> performing tests over a protracted period to fully verify the data
reported
> by Dr. Correa, there is little I can do at this stage other than provide
> this preliminary evaluation of the intrinsic merit of the inventions and
> comment on the value of the patent rights relying on reference to these
> patent disclosures."
>
> Later he is more positive:
>
> ". . . Institutional professors will say that what is claimed is not
> possible, because they cannot understand why it should be possible. I say
> that the evidence of record from Spence in U. K., from Chernetskii in
> Russia and now from the Correas in Canada, more than suggests that those
> professors are all wrong. I go further in saying that the source of that
> energy has been explained but it takes proof of the phenomenon before
those
> professors can bring themselves to read the scientific papers that offer
> that explanation. I see that proof in the Correa research findings and I
> trust that the preliminary opinion here expressed will justify onward
> commercial sponsorship."
>
>
> The patent was granted in 1995. Patents have a term of 20 years, so it is
> one-third the way through its life, yet no commercial sponsorship has
> materialized as far as I know. I suppose there are four possible
> explanations for this:
>
> 1. It is being developed but I have not heard about it. This seems
> unlikely. Gene would have mentioned something, unless he is under n.d.a.
> Why would anyone hide the fact they are developing a product?
>
> 2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.

I don't know if Aspden visited the Correas since he wrote the above-quoted
opinion. I do know that the association between the Correas and Aspeden has
continued. Gene Mallove and I are the only Vortex correspondants who have
actually seen the PAGD apparatus and demonstration. Both of us have reported
favorably on what we have seen.

If one were to apply Jed's acerbic comments to CF, one would conclude that
CF "doesn't work" either. But Jed knows better, and has been a vocal
defendant of the CF cause for years and even handed critic of what he has
seen as a failure of CF investigators to take proper advantage of market
forces to develop applications.

PAGD "works" in the same sense that the many positive CF experiments "work".
There is a clear manifestation of an energetic phenomenon yielding "excess
energy" without any conventional explanation. Aspden has provided an essay
relating the PAGD phenomenon to his work on aether theory, which is
different in emphasis and structure from the Correa's published papers on an
aether-related phenomena following the earlier work of Reich. PAGD is
utterly different. What has been published is not all of their work, by any
means.

Readers of this note are cautioned that the term "aether", like "zero point
energy" or "vacuum energy" are Humpty-Dumpty terms, in the sense that the
terms mean what their authors intend them to mean and have no standard
definitions. The Michelson-Morely experiment "supposedly" nullified one
definition of "aether", but not all definitions.

Many individuals and groups have approached the Correas to negotiate
arrangements for development, including the Israeli government (as noted in
the Aspden Opinion). All these have fallen through for reasons I won't
discuss here. I can say from my own observation that the road from the
phenomenon I saw to a commercially useful system is difficult and expensive,
as it is with every CF phenomenon now visible. Gene made a sincere effort to
bring investors to the table, but the Correas put a condition on the
negotiation that was unacceptable.

I am aware of two attempts to duplicate the PAGD phenomenon, both failed. I
visited one experimenter who lives nearby . He was busy "improving" the PAGD
device before he really understood the phenomenon or what is necessary to
evoke it.

The Aspden Opinion also includes an appreciation of the three patents, which
I have also studied, and I agree with Aspden's opinion. These are remarkable
for their completeness, presentation of data, and discussion of practical
and
theoretical matters. There isn't much hand-waving or coining of new and
unusual terminology. Yet, as Paulo mentioned in a conversation, one has to
be skilled in many arts to understand the patent well enough to duplicate
the phenomenon.

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 09:17:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04740;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 09:14:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:14:21 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: jlagarde pop.nwc.fr
Message-Id: <f04320400b9083915e26f [62.73.2.130]>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:16:54 +0200
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Jean-de-Lagarde <jlagarde nwc.fr>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD   Invention
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-Virus-Scanned: by NWC
Resent-Message-ID: <"A8xuA3.0.i91.Pbeuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47098
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Jed wrote
>
>1. It is being developed but I have not heard about it. This seems 
>unlikely. Gene would have mentioned something, unless he is under 
>n.d.a. Why would anyone hide the fact they are developing a product?
>
>2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.
>
>3. The Correas are monumentally bad at attractive venture capital.
>
>4. The Correas do not want to develop the gadget, and they have not 
>searched for capital or they have turned down offers.
>
>
>- Jed

When was Aspden's Opinion written ? There is only one date on top 
left of page 1 under the name and address : 1996.  Should we conclude 
that the document is six years old ?

						Jean DeLagarde

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 09:36:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21279;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 09:35:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:35:29 -0700
X-Sent: 15 May 2002 16:34:55 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515120832.031d5060 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:34:23 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD 
  Invention
In-Reply-To: <003901c1fc3f$d373b7c0$bb58ccd1 asus>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"uzNFP2.0.NC5.Gveuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47099
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

> > 2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.
>
>I don't know if Aspden visited the Correas since he wrote the above-quoted 
>opinion. I do know that the association between the Correas and Aspeden 
>has continued. Gene Mallove and I are the only Vortex correspondants who 
>have actually seen the PAGD apparatus and demonstration. Both of us have 
>reported favorably on what we have seen.

Yes, and that's good, but it isn't proof. We must see independent replication.


>If one were to apply Jed's acerbic comments to CF, one would conclude that 
>CF "doesn't work" either.

Nonsense. CF was widely and independently replicated. If it had not been I 
would still not believe a word of it. I did not believe it until around 
1991, when I read reports by Bockris, McKubre, Oriani and others confirming 
Pons & Fleischmann. No matter how good the original experiment might have 
been, and no matter how many qualified people had trooped in to see F&P, I 
would never have been convinced.

There is only one standard in experimental science, and it applies to all 
researchers without exception, from the rank amateur to the most 
distinguished Professor at MIT. The experiment must be replicated! The only 
exception would be an overwhelming technological demonstration such as 
explosion of the first atomic bomb. In other words, if the Correas give me 
a 1 kg machine that stays palpably hot for weeks, I will believe it. If 
they refuse to give me one, but they give 10 other reliable people such 
machines, and I hear from all ten other people in detail, I suppose I will 
believe it.

There have been surprisingly few convincing demonstrations in history. The 
x-ray comes to mind. Marconi's first transatlantic radio transmission might 
have been random noise . . . but a week later I suppose they had enough 
data to prove the point. Even the first flight at Kitty Hawk might fail to 
prove that fully controlled, powered flight had been achieved. It looked 
like an uncontrolled hop, the sort of thing people had done for 50 years 
already. The fourth flight that day did prove the issue.


>But Jed knows better, and has been a vocal defendant of the CF cause for 
>years and even handed critic of what he has seen as a failure of CF 
>investigators to take proper advantage of market forces to develop 
>applications.

CF is nowhere near as well-suited for near term applications as the PAGD, 
according to the patent!


>Gene made a sincere effort to bring investors to the table, but the 
>Correas put a condition on the negotiation that was unacceptable.

Perhaps this indicates my third guess was correct, and the Correas are 
"monumentally bad at attracting venture capital."


>. . . I agree with Aspden's opinion. These are remarkable for their 
>completeness, presentation of data, and discussion of practical
>and theoretical matters. There isn't much hand-waving or coining of new 
>and unusual terminology.

That's good. But of course, that does not mean the gadget actually works.


>Yet, as Paulo mentioned in a conversation, one has to be skilled in many 
>arts to understand the patent well enough to duplicate the phenomenon.

This is true of many patents. It should not stand in the way of 
development. No doubt hundreds of thousands of people are qualified to 
replicate, perhaps with initial assistance from the Correas.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 09:54:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29837;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 09:51:47 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:51:47 -0700
X-Sent: 15 May 2002 16:51:12 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515123837.0324a748 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:50:59 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD  
  Invention
In-Reply-To: <f04320400b9083915e26f [62.73.2.130]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"lRocb3.0.7I7.Z8fuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47100
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jean-de-Lagarde wrote:

>When was Aspden's Opinion written ? There is only one date on top left of 
>page 1 under the name and address : 1996.  Should we conclude that the 
>document is six years old?

Good point. It turns out the patents are older. See:

http://www.aetherometry.com/index.html

Links to the Correas' PAGD Patents

 From the USPTO on the Delphion Database:
US5416391: May 16, 1995 / Oct. 15, 1992
Electromechanical transduction of plasma pulses
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05416391__
US5449989: Sept. 12, 1995 / April 15, 1993
Energy conversion system
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05449989__
US5502354: March 26, 1996 / April 19, 1994
Direct current energized pulse generator utilizing autogenous cyclical 
pulsed abnormal glow discharges
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05502354__


So the first patent is halfway to expiration. If you are not going to 
develop and commercialize a patent, why bother getting it? It takes a great 
deal of time and money to get a patent, people say. You might as well put 
the research in the public domain. In 10 or 12 more years anyone will be 
free to commercialize PAGD technology. I doubt anyone will, but they might. 
The Correas will lose all control over development. They should strike a 
deal now while they still have leverage.

I am glad patents last only 20 years. It is a shame for the inventors, but 
most of them are so inept at business they squander all opportunities 
anyway. I do not think the Correas could sell a single PAGD or entice an 
investor even if the patent term lasted 100 years.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 10:49:05 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02959;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 10:45:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:45:59 -0700
X-Sent: 15 May 2002 17:45:23 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515134304.0324a748 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:44:51 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Good chance to observe Venus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"ETcQ5.0.vj.Mxfuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47101
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:00 p.m. EST yesterday Venus was close to the moon, and very bright in 
the early evening sky, which was still blue. I read in the Japanese 
newspaper that was Venus. I wouldn't know, but anyway it was very pretty.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 12:30:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11487;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 12:27:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:27:59 -0700
X-Sender: hheffner mtaonline.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v01530500b90863421233 [12.110.74.45]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:34:24 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Pioneer's Slowing Explained
Resent-Message-ID: <"P4NA03.0.Jp2.-Qhuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47102
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:53 AM 5/14/2, Terry Blanton wrote:
>The electrical field created by the anode Sol retards the motion of an
>outward bound, negatively charged Pioneer 10:
>
>http://www.holoscience.com/news/mystery_solved.html


This is a non-quantitative speculation apparently based on a misconception.
It appears to be based on the false notion that the linear voltage
gradient through most of a linear plasma discharge tube will translate
into, i.e. remain, a linear gradient if the discharge is between spherical
electrodes instead of between plates at the opposite ends of a long
confining tube.

It is assumed by the author that a linear voltage gradient, a constant
dV/dr on any radial line, is sustained around the sun.  This could in fact
be true, due to some miraculous and unexplained mysterious phenomenon,
possibly more impressive and unexpected than a small secondary linear
component to gravity. However, the author of the article gives no substance
to any argument that such a miracle is occuring except to place in boldface
type his statement that the voltage gradient is linear.  It appears the
author simply assumes the gradient is linear, from the sun to the
heliopause, by looking at a graph of the voltage gradient of a linear
plasma discharge tube, which he kindly provides on his web page.  This
assumption is an unwarranted leap of faith, based on a lack of
understanding of geometry, but not a surprising type of misconception to be
found in a non-quantitative "theory."

I will not be able to respond to any other communications for at least a week.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 13:04:52 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31989;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 13:01:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:01:15 -0700
X-Sent: 15 May 2002 20:00:38 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515155917.031d5060 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:00:23 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Question about hydroponics, photosynthesis
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"oxKCB3.0.hp7.Awhuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47103
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Here is a question I posted in a hydroponics discussion group. Perhaps 
someone here can address it.

NASA and many others discuss hydroponic agriculture in connection with 
Advanced Life Support (ALS) (formerly called "controlled environment life 
support system - CELSS"). I have a very basic question about that subject. 
Oddly enough, I cannot find the answer in NASA literature and various 
books. To put it simply, using only artificial light, how many 
kilowatt-hours of electricity does it take to grow a kilogram of food? One 
hydroponic gardener estimated "1-2 kWh per plant for lettuce (26 days from 
seed to maturity)." That seems much too low. Perhaps that was supplemental 
light, and limited sunlight.

Assume you have a deep space mission with no sunlight in a well insulated 
chamber. Given today's optimum technology, no limits to cost, the best 
choice of crops and techniques, approximately how much electric energy 
would it take to produce a kcal of vegetable nourishment? That is, what is 
the approximate ratio of input to output energy? By "nourishment" I mean 
any ratio of carbohydrates and protein, even cassava, which is protein 
deficient. I presume protein supplements could be brought along in a space 
voyage. Assume you can use LED lights or other exotic high-efficiency 
equipment, with optimum wavelengths. Assume waste heat from the lights is 
sufficient to keep the crops warm in the well insulated chamber, and the 
limiting factor would be the amount of light from the most efficient LED or 
fluorescent lights. Ignore the energy required to harvest, preserve and 
prepare the food.

Would this input/output ratio be much higher for a well-balanced, 
interesting, varied vegetarian diet, without protein supplements?

As I said, the estimate of 1 - 2 kWh seems much too low. A typical head of 
lettuce is 150 g, with 31.5 kcal = 0.04 kWh. With the best lighting systems 
~10% of the electricity converts to light. In other words, 1 - 2 kWh 
convert to 0.1 ~ 0.2 kWh of light, meaning 15% to 30% of that converts to 
nutrition in the plant. In nature, 0.1% of sunlight converts into biomass 
according to D. Pimentel, "Food, Energy and Society," (University Press of 
Colorado, 1996). The limiting factors in nature are availability of water 
in the tropics, and temperature in temperate zones. (p. 19)  Apparently 
most of the sunlight goes to waste. Still, it is hard to believe 
photosynthesis can be 30% efficient.

On the other hand, another source says "on a sunny day, the radiation used 
for photosynthesis is about 20% of the PAR, or about 10% of the total solar 
radiation." (http://www.ears.nl/ppm/e_index.htm). People with hands-on 
experience with indoor hydroponics should have more practical knowledge of 
these issues.

- Jed Rothwell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 14:52:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01674;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 14:44:24 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:44:24 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE2D6B6.3050706 pbtta.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:44:22 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Question about hydroponics, photosynthesis
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515155917.031d5060 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"OIqWK2.0.-P.tQjuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47104
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> People with hands-on experience with indoor hydroponics should have 
> more practical knowledge of these issues. 


Or, look at the cost of operating real systems:

http://www.granitehydro.com/lights/lighting.htm#lightcoverage

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 15:27:37 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31506;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 15:24:52 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:24:52 -0700
X-Sent: 15 May 2002 22:24:17 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515180214.0323c318 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:24:01 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Question about hydroponics, photosynthesis
In-Reply-To: <3CE2D6B6.3050706 pbtta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515155917.031d5060 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"9OIBn.0.Bi7.p0kuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47105
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Terry Blanton wrote:

>Or, look at the cost of operating real systems:
>
>http://www.granitehydro.com/lights/lighting.htm#lightcoverage

This is helpful, and I have found some similar documents, but three things 
remain unclear to me. How much of this augments natural light? How much 
food can be grown in the space described in this document? What is mass of 
the edible portion of the food? I have tables of nutritional value in kcal 
for various foods.

One group of people routinely grows plants completely indoors, away from 
natural light and prying eyes: indoor marijuana growers. They have 
published quite a bit of information on Internet. Unfortunately, the 
product is not edible and I do not know how much biomass it has. They do 
not publish scientific papers or detailed quantitative analyses. I suppose 
their profit margin is so high cost doesn't matter. Cold fusion will be a 
boon to these people, since the police sometimes track them down by looking 
for unusually high power consumption.

Other hydroponic researchers generally use ambient sunlight. They publish 
more quantitative facts and they are more forthcoming, since they have 
nothing to hide. Some are downright exhibitionist. See "The Inside Story, 
Uncensored" at the Tomatoes Live! tomato-cam, at the University of Arizona:

http://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/

I found a long NASA study about this, with many interesting conclusions 
about chemistry and biology, human waste recycling, mass balance, medical 
effects and so on. Unfortunately, in the section about about energy use and 
the energy balance, they say that after months of research they found out 
their power meters were not working right, so the data is meaningless. It 
sounds a lot like a CF experiment. See:

http://advlifesupport.jsc.nasa.gov/Reports/Phase3/07_LMLSTP.html

"4.7 Energy Balance, Problems were discovered post-test with the wattmeters 
used throughout the test. As a result, specific subsystem energy balances 
are not reported. . . ."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 20:11:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14993;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 20:08:37 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:08:37 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:09:33 -0400
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-Id: <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Resent-Message-ID: <"2ENGZ2.0.Bg3.rAouy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47106
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: A

On Tuesday 14 May 2002 09:32, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Standing Bear wrote:
> > > For instance in order to produce 1 GWe x 30 years ~6.1 TWh one has to
> > > handle 4.50 x 10E7 ton of high content Uranium ores (2000 ppm), to be
> > > compared with 3.21 x 10E8 ton of coal mining for a Coal fired plant.
> > > The conclusion is that most of the "magic" nuclear factor of 3 x 10E6
> > > of nuclear energy is, as of today, almost wiped out."
> >
> >aren't you forgetting about the breeder cycle?
>
> That was Carlo Rubbia, not me, and I am sure he did not forget the breeder
> cycle. He was discussing technology already existing and implemented, not
> potential solutions. He does not mention breeder reactors in the essay,
> however. Perhaps he does not think they would work well?
>
> - Jed

The Japanese think that they work just fine.  They are in a crash program
to build a breeder system much larger than the one that we had and were
operating at Clinch River in Tennessee back in the 60's and 70's before
we were forced to abandon it by a coalition of  middle eastern oil interests,
enemy agents provocateurs, economic saboteurs, and domestic traitors calling 
themselves environmentalists.
Just because ours was shut down did not mean the end of the technology,
only that when it was built, somebody else would build it.  They have!
And whatever 'concerns' environments have or will have about it will be
dealt with by foreign governments who look on treason a bit more sternly
than weaklings such as us.  As these reworked products or our research
come on line, our industry that is still dependent on foreign oil, gas, etc.
will find themselves at increasing and progressive competitive disadvantage.
It will be the giant 'sucking sound', as Ross Perot put it back a few years
ago, of our money being vacuumed out of our economy.  The jobs are
pretty much gone now except for servant and butler type jobs.  The ironic
thing about it is the plutonium that made all this possible was sold to the
Japanese at bargain basement prices at the behest of the old Bush
administration and shipped to Japan under huge international protest
during the Clinton years.  Part of 'free trade' I suppose.  We give and
they take.  I do not fault Japan.  I have been there and they are a 
hard working people who basically earn what they get.  They are only
trying to save themselves.  Would that we could emulate them.

Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 20:55:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07279;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 20:52:26 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:52:26 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Mallove & Bockris letters in Science News
In-Reply-To: <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020515204656.15165A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"WVloL3.0.fn1.wpouy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47107
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: A


I'm stunned.  The latest issue of Science News (May 11) actually printed
two short letters objecting to their harsh words against CF in the March
9th issue. 

They actually allow a tiny bit of dissent, rather than the usual total
silence!       <scarcasm_mode>My how far we've come.

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L


what if I never said </sarcasm_mode>, would it extend to all my future
messages?  :)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 15 22:11:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17629;
	Wed, 15 May 2002 22:08:43 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:08:43 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: "G" is anisotropic?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020515204656.15165A-100000 eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1020515220813.20993A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"S9tZN1.0.JJ4.Qxpuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47108
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


  Newton's constant changes with orientation of masses
  http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=04052002-101439-3089r


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 05:21:37 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19829;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 05:18:03 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 05:18:03 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:19:55 -0700
Subject: File  size limit for Vortex?
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B9091C2A.2A31%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"QR8JB1.0.gr4.wDwuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47109
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Will someone please remind me of the file size acceptable for Vortex
posting?  

I have a large file that I would like to post later today, if I can do so
with ICCF9 preparations and all....  I'll break it into smaller units if
necessary.

- Gene

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 05:26:18 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23019;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 05:25:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 05:25:29 -0700
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:24:50 +0100
From: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: File  size limit for Vortex?
Message-ID: <20020516122450.GG14697 genius.tao.org.uk>
Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>,
	vortex-l eskimo.com
References: <B9091C2A.2A31%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tvOENZuN7d6HfOWU"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <B9091C2A.2A31%editor infinite-energy.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
Resent-Message-ID: <"r0L5s1.0.Jd5.uKwuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47110
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


--tvOENZuN7d6HfOWU
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 08:19:55AM -0700, Eugene F. Mallove wrote:
> Will someone please remind me of the file size acceptable for Vortex
> posting? =20
>=20
> I have a large file that I would like to post later today, if I can do so
> with ICCF9 preparations and all....  I'll break it into smaller units if
> necessary.

Why not put it on a web site and publish the URL instead.  If it's bit
it's probably a little anti-social to expect everyone to download it
whether they want to read it or not.

If you've not got access to a web server I'll happily host it for you -
mail it to me privately and I'll mail you back the URL.

Regards,
Joe

--tvOENZuN7d6HfOWU
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjzjpRIACgkQXVIcjOaxUBYDBgCaArspIpv9RBz0Oo8Pvgh55kph
q8YAoK7YADbUx9QG8ymSR/BQkVLWJdZ6
=WMRE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--tvOENZuN7d6HfOWU--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 06:20:59 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA23374;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 06:17:41 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:17:41 -0700
Message-ID: <20020516131735.28796.qmail web11202.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:17:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pioneer's Slowing Explained
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <3CE116C5.8080701 pbtta.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"TjcUl.0.6j5.r5xuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47111
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


--- Terry Blanton <blantont pbtta.com> wrote:
> The electrical field created by the anode Sol retards the
> motion of an 
> outward bound, negatively charged Pioneer 10:
> 
> http://www.holoscience.com/news/mystery_solved.html
> 
> Terry
> 
I knew it was going to be an enviornment problem.

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 06:24:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28548;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 06:24:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:24:20 -0700
Message-ID: <20020516132415.11071.qmail web11206.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pioneer's Slowing Explained
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <v01530500b90863421233 [12.110.74.45]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"8wK7N2.0.xz6.4Cxuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47112
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


--- Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net> wrote:
> understanding of geometry, but not a surprising type of
> misconception to be
> found in a non-quantitative "theory."
> 
> I will not be able to respond to any other communications for
> at least a week.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner          

I get it...  You want the last word.  :-)


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 07:18:07 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27293;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 07:15:11 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:15:11 -0700
X-Sent: 16 May 2002 14:14:35 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516101351.0324c128 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:14:21 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Lots of Vorts in Business Week
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"uDnDi1.0.Kg6.kxxuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47113
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Thanks, Otis Port! See:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_11/b3774095.htm

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 07:41:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04462;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 07:35:04 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:35:04 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE3C39B.70203 pbtta.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:35:07 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor@infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: File  size limit for Vortex?
References: <B9091C2A.2A31%editor infinite-energy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Svlpv1.0.Y51.NEyuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47114
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

>Will someone please remind me of the file size acceptable for Vortex
>posting?  
>

40 kiloBytes.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 07:50:06 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07021;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 07:41:05 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:41:05 -0700
X-Sent: 16 May 2002 14:40:26 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516103530.0324d630 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:40:24 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Zimmerman versus Miles
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"z4MDv.0.cj1.0Kyuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47115
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Here is part of an exchange of messages. Zimmerman is quite a guy. He 
refused to tell me his name at the APS, and tried to cover up his badge.

- Jed


Subject: FW: HSG: Re: An opportunity to talk to an independent scientist
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>

All,

The following two messages from the HSG forum. The evil Peter Zimmermann 
("pz"-- Park's buddy at the State Department) stirring up trouble about the 
NAVY cold fusion report. What a damn outrage!!

Gene Mallove

 >From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
 >Reply-To: hydrino yahoogroups.com
 >To: <hydrino yahoogroups.com>
 >Subject: HSG: Re: An opportunity to talk to an independent scientist
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:06:14 -0700
 >I think it most interesting that Peter Zimmerman should find it necessary
 >to forward my note "to the superintendent of NRL... for comment", when the
 >work and report itself was performed for NRL and the report is issued as an
 >official report with the endorsement of the Navy.

Oh no, Mr. Carrell. I am forwarding the **document** to the superintendent. 
It's my contention that somehow the crap in it did not go thru the formal 
NRL review process which is very, very rigorous. I want to know why the 
Navy issued it.

Of course, it's possible that a disclaimer was left off, and it's really
only Scott Chubb speaking for himself and a small group unofficially. As I 
am aware such errors do happen.

pz


------ Forwarded Message
From: Peter Zimmerman <peterz erols.com>
Reply-To: hydrino yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:11:30 -0400
To: hydrino yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: HSG: Re: An opportunity to talk to an independent scientist

I have some information from NRL. The work is not an NRL publication, 
however the contributions of NRL researchers are required to go through 
internal peer review, regardless of where a paper is published. That 
obligation may not have been met, or met only nominally meaning CFanatics 
reviewed Chubb's work. It will also be interesting to see which pot of 
taxpayer money was used. My NRL friend, more pungently, said that he gagged 
upon reading the introduction.

More later. I also have Vol. 2 entirely by Fleischmann and filled with
condescending and/or self-important footnotes denigrating the work and
skills of all other electrochemists.

But I spent most of my 10hr workday on real work, so I didn't have time to 
read more than a teensy bit thoroughly.

/pz

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Melvin H. Miles" <melmiles bellsouth.net>
To: <peterz erols.com>
Subject: NRL/Cold Fusion Report
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:17:00 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200

I performed the experiment covered in the NRL report and used Pd-B material 
prepared by Dr. M.A. Imam of NRL. Dr. Fred Saalfeld, head of ONR, approved 
the publication of the report. There was clearly excess enthalpy in this 
experiment. My own independent data analysis compares very favorably to 
this detailed data analysis that was done by Martin Fleischmann for this 
same experiment. The equation used are solidly based on the First Law of 
Thermodynamics that I cover in my physical chemistry class here at Middle 
Tennessee State University. If anybody wants to reject these results, they 
must base their reasoning solidly on scientific principle and not on bias 
or emotions. In the past, new scientific concepts were accepted or rejected 
based on the Scientific Method. The critics of cold fusion, however, have 
used ridicule as their main weapons and, therefore, have avoided 
discussions of the actual science. Martin Fleischmann is certainly one of 
the world's experts on the accurate analysis of scientific data. The actual 
data considered is available in the NRL Report for any independent analysis.

Dr. Melvin H. Miles
Professor, MTSU

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 08:12:13 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23556;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 08:07:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:07:55 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:55:47 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <E178Bd4-000587-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"fY_z8.0.-l5.Bjyuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47116
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dear SB,
Most energy sources have a down side, which is ignored in most discussions.  For
example, a normal nuclear reactor generates mildly radioactive waste in making
fuel rods.  This source of radioactivity is bad enough. In contrast, a breeder
reactor generates this waste as well as a large quantity of highly radioactive
waste when the fuel is reprocessed.  This is the reason why the US stores spent
fuel rather than converting it to a more storable form.  It is also why we are
not developing a breeder reactor.  We tried to reprocess fuel and the result was
done so badly everyone realized that this technique would not work in our
economic system, i.e. low-bid make-a-buck-at-any-cost.  Perhaps the Japanese
have better control over how technology is implemented, although some recent
experiences would argue otherwise.  In any case, even a small accident at a
reprocessing plant produces a serious, permanent problem.  Only a foolish
government would subject their citizens to this risk.  No need exists to invoke
conspiracy to explain the US position.  In this one case, perhaps we are more
wise than the Japanese.

Ed

Standing Bear wrote:

> On Tuesday 14 May 2002 09:32, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> > Standing Bear wrote:
> > > > For instance in order to produce 1 GWe x 30 years ~6.1 TWh one has to
> > > > handle 4.50 x 10E7 ton of high content Uranium ores (2000 ppm), to be
> > > > compared with 3.21 x 10E8 ton of coal mining for a Coal fired plant.
> > > > The conclusion is that most of the "magic" nuclear factor of 3 x 10E6
> > > > of nuclear energy is, as of today, almost wiped out."
> > >
> > >aren't you forgetting about the breeder cycle?
> >
> > That was Carlo Rubbia, not me, and I am sure he did not forget the breeder
> > cycle. He was discussing technology already existing and implemented, not
> > potential solutions. He does not mention breeder reactors in the essay,
> > however. Perhaps he does not think they would work well?
> >
> > - Jed
>
> The Japanese think that they work just fine.  They are in a crash program
> to build a breeder system much larger than the one that we had and were
> operating at Clinch River in Tennessee back in the 60's and 70's before
> we were forced to abandon it by a coalition of  middle eastern oil interests,
> enemy agents provocateurs, economic saboteurs, and domestic traitors calling
> themselves environmentalists.
> Just because ours was shut down did not mean the end of the technology,
> only that when it was built, somebody else would build it.  They have!
> And whatever 'concerns' environments have or will have about it will be
> dealt with by foreign governments who look on treason a bit more sternly
> than weaklings such as us.  As these reworked products or our research
> come on line, our industry that is still dependent on foreign oil, gas, etc.
> will find themselves at increasing and progressive competitive disadvantage.
> It will be the giant 'sucking sound', as Ross Perot put it back a few years
> ago, of our money being vacuumed out of our economy.  The jobs are
> pretty much gone now except for servant and butler type jobs.  The ironic
> thing about it is the plutonium that made all this possible was sold to the
> Japanese at bargain basement prices at the behest of the old Bush
> administration and shipped to Japan under huge international protest
> during the Clinton years.  Part of 'free trade' I suppose.  We give and
> they take.  I do not fault Japan.  I have been there and they are a
> hard working people who basically earn what they get.  They are only
> trying to save themselves.  Would that we could emulate them.
>
> Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 08:24:23 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01697;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 08:23:26 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:23:26 -0700
X-Sent: 16 May 2002 15:22:54 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516110710.03244e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 11:22:53 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
In-Reply-To: <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"wcZJj3.0.QQ.kxyuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47117
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Standing Bear wrote:

>He does not mention breeder reactors in the essay,
> > however. Perhaps he does not think they would work well?
> >
>
>The Japanese think that they work just fine.  They are in a crash program 
>to build a breeder system much larger than the one that we had and were 
>operating at Clinch River in Tennessee back in the 60's and 70's . . .

I believe you refer to the Monju breeder reactor, and associated 
facilities. I do not know of any other Japanese breeder program.

Monju along with the entire Japanese program is moribund. It was closed 
after a fire in 1995, and most observers say there is no chance it will be 
reopened.


http://www.jnc.go.jp/zmonju/mjweb/welcome.htm

http://www.jnc.go.jp/zmonju/mjweb/monjumen.htm

See the New York Times, December 20, 1992, "Japan's Nuclear Fiasco." A 
senior Japanese official who asked not to be identified is quoted: "It is 
almost inconceivable that such a good idea would have turned this bad. We 
spent the last 20 years building this project, and we'll probably spend the 
next 20 killing it."


>. . . before we were forced to abandon it by a coalition of  middle 
>eastern oil interests, enemy agents provocateurs, economic saboteurs, and 
>domestic traitors calling themselves environmentalists.

A coalition of economists & power company executives might have had more 
influence in this case. Electricity from a breeder reactor would be far 
more expensive than any other source. The Times quoted a "horrified" senior 
official at Tokyo Electric power company, ". . . this will cost consumers a 
fortune."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 08:25:01 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02659;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 08:24:32 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:24:32 -0700
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:22:53 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: First Segway crash
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-id: <003d01c1fced$8c9e0720$8837fea9 computer>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"dtkWh.0.Jf.lyyuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47118
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>From the Beeb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1980000/1980254.stm

Like many dedicated walkers I share this Brit's sentiment (apparently in England
"pavement"=sidewalk) :

Yes, I have ridden one and they are fun. But, no, I do not want to share a
pavement with them - for exactly the same reason as I don't want to have
bicycles on the pavement. The comfortable riding speed of both bikes and Segways
is considerably higher than normal walking speed, and both force pedestrians to
move out of the way.  Pam Goldie, UK

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 08:40:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07624;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 08:32:14 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:32:14 -0700
Message-ID: <20020516153205.59285.qmail web11202.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"Z9yEf.0.Rs1.z3zuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47119
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortex Cooling Tubes


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1731664000

I just got one...  

The tube is about a foot long, diameter is just over an inch.
(2 inch of the cold side are inside the duct.  It is actually a
bit larger then it looks in the photo.

I will be trying it out tonight at the house.  I will let you
know what I learn.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 08:55:16 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22671;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 08:54:39 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:54:39 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:07:11 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMEEKCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"l2VDt.0.8Y5._Ozuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47120
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All.

Standing Bear Rants:
> The ironic
> thing about it is the plutonium that made all this possible was sold to
the
> Japanese at bargain basement prices at the behest of the old Bush
> administration and shipped to Japan under huge international protest
> during the Clinton years.  Part of 'free trade' I suppose.

I remember when this happened, I couldn't believe that such a huge
quantity of plutonium would be stored in such an earthquake prone
area as Japan. I'm deeply thankful that this country is on the
other side of the planet, but I pity the poor Japanese citizen
when the inevitable accident occurs. By the way, what did they
do with all the plutonium? Does anybody know? Last I heard about
it was the huge stink about shipping it, nobody wanted the ship
in port. Also, can't you make nuclear weapons with this
material?

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 09:07:51 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29033;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 09:04:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:04:48 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:17:20 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMKEKCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <20020516153205.59285.qmail web11202.mail.yahoo.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"OboJp2.0.Y57.WYzuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47121
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Charles.

Is this a hilsch style vortex tube, or something different?
I was surprised to see this on ebay, I thought the efficiency
of these things was really too low to be usefull for much
except demonstrating how to put a leash on maxwells demon (grin).

K.


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Ford [mailto:cjford1 yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:32 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay


Vortex Cooling Tubes


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1731664000

I just got one...  

The tube is about a foot long, diameter is just over an inch.
(2 inch of the cold side are inside the duct.  It is actually a
bit larger then it looks in the photo.

I will be trying it out tonight at the house.  I will let you
know what I learn.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 09:11:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA31668;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 09:10:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:10:08 -0700
Message-ID: <20020516161003.48380.qmail web11206.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: File  size limit for Vortex?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <20020516122450.GG14697 genius.tao.org.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"5xMA03.0.dk7.Vdzuy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47122
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Definetly a good solution.  There are also some folks with
'slow' connections and / or limited download time that might
want to have the power to say "No"

--- Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 08:19:55AM -0700, Eugene F. Mallove
> wrote:
> > Will someone please remind me of the file size acceptable
> for Vortex
> > posting?  
> > 
> > I have a large file that I would like to post later today,
> if I can do so
> > with ICCF9 preparations and all....  I'll break it into
> smaller units if
> > necessary.
> 
> Why not put it on a web site and publish the URL instead.  If
> it's bit
> it's probably a little anti-social to expect everyone to
> download it
> whether they want to read it or not.
> 
> If you've not got access to a web server I'll happily host it
> for you -
> mail it to me privately and I'll mail you back the URL.
> 
> Regards,
> Joe
> 

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature 



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 10:11:04 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02846;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 10:07:35 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:07:35 -0700
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:05:54 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-id: <005f01c1fcfb$f0d709e0$8837fea9 computer>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMKEKCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
Resent-Message-ID: <"eiLjz.0.Ni.MT-uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47123
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Keith,

> Is this a hilsch style vortex tube, or something different?
> I was surprised to see this on ebay, I thought the efficiency
> of these things was really too low to be usefull for much
> except demonstrating how to put a leash on maxwells demon (grin).

These are Ranque-Hilsch in principle but technically very inefficient for
cooling compared to normal refrigeration, nevertheless quite handy in many
industrial situations where you have installed compressed air and not enough
room or time to set up a portable chiller.

We used them 40 years ago in tool&die work, such as when needed to cool down a
carbide bit when doing heavy work on a Bridgeport and your chiller was in use
elsewhere etc.

When you get up to something like 40-1 L/D ratio, then they become considerably
more efficient, but then you loose the ease of setup which is what the short
ones are all about - strictly convenience.

Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 10:29:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13762;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 10:25:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:25:54 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:38:24 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMKEKDDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <005f01c1fcfb$f0d709e0$8837fea9 computer>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"i-fq53.0.lM3.Wk-uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47124
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Jones.

I guess it's fair to say then that the hilsch
type device is substantially more efficient than simply
allowing the compressed air to expand from a nozzle.
As you say, with a ready source of compressed air
as you would have in a machine shop it seems very
convienent.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:06 PM
To: vortex
Subject: Re: Vortex Cooling Tubes on ebay


Hi Keith,

> Is this a hilsch style vortex tube, or something different?
> I was surprised to see this on ebay, I thought the efficiency
> of these things was really too low to be usefull for much
> except demonstrating how to put a leash on maxwells demon (grin).

These are Ranque-Hilsch in principle but technically very inefficient for
cooling compared to normal refrigeration, nevertheless quite handy in many
industrial situations where you have installed compressed air and not enough
room or time to set up a portable chiller.

We used them 40 years ago in tool&die work, such as when needed to cool down
a
carbide bit when doing heavy work on a Bridgeport and your chiller was in
use
elsewhere etc.

When you get up to something like 40-1 L/D ratio, then they become
considerably
more efficient, but then you loose the ease of setup which is what the short
ones are all about - strictly convenience.

Jones


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 11:21:18 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14465;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 11:15:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 11:15:55 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE3F75E.6090108 pbtta.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:15:58 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Question about hydroponics, photosynthesis
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515155917.031d5060 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"gLsnE1.0.kX3.QT_uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47125
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Here is a question I posted in a hydroponics discussion group. Perhaps 
> someone here can address it.
>
> NASA and many others discuss hydroponic agriculture in connection with 
> Advanced Life Support (ALS) (formerly called "controlled environment 
> life support system - CELSS"). 


Here is a brief article on ESA's effort:

http://www.cosmiverse.com/news/space/space05140203.html

Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 11:21:42 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17712;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 11:21:08 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 11:21:08 -0700
X-Sent: 16 May 2002 18:20:32 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516140730.0324b480 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:20:18 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: RE: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMEEKCDDAA.knagel gis.net>
References: <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"O2dUx1.0.eK4.JY_uy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47126
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Keith Nagel wrote:

>I remember when this happened, I couldn't believe that such a huge
>quantity of plutonium would be stored in such an earthquake prone
>area as Japan.

I am not in favor of shipping Pu around the planet, but I doubt earthquakes 
would be a problem. Buildings can be made completely earthquake proof. This 
would be too expensive for offices or houses but it can be done. 
Underground facilities are earthquake proof. People in the subways and San 
Francisco and Kobe did not even notice two of the largest earthquakes in 
history.


>Also, can't you make nuclear weapons with this material?

I am sure the Japanese could make nuclear weapons easily. They have the 
materials and expertise. Periodically American columnists claim the 
Japanese are on the verge of making them. Someone wrote recently that a 
conflict in Korea would "inevitably" lead to the Japanese government taking 
this step, and earlier that U.S. withdrawal from Japanese bases would 
"inevitably" lead to it. I think this is about as likely as the state 
government of Georgia reimposing slavery. If the prime minister or a member 
of the Cabinet hinted they are thinking about doing this, I expect the 
government would fall within a week, and the party would lose the next 
election.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 14:49:50 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12979;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 14:48:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:48:20 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Accelerator-driven fission reactors
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:31:19 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEKFDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516140730.0324b480 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"N5TY72.0.eA3.Za2vy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47128
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Jed.

