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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Tesla's power receiver
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On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> Bruce A. Perreault responds:
> 
> Bill, surely you attended one of my lectures presented at last
> weeks Exotic Research conference.

Yes, but similar devices were discussed in about 1992 on Keelynet.  It was
a patent for a high frequency resonator connected to a longwire antenna
suspended a few feet above the ground.  A spark gap and power supply was
part of it.  Supposedly when conditions were just right, large amounts of
excess energy were produced, but no theory was given.  Back then I had no
clue as to how it might work.

What was the device I saw at the conference?  You described what it does,
but didn't give details.  Was it powered by a high-freq AC supply, or by
DC?

> The radiant energy device is in tune with "storm frequency." This is
> right around 500Khz.

That might be the key.  If these "spark driven antenna" devices will only
work at certain frequencies, the inventors might occasionally get certain
devices to work sometimes, but might not know why.

However, my understanding is entirely in terms of conventional
electronics.  If there is some unorthodox physics involved, then a
conventional explanation must fail.

In thinking further about the DC version of resonant reception, I see that
the principle is much simpler: just receive the incoming microamps across
a pre-charged antenna.  If a large antenna is collecting a few microamps
at 1V, we draw off a few microwatts. (Use an electrical load with a high
resistance to keep the antenna from discharging.) Instead, if we charge
the same antenna to 1 MV, then we can draw off watts.  (If positive
current is flowing down from the sky, then the antenna polarity must be
made positive in order to increase the energy flow.)  Same current,
increased voltage, increased energy flow.  

But if we electrify the antenna, won't it repel the incoming charge?  If
the ionosphere's potential is up in the megavolts, then charging our DC
receiver antenna entirely cannot prevent the charge flow as long as the
antenna's total area is fairly large.

Placing negative ion generators on the antenna would lower the resistance
of the air, which would create increased energy collection as long as the
voltage drop within each ion generator was small compared to the antenna's
potential to ground. Tesla's devices apparantly used a process like this, 
making ions while avoiding outbreaks of arcing.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 02:25:44 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Inductance Comparisons
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Many folk have heard me talk about this Binary Resonant System or BRS as I
acronym it. This was the result of giving up the research on a copper
magnetic motor which was deemed impractical.

Of this it was discovered how huge air inductance coils used in newman
devices from the early days could produce this ringing effect whereby the
frequency was far in excess to that produced by earlier methods made by
tesla that are founded on the quarter wavelength theory. In the newman coils
this ringing was accomplished by interupting a dc induction arc via
commutation and somehow this ringing either recharged the battery source or
aided in the magnets rotation or both.

Back then 10 years ago the free energy field was wide open concerning
gullibility. Then is then, and now is now. When you take out the garbage you
dont always throw everything away.

So it is time to hear more remarkable things. In getting an exposure of the
BRS idea over a year on the internet I have had about 1600 hits on the
message board, not a remarkable number at all. So now it is time to present
a scientific paradox once again to confound the thinkers of our time. So as
Paul Harvey says, Here is the rest of the story...

The BR system was initially not discovered as a high induction system as
used with newman size coils. It was reasoned out that two pathways existed
between unobvious potentials and this experimentation first found fruit as a
method to light flourescent bulbs without a ballast or transformer from the
120 v ac wall voltage. It was then that it was understood that both pathways
were schematically the same and the idea was then attempted. Before that it
was not known by me  how two series resonant phases 180 out of phase would
react when connected at their midpoints. This kind of system was one of many
500 foot 18 gauge coils plugged straight into the wall and flourescents in
series across the midpoints of the two series resonant high amperage
circuits. Simple radio shack connector leads connected these coils of 18
gauge wire and I knew or thought that if any interuption occured across the
midpoints I would have a meltdown of the connecting wires since an open
condition would give maximum amperage conduction determined by the
resistance of the coils themselves.

It was only later when I applied the idea to the safer 56 Henry coils that I
discovered the high frequency effect far superior to that used by the
primitive arcing effects employed by the DC commutator of a newman coil.
That effect broadcast great radio interference and this pinging had to be
continually made in his invention by every individual arcing on the
commutator, yet the BRS method produced a continual high frequency
oscillation of ringing that barely even bled off as EM radiation in
comparison!

Now the applications I see for this ringing are entirely different from that
of a copper magnetic motor as Newman envisioned by his original inspiration,
but that is not the subject of THIS post.

The original inductance of the high amperage BRS was about .2 Henry. It will
supply about 760 volts AC on open switch condition, something I avoided
before by never opening the switch because it would have melted all the
connecting wires between coils. Thus to resurrect this system means the
painstaking soldering of 18 gauge connections between about 30 or so coils.

This needs to be done to see if the same effect that occurs on the 56 H BRS
will occur on the .2 H BRS. WHEN AN ARC GAP IS USED AS THE LOAD TO PRODUCE A
HIGH FREQUENCY EFFECT. Because of the fact that the high amperage BRS was
initially considered dangerous for a meltdown of connecting wires between
coils back in 95, and the fact that this high frequency effect had not been
discovered at that time, and because of the fact that I am less cautious now
about dealing with higher amperage currents going to ground; all of these
facts mean the next exploration must definitely go in this direction. This
is the meaning of TWO GROUNDS, to determine how much influence can be
obtained from a single post to ground using a high amperage BRS with each of
the posts as terminals to earth.

Of course the detractors have said I cannot make a high frequency system
with a mere 760 volts predicted from this high amperage BRS. They say it
takes a couple thousands of volts. I dont think so. I use long copper bars
separated a very small distance along their lengths for the air gaps. Again
we have the know it alls that once they have seen the construction of an arc
gap used on a tesla primary: they think all these arc gaps must look the
same way according to this conditioned thinking...

In fact the arc gaps I am talking about have absolutely nothing to do with
the noisy great white discharges present in a tesla primary arc gap. It
aint, it even isnt remotely the same critter. The arcs I am speaking of are
automatically self quenching,almost totally quiet, and of a purple or blue
colour of very short length because the terminals or connections can be
placed that close together in the first place and not act as a dead short
which would happen on a tesla primary because of its inherent quenching
problems.

Now that the bitching is out of the way I can make my point. If the .2 H BRS
of 760 volts is insufficient to enable the starting mechanism of arcing, I
can connect it in parallel with the 56 H BRS. With that system connected to
a small 440 volt transformer it will supply 12,000 volts across its load at
open connection, which in this case only means that the arc gap it uses to
do its gig now becomes that same arc gap for the .2 system. The high voltage
system then becomes the spark igniter for the lower voltage,higher amperage
.2 H BRS.

HOWEVER AT THE MOMENT THAT SPARK OCCURS WE HAVE THE INSTANCE OF A VERY HIGH
INDUCTANCE BEING THEN IN PARALLEL WITH A LOW INDUCTANCE. If each of these
systems were even remotely connected in parallel prior to this arcing the
inductance laws of being in parallel necessitates that their equivalent
inductance in parallel would be very low, so low that this use as an
initiator voltage would be wiped out.

So only experimentation gives the final word on how things work. A high
amperage, low induction BRS gives us one possibility. A high voltage, high
induction and low amperage system gives another possibility.

But schematically if we combine these two in parallel, it is like combining
a dominant and recessive gene in biology, and it sinks to the lowest level.

If anyone doesnt fathom what I am talking about, go to your referance book
that contains the equation for inductances in parallel, and 56 h in parallel
to the lower value of .2 h becomes as a whole about .2 h and not a middle
value of 25 h. This means that two different BRS can never be combined until
exactly the moment they are intended to act in combination.

This means that the high q that makes the high voltage on the high induction
BRS will never exist if it is not kept in isolation from its cousin, another
BRS of comparitive low induction<, and high amperage.

What this means if the problem goes that far, even the sharing of a
simultaneously used arc gap will shut the high voltage system down by making
the two systems appear in parallel too soon, but we will never fathom this
because nothing will work to begin with, but however this very reasoning
will give a reason why it didnt work.

If such a prognosis is reached by experimentation, most people will give up.
However the final endeavor to achieve this idea cannot be dismissed without
the reverse application of a rotary arc gap whereby this simultaneous
application of high voltage/high amperage to the load or arc gap as exists
in this scenario by the coordinated on/off functions of this device can
achieve its intended objective.
 Now I wonder if there is any foolish english teachers who would care to
find the verb in that last sentence and perhaps diagram it out for the
students of language. I have tried to diagram things according to a
different understanding.

Sincerly HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 07:12:56 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <e4d0e0fa.24d5afa9@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 10:11:53 EDT
Subject: I come back again...
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

Nice to speak with you again, I am just come back from my summer holidays,
now, I am ready to go further in the development of new fascinating 
technologies...
I need a few time to read all the Emails..my mailbox is completly 
overloaded...

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 09:55:01 1999
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From: Trevmaniac@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:53:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Inductance Comparisons
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How do I access your message board or web site that discusses BRS?

Trev

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 11:25:08 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Inductance Comparisons
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On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:53:49 EDT, Trevmaniac@aol.com wrote:

> How do I access your message board or web site that discusses BRS?
> 
> Trev
> 
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 12:26:28 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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On Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:24:42 PDT, Harvey Norris wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:53:49 EDT, Trevmaniac@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > How do I access your message board or web site that discusses BRS?
> > 
> > Trev
> > 
> http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201
> 
> 
Also see 4 phase electrical system on Rowland BBS
http://bbs.rowlandnet.com/cgi-bin/WebX?7@^273132@.ee76eaf/7





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 13:19:40 1999
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Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 16:23:33 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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William Beaty wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> 
> > Bruce A. Perreault responds:
> >
> > Bill, surely you attended one of my lectures presented at last
> > weeks Exotic Research conference.
> 
> Yes, but similar devices were discussed in about 1992 on Keelynet. It was
> a patent for a high frequency resonator connected to a longwire antenna
> suspended a few feet above the ground.  A spark gap and power supply was
> part of it.  Supposedly when conditions were just right, large amounts of
> excess energy were produced, but no theory was given.  Back then I had no
> clue as to how it might work.


Keelynet was not even online in 1992. I am assuming that you are
referring to the BBS. The Patent that I know of that even comes
close is United States Patent No. 253,765 Prentice Sept. 15, 1925
This patent is tuned to the 500Khz. storm frequency. This patent
refers to this energy as "earth currents." This patent is a crude
form of Moray's radiant device. The Prentice patent has many 
disavantages. The greatest drawback of this patent is the half
mile length of antenna being supported six inches above the 
ground. The input of this invention is stated to be 500 watts.
Even though the output is claimed to be around 3,000 watts, this
representing a six times gain vs. input, it is not self-sustaining.
It is apparent that there is great loss in this system because
spark-gaps are used to generate the high-frequency required to
tune into these "earth currents."


> 
> What was the device I saw at the conference?  


* The device at the conference was a "Proof Of Concept (POP)" 
radiant energy device. It was not self-sustaining but was the 
first step in introducing the concept. I will be working on 
building a POP radiant device that will light up a bank of light
bulbs and possibly be self-sustaining for future conferences. 


>
> You described what it does, but didn't give details.  


* The details are in my Radiant Energy Research Manual.
This is a free download from my website. 

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/manual.pdf

I simply did not have time to go over all of the details. 
However, I did say that Don Smith's circuits were pretty close.
Don's circuits are using spark-gaps that expel most of
the energy that is being captured. His circuits are also
using diodes that are not in tune with the incoming
energy. This is why Don's circuit keeps on blowing up
expensive capacitors. I also pointed out that Don deserves
credit for his work even though he has not refined the
circuits yet.


>
> Was it powered by a high-freq AC supply, or by DC?


* Both... 12 volts direct current is required to power
the PUMPING circuit. The white PVC container housed a
flyback transformer. If you had come up to the demonstration
table when my lecture was completed you would have seen this 
flyback transformer. I removed the PVC cover to reveal this 
transformer that was nestled within the container. The flyback 
puts out about ten-thousand volts peak to peak, at about 25Khz. 
used for the conference demonstration. The circuit used 
milliwatts of power. I had the output feeding a valve circuit 
using 20K diodes that have a 1000 nano-seconds recovery rate,
and this circuit connected the antenna that I had assistants
holding up between electrical insulators. The frequency response 
of the diodes are rated at the flyback frequency. In a 
self-sustaining prototype high-voltage diodes with a 500Khz. 
response will have to be used to change the frequency into direct 
current for the output stage. Moray's output stage was 6Khz. Don's 
output is around 30Khz, making Don's output even more efficient than 
Moray's. However, the problem with Don's circuit is that most of his 
captured energy is being dumped back out through his spark gaps. Then 
there is the problem with the diodes blowing out the capacitors. I am 
quite sure that Don is tuning into external sources of electrostatic 
r.f. I have been told that he once stated at a conference that if his 
device was tuned to a local A.M. radio station then he could draw all 
of its power. This is what tells me that he knows what he is doing.


> 
> > The radiant energy device is in tune with "storm frequency." This is
> > right around 500Khz.
> 
> That might be the key. If these "spark driven antenna" devices will only
> work at certain frequencies, the inventors might occasionally get certain
> devices to work sometimes, but might not know why.


* It is the key!


> 
> However, my understanding is entirely in terms of conventional
> electronics. If there is some unorthodox physics involved, then a
> conventional explanation must fail.


* There is no "fringe science" involved once you understand the
underlining precepts. Like I said at last weeks Exotic Research
Conference, let's take this science out of the fringe and bring
it into the standard science relm and we will get the support
that we need.


> 
> In thinking further about the DC version of resonant reception, 
> I see that the principle is much simpler: just receive the incoming 
> microamps across a pre-charged antenna. If a large antenna is collecting 
> a few microamps at 1V, we draw off a few microwatts. (Use an electrical 
> load with a high resistance to keep the antenna from discharging.) Instead, 
> if we charge the same antenna to 1 MV, then we can draw off watts. (If 
> positive current is flowing down from the sky, then the antenna polarity must 
> be made positive in order to increase the energy flow.) Same current, 
> increased voltage, increased energy flow.


* Yes, the sky contains more positive ions than negative ions.
It is my opinion that the antenna acts only as a capacity to
this energy. It is the earth ground rod that draws from the reservoir
of negative ions released by lightning surges around the globe. 


> 
> But if we electrify the antenna, won't it repel the incoming charge? If
> the ionosphere's potential is up in the megavolts, then charging our DC
> receiver antenna entirely cannot prevent the charge flow as long as the
> antenna's total area is fairly large.


* Using direct current as a pump in my experience does not work because 
the circuitry that I have tried has too high of a resistance and you
dampens
the current to be collected. If we could use direct current as our
pumping voltage then it would have to be in series with the source.
Meaning that the circuit antenna would be negative and the ground rod
would be postive.

Remember, we are using the earth as our wire. The earth is the
collecting
surface!

   Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 17:11:48 1999
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Hello all

 I have been lately trying to design an engine-like ARDA(on papers only)
for submersibles or even aircraft,(who knows how it'l work out!), and to go
further, i need to know a few things.

the engine resembles that of jet engines found on boeings.  in front of the
cylinder, i place a beaded needle-like electrode.  It as a screwed exterior
extends outside the end of the bead to connect inside the cylender, so as
to make the water spin inside.  the interior of the cylender is also
threaded, to accentuate the spinning water.  At the end of the engine,
inside is a plug like to direct and compress the exiting water flow.  

	The first thing that i need to know is quite simple, really.  On mr.
Naudin's web site, it is mentioned that the EHD runs in a dielectric media,
like air or aether.  Does that include water? If not, why?    

	The second thing i need to know, is if the EHD would work if one or both
electrode(s) are covered with insulators.  Since the engine is for a
submarine or a boat, at least one of the 2 electrodes would need to be
insulated, to prevent short-circuits.

I'm not a wealthy guy, and do not want to loose money or time in a doomed
project(i.e. this one!) so if you strongly think that i shouldn't be trying
it out, please let me know :)


Marcus Cole

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  1 17:43:02 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
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> Hi All...
> > >You arent missing anything...it's all pseudo-scientific mush!
> >
> >If you know David Hamel story, you probably know he don't get all his
> >informations in a "scientific way".
> 
> I have studied the pyramids for years and have found that 99% of the
> "scientists" are not looking for truth... and 80% have never even been
> there!!!! so David Hamel is in good company...
> 
> good night :)
> Timothy...
> 

Have you read the Sitchin's book "The wars of gods and men" ?

It has an interesting description of the interior of the great pyramid and its 
functions.



---
Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 00:38:27 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 03:35:25 EDT
Subject: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
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<< Hi there everyone,
This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits and pieces 
but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely a few 
pieces of the puzzle.
Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have greater 
understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are entering a 
very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
 As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out that it may 
very well be a deception. 
Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
Mehmet.>>

What is the Blue Beam Project?
What is the Blue Beam Project?
by David Openheimer

It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the 
reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture" 
type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have 
the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow 
become God in human form and control other Men and
dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new 
religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The "BLUE 
BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took 
place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating 
satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by 
region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
WORLD ORDER. 

The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of the "CHRIST 
IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are 
instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers will 
coordinate the satellites and software will run the
show-and-tell. 

Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to produce 
and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical 
phenomena. 

Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple 
holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
receiving different images according to the predominating regional religious 
faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths of 
space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike 
realness. 

The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge 
into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD" will in 
fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious of 
old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished to 
make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them. 

Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result in social 
and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that day ? 

But before all this, they have to go through four different steps in order to 
get to Project Blue Beam. 

1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge. It 
deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will finally 
explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This falsification 
will be used to make the population believe that all
religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The 
falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal with space 
"invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
PARK, was to push the theory of evolution. 

2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical holograms 
and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different image, 
according to its predetermined original national religious
faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple, the 
Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based upon their 
studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity of 
the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
with the different languages of the world. 

3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication, 
where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of the earth 
through the insides of their brains, making each
person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his owm soul. 
Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages. 
These rays will then interlace and interweave with
the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL TALK. 

4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations using 
electronic means. This step contains three different
orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien invasion 
is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability to strike 
back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the false 
attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention of an 
alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all 
significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The waves 
(frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric and 
telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed. The 
goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order to push all 
populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND STARS, 
HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE AT ANY 
COST, EVEN AT
THE COST OF FREEDOM.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 01:34:26 1999
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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tesla's power receiver
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On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> William Beaty wrote:
> > Yes, but similar devices were discussed in about 1992 on Keelynet. It was
> > a patent for a high frequency resonator connected to a longwire antenna
> > suspended a few feet above the ground.  A spark gap and power supply was
> > part of it.  Supposedly when conditions were just right, large amounts of
> > excess energy were produced, but no theory was given.  Back then I had no
> > clue as to how it might work.
> 
> 
> Keelynet was not even online in 1992. I am assuming that you are
> referring to the BBS. The Patent that I know of that even comes
> close is United States Patent No. 253,765 Prentice Sept. 15, 1925

That must be the one.  Long antenna, close to the ground.


> This patent is tuned to the 500Khz. storm frequency. This patent
> refers to this energy as "earth currents." This patent is a crude
> form of Moray's radiant device. The Prentice patent has many 
> disavantages. The greatest drawback of this patent is the half
> mile length of antenna being supported six inches above the 
> ground. The input of this invention is stated to be 500 watts.
> Even though the output is claimed to be around 3,000 watts, this
> representing a six times gain vs. input, it is not self-sustaining.
> It is apparent that there is great loss in this system because
> spark-gaps are used to generate the high-frequency required to
> tune into these "earth currents."

Looks like Prentice stumbled onto a genuine phenomenon, but didn't have
the correct theory to explain it (and to allow improvements to hardware.)

> > What was the device I saw at the conference?  
> 
> 
> * The device at the conference was a "Proof Of Concept (POP)" 
> radiant energy device. It was not self-sustaining but was the 
> first step in introducing the concept. I will be working on 
> building a POP radiant device that will light up a bank of light
> bulbs and possibly be self-sustaining for future conferences. 

I'm stunned, because I think I finally understand what Tesla was always
jabbering about, and your device should work just as you say.  (It might
be necessary to put the antenna outdoors to avoid the electrostatic
shielding provided by the metal in the walls and ceiling.) 


> I have been told that he once stated at a conference that if his 
> device was tuned to a local A.M. radio station then he could draw all 
> of its power. This is what tells me that he knows what he is doing.

Yep.  If he was within a quarter-wavelength of the AM transmitter, and if
his antenna could support the hundreds of KV, then even a small antenna
could create an AC voltage field which cancels the electrostatic part of
the radio wave from the AM station.  "Cancel" really means "totally
absorb", since the cancellation process causes a huge energy flow between
the AM radio transmitter and the tiny receiving antenna.



> * Using direct current as a pump in my experience does not work because 
> the circuitry that I have tried has too high of a resistance and you
> dampens
> the current to be collected. If we could use direct current as our
> pumping voltage then it would have to be in series with the source.
> Meaning that the circuit antenna would be negative and the ground rod
> would be postive.

I agree.  The DC version is an interesting toy, but it appears that the AC
version is the one which supplies significant power.

As Tesla always said, this is *not* Hertzian waves.  In modern terms, it
is "near field" physics, where e-fields and b-fields behave as separate
phenomena.  By allowing high-voltage AC waves to appear on a resonant
antenna, "electrostatic" receivers become possible.  It's like holding an
antenna near a 60Hz high tension power line: it's capacitive coupling to
the AC hi voltage in the environment, and *not* the reception of radio
waves.  It only works when the distances between the source and the
receiver are less than 1/4 wavelength.  If the source and receiver are
enclosed in a resonant chamber (below the ionosphere), then everything
within the chamber is "near field," and we can build an electrostatic
energy-receiving antenna.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 07:34:01 1999
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Message-ID: <000b01bedcdc$be258b80$02da82d1@felis-catus>
From: "Felis Catus" <felis@frontiernet.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:47:02 -0400
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Does this nonsense really belong in a group that purports to be a discussion
group on alternative energy technologies?   Is there any 'experimental'
protocol/proof of these vapourings, aside from 'boysals' assertion that this
is so?  Is the CIA bouncing laser beams off my windows, back to a photocell
arrangement & thereby  turning   them into a sensitive microphone as I read
this?  [Yes, this technology is said to exist, but don't the Police have
better things to do with their time? Like catch criminals?]   Would such
'Blue Beam' or "blue sky" stuff better belong at groups such as:
alt.conspiracy.com?
felis catus felis@frontiernet.net  8/02/99
-----Original Message-----
From: MKSBoysal@aol.com <MKSBoysal@aol.com>
To: undisclosed-recipients:; <undisclosed-recipients:;>
Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 3:38 AM
Subject: Blue Beam Project (must read!)


><< Hi there everyone,
>This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits and
pieces
>but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely a few
>pieces of the puzzle.
>Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
>Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have greater
>understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are entering a
>very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
> As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out that it may
>very well be a deception.
>Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
>Mehmet.>>
>
>What is the Blue Beam Project?
>What is the Blue Beam Project?
>by David Openheimer
>
>It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the
>reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
>that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture"
>type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
>never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have
>the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
>God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow
>become God in human form and control other Men and
>dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new
>religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
>entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The "BLUE
>BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
>fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took
>place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
>sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating
>satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
>simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by
>region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
>WORLD ORDER.
>
>The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of the
"CHRIST
>IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
>desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are
>instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
>of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers will
>coordinate the satellites and software will run the
>show-and-tell.
>
>Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to produce
>and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
>equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical
>phenomena.
>
>Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple
>holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
>receiving different images according to the predominating regional
religious
>faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
>computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths of
>space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
>witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike
>realness.
>
>The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge
>into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
>mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD" will in
>fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
>that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious
of
>old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
>nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished
to
>make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
>One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them.
>
>Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result in
social
>and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
>television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that day ?
>
>But before all this, they have to go through four different steps in order
to
>get to Project Blue Beam.
>
>1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge. It
>deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
>locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will finally
>explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
>doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This
falsification
>will be used to make the population believe that all
>religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The
>falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
>TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal with
space
>"invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
>PARK, was to push the theory of evolution.
>
>2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical holograms
>and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
>images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different image,
>according to its predetermined original national religious
>faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple, the
>Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
>have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based upon
their
>studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
>body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity of
>the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
>with the different languages of the world.
>
>3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication,
>where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
>Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of the earth
>through the insides of their brains, making each
>person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his owm
soul.
>Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
>of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages.
>These rays will then interlace and interweave with
>the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL TALK.
>
>4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations using
>electronic means. This step contains three different
>orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien
invasion
>is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
>This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability to
strike
>back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
>in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the false
>attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
>major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention of
an
>alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
>people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all
>significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
>orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The waves
>(frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
>forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric and
>telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
>and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed.
The
>goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
>ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order to push
all
>populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
>permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND STARS,
>HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
>FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE AT ANY
>COST, EVEN AT
>THE COST OF FREEDOM.
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 08:28:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:28:15 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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Subject: Magnetic Battery from Volker Hennig
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Hi All,

please have a look at this page.

Looks like this is a valid new way to tap
magnetic energy:

 http://bgph.de/vh/


Best regards, Stefan.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 09:14:44 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <73cecbd5.24d71db5@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:13:41 EDT
Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 8/2/99 7:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
felis@frontiernet.net writes:

> Does this nonsense really belong in a group that purports to be a discussion
>  group on alternative energy technologies?  
I have no interest in this topic either and certainly have no authority in 
this group.  However, off topic subjects come up from time to time and my 
vote would be to allow a post or two without criticism so long as the topic 
is likely to be of interest to some part of our group.  Certainly lengthly 
discussions should be taken to the proper forum.
                                                                              
Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 09:23:44 1999
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TMB or Thermal Magnetic Battery, the web section is underconstruction and
much data will be added throughout the week.

Have a look, seems we are not the only ones working in this area.

http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm

Rex A.

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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
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Subject: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
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On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, William Beaty wrote:

> I'm stunned, because I think I finally understand what Tesla was always
> jabbering about, and your device should work just as you say.  (It might
> be necessary to put the antenna outdoors to avoid the electrostatic
> shielding provided by the metal in the walls and ceiling of a building.) 

Hey!

Bruce P.'s 500KHZ "storm signal" is *electrostatic*, it does not
resemble propagating EM waves; it is more like a voltage signal. 
Conventional radio waves are part electrostatic, part magnetic.  Small
amounts of grounded metal would block an electrostatic signal but wouldn't
necessarily stop a conventional radio wave.  A CONVENTIONAL LOOP ANTENNA
WOULD NOT DETECT IT. Orthodox VLF/ELF research relies on loop antennas,
and these receive the magnetic component of the EM wave.  If the wave is
not a true EM wave, and if the electrostatic component is far, far larger
than the magnetic component, then modern science would have no clue that
this enormous high frequency voltage-signal even exists!  There might even
be interesting noises in the electrostatic signal which don't appear in
the magnetic part of the conventional radio wave.

A long-wire antenna would not be the best receiver.  The best receiver
would need to have a large capacitance to the sky.  It would be a large
horizontal capacitor plate.  Or maybe an acre-sized grid of wires all
soldered to each other.  This gives clues to the nature of the HAARP
antenna.  From the photos, I would say that the HAARP antenna is not
exactly a phased array.  It is more like a giant piezeoelectric crystal,
where each antenna behaves as one atom.  If this is true, then those
little x-shaped antennas have very high voltage RF on them. 

Huh... what if nitrogen/oxygen plasma has a resonance near the storm
frequency?  The electrostatic storm-signal could explain Ball Lightning. 
One conventional BL explanation is the "Thunderstorm Maser" theory.  If
thunderstorms give out an unnoticed microwave signal, then plasmas could
absorb it and stay energized.  Wrong!  If thunderstorms give out an
unnoticed, non-microwave, voltage-only RF signal, then any globs of
resonant plasma would act like enormous antennas, and would absorb energy
and stay "lit."   Multiple ball-lightnings might fight with each other,
since each one would tend to shield the others from the storm signal.
Does this mean that BLs should repel?

Maybe these ideas would benefit Ham radio operators.  People have been
making noise about "crossed-field" antennas or CFAs, which act as
efficient transmitters even though they are very small.  Some tests show
that these don't work.  However, a HIGH VOLTAGE antenna might work.  Same
with a HIGH-CURRENT loop antenna.  It could be very short.  The voltage
field is the antenna, and if the voltage field extends out for many yards,
then the antenna acts as if it is many yards long.  The simple way to
accomplish this would be to build a tuned antenna with resonant voltage
step-up, ala Tesla.  A desktop 80-meter transmitting antenna would be a
resonant coil with an intensely strong magnetic field, so strong that the
antenna behaved like an 80-meter sphere of electromagnetic energy.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
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Have you been smoking butt hairs?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 11:54:10 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must laugh)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:53:21 PDT
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WOW!!!! this sound like fun!!!! so how can we push the start button :)))


>From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>Subject: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
>Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 03:35:25 EDT
>
><< Hi there everyone,
>This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits and 
>pieces
>but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely a few
>pieces of the puzzle.
>Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
>Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have greater
>understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are entering a
>very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
>  As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out that it may
>very well be a deception.
>Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
>Mehmet.>>
>
>What is the Blue Beam Project?
>What is the Blue Beam Project?
>by David Openheimer
>
>It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the
>reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
>that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture"
>type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
>never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have
>the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
>God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow
>become God in human form and control other Men and
>dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new
>religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
>entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The "BLUE
>BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
>fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took
>place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
>sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating
>satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
>simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by
>region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
>WORLD ORDER.
>
>The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of the 
>"CHRIST
>IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
>desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are
>instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
>of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers will
>coordinate the satellites and software will run the
>show-and-tell.
>
>Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to produce
>and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
>equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical
>phenomena.
>
>Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple
>holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
>receiving different images according to the predominating regional 
>religious
>faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
>computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths of
>space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
>witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike
>realness.
>
>The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge
>into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
>mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD" will in
>fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
>that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious 
>of
>old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
>nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished 
>to
>make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
>One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them.
>
>Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result in 
>social
>and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
>television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that day ?
>
>But before all this, they have to go through four different steps in order 
>to
>get to Project Blue Beam.
>
>1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge. It
>deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
>locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will finally
>explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
>doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This 
>falsification
>will be used to make the population believe that all
>religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The
>falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
>TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal with 
>space
>"invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
>PARK, was to push the theory of evolution.
>
>2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical holograms
>and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
>images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different image,
>according to its predetermined original national religious
>faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple, the
>Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
>have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based upon 
>their
>studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
>body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity of
>the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
>with the different languages of the world.
>
>3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication,
>where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
>Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of the earth
>through the insides of their brains, making each
>person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his owm 
>soul.
>Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
>of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages.
>These rays will then interlace and interweave with
>the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL TALK.
>
>4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations using
>electronic means. This step contains three different
>orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien 
>invasion
>is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
>This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability to 
>strike
>back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
>in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the false
>attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
>major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention of 
>an
>alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
>people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all
>significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
>orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The waves
>(frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
>forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric and
>telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
>and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed. 
>The
>goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
>ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order to push 
>all
>populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
>permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND STARS,
>HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
>FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE AT ANY
>COST, EVEN AT
>THE COST OF FREEDOM.
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 12:35:38 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must laugh)
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>>The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge
>>into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
>>mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed.

What?!  No Elvis?!!  They won't fool anybody with their fancy light show
down here unless they show the REAL King.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 13:35:08 1999
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Subject: Re: Blue Beam Project (must read!)
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Felis the Cat writes:

   >  Does this nonsense really belong in a group that purports
   >  to be a discussion group on alternative energy
   >  technologies?

No. Current psi-ops efforts of this nature are strictly a national security
issue and should not be discussed on public boards.

   >  Is there any 'experimental' protocol/proof
   >  of these vapourings, aside from 'boysals' assertion that
   >  this is so?

Upon successful demonstration through the proper channels of the basis of
your need to know, I'm sure you or any other person capable of passing the
neccessary security clearances could legitimately obtain this information.

   > Is the CIA bouncing laser beams off my
   >  windows, back to a photocell arrangement & thereby
   >  turning them into a sensitive microphone as I read this?

Probably not if you reside in the US. I believe such domestic surveillance
would by law have to be performed by the FBI or local law enforcement.

   >  Would such 'Blue Beam' or "blue sky" stuff better belong at
   >  groups such as: alt.conspiracy.com?

Probably a good idea in order to further impugn the credibility of such
rumors so that legitimate work on the influence and control of mass
populations for strategic advantage can proceed more efficiently.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI;)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 13:43:19 1999
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Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Bill -

   >  There might even be interesting noises in the electrostatic
   >  signal which don't appear in the magnetic part of the
   >  conventional radio wave.

And we might record them by tracking capacitor self charge rates, or with
Hodowanecs?

<...and from an previous post>

   >  "Cancel" really means "totally absorb", since the
   >  cancellation process causes a huge energy flow between the
   >  AM radio transmitter and the tiny receiving antenna.

"Huge energy" into a tiny antenna? Cool! So the normally infintessimally
tiny forces normally appearing on conventional antennas due to the EM
intercepted might be greatly magnified as well? Always on the lookout for
alternative propulsion systems here (wheels spinning rapidly now...)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 14:06:24 1999
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Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:07:29 -0400
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Subject: HE HE HE HEH: Blue Beam
References: <d8624a75.24d6a43d@aol.com>
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He he he he he heh,

Your story is soo hilarious, so funny and ridicule, I am not angry anymore...

Heh heh heh heh heh heh...Keep em coming...heh heh heh heh...

MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:

> << Hi there everyone,
> This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits and pieces
> but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely a few
> pieces of the puzzle.
> Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
> Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have greater
> understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are entering a
> very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
>  As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out that it may
> very well be a deception.
> Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
> Mehmet.>>
>
> What is the Blue Beam Project?
> What is the Blue Beam Project?
> by David Openheimer
>
> It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the
> reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
> that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture"
> type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
> never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have
> the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
> God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow
> become God in human form and control other Men and
> dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new
> religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
> entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The "BLUE
> BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
> fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took
> place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
> sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating
> satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
> simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by
> region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
> WORLD ORDER.
>
> The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of the "CHRIST
> IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
> desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are
> instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
> of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers will
> coordinate the satellites and software will run the
> show-and-tell.
>
> Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to produce
> and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
> equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical
> phenomena.
>
> Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple
> holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
> receiving different images according to the predominating regional religious
> faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
> computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths of
> space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
> witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike
> realness.
>
> The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge
> into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
> mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD" will in
> fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
> that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious of
> old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
> nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished to
> make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
> One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them.
>
> Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result in social
> and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
> television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that day ?
>
> But before all this, they have to go through four different steps in order to
> get to Project Blue Beam.
>
> 1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge. It
> deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
> locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will finally
> explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
> doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This falsification
> will be used to make the population believe that all
> religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The
> falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
> TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal with space
> "invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
> PARK, was to push the theory of evolution.
>
> 2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical holograms
> and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
> images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different image,
> according to its predetermined original national religious
> faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple, the
> Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
> have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based upon their
> studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
> body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity of
> the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
> with the different languages of the world.
>
> 3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication,
> where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
> Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of the earth
> through the insides of their brains, making each
> person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his owm soul.
> Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
> of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages.
> These rays will then interlace and interweave with
> the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL TALK.
>
> 4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations using
> electronic means. This step contains three different
> orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien invasion
> is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
> This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability to strike
> back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
> in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the false
> attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
> major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention of an
> alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
> people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all
> significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
> orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The waves
> (frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
> forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric and
> telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
> and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed. The
> goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
> ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order to push all
> populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
> permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND STARS,
> HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
> FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE AT ANY
> COST, EVEN AT
> THE COST OF FREEDOM.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 15:24:38 1999
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Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:24:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Update on Solar Cycle
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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A year or so a Mr. Cagle posted something here regarding "Scybolt(tm) 
Faith Call" or something like that.  In the posting he predicted that the 
upcoming solar cycle would be the biggest ever, causing various 
catastrophic things to happen to the Earth.

Well, I don't know how many of you follow such things, but as a radio 
amateur I observe solar activity very closely.  So far this solar cycle 
has been a big flop; not quite a "maunder minimum" (where the sun seems 
to skip a sunspot cycle peak for one cycle) but it has been very 
disappointing. It is going down in the records as one of the lower 
activity solar cycles.

I guess we'll have to wait another 12 years or so for the "Big One"!

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 15:43:30 1999
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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
In-Reply-To: <199908021642.SM00234@[192.168.0.2]>
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On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> "Huge energy" into a tiny antenna? Cool! So the normally infintessimally
> tiny forces normally appearing on conventional antennas due to the EM
> intercepted might be greatly magnified as well? Always on the lookout for
> alternative propulsion systems here (wheels spinning rapidly now...)

Oh boy.  I hadn't thought of that.  I was thinking like this:  strong
magnetic coupling is a transformer.  Strong electrostatic coupling is a
capacitor.  Strong high-freq resonant coupling resembles an iron-core
transformer or a high-value capacitor (either use a high-voltage dipole
antenna, or a high-amperage loop antenna.) 

But "Transformer" equals "electric motor"!  And "Capacitor" equals
"electrostatic motor".  Mechanical forces become large when coupling
becomes tight.  What kind of motor can we create using high-Q resonant
coupling?  Whew.  Maybe magnetic levitation that is partially
electrostatic?  If there are any high-Q resonances in dirt or rock, then
we could create something resembling superconductor levitation.  Better
put it in a disk-shaped enclosure to keep people from freaking out.  If a
hobbyist has an electromagnetic flying machine, there will be hell to pay. 
But if it's just a UFO, then no newspaper would bother running the story. 

:)

What if both free energy and antigravity are possible, can be produced by
spinning magnets and high voltage, but they use totally conventional EM,
and they are driven by Bruce P.'s naturally occuring 500KHZ storm voltage? 
Me brane hurts. 

On a less demented note, everyone must go and build themselves a passive
diamagnetic maglev device using graphite pucks and Radio-shack magnets: 

   http://lahr.org/john-jan/maglev/maglev.html

Send it to Art Bell.  Tell him that Bismuth is an important factor.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 16:40:25 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 19:30:44 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>> "Huge energy" into a tiny antenna? Cool! So the normally infintessimally
>> tiny forces normally appearing on conventional antennas due to the EM
>> intercepted might be greatly magnified as well? Always on the lookout for
>> alternative propulsion systems here (wheels spinning rapidly now...)
>
>Oh boy.  I hadn't thought of that.  I was thinking like this:  strong
>magnetic coupling is a transformer.  Strong electrostatic coupling is a
>capacitor.  Strong high-freq resonant coupling resembles an iron-core
>transformer or a high-value capacitor (either use a high-voltage dipole
>antenna, or a high-amperage loop antenna.) 

What would happen if you take the standard ARRL Antenna book
and do it all backwards?  Go for the highest possible
"standing waves".  Electrostatic Waves?

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 17:33:01 1999
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Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:30:30 -1000
Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Bob wrote:

   >  What would happen if you take the standard ARRL Antenna
   >  book and do it all backwards?

Pfffft...lol- Almost spit my drink all over the keyboard visualizing nerdy
free energy cultists finding OU/antigrav/FTL messages in the ARRL handbook
by reading it backwards! But I know what you mean, I think. I've wondered
for years about this sort of thing, near field effects and electrostatic
"waves".

And Bill wrote:

   >  If a hobbyist has an electromagnetic flying machine, there
   >  will be hell to pay. But if it's just a UFO, then no
   >  newspaper would bother running the story.

Yeah, let's lay low with this one for a while, fly it only at night near
Pahrump, NV.

Seriously, I wonder what sort of mechanical forces would accumulate from
such schemes. It doesn't take too much force per square foot to loft a man
carrying machine if it has a lot of square feet on it. Hang gliders operate
at around a pound per square foot, and ultralights not too much higher. A
disc or perhaps a large area semi-rigid gas-filled deltoid form factor would
be ideal.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 17:57:57 1999
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Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Bill -

   >  Maybe magnetic levitation that is partially electrostatic?
   >  If there are any high-Q resonances in dirt or rock, then we
   >  could create something resembling superconductor
   >  levitation.

Then there was Joe Newman's balloon with the HV pulsed DC coils around it.
Now I'm wondering about that.

Wouldn't it be amazing if some of the "crackpots" had some of it right all
along?  ;)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 18:47:30 1999
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Message-ID: <37A64B91.5EB3@cyberportal.net>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:53:21 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Subject: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW...
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> 
> Bob wrote:
> 
> What would happen if you take the standard ARRL Antenna
> book and do it all backwards?


I have known about the effects since 1982. The world that 
you are about to enter is a world of reverse magnetic flow. 
Welcome to my world. 

Please be careful reporting what you find on the internet.
We do not know who is listoning. There are far reaching
implications than you now realize. From the sounds of
these most recent posts I suspect that you will coming to
this realization soon. All I ask is that you think about
the implications of what you are coming to discover.

I did not wish to set the world on fire. With knowledge
comes responsibility. 


     Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 19:01:17 1999
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..........! oh puhleeze !.........

first it was blue beam posts, now 
conspiracy, cult, secrecy, paranoia,
and the guru/messiah complex, I can't 
hit my delete key fast enough as it is..

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 19:21:14 1999
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I joined this the list to share my research. I don't
think that I am out of line by telling people to be
careful. We live in a world of many uncertainties.
Let's be realistic.

This guy is provoking a flame war, something that
is very counter-productive. It is also against the
list rules.

Jerry, if you do not have something positive to
contribute then please don't say anything.


     Respectfully, Bruce A. Perreault



Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> ..........! oh puhleeze !.........
> 
> first it was blue beam posts, now
> conspiracy, cult, secrecy, paranoia,
> and the guru/messiah complex, I can't
> hit my delete key fast enough as it is..
> 
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 19:45:16 1999
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Flamewars? Not remotely, just the usual reality check for BP limited.

The list is about freenrg, not the following delusions from BP limited;

Paranoia & conspiracy;
>  Please be careful reporting what you find on the internet.
>  We do not know who is listoning.

Messiah/guru complex;
> I did not wish to set the world on fire.

Don't worry, you failed everytime in the past and were caught, not
flames, just reality checks. An audience you can't resist, I understand
but not in my mailbox via this or any other rational list.

Stick to free energy and you'll only hear a peep out of me if it merits
rational discussion from my point of view.  But I am on the list for
free energy, not 'nu' anything.

The Prentice patent on the KeelyNet (which has factually been online as
a bbs since 1988 and went to the Internet in 1996) is listed at;

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/prentice.htm

and the Tesla patents mirror, courtesy of Fred Walters at;

http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/index.html

That's what I subscribed to the list for, not delusions inserted into my
mailbox without comment, from blue whatevers to 'being watched' to the
egomaniacal delusions of setting the world on fire.....again...and
again...etc...

Finally;
>  Jerry, if you do not have something positive to contribute then 
>  please don't say anything.

Positive?  they are watching, they are listening, who will set the world
on fire?  POSITIVE?  Time hasn't forgotten and you have no place to
instruct anyone, ESPECIALLY me to not comment on your responses to a
public list when those delusions are out of field from the list topic
and shoved into my mailbox.  

Stick to the subject of freenrg and I'll add or subtract what I feel is
relevant, lose it and I'll respond as I see fit. period

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 19:52:50 1999
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Subject: Re: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW...
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Bruce,  good point!  Would love to hear more of your thoughts on
'reverse energy flow'
as well.

cheers,

Don

Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> >
> > Bob wrote:
> >
> > What would happen if you take the standard ARRL Antenna
> > book and do it all backwards?
>
> I have known about the effects since 1982. The world that
> you are about to enter is a world of reverse magnetic flow.
> Welcome to my world.
>
> Please be careful reporting what you find on the internet.
> We do not know who is listoning. There are far reaching
> implications than you now realize. From the sounds of
> these most recent posts I suspect that you will coming to
> this realization soon. All I ask is that you think about
> the implications of what you are coming to discover.
>
> I did not wish to set the world on fire. With knowledge
> comes responsibility.
>
>      Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 22:43:04 1999
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Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:41:44
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Battery from Volker Hennig
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At 05:28 PM 8/2/99 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>please have a look at this page.
>
>Looks like this is a valid new way to tap
>magnetic energy:
>
> http://bgph.de/vh/
>
>
>Best regards, Stefan.
>
Hi Stefan,
Have you seen or tried this?
(A electrical conductor wrapped with magnetic flux like a wire magnet wound
as a solenoid, or a wire
with current producing circular field lines surrounded by a ferromagnetic
cylinder.)
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  2 23:16:06 1999
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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Tesla and voltage-signals as ball lightning!
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On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> And Bill wrote:
> 
>    >  If a hobbyist has an electromagnetic flying machine, there
>    >  will be hell to pay. But if it's just a UFO, then no
>    >  newspaper would bother running the story.
> 
> Yeah, let's lay low with this one for a while, fly it only at night near
> Pahrump, NV.

My wife asks what I want done with my body after I die.  One of my various
answers is a request to have it shot down while in a craft hovering over
an airforce base, and in the wreckage are all sorts of indecipherable
components, coils wound from saline-filled plastic tubes, gallons of
mercury, transformers wound upon carbon cores, vacuum tubes filled with
glass microspheres, etc.  (If it's all lifted by some lens-shaped mylar
hydrogen bags, this might not be totally apparent in the remains.)


> Seriously, I wonder what sort of mechanical forces would accumulate from
> such schemes. It doesn't take too much force per square foot to loft a man
> carrying machine if it has a lot of square feet on it. Hang gliders operate
> at around a pound per square foot, and ultralights not too much higher. A
> disc or perhaps a large area semi-rigid gas-filled deltoid form factor would
> be ideal.


I wonder if a negatively-charged object would be attracted upwards by the
100V/m DC sky field?  If there is a stronger field at other frequencies,
then a properly-phased high voltage surface might provide usable
attraction/repulsion forces, and might not even need an onboard power
supply.  Phase-locked AC fields can get around many of the problems
suffered by DC high-voltage systems.  Tesla's articles showed biplanes
with metal sheets in the upper and lower airfoils.  It might be simpler to
power a motor from a resonant receiver than to use EM forces directly. 

Now that I'm thinking along these lines, I see that a *really* intense
high-frequency magnetic field might cause strange forces to appear.  If
the EM waves from it wrap around the entire Earth, and the Earth's Q is as
high as Tesla thought, then the waves would re-focus at the source, and
the ground/sky currents might be strong enough to apply forces to the
field generator.  Spin those magnets fast enough, and phase-locked earth
resonance supplies the "stator" magnet which provides the lift.

Tesla kept saying that waves would travel around the Earth with
undiminished amplitude.  That's scary, since a picky engineer should have
said *slightly diminished* amplitude.  The article on active VLF antennas
mentioned that the Q of the Earth might be much larger than is commonly
thought, because VLF antennas commonly require long integration times (ten
minutes) to attain reliable measurements, and if the Earth's resonant
frequency should wander around during that time, it would seem like Q was
low.  Of course if the resonant frequency wanders around, then any power
transmitter will not track it, and Q will behave low in reality.  If there
was some nonlinear process which forced the transmitter to lock on and
follow the resonance (or which forced the entire earth to lock itself into
coherence with the transmitter), then the Q could become very high.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Then there was Joe Newman's balloon with the HV pulsed DC coils around it.
> Now I'm wondering about that.
> 
> Wouldn't it be amazing if some of the "crackpots" had some of it right all
> along?  ;)


That's a big component of my philosophy: if it's possible, and if it's not
incredibly complex, then people will stumble across it accidentally.  The
other part: if mainstream science has declared it impossible, then every
time they stumble across it accidentally, they will quickly turn away.  A
"crackpot" who is seeking unorthodox evidence to support unorthodox
theories can let the world take them by the hand and lead them into
strange new realms far beyond their unorthodox theories. 

If I constantly try to build a torsion-wave motor, I might accidentally
figure out how to tap the ZPE flux, even though torsion-wave motors are
impossible.  (Or the opposite, maybe the ZPE cannot be tapped, but
empirical explorations of possible ZPE devices will unveil all sorts of
torsion-based technology.) 

It's a possibility, not a sure bet.  Cat's-whisker diodes might be
discovered accidentally, but refining tons of Pitchblende into milligrams
of Radium Chloride doesn't happen by accident.



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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Only those who do not know where to look will be decieved by this device.
Question, Where is the Kingdom of God?

patrick tremblay wrote:

> He he he he he heh,
>
> Your story is soo hilarious, so funny and ridicule, I am not angry anymore...
>
> Heh heh heh heh heh heh...Keep em coming...heh heh heh heh...
>
> MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:
>
> > << Hi there everyone,
> > This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits and pieces
> > but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely a few
> > pieces of the puzzle.
> > Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
> > Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have greater
> > understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are entering a
> > very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
> >  As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out that it may
> > very well be a deception.
> > Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
> > Mehmet.>>
> >
> > What is the Blue Beam Project?
> > What is the Blue Beam Project?
> > by David Openheimer
> >
> > It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the
> > reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
> > that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture"
> > type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
> > never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have
> > the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
> > God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow
> > become God in human form and control other Men and
> > dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new
> > religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
> > entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The "BLUE
> > BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
> > fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took
> > place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
> > sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating
> > satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
> > simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by
> > region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
> > WORLD ORDER.
> >
> > The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of the "CHRIST
> > IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
> > desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are
> > instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
> > of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers will
> > coordinate the satellites and software will run the
> > show-and-tell.
> >
> > Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to produce
> > and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
> > equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical
> > phenomena.
> >
> > Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple
> > holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
> > receiving different images according to the predominating regional religious
> > faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
> > computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths of
> > space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
> > witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike
> > realness.
> >
> > The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will merge
> > into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
> > mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD" will in
> > fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
> > that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious of
> > old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
> > nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished to
> > make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
> > One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them.
> >
> > Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result in social
> > and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
> > television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that day ?
> >
> > But before all this, they have to go through four different steps in order to
> > get to Project Blue Beam.
> >
> > 1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge. It
> > deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
> > locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will finally
> > explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
> > doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This falsification
> > will be used to make the population believe that all
> > religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The
> > falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
> > TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal with space
> > "invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
> > PARK, was to push the theory of evolution.
> >
> > 2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical holograms
> > and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
> > images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different image,
> > according to its predetermined original national religious
> > faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple, the
> > Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
> > have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based upon their
> > studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
> > body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity of
> > the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
> > with the different languages of the world.
> >
> > 3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication,
> > where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
> > Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of the earth
> > through the insides of their brains, making each
> > person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his owm soul.
> > Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
> > of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages.
> > These rays will then interlace and interweave with
> > the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL TALK.
> >
> > 4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations using
> > electronic means. This step contains three different
> > orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien invasion
> > is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
> > This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability to strike
> > back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
> > in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the false
> > attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
> > major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention of an
> > alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
> > people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all
> > significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
> > orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The waves
> > (frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
> > forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric and
> > telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
> > and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed. The
> > goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
> > ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order to push all
> > populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
> > permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND STARS,
> > HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
> > FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE AT ANY
> > COST, EVEN AT
> > THE COST OF FREEDOM.

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<i><font face="Tahoma">Only those who do not know where to look will be
decieved by this device.&nbsp; Question, Where is the Kingdom of God?</font></i>
<p>patrick tremblay wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>He he he he he heh,
<p>Your story is soo hilarious, so funny and ridicule, I am not angry anymore...
<p>Heh heh heh heh heh heh...Keep em coming...heh heh heh heh...
<p>MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:
<p>> &lt;&lt; Hi there everyone,
<br>> This information is something to behold, I heard in past some bits
and pieces
<br>> but never like this regarding to this subject below, but was merely
a few
<br>> pieces of the puzzle.
<br>> Here below you'll get the whole picture, its so fascinating.
<br>> Let us remember this information that, time to come we may a have
greater
<br>> understanding of super natural. Not that can't happen but we are
entering a
<br>> very dangerous area that man is becoming gods on earth.
<br>>&nbsp; As has been said if its too good to be true, let us watch out
that it may
<br>> very well be a deception.
<br>> Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...
<br>> Mehmet.>>
<br>>
<br>> What is the Blue Beam Project?
<br>> What is the Blue Beam Project?
<br>> by David Openheimer
<br>>
<br>> It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming"
and the
<br>> reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects
<br>> that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a
"rapture"
<br>> type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into
<br>> never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections
have
<br>> the potential for changing the planet into oneness with
<br>> God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow
<br>> become God in human form and control other Men and
<br>> dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the
new
<br>> religion, the New World Order and the new "Messiah" will
<br>> entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing "holy wars".The
"BLUE
<br>> BEAM PROJECT" will pretend to be the universal
<br>> fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which
took
<br>> place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the
<br>> sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating
<br>> satellites (star wars). These projectors will project
<br>> simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language
by
<br>> region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW
<br>> WORLD ORDER.
<br>>
<br>> The "system" has already been tested. Holographic projections of
the "CHRIST
<br>> IMAGE" have already been seen in some remote
<br>> desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so
they are
<br>> instantly rendered moot. They can also project images
<br>> of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels - you name it. Computers
will
<br>> coordinate the satellites and software will run the
<br>> show-and-tell.
<br>>
<br>> Hollography is based on very nearly identical signals combining to
produce
<br>> and image, or hologram, with depth perception. This is
<br>> equally applicable to acoustic (ELF,VLF,LF) waves as it is to optical
<br>> phenomena.
<br>>
<br>> Specifically, the "show" will consist of laser projections of multiple
<br>> holographic images to different parts of the planet, each
<br>> receiving different images according to the predominating regional
religious
<br>> faith. Not a single area will be excluded. With
<br>> computer animation and sound effects appearing to come from the depths
of
<br>> space, astonished followers of the various creeds will
<br>> witness their own returned Messiah in spectacularly convincing lifelike
<br>> realness.
<br>>
<br>> The various images of Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, etc., will
merge
<br>> into ONE after "correct explanation" of the
<br>> mysteries, prophecies and revelations are disclosed. This "ONE GOD"
will in
<br>> fact function as the "Anti-Christ", who will "explain"
<br>> that the various scriptures "have been misunderstood"- that the religious
of
<br>> old are responsible for turning brother against brother,
<br>> nation against nation - that the religions of the world must be abolished
to
<br>> make way for the GOLDEN AGE (NEW AGE) of the
<br>> One World Religion, representing the One God they see before them.
<br>>
<br>> Naturally, this superbly staged, full-scale production will result
in social
<br>> and religious disorder on a massive scale. Wonder what the
<br>> television transmitters of religious networks will be doing on that
day ?
<br>>
<br>> But before all this, they have to go through four different steps
in order to
<br>> get to Project Blue Beam.
<br>>
<br>> 1: The first step concerns the breakdown of all archaological knowledge.
It
<br>> deals with staging earthquakes at certain precise
<br>> locations around the planet where supposed new "discoveries" will
finally
<br>> explain (for them) that the meanings of the basic
<br>> doctrines of all the world`s major religions are "wrong." This falsification
<br>> will be used to make the population believe that all
<br>> religious doctrine has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The
<br>> falsification started with the film 2001: A Space Odessy, the
<br>> TV-series STAR TREK, the STAR WARS films, E.T., all of which deal
with space
<br>> "invasion" and "protection". JURASSIC
<br>> PARK, was to push the theory of evolution.
<br>>
<br>> 2: The second step deals with the gigantic space show: 3D optical
holograms
<br>> and sounds, laser projections of multiple holographic
<br>> images in different parts of the world, each receiving a different
image,
<br>> according to its predetermined original national religious
<br>> faith. This new "god" image will talk in all languages. As an exemple,
the
<br>> Soviets have manufactured the advanced computers and
<br>> have programmed them with the minute psychological particles based
upon their
<br>> studies of the anatomy and biology of the human
<br>> body, as well as their studies on the anatomy, chemistry and electricity
of
<br>> the humain brain. These computers have also been fed
<br>> with the different languages of the world.
<br>>
<br>> 3: The third step deals with telepathic electronic two-way communication,
<br>> where ELF(Extra Low Frequency), VLF (Very Low
<br>> Frequency), and LF (Low Frequency) waves will reach the people of
the earth
<br>> through the insides of their brains, making each
<br>> person believe that his own God is speaking to him from within his
owm soul.
<br>> Such rays, from satellite, are fed from the memory
<br>> of computers that store much data about the human being and his languages.
<br>> These rays will then interlace and interweave with
<br>> the natural thinking processes to form what we call the ARTIFICIAL
TALK.
<br>>
<br>> 4: The fourth step involves universal supernatural manifestations
using
<br>> electronic means. This step contains three different
<br>> orientations: The first one is to make mankind believe that an alien
invasion
<br>> is about to occur upon every major city on the earth.
<br>> This is to push each major nation into using its nuclear capability
to strike
<br>> back. In this manner, it would put each of these nations
<br>> in a state of full disarmament before the United Nations after the
false
<br>> attack. The second is to make the "christian" believe that a
<br>> major rapture is occurring, with a simple "played" divine imtervention
of an
<br>> alleged "good" alien force coming to save the good
<br>> people from a brutal satanic attack. Its goal is to get rid of all
<br>> significant opposition to the NEW WORLD ORDER. The third
<br>> orientation is a mixture of electronic and supernatural forces. The
waves
<br>> (frequencies) used at that time will allow supernatural
<br>> forces to travel through fiber optics cable, coaxial cable,electric
and
<br>> telephone lines in order to penetrate all electronic equipment
<br>> and appliances that will by then all have a special microship installed.
The
<br>> goal of this step deals with the materialization of satanic
<br>> ghosts, spectres, and poltergeists all across the globe in order
to push all
<br>> populations to the edge of a wave of suicide, killing and
<br>> permanent psychological disorder. After that night of the THOUSAND
STARS,
<br>> HUMANITY IS BELIEVED TO BE READY
<br>> FOR THEM TO ENTER IN A "NEW MESSIAH" TO REESTABLISH PEACE EVERYWHERE
AT ANY
<br>> COST, EVEN AT
<br>> THE COST OF FREEDOM.</blockquote>
</html>

--------------F33BD0EB25FB3EE8AA8ABDD8--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 02:40:30 1999
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Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 23:40:11 -1000
Subject: hovering magnet between your fingers
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Wow - just tried this, and it's not really hard to do at all. Takes a steady
hand though. I used a large disc shaped ceramic for the upper magnet,
sitting on a board. Both a tiny neodymium and a standard grade 5 ceramic
SMOT magnet worked off my hands and fingers. The SMOT brick shaped magnet
was easier I think due to its larger mass as tiny hand movements cause the
thing to jump up and down. Hold it bewtween two fingers under the large
magnet, center it in the neutral weight zone and just gently widen the gap
and see light both above and below. And I remember seeing that for the first
time above a superconductor and thinking it was magic. This is really cool!

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 03:56:28 1999
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Dave Dameron schrieb:
> 
> At 05:28 PM 8/2/99 +0200, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >please have a look at this page.
> >
> >Looks like this is a valid new way to tap
> >magnetic energy:
> >
> > http://bgph.de/vh/
> >
> >
> >Best regards, Stefan.
> >
> Hi Stefan,
> Have you seen or tried this?
> (A electrical conductor wrapped with magnetic flux like a wire magnet wound
> as a solenoid, or a wire
> with current producing circular field lines surrounded by a ferromagnetic
> cylinder.)
> -Dave

Hmm, to my understanding it must be an electrical conductor
wrapped with iron wire (or in this case: iron audio tape),
where you have at the end of the iron wire a northpole and
at the other end a south pole.

So you  have wrapped around the conductor VACE elements ,
but in a SPIRAL way !!

My old post from the 13th of June already proposed this to get
a DC voltage and Volker Henning seemed to have proved the concept valid
with his experiment.

Here is my old post:


          Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
                             Newman-L Mailing List
<newman-l@emachine.com>
                     Betreff: 
                             DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets
toroids ?
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Hi,

I have a question, food for thought,
which might seem to be the logical conclusion
of the following experiment:

Please have a look at:
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/ortho1.htm

and especially at the lower part of the picture:
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/fig3.gif

The lower part of this picture
could be interpreted as
5 linearly stacked permanent magnet toroids 
(red colored circles) (VACE), 
where the A-Field
could generate an E-Field
(DC Voltage) on the conductor (blue color) ?

Is this possible ?

Just take 5 donut permanent magnet toroids,
where the B-Field is inside the toroids,
stack them up top on top,
put a wire through it (through the hole), or just better a coil
and you will have a free DC power source ?

Even better,
take many more toroids and stack them together
in a 360 degree circular position, 
(e.g. 36 pieces each 10 degrees angle spaced)

A conductor closed loop placed inside this loop of circular
inner A-Field should heat up,
cause it is a short circuited DC power source...?

Is this right ?
Will this work ?

It just sounds too simple.
Where is my thinking error ?

Regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 04:30:45 1999
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Hi All,
a toroidal overunity generator
has been build according simular to figure 1 at:

http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/ph-machine.htm

(Not by Mr. Frolov in this case , I just use this picture
for reference, the source wants to stay anonymous,
until his patent application is done and university
verification tests will be done)

The claims are:
1200 Watts coil out with about 1076.4 Watts in into the driving motor
at 3450 RPM.

> 8 amps @117volts at noload
> 9.2 amps @117 volts at full load
> 

The output of about 1200 Watts 
is already a total overunity operation !


As they just increase the input power by about 140 Watts
only between idle and load state and they get
1200 Watts output it seems indeed a case,
where Lenz law is violated ! (the driving motor
is inefficient in this case)

This generator also has NO motor effect !
if you supply current to the coil, the permanent magnet
in the center will not rotate, cause the flux just stays
inside the toroid core !

There you can see, that the back drag does not influence
the mechanical rotation of the magnet !

Regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 13:36:10 1999
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Subject: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
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	Hi,
I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
hands on way.  

Thanks for your time,
Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 12:48:50 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW\Tesla Mag
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:54:22 -0400
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I wouldn't mind discussing your work, either, if it's valid, and you could
provide some insight.  I'm not all that familiar with it, I'm afraid, but I
can catch up pretty quickly.

Another thing that I was wondering, I had a brief exchange with Gary Hawkins
not long ago regarding his work with high voltage arc experiments.  He said
that he had done a write up of the protocol, and published it in
Extraordinary Science.  I did a little poking around on the web for the
magazine, and found that it was published by the Telsa Society, which has
since "withered on the vine", to quote one of America's foremost proponents
of starving good causes to death.

I was wondering if anyone still had contact with McGuinniss, or any of the
other members of that Society.  It seems like a such an incredible waste to
have the content of those articles condemned to being committed to a limited
edition of paper issues.  I realize that the magazine was probably
copyrighted and intended to provide needed revenue for the Society, but I
wonder if the former owners of the magazine would mind having the articles
scanned, and put up on the web for all to read, now that the Tesla Society
has been effectively done in.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or corrections on this matter?

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 13:20:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:21:26 -0400
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Dear Michael,

Exoticscience is alive and kicking.  Steve Elswick is publishing it now.  He seperated
from  The Tesla Society a couple of years ago. Here is the url
http://www.exoticresearch.com/

Hope this helps.

Henry Curtis


Michael T Huffman wrote:

> I wouldn't mind discussing your work, either, if it's valid, and you could
> provide some insight.  I'm not all that familiar with it, I'm afraid, but I
> can catch up pretty quickly.
>
> Another thing that I was wondering, I had a brief exchange with Gary Hawkins
> not long ago regarding his work with high voltage arc experiments.  He said
> that he had done a write up of the protocol, and published it in
> Extraordinary Science.  I did a little poking around on the web for the
> magazine, and found that it was published by the Telsa Society, which has
> since "withered on the vine", to quote one of America's foremost proponents
> of starving good causes to death.
>
> I was wondering if anyone still had contact with McGuinniss, or any of the
> other members of that Society.  It seems like a such an incredible waste to
> have the content of those articles condemned to being committed to a limited
> edition of paper issues.  I realize that the magazine was probably
> copyrighted and intended to provide needed revenue for the Society, but I
> wonder if the former owners of the magazine would mind having the articles
> scanned, and put up on the web for all to read, now that the Tesla Society
> has been effectively done in.
>
> Any thoughts, suggestions, or corrections on this matter?
>
> Knuke
>
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 13:48:35 1999
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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:47:59 +0100 (BST)
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Zac,
Try Horowitz and Hill 'The Art of Electronics' should be about 3rd ed by
now Cambridge Uni Press.
Remi.

On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Zac Miller wrote:

> 	Hi,
> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
> interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
> recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
> hands on way.  
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 14:02:48 1999
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <Red-Leader@[38.244.146.2]>
From: "Red-Leader" <Red-Leader@dabney.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:02:31 +0000
Subject: Re: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
Priority: normal
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Zac Miller wrote:

> 	Hi,
> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
> interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
> recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
> hands on way.  

The kits sold by Radio Shack are pretty decent. They have you build 
projects that use electronics concepts as they're explained. If 
you're just starting out in electronics that's what I would recomend 
but if you're already familier with most of it they're not going to 
help you a whole lot. 


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 14:09:09 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW\Tesla Mag
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:15:00 -0400
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>Dear Michael,
>
>Exoticscience is alive and kicking.  Steve Elswick is publishing it now.
He seperated
>from  The Tesla Society a couple of years ago. Here is the url
>http://www.exoticresearch.com/
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Henry Curtis

Hey Thanks!

This is good news.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 14:28:49 1999
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:27:22 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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I am convinced that Jerry Decker's true agenda is to suppress 
Free Energy. I have been keeping an eye on him and 9 out of 10 
of his words are spent on attempting to debunk and put down 
researchers and their ideas. 
 
I hope 2000 will bring in a new millenia of open minded researchers. 
I hope Bill Beaty is one of these.
 
We need more of these kind of people to help drive out the Jerry Deckers 
that have infiltrated the Free Energy community.
 
Only then will any attempt to release world changing information succeed 
and not be suppressed.
 
  (mailers identity deleted for privacy)

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At 03:54 PM 08/03/99 -0400, Knuke wrote:
>
>Another thing that I was wondering, I had a brief exchange with Gary Hawkins
>not long ago regarding his work with high voltage arc experiments.  He said
>that he had done a write up of the protocol, and published it in
>Extraordinary Science.  

Did he perhaps mention what issue that might be? I used to be a subscriber
of Extraordinary Science for a couple of years.

Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:08:41 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:14:27 -0400
Message-ID: <19990803221427468.AAA259@mail.lcia.com@lizard>
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>	Hi,
>I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
>interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
>recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
>hands on way.  
>
>Thanks for your time,
>Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org
>
Edmond Scientific has some good kits
http://www.edsci.com/

Radio Shack has some good kits and books
http://www.radioshack.com/

Grainger has a basic electronics book that I've found to be useful.
http://www.grainger.com/

There are a bunch of other ones like the Amatuer Radio Handbook, and the TTL
Cookbook that I've wanted to get, and you can probably find them at
Borders.com or Amazon.com

I pretty much find whatever I need on the web though, these days.
www.repairfaq.org is one of my favorite places.  Tons of stuff in there.
Bill Beaty's site  is pretty great, too.  http://www.amasci.com/  And don't
worry if you get lost in there, Bill designed it that way for a reason, I'm
almost positive.:)

Hope this helps.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:17:21 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW\Tesla Mag
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:23:04 -0400
Message-ID: <19990803222304250.AAA275@mail.lcia.com@lizard>
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>At 03:54 PM 08/03/99 -0400, Knuke wrote:
>>
>>Another thing that I was wondering, I had a brief exchange with Gary Hawkins
>>not long ago regarding his work with high voltage arc experiments.  He said
>>that he had done a write up of the protocol, and published it in
>>Extraordinary Science.  
>
>Did he perhaps mention what issue that might be? I used to be a subscriber
>of Extraordinary Science for a couple of years.
>
>Colin Quinney

He said that it was in 1996 but he couldn't remember what month.  Maybe it's
on that website, I have to check that still.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:41:18 1999
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From: Zac Miller <aces79@mindspring.com>
Subject: Learning Electronics
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	,
	Much thanks to everyone that replied to my learning electronics
message...I'm sure your information will be most helpful.
	BTW, does anyone have the photograph of the pyramid shaped metal object
atop a tesla coil, with a double helix of blue electricty/energy coming out
the top? I lost it and would love to download another copy.
	Thanks agian,
Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 15:54:22 1999
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Subject: A Question!
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:55:37 -0500
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I know this must have been answered one of those days I skipped class or in
the last page of one of those chapters I did not read, but I need an answer
to complete a thought process.

(A) Does the earths magnetic field rotate in sync with the earth ? If so
then would it not be possible for a coil and load in space to produce an
induced current ? If not and the field is stationary and the earth rotates
within, why does a fixed coil and load on earth not produce an induced
current ?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 16:20:20 1999
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Subject: Re: e-mail from another freenrg list member
Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi.

It's ironic; I first found out about YOU and your work from
frequenting Jerry's BBS. How about that? Not very good work
supressing there...

Anyway, it's clear you two have some issues. I'm in no
position to judge, so I won't. Please, we welcome you to
discuss alternative energy issues. Do so. Be aware, your
anonymous friends comments can well apply here, you should
expect critical commentary concerning your work. Thats why (some)
folks come here. Anyway, please stay focused and post on
your work. You'll get relevant feedback.

K.


At 05:27 PM 8/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I am convinced that Jerry Decker's true agenda is to suppress 
>Free Energy. I have been keeping an eye on him and 9 out of 10 
>of his words are spent on attempting to debunk and put down 
>researchers and their ideas. 
> 
>I hope 2000 will bring in a new millenia of open minded researchers. 
>I hope Bill Beaty is one of these.
> 
>We need more of these kind of people to help drive out the Jerry Deckers 
>that have infiltrated the Free Energy community.
> 
>Only then will any attempt to release world changing information succeed 
>and not be suppressed.
> 
>  (mailers identity deleted for privacy)
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 16:25:58 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: REVERSE ENERGY FLOW\Tesla Mag
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:30:21 -0400
Message-ID: <19990803233021421.AAA231@mail.lcia.com@lizard>
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I wrote:
>He said that it was in 1996 but he couldn't remember what month.  Maybe it's
>on that website, I have to check that still.
>
>Knuke

I looked at that website, and don't think that the article is there.  They
don't list the author's name with the articles in the index, so it's hard to
tell.  Also Exotic Research and Extraordinary Research may be two different
mags altogether.  Anyone know for sure?

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 16:33:18 1999
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <Red-Leader@[38.244.146.2]>
From: "Red-Leader" <Red-Leader@dabney.com>
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> (A) Does the earths magnetic field rotate in sync with the earth ? If so
> then would it not be possible for a coil and load in space to produce an
> induced current ? If not and the field is stationary and the earth rotates
> within, why does a fixed coil and load on earth not produce an induced
> current ?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the field does rotate 
with the earth and a coil and load in space do produce electricity. I 
recall NASA had problems working with tethered satalites because the 
current generated in the tethering cable was enough to make it heat 
up and break or even melt. I believe they've since found ways of 
countering it but why they didn't look into powering satalites that 
way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.



    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 16:49:30 1999
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>Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the field does rotate
>with the earth and a coil and load in space do produce electricity. I
>recall NASA had problems working with tethered satalites because the
>current generated in the tethering cable was enough to make it heat
>up and break or even melt. I believe they've since found ways of
>countering it but why they didn't look into powering satalites that
>way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.


Either the line sparked and that very small portion vaporized, or a paint
chip got it.

I think NASA decided it was a spark. It is my understanding that work is
still on the drawing boards for additional experiments, possibly from ISS.
Work in space takes lots of planning and paperwork, especially with the
budget cuts and long turnaround time on shuttles.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 17:10:01 1999
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:14:34 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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> 
> Hi.
> 
> It's ironic; I first found out about YOU and your work from
> frequenting Jerry's BBS. How about that? Not very good work
> supressing there...


Jerry was a nice guy back when I met him at the 1996 Tesla
Symposium. He even treated me to breakfast. I know there is
still someone decent under the bitterness.


> 
> Anyway, it's clear you two have some issues. I'm in no
> position to judge, so I won't. Please, we welcome you to
> discuss alternative energy issues. Do so. Be aware, your
> anonymous friends comments can well apply here, you should
> expect critical commentary concerning your work. Thats why (some)
> folks come here. Anyway, please stay focused and post on
> your work. You'll get relevant feedback.
> 
> K.


I am open to CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I will stay focused so long
as stones are not thrown at me. If stones are hurled I will defend
myself. The same goes if I see stones being thrown at someone else
and they are afraid to defend themselves. Even so, I will try to
defend with tact and refrain from flaming.


     -Bruce A. Perreault

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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:08:01 -1000
Subject: Floating magnet picture - JPG, ~20K
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3016534081_8339980_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Here's a JPG of how I can get a magnet to float between my fingers. That's a
larger ceramic magnet in a steel shell on top of the wood, and a SMOT magnet
between my fingers. Couldn't get a true floater and take a picture at the
same time, but this shows how to do it. Get the magnet centered under the
larger magnet where you feel no forces, and *very* carefully let go. Your
fingers always impart some small momentum when you let go (wipe them dry and
clean the magnet first), and if you're off or the momentum is too great the
magnet floats up or down against one of your fingers. But if you do it just
right, the magnet will do an oscillation in the air between your fingers
which decays towards a center point between your fingers - that's how you
know you've got a good floater.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI
--MS_Mac_OE_3016534081_8339980_MIME_Part
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--MS_Mac_OE_8324353_3016534081_MIME_Part
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 17:53:01 1999
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Message-ID: <37A78ECC.70E2F3B1@keelynet.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:52:28 -0500
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Organization: KeelyNet
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Subject: Re: e-mail from another freenrg list member
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X-Mailing-List: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com> archive/latest/11257
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Shall we get down to brass tacks?  Without the Microsoft and simpleton
acolytes and the sniveling anonymous (typical) remails (if they ever
existed, stand for yourself, otherwise shut the heck up).

With regard to FREE ENERGY and CLAIMS of inside knowledge that has led
to a WORKING DEVICE.

Yep, let us certainly impugn any and all who ask for PROOF of claims.

An idea, a theory, a concept is one thing, but to say it works, going so
far as to SELL PLANS that STATE IT WORKS, knowing it is a lie and a
fraud, that is wrong and dishonest.

The wheel is going full circle, reality checks are in place for many
these days and claimants or frauds should be countenanced for PROOF.

All those people who bought those 'radiant bs' plans, then spent all
that time and money trying to build it, TRUSTING the word of the
'author', (I was drawn into it then too, for which I am eternally sorry)
then to be told 'they didn't do it right' and FINALLY, guess who slipped
up and admitted it had NEVER BEEN BUILT and thus had never worked.

The result was a narrowly averted class action lawsuit against guess who
and the now defunct ITS...and who recommended to NOT sue, let it go, let
people find out for themselves and pass the word around. We need to
clean our own houses, to REQUIRE that people who make claims PROVE them
or shut up and go away.

That approach applies to anyone making claims of a working device that
doesn't, selling plans that don't work or promoting themselves and their
delusions for money, living off the trust and naivete of others.

So, buy the claims, buy the plans, let those who can't or won't make it
in the real world live off your income and trust, but don't be surprised
or disappointed when those plans don't work.

Free energy plans indeed, that's why we are knee deep in free energy
machines everywhere we turn.  These successful designs that work so well
are so ubiquitous that we don't even RECOGNIZE THEM
anymore...puhleeze...

Some of us WILL be involved in making free energy and gravity control a
REALITY, not a scam or fraud just looking for your money.

I knew the tail caught in the trap would yield more screams...never
fails...I'm not selling anything, I work for my income, just like most
people on this list...been actively involved for some 30 years, 15 or so
of those public and FREE, inciting/instigating/inspiring MANY others in
this now burgeoning field....do you think guess who works for income or
has in YEARS...nope, its much too easy to snow people with claims....

So, enough, it is a free energy list and this post refers to claims and
scams...history speaks for itself....without 'nu' age interpretations.

Get back to something useful, IDEAS for CERTAIN, but one day, a working
device that everyone will be able to prove for themselves.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:00:40 1999
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Zac Miller wrote:

>         Hi,
> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
> interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
> recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
> hands on way.
>

Three books (actually 5) that anyone thinking about experimenting with exotic
gadgets/ 'weird energies' should have:

Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill
Building Scientific Apparatus (a little bit about everything: optics, vacuum,
glass-work etc)
R.Feyman's 3volume Lectures on Physics.

Another really good source of experimental gizmo information is Review of
Scientific Istruments. It is kind of expensive but most university libraries
have it.

Good luck.

Alik S.

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<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>Zac Miller wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi,
<BR>I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
<BR>interesting and am interested in Tesla.&nbsp; I was wondering if anyone
could
<BR>recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in
a
<BR>hands on way.
<BR><A HREF="http://www.asi.org"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
Three books (actually 5) that anyone thinking about experimenting with
exotic gadgets/ 'weird energies' should have:

<P>Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill
<BR>Building Scientific Apparatus (a little bit about everything: optics,
vacuum, glass-work etc)
<BR>R.Feyman's 3volume Lectures on Physics.

<P>Another really good source of experimental gizmo information is Review
of Scientific Istruments. It is kind of expensive but most university libraries
have it.

<P>Good luck.

<P>Alik S.</HTML>

--------------A70FB151AFC205A9E1D1C494--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:02:58 1999
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From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A Question!
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 01:02:07 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:31:41 +0000, Red-Leader wrote:
[snip]
>way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.
[snip]
The problem here is that it acts as a magnetic brake on the satellite,
slowing it down. So all you are really doing is converting the kinetic
energy of the satellite into electrical energy. That means you need to
burn fuel to compensate, so you might as well burn the fuel in a fuel
cell and produce electricity directly, and more efficiently.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:12:03 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: A Question!
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:17:51 -0400
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Emmett wrote:
>Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the field does rotate 
>with the earth and a coil and load in space do produce electricity. I 
>recall NASA had problems working with tethered satalites because the 
>current generated in the tethering cable was enough to make it heat 
>up and break or even melt. I believe they've since found ways of 
>countering it but why they didn't look into powering satalites that 
>way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.

Hi Emmett,

I thought I had read the same thing, but went back and checked, and I think
that what NASA was doing with the tether/rope concept was something
different.  From what I gathered, the tether was supposed to pick up charged
particles from the upper atmosphere (ozone layer), and use that to power
some low orbiting satelites.  NASA maintains a pretty good database of
articles at http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/research.htm if you want to read
more.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:28:28 1999
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Message-ID: <37A7973B.FC2D898D@harti.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 03:28:27 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
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To: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        Newman-L Mailing List <newman-l@emachine.com>
Subject: Big update on Methernitha Testatika !
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http://www.overunity.com/testatika/

A group of over 30 engineers have visited Methernitha lately.
First hand report of a visitor !

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:38:10 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Floating magnet picture - JPG, ~20K
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:43:57 -0400
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>Here's a JPG of how I can get a magnet to float between my fingers. That's a
>larger ceramic magnet in a steel shell on top of the wood, and a SMOT magnet
>between my fingers. Couldn't get a true floater and take a picture at the
>same time, but this shows how to do it. Get the magnet centered under the
>larger magnet where you feel no forces, and *very* carefully let go. Your
>fingers always impart some small momentum when you let go (wipe them dry and
>clean the magnet first), and if you're off or the momentum is too great the
>magnet floats up or down against one of your fingers. But if you do it just
>right, the magnet will do an oscillation in the air between your fingers
>which decays towards a center point between your fingers - that's how you
>know you've got a good floater.
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>Attachment Converted: C:\INTERNET\EUDORA\MAGLEV1.JPG

Looks pretty cool Rick, do you thing that the oscillation would be enough to
power a small lever or something?  I know it wouldn't be the salvation of
humanity, but a clock run by it would be neat desktop demo.  No Y2K hassles,
either!

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 18:54:51 1999
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Robin wrote:
> The problem here is that it acts as a magnetic brake on the satellite,
> slowing it down. So all you are really doing is converting the kinetic
> energy of the satellite into electrical energy. That means you need to
> burn fuel to compensate, so you might as well burn the fuel in a fuel
> cell and produce electricity directly, and more efficiently.

You're right, the coil working against the magnetic field would slow 
it down. In the absence of all other friction it wouldn't slow it 
down much but most satellites would get screwed up by even a little 
deviation in their course, speed, etc. 



    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 19:11:18 1999
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 22:17:27 -0400
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Jerry,

I am assuming you are still whining about those chlorine tubes.
Just because you couldn't get them to work doesant mean that
others have not been sucessful with them. In fact, I gained a
life long associate and friend from those plans. You see, he
was sucessful with those plans. He didn't get a whole lot of
power but saw the concept as a stepping stone. As a team, many 
doors have been opened for us. The star-mode is just one example.
In fact Jerry, we will be offering several products soon. 

Yup, J.W. of the International Tesla Society had made some pretty
tall claims. At the start I didn't want to go on his radio show,
let alone go in front of people and expose my research publicaly. 
My first radio show J.W. announces that I have plans to sell!
To make this short... there were no plans, all of my research
data was stored in my computer... J.W. calls a few days later and
says that he needs some plans shipped to him... what plans?
Needless to say, I printed out scores of data from my computer,
copied relevant articles and patents, even drew up rough plans of
one of my chlorine tube experiments. Yes, I build the damned thing!
In fact, a neighbor helped find a vacuum leak in my copper tubing.
Next, off to the copy shop, print up the papers, put them in office
folders and off to J.W. they went... and so begain the biggest
mistake of my carrier... Decker hasn't got off my case since. I could
go on and on the many rollar coaster rides that J.W. put me through
over the years putting words into my mouth. Hard lessons were learned
and it has made me a very out-spoken person in this field. Whoever
attended
the Exotic Research Conference last week knows that I am not playing
games with people. I call it the way it is.