You write:
>I am not in favor of shipping Pu around the planet, but I doubt earthquakes
>would be a problem. Buildings can be made completely earthquake proof. This
>would be too expensive for offices or houses but it can be done.

Agreed. But of course, it will probably not be done. Rather, the plutonium
will likely be stored in a wooden shack situated right over
a fault line. Why? Well, the guy that owns the shack and the
quaking land beneath is the PM's brother, or some such thing...

This is the reality of the world we live in. It's also why,
as Ed pointed out, we don't use breeder reactors. Just too much
potential for disaster. Remember that last nuclear accident
in Japan? Uranium fuel was being processed in 5 gallon steel mop
buckets...by the pound! Did they know better? Of course they
did, but yet the accident happened.

>government of Georgia reimposing slavery. If the prime minister or a member
>of the Cabinet hinted they are thinking about doing this, I expect the
>government would fall within a week, and the party would lose the next
>election.

Also agreed. I wasn't thinking that they'd be making bombs, rather
that if you're trying to control proliferation of nuclear weapons you'd
probably want to keep a tight lid on where the key element is. The more
folks that have a hand on it, the less control.

I was hoping you'd have some info on what was actually done with the
Pu, being our resident nipponophile. If as you say, they've stopped
plans for the breeder reactors, what did they do with all that fuel????

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 16 14:51:25 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12960;
	Thu, 16 May 2002 14:48:19 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:48:19 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: First Segway crash
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:00:51 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMGEKGDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <003d01c1fced$8c9e0720$8837fea9 computer>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
Resent-Message-ID: <"erhc42.0.QA3.Ya2vy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47127
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Jones.

This is kind of old news, but here's another article with a pic
of the poor sap lying on the ground. You will note the lack
of any protective gear, perhaps this is Mitchell Jones? From
the looks of things, he might have tried to jump a curb
with the device. It's hard to say.

I agree with the quote, they look like fun to ride but I'd
hate to share the sidewalk with one.

K.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/0502/03segway.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:23 AM
To: vortex
Subject: First Segway crash


>From the Beeb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1980000/1980254.stm

Like many dedicated walkers I share this Brit's sentiment (apparently in
England
"pavement"=sidewalk) :

Yes, I have ridden one and they are fun. But, no, I do not want to share a
pavement with them - for exactly the same reason as I don't want to have
bicycles on the pavement. The comfortable riding speed of both bikes and
Segways
is considerably higher than normal walking speed, and both force pedestrians
to
move out of the way.  Pam Goldie, UK

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 00:45:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16817;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 00:45:24 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 00:45:24 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100312b90a591be7c6 [63.233.227.121]>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514094801.031d21c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020513132530.031e8f88 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514094801.031d21c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 02:44:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: biodiesel story in the ny times
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"nlm_d2.0.g64.JKBvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47130
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>I posted, and Jed replied
>
>>Have you considered the alternative Jed? Have you heard of tertiary 
>>butyl ether? Ethanol is a fuel additive, Of the three, ethanol, 
>>TBE, and tetra ethyl lead, ethanol is clean . . .
>
>Clean?!? It is filthy! To make 1 gallon we have to burn 1.7 gallons 
>of oil and gas equivalent, pollute 160 gallons of water, and wash 
>away 33 kg of topsoil (assuming 110 bu corn per acre; 2.5 gallons 
>ethanol per bushel). If this is

Did you miss the story about the people whose wells are polluted with 
TBE, Jed? How would you like to have some of your pention fund 
invested in the oil company that produced the TBE that leaked? Or 
would you prefer tetra ethyl lead?

>
>>, Also it helps keep me employed.
>
>That may interfere with your objectivity.

I like to think of it as pragmatism Jed, there are no perfect 
solutions, only making the best of several bad choices.

My attitude is colored by two things, however: one is my house 
payments. the other is my biblical belief that the earth will be 
cleansed by fire, removing all traces of this present evil age.



-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 00:46:51 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16357;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 00:44:01 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 00:44:01 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a0510030db90a15af105d [63.233.227.121]>
In-Reply-To: <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
 <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 02:44:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Conspiracy and energy production
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"5rLOo3.0.V_3.0JBvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47129
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ed;

I gather that you're not a big conspiracy fan.

Can you explain why the government is going to bury the nuclear waste 
in Yucca mountain rather than use Paul Brown's technology to do away 
with it?

Then there is Enron. Someone was telling me that Enron was bankrupted 
because they has stepped on too many toes which were connected to 
rich people in the energy business. I replied that as I understood 
it, they had made money on some trades, and lost money on some 
trades. The profits went on the books, and the losses were hidden in 
partnerships. If they had been making more money than they lost, they 
would still be in business. My friend said that Long Term Capital 
Management was bailed out and Enron could have been bailed out too, 
any thoughts.

>Dear SB,
>
>conspiracy to explain the US position.  In this one case, perhaps we are more
>wise than the Japanese.
>
>Ed
>
>  >
>>  The Japanese think that they work just fine.  They are in a crash program
>  > to build a breeder system much larger than the one that we had and were
>ying to save themselves.  Would that we could emulate them.
>  >
>>  Standing Bear


-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 02:30:21 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32725;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 02:26:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 02:26:59 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100316b90a68357484 [63.233.227.121]>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 04:27:12 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD   Invention
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"8P5rH3.0.F_7.ZpCvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47131
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>
>
>The patent was granted in 1995. Patents have a term of 20 years, so 
>it is one-third the way through its life, yet no commercial 
>sponsorship has materialized as far as I know. I suppose there are 
>four possible explanations for this:
>
>1. It is being developed but I have not heard about it. This seems 
>unlikely. Gene would have mentioned something, unless he is under 
>n.d.a. Why would anyone hide the fact they are developing a product?


I thought that Gene tested it.

>
>2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.

As I mentioned above, it works, but I doubt it's economic feasibility.

>3. The Correas are monumentally bad at attractive venture capital.
>
>4. The Correas do not want to develop the gadget, and they have not 
>searched for capital or they have turned down offers.

You obviously havenn't read the Correa's website, Jed. They have 
presented it to anyone who will listen to them. I recall one quote, 
"this organization will still be around when your patent expires."



-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 07:48:30 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26099;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 07:47:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:47:09 -0700
Message-ID: <003001c1fdca$a8e84520$f27accd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <a05100316b90a68357484@[63.233.227.121]>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD   Invention
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:44:25 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"YY29z2.0.VN6.iVHvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47132
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD Invention


> >
> >
> >The patent was granted in 1995. Patents have a term of 20 years, so
> >it is one-third the way through its life, yet no commercial
> >sponsorship has materialized as far as I know. I suppose there are
> >four possible explanations for this:
> >
> >1. It is being developed but I have not heard about it. This seems
> >unlikely. Gene would have mentioned something, unless he is under
> >n.d.a. Why would anyone hide the fact they are developing a product?
>
>
> I thought that Gene tested it.

To my knowledge, there have been no tests of Correa devices on the premises
of Gene's New Energy Research Laboratory. Gene has made several visit to the
Correa's laboratory to observe demonstrations of several devices and
phenomena. I have made one visit, several years ago. None of these visits
were under  'due diligence' rules, which allow detailed examination of
apparatus, setups, and challenges to phenomena observed. A formal, "due
diligence" demonstration of the PAGD phenomenon is a four-day affair,
involving tutorial lectures, calibration procedures, measurements, the
whole bag. I wrote a review of PAGD for Infinite Energy some years ago,
outlining the calibration procedures.

>
> >
> >2. The gadget does not actually work. I expect this is the problem.
>
> As I mentioned above, it works, but I doubt it's economic feasibility.

PAGD works as a phenomena. Developing that phenomena into a device ready for
prime time is about $15 million, according to Correa's estimate. In my
opinion, that estimate is realistic.
>
> >3. The Correas are monumentally bad at attractive venture capital.

What venture capitalists typically want to do is package a gimmick, sell
stock, get rich, and sell out. The Correas have been approached by many
parties with smoke-and-mirrors credentials and twisty agendas. Developing
the technology requires a hand picked team of specialists to whom the
Correas would have to make a multi-year financial commitment to order their
lives to work on the task. Because of this, Correa demands technical and
management control of the enterprise and an irrevocable commitment of funds
to carry through for a period of years. These requirements are ethical but
are antithetical to venture capitalist who want control of the enterprise
and
the freedom to walk away at the least disappointment.

> >
> >4. The Correas do not want to develop the gadget, and they have not
> >searched for capital or they have turned down offers.

See my remarks above. Yes, they have turned down offers.

Mike Carrell

>
> You obviously haven't read the Correa's website, Jed. They have
> presented it to anyone who will listen to them. I recall one quote,
> "this organization will still be around when your patent expires."
>
>
>
> --
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 07:51:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26218;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 07:47:17 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:47:17 -0700
Message-ID: <002f01c1fdca$a838cb40$f27accd1 asus>
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <E178Bd4-000587-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8@ix.netcom.com> <a0510030db90a15af105d@[63.233.227.121]>
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:42:12 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Resent-Message-ID: <"Tp7GM2.0.fN6.iVHvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47133
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: Conspiracy and energy production


> Ed;
>
> I gather that you're not a big conspiracy fan.
>
> Can you explain why the government is going to bury the nuclear waste
> in Yucca mountain rather than use Paul Brown's technology to do away
> with it?

Brown mounted a plausible feasibility demonstration of a method of
remediation of radioactive elements. It is accepted by  the high energy
physics community because it falls within the realm of accepted knowledge.
The apparatus is expensive, consumes significant energy, and, I believe, has
to be tuned to the specific isotope to be acted on. The quantity of material
to be moved into Yucca mountain is in the tens of kilotons, according to
numbers found in Internet sites. It is also a mixed bag of many different
isotopes. There are very significant engineering problems in handling
existing radwastes and getting it to a Brown device.

There are no "good" solutions to this problem, only degrees of badness.

Mike Carrell



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 08:13:47 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04931;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 08:10:18 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:10:18 -0700
Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Conspiracy and energy production
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:22:50 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEKKDDAA.knagel gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1fdca$a838cb40$f27accd1 asus>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Resent-Message-ID: <"UZpgp.0.tC1.QrHvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47134
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Mike.

Anybody got a cheap, megawatt gamma ray laser?????
Didn't think so (sigh). Seems to me also that
when ameliorating the waste you'd end up making
the stuff around it radioactive too.

I often wondered what happened with Pauls old
patent on an RF version of the atomic battery. Was
there a technical hurdle here?

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Carrell [mailto:mikec snip.net]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 1:42 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production



----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: Conspiracy and energy production


> Ed;
>
> I gather that you're not a big conspiracy fan.
>
> Can you explain why the government is going to bury the nuclear waste
> in Yucca mountain rather than use Paul Brown's technology to do away
> with it?

Brown mounted a plausible feasibility demonstration of a method of
remediation of radioactive elements. It is accepted by  the high energy
physics community because it falls within the realm of accepted knowledge.
The apparatus is expensive, consumes significant energy, and, I believe, has
to be tuned to the specific isotope to be acted on. The quantity of material
to be moved into Yucca mountain is in the tens of kilotons, according to
numbers found in Internet sites. It is also a mixed bag of many different
isotopes. There are very significant engineering problems in handling
existing radwastes and getting it to a Brown device.

There are no "good" solutions to this problem, only degrees of badness.

Mike Carrell



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 08:19:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09438;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 08:19:04 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:19:04 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE512F6.959F1F80 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:26:04 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
	 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
	 <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com> <a0510030db90a15af105d@[63.233.227.121]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"FRMYJ.0.LJ2.ezHvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47135
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



thomas malloy wrote:

> Ed;
>
> I gather that you're not a big conspiracy fan.

I have no doubt that conspiracies exist, Tom.  However, most events can be
explained more easily by stupidity or the facts of reality.  Generally, the
system is too stupid or too driven by narrow self-interest to agree on a
conspiracy.

>
>
> Can you explain why the government is going to bury the nuclear waste
> in Yucca mountain rather than use Paul Brown's technology to do away
> with it?

Paul Brown's technology works on a small scale.  However, two problems exist.
First of all, the fuel rods would have to be separated into the various
radioactive elements, with the resulting huge amount of low level waste.  This
separation is required so that the different elements can be exposed to the
proper frequency of radiation without the radiation being wasted by just heating
the other elements.  Second, the power required to produce the radiation would be
so large to be impractical.  It is much more economic and less risky to bury the
stuff.  Perhaps some day when the method has been made more efficient, the waste
can be dug up and processed.  Meanwhile, the isotopes in the fuel rods are
decaying and becoming less deadly.

>
>
> Then there is Enron. Someone was telling me that Enron was bankrupted
> because they has stepped on too many toes which were connected to
> rich people in the energy business. I replied that as I understood
> it, they had made money on some trades, and lost money on some
> trades. The profits went on the books, and the losses were hidden in
> partnerships. If they had been making more money than they lost, they
> would still be in business. My friend said that Long Term Capital
> Management was bailed out and Enron could have been bailed out too,
> any thoughts.

Long Term Capital Management went under because they bet wrong on the derivatives
market.  This was a simple act of hubris. In addition, if they had been allowed
to fail, the whole financial system would have failed, because of the way
derivatives operate in the market.  On the other hand, Enron was not only
incompetent but was grossly dishonest with no sense of business ethics.  In
addition, they had so thoroughly bribed representatives in the government that
the government could not step in without the scandal getting even worse.  Enron
is a perfect example of the worst kind of corruption that results when business
is allowed to bribe the government.  This company could not be saved because if
it had, the Bush administration would thereby reveal just how effective the
bribery had become.

Ed

>
>
> >Dear SB,
> >
> >conspiracy to explain the US position.  In this one case, perhaps we are more
> >wise than the Japanese.
> >
> >Ed
> >
> >  >
> >>  The Japanese think that they work just fine.  They are in a crash program
> >  > to build a breeder system much larger than the one that we had and were
> >ying to save themselves.  Would that we could emulate them.
> >  >
> >>  Standing Bear
>
> --

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 10:24:11 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09378;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 10:20:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:20:59 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: zak newalexandria.org@mail.newalexandria.org
Message-Id: <a05111700b90aea577cbc [209.195.137.82]>
In-Reply-To: <a0510030db90a15af105d [63.233.227.121]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <E178Bd4-000587-00 goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
 <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8 ix.netcom.com> <a0510030db90a15af105d@[63.233.227.121]>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:22:57 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Tz'Akh" <zak newalexandria.org>
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=7.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.11
Resent-Message-ID: <"K0k-f1.0.LI2.wlJvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47136
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Ed;
>
>I gather that you're not a big conspiracy fan.
>
>Can you explain why the government is going to bury the nuclear 
>waste in Yucca mountain rather than use Paul Brown's technology to 
>do away with it?

you could also remediate it using plants, such as industrial hemp (as 
the Russian tests had showed was effective from soil samples around 
chernobyl after it blew) - but the DOE and the EPA turned a blind eye 
to our entire poster session and lecture when we presented at a 
peer-panel review last year.  I really tend to think this comes down 
to an old-boys network of trusted opinions, and if some 
advisor/consultant hasn't heard of the work, or is biased against the 
notion - your idea fails completely.  The DOD is the same way about 
quantum science - if their advisors don't like your theory's 
foundations, they axe it immediately.


-Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 16:33:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02142;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 16:30:30 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:30:30 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: list physics teaching <phys-l lists.nau.edu>
Subject: more images hidden in soundtracks
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.4.44.0205171628330.24416-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"AXpZJ.0.OX.LAPvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47137
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


The guy who decoded the hidden face has found a few more hidden images in
the same music CD.  (None so cool as the face, though.)  See:

   http://www.tp.spt.fi/~cleth/projects/aphexface/index.htm

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 17:56:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16788;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 17:52:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:52:21 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE4F113.3B8968C4 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 05:01:23 -0700
From: Akira Kawasaki <aki ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "vortex-L eskimo.com" <vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Fwd: What's New for May 17, 2002]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"mweMk.0.964.4NQvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47138
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for May 17, 2002
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:20:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 17 May 02   Washington, DC

1. SECRECY: SWIFT ACTION TAKEN TO DEAL WITH MISSILE FAILURES.  On
Tuesday, Defense Daily revealed that a Lockheed-Martin Patriot
Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) missile did not destroy its target
as the Missile Defense Agency had stated.  A second PAC-3 failed
to launch.  The Pentagon lost no time in taking firm corrective
action: on Wednesday, Defense Daily reported that in the future
all specifics of the targets and countermeasures used in tests
will be classified.  Officials denied that the secrecy order was
intended to prevent any independent review of the missile-test
program.  And I'm an alien from the planet Mongo.

2. ARMS REDUCTION: THREE-PAGE TREATY CUTS ARSENALS BY TWO-THIRDS. 
This is far more practical than destroying nuclear missiles with
interceptors.  It's also much more than a hand-shake.  The cuts
are similar to those in Start III, negotiated by Clinton at the
1997 Helsinki summit, which the Senate declined to ratify.  One
difference is that this treaty will be signed by a Republican
President.  This treaty is also full of loopholes insisted on by
the U.S.  Over strong Russian objections, the count doesn't
include warheads that are not "operationally deployed."  Nor is
there a timetable for the destruction of weapons, as long as it's
done within the 10-year life of the treaty.  

3. NUCLEAR POSTURE REVIEW: SENATE HEARING TAKES UP THE DEBATE. 
The Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs convened on Thursday to
consider implications of The Nuclear Posture Review, a  Pentagon
report leaked to the media (WN 15 Mar 02).  With no imminent
threat from the former Soviet Union, the report calls for a new
class of smaller nuclear weapons more suited to our post 9/11
conflicts, including earth-penetrating nukes.  Development would
violate the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the test moratorium, and
common sense.  Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg explained why
earth-penetrating nukes would not work against deeply-buried
targets, and could end up "killing our own troops and the local
population."  Developing new weapons sends the wrong message. 

4. "LIFTERS": ALIEN TECHNOLOGISTS SEEK MEDIA EXPOSURE.  WN got a
call this week from a network television reporter asking about
"lifter" technology.  Since NASA's Podkletnov gravity shield
flopped (WN 12 Oct 01), the only anti-gravity claim around is the
"lifter."  Developers refused to deny rumors that the idea came
from wreckage taken from the Roswell UFO crash.  Could this be? 
According to the official Air Force report, the wreckage
consisted of balsa wood sticks, metal foil, plastic tape and
neoprene.  So we went to web site of American Antigravity, which
lists materials needed to construct a lifter.  Same stuff!

(Christy Fernandez contributed to this week's What's New.)

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
Opinions are the authors, and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 17 19:17:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21645;
	Fri, 17 May 2002 19:14:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:14:55 -0700
Message-ID: <20020518021453.7593.qmail web11206.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: more images hidden in soundtracks
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.4.44.0205171628330.24416-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"AX50s1.0.3I5.UaRvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47139
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Very cool!

The last image and the second to last also have the correct
aspect to use as a desktop wallpaper :-)
--- William Beaty <billb eskimo.com> wrote:
> 
> The guy who decoded the hidden face has found a few more
> hidden images in
> the same music CD.  (None so cool as the face, though.)  See:
> 
>    http://www.tp.spt.fi/~cleth/projects/aphexface/index.htm
> 
> (((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) )
> )))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST
> website
> billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird
> science
> Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L
> webhead-L
> 


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 18 16:50:09 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15055;
	Sat, 18 May 2002 16:46:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:46:55 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:44:46 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <6ppdeu4mcf37cvoqmb9e24ud092pkgs8cq 4ax.com>
References: <002f01c1fdca$a838cb40$f27accd1 asus> <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEKKDDAA.knagel@gis.net>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMCEKKDDAA.knagel gis.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA15004
Resent-Message-ID: <"cAngD.0.9h3.kVkvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47140
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Fri, 17 May 2002 11:22:50 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>Hi Mike.
>
>Anybody got a cheap, megawatt gamma ray laser?????
>Didn't think so (sigh). Seems to me also that
>when ameliorating the waste you'd end up making
>the stuff around it radioactive too.
>
>I often wondered what happened with Pauls old
>patent on an RF version of the atomic battery. Was
>there a technical hurdle here?
[snip]
No, only a suppression related hurdle (according to PB himself).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 18 17:36:30 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13037;
	Sat, 18 May 2002 17:33:52 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:33:52 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Conspiracy and energy production
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:32:30 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <srpdeu0qm46acetmv0fnvt6ahu86mjvr0t 4ax.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020508160812.031e82b8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020514092827.03257e58@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <E178Bd4-000587-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3CE3BA5F.43BB08D8@ix.netcom.com> <a0510030db90a15af105d@[63.233.227.121]> <002f01c1fdca$a838cb40$f27accd1@asus>
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1fdca$a838cb40$f27accd1 asus>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA13006
Resent-Message-ID: <"pstTi1.0.dB3.lBlvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47141
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In reply to  Mike Carrell's message of Fri, 17 May 2002 10:42:12 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Brown mounted a plausible feasibility demonstration of a method of
>remediation of radioactive elements. It is accepted by  the high energy
>physics community because it falls within the realm of accepted knowledge.
>The apparatus is expensive, consumes significant energy, 

Quote from http://www.nucsol.com/The_Solution/the_solution.html

"Electric power can be generated from the heat produced by the process
at a rate of approximately 1520 kilowatts of core heat energy output for
every kilowatt used in the Photodeactivation process."

If true, this would appear to be well and truly capable of being a net
power producer.


>and, I believe, has
>to be tuned to the specific isotope to be acted on. 

As near as I have been able to tell, the absorbtion curve for gamma rays
is actually rather broad, so I wouldn't think that tuning would be all
that relevant. If you have any reference to the contrary, I would
appreciate it.

Short quote from PB:
"Matsumoto did not consider
other constituents of mixed waste, so this remains to be
done. However, since the thresholds and photo-cross
sections for the radioisotopes vary by only about 10%, it
is reasonable to assume that mixed waste may be treated."
(See http://www.nucsol.com/Publications/pdf/phototrans.pdf ).
[snip]

A small point I would like to add, is that if substances such as boron
or cadmium were added before treatment, these might tend to "soak up"
the neutrons freed from other isotopes, and help prevent the formation
of new radioactive isotopes during the process.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 18 20:50:48 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30484;
	Sat, 18 May 2002 20:46:35 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:46:35 -0700
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: nuenergy yahoogroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Tesla revisited
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 13:45:58 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <f86eeukcfjsctokapmpid72i1qkrpoe3e2 4ax.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_mv7eeu8rd293vhuor62fg9fdcgrm40075g.MFSBCHJLHS"
Resent-Message-ID: <"HsA0P.0.9S7.R0ovy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47142
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A


----=_mv7eeu8rd293vhuor62fg9fdcgrm40075g.MFSBCHJLHS
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I awoke in the wee hours last night, and as is common on such occasions,
my mind turned to free energy.

The Earth is a giant capacitor, and Tesla new this. It occurred to me,
that in his attempts to transmit energy over distances, he designed
resonant circuits wherein the capacitance of the Earth played a central
role. In fact it appears he used the Earth as a "multi tap" capacitor.

IOW he used the Earth as a common *shared* capacitor in different
physically separated resonant circuits, adding energy to one such tank
circuit, and extracting it from the other at a distance.

It is reported that he on occasion got more energy out of the load
circuit than he expected.

It also occurred to me that as well as being a giant capacitor, the
Earth has a magnetic field, and might also be thought of as a giant
inductance. If so, then perhaps the Earth's capacitance and inductance
form a huge tank circuit, with energy fed into it by the solar wind.

It might then be possible to extract this energy by attaching a circuit
to the Earth capacitor, designed to resonate at the same frequency as
the Earth's tank circuit. (I have but vague ideas as to what the
frequency might be).

The attached files are a Circuitmaker[1] diagram and gif thereof, that
might provide a start to tapping this potential resource.
(It is by no means the first time that such diagrams have been
presented, however I think that it may be the first time that the notion
of a multi tap capacitive coupling has been suggested. If not, please
correct my arrogance :).

[1] See www.circuitmaker.com

I have included a bifilar coil, because I have heard it said that they
will resonate at any frequency, so I thought perhaps that such a
non-specific circuit might avoid the necessity of tuning to an unknown
frequency.
The "capacitor" at the top of the circuit is open for experimentation,
and might be anything from an inverted metal salad bowl, to an
electrolytic. I have no idea what would function best, and have included
it solely as a terminator to the tank circuit, so that the charge has
somewhere to accumulate while building resonance. It needs to balance
the capacitance of the Earth, so that the charge can "slosh" back and
forth between the two.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

----=_mv7eeu8rd293vhuor62fg9fdcgrm40075g.MFSBCHJLHS
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Tesla.gif
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Tesla.gif
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----=_mv7eeu8rd293vhuor62fg9fdcgrm40075g.MFSBCHJLHS
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Tesla.CKT
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Tesla.CKT

Q2lyY3VpdE1ha2VyIFRleHQNCjUuNg0KUHJvYmVzOiAwDQo0MSAzNSA2MiA0IDk3IDEwOCA4NiA0
NiA4MiAxNiA3MyAxMTMgMTEzIDU5IDEwNSAxMDcgDQowIDUgMCAxZSswOSAwLjAwMSAyDQozMw0K
MTMgMTAgMTMgMTIgMTggMTAgMjAgMjAgMTIgMjAgDQoxMCAxMyAxMyAxMCAyMCAxMyA0NiAyMCAx
NCAyMCANCjE4IDE3IDE0IDE2IDIwIDIwIDIwIDIwIDEwIDEzIA0KMjAgMTggMTEgDQoxNzAgMTAw
IDMwIDE1MCAxMA0KMTY2IDc1IDc5OCA1NTENCjcgNS4wMDAgVg0KNyA1LjAwMCBWDQozIEdORA0K
MCAwDQoyNCAxMDAgMCAxIDANCjIwIFBhY2thZ2UsRGVzY3JpcHRpb24sDQo0MCBFOlxIT0JCSUVT
XFNPRlRXQVJFXENpcmN1aXRNYWtlclxCT00uREFUDQowIDcNCjAgNCAwLjUwMDAwMCAwLjUwMDAw
MA0KMzM0IDE3MSA0NDcgMjY4DQo5OTYxNDkwIDANCjANCjYgVGl0bGU6DQo1IE5hbWU6DQowDQow
DQowDQo3DQoxMCBDYXBhY2l0b3J+DQoyMTkgMTk2IDEyNiAwIDEgNQ0KMCAwDQowDQowIDAgODMy
IDkwDQo0IDEwcEYNCjggMCAzNiA4DQoyIEMxDQoxNSAtMTAgMjkgLTINCjANCjANCjExICVEICUx
ICUyICVWDQowDQowDQo2IFJBRDAuMg0KNQ0KDQowIDEgMiAxIDIgMA0KNjcgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAg
MA0KMSBDDQo1MTQ3IDAgMA0KMg0KMzczOTUuNSAwDQowDQoxMCBGVyBCcmlkZ2V+DQoyMTkgMzYy
IDI4MiAwIDEgOQ0KMCAwDQowDQowIDAgODMyIDE4MA0KNiBCUklER0UNCjMyIC00MCA3NCAtMzIN
CjIgRDENCjQ2IC01MCA2MCAtNDINCjANCjANCjE3ICVEICUxICUyICUzICU0ICVTDQowDQowDQo0
IFNJUDQNCjkNCg0KMCAxIDIgMyA0IDEgMiAzIDQgMA0KODggMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMA0KMSBEDQo2
MjM3IDAgMA0KMg0KMzczOTUuNSAwDQowDQo5IFJlc2lzdG9yfg0KMjE5IDM2NiAzNDQgMCAxIDUN
CjAgMA0KMA0KMCAwIDg2NCAxODANCjIgMT8NCi03IC0xNCA3IC02DQoyIFIxDQotNyAtMjQgNyAt
MTYNCjANCjANCjExICVEICUxICUyICVWDQowDQowDQo4IEFYSUFMMC40DQo1DQoNCjAgMSAyIDEg
MiAwDQo4MiAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQoxIFINCjQ4MCAwIDANCjINCjM3Mzk1LjUgMA0KMA0KMTMg
RnVzZTpUaGVybWFsfg0KMjE5IDI2MSAyNDcgMCAxIDUNCjAgMA0KMA0KMCAwIDQ5MjggMA0KMiAx
QQ0KLTcgLTE1IDcgLTcNCjIgRjENCi03IC0yNSA3IC0xNw0KMA0KMA0KMTEgJUQgJTEgJTIgJVMN
CjANCjANCjQgRlVTRQ0KNQ0KDQowIDEgMiAxIDIgMA0KODggMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMA0KMSBGDQoz
MzE1IDAgMA0KMg0KMzczOTUuNSAwDQowDQo3IEdyb3VuZH4NCjE2OCAxOTcgMzM3IDAgMSAzDQow
IDANCjANCjAgMCA1MzM0NCAwDQowDQo0IEdORDENCi0xNCAtMjYgMTQgLTE4DQowDQo0IEdORDsN
CjANCjANCjANCjANCjMNCg0KMCAxIDEgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQozIEdORA0KNTQ5IDAg
MA0KMg0KMzczOTUuNSAwDQowDQoxMiBUcmFuc2Zvcm1lcn4NCjIxOSAyMjUgMjYzIDAgMSA5DQow
IDANCjANCjAgMCA1NzYgMA0KMA0KMiBUMQ0KLTcgLTMwIDcgLTIyDQowDQowDQo0OSBMUCVEICUx
ICUyIDFtaA0NCkxTJUQgJTMgJTQgMW1oDQ0KJUQgTFAlRCBMUyVEIC45OTkNCjANCjANCjANCjkN
Cg0KMCAxIDIgMyA0IDEgMiAzIDQgMA0KNzUgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMA0KMSBUDQozOTQwIDAgMA0K
Mg0KMzczOTUuNSAwDQowDQo4IENvaWwgNVR+DQoyMTkgMTk2IDE1OSAwIDEgNQ0KMCAwDQowDQow
IDAgMTg1NiA5MA0KMiAxPw0KMTIgLTEgMjYgNw0KMiBMMQ0KMTIgLTExIDI2IC0zDQo3IEJpZmls
YXINCi0yNCAtNTYgMjUgLTQ4DQowDQoxMSAlRCAlMSAlMiAlVg0KMA0KMA0KOCBBWElBTDAuNg0K
NQ0KDQowIDEgMiAxIDIgMA0KNzYgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMA0KMSBMDQo0OTA5IDAgMA0KMg0KMzcz
OTUuNSAwDQowDQo4DQoxIDIgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDEgNyAwIDAgMg0KMTk2IDEzNQ0KMTk2IDEzMw0K
MSAxIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAyIDMgMCAwIDQNCjM5NiAyNzgNCjQwMCAyNzgNCjQwMCAzNDQNCjM4NCAz
NDQNCjMgMiAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMiAzIDAgMCA0DQozMzIgMjc4DQozMjggMjc4DQozMjggMzQ0DQoz
NDggMzQ0DQo0IDIgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDYgMiAwIDAgNQ0KMjQ0IDI3OQ0KMjQ1IDI3OQ0KMjQ1IDMx
OA0KMzY0IDMxOA0KMzY0IDMxMA0KMiA0IDAgMCAwIDE2IDAgNCAyIDAgMCAzDQoyODEgMjQ3DQoz
NjQgMjQ3DQozNjQgMjQ2DQoxIDMgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDQgNiAwIDAgMg0KMjQxIDI0Nw0KMjQ0IDI0
Nw0KMSAyIDAgMCAwIDAgMCA1IDYgMCAwIDMNCjE5NyAzMzENCjE5NyAyNzENCjIwNiAyNzENCjEg
MSAwIDAgMCAwIDAgNyA2IDAgMCAzDQoxOTYgMTg1DQoxOTYgMjU1DQoyMDYgMjU1DQozDQoxNiA4
IDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgNTQNCjExIENvdXJpZXIgTmV3DQowIDAgMCAyMw0KMjQxIDEx
NyA0MzIgMTQxDQoyNDQgMTIwIDQyOCAxMzYNCjIzIE1ldGFsIHNwaGVyZSBjYXBhY2l0b3I/DQox
NiA4IDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgNTQNCjExIENvdXJpZXIgTmV3DQowIDAgMCAyMw0KMTgz
IDM1NyAzNzcgMzgxDQoxODUgMzU5IDM3NCAzNzUNCjIzIEFjdHVhbCBFYXJ0aCBjb25uZWN0aW9u
DQoxNiA4IDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgNTQNCjExIENvdXJpZXIgTmV3DQowIDAgMCAxMg0K
MjM5IDE0NiAzNDMgMTcwDQoyNDEgMTQ4IDM0MCAxNjQNCjEyIEJpZmlsYXIgY29pbA0KMA0KMjA0
OCAwIDANCjANCjANCjANCjAgMCAwDQowDQowIDAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMA0KMA0KMA0K
MCAwIDANCjAgMCAwDQowDQowDQowIDAgMCAwDQowDQowIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMCAwIDANCjANCjAg
MCAwDQowDQowIDAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQow
IDAgMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDAN
CjANCjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAg
MA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjANCjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAg
MCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjAN
CjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0K
MCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjANCjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAw
DQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjANCjAg
MCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAw
IDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjANCjAgMCAwIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQowIDAgMCAwDQow
IDANCjAgMA0KMCAwDQowIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDAgMCAwIDANCjAgMA0KMCAwIDANCjANCg==

----=_mv7eeu8rd293vhuor62fg9fdcgrm40075g.MFSBCHJLHS--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 19 07:34:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06228;
	Sun, 19 May 2002 07:32:17 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 07:32:17 -0700
Message-ID: <3CE7AB05.F5A83EDD ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 07:39:27 -0600
From: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tesla revisited
References: <f86eeukcfjsctokapmpid72i1qkrpoe3e2 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"O0z2W1.0.EX1.nTxvy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47143
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I awoke in the wee hours last night, and as is common on such occasions,
> my mind turned to free energy.
>
> The Earth is a giant capacitor, and Tesla new this. It occurred to me,
> that in his attempts to transmit energy over distances, he designed
> resonant circuits wherein the capacitance of the Earth played a central
> role. In fact it appears he used the Earth as a "multi tap" capacitor.
>
> IOW he used the Earth as a common *shared* capacitor in different
> physically separated resonant circuits, adding energy to one such tank
> circuit, and extracting it from the other at a distance.
>
> It is reported that he on occasion got more energy out of the load
> circuit than he expected.
>
> It also occurred to me that as well as being a giant capacitor, the
> Earth has a magnetic field, and might also be thought of as a giant
> inductance. If so, then perhaps the Earth's capacitance and inductance
> form a huge tank circuit, with energy fed into it by the solar wind.
>
> It might then be possible to extract this energy by attaching a circuit
> to the Earth capacitor, designed to resonate at the same frequency as
> the Earth's tank circuit. (I have but vague ideas as to what the
> frequency might be).

Try 7.5-10 Hz.

Ed Storms

>
>
> The attached files are a Circuitmaker[1] diagram and gif thereof, that
> might provide a start to tapping this potential resource.
> (It is by no means the first time that such diagrams have been
> presented, however I think that it may be the first time that the notion
> of a multi tap capacitive coupling has been suggested. If not, please
> correct my arrogance :).
>
> [1] See www.circuitmaker.com
>
> I have included a bifilar coil, because I have heard it said that they
> will resonate at any frequency, so I thought perhaps that such a
> non-specific circuit might avoid the necessity of tuning to an unknown
> frequency.
> The "capacitor" at the top of the circuit is open for experimentation,
> and might be anything from an inverted metal salad bowl, to an
> electrolytic. I have no idea what would function best, and have included
> it solely as a terminator to the tank circuit, so that the charge has
> somewhere to accumulate while building resonance. It needs to balance
> the capacitance of the Earth, so that the charge can "slosh" back and
> forth between the two.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
>
> ....Put the "bottom line" at the top!
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------
>                 Name: Tesla.gif
>    Tesla.gif    Type: GIF Image (image/gif)
>             Encoding: base64
>
>                 Name: Tesla.CKT
>    Tesla.CKT    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>             Encoding: base64

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 19 16:01:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21603;
	Sun, 19 May 2002 15:58:32 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:58:32 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tesla revisited
In-Reply-To: <f86eeukcfjsctokapmpid72i1qkrpoe3e2 4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.4.44.0205191545320.2071-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"q0xCM1.0.OH5.Ou2wy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47144
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


The Earth's resonant frequencies are a fundamental plus overtones, with
the overtones going up to over 10KHz before they peter out.

One of the large, useful overtones is at almost exactly...

[drum roll]

60Hz!!!

Westinghouse engineers were using 133Hz and higher frequencies when Tesla
joined the project.  He insisted on 60Hz over their objections.  In
hindsight we can se why:  he was thinking of interfacing his "broadcast
power" inventions with the existing grid.

I remember seeing a recent mainstream science article about "Is the USA
power grid pumping an Earth/ionosphere cavity resonance?"  and their
conclusion was yes.

Also, if you search for "Schumann Resonance" you might find a graph of the
Earth electromagnetic resonances.  Ah, here's one below.  Wow, lookit the
60Hz line, even huge when measured in Greenland.  It looks like 60H must
be the 8th overtone about the 7.2Hz fundamental (being a spherical
resonator, 7.2*9 is closer to 60 than to 65)

http://web.archive.org/web/20011125181733/www-star.stanford.edu/~mfuelle/eicrspe.html


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 22 01:43:13 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01948;
	Wed, 22 May 2002 01:40:10 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:40:10 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100307b910c249f906 [63.233.196.116]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 03:40:16 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Where is the energy coming from
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"h2qiD.0.MU.gbrwy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47145
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I have made what promises to be the biggest thing that I have ever 
found for reversing the aging process. You put the Prill Crystals in 
a gallon of water and let them sit over night. Then you drain off 
three quarts and replace them with fresh water. Drinking the Prill 
Water is said to cleanse you body of toxins and cause it to 
regenerate itself. The water is said to be filled with an attractive, 
feminine energy and light passing through it gets a blue tinge. Ten 
gallons poured down a well causes it to produce Prill Water from then 
on. The Prill Water is said to enhance plant growth and make them 
stronger.

The Crystal Cupcake produces a more potent form of water called Magic 
Water. Drinking this water is said to stimulate DHEA production. 
There are various companies that are marketing products which are 
supposed to do the same thing. One is based on plant oils, and the 
others are plant based precursors. The Allopaths, MD's, sell an 
injectable form of DHEA, like all pharmaceuticals it interfers with 
the body's normal production of DHEA. All of theses products are 
consumable, and cost from $35- $100 per month. While the Crystal 
Cupcake costs $300, it's a one time purchase.