Who the hell do you think you are Jerry? Take a good look in the mirror!
What have you done for this field? Show me your fruits!


      -Bruce A. Perreault



Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Shall we get down to brass tacks?  Without the Microsoft and simpleton
> acolytes and the sniveling anonymous (typical) remails (if they ever
> existed, stand for yourself, otherwise shut the heck up).
> 
> With regard to FREE ENERGY and CLAIMS of inside knowledge that has led
> to a WORKING DEVICE.
> 
> Yep, let us certainly impugn any and all who ask for PROOF of claims.
> 
> An idea, a theory, a concept is one thing, but to say it works, going so
> far as to SELL PLANS that STATE IT WORKS, knowing it is a lie and a
> fraud, that is wrong and dishonest.
> 
> The wheel is going full circle, reality checks are in place for many
> these days and claimants or frauds should be countenanced for PROOF.
> 
> All those people who bought those 'radiant bs' plans, then spent all
> that time and money trying to build it, TRUSTING the word of the
> 'author', (I was drawn into it then too, for which I am eternally sorry)
> then to be told 'they didn't do it right' and FINALLY, guess who slipped
> up and admitted it had NEVER BEEN BUILT and thus had never worked.
> 
> The result was a narrowly averted class action lawsuit against guess who
> and the now defunct ITS...and who recommended to NOT sue, let it go, let
> people find out for themselves and pass the word around. We need to
> clean our own houses, to REQUIRE that people who make claims PROVE them
> or shut up and go away.
> 
> That approach applies to anyone making claims of a working device that
> doesn't, selling plans that don't work or promoting themselves and their
> delusions for money, living off the trust and naivete of others.
> 
> So, buy the claims, buy the plans, let those who can't or won't make it
> in the real world live off your income and trust, but don't be surprised
> or disappointed when those plans don't work.
> 
> Free energy plans indeed, that's why we are knee deep in free energy
> machines everywhere we turn.  These successful designs that work so well
> are so ubiquitous that we don't even RECOGNIZE THEM
> anymore...puhleeze...
> 
> Some of us WILL be involved in making free energy and gravity control a
> REALITY, not a scam or fraud just looking for your money.
> 
> I knew the tail caught in the trap would yield more screams...never
> fails...I'm not selling anything, I work for my income, just like most
> people on this list...been actively involved for some 30 years, 15 or so
> of those public and FREE, inciting/instigating/inspiring MANY others in
> this now burgeoning field....do you think guess who works for income or
> has in YEARS...nope, its much too easy to snow people with claims....
> 
> So, enough, it is a free energy list and this post refers to claims and
> scams...history speaks for itself....without 'nu' age interpretations.
> 
> Get back to something useful, IDEAS for CERTAIN, but one day, a working
> device that everyone will be able to prove for themselves.
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 19:47:13 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Michael T Huffman wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone still had contact with McGuinniss, or any of the
> other members of that Society.  It seems like a such an incredible waste to
> have the content of those articles condemned to being committed to a limited
> edition of paper issues.  I realize that the magazine was probably
> copyrighted and intended to provide needed revenue for the Society, but I
> wonder if the former owners of the magazine would mind having the articles
> scanned, and put up on the web for all to read, now that the Tesla Society
> has been effectively done in.


Most of the people who belonged to the Tesla Society are now
Exotic Research members. Steve Elswick who was once the President
of the Tesla Society has revived the society and its aims through
Exotic Research. The conference last week was the best that I have
ever attended. Around 150 attended and it was like a family gathering.


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 20:28:30 1999
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> 
> Interesting.  It looks like I'm not very up to date on the politics of this,
> but that's OK, I'd just as soon stay out of it.  I was mainly wondering
> where I could get a copy of Gary Hawkins' article that was published in
> Extraordinary Science.  Is that different from the Exotic Research
> publication?  Do you have anything published about your work on the web, so
> that I could familiarize myself with it?


Do you have the month and year that the article was published?
I have a few back issues that I can check.

Yes, Exotic Research is a whole new ball game. It is a whole 
new entity. Ask Steve for a sample magazine...

My website -> www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html


      -Bruce A. Perreault

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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
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Hi Rick,
At 11:40 PM 8/2/99 -1000, you wrote:
>Wow - just tried this, and it's not really hard to do at all. Takes a steady
>hand though. I used a large disc shaped ceramic for the upper magnet,
>sitting on a board. Both a tiny neodymium and a standard grade 5 ceramic
>SMOT magnet worked off my hands and fingers. The SMOT brick shaped magnet
>was easier I think due to its larger mass as tiny hand movements cause the
>thing to jump up and down. Hold it bewtween two fingers under the large
>magnet, center it in the neutral weight zone and just gently widen the gap
>and see light both above and below. And I remember seeing that for the first
>time above a superconductor and thinking it was magic. This is really cool!
>
Is your SMOT magnet the approx 1x3x5 cm available from Radio Shack? I am
trying 2 Neodym magnets, one much larger and fixed. I hold the smaller one
with one finger in the attraction zone with the finger between the 2. As I
slowly move it farther away slowly, the upward force decreases. It ALMOST
hovers before it falls away. I also tried one finger below the small magnet
moving it toward the neutral zone, as well as fingers on both sides. Any
other tips?

Haven't tried carbon yet, but the candle wax I tested was slightly
paramagnetic, not diamagnetic as required. I have tried copper between the
magnets which I measure as diamagnetic (or eddy current repulsion?).
I also tested water, which I could not measure.
-Dave

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From: Keasy@aol.com
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In a message dated 8/3/99 4:33:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Red-Leader@dabney.com writes:

> 
>  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the field does rotate 
>  with the earth and a coil and load in space do produce electricity. I 
>  recall NASA had problems working with tethered satalites because the 
>  current generated in the tethering cable was enough to make it heat 
>  up and break or even melt. I believe they've since found ways of 
>  countering it but why they didn't look into powering satalites that 
>  way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.
>  
I think that's right, but I have always thought the reason they didn't use 
that to power satellites was because there would be a force causing the 
satellite to slow down -- (the energy has to come from somewhere, and at 
least some is by reducing the satellite/wire velocity).
                                                                 Ken

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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:55:37 -0500, atglab wrote:

> I know this must have been answered one of those days I skipped class or
in
> the last page of one of those chapters I did not read, but I need an
answer
> to complete a thought process.
Huh, Im surprised no one mentioned the gyromagnetic ratio? I think Ampere
wrote on this in experimental research,or perhaps Faraday, but I dont recall
how much is theory and what is proven. Some of the electrons in the
ferromagnetic material are not paired by opposite spins and these cohered
spins in one direction produce the observed magnetic fields, and again if I
am not mistaken this electron spin around the nucleus to explain
ferromagnetism was called Amperian current flow. Now spinning electrons do
have inertia And this accounts for the inertial effects of magnetic fields,
particularly in this case where a magnetised material is spun on the axis of
its poles. As may be recalled no induced currents are created by a loop
around this spin.
    Each of those spins act like individual gyroscopes
Now this magnetic effect of translation through space by spin is more
pronounced on the edges of the cylinder that spins then the center which
might not be affected, (my physics is shaky here). But what these magnetic
gyroscopes do is pivot just like an ordinary gyroscope would pivot when
placed on the outside of a cylinder and placed in motion as the cylinder
spins. The gyroscopic precession of spin that occurs  in these
"magneto-gyrosopes" also means that this tilt changes the direction or
orientation of the magnetic field lines leaving the material. Thus spinning
the material along the polar axis induces a gyroscopic reaction that makes
the field lines exibit inertia because even though the material spins the
field lines do not after no further acceleration occurs. However during
acceleration or de-accelaration this effect can be measured and is known as
the gyromagnetic effect. Look in a scientific encyclopedia for  the proofs
in these tests and a better explantion than I made.
   Of course this is quite remarkable, if my interpretation is correct this
means that a stable spin  of this cylinder produces NO MOVING FIELD LINES IN
SPACE. This is noted by the result that no emf is generated on a closed loop
at right angles to the supposed moving field lines. This is further
illustrated in those theories by the fact that even if they were crossing
the field lines, no amount of actual flux change would be occuring in the
closed loop, therefore no generated emf should occur.


> (A) Does the earths magnetic field rotate in sync with the earth ? If so
> then would it not be possible for a coil and load in space to produce an
> induced current ? If not and the field is stationary and the earth
rotates
> within, why does a fixed coil and load on earth not produce an induced
> current ?
I agree that the second circumstance should hold, which could be the basis
for prentice patent, and space energy reciever schemes. But I also think
that the earths magnetic field is comparatively very weak  to earth
currents, and that a wire or "closed loop" to harness this voltage change
would be miniscule to any observers, if in fact not entirely ruled out by
the preceeding argument. In fact even if the loops were verticle instead of
horizontal as made in the analogy and one had loops going around the north
and south poles the loops would still pick up nothing because no flux change
within the loop is occuring from this field line rotation, and the wire
would be interacting parallel and not orthogonally as the case for most all
cases of induced emf.
   As to the case of the space shuttle tether, what makes anyone think those
effects occured at a geosynchronius orbit? The relative amounts of rotation
around the earth between the space shuttle and that naturally occuring 24
hours on earth shows a relative difference in which this magnetic
interaction would be considerably enhanced. Just my opinions ...
Sincerly Harvey D. Norris




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 23:30:26 1999
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Hi Stefan,

That is a Big update!  Any idea how Methernitha came to give such a
demonstration ?  ie How could one get into such a group of engineers
to get a closer look ?  How come you weren't there !?

As you may know, I visited Methernitha, but they weren't showing
anything, or even allowing the technical guys to be talked to.  It
seemed to me that they wanted to destroy the technology to prevent
it falling into the wrong hands by being stolen.  Mr Bosshart was
happy to answer any questions I could think of asking, but
unfortunately he is not very technical at all.  Do you think that
this event marks somewhat of an end to their efforts to suppress it?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 23:53:20 1999
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From: Trevmaniac@aol.com
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Subject: Re: A toroidal overunity generator claim !
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I wonder if you can find out a bit more about the test machine Stefan?
Dimensions of toroid?
Was it laminated?
How many coils?
What wire size?
Type of magnets?
How was the coil output measured?

The performance figures are amazing if true.  I would like to use a 
'switched' reluctance motor to drive this generator.  Each coil on the 
generator could drive a corresponding radial coil on the motor.  No switches 
are necessary.  The feedback circuits would be unbustable and performance 
would go through the roof!

Does anyone have a rotor assembly they don't want?  Or care to work on a 
joint project?  I live in the Seattle area.

Trevor Sleath
425  335-4394

 




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In Response to Harvey,
Try the Einstein de Haas experiment. I'm a bit busy to follow this thread.
You knocked the idea about satelites and the earth quickly, magnetic
braking. The EH experiment I think shows the collapse of aligned spins in
ferromagnetic state when taken above Curie Point and the very real
consequence of macroscopic rotation of the sample.

BTW, does anybody know of gyromagneto effect as predicted by relativity.
Someone mentioned it to me. I've got a door wedge text on relativity
better check it out...
Remi.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 23:53:52 1999
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Subject: Re: Floating magnet picture - JPG, ~20K
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Knuke -

> Looks pretty cool Rick, do you thing that the oscillation would be enough to
> power a small lever or something?

The wobble is just left over momentum from either being slightly off the
perfect neutral plateau, or because a vibration in a finger gave it some
momentum when it was released. It quickly damps out from air friction and, I
would assume, hysteresis. It's just that the little damped wobble is a sign
it's successfully seeking that slight "dimple" in the fields where it can
hover with stability as opposed to falling or rising to your lower or upper
finger.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug  3 23:58:18 1999
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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Dave -

> Is your SMOT magnet the approx 1x3x5 cm available from Radio Shack?

Not sure if Radio Shack has them. The magnet in the picture is 6mm x 9mm x
14mm.

> I am
> trying 2 Neodym magnets, one much larger and fixed. I hold the smaller one
> with one finger in the attraction zone with the finger between the 2. As I
> slowly move it farther away slowly, the upward force decreases. It ALMOST
> hovers before it falls away. I also tried one finger below the small magnet
> moving it toward the neutral zone, as well as fingers on both sides. Any
> other tips?

Start with both fingers touching above and below as in the photo. Find the
neutral point, and then *very carefully* spread your fingers. I have to
brace my wrist against something and hold my breath.

> Haven't tried carbon yet, but the candle wax I tested was slightly
> paramagnetic, not diamagnetic as required. I have tried copper between the
> magnets which I measure as diamagnetic (or eddy current repulsion?).
> I also tested water, which I could not measure.
> -Dave


Pepto Bismol tablets might work too.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 01:04:52 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 01:02:12 PDT
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>	Hi,
>I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the discussions
>interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if anyone could
>recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of electronics in a
>hands on way.

>Thanks for your time,
>Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org
Edmond Scientific has a fantastic kit... it has 200 simple circuits and is 
in the shape of a brief case... it is a bit pricy but well worth it :)
http://www.edsci.com/


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 01:12:20 1999
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>
>Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the field does rotate
>with the earth and a coil and load in space do produce electricity. I
>recall NASA had problems working with tethered satalites because the
>current generated in the tethering cable was enough to make it heat
>up and break or even melt. I believe they've since found ways of
>countering it but why they didn't look into powering satalites that
>way I don't know. Seems like it would be cheaper than solar panels.

solar panels on satalites are just window dressing... there nuclear! just 
don't say it too loud...


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 01:39:50 1999
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I agree Rick it dose look really cool!!!

>Looks pretty cool Rick, do you thing that the oscillation would be enough 
>to
>power a small lever or something?  I know it wouldn't be the salvation of
>humanity, but a clock run by it would be neat desktop demo.  No Y2K 
>hassles,
>either!
but knuke.... the oscillations are not usable in my opinion... they are just 
vibration ... now if you could just harness vibration for your clock... just 
think a passing truck could wind you clock????
Timothy...


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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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Subject: Re: A toroidal overunity generator claim !
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On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:30:18 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> Hi All,
> a toroidal overunity generator
> has been build according simular to figure 1 at:
> 
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru/ph-machine.htm
> 
> (Not by Mr. Frolov in this case , I just use this picture
> for reference, the source wants to stay anonymous,
> until his patent application is done and university
> verification tests will be done)
> 
> The claims are:
> 1200 Watts coil out with about 1076.4 Watts in into the driving motor
> at 3450 RPM.
> 
> > 8 amps @117volts at noload
Stefan had wrote a off list description of this device to 4 of the freenrg-l
memebers including myself. It is hard to understand without a diagram but
seeing it now I understand and remain dubious. It reminded me of Butch
Lafonts effort in using an elliptical toroid but in this case the toroid is
round. In my reply I noted that the device must have the necessary drawback
that not even considering the lenz law force that hinders a rotating magnet
which is an essential complement of all  true motors and generators, this
device is inherently designed with the flaw that its rotation of the
magnetic rotor is hindered by the simple fact of magnetic attraction to the
supposed ferrite ring used as the path of least magnetic reluctance. Thus
here we can see that this is the case since the input with NO load is stated
at 8 amps @117volts=936 possible watts maximum( I use this terminology to
avoid phase angle confusion, and is entirely appropriate since this
represents the maximum power expenditure,and any arguments to the contrary
only reveal that less actual energy was expended)
> > 9.2 amps @117 volts at full load
This then indicates that the magnetic rotor was now encountering more
resistive force than was initially found with no load! If no lenz law action
is occuring why has this occurred! As I noted  in my reply to Stefan before,
which I carelessly did not bookmark, because the ring is the path of least
reluctance, once the field lines have entered the ring they become parallel
to any coil on the ring and only react at 90 degree angles exactly at the
point where the field lines enter and exit the ring. Perhaps the measurement
of 1200 watts output might occur right exactly at the specific time the
poles cross this coil segment, but with only two small segments this average
is not overunity. Furthermore the ACTUAL flux change as a whole on the
entire ring is zero in this deceptive flux movement. 
> 
> The output of about 1200 Watts 
> is already a total overunity operation !
> 
> 
> As they just increase the input power by about 140 Watts
> only between idle and load state and they get
> 1200 Watts output it seems indeed a case,
> where Lenz law is violated ! (the driving motor
> is inefficient in this case)
> 
> This generator also has NO motor effect !
When we start talking about motor/generator actions on the same equipment it
is essential to realize the when a motor is operated backwards as a
generator the position of the magnetic rotor when it delivers maximum
electrical power as a generator corresponds in the same part of rotation to
when a motor draws zero power in reverse application.  While difficult to
comprehend this simply means that these functions are 90 degrees out of
phase. However in this case what is being said is that when a load is drawn
from the output coil the resistive force to the magnets rotation increases,
but in the inverse example nothing happens. I do not think nature makes
these one way valves without some kind of further modification than is
explained.
> if you supply current to the coil, the permanent magnet
> in the center will not rotate, cause the flux just stays
> inside the toroid core !
> 
> There you can see, that the back drag does not influence
> the mechanical rotation of the magnet !
> 
> Regards, Stefan.
But yes again that is only the inverse side of the argument, one side of the
coin. It has been shown by data that the motor encounters more drag when
output is extracted.
Sincerly
Harvey D. Norris




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 02:40:49 1999
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Subject: Re(2): A Question!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: J.F.Grant@shu.ac.uk (John F. GRANT)
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The issue of power from tethers is one which NASA has been investigating quite rigoriously, have a look at:
http://infinity.msfc.nasa.gov/Public/ps01/ps02/space.html
http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast15oct98_1.htm

There are many ways of using tethers in space (see above) but the ones which activly use a magnetic field are quite interesting
because they can provide both thrust and drag WITHOUT the use of any propellant - just electricity.

To para-phrase rather than getting rid of the solar panels you can use them to directly boost the orbit, if you pump
electricity into the tether (from you solar panels or nuclear power plant?) this then increases the replusion between the earth
and your craft and you can increase the altitude of the craft.  However,  if you draw power from the tether the craft lowers
it's orbit - useful if you want to bring a vehicle down quickly or if the vehicle has intermittent higher power requirements -
i.e. when you need power you draw power from the tether (by lowering the orbit) and when the solar panels are providing an
excess of power you use it to take the craft back up to it's original higher orbit.   

Obviously this system only works in the Earths magnetic field - I think there is very real consideration of using this system
for the space station it'll be used to make fine tunings to its orbit (and generate extra electricity at times of greatest
need) the savings are in the billions of dollars over the stations life compaired to lifting fuel for these obital corrections
and extra power.

TTFN,
          John.F.
*************************************************
John F. Grant
Research Associate
Resources Research Unit
Science Park (Unit 12)
Sheffield Hallam University
City campus
Sheffield S1 1 WB

Tel : 0114 225 4034
Fax: 0114 225 4496
e-mail: j.f.grant@shu.ac.uk
*****************************************
"Never be angry when fools act like fools,
It's better when they identify themselves,
It removes so much uncertainty"
                                           Orson Scott Card

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 09:04:05 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: v.hennig@online.de
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:44:34 -0700
Subject: The Magnetical Electron Driver
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Thank you for telling about your very interesting experiment.

What voltage did you measure across the aluminum rod with no magnetic
wound around it ?

I am worried about contact potential differences because of disimilar
metals.

This sounds like Hans Coler and his Magnetstromapparat.   Very
interesting if it is confirmed to be correct but other possible causes
must be checked first.

Best Wishes,

Tim Vaughan
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 09:07:38 1999
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Wayne Decker <jwdatwork@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: e-mail from another freenrg list member
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As I remember it, the ITS (International Tesla
Society) had a newsletter called the Tesla Journal or
such.

When Steve Elsewicke was still with them, they changed
to the Extraordinary Science name for the journal.  I
remember prior recommendations to JW and Steve by
myself and I suspect many others that they EXPAND
their reports for not just Tesla but the many
overlapping areas.

Much the same is going on with Infinite Energy now,
with a recent letter to the editor from Robert Adams
(of Adams motor fame in New Zealand) asking them to
not focus solely on COLD FUSION, since energy comes in
many other forms equally or moreso of interest.

When Steve left ITS and moved away, they retained the
Extraordinary Science name and continued on with ever
increasing financial problems.

The word is that Dennis Lee (of heat pump infamy)
bought the remaining ITS assets for $5,000 from the
bankrupt ITS, so it is possible he also got the rights
to the articles and name, though that would be
questionable (as with anything Lee is involved with).

Steve publishes his own journal as 'Exotic Research'
and his website is at http://www.exoticresearch.com/

I have urged him also to get away from the conspiracy
and patriot material hoping he will move back to alt
technology, looking for the real stuff, not the
claimants.  The gee whiz, working device claims were
there for the conference...as in;

WORKING ANTIGRAVITY DEVICES (probably not)
FREE ENERGY FROM AIR (nice touch generic claim)
Suppressed ELECTROMEDICINE (by who?)

"This is particularly unfortunate (regarding inventors
not having a 'credible' platform) when the invention
is a viable technology with working prototypes."

Gotta love that, working prototypes. 

Well, I realize its marketing to get people to attend
and if anyone really believes they will see something
that works, that they can buy or build, good luck.  

I've been to many conferences, wonderful events for
socializing and meeting people of like interests,
however, only one had a machine that actually ran on
its own, not continuous in the demo environment but it
did run using heat pump technology to produce
mechanical rotation (Earl Sclictig as Global
Sciences).

Its this wide eyed, naive approach to life where we
let ourselves lose it.  Kind of like the 22 year old
guy on Jerry Springer whose older blonde girlfriend
bought him a computer.  He promptly began charging
cybersex calls to her credit cards. On the show he
finally met the woman he'd been 'chatting' with on the
net and he SERIOUSLY thought she was in love or at
least interested in him. She honestly told him its my
job, she had no interest and he was
dumbfounded...well, DUH! 

Same thing for advertising, claims and hyped
expectations...big grain, heck, BLOCK of salt
required. 
-----------------
Now, now, blaming the chlorine scam all on JW of
course, how convenient, how novel, how original, how
easy to have your arm twisted hard enough to subvert
all sense of honesty and truth FOR SALES.

> J.W. calls a few days later and says that he needs 
> some plans shipped to him... what plans?

QUICK, make up something to SELL while the iron is
HOT!!! Who cares if its lies and untruth, its MONEY!

> Needless to say, I printed out scores of data from
> my computer, copied relevant articles and patents, 
> even drew up rough plans of one of my chlorine tube 
> experiments.

Whup it up, let's see 30 pages at a dollar a page,
costs about .03 per page...easy money by any terms and
no one will DARE to question it cause you SAY it
WORKS, so it MUST be TRUE.

> Just because you couldn't get them to work doesant
> mean that others have not been sucessful with them. 
> In fact, I gained a life long associate and friend 
> from those plans. You see, he was sucessful with 
> those plans.

Ahh, back to the myth that the chlorine tube worked!!!

That's why we are so swamped with reports of
successful chlorine based devices, products and
information on the Net and in the media about this
revolutionary, 'set the world on fire' technology, and
explains why you must continually jump from one thing
to another...since one success begets
another....<g>.....says much about what WORKED and
what is hopefully the next big money maker, never mind
that its only a claim....no need to have to prove it.

Heard this before, but its nice to see it again for
the records;
> In fact Jerry, we will be offering several products
> soon. 

Products....all more claims of free energy devices or
working plans no doubt, but more likely just the usual
dredge material that sites like yours rely on to
gather easy, undeserved income.  And BTW how long has
it been since you worked a real job without having to
rely on ripping people off?  

Let's see, this next time will it be a class action
suit or just individuals....no ITS buffer zone now, so
as a word of advice, THIS TIME be VERY CAREFUL in what
you claim.

And I'll make certain to save that products comment
like the one from last year saying a working device
would be shown...seem to recall a bet on that,
something like a case of beer?, in my favor and of
course, reneged on...have to look it up.....the
history clearly shows a pattern of bogus claims and
failures to produce.  

> What have you done for this field? Show me your
> fruits!
 
My 'fruits' do not hinge or rely on scamming personal
income from lies, deception and claims of
suppression/paranoia or blaming others for my faults. 


When I or any associates or friends really do have
something that we have tested and replicated, it will
be freely shared and it WILL WORK.  So, IMO, its
better to wait and keep looking for the REAL thing
than pop up every so often with yet another bogus
non-working, non proven, non testable claim hoping for
more suckers to buy into them.

===


=================================
Please respond to jdecker@keelynet.com
as I am writing from my work email of
jwdatwork@yahoo.com.........thanks!
=================================
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 09:51:36 1999
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:49:08 +0200
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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        Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Battery from Volker Hennig
References: <3.0.6.16.19990802224144.218fda9c@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990804080349.1fd7dd24@earthlink.net>
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> >Looks like this is a valid new way to tap
> >magnetic energy:
> >
> > http://bgph.de/vh/
> >
Please have a look at:
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/ortho1.htm

and especially at the lower part of the picture:
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/fig3.gif

The lower part of this picture
could be interpreted as
5 linearly stacked permanent magnet toroids 
(red colored circles) (VACE), 
where the A-Field
could generate an E-Field
(DC Voltage) on the conductor (blue color) ?

Is this possible ?

> >You can see the blue E-vektor, which is the DC voltage.
> >Maybe it just works with SPIRAL VACE elements ( wrapped iron wire
> >or iron audio tape).
> >
> Yes, method 1 was a magnetic conductor wrapped around the wire, such as the
> magnetic tape.
> Please look at method 2 at the bgph.de page as well, which is the second
> method (ferromagnetic cylinder), what do you think?


Well, there are ferrite permanent magnets which have a hole
inside them, but they are unfortunately magnetized from top to buttom.

Now you could probably heat them up red glowing to more than 500 degrees
Celsius over their Curie temperature and then cool them down, while
you put a very big copper wire through them and have a big DC current
flown through
the wire. 
Then if they get again below their Curie temperature they should be
magnetized,
like Volker needs them for his MED battery...
If you stack more of them each on top and have a wire through them,
you will have many VACE elements stacked up producing a DC voltage
inside the wire ?!

Maybe this would work ?

Best regards, Stefan.

> -Dave

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 10:53:34 1999
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:57:35 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Jerry Decker wrote:
>
> -----------------
> Now, now, blaming the chlorine scam all on JW of
> course, how convenient, how novel, how original, how
> easy to have your arm twisted hard enough to subvert
> all sense of honesty and truth FOR SALES.


It was not a "scam." It was something that the average 
experimentor could build. By the way, I was lucky to make 
$50.00 total. J.W. had a habit of copying materials that 
inventors sent to him and he was racking in the money for 
himself.


> 
> > J.W. calls a few days later and says that he needs
> > some plans shipped to him... what plans?
> 
> QUICK, make up something to SELL while the iron is
> HOT!!! Who cares if its lies and untruth, its MONEY!


The data that I compiled was a result many years of
collections. People got their monies worth and more.


> 
> > Needless to say, I printed out scores of data from
> > my computer, copied relevant articles and patents,
> > even drew up rough plans of one of my chlorine tube
> > experiments.
> 
> Whup it up, let's see 30 pages at a dollar a page,
> costs about .03 per page...easy money by any terms and
> no one will DARE to question it cause you SAY it
> WORKS, so it MUST be TRUE.


I recall it was about sixty pages. It was not the paper
that gave the collection being sold its value. It was the
time and money that made it worth the asking price. Not
one person asked for their money back. However, quite a
few people called me and said that they could not afford
the folder. Guess what? I sent them out for free!


> 
> > Just because you couldn't get them to work doesant
> > mean that others have not been sucessful with them.
> > In fact, I gained a life long associate and friend
> > from those plans. You see, he was sucessful with
> > those plans.
> 
> Ahh, back to the myth that the chlorine tube worked!!!


Your sick, get some help...


> 
> That's why we are so swamped with reports of
> successful chlorine based devices, products and
> information on the Net and in the media about this
> revolutionary, 'set the world on fire' technology, and
> explains why you must continually jump from one thing
> to another...since one success begets
> another....<g>.....says much about what WORKED and
> what is hopefully the next big money maker, never mind
> that its only a claim....no need to have to prove it.


We have real working devices... What do you have?
A bag of hot air?


> 
> Heard this before, but its nice to see it again for
> the records;
> > In fact Jerry, we will be offering several products
> > soon.
> 
> Products....all more claims of free energy devices or
> working plans no doubt, but more likely just the usual
> dredge material that sites like yours rely on to
> gather easy, undeserved income.  And BTW how long has
> it been since you worked a real job without having to
> rely on ripping people off?


You haven't a clue... my products will work better than
claimed... if a person is not happy with what they bought
there will be no problem returning their money as long as
the item is not damaged or tampered with.

I have worked hard to provide information free of charge
on my website. Alot money and long hours went into cd-roms.
The Tesla cd-rom for example costed over $500.00 in research,
many frustrating hours scanning in the patents, and converting
them to .pdf... To boot, contrary to what you think, orders
are not barreling in. These cd-roms are a tremendous service.
In fact, an engineer approached me at last weeks conference and
thanked me for finding these patents and making them available.
Because of these patents the Tesla Turbine is becoming a commercial
reality. I don't recall who this guy was but Reed Huish and 
Dr. Paul Brown was sitting right there.


> 
> Let's see, this next time will it be a class action
> suit or just individuals....no ITS buffer zone now, so
> as a word of advice, THIS TIME be VERY CAREFUL in what
> you claim.


I am proud of my accomplishments. I do not think that
you can say the same about yourself. All you offer is
pie in the sky half baked ideas, nothing tangible.
You are jealous seeing me succeed.


> 
> And I'll make certain to save that products comment
> like the one from last year saying a working device
> would be shown...seem to recall a bet on that,
> something like a case of beer?, in my favor and of
> course, reneged on...have to look it up.....the
> history clearly shows a pattern of bogus claims and
> failures to produce.


If I recall Jerry, Dr. Jones won that bet and it
was you who failed to send him that case of beer.
How many beers have you had to drink today Jerry?


> 
> > What have you done for this field? Show me your
> > fruits!
> 
> My 'fruits' do not hinge or rely on scamming personal
> income from lies, deception and claims of
> suppression/paranoia or blaming others for my faults.


That's a laugh... anyone can go through you Keelynet
posts and see just how delusional you really are.


> 
> When I or any associates or friends really do have
> something that we have tested and replicated, it will
> be freely shared and it WILL WORK.  So, IMO, its
> better to wait and keep looking for the REAL thing
> than pop up every so often with yet another bogus
> non-working, non proven, non testable claim hoping for
> more suckers to buy into them.


What I am doing is real and can be duplicated. What have
you built? A hot air machine? It seems to be working
real well.

Go away! Shoo! Don't waste anymore of our time... you are
nothing more than a distractor... go back into your hole!


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 12:08:05 1999
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Hi All,

Mr. Hans Holzherr,
who was one of the visitor removed a few bugs from my english
translation
and allowed me to name him, but without his email address.

Here is the new update text:

http://www.overunity.com/testatika/neweng.htm

Have a look again.

Thanks again.

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 12:40:26 1999
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At 09:06 AM 8/4/99 -0700, J Decker wrote:

>Suppressed ELECTROMEDICINE (by who?)


  Not sure what this does refer to, since there are
various types of electromedicine.  

   It is real (when done correctly) and it has been 
suppressed by a combination of lack of education and 
certain drug companies, and perhaps HMO's, who have 
less than full interest in curing some diseases.
 
   Mitchell Swartz



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 12:49:09 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:47:56 EDT
Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 8/3/99 9:48:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
ddameron@earthlink.net writes:

> As I
>  slowly move it farther away slowly, the upward force decreases. It ALMOST
>  hovers before it falls away. I also tried one finger below the small magnet
>  moving it toward the neutral zone, as well as fingers on both sides. Any
>  other tips?
How long has anyone been able to get a magnet to hoover, as suggested by 
Rick, before it falls down (or up)?  Are we talking fractions of a second, 
seconds, minutes ---- ?
                                                                              
          Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 13:03:26 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:01:22 EDT
Subject: STILL looking for toroidal magnets - sources???
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There has been a need for toroidal or disk-shaped magnets with the B field 
circular inside the magnet (VACE, magnet battery,etc).  I have what I think 
is an interesting free energy experiment to do which also requires a couple 
of these magnets.  The question again is whether there might be a hope of 
getting these magnets by some easier method than changing the polarization of 
the commonly available toroid/disk magnets?  Any suggestions for sources 
would be appreciated.
                                                                              
       Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 13:50:00 1999
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <Red-Leader@[38.244.146.2]>
From: "Red-Leader" <Red-Leader@dabney.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:49:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Re(2): A Question!
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John wrote:
<snip>
> Obviously this system only works in the Earths magnetic field - I think there is very real consideration of using this system
> for the space station it'll be used to make fine tunings to its orbit (and generate extra electricity at times of greatest
> need) the savings are in the billions of dollars over the stations life compaired to lifting fuel for these obital corrections
> and extra power.

Checked out the websites you mentioned. That's interesting. I just 
remember reading a while back about NASA having problems with 
tethered sattelites because of the electricity generated when they 
used steel cable. I didn't know they were doing anything with that 
discovery. It makes alot of sense though. Thanks for the information.


    =====================
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    =====================
                

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 14:07:48 1999
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does anyone have any interesting links to information on electromedicine?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 14:30:42 1999
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Subject: Re: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
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you should try out the kits from electronics goldmine.  they have an analog
and a digital learning package.  personally i found this a lot more helpful
than the radio shack one i tried, since it used a breadboard instead of a
premade board. a lot of parts cheap too. you can download the catalog in
pdf format off the website:

www.goldmine-elec.com

question for everyone.  elec. goldmine sells a 15Kv negative ion generator
for 12.95. could i use that as a source of HV, for electrogravitics?
Thanks all.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 14:37:10 1999
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: e-mail from another freenrg list member
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At 05:05 PM 8/4/99 -0400, you wrote:
>does anyone have any interesting links to information on electromedicine?


 If you want some good experiments and technology, 
involving free radical control using electricity, try:
  "Inactivation of Herpes Simplex Viruses with Methylene Blue, 
Light and Electricity", Swartz, M.R., L. Schnipper, A. Lewin,  
C. Crumpacker, Proc. of the Society of Experimental Biology 
and Medicine, 161, 204-209, (1979)

   and
US PATENT 4,181,128: Virus Inactivation Appicator and the Like

US PATENT 4,402,318: METHOD OF INACTIVATION OF VIRUSES, BACTERIA,
              ETC. IN VITRO, AND PRODUCTION OF VACCINES

   Mitchell Swartz


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http://www.digibio.com/

>does anyone have any interesting links to information on electromedicine?

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 15:11:47 1999
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>but knuke.... the oscillations are not usable in my opinion... they are just 
>vibration ... now if you could just harness vibration for your clock... just 
>think a passing truck could wind you clock????
>Timothy...

Yeah, you're right.  Thanks

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 17:07:30 1999
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Subject: Bruce Perrault Questions...
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Hi.

OK, lets all put down the flamethrowers and asbestos
underwear, you said you wanted to talk about technology
so this should start happening, yes????

I could start by asking a few questions about that clorine
tube gadget that I ran across a while back on Jerrys site;
but that seems like a bad idea at this point. It's just
too hot here for more flame action...

I seem to remember from your site that you've done some
work with atomic batteries. Care to talk about this?

Now, you seem to be edging towards the superregen type
technology. Interesting stuff, to be sure, how about
some discussion about your demo at Exotic Science...

K.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 18:50:04 1999
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Subject: Re: STILL looking for toroidal magnets - sources???
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Ken -

> There has been a need for toroidal or disk-shaped magnets with the B field
> circular inside the magnet (VACE, magnet battery,etc).  I have what I think
> is an interesting free energy experiment to do which also requires a couple
> of these magnets.  The question again is whether there might be a hope of
> getting these magnets by some easier method than changing the polarization of
> the commonly available toroid/disk magnets?  Any suggestions for sources
> would be appreciated.
>
>        Ken


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an iron ring cut into segments, and
some not-so-strong (incapable of saturating the iron) magnets in the cut
gaps assemble into such a ring?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 18:53:37 1999
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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Ken -

> How long has anyone been able to get a magnet to hoover, as suggested by
> Rick, before it falls down (or up)?  Are we talking fractions of a second,
> seconds, minutes ---- ?
>
>           Ken

With jittery fingers, no more than a second or two, long enough to prove
that it's stable and not just falling up or down. I think that with a finely
adjustable fixture using graphite or something instead of fingers, it's
basically permanent - good until the cat knocks it over.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 22:01:04 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 00:59:43 EDT
Subject: Re: STILL looking for toroidal magnets - sources???
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In a message dated 8/4/99 6:50:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rick@highsurf.com 
writes:

> 
>  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an iron ring cut into segments, and
>  some not-so-strong (incapable of saturating the iron) magnets in the cut
>  gaps assemble into such a ring?
>  
>  - Rick Monteverde
Well, I think it would approximate one, although there would likely be some 
nonsymmetrical field fringing in the air between the N and S poles of the 
magnets, so the field in the toroid wouldn't be completely uniform, but it 
would probably be good enough for what I'm trying to do.        Thanks
                                                                              
    Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug  4 22:12:41 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:11:51 PDT
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just a thought... I see the magnet like a submarine... a sub is only stable 
at the bottom or the top ... all the rest of the time it is either rising or 
descending...  but it is possible to find regions were the sub rests on the 
top of(or under) a thermal boundary layer(also called an inversion layer)...
is it possible that this is the case with the magnet??? dose temp play a 
roll in magnetic levitation??? or at least provide very small 
fluctuations???

Timothy...

>Ken -
>
> > How long has anyone been able to get a magnet to hoover, as suggested by
> > Rick, before it falls down (or up)?  Are we talking fractions of a 
>second,
> > seconds, minutes ---- ?
> >
> >           Ken
>
>With jittery fingers, no more than a second or two, long enough to prove
>that it's stable and not just falling up or down. I think that with a 
>finely
>adjustable fixture using graphite or something instead of fingers, it's
>basically permanent - good until the cat knocks it over.
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 00:23:00 1999
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Subject: Re: STILL looking for toroidal magnets - sources???
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Hi Ken,
At 04:01 PM 8/4/99 EDT, you wrote:
>There has been a need for toroidal or disk-shaped magnets with the B field 
>circular inside the magnet (VACE, magnet battery,etc).  I have what I think 
>is an interesting free energy experiment to do which also requires a couple 
>of these magnets.  The question again is whether there might be a hope of 
>getting these magnets by some easier method than changing the polarization
of 
>the commonly available toroid/disk magnets?  Any suggestions for sources 
>would be appreciated.
>
   
>       Ken
How important is it that there be no leakage flux? If not too critical, you
can still try sets of two "C" shaped magnets, usually Alnico. Can you use
toroid electromagnets with high permeability cores as a proof of concept?
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 01:42:48 1999
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Subject: Re(2): Re(2): A Question!
To: btech@surfsouth.com
Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: J.F.Grant@shu.ac.uk (John F. GRANT)
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btech@surfsouth.com writes:
>Could this effect be amplified to lift a craft off the earth?  What kind of
>design are we talking about?  Could we go beyond the magnetic field of the
>earth and tune into say the magnetic field of the sun and use that for
>thrust?

I don't think tethers could be used as they have to actually cross the magnetic field of the body being used, and although the
gravitational and radiation output of the sun comes out this far I don't think the magnetosphere of the sun dosn't.  In my
opinion if you want to use the sun as a power source for travel around the solar system is to use either a magneto or photon
powered sail which either create a magnetic field from the solar wind (using a small amount of power and fuel - 1.5 kilos of
helium with 3 kW - from a solar cell will give 1 newton of pressure for three months!) or simply use light pressure to push a
craft around, see:

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop08apr99_1.htm
http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Solsail.htm
http://www.astro.keele.ac.uk/~aa/pages/sails.html

Hope you find it interesting, also check out the link from the first site for the "Light Craft" it seems a wild theory as it's
a vehicle powered by a land/space based external laser, but it's a Flying Saucer!! (UFO's explained???).

TTFN,
          John.F.
*************************************************
John F. Grant
Research Associate
Resources Research Unit
Science Park (Unit 12)
Sheffield Hallam University
City campus
Sheffield S1 1 WB

Tel : 0114 225 4034
Fax: 0114 225 4496
e-mail: j.f.grant@shu.ac.uk
*****************************************
"Never be angry when fools act like fools,
It's better when they identify themselves,
It removes so much uncertainty"
                                           Orson Scott Card

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 02:25:04 1999
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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Timothy -

> dose temp play a 
> roll in magnetic levitation??? or at least provide very small
> fluctuations???

No, it's from the diamagnetism in various shielding materials used, like
fingers, or graphite, bismuth, etc.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 04:41:00 1999
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Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:46:51 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> OK, lets all put down the flamethrowers and asbestos
> underwear, you said you wanted to talk about technology
> so this should start happening, yes????


I believe that is why we all joined this list.


> 
> I could start by asking a few questions about that clorine
> tube gadget that I ran across a while back on Jerrys site;
> but that seems like a bad idea at this point. It's just
> too hot here for more flame action...