I have no idea what kind of energy would produce the above mentioned 
results, The water's viscosity is said to thicken, in addition to 
changes in the color of transmitted light.

I called my friend Connie, he's one of the few people I know, who has 
any understanding of quantum vacuum fluxations. As soon as I told him 
about the Prill Water he said that the energy is ionic. He also 
figured that the water's PH would rise, which it does.

My sponsor is a retired Chem E. We had a long conversation about 
Natural Philosophy. He's been reading Russell, and was attempting to 
explain the phenomena in terms of multiple vortices. I told him that 
he was surprisingly well informed and open minded, considering his 
education.

I only took a few years of chemistry, but I do remember that 
ionization requires energy. This is not a conventional phenomena, 
because the crystals are not consumed, and the Prill Water is able to 
perpetuate itself.

-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 22 02:14:26 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA15146;
	Wed, 22 May 2002 02:11:36 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 02:11:36 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rick mail.highsurf.com
Message-Id: <v04210104b911109cc2ea [192.168.123.2]>
In-Reply-To: <a05100307b910c249f906 [63.233.196.116]>
References: <a05100307b910c249f906 [63.233.196.116]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:11:24 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Where is the energy coming from
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"xMkc13.0.Zi3.83swy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47146
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I have made what promises to be the biggest thing that I have ever found for reversing the aging process.

You put da Prill in da coconut and drinka bowl up...

Boop deeeeeeee- areepa boppa zoopdee ...

Damn, I hate that Napster's gone.  :(

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 05:19:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA10566;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 05:16:03 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 05:16:03 -0700
Message-Id: <4.3.1.20020524124729.00af6e70 pop3.newnet.co.uk>
X-Sender: lawrence pop3.newnet.co.uk
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 12:57:41 +0100
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Stephen Lawrence <stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk>
Subject: Memory of Water/ where is energy coming from
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"8MVhv.0.ta2.2yYxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47147
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Falun Gong/Dafa people doing interesting expts with the memory of 
water.  Thoughts are directed at water jars which are then frozen.  The 
shape of the ice crystals formed depends on the thoughts sent.  Evidence 
for memory of water?

Chinese character for water consists of six spokes, the underlying ice 
crystal shape.  Did they know something we didn't?

www.pureinsight.org

Stephen .
"The process of moving forward involves somebody stepping out of line."
8 Supanee Court, French's Road, Cambridge, England, CB4 3LB.  Tel/Fax +44 
1223 564373

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 10:51:45 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29685;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 10:43:22 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:43:22 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530500b9142a3b2455 [12.21.211.96]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:49:15 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Pioneer's Slowing Explained
Resent-Message-ID: <"bpNo83.0.gF7.wkdxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47148
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 6:24 AM 5/16/2, Charles Ford wrote:
>--- Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net> wrote:
>> understanding of geometry, but not a surprising type of
>> misconception to be
>> found in a non-quantitative "theory."
>>
>> I will not be able to respond to any other communications for
>> at least a week.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Horace Heffner
>
>I get it...  You want the last word.  :-)


No, not this time.  8^)   I went to Pittsburgh from here in Palmer, Alaska,
to see my son John graduate from Carnegie Mellon, and to see him receive
the Allen Newell Award for Exellence in Undergraduate Research for his
senior thesis work in TCP queuing in high performance networks.  This was a
high honor for John and it was a great thrill to see the ceremony.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 12:31:43 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17854;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 12:28:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 12:28:48 -0700
From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:28:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Memory of Water/ where is energy coming from
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, aelewis@provide.net, Roundtable7@yahoogroups.com,
        Wangus yahoogroups.com
CC: ConexTom aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a_boundary"
X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50
Resent-Message-ID: <"XGsN13.0.nM4.lHfxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47149
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


--part1_12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:19:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk writes:


> the memory of 
> water.  Thoughts are directed at water jars which are then frozen.  The 
> shape of the ice crystals formed depends on the thoughts sent.  Evidence 
> for memory of water?
> 

The publication below, has an article of how electromagnetic waves and radio 
waves may retain information in water. Most life forms and cells, are made of 
water, including brain cells, therefore, it makes sense that water would 
retain memories. 

58. Electomagnetic Bio-Information, Fritz Albert Popp.., 1989, Urban & 
Scwarzenberg, Munchen-Wien-Baltimore


Respectfully,


Thomas Clark
tom rhfweb.com
www.rhfweb.com\personal


--part1_12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:19:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">the memory of 
<BR>water. &nbsp;Thoughts are directed at water jars which are then frozen. &nbsp;The 
<BR>shape of the ice crystals formed depends on the thoughts sent. &nbsp;Evidence 
<BR>for memory of water?
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>The publication below, has an article of how electromagnetic waves and radio waves may retain information in water. Most life forms and cells, are made of water, including brain cells, therefore, it makes sense that water would retain memories. 
<BR>
<BR>58. Electomagnetic Bio-Information, Fritz Albert Popp.., 1989, Urban &amp; Scwarzenberg, Munchen-Wien-Baltimore
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\personal
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 16:58:28 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30770;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 16:55:50 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:55:50 -0700
Message-ID: <002101c2037e$82865700$6209da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <12c.11e54019.2a1fee4a aol.com>
Subject: Re: Memory of Water/ where is energy coming from
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:55:38 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2035C.F9FBD2A0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"GbqD_1.0.iW7.6Cjxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47150
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2035C.F9FBD2A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I remember reading about the crystalline nature of water, in that it =
'nests' like a granular substance and these clumps of water can very in =
size, which changes the water's properties.  It has been suggested that =
tubulin, the microscopic chain-material that makes up the fibers inside =
our nerves and every cell, is responsible for the rising of =
consciousness in humans through its ability to channel - and apparently =
structure and de-structure in a water base - using quantum interactions =
in the particles of tubulin and the water base.  Numerous studies have =
been done which show that in places where natural springs which are =
believed to have especially healing powers, really do.  They contain =
clustered elements in colloid suspension which is in itself a sort of =
semicrystalline gel. =20

Suffice to say, nature already has it there for us to discover.  It's =
just elusive about the subtle nuances of its most intimate workings. =20

Ryan H

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: ConexTom aol.com=20
  To: vortex-l eskimo.com ; aelewis@provide.net ; =
Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com ; Wangus@yahoogroups.com=20
  Cc: ConexTom aol.com=20
  Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Memory of Water/ where is energy coming from


  In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:19:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, =
stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk writes:=20



    the memory of=20
    water.  Thoughts are directed at water jars which are then frozen.  =
The=20
    shape of the ice crystals formed depends on the thoughts sent.  =
Evidence=20
    for memory of water?=20



  The publication below, has an article of how electromagnetic waves and =
radio waves may retain information in water. Most life forms and cells, =
are made of water, including brain cells, therefore, it makes sense that =
water would retain memories.=20

  58. Electomagnetic Bio-Information, Fritz Albert Popp.., 1989, Urban & =
Scwarzenberg, Munchen-Wien-Baltimore=20


  Respectfully,=20


  Thomas Clark=20
  tom rhfweb.com=20
  www.rhfweb.com\personal=20


------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2035C.F9FBD2A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I remember reading about the =
crystalline nature of=20
water, in that it 'nests' like a granular substance and these clumps of =
water=20
can very in size, which changes the water's properties.&nbsp; It has =
been=20
suggested that tubulin, the microscopic chain-material that makes up the =
fibers=20
inside our nerves and every cell, is responsible for the rising of =
consciousness=20
in humans through its ability to channel - and apparently structure and=20
de-structure in a water base - using quantum interactions in the =
particles of=20
tubulin and the water base.&nbsp;&nbsp;Numerous studies have been=20
done&nbsp;which show that in places where natural springs which are =
believed to=20
have especially healing powers, really do.&nbsp; They =
contain&nbsp;clustered=20
elements in colloid suspension which is in itself a sort of =
semicrystalline=20
gel.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Suffice to say, nature already has it =
there for us=20
to discover.&nbsp; It's just elusive about the subtle nuances of its =
most=20
intimate workings.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ryan H</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:ConexTom aol.com" =
title=3DConexTom aol.com>ConexTom@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com"=20
  title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com>vortex-l@eskimo.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:aelewis provide.net"=20
  title=3Daelewis provide.net>aelewis@provide.net</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com"=20
  title=3DRoundtable7 yahoogroups.com>Roundtable7@yahoogroups.com</A> ; =
<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Wangus yahoogroups.com"=20
  title=3DWangus yahoogroups.com>Wangus@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:ConexTom aol.com"=20
  title=3DConexTom aol.com>ConexTom@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 24, 2002 3:28 =
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Memory of Water/ =
where is=20
  energy coming from</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
  5/24/2002 8:19:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:stephen lawrence.newnet.co.uk">stephen@lawrence.newnet.co.=
uk</A>=20
  writes: <BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">the memory of <BR>water. &nbsp;Thoughts are directed at =
water=20
    jars which are then frozen. &nbsp;The <BR>shape of the ice crystals =
formed=20
    depends on the thoughts sent. &nbsp;Evidence <BR>for memory of =
water?=20
    <BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial=20
  lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>The publication below, has =
an article of=20
  how electromagnetic waves and radio waves may retain information in =
water.=20
  Most life forms and cells, are made of water, including brain cells,=20
  therefore, it makes sense that water would retain memories. =
<BR><BR>58.=20
  Electomagnetic Bio-Information, Fritz Albert Popp.., 1989, Urban &amp; =

  Scwarzenberg, Munchen-Wien-Baltimore <BR><BR><BR>Respectfully,=20
  <BR><BR><BR>Thomas Clark <BR>tom rhfweb.com =
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\personal=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2035C.F9FBD2A0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 17:04:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01759;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 17:02:23 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:02:23 -0700
Message-ID: <3CEED520.43DE7D91 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:04:48 -0700
From: Akira Kawasaki <aki ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: [Fwd: What's New for May 24, 2002]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"0fnu42.0.PR.EIjxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47151
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for May 24, 2002
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 24 May 02   Washington, DC

1. PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM: STEPHEN JAY GOULD DIES AT 60.  In the
never ending battle against those who turn to religious myths
rather than science to explain why things are the way they are,
science has lost one of its most eloquent and beloved champions.  
Years of intense pain from the cancer that finally claimed his
life never dimmed his sense of humor or his fierce determination
to tell the story of evolution with such clarity and logic that
people could not help but understand.  Evolution, Gould argued,
is not a steady progression toward some goal, but abrupt spurts
of adaptation to an environment reshuffled by cosmic accidents. 
This is not the age of man, he argued, nor was there an age of
the dinosaur; it is, as it has always been, the age of bacteria.

2. MISCONDUCT?  BELL LABS APPOINTS A PANEL TO INVESTIGATE.  
Rumors of serious misconduct charges leveled at the world's most
successful laboratory (eleven Bell Labs researchers have shared
in six Nobel prizes) suddenly burst forth on the pages of the New
York Times.  Lucent Technologies had responded to the accusations
by appointing an independent panel of high-level scientists to
investigate.  We can recall no similar action by a major research
lab.  It reflects the importance Lucent attaches to the almost
mythic reputation of Bell Labs, as well as the significance of
the work, which included a single molecule electronic switch.  

3. SECRECY: "THE EINSTEIN FILE" BY FRED JEROME.  Most physicists
carry around in their heads a collection of Einstein anecdotes,
such as his response to a reporter who asked: "Will they ever
invent an anti-gravity machine?" "They already have," Einstein
solemnly replied, "its called an elevator." But, "The Einstein
File: J. Edgar Hoover's Secret War Against the World's Most
Famous Scientist" paints a picture of an Einstein of whom most
scientists have been only vaguely aware: Einstein the astute
politician and passionate civil rights champion. Fortunately,
Fred Jerome waged his own two-year war in the courts to make the
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) do what it was meant to do. The
government was compelled to release a less-censored copy of
Einstein's 1500 page FBI file.  In the McCarthy era, Einstein saw
reflections of the fascism he fled Germany to avoid. In today's
developing climate of secrecy, scientists may see reflections of
the Einstein file. 

What's New was shortened this week. Bob Park is recovering from
surgery related to his encounter with a tree. We expect to have
him back in the office next week. (Christy Ann Fernandez
contributed to this weeks What's New.) 

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY and THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND 
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
American Physical Society or the University, but they should be.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 18:24:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08523;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 18:21:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 18:21:21 -0700
From: Erikbaard aol.com
Message-ID: <10.1f450cf5.2a2040e9 aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:20:41 EDT
Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for May 24, 2002]
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10503
Resent-Message-ID: <"Tca9R.0.z42.GSkxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47152
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dr. Park's "What's New" column is free to anyone who subscribes.  Why is this 
being forwarded?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 24 23:18:22 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA22171;
	Fri, 24 May 2002 23:15:40 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 23:15:40 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100303b914b5abd6c2 [63.233.225.17]>
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.20020524124729.00af6e70 pop3.newnet.co.uk>
References: <4.3.1.20020524124729.00af6e70 pop3.newnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 01:15:52 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Memory of Water/ where is energy coming from
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"MG6ei1.0.JQ5.Cmoxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47153
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>
>
Chinese character for water consists of six spokes, the underlying 
ice crystal shape.  Did they know something we didn't?

No, they took the time to look at snow flakes.

-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 10:25:19 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28519;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 10:22:18 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:22:18 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530501b91575fe16bd [12.110.74.28]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:29:06 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Boron Nitgride (BN) Buckyballs and CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"xYzpv1.0.Rz6.9Xyxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47154
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

If only it were possible to get some deuterium inside those BN Buckyballs
(see below) or shells.  Perhaps deuterium can be diffused through a layer
of BN material by electrolytic adsorbtion?  The BN may be sufficiently
chemically stable. If the BN can not be made sufficiently conductive then
perhaps it can be Pd plated or the Pd vacuum deposited.  Alternatively,
perhaps the deuterium could be deposited in the formation process.  If a
very low, but not too low fusion rate were achieved, then a material would
be available that remains "warm", and thus might be useful for heating
purposes.


>PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
>The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
>Number 590  May 21, 2002   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and
>James Riordon
[snip]
>SOLID NITROGEN IN NANOCAGES.  Carbon nanotubes are
>quite popular now for their prospective electrical, thermal, and
>even selective-chemistry applications.  Inject some nitrogen into
>the formation process and you get C-N tubes.  Take the CN
>nanotubes, mix in boron oxide vapor, N2 gas, and heat at 2000 K,
>and you get something new again: multilayered BN nanoparticles.
>Scientists at the National Institute for Materials Science in
>Tsukuba (Dmitri Golberg, 81-298-58-5655,
>golberg.dmitri nims.go.jp) and the University of Sussex suggest
>that their 30-100-nm-sized BN balls might prove to be more
>exciting than the carbon equivalent; the BN particles are very good
>insulators (when they contain iron, nickel, or cobalt blobs) and like
>carbon buckyballs are good lubricants, but are chemically much
>more stable at high temperatures than their C counterparts.
>Furthermore, some of the inner nested BN shells can shrink,
>bringing enormous pressures (several GPa) to bear.  The result is a
>transformation from graphitelike into diamondlike BN.  Amid this
>high-pressure nanocell a B-rich layer forms and the conversion of
>N2 into nanocrystals proceeds in the sealed inner void, all at room
>temperature.  (Golberg et al., Journal of Chemical Physics, 15 May
>2002).

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 10:37:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01599;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 10:37:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:37:29 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530503b9157de2f161 [12.110.74.99]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:44:21 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Boron Nitride (BN) Buckyballs and CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"VaskQ2.0.nO.Olyxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47156
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

If only it were possible to get some deuterium inside those BN Buckyballs
(see below) or shells.  Perhaps deuterium can be diffused through a layer
of BN material by electrolytic adsorbtion?  The BN may be sufficiently
chemically stable. If the BN can not be made sufficiently conductive then
perhaps it can be Pd plated or the Pd vacuum deposited.  Alternatively,
perhaps the deuterium could be deposited in the formation process.  If a
very low, but not too low fusion rate were achieved, then a material would
be available that remains "warm", and thus might be useful for heating
purposes.


>PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
>The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
>Number 590  May 21, 2002   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and
>James Riordon
[snip]
>SOLID NITROGEN IN NANOCAGES.  Carbon nanotubes are
>quite popular now for their prospective electrical, thermal, and
>even selective-chemistry applications.  Inject some nitrogen into
>the formation process and you get C-N tubes.  Take the CN
>nanotubes, mix in boron oxide vapor, N2 gas, and heat at 2000 K,
>and you get something new again: multilayered BN nanoparticles.
>Scientists at the National Institute for Materials Science in
>Tsukuba (Dmitri Golberg, 81-298-58-5655,
>golberg.dmitri nims.go.jp) and the University of Sussex suggest
>that their 30-100-nm-sized BN balls might prove to be more
>exciting than the carbon equivalent; the BN particles are very good
>insulators (when they contain iron, nickel, or cobalt blobs) and like
>carbon buckyballs are good lubricants, but are chemically much
>more stable at high temperatures than their C counterparts.
>Furthermore, some of the inner nested BN shells can shrink,
>bringing enormous pressures (several GPa) to bear.  The result is a
>transformation from graphitelike into diamondlike BN.  Amid this
>high-pressure nanocell a B-rich layer forms and the conversion of
>N2 into nanocrystals proceeds in the sealed inner void, all at room
>temperature.  (Golberg et al., Journal of Chemical Physics, 15 May
>2002).

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 10:42:39 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00793;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 10:36:30 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:36:30 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530502b9157b4a555d [12.110.74.99]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:43:23 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for May 24, 2002]
Resent-Message-ID: <"mWwLW3.0.IC.Tkyxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47155
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 9:20 PM 5/24/2, Erikbaard aol.com wrote:
>Dr. Park's "What's New" column is free to anyone who subscribes.  Why is this
>being forwarded?

This forwarding of "what's New" has been appreciated and requested by
various vortex members because the material is almost always relevant, and
is often discussed.  Posting it conveniently places it in the vortex
archives under a proper and uniform subject heading, gives resulting
threads a similar naming uniformity, and avoids the need for everyone to
subscribe indiviually.  It also makes newbies aware of the long running
soap opera involving Park and other debunkers.  The material will likely be
posted in one form or another anyway, so better to have it use the
bandwidth in the form it is.

Many thanks to Akira Kawasaki for his long and faithful posting.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 11:29:34 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07319;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 10:54:12 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:54:12 -0700
X-Sent: 25 May 2002 17:53:33 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525135222.03251d48 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:53:29 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for May 24, 2002]
In-Reply-To: <v01530502b9157b4a555d [12.110.74.99]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"fRzNF.0.Ho1.4_yxy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47157
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace Heffner wrote:

>This forwarding of "what's New" has been appreciated and requested by 
>various vortex members because the material is almost always relevant, and 
>is often discussed.

I do not think Akira forwards all of the "What's New" columns. Only the 
relevant ones.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 13:01:12 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17582;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 12:58:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:58:09 -0700
X-Sent: 25 May 2002 19:57:34 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525155438.03251d48 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:57:16 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Back from ICCF-9
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"MIKbB2.0.ZI4.Gp-xy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47158
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greetings All.

I stumbled off the airplane from Beijing late last night. There is a lot to 
report from ICCF-9, but it is complicated so I should work on a preliminary 
description for a few days before posting it. These conferences are more 
difficult to describe than they were a few years ago because experiments 
are much more sophisticated. Results are no longer binary: heat or no heat. 
Bare bones, basic repeatability is good in most experiments. Results are 
usually multifaceted: heat plus charged particles plus transmutations. When 
results are less than satisfactory it is because they vary over a wide 
range and do not correlate well with one-another. Expectations and 
standards are rising. A few years ago researchers were pleased to see 
something happening in most runs. Now they want to see the same thing 
happen to within an order of magnitude.

I think most participants would agree that the most exciting results are:

* The Iwamura experiment and some replications of it in China. Iwamura will 
be published in the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics in July. Electronic 
preprints should be available in June.

* Charged particles from similar thin film experiments by Miley.

The buzzword seems to be flux -- not just loading but flux, and perhaps 
flux instead of loading.

Some Chinese researchers have been remarkable work with the thinnest of 
resources. One of the conference sponsors was a remarkable person, Dr. D. 
R. Wang, president and owner of the Beijing Great-Wall Ti-GOLD Corporation, 
a small factory in a run-down working-class suburb of Beijing, that makes 
gigantic vacuum ion plating machines. He is sponsoring an experiment 
similar to Iwamura's, conducted by university graduate students who are 
camped out in his factory. Multilayer thin film diaphragms are fabricated 
and tested in situ. Excess heat is measured with an IR detector. This 
experiment was started last fall and it is just getting underway. It has 
not produced results yet, but it is the third and most ambitious version of 
the experiment, and the previous two versions worked. Most conference 
participants visited the factory in two buses. The experiment is described 
in a 2-page handout which I will scan and upload later on.

I was very pleased to see that Ota & Fujii at Yokohama National University 
have finally observed excess heat several time runs in a row, with highest 
heat they have yet measured. Ota has struggled for six years to replicate 
the Patterson light water palladium-nickel results, and he is at last 
achieving notable success. This is the kind of heroic dedication and 
stick-to-itiveness cold fusion demands. There are not many researchers 
capable of it. McKubre was also favorably impressed by this. Last year 
after JCF-3 I expressed concerns about the rapid onset of the heat within 
three minutes after electrolysis begins. The experiment seems to have no 
significant incubation time, whereas Patterson and others have reported it 
takes at least 20 minutes to begin. I was worried that the rapid startup 
might indicate an instrument artifact, although the instruments are good 
and a dummy cell run in parallel never shows excess heat. McKubre set my 
mind at ease on this. He said a rapid startup is expected because the metal 
film is thin and Ota soaks the beads in warm electrolyte before 
electrolysis begins, which McKubre says is a good idea.


. . . Beijing it is quite a place. It reminds me of Tokyo circa 1972. 
People like Bjorn Lomborg who pooh-pooh the population & pollution crises 
should be forced to live there for a year. I had never been in China 
before, and I know little about it, despite several courses in Chinese 
history and anthropology. They seem to have way too much history. It is a 
burden. Their problems may be summed up as a surfeit of extremities: too 
many people, too much history, extreme communism before and perhaps 
overdone capitalism now. And as a veteran traveler to the Orient I have 
long felt that a major problem with the Far East is that it is too far. 
That's my impression after 16 hours of air travel with the worst possible 
jet lag, a 12-hour difference.

Despite the difficulty of totaling to China, there was pretty good turnout 
at the conference. About 130 participants and another 30 mainly from Russia 
who couldn't get visas, or couldn't make it for some other reason. There 
was a large contingent from Italy. Half of it was called back to Italy on 
Thursday by the Reigning Prince of Italian physics, Prof. Carlo Rubbia, who 
has recently commented in the newspapers that cold fusion is real and 
important. He wanted the latest information and apparently it could not 
wait until next week, so they rushed back to tell him.

Peter Hagelstein was dragooned into chairing the next ICCF conference, 
ICCF-10. He was gratified to learn of the Lexus luxury automobile and the 
beach house that goes along with that job, until he discovered the Lexus is 
a matchbox toy and the beach is in Vladivostok. He needs all the help he 
can get, so rather foolishly, I have volunteered to assist him with the 
conference web page and such secretarial duties as I am capable of. When 
the abstracts are scrambled and the map shows the wrong hotel it will be my 
fault.

Hagelstein and I think we should establish a more permanent ICCF 
organization and Web presence. We discussed some innovative and probably 
disastrous ways to organize a conference, such as posting all abstracts in 
advance and having all registered participants vote on which ones they 
would prefer to see in the oral sessions and which should be relegated to 
poster sessions. Traditionally such decisions are made by a secret 
committee in a smoke filled room, in a politically charged atmosphere. We 
thought a more democratic, overtly political, Internet based approach would 
be a breath of fresh air. The problem with all this is that it costs 
$50,000 to put on a conference, which is approximately $49,999 more than 
anyone in the field can scrape up at the moment. Because we have no money, 
we will have to rely on the Web to an unprecedented degree. Previous ICCF 
organizers have had little or no experience with computers. I do not mean 
they were unfamiliar with the Internet; I mean they use pen recorders 
instead of computers.

Participants agreed that a two-year gap between conferences is too long, 
especially considering the actuarial tables, so the next meeting is 
tentatively scheduled for Autumn 2003, to be held in Boston or Washington, 
D.C. I recommended Gaithersburg, Maryland, a close-in suburb of Washington. 
Specifically, I would like to hold the conference across the street from 
the hot fusion lobby, the Fusion Power Associates. Peter thought that might 
be a little foolhardy. Given our funding situation we may end up holding it 
on the sidewalk in front of the Associates, in a sort of geriatric 1960s 
style Be-in or Happening. Perhaps they will let us plug in the overhead 
projector. If they are not good sports, and they call the police instead, 
we might adjourn and follow in General Lee's footsteps to the North. We 
could hold the conference on my property in Gettysburg. There is plenty of 
room in the barn, which now features an electrical outlet and is no longer 
on the verge of collapse. We have no running water or flush toilet, but 
there is plenty of room in the woods and fields to pitch tents. People in 
this business must be prepared to Make Sacrifices and Rough It.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 13:35:50 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30023;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 13:33:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:33:20 -0700
X-Sent: 25 May 2002 20:32:47 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525163222.03251d48 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 16:32:44 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: New Scientist: supernova threatens earth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"Rr-cM3.0.1L7.GK_xy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47159
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Slightly off topic:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992311

- JR 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 15:06:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23079;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 15:03:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:03:15 -0700
X-Sent: 25 May 2002 22:02:42 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525173336.03270e78 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:02:27 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Harold Aspden's Opinion on the Correa PAGD  
  Invention
In-Reply-To: <003001c1fdca$a8e84520$f27accd1 asus>
References: <200205120324.g4C3OKa10274 host19.apollohosting.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020514163455.03216598 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
 <a05100316b90a68357484 [63.233.227.121]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"xeuxa2.0.Xe5.Ye0yy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47160
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

>To my knowledge, there have been no tests of Correa devices on the 
>premises of Gene's New Energy Research Laboratory. Gene has made several 
>visit to the Correa's laboratory to observe demonstrations of several 
>devices and phenomena. I have made one visit, several years ago. None of 
>these visits were under  'due diligence' rules, which allow detailed 
>examination of apparatus, setups, and challenges to phenomena observed.

Carrell's visit was valuable and worthwhile, and his report in I.E. was 
illuminating. But not enough!


>A formal, "due diligence" demonstration of the PAGD phenomenon is a 
>four-day affair . . .

Before I invested in such a thing, I would want to see a two-month affair, 
or six-months with the Correas not present, and at least one independent 
replication from scratch.


>PAGD works as a phenomena. Developing that phenomena into a device ready 
>for prime time is about $15 million, according to Correa's estimate. In my 
>opinion, that estimate is realistic.

I am not sure what "prime time" means in this context, but that would 
hardly be enough for a commercial product. Perhaps it would suffice for a 
prototype. A product would take $150 million, or $1.5 billion. $15 million 
would not even pay for the health & safety testing and the bill from 
Underwriter's Laboratory.


> > >3. The Correas are monumentally bad at attractive venture capital.
>
>What venture capitalists typically want to do is package a gimmick, sell
>stock, get rich, and sell out. The Correas have been approached by many 
>parties with smoke-and-mirrors credentials and twisty agendas.

Ah ha! So, they are monumentally bad at attracting venture capital, just as 
I suspected. If they would cast their net wider, present the product 
competently, and make a reasonable business proposal they would find many 
honest investors. Assuming the thing works the way they claim it does, any 
sensible, experienced businessman could raise the necessary capital in one 
month.


>Developing the technology requires a hand picked team of specialists to 
>whom the Correas would have to make a multi-year financial  commitment to 
>order their lives to work on the task.

I think that is nonsense. Developing technology requires hoards of unwashed 
misfits no one has ever heard of, who usually camp out in cheap motels, 
under desks, or in windblown shacks they build themselves on beaches in the 
middle of winter. They survive on pizza and noodles. Examples include Bill 
Gates in 1975, W. & O. Wright camped out at Kitty Hawk, and the grad 
students presently living in a room in the Great Wall Tri-Gold Corporation, 
who have not had time to go home and see their wives and families for 
weeks. The last thing you want are experienced specialists. They have 
already accomplished their life's goals. They will spend ten times more 
money and time than is necessary. You want people who do not know what is 
impossible.


>Because of this, Correa demands technical and management control of the 
>enterprise . . .

No sane businessman would give them that. You might as well pour money on a 
pile of currency and use it to barbecue shrimp.


Someone else wrote:

> > You obviously haven't read the Correa's website, Jed. They have
> > presented it to anyone who will listen to them. I recall one quote,
> > "this organization will still be around when your patent expires."

But it will have no intellectual property and no reason to exist. It will 
be pointless. Copies of the Russian Buran Space Shuttle are still around 
for that matter, but one could not be auctioned off for $6 million, and 
roof collapsed on another, leaving it under a pile of rubble and two dead 
bodies. The Buran will never be flown, and will never serve any purpose. 
Preserving them is a waste of money.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat May 25 21:55:36 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19370;
	Sat, 25 May 2002 21:47:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 21:47:48 -0700
Message-ID: <3CF068E5.37A23167 ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 21:47:33 -0700
From: Akira Kawasaki <aki ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Back from ICCF-9
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525155438.03251d48 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"PMKlc3.0.ak4.pZ6yy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47161
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

May 25, 2002

Vortex,

Excellent preliminary overview of the ICCF-9 Conference by Jed! 
It has neatly capsulized the meeting. Needless to say, the 
event was positive as it should be.

I was able to record the Conference in video after preliminary
difficulties reaching an understanding with the ICCF-9 organizing 
body including Dr. Li. Dr. Mallove was also able to record the 
Proceedings after some clearing of the air.

Before I left Beijing for home, the ICCF-9, i.e. Dr. Li's supporting
student staff, was able to copy ten of my sixteen mini-DV cassettes 
prior to my leaving on Friday. This represents about twenty two 
hours of recording. I did not record the poster displays since 
this was very awkward to record the individual sheets adequately.
However, the brief oral presentations of the posters were recorded.

The ICCf-9 had stipulated that they have a copy of my recordings prior
to leaving for home. And also a "deposit" was demanded to show good 
faith on my part for performance. The details were never clarified. 
Perhaps something was lost between their mentality and translation 
to English through the e-mail.

So after each day's recording, I handed the taped cassettes to Dr. Li
for duplication. Initially the demand was that I make the duplicates 
for their possession. This was ridiculous since I was not about to lug 
extra equipment to make copies at my time and expense for their use. 
It turned out that Tsinghua University's Physics Department did have a 
VCR but not any mini-DV equipment to run the tapes. So at the end of 
the second day of recording, I 'show and tell' the students how to 
transfer the tapes running in my camera to their VCR. I left the the 
whole equipment with them. There was an Owner's Manual to
refer to if there were difficulties and my room number to call if
needed. They did not call and they preferred not to read English.
The students brought my equipment and duplicated tapes back the next
morning in time to record the next session. The students were up all
night duplicating the tapes. It seems they recorded the tapes to a 
video CD format. This seems to be the preferred video format in China
and elsewhere in Asia for viewing video formats, pirated or otherwise. 
They are of lower resolution --- but it is so cheap to make. "Democracy
(economic) in action. Not much chance of merchandising a commercial 
CD-Video here in the United States. It is not allowed (legally). 
It would not support the bloated, overpaid  management style we 
have here. My fear in using the format is the loss of legibility of
the viewgraph words. But they are difficult to impossible to read while
on display anyway.
By Friday, ten cassettes were duplicated and six more were yet to be
done. So with an understanding and trust on a hand shake, I gave them
two options. One, to leave the unduplicated tapes there in Beijing 
until such equipment was made available either through their 
acquisition eventually (or I could send a camera). OR, I will make 
the duplicates at home and send  them the copies. They (including Dr.
Li) trusted my hand shake. The students wanted the copies in video CD. 
They wanted to make available the ICCF-9 Proceedings on the Internet, 
which is fine with me. As I told them originally, my purpose was
archival and not profit motivated. ICCF-9  spoke of unkept promises 
in the past in videotaping. What unkept promises? Anyway, more 
power to them to spread the information. I have not copyrighted 
any of the ICCF conference recordings, nor do I intend to. There were no 
demands made on Dr. Mallove's recordings and I think he was able take 
his tapes home without any hindrances.

There was a very professional grade DV format videotaping on the first
day or two of the session but this disappeared. I thought it was
commissioned by the ICCF-9 for their archiving but this seems not 
to be the case. I had earlier e-mail inquired what they were planning 
to do in regard to possible media interests since the recent Taleyarkin 
news note. There were no replies.
At least the cameraman using their equipment gave a thumbs up 
looking at the screen of my taping. 
I wonder who they represented.

As for Beijing, It is obvious China is trying to transform itself
infrasturcturally to a market economy while retaining its communistic
roots. All in time for the Y2008 Olympics, I hear. I see the new, and I
smell the old while walking the neighborhoods. Like Jed mentioned, 
it's like how Japan changed as it evolved after the war.
The United States in turn, and other capitalistic economies as well,
seems to be evolving into what I label as communistic capitalism, as
contrasted with China's capitalistic communism, as the U.S. goes 
for the global reach of its merchandising of products and the race 
to control of resources.
Whether for the good or evil,  the twain of ideologies are coming to a
meeting. It certainly speaks to lessening of diversity.  My choices of
soft drinks in Beijing was only Coke or Sprite. It was Bireley's 
(Pepsi) Orange Drink during my visit  to Japan during the 
Occupation. At least Japan had other choices since they never went to 
communism like China did.

The trip to the Great Wall was interesting. England has remnants of one
itself on a smaller scale. To me, it spoke of how ingrained
establishments pursues an idea beyond obsolescence before giving it up. 
Something that we are observing in our effort to have cold fusion 
recognized.

I myself have been pursuing cold fusion experiments in my own 'garage'
since 1999. I started on the protocol question and went on. And I am 
satisfied qualitatively that the effect is real and tallies with 
what is being presented at the ICCF Conferences, past and present. 
It is reproducible. 
So I have not been just a passive observer. Perhaps one day ---

By the way, fusion was recognized about the same time as fission. The
times being what it was, it was that fission was more amenable to 
the 'Bomb' than the fusion effect. At least that is my take at 
the moment.


-AK-

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Greetings All.
>
> I stumbled off the airplane from Beijing late last night. There is a lot to
> report from ICCF-9, but it is complicated so I should work on a preliminary
> description for a few days before posting it. These conferences are more
> difficult to describe than they were a few years ago because experiments
> are much more sophisticated. Results are no longer binary: heat or no heat.
> Bare bones, basic repeatability is good in most experiments. Results are
> usually multifaceted: heat plus charged particles plus transmutations. When
> results are less than satisfactory it is because they vary over a wide
> range and do not correlate well with one-another. Expectations and
> standards are rising. A few years ago researchers were pleased to see
> something happening in most runs. Now they want to see the same thing
> happen to within an order of magnitude.
>
> I think most participants would agree that the most exciting results are:
>
> * The Iwamura experiment and some replications of it in China. Iwamura will
> be published in the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics in July. Electronic
> preprints should be available in June.
>
> * Charged particles from similar thin film experiments by Miley.
>
> The buzzword seems to be flux -- not just loading but flux, and perhaps
> flux instead of loading.
>
> Some Chinese researchers have been remarkable work with the thinnest of
> resources. One of the conference sponsors was a remarkable person, Dr. D.
> R. Wang, president and owner of the Beijing Great-Wall Ti-GOLD Corporation,
> a small factory in a run-down working-class suburb of Beijing, that makes
> gigantic vacuum ion plating machines. He is sponsoring an experiment
> similar to Iwamura's, conducted by university graduate students who are
> camped out in his factory. Multilayer thin film diaphragms are fabricated
> and tested in situ. Excess heat is measured with an IR detector. This
> experiment was started last fall and it is just getting underway. It has
> not produced results yet, but it is the third and most ambitious version of
> the experiment, and the previous two versions worked. Most conference
> participants visited the factory in two buses. The experiment is described
> in a 2-page handout which I will scan and upload later on.
>
> I was very pleased to see that Ota & Fujii at Yokohama National University
> have finally observed excess heat several time runs in a row, with highest
> heat they have yet measured. Ota has struggled for six years to replicate
> the Patterson light water palladium-nickel results, and he is at last
> achieving notable success. This is the kind of heroic dedication and
> stick-to-itiveness cold fusion demands. There are not many researchers
> capable of it. McKubre was also favorably impressed by this. Last year
> after JCF-3 I expressed concerns about the rapid onset of the heat within
> three minutes after electrolysis begins. The experiment seems to have no
> significant incubation time, whereas Patterson and others have reported it
> takes at least 20 minutes to begin. I was worried that the rapid startup
> might indicate an instrument artifact, although the instruments are good
> and a dummy cell run in parallel never shows excess heat. McKubre set my
> mind at ease on this. He said a rapid startup is expected because the metal
> film is thin and Ota soaks the beads in warm electrolyte before
> electrolysis begins, which McKubre says is a good idea.
>
> . . . Beijing it is quite a place. It reminds me of Tokyo circa 1972.
> People like Bjorn Lomborg who pooh-pooh the population & pollution crises
> should be forced to live there for a year. I had never been in China
> before, and I know little about it, despite several courses in Chinese
> history and anthropology. They seem to have way too much history. It is a
> burden. Their problems may be summed up as a surfeit of extremities: too
> many people, too much history, extreme communism before and perhaps
> overdone capitalism now. And as a veteran traveler to the Orient I have
> long felt that a major problem with the Far East is that it is too far.
> That's my impression after 16 hours of air travel with the worst possible
> jet lag, a 12-hour difference.
>
> Despite the difficulty of totaling to China, there was pretty good turnout
> at the conference. About 130 participants and another 30 mainly from Russia
> who couldn't get visas, or couldn't make it for some other reason. There
> was a large contingent from Italy. Half of it was called back to Italy on
> Thursday by the Reigning Prince of Italian physics, Prof. Carlo Rubbia, who
> has recently commented in the newspapers that cold fusion is real and
> important. He wanted the latest information and apparently it could not
> wait until next week, so they rushed back to tell him.
>
> Peter Hagelstein was dragooned into chairing the next ICCF conference,
> ICCF-10. He was gratified to learn of the Lexus luxury automobile and the
> beach house that goes along with that job, until he discovered the Lexus is
> a matchbox toy and the beach is in Vladivostok. He needs all the help he
> can get, so rather foolishly, I have volunteered to assist him with the
> conference web page and such secretarial duties as I am capable of. When
> the abstracts are scrambled and the map shows the wrong hotel it will be my
> fault.
>
> Hagelstein and I think we should establish a more permanent ICCF
> organization and Web presence. We discussed some innovative and probably
> disastrous ways to organize a conference, such as posting all abstracts in
> advance and having all registered participants vote on which ones they
> would prefer to see in the oral sessions and which should be relegated to
> poster sessions. Traditionally such decisions are made by a secret
> committee in a smoke filled room, in a politically charged atmosphere. We
> thought a more democratic, overtly political, Internet based approach would
> be a breath of fresh air. The problem with all this is that it costs
> $50,000 to put on a conference, which is approximately $49,999 more than
> anyone in the field can scrape up at the moment. Because we have no money,
> we will have to rely on the Web to an unprecedented degree. Previous ICCF
> organizers have had little or no experience with computers. I do not mean
> they were unfamiliar with the Internet; I mean they use pen recorders
> instead of computers.
>
> Participants agreed that a two-year gap between conferences is too long,
> especially considering the actuarial tables, so the next meeting is
> tentatively scheduled for Autumn 2003, to be held in Boston or Washington,
> D.C. I recommended Gaithersburg, Maryland, a close-in suburb of Washington.
> Specifically, I would like to hold the conference across the street from
> the hot fusion lobby, the Fusion Power Associates. Peter thought that might
> be a little foolhardy. Given our funding situation we may end up holding it
> on the sidewalk in front of the Associates, in a sort of geriatric 1960s
> style Be-in or Happening. Perhaps they will let us plug in the overhead
> projector. If they are not good sports, and they call the police instead,
> we might adjourn and follow in General Lee's footsteps to the North. We
> could hold the conference on my property in Gettysburg. There is plenty of
> room in the barn, which now features an electrical outlet and is no longer
> on the verge of collapse. We have no running water or flush toilet, but
> there is plenty of room in the woods and fields to pitch tents. People in
> this business must be prepared to Make Sacrifices and Rough It.
>
> - Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun May 26 09:42:52 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29164;
	Sun, 26 May 2002 09:39:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 09:39:54 -0700
Message-ID: <003701c204d3$ec88e400$4b07da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <v01530501b91575fe16bd [12.110.74.28]>
Subject: Re: Boron Nitgride (BN) Buckyballs and CF
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 12:39:33 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fxk5l3.0.X77.Q_Gyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47162
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>some of the inner nested BN shells can shrink,
>bringing enormous pressures (several GPa) to bear.  