This is no problem for me. In fact, I want to thank you for
bringing up the file that you have mentioned here. I read over 
the file again last night and realized that Dr. Paul Brown is 
concept for radiant energy cells in his atomic batteries. The
basic chemistry was posted on 12/15/95 in this file. The only
difference is that Dr. Brown is using SiT in his cells. He uses
a fairly complex process to get this material for his cells.
You do not create SiT for the radiant energy cell. There are
more economical ways to achieve the same end result.

Here is the file -> http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/coldfiss.txt
Please realize that progress has been made since this file was
posted. I do not use the same circuitry. Bottled chlorine gas is not
used now because it is too reactive, and is very dangerous. I have
added notes to this text to clarify some of the statements that are
not my own.


> 
> I seem to remember from your site that you've done some
> work with atomic batteries. Care to talk about this?


The above referenced coldfiss.txt contains a patent draft
that outlines the basics of my work with atomic batteries.
As you will see my technology is a married between an
atomic cell and a chemical, primary cell. You can get more
details from reading my online Research Manual.

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/manual.pdf


> 
> Now, you seem to be edging towards the superregen type
> technology. Interesting stuff, to be sure, how about
> some discussion about your demo at Exotic Science...


This seems to opening some Nu doors lately.
However, don't completely rule out the radiant energy
cell yet. Combining this cell with the 500Khz. electrostatic
radio receiver may provide us with phenomenal results. I
have a very good feeling about this.


     -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 07:08:31 1999
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Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:13:53 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> OK, lets all put down the flame throwers and asbestos
> underwear, you said you wanted to talk about technology
> so this should start happening, yes????


I believe that is why we all joined this list.


> 
> I could start by asking a few questions about that chlorine
> tube gadget that I ran across a while back on Jerrys site,
> but that seems like a bad idea at this point. It's just
> too hot here for more flame action...


This is no problem for me. In fact, I want to thank you for
bringing up the file that you have mentioned here. I read over 
the file again last night and realized that Dr. Paul Brown is 
using my concept for radiant energy cells in his atomic batteries. 
The basic chemistry was posted on 12/15/95 in this file. The only
difference is that Dr. Brown is using SiT in his cells. He uses
a fairly complex process to get the active materials that he is
utilizing in his cells. You do not create SiT for the radiant 
energy cell. There are more economical ways to achieve the same 
end result.

Here is the file -> http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/coldfiss.txt
Please realize that progress has been made since this file was first
posted on 12/15/95. I do not use the same circuitry. Bottled chlorine 
gas is not used now because it is too reactive, and is very dangerous. 
I have added notes to this text to clarify some of the statements 
that are not my own.


> 
> I seem to remember from your site that you've done some
> work with atomic batteries. Care to talk about this?


The above referenced coldfiss.txt contains a patent draft that outlines 
the basics of my work with atomic batteries. As you will see my 
technology is a marriage between an atomic cell and a chemical, primary 
cell. You can get more details from reading my online Research Manual.

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/manual.pdf


> 
> Now, you seem to be edging towards the super regenerative type
> technology. Interesting stuff, to be sure, how about some 
> discussion about your demo at Exotic Science...


This seems to opening some Nu doors lately. However, don't 
completely rule out the radiant energy cell yet. Combining this 
cell with the 500Khz. electrostatic radio receiver may provide us 
with phenomenal results. I have a very good feeling about this.


     -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 10:13:35 1999
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From: "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org>
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Subject: Earths Magnetic Field
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:14:40 -0500
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If one assumes a magnetic field configuration (changing) as very well
illustrated at

http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/events/magnetoshpere.shtml

then could one not assume that at a fixed point on earth with a sense coil
and indicator that a VLF signal would be detected as the earth rotates, or
am I missing something here ?

Rex.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 11:10:20 1999
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:09:43 +0200 (MET DST)
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From: Jean-Pierre Lentin <jplentin@club-internet.fr>
Subject: OT - electromedicine
Cc: rymel@mindspring.com
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Hi Rymel, Mitchell, Knuke & all

> does anyone have any interesting links to information on electromedicine?

On my bookmarks list I've got about 200 web pages devoted to
electromedicine, and I'm sure it's about half of them. A few suggestions :

http://www.papimi.gr/
Panos Pappas is a physicist once active in free energy, glow discharge and
plasma. As a post-doc he assisted the Graneaus in their water arc
experiments. At that time Graneau, the father, recovered spectacularly from
severe cancer, an effect Pappas attributed to the electromagnetic ambiance
of the experiments. Now Pappas is back in Athens and full-time in
electromedicine, with is PAP-IMI - Ion magnetic induction, strong magnetic
pulses with bewildering claims. Don't mind the mediterranean bragging, and
be sure to read Pappas' excellent history of early electrotherapy at :
http://www.papimi.gr/early.htm

http://www.explorepub.com/articles/energetics.html
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/Disclaimer.htm
Another physicist very concerned with electromedicine is none other than
Col. Tom Bearden. His rather far-fetched theory states that electrotherapy
devices like Antoine Priore's plasma beam actually time-reverse sick cells
to return them to previous healthy space-time.

http://ns.htc.net/~trumans/
http://www.rt66.com/~rifetech/
http://home.att.net/~ralph.hartwell/index.htm
Rife devices are named about inventor Roy Rife who had allegedly a plasma
ray cure for cancer in the 1930's, and was subsequently driven out of
business by medical authorities. The new Rife devices are being tested right
now by volunteers, enthusiasts, lots of radio hams, a few MDs, even a
scientist or two... Great fun. Above sites are good entries to their webring.

http://www.ece.odu.edu/~emed99/
http://www.radio.fer.hr/cost244/4thebea/index.htm
http://www.medmarket.com/tenants/reiddds/products/chap23-0.html
Two recent congresses, lots of abstracts, and a fat book chapter. The
medical mainstream science approach. With, at long last, some contributions
by Russian scientists, who've been working on it for decades, in complete
seclusion from the West. (Well, the West wasn't interested at all).

http://kftt.karelia.ru:8101/~alexk/new_articles/index.html
Wild wild theoretical musings and maths to explain effects of
electromagnetism by resonance with cells or proteins.And explain anything
else in physics and biology as well. Very highbrow.

Happy summer reading !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Pierre Lentin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 12:22:09 1999
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Message-ID: <19990805192203.17737.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:22:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Wayne Decker <jwdatwork@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More of Jerry's Hatred
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I thought at first to let you have the last word,
despite the numerous errors in your last flamemail,
but telling me to shoo from a public list is more than
I will brook knowing what you have revealed yourself
to be, 

so when your CLAIMS or known LIES are posted to a
public list, which then get posted to my mailbox, you
will be called on it as many times as it takes

OR until you have a CLAIM that WORKS to offset your
prior chicaneries.  

The case of beer bet was lost by your henchman and
'believer' Jones when you failed to show yet another
advertised 'working' device at yet another conference
as predicted by your history. 

He TRUSTED you to produce it and you FAILED again. The
bottomline remains that your only successes you have
to date are in your mind as dribbled onto your site. 

On a positive note, there is a remote possibility you
will somehow manage to 'aquire' someone elses
information or hybridize it sufficiently to achieve
something tangible that WORKS, with available
protocols and instructions sufficient for independent
SUCCESSFUL verification, though I doubt it...

but hope springs eternal that someone, EVEN YOU, will
inevitably release a true, working o/u device. 

Note: if the chlorine, 'nu' claim PRODUCTS or
SUCCESSES work so well, why then do you need to jump
to ever more claims, trying to incorporate other
peoples ideas to promote your 'nu' sales? 

If it really worked, the logical thing to do is focus
on promoting it for PRACTICAL USE.  But since it
obviously doesn't, you must continually seek to find
another CLAIM of success to add to your 'nu' claims
library, ad nauseum.

It would be interesting to hear Paul Brown's reaction
to your using his name as remotely related to your
'successes'.  Nothing like legitimacy by association,
the error being that you would dare to suggest your
unproven claims are related to that of such a
brilliant and talented researcher of his calibre, who
is even now on the verge of an historical application
that, if the DOE and nuclear regulatory agencies
proves it accurate, will forever change our problems
with radioactive waste.

An excerpt from Wired Magazine;

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.02/mustread.html?pg=19

"The US Department of Energy predicts that we'll spend
$150 billion to dispose of radioactive leftovers
generated during four decades of Cold War weapons
production. Paul Brown, a physics PhD from Boise,
Idaho, says he can do it for less than a quarter of
that price - without burying hazardous waste. How?
Give the nukes a taste of their own medicine: Blast
them with radiation.

...Brown's ultimate vision is of nuclear-power
stations that neutralize their waste as soon as it's
created. "I'm not an antinuke activist," he says. "I'm
a realist. Obviously, we need a method to remediate
nuclear waste - and ours really works." 

Nuclear Solutions has a website which I can't access
from here or I would provide the URL.  I don't see
'nu' anything being written up anywhere in the REAL or
alternative media which says much for its nonexistent
impact since it obviously never worked.  Excluding
your lame marketing self-promotion for your own gains.

Your interpretation of my calling you on your bogus
claims is as usual inaccurate, it is not, it has not
and it never will be hatred, its simply disgust that
you presented yourself initially as honest, open and
trustworthy, then knowingly bilked so many including
ITS and continue with an unending stream of other
claims of success that also are untrue.

If you had acknowledged the error and ceased the bogus
claims of success, all would be well since integrity
is restored as with the case of Lee Trippett and his
TOD circuit.  

Lee did have an anomalous circuit that indicated
overunity, posted the file and his results for all to
see and experiment with and others got similar
readings.  But it wasn't overunity because it would
not even light an LED or neon tube.  Lee recognized
this as a problem and brought this to everyones
attention, yet the readings INDICATED overunity.

Walter Rosenthal, using his power measuring equipment
found the circuit to produce a rapid series of high
intensity spikes which produced nothing approaching
unity, but when using a digital or analog meter, the
averaging circuit made it APPEAR to be overunity.

Lee promptly reported this discovery, apologized for
his error, and recommended that people not waste time
or money on the circuit since it was an error.

That was a wonderful thing to do and Lee earned the
respect and admiration of many including me who
appreciated his honesty and candor.

A similar thing has been happening with the Marks
toroidal device which, I am told, is apparently using
a specially designed battery driven inverter to drive
only an incandescent load, never an inductive load.

Though no one has duplicated even this suspected
technique, everything points to a scam for money since
Marks won't let anyone test it, won't let anyone
independently duplicate or verify it, has intimated it
uses a battery, won't let it be applied to any
inductive load, overheats rapidly, loses power when
turned upside down (mercury switch probably to disable
power) which he says could be resolved with another
million, and everytime an investor demands a test by
outside parties, Marks makes up another excuse or
feigns illness.  Sound 'nu'ly familiar????

Where Lee COULD have ramped up and propagandized his
circuit to scam 'investors' like Marks is doing, the
thought would never cross such a man's mind, to
intentionally rip off anyone...instead, he spent his
own time and money to have it checked out to find the
error, then reported it openly so that all would know.

This is the kind of people who deserve respect and
trust and yes, even support because they are allowing
anyone to verify their CLAIM by duplicating a working
device.

In your case, you refuse to face reality, choosing to
spin and weave fantasy claims of success for your own
personal income where you get away with conning people
simple enough to TRUST in and BELIEVE YOUR CLAIMS
without requiring any proof beyond YOUR faulty
assessment and 'anonymous verifications'.

No protocols, no details, no definitive independent
replications, that's not reality.  Even trying to use
the shareware document format in an attempt to further
your goal for sales...not a clue, none, zilch.

But it seems to serve you well enough to garner you
sufficient income so you don't have to work a real
job, which, by the way, you never addressed because
you KNOW you can't make it in the real world, so why
even try?, preferring to scam trusting people as your
sole source of income.  I suspect people are
embarrassed by being taken in by such claims and
either never try to verify it or decide to let you
win.  

One day, it will catch up legally as fraud and you can
share a cell with Dennis Lee or perhaps Marks.

So, if one of your junkmail posts is in my mailbox,
whether from a list or direct, advertising yourself,
your site or more of your BS claims of success or
flames, expect a retort or more. 

Finally, you opened up yet another flame thread so in
order to kill this particular run, I suggest you take
your own pathetic advice;

>  Go away! Shoo! Don't waste anymore of our time... 
>  you are nothing more than a distractor... go back 
>  into your hole!



===


=================================
Please respond to jdecker@keelynet.com
as I am writing from my work email of
jwdatwork@yahoo.com.........thanks!
=================================
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 13:49:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:52:29 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Jerry Wayne Decker wrote:
> 
<<deleted dribble>>
>
> The case of beer bet was lost by your henchman and
> 'believer' Jones when you failed to show yet another
> advertised 'working' device at yet another conference
> as predicted by your history.
> 
> He TRUSTED you to produce it and you FAILED again. The
> bottomline remains that your only successes you have
> to date are in your mind as dribbled onto your site.


Wrong... I brought a demonstration to the April Tesla
conference! This was in spite of passinmg kidney stones!
I checked myself out of the hospitol the night before
just to make it to that conference. Oh yeh, speaking of
conferences, watch what you say to Steve... you are libel
to get yourself sued for slaunder.

<<deleted dribble>>


> 
> Note: if the chlorine, 'nu' claim PRODUCTS or
> SUCCESSES work so well, why then do you need to jump
> to ever more claims, trying to incorporate other
> peoples ideas to promote your 'nu' sales?



I guess you can not read either! Dr. Paul Brown is successful
using basically the same formula in his "betavoltaic cells."
I don't know if he is using oxygen in his cells but if he is
not then it will increase the power many factors.

"Other People's ideas?" You got that reversed.


> 
> If it really worked, the logical thing to do is focus
> on promoting it for PRACTICAL USE. But since it
> obviously doesn't, you must continually seek to find
> another CLAIM of success to add to your 'nu' claims
> library, ad nauseum.


Nu spin-offs are icing on the cake. We will see who gets 
the last laugh. When my products hit the market place I
don't want your support. Do me a favor and just forget
we ever met. It is people like you that are the cause of
suppression.


> 
> It would be interesting to hear Paul Brown's reaction
> to your using his name as remotely related to your
> 'successes'.  Nothing like legitimacy by association,
> the error being that you would dare to suggest your
> unproven claims are related to that of such a
> brilliant and talented researcher of his calibre, who
> is even now on the verge of an historical application
> that, if the DOE and nuclear regulatory agencies
> proves it accurate, will forever change our problems
> with radioactive waste.


Dr. Paul Brown has his way of doing things, and I have
mine. Brown's betavoltaic cells validates what I publicly
released in your coldfiss.txt back in 1995. Nothing was
said to degrade Dr. Brown. I merely pointed out that my
way is more economical. I also feel that my alpha fusion
producing secondary fission reactions are also a better
way to go for nuclear remediation. I also would like to
point out that there is a respect between Paul and I.
Sometime in the future I'm sure that Paul company and
mine will be doing business together, irrelevant to as
who's process is the better of the two. The important
thing is that these technolgies get out to the everyday
man and woman. 


<<article deleted to save space, good write-up."


> 
> If you had acknowledged the error and ceased the bogus
> claims of success, all would be well since integrity
> is restored as with the case of Lee Trippett and his
> TOD circuit.


What error!!!


<<more dribble deleted implyng that I am a scam>>


> 
> No protocols, no details, no definitive independent
> replications, that's not reality. Even trying to use
> the shareware document format in an attempt to further
> your goal for sales...not a clue, none, zilch.


I have given out more than enough details for replication.
In fact, if you had attended last weeks Exotic Research
Conference you would have seen this first hand. I pointed
out the falacy behind what is being called "cold fusion."
Something that you are standing behind Jerry! Don't say
that you are not because a letter to the magazine was
published. I went on to point out an Ultra Chemistry that
revealed the lies about "nuclear chemistry" that have been
forced feed to us. Yes Jerry, I also gave repeatable data
that can be reproduced and verified!!!


> 
> But it seems to serve you well enough to garner you
> sufficient income so you don't have to work a real
> job, which, by the way, you never addressed because
> you KNOW you can't make it in the real world, so why
> even try?, preferring to scam trusting people as your
> sole source of income. I suspect people are
> embarrassed by being taken in by such claims and
> either never try to verify it or decide to let you
> win.


Your right Jerry, the real world is full of sick people
like you. I do try to avoid you kind. However, you are
wrong about having a sufficient income. We have to struggle
just like the next guy. If I end up making good money from
products then it will be well earned.


<<more dribble deleted>>


      -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 14:29:59 1999
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All,
Going on holiday to see the eclipse in Cornwall. Back
following Friday or Saturday. Will unsubscribe. Will 
bring back pictures.
Remi.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 17:25:35 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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What did I present at the Conference?

1. Possible extraction of Storm Frequency energy via earth ground
using unique radio frequency electrostatic receiver. A Solid-state
device was demonstrated. Everything was in full view, nothing hidden.

2. Super-unity 1920's Speaker. The back cover was removed for all to
inspect. The coil resistance was tested on a digital volt meter and
static could be heard. This speaker proved that a higher efficency
standard could be achieved. A motor built on its principle could display
super-unity results. I say super-unity, not "over-unity" because it is
not producing more out than in, it is super-unity besides a already 
percieved device that is apparently operating at near to 100% However,
what happens when something comes along and exceeds the 100% threshold?
Super-unity! That is, until it becomes the new standard and what came
before it is then below par excellence.

3. The star chamber was demonstrated using specially coated electrodes.
"Star-mode" was demonstated in ordinary air. It was pointed out how
DaimlerChrysler has stolen this concept and has validated that our
star-mode can generate neutrons with the flip of a switch in a deuterium
atmosphere. 

4. A NASA video was shown that depicts that the Moon does in fact
contain
a vast supply of Helium-3. This fuel could be burned in our star-chamber
with little radiation, about a million times less than a nuclear
reactor.

5. Alpha-fusion that results in secondary fission reactions was
discussed.
Text book equations were used to point out that we have been lied to by
bomb era scientists. 

6. An experimental setup was explained to reproduce "cold fusion"
results.
The experiments proves that the "excess heat" is due to catalytic
chemical
reactions. The first reaction of this nature was first reported in a
1925
issue of "The Electrical Experimenter."

7. Many transparancies were used to enhance the lectures.

8. Booklets, cd-roms, a Hubbard type spark-plug, 70's Drinking Bird,
and fuel Atomizer 2000 was Raffled off for FREE...

9. The operation of the Radiant Energy Device was taken out of the
Fringe closet of Science and brought out into the light of Standard
Science. No land of OZ, just real science.

10. This was this best conference that I have ever attended!
Many more aspects were presente... these are what I can remember
right off the top of my head.


       Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 18:08:17 1999
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11. I showed a home video from the mine where I obtain my
radioactive ores. I then showed step by step how anyone
can extract radioactive powder from these ores using everyday
items.

        Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug  5 19:24:00 1999
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remove me from the list

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug  6 03:59:09 1999
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 12:59:04 +0200
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Subject: More News about the Methernitha Testatika visit !
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> Hi Stefan,
>
> That is a Big update!  Any idea how Methernitha came to give such a
> demonstration ?  ie How could one get into such a group of engineers
> to get a closer look ?  How come you weren't there !?
>
> As you may know, I visited Methernitha, but they weren't showing
> anything, or even allowing the technical guys to be talked to.  It
> seemed to me that they wanted to destroy the technology to prevent
> it falling into the wrong hands by being stolen.  Mr Bosshart was
> happy to answer any questions I could think of asking, but
> unfortunately he is not very technical at all.  Do you think that
> this event marks somewhat of an end to their efforts to suppress it?

Hans Holzherr, who was there, replied:

I had no part in the organization of this event, but I can relate what I
was told. All the
visitors were members of a fraternity called 'Berna', of former students
of the Burgdorf
Institute of Technology. (Burgdorf is a small town NE of Bern,
Switzerland). As mentioned,
most of them are retired by now. Each year they have a gathering that
involves some outdoor
activity and sightseeing. The fraternity president had known about the
Testatika for years and
had had the idea of a visit with the Methernitha community which would
be a surprise to most
fraternity members. I have read he was turned down several years, but
this year, following a
very enduring 'diplomatic' effort, finally succeeded. Unlike other
fraternities, the members
of Berna don't drink alcohol during their social gatherings. That fact
certainly didn't fail
to impress Methernitha's decision makers. But even so, the fraternity's
president had to
submit a visitors' name list complete with occupations etc. Adolf
Schneider of Transaltec, a
friend of the president, would have been among the guests, along with a
Russian professor of
theoretical physics and an associate as interpreter. The president told
Schneider to forget
about the Russian right away because he would not be admitted. It turned
out that not even
Schneider was admitted because for some reason he is an unwanted person
with Methernitha. At
that point Schneider called me and offered me to visit the community in
his place. I was very
happy to take the offer, and the rest is history...

>
> Stephan,
>
> Could you ask the man who saw the Testatika machine, if there was ever a
> load placed on it for more than just a few seconds.
>
> One of the people who claims that the Testatika is a radium powered
> battery, told me they never connect a load for more tha a few seconds to
> the Testatika because it has to recharge for short high powered output.
>
> Tim


The 1000 Watt lamp was on the longest, about 10 seconds. What I've heard
is that the machine
is designed to deliver continuously, and does live up to that. At least,
we were told on our
visit that the machine is used to produce electricity in certain
buildings and to heat them.
According to Bernhard XXX, the machine is primarily used during power
blackouts.


> Hi Stefan,
>           I was wondering what the Methernitha people say is the point
> of these
> demonstrations. Since they refuse to tell the world how it works, why
> allow a
> bunch of engineers to look at it?
> Did they invite the engineers? And if so, why?
>
> Personally, it would kind of tick me off to be invited to a kind of
> 'teaser'
> event like this...
> Regards,
>         Tony

It wasn't the Methernitha's idea to invite these people (see question
1). I can't imagine
anybody not taking the chance to see the Testatika.

Gruss,
Hans

==================

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug  6 08:49:44 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:48:31 EDT
Subject: Re: STILL looking for toroidal magnets - sources???
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In a message dated 8/5/99 12:22:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
ddameron@earthlink.net writes:

> How important is it that there be no leakage flux? If not too critical, you
>  can still try sets of two "C" shaped magnets, usually Alnico. Can you use
>  toroid electromagnets with high permeability cores as a proof of concept?
>  -Dave
Some leakage flux is probably OK, but there is some chance it might matter 
whether the whole "toroid" is a magnet or if it is a magnet/high mu material 
series combinations.  Unfortunately, I can't use electromagnets, because this 
little experiment involves virtual/amperian currents and I have to have the 
surface of the material available.
                                                           Thanks          Ken

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JOE MAY IS IN THE HOSPITAL UNTILL NEXT THURSDAY THANK-YOU
    -----Original Message-----
    From: alik <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
    To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
    Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:14 PM
    Subject: Re: Learning Basic to intermediate levels electronics
   =20
   =20
     =20
    Zac Miller wrote:=20

                Hi,=20
        I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find the =
discussions=20
        interesting and am interested in Tesla.  I was wondering if =
anyone could=20
        recommend a book/kit that teaches the how/why/what of =
electronics in a=20
        hands on way.=20
        =20
    Three books (actually 5) that anyone thinking about experimenting =
with exotic gadgets/ 'weird energies' should have:=20
    Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill=20
    Building Scientific Apparatus (a little bit about everything: =
optics, vacuum, glass-work etc)=20
    R.Feyman's 3volume Lectures on Physics.=20

    Another really good source of experimental gizmo information is =
Review of Scientific Istruments. It is kind of expensive but most =
university libraries have it.=20

    Good luck.=20

    Alik S.=20


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>JOE MAY IS IN THE =
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NEXT THURSDAY THANK-YOU</FONT></DIV>
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    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
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    =
href=3D"mailto:alik@intergate.bc.ca">alik@intergate.bc.ca</A>&gt;<BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A href=3D"mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A> =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>D=
ate:=20
    </B>Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:14 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Learning =
Basic=20
    to intermediate levels electronics<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>&nbsp;=20
    <P>Zac Miller wrote:=20
    <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Hi,=20
        <BR>I've been subscribed to this list for a long time, I find =
the=20
        discussions <BR>interesting and am interested in Tesla.&nbsp; I =
was=20
        wondering if anyone could <BR>recommend a book/kit that teaches =
the=20
        how/why/what of electronics in a <BR>hands on way. <BR><A=20
        href=3D"http://www.asi.org"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>Three books =
(actually 5)=20
    that anyone thinking about experimenting with exotic gadgets/ 'weird =

    energies' should have:=20
    <P>Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill <BR>Building Scientific =
Apparatus=20
    (a little bit about everything: optics, vacuum, glass-work etc)=20
    <BR>R.Feyman's 3volume Lectures on Physics.=20
    <P>Another really good source of experimental gizmo information is =
Review of=20
    Scientific Istruments. It is kind of expensive but most university =
libraries=20
    have it.=20
    <P>Good luck.=20
    <P>Alik S. </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug  6 10:46:59 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <d0ef2d45.24dc7956@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:45:58 EDT
Subject: May be a free energy secret?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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<< I was searching for some pass words this morning, and I came a cross to 
this statement, that was stored at pass words folder so I thought to share 
with you guys, you just never know ... It may help someone to find a secret 
formula of free energy.
MKSB.>>



Anything will give up
 its secrets if you love it enough. 

- George Washington Carver 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug  6 14:39:49 1999
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:05:47 -0400
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Bill,

I doubt it if I will ever get to sell anything that has radioactive
material in it, no matter how little the amount. This is why the 
"Nu" promise of a 500Khz. electrostatic radio receiver to obtain
electrical power has gotten me so excited. I am not saying that it 
is the answer at this point. I am merely saying that its promise 
looks good. It deserves a real close look. 

Yes, the public is certainly parnoid about anything that is connected 
to radioactive materials. This has been the wall that I have been 
facing as far as products are concerned.


      -Bruce A. Perreault


Bill Wallace` wrote:
> 
> Will you ever be able to sell these devices?  Doesn't the NRC place heavy
> restrictions on selling nuclear fuel?  Until this can happen there will be
> no mass consumer market for your technology.  The public is so biased
> against anything with nuclear or radioactive in the title.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
> To: <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 9:11 PM
> Subject: Last Weeks Exotic Research Conference #11
> 
> > 11. I showed a home video from the mine where I obtain my
> > radioactive ores. I then showed step by step how anyone
> > can extract radioactive powder from these ores using everyday
> > items.
> >
> >         Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault
> >
> >

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 07:14:59 1999
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From: "Felis Catus" <felis@frontiernet.net>
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Subject: Re: OT - electromedicine
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Monsier Lentin:
                     The August 22,1992 New York Times on page 34a had an
article "Electric Current Disinfiects Blood"..
"...Dr Stephen Kali, a gynecologist at Einstein College Of Medicine in the
Bronx, has patented what he believes is a way to kill viral infections by
exposing blood to weak electric currents. The basic principle is simple:
electric current as strong as that used by a cardiac pacemaker will
immobilize a virus but appears weak enough to leave the much larger blood
cells unharmed. Thus far, the hospital has conducted laboratory tests in
conjunction with Baxter International, Inc. on blood infected with the AIDS
virus. The blood was pumped to a location between two platinum electrodes,
and Dr. Kali said that about 95 percent of the viruses had lost their
infectious ability after a six minute exposure to a current of about one
hundred millionths of an amp.  The chief advantage, he said is that the
treatment does not appear to harm the blood itself, or have other toxic
effects. Dr. Kali said that the treatment could be incorporated into
something like a kidney dialysis machine, which removes a patients blood ,
filters out accumulated poisons, and returns it to the body. Dr. Kali and
Peter M. Schwolsky, a lawyer, recieved patent 5,139,684"
This is a direct transcription of the NY Times article, there is no Internet
website information I know of on this. Having seen the patent, I would say
the device would be simplicity itself to build.  It is claimed to work with
a host of other diseases.  Even though it might work, would suspect that it
will never see widespread use because it threatens vested interests in the
pharmaceutical industry.

felis catus  felis@frontiernet.net. 8/07/99
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Pierre Lentin <jplentin@club-internet.fr>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: rymel@mindspring.com <rymel@mindspring.com>
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 2:10 PM
Subject: OT - electromedicine


>Hi Rymel, Mitchell, Knuke & all
>
>> does anyone have any interesting links to information on electromedicine?
>
>On my bookmarks list I've got about 200 web pages devoted to
>electromedicine, and I'm sure it's about half of them. A few suggestions :
>
>http://www.papimi.gr/
>Panos Pappas is a physicist once active in free energy, glow discharge and
>plasma. As a post-doc he assisted the Graneaus in their water arc
>experiments. At that time Graneau, the father, recovered spectacularly from
>severe cancer, an effect Pappas attributed to the electromagnetic ambiance
>of the experiments. Now Pappas is back in Athens and full-time in
>electromedicine, with is PAP-IMI - Ion magnetic induction, strong magnetic
>pulses with bewildering claims. Don't mind the mediterranean bragging, and
>be sure to read Pappas' excellent history of early electrotherapy at :
>http://www.papimi.gr/early.htm
>
>http://www.explorepub.com/articles/energetics.html
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/Disclaimer.htm
>Another physicist very concerned with electromedicine is none other than
>Col. Tom Bearden. His rather far-fetched theory states that electrotherapy
>devices like Antoine Priore's plasma beam actually time-reverse sick cells
>to return them to previous healthy space-time.
>
>http://ns.htc.net/~trumans/
>http://www.rt66.com/~rifetech/
>http://home.att.net/~ralph.hartwell/index.htm
>Rife devices are named about inventor Roy Rife who had allegedly a plasma
>ray cure for cancer in the 1930's, and was subsequently driven out of
>business by medical authorities. The new Rife devices are being tested
right
>now by volunteers, enthusiasts, lots of radio hams, a few MDs, even a
>scientist or two... Great fun. Above sites are good entries to their
webring.
>
>http://www.ece.odu.edu/~emed99/
>http://www.radio.fer.hr/cost244/4thebea/index.htm
>http://www.medmarket.com/tenants/reiddds/products/chap23-0.html
>Two recent congresses, lots of abstracts, and a fat book chapter. The
>medical mainstream science approach. With, at long last, some contributions
>by Russian scientists, who've been working on it for decades, in complete
>seclusion from the West. (Well, the West wasn't interested at all).
>
>http://kftt.karelia.ru:8101/~alexk/new_articles/index.html
>Wild wild theoretical musings and maths to explain effects of
>electromagnetism by resonance with cells or proteins.And explain anything
>else in physics and biology as well. Very highbrow.
>
>Happy summer reading !
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jean-Pierre Lentin
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 12:29:31 1999
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From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Hi Folks!

There is one socially irresponsible contingent in the alternative
science arena who are of the opinion that free energy can only come from
use of radioactive elements.

Radioactive materials are restricted for good reason and government
regulations against their uncontrolled, UNTRAINED use by the public is
quite rational.

The health risks of handling concentrated radioactive elements even in a
quest for 'free energy' are simply too great, not only for the person
handling them but anyone else living anywhere near them and can
eventually contaminate the local environment.  Can you say Love Canal or
Chernobyl?

Would you be willing to blight your neighborhood or community, by taking
such a risk by blindly following the deranged instructions or promotions
of a sociopath?  

People would not even be aware of exposure to toxic radiation levels
until they began experiencing health symptoms that could lead to serious
or terminal illness.  

Promotion or experimentation with radioactive elements in uncontrolled
research envirnoments is unconscionable and it is a GOOD thing that the
government clamps down on possession and abuse of concentrated
radioactive materials because there are crazies out there who don't care
about themselves or anyone else, just as long as they can extract money
from it.

Why care if some stranger kills themselves or their family simply by
trying to achieve a working free energy machine while playing with
radioactive elements?

That is precisely why KeelyNet has never posted specific details or
information about weapons or technology that terrorists or sociopaths
could directly use to attack others or society.  Well of course,
anything can be adopted to carry out destruction but that doesn't mean
anyone should provide plans and construction details to make it easier.

Fortunately, to date, the construction details for radioactive based
free energy devices have been sufficiently flawed, laughable and
fraudulent as to not succeed on a public scale, however the
recommendation for collection and concentration of radioactive material
is still a danger that people must be made aware of.

Don't buy any plans that remotely suggest using radioactive materials
unless you are willing to take the legal and moral consequences should
you act on them.  In time, the diseased fruit of plans that promote
radioactivity will wither on the vine and fade away to halt the
sociopathic experimentation that risks so many innocents.

For instance, as a matter of social responsibility, there have been
numerous emails over the years comlaining why KeelyNet doesn't post
cloudbuster construction details (among others) which are of course now
freely available on the net.  

What if people all over the country built one of these and were
attempting to either create rain or dissipate storms simply for their
own or their communities personal or commercial gain?  

What you do affects your neighbors and beyond so it would be irrational
and socially irresponsible to promote the use of such technology no
matter the temptations and even more disgusting if selling the plans are
involved.  Why not just sell guns to teens if you are that devolved?

Eventually weather control will be coordinated efforts on the part of
many groups or even governments, rather than by isolated experimenters
jerking the weather to bend to their will or particular pleasure of the
day.

Refer to the concerns of Joel Carlinksy as posted at;

http://www.keelynet.com/ecology/cloudbst.htm

The same philosophy and mode of socially conscious action applies to
other technologies which produce more negatives than positives.

Some might argue that the free release of working free energy plans or
gravity control plans (that WORK WHEN BUILT) as a simple proof of
principle, desktop version, will cause much havoc.  That is probable,
but society and the world will recover in short order without damage to
health and life based on the CLAIMS I have seen (Moray, Hendershot,
Coler, Keely, Hyde, Testatika, Hamel/Searl, Lambertsens WIN cells, etc.)

The oil and power generation industries will be the first affected and
the permutations to societies and governments will be enormous.  

However, I am of the opinion such technologies will not take over in one
night or even one year.  They will necessarily be phased in because
someone, MANY SOMEONES will be building larger prototypes, testing and
marketing them.  

It is up to not only each and every one of us but also the power and oil
producers to get in on the ground floor for constructing, marketing and
selling these units and maintaining/repairing them, but first we have to
DISCOVER what WORKS and quit bragging or making claims without PROOF.  
The discoveries will then seep into all areas of society worldwide at
various rates.

There will no doubt be many new regulations dealing with safety concerns
and UL type rating/certification of such free energy systems, flight
controls for increased aerial and space craft traffic and the general
overseeing of the quality, sales and practical use of such technologies.

Now with this erroneous and irreponsible idea that ONLY radioactive
elements will be the answer to true 'free energy', are the health risks
worth EVEN THAT DISCOVERY?  

Does it make sense to ignore the Casimir/ZPE force, ignore the forces
which make the planets and electrons orbit, ignore tapping into earth or
atmospheric currents, ignore natural temperature or electric differtials
in favor of radioactivity?  They are certainly 'free' and certainly
aren't sourced by radioactivity, so why take the chance?

There are of course lots of radioactive elements but here I am concerned
with the general health risks involved as well as the promotion of the
use of any radioactive elements for free energy.  I maintain that such
blatant promotion is irresponsible and without regard for anyone's
health or safety and is sociopathic behavior solely for the acquisition
of money.

For instance, as a matter of noting health concerns with radioactive
materials, in doomed attempts for 'free energy' or otherwise, the use of
even depleted uranium (non-fissionable but still radioactive) in weapons
still poses serious health hazards to the military personnel handling
them as posted at;

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/8777/health.html

'Depleted UF6 (DU) is a health risk because the uranium is radioactive
and can cause cancer. It is also a heavy metal that has toxic effects,
mostly on the kidneys, if it enters through the bloodstream by means of
ingestion or inhalation.  The UF6 can react with moisture in the air
producing HF, that damages the lungs if inhaled.

The health affects of the DU use are staggering. They are sufficiently
soluble to contaminate soil, groundwater and surface water. These
microscopic, radioactive heavy metal particles (DU and daughter cells
like beryllium) can enter the body through ingestion and inhalation. The
ingestion of the DU accumulates in the bones and kidneys, similarly to
lead, the DU is permanently deposited. 

The damages caused to the kidneys and tumor growths are irreversible. In
pregnancy, DU crosses the placenta creating a higher risk for birth
malformations because the cells are dividing so rapidly as the fetuses
are developing. 

The DU weapons have been traced to a increase in children diagnosed with
cancer around the contaminated areas. 'When inhaled the radiation from
the uranium continues to assault the bodies cells and their nuclei.' 
-------------------
The efforts of Dr. Paul Brown as noted earlier and others like Dr.
Roberto Monti are more representative of radioactive materials research
which would BENEFIT rather than damage society because it is useful work
being carried out by professionally trained and certified researchers
who know full well the DANGERS of working with radioactive elements.  

Here is a scary URL about the 2000 tons per year of waste from nuclear
power plants;

http://www.sightings.com/health/radioactive.htm

'Every day, more than six tons of dangerous nuclear waste pile up at
power plants around the country" more than 2,000 tons a year. The spent
reactor fuel, highly radioactive for the next 10,000 years, has long
been the nuclear industry's most vexing problem.' 
-----------------
This URL shows leukemia and malignant tumors as radiation induced;

http://japan.park.org/Japan/Public/Hiroshima/htmleng/egenbak8.htm
-----------------
This is a problem which Dr. Browns research efforts could assist in
resolving.  Note; Dr. Brown does not sell 'plans', Dr. Brown does not
encourage anyone to remotely experiment with radioactive elements and in
fact is vocal about the dangers.  Dr. Brown does not sell plans or
recommendations instructing people how to process their own radioactive
source materials from pitchblende or other materials.  Dr. Brown
develops, tests, PROVES and patents his work.
-----------------------
On the typical Internet bizarre level, I have seen arguments that the
health concerns for radioactive materials exposures are completely
inflated because the government does not want anyone to realize how easy
it is to build their own atomic bomb so anytime they find a case of
promiscuous abuse of concentracted radioactive materials, they make a
big production out of it to further scare and escalate public concerns
about the 'dangers' of radioacitivity.

One fellow (Galen Windsor?) used to publicly rail against this years ago
and even videotaped himself drinking a glass of radioactive material
without apparent harm to him.  I met him and his wife at a conference a
few years ago and he didn't look too healthy to me but I did not ask
about cancer or anything because that is personal information.

Is it worth the risk of damaging your health, your friends or family or
contaminating your local environment, whatever the reason for taking
such a risk?   For free energy, its not worth it since there are better
sources that will do more good than harm.

Walter Russell wrote the wonderful book 'Atomic Suicide' warning against
the health dangers from long lived radioactive elements and there does
seem to be tons of information where exposure to radioactive elements
produces cancer, mutation and organ death.

Again, is 'free energy' worth compromising your health or life as well
as risking damage to your friends, family or local envirnonment?  As the
McLaughlin panel says, the answer is NO, not remotely.

The formula is quite simple 

=> NEVER < 

help but do not hinder. (Equal to or greater than but NEVER less than)
-------------------
A radiation article in Readers Digest a few months ago, entitled, "The
Atomic Boyscout" told about how a boyscout studying atomic theory was
able to acquire radium paint from old clocks.  (hmm, where have I heard
this story before, but with radium coated watches???)

He got a few hundred smoke detectors and was able to contaminate the
workshed in back of his house. The government had to send in a radiation
cleanup crew in full isolation suits to clean up and haul it all away. 

Now this boy, who was apparently very bright and simply wanting to learn
has joined the Navy and is working in their atomic division doing real
work of value. 
----------------
So I suggest any of you boyscouts out there promoting radioactive
material as your answer to free energy, grow up and try to be a
responsible man of integrity, take a good hard look at yourselves and
your TRUE motives (trying to get suckers money) when you are
recommending to anyone that they try to collect or otherwise experiment
with radioactive materials.  

Fine, hurt yourself if you so choose, but no one has the right to
endanger others as a consequence of their uncaring activities or to
promote or encourage others who might dimly think they will get 'free
energy secrets' that REALLY work for a few bucks.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 15:08:36 1999
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beautiful!

MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:

> << I was searching for some pass words this morning, and I came a cross to
> this statement, that was stored at pass words folder so I thought to share
> with you guys, you just never know ... It may help someone to find a secret
> formula of free energy.
> MKSB.>>
>
> Anything will give up
>  its secrets if you love it enough.
>
> - George Washington Carver



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 15:20:21 1999
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Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 17:46:21 -0400
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Dear list members,

This is another attempt to discredit my work. I will address 
the misconceptions that are outlined in this post. However, 
this post is littered with indirect "flames" against me.

I this point I respectfully request that Bill Beaty please
remove Jerry Decker from this list. Jerry Decker and myself
have been warned about this type of behavior. I have no desire
to having to defend myself against these types of public attacks.
It is a waste of everyone time. Jerry Decker is refusing to
stop his games and should be expelled from the list.


Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> There is one socially irresponsible contingent in the alternative
> science arena who are of the opinion that free energy can only come from
> use of radioactive elements.


This is not true.


> 
> Radioactive materials are restricted for good reason and government
> regulations against their uncontrolled, UNTRAINED use by the public is
> quite rational.


Yes, for the good of the government, to keep control over the people.
Free Energy to the people means that the government loses its grip.