Anyone care to comment on how the inner shells may be coaxed to shrink?  
There seem to be a lot of useful things this could be employed for.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 27 07:48:20 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21116;
	Mon, 27 May 2002 07:45:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 07:45:09 -0700
Message-ID: <001601c20584$6e39d120$4803bf3f computer>
From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <fstenger suite224.net>, <jlsparber@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hear Here! GPS & Satellite Signals
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:41:12 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"IfBfz3.0.s95.rPayy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47163
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Sound is defined as "the energy/disturbance waves produced by atom/molecular stressing
in any elastic medium".

Experiments have shown that the inner ear Can Detect disturbances/sounds down to
1.0E-21 watts/square cm
and at frequencies well above (and below) those that can be heard through the outer
and middle ear,due to "jiggling" of the molecules in the cochlea fluids.

The Amplitude/Digital "Modulation" on the gigahz signals can cause the "jiggle",
especially since the military has increased the GPS power levels to "prevent jamming".
:-)

TSE - GPS frequencies <http://www.tbs-satellite.com/tse/online/prog_gps_freq.html>

GPS frequencies. Military: 1227.6 MHz Civilian: 1575.42 MHz Nuclear
burst detection: 1381.05 MHz Telemetry on 2227.5 MHz.
satellite information <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7743/sat_info.html>

2. Satellite TV frequency bands C - Band, 3.700 - 4.200 GHz. Ku - Band
- Low, 10.700 - 11.700 GHz. Ku - Band - High, 11.700 - 12.750 GHz. ...
R.BOOTH - one needs a plan, as to which frequencies will first be used. For example,
12 GHz is a commercial satellite TV frequency, close to a radio astronomy methanol
band. For this, inexpensive receivers are available, which could be converted. Many
European groups are replacing their receivers, and it should be possible to obtain
front ends from other institutes.

V.SLYSH - Lebedev Institute is building a series of receivers which might become
available upon an agreement. Receivers for OH (1666 MHz) are already available.

Buying stock in companies that sell metal roofing and aluminum ear plugs should be a
good investment.


Regards,    Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 27 09:53:33 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11056;
	Mon, 27 May 2002 09:49:49 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:49:49 -0700
Message-ID: <003d01c20595$d797a1e0$4803bf3f computer>
From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <fstenger suite224.net>, <jlsparber@earthlink.net>,
        <hheffner mtaonline.net>
Subject: Re: Hear Here! GPS & Satellite Signals
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:46:46 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"hlguF2.0.Zi2.jEcyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47164
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Some added info:

The loudest tolerable sound of 94 microwatts/cm^2 comes from an air pressure intensity
of 280 dynes/cm^2

Or, I = P^2/(2po*u)  P = pressure, dynes/cm^2, po = average density of air, grams/cm^3
and u = the velocity of sound in air, cm/sec.

 = 280^2/(2*0.00122*3.46E4)

= 940 ergs per second, per square centimeter = 94E-6 watts/cm^2.

Normal hearing thresholds are about 1.0E-16 watts/cm^2
( 0 db).

OTOH, about 1% of the population can hear sound levels as low as 1.0E-17 watts/cm^2
 minus 5 db).

For an EM signal  of 1.0E-16 watts/cm^2:

1.0E-16 = E^2* (K*eo/uo)^1/2  where K is the dielectric
constant of the cochlear fluid (~80) eo is the permittivity of space 8.85E-10
farad/cm, uo is the pearmeability of space 12.57E-5 Henry/cm, E is the field intensity
volts/cm.

Thus, E = [1.0E-16/(80*8.85E-10/12.57E-5)^1/2]^1/2

= 6.5E-8 volts/cm which is probably orders of magnitude below the signal levels of
satellites.

Thus the exercise is how much the modulated signals can jiggle the inner ear molecules
to set up the perception of sound in a fluid that already has molecules agitated by
the
0.025 ev thermal vibrations that the brain ignores in a quiet setting, or gets
"masked" when there is a lot of EM "traffic"..

Sound is defined as "the energy/disturbance waves produced by atom/molecular stressing
in any elastic medium".

Experiments have shown that the inner ear Can Detect disturbances/sounds down to
1.0E-21 watts/square cm
and at frequencies well above (and below) those that can be heard through the outer
and middle ear,due to "jiggling" of the molecules in the cochlear fluids.

The Amplitude/Digital "Modulation" on the gigahz signals can cause the "jiggle",
especially since the military has increased the GPS power levels to "prevent jamming".
:-)

TSE - GPS frequencies <http://www.tbs-satellite.com/tse/online/prog_gps_freq.html>

GPS frequencies. Military: 1227.6 MHz Civilian: 1575.42 MHz Nuclear
burst detection: 1381.05 MHz Telemetry on 2227.5 MHz.
satellite information <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7743/sat_info.html>

2. Satellite TV frequency bands C - Band, 3.700 - 4.200 GHz. Ku - Band
- Low, 10.700 - 11.700 GHz. Ku - Band - High, 11.700 - 12.750 GHz. ...
R.BOOTH - one needs a plan, as to which frequencies will first be used. For example,
12 GHz is a commercial satellite TV frequency, close to a radio astronomy methanol
band. For this, inexpensive receivers are available, which could be converted. Many
European groups are replacing their receivers, and it should be possible to obtain
front ends from other institutes.

V.SLYSH - Lebedev Institute is building a series of receivers which might become
available upon an agreement. Receivers for OH (1666 MHz) are already available.

Buying stock in companies that sell metal roofing and aluminum ear plugs should be a
good investment.


Regards,    Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon May 27 13:26:56 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09175;
	Mon, 27 May 2002 13:24:20 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:24:20 -0700
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 21:24:07 +0100
From: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Where is the energy coming from
Message-ID: <20020527202406.GB6998 genius.tao.org.uk>
Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser <joe tao.org.uk>,
	vortex-l eskimo.com
References: <a05100307b910c249f906 [63.233.196.116]> <v04210104b911109cc2ea@[192.168.123.2]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <v04210104b911109cc2ea [192.168.123.2]>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
Resent-Message-ID: <"-VAhp2.0.CF2.oNfyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47165
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


--H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 11:11:24PM -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote:
> >I have made what promises to be the biggest thing that I have ever found=
 for reversing the aging process.
>=20
> You put da Prill in da coconut and drinka bowl up...
>=20
> Boop deeeeeeee- areepa boppa zoopdee ...
>=20
> Damn, I hate that Napster's gone.  :(

www.audiogalaxy.com ;).

J.

--H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjzyleYACgkQXVIcjOaxUBai3QCg54bcG9VTdBhMSRQEKrOHfzHD
iQIAn0j12pzsJwFkUbuJ7kkJCjaz+X8C
=p4Zu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 00:49:08 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA18970;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 00:46:19 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:46:19 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530501b918e47ad811 [12.21.209.101]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 23:53:17 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Boron Nitgride (BN) Buckyballs and CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"j8otv1.0.Ke4.ANpyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47166
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:39 PM 5/26/2, Ryan Hopkins wrote:
>>some of the inner nested BN shells can shrink,
>>bringing enormous pressures (several GPa) to bear.
>
>Anyone care to comment on how the inner shells may be coaxed to shrink?
>There seem to be a lot of useful things this could be employed for.

I think the implication is that the shrinkage occurs at molecule formation
time and is a rersult of the multilayered geometry of some individual
molecules.  It is the inner layer or layers that is shrunk by the bond
pressure from the outer layer or layers.  However, that said, it is
possible to further "shrink" any BN shell or other lattice by cooling it.
If the shell were loaded with deuterium then this would be a form of
"cryofusion".   Cryofusion has reportedly been achieved by shock cooling
loaded palladium.  Unfortunately, if memory serves, the signature of the
resultant fusion is neutron formation. This indicates to me that cryofusion
may push the branching ratio in the opposite direction from other forms of
cold fusion.  Neutron free varieties of cold fusion of course appear to me
to be far more practical or desirable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 02:28:40 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA17207;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 02:25:39 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 02:25:39 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05100302b9189a99dc19 [209.23.136.45]>
In-Reply-To: <003701c204d3$ec88e400$4b07da42 usadatanet.net>
References: <v01530501b91575fe16bd [12.110.74.28]>
 <003701c204d3$ec88e400$4b07da42 usadatanet.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:25:44 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Boron Nitgride (BN) Buckyballs and CF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Resent-Message-ID: <"GsrS12.0.mC4.Iqqyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47167
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>  >some of the inner nested BN shells can shrink,
>>bringing enormous pressures (several GPa) to bear. 
>
>Anyone care to comment on how the inner shells may be coaxed to shrink? 
>There seem to be a lot of useful things this could be employed for.

There was a link on www.padrak.com that was from a group that wanted 
to do LENR's by using a laser on buckyballs with hetroatoms in them.

-- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 11:57:21 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03002;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 11:53:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:53:55 -0700
Message-ID: <003a01c20678$f7e64260$2d06da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <v01530501b918e47ad811 [12.21.209.101]>
Subject: Re: negentropy & CF was: boron nitride buckyballs and CF
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:53:31 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"K-Vqf1.0.kk.09zyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47169
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace, thanks for your response.  I wonder if the so-called 'cold current'
phenomena exhibited by Adams motors, if harnessable, could be used as the
catalyst for such a reaction.  The theory, in short, states that entropy is
an intimately time-based process which has a counterpart - the much maligned
(and much sought after) negative entropy.  In the intrest of not straying
too far off course, I'll simply say that much more info on it is available
at the site http://www.geocities.com/theadamsmotor/ .

If my thinking is correct (everyone here please add to or subtract from this
thought as you see fit), exposing deuterium to a negentropic field would
supercool it.  Apparently this alone shoudl be enoug hto create a reaction,
but I'm sure there are a LOT of Maxwell's Daemons to work out here.  Cold
fusion creates heavy helium, so if the deuterium could be made to fuse
quickly and sufficiently enough, we would create a kind of superfluid bottle
charged by its own energy radiation.  Helium loses nil energy in the
superfluid state, and it could be tapped as needed.  Wierd fusion between OU
device / fusion reactor / high-capacity battery. Does anyone have specs for
how heavy helium performs as a superfluid?  I hope I haven't wandered too
far off the mental path for the tastes of the rest of the patrons on this
list :)

Cheers,

Ryan H


> I think the implication is that the shrinkage occurs at molecule formation
> time and is a rersult of the multilayered geometry of some individual
> molecules.  It is the inner layer or layers that is shrunk by the bond
> pressure from the outer layer or layers.  However, that said, it is
> possible to further "shrink" any BN shell or other lattice by cooling it.
> If the shell were loaded with deuterium then this would be a form of
> "cryofusion".   Cryofusion has reportedly been achieved by shock cooling
> loaded palladium.  Unfortunately, if memory serves, the signature of the
> resultant fusion is neutron formation. This indicates to me that
cryofusion
> may push the branching ratio in the opposite direction from other forms of
> cold fusion.  Neutron free varieties of cold fusion of course appear to me
> to be far more practical or desirable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Horace Heffner
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 11:59:35 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00578;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 11:47:00 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:47:00 -0700
Message-ID: <3CF3D0B1.4000909 pbtta.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:47:13 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont pbtta.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hear Here! GPS & Satellite Signals
References: <003d01c20595$d797a1e0$4803bf3f computer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"k5CbI3.0.q8.a2zyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47168
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick Sparber wrote:

>
>Buying stock in companies that sell metal roofing and aluminum ear plugs should be a
>good investment.
>

I find my pointy aluminum hat with the copper braid earth ground 
perfectly adequate, thank you!

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 12:13:14 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12166;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 12:11:51 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 12:11:51 -0700
Message-ID: <005101c2067a$0d851f00$2d06da42 usadatanet.net>
From: "Ryan Hopkins" <thebishop usadatanet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <v01530501b918e47ad811 [12.21.209.101]> <003a01c20678$f7e64260$2d06da42@usadatanet.net>
Subject: Re: negentropy & CF was: boron nitride buckyballs and CF
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:01:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
Resent-Message-ID: <"uXUkS.0.0-2.tPzyy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47170
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

entropy is
> an intimately time-based process which has a counterpart - the much
maligned
> (and much sought after) negative entropy.

Minor correction...  the stipulation here is that negative entropy arises
from phase-conjugate current in a conductor, which arises at the very moment
of switch closure (making it, I suppose, quite hard to correctly tap.)

$0.02, anyone?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 14:55:55 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28719;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 14:51:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:51:58 -0700
X-Sent: 28 May 2002 21:51:22 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020528174718.031c31c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:51:22 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Two Arata papers on sonofusion
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"qLwPT1.0.f07.-l_yy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47171
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

ojps.aip.org/journal_cgi/dbt?KEY=APPLAB&Volume=80&Issue=13

Applied Physics Letters, 1 April 2002, Vol. 80 No. 13, "Intense 
sonoimplantation of atoms from gases into metals," Yoshiaki Arata and 
Yue-Chang Zhang, Cooperation Research Center for Science and Technology, 
Osaka University, 11-1 Mihogaoka, Ibaraki, Osaka 567-0047, Japan

(Received 6 August 2001; accepted 4 February 2002)

Abstract

It was found that various gaseous atoms can be easily implanted into metal 
powders under ultrasonic cavitation inside a vessel with water (H2O,D2O or 
a mixture thereof). Inert gases (3He, 4He, Ne, and Ar) and others (N2, air, 
H2, and D2) were strongly sonoimplanted into metals such as Ti, Fe, Ni, Cu, 
Zr, Pd, Ag, Ta, Pt, and Au, which were originally set in the vessel as 
foils, and were broken into ultrafine metal powders during intense 
ultrasonic processing. A large amount of implanted atoms was verified to 
exist in these powders from mass spectroscopic analyses.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Y. Arata, Y-C. Zhang, "nuclear fusion reacted inside metals by intense 
sonoimplantation effect," Proceedings of the Japan Academy, volume 78, Ser. 
B, No. 3 (2002).

Partial abstract: "Using intense ultrasonic cavitation effect, metals kept 
in heavy water were changed to nanometer-sized fine powder is and 
simultaneously condensed a large amount of deuterium for 1 ~ 2 days. Mass 
analyses of gases released from the revenant metal powders revealed 
existence of 3He and 4He . . . [E]xcess energy was recognized in only D2O 
working liquid . . ."

A&Z start with foils of Ti, Pd, Ag, Ta, Pt and Au, and break them down into 
nanometer-sized powders, simultaneously loading them with deuterium. Arata 
does not acknowledge the work of Stringham, which I find arrogant.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue May 28 17:15:08 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28709;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 17:10:54 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:10:54 -0700
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Message-ID: <27.28199c3c.2a257666 aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:10:14 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Two Arata papers on sonofusion
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_27.28199c3c.2a257666_boundary"
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10500
Resent-Message-ID: <"07-9f.0.Q07.Do1zy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47172
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


--part1_27.28199c3c.2a257666_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Constants of the Motion tend toward thouse of the Electromagnetic in a 
Bose Condensate that is Stimualted at a Dimensional Frequency of One 
megahertz meter.  For thermal energy the size is 50nm.   1 megahertz meter is 
my, Znidarsic's constants.

--part1_27.28199c3c.2a257666_boundary
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Disposition: inline

Return-Path: <vortex-l-request eskimo.com>
Received: from  rly-st11.mail.aol.com (rly-st11.mail.aol.com [172.20.114.200]) by air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v86.11) with ESMTP id MAILINYB34-0528192650; Tue, 28 May 2002 19:26:50 -0400
Received: from rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5])
	  by rly-st11.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0)
	  with ESMTP id TAA19645;
	  Tue, 28 May 2002 19:23:35 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v86.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYB54-0528192301; Tue, 28 May 2002 19:23:01 -0400
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28719;
	Tue, 28 May 2002 14:51:58 -0700
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:51:58 -0700
X-Sent: 28 May 2002 21:51:22 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020528174718.031c31c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:51:22 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Two Arata papers on sonofusion
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"qLwPT1.0.f07.-l_yy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47171
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com

ojps.aip.org/journal_cgi/dbt?KEY=APPLAB&Volume=80&Issue=13

Applied Physics Letters, 1 April 2002, Vol. 80 No. 13, "Intense 
sonoimplantation of atoms from gases into metals," Yoshiaki Arata and 
Yue-Chang Zhang, Cooperation Research Center for Science and Technology, 
Osaka University, 11-1 Mihogaoka, Ibaraki, Osaka 567-0047, Japan

(Received 6 August 2001; accepted 4 February 2002)

Abstract

It was found that various gaseous atoms can be easily implanted into metal 
powders under ultrasonic cavitation inside a vessel with water (H2O,D2O or 
a mixture thereof). Inert gases (3He, 4He, Ne, and Ar) and others (N2, air, 
H2, and D2) were strongly sonoimplanted into metals such as Ti, Fe, Ni, Cu, 
Zr, Pd, Ag, Ta, Pt, and Au, which were originally set in the vessel as 
foils, and were broken into ultrafine metal powders during intense 
ultrasonic processing. A large amount of implanted atoms was verified to 
exist in these powders from mass spectroscopic analyses.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Y. Arata, Y-C. Zhang, "nuclear fusion reacted inside metals by intense 
sonoimplantation effect," Proceedings of the Japan Academy, volume 78, Ser. 
B, No. 3 (2002).

Partial abstract: "Using intense ultrasonic cavitation effect, metals kept 
in heavy water were changed to nanometer-sized fine powder is and 
simultaneously condensed a large amount of deuterium for 1 ~ 2 days. Mass 
analyses of gases released from the revenant metal powders revealed 
existence of 3He and 4He . . . [E]xcess energy was recognized in only D2O 
working liquid . . ."

A&Z start with foils of Ti, Pd, Ag, Ta, Pt and Au, and break them down into 
nanometer-sized powders, simultaneously loading them with deuterium. Arata 
does not acknowledge the work of Stringham, which I find arrogant.

- Jed


--part1_27.28199c3c.2a257666_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 01:40:35 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03532;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 01:37:53 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:37:53 -0700
Message-ID: <000901c206ec$32d89b20$4a8f209a ggrf30j>
From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Off topic  (very) - Cow capitalism
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:38:19 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"1GwdB2.0.6t.XD9zy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47173
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Off topic but amusing

This email is doing the rounds in Jersey, U.K. a financial tax avoidance
centre

Nick Palmer
========================================================
Subject: Holy cow

Traditional capitalism: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your
herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell and retire on the income.

An American Corporation: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the
other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops
dead.

A French Corporation: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want
three cows.

A Japanese Corporation: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are
one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You
then create clever cow images called Cowkimon and market them World-wide.

A German Corporation: You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live
for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

A British Corporation: You have two cows: They are both mad.

An Italian Corporation: You have two cows, but you don't know where they
are. You break for lunch.

A Russian Corporation: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have
five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them
again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another
bottle of vodka.

A Swiss Corporation: You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you. You
charge others for storing them.

A Hindu Corporation: You have two cows. You worship them.

A Chinese Corporation: You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them.
You claim full employment, high bovine productivity, and arrest the newsman
who reported the numbers.

A Welsh Corporation: You have two cows. That one on the left is kinda cute.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 02:20:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA17955;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 02:18:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:18:15 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Off topic  (very) - Cow capitalism
In-Reply-To: <000901c206ec$32d89b20$4a8f209a ggrf30j>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0205290201450.27216-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"fX1aR2.0.PO4.Mp9zy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47174
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 29 May 2002, Nick Palmer wrote:

> Off topic but amusing
>
> This email is doing the rounds in Jersey, U.K. a financial tax avoidance
> centre



My favorite:

HONG KONG CAPITALISM -- You have two cows. You sell THREE of them to your
publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your
brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt / equity swap with
associated general offer so that you get all FOUR cows back, with a tax
deduction for keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are
transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company
secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the rights to all
seven cows' milk back to the listed company. The annual report says that
the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you
kill the two cows because the feng shui is bad.

My other favorite:

SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take
harmonica lessons.




SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government fines you for
keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment.

FRISBEETARIANISM: You have two cows. One of them flies up on the roof and
gets stuck. You hope the government provides cow ladders.



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 02:23:53 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA20856;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 02:23:15 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:23:15 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 02:23:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: bacterial weather control
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0205290219430.27216-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"I8C561.0.o55.3u9zy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47175
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A


http://www.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/05/27/bugs.weather/index.html

This sounds like James Lovelock's Gaia stuff.  If bacteria have their
finger on the albedo control for Earth, then the atmosphere has active
homeostasis and is not just a happy accident.

Weird thought: ancient bacteria learn to spit ions from cloud droplets to
electrostatically induce droplet-mergers and rainfall... then they go on
to
invent thunderstorms.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 03:44:19 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA15700;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 03:41:46 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 03:41:46 -0700
Message-ID: <001a01c206f4$c16c91e0$ed03bf3f computer>
From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <crquin@rogers.com>
Cc: <fstenger suite224.net>, <jlsparber@earthlink.net>, <puthoff@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Are you Telepathic and Don't Know It?
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 04:38:49 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Resent-Message-ID: <"OG4LI.0.Dr3.f1Bzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47176
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

The "normal" human ear can detect acoustic sounds (through the tympanic membrane and
middle ear) down to
1.0E-17 watts per square centimeter. The inner ear cochlea mechanism can perceive
sound levels (and quite possibly electromagnetic signal levels) down to 1.0E-21 watts
per square centimeter.

IOW, 1.0E-21 watts per square centimeter translates to an electromagnetic field
strength (E) volts per centimeter,of:

W= 1.0E-21 = E^2(K*eo/uo)^1/2     watts/cm^2

E = [1.0E-21/(K*eo/uo)^1/2]^1/2 = 2.05E-10 volts/cm

The energy density = K*eo*E^2  Joules per cubic centimeter (in this case ~ = 3.0E-27
Joule/cm^3.

>From this, reception of the microvolt per centimeter "brain waves" of another person
should be "heard" by one's  inner ear and transmitted to the brain for analysis.

Is this the "sixth sense" attributed to "Fido" and other pets?

OTOH, this faculty is probably lost in a "Boom Box" society.

Regards,    Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 06:55:00 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00659;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:06 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:06 -0700
Message-ID: <20020529135159.10038.qmail web11208.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:51:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic  (very) - Cow capitalism
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0205290201450.27216-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"flrl73.0.DA.5qDzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47177
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

--- William Beaty <billb eskimo.com> wrote:
> You have two cows. You sell THREE of them to your publicly
> listed company, using letters of credit opened by your
> brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt / equity swap

This is originally a petty-cote junction joke but later was
made popular by Hee-Haw.  Think it funny to read? Yall as got
to know it's really a hoot when read wiht a proper cultured
Oklahoma or Arkansas accent. :-)

> My other favorite:
>
> SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires
> you to take harmonica lessons.
>
 Yes...  Like a Picasso

> SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government
> fines you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an
> apartment.

 What I have to wonder is why tow cows?  In an apartment?

> FRISBEETARIANISM: You have two cows. One of them flies up on
> the roof and gets stuck. You hope the government provides cow
> ladders.

FRISBEETARIANISM ?  or DEMOCRACY (California style)  :-o

Bill you are a very twisted man...

Cool!


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 08:49:09 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26415;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 08:44:52 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:44:52 -0700
Subject: quadrupolar electromagnetic wave
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr
Reply-To: hamdix verisoft.com.tr
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:44:37 +0400
Message-ID: <GWVQED01.W65 venus1.ttnet.net.tr>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Mmwms.0.dS6.qTFzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47178
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi,

If you had interested on the recent paper "Superconductors as transducers and
antennas for gravitational and electromagnetic radiation", at the end of the
paper it is described a experiment setup with a figure:

"Figure 2: Schematic of a simple, Hertz-like experiment, in which gravitational
radiation at 12 GHz is emitted and received using two superconductors. The
"Microwave Source" generates quadrupolar electromagnetic radiation at 12 GHz
("EM wave"), which impinges on Superconductor A (a 1 inch diameter piece
of YBCO, which is placed inside a dielectric Dewar containing liquid nitrogen),
and is converted upon reflection into quadrupolar gravitational radiation ("GR
wave"). The GR wave, but not the EM wave, passes through the "Double
Faraday Cages," i.e., two doubly-nested normal-metal Faraday cages. In the
far field of Superconductor A, Superconductor B (also a 1 inch diameter piece
of YBCO inside a dielectric Dewar lled with liquid nitrogen) reconverts upon
re
ection the quadrupolar GR wave back into a quadrupolar EM wave at 12
GHz, which is then detected by the "Microwave Detector." The GR wave,
and hence the signal at the microwave detector, should disappear once either
superconductor is warmed up above its transition temperature (90 K), i.e., after
the liquid nitrogen boils away in either Dewar."

It is said on line 3.

"Microwave Source" generates quadrupolar electromagnetic radiation at 12 GHz

On caption of figure 1 it is also mentioned of "quadrupolar EM plane wave".


A quadrupolar antenna could be something like this arrangement:
    
    o-  
 o+    o+
    o-


But I did not found anywhere mentioning "quadrupolar electromagnetic waves".

Instead I found  "quadrupole EM resonators" which are used on mass spectrography and
"RFQ" which are used on linear particle accelearators.

Do you know how should be a quadrupolar electromagnetic wave and how to produce it?

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 14:49:46 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12920;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 14:44:38 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:44:38 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:44:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: bacterial weather control
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0205290219430.27216-100000 eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0205291432570.17120-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"p3vHK1.0.o93.6lKzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47179
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 29 May 2002, William Beaty wrote:

>   http://www.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/05/27/bugs.weather/index.html
>
> Weird thought: ancient bacteria learn to spit ions from cloud droplets to
> electrostatically induce droplet-mergers and rainfall... then they go on
> to invent thunderstorms.

Less weird: it is known that clouds get nucleated because the atmosphere
is full of nano-crystals of salt which are launched as tiny droplets
during the popping of small bubbles on the ocean surface.  Maybe this
process launches bacteria too.  The salt crystals wander around and are
occasionally rehydrated as they pass through a cloud and form a droplet.
They would sometimes rain out onto the ocean again.  In other words, if
the ocean surface is a niche invironment, that niche might extend to the
clouds via those floating NaCl nano-crystals.

And maybe that weird pre-rain odor comes from bacterial spores in the
clouds, not from fungal spores on the earth (the latter is the
conventional explanation for pre-rain smell.)    According to the above
articles, rain water is not nearly so pure as people assume.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 20:10:14 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31355;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 20:06:55 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:06:55 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:08:08 -0700
Subject: The Correas - Part 1 of 4
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B91B0FD8.2CC3%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA31297
Resent-Message-ID: <"YoAmp2.0.rf7.ETPzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47180
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

The Correas: An Appreciation of Their Science and Technology - PART 1 of 4
          
    by Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief, Infinite Energy
                    www.infinite-energy.com


INTRODUCTION

There has been much misinformation circulating recently on the Vortex
discussion group (vortex-l eskimo.com) about the work of my scientific
colleagues and friends, Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa. They, and the
companies or institutes they have founded - Labofex, Akronos, and ABRI
(Aurora Biophysical Research Institute), are now located in the Toronto,
Canada area.  Their work has been published in Infinite Energy, in very
limited part since 1996 (Refs. 1-11), but its most extensive and
comprehensive form can be found on:
   http://www.aetherometry.com.
Anyone reading this essay should try to acquaint themselves with this
material, both the non-fee public material and the extensive technical works
of Experimental Aetherometry, which are available there for downloading in
PDF format (12-34).  Since I have a significant hands-on understanding  of
the Correa's work, their character, and goals, I wish to present an antidote
to some of the rather poisonous misinformation - or disinformation - that
has appeared on Vortex.  But first some background.

My experience is foremost engineering, science journalism, and teaching, but
I consider my highest calling that of a Scientist ‹ and, more globally, a
teacher-Scientist via Infinite Energy magazine and hands-on investigation of
anomalous physics claims. So while people such as Robert Park of the
American Physical Society or Prof. Ronald M. Parker of the MIT Plasma Fusion
Center may call themselves "Scientists" (with a capital S) they are nothing
of the kind. People such as these and the VAST majority of so-called
"scientists" (small s) -- have NO real ability or desire to use Science to
challenge their possible pre-conceptions of the universe. They are
textbook-hugging Technicians of Science -- little scientists (small s),
capable in some instances (certainly not in Park's case!) only of
recognizing (or themselves adding) additional bricks to the fortress of
accepted knowledge. These bricks are of some value to be sure, for it cannot
be denied that quite often these are the physical observations reported in
the mainstream literature that form the tissue of basic science and serve as
jump-off points for re-examining basic assumptions and finding (or not
finding) flaws in the fundamentals. Of course, this gets more complicated by
the fact that whenever these bricks are not appropriately placed or the
wrong bricks are inserted, the entire edifice of science is put at risk.

I entered the field of new energy and new physics beginning with the cold
fusion announcement on March 23, 1989. In the spring of 1991, my book Fire
from Ice: Searching for the Truth Behind the Cold Fusion Furor (John Wiley
and Sons) was published. In it, I concluded that the evidence for cold
fusion was "overwhelmingly compelling"‹ the very first book to render such
an opinion.  It took me the better part of a year, from March 23, 1989 to
the First International Conference on Cold Fusion (in Salt Lake City, March
1990), to determine that the scientific evidence was STRONGLY trending in a
positive direction in favor of the reality of the nuclear products,
radiations, and the nuclear-scale excess heat. A year later the reality of
cold fusion -- generically, "low energy nuclear reactions" (LENR) -- had
been proved to my satisfaction.  For over a decade I have been certain that
nuclear-scale excess heat and actual nuclear products are real, in certain
systems and under certain conditions in which hydrogen isotopes are placed
in intimate contact with a variety of metallic and sometimes non-metallic
substrates.  I have been appalled and disgusted with how the scientific
establishment and even some so-called new energy researchers have ignored,
attacked, misrepresented, and generally marginalized this huge body of
evidence.

My horizons expanded further in 1993 when I was able to investigate with Jed
Rothwell the HydroSonic Pump, manufactured by HydroDynamics, Inc. of Rome,
GA. (I had originally met Jed thanks to a provocative quote of me in a cold
fusion story by Bill Broad in the New York Times in the spring of 1991 --
the origin of Jed's involvement in cold fusion.) It is my opinion that the
kilowatt-level excess power in the HydroSonic Pump is real, albeit not
nearly as rigorously and as widely tested as the body of LENR results.  It
may or may not be the case that the excess power of the HydroSonic Pump has
anything directly to do with LENR; only time will tell.

In January 1995, we launched Infinite Energy magazine. This was after an
ill-fated experience with the WGI publishing company, which allowed me to
help found, as Editor-in-Chief, the magazine called "Cold Fusion"; the title
was deliberately in quotes to denote the uncertain theoretical origin of the
excess heat and other nuclear phenomena. Indeed, theoretical models that
encompass ALL of the LENR nuclear and excess heat effects still are very
difficult to pose, though many models have been put forth to explain this or
that hypothetical LENR reaction.  Infinite Energy has also kept watch over
the parallel development by Dr. Randell Mills of so-called hydrino physics
and revised quantum mechanics, which in-part began with electrolytic
experiments announced in 1991 -- just after Fire from Ice came off the
press.(12)  (See Mills' work at www.blacklightpower.com)

Since 1995, Infinite Energy and its associated New Energy Research
Laboratory (NERL) has had the wider perspective of investigating other
devices (that are not presumptively in the LENR field), which are claimed to
produce excess power.  Many of these contemporary devices turn out, after
closer inspection and testing, to be non-functional -- incapable of
supporting the claims of the purveyors or inventors. Recently, as an
example, I personally investigated one such claim in New England, by a very
good and sincere scientist. I showed him within a few hours of testing at
his lab that his work was in error due to a serious input power
mis-measurment. In some rare cases of hands-on investigation, we have
encountered provable, outright fraud. In other cases we have proved
anomalous excess power or anomalous physics. Some of these, including a
particularly interesting purely electrical device of recent study, are under
Non-Disclosure Agreements.

Much more often we at NERL encounter incorrect measurements that were
imagined by the inventors to support excess power claims.  Two inventors
once came to NERL with a rotary cone-shaped device that demonstrably did not
produce excess power. (They had been misled by Brookhaven National
Laboratory scientists, who did not take measurements on-site, into thinking
they actually had something!) However, the inventors were so consumed by
their belief in the device that they could not believe that our tests had
proved them grossly wrong -- and they apparently continued to try to market
said non-functional device!   In still other cases, a tantalizing appearance
of excess power arises, and it may not be reproducible or stable within one
lab or in transfer to our lab ‹ for whatever reason.  It may even be an
error, such as some work we have labored at in the sonofusion area with a
modified device based on Roger Stringham's reactor, or in the Pope-Perkins
cavitation device. In some of these devices an unqualified "Not Real" is
difficult to pronounce, since it is always possible that uncontrolled
factors and parameters are not properly set to give a positive result during
the test. 

We also encounter cases of data that appear to be very solid -- having been
taken by impeccable and simple means by others of good repute, which
strongly support excess power claims or other unusual processes, e.g. The
"nuclear combustion" results published by Harry Taplin et al in Infinite
Energy (minute  percentage --5 ppm --lithium catalyst added to standard
hydrocarbon combustion).  The apparent excess power of CarboHydrogen � gas
by Wallman and Dammann is another favorable example. True enough, these
latter two apparent augmented or excess energy processes have not been very
widely reproduced -- in the laboratory sense.  But several truck fleets do
use the Taplin et al methodology and apparently profit from it in greater
mpg and cleaner exhaust.  Unlikely as it seems, there could be some mistakes
in these systems, but their evident remarkable pollution abatement
characteristics have merit in their own right.

So the upshot of this extended introduction is that over the past 13 years I
have learned much about what is or is not real in claims of scientific
anomalies -- especially in the energy field, and what is *possibly* real or
not.  I have my own personal evaluation system, which is not infallible, but
it is certainly infinitely superior to that of the Parks and Parkers of this
world. Above all, I am honest. If I make a mistake and find it out, it gets
published -- unlike the fraudsters and bureaucrats at MIT and DOE who passed
off literally fraudulent null experiments against cold fusion, and then
swept the whole matter under the rug. They are not even good "Technicians of
Science." 

THE CORREAS

At the Third International Symposium on New Energy held in Denver, CO in
April 1996, I first had the opportunity to meet Dr. Paulo Correa, who spoke
about his and his co-investigator Alexandra Correa's Pulsed Abnormal Glow
Discharge (PAGD) Reactor. This is an evacuated glass tube with aluminum
electrode plates which is set into auto-electronic discharge emission by
associated and patented circuitry, and it produces reported excess
electrical energy. Alexandra was not able to attend that meeting, but Dr.
Correa gave an excellent keynote lecture at that time about the PAGD (which,
incidentally, is still available on video from Infinite Energy).  I was
impressed with  Dr. Correa's scientific demeanor and explanations. He
copiously referenced the work of many others, but offered specific praise
for Dr. Harold Aspden's work, which I had earlier encountered.  Dr. Aspden
is on Infinite Energy's Scientific Advisory Board and is a long-time
scientific colleague of the Correas. (His web site is:
     http://www.energyscience.co.uk)
At the 1996 Denver meeting, Dr. Aspden spoke on "Vacuum Spin as a new Energy
Source" (also available on video).  Dr. Aspden has offered earlier
assessments of the Correa PAGD work -- see the recently posted 1996 Opinion:

      http://www.aetherometry.com/aspden_opinion.html

Infinite Energy began publishing the work of the Correas on the PAGD soon
after this Denver meeting and we also have continued to publish some of Dr.
Aspden's work.(35,36)

Readers should know that Paulo Correa is a Renaissance man, with a Ph.D in
Cellular and Molecular Biology (Hematology) from the University of Toronto
(1991); also from the same University an MSc in Biophysics (1987) and a BSc
in Physics, Chemistry and Biology (1984).  He has other degrees in Political
Science and Sociology (HBA, 1979, York University, Glendon College), in Law
(Bachelor), and piano and music composition.   He is married to a
Renaissance woman, Alexandra, who though without formal scientific training
to the extent of Paulo, is thoroughly expert in the scientific studies and
methodologies the two have pioneered together.  She holds a BA degree in
Psychology and Sociology from York University, Glendon College (1979).  She
is also an expert scientific glassblower and a brilliant visual artist (one
look at the computer art on www.aetherometry.com is convincing, but her
paintings in their home are joyous also). She is an experienced
administrator and a manager of investment portfolios. As I said, the Correa
work has been entirely self-financed since the early 1980s.  The PAGD work
and technology originated from studies of low voltage X-ray production in
the mid-1980s, but their joint interest in the work of Reich and Tesla  was
of even earlier vintage. In this effort, in particular recent publications
on the web, the Correas work with Dr. Malgosia Askanas, a mathematician,
logician, computer programmer and website developer as well as a renowned
puppeteer, who supports their physics analysis and software effort.