> 
> The health risks of handling concentrated radioactive elements even in a
> quest for 'free energy' are simply too great, not only for the person
> handling them but anyone else living anywhere near them and can
> eventually contaminate the local environment.  Can you say Love Canal or
> Chernobyl?


Wasn't "Love Canal" chemical contamination?
I agree that conventional nuclear power plants are deadly.
The fact is that they are even more deadly than you would
care to know. The only reason that they are in place is
because our military uses them to produce weapons-grade
nuclear materials. They are weapon factories!


> 
> Would you be willing to blight your neighborhood or community, by taking
> such a risk by blindly following the deranged instructions or promotions
> of a sociopath?


Bill, this is clearly a "flame!" 


> 
> People would not even be aware of exposure to toxic radiation levels
> until they began experiencing health symptoms that could lead to serious
> or terminal illness.


Oh, you have met someone who has been over exposed?


> 
> Promotion or experimentation with radioactive elements in uncontrolled
> research envirnoments is unconscionable and it is a GOOD thing that the
> government clamps down on possession and abuse of concentrated
> radioactive materials because there are crazies out there who don't care
> about themselves or anyone else, just as long as they can extract money
> from it.


Another "flame" against my motives. So, I guess we should all go on
"blindly" trusting the people who control the inventories? By the way,
how much money do you think these people are bringing home each week?
All at tax payers expense! How much are we all paying each month on
our electric bills each month to have these people who we trust only 
to be producing DEADLY substances that kill? 


> 
> Why care if some stranger kills themselves or their family simply by
> trying to achieve a working free energy machine while playing with
> radioactive elements?


Let me make a point here that I often have to make. Marie Curie exposed
herself to such levels of radon gas, from her radium solutions, that
would
even make me Kringe. However, even this level did not put her under life
threatening danger. Pierre Curie was ran over a horse drawn buggy and
was
killed, not by radiation! Marie being very depressed over losing her
husband
withdrew deeply into her work. She did not take care of herself... got
little
sleep, did not eat well, and finnally died from exhaustion! If anyone
want
to hear the truth story then a good book to read is "Madame Curie A
Biography
by Eve Curie." Translated by Vincent Sheen 1938. Marie Curie's daughter
wrote
this book and I believe she is still alive today.

The radiation scare was perpentrated by atomic bomb era scientists to
hide
the truths from the world. This was done under the guise of "National
Security."
I pointed out a few atomic reactions that these scientists were not able
to
delete from the text books. Scientists today are contining this hoax at
the
expense of everyone man, woman, and child on the face of the earth. We
could
indeed reach for the stars if only we would stand up to these people. It
all
boils down to control. If we took back our lives then these,
^%$#%^*)%$@##
would no longer be living off the labor of WE THE PEOPLE.


> 
> That is precisely why KeelyNet has never posted specific details or
> information about weapons or technology that terrorists or sociopaths
> could directly use to attack others or society.  Well of course,
> anything can be adopted to carry out destruction but that doesn't mean
> anyone should provide plans and construction details to make it easier.


More flames! You can get weapons-grade material from a conventional
nuclear reactor! Who has the resources to build a nuclear reactor?
Even if you did build a small reactor you would need U-235 to fuel it.
It would take millions of dollars of equipment to separate this
materials
from hundreds of tons of uranium ore. This is the second accuse to stop 
people from getting to close to the truth.


> 
> Fortunately, to date, the construction details for radioactive based
> free energy devices have been sufficiently flawed, laughable and
> fraudulent as to not succeed on a public scale, however the
> recommendation for collection and concentration of radioactive material
> is still a danger that people must be made aware of.


You just answered why a radioactive free energy device can not
succeed on a public scale. Thank you! This does not mean that
I will lay down and give up the fight.


> 
> Don't buy any plans that remotely suggest using radioactive materials
> unless you are willing to take the legal and moral consequences should
> you act on them.  In time, the diseased fruit of plans that promote
> radioactivity will wither on the vine and fade away to halt the
> sociopathic experimentation that risks so many innocents.


Another flame... by the way, I do not sell plans, I give them away
for FREE through my website! The cd-roms are of a great service.
They are reasonably priced. As far as the legal end of it, you can
still go out and find your own radioactive rocks, and then even
process them on your own property. What you can not do is to transport
the material to another location. This is why I have not been able
to do public demonstrations with the radiant energy cells. However,
I can still show videos. :)


> 
> For instance, as a matter of social responsibility, there have been
> numerous emails over the years comlaining why KeelyNet doesn't post
> cloudbuster construction details (among others) which are of course now
> freely available on the net.


Yup, cloudbusters were powered by "orgone crystals." This material
came straight out of New Hampshire... yup, its radioactive. :)


> 
> What if people all over the country built one of these and were
> attempting to either create rain or dissipate storms simply for their
> own or their communities personal or commercial gain?


Good example of suppression...


> 
> What you do affects your neighbors and beyond so it would be irrational
> and socially irresponsible to promote the use of such technology no
> matter the temptations and even more disgusting if selling the plans are
> involved.  Why not just sell guns to teens if you are that devolved?


Jerry, if everyone had guns then how many people would be shooting
each other. The most recent mass shootings would had never got as
far as they did. Personally I would not own a gun.


> 
> Eventually weather control will be coordinated efforts on the part of
> many groups or even governments, rather than by isolated experimenters
> jerking the weather to bend to their will or particular pleasure of the
> day.


Yes, more government control... we are simply all too feeble-minded to
make
responsible choices. We need big brother to take care of us. 


> 
> Refer to the concerns of Joel Carlinksy as posted at;
> 
> http://www.keelynet.com/ecology/cloudbst.htm
> 
> The same philosophy and mode of socially conscious action applies to
> other technologies which produce more negatives than positives.
> 
> Some might argue that the free release of working free energy plans or
> gravity control plans (that WORK WHEN BUILT) as a simple proof of
> principle, desktop version, will cause much havoc.  That is probable,
> but society and the world will recover in short order without damage to
> health and life based on the CLAIMS I have seen (Moray, Hendershot,
> Coler, Keely, Hyde, Testatika, Hamel/Searl, Lambertsens WIN cells, etc.)


All of these people were attacked by the same thinking as you
have outlined within this very post.


> 
> The oil and power generation industries will be the first affected and
> the permutations to societies and governments will be enormous.


Yeh, freedom will return to the people... gee we can't have that now.
After all, it is not 1776, it is the new world order of things.


> 
> However, I am of the opinion such technologies will not take over in one
> night or even one year.  They will necessarily be phased in because
> someone, MANY SOMEONES will be building larger prototypes, testing and
> marketing them.


Oh, the beast rears its ungly head, commercialism.


> 
> It is up to not only each and every one of us but also the power and oil
> producers to get in on the ground floor for constructing, marketing and
> selling these units and maintaining/repairing them, but first we have to
> DISCOVER what WORKS and quit bragging or making claims without PROOF.
> The discoveries will then seep into all areas of society worldwide at
> various rates.


I beg to differ... the oil companies should make plastics and
step aside. Feedom should be restored to the people. Put into
the hands of he who controls the purse strings would be no better
than where we first started. People would remain slaves. We have
to break these chains or we are doomed.


> 
> There will no doubt be many new regulations dealing with safety concerns
> and UL type rating/certification of such free energy systems, flight
> controls for increased aerial and space craft traffic and the general
> overseeing of the quality, sales and practical use of such technologies.


These systems will be fail safe once all is said and done.
Why will we need regulations anymore? I will tell you, to
keep the noose around our necks!


> 
> Now with this erroneous and irreponsible idea that ONLY radioactive
> elements will be the answer to true 'free energy', are the health risks
> worth EVEN THAT DISCOVERY?


So, let's just give it up right now, right?
Let's feel safe and the heck with freedom?
After all, freedom is a good exchange for safety,
right?

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not
have, 
nor do they deserve, either one" 

                           -Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) 


> 
> Does it make sense to ignore the Casimir/ZPE force, ignore the forces
> which make the planets and electrons orbit, ignore tapping into earth or
> atmospheric currents, ignore natural temperature or electric differtials
> in favor of radioactivity?  They are certainly 'free' and certainly
> aren't sourced by radioactivity, so why take the chance?


My friend, the "ZPE" is the result of radioactive bombardment.
This is the real world, it is not OZ.


> 
> There are of course lots of radioactive elements but here I am concerned
> with the general health risks involved as well as the promotion of the
> use of any radioactive elements for free energy.  I maintain that such
> blatant promotion is irresponsible and without regard for anyone's
> health or safety and is sociopathic behavior solely for the acquisition
> of money.


Another flame. 

My website is full of edvidence that supports the safe use
of low-levels of radiation.

www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html

Take a close look at this study,

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/hormesis.htm


I would also like to point out that old uranium
miners lived in their 90's and very healthy.
T.H. Moray was exposed to levels that I'm sure
came close to the Curies. His lab is listed as
a Super Site today. Moray lived in his 80's.
He wouls have lived longer if he had not got
hit by a car a year before he died.


> 
> For instance, as a matter of noting health concerns with radioactive
> materials, in doomed attempts for 'free energy' or otherwise, the use of
> even depleted uranium (non-fissionable but still radioactive) in weapons
> still poses serious health hazards to the military personnel handling
> them as posted at;
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/8777/health.html
> 
> 'Depleted UF6 (DU) is a health risk because the uranium is radioactive
> and can cause cancer. It is also a heavy metal that has toxic effects,
> mostly on the kidneys, if it enters through the bloodstream by means of
> ingestion or inhalation.  The UF6 can react with moisture in the air
> producing HF, that damages the lungs if inhaled.
> 
> The health affects of the DU use are staggering. They are sufficiently
> soluble to contaminate soil, groundwater and surface water. These
> microscopic, radioactive heavy metal particles (DU and daughter cells
> like beryllium) can enter the body through ingestion and inhalation. The
> ingestion of the DU accumulates in the bones and kidneys, similarly to
> lead, the DU is permanently deposited.
> 
> The damages caused to the kidneys and tumor growths are irreversible. In
> pregnancy, DU crosses the placenta creating a higher risk for birth
> malformations because the cells are dividing so rapidly as the fetuses
> are developing.
> 
> The DU weapons have been traced to a increase in children diagnosed with
> cancer around the contaminated areas. 'When inhaled the radiation from
> the uranium continues to assault the bodies cells and their nuclei.'


I fully agree with this. "Gulf Syndrome" is a result of the mindless
bombings with shells that use depleted uranium. The uranium on impact
breaks up into particles of less than five microns. If anyone is 
interested I have a video that documents this crime against humanity.
I will live this file on my server for a few days. It will be pulled
thereafter as I fear reprocussions.

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/du.htm


>
> -------------------
> The efforts of Dr. Paul Brown as noted earlier and others like Dr.
> Roberto Monti are more representative of radioactive materials research
> which would BENEFIT rather than damage society because it is useful work
> being carried out by professionally trained and certified researchers
> who know full well the DANGERS of working with radioactive elements.


This is totally false. Because I do not have a Ph. D. attached to
my name does not make me wrong. So, I guess it is ok for a Ph. D.
to follow my work, give me no credit, then get monitary rerwards
for my pioneering work, correct? So, the no name pee on has no
right to make contributions, right? Two such examples of this type
of theft I pointed out at last weeks conference. It is now public
record and anyone can obtain a copy as proof.


> 
> Here is a scary URL about the 2000 tons per year of waste from nuclear
> power plants;
> 
> http://www.sightings.com/health/radioactive.htm
> 
> 'Every day, more than six tons of dangerous nuclear waste pile up at
> power plants around the country" more than 2,000 tons a year. The spent
> reactor fuel, highly radioactive for the next 10,000 years, has long
> been the nuclear industry's most vexing problem.'
> -----------------
> This URL shows leukemia and malignant tumors as radiation induced;
> 
> http://japan.park.org/Japan/Public/Hiroshima/htmleng/egenbak8.htm
> -----------------
> This is a problem which Dr. Browns research efforts could assist in
> resolving.  Note; Dr. Brown does not sell 'plans', Dr. Brown does not
> encourage anyone to remotely experiment with radioactive elements and in
> fact is vocal about the dangers.  Dr. Brown does not sell plans or
> recommendations instructing people how to process their own radioactive
> source materials from pitchblende or other materials.  Dr. Brown
> develops, tests, PROVES and patents his work.
> -----------------------


Dr. Brown does not have to sell anything. He is set for life.
He is literally receiving barrels full of government money.

I will scream from the rooftops how the "underlings" of our
society can take back what is belongs to them. If it takes
people processing their own materials then so be it. Yes,
there are risks involved, like anything else. It is my conviction
that freedom is worth any risk.

The only support I have is from the people that I reach.
I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists
such as this. I have no angels handing me money. I will
fight until the bitter end if need be.


>
> On the typical Internet bizarre level, I have seen arguments that the
> health concerns for radioactive materials exposures are completely
> inflated because the government does not want anyone to realize how easy
> it is to build their own atomic bomb so anytime they find a case of
> promiscuous abuse of concentracted radioactive materials, they make a
> big production out of it to further scare and escalate public concerns
> about the 'dangers' of radioacitivity.


As I have pointed out, it is not easy to make atomic bombs.
It would take millions of dollars to make an atomic bomb.
So, if someday an atomic bomb does go off somewhere you can
bet your life that it was the doings of some government
agency. There are indications that the OK. bombing was such
an incident. Galen Windsor had confirmed this. Now the
evidence has been burried.


> 
> One fellow (Galen Windsor?) used to publicly rail against this years ago
> and even videotaped himself drinking a glass of radioactive material
> without apparent harm to him.  I met him and his wife at a conference a
> few years ago and he didn't look too healthy to me but I did not ask
> about cancer or anything because that is personal information.


I know Galen personally. Yes, he did go around eating non soluable
uranium oxides. He has exposed the bogus claims of how deadly
radioactive
materials are. I won't go into details here, this post is already
too long. If anyone is interested I sell a two hour audio tape of
Galen exposing the rats.

Galen is getting old, he is approaching 90! What do you think you
are going to look like at that age?


> 
> Is it worth the risk of damaging your health, your friends or family or
> contaminating your local environment, whatever the reason for taking
> such a risk?   For free energy, its not worth it since there are better
> sources that will do more good than harm.


Give it up! No one said anything about radiation being the only
solution. If you have read my recent posts this is more than
clear.


> 
> Walter Russell wrote the wonderful book 'Atomic Suicide' warning against
> the health dangers from long lived radioactive elements and there does
> seem to be tons of information where exposure to radioactive elements
> produces cancer, mutation and organ death.


I suggest that you read some of the studies.
Show me Russell's studies that will support this claim.
"Put up or shut up!"


> 
> Again, is 'free energy' worth compromising your health or life as well
> as risking damage to your friends, family or local envirnonment?  As the
> McLaughlin panel says, the answer is NO, not remotely.


I am very much against conventional nuclear technology.
Conventional reactors are time bombs waiting to go off.
Fuel rods are under extreme pressures. God only knows
what deadly radio toxins are being leached into our 
soils, water, and air. All at the expense of us pee ons.


> 
> The formula is quite simple
> 
> => NEVER <
> 
> help but do not hinder. (Equal to or greater than but NEVER less than)
> -------------------
> A radiation article in Readers Digest a few months ago, entitled, "The
> Atomic Boyscout" told about how a boyscout studying atomic theory was
> able to acquire radium paint from old clocks.  (hmm, where have I heard
> this story before, but with radium coated watches???)
> 
> He got a few hundred smoke detectors and was able to contaminate the
> workshed in back of his house. The government had to send in a radiation
> cleanup crew in full isolation suits to clean up and haul it all away.
> 
> Now this boy, who was apparently very bright and simply wanting to learn
> has joined the Navy and is working in their atomic division doing real
> work of value.
> ----------------


He was forced to join the Navy or go to prison!
Welcome to Amerika!!! His passion killed!


>
> So I suggest any of you boyscouts out there promoting radioactive
> material as your answer to free energy, grow up and try to be a
> responsible man of integrity, take a good hard look at yourselves and
> your TRUE motives (trying to get suckers money) when you are
> recommending to anyone that they try to collect or otherwise experiment
> with radioactive materials.


More flaming!!! Look in the mirror!


> 
> Fine, hurt yourself if you so choose, but no one has the right to
> endanger others as a consequence of their uncaring activities or to
> promote or encourage others who might dimly think they will get 'free
> energy secrets' that REALLY work for a few bucks.
> --


If it were up to you we would have no right.
I am right or am I wrong?


>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187



Bill, please remove this guy from the list...


     Respectfully, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 17:01:29 1999
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Hi Folks!

I have always had concerns about the health dangers of radioactivity and
ANY claims of it as being a source for free energy or promoting
uncontrolled experimentation or accumulation and handling of it.

It is well documented that radioactive materials produce heat in their
decay AND cause cellular damage which becomes a health issue when
untrained, uncontrolled experimentation is promoted.

The use of the term sociopathic is generically applied to anyone who
maims or kills a member of society by their actions.  Sociopathic means
antisocial.

Radiation maims and kills life.  Isn't that true?
(let's not nitpick, concentrated radioactive emanations from radioactive
materials damages life processes and can result in death)

People make up society.  Isn't that true?

Since radiation kills and maims people who are members of society, that
is against society and thus sociopathic.  Isn't that true?

To my view, radioactive materials as a source aren't related remotely to
free energy as most think of it since its use as a heat source is well
documented and known in orthodox science as well as being in use in
nuclear power plants.  

Free energy as I understand it is a device using properties or phenomena
that are not well understood that runs itself and produces sufficient
energy to do work.  High voltage seems to be one of the keys since so
many refer to its use...the Hyde machine, the Testatika, the Hamel and
Searl claims, the N machine of Depalma and Tewari, T.T. Brown and
others, all of which are claims since no one has been able to
independently reproduce or test the free energy effects claimed.

People can do as they wish and will, which is as it should be, but
please do some homework about the very real dangers of radioactive
materials and decide if the risks to your family and environment are
worth it.  That's what I am saying.

I received an interesting email from an INE person saying I should be
careful about saying there are no working free energy devices as there
probably are, though not standalone they ARE overunity.

The references given were Shoulders and Tewari. 

Really?  It is my opinion that as long as a device MUST be connected to
AC power OR to a battery, then there is great room for error, either
from measurement errors or errors in calculating the powerin/powerout.

Let's say its an overunity device that requires a battery.  Ok, lets
take two batteries, put them both in a room with one battery feeding the
o/u generator which is driving a load AND keeping the 2nd battery fully
charged.

Now let it run for a month (or until the battery won't drive the o/u
circuit and load), driving a load that doesn't instantly drain the
battery.  The energy that comes from the device is used to charge the
spare battery and run the load with the excess.

When the first battery runs down to where it will not run the circuit,
swap in the 2nd battery and crank it back up again, let the o/u circuit
run the load and recharge the 2nd battery with the excess for another
month (or until the battery won't power the o/u circuit)

Even without measurements, this should be a test that would reveal if
the device is truly overunity since it would be able to recharge the
batteries over and over while keeping the load running.  The battery
life is normally about 3-5 years for lead acid before the plates become
sufficiently sulfated to not hold a useful charge.

Batteries produce heat when current is being extracted though it is
waste heat and lost energy.  Radioactive sources as heat producers are
long known and well understood and in use so any claims of it as 'free
energy' as I understand it is erroneous, misleading and dishonest since
it is known technology, asking the experimenter to risk their health or
life as well as risk their family and environment in the mistaken belief
they will get 'free energy'.

Tapping gravity influx, tapping the forces that cause the planets or
electrons to orbit, tapping the forces that create and sustain matter,
tapping into space/cosmic energy (waves) in other words forces that
consume no physical matter and do not pollute or harm life in the
operation of the device, those are my hopes for free energy sources.

Woops, I DID mention SOME names of living people, among them, Dr. Paul
Brown, Dr. Roberto Monti, Joel Carlinsky, Galen Windsor, all of whom I
have met or talked with.  I invite them to complain if I unjustly
categorized them.   The rest of the names are people long dead so maybe
they won't complain.

I did not mention Dr. John Moreland who has done excellent research,
much of it ripped off by others, into the REAL Moray Valve and the
composition of the mysterious 'swedish stone' which was at the heart of
it.  The last thing I read on it, he was saying the stone was radium
doped lead but I would have to ask him for an update.  

I did not see a complaint from Dr. Brown or Dr. Contie and in fact
quoted several corrobative URLs to back up my concerns about the dangers
of radioactive materials.

The list rules say;

 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages.  If your
    message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do
    not send it to freenrg-L.  Instead, use private email to send it
    directly to your target.  VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION.
    If someone insults you, contact the moderator.  See "Flamewars" 
    below for details.

There is no excuse for trading insults on this list.  As I state in the
welcome-msg, anyone who easily finds justification to violate rule #1 of
this forum, should not be here.
-------------
Therefore, concerns about health aspects from indiscriminate promotion
and use of radioactive elements for free energy production from ANYWHERE
isn't outside the list guidelines. 

I have been on the list since 1996 and did not sign up for the purpose
of advertising my products (of which I have none) or self promotion.

If I have information or insight into something posted to the list, I
share it, without trying to sell anything to anyone, no circuit boards,
no inverters, no Tesla coils or high voltage power supplies, no special
tubes or custom made parts, no capacitors or other components to
purchase as woven into any kind of free or shareware plans.

I wrote the shareware document at;

http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm

hoping it would evoke working devices to be shared as full plans that
others could build and verify for themselves, to date, to my knowledge,
no one has come forth (at KeelyNet or anywhere else using the true
non-sales shareware format) with a working device willing to trust their
plans to the document and letting the feedback prove the validity of the
claim.

I don't seek an audience for my products (because I have none), website
or personal income.  I work Mon-Fri 45 hours per week to pay my bills.

Anyone who takes offense when an email is posted that remotely involves
a subject they might be interested or involved in, then suggests or
states outright it was directed at them is simply paranoid.  

Asking that the poster be removed for it is out of bounds and
unwarranted.

How many people here are signed up for free energy?  How many have been
here more than a year?  Does that mean that everyone would take offense
if I said 'free energy isn't real' or that slammed Hamel, Searl, Tesla
(my god, NOT TESLA) or any other subject that they felt close to?

Radiation and free energy and even their linking is public information
and doesn't refer to any single person or group.

No one owns the field of either subject and therefore no one should take
offense from a post relating to the subject.

My generic concerns were taken as a personal insult when they were not
as I would have specifically named anyone I meant as with the other
names in the list of living people, most on the net, and some who might
subscribe here.

The resultant barrage was indeed targeted flames as specified in the
list guidelines.  Even then, I would never suggest that someone else be
removed from this list because they brought up a subject that someone
else might be touchy about for unknown reasons.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 17:32:41 1999
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Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 19:58:56 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Bill,

Decker is in clear violation of the "flaming" rule.
He has used several words and comments that is clearly
flames. He has made several comments against my character.
Even though he has not used my name everyone knows who this
attack is targeted against. I am being very careful not to
engage in Decker's flaming activities. Decker has warned me
not to send him e-mails to his address. However, he persists
in sending me very rude and threatening e-mails.

You have seen my rebutal in regards to my previous post.
I tire of constantly defending what I know to be the truth.

As for the mention of Dr. John Moreland, without being guilty of
flaming, I direct the reader to,

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/alloy.pdf

John had signed a non-disclosure with me back in 1996.
The notorized paper in the above link will show that
I had concieved this formula way before I met John. I 
also have documents in my possession that will prove
that Dr. John Moreland had a personal relationship with
Dr. Paul Brown. I will not go into further detail because
this is not the place for it.

It is my sincere desire to contribute my years of research
with this list. I do not see this happening id Jerry is
allowed to remain on this list. 


      -Bruce A. Perreault


Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> I have always had concerns about the health dangers of radioactivity and
> ANY claims of it as being a source for free energy or promoting
> uncontrolled experimentation or accumulation and handling of it.
> 
> It is well documented that radioactive materials produce heat in their
> decay AND cause cellular damage which becomes a health issue when
> untrained, uncontrolled experimentation is promoted.
> 
> The use of the term sociopathic is generically applied to anyone who
> maims or kills a member of society by their actions.  Sociopathic means
> antisocial.
> 
> Radiation maims and kills life.  Isn't that true?
> (let's not nitpick, concentrated radioactive emanations from radioactive
> materials damages life processes and can result in death)
> 
> People make up society.  Isn't that true?
> 
> Since radiation kills and maims people who are members of society, that
> is against society and thus sociopathic.  Isn't that true?
> 
> To my view, radioactive materials as a source aren't related remotely to
> free energy as most think of it since its use as a heat source is well
> documented and known in orthodox science as well as being in use in
> nuclear power plants.
> 
> Free energy as I understand it is a device using properties or phenomena
> that are not well understood that runs itself and produces sufficient
> energy to do work.  High voltage seems to be one of the keys since so
> many refer to its use...the Hyde machine, the Testatika, the Hamel and
> Searl claims, the N machine of Depalma and Tewari, T.T. Brown and
> others, all of which are claims since no one has been able to
> independently reproduce or test the free energy effects claimed.
> 
> People can do as they wish and will, which is as it should be, but
> please do some homework about the very real dangers of radioactive
> materials and decide if the risks to your family and environment are
> worth it.  That's what I am saying.
> 
> I received an interesting email from an INE person saying I should be
> careful about saying there are no working free energy devices as there
> probably are, though not standalone they ARE overunity.
> 
> The references given were Shoulders and Tewari.
> 
> Really?  It is my opinion that as long as a device MUST be connected to
> AC power OR to a battery, then there is great room for error, either
> from measurement errors or errors in calculating the powerin/powerout.
> 
> Let's say its an overunity device that requires a battery.  Ok, lets
> take two batteries, put them both in a room with one battery feeding the
> o/u generator which is driving a load AND keeping the 2nd battery fully
> charged.
> 
> Now let it run for a month (or until the battery won't drive the o/u
> circuit and load), driving a load that doesn't instantly drain the
> battery.  The energy that comes from the device is used to charge the
> spare battery and run the load with the excess.
> 
> When the first battery runs down to where it will not run the circuit,
> swap in the 2nd battery and crank it back up again, let the o/u circuit
> run the load and recharge the 2nd battery with the excess for another
> month (or until the battery won't power the o/u circuit)
> 
> Even without measurements, this should be a test that would reveal if
> the device is truly overunity since it would be able to recharge the
> batteries over and over while keeping the load running.  The battery
> life is normally about 3-5 years for lead acid before the plates become
> sufficiently sulfated to not hold a useful charge.
> 
> Batteries produce heat when current is being extracted though it is
> waste heat and lost energy.  Radioactive sources as heat producers are
> long known and well understood and in use so any claims of it as 'free
> energy' as I understand it is erroneous, misleading and dishonest since
> it is known technology, asking the experimenter to risk their health or
> life as well as risk their family and environment in the mistaken belief
> they will get 'free energy'.
> 
> Tapping gravity influx, tapping the forces that cause the planets or
> electrons to orbit, tapping the forces that create and sustain matter,
> tapping into space/cosmic energy (waves) in other words forces that
> consume no physical matter and do not pollute or harm life in the
> operation of the device, those are my hopes for free energy sources.
> 
> Woops, I DID mention SOME names of living people, among them, Dr. Paul
> Brown, Dr. Roberto Monti, Joel Carlinsky, Galen Windsor, all of whom I
> have met or talked with.  I invite them to complain if I unjustly
> categorized them.   The rest of the names are people long dead so maybe
> they won't complain.
> 
> I did not mention Dr. John Moreland who has done excellent research,
> much of it ripped off by others, into the REAL Moray Valve and the
> composition of the mysterious 'swedish stone' which was at the heart of
> it.  The last thing I read on it, he was saying the stone was radium
> doped lead but I would have to ask him for an update.
> 
> I did not see a complaint from Dr. Brown or Dr. Contie and in fact
> quoted several corrobative URLs to back up my concerns about the dangers
> of radioactive materials.
> 
> The list rules say;
> 
>  1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages.  If your
>     message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do
>     not send it to freenrg-L.  Instead, use private email to send it
>     directly to your target.  VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION.
>     If someone insults you, contact the moderator.  See "Flamewars"
>     below for details.
> 
> There is no excuse for trading insults on this list.  As I state in the
> welcome-msg, anyone who easily finds justification to violate rule #1 of
> this forum, should not be here.
> -------------
> Therefore, concerns about health aspects from indiscriminate promotion
> and use of radioactive elements for free energy production from ANYWHERE
> isn't outside the list guidelines.
> 
> I have been on the list since 1996 and did not sign up for the purpose
> of advertising my products (of which I have none) or self promotion.
> 
> If I have information or insight into something posted to the list, I
> share it, without trying to sell anything to anyone, no circuit boards,
> no inverters, no Tesla coils or high voltage power supplies, no special
> tubes or custom made parts, no capacitors or other components to
> purchase as woven into any kind of free or shareware plans.
> 
> I wrote the shareware document at;
> 
> http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm
> 
> hoping it would evoke working devices to be shared as full plans that
> others could build and verify for themselves, to date, to my knowledge,
> no one has come forth (at KeelyNet or anywhere else using the true
> non-sales shareware format) with a working device willing to trust their
> plans to the document and letting the feedback prove the validity of the
> claim.
> 
> I don't seek an audience for my products (because I have none), website
> or personal income.  I work Mon-Fri 45 hours per week to pay my bills.
> 
> Anyone who takes offense when an email is posted that remotely involves
> a subject they might be interested or involved in, then suggests or
> states outright it was directed at them is simply paranoid.
> 
> Asking that the poster be removed for it is out of bounds and
> unwarranted.
> 
> How many people here are signed up for free energy?  How many have been
> here more than a year?  Does that mean that everyone would take offense
> if I said 'free energy isn't real' or that slammed Hamel, Searl, Tesla
> (my god, NOT TESLA) or any other subject that they felt close to?
> 
> Radiation and free energy and even their linking is public information
> and doesn't refer to any single person or group.
> 
> No one owns the field of either subject and therefore no one should take
> offense from a post relating to the subject.
> 
> My generic concerns were taken as a personal insult when they were not
> as I would have specifically named anyone I meant as with the other
> names in the list of living people, most on the net, and some who might
> subscribe here.
> 
> The resultant barrage was indeed targeted flames as specified in the
> list guidelines.  Even then, I would never suggest that someone else be
> removed from this list because they brought up a subject that someone
> else might be touchy about for unknown reasons.
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 17:44:41 1999
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Message-ID: <37ACD277.EDC9EC60@keelynet.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 19:42:32 -0500
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Organization: KeelyNet
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To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com,
        William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
References: <37AC8907.EBD5DCEF@keelynet.com> <37ACA92D.52E0@cyberportal.net> <37ACC8B4.8A9A1EC3@keelynet.com>
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Hi Bill et al!

I wonder how many people are on the freenrg list and how long they have
been here?  I subscribed back around 1996, maybe a bit earlier but had
changed addresses so it might show as a bit later.

Every now and then there is a post with either some cool information or
a new URL, sometimes a new theory and a few times an experiment or two
as with Jean Naudin.

I found some other thoughts on how free energy would affect society and
the world which might be of interest;
----------------
Bruce Depalma on the social implications of working free energy devices;

http://depalma.pair.com/Absurdity/Absurdity04/FreeEnergyImplications.html
----------------
information about growing energy needs in the US;

http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_6_9_10.html

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:05:13 1999
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Message-ID: <37ACD7AA.25680AF2@keelynet.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:04:42 -0500
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Organization: KeelyNet
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To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
References: <37AC8907.EBD5DCEF@keelynet.com> <37ACA92D.52E0@cyberportal.net> <37ACC8B4.8A9A1EC3@keelynet.com> <37ACC840.3DA1@cyberportal.net>
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Geez, tried to do the right thing...and he does it again.

I posted the above thread specifically delineating radioactivity and
cloudbusting as examples of my concerns for free energy and alt science
distortions that can negatively affect many.  

It was not a flame and did not target any person or group, only a
subject.

It resulted in a flame to which I refused to respond.

I did not post a flame nor have I responded in anyway in this thread
after emailing Bill that I would cease responding to the flames
originally directed at me publicly.

Now, after all that he's at it again and insisting I be removed from the
list.

The following is untrue and cannot go uncorrected.

This was posted to the list;

>  Decker has warned me not to send him e-mails to his address. 

That is true based on a an intended repeat of the deluge of uninvited
insulting and defamatory emails received from you a year ago.

>  However, he persists in sending me very rude and threatening e-mails.

That is untrue, post them publicly or do not refer to that which again
cannot be proven because it is untrue.  

My last post to the above email address was a response to your uninvited
insulting emails because I won't support your claims...at that time, I
responded by again putting you on notice that your ISP would be
contacted AGAIN if you continued to harass my mailbox against my wishes. 

The last time, you nearly got kicked off your own ISP, so you stopped
immediately and you never heard from me again.  That is the last email I
sent you and it was a warning to stop.  You started up again recently.

So this statement made on a public list is untrue and needs to be
corrected.

I did not start this flamewar from day one, nor for this thread as the
emails clearly show on all, nor have I responded in kind on this
thread....but to state a lie that goes unchallenged?  Provide the proof.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:38:10 1999
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Message-ID: <37ACDF69.1663737@keelynet.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:37:45 -0500
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Organization: KeelyNet
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To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
References: <37AC8907.EBD5DCEF@keelynet.com> <37ACA92D.52E0@cyberportal.net>
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Some quotes of interest, along the lines of Tesla Speaks, not anything I
said;

>  It is my sincere desire to contribute my years of research with this 
>  list.

>  The only (financial) support I have is from the people that I reach. 
>  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.

>  I agree that conventional nuclear power plants are deadly. The fact 
>  is that they are even more deadly than you would care to know.

>  How much are we all paying each month on our electric bills each 
>  month to have these people who we trust only to be producing DEADLY 
>  substances that kill? 

>  If we took back our lives then these, ^%$#%^*)%$@## would no longer 
>  be living off the labor of WE THE PEOPLE.

>  I do not sell plans, I give them away for FREE through my website! 
>  The cd-roms are of a great service. They are reasonably priced.

>  If anyone is interested I sell a two hour audio tape of Galen 
>  exposing the rats.

>  Oh, the beast rears its ungly head, commercialism.

>  This is why I have not been able to do public demonstrations with 
>  the radiant energy cells.

>  This is the real world, it is not OZ.

>  It will be pulled thereafter as I fear reprocussions.

>  If it takes people processing their own materials then so be it. 
>  Yes, there are risks involved, like anything else. It is my 
>  conviction that freedom is worth any risk.

>  God only knows what deadly radio toxins are being leached into our 
>  soils, water, and air. 

>  I am right or am I wrong?
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:45:51 1999
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Message-ID: <37ACD967.4273@cyberportal.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 21:12:07 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
CC: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
References: <37AC8907.EBD5DCEF@keelynet.com> <37ACA92D.52E0@cyberportal.net> <37ACC8B4.8A9A1EC3@keelynet.com> <37ACC840.3DA1@cyberportal.net> <37ACD7AA.25680AF2@keelynet.com>
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Jerry,

I am now asking you to cease these types of posts.
Only you can not see your posts as flaming. Everyone
of this lisy knows who you are targeting. They are
not stupid or as gullable as you seem to think.

If anyone here wishes proof of your most recent 
rude e-mail addressed to me from you I will gladly
forward it to them. However, I will not post it
here as requested by Bill not to engage in your
flame war. 

I have refraned from insueing insults against you.
I have only posted factual edvidence to make my
case.

If anyone feels that I am wrong please send an e-mail
to Bill. If on the other hand you feel that I am the
victum here please ask Bill to have Decker removed
from this list.


     -Best Regards.


Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Geez, tried to do the right thing...and he does it again.
> 
> I posted the above thread specifically delineating radioactivity and
> cloudbusting as examples of my concerns for free energy and alt science
> distortions that can negatively affect many.
> 
> It was not a flame and did not target any person or group, only a
> subject.
> 
> It resulted in a flame to which I refused to respond.
> 
> I did not post a flame nor have I responded in anyway in this thread
> after emailing Bill that I would cease responding to the flames
> originally directed at me publicly.
> 
> Now, after all that he's at it again and insisting I be removed from the
> list.
> 
> The following is untrue and cannot go uncorrected.
> 
> This was posted to the list;
> 
> >  Decker has warned me not to send him e-mails to his address.
> 
> That is true based on a an intended repeat of the deluge of uninvited
> insulting and defamatory emails received from you a year ago.
> 
> >  However, he persists in sending me very rude and threatening e-mails.
> 
> That is untrue, post them publicly or do not refer to that which again
> cannot be proven because it is untrue.
> 
> My last post to the above email address was a response to your uninvited
> insulting emails because I won't support your claims...at that time, I
> responded by again putting you on notice that your ISP would be
> contacted AGAIN if you continued to harass my mailbox against my wishes.
> 
> The last time, you nearly got kicked off your own ISP, so you stopped
> immediately and you never heard from me again.  That is the last email I
> sent you and it was a warning to stop.  You started up again recently.
> 
> So this statement made on a public list is untrue and needs to be
> corrected.
> 
> I did not start this flamewar from day one, nor for this thread as the
> emails clearly show on all, nor have I responded in kind on this
> thread....but to state a lie that goes unchallenged?  Provide the proof.
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:51:33 1999
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Message-ID: <37ACDAC0.6DD6@cyberportal.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 21:17:52 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Power Technologies
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
CC: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
References: <37AC8907.EBD5DCEF@keelynet.com> <37ACA92D.52E0@cyberportal.net> <37ACDF69.1663737@keelynet.com>
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To list members,

These are all taking out of content.
At this point I am asking list members
to please write to Bill Beaty and lodge
a compliant. Thanks for your support.


       -Bruce A. Perreault



Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Some quotes of interest, along the lines of Tesla Speaks, not anything I
> said;
> 
> >  It is my sincere desire to contribute my years of research with this
> >  list.
> 
> >  The only <<this was added by Decker ->(financial) support I have is 
> >  from the people that I reach.
> >  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.
> 
> >  I agree that conventional nuclear power plants are deadly. The fact
> >  is that they are even more deadly than you would care to know.
> 
> >  How much are we all paying each month on our electric bills each
> >  month to have these people who we trust only to be producing DEADLY
> >  substances that kill?
> 
> >  If we took back our lives then these, ^%$#%^*)%$@## would no longer
> >  be living off the labor of WE THE PEOPLE.
> 
> >  I do not sell plans, I give them away for FREE through my website!
> >  The cd-roms are of a great service. They are reasonably priced.
> 
> >  If anyone is interested I sell a two hour audio tape of Galen
> >  exposing the rats.
> 
> >  Oh, the beast rears its ungly head, commercialism.
> 
> >  This is why I have not been able to do public demonstrations with
> >  the radiant energy cells.
> 
> >  This is the real world, it is not OZ.
> 
> >  It will be pulled thereafter as I fear reprocussions.
> 
> >  If it takes people processing their own materials then so be it.
> >  Yes, there are risks involved, like anything else. It is my
> >  conviction that freedom is worth any risk.
> 
> >  God only knows what deadly radio toxins are being leached into our
> >  soils, water, and air.
> 
> >  I am right or am I wrong?
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 18:56:59 1999
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Message-ID: <002a01bee141$3b0d3e00$8e5cadd1@default>
From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:56:26 -0400
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>> For instance, as a matter of social responsibility, there have been
>> numerous emails over the years comlaining why KeelyNet doesn't post
>> cloudbuster construction details (among others) which are of course now
>> freely available on the net.
>
>
>Yup, cloudbusters were powered by "orgone crystals." This material
>came straight out of New Hampshire... yup, its radioactive. :)

A *basic* cloudbuster isn't powered by anything, it's a passive device.  I think
I've even figured out how to explain it without invoking any "new" energy such
as "orgone", but that'll have to wait for another time.

Yes, Reich did try putting slightly radioactive material he called "ORUR" (not
"orgone crystals") in a cloudbuster and found that it greatly intensified the
effect.  But this material had been somehow transmuted by exposure to a strong
orgone field in Reich's lab in Maine (not New Hampshire).  The transmutation
process nearly killed him and his assistants, did kill all the plant life around
his lab, and even caused the surface of the rocks to disintegrate!  (He didn't
expect this.  He thought the orgone would neutralize the radioactivity.  It
*eventually* did, but possibly by *intensifying* the decay process.)

In short, do *not* put radioactive material in your cloudbuster!

--
Secretary, Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Member, Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 19:24:16 1999
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Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
> 
> >> For instance, as a matter of social responsibility, there have been
> >> numerous emails over the years comlaining why KeelyNet doesn't post
> >> cloudbuster construction details (among others) which are of course now
> >> freely available on the net.
> >
> >
> >Yup, cloudbusters were powered by "orgone crystals." This material
> >came straight out of New Hampshire... yup, its radioactive. :)
> 
> A *basic* cloudbuster isn't powered by anything, it's a passive device.  I think
> I've even figured out how to explain it without invoking any "new" energy such
> as "orgone", but that'll have to wait for another time.


It can be powered by a steam of moving water. The cables were placed in
the moving stream. The tubes draw in radon gas from the air due to this
draft. There is no moving streams where the laboratory sits. Reich had
to
use "orgone crystals." There are three types... Melanor, Brownite, and
Orite.
These materials were obtained from N.H. Yes, the laboratory is in
Rangely, Maine.
I have documents that show how to prepare these materials.


> 
> Yes, Reich did try putting slightly radioactive material he called "ORUR" (not
> "orgone crystals") in a cloudbuster and found that it greatly intensified the
> effect.  


"ORANUR" = OR (orgone) "A" (and) NUR (nuclear radiation) yields the
ORANUR EFFECT.
This is in Reich's First Report 1947-1951. It is when orgone energy
fights
nuclear radiation. This effect will neutralize radioactive materials.
The side
effect of these experiment made a person become immune to radiation
poision. 
Reich tryed to give this to the government and this is when he was
brought to
court and all of his books were odered burned.


>
> But this material had been somehow transmuted by exposure to a strong
> orgone field in Reich's lab in Maine (not New Hampshire).  The transmutation
> process nearly killed him and his assistants, did kill all the plant life around
> his lab, and even caused the surface of the rocks to disintegrate!  (He didn't
> expect this.  He thought the orgone would neutralize the radioactivity.  It
> *eventually* did, but possibly by *intensifying* the decay process.)


The laboratory outside walls collected radon and the radon decayied to
lead-210. Reich did not know this. The lead-210 eat at the rocks.
This material made people at the lab very sick. The radon accumulation
had to take place because the inside walls of the laboratory were lined
with sheet metal. This acted like a huge capacitor plate. Orgone energy
is a type of "K-capture" and this draws in postively charged radon and
alpha particles. So, yes, fission resulted from the ORANUR EFFECT. This
was something that the military did not want to get out. I suspect that
this is still the case today.

> 
> In short, do *not* put radioactive material in your cloudbuster!


I agree! Reich even warned not to do this. The cloudbuster effects
are intense when the orgone crystals are used. These should not be
used in combination with the cloudbuster unless you have first mastered
the cloudbuster powered by a moving stream of water.


      -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 19:27:47 1999
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> 
>   He is upset about purported radiation of your devices.
> What isotopes and what activities do you use?


At the momment I am using uranium ores with about 6,000 counts
per minute. The end products are "dirty" and in higher concentrations
would pose a contamination problem. However, commercial products
could use thorium as the source. This would be "clean" and there
would not be a concern.


      -BAP

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Hi Jim et al!

I didn't say anything about yet another error in the 'orgone crystals'
statement because it would just provoke another flame. Trying to get to
some discussion here that deals with reality or at least clearly ideas,
without any kind of flame response so your rational comment was very
welcome.

You are absolutely correct about cloudbusters not being powered, at
least no designs I've seen.  Trevor Constable designed that strange
contraption he calls the 'Black Widow' and by now, he must have other
designs.

Some friends from Europe passing through Dallas a few years ago showed
me the videotape from Borlands about Constables experiments on his ocean
voyage from LA to Hawaii.  

It was amazing...I think there were two of these things, that looked
like Gemini capsules....they were covered at the start of the cruise. 
The video shows clear skies and radar showed the same thing for many
miles.  

When he uncapped the black widows, it was about 40 minutes that the sky
started hazing up and soon droplets splattered against the window the
camera was aimed out of...they had a time elapsed indication and had
speeded it up so you could clearly see the formation of clouds and the
rain...by the time an hour had elapsed, it was raining very hard and
they were in a storm.  

Quite a video and it should still be available from Borderlands at;

http://www.borderlands.com 

for about $30 I think, haven't priced them lately.

And thanks for stating the warning about using radioactive ANYTHING with
orgone type devices due to the DOR (destructive orgone) that Reich
claimed was released. Some people might not know about that and it is
very important when carrying out any operation involving orgone energy. 

>From the descriptions of Reich and his students, it was like something
out of Batman or a Charles Addams picture, everything gray, gloomy and
dead looking, no birds, no insects, no indication of life or health over
the entire valley around the lab.

Wonder how the neighbors thought about that mysterious turn of the
weather?  Wonder if Reich ever told them what caused this malaise?

He also warns about repeated draws because it will setup a kind of
sustained suction or inertial roiling the aether that will continue to
draw and precipitate moisture long after the operation has been closed
down.  I understand Constable consulted with the government of Singapore
to relieve a drought condition and caused a month long monsoon that he
could not stop, so they ran him out of the country.  

The rain eventually stopped but the damage to property and life was
quite extensive.  I don't know this to be true, thats what the guys from
Europe told me after we watched the videotape.  Maybe someone could
clarify if that is incorrect?

One final comment, Dean and Mary Hardy were once involved with a group
who believed that a pyramid and an obelisk could be so constructed as to
be 'tuned' to each other despite being separated over distance.

They claim to have set up several networks of these devices to redirect
the weather for the most beneficial pattern when the Russian Woodpecker
signals and other Russian scalar transmissions were supposed to be
screwing up the weather.

Mary and Dean call the energy conduits between these tuned structures,
'Standing Columnar Waves' and say they react with orgone/aether/zpe
(your choice of term) to redirect the flows.

There is something intriguing going on between tuned structures where an
energy conduit does appear to form.  The best measuring system I've yet
seen for it is the electronic dowsing rods used with the molecular
frequency discriminator.  Some of us have tested this with conflicting
results.  But that's another story..<g>...
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 19:36:33 1999
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Another interesting quote that I did not make or respond to, nor do I
see a deluge of responses to the list from 'everyone', so this reveals
and confirms much;

>  I am now asking you to cease these types of posts.
>  Only you can not see your posts as flaming. Everyone
>  of this lisy knows who you are targeting. They are
>  not stupid or as gullable as you seem to think.

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 20:57:00 1999
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"Jerry W. Decker" wrote:
> 
> 
> And thanks for stating the warning about using radioactive ANYTHING with
> orgone type devices due to the DOR (destructive orgone) that Reich
> claimed was released. Some people might not know about that and it is
> very important when carrying out any operation involving orgone energy.
> 
> >From the descriptions of Reich and his students, it was like something
> out of Batman or a Charles Addams picture, everything gray, gloomy and
> dead looking, no birds, no insects, no indication of life or health over
> the entire valley around the lab.
> 
> Wonder how the neighbors thought about that mysterious turn of the
> weather?  Wonder if Reich ever told them what caused this malaise?
> 
> He also warns about repeated draws because it will setup a kind of
> sustained suction or inertial roiling the aether that will continue to
> draw and precipitate moisture long after the operation has been closed
> down.  I understand Constable consulted with the government of Singapore
> to relieve a drought condition and caused a month long monsoon that he
> could not stop, so they ran him out of the country.
> 
> The rain eventually stopped but the damage to property and life was
> quite extensive.  I don't know this to be true, thats what the guys from
> Europe told me after we watched the videotape.  Maybe someone could
> clarify if that is incorrect?
> 

I have read much of Reich's works, including a couple rare books
contained in the University of Illinois rare book room.

I would recommend that no one attempt to try any of Reich's experiments
until he or she has read some of Reich's original materials.

Reich realized the efect he could have on the environment and was
somewhat concerned about people haphazardly producing the same effects
without an understanding of the implications.

Read his own descriptions of what happened with the DOR when he tried
the experiment with radioactive materials and it will put it in the
proper perspective.

Radioactive materials when treated with care and understanding do not
have to be dangerous.  Without that care and understanding ... tread
lightly.

Zack Widup
Urbana, IL

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug  7 21:06:12 1999
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Hi Folks!

I was looking for something else and ran across this interesting comment
that I'd never read before from the researches of Dr. John Moreland;

"Where do I think the increased power of the new super-magnets come
from?  I will give you three guesses and the first two do not count. 
RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS! I will show the naturally occurring isotopes of
some of the materials used to make these super magnets.

If we take Cesium, we find it has only one isotope which accounts for
11.07% of the naturally occurring material.  We also see that it is an
alpha-emitter with an energy of 1.5 Mev.

If we now take Neodymium, we find it has only one isotope that accounts
for 23.85% of the naturally occurring material.  The alpha particle
emitted has an energy of 1.8 Mev.

And finally if we take Samarium we find it has three isotopes which
account for a total of 40.04% of the naturally occurring material.  The
energies of the alpha particles emitted are 2.24, 2.14 and 1.84 Mev.

It is evident that as the percentage and energy of the alpha particles
increase, so does the power of the magnetic material produced when
incorporating this material into magnets.

Another interesting property of these magnets is that once the material
is compressed in the mold and before it is energized to make it
magnetic, a Geiger counter will register activity from the radioactive
material.

However, once the material is energized and becomes a magnet, absolutely
no radiation can be detected.

My theory is that the energy of the alpha particle is being converted to
magnetic energy and thus increasing the magnetic power of the magnet as
the percentage of radioactive material and or the energy of the alpha
particle is increased.
---------------------
Now I know you can freeze or just get a magnet cold and the flux density
will increase as measured by proximity to a compass.

A lady friend told me she had an old refrigerator which barely kept her
food cool.  She put in a crystal and the food nearly froze.  I've known
this lady for many years and trust her judgment so wrote the observation
up at;

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/coldxtal.htm

What an interesting claim...conversion of alpha emissions to magnetic
flux. The address to make contact with and/or buy Dr. Morelands books
which was www.aztecpub.com but the website is no longer valid.  

The phone number listed is 615.888.3428 and the last known address was
Aztec Publishing, 1251 Smith Thompson Road, Bethpage, TN 37022, they
have a list of books by Dr. John Moreland and Dr. Paul Brown.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 04:11:12 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 01:29:23 -0400
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Jerry,

It is all too obvious that you are on a trail
to destroy my good name.

If you recall back in 1996 Moreland was my assistant.
He assisted me in my fist public lecture because I had
stage fright. This guy had access to 96% of all of my
notes, not to mention the many hours that my brain was
picked over the phone. Thank God that I did not trust
him enough to give him the other 4%. He sure has you
"conned." This Dr. associate had signed a non-disclosure
but this has not stopped him from taking my work and
claiming it as his own.


      -Bruce A. Perreault




Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> I was looking for something else and ran across this interesting comment
> that I'd never read before from the researches of Dr. John Moreland;
> 
> "Where do I think the increased power of the new super-magnets come
> from?  I will give you three guesses and the first two do not count.
> RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS! I will show the naturally occurring isotopes of
> some of the materials used to make these super magnets.
> 
> If we take Cesium, we find it has only one isotope which accounts for
> 11.07% of the naturally occurring material.  We also see that it is an
> alpha-emitter with an energy of 1.5 Mev.
> 
> If we now take Neodymium, we find it has only one isotope that accounts
> for 23.85% of the naturally occurring material.  The alpha particle
> emitted has an energy of 1.8 Mev.
> 
> And finally if we take Samarium we find it has three isotopes which
> account for a total of 40.04% of the naturally occurring material.  The
> energies of the alpha particles emitted are 2.24, 2.14 and 1.84 Mev.
> 
> It is evident that as the percentage and energy of the alpha particles
> increase, so does the power of the magnetic material produced when
> incorporating this material into magnets.
> 
> Another interesting property of these magnets is that once the material
> is compressed in the mold and before it is energized to make it
> magnetic, a Geiger counter will register activity from the radioactive
> material.
> 
> However, once the material is energized and becomes a magnet, absolutely
> no radiation can be detected.
> 
> My theory is that the energy of the alpha particle is being converted to
> magnetic energy and thus increasing the magnetic power of the magnet as
> the percentage of radioactive material and or the energy of the alpha
> particle is increased.
> ---------------------
> Now I know you can freeze or just get a magnet cold and the flux density
> will increase as measured by proximity to a compass.
> 
> A lady friend told me she had an old refrigerator which barely kept her
> food cool.  She put in a crystal and the food nearly froze.  I've known
> this lady for many years and trust her judgment so wrote the observation
> up at;
> 
> http://www.keelynet.com/energy/coldxtal.htm
> 
> What an interesting claim...conversion of alpha emissions to magnetic
> flux. The address to make contact with and/or buy Dr. Morelands books
> which was www.aztecpub.com but the website is no longer valid.
> 
> The phone number listed is 615.888.3428 and the last known address was
> Aztec Publishing, 1251 Smith Thompson Road, Bethpage, TN 37022, they
> have a list of books by Dr. John Moreland and Dr. Paul Brown.
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 04:24:40 1999
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Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim et al!
> 
> I didn't say anything about yet another error in the 'orgone crystals'
> statement because it would just provoke another flame. Trying to get to
> some discussion here that deals with reality or at least clearly ideas,
> without any kind of flame response so your rational comment was very
> welcome.


This is not an error! I have the document sitting right in front of me.
This type of response is why the secrets of "free energy" have remained
with "black op" projects. If Bill does not remove you from this list
then
I will leave. I will not subject myself to more of your disrespect.
Asking
for proof and engaging in a technical debate is one thing but calling me
a liar is quite another. You say that I am in "error" but did not follow
up on where the error is. The only data that you offered is 
Trever Constable's work with the cloudbuster. Like everything else you
are
relying on second-hand information.


> 
> You are absolutely correct about cloudbusters not being powered, at
> least no designs I've seen.  Trevor Constable designed that strange
> contraption he calls the 'Black Widow' and by now, he must have other
> designs.


Maybe not by Constable, but certainly by Reich.



       -Bruce A. Perreault

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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 05:21:27 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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> 
> Bruce:
> 
> Any parameters on the device?


Not many at this point. It is not at product level.


> 
> Cost?


This is hard to say at this point.
The cells should last a good six months.


>
> Cost to operate?


No more than a good radio receiver.


>
> Size?


About the size of a bread box.


>
> Fuel?


Radio Thorium cells.


>
> Safety?


Very low risk. Using thorium-228 as a source there is no
contamination problem. This can be seen in this first chart.
The second chart here shows that using radium-226 is dirty
and is a health hazard.

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/thorium.htm

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/radium.htm


>
> Energy output type, electric, heat, mechanical?
> When will it be available, kit, complete?


The output is electric at whatever frequency that is required. 
Kits or plans are out of the question. From experience it is 
better to sell this type of product leased. To overcome the 
transport problem we could process the material at the consumer's 
home or business. This type of product would have to be sold by 
word of mouth only because of the bad publicity associated with 
radioactive materials. The problem that I see at this point is that 
if someone gets sick that the device will automatically be blamed. 
This point alone will stop the sale of the device dead in its tracks. 
Additionally, I am having a hard time getting my own materials, let 
alone a commercial source. The stuff that I am formed to work with is 
uranium ore and it is not the clean stuff that I would feel at peace 
with myself putting into a commercial product. For a 6KW unit the risk 
is simply not acceptable. For a few watts I do not see any health risks.

I think the best option at this point is to sell something like hydrogen 
to people that was gotten from the energy of this technology. The idea
is to get people off the grid. However, this all costs money to setup,
something that has been in very short supply these days. I am attempting
to solve this money problem by offering a few products in the fall that
are spin-offs from my research. What is needed is one good product to
get the needed cash flow to launch the projects that are closer to my
heart.


       Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 08:54:15 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Bill,

This has to stop! Jerry has been putting has been sending
me e-mails directly to my address. I accidently have hit
the Re:Mail icon like I generally do. At this point I am
going to report him to his ISP and forward this post to
my own ISP. This is outright HARASSMENT!


     -Bruce A. Perreault


this is my 3rd request to you to stop harassing my email address with
your unsolicited, uninvited delusional rants to my email address

If you continue, I will once again report you to your ISP asking that
you be stopped or denied service from the Internet.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187





this is the 2nd post demanding that you stop harassing my email address
with your unsolicitied, uninvited delusional rants.

Contine and I will again report you to your ISP asking that you be
removed from internet access
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 09:13:27 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Dear Staff,

I am writing this e-mail because I am being harassed
by a guy named Jerry Decker. I have enclosed two of
his most recent e-mails to me.

This has to stop! This guy has been publically degrading
my character. I belong to a mailing list that I do not
want to leave. This guy has been sending me e-mails directly 
to my address. I accidently have hit the Re:Mail icon in every
now and then like I normally do to response to a list post. 
However, when this guy sends a post directly to me, sending
the post "CC:" to the list I do not always catch it. He is
trying to set me up again and make me look like the bad guy in
all of this. 

At this point I am going to report him to his ISP and Cc: this 
compliant to you. This is outright HARASSMENT!

I suspect that he owns his own server. So, reporting him to
his server will probably fall on deaf ears. At this point I
am willing to submit a compliant to the proper law inforcement
agencies.

Please go to -> http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html

Here you can see the flames that I have been put through.



     -Bruce A. Perreault



this is my 3rd request to you to stop harassing my email address with
your unsolicited, uninvited delusional rants to my email address

If you continue, I will once again report you to your ISP asking that
you be stopped or denied service from the Internet.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187





this is the 2nd post demanding that you stop harassing my email address
with your unsolicitied, uninvited delusional rants.

Contine and I will again report you to your ISP asking that you be
removed from internet access
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 09:57:04 1999
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From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Hi Folks!

Regarding the crystal in the refrigerator, I received an email asking if
there was a .gif of that...no, not yet.  When the anecdote was shared
with me, I asked her if she still had the crystal and she said yes, but
that she had moved several times and would have to find it.

I will ask her again if I can borrow it and try a similar experiment
with another refrigerator.  And take a photo as well as get some size
and weight measurements.  It was quartz with mutiple spikes on the top
as I recall.  

The anecdote is intriguing because IF it can be duplicated, perhaps a
novel connection to magnetism might be found.

The late Rory Johnson, whose work was carried on by Gerald Orlowski
claimed that magnetism tended to attract to itself as compared to
electricity which repels from itself.  Here is the web address which I
suggest you copy completely as you never know how long such sites will
be up and I'm showing this one since 1997 which is a good sign;

http://www.dnai.com/~zap/rory.htm

Thus, if he and others are correct, magnetism would be an inflowing,
centripetal, implosive, generating force allied with cold and alkali
properties.

Whereas electricity would have the opposite characteristics, outflowing,
centrifugal, explosive, dissipating force allied with heat and acid
properties.

You'd think based on MATTER, that expansion means cooling but energy
seems to operate opposite to matter.

Have to be careful what I post publicly these days so it won't be lifted
for sale or claimed as being yet another 'discovery' stolen from someone
else..<g>..that's never my goal...you see, I did not know that Bill had
arranged with eScribe to publicly archive ALL the posts to this list so
that anyone could see them and search through them at will.  

KeelyNet was on eScribe a long time ago as I found when I had need to
check out some earlier posts from our archive.  They used to archive all
our emails which then became searchable through the web using any search
engine. 

I noticed a freeNRG archive at eScribe and sure enough, it was the
same....neat...and much better than having to download an entire zip
file to wade through that does serve as a good resource for all of it at
one time.  The address is;

http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 10:17:36 1999
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:16:17 -0400
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>> A *basic* cloudbuster isn't powered by anything, it's a passive device.  I
think
>> I've even figured out how to explain it without invoking any "new" energy
such
>> as "orgone", but that'll have to wait for another time.
>
>
>It can be powered by a steam of moving water. The cables were placed in
>the moving stream. The tubes draw in radon gas from the air due to this
>draft. There is no moving streams where the laboratory sits.

Everything I have ever read says that at Orgonon, he connected the cables to a
deep well.

The part about drawing in radon gas is new to me.  Was there, in fact, enough
room in the cables for any significant amount of air to flow, especially
considering that it was connected to very long and narrow pipes?  (For those who
don't know what a cloudbuster was, we're talking about a type of electrical
cable called "BX", which had a flexible metal shield around the standard
plastic-insulated wires.  I don't see it much anymore.)

(By the way, the grounding-to-water requirement is the weak point in my personal
non-orgone theory, and why I haven't mentioned it yet.  Expect me to say
something vague about structured water when I do.)

>Reich had to use "orgone crystals." There are three types... Melanor, Brownite,
and Orite.
>These materials were obtained from N.H. Yes, the laboratory is in Rangely,
Maine.

Again, this contradicts everything I've ever read.  Melanor, Brownite, and
Orite, as far as I know, were by-products of the ORANUR reaction.  Melanor was
deposited on things in the vicinity of the lab, the other two I think were
decomposed rock.

What he used to power the cloudbuster in his experiments in the desert was
called Orur, and was the transmuted original radioactive samples that created
the ORANUR reaction in the first place.  When he saw what was happening and
could get them out of the accumulator, he buried them in a lead box, intending
to leave them there.  He only dug them up as a desperate measure after he became
convinced that we were under attack from space.

--
Secretary, Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Member, Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'


>Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
>>
>> >> For instance, as a matter of social responsibility, there have been
>> >> numerous emails over the years comlaining why KeelyNet doesn't post
>> >> cloudbuster construction details (among others) which are of course now
>> >> freely available on the net.
>> >
>> >
>> >Yup, cloudbusters were powered by "orgone crystals." This material
>> >came straight out of New Hampshire... yup, its radioactive. :)
>>
>I have documents that show how to prepare these materials.
>
>
>>
>> Yes, Reich did try putting slightly radioactive material he called "ORUR"
(not
>> "orgone crystals") in a cloudbuster and found that it greatly intensified the
>> effect.
>
>
>"ORANUR" = OR (orgone) "A" (and) NUR (nuclear radiation) yields the
>ORANUR EFFECT.
>This is in Reich's First Report 1947-1951. It is when orgone energy
>fights
>nuclear radiation. This effect will neutralize radioactive materials.
>The side
>effect of these experiment made a person become immune to radiation
>poision.
>Reich tryed to give this to the government and this is when he was
>brought to
>court and all of his books were odered burned.
>
>
>>
>> But this material had been somehow transmuted by exposure to a strong
>> orgone field in Reich's lab in Maine (not New Hampshire).  The transmutation
>> process nearly killed him and his assistants, did kill all the plant life
around
>> his lab, and even caused the surface of the rocks to disintegrate!  (He
didn't
>> expect this.  He thought the orgone would neutralize the radioactivity.  It
>> *eventually* did, but possibly by *intensifying* the decay process.)
>
>
>The laboratory outside walls collected radon and the radon decayied to
>lead-210. Reich did not know this. The lead-210 eat at the rocks.
>This material made people at the lab very sick. The radon accumulation
>had to take place because the inside walls of the laboratory were lined
>with sheet metal. This acted like a huge capacitor plate. Orgone energy
>is a type of "K-capture" and this draws in postively charged radon and
>alpha particles. So, yes, fission resulted from the ORANUR EFFECT. This
>was something that the military did not want to get out. I suspect that
>this is still the case today.
>
>>
>> In short, do *not* put radioactive material in your cloudbuster!
>
>
>I agree! Reich even warned not to do this. The cloudbuster effects
>are intense when the orgone crystals are used. These should not be
>used in combination with the cloudbuster unless you have first mastered
>the cloudbuster powered by a moving stream of water.
>
>
>      -Bruce A. Perreault
>
>
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 10:27:00 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:26:46 -0500
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Organization: KeelyNet
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FAQ - Who is harassing who?  What does the TO: say??

(I only wish this thread name was compliant, however, it is the
unschooled spelling of the word complaint)

The facts again...
----------------------
Subject: Re: Cloudbuster
Date:    Sun, 08 Aug 1999 01:43:03 -0400
From:    "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Organization: Nu Power Technologies
To:      jdecker@keelynet.com

>  If Bill does not remove you from this list then I will leave.

----------------------
Subject: Re: Cloudbuster
Date:    Sun, 08 Aug 1999 01:43:03 -0400
From:    "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Organization:  Nu Power Technologies
To:      jdecker@keelynet.com

>  I belong to a mailing list that I do not want to leave.

----------------------------
Subject: Re: Social Responsibility & the quest for 'free energy'
Date:    Sat, 07 Aug 1999 21:12:07 -0400
From:    "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>

If anyone here wishes proof of your most recent rude e-mail addressed to
me from you I will gladly forward it to them. However, I will not post
it here as requested by Bill not to engage in your flame war. 

----------------------------
Subject:  Compliant
Date:     Sun, 08 Aug 1999 06:31:48 -0400
From:     "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To:       admin@cyberportal.net
CC:       freenrg-l@eskimo.com

>  I have enclosed two of his most recent e-mails to me.

>  At this point I am willing to submit a compliant to the proper law 
>  inforcement agencies.

----------------------------

Please do so, the facts are clear and well documented.  You came here
only recently only to seek an audience for financial support which you
openly admit in your own words.

>  The only (financial) support I have is from the people that I reach. 
>  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.

My original comment was;

>  ..........! oh puhleeze !.........
>  first it was blue beam posts, now 
>  conspiracy, cult, secrecy, paranoia,
>  and the guru/messiah complex, I can't 
>  hit my delete key fast enough as it is..

It never mentioned your name, your website or any target yet resulted in
a deluge of responses ONLY from you, no one else on the list, even the
person who posted the blue beam email to the list did not respond or
take offense.

I have been a contributing subscriber to the freenrg list for years, not
for sales or self-promotion or flames but to share information and be
involved in discussions regarding the topics as posted as part of the
agreement.

I have refrained from responding to these incessant paranoid posts per
the email to Bill agreeing to NOT respond 'in kind' or generate flames. 
You continue as the facts clearly show.

I rest my case.

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:03:34 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 14:11:58 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> FAQ - Who is harassing who?  What does the TO: say??
> 
> (I only wish this thread name was compliant, however, it is the
> unschooled spelling of the word complaint)


Thanks for the spelling lesson. I have round fifty e-mails
per day to address. The subject spelling as been corrected.


<<snip>>


> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> Please do so, the facts are clear and well documented.  You came here
> only recently only to seek an audience for financial support which you
> openly admit in your own words.
> 
> >  The only (financial) support I have is from the people that I reach.
> >  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.


This is totally untrue. You have fabricated this. 
You added the word "financial" yourself.

If you are so much against using radioactive materials in free energy
devices then why are you supporting Dr. Moreland and Dr. Brown? You
even posted the radioactive magnet article to your keely mailing list
giving full credit to Dr. Moreland, something that you stated that you
do not do.


> 
> My original comment was;
> 
> >  ..........! oh puhleeze !.........
> >  first it was blue beam posts, now
> >  conspiracy, cult, secrecy, paranoia,
> >  and the guru/messiah complex, I can't
> >  hit my delete key fast enough as it is..
> 
> It never mentioned your name, your website or any target yet resulted in
> a deluge of responses ONLY from you, no one else on the list, even the
> person who posted the blue beam email to the list did not respond or
> take offense.


People can go back to the posts and see for themselves.
It is clear who is the target of your attacks.


> 
> I have been a contributing subscriber to the freenrg list for years, not
> for sales or self-promotion or flames but to share information and be
> involved in discussions regarding the topics as posted as part of the
> agreement.


Just because you have been on this list does not give you the right
to break its rules. If I recall, you were selling a book on Keely.
Am I right or am I wrong? Discussion is one thing but degrading
someone on the list is another.


> 
> I have refrained from responding to these incessant paranoid posts per
> the email to Bill agreeing to NOT respond 'in kind' or generate flames.
> You continue as the facts clearly show.
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187


For the most part I have responded to the technical aspects of your
attempt to discredit my contributions. I have done so without flaming
you as requested by Bill Beaty. 

Again, I am tired of this stuff coming to my e-mail box. I do not have
the time to deal with this. I have more important issues to address.

I am once again requesting Bill Beaty to remove you from this list.


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:17:30 1999
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Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
> 
> Everything I have ever read says that at Orgonon, he connected the cables to a
> deep well.


I have actually gone to the laboratory on a number of occasions.
Many things are not written in the published texts. I got some
nice pictures during my visits. If I did not have to deal with
the flamewar that is targeted at me then there would be time for
me to scan them in.


> 
> The part about drawing in radon gas is new to me.  Was there, in fact, enough
> room in the cables for any significant amount of air to flow, especially
> considering that it was connected to very long and narrow pipes?  


The cables are hollow... they are attached to the tubes. These hollow
cables
lead to a closed base that house the orgone crystals. There are other
cloudbuster
configurations but I will not discuss them until this flamewar is put
out.


>
> (For those who
> don't know what a cloudbuster was, we're talking about a type of electrical
> cable called "BX", which had a flexible metal shield around the standard
> plastic-insulated wires.  I don't see it much anymore.)


Yes, Reich pulled out the wires.


> 
> (By the way, the grounding-to-water requirement is the weak point in my personal
> non-orgone theory, and why I haven't mentioned it yet.  Expect me to say
> something vague about structured water when I do.)
> 
> >Reich had to use "orgone crystals." There are three types... Melanor, Brownite,
> and Orite.
> >These materials were obtained from N.H. Yes, the laboratory is in Rangely,
> Maine.
> 
> Again, this contradicts everything I've ever read.  Melanor, Brownite, and
> Orite, as far as I know, were by-products of the ORANUR reaction.  Melanor was
> deposited on things in the vicinity of the lab, the other two I think were
> decomposed rock.


I have a report giving by the person who was hired by Reich to do the
scrapings
here in NH. This report details the chemistry. What is interesting is
that the
material is mostly Potassium. It is my theory that this material had a
higher
percentage of Potassium-40, thus, K-capture being what Reich called
"Orgone."


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:21:53 1999
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From: "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Sustained TMB Current
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:23:13 -0500
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A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive a
green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.

For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm

Rex Allen.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:41:00 1999
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X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: Joe <joe1@i1.net>
cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: fractal coils
In-Reply-To: <37AD0807.76B554E4@i1.net>
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On Sat, 7 Aug 1999, Joe wrote:

> Let's say I have a plastic spring, and wrapped it with wire. I'd then
> have a coil with self-repetition. What could it do?

It would be very long, yet compact.  DNA works this way; I've heard that
it has about 5 stages of spirals.  When DNA splits, how do the two copies
avoid creating a tangled knot?  I don't know, but it has something to do
with this fractal spiral.  Light bulb filaments are like this too.  If you
get a big 2000-watt stage-light bulb and take out the filament, you'll
find that it is a thick coil, but its made from a smaller coil, and THAT
coil is made from a smaller coil!  They do this because a straight-wire
2000-watt filament would be very long. 

If you put a fast-rising high voltage pulse on one end of a long fractal
coil, I don't know exactly what would happen.  The pulse would be slowed
by the inner spiral, but would be slowed even more by the bigger one.
Hey, maybe this is a method for creating a Tesla Coil with extremely low
frequency.  If we make a thin, very tall Tesla coil secondary, the
frequency will be very low.  If we then wind the whole thing around a
cylindrical coil form, the Tesla coil will be very small.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 11:51:14 1999
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From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker@keelynet.com>
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Clarification and options for resolution;

> >  The only (financial) support I have is from the people that I reach.
> >  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.

>  This is totally untrue. You have fabricated this. 
>  You added the word "financial" yourself.

Yes, I DID ADD 'financial' so we are ALL PERFECTLY CLEAR on what SUPPORT
means as clearly indicated by your own unedited words;

>  If we took back our lives then these, ^%$#%^*)%$@## would no longer 
>  be living off the labor of WE THE PEOPLE.

>  I do not sell plans, I give them away for FREE through my website! 
>  The cd-roms are of a great service. They are reasonably priced.

>  If anyone is interested I sell a two hour audio tape of Galen 
>  exposing the rats.

>  Oh, the beast rears its ungly head, commercialism.

With regard to KeelyNet SELLING anything, wrong AGAIN, click on any of
the headers or files and see WHO is selling;

>  If I recall, you were selling a book on Keely.
>  Am I right or am I wrong?

>  I have done so without flaming you as requested by Bill Beaty. 

wrong again...

>  I am tired of this stuff coming to my e-mail box.

as are we all, solution;

>  If Bill does not remove you from this list then I will leave.

YET (new subscriber - translation 'I RECENTLY belong' for a reason)

>  I belong to a mailing list that I do not want to leave.

why? back to square one in your own words (sans financial);

> >  The ONLY (financial) SUPPORT I have is from the people that I reach.
> >  I do this through lectures, articles, and MAILING LISTS SUCH AS THIS.

options;

1)  yield to the demand of a new member, here primarily for 'support' 
    as he himself stated and proceed to unsubscribe a long time member

Extract from item 1 in user guidelines;
    If you respond in kind to a nonexistant insult, then *you* threw
    the first punch.  So, if you feel offended, first ask the author if
    a particular statement is intended to be insulting. You might get an
    explanation or apology. 
    And if you give a cool-headed response to an obvious attack, you
make 
    your attacker look like a flamer.

(I received no request asking IF I was intending to be insulting.  I was
not then and am not now, all I asked was that such paranoid material not
be sent to a list which forwards it to my mailbox as a long term
member.  

I would THEN and will NOW apologize publicly if that was the
'perception' fron a 'nonexistent insult' that drew the 'first punch',
then I will state I did not intend it to be insulting or targeting by
specifically naming any single person or group as reading it with
comprehension of the English language shows.)
 
Extract from item 6 in user guidelines;
    Anyone who spams freenrg-list with off-topic advertizing will be 
    referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team. 
    Note: WEIRD SCIENCE now has a free for-sale area.

2)  unsubscribe the new member (which I NEVER asked for and would not 
    want to see because I DO think he has something to contribute but 
    not hiding behind suppression, conspiracy or paranoia AND without 
    using the list and open email boxes primarily for self-promotion to 
    draw new 'support')

3)  unsubscribe BOTH members (a logical choice though history, purpose, 
    participation, FACTS of beginning and escalation all play a part
that 
    requires consideration)

Solomon decides or the group decides (I trust Bill to do the right thing
but I really like the idea of the group deciding, perhaps BOTH and flip
a coin?...<g>..)

Help, Mr. Wizard!!!
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 12:48:36 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 15:56:32 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Subject: Re: Complaint
References: <37AD5C94.2409@cyberportal.net> <37ADBDD6.5CE00ABE@keelynet.com> <37ADC86E.3DE0@cyberportal.net> <37ADD192.FCB8F28A@keelynet.com>
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Dear List Members,

Support comes in many forms. It does not have to include
money. I am tired of being manipulated by a play on my words. 
As for the first punch, everyone knows that I have been the
intended target.

If people want me to leave this list I will gracefully step 
out. It really does not make any difference how long that I 
have been here. However, I do think that if it is Jerry Decker
that should leave then he should also take it like a man.

Anyone that is reading this post please reply to
William Beaty at mailto:William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>

If you think that we should both stay then I will leave
on my own accord... I will not be the focus of this sort
of degradation.


     Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault 	



Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> 
> Clarification and options for resolution;
> 
> > >  The only (financial) support I have is from the people that I reach.
> > >  I do this through lectures, articles, and mailing lists such as this.
> 
> >  This is totally untrue. You have fabricated this.
> >  You added the word "financial" yourself.
> 
> Yes, I DID ADD 'financial' so we are ALL PERFECTLY CLEAR on what SUPPORT
> means as clearly indicated by your own unedited words;
> 
> >  If we took back our lives then these, ^%$#%^*)%$@## would no longer
> >  be living off the labor of WE THE PEOPLE.
> 
> >  I do not sell plans, I give them away for FREE through my website!
> >  The cd-roms are of a great service. They are reasonably priced.
> 
> >  If anyone is interested I sell a two hour audio tape of Galen
> >  exposing the rats.
> 
> >  Oh, the beast rears its ungly head, commercialism.
> 
> With regard to KeelyNet SELLING anything, wrong AGAIN, click on any of
> the headers or files and see WHO is selling;
> 
> >  If I recall, you were selling a book on Keely.
> >  Am I right or am I wrong?
> 
> >  I have done so without flaming you as requested by Bill Beaty.
> 
> wrong again...
> 
> >  I am tired of this stuff coming to my e-mail box.
> 
> as are we all, solution;
> 
> >  If Bill does not remove you from this list then I will leave.
> 
> YET (new subscriber - translation 'I RECENTLY belong' for a reason)
> 
> >  I belong to a mailing list that I do not want to leave.
> 
> why? back to square one in your own words (sans financial);
> 
> > >  The ONLY (financial) SUPPORT I have is from the people that I reach.
> > >  I do this through lectures, articles, and MAILING LISTS SUCH AS THIS.
> 
> options;
> 
> 1)  yield to the demand of a new member, here primarily for 'support'
>     as he himself stated and proceed to unsubscribe a long time member
> 
> Extract from item 1 in user guidelines;
>     If you respond in kind to a nonexistant insult, then *you* threw
>     the first punch.  So, if you feel offended, first ask the author if
>     a particular statement is intended to be insulting. You might get an
>     explanation or apology.
>     And if you give a cool-headed response to an obvious attack, you
> make
>     your attacker look like a flamer.
> 
> (I received no request asking IF I was intending to be insulting.  I was
> not then and am not now, all I asked was that such paranoid material not
> be sent to a list which forwards it to my mailbox as a long term
> member.
> 
> I would THEN and will NOW apologize publicly if that was the
> 'perception' fron a 'nonexistent insult' that drew the 'first punch',
> then I will state I did not intend it to be insulting or targeting by
> specifically naming any single person or group as reading it with
> comprehension of the English language shows.)
> 
> Extract from item 6 in user guidelines;
>     Anyone who spams freenrg-list with off-topic advertizing will be
>     referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team.
>     Note: WEIRD SCIENCE now has a free for-sale area.
> 
> 2)  unsubscribe the new member (which I NEVER asked for and would not
>     want to see because I DO think he has something to contribute but
>     not hiding behind suppression, conspiracy or paranoia AND without
>     using the list and open email boxes primarily for self-promotion to
>     draw new 'support')
> 
> 3)  unsubscribe BOTH members (a logical choice though history, purpose,
>     participation, FACTS of beginning and escalation all play a part
> that
>     requires consideration)
> 
> Solomon decides or the group decides (I trust Bill to do the right thing
> but I really like the idea of the group deciding, perhaps BOTH and flip
> a coin?...<g>..)
> 
> Help, Mr. Wizard!!!
> --
>            Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>          http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
>       Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
>    KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 12:49:16 1999
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Note the email addresses....spamming who?

Subject: Re: Increasing magnet field strength
Date:    Sun, 08 Aug 1999 01:29:23 -0400
From:    "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To:      jdecker@keelynet.com
CC:      freenrg-l@eskimo.com

>  If you recall back in 1996 Moreland was my assistant.

oh, you mean Dr. John Moreland?...ok, if you think so.

>  This Dr. associate had signed a non-disclosure but this has not 
>  stopped him from taking my work and claiming it as his own.

So SUE him since YOU SAY you have a signed non-disclosure.  However,
please note who IS and who IS NOT still in 'business';

>>  The address to make contact with and/or buy Dr. Morelands books
>>  which was www.aztecpub.com but the website is no longer valid.  
>>  The phone number listed is 615.888.3428 and the last known 
>>  address was Aztec Publishing, 1251 Smith Thompson Road, 
>>  Bethpage, TN 37022, they have a list of books by Dr. John 
>>  Moreland and Dr. Paul Brown.

If anyone has any information as to whether Aztec is still in business
or not, I would be interested in checking out their legitimate research
publications.  Thanks.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 13:13:23 1999
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The thread name itself has no place here, so who is it that keeps
generating these zingers?  

Could it be............... moi?  WRONG AGAIN...or in terms of the
linguistically and ethically challenged, 'Am I right or am I wrong?'

>  As for the first punch, everyone knows that I have been the
>  intended target.

Everyone knows?  

Thus the number of responses in support of either....uh, no that's not
exactly true as in WRONG AGAIN...one person doesn't speak for EVERYONE
in the real world.

>  I do think that if it is Jerry Decker that should leave then he 
>  should also take it like a man.

Even after years of being here and making contributions

so I shall 'take it like a man', ignore the FACT that IT WAS I who
posted the options in TRYING TO RESOLVE THIS.  Were they accepted or
considered by the flamER, NO.  Isn't that odd?

>  If you think that we should both stay then I will leave on my own 
>  accord

Just checked the NWS at;

http://www.nws.bnl.gov/ 

and it wasn't snowing in Hades yet...maybe I have the wrong URL???

I love it, a him or me or I'll take my toys and leave position.  

Him or me says much in my psychology class.

If its time for me to leave, all I ask is that it be for a real reason, 
from a sane response based on the FACTS, 

not as a result of 'manipulation' and demand from one whose 'position'

clearly offers a good argument for how handling radioactive materials
WILL damage the brain.