Those who would like a very good overview of how the Correas' inventive
talents and interests evolved over the years should read a very informative
interview with the Correas, "Inventions That Did Not Change the World
Because the World As We Know It Would Die of Joy," May 18, 2001, conducted
for Akronos publishing by a colleague and friend, the architect Luís Balula
who is also professor of Urbanism at the University of Lisbon.

     http://www.aetherometry,com/abri_int.html
 
This sums up many issues for them - scientific, technical, philosophical,
and business, but it is NO substitute for reading the technical monographs
and other information on the web site.

Those who would like to know about the Correas' recent work on a host of
other aetherometric inventions (beyond the Stirling engine-HYBORAC device),
should read the testimonial letters posted by me, Uri Soudak, and Prof.
Arthur Axelrad of the University of Toronto at:

http://www.aetherometry/letters.html

The letters by me in 2001 and 2002 on observations of PAGD and other
devices, are detailed and self-explanatory.  Presently, Mr. Soudak and I
are collaborating in what we hope will be an independent offshoot of the
Correa work. The Correas have agreed to assign four rather astonishing
inventions to a new corporate entity to be based in the U.S., provided
acceptable investment conditions can be met.  One of the inventions, the
Stirling Engine-Hyborac has been discussed by the Correas in Infinite Energy
(10,11).


JED ROTHWELL's SLANDEROUS ATTACK

My associate Jed Rothwell has never claimed to be a diplomat. He has in fact
reveled in his reputation for being brutally frank in criticizing those
whose new energy work he is assessing negatively -- whether from a technical
performance or business perspective. We have had some arguments about this
brashness and occasionally insulting behavior, especially on those occasions
where Jed has been found not to be well-informed about the facts. And, Jed
thinks that because some new energy experiment observed in private has not
been replicated elsewhere it might as well not be discussed or heard about
-- in particular, when it comes to non-CF excess energy reports.  I totally
disagree. When scientists, such as the Correas, begin to show their
experiments to others in private demonstrations, the reports of these
demonstrations have great significance.  Others may not wish to believe
them, and that is fair enough.  But that does not mean that the observations
by competent observers and measurers have no significance, as Jed maintains.
He has set up a completely irrational standard.  The history of science is
filled with small groups of people observing first-hand remarkable phenomena
(such as meteorite falls), reporting them, and then working to enlighten
others by publication and other means.  The Correas have done this in
spades: A. By allowing others to test their PAGD device and demonstrating
Aetherometry inventions to others, B. By publishing basic experiments and
theoretical foundations of their aether models, and C. By building an
extensive patent portfolio.  If, after hearing of these reports no groups
take sufficient interest in, say, building their own PAGD reactors, that is
too bad, but it is the way the world works right now. Aspden for one is
quite clear that the PAGD patents give far more information than is
ordinarily given in patents, and this would lead others to be able to
replicate the PAGD if they chose to. So, since the mid 1990s there has been
publicly available information to reproduce PAGD physics, should anyone wish
to do so.  

I wish to openly investigate new scientific  measurements with a more global
impact on technology, while it is Jed's almost exclusive interest to conduct
business in the cold fusion field. I certainly share his interest in helping
to launch profitable businesses in cold fusion and more broadly the new
energy field, but it is not my sole interest.  I am very interested in
learning as much about the truth of the workings of this universe as I can
-- its physics and life processes -- which I believe the scientific
establishment continues to obscure in gross fashion.  Cold fusion/LENR is
only one example of how wrong and corrupt the scientific establishment has
become. Jed seems to think most textbook physics and biology is as solid as
a rock -- and going in the right direction. I disagree.

Jed has made it a point, at least within the cold fusion field, to insist
that people  --  especially "skeptics" -- READ THE LITERATURE describing
experiments, before they make judgments against cold fusion, or anything
else.  Therefore, I was very disturbed to read a recent posting of his on
Vortex (May 1, 2002, 9:37 a.m., "Re: MEG measurement errors?") in which he
blurted out a highly offensive response to my remark that he had "burned his
bridges" with the Correas:

***
EM: . . . and you have unfortunately and carelessly burned your
bridges with them (the Correas).

JR: It was not careless. It was a calculated act, the culmination of many
years of watching them in disgust. I stand by it. There are three
possibilities:

1. They are liars and they have faked their results.
2. They are insane.
3. They are morally depraved monsters who withhold vitally important
technology.
***

I find it astonishing and reprehensible that Jed did not include a 4th
logical possibility:

"4. They are sincere scientists who might have made a mistake or series of
mistakes such that all or part of their work could be in error."

That omission shows how Jed lets his passions against two particular new
energy researchers get out of hand. Presumably Jed's supposition "#3" means
that the Correas would have what they say they have, and that what *I* have
stated I observed in the Correa lab was real.  But in that case, Jed
suggests that since their business plans and disclosures ‹ what little he
knows of them (!) - are not to his liking, because  they "withhold vitally
important technology," the Correas are "morally depraved monsters."  Those
are very strong words, loaded with bile.

It is the same obsession to hate the Correas that prevented Jed from
considering still a 5th obvious possibility - that he may well be wrong in
all of the previous possibilities he enunciated, and the Correas may well be
right about their scientific findings and technologies without being
"morally depraved monsters."

Obviously, suppositions, #1 and #2, are repugnant to me and demonstrably in
error. Either supposition would suggest that I, Dr. Aspden, Professor
Axelrad, and Uri Soudak (former CTO of Israel Aircraft Industries) lack the
most basic ability to discriminate from gross fraud and "insanity" the
personalities, experiments, and research of the Correas when exposed to
these over a long period of time.  Jed says he has "watched them for years
in disgust."  Translation: He has "watched them for years" not doing what
HE, with his limited understanding, insists that they should do -- and if
they don't do it, they are "morally depraved monsters." That is a term I
have not heard Jed apply even to the hot fusioneers at MIT.

I am appalled that Jed as an editor at I.E. would, without qualification,
undercut my seasoned judgment in my prolonged investigation and publication
of the Correas' work.  Toward what end he thinks the Correas would even
attempt to "fake their results" escapes me, especially since he knows -- or
should know -- that the Correas are entirely self-financed, and that they
have clearly stated to all potential funding sources that iron-clad testing
by the potential investor in the PAGD, aether devices, or any of their other
technologies would be freely offered to serious parties.  Believe me, if
anyone had been financially screwed by the Correas, I would be among the
first to hear about it.  I have heard such complaints about several
well-known purveyors of alleged free-energy devices, e.g. the late Stanley
Meyer. As far as I am concerned, the Correas have among the highest
interpersonal ethical standards of any people I have ever met. Finally, it
should be obvious to even a relatively casual reader of their papers that
they have assembled a huge body of data and well-integrated assessment on
the theoretical and experimental levels. I should know, because I have read
and understood all they have published in IE, plus more. I am still learning
from these prodigious publications on www.aetherometry.com, which in
single-sided form are a bound stack about 6-inches thick (through Ref. 34).
How preposterous to imagine that such a mountain of well-integrated work
should be aimed at a fraudulent scheme!  The work could be all wrong -- it
is not -- but it is not fraud. There are far easier ways to commit fraud.
Furthermore, I have made my own personal measurements of the Reich-Einstein
Experiment thermal anomaly (38).

Now back to the outrageous point about being "morally depraved monsters" --
i.e. if the Correa technologies are valid.  Our exchange later goes on:

EM: Again, there are some people, such as the Correas, who are far more
interested in science than in commercialization and "changing the world."
They have their own standards and agenda. They don't feel they owe
anything to "humanity."

JR: But they do. Everyone does. People who do not contribute to society have
no right to eat. Society -- meaning farmers, shopkeepers, garbage
collectors, doctors and the rest of us -- keeps the Correas alive. If they
are not interested in commercialization, or they do not care for money, they
should give away the technology. Countless scientists have done that in the
past, and earned their keep.

First of all, the Correas have already contributed MASSIVELY to society with
their research, their publications, and patents.  They have given that much,
and that is far more than say Michelson-Morley have "given."  It is
infinitely more than the hot fusioneers -- the takers -- have given.  The
Correas have given profusely of experimental results that I believe to be
absolutely crucial to revising the morass of modern physics. If "society" is
so depraved and stupid as not to acknowledge these experiments (as it was
and still is with Wilhelm Reich) or even to be interested in them, does that
say more about society or about the Correas?  I think it says more about
society -- the same "society" that for 13 years has organized itself toward
the objective of killing off and ignoring cold fusion/LENR, no matter what
evidence or entreaties have been given to it. This is not the first time
that society has failed to accept or at least properly investigate matters
of overarching importance, as Jed well knows.   I think he is suggesting
that the Correas might be "morally depraved monsters" because their approach
and terms for offering their inventions to society do not meet with his
approval.  This is preposterous. It is fair enough to criticize or try to
change business strategy, requests for funding, and fears about how society
would react to the introduction of this  or that invention.  I have had such
intense discussions with the Correas myself. But it goes beyond the pale to
say that people might be "morally depraved monsters" when they are NOT, in
fact, withholding but are REVEALING astonishing experiments (published in
part in IE and much more extensively in the aetherometry monographs (13-34).
These should be of the highest priority for society to investigate.

More of our exchange of May 1:

JR: This situation would be a moral outrage if the Correas claims were true,
but I do not think they are, so it is only a farce.

EM: Also you should acknowledge that you do not have enough scientific
understanding to evaluate their work . . .

JR: Anyone with a high school level knowledge of physics can evaluate their
work. They claim their device produces excess energy. They claim they have
kept battery packs running indefinitely. I can understand that easily! The
details that supposedly make it work are over my head, but they are
irrelevant.

The details are NOT irrelevant.  We are not just talking about the PAGD,
which has been extensively discussed in IE. We are talking about basic
experiments that compel reconsideration of the aether -- upon which the PAGD
surely operates. If Jed had put any effort at all into downloading and
examining the Correa monographs, he would have known otherwise. Instead he
pontificates on Vortex, shoots from the hip, and suggest that the Correas'
claims are a "farce."  The farce is Jed's behavior in this matter.

This is Jed's attitude, concisely summarized from his May 1 posting:

"I do not want to be associated with people in any of these categories. The
Correas' behavior over the last decade convinces me that even if they have
something, they will never reveal it or allow others access to it, so they
might as well have nothing. They are tantamount to a fraud. Like Moray and
so many others, they are determined to take this technology to the grave
with them. They will succeed in that, and nothing else."

This is abhorrent and I completely reject the dangerous polemic of
dismissing historical research on devices that have been documented,
observed and testified to by many, and later carefully considered and
experimented with by excellent scientists such as the late Dr. Paul M. Brown
(39). To write, "They (the Correas) are tantamount to a fraud," is
positively revolting and without foundation.

More:

EM: They (the Correas) have resurrected the line of work that Tesla and
Reich began.

JR: I do not believe Tesla or Reich either.

This reminds me of Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg's assertion in the New
York Review of Books a few years ago that he did not "believe" in cold
fusion even though, as he jokingly remarked,  there was more reason to
"believe" it than stories from religious works.   Jed's ludicrous assessment
of Reich and Tesla has as much value as Weinberg's assessment of cold
fusion, namely, zero value.

Another observation from this exchange:

Jed wrote:

"These articles are not couched in normal scientific terminology. The
scientists I have spoken with cannot make head or tail of them. Perhaps the
articles are correct, but there is no way the rest of us can judge them, or
learn from them. It would be a good idea for the Correas to try to express
these concepts in more conventional terms. New scientific breakthroughs
have often been expressed in older terms, even when the breakthroughs made
the older terms obsolete. See, for example, Franklin's descriptions of
electricity, or Dyson's restatement of Feynman's laws."

I do not know the identities of the scientists with whom Jed spoke about
this, who allegedly "cannot make head or tail of them," but I can safely say
that they, like Jed, evidently did not put much (or any) effort into
studying  the monographs. I have not taken a poll of other readers, and I
could not care less about polls to begin with, but I can assure you that the
new terminology that has been introduced by the Correas is very well defined
and the arguments are clear -- not always simple, but clear.  Scientific
arguments that utterly dismantle a prevailing physics paradigm cannot be
simple, but again: Taken step-by-step they are clear. Only laziness or
stubborn disbelief would prevent a good scientist from digging deeply into
these works.  There is much repetition in the abstracts and introductions to
each monograph to properly link it with earlier and succeeding monographs.
The monographs generally have two components: A. Experiments (when the
monograph concerns experiments directly, as most do) and B. Theoretical
arguments that motivate and link the experiments. The monographs are not
always easy sailing, only because we are dealing here with concepts of
aether structure and activity that is very alien to the fictions and
omissions that 20th Century physics has given us -- such as Einsteinian
relativity, the Big Bang, the notion that all energy is electromagnetic,
that all potentials are mechanical, etc.  I dare say that relativity itself
(SRT and GRT) is in some sense more difficult to understand, especially
since these are paradoxical and wrong, as numerous critics who have nothing
to do with the Correas have found.

To say, "These articles are not couched in normal scientific terminology,"
is not a useful or appropriate observation. It is misleading. Jed states,
"Perhaps the articles are correct, but there is no way the rest of us can
judge them, or learn from them."  That is not true, and certainly not in my
case, even though I cannot claim to have mastered the more difficult modules
-- yet. But I am proceeding in that direction as I understand the
theoretical models and experiments more. I have formed a very strong
impression that this material may well be essential for a full understanding
of LENR -- how could it be otherwise for such pervasive energy and charge
phenomena?  Dr. Correa himself has told me that they have conducted
experiments that successfully increased up to 30% the intensity of the
radiation emitted by defined radionuclides, as per aetherometric
predictions. 

I would agree that one cannot learn from the monographs if one does not read
them. Or if one attempts to read them, one will fail to understand anything
IF one resists the use of required new terms -- e.g. "ambipolar massfree
charge," and "latent heat" -- to describe and characterize the functioning
of the aether.  New terminology is part and parcel of scientific revolutions
and is, in part, why such revolutions are difficult. New terminology
relating to previously not accepted concepts must be introduced. In the
Correas' monographs, it is adequately referenced to the old views.
Aetherometry has much new terminology, because so much must be revised.
When one reads these articles, one does not necessarily agree with them a
priori, of course. As in reading any other frontier research, one must
"temporarily suspend disbelief" so that the integrated new concepts can be
assessed with respect to the described experiments in proper relation to
each other.

Jed continued to post his harangues, taking cheap shots at the Correas at
every opportunity, e.g. this from May 3:

"...All that has been published [about free energy devices] are
nonsensical reports written in double-talk that evades the obvious issues,
such as self sustaining performance, plus a bunch of crazy theories written
in terminology that makes no sense to trained scientists -- like the Correa
stuff. At least Mills uses terms the most people understand, and he talks
about particles that everyone agrees do exist. If cold fusion had no better
evidence than this, I would not believe a word of it."

He implies that to discuss new physics properly one should "talk about
particles that everyone agrees do exist."  That's absurd for several
reasons: A. Mills very definitely talks about entities ("orbitspheres"  and
subatomic disks of charge), which conventional physics does not acknowledge
at all -- further what is wrong with postulating new entities (it's done all
the time in mainstream physics)? and B. By saying that the Correa "stuff" is
"crazy theories written in terminology that makes no sense to trained
scientists," he implies that he can understand that these theories are
"crazy" just by sampling some opinions from "trained scientists" who think
that the Correa terminology "makes no sense."  This is appalling and
anti-scientific ignorance, period.

The curious thing about all this is that neither latent heat nor ambipolar
energy are necessarily new notions.  Latent heat is a physical reality
acknowledged openly by meteorologists, chemists and biochemists in basic
textbooks!  According to the Correas, Plyutto et al first suggested the term
ambipolar (back in the 60's) to describe the dual polarity ion mechanism
responsible for the anomalous cathode reaction forces in vacuum arcs.  When
Aspden invokes the existence of quons that have mass but escape the
constraints of Relativity he is referring to the same energetic reality
which the Correas designate as massfree charge.  If the charge were
monopolar, like leptonic and baryonic charges are, and as are the pairs of
virtual muons in Aspden's theory, then there would have been no need for any
other term than monopolar.  But what they claim they have discovered is that
this radiated charge is not just noninertial or massfree, but also ambipolar
or phenomenologically neutral.  Is that so hard to comprehend?


The "RF" RED HERRING

Recently there has been a tempest on Vortex by some who have evidently not
read Monograph AS2-05 (Ref. 18) and other supporting monographs.  There has
been a suggestion that "RF" from local sources might explain the Stirling
engine/Hyborac performance in References 10 and 11.  The outdoor experiments
in AS2-05 prove that heat developed in an ORAC originates in significant
part from within the inner Faraday cage, which then drives the Stirling
engine with sensible heat. I forwarded some of the RF tempest to the
Correas, and this was their response regarding TV and radio towers, etc.:


"Yes, one could do it with a maser, somehow hidden from sight in the middle
of a large yard and targeting the box.  But why bother?  Isn't nature enough
and that which WE are studying and hoping to use?  As you saw and the videos
demonstrate [Videos that I have viewed - EFM], the HYBORAC was placed in the
middle of the yard, in the same approximate location for days and nights.
There are no radio towers around, and the nearest TV and microwave
communications tower was built three years ago (before the AS2-05
experiments) and stands ca 5/6 km away.  There were no masers or hidden
sources of radiation.  Nor were there any when Reich discovered the thermal
anomaly in Faraday cages and ORACs.  From our latest work and calculations,
the Stirling Motor was observed to perform work in the range of 20 to 500 mW
(it beats many a CF cell's claims).  Putting the efficiency at near 8%
(see our last Stirling report on nighttime operation) and the delta-T at 80%
of a To-T value of 30°C, one easily realizes that the sensible heat evolved
inside the boxes cannot account for the work of the Stirling motor.
Evidently, its action must tap the latent heat of the box, likely acting
upon the top of the box as a molecular pump that promotes conversion of
latent into sensible heats.  In other words, sensible heat alone cannot
account for the Stirling action."

"But if one intelligently tried a theoretical model where it did, then one
would not need to take recourse to radio towers or a fraudulent emission of
RF (or microwave) - it would suffice indeed to consider nature herself:
there is release of heat from the ground and the atmosphere (the natural
conversion of ozone back into oxygen; the loss of heat from settling water
vapor, etc) ; and last, but not least, since it deploys in the 50 to 200
plus GHz region, there is the so-called synchrotron emission of the
elements.  But then, all of these processes are driven by massfree ambipolar
radiation and involve the conversion of said radiation into latent and
sensible heats, and the conversion of latent into sensible heat.  And, as we
have amply shown, the major beacon of radiation in all this is the sun, and
what it emits is ambipolar electric longitudinal massfree radiation, not
transverse electromagnetic radiation!"

"The call for proximity to an RF tower or for some fraudulent explanation in
an experiment (the Stirling HYBORAC) that is this simple for anyone to set
up is not a mere matter of admitted ignorance in 'RF matters' (yes, the
ignorance is there, vain and convinced); it is an intentional and reckless
discrediting of our work with complete disregard for the simple and obvious
facts, as well as the consequences of what is being said and to whom. Anyone
can see the diurnal pattern of the temperature difference we reported
outdoors and drive a Stirling Motor the way we described it in our papers.
A 7-year old can do it. And with a bit of reading and understanding, anyone
will arrive at the same conclusions from the experiment.  Reich did and we
have: the sun, the atmosphere and the earth are all sources and transducers
of ambipolar electric energy and storage houses of latent heat.  The
Stirling moves with sensible heat, not latent heat or electric energy.  If
there is an excess of heat inside HYBORAC or ORAC boxes, this heat did not
get there as sensible heat or as electromagnetic radiation.  It got there
either as electric ambipolar radiation or as non-electric energy absconded
and radiated by molecular substrates (ie latent heat), or as both, as it
turns out.  And once there, the simple rules of transformation of these two
types of Aether energy into local blackbody photons (in ANY frequency range,
whether RF, microwave, IR, visible, etc) go into play."

"It is not very complicated.  There is no such hybrid as RF because the
frequencies being measured are those of the local photons (remember the Fc
function of induction coils in papers AS2-13 to 16?) and not of the
ambipolar radiation responsible for their local production and for the
nonlocal transmission of the photon-stimulus.  Moreover, in the useless
lingo of electromagnetic engineers, the term RF does NOT designate, for
instance, microwave radiation.  Yet, for one to explain the thermal anomaly
inside ORACs, say, within accepted theory, a difference of 3°C, on the basis
of electromagnetic radiation, one would have to be adding to the sub-IR
microwave radiation in the environment a substantial electromagnetic
radiation greater by 4 GHz than the, say, temperature baseline of 0 to 20°C
(in the thousands of GHz range); note that Aetherometry argues instead that
for a 3°C difference the step-up radiation should have a frequency of 62.5
GHz, (near the oxygen synchrotron line).  Because of the spherical
propagation of the photon-producing ambipolar wave, the source would have to
be in very close proximity to the HYBORAC in order for sensible heat photons
to produce in a molar-statistical fashion such a temperature effect, let
alone differences of 30°C.  Then, you may as well bake the whole arrangement
inside a microwave oven at 3Ghz with a thousand watt dissipation..."

***END of Part 1*** 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 20:17:03 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01830;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 20:15:44 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:15:44 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:17:49 -0700
Subject: The Correas - Part 2 of 4
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B91B121D.2CC5%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"9IIco3.0.VS.WbPzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47181
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

***Part 2 of 4***

AETHEROMETRY: A Brief Overview

What is Aetherometry and how to begin to understand it? It comprises the
study and measurement of the aether -- not the static, electromagnetic
"luminiferous aether" of the 19th Century, but a dynamic non-electromagnetic
aether that is amenable to measurement through the deflection of
electroscope leaves, mercury thermometers, Geiger-Muller tubes,
oscilloscopes, Tesla coils, Faraday cages, and other commonly available
instruments and circuit elements.  Of course, anyone who is a close-minded
believer in Einsteinian relativity -- the Special or General theories --
would find little or no reason to investigate Aetherometry -- any more than
someone absolutely convinced of the impossibility of LENR would find a
reason to look into the evidence for LENR.

The Experimental Aetherometry volumes are broken down into down-loadable
monographs, numbering a total of 21 monographs so far released, AS2-01
through AS2-17c (Refs. 13-34). These are grounded in the experimental
program of the Correas to understand the physically measurable and
observable effects of the aether -- electrical, thermal, light, biological,
etc.  So, if one wishes to examine these modules from a purely experimental
point of view, one can do just that.  The Correas have chosen to integrate
and motivate these published experiments by referencing theoretical
arguments from their Aetherometric Theory of Synchronicity (AToS), which has
been formulated in seven volumes that they later anticipate publishing.
(These are enumerated in the catalog posted on their web site.)  These
theoretical discussions are, on many occasions, the more difficult aspect of
the monographs.  But remember, the experiments can stand alone - they do NOT
need to be motivated by theory, but the AToS Theory evolved naturally from
them. The experiments are fundamentally simple in conception. If some rare
establishment physicist wants to try to "explain the effects away" or
explain  them in terms of conventional physics, so be it and -- good luck on
a long journey! (As with LENR, such physicists would ordinarily not even
look at the data, i.e. "look through the telescope.")

Another feature of the monographs are the extraordinary references to
historical scientific material, much of which has been conveniently
forgotten by the mainstream. How many of you, for example, know that the
"photoelectric effect" -- for which Einstein was granted a Nobel prize --
was originally known as the Hallwacks effect -- dating back to 1887?   Guess
what! The so-called "photoelectric effect" does NOT operate as the
mainstream suggests it does, and the Correas have proved that point with an
electroscope, the instrument with which the effect was first investigated.
(Perhaps, in fairness to truth, the Correas will eventually be rewarded with
a Nobel prize and Einstein's will be posthumously withdrawn!  Hah!).  There
is also, of necessity, copious reference to the experimental work of Wilhelm
Reich, and to Reich's theories.  Reich (1897-1957) was evidently a brilliant
scientist and medical doctor, quite the opposite of the false caricature
presented by the criminals at CSICOP, Time Magazine, and in the FDA of the
1950s. (Read my editorial in Issue No.37 of Infinite Energy.) The Correas
take Reich's observations as a starting point, and perform their meticulous
detective work to reveal the properties of the aether.

But the Correas do not give Reich a free pass. Far from it. They point out
precisely how the extraordinary pioneer Reich went wrong in some of his
conclusions.  The monographs thus unfold like a detective story -- almost
literally.  The final chapters of that story, which we are all eager to see
(the final monographs called out in the catalog and not yet posted, AS2-18
through AS2-24), are the unraveling of the orgone motor mystery, which has
resulted in Aether-driven motors at the Correa laboratory. These have no
electrical power source input save the Aether, as my on-site investigation
determined. (Reich was apparently never able to make such a motor, but the
Correas have done so -- again, read the Letters of Support.)  If an asteroid
strike wiped out Toronto tomorrow, however, I am confident that sufficiently
motivated scientists could, albeit with difficulty, make their way again to
such Aether Motors, given the foundations laid out in AS2-01 through
AS2-17c.

The Correas  declare at the very beginning of their web site: "The material
made available by AKRONOS Publishing at this site is not for everybody. It
is written for those who have a minimum of scientific, technical and
philosophical experience, and who can and do think and discern for
themselves."  Indeed, there is much philosophical discussion blended into
these monograpahs, but it is not oppressive and intruding. It is separate
enough so that it can be ignored, if one wishes.  I personally found the
philosohpical  remarks stimulating, making me want to learn more about the
lives and thinking of the figures who are referenced.  I admit woeful
ignorance of these old works, but if the findings of the Correas have
precursors in such thought, that is of great interest.

The Correas provide this commitment: "AKRONOS Publishing intends to continue
publication of the works of the Correas though Volume 4 of Experimental
Aetherometry, and the full collection of The Aetherometric Theory of
Synchronicity - as well as their work at Labofex [the PAGD work]. This is a
long-term commitment to publish the fruits of a few lifetimes of research
into physics, culture, the nature of Life and the Cosmos." They suggest in
earnest with a playful spirit, "These pages are meant to be approached as if
they were a green field of grass, replete with things such as poppies,
butterflies, dragonflies, and buttercups."

To get an overview of the breadth of this work, one should simply read the
abstracts (no down-loading fees required), which are provocative in the
claims that are made. It is of course essential to READ the monographs to
decide whether the experimental case for the claims has been made. After
scanning the abstracts, it is a good idea to read the introductions and then
the "Discussion" and/or "Conclusion" material at the end of each monograph.
Later one can dig into the central body of writing, which in most monographs
is copiously illustrated with graphical material and depictions of
experiments. Alexandra's colored computer artwork for the title page of each
monograph establishes the theme for that segment.

Some highlights of what the Correas claim to have found, taken, in their own
words, from the website interview earlier referenced:

        The Claimed Discoveries of the Correas Enumerated:

Electron Structure/Orgone Motor
_______________________________
* AC: "... we also cracked the structure of the electron and rediscovered
the functioning principle of Reich's Orgone Motor. Then we improved upon
it."

Superimposition of Aether Energy Streams
________________________________________
* PC: "The discovery of the principle [of the Orgone motor] at the bench
took place in mid-1998. By the spring of 1999 we had developed our improved
version. Since then we have steadily increased its performance. We have
succeeded in driving it from a superimposition of the aether energy streams
from the ORAC, with the earth, a body of water, living bodies, atmospheric
antennas, vacuum cavities, and so on, employing or not vacuum tubes for this
purpose."

Relation Between Heat and Electricity/ Massfree vs. Massbound Charge
____________________________________________________________________
 * PC: "... one of the critical developments in Aetherometry - a new
understanding of the relation between heat and electricity, and in
particular between what is called "latent heat" and electricity. But by then
we had already cracked the structure of the electron and the functions that
associate its mass-energy with any of a variety of physically distinct
kinetic energies. Effectively this leap permitted us to understand the
simplicity and reality of massless charge, as opposed to electrons or any
other form of massbound charge, whether leptonic or hadronic."

Biological Energy Fields
________________________
* PC: "...Yet, as Reich pointed out much later, how can we reconcile the
tens of thousands of electrostatic volts which an insulated human body can
develop by contact or loss of contact with the ground, with the
millivoltages detected at the tissue interfaces or over erogenous zones? But
if this problem itself was difficult enough, there are still two other
angles to this. Indeed, the electrostatic potentials may not be what is
indicative of a specifically biological energy, a bioelectricity. They may
well be the result of capacitative functions of charge resulting from the
interaction of the body with the ground, the earth, just as the millivolt
potentials are established at fluid junctions by limited ion fluxes... as we
see it, the primary biological energy fields are neither electrostatic nor
electromagnetic, even if there is in fact a derived electromagnetic field."

Massfree Electric Energy / The Nature of "Orgone" Energy
________________________________________________________
* AC - "...The heat or thermal photons emanating from the body are a clue to
the nature of the underlying massfree electric energy that is both drawn
into the body and discharged by it... The electromagnetic field or aura of
the body, we were saying, is the result of a more fundamental massfree and
electrically ambipolar field that produces it. It is this massfree electric
energy that we claim constitutes in fact the true meaning of orgone energy -
yet, even this electrically ambipolar field itself is also the result of a
still more fundamental form of massfree energy, nonelectric and
nonelectromagnetic."


Explanations of Natural Phenomena: Biological Energy, Cloud Formation,
Intrinsic Potential Energy of Molecules, OR Effect of the ORAC, Energy
Content of Water, Gravity, Anti-Gravity
_______________________________________
* PC - "...whether insulated or not, the action of the body is always to
draw charge by contact with metallic objects charged with either polarity,
and draw the kinetic energy of charge from the same objects through the
radiative field of the body... If the ambipolar electric field were the
dominant form of biological energy - and not the result of a transformation
from a still more fundamental form of energy, neither electric nor
electromagnetic - then the action of the body by contact, and in the absence
of 'friction' with the ground, should charge metallic objects and, more
important than any such residual rectification, the approach of the body,
insulated or not, to the electroscope should not depress the charged state
of the latter independently of electric polarity. Since none of this is
observed, and since we demonstrate most rigorously that the action of the
ORAC, the so-called orgone effect, it too is neither electric, nor
electromagnetic, we are led to conclude that the most primitive layer of
massfree energy which is specific to the living pertains to a realm others
have referred to as latent energy, though no one presently knows exactly
what its physical expressions are, nor how to connect or link them. This is
what Aetherometry ties together into a stunning conclusion - there are all
types of ways in which we can measure this fundamental nonelectric and
nonelectromagnetic energy from which arise all the massfree electric and the
'tertiary' electromagnetic effects, and these paths have - up until now -
remained unexplored with respect not just to action of the fundamental
energy field of living systems, or the electroscope, but also with respect
to such basic natural phenomena as cloud-formation, the intrinsic potential
energy of molecules, the OR effect of the ORAC, the energy content of water
and so on. This is what ultimately led us to understand the nature of both
gravity and antigravity, or Celeritas, in a new way..."


Fundamental Nature of Charge
____________________________
* AC:  "...How can all these researchers speak so much of the electron and
have so little idea of what the beast is actually like? Another slight of
hand is how they unconsciously slide from using the term electron to the
term charge, as if they were interchangeable! We had to make both the
mathematical and semiological languages of science become more precise, more
exacting. The phenomenon of charge is more universal and fundamental than
that of inertia or mass."


Relation Between Charge and Inertia / Conversion of Mass into Length!
_____________________________________________________________________
* PC - "...It would take us two years to fully disengage its [the
electron's] structure - the mystery of its wave structure and how and why it
changes between electric and electromagnetic configurations, as well as
decode its volumetric aspects, and the relation between charge and inertia.
No one at present has any idea of the actual electron structure. We intend
to publish this material very soon - since this is ground that our modern
physicists purport to understand and know full well, and yet do not. Our
departure point was a confrontation of Aspden's brilliant theory of the
electron and the quon particle with the conventional 'understanding' of the
electron. In the process, we came to finally understand the conversion of
mass into length that Reich had proposed as early as 1944, and which we had
cracked numerically, but without fully understanding it, in 1991..."

Structure of Proton, Electron, and the Hydrogen Atom
____________________________________________________
PC: "...This opened the doors to the electromagnetic fine structure of the
electron mass-energy, which inevitably led us to a new structure also of the
proton and the hydrogen atom. Then came the problem of charge - which for
years had been dogging us: how to understand charge? How to reduce it to
fundamental dimensionality? How to extract the electric structure? Is charge
always associated with inertia? Why are electrodynamic anomalies only
observed in open or interrupted circuits? How to understand the coupling of
kinetic energy to the mass-energy of an electron? Aspden here too, on these
topics, wrote many beautiful pages that were of great inspiration to us. His
notion that massbound charge resists acceleration because of an electric
property of inertia which obeys conservation of the carrier's mass-energy
was cardinal for our understanding."


Ambipolar Longitudinal Waves -- NOT Electromagnetic Waves -- Propagate Light
Across Space; Light as a Local Phenomenon
_________________________________________
AC - "...Effectively, modern physics knows nothing about these energy realms
- it knows nothing about electric energy because it is ignorant of massfree
electricity, nothing about gravity because it reduces it to mere questions
of topological description, concentration of mass and geometry, and nothing
either about energy capable of developing negative gravity. Even
electromagnetic energy - the best known realm of physical science - is very
poorly understood. We contend, for instance, that, aside from locally
assembling a photon, there are no electromagnetic waves propagating light
across space. Light is always produced locally in response to the
propagation of an electrically ambipolar, longitudinal wave."


The Intellectual Poverty of "Reichians"
_______________________________________
* PC:  "...The smashing majority of the followers of Reich have kept
knowledge of the Aether and Orgone separate from any sensible contact with
the scientific process, and thoroughly amalgamate the concept of Orgone
energy to simplistic mysticisms. And official science is only too happy to
comply. One of the targets of our work is to end this charade. To denounce
it and expose it. It is neither life nor knowledge that this situation
befriends. Confusion only breeds confusion."

State Sponsored "Knowledge"
(Note:  This has been observed in spades during the cold fusion war. - EFM)
___________________________
* AC:  "..The modern way is to validate knowledge by letting it be selected
by market forces, supported by the State with the public purse and
reassessed by peers protecting vested interests - knowledge has been, by
that very same fact, made subordinate to human values that are set above
life, to intermediaries that are in fact foreign to science and impose these
values upon its quest. What we propose with Aetherometry is that knowledge
only matters if it serves Life, if it serves as a line of escape from
institutionalized Survival."


THE AETHEROMETRY MONOGRAPHS
    -- A VERY Brief Guide to Experiments and Conclusions

There is NO Substitute for full examination of this work, which is not easy.
However, one can at least read the abstracts that are public (non-fee) and
get a good idea of the gist of each one. I thought it would be useful to
point out some of the high points and the kinds of *EXPERIMENTS* that are
embodied within each monograph.
 
Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1

AS2-01    Nonequivalence between work performed by charge against gravity
and the electric energy of the same 'charge gas'
The gravitokinetoregenerative phenomenon)
________________
A most astonishing and provocative result, and perhaps the most difficult
monograph to come to terms with initially -- given that it is suggesting
that in every physics lab in every high school and college, the
electroscopes that are quietly sitting on the shelf can provide evidence of
perpetual influx of heretofore unknown energy.  This work concerns the
separated gold leaves of an electroscope and what holds them apart.
Conventional physics naively says that it's just "static electricity" of the
charge placed on or induced in the leaves that keeps them apart -- in
principle, indefinitely. (This,  apart from the *presumptively* understood
charge leakage or seepage phenomena -- all is not what it seems as later
monographs will show!)  It is shown, by experiment, that the work performed
by leaf deflection against gravity by a quantity of 'charge gas' is NOT
equivalent to the electric energy input!!    A theory to account for the
phenomenon is discussed (which relies on results from the AToS theory and
Reich's so-called pendulum law.)

It is shown that the non-electric component of the kinetic energy of the
trapped charges -- which must perform both electric and antigravitational
work -- must be continuously regenerated. This regeneration must come from
some "hidden variable" in the local medium (the later monographs identify
this with an aspect of the Aether). Summing up, the Correas write: "We found
therefore that, in order for the electric work of repulsion performed by
charge against charge to be conserved, the work performed by charge against
local gravity must be constantly supplied by regeneration of the kinetic
energy of the trapped charges from the surrounding medium."

*EXPERIMENT: Gold leaf electroscope is calibrated (angle vs. voltage). Then
charge and discharge time profiles are examined oscilloscopically and the
work of deflection computed and compared to experiment.
*EXPERIMENT: Measured leaf deflection decay profiles -- work-equivalent
position energy vs. time -- are integrated for two different atmospheric
conditions.  It is found that the kinetic energy electrically spent by the
leaf-trapped 'charge gas' in opposing gravity field energy during the leaf
decay is 228 times greater than the electric energy input, for one curve!
The clear weather curve shows that charge spends 736 times the input energy!
Ergo, there is a source of energy in the medium that can provide far beyond
the electric energy input.  (This conclusion is NOT dependent on any
imagined particularities of charge leakage or seepage.)   "Electrostatic
potential"  cannot account for the work of leaf deflection.  If this single
monograph is correct in its conclusions --and it is hard to escape that
conclusion (providing certain mathematical relationships concerning mass and
length introduced are accepted), then there is EVERY reason to take all the
remaining monographs very, very seriously. They deal with electroscopes used
in different environments and much else...

AS2-01 Addendum, concerning the pendulum formula as applied to the work
performed against gravity by the electroscopic leaf.
____________________
This brief addendum concerns a possible factor-of-2 error that may have
crept in in AS2-01, prompted by the examination of some readers. The Correas
stick by their result.  But it is admirable how they openly address the
critiques.


AS2-02    Variation of the spontaneous discharge rate of atmospheric
electroscopes induced by electric and nonelectric, local and nonlocal,
hidden variables
___________________
 
Study of the roles played by electric and non-electric factors affecting and
controlling the spontaneous discharge rates of electroscopes --both
positively and negatively charged ones.

*EXPERIMENTS: Study of he variation of the spontaneous discharge rates of
identical, calibrated, gold-leaf electroscopes directly exposed for a month
to varying outdoor atmospheric conditions, and how the observed rate
variation correlated, or not, with local atmospheric parameters or nonlocal
parameters of solar origin.
*EXPERIMENTS: Comparative studies of the effect of a negative ion generator
upon the electroscopes.
"We found that atmospheric electroscopes essentially respond to a total of
five distinct hidden variables, which fall into two groups - those that
accelerate the spontaneous discharge rate and those that slow it down or
arrest the discharge. In the first group, we have two local and two nonlocal
factors at play. The local factors are essentially nonelectric. The first
local factor refers to the capacity or ability of cloud systems,
particularly those associated with low pressure cells, to draw nonelectric
energy from neighbouring localities and thus diminish the kinetoregenerative
power of the medium local to the instruments."

Four of the variables were found to only accelerate the electroscopic
spontaneous discharge rate. The fifth hidden variable, which was found to be
of solar origin (from its time of day correlation) *arrests* (stops)  or
*tends to arrest* the discharge. This is inferred to be a nonlocal variable
that accounts for the power of the local medium to regenerate the kinetic
energy -- Quoting:  "...which charge spends in performing work against
gravity when trapped in a conductor subject, in turn, to electrostatic
repulsion. Essentially, the kinetoregenerative power of the local medium is
in turn replenished by this component of solar radiation."