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 16:18:35 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 13:16:06 -1000
Subject: Re: My Complaint: Shut up.
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Dear Friendlies:

If either or both of you would just discuss the nuts and bolts of various
ideas and inventions with a minimum of antagonism, then please stay - I find
both of your ideas, as well as the counter arguments, quite interesting. If
either or both of you can't do that, then please leave. Don't look for daddy
Billy or supposed public support to make your decision for you. Just do it
on your own, or maybe I'll unsubscribe myself for a while and check in again
in a couple of weeks or so. I was getting kind of excited there for a minute
about the 500khz and virtual antenna stuff. Then... sheesh.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 16:37:07 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: My Complaint: Shut up.
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:36:33 PDT
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I agree Rick...
well said.
Timothy flytcher
San Luis Obispo, CA
>
>Dear Friendlies:
>
>If either or both of you would just discuss the nuts and bolts of various
>ideas and inventions with a minimum of antagonism, then please stay - I 
>find
>both of your ideas, as well as the counter arguments, quite interesting. If
>either or both of you can't do that, then please leave. Don't look for 
>daddy
>Billy or supposed public support to make your decision for you. Just do it
>on your own, or maybe I'll unsubscribe myself for a while and check in 
>again
>in a couple of weeks or so. I was getting kind of excited there for a 
>minute
>about the 500khz and virtual antenna stuff. Then... sheesh.
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 17:16:38 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:14:28 -0400
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
From: Rymel <rymel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Harassment by Jerry Decker
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dude SHUT UP! you wanna bitch about decker go right ahead! do it offlist! i
get enough mail off the list as is! i dont even read half of it anymore,
it's mostly bitchin between you two. cut it out already! i'm probly half
the age of the both of you and i bitch less than you guys. jeezus fuckin
christ man..."no flames allowed on list" must have soem fine print allowing
the 'regulars' to bitch as much as they want. grow up man... 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 19:06:51 1999
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X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
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Subject: OK, *I'LL* stop it.
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The flamewar is over.

Anyone who wishes to continue the "discussion" in public can do so on
VORTEXB-L, where there are no rules.  Seriously.  My intention is not to
suppress any voices, my intention is to ban flamewars and to FORCE
subscribers to obey the simple rules of this forum, especially rule #1. 
Those who repeatedly violate the rules may not use FREENRG-L.


To subscribe to vortexb-L, send a blank message to
vortexb-L-request@eskimo.com with the single word "subscribe" in the
subject line of the message header. 



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 22:27:35 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Cc: atglab@atgroup.org
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:10:49 -0700
Subject: Are Testatika and TMB related ?
Message-ID: <19990808.222742.-363081.0.tv@juno.com>
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Rex, thank you for sharing this interesting discovery of the TMB. 

It occurred to me when I saw your post that the TMB  might be related to
principle of the Testatika machine invented by members of the Christian
community known as Methernitha in Switzerland.

The Testatika also employs stacks of dissimilar metal plates.   One part
of the Testatika has a stack of dissimilar metal plates with clear
plastic or glass between the plates.  The whole assembly is also placed
between the poles of what looks like a horseshoe magnet.   It is also
said that perforated dissimilar metal plates are used in the large
"leyden jars".

The people from Methernitha claim that the Testatika extracts energy from
air.  It is also claimed that it cools the air in the process.   If this
is true, it would tell me that it is somehow cohering (ordering) thermal
fluctuation energy.  In other words it is deriving useful high grade
energy in the form of electricity from the kinetic energy of air
molecules.   This leads me to a number of speculations.

As Bill says on his TV shows, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING............

It is well known that it takes a certain amount of energy to remove an
electron from the surface of a metal.  This is called the work function. 
 Different metals have different work functions.

If two uncharged dissimilar metal objects make contact, electrons will
flow from the metal with the smaller work function to the metal with the
greater work function.  The potential difference (voltage) between the
metal objects quickly reaches the difference of contact potentials and
the current stops as equilibrium is reached.

One might think that you could build a circuit of dissimilar metals and
get a continuous current.   But this results in equal and opposite
junctions.  Thus, you cannot make a continuous current this way, unless
the junctions are at different temperatures. In which case, you have a
thermocouple.

What happens if dissimilar metals are not in contact but rather separated
and exposed to an ionized gas consisting of an excess of either positive
or negative ions ?

Because of the different work functions, I would expect that there would
be a difference of potential.  Could this be used to make some kind of
gas-electrolyte battery ?

The problem that immediately comes to mind when I consider this is the
reverse junction problem.   The dissimilar metals would still have to
make contact somewhere in the circuit and therefore would create a
counter a voltage.   But what if there was a way to alter one of the
contact potential so they were not equal and opposite.   Could a magnetic
field alter a contact potential ? 

The inventor of the Testatika has stated that it will not work as well,
or at all, unless the metals plates in the "laden jars"  (and other
parts) use perforated metal plate or screens.  This would suggest to me
that air (or ion) flow is important for it to function.  Also the
Methernitha people say the humidity has a big effect on the Testatika.  
Part of the Testatika machine is a Wimhurst generator.  Like other
electrostatic machines, Wimhurst generators are effected by moisture in
the air.  Also it is difficult to sustain ionized air in high humidity
conditions.

The Wimhurst machine in the Testatika no doubt produces large amounts of
ionized air.   Perhaps the core of the "leyden jars" is an ion emitter
and the concentric dissimilar metal screens are for picking up the ions. 
 Maybe the strange magnet metal plate/plastic stack assemblies utilize
the TMB effect to make it all work ???

So maybe the Testatika is a kind of battery powered by the kinetic energy
of ionized air molecules.

Rex, Please could you tell more details on how your 3 plate LED lighting
cell is constructed ?

What happens when you ionize the air near the apparatus ?   Maybe try
rubbing a balloon on a sweater or a cat.

Tim
( tv@juno.com )


On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:23:13 -0500 "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org> writes:
>A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive 
>a
>green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>
>For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>
>Rex Allen.
>
>

Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug  8 23:34:58 1999
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Mr. Beaty, I would like you to know that I find it very
appalling to receive a bunch of e-mails with two bickering
hens at each others throat.  I do not think I asked to be
listed on a list with two scientists showing themselves as
immature adults with the added benefit that one can spell
and, mock the other into hysteria.  These two are the prime
example of why mainstream science is attractive to the
younger generation.  Why they bicker back and forth with
each other instead of devoting their useful time to the
conception of free energy, some one else will beat them to
the objective.  You I have spent allot of time listening to
my children fight and argue, these two guys have my children
beat, BY FAR!  I just wanted to say this  "HOW INTELLECTUAL
CAN WE BE!!!"  As a scientist I find my time limited to
this, What can I learn And how can I use it?  With these two
it's this "let me see here, I wonder if I can piss him off
some more with this statement?"  We as scientists should
posses the skill and knowledge of CONSTRUCTIVE
CRITICISM!!!!!!!.  Can you two guys base your character and
your philosophical ideas in this?  Or is that toooo much for
ya!!!!

Brian!!!!!!

--------------6E073C6F45AC2EF8D447098A
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<i><font face="Tahoma">Mr. Beaty, I would like you to know that I find
it very appalling to receive a bunch of e-mails with two bickering hens
at each others throat.&nbsp; I do not think I asked to be listed on a list
with two scientists showing themselves as immature adults with the added
benefit that one can spell and, mock the other into hysteria.&nbsp; These
two are the prime example of why mainstream science is attractive to the
younger generation.&nbsp; Why they bicker back and forth with each other
instead of devoting their useful time to the conception of free energy,
some one else will beat them to the objective.&nbsp; You I have spent allot
of time listening to my children fight and argue, these two guys have my
children beat, BY FAR!&nbsp; I just wanted to say this&nbsp; "HOW INTELLECTUAL
CAN WE BE!!!"&nbsp; As a scientist I find my time limited to this, What
can I learn And how can I use it?&nbsp; With these two it's this "let me
see here, I wonder if I can piss him off some more with this statement?"&nbsp;
We as scientists should posses the skill and knowledge of CONSTRUCTIVE
CRITICISM!!!!!!!.&nbsp; Can you two guys base your character and your philosophical
ideas in this?&nbsp; Or is that toooo much for ya!!!!</font></i><i><font face="Tahoma"></font></i>
<p><i><font face="Tahoma">Brian!!!!!!</font></i></html>

--------------6E073C6F45AC2EF8D447098A--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 00:46:30 1999
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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 21:46:03 -1000
Subject: Big Wednesday
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Can't wait for Wednesday. Could be the day some standard notions about 
relativity take a major turn. Those ideas came to dominate this century at
its beginning on the heels of observations of an eclipse. It would be too
cool if the century closed out with an eclipse finishing off some of those
ideas while giving birth to new ones. Might mean a little more traffic for
Vortex-C, too. <g>

Gravitometer negatives won't meant much, keep your eyes those pendulums. The
effect, if real, may depend on the extra (angular?) momentum in the detector
which the gravitometers don't have.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 00:57:59 1999
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--=====================_111688612==_.ALT
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>
> >  I do not think I asked to be listed on a list with two scientists=
 showing
> themselves as immature adults with the added benefit that one can spell=
 and,
> mock the other into hysteria.  These two are the prime example of why
> mainstream science is attractive to the younger generation.


is that so? personally i found science attractive is because i love to know=
 how
things work. that's the reason why all the kids i know are into science and
technology. we want to know, and we're dissatisfied with the information
presented at the time.  we're not as old as all of you, so obviously we're
inexperienced, since most of my circle of friends interested in this range
between 15-20 years of age.  originally i joined this list just to learn=
 about
electrogravitics, and to date i've only seen like, 3 discussions on the=
 topic,
i think all were initiated by Jean Naudin, who ignores all but 1 or 2 of=
 emails
on e-grav, incidentally.  For a group of people who are supposedly=
 open-minded
this list is extremely closed to anybody not in the know.  I may not have
degrees in physics or whatever the hell you all have but i still find it
interesting.


>
> >  I have spent allot of time listening to my children fight and argue,=
 these
> two guys have my children beat, BY FAR!


At least SOMEONE agrees with me....

just for the record, i'm only 18, and brian is right, kids now are heavily
interested in science and technology.  the reason being is because everyone
they see tells them they CANT do that.  The fact that most scientific minds
dismiss children as ignorant and incapable of comprehending only fuels the
fire.

  Have you ever taken a look at what's gone on in news lately? The Littleton
incident where the kids threw pipe bombs and fired shotguns, the clich=E9d=
 term
"hackers", little kids taking up programming daily.  Do you really think a
stupid kid could create pipe bombs, find a source of firearms & blackmarket
goods, crack computer systems and create programs?  How do you think they do=
 it
so well or easily? It's because we dont worry about the technicalities as=
 much
as you older people.

  You all stress about formulas and whatnot. if you gave a smart kid
information on building something, minus formulas, he could probably build=
 it.=20
It would be less effective, granted, but he's not worried about that half as
much as the rest of you stress.  if it dont work he'll simply mess with it=
 til
it does.  i've begun to get irritated by all the people saying "well where's
the data?" and "oh that's nothing, i got it x times better than you". y'know
for a group that's always up for 'constructive criticism' you bite back=
 pretty
nasty when someone merely questions it. if the guy has no data tell him to
bring it to a damned convention or something, dont burn him til he comes up
with data. rushing someone only causes them to fuck up, simple as that.=20

y'know i actually thought Decker was cool, but apparantly he can't take
criticism either.  Sorry Jerry, but unlike the rest of you i never HEARD of=
 the
guy until recently, how could i have heard of his claims?

Just some food for thought. i hate it when i'm challenged for not saying
anything. if i could i would, dont say i dont got balls.

--=====================_111688612==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>&gt;<font face=3D"Tahoma"><i>&nbsp; I do not
think I asked to be listed on a list with two scientists showing
themselves as immature adults with the added benefit that one can spell
and, mock the other into hysteria.&nbsp; These two are the prime example
of why mainstream science is attractive to the younger
generation.</font></i></blockquote><br>
is that so? personally i found science attractive is because i love to
know how things work. that's the reason why all the kids i know are into
science and technology. we want to know, and we're dissatisfied with the
information presented at the time.&nbsp; we're not as old as all of you,
so obviously we're inexperienced, since most of my circle of friends
interested in this range between 15-20 years of age.&nbsp; originally i
joined this list just to learn about electrogravitics, and to date i've
only seen like, 3 discussions on the topic, i think all were initiated by
Jean Naudin, who ignores all but 1 or 2 of emails on e-grav,
incidentally.&nbsp; For a group of people who are supposedly open-minded
this list is extremely closed to anybody not in the know.&nbsp; I may not
have degrees in physics or whatever the hell you all have but i still
find it interesting.<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"Tahoma"><i><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>&gt;&nbsp; I have spen=
t
allot of time listening to my children fight and argue, these two guys
have my children beat, BY FAR!</font></i></blockquote><br>
At least SOMEONE agrees with me....<br>
<br>
just for the record, i'm only 18, and brian is right, kids now are
heavily interested in science and technology.&nbsp; the reason being is
because everyone they see tells them they CANT do that.&nbsp; The fact
that most scientific minds dismiss children as ignorant and incapable of
comprehending only fuels the fire.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; Have you ever taken a look at what's gone on in news lately? The
Littleton incident where the kids threw pipe bombs and fired shotguns,
the clich=E9d term &quot;hackers&quot;, little kids taking up programming
daily.&nbsp; Do you really think a stupid kid could create pipe bombs,
find a source of firearms &amp; blackmarket goods, crack computer systems
and create programs?&nbsp; How do you think they do it so well or easily?
It's because we dont worry about the technicalities as much as you older
people.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; You all stress about formulas and whatnot. if you gave a smart kid
information on building something, minus formulas, he could probably
build it.&nbsp; It would be less effective, granted, but he's not worried
about that half as much as the rest of you stress.&nbsp; if it dont work
he'll simply mess with it til it does.&nbsp; i've begun to get irritated
by all the people saying &quot;well where's the data?&quot; and &quot;oh
that's nothing, i got it x times better than you&quot;. y'know for a
group that's always up for 'constructive criticism' you bite back pretty
nasty when someone merely questions it. if the guy has no data tell him
to bring it to a damned convention or something, dont burn him til he
comes up with data. rushing someone only causes them to fuck up, simple
as that. <br>
<br>
y'know i actually thought Decker was cool, but apparantly he can't take
criticism either.&nbsp; Sorry Jerry, but unlike the rest of you i never
HEARD of the guy until recently, how could i have heard of his
claims?<br>
<br>
Just some food for thought. i hate it when i'm challenged for not saying
anything. if i could i would, dont say i dont got balls.<br>
</html>

--=====================_111688612==_.ALT--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 02:05:20 1999
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>NASA Space Science News for August 6, 1999
>
>A Solar Eclipse, Global Measurements, and a Mystery: On August 11, 
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>
>Full Story at:
>
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>    link for AOL users</a>
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>
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Huffman Technology Company
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 03:25:15 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: Are Testatika and TMB related ?
Cc: atglab@atgroup.org, tv@juno.com
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 99  11:22:10 +0100
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Hi,
great success !

Do you have the 3rd plate at the right side of the right magnet ?

Did you try it with perforated plates yet ? (Testatika concept)

You siad on your web page:
"The power now being obtained is sufficient enough to power a green LED and
supply an IR drop across a 10 ohms resistor in series with the LED. "

Why did you not try to put 2  LEDs in series to also use the
IR drop voltage at the 10 Ohm resistor as a usable output ?

With 2 LEDs you could probably forget the 10 Ohm resistor and
power 2 LEDs at the same time ?

Good luck !

Best regards, Stefan.



At 22:10 08.08.99 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote:
>Rex, thank you for sharing this interesting discovery of the TMB. 
>
>It occurred to me when I saw your post that the TMB  might be related to
>principle of the Testatika machine invented by members of the Christian
>community known as Methernitha in Switzerland.
>
>The Testatika also employs stacks of dissimilar metal plates.   One part
>of the Testatika has a stack of dissimilar metal plates with clear
>plastic or glass between the plates.  The whole assembly is also placed
>between the poles of what looks like a horseshoe magnet.   It is also
>said that perforated dissimilar metal plates are used in the large
>"leyden jars".
>
>The people from Methernitha claim that the Testatika extracts energy from
>air.  It is also claimed that it cools the air in the process.   If this
>is true, it would tell me that it is somehow cohering (ordering) thermal
>fluctuation energy.  In other words it is deriving useful high grade
>energy in the form of electricity from the kinetic energy of air
>molecules.   This leads me to a number of speculations.
>
>As Bill says on his TV shows, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING............
>
>It is well known that it takes a certain amount of energy to remove an
>electron from the surface of a metal.  This is called the work function. 
> Different metals have different work functions.
>
>If two uncharged dissimilar metal objects make contact, electrons will
>flow from the metal with the smaller work function to the metal with the
>greater work function.  The potential difference (voltage) between the
>metal objects quickly reaches the difference of contact potentials and
>the current stops as equilibrium is reached.
>
>One might think that you could build a circuit of dissimilar metals and
>get a continuous current.   But this results in equal and opposite
>junctions.  Thus, you cannot make a continuous current this way, unless
>the junctions are at different temperatures. In which case, you have a
>thermocouple.
>
>What happens if dissimilar metals are not in contact but rather separated
>and exposed to an ionized gas consisting of an excess of either positive
>or negative ions ?
>
>Because of the different work functions, I would expect that there would
>be a difference of potential.  Could this be used to make some kind of
>gas-electrolyte battery ?
>
>The problem that immediately comes to mind when I consider this is the
>reverse junction problem.   The dissimilar metals would still have to
>make contact somewhere in the circuit and therefore would create a
>counter a voltage.   But what if there was a way to alter one of the
>contact potential so they were not equal and opposite.   Could a magnetic
>field alter a contact potential ? 
>
>The inventor of the Testatika has stated that it will not work as well,
>or at all, unless the metals plates in the "laden jars"  (and other
>parts) use perforated metal plate or screens.  This would suggest to me
>that air (or ion) flow is important for it to function.  Also the
>Methernitha people say the humidity has a big effect on the Testatika.  
>Part of the Testatika machine is a Wimhurst generator.  Like other
>electrostatic machines, Wimhurst generators are effected by moisture in
>the air.  Also it is difficult to sustain ionized air in high humidity
>conditions.
>
>The Wimhurst machine in the Testatika no doubt produces large amounts of
>ionized air.   Perhaps the core of the "leyden jars" is an ion emitter
>and the concentric dissimilar metal screens are for picking up the ions. 
> Maybe the strange magnet metal plate/plastic stack assemblies utilize
>the TMB effect to make it all work ???
>
>So maybe the Testatika is a kind of battery powered by the kinetic energy
>of ionized air molecules.
>
>Rex, Please could you tell more details on how your 3 plate LED lighting
>cell is constructed ?
>
>What happens when you ionize the air near the apparatus ?   Maybe try
>rubbing a balloon on a sweater or a cat.
>
>Tim
>( tv@juno.com )
>
>
>On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:23:13 -0500 "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org> writes:
>>A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive 
>>a
>>green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>>
>>For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>>
>>Rex Allen.
>>
>>
>
>Tim
>( tv@juno.com )
>
>
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 08:42:22 1999
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Hi,

What do you mean by work function, please explain. I am working on a battery
and I need to know.

thanks.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 09:14:07 1999
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Rymel wrote:


> For a group of people who are supposedly open-minded, this list is
> extremely closed to anybody not in the know. 


<snip>

> y'know for a group that's always up for 'constructive criticism' you
> bite back pretty nasty when someone merely questions it. 


Yeah, it sucks.

We are the people who've had our ideas and discoveries suppressed by
people sneering and ridiculing us as if THEY were smart and WE were
ignorant.  So what happens next?  We adopt sneering and ridicule as our
tools!  We find somebody who knows less than us, and turn on the sneering
ridicule!  It's like when abused children grow up to become abusive
parents.  Like when a downtrodden peasant becomes president, and they
crush any peasant opposition with terrorism and torture.  It's like a
bullied nerd in school who grows up to become the vice principal who
supports the jocks and smiles when nonconformists are beaten up.  The
victims of bullies can't wait to get a chance to be the bully and keep the
nasty crap going, yet they have no awareness that this is what they're
doing.

The only way out of it is for us to REFUSE to do those things to others
that have been done to us.  The only way out is to take an honest look at
ourselves and be disgusted.  I find that most people look at themselves
and like what they see, and it's because they are trying to repair their
deflated egos by staying intentionally blind to all of their faults.  It's
ego tripping, and if we cannot see the disgusting patterns inside of us
that are obvious to any outsiders, then we'll never have any need to
change.  My advice to everyone is to listen to your enemies, since they
will give you a very honest analysis of everything that's wrong with you. 
And when we say "what's wrong with that idiot?!!", be aware that we
ourselves will probably be pulling that same crap next week, but THEN it's
ALRIGHT, see?  It's only offensive when somebody else does it, not when we
ourselves do it.  Yeah, right. 


> I may not have
> degrees in physics or whatever the hell you all have but i still find it
> interesting.

I bet that nobody on this list has a physics degree.  I run this list and
the website, and I'm mostly just a C programmer.  We are all amateur
researchers (some professional inventors), but are there any SCIENTISTS
here?  I mean degrees, funding, publications?  No.  Real scientists won't
touch Free Energy.  Only crackpots and crazies will take it seriously.
I'm a crackpot/crazy/misfit, not a scientist.


>   Have you ever taken a look at what's gone on in news lately? The
> Littleton incident where the kids threw pipe bombs and fired shotguns,
> the clichd term "hackers", little kids taking up programming daily.  Do
> you really think a stupid kid could create pipe bombs, find a source of
> firearms & blackmarket goods, crack computer systems and create
> programs?  How do you think they do it so well or easily? It's because
> we dont worry about the technicalities as much as you older people. 


Here's a brand new website devoted to collecting stories of peer abuse in
the public schools.  It looks like a good place for ostracized/misfit
"science nerds" like us to do a bit of healthy venting.  Or at least to
discover that they're not alone. 

  TALES FROM THE HELLMOUTH
  http://www.hellmouth.org



Here's the archived discussion from the slashdot.org forum which inspired
the above site.   (slashdot.org is a cool place):

  JonKatz:  Voices from the Hellmouth  (large, 1.6 megs)
  http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml
   
    In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went
   on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant
        and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds,
     non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than
      before. Stories all over the country embarked on witchunts that
      amounted to little more than Geek Profiling. All weekend, after
    Friday's column here, these voiceless kids -- invisible in media and
      on TV talk shows and powerless in their own schools -- have been
   e-mailing me with stories of what has happened to them in the past few
       days. Here are some of those stories in their own words, with
    gratitude and admiration for their courage in sending them. The big
      story out of Littleton isn't about violence on the Internet, or
     whether or not video games are turning out kids into killers. It's
        about the fact that for some of the best, brightest and most
    interesting kids, high school is a nightmare of exclusion, cruelty,
                          warped values and anger.

                              <huge snip>


  TALES FROM THE HELLMOUTH
  http://www.hellmouth.org

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L






((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 09:20:01 1999
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, patrick tremblay wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> What do you mean by work function, please explain. I am working on a battery
> and I need to know.

Work-function is a voltage that any atom has, also any material has it.

To remove one electron totally, it takes a certain voltage.

Because of this, when two different metals are placed in contact, their
W.F. voltages fight each other, and the *difference* in voltage appears
across the metals.  Touch copper to aluminum, and each aquires an opposite
charge.

It also works with electrolytes.  Touch salt-water to metal, and the metal
will become charged oppositely to the water.  This voltage is created by
the difference in work-function voltages between the atoms of the two
different materials. 

In solar cells, the 0.7 volts is the difference in work-function between
the N and P doped semiconductor.

In thermocouples, the current appears because the work functions change
with temperature, and if two metals are hot and in contact, the total
voltage across them (the difference in their individual work-function
voltages) will not be the same as the voltage of a cold junction between
the same metals.



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 09:33:42 1999
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Message-Id: <199908091635.NAA17566@bigbox.plug-in.com.br>
From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:33:25 -3
Subject: OFF-TOPIC :  http://www.alladvantage.com
Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br
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Hi,

Sorry for the off-topic, but I'd like to know if this service really works.

The site is at :

http://www.alladvantage.com

Any comments about it would be welcome.

In case you decide to join the service, please don't forget to mention my 
referre's ID :

DTJ-608

Thanks.


---
Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 10:58:07 1999
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Cc: interact@Keelynet.com
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it does pay, but you have to keep a viewbar open above or below your
browser open at any time you're using your browser in order for it to log
your usage.

 the viewbar's about...1-1 1/2 inches tall and spans the width of the
screen, and you can choose whether it's on top or bottom. forgot to mention
that it takes a while for htem to authorize your ID,  but if you want to
get paid for goin online, go for it. little cheater you may as well exploit
-- go to a site that has a reloading frame, so as far as the viewbar knows,
you're 'actively' online...just go to bed, it'll rack up the money..it's 50
cents an hour, not much, but just hope people use your referral ID#, and
refer others *cof*advertise on the site bill*cof* ;)

At 01:33 PM 8/9/99 +00-03, Marcelo Puhl wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>Sorry for the off-topic, but I'd like to know if this service really works.
>
>The site is at :
>
>http://www.alladvantage.com
>
>Any comments about it would be welcome.
>
>In case you decide to join the service, please don't forget to mention my 
>referre's ID :
>
>DTJ-608
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>---
>Marcelo Puhl
>mark@plug-in.com.br


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 11:30:31 1999
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Subject: Decrypting the Eclipse
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:30:21 +0200
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Hi

For all of those of you interested in torsion pendulum experiment involving
the eclipse have a look at the following pages on my site.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Allais.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Saxl.htm

Regards
Martin
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/
_______________________________________________
We have enough gun control.
 What we need is idiot and criminal control.
_______________________________________________



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 12:08:42 1999
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thanks very much bill,

Now I understand better.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 12:19:18 1999
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Good afternoon.
According to the periodic table, Thorium 232 decays by Alpha emission.
Does
this make this material difficult to handle?

Jonghwa Chang wrote:

>I am sorry for delayed reply. I was on summer vacation last week.
>Anyway, Th-232 is natural thorium. If you handle only small amount,
>it not very toxic. What you need is only normal rubber globe and a >mask. 
>Thorium alpha is much small that uran alpha.

-----------------------------------
Jonghwa Chang,
Nuclear Data Evaluation Lab.
Korea Atomic Energy Research Institute,
P.O. Box 105, Yusong,
Taejon, Korea, 305-600
voice: +82-42-868-2884     fax: +82-42-868-2636
e-mail: jhchang@kaeri.re.kr
alternate e-mail: jh_chang@hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 12:20:25 1999
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I agree to not hit others,

But frustration can be a good source of creativity and motivation. So I was
bullied and it gave me the desire of power at first to bully others myself, but
next it's for control and stop others to bully others.

SO if you were bullied, don't throw away your frustrations in the garbage like
that and end up been bullied for nothing, take that frustration and become
powerful yourself, just the fact of being great in front of your earlier
bullies will make them regret and that's enough. You don't have to hit them
back yourself, but now you are their boss and you can control them, and that's
great.

Also, not just bullies but poverty and sickness and ignorance can be
frustrative situations. So go out, take your frustrations and attack the
source. Fight illnesses that threated you and killed your friends and loved
ones. Put all the school text on the internet so in the future we will not have
to go to school and endure the real bullies: the system, and when you are big
let your earlier bullies know it so they can feel small and you avenged without
having to do dirty things yourself.

All the people that bullied Bill Gates today feel sorry about it. SO think
twice before putting an awesome power to the garbage.


William Beaty wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Rymel wrote:
>
> > For a group of people who are supposedly open-minded, this list is
> > extremely closed to anybody not in the know.
>
> <snip>
>
> > y'know for a group that's always up for 'constructive criticism' you
> > bite back pretty nasty when someone merely questions it.
>
> Yeah, it sucks.
>
> We are the people who've had our ideas and discoveries suppressed by
> people sneering and ridiculing us as if THEY were smart and WE were
> ignorant.  So what happens next?  We adopt sneering and ridicule as our
> tools!  We find somebody who knows less than us, and turn on the sneering
> ridicule!  It's like when abused children grow up to become abusive
> parents.  Like when a downtrodden peasant becomes president, and they
> crush any peasant opposition with terrorism and torture.  It's like a
> bullied nerd in school who grows up to become the vice principal who
> supports the jocks and smiles when nonconformists are beaten up.  The
> victims of bullies can't wait to get a chance to be the bully and keep the
> nasty crap going, yet they have no awareness that this is what they're
> doing.
>
> The only way out of it is for us to REFUSE to do those things to others
> that have been done to us.  The only way out is to take an honest look at
> ourselves and be disgusted.  I find that most people look at themselves
> and like what they see, and it's because they are trying to repair their
> deflated egos by staying intentionally blind to all of their faults.  It's
> ego tripping, and if we cannot see the disgusting patterns inside of us
> that are obvious to any outsiders, then we'll never have any need to
> change.  My advice to everyone is to listen to your enemies, since they
> will give you a very honest analysis of everything that's wrong with you.
> And when we say "what's wrong with that idiot?!!", be aware that we
> ourselves will probably be pulling that same crap next week, but THEN it's
> ALRIGHT, see?  It's only offensive when somebody else does it, not when we
> ourselves do it.  Yeah, right.
>
> > I may not have
> > degrees in physics or whatever the hell you all have but i still find it
> > interesting.
>
> I bet that nobody on this list has a physics degree.  I run this list and
> the website, and I'm mostly just a C programmer.  We are all amateur
> researchers (some professional inventors), but are there any SCIENTISTS
> here?  I mean degrees, funding, publications?  No.  Real scientists won't
> touch Free Energy.  Only crackpots and crazies will take it seriously.
> I'm a crackpot/crazy/misfit, not a scientist.
>
> >   Have you ever taken a look at what's gone on in news lately? The
> > Littleton incident where the kids threw pipe bombs and fired shotguns,
> > the clichd term "hackers", little kids taking up programming daily.  Do
> > you really think a stupid kid could create pipe bombs, find a source of
> > firearms & blackmarket goods, crack computer systems and create
> > programs?  How do you think they do it so well or easily? It's because
> > we dont worry about the technicalities as much as you older people.
>
> Here's a brand new website devoted to collecting stories of peer abuse in
> the public schools.  It looks like a good place for ostracized/misfit
> "science nerds" like us to do a bit of healthy venting.  Or at least to
> discover that they're not alone.
>
>   TALES FROM THE HELLMOUTH
>   http://www.hellmouth.org
>
> Here's the archived discussion from the slashdot.org forum which inspired
> the above site.   (slashdot.org is a cool place):
>
>   JonKatz:  Voices from the Hellmouth  (large, 1.6 megs)
>   http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml
>
>     In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went
>    on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant
>         and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds,
>      non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than
>       before. Stories all over the country embarked on witchunts that
>       amounted to little more than Geek Profiling. All weekend, after
>     Friday's column here, these voiceless kids -- invisible in media and
>       on TV talk shows and powerless in their own schools -- have been
>    e-mailing me with stories of what has happened to them in the past few
>        days. Here are some of those stories in their own words, with
>     gratitude and admiration for their courage in sending them. The big
>       story out of Littleton isn't about violence on the Internet, or
>      whether or not video games are turning out kids into killers. It's
>         about the fact that for some of the best, brightest and most
>     interesting kids, high school is a nightmare of exclusion, cruelty,
>                           warped values and anger.
>
>                               <huge snip>
>
>   TALES FROM THE HELLMOUTH
>   http://www.hellmouth.org
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 13:01:15 1999
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Tim,

If it is any help to you it was confirmed to me that an antenna
was connect to the Testatika. The movie demonstration also shows
a bare wire insulated by ceramic insulators running up the side
of a granite wall. This indicates to me that this device was
electrostically powered. The two revolving discs may be flywheels
to regulate the output frequency.

      -BAP


tv@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Rex, thank you for sharing this interesting discovery of the TMB.
> 
> It occurred to me when I saw your post that the TMB  might be related to
> principle of the Testatika machine invented by members of the Christian
> community known as Methernitha in Switzerland.
> 
> The Testatika also employs stacks of dissimilar metal plates.   One part
> of the Testatika has a stack of dissimilar metal plates with clear
> plastic or glass between the plates.  The whole assembly is also placed
> between the poles of what looks like a horseshoe magnet.   It is also
> said that perforated dissimilar metal plates are used in the large
> "leyden jars".
> 
> The people from Methernitha claim that the Testatika extracts energy from
> air.  It is also claimed that it cools the air in the process.   If this
> is true, it would tell me that it is somehow cohering (ordering) thermal
> fluctuation energy.  In other words it is deriving useful high grade
> energy in the form of electricity from the kinetic energy of air
> molecules.   This leads me to a number of speculations.
> 
> As Bill says on his TV shows, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING............
> 
> It is well known that it takes a certain amount of energy to remove an
> electron from the surface of a metal.  This is called the work function.
>  Different metals have different work functions.
> 
> If two uncharged dissimilar metal objects make contact, electrons will
> flow from the metal with the smaller work function to the metal with the
> greater work function.  The potential difference (voltage) between the
> metal objects quickly reaches the difference of contact potentials and
> the current stops as equilibrium is reached.
> 
> One might think that you could build a circuit of dissimilar metals and
> get a continuous current.   But this results in equal and opposite
> junctions.  Thus, you cannot make a continuous current this way, unless
> the junctions are at different temperatures. In which case, you have a
> thermocouple.
> 
> What happens if dissimilar metals are not in contact but rather separated
> and exposed to an ionized gas consisting of an excess of either positive
> or negative ions ?
> 
> Because of the different work functions, I would expect that there would
> be a difference of potential.  Could this be used to make some kind of
> gas-electrolyte battery ?
> 
> The problem that immediately comes to mind when I consider this is the
> reverse junction problem.   The dissimilar metals would still have to
> make contact somewhere in the circuit and therefore would create a
> counter a voltage.   But what if there was a way to alter one of the
> contact potential so they were not equal and opposite.   Could a magnetic
> field alter a contact potential ?
> 
> The inventor of the Testatika has stated that it will not work as well,
> or at all, unless the metals plates in the "laden jars"  (and other
> parts) use perforated metal plate or screens.  This would suggest to me
> that air (or ion) flow is important for it to function.  Also the
> Methernitha people say the humidity has a big effect on the Testatika.
> Part of the Testatika machine is a Wimhurst generator.  Like other
> electrostatic machines, Wimhurst generators are effected by moisture in
> the air.  Also it is difficult to sustain ionized air in high humidity
> conditions.
> 
> The Wimhurst machine in the Testatika no doubt produces large amounts of
> ionized air.   Perhaps the core of the "leyden jars" is an ion emitter
> and the concentric dissimilar metal screens are for picking up the ions.
>  Maybe the strange magnet metal plate/plastic stack assemblies utilize
> the TMB effect to make it all work ???
> 
> So maybe the Testatika is a kind of battery powered by the kinetic energy
> of ionized air molecules.
> 
> Rex, Please could you tell more details on how your 3 plate LED lighting
> cell is constructed ?
> 
> What happens when you ionize the air near the apparatus ?   Maybe try
> rubbing a balloon on a sweater or a cat.
> 
> Tim
> ( tv@juno.com )
> 
> On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:23:13 -0500 "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org> writes:
> >A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive
> >a
> >green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
> >
> >For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
> >
> >Rex Allen.
> >
> >
> 
> Tim
> ( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 13:13:33 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: Are Testatika and TMB related ?
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 99  21:10:17 +0100
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At 16:07 09.08.99 -0400, nuenergy@cyberportal.net wrote:
>Tim,
>
>If it is any help to you it was confirmed to me that an antenna
>was connect to the Testatika. 
>The movie demonstration also shows
>a bare wire insulated by ceramic insulators running up the side
>of a granite wall. This indicates to me that this device was
>electrostically powered. 

It is true, that you can see inside the movie a wire running around
a grannite wall via an insolatro, but this part of the movie is in no way
related to the Testatika.
They just say in the movie:
"We are using the old dumped collected stuff that 
society no longer needs
and recycle them..."


All the Testatika machines work just with their setup an
dont need any long wires outsides.

This was confirmed to me by a number of visitors...

Also your claims, that it uses Radium Chloride
was just a claim of you with NO proof and
I wonder, how you put these claims onto the
lists and never have a proof of it...

I remember the MRA,
there you also claimed many ways overunity output power
and finaly it only was a measurement error.


>The two revolving discs may be flywheels
>to regulate the output frequency.

No,
these are used to generate the HV via the Wimshurst
effect.

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 13:24:35 1999
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Peter,

I demonstrated this at the International Tesla Symposium last
year. Later, I had a validation program running from my website.
These electrodes were sent out for people to test and validate
my research. Even though non-disclosures were signed this aspect
of my work got swiped from one of the big boys. They are now
getting a patent on what I had publicly demonstrated. Details 
can be seen at...

http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm


Even more recently,

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990706070354.htm


I have been saying this publicly since 1996. What is really dishearting
is that I have received not one phone call even to offer me a job in
one of these labs. No mention of who is the pioneer. The research ends
up with a new name and the PH.D gets the credit. What really drives the
nails deep is when so called peers cheer for these bad guys.

I have always be open with my research. It has been my hope that by
being public with my research that it would not be "suppressed." That
it would not matter that I do not have a formal education.

Too many times I have been bitten by snakes. Eventually the blood
becomes bitter.


      -BAP



>
>3. The star chamber was demonstrated using specially coated electrodes.
>"Star-mode" was demonstated in ordinary air.
>

Is any further information available on this device?

Thanks for your response.

Peter Nielsen

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 13:36:45 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: Are Testatika and TMB related ?
Cc: atglab@atgroup.org
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 99  21:33:53 +0100
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Hi,

I tried also today a rough setup
with 2 plates, one Copper (about 4 mm diameter) and one another
zinced iron plate (just 1 mm diameter) with using ferrite
magnets..
As I tried it just at a friends place, where we did not 
have much more than a simple analog voltmeter,
we could just observe a charge of 2 or 3 mV
on a 1 uF (63Volts) capacitor..

I will now try some different metals and some aluminium mesh
wire I bought today.
I also got Polycarbonat plates, maybe this will
get any effect.

What is the circuit diagram of your successful LED test ?
What material are the 3 plates and how did you stack them ?

Best regards, Stefan.


At 22:10 08.08.99 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote:
>Rex, thank you for sharing this interesting discovery of the TMB. 
>
>It occurred to me when I saw your post that the TMB  might be related to
>principle of the Testatika machine invented by members of the Christian
>community known as Methernitha in Switzerland.
>
>
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 13:39:29 1999
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Stefan Hartmann wrote:
> 
> All the Testatika machines work just with their setup an
> dont need any long wires outsides.


I was told just last week that there is a wire leading up
to the device. This was an eye witness account.


> 
> This was confirmed to me by a number of visitors...
> 
> Also your claims, that it uses Radium Chloride
> was just a claim of you with NO proof and
> I wonder, how you put these claims onto the
> lists and never have a proof of it...


I want to clear this one up right here and now.
It was never my claim that the Testatika used
Radium Chloride. It was a claim by Dr. Camus.
You do not see this claim on my website now
do you? It was a mistake on my part to post his
claims in the first place. I believed him because
he is a doctor of Physics.

If you recall, after I pulled the Camus claim a statement was 
issued by me pointing out that adding radioactive material to 
two capacitor plates would discharge any charge that were to be 
placed on them. Dr. John Moreland at the time was going around 
telling people that he had me place radioactive material between
two capacitor plates and that I got power from this experiment. 
He further stated at an INE lecture that this is how he thought 
the Hendershoot device worked. This idea came from some of my 
notes that he read and was a misinterpretation.


       -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 14:11:35 1999
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To: D Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
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Subject: Orgone Energy Crystals
References: <002a01bee141$3b0d3e00$8e5cadd1@default> <37ACEC48.DA86B4E7@keelynet.com> <37AD18E7.24C3@cyberportal.net> <37AF3E34.E2AA1E8D@telusplanet.net>
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D Adams wrote:
> 
> Bruce, can you elaborate on the 'orgone crystal'?

Enclosed is part of the report that I have. What I have not
posted here is the procedure to obtain these materials from
certain rock scrapings. I will post this at a later date if
this material is well received. I have not yet typed out the
rest of this report. I will finish typing the report if there
is interest.


       -BAP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In The Oranur Experiment and The Blackening Rocks (OEB III. V, 1951,
1953) Wilhelm Reich described his discovery of DOR and Melanor. In this
report, he told how a black, nauseating corrosive "substance" attacked
crystalline rock, resulting in the rocks disintegrating, turning black
and causing severe excitation in the surrounding atmosphere.
    
Mr. Robert A. McCullough, formally with the New Hampshire Fish and Game
Department and the University of New Hampshire, had been assisting Reich
in various tasks of his research since 1952. McCullough sent Reich a
preliminary analysis of Orite, a white substance he had found on brick
walls at the University of New Hampshire. It followed from this chemical
analysis, that in 1953 first steps towards a more complex chemistry were
pursued. Results were most promising, and Mr. McCullough demonstrated an
instinctive understanding for the basic nature of this new chemistry by
sending that first rough analysis. Therefore in June 1953, arrangements
were made for Mr. McCullough to go to Orgonon in Rangely, Maine on a
grant basis to conduct the necessary chemical analysis of Melanor,
Brownite and Orite.
    
When McCullough first arrived at Reichs Laboratory he found that many
of the rocks composing the Observatory walls were black. Others were
various shades of brown and reddish-brown; while still others were
white. Many rock surfaces were deeply pock-marked--even to the extent
that large holes in rock surfaces were observed.
    
The texture and hardness of the rocks varied considerably. The black,
with two exceptions, was very hard, thin and confined usually to the
surface. Where it was also in the interior, it was in hard black
crystals. The two exceptions mentioned were found in deep crevices away
from light and air. They were soft powdery black--soot like substances.
    