AS2-03    A note on Reich's concept of an electroscopic OP and the concept
of a nonelectric kinetoregenerative power of the local atmospheric medium
_________________

No new experiments introduced. This is a discussion of whether Reich's
concept of an 'orgonotic potential' (OP) is a "physical, mathematical and
scientific index of electric tension, or of charge? What energy function(s)
does it correspond to?"
Quoting: "..the notions of tension and charge distinctly evoked electric
functions, whereas the concept that Reich really needed in order to explain
that [electroscope] arrest should have instead referred to the nonelectric
power of the local medium to regenerate the kinetic energy of charge, and
thereby induce arrest of the spontaneous electroscopic discharge
irrespective of electric polarity. This last is the critical nonelectric
condition, given that arrest induced by electric fields or ion fluxes can
only occur for either seepage or leakage, but not for both."
This monograph eliminates flaws in Reich's methodology that can be seen as
responsible for the inappropriate amalgamation by "Reichians" of orgone
energy with negative ions and negative electricity.

AS2-04    Electroscopic demonstration of reverse potentials of energy flow
able to draw kinetic and electric energies
________________

*EXPERIMENTS: Possibly the most astonishing monograph of all, because very
simple experiments with electroscope charging and discharging are shown to
prove that a human being is a transducer of energy flows heretofore unknown.
These experiments could be done and commented on by bright high-school
students -- after which, they might be observed burning their physics books!

Quoting in full the abstract: "Methodological objections are raised to the
conventional understanding of the charged states of the electroscope, and a
new classification of charging methods is proposed. The existing hiatuses in
conventional electrostatic theory of the electroscope stem from complete
ignorance of the electroscopic action of observable reverse potentials,
first proposed by Dr. Wilhelm Reich over sixty years ago, which establish
centripetal radiative fields capable of drawing both nonelectric kinetic
energy and the electric energy of charge trapped in conductors. From an
experimental examination alone of the electroscopic interactions of the
human body, the authors conclude, as Reich did, that there is an energy
specific to living systems and to the ground, which is neither electric nor
electromagnetic." 

AS2-05    The thermal anomaly in ORACs and the Reich-Einstein experiment:
implications for blackbody theory
__________________

This was my point of entry into hands-on experiments with Faraday cages and
calibrated, 0.05 deg division mercury thermometers.  After the Correas sent
me their paper to be published in IE (Ref.7), which is part of this
monograph, a new world opened up.  There is absolutely no doubt in my mind
that Einstein's reaction to Reich's observed thermal anomalies connected
with Faraday cages, was indeed one of the biggest blunders in the history of
science. 

*EXPERIMENT: Reproduction of the indoor Reich-Einstein experiment.
Experimental verification of the thermal anomaly reported by Reich.
Demonstration of how it can be "analytically and experimentally separated
from the effect of convection air currents."
*EXPERIMENTS: A series of outdoor experiments with black and white ORACS,
conducted both in the shade and under full solar exposure.

Conclusion: "...we demonstrate how the thermal energy registered inside both
chambers of controlled ORACs cannot be accounted for by the blackbody
spectrum for solar radiation (for which we propose a new
physico-mathematical treatment employing the tools we have developed
elsewhere in the form of the Aetherometric Theory of Synchronicity, AToS),
nor by the experimentally determined blackbody radiation spectra for the
controlled ORACs employed in these experiments. The results formally
demonstrate that whatever is the nature of the energy converting into
thermal energy to produce the verifiable thermal anomaly, its ultimate
source is definitely solar, and yet it cannot be thermal energy, i.e.
nonionizing electromagnetic energy. These findings run dead counter to
existing variants of thermal ZPE (zero point energy) theories. A formal
treatment of all the consequences of these findings - for such disciplines
as aether science, thermodynamics, thermoelectrics, and quantum blackbody
theory - is deferred to a subsequent communication."


AS2-06    Comparative study of the variation in the spontaneous discharge
rate of atmospheric electroscopes and electroscopes placed within 'orgone
accumulators'
___________________

*EXPERIMENTS:  A series of experiments with electroscopes prove that "the
energy concentrated inside ORACs and responsible for the anomalous
deceleration and arrest of electroscopes placed within them, irrespective of
charge polarity, is neither thermal nor electric."
The Correas "determine the comprehensive values of the energy and power of
ORAC devices (in Reich's idiom, to measure the actual orgone energy values,
and their variation, within these devices)."  And, they prove that the
electroscopic kinetoregenerative phenomenon is not of thermal origin.

KEY CONCLUSION: "...the Aether energy effect responsible for the thermal and
electroscopic anomalies observed within the ORAC is neither electric, nor
electromagnetic, nor gravitational per se, but antigravitational. In full
agreement with our Aetherometric Theory of Synchronicity (AToS), we conclude
that, by a heretofore unknown process, charges trapped in a conductor
undergoing electrostatic repulsion - or, for that matter, in a dielectric
undergoing electrostatic repulsion, as can be easily observed with
electroscopic leaves made of dielectric materials - and subject to a local
gravitational potential, are able to tap local Aether energy and to convert
some of its nonelectric and nonelectromagnetic energy into their kinetic
energy. This kinetic energy is associated with charge but distinct from it,
and charge spends it precisely to counteract the continuous action of the
local gravitational energy. This counteraction is maximal at electroscopic
discharge arrest. The kinetoregenerative phenomenon demonstrates therefore
that there exists another form of energy which is neither electric, nor
electromagnetic, nor gravitational. Yet, this energy appears to be
responsible for an array of electric, thermal and gravitational anomalies."


AS2-07    Decoding the thermal and nonthermal equivalents of the org
as a unit of aether energy
______________
 
A monograph with no new experiment called out, but which analyzes the
combined results of AS2-05 and AS2-06. It also proposes the basic
foundations for the aetherometric theory of temperature, and provides a
stunning new dimensional equivalence for temperature!  These investigations
are slipped in while it overtly deals with historical terminology used by
Reich.  The Correas state: "Reich once postulated the org as a natural and
experimental unit of OR energy that was referenced to the thermal
performance of the ORAC he invented. But he was unable to resolve its exact
value, or to provide its thermal and nonthermal equivalences, both
experimental and theoretical."  This, the Correas carry out, to provide the
org either in terms of sensible or latent heat. The former determination
turns out to relate the org precisely to the molecular Boltzmann energy
unit.   The org is, in effect, a measure of the "heating powers of an ORAC."

Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2A

AS2-08    Photoinduced arrest of the spontaneous electroscopic discharge and
the Hallwacks experiment revisited
______________

This is a turning-point monograph, in its extensive discussion of the true
character and divisions within the conventionally understood electromagnetic
spectrum.  The experiment of Hallwacks (which after Einstein became known as
the photoelctric effect experiment!) is repeated to reveal a significant
anomaly.  A remarkable series of experiments is carried out:
* EXPERIMENT: Measurement of the discharge rate of two gold-leaf
electroscopes, one inside a dry incubator (to establish a large temperature
difference with ambient air) and the other outside.  Proving that the
kinetoregenerative phenomenon is not thermal.
* EXPERIMENT: Hallwacks Experiment of 1888 repeated with germicidal UV
fluorescent lamp, also controls with fluorescent lamps with filters; also
tests with IR and Solar-UV lamps.

The amazing discovery --contradicting Hallwacks -- that far UV affects the
fall of POSITIVELY charged electroscope. Also, far UV does  NOT affect
positively charged and negatively charged electroscopes equally -- contrary
to what ionizing radiation does.  Major finding: under a variety of
conditions: visible light and near-UV light promote electroscope discharge
arrest. In other words, the Hallwacks effect is induced by nonionizing far
and vacuum UV blackbody radiation (HFOT photons), whereas near UV and
visible-light blackbody radiation (i.e. LFOT photons) mimic latent heat and
sustain the kinetoregerative phenomenon.  The Correas say in the monograph:
"This [the photoinduced regeneration] constitutes formal proof of [their]
contention that charge trapped in a conductor immersed in a local
gravitational field requires, in addition to the electric energy it consists
of, a surplus of kinetic energy that it can borrow from the local medium,
and which it spends by constantly performing work against gravity." The
borrowed energy may be electromagnetic- for as long as it is nonionizing and
non-free-radical-inducing - but of  sufficiently high frequency (hence
thermal electromagnetic frequencies cannot efficiently support the
kinetoregenerative phenomenon). In the absence of suitable blackbody
radiation, the borrowed energy comes from the available latent heat - which,
in any case, is the more ordinary pathway.

Many conclusions are drawn concerning qualitative  and distinct domains of
the electromagnetic spectrum. Too extensive and detailed for these brief
highlights.  Final remark links to work to be carried out in subsequent
modules: "We do not yet know what is the aether-sourced physical process
responsible for the production and disjunction of HFOT and LFOT photons -
and this will constitute the object of follow-up communications."

AS2-09    The allotropic atmospheric cycle of oxygen, ozone and water:
foundations of photo- and aetherochemistry
____________

Based upon existing data for the reciprocal chemical conversion of oxygen
and ozone and, likewise, of water into acid ion and atomic oxygen, the
Correas propose a novel way to balance the enthalpies of these processes,
and separate the mechanisms of action of both HFOT and LFOT photons in the
allotropic ('two-form') cycle that constitutes the most basic molecular
material of the atmosphere.  This is a must-read for environmentally-minded
people.  The monograph lays the ground for the later AS2-17B study, where
the exact spectra of the radiations driving the two-part cycle are unveiled.
The self-regenerative aspect of the cycle appears to be tied into the
constant infusion of negative light leptons.  It is suggested that this
constitutes evidence for the asymmetric creation of massbound charges -
astonishing observation: "... the existing photochemical relations fail to
account for the physical, pre-atomic processes that generate negatronic
charge independently from the known processes of pair production."  In other
words, it is required that electrons be created from the aether to explain
this most basic atmospheric cycle!  This monograph shows how potentially
all-encompassing Aetherometry really is.  There are also some provocative
medical implications discussed.

AS2-10    The kinetoregenerative phenomenon and the AToS model of a
fundamental aether energy element capable of counteracting gravitons
____________

A monograph concerning how the fundamental aether element identified by the
Correas as  being responsible for the asymmetric creation of negative light
leptons can have an antigravitational effect. No new experiments are
introduced here, but the analysis employs the data from the experiments
reported in AS2-01, AS2-02, AS2-06 and AS2-08 to demonstrate a fundamental
resonance between the gold graviton and this very aether energy element,
thereby suggesting that a novel physical process is responsible  for the
kinetoregenerative phenomenon.   In the process, and almost unnoticed, the
Correas even provide the fine structure of the electron graviton!   They
also provide entirely new particle ratios and equations for photons,
gravitons, electrons, gold atoms and aether energy units in both the
Hallwacks experiment and the gravitokinetoregenerative phenomenon.  No one
claiming to be interested in QM should bypass this monograph.

SHORTENED ABSTRACT FROM THE CORREAS:
"Proceeding from our previous demonstrations that there are two distinct -
with respect to work, energy and power - components to the electroscopic
interaction, one electrokinetic and the other nonelectric, which we have
designated as gravitokinetic (since it involves work performed against the
local gravitational field), we propose in the present communication a novel
mathematical, microfunctionalist treatment of the gravitokinetic
interaction, that indicates how aether energy units abstracted locally by
the charges trapped in the conduction band of the electroscopic leaf are
employed to counteract the gravitational attractive effect upon the same
leaf of a determinate number of gravitons that are provided by the local
gravitational field to act upon the atoms of that leaf. In the process, we
propose that the aether energy element abstracted by the trapped charges is
the same element whose secondary superimposition yields, by the AToS, both
the electron mass-energy and the graviton associated with the electron (the
electron-graviton).We propose that this fundamental resonant aether element
has a nonelectric massfree energy..."

"Furthermore, we propose that, by application of the AToS, we must conclude
that the gold-graviton...is also a resonant state of the aether energy
element fundamental to all elementary charges. Finally, we also suggest that
the same aether element, being equally intrinsic to the structure of the
electron mass-energy as a sub- element, interacts with blacklight photons to
produce the Hallwacks photoelectric effect, whose true y coefficient we
claim to have experimentally ascertained as shown in a previous
communication. These findings also permit for the first time the
identification of the basic graviton associated with the electron
mass-energy."

***END of Part 2***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 20:17:10 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02049;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 20:16:14 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:16:14 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:18:19 -0700
Subject: The Correas - Part 3 of 4
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B91B123B.2CC5%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"J5Na62.0.sV.-bPzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47182
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

***The Correas - Part 3 of 4***

AS2-11    A light-irreducible split-aether continuum encompassing production
of black (HFOT) and thermal (LFOT) photons
__________________________________

As most Vortexians know, the history of the debate about the nature of light
is central to our present understanding of physics.  We normally think of
the battles over the wave-versus particle nature, culminating in the 20th
Century with quantum mechanical descriptions positing a mystifying duality.
But the subject is much more complex, involving as it does the imposition of
Special and General Theories of Relativity on an already indeterminate
historical situation.  The Correas propose a new model that reforms the
highly ambiguous picture, yet one should not expect that such a reformation
will be easy to assimilate! Remember, modern physics has asked us to
"believe" in many "impossible things" already, so it is not surprising that
when these more or less firm mental images from modern physics that we have
of what light and photons are -- or are not --are challenged, the new
picture does not go down easily. The Correas provide an historical overview
of the evolution of their theory, which is motivated in this monograph by
EXPERIMENT (see below). But first, their entire ABSTRACT quoted:

"From Descartes' Plenum of subtle matter defined by its luminous character,
through Spinoza's Light and its effects of Colour and Shadow, to the
classical electromagnetic theory of a luminiferous aether and modern ZPE
theories, the problem of the Aether has always been posed as inseparable
from that of Light, the action and transmission of Light. This often
entailed a direct reduction of the concept of the aether to that of Light -
as is the case with Spinoza -or to that of the electromagnetic field - as is
the case with ZPE theories. The situation with Descartes is different, as
with Maxwell and Lorentz, because here an implicit division is made between
the Aether as support system and Light as either a corpuscular or an
undulatory event. It was this concept of an aether as a support of Light
which SR made superfluous, 'liberating ' Light in the form of an
electromagnetic field of constant speed for all inertial mass, and
converting all Matter into opaque forms of Light. Thereby, however, Light
retained its primacy in physics and natural philosophy. One can contemplate
GR as an attempt to eliminate this lingering primacy of Light in SR, by
making Light heavy and thus subject to conditioning by the gravitational
field, with the result that the gravitational aether becomes a geometric
structure where the null intervals of Minkowski Spacetime become the curved
geodesics of GR 's Spacetime."

"But making Light heavy is only a way of either attributing the Dark (fuscum
subnigrum) to Matter (as was done with the missing mass) or reducing it to a
geometry of Light. The only philosopher to seize the Dark as the matrix from
which Light and Colour emerge, was Leibniz. His approach to the problem of
the vacuum ("there is no vacuum ") and his contention in First Truths that
neither Space nor Time are things but multiplicities of a continuum that
cannot be divided into points, intimate that the fundamental property of a
Plenum is not Light but Darkness."

"The Aetherometric Theory of Synchronicity (AToS) takes up Leibniz 's
contention that the aether is not Light but the Dark, which alone explains
how Light emerges when the Dark interacts with Matter to confer motion to
it. We review Reich 's orgonometric theory of Light, and in particular his
concept of an underlying aether excitation wave. Reich's theory is seen as a
precursor to the aetherometric concepts of Light and the Dark. AToS suggests
that Light is only a secondary pathway whereby energy returns back to the
Dark. The Light spectrum is subdivided into discontinuous (ionizing) and
epicontinuous (blackbody) portions, because only the latter results from the
interaction of Matter with the Dark, while discontinuous Light results from
the disintegration of Matter. But the Dark itself is not homogenous, being
split in kind between life-beneficial energy (OR)and life-inimical energy
(DOR). AToS holds that the Dark understood in this way designates the
electrically ambipolar massfree radiation that serves as one of the major
components of the Aether. It is this radiation which, through secondary
superimposition, condenses massbound charges, and interacts with the latter
to confer to them electrokinetic energy that, once shed, gives rise to
blackbody photons which return the energy back to the medium. The nature of
the underlying Dark continuum, and its very split in kind, becomes thereby
reflected in the biochemical and biophysical nature of blackbody Light,
which AToS splits into HFOT (high frequency optothermal - true blacklight)
photons and LFOT (low frequency optothermal) photons. HFOT Light is
indicative of an underlying DOR action just as LFOT Light is a sign of OR
activity. It is the epicontinuous spectrum of Light that betrays the
structure of the actual continuum of the electric aether. If the problem of
Light is not separable from the problem of the aether, of the Dark, the
latter, in turn, is not subsidiary to the problem of Light. As demanded by
Leibniz, we must think the Dark independently from Light - as much as from
Matter, even if it is the Dark that links both Light and Matter and
transmits the excitation waves that produce Light. This Dark is in a
permanent state of motion; it is a subtle imponderable energy that carries
no mass. One of the major challenges this process of conceptualization poses
to AToS is the understanding that the Dark does not just consist of
electrically ambipolar massfree radiation. Free electric wave energy forms
an electric continuum with definite frequency limits, but this continuum in
turn is only a differentiated part of a much greater aether energy continuum
formed by nonelectric massfree energy that one may designate as latent -
because its 'heat 'is insensible and thus invisible, or because it appears,
to modern physics at least, to lack any physical characteristics. The
challenge that future presentations will pose is the experimental
identification of the physical characteristics of latent aether energy, and
of the differentiation process that produces electrically ambipolar massfree
energy."

*EXPERIMENT: Confirming Reich's observations with evacuated tubes (Vacor
tubes) that indicated pulsatory activity of such tubes in response to a
charged electrostatic rod (observed both oscilloscopically and via the
recorder section of a Geiger -Muller tube).  IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY APPLIED
POTENTIAL TO THE VACUUM TUBE, some 2000 counts per second were recorded for
a single pass near the tube of the charged rod.  Lumination of the tube also
observed.  
*EXPERIMENT: Parallel pulsatory response to a charged electrostatic rod is
seen when the rod is passed between metal plates in air.
*EXPERIMENT: Electrostatic charged pendulum interacting with a rectification
circuit -- assessments indicate that this is a "direct gravito-electric
converter which does not exhaust the charge trapped in the dielectric
pendulum and employs the local gravitation field to both condense massbound
charge and impart to it electrokinetic energy, at the receiver plates." That
is, it is proposed that this experiment exhibits literally the creation of
electrons from the aether, as a surface condensation process, much as if the
apparatus converted gravitational into massbound electric energy.
*EXPERIMENTS: With Wimshurst electrostatic generators (0.5 meter from a
vacuum tube) and Tesla coils (1 meter from the tube), separately.
Conclusion: "Something in the vacuum is more  responsive or sensitive to
neighboring disturbances of electrostatic potential, than is a wire-pick up
under atmospheric conditions.

This brilliant monograph ends with this statement: "Lastly, we would like
the reader to note that the evidence we have provided for auto-electronic
pulse signatures as markers for the local flux of ambipolar electric
radiation is not a novel phenomenon per se. It goes unrecognized as such in
the literature, with respect -- in particular - to studies of lightning
signatures picked up by antennas, it has long been employed with some
realization of the longitudinal nature of the electric waves ultimately
causing the observed pulsatory (auto-electronic emission) signatures."
(References to two works, one by C. Yost (2001) and the other by T. Ogawa
(1982) are given.).



AS2-12    AToS theory of the volt and the electron volt
- an aetherometric perspective on longitudinal electric waves
__________________________

This is an analytic monograph that is required for one to understand the
subsequent monographs (AS2-13 to AS2-17C).  Drawing from unpublished volumes
of AToS, the Correas propose a variety of dimensional corrections to key
electrical concepts, as well as the aetherometric value of key physical
quantities.  The ABSTRACT reads:


"We succinctly submit basic aetherometric theoretical and mathematical
formulations for the electric functions of potential, charge, energy and
power, as they apply to either massbound (monopolar) and massfree
(ambipolar) forms of electricity. The microfunctional formulations are
rigorously derived with aetherometric tools, and they put into evidence the
common misconceptions of electric functions harking back to Maxwell.
Fundamental aetherometric equivalences are provided for the volt, the
electron-volt, the charge quantum e, Planck's constant, the electron
mass-energy and the Duane-Hunt wavelength we have identified. A new constant
is introduced (the Eta-Correa constant   ) and the potential of the electron
mass-energy is demonstrated as being equivalent to a wavespeed having the
exact value [Formula is given-EFM]. Electric charge is demonstrated to be a
linear momentum function, and the authors propose that all electric
potentials be understood as longitudinal wave-functions, whether produced by
standing or traveling waves, and whether they are constitutive of
mass-energy or kinetic energy. Such a standing voltage wave is identified as
intrinsic to the structure of the electron mass-energy."

A comment by H. Aspden is cited by the Correas up front:
"The origin of the electron must be a medium which is electrical in
character and no amount of abstract thinking can avoid this conclusion.
Relativity does not have the power to cross these boundaries either. The
language of the aether is not Relativity. It is the physics of the electron,
the properties of electric charge, which can reveal the secrets of the
aether medium." (from H. Aspden, Modern Aether Science", p.91)


AT THIS POINT THE CORREAS THEMSELVES PROVIDE A MOTIVATION AND A MAP FOR THE
NEXT FOUR MONOGRAPHS -- THEY HAVE MADE MY WORK EASY!  QUOTING THEM IN FULL:

"Monographs AS2-13and AS2-14:
The Dual Nature of the Energy Radiated by Tesla Coils, Parts 1 and 2
 
"Short Abstract 

"Tesla coils have now, for over a century, been objects of great wonder and
also mystery. Tesla himself employed their principle in his famous patent
for wireless power transmission. Yet, despite attempts by a few dedicated
experimenters (R. Hull, the Corums) who have proposed new theoretical
approaches to the operation of these devices, the coil has remained
essentially miscomprehended, precisely because it superimposes two distinct
oscillatory electric fields, one associated with massbound charge and the
other with massfree charge. Moreover, the coil outputs neither
electromagnetic radiation, nor an ion field. The basic demonstration of
these stunning facts is carried out in these monographs, where aetherometric
experimental and theoretical tools are employed to differentiate, on the
basis of fundamental physical effects, the ambipolar massfree radiation of
Tesla waves from the radiative effects of photons - whether ionizing, HFOT
or LFOT photons - as well as from the monopolar electric field effects of
ion fluxes or electrostatic charges. These reports establish, from basic
scientific facts, the existence of a longitudinal, massfree, electric
ambipolar form of energy radiation which is emitted from these coils, and
provide the fundamental tools for aetherometric analysis of their operation.
This leads the authors to a demonstration of the correct physical meaning of
such basic functions as inductance and the characteristic frequency of the
coil, laying the foundations for what will become the complete aetherometric
analysis of Tesla coils carried out in companion papers AS-15 and AS2-16.
The fundamental magnetic and electric frequency functions of the massfree
and massbound currents are identified. And an exact aetherometric proof that
the electric wavespeed of the ambipolar radiation known as Tesla waves is
not bound by c and typically exceeds it, is provided. These two essays -
AS2-13 and AS2-14 - are precisely what is needed before one can understand
longitudinal, ambipolar, massfree radiation as something distinct from
electromagnetism or photon energy."


AS2-13 "(Re-)examination of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils, Part
1: Experimental determination of its dual nature"
_______________

Might as well cite the larger Correa ABSTRACT in full here, since it makes
clear in
*EXPERIMENTS with Tesla coils what has been found:
 
"Experimental re-examination of the basic physical properties of the Tesla
coil does not confirm the commonly held notions that it radiates
"electromagnetic field energy", or that its loosely termed "electrostatic
radiation field" is in any way mediated by ions formed as a consequence of
the ionizing properties of the said electromagnetic radiation. Formally, we
demonstrate how the Tesla coil is neither a source of ionizing photons
(since it fails to discharge a positively charged electroscope, inside - or
outside - of its electric or 'electrostatic' field), nor a source of HFOT or
LFOT photons, including thermal ones (since it fails to trigger
photoelectric cells and its diathermic effect can be shown to be an indirect
one). It is also not a source of either negative or positive ions, given
that it can bipolarize a doped full wave divider. Yet, its 'electrostatic
field' charges most metallic (ungrounded) surfaces positively. To explore
further the nature of the Tesla waves, we tested the effect of the Tesla
coil output both with a proportional chamber and with a simple plate antenna
connected to a radiation ratemeter: whereas, like ionizing and HFOT photons,
Tesla waves triggered the proportional chamber, unlike either, and unlike
any other, type of "electromagnetic radiation", Tesla waves alone were
capable of triggering the ratemeter via the plate antenna, even at
substantial distances.

"Taken together, these results suggest that there is a complex process of
conversion of energy at work in these induction coils. The pulsed input to
the primary coil induces in the space of the closely coupled secondary a
conversion of the local aether energy into electric form. Aether wave energy
is tapped by the capacito-inductive properties of the secondary coil to
yield resonant, synchronized, superimposed, but distinct 'electric'
(electrocapacitative) and 'magnetic' (magnetoinductive) waves. These wave
functions properly constitute the massfree radiative field energy emitted by
the coil, but they also induce or assemble, within the secondary, an
alternate current of massbound charges, or electrons. In turn, this
alternate current of electrons in the secondary couples its own 'magnetic'
field to the electrocapacitative waves of the coil, to yield a proximal
field effect which is responsible for drawing valence and conduction charge
from metallic bodies. Beyond the limit of this proximal massbound field
effect, the radiated (distal) field of what is known as 'Tesla waves' is
composed solely of the 'electric' and 'magnetic' massfree waves radiated
from the coil, and is only able to draw charges from the conduction band of
metallic bodies. There are therefore quite distinct field effects of Tesla
coils. Unfortunately, the proximal field energy has been confusedly
assimilated to a "DC or electrostatic field", just as the distal field has
been confusedly assimilated to an "AC electromagnetic field". But both
fields possess "AC characteristics" and their real difference stems from the
fact that one is both proximal and distal, and composed of primary massfree
charges, while the other is only proximal, and the effect of the secondary
flux of massbound charges. All happens as if the these coils synthesized two
different kinds of electric fields, one proximal and massbound, and the
other massfree and responsible for all distal effects. It is the massfree
electric field that serves as the conduit for the massbound electric field,
since only the former exists both proximally and distally, and thus all
observable distal effects are due to it - such as the observed acceleration
of leakage rates in electroscopes placed at greater distances from the coil.
Conversely, it is the induced massbound charge field that is responsible for
the observed spontaneous positive charging of the electroscope in the
proximity of the coil, but since the radiated electric energy is not an
ionizing one, nor does it consist of ion emission, the observed proximal
monopolar (positive) charging of metal objects depends solely on the
metallic nature of the targeted bodies, not upon any supposed "DC
characteristic of an electrostatic field" output by the coil. In a parallel
fashion, the primary massfree charge field is no less electrical than the
proximal field - and thus fully undeserving of the epithet
"electromagnetic". 

"We can only speak of production of photons or the presence of
electromagnetic energy when the primary superimposition of the two
synchronous wave functions of the massfree energy field is resolved, at the
surface of the metallic bodies that it is emitted from or strikes, to yield
the "characteristic electromagnetic" or photonic frequency of the coil in
the form of damped waves. Light, and also heat, are therefore indirect
effects of Tesla waves, mere secondary emissions from metallic bodies
exposed to Tesla radiation. The true "electromagnetic AC component "must
therefore be understood as the secondary mechanical result of resolving the
superimposition of Tesla waves. From this vantage point, the so-called
'electrostatic' and 'electromagnetic' fields of the Tesla coil cannot be
thought of in the traditional manner where the former is the result of the
latter, as mediated by ionization, and where the latter alone constitutes
the primary emission. There is neither an electrostatic DC field nor an AC
electromagnetic field (let alone an ionizing one), and we demonstrate this
fact experimentally; both electrostatic and photonic fields are secondary
effects resulting from the interaction of metallic matter with resonant
'electric' and 'magnetic' waves, such that the superimposition of these
waves is subsequently resolved either to charge that matter or to induce it
to emit light and heat.

"Finally, basic aetherometric analysis formally demonstrates how the aether
wave functions, whether formed capacitatively or inductively, are not
limited at all by the photon limit wavespeed c, and thus cannot be thought
of, in any way, as subfunctions of an "electromagnetic" wave that propagates
transversely to the direction of its forward motion. Here, the critical
element of the analysis is the electric frequency term which, in the "vacuum
state", can be seen to exceed the blackbody radiation frequency limit   ,
thus indicating that the aether continuum may not be limited, in its upper
end, by the blackbody upper limit. This constatation is what originally led
us to the discovery of the aether electric spectra, to be presented in
companion reports."

Most importantly - if one desires to understand the difference between
ordinary electricity composed of the flux of monopolar massbound charges and
ambipolar electricity composed of massfree charges, this monograph provides
the essential experimental and theoretical distinctions between the two
types of electricity.  Likewise, if one wishes to understand similar
differences between radiative fields - whether electromagnetic, ion fluxes
or ambipolar, this is also the monograph where these distinctions are
meticulously carried out (see its Table 6, which is an immediate
eye-opener!) 

AS2-14    "Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla
coils, Part 2:  Massfree and massbound nonelectromagnetic functions and
resultant characteristic electromagnetic frequency of the coil"
_____________________

A continuation of AS2-13 that examines in great depth the so-called Tesla
equation, to find its correct aetherometric equivalence and a most peculiar
and orderly set of frequency resonances in the operation of any induction
coil, all of which are a function of the fundamental aetherometric frequency
(64*10E14) identified by the Correas as that which separates ionizing from
blackbody photons.

"....in the present communication, we complete our demonstration of how the
characteristic electromagnetic frequency of the coil, Fc, results from the
resolution of the electrocapacitative and magnetoinductive wave frequencies,
Fa and Fb, of electronic charges."

"We further propose that this process, in turn, is driven by the capture of
electric massfree energy by massbound charges, in the form of their kinetic
energy, and that it is the shedding of this kinetic energy that directly
gives rise to blackbody photon production."


Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2B

AS2-15 "The aetherometric approach to solving the problem of magnetism"
_______________________

A non-experimental monograph that is based upon the data of existing physics
but, by being consistent, corrects fundamental or basic physical errors and
mistakes regarding the nature and dimensionalities of the magnetic field
(intensity and density), their curls, and cyclotron frequency, for both
massbound and massfree charges.  The gauss and the tesla, and their
equivalence, are redefined.  Most interesting, a complete fine structure
analysis of the wave interactions involved in the structure of the electron,
its kinetic energy, and the structure of massfree charge is directly
derived.  Scientists and engineers apparently have a lot to learn! A highly
shortened version of the Correas' abstract, giving salient points:
 
"Dimensional analysis of accepted fundamental functions of magnetic flux
density B (Maxwell's 'magnetic induction') and magnetic field intensity H
(Maxwell's 'magnetic force') exposes discrepant functions that are
systematically inconsistent... We begin by demonstrating how the gauss and
the tesla, which are supposed to be equivalent measures of the magnetic
field B in separate systems of units, are dimensionally inconsistent with
each other...The findings suggest a totally new way of treating the magnetic
permeability of a medium, and very different relations of the magnetic field
functions to the current density terms Jfree and Jbound. These functions are
systematized, for both massfree and massbound charges, and contrasted to
those of Maxwell and accepted electromagnetic theory. Lastly, we demonstrate
how the dimensionalities of H and B are the same...even if one is the
reciprocal of a radius and the other of a wavelength (composite or not), in
contrast to the electric field....which is effectively a frequency function
with dimensionality of t^-1."

***END of Part 3***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 20:17:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02286;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 20:16:50 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:16:50 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:18:58 -0700
Subject: The Correas - Part 4 of 4
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B91B1262.2CC5%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA02265
Resent-Message-ID: <"IuMys2.0.cZ.YcPzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47183
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

***The Correas - Part 4 of 4***

AS2-16    "Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla
coils, Part 3: Primary massfree electric-and-magnetic waves, secondary
massbound capacito-inductive waves, and tertiary electromagnetic waves"
________________________________

This is a much abbreviated version of the Correas' abstract, which suggests
that Tesla coils are essentially "over unity" devices, when their true
nature is understood!  Let me lead with the abbreviated abstract, and follow
with VERY brief summaries of the experiments. Clearly, this monograph should
be delicious reading to those who have hungered for years for an
understanding of electrical over-unity conditions. If this monograph is
taken seriously (as it should be -- if "free energy" advocates have any
integrity at all!), there should be a global quest to confirm or reject the
results. The circuits for the experiments are laid out clearly.  There are
elaborate tables provided which further specify the formulas that describe
classical versus AToS analysis of the energy performance.

The abbreviated ABSTRACT:
"In the present communication we focus upon the theoretical and experimental
demonstration that the century-old Tesla coil has all along, unbeknownst to
modern science, functioned - when properly tuned and loaded - as a massfree
electric energy generator that, in defiance of the corollary of the second
law, outputs aether energy in electric form greatly in excess of the energy
spent at the input by the 60Hz alternate current of massbound charges. This
energy output has remained heretofore ignored because experimental and
theoretical Physics is incapable of differentiating the electromagnetic
energy associated with these coils from both types of electrical energy
involved in the coil action - and incapable of differentiating further
between these variants of electric energy that are affected to massfree and
massbound charge. In the present communication, we propose an aetherometric
method to determine the massfree ambipolar radiation of Tesla coils, as
consisting of the superimposition of primary electric and magnetic massfree
waves, and differentiate it from the aetherometric determination of the
kinetic energy of massbound charge oscillating in the coil, as the latter
deploys a secondary form of superimposition of capacito-inductive waves. The
understanding of how ambipolar radiation is captured by massbound monopolar
charges in the form of field-acquired electrokinetic energy is, in turn,
critical to functionally comprehend, physically and mathematically, how
blackbody electromagnetic spectra are indirectly produced from aether
electric energy, via the shedding of the kinetic energy of massbound
charge-carriers. "

*Experiment: Use of a wave divider to load a TC (Tesla coil) in resonance.
Use of a Tektronix CT-1 current transformer for inductively measuring
current through a conductor. Determination that the TC is performing as an
"aether energy amplifier that inductively and capacitatively converts a
given AC power input of massbound charges to the primary into a much greater
AC output of massfree charges" (about 4X "over unity"). This is a MEASURED
effect!  There appears to be no classical explanation of the measurements.
That is the point of this experiment.  The TC is outputting two kinds of
charge -- massfree and massbound, and only aetherometric tools can separate
one from the other.


A major implication leads on to hints about the technological devices that
the Correas have already mastered:  "...if only we were to learn how to
harness massfree ambipolar energy for purposes of delivering work, then we
could have at our fingertips, the ultimate solution to the social problem of
energy -- since it would suffice to tap the aether energy of any locality to
obtain a significant power output from this type of device, with a much
smaller input power."



AS2-17A "The indirect 'orgone effect' of Tesla radiation:
ambipolar aether and blackbody radiation spectra"
__________________
The Correa Abstract in Full:
"The authors demonstrate how Tesla coils produce an electrically ambipolar
aether radiation field analogous to that emitted by the Sun, and explain how
such massfree aether radiation fields interact with Faraday cages to produce
two distinct types of radiation inside them: (1) a pool of 'latent heat'
experimentally detected (in the dark) by a local increase in the
antigravitic kinetoregenerative power of charged electroscopes irrespective
of polarity; (2) blackbody spectra of high frequency LFOT photons generated
by the shedding of electrokinetic energy from electronic and molecular
charge carriers - energy that was captured from the electric aether energy
radiated by the original source. Experiments performed with Tesla coils
tuned to the modal spectrum of solar ambipolar radiation (OR subspectrum),
show indirect generation of LFOT photons, and the tuning of such coils to
generate ambipolar radiation in the DOR subspectrum is shown to generate
HFOT photons. It is proposed that all blackbody radiation spectra result
from aether (massfree) energy spectra formed within an aether electric
(ambipolar) continuum of massfree energy, and a formal aetherometric model
is introduced to permit correlation between the two energy spectra, aether
and photonic, employing solar radiations as an example.

"This effectively constitutes the first time that in the history of science
the spectrum of ambipolar energy is characterized and identified, along with
its two subspectra, ORgone and DORgone."

*EXPERIMENT: Demonstrate that massfree ambipolar radiation from a TC can
activate illumination of high vacuum tubes within Faraday cages at a
distance!  Use of photoelectric circuits in novel ways to confirm this.

*EXPERIMENT: Effects of TC's on electroscopes -- discharge arrests similar
to those produced by mid-day Sun!  "The results are incontrovertible:
whatever the conversion process at work, the Tesla radiation was transformed
-- by the geometry and the chemical nature of the antenna employed -- into
radiative energy having antigravitic kinetoregenerative properties."

The methods and conclusions of this monograph are breathtaking in their
simplicity and astonishing implications that affect all of physics. And the
Correas propose the existence of an entirely new energy spectrum different
from that of electromagnetic energy, which they meticulously analyze!  It is
hard to see how anyone can continue to speak of "the orgone" and not read
this epoch-making monograph where the orgone spectrum is unveiled. Anyone
interested in basic physics cannot afford to ignore what appears to be a
clear demonstration of massfree electric radiation and its spectral
characteristics.



AS2-17B   " Determination of the OR and DOR energies, frequencies and
wavelengths driving the atmospheric allotropic cycle of oxygen, ozone and
water"
__________

Now that ambipolar electric radiation has been characterized in the previous
monographs (AS2-13 to AS2-17A), the Correas revisit the issue of the
two-part basic cycle of the atmosphere to determine the exact ambipolar
radiation influxes that drive it.  They demonstrate how a Tesla coil is
actually the analogue of the Sun!

Quote: "In the present communication we provide the final energetic
understanding of the ambipolar radiation fluxes (OR and DOR) responsible for
the production of HFOT and LFOT photons that is characteristic of, and even
essential for, the allotropic cycle of water and oxygen-ozone."

AND THE BLUE SKY IS EXPLAINED:
"Finally, as the most poignant example of the previous statement, we note
that the blue light emanating from the last chemical step in the specific
formation of water, occurs very near the ambipolar solar radiation mode we
have discovered, and indicates how its dominant atmospheric role in
producing a blue sky (azure) is the result of an aether electric resonance
in the process of water formation.

AND -- a political barb well deserved by the Establishment: "We should note,
with regard to this communication, that it took over a century to
characterize the exact physical properties of the ambipolar electric
radiation first discovered by Tesla, and over a half-century to identify
those properties as characteristic of the OR and DOR radiations discovered
by Reich. As Nietzsche felt while writing Thus Spake Zarathustra, one can
only await, with baited breath, the baboons who will peddle the very
caricature of what was said herein."
 

AS2-17C    "The cosmic background microwave radiation as evidence
for cosmological creation of electrons with minimum kinetic energy
and for a minimum of cosmic ambipolar massfree energy."

Last but not least in volume 2B -- the fiction of the Big Bang is DONE IN!
 
"The authors examine the microwave cosmic background radiation (CBR) -
composed exclusively of LFOT photons - with aetherometric tools developed in
the preceding reports, and the results demonstrate that, unlike what is held
by the accepted neo-relativist interpretations of the CBR, its true mode
lies - not at 7.35 cm and a frequency of 4.08GHz, but at 7.76 cm and a
frequency of 3.861GHz. Still more disturbing is the fact that the
conventionally accepted temperature distribution of the CBR blackbody is off
by more than an order of magnitude with respect to the real and
aetherometric temperature scale that is demanded by a Planckian quantization
of the spectrum. The CBR temperature mode is found to lie between 0.1863 and
0.1853 degrees Kelvin. This fact alone is sufficient to dismantle any
pretensions of (neo-)Relativity to actually and adequately understand the
physical significance of the CBR and grasp the physical processes of its
production - thus putting into serious doubt the validity of the so-called
Big-Bang hypothesis."
....

"The critical contribution of Aetherometry in the present report to the
functional, physical and mathematical understanding of the CBR spectrum
lies, however, still somewhere else, in the fact that the cosmic CBR can be
shown to be the manifestation of a higher energy spectrum of ambipolar
massfree energy, lying well within the ORgone energy range which previous
experimental investigations (AS2-09 to AS2-17B) have painstakingly
identified and delimited. Furthermore, since the massbound (electronic)
charges that adsorb this ambipolar ORgone energy as their own electrokinetic
energy, are themselves created by the physico-energetic process that
produces the cosmic microwave CBR, the latter must be grasped functionally
as evidence for the asymmetric cosmological creation of light leptonic mass
constructs (first atoms of Matter) with discrete minima of transiently
associated kinetic energy reflective of the minima of ambipolar ORgone
energy permeating the entirety of the cosmos."

....

"The conclusions from this aetherometric investigation can be summarized as
follows. The microwave CBR spectrum composed exclusively of LFOT photons
constitutes proof of:

1. the cosmological creation of electrons, with attendant gravitons, and
having discrete minima of kinetic energy...

2. the existence of a minimal spectrum (which we identify) of ambipolar
electric radiation throughout the cosmos - confirming Reich's notion that
there is a minimum of ORgone energy that permeates the entirety of Space.

3. the existence of a physical process that converts free, nonelectric,
nonelectromagnetic, nongravitic, 'latent thermal' or 'antigravitic' massfree
energy into ORgone energy, or ambipolar electric radiation and, in the
process, also converts other elements of the free nonelectric Aether into
mass-energy (and thus monopolar electricity) and into gravitational energy.

Armed with these findings, we are bound to conclude that the CBR does not
present any direct or indirect evidence that permits its interpretation as a
fossil radiation, or its being construed as proof for an originary hadronic
era of the universe. On the contrary, the CBR constitutes instead effective
evidence for the continued cosmological generation or ongoing production of
leptons, and the very eternity of the cosmos."

MODULES NOT YET RELEASED: AS2-18 through AS2-24 in volume 3.


Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 4

AS2-25    Modified Orgone accumulator (HYBORAC) as drive for
low delta T Stirling Engines
      
First published in Infinite Energy #41
Complete ABSTRACT from the Correas:

*EXPERIMENTS:
"In the present report, the first of a two-part series, the authors
demonstrate a method to optimize the solar-sourced anomalous To-T difference
registered in Orgone Accumulators (ORACs) invented by W. Reich in 1939-1940,
and employ this optimized difference to drive low delta T Stirling engines
of the MM6 type, thereby putting into evidence how this thermal anomaly can
be exploited to perform 'free' work. For this purpose, we employed a novel
ORAC design - a specially-built hybrid arrangement designed to be directly
exposed to solar radiation (as filtered by the terrestrial atmosphere) and
partly composed of a black-painted ORAC and a Faraday cage - which we termed
the HYBORAC, and a few simple modifications of the Stirling motor, to
achieve hour-long midday motor speeds on the order of 20 to 140 rpm, with
delta T's ranging from 5.7 to 21°C. Prospects of further approximating the
engine delta T to the full value of To-T, and increasing the To-T difference
to >30°C, are discussed and proposed in the present report. Results from the
continuation of this work are presented in the companion essay."

AS2-26    Modified Orgone accumulator (complete HYBORAC)
as nighttime drive for low delta T Stirling Engines
      
(First published in Infinite Energy #42)
Complete ABSTRACT from the Correas:

*EXPERIMENTS:
"In the first report of this two-part series, we demonstrated that it was
possible to drive low delta T Stirling engines of the MM6 type from the
solar- sourced anomalous To-T difference registered in modified Orgone
Accumulators referred to as HYBORACs, partly composed of a matte
black-painted ORAC and Faraday cage. The design optimized response to solar
radiation as well as heat retention, yielding motor speeds up to 140 rpm
with delta T's on the order of 21°C. In the present report, our focus lies
in maximizing the HYBORAC structure so that it can sustain outdoor operation
not just when exposed directly to atmosphere- filtered solar radiation, but
above all during the nighttime hours when the device cools together with the
cooling air and in the absence of solar radiation. It should be noted that
this is not simply a problem of maintaining a positive temperature
difference (To-T), since the motor action continually pumps sensible heat
out from the HYBORAC. But by increasing the retention of heat, we can also
maximize utilization of the sensible heat being generated from other energy
conversions occurring inside ORACs."

"The solution lay in an arrangement that employs both the HYBORAC and
inverted BORACs as components of a more traditional ORAC arrangement, into
which they can be inserted. With this improved combination - referred to as
the 'complete HYBORAC' - we were able to achieve speeds of 150 rpm during
daytime (with delta T values reaching 22.5°C), and speeds of 30 to 80 rpm
during nighttime (with delta T values of 3.1 to 9°C). Maximum duration of
Stirling Motor operation with the complete HYBORAC was 399 minutes (nearly
seven hours), frost effectively bringing the motor to a halt even in the
presence of a suitable delta T value (3.5°C). The To-T values measured at
the top plate of the complete HYBORAC reached 32°C during daytime, with
delta T recovery efficiencies of 65 to 86%, whereas nighttime To-T values
exceeded delta T by no more than 2°C, and when they became smaller than the
delta T (with recovery efficiencies greater than 100%),the motor began to
exhaust heat generation inside the complete HYBORAC. From that point until
it stopped, nearly two hours elapsed."

*************************************************************************

REFERENCES:

1. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "XS NRG� Technology," Infinite Energy,
March-April 1996, Vol.2, No.7, pp.18-21.

2. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "Other Applications of the PAGD technology
Besides Energy Conversion," Infinite Energy, March-April 1996, Vol.2, No.7,
pp.22-27.

3. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, US Patent #5,416,391 "Electromechanical
Transduction of Pulses,"  May 16, 1995, Filed October 15, 1992. (Re-Printed
in Infinite Energy, March-April 1996, Vol.2, No.7, pp.27-35; Other patents
referenced: Paulo and Alexandra Correa, US Patent #5,449,989  "Energy
Conversion System," Sept. 12, 1995, Filed April 15, 1993; Paulo and
Alexandra Correa, US Patent #5,502,354  "    ," March 26, 1996,

4. Michael Carrell, "The Correa Invention: An overview and an investigation
in progress,"  Infinite Energy, May-June 1996, Vol.2, No.8, pp.10-14.

5. Michael Carrell, "The Correa PAGD Reactor: Errata and Supplement,"
Infinite Energy, July-August 1996, Vol.2, No.9, pp.33-36.

6. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "Metallographic & Excess Energy Density
Studies of  LGEN� Cathodes Subject to PAGD Regime," Infinite Energy, Dec.
1997 -Jan. 1998, Vol.3 No.17, pp.73-78.

7. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "The Reproducible Thermal Anomaly of the
Reich-Einstein Experiment Under Limit Conditons," Infinite Energy,
July-August, 2001, Vol.7, No.37, pp.12-21.

8. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "Consequence of the Null Result of the
Michelson-Morley Experiment," Infinite Energy, July-August, 2001, Vol.38,
pp.47-64.

9. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "The Sagnac and Michelson-Gale-Pearson
Experiments," Infinite Energy, Sept.-Oct. 2001, Vol.7, No. 39, pp.32-49.

10. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "A Modified Orgone Accumulator (HYBORAC) as
a Drive for a Low Delta-T Stirling Engine, Part-I," Infinite Energy,
Jan.-Feb. 2002, Vol.7, No.41, pp. 23-29.

11. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, "A Modified Orgone Accumulator (Complete
HYBORAC) as a Nighttime Drive for a Low Delta-T Stirling Engine, Part-2,"
Infinite Energy, Mar.-April. 2002, Vol.7, No.42, pp. 41-48.

12. "An Interview With Dr. Randell L. Mills of Blacklight Power,
Inc.,"Vol.3, No.17, Dec. 1997-Jan 1998, pp.21-35.

 
13. AS2-01 "Nonequivalence between work performed by charge against gravity
and the electric energy of the same 'charge gas'. The
gravitokinetoregenerative phenomenon," Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1,
Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com

14. AS2-01 "Addendum, concerning the pendulum formula as applied to the work
performed against gravity by the electroscopic leaf," Experimental
Aetherometry, Volume 1, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com


15. AS2-02 "Variation of the spontaneous discharge rate of atmospheric
electroscopes induced by electric and nonelectric, local and nonlocal,
hidden variables," Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1, Paulo and Alexandra
Correa, www.aetherometry.com
 

16. AS2-03 "A note on Reich's concept of an electroscopic OP and the concept
of a nonelectric kinetoregenerative power of the local atmospheric medium,"
Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com


17. AS2-04 "Electroscopic demonstration of reverse potentials of energy flow
able to draw kinetic and electric energies," Experimental Aetherometry,
Volume 1, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com


18. AS2-05 "The thermal anomaly in ORACs and the Reich-Einstein experiment:
implications for blackbody theory," Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1,
Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com


19. AS2-06 "Comparative study of the variation in the spontaneous discharge
rate of atmospheric electroscopes and electroscopes placed within 'orgone
accumulators,'" Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1, Paulo and Alexandra
Correa, www.aetherometry.com


20. AS2-07  "Decoding the thermal and nonthermal equivalents of the org
as a unit of aether energy," Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 1, Paulo and
Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com
 

21. AS2-08 "Photoinduced arrest of the spontaneous electroscopic discharge
and the Hallwacks experiment revisited," Experimental Aetherometry, Volume
2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com

 
22. AS2-09 "The allotropic atmospheric cycle of oxygen, ozone and water:
foundations of photo- and aetherochemistry," Experimental Aetherometry,
Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com

23. AS2-10 "The kinetoregenerative phenomenon and the AToS model of a
fundamental aether energy element capable of counteracting gravitons,"
Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com


24. AS2-11 "A light-irreducible split-aether continuum encompassing
production
of black (HFOT) and thermal (LFOT) photons," Experimental Aetherometry,
Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com


25. AS2-12 "AToS theory of the volt and the electron volt
- an aetherometric perspective on longitudinal electric waves," Experimental
Aetherometry, Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com


26. AS2-13 "(Re-)examination of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils,
Part 1: Experimental determination of its dual nature," Experimental
Aetherometry, Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com
 
27. AS2-14 "Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla
coils, Part 2:  Massfree and massbound nonelectromagnetic functions and
resultant characteristic electromagnetic frequency of the coil,"
Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2A, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com


28. AS2-15 "The aetherometric approach to solving the problem of
magnetism,"Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2B, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com
 

29. AS2-16 "Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla
coils, Part 3: Primary massfree electric-and-magnetic waves, secondary
massbound capacito-inductive waves, and tertiary electromagnetic waves,"
"Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2B, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com

30. AS2-17A "The indirect 'orgone effect' of Tesla radiation:
ambipolar aether and blackbody radiation spectra," "Experimental
Aetherometry, Volume 2B, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com

31. AS2-17B "Determination of the OR and DOR energies, frequencies and
wavelengths driving the atmospheric allotropic cycle of oxygen, ozone and
water," "Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2B, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com


32. AS2-17C "The cosmic background microwave radiation as evidence
for cosmological creation of electrons with minimum kinetic energy
and for a minimum of cosmic ambipolar massfree energy," Experimental
Aetherometry, Volume 2B, Paulo and Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com
 

33. AS2-25  "Modified Orgone accumulator (HYBORAC) as drive for
low delta T Stirling Engines (First published in Infinite Energy #41),
Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 4, Paulo and Alexandra Correa,
www.aetherometry.com


34. AS2-26  "Modified Orgone accumulator (complete HYBORAC)
as nighttime drive for low delta T Stirling Engines" (First published in
Infinite Energy #42), Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 4, Paulo and
Alexandra Correa, www.aetherometry.com

35.  Aspden, Harold, "The Reality of Perpetual Motion," Infinite Energy,
Vol.2, No.8, May-June 1996, pp.15-22.

36.  Aspden, Harold, "The Adams-Aspden Motor Patent," Infinite Energy Vol.2,
No.10,Sept.-Oct. 1996, pp.50-53.

37. Aspden, Harold, "Gravity and Its Thermal Anomaly: Was the Reich-Einstein
Experiment Evidence of Energy Inflow from the Aether?", Infinite Energy,
Vol.7, No.41, pp.61-65.

38. Mallove, Eugene, "Demonstrating Aether Energy," Infinite Energy, Vol.7,
No.41, January-February 2002, pp.6-8.

39. Brown, Paul M., "The Moray Radiant Energy Device: Operational
Parameters, Design Criteria, and Considerations," 1997, by Aztec Publishing,
PO Box 40214, Nashville, TN.

***END of Part 4***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 20:32:45 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA08315;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 20:29:46 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:29:46 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:31:46 -0700
Subject: The Correas - Part 3 of 4
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <B91B1562.2CCA%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"vtv9X.0.g12.foPzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47184
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

***The Correas - Part 3 of 4***

AS2-11    A light-irreducible split-aether continuum encompassing production
of black (HFOT) and thermal (LFOT) photons
__________________________________

As most Vortexians know, the history of the debate about the nature of light
is central to our present understanding of physics.  We normally think of
the battles over the wave-versus particle nature, culminating in the 20th
Century with quantum mechanical descriptions positing a mystifying duality.
But the subject is much more complex, involving as it does the imposition of
Special and General Theories of Relativity on an already indeterminate
historical situation.  The Correas propose a new model that reforms the
highly ambiguous picture, yet one should not expect that such a reformation
will be easy to assimilate! Remember, modern physics has asked us to
"believe" in many "impossible things" already, so it is not surprising that
when these more or less firm mental images from modern physics that we have
of what light and photons are -- or are not --are challenged, the new
picture does not go down easily. The Correas provide an historical overview
of the evolution of their theory, which is motivated in this monograph by
EXPERIMENT (see below). But first, their entire ABSTRACT quoted:

"From Descartes' Plenum of subtle matter defined by its luminous character,
through Spinoza's Light and its effects of Colour and Shadow, to the
classical electromagnetic theory of a luminiferous aether and modern ZPE
theories, the problem of the Aether has always been posed as inseparable
from that of Light, the action and transmission of Light. This often
entailed a direct reduction of the concept of the aether to that of Light -
as is the case with Spinoza -or to that of the electromagnetic field - as is
the case with ZPE theories. The situation with Descartes is different, as
with Maxwell and Lorentz, because here an implicit division is made between
the Aether as support system and Light as either a corpuscular or an
undulatory event. It was this concept of an aether as a support of Light
which SR made superfluous, 'liberating ' Light in the form of an
electromagnetic field of constant speed for all inertial mass, and
converting all Matter into opaque forms of Light. Thereby, however, Light
retained its primacy in physics and natural philosophy. One can contemplate
GR as an attempt to eliminate this lingering primacy of Light in SR, by
making Light heavy and thus subject to conditioning by the gravitational
field, with the result that the gravitational aether becomes a geometric
structure where the null intervals of Minkowski Spacetime become the curved
geodesics of GR 's Spacetime."

"But making Light heavy is only a way of either attributing the Dark (fuscum
subnigrum) to Matter (as was done with the missing mass) or reducing it to a
geometry of Light. The only philosopher to seize the Dark as the matrix from
which Light and Colour emerge, was Leibniz. His approach to the problem of
the vacuum ("there is no vacuum ") and his contention in First Truths that
neither Space nor Time are things but multiplicities of a continuum that
cannot be divided into points, intimate that the fundamental property of a
Plenum is not Light but Darkness."

"The Aetherometric Theory of Synchronicity (AToS) takes up Leibniz 's
contention that the aether is not Light but the Dark, which alone explains
how Light emerges when the Dark interacts with Matter to confer motion to
it. We review Reich 's orgonometric theory of Light, and in particular his
concept of an underlying aether excitation wave. Reich's theory is seen as a
precursor to the aetherometric concepts of Light and the Dark. AToS suggests
that Light is only a secondary pathway whereby energy returns back to the
Dark. The Light spectrum is subdivided into discontinuous (ionizing) and
epicontinuous (blackbody) portions, because only the latter results from the
interaction of Matter with the Dark, while discontinuous Light results from
the disintegration of Matter. But the Dark itself is not homogenous, being
split in kind between life-beneficial energy (OR)and life-inimical energy
(DOR). AToS holds that the Dark understood in this way designates the
electrically ambipolar massfree radiation that serves as one of the major
components of the Aether. It is this radiation which, through secondary
superimposition, condenses massbound charges, and interacts with the latter
to confer to them electrokinetic energy that, once shed, gives rise to
blackbody photons which return the energy back to the medium. The nature of
the underlying Dark continuum, and its very split in kind, becomes thereby
reflected in the biochemical and biophysical nature of blackbody Light,
which AToS splits into HFOT (high frequency optothermal - true blacklight)
photons and LFOT (low frequency optothermal) photons. HFOT Light is
indicative of an underlying DOR action just as LFOT Light is a sign of OR
activity. It is the epicontinuous spectrum of Light that betrays the
structure of the actual continuum of the electric aether. If the problem of
Light is not separable from the problem of the aether, of the Dark, the
latter, in turn, is not subsidiary to the problem of Light. As demanded by
Leibniz, we must think the Dark independently from Light - as much as from
Matter, even if it is the Dark that links both Light and Matter and
transmits the excitation waves that produce Light. This Dark is in a
permanent state of motion; it is a subtle imponderable energy that carries
no mass. One of the major challenges this process of conceptualization poses
to AToS is the understanding that the Dark does not just consist of
electrically ambipolar massfree radiation. Free electric wave energy forms
an electric continuum with definite frequency limits, but this continuum in
turn is only a differentiated part of a much greater aether energy continuum
formed by nonelectric massfree energy that one may designate as latent -
because its 'heat 'is insensible and thus invisible, or because it appears,
to modern physics at least, to lack any physical characteristics. The
challenge that future presentations will pose is the experimental
identification of the physical characteristics of latent aether energy, and
of the differentiation process that produces electrically ambipolar massfree
energy."

*EXPERIMENT: Confirming Reich's observations with evacuated tubes (Vacor
tubes) that indicated pulsatory activity of such tubes in response to a
charged electrostatic rod (observed both oscilloscopically and via the
recorder section of a Geiger -Muller tube).  IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY APPLIED
POTENTIAL TO THE VACUUM TUBE, some 2000 counts per second were recorded for
a single pass near the tube of the charged rod.  Lumination of the tube also
observed.  
*EXPERIMENT: Parallel pulsatory response to a charged electrostatic rod is
seen when the rod is passed between metal plates in air.
*EXPERIMENT: Electrostatic charged pendulum interacting with a rectification
circuit -- assessments indicate that this is a "direct gravito-electric
converter which does not exhaust the charge trapped in the dielectric
pendulum and employs the local gravitation field to both condense massbound
charge and impart to it electrokinetic energy, at the receiver plates." That
is, it is proposed that this experiment exhibits literally the creation of
electrons from the aether, as a surface condensation process, much as if the
apparatus converted gravitational into massbound electric energy.
*EXPERIMENTS: With Wimshurst electrostatic generators (0.5 meter from a
vacuum tube) and Tesla coils (1 meter from the tube), separately.
Conclusion: "Something in the vacuum is more  responsive or sensitive to
neighboring disturbances of electrostatic potential, than is a wire-pick up
under atmospheric conditions.

This brilliant monograph ends with this statement: "Lastly, we would like
the reader to note that the evidence we have provided for auto-electronic
pulse signatures as markers for the local flux of ambipolar electric
radiation is not a novel phenomenon per se. It goes unrecognized as such in
the literature, with respect -- in particular - to studies of lightning
signatures picked up by antennas, it has long been employed with some
realization of the longitudinal nature of the electric waves ultimately
causing the observed pulsatory (auto-electronic emission) signatures."
(References to two works, one by C. Yost (2001) and the other by T. Ogawa
(1982) are given.).



AS2-12    AToS theory of the volt and the electron volt
- an aetherometric perspective on longitudinal electric waves
__________________________

This is an analytic monograph that is required for one to understand the
subsequent monographs (AS2-13 to AS2-17C).  Drawing from unpublished volumes
of AToS, the Correas propose a variety of dimensional corrections to key
electrical concepts, as well as the aetherometric value of key physical
quantities.  The ABSTRACT reads:


"We succinctly submit basic aetherometric theoretical and mathematical
formulations for the electric functions of potential, charge, energy and
power, as they apply to either massbound (monopolar) and massfree
(ambipolar) forms of electricity. The microfunctional formulations are
rigorously derived with aetherometric tools, and they put into evidence the
common misconceptions of electric functions harking back to Maxwell.
Fundamental aetherometric equivalences are provided for the volt, the
electron-volt, the charge quantum e, Planck's constant, the electron
mass-energy and the Duane-Hunt wavelength we have identified. A new constant
is introduced (the Eta-Correa constant   ) and the potential of the electron
mass-energy is demonstrated as being equivalent to a wavespeed having the
exact value [Formula is given-EFM]. Electric charge is demonstrated to be a
linear momentum function, and the authors propose that all electric
potentials be understood as longitudinal wave-functions, whether produced by
standing or traveling waves, and whether they are constitutive of
mass-energy or kinetic energy. Such a standing voltage wave is identified as
intrinsic to the structure of the electron mass-energy."

A comment by H. Aspden is cited by the Correas up front:
"The origin of the electron must be a medium which is electrical in
character and no amount of abstract thinking can avoid this conclusion.
Relativity does not have the power to cross these boundaries either. The
language of the aether is not Relativity. It is the physics of the electron,
the properties of electric charge, which can reveal the secrets of the
aether medium." (from H. Aspden, Modern Aether Science", p.91)


AT THIS POINT THE CORREAS THEMSELVES PROVIDE A MOTIVATION AND A MAP FOR THE
NEXT FOUR MONOGRAPHS -- THEY HAVE MADE MY WORK EASY!  QUOTING THEM IN FULL:

"Monographs AS2-13and AS2-14:
The Dual Nature of the Energy Radiated by Tesla Coils, Parts 1 and 2
 
"Short Abstract 

"Tesla coils have now, for over a century, been objects of great wonder and
also mystery. Tesla himself employed their principle in his famous patent
for wireless power transmission. Yet, despite attempts by a few dedicated
experimenters (R. Hull, the Corums) who have proposed new theoretical
approaches to the operation of these devices, the coil has remained
essentially miscomprehended, precisely because it superimposes two distinct
oscillatory electric fields, one associated with massbound charge and the
other with massfree charge. Moreover, the coil outputs neither
electromagnetic radiation, nor an ion field. The basic demonstration of
these stunning facts is carried out in these monographs, where aetherometric
experimental and theoretical tools are employed to differentiate, on the
basis of fundamental physical effects, the ambipolar massfree radiation of
Tesla waves from the radiative effects of photons - whether ionizing, HFOT
or LFOT photons - as well as from the monopolar electric field effects of
ion fluxes or electrostatic charges. These reports establish, from basic
scientific facts, the existence of a longitudinal, massfree, electric
ambipolar form of energy radiation which is emitted from these coils, and
provide the fundamental tools for aetherometric analysis of their operation.
This leads the authors to a demonstration of the correct physical meaning of
such basic functions as inductance and the characteristic frequency of the
coil, laying the foundations for what will become the complete aetherometric
analysis of Tesla coils carried out in companion papers AS-15 and AS2-16.
The fundamental magnetic and electric frequency functions of the massfree
and massbound currents are identified. And an exact aetherometric proof that
the electric wavespeed of the ambipolar radiation known as Tesla waves is
not bound by c and typically exceeds it, is provided. These two essays -
AS2-13 and AS2-14 - are precisely what is needed before one can understand
longitudinal, ambipolar, massfree radiation as something distinct from
electromagnetism or photon energy."


AS2-13 "(Re-)examination of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils, Part
1: Experimental determination of its dual nature"
_______________

Might as well cite the larger Correa ABSTRACT in full here, since it makes
clear in
*EXPERIMENTS with Tesla coils what has been found:
 
"Experimental re-examination of the basic physical properties of the Tesla
coil does not confirm the commonly held notions that it radiates
"electromagnetic field energy", or that its loosely termed "electrostatic
radiation field" is in any way mediated by ions formed as a consequence of
the ionizing properties of the said electromagnetic radiation. Formally, we
demonstrate how the Tesla coil is neither a source of ionizing photons
(since it fails to discharge a positively charged electroscope, inside - or
outside - of its electric or 'electrostatic' field), nor a source of HFOT or
LFOT photons, including thermal ones (since it fails to trigger
photoelectric cells and its diathermic effect can be shown to be an indirect
one). It is also not a source of either negative or positive ions, given
that it can bipolarize a doped full wave divider. Yet, its 'electrostatic
field' charges most metallic (ungrounded) surfaces positively. To explore
further the nature of the Tesla waves, we tested the effect of the Tesla
coil output both with a proportional chamber and with a simple plate antenna
connected to a radiation ratemeter: whereas, like ionizing and HFOT photons,
Tesla waves triggered the proportional chamber, unlike either, and unlike
any other, type of "electromagnetic radiation", Tesla waves alone were
capable of triggering the ratemeter via the plate antenna, even at
substantial distances.

"Taken together, these results suggest that there is a complex process of
conversion of energy at work in these induction coils. The pulsed input to
the primary coil induces in the space of the closely coupled secondary a
conversion of the local aether energy into electric form. Aether wave energy
is tapped by the capacito-inductive properties of the secondary coil to
yield resonant, synchronized, superimposed, but distinct 'electric'
(electrocapacitative) and 'magnetic' (magnetoinductive) waves. These wave
functions properly constitute the massfree radiative field energy emitted by
the coil, but they also induce or assemble, within the secondary, an
alternate current of massbound charges, or electrons. In turn, this
alternate current of electrons in the secondary couples its own 'magnetic'
field to the electrocapacitative waves of the coil, to yield a proximal
field effect which is responsible for drawing valence and conduction charge
from metallic bodies. Beyond the limit of this proximal massbound field
effect, the radiated (distal) field of what is known as 'Tesla waves' is
composed solely of the 'electric' and 'magnetic' massfree waves radiated
from the coil, and is only able to draw charges from the conduction band of
metallic bodies. There are therefore quite distinct field effects of Tesla
coils. Unfortunately, the proximal field energy has been confusedly
assimilated to a "DC or electrostatic field", just as the distal field has
been confusedly assimilated to an "AC electromagnetic field". But both
fields possess "AC characteristics" and their real difference stems from the
fact that one is both proximal and distal, and composed of primary massfree
charges, while the other is only proximal, and the effect of the secondary
flux of massbound charges. All happens as if the these coils synthesized two
different kinds of electric fields, one proximal and massbound, and the
other massfree and responsible for all distal effects. It is the massfree
electric field that serves as the conduit for the massbound electric field,
since only the former exists both proximally and distally, and thus all
observable distal effects are due to it - such as the observed acceleration
of leakage rates in electroscopes placed at greater distances from the coil.
Conversely, it is the induced massbound charge field that is responsible for
the observed spontaneous positive charging of the electroscope in the
proximity of the coil, but since the radiated electric energy is not an
ionizing one, nor does it consist of ion emission, the observed proximal
monopolar (positive) charging of metal objects depends solely on the
metallic nature of the targeted bodies, not upon any supposed "DC
characteristic of an electrostatic field" output by the coil. In a parallel
fashion, the primary massfree charge field is no less electrical than the
proximal field - and thus fully undeserving of the epithet
"electromagnetic". 

"We can only speak of production of photons or the presence of
electromagnetic energy when the primary superimposition of the two
synchronous wave functions of the massfree energy field is resolved, at the
surface of the metallic bodies that it is emitted from or strikes, to yield
the "characteristic electromagnetic" or photonic frequency of the coil in
the form of damped waves. Light, and also heat, are therefore indirect
effects of Tesla waves, mere secondary emissions from metallic bodies
exposed to Tesla radiation. The true "electromagnetic AC component "must
therefore be understood as the secondary mechanical result of resolving the
superimposition of Tesla waves. From this vantage point, the so-called
'electrostatic' and 'electromagnetic' fields of the Tesla coil cannot be
thought of in the traditional manner where the former is the result of the
latter, as mediated by ionization, and where the latter alone constitutes
the primary emission. There is neither an electrostatic DC field nor an AC
electromagnetic field (let alone an ionizing one), and we demonstrate this
fact experimentally; both electrostatic and photonic fields are secondary
effects resulting from the interaction of metallic matter with resonant
'electric' and 'magnetic' waves, such that the superimposition of these
waves is subsequently resolved either to charge that matter or to induce it
to emit light and heat.

"Finally, basic aetherometric analysis formally demonstrates how the aether
wave functions, whether formed capacitatively or inductively, are not
limited at all by the photon limit wavespeed c, and thus cannot be thought
of, in any way, as subfunctions of an "electromagnetic" wave that propagates
transversely to the direction of its forward motion. Here, the critical
element of the analysis is the electric frequency term which, in the "vacuum
state", can be seen to exceed the blackbody radiation frequency limit   ,
thus indicating that the aether continuum may not be limited, in its upper
end, by the blackbody upper limit. This constatation is what originally led
us to the discovery of the aether electric spectra, to be presented in
companion reports."

Most importantly - if one desires to understand the difference between
ordinary electricity composed of the flux of monopolar massbound charges and
ambipolar electricity composed of massfree charges, this monograph provides
the essential experimental and theoretical distinctions between the two
types of electricity.  Likewise, if one wishes to understand similar
differences between radiative fields - whether electromagnetic, ion fluxes
or ambipolar, this is also the monograph where these distinctions are
meticulously carried out (see its Table 6, which is an immediate
eye-opener!) 

AS2-14    "Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla
coils, Part 2:  Massfree and massbound nonelectromagnetic functions and
resultant characteristic electromagnetic frequency of the coil"
_____________________

A continuation of AS2-13 that examines in great depth the so-called Tesla
equation, to find its correct aetherometric equivalence and a most peculiar
and orderly set of frequency resonances in the operation of any induction
coil, all of which are a function of the fundamental aetherometric frequency
(64*10E14) identified by the Correas as that which separates ionizing from
blackbody photons.

"....in the present communication, we complete our demonstration of how the
characteristic electromagnetic frequency of the coil, Fc, results from the
resolution of the electrocapacitative and magnetoinductive wave frequencies,
Fa and Fb, of electronic charges."

"We further propose that this process, in turn, is driven by the capture of
electric massfree energy by massbound charges, in the form of their kinetic
energy, and that it is the shedding of this kinetic energy that directly
gives rise to blackbody photon production."


Experimental Aetherometry, Volume 2B

AS2-15 "The aetherometric approach to solving the problem of magnetism"
_______________________

A non-experimental monograph that is based upon the data of existing physics
but, by being consistent, corrects fundamental or basic physical errors and
mistakes regarding the nature and dimensionalities of the magnetic field
(intensity and density), their curls, and cyclotron frequency, for both
massbound and massfree charges.  The gauss and the tesla, and their
equivalence, are redefined.  Most interesting, a complete fine structure
analysis of the wave interactions involved in the structure of the electron,
its kinetic energy, and the structure of massfree charge is directly
derived.  Scientists and engineers apparently have a lot to learn! A highly
shortened version of the Correas' abstract, giving salient points:
 
"Dimensional analysis of accepted fundamental functions of magnetic flux
density B (Maxwell's 'magnetic induction') and magnetic field intensity H
(Maxwell's 'magnetic force') exposes discrepant functions that are
systematically inconsistent... We begin by demonstrating how the gauss and
the tesla, which are supposed to be equivalent measures of the magnetic
field B in separate systems of units, are dimensionally inconsistent with
each other...The findings suggest a totally new way of treating the magnetic
permeability of a medium, and very different relations of the magnetic field
functions to the current density terms Jfree and Jbound. These functions are
systematized, for both massfree and massbound charges, and contrasted to
those of Maxwell and accepted electromagnetic theory. Lastly, we demonstrate
how the dimensionalities of H and B are the same...even if one is the
reciprocal of a radius and the other of a wavelength (composite or not), in
contrast to the electric field....which is effectively a frequency function
with dimensionality of t^-1."

***END of Part 3***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed May 29 21:05:17 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23323;
	Wed, 29 May 2002 21:04:39 -0700
Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:04:39 -0700
Message-ID: <016901c2078e$c5549380$6401a8c0 cs910664a>
Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin rogers.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <chiao physics.berkeley.edu>
References: <GWVQED01.W65 venus1.ttnet.net.tr>
Subject: Re: quadrupolar electromagnetic wave
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:02:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.101.98.221] using ID <crquin rogers.com> at Thu, 30 May 2002 00:04:03 -0400
Resent-Message-ID: <"T2OLh1.0.Ji5.MJQzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47185
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Hamdi,

Good question. I E-mailed Raymond Chiao sort of the same question a few days
ago and I'm still waiting for a reply.
Maybe we should invite him to join one of the forums. Sarfatti is raving
about his paper.

Chaio's Gravity Radio:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0204/0204012.pdf

The other thing was that if the size of the YBCO superconductor was to be
one inch, therefore the 12 GHz frequency was set high so that there would be
no (refraction?) of the gravity beam, but a lower frequency should also work
yet with more scattering. If your receiver is close range though it
shouldn't really matter. I can only suggest to just ignore the quadrature
aspect for now and try it with a common 2.45 GHz kitchen microwave klystron
and with any YBCO superconductors, if you have two of them. I have one, and
I've ordered another. If I had two right now, I would attempt it using a
common radar detector as part of the receiver and with some good Faraday
shielding. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I'd suggest that it's
a fairly easy experiment to set-up with mostly "off-the-shelf" components. .
and those are the best kind :-)

Best Regards,
Colin



----- Original Message -----
From: <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:44 AM
Subject: quadrupolar electromagnetic wave


> Hi,
>
> If you had interested on the recent paper "Superconductors as transducers
and
> antennas for gravitational and electromagnetic radiation", at the end of
the
> paper it is described a experiment setup with a figure:
>
> "Figure 2: Schematic of a simple, Hertz-like experiment, in which
gravitational
> radiation at 12 GHz is emitted and received using two superconductors. The
> "Microwave Source" generates quadrupolar electromagnetic radiation at 12
GHz
> ("EM wave"), which impinges on Superconductor A (a 1 inch diameter piece
> of YBCO, which is placed inside a dielectric Dewar containing liquid
nitrogen),
> and is converted upon reflection into quadrupolar gravitational radiation
("GR
> wave"). The GR wave, but not the EM wave, passes through the "Double
> Faraday Cages," i.e., two doubly-nested normal-metal Faraday cages. In the
> far field of Superconductor A, Superconductor B (also a 1 inch diameter
piece
> of YBCO inside a dielectric Dewar lled with liquid nitrogen) reconverts
upon
> re
> ection the quadrupolar GR wave back into a quadrupolar EM wave at 12
> GHz, which is then detected by the "Microwave Detector." The GR wave,
> and hence the signal at the microwave detector, should disappear once
either
> superconductor is warmed up above its transition temperature (90 K), i.e.,
after
> the liquid nitrogen boils away in either Dewar."
>
> It is said on line 3.
>
> "Microwave Source" generates quadrupolar electromagnetic radiation at 12
GHz
>
> On caption of figure 1 it is also mentioned of "quadrupolar EM plane
wave".
>
>
> A quadrupolar antenna could be something like this arrangement:
>
>     o-
>  o+    o+
>     o-
>
>
> But I did not found anywhere mentioning "quadrupolar electromagnetic
waves".
>
> Instead I found  "quadrupole EM resonators" which are used on mass
spectrography and
> "RFQ" which are used on linear particle accelearators.
>
> Do you know how should be a quadrupolar electromagnetic wave and how to
produce it?
>
> hamdi ucar
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 5/25/2002

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 30 10:08:38 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11389;
	Thu, 30 May 2002 10:04:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:04:59 -0700
X-Sent: 30 May 2002 17:04:24 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020530101918.031e1ea0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:04:18 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, "vortex l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: The Correas - Part 1 of 4
In-Reply-To: <B91B0FD8.2CC3%editor infinite-energy.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"m5TLL.0.tn2.xkbzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47186
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

>But several truck fleets do use the Taplin et al methodology and 
>apparently profit from it in greater mpg and cleaner exhaust.  Unlikely as 
>it seems, there could be some mistakes in these systems, but their evident 
>remarkable pollution abatement characteristics have merit in their own right.

If the process abates pollution or cleans the engine it probably improves 
gas mileage as well.


>We have had some arguments about this brashness and occasionally insulting 
>behavior, especially on those occasions where Jed has been found not to be 
>well-informed about the facts. And, Jed thinks that because some new 
>energy experiment observed in private has not
>been replicated elsewhere it might as well not be discussed or heard about 
>-- in particular, when it comes to non-CF excess energy reports.

Not "in particular." I apply the same standard to all claims: CF, non-CF, 
conventional, plasma fusion, or parapsychology for that matter. All claims 
must be independently replicated at high sigma. No exceptions are granted, 
except in rare cases such as the atom bomb when the size of the effect is 
so large and the number of witnesses so many there can be no doubt about 
the report.

This standard is not "insulting" or slanderous. It has been applied 
universally for the last 400 years to all claims, even those made by 
eminent scientists such as Darwin and Fleischmann. There is no reason why 
the Correas or Mills should be exempt. Until they pass this essential test, 
their claims are interesting but unproven.


>I totally disagree. When scientists, such as the Correas, begin to show 
>their experiments to others in private demonstrations, the reports of 
>these demonstrations have great significance.

Yes, they are significant -- or intriguing, anyway. But they prove nothing.


>But that does not mean that the observations by competent observers and 
>measurers have no significance, as Jed maintains.

I never said they have no significance. I said they prove nothing. Only 
replication can prove or disprove a claim.


>He has set up a completely irrational standard.  The history of science is 
>filled with small groups of people observing first-hand remarkable 
>phenomena (such as meteorite falls), reporting them, and then working to 
>enlighten others by publication and other means.

Meteorite falls cannot be replicated on demand. They must be independently 
observed -- as they were, eventually. Until they were, no one should have 
believed them.


>The Correas have done this in spades: A. By allowing others to test their 
>PAGD device and demonstrating Aetherometry inventions to others, B. By 
>publishing basic experiments and theoretical foundations of their aether 
>models, and C. By building an extensive patent portfolio.

"Allowing others to test" is laudable, but no substitute for independent 
replication. Theories and aether models can prove nothing. The experiment 
proves the theory, not the other way around. Anything can be patented, even 
a machine which does not work. Patents add no credibility to a claim.


>If, after hearing of these reports no groups take sufficient interest in, 
>say, building their own PAGD reactors, that is too bad, but it is the way 
>the world works right now.

Yes, it is too bad, but it means the claims are not proven. They are in limbo.

The world has always worked this way. No one bothered to replicate the 
airplane for five years. The Wrights were mainly to blame for that. The 
Correas are mainly to blame for the lack of interest in their claims.


>Aspden for one is quite clear that the PAGD patents give far more 
>information than is ordinarily given in patents, and this would lead 
>others to be able to replicate the PAGD if they chose to.

The Correas should do more to encourage replications. If I owned one of 
their gadgets, I would know how to encourage replications. I would soon 
have hundreds of thousands of people frantically working on the device. I 
would use the same methods that worked with the airplane in 1908, the 
transistor in 1952, and the personal computer in 1975. I would avoid the 
mistakes that prevented interest in the airplane from 1903 to 1908.


>So, since the mid 1990s there has been publicly available information to 
>reproduce PAGD physics, should anyone wish to do so.

Yet no one has done it. Something must be amiss. People generally do 
replicate valuable & interesting inventions, so the problem must be on the 
Correas' side, at least in part. CF was widely replicated by 1990, even 
though it was more difficult than the PAGD.


>I wish to openly investigate new scientific  measurements with a more 
>global impact on technology, while it is Jed's almost exclusive interest 
>to conduct business in the cold fusion field.

That's incorrect. I would be pleased to market the PAGD or any other 
gadget, as long as it works. I do not care where the energy comes from.


>I am very interested in learning as much about the truth of the workings 
>of this universe as I can -- its physics and life processes -- which I 
>believe the scientific establishment continues to obscure in gross fashion.

I have no idea whether the scientific establishment and conventional 
theories are right or wrong. In the case of CF, that remains to be seen. 
Hagelstein and others say that conventional theory can explain the results. 
I cannot judge.


>Cold fusion/LENR is only one example of how wrong and corrupt the 
>scientific establishment has become. Jed seems to think most textbook 
>physics and biology is as solid as a rock -- and going in the right 
>direction. I disagree.

I don't agree or disagree. As long as textbook physics and biology give the 
right answers and remain useful I will accept them. As Guy Murchie said, we 
still use Ptolemaic astronomy because "his basic calculations are the most 
convenient ever devised for navigation." (p. 85) If better physics or 
biology comes along, I will dump the present versions as quickly as I dump 
the old WordPerfect versions. Whether any set of answers are actually 
correct or not -- that is, whether they accurately reflect the true nature 
of the universe -- is a metaphysical problem of no interest to me. Frankly, 
I doubt anyone will ever establish this, and the issue has no practical or 
utilitarian value, so I could not care less about it.


>JR: It was not careless. It was a calculated act, the culmination of many 
>years of watching them in disgust. I stand by it. There are three 
>possibilities:
>
>1. They are liars and they have faked their results.
>2. They are insane.
>3. They are morally depraved monsters who withhold vitally important
>technology.
>***
>
>I find it astonishing and reprehensible that Jed did not include a 4th
>logical possibility:
>
>"4. They are sincere scientists who might have made a mistake or series of 
>mistakes such that all or part of their work could be in error."

I thought about enumerating this possibility but it seems unlikely, given 
the apparent clear-cut nature of their results. The only source of error 
that anyone has suggested would be RF, and most people I have spoken with 
now agree that is unlikely.


>But in that case, Jed suggests that since their business plans and 
>disclosures -- what little he knows of them (!) - are not to his liking, 
>because  they "withhold vitally important technology," the Correas are 
>"morally depraved monsters."

The statement has nothing to do with what I like. Their business plans have 
failed. The technology has not been developed, sold or adapted, or even 
replicated. It is not in use anywhere in the world. Therefore some other 
business plan or strategy is called for. Continuing with this strategy is 
tantamount to withholding the product from the market. If the product is 
real, this is like withholding a cure for AIDS for business reasons. Most 
people and lawmakers agree that would be morally depraved. If you have an 
effective AIDS cure and you are honestly unable to sell it, that it not 
depraved, it is inept. It is hard to believe anyone could fail to sell the 
PAGD, but who knows? Perhaps the Correas are so inept they could not sell a 
sandwich to a starving man.


>It is the same obsession to hate the Correas that prevented Jed from 
>considering still a 5th obvious possibility - that he may well be wrong in 
>all of the previous possibilities he enunciated, and the Correas may well 
>be right about their scientific findings and technologies without being 
>"morally depraved monsters."

No, depravity follows logically. If they are technically correct in their 
scientific findings they are depraved by definition, in my opinion. All 
statements about depravity are matters of opinion. Morality does not exist 
in nature. It is a social & human construct.


>. . . and if they don't do it, they are "morally depraved monsters." That 
>is a term I have not heard Jed apply even to the hot fusioneers at MIT.

Of course I have said this about the hot fusion program!


>I am appalled that Jed as an editor at I.E. would, without qualification, 
>undercut my seasoned judgment in my prolonged investigation and 
>publication of the Correas' work.

And I am appalled that any trained scientist or engineer would endorse a 
claim which is not been independently replicated yet. One might endorse or 
advocate independent testing. That's a different matter.


>Toward what end he thinks the Correas would even attempt to "fake their 
>results" escapes me . . .

The reasons are obvious to any businessman. Researchers everywhere have 
been known to fake results, even in conventional research recently at Bell 
Labs. If Mallove does not understand why people often fake results he 
should not attempt to verify results by visiting labs.


>Believe me, if anyone had been financially screwed by the Correas, I would 
>be among the first to hear about it.

That is not the issue, but in any case both the perpetrators and victims 
often keep financial fraud secret.


>How preposterous to imagine that such a mountain of well-integrated work 
>should be aimed at a fraudulent scheme!

It isn't preposterous. This does not follow. Most fraudulent schemes at 
places like Enron are backed by mountain of conventional, believable 
research or existing, conventional technology. Many legitimate companies do 
what Enron claimed they were doing.


>First of all, the Correas have already contributed MASSIVELY to society 
>with their research, their publications, and patents.

No, they have not. No one has replicated, and no machines based on this 
technology have been sold or used. Perhaps they have tried to contribute, 
but so far they have failed.


>I think it says more about society -- the same "society" that for 13 years 
>has organized itself toward
>the objective of killing off and ignoring cold fusion/LENR, no matter what 
>evidence or entreaties have been given to it.

"Society" is not a single unified entity. CF was not killed off. It was 
widely replicated by hundreds of scientists. The Correa effect should have 
been replicated by hundreds of scientists too, and I am sure it would have 
been, if they had presented it correctly in a way that would encourage 
others to replicate. Assuming it is real.


>This is not the first time that society has failed to accept or at least 
>properly investigate matters of overarching importance, as Jed well knows.

Indeed. And in all historical cases I have investigated, the inventors or 
discoverers were largely to blame. That is why I suspect the Correas are at 
fault. Their attitude and statements resemble those of the inventors and 
discoverers in the past who destroyed themselves with the Inventor's Disease.


>I think he is suggesting that the Correas might be "morally depraved 
>monsters" because their approach
>and terms for offering their inventions to society do not meet with his 
>approval.

No, because their approach and terms have manifestly failed to work. 
Society ignores them. If society embraced their invention, I would approve 
of their approach. Any approach that works is fine with me.


>These should be of the highest priority for society to investigate.

In that case, it should be the Correas' highest priority to encourage or 
facilitate the investigation.


>We are not just talking about the PAGD, which has been extensively 
>discussed in IE. We are talking about basic experiments that compel 
>reconsideration of the aether -- upon which the PAGD surely operates.

Until the PAGD it is independently replicated we cannot know whether it 
operates at all. Documenting something in a magazine is a valuable and 
laudable exercise, but no substitute for replication. Even if it turns out 
the gadget does work, that does not prove it has anything to do with 
aether. Storms and others have suggested alternative hypotheses.


>  If Jed had put any effort at all into downloading and
>examining the Correa monographs, he would have known otherwise.

I do not understand these monographs. Either they make no sense, or the 
technical content is over my head.


>Like Moray and so many others, they are determined to take this technology 
>to the grave
>with them. They will succeed in that, and nothing else."
>
>This is abhorrent and I completely reject the dangerous polemic of 
>dismissing historical research on devices that have been documented, 
>observed and testified to by many . . .

Documenting, observing and testifying are fine, but only replication 
counts. Moray and many others were not replicated, so they do not exist.


>JR: I do not believe Tesla or Reich either.
>
>This reminds me of Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg's assertion in the New 
>York Review of Books a few years ago that he did not "believe" in cold 
>fusion even though . . .

Obviously I do not believe Tesla or Reich because they have not been 
replicated! Except possibly by the Correas, but the experiment looks quite 
different to me. Anyway, we need five or ten replications.


>. . . as he jokingly remarked,  there was more reason to "believe" it than 
>stories from religious works.   Jed's ludicrous assessment of Reich and 
>Tesla has as much value as Weinberg's assessment of cold fusion, namely, 
>zero value.

My assessment is based on the 400 year old gold standard: replication. 
Weinberg has no standard.


>I do not know the identities of the scientists with whom Jed spoke about
>this, who allegedly "cannot make head or tail of them" . . .

Every scientist I have communicated with except Mallove and Aspden has told 
me they cannot make head or tail of the Correa web page material. That does 
not prove the material is meaningless, but it does indicate a failure to 
communicate.


>I have not taken a poll of other readers, and I could not care less about 
>polls to begin with, but I can assure you that the new terminology that 
>has been introduced by the Correas is very well defined and the arguments 
>are clear -- not always simple, but clear.

It is not clear to anyone else I know.


>Scientific arguments that utterly dismantle a prevailing physics paradigm 
>cannot be simple . . .

Of course they can! Evolution, thermodynamics and special relativity were 
quite simple. All of the examples in Kuhn's book were simple.

The rest of Mallove's message covers various technical issues such as RF, 
which are over my head. I still think it would be a good idea for the 
Correas to check for RF with a meter, and I think they should make every 
effort to separate the effects of solar heating from the putative aether 
effect. Their devices seems to deliberately mix the two together, which is 
a bad technique. Sunlight is unpredictable noise, difficult to measure with 
accuracy, and it seems they make no effort to measure it. They should be 
conducting these experiments in a mineshaft, not outdoors! That is, 
assuming, aether energy penetrates the earth the way neutrinos do. I would 
not know if that is what they claim or not.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu May 30 10:13:54 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15261;
	Thu, 30 May 2002 10:13:25 -0700
Resent-Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:13:25 -0700
From: Erikbaard aol.com
Message-ID: <16c.e5ab6b1.2a27b78a aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:12:42 EDT
Subject: CALTECH: RARE DEUTERIUM AMMONIA FOUND IN SPACE 
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10503
Resent-Message-ID: <"_Sib.0.Nk3.rsbzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47187
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All - 

I thought you might find this interesting, especially in that temperature 
plays a key role in this discovery.

THE FOLLOWING RELEASE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF 
TECHNOLOGY, IN PASADENA, AND IS FORWARDED FOR YOUR INFORMATION. 
(FORWARDING DOES NOT IMPLY ENDORSEMENT BY THE AMERICAN ASTRONOMICAL 
SOCIETY.)  Steve Maran, American Astronomical Society

Contact:        Robert Tindol
                tindol caltech.edu
                (626) 395-3631

Images at  http://www.submm.caltech.edu/cso/pictures
May 29, 2002

Astrophysicists announce surprising discovery
of extremely rare molecule in interstellar space 

PASADENA, Calif.-A rare type of ammonia that includes three atoms of 
deuterium has been found in a molecular cloud about 1,000 light-years 
from Earth.  The comparative ease of detecting the molecules means 
there are more of them than previously thought.

In a study appearing in the May 20 issue of the Astrophysical Journal 
Letters, an international team of astronomers reports on the contents 
of a molecular cloud in the direction of the constellation Perseus. 
The observations were done with the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory 
atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii.

The molecule in question is called "triply deuterated ammonia," 
meaning that each molecule is composed of a nitrogen atom and three 
deuterium atoms (heavy hydrogen), rather than the usual single 
nitrogen atom and three hydrogen atoms found in the typical bottle of 
household ammonia.  While not unknown on Earth, the molecules, until 
recently, were thought by experts to be quite rare-so rare, in fact, 
that the substance was considered too sparse to even be detectable 
from Earth.

But now that scientists have detected triply deuterated ammonia in 
the interstellar medium, they're still wondering why they were able 
to do so at all, says Tom Phillips, a physics professor at the 
California Institute of Technology, director of the Caltech 
Submillimeter Observatory, and leader of the Caltech team. No other 
molecules containing three deuterium atoms have ever been detected in 
interstellar space.

"From simple statistics alone, the chances for all three hydrogen 
atoms in an ammonia molecule to be replaced by the very rare 
deuterium atoms are one in a million billion," Phillips explains. 
"This is like buying a $1 state lottery ticket two weeks in a row and 
winning a $30 million jackpot both weeks.  Astronomical odds indeed!"

As for the reasons the molecules would exist in the first place, says 
Dariusz Lis, a senior research associate in physics at Caltech and 
lead author of the paper, the frigid conditions of the dense 
interstellar medium allow the deuterium replacement of the hydrogen 
atoms to take place.  At higher temperatures, there would be a 
back-and-forth exchange of the deuterium atoms between the ammonia 
molecules and the hydrogen molecules also present in the interstellar 
medium.  But at the frosty 10-to-20 degrees above absolute zero that 
prevails in the clouds, the deuterium atoms prefer to settle into the 
ammonia molecules and stay there.

The study is important because it furthers the understanding of the 
chemistry of the cold, dense interstellar medium and the way 
molecules transfer from grains of dust to the gas phase, Phillips 
explains. The researchers think the triply deuterated ammonia was 
probably kicked off the dust grains by the energy of a young star 
forming nearby, thus returning to the gas state, where it could be 
detected by the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory.

The study was made possible because of the special capabilities of 
the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory, a 10.4-meter telescope 
constructed and operated by Caltech with funding from the National 
Science Foundation.  The telescope is fitted with the world's most 
sensitive submillimeter detectors, making it ideal for seeking out 
the diffused gases and molecules crucial to understanding star 
formation.

In addition to the Caltech observers, the team also included 
international members from France led by Evelyne Roueff and Maryvonne 
Gerin from the Observatoire de Paris, funded by the French CNRS, and 
astronomers from the Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie in 
Germany.

The main Web site for the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory is at 
http://www.submm.caltech.edu/cso.

------------------------------------------------------------------
IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO CONTINUE RECEIVING PRESS RELEASES THAT ARE
FORWARDED TO THE NEWS MEDIA VIA THE AMERICAN ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY,
PLEASE REPLY ACCORDINGLY TO ANY INCOMING PRESS RELEASE, OR WRITE
TO Stephen.P.Maran.1 gsfc.nasa.gov.  Requests for referrals to experts
should be sent to the same address.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 03:50:29 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32306;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 03:47:30 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:47:30 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530500b91cf949b743 [12.21.208.167]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:54:29 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: quadrupolar electromagnetic wave
Resent-Message-ID: <"syo8L1.0.Wu7.1Jrzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47188
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 7:44 PM 5/29/2, hamdix verisoft.com.tr wrote:

>But I did not found anywhere mentioning "quadrupolar electromagnetic waves".
>
>Instead I found  "quadrupole EM resonators" which are used on mass
>spectrography and
>"RFQ" which are used on linear particle accelearators.
>
>Do you know how should be a quadrupolar electromagnetic wave and how to
>produce it?

I found some possibly useful information in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of
Electronics and Nuclear Engineering, Robert J Sarbacher, Prentice Hall,
EnglewoodCliffs NJ, 1959.  Below is a quote of relevant material.

Begin quote:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
*Multipole.*  Solutions of Laplace's equation (q.v), del^2 phi = 0 are of
the form

psi = [ar^L + b/r^(L+1)][(P_L)^M(cos theta)](C sin (M theta) + D cos (M theta))

where r, theta, and phi are the spherical polar coordinates; a, b, D, D are
constants, and L and M are integers (called quantum numbers). [Note - L and
M are lower case, but typed upper case here to avoid confusion between
lower case l and 1.]  Psi is an electric potential.  (P_L)^M(cos theta) are
the associated Legendre polynomials whose form depends on L and M.

If L=1 and M=0, psi reduces to the form

psi = (ar + b/r^2) cos theta   = az + b/r^2 cos theta

where z is the usual rectangular or cylindrical coordinate.  The first term
of the potential thus represents the a constant electric field along the z
axis, since del psi = -E.  The second term represents the potential of an
electric dipole.  If solutions are obtained for L=2 and higher values,
additional terms are obtained, corresponding to combinations of charges at
the origin called quadrupoles, octopoles, and higher order multipoles.  The
moments of of quadrupoles and higher order multipoles are tensors.
Multipoles are encountered in dealing with the electric fields of atoms,
molecules, and nucleii. [and apparently superconductors!]

*Radiation, multipole.*  The radiation field in free space may be expanded
into multipole fields, electric and magnetic, as well as into plane waves.
Each multipole radiation field is characterized by the numbers L and M, and
by its parity.  An electric multipole radiation, L, M, has a pure
transverse magnetic field and a parity (-1)^L.  A magnetic multipole
radiation, L, M, has a pure transverse electrostatic field and parity
-(-1)^L.  A single photon of multipole radiation has an energy h nu, and an
angular momentum L h-bar with component M h-bar in the Z direction.
Multipoles with Z = 0 do not exist; those with l=1 are termed dipole, and
with L=2, quadrupole, and so forth. The amplitudes of the various multipole
radiations emitted by a moving charge and magnet distribution are
proportional to the multipole moments of the distribution.  In nuclear
transition, these moments depend on the initial and final states.  Above: h
is Planck's constant; h-bar = h / (2 Pi); and nu is the frequency.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
end quote.

Now for my comments.

>From the above information, it appears that, though it may well be that
unshieldable "gravitational" type radiation might be achieved by use of
multipole radiation, useful for communications, the photons involved still
have the high energy to momentum ratio of c that plagues photon rocket
design, thus do not at first glance seem to have the hoped for potential
for propulsion applications.  However, if the radiation can be used to
produce a projected "static near field" upon a distant object, then it
might be used to create a momentum transfer beam that escapes the c = E/p
ratio problem.

To answer your question about how to generate quadrupole fields, it appears
that  accelerating (oscillating) multipoles is the way to do it.
Multipoles can consist of combinations of electrostatic or magnetic
dipoles.  Oscillating multipoles can be simulated by (electrostic) dipole
and (magnetic) loop antenna combinations.  I am no electrodynamicist, so it
would of course be good to get a professional opinion on this.  Just trying
to be as helpful as possible.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 12:38:31 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26881;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 12:35:09 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:35:09 -0700
From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <147.f49061e.2a292a39 aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:34:17 EDT
Subject: A detailed logical map of the multiverse of being and existence
To: Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com, Wangus@yahoogroups.com,
        thebishop usadatanet.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
CC: aelewis provide.net, ConexTom@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_147.f49061e.2a292a39_boundary"
X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50
Resent-Message-ID: <"Deb3w2.0.xZ6.j1zzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47189
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


--part1_147.f49061e.2a292a39_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A detailed logical map of the multiverse of being and existence

There are 7 regions to every imaginary space and object, or plane of 
existence and being which represent the 7 sides of a hyper dimensional magic 
cube, where the 8th side is the doorway to another cube or universe of 
existence and being ( a cube within a cube). The 7 regions are as follows:

    Multiverse
    Universe
    Galaxy
    Solar System
    Planet
    A Region a on Planet
    A Person or life form or a specific object in a region
    
Each of the above 7 regions in imaginary space of being has the following 
partitions of being:

    An infinite set of energy dimensions or ideal higher dimensions
    A infinite set of parallel universes per energy dimension 
        A infinite set of timelines per parallel universe
    7 rotary magnetic dimensions 60 degrees apart
    
An object or life form of being may exist and live in any of the above 
regions of imaginary space and partitions of any region of imaginary space.   
In order for an object or a life form to live in a specific region of pace, 
and partition of that region of space, the object must orient the energies of 
its atoms and cells to fit within the desired region and partition of space. 

For instance a life form such as a human being, may reorient their cells and 
atoms of their body to 1 of 7 magnetic orientations on a 360 degree circle 
which are 60 degrees apart by immersing the human being a set of energy waves 
or radio waves which change the magnetic orientations of the atoms and cells 
of the human being to correct magnetic region of space.  These magnetic 
regions of space may be called other dimensions of being by some life forms.  

Also a life form such as a human being may accelerate or change the 
frequencies of the time-space pulses around the human body with radio waves 
to move the human body into a faster timeline or another energy dimension or 
parallel universe. 

I believe that there are approximately 18 logical energy dimensions of being 
which may exist within any of the regions and partitions of space defined 
above as follows:

1. The eternal perfect ideal forms of all possible imaginary states of being 
and objects of being in environments of being. 
2. Chaos or unformed and unstructured energy
3. The state of creation and destruction of any energy or the beginning and 
end of any object or state of being. 
4. Ordered energy formations and partitions
5. Basic concepts of ordered energy such as goodness, neutrality, evil
6. Numerical concepts of ordered energy
7. Geometrical concepts of ordered energy
8. Linguistic concepts of ordered energy such as alphabets, languages, signs, 
and meanings
9. Sensory concepts of meaning such as feelings, emotions, and thoughts.
10.General Archetypes, histories, and memories of any culture or region and 
partition of space and being.
11. Specific Archetypes, histories and memories of any living being, state or 
object of being
12. Single cell objects and life forms such as bacteria and the basic 
elements. 
13. Primitive life forms such as plants, and non-tool using animals. 
14. Complex life forms such as tool using animals 
15. Complex life forms that are able to change timelines and time places 
mentally and physically by using mechanical tools or by using the mind and 
spirit naturally. 
16. Complex life forms that are able to change space regions and partitions 
of space regions in their bodies, and environments by using mechanical tools 
or by using the mind and spirit naturally.
17. Complex life forms that are able to change and transform energy regions 
in their bodies, and environments by using mechanical tools or by using the 
mind and spirit naturally.
18. Complex life forms that represent the collective group of a set of unique 
life forms. 


Each of the above 18 logical energy levels of being, may be broken down into  
sublevels of being that describe the complex structures and relations between 
each object and state of existence within the energy level. 



Respectfully,



Thomas Clark
Tom rhfweb.com
www.rhfweb.com\pesonal



--part1_147.f49061e.2a292a39_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>A detailed logical map of the multiverse of being and existence
<BR>
<BR>There are 7 regions to every imaginary space and object, or plane of existence and being which represent the 7 sides of a hyper dimensional magic cube, where the 8th side is the doorway to another cube or universe of existence and being ( a cube within a cube). The 7 regions are as follows:
<BR>
<BR>    Multiverse
<BR>    Universe
<BR>    Galaxy
<BR>    Solar System
<BR>    Planet
<BR>    A Region a on Planet
<BR>    A Person or life form or a specific object in a region
<BR>    
<BR>Each of the above 7 regions in imaginary space of being has the following partitions of being:
<BR>
<BR>    An infinite set of energy dimensions or ideal higher dimensions
<BR>    A infinite set of parallel universes per energy dimension 
<BR>        A infinite set of timelines per parallel universe
<BR>    7 rotary magnetic dimensions 60 degrees apart
<BR>    
<BR>An object or life form of being may exist and live in any of the above regions of imaginary space and partitions of any region of imaginary space. &nbsp;&nbsp;In order for an object or a life form to live in a specific region of pace, and partition of that region of space, the object must orient the energies of its atoms and cells to fit within the desired region and partition of space. 
<BR>
<BR>For instance a life form such as a human being, may reorient their cells and atoms of their body to 1 of 7 magnetic orientations on a 360 degree circle which are 60 degrees apart by immersing the human being a set of energy waves or radio waves which change the magnetic orientations of the atoms and cells of the human being to correct magnetic region of space. &nbsp;These magnetic regions of space may be called other dimensions of being by some life forms. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Also a life form such as a human being may accelerate or change the frequencies of the time-space pulses around the human body with radio waves to move the human body into a faster timeline or another energy dimension or parallel universe. 
<BR>
<BR>I believe that there are approximately 18 logical energy dimensions of being which may exist within any of the regions and partitions of space defined above as follows:
<BR>
<BR>1. The eternal perfect ideal forms of all possible imaginary states of being and objects of being in environments of being. 
<BR>2. Chaos or unformed and unstructured energy
<BR>3. The state of creation and destruction of any energy or the beginning and end of any object or state of being. 
<BR>4. Ordered energy formations and partitions
<BR>5. Basic concepts of ordered energy such as goodness, neutrality, evil
<BR>6. Numerical concepts of ordered energy
<BR>7. Geometrical concepts of ordered energy
<BR>8. Linguistic concepts of ordered energy such as alphabets, languages, signs, and meanings
<BR>9. Sensory concepts of meaning such as feelings, emotions, and thoughts.
<BR>10.General Archetypes, histories, and memories of any culture or region and partition of space and being.
<BR>11. Specific Archetypes, histories and memories of any living being, state or object of being
<BR>12. Single cell objects and life forms such as bacteria and the basic elements. 
<BR>13. Primitive life forms such as plants, and non-tool using animals. 
<BR>14. Complex life forms such as tool using animals 
<BR>15. Complex life forms that are able to change timelines and time places mentally and physically by using mechanical tools or by using the mind and spirit naturally. 
<BR>16. Complex life forms that are able to change space regions and partitions of space regions in their bodies, and environments by using mechanical tools or by using the mind and spirit naturally.
<BR>17. Complex life forms that are able to change and transform energy regions in their bodies, and environments by using mechanical tools or by using the mind and spirit naturally.
<BR>18. Complex life forms that represent the collective group of a set of unique life forms. 
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Each of the above 18 logical energy levels of being, may be broken down into &nbsp;sublevels of being that describe the complex structures and relations between each object and state of existence within the energy level. 
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>Tom rhfweb.com
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\pesonal
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_147.f49061e.2a292a39_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 13:39:15 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20031;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 13:35:29 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:35:29 -0700
Message-Id: <v01530500b91d882d14be [12.110.74.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:42:29 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: quadrupolar electromagnetic wave
Resent-Message-ID: <"0c-MW1.0.vu4.Hwzzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47190
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 7:44 PM 5/29/2, hamdix verisoft.com.tr wrote:

>But I did not found anywhere mentioning "quadrupolar electromagnetic waves".
>
>Instead I found  "quadrupole EM resonators" which are used on mass
>spectrography and
>"RFQ" which are used on linear particle accelearators.
>
>Do you know how should be a quadrupolar electromagnetic wave and how to
>produce it?

I found some possibly useful information in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of
Electronics and Nuclear Engineering, Robert J Sarbacher, Prentice Hall,
EnglewoodCliffs NJ, 1959.  Below is a quote of relevant material.

Begin quote:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
*Multipole.*  Solutions of Laplace's equation (q.v), del^2 phi = 0 are of
the form

psi = [ar^L + b/r^(L+1)][(P_L)^M(cos theta)](C sin (M theta) + D cos (M theta))

where r, theta, and phi are the spherical polar coordinates; a, b, D, D are
constants, and L and M are integers (called quantum numbers). [Note - L and
M are lower case, but typed upper case here to avoid confusion between
lower case l and 1.]  Psi is an electric potential.  (P_L)^M(cos theta) are
the associated Legendre polynomials whose form depends on L and M.

If L=1 and M=0, psi reduces to the form

psi = (ar + b/r^2) cos theta   = az + (b/r^2) cos theta

where z is the usual rectangular or cylindrical coordinate.  The first term
of the potential thus represents a constant electric field along the z
axis, since del psi = -E.  The second term represents the potential of an
electric dipole.  If solutions are obtained for L=2 and higher values,
additional terms are obtained, corresponding to combinations of charges at
the origin called quadrupoles, octopoles, and higher order multipoles.  The
moments of quadrupoles and higher order multipoles are tensors.  Multipoles
are encountered in dealing with the electric fields of atoms, molecules,
and nucleii. [and apparently superconductors!]

*Radiation, multipole.*  The radiation field in free space may be expanded
into multipole fields, electric and magnetic, as well as into plane waves.
Each multipole radiation field is characterized by the numbers L and M, and
by its parity.  An electric multipole radiation, L, M, has a pure
transverse magnetic field and a parity (-1)^L.  A magnetic multipole
radiation, L, M, has a pure transverse electrostatic field and parity
-(-1)^L.  A single photon of multipole radiation has an energy h nu, and an
angular momentum L h-bar with component M h-bar in the Z direction.
Multipoles with Z = 0 do not exist; those with L=1 are termed dipole, and
with L=2, quadrupole, and so forth. The amplitudes of the various multipole
radiations emitted by a moving charge and magnet distribution are
proportional to the multipole moments of the distribution.  In nuclear
transition, these moments depend on the initial and final states.  Above: h
is Planck's constant; h-bar = h / (2 Pi); and nu is the frequency.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
end quote.

Now for my comments.

>From the above information, it appears that, though it may well be that
unshieldable "gravitational" type radiation might be achieved by use of
multipole radiation, useful for communications, the photons involved still
have the high energy to momentum ratio of c that plagues photon rocket
design, thus do not at first glance seem to have the hoped for potential
for propulsion applications.  However, if the radiation can be used to
produce a projected "static near field" upon a distant object, then it
might be used to create a momentum transfer beam that escapes the c = E/p
ratio problem.

To answer your question about how to generate quadrupole radiation, it
appears that accelerating (oscillating) multipoles is the way to do it.
Multipoles can consist of combinations of electrostatic and/or magnetic
dipoles.  Oscillating multipoles can be simulated by (electrostic) dipole
and (magnetic) loop antenna combinations containing oscillating currents.
I am no electrodynamicist, so it would of course be good to get a
professional opinion on this.  Just trying to be as helpful as possible.

Following is some selected old vortex quotes and parts of my responses
which you may also find relevant to this issue.

>Impulse Gravity Generator Based on Charged YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-y} Superconductor with
>Composite Crystal Structure
>
>Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
>Comments: LaTeX, 32 pages, 7 figures in separated GIF and JPG files
>Subj-class: General Physics
>
>  The detection of apparent anomalous forces in the vicinity of high-Tc
>  superconductors under non equilibrium conditions has stimulated an
>  experimental research in which the operating parameters of the
>  experiment have been pushed to values higher than those employed
>  in previous attempts. The results confirm the existence of an
>  unexpected physical interaction. An apparatus has been constructed
>  and tested in which the superconductor is subjected to peak currents
>  in excess of 10^4 A, surface potentials in excess of 1 MV, trapped
>  magnetic field up to 1 T, and temperature down to 40 K. In order to
>  produce the required currents a high voltage discharge technique has
>  been employed. Discharges originating from a superconducting
>  ceramic electrode are accompanied by the emission of radiation
>  which propagates in a focused beam without noticeable attenuation
>  through different materials and exerts a short repulsive force on small
>  movable objects along the propagation axis. Within the measurement
>  error (5 to 7 %) the impulse is proportional to the mass of the objects
>  and independent on their composition. It therefore resembles a
>  gravitational impulse. The observed phenomenon appears to be
>  absolutely new and unprecedented in the literature. It cannot be
>  understood in the framework of general relativity. A theory is proposed
>  which combines a quantum gravity approach with anomalous vacuum
>  fluctuations.
>

If real, then this IS a major advancement with regard to space drives,
PROVIDED and assumed that the force obeys Newton's second law, i.e. that
there is an eqaul but opposite force applied to the generator itself.  If
force can be applied in a a beam-like fashion then Paul Hill of NASA in his
book *Unconventional Flyining Objects* had it exactly right.  Such a force
can be used to eliminate air resistance and to push against the earth or
sun in order to achieve propulsion.  He deduced the existence of such a
force from his analsis of UFO sightings, at least one of which was a very
remakable sighting of his own.


One thought I had was the possibility that some kind of energy confining
tube is being created by the device.  This would account for the narrow
beam and lack of 1/r^2 dispersion.  However, is some kind of energy
confinement can be generated, then such a packet might be capable
accumulating zero point energy?

It is an interesting and well known effect that when a potential is applied
across a short gap between two superconductors that electrons will tunnel
back and forth across the gap in enormous but synchronized quantities,
thereby creating radio wave emission that dissipates energy from the gap as
if it were a resistor, yet without creating heat.   I this case there may
be tunneling over a somewhat longer distance, due to the enormous voltage
gradient, and it may also be that the gas particles near the face of the
superconducor plate are points of condensation for the electrons.  When
such electrons tunnel, they tend to do so in pairs.   This effect would
create a longitudinal wave front eminating from the superconductor face.
It still remains to how out how such eminations of parallel EM planes can
trap energy from the universe, or otherwise violate COE.

At 5:27 PM 8/8/1, Robert Stirniman wrote:
[snip]
>Hi Horace. Way interesting.
>Do you have any references handy about this?
>Thanks.
>Robert Stirniman


Yes.  Any reference to the AC Josephson effect will help.  Specifically, I
have *Superconductors, Conquering Technologies New Frontier*, Randy Simon
and Andrew Smith, Plenum Press, 1988, p53, ff.

There are some amazing numbers involved in the AC Josephson effect.  A
millionth of a volt produces an oscillation across a Josphson Junction at
500 MHz. That is over a distance of say 10^-9 cm, or a gradient of 10^-6 V
/ 10^-9 m = 10^3 V/m.  TO speculate, given that Podkletnov's gradient is on
the order of 10^6 V/m, the frequency might be 500 MHz x 10^3, or 5x10^11
Hz, or a wavelength of 0.06 cm.

However, I suspect the power supply doesn't ever actually apply the full 2
MV to the SC surface, but rather that the quickly established low
resistance plasma prevents much of a voltage drop from forming across the
vacuum gap.

If the appx. 10^6 V/m gradient Podkletnov used is right, then there is no
need to operate at in the megavolt range at all.  A smaller gap, say 1 cm
operating a 10^4 V should work as well.  Further, since the full 2 MV may
never have actually been applied to the gap in Podkletnov's experiment,
much less voltage may suffice.  It seems to me the important thing is to
have the anode (the target electrode) transparent to the longitudinal
waves.  Perhaps a grid of some sort would do a good job of this.  Also, the
gas most provide electron tunneling destination sites, and apparently argon
is good for this if my speculation is anywhere near right. Therefore the
gas pressure must be adjusted to the gradient so as to keep the avg.
molecular spacing of the gas at approximately the typical tunneling
distance.  Setting the tunneling distance (by adjusting gas pressure)
approximately equal to the AC Josephson wavelength (a function of the
gradient) might be useful as well.

Of additional interest, it is not surprising that matched superconductors
can reflect and synchronize to transform plane waves, a form of multipole
wave, since quantum coherence guarantees synchronization over a wide area,
and thus a wide arrray of multiple synchronized poles.

>PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
>The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
>Number 551  August 8, 2001   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and
>James Riordon
[snip]
>HIGH TEMPERATURE SUPERCONDUCTORS MIGHT BE
>VIBRATIONAL after all, at least in part.  Low temperature (4 K)
>superconductors operate according to the Bardeen-Cooper-
>Schrieffer (BCS) viewpoint.  Electrons pair up and enter into a
>single unified quantum state through the agency of vibrations of
>the underlying lattice of atoms, an occurrence which can also be
>described in terms of the exchange of phonons.  This BCS
>mechanism is inherently fragile and not expected to survive in the
>warmer, 100-K, regime where high temperature superconductors
>operate.  Therefore new tests conducted at SLAC's Stanford
>Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory (SSRL) and LBL's Advanced
>Light Source (ALS) came as a surprise.  Researchers shot carefully
>selected photons into various cuprate superconductor samples and
>observed a kink in the energy spectrum of the ejected electrons, a
>kink which they associate with an underlying electron-phonon
>resonance, suggesting some kind of BCS behavior at work.
>(Lanzara et al., Nature, 2 August 2001.)


Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 13:42:47 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21488;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 13:39:59 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:39:59 -0700
Message-ID: <002b01c208e3$607453f0$dc2c87d9 CORNWALL2>
Reply-To: "remi" <remi corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk>
From: "remi" <remi corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Paper
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:40:17 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C208EB.C154EBA0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Resent-Message-ID: <"PNfVe2.0.eF5.V-zzy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47191
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C208EB.C154EBA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear vortex,
Your comments would be appreciated. I know the site is basic, we'll sort =
that out in next few weeks. Some of the pictures are big.
http://www.corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk/home.htm

Due to the volume of traffic on vortex I might unsubscribe so contact me =
by my email.
Remi.

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C208EB.C154EBA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear vortex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your comments would be appreciated. I =
know the site=20
is basic, we'll sort that out in next few weeks. Some of the pictures =
are=20
big.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.corn-wall.freeserve.co.uk/home.htm">http://www.corn-wa=
ll.freeserve.co.uk/home.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Due to the volume of traffic on vortex =
I might=20
unsubscribe so contact me by my email.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Remi.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C208EB.C154EBA0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 14:53:07 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20283;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 14:49:48 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:49:48 -0700
X-Sent: 31 May 2002 21:49:13 GMT
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020531174404.03265630 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com>
X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:49:10 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Munz lectures on ABS at ICCF-9
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Resent-Message-ID: <"-8zzx3.0.ky4.x_-zy" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47192
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

An unexpected and very interesting seminar was presented at ICCF-9 Prof. W. 
D. Munz, at the Materials Research Institute, Sheffield Hallam University, 
in England. See:

http://www.shu.ac.uk/schools/research/mri/surfeng/hhpub.htm

http://www.shu.ac.uk/schools/research/mri/sitemap.htm

Munz knows a great deal about thin films and Arc Bond Sputtering (ABS) 
technology, used to make ultra-hard machine tools and cutting tools with 
multiple layers of thin film metals. After describing the present research 
at the Institute, he speculated about the prospects for making cold fusion 
cathodes such as alternating Pd and Ni. No one has produced such a 
combination because there is no need for it, but based on the known 
properties of Pd and Ni, he thought they could make a very robust structure.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri May 31 16:46:18 2002
Received: (from smartlst localhost)
	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32694;
	Fri, 31 May 2002 16:43:00 -0700
Resent-Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:43:00 -0700
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Message-ID: <4b.1e03177d.2a29645f aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:42:23 EDT
Subject: Re: The Correas - Part 4 of 4
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509
Resent-Message-ID: <"sFPnj.0.m-7.4g0-y" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/47193
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I'm into alternate energy but I do not understand why Mallove is so posessed 
by the Correas.  They speak goppley goop.  I was at one of his lectures.  It 
was dull boring.  He went on and on about conspirsices.  "Forget the 
conspircies, show me your stuff." I thought.

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat 