The brown coloration was invariably softer--sometimes they were as soft
as talc. The brown was found either on the surface, under black, and or
over the white. The brown rocks had areas in them that were the soft
brown material that could be scraped out to a depth of 1 and 2 inches. 
    
The white material was usually under the brown and graded imperceptibly
into it. However, several rocks were white in their entirety. The
texture of the white varied from a talc-like softness to a quartz like
hardness. It is believed that T.H. Moray found this soft talc-like
variety at Abisko Sweden, later called the "Moray stone."
    
All rocks containing silica (SiO2) in the Observatory walls were
affected: granites, quartz, slates, schists, gneisss, quartzites, and
sandstones.
Other disintegration processes were taking place. However, McCulloughs
report confines these to three basic processes: black, brown and white.
These have been isolated by Wilhelm Reich and named by him--Melanor,
(Me) Brownite (Br) and Orite (Or), respectively.
    
Collections of these different substances were made by scraping the
various rocks into labeled vials and storing each kind separately from
the other.
    
Reich advised that the rock scraping should be limited to about one hour
each day and omitted entirely on rainy days or on days of bad DOR
conditions. This DOR condition is present when atmospheric clouds are
blackened. Such limitation was necessary because of the orgone energy
emanating from the Melanor affected rocks. Melanor does not radiate
radiation that affects a Geiger-Muller counter. However, energy radiated
reacted with Organic materials with severe excitation in a manner that
was not then understood. Melanor rocks that were not scraped, held 2-3
cm. away from the palm felt hot and gave a prickling sensation to the
outstretched tongue. Scraped or hammered Melanor rocks, on the other
hand, had these effects increased many times. An intense pressure would
soon build up in the head, especially around the base of the skull after
only a few minutes of scraping the face would become flushed and
burning. Following Reichs advice, relief was found only with fresh air
and frequent wetting down of the face and hands. It was as if the rocks
or the Melanor reacted to the scraping.
    
The Brownite rocks usually did not affect one in this manner, although
the darker ones did to some extent. The Orite rocks did not give a
headache or flushed face; however, Reich advised that a form of
paralysis would result from overexposure to Orite. 
Qualities of Melanor, Brownite and Orite

Color: Melanor is black. Where it is found as a gray, the gray is due to
a mixing of Melanor with the white Orite; were brownish, this is due to
mixing with Brownite. Orite is white and also grades towards gray or
tan. Brownite ranges from a dark brown to a light tan.
    
Hydrogen Ion Concentration: Melanor gives an acid reaction to pH
indicators with the usual range between pH 3 and pH 5. Orite is alkaline
with the usual range between pH 8 and pH 11. The pH of Brownite is
either neutral (7) or within one point of it. Color and pH are quite
closely related.
    
The ash of Melanor is acidic (pH 3.6--3.8) and that of Orite is alkaline
(pH 10). The ash of neutral Brownite, however, is just as acidic as that
of Melanor.
    
Solubility: Melanor is completely soluble is strong mineral acids,
partly soluble in water and completely insoluble in bases. The insoluble
residue resulting from dissolving Melanor in water is black, while the
residue resulting from dissolving the residue from evaporated solution
is white--in part crystalline and in part an amorphous powder. The
non-crystalline powder turns yellow in time, as does the aqueous
solution. When an aqueous solution of Melanor is made basic, the Melanor
immediately precipitates out as a blue-green flaky precipitate. Within
the course of several hours this blue-green precipitate turns bright
orange-red. It dissolves again upon reacidification.
    
Orite has a variable solubility depending on the source from where it
was obtained. The more soluble samples are partially soluble in acids
and completely soluble in water and bases. The less soluble samples are
only slightly soluble in any solvent. The soluble aqueous solutions are
colorless and the basic ones are light yellow in color.
    
Brownite is only partially soluble in acidic, aqueous and basic
solvents. In all cases it gives a yellow solution. The acid solution
appears to be identical with an acid solution of Melanor--resulting in
the same color-changing precipitate with the addition of a base.
    
Autoclaved solutions of Orite and Brownite will in the course of several
months develop growths of green Life-forms. It has been impossible to do
this with any Melanor solution.
    
Oxidation--Reduction: Melanor is a very strong reducing agent. It has a
strong "hunger" for oxygen (Reich). In view of the apparent antithesis
of Melanor and Orite, it was expected that Orite would prove to be an
oxidizing agent. Such was not the case. It has shown no oxidizing
action. However, oxidizing anions have been found in Orite. Brownite has
shown neither reducing nor oxidizing action.
    
Fluorescence: Melanor is non-fluorescent either in its natural state or
in aqueous solutions. In addition, when filter paper is soaked with a
Melanor solution and dried, the natural-white fluorescence of the paper
is inhibited. Orite fluoresces bluish-white as a dry powder and yellow
in aqueous solutions. Brownite fluoresces yellow in aqueous solutions,
but shows no fluorescence as a dry powder.
    
Summation: The chemical investigations have borne out this: Melanor is
acidic; Orite basic; and Brownite neutral. Melanor is black; Orite
white; and Brownite brown. Melanor is soluble in acids; Orite in water
and bases; and Brownite partially in all. Melanor is non-fluorescent;
Orite is fluorescent; and Brownite partially fluorescent. Melanor is a
reducing agent and dehydrating agent; Orite and Brownite are not.
Melanor has predominately acidic cations and anions; Orite has basic
cations and anions; and Brownite has a mixture of both.

ORENE (Oe) is the designation Wilhelm Reich gave to a substance
discovered by him in 1953 in the course of the Oranur Experiment, which
appears to speed up the decay process of radioactive materials. Reichs
laboratory techniques describe certain means for collecting Orene from
the atmosphere and or extracting it from Melanor material. They are not
complete but offer enough data to produce Orene. Reich says that the
white Orene material should never be allowed to dry out, since in its
dry form, this material appears to be noxious. Flushing the dry form
into a sink with copious water appears to safely remove the noxious
effects. Melanor screenings are kept in Mason jars until used. These
jars should be stored away from any used buildings as they would
contaminate it. Reich warns never attempt to heat this material to dry
it. Severe excitation results from any applied heat over 100 F.
CAUTION: At no time should heat in any form be applied to the ORENE.
Standard basic yellow ORENE is not stable and must be refrigerated in an
open container.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 14:15:26 1999
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* note... this was added by me to the text. It was not in the original
report.

It is believed that T.H. Moray found this soft talc-like variety at
Abisko Sweden, later called the "Moray stone."


       -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 14:34:04 1999
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Hi Rex,
This is really amazing. The design of the plates looks a bit like an orgon
accumulator
with its different layers, except the different materials and the magnets
oc course.
What other different material have you tried yet ?
What might happen to an orgon accumulator sandwich being exposed to a
magnetic field this way ?

What I didn't quite understand from your website yet: in which way does
the MFCV differ from the TMB ? What kind of material and where is the third
plate
in the picture with the LED? Between the two cardboard layers?

greetings
Tameer

atglab schrieb:

>
> A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive a
> green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>
> For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>
> Rex Allen.

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Hi Rex,
This is really amazing. The design of the plates looks a bit like an orgon
accumulator
with its different layers, except the different materials and the magnets
of course.
What other different material have you tried yet ?
What might happen to an orgon accumulator sandwich being exposed to a
magnetic field this way ?

What I didn't quite understand from your website yet: in which way does
the MFCV differ from the TMB ? What kind of material and where is the third
plate
in the picture with the LED? Between the two cardboard layers?

greetings
Tameer

atglab schrieb:

>
> A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive a
> green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>
> For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>
> Rex Allen.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 15:22:07 1999
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> Peter,
> 
> I demonstrated this at the International Tesla Symposium last
> year. 


The inertial-confinement fusion vacuum-tube was invented forty years ago
by Philo Farnsworth:

  BSRF: The Farnsworth Fusor
  http://www.songs.com/philo/fusion/vassilatos.html

If you avoid mentioning Farnsworth's work, and if you speak as if nobody
else is exploring this topic, then your messages are somewhat dishonest. 
I realize that it's acceptable among inventors to hide the origins of new
devices from the customer (it's better for business if everyone thinks
that the product is NOT merely an improved version of somebody elses
discovery.)  However, it's different in science.  In a science-forum we
have much higher standards; we give attributions to the original sources
of our work, and we maintain standards of honesty which are far, far
higher than those in business or advertizing.  This attitude is very bad
for business, but then scientists are supposedly getting funding from
somewhere, and don't need to use marketing techniques to sell products or 
attract investors.


  Also see the Farnsworth biography and Fusor page:
  http://www.songs.com/philo/fusion/index.html


  Bert Pool's Farnsworth patents
  http://www.ticnet.com/bertpool/philo/philo.htm





> Later, I had a validation program running from my website.
> These electrodes were sent out for people to test and validate
> my research.

These electrodes, were they vastly different than the ones in Farnsworth's
devices, or the ones shown in Richard Hull's videos?  If not, then I
cannot see how anyone has stolen anything.   You may have had a head start
in working with Farnsworth's discoveries, but a well-funded lab could
easily race ahead independantly.  They just have to take the Fusor
seriously.


> Even though non-disclosures were signed this aspect
> of my work got swiped from one of the big boys. They are now
> getting a patent on what I had publicly demonstrated. Details 
> can be seen at...
> 
> http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm


Yes, these companies are ripping off Farnsworth (or perhaps his original
patents have expired).

What part of your own work are they stealing?  If you and they both have
based your work on Farnsworth's invention, then obviously your devices
will be very similar.


> Even more recently,
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990706070354.htm
> 
> 
> I have been saying this publicly since 1996. What is really dishearting
> is that I have received not one phone call even to offer me a job in
> one of these labs. No mention of who is the pioneer.

Yeah, in some ways professional science sucks.  Scientists distrust
outsiders. They will have little to do with inventors, and they will tend
to only give credit to other professional scientists.  If you want to do
modern science, you need to give up on being an inventor, and go work your
way up through some University department.  There aren't many other ways
to do it, other than having science as a self-funded hobby.  Inventors are
businessmen, and necessarily must violate many parts of "Scientific
Integrity", hence inventors and scientists tend to behave as natural
enemies. 


> The research ends
> up with a new name and the PH.D gets the credit. What really drives the
> nails deep is when so called peers cheer for these bad guys.


I suspect that the main reason for scientists' sudden acceptance of the
Farnsworth Fusor is that Richard Hull has been widely publicizing
Farnsworth's work, and has worked with the openminded physicist Dr. Robert
Forward in building neutron generators.  Once they see that a real
scientist is working with a "taboo" device like the Fusor, then the
"taboo" evaporates, and all the rest of the scientists want a piece of the
action. 




((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; <atgroup@atgroup.org>
Cc: <atglab@atgroup.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Are Testatika and TMB related ?


> Hi,
>
> I tried also today a rough setup
> with 2 plates, one Copper (about 4 mm diameter) and one another
> zinced iron plate (just 1 mm diameter) with using ferrite
> magnets..

The Sn plate we use is different from other compositions such as the
compound used in food cans. What this means is that it will work to varying
degrees. It is not important at this point that actual metallurgical makeup
be set as a standard for similar duplication.


> As I tried it just at a friends place, where we did not
> have much more than a simple analog voltmeter,
> we could just observe a charge of 2 or 3 mV
> on a 1 uF (63Volts) capacitor..
>

Well this may not be so off base, first insure that your capacitor is NOT
and electrolytic, Mylar is fine. Electrolytics will not work (this will be
at some point explained on our web site).

Now for your meter, the input impedance should be a minimum of 10Meg Ohms,
anything lower will decrease the charge accordingly. Remember that the basic
first generation TMB's have a source impedance of around 12Meg ohms.

> I will now try some different metals and some aluminium mesh
> wire I bought today.
> I also got Polycarbonat plates, maybe this will
> get any effect.
>

If you wish to duplicae the TMB's a couple of points that govern the result;

1)The spacers used (the 2mm cardboard) are not of the corrugated type, this
is the solid type as found on the back of many pads of writing paper.

2)The plastic film used is relatively unimportant (if very thin). The film
is used to insure against galvanic action from moisture in the cardboard and
to insure the magnets do not touch the metal plates.

3)Once you get over 10-15mv you can begin to repetitively discharge the cap
and see the recharge action.

4)In the TMB design heat does play a roll. Take your unit and heat it to
40-45'C and see if your voltage climbs. Be sure you do not heat your
capacitor when doing this.

> What is the circuit diagram of your successful LED test ?
> What material are the 3 plates and how did you stack them ?
>
>
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 15:42:31 1999
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:48:45 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Re: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor
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Bill,

I am not claiming to have invented "inertial confinement."
It was when I viewed Richard Hull's video on Farnsworth's
Fusion tube when it hit me that the same "star-mode" effect was
produced between our specially coated electrodes. The big difference
is that these electrodes are doing it in air. There is no 
"bugle effect" with these electrodes. These electrodes achieve perfect
"ion recombination" without the Farnsworth grids. This is a real
breakthrough. What I am claiming is a new way of achieving inertial
confinement. I am sorry for not telling the whole story. I've got alot
on my mind and often assume that the reader can read my mind. This is
where I get into trouble. I give full details at my lectures. The
segment
in Richard Hull's video is played to show the star-mode effect in the
fuser, revealing what "perfect ion recombination" is. I gave Richard
Hull
full credit when this video is presented.


     -Bruce A. Perreault



William Beaty wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> 
> > Peter,
> >
> > I demonstrated this at the International Tesla Symposium last
> > year.
> 
> The inertial-confinement fusion vacuum-tube was invented forty years ago
> by Philo Farnsworth:
> 
>   BSRF: The Farnsworth Fusor
>   http://www.songs.com/philo/fusion/vassilatos.html
> 
> If you avoid mentioning Farnsworth's work, and if you speak as if nobody
> else is exploring this topic, then your messages are somewhat dishonest.
> I realize that it's acceptable among inventors to hide the origins of new
> devices from the customer (it's better for business if everyone thinks
> that the product is NOT merely an improved version of somebody elses
> discovery.)  However, it's different in science.  In a science-forum we
> have much higher standards; we give attributions to the original sources
> of our work, and we maintain standards of honesty which are far, far
> higher than those in business or advertizing.  This attitude is very bad
> for business, but then scientists are supposedly getting funding from
> somewhere, and don't need to use marketing techniques to sell products or
> attract investors.
> 
>   Also see the Farnsworth biography and Fusor page:
>   http://www.songs.com/philo/fusion/index.html
> 
>   Bert Pool's Farnsworth patents
>   http://www.ticnet.com/bertpool/philo/philo.htm
> 
> > Later, I had a validation program running from my website.
> > These electrodes were sent out for people to test and validate
> > my research.
> 
> These electrodes, were they vastly different than the ones in Farnsworth's
> devices, or the ones shown in Richard Hull's videos?  If not, then I
> cannot see how anyone has stolen anything. You may have had a head start
> in working with Farnsworth's discoveries, but a well-funded lab could
> easily race ahead independantly.  They just have to take the Fusor
> seriously.
> 
> > Even though non-disclosures were signed this aspect
> > of my work got swiped from one of the big boys. They are now
> > getting a patent on what I had publicly demonstrated. Details
> > can be seen at...
> >
> > http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm
> 
> Yes, these companies are ripping off Farnsworth (or perhaps his original
> patents have expired).
> 
> What part of your own work are they stealing?  If you and they both have
> based your work on Farnsworth's invention, then obviously your devices
> will be very similar.
> 
> > Even more recently,
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990706070354.htm
> >
> >
> > I have been saying this publicly since 1996. What is really dishearting
> > is that I have received not one phone call even to offer me a job in
> > one of these labs. No mention of who is the pioneer.
> 
> Yeah, in some ways professional science sucks.  Scientists distrust
> outsiders. They will have little to do with inventors, and they will tend
> to only give credit to other professional scientists.  If you want to do
> modern science, you need to give up on being an inventor, and go work your
> way up through some University department.  There aren't many other ways
> to do it, other than having science as a self-funded hobby.  Inventors are
> businessmen, and necessarily must violate many parts of "Scientific
> Integrity", hence inventors and scientists tend to behave as natural
> enemies.
> 
> > The research ends
> > up with a new name and the PH.D gets the credit. What really drives the
> > nails deep is when so called peers cheer for these bad guys.
> 
> I suspect that the main reason for scientists' sudden acceptance of the
> Farnsworth Fusor is that Richard Hull has been widely publicizing
> Farnsworth's work, and has worked with the openminded physicist Dr. Robert
> Forward in building neutron generators.  Once they see that a real
> scientist is working with a "taboo" device like the Fusor, then the
> "taboo" evaporates, and all the rest of the scientists want a piece of the
> action.
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 16:07:43 1999
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Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:08:28 -0500
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From: Tameer Hohnsbein <THohnsbein@csi.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current


> Hi Rex,
> This is really amazing. The design of the plates looks a bit like an orgon
> accumulator

Totally unknown to any of us is orgon as discussed on the various lists.

> with its different layers, except the different materials and the magnets
> of course.
> What other different material have you tried yet ?

We will place on the web site information as we can put it in a form usable.
When we rush we goof and present data and statements which are general and
offhand. We would prefer to describe both the TMB and MFVC on the site.

> What might happen to an orgon accumulator sandwich being exposed to a
> magnetic field this way ?
>

We have no idea.

> What I didn't quite understand from your website yet: in which way does
> the MFCV differ from the TMB ?

The TMB is a precursor to MFVC, although has many attribute which are very
different from MFVC. TMB's are temperature sensitive, MFVC's are not (within
< 50'C, low temps not yet checked).

Another distincsion is a voltage can be measured across a TMB when just the
1uf capacitor and a DVM is connected. A potential can not be measured across
a MFVC until you start loading it will resistance below 47k ohms.

>What kind of material and where is the third
> plate
> in the picture with the LED? Between the two cardboard layers?
>

In the MFVC picture at the top of its respective site, the third plate in on
the extreme right magnet.

A quick note, separation of all elements is crucial to the operation. To
much spacing or two little has a great effect. Likewise the cells should be
clamped together with plastic clamps to try and obtain a uniform compression
of the plates against their respective surfaces.

> greetings
> Tameer
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 18:13:15 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:18:48 -0400
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Hi Bill,

I've been jumping around in my reading, came across this, and had an
idea/question.  One of the things that I've been keeping my eyes open for in
my reading is for an inexpensive, easy-to-build, readily available
materialwise way to built even a low performance solar cell.  I really
haven't had the time to even do any looking, but when I saw this post, it
made me wonder if any fluid approaches had been tried.  For example, if you
took a plate of glass or clear plastic, and sandwiched two fluids of
differing density and work function between another plate of glass, and kept
it parallel with the ground would that work?  The differences in density
would keep the heavy fluid at the bottom and the lighter fluid at the top,
and the electron transfers would take place at the interface.  If you need a
drawing, let me know, and I'll make one.  If it worked, it would be super
easy to build.

Knuke


Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 18:21:54 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:36:57 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>The inertial-confinement fusion vacuum-tube was invented forty years ago
>by Philo Farnsworth:
>
>  BSRF: The Farnsworth Fusor
>  http://www.songs.com/philo/fusion/vassilatos.html
>
>If you avoid mentioning Farnsworth's work, and if you speak as if nobody
>else is exploring this topic

>These electrodes, were they vastly different than the ones in Farnsworth's
>devices, or the ones shown in Richard Hull's videos?

FYI:

To: bpaddock@csonline.net
Subject: Re: Latest Fusor stuff (fwd)

Bob Paddock wrote:

> >The URL below is Stephen Coley's homepage on fusion.  I sent him the
> >never before, "webbed", Hirsch-Meeks fusor patent and some photos of my
> >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/1017/
>
> Is this going to be to 'official' Fusor page for now, or do
> you have a URL of your own?

***********************

I have no web page URL for my work.

Stephen Coley's page will have a lot of my stuff on it in future.  His page
points to a lot of other fusion related sites where some of my work is to be
found, also.

Richard Hull



-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 18:44:38 1999
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Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote:

> Hi Bill,
> 
> I've been jumping around in my reading, came across this, and had an
> idea/question.  One of the things that I've been keeping my eyes open for in
> my reading is for an inexpensive, easy-to-build, readily available
> materialwise way to built even a low performance solar cell.

Years ago I saw plans for just such a solar cell.  It used a copper sheet
which had been chemically corroded and was covered with black oxide. The
black oxide was carefully cleaned off, leaving a red oxide underneath
which formed the active surface.  That's as far as I remember.  The plate
was immersed in some sort of electrolyte, there was another metal plate as
well (different? similar?) and light was aimed at the copper, forming an
electrochemical solar cell.  The output energy was very low:  great for a
demo, but not so great for running major appliances. 

I vaguely recall seeing "solar cell plans" for sale on the internet.  I
bet they describe this same science project.

Hey, why not do a web search?  Doh!

   CAM6 - HOW TO BUILD A SOLAR CELL THAT REALLY WORKS -W Noon Walt Noon
   shows you how to quickly and inexpensively build a copper oxide
   photocell. The efficiency is not as high as modern silicon cells but
   then neither is the cost. You can crank out cells for pennies. Connect
   many cells in parallel and series and you can generate surprising
   amounts of power. The process requires only simple tools. The
   chemicals, like all chemicals, can be dangerous if mishandled but the
   worst is probably nitric acid which is used to clean the copper. This
   book will show you how to make a working cell, test it and gives you
   interesting projects to work on. 51/2 x 81/2 22 page booklet #4.30 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 19:32:10 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:38:09 -0400
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>Hey, why not do a web search?  Doh!
>
>   CAM6 - HOW TO BUILD A SOLAR CELL THAT REALLY WORKS -W Noon Walt Noon
>   shows you how to quickly and inexpensively build a copper oxide
>   photocell. The efficiency is not as high as modern silicon cells but
>   then neither is the cost. You can crank out cells for pennies. Connect
>   many cells in parallel and series and you can generate surprising
>   amounts of power. The process requires only simple tools. The
>   chemicals, like all chemicals, can be dangerous if mishandled but the
>   worst is probably nitric acid which is used to clean the copper. This
>   book will show you how to make a working cell, test it and gives you
>   interesting projects to work on. 51/2 x 81/2 22 page booklet #4.30 

Hey what an idea! (the websearch) :)  Thanks, I knew if anybody had seen
whether or not this had been tried, you would be the one to ask.

Also, what would be the difference in definition between work function and
ionization potential?

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 20:18:49 1999
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Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote:

> Also, what would be the difference in definition between work function and
> ionization potential?

I think they might be the same thing, although Work Function applies to
solid objects, while I think Ionization Potential applies to single atoms?
It takes a different frequency (energy) of UV light to knock electrons off
a zinc atom, than to knock them off a zinc plate. 



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 20:51:31 1999
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Subject: Re: WORK FUNCTION
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>On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote:
> Also, what would be the difference in definition between work function and
>> ionization potential?


At 08:18 PM 8/9/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote:
>I think they might be the same thing, although Work Function applies to
>solid objects, while I think Ionization Potential applies to single atoms?
>It takes a different frequency (energy) of UV light to knock electrons off
>a zinc atom, than to knock them off a zinc plate. 


  Not the same thing.

  Ionization Potential
  IP is the energy per unit charge to remove an electron from an
atom to infinity (in the gendanken sense)  ;-)X
  The work done [in electron volts] equals the ionization potential
when the ionization potential is expressed in volts.


   The work function (EW) is the energy to transport electrons, or ions, 
between two volumes, from medium 1 to medium 2.
  e.g thermionic work function, = energy to eject electron from
medium 1 - metal ---> to medium 2 volume around metal

  It is, of course,  EW = EB  - EF 
  EB is the total work of free e- from binding forces of metal
  EF = Fermi level)


  Hope that helps.
    Mitchell Swartz



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With regard to the recent announcement by Rex of the ATGroup of the
Thermal Magnetic Battery (TMG) and the Magnetic Flux Virtual Conduit
(MFVC):

http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm

 Please compare this to:

http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/principle

Doesn't anybody else see the similarities ?


What do you think about this Rex ???

Please Rex, if you have not yet caught the "inventors disease" please
give more information so that others may duplicate successfully the LED
driving device known as MFVC.  Try to describe it as if a high school kid
were going to build it.

There are many areas for exploration with this.   For example....

What are the effects of ionized air on the device ?

What happens if the magnetic bias field is modulated ?

What other metals might be used for the plates ?

Do perforated plates work better ?

What if the dielectric is a polarized electret ?

What if the dielectric is piezoelectric or ferroelectric ?

Does the device depend on temperature differences between its parts or
can it operate at a uniform temperature ?

Is the device negentropic, in other words does the device absorb heat
from its environment in apparent violation of the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics ?

Many possibilities exist, but it must firmly be establish that there is a
true anomaly here and not some more conventional explanation.  This can
be done by widespread replication and verification.  Otherwise all we
have is another legend.

Tim
( tv@juno.com )

------------------------------------

If you are not familiar with the fascinating testatika machine, take a
look at these web pages:

http://www.overunity.de/devices.htm

http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/

http://colossus2.cvl.bcm.tmc.edu/~wje/free_energy/testatika.html

There seem to be two rumors floating around about the Testatika machine
and its possible power source.  

One theory is that it is somehow powered by radium chloride like the
Hubbard coil a special transformer containing radium invented by Alfred
Hubbard a young man from Seattle Washington who worked for a company that
refined radium.  The Hubbard coil produced enough power to run a motor
boat.  It was seen by numerous witnesses and reported extensively in the
Seattle newspapers.  It has recently been replicated and patented by
Physicist Paul Brown.  He demonstrated it publicly as well.  As I
understand it, the working principle is still not fully understood as it
seems to extract more power from the radium than should be available. 
Paul calls the Hubbard coil, a resonant nuclear battery.   Interestingly,
Paul has done much recent work on another radioisotope power source
called the contact potential cell which uses the current generated by
dissimilar metals or semiconductors exposed to alpha or beta radiation. 
Last I heard, He is developing tiny cells that could power microchips. 
This would be useful for tiny miniaturized devices like microtransponders
that could operate for decades without an outside power source such as a
battery or solar cell.   Incidently, this would be ideal for injectable
microchip transponder tags.  The dark side of this is it would be ideal
for a "mark of the beast" electronic money system described in the book
of Revelation.

One researcher I talked to in Southern California claimed that he
smuggled a miniature Russian made geiger counter into one of the
demonstrations of the Testatika put on by Methernitha in late 1980's.  
He claimed the counter registered considerable radiation from the
Testatika machine.   He kept it hidden from his hosts view.  Switzerland
would certainly be a good place to find some extra radium watch dial
paint sitting around.   

However, another possibility is that his geiger counter was being
"fooled" by the ionized air.  I know the one I have can give false hits
with static electricity.

The inventor Paul Baumann of Methernitha firmly denies that the Testatika
contains any radioactive materials.

The other theory about the Testatika is that it is powered by static
electricity from the atmosphere picked up by some kind of antenna.  There
is a patents for extracting power from atmospheric electricity.   I have
seen pictures of a small motor powered by atmospheric electricity
demonstrated by  professor Jeffeminko (sp ?).  One patent by a German
inventor named Paulson described an elaborate system for tapping
atmospheric power using balloon born antennas.  This patent claimed
considerable power in the multikillowatt range, but the antennas were
very large and tall.  Potentially very dangerous in a lightning storm.
(punn intended)

The antenna theory seems unlikely to me since it was reported that some
of the small testatika machines could be moved while operating.   It
would seem that more people would have noticed the antenna.

Perhaps the "TMB" discovery is the key ?

Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 23:10:51 1999
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Any one know how practical this would be?  Assuming that a normal commercial
solar array to power an average sized home would be approx $20,000.00 USD
how much would it cost to construct a comparable array?  Any ideas?

Michael T Huffman wrote:

> >Hey, why not do a web search?  Doh!
> >
> >   CAM6 - HOW TO BUILD A SOLAR CELL THAT REALLY WORKS -W Noon Walt Noon
> >   shows you how to quickly and inexpensively build a copper oxide
> >   photocell. The efficiency is not as high as modern silicon cells but
> >   then neither is the cost. You can crank out cells for pennies. Connect
> >   many cells in parallel and series and you can generate surprising
> >   amounts of power. The process requires only simple tools. The
> >   chemicals, like all chemicals, can be dangerous if mishandled but the
> >   worst is probably nitric acid which is used to clean the copper. This
> >   book will show you how to make a working cell, test it and gives you
> >   interesting projects to work on. 51/2 x 81/2 22 page booklet #4.30
>
> Hey what an idea! (the websearch) :)  Thanks, I knew if anybody had seen
> whether or not this had been tried, you would be the one to ask.
>
> Also, what would be the difference in definition between work function and
> ionization potential?
>
> Knuke
>
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 23:26:14 1999
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From: "Peter Fred" <pbfred@choice.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Does the  Sun's  luminosity move the Earth or does its mass?  and Big Wednesday
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 02:17:24 -0400
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One thing that happens when the Moon gets in front of the Sun:  A lot of
sunlight is prevented from reaching the Earth.  There seems to be evidence
that weight does change during an eclipse.  See in particular Saxl's paper:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Saxl.htm).

My heat-related gravity theory tells me that the gravitational force, which
is easily observed in the outer portions of the Earth, has the function of
resisting the flow of heat (ie the unit area heat flux).

 An eclipse decreases the amount of heat that Earth reradiates on the
dayside.  Because there is less outward flow of heat during a solar eclipse,
less thermal resistance ie gravitational force is required to resist this
flow of heat.

In my laboratory or living room I make heat flow through a hemisphere in the
steady state and I get a decrease in weight (~3.7 %).  See
http://www4.choice.net/~pbfred/ .

My theory also requires that "things should get heavier in the night."  The
centripetal acceleration of the Earth is only 0.006 m/s^2.  The surface
gravity is 9.80 m/s^2.    So if the surface gravity on the dayside is
observed to be 9.80 m/s^2 and on the night side it is observed to be 9.8006
m/s^2, we would be well on our way in having a new explanation for how this
10^24 kg sphere moves from A to B.

Allais has observed a diurnal variation in g.  See
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Allais.htm.  I had a friend
observe a diurnal variation in g using a Hodowanec type capacitor.  See
http://www.t-link.net/~aquarius/gwrphome/circuits.htm for this type of
capacitor.

Peter Fred


The NASA site about Big Wednesday is:

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm




There is an old wives tale that you should not weigh gold during an eclipse.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug  9 23:53:04 1999
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Subject: The  Sun's  luminosity and my mistake:  An increase in weight rather than a decrease during a solar eclicpe
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 02:44:13 -0400
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The third paragraph has been rewritten.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Peter Fred [mailto:pbfred@choice.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, August 10, 1999 2:17 AM
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Does the  Sun's  luminosity move the Earth or does its mass?  and
Big Wednesday

One thing that happens when the Moon gets in front of the Sun:  A lot of
sunlight is prevented from reaching the Earth.  There seems to be evidence
that weight does change during an eclipse.  See in particular Saxl's paper:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Saxl.htm).

My heat-related gravity theory tells me that the gravitational force, which
is easily observed in the outer portions of the Earth, has the function of
resisting the flow of heat (ie the unit area heat flux).

 A solar eclipse cools the dayside of the Earth so when a test mass is in
the shadow of the Moon, more heat can flow outward towards the sky.  The
increased outward heat flow requires more thermal resistance or
gravitational force and thus the test mass should weigh more.   Saxl did
observe an increase in the pendulum period and thus this is evidence that
the pendulum increased in weight.

In my laboratory or living room I make heat flow through a hemisphere in the
steady state and I get a decrease in weight (~3.7 %).  See
http://www4.choice.net/~pbfred/ .

My theory also requires that "things should get heavier in the night."  The
centripetal acceleration of the Earth is only 0.006 m/s^2.  The surface
gravity is 9.80 m/s^2.    So if the surface gravity on the dayside is
observed to be 9.80 m/s^2 and on the night side it is observed to be 9.8006
m/s^2, we would be well on our way in having a new explanation for how this
10^24 kg sphere moves from A to B.

Allais has observed a diurnal variation in g.  See
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Allais.htm.  I had a friend
observe a diurnal variation in g using a Hodowanec type capacitor.  See
http://www.t-link.net/~aquarius/gwrphome/circuits.htm for this type of
capacitor.

In closing I should remark that I do not think it is a good idea to use a
gravimeter and thermally isolate the test mass.

Peter Fred


The NASA site about Big Wednesday is:

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm




There is an old wives tale that you should not weigh gold during an eclipse.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 00:19:25 1999
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> There are many areas for exploration with this.   For example....
>
> What are the effects of ionized air on the device ?
>
> What happens if the magnetic bias field is modulated ?
>
> What other metals might be used for the plates ?
>
> Do perforated plates work better ?
>
> What if the dielectric is a polarized electret ?
>
> What if the dielectric is piezoelectric or ferroelectric ?
>
> Does the device depend on temperature differences between its parts or
> can it operate at a uniform temperature ?
>
> Is the device negentropic, in other words does the device absorb heat
> from its environment in apparent violation of the 2nd Law of
> Thermodynamics ?
>
> Many possibilities exist, but it must firmly be establish that there is a
> true anomaly here and not some more conventional explanation.  This can
> be done by widespread replication and verification.  Otherwise all we
> have is another legend.
>
> Tim
> ( tv@juno.com )
>
I agree... There are a few of us that would like to help.

--------------B4437786709C857121C33445
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>There are many areas for exploration with this.&nbsp;&nbsp; For example....

What are the effects of ionized air on the device ?

What happens if the magnetic bias field is modulated ?

What other metals might be used for the plates ?

Do perforated plates work better ?

What if the dielectric is a polarized electret ?

What if the dielectric is piezoelectric or ferroelectric ?

Does the device depend on temperature differences between its parts or
can it operate at a uniform temperature ?

Is the device negentropic, in other words does the device absorb heat
from its environment in apparent violation of the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics ?

Many possibilities exist, but it must firmly be establish that there is a
true anomaly here and not some more conventional explanation.&nbsp; This can
be done by widespread replication and verification.&nbsp; Otherwise all we
have is another legend.

Tim
( tv@juno.com )</pre>
</blockquote>

<p>I agree... There are a few of us that would like to help.</html>

--------------B4437786709C857121C33445--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 02:55:31 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 02:55:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> Bill,
> 
> I am not claiming to have invented "inertial confinement."
> It was when I viewed Richard Hull's video on Farnsworth's
> Fusion tube when it hit me that the same "star-mode" effect was
> produced between our specially coated electrodes. The big difference
> is that these electrodes are doing it in air.

I recall that some of Richard Hull's devices used air (N2 O2).  Or do you
mean at one atmosphere, i.e. no vacuum system?  If you are seeing amounts
of neutrons rivalling the Farnsworth Fusor, but without low pressure, that
certainly would be a very different device. 



> Even though non-disclosures were signed this aspect
> of my work got swiped from one of the big boys. They are now
> getting a patent on what I had publicly demonstrated. Details
> can be seen at...
>
> http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm


Such a theft is a very serious matter.  Perhaps something can be done. 
What did they swipe specifically?



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 03:54:03 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:26:31 +0900
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From: GEOFF EGEL <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Re: Testatika Principle Rediscovered  ?
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At 09:49 PM 9/08/99 -0700, you wrote:
>With regard to the recent announcement by Rex of the ATGroup of the
>Thermal Magnetic Battery (TMG) and the Magnetic Flux Virtual Conduit
>(MFVC):
>
>http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>
> Please compare this to:
>
>http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/principle
>

Tried to get the second link but got what seemed to be an Italian version
of tripod
front page.

is this the correct url

Geoff




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
        Solaris searching for natures energy sources.
        Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135

 my postal address as follows

 I am also on the lookout for something new free energy on the alternative
energy scene
can you help me out?  anything you send my end up on this group of webpages
for other to share as well. 

Geoff Egel
  18 Sturt Street
   Loxton 5333
    South Australia
     Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
   Energy 21 website now resides at
http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html

     Bright Sparks website.

      http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

NEW site  where the unzipped contents of encyclopedia of free energy are on
display.
for those that have MACS or non IBM or clone machines.
                       
                        Alternator site  at
                 http://encyclopedia.educator.webjump.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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>> Hi,
>>
>> I tried also today a rough setup
>> with 2 plates, one Copper (about 4 mm diameter) and one another
>> zinced iron plate (just 1 mm diameter) with using ferrite
>> magnets..
>
>The Sn plate we use is different from other compositions such as the
>compound used in food cans. What this means is that it will work to varying
>degrees. It is not important at this point that actual metallurgical makeup
>be set as a standard for similar duplication.
>
Hi,

the problem I have is, that I was at the weekend at my girlfriends
place and there I have no real measurement equipment.
I just went to a hardware store, bought a few fridge permanent magnets,
disassembled them from their plastic skin and also bought various
metal samples, where I did not know the exact metallurigal
makeup of. I just took all different metal samples, I could
get therr at the hardware store and I did not have many choices...
For example, I dont know, if my SN plate really is SN
but not some kind of SN-iron alloy..


>> As I tried it just at a friends place, where we did not
>> have much more than a simple analog voltmeter,
>> we could just observe a charge of 2 or 3 mV
>> on a 1 uF (63Volts) capacitor..
>>
>
>Well this may not be so off base, first insure that your capacitor is NOT
>and electrolytic, Mylar is fine. Electrolytics will not work (this will be
>at some point explained on our web site).
>
>Now for your meter, the input impedance should be a minimum of 10Meg Ohms,
>anything lower will decrease the charge accordingly. Remember that the basic
>first generation TMB's have a source impedance of around 12Meg ohms.

Well anyway, here are my premilarly results with just a
simple DC voltmeter having 20 KOHM/Volt:

In the range I used: 0.15 Volts maximum display the voltmeter seem to have
just a 3 KOhm inner resistance,
so I get simular readings at the 0.5 and 1.5 Volts settings, cause
there the inner resistance of the voltmeter is higher.
So at the 1.5 Volts setting, I get 10 to 20 mVolts maximum reading,
when putting the voltmeter across the charged 1 uF cap.

>
>> I will now try some different metals and some aluminium mesh
>> wire I bought today.
>> I also got Polycarbonat plates, maybe this will
>> get any effect.
>>

I could not get any voltage at all using
2 Aluminium meshes as the plates with polycarbonat plates (about 5 mm thick)
as the insolator.
Also one iron plate and aluminium mesh did not result in any
voltage at the capacitor ( 1 uF Siemens MKH, no electrolyte !)


>
>If you wish to duplicate the TMB's a couple of points that govern the result;
>
>1)The spacers used (the 2mm cardboard) are not of the corrugated type, this
>is the solid type as found on the back of many pads of writing paper.

Well, it seems it works best, if the cardboard is pretty thin.
I used just one page of writing paper as the isolator and this
resulted in about 2 to 3 mVolt at the 0.15 Volts voltmeter
setting, when I used a  3 to 4 mm thick copper plate
versus my Sn? plate (maybe Zn-iron).
It is not a constant voltage, it discharge the 1 uF cap,
when I put the voltmeter across it, but it builds up again
after about 10 to 20 seconds.

I can get a much better reading of the voltage, if I used
an iron clamp as a back flux shortout and thus also clamped
together the 2 plates and the magnets with it.

Thus I had a much faster buildup of the charge and it also
went some higher.
It seems mechanical clamp pressure plays an important role here !


>2)The plastic film used is relatively unimportant (if very thin). The film
>is used to insure against galvanic action from moisture in the cardboard and
>to insure the magnets do not touch the metal plates.

I had in one experiment tried to insolate the Copper plate with a
plastic film, but then there is no charge buildup !

I just use only one piece of writing paper between the Cu and
Sn plate as an isolator, the magnets just sit on the back of the plates
with no isolation and this seems to work best.
As these are Barium ferrite magnets, which have a very high DC resistance,
there is no problem with this.
At the end of the magnets is the iron clamp, that is doing the back flux
shortout and the mechanical pressure clamping.


>
>3)Once you get over 10-15mv you can begin to repetitively discharge the cap
>and see the recharge action.

Yes, I can see that.

>
>4)In the TMB design heat does play a roll. Take your unit and heat it to
>40-45'C and see if your voltage climbs. Be sure you do not heat your
>capacitor when doing this.

I will do that, when I look at it tonight with my scope at home
at it, so I will be able to see a lot more...
and with a higher DC scope resistance. 
I have a 100 MOhm  scope head.

>
>> What is the circuit diagram of your successful LED test ?
>> What material are the 3 plates and how did you stack them ?

Dont you want to publish this yet ?
Will you at least soon sell a kit for it ?
I tried some different setups with 3 plates and
mixed metal plates, but did not suceed in getting anything else
as described above. I could never get any arcing when I 
shorted my cap, I also tried a 100 uF electrolyte cap,
but it just only charged up like the 1 uF cap,
somekind slower although...

It is really frustrating to know you can light an
LED and my experiments just only seeing minimal
cap charges...

Regards, Stefan.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 04:22:15 1999
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From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: An interesting coil experiment...
Cc: atgroup@atgroup.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99  12:18:18 +0100
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Hi,

this weekend I also tried another experiment,
when I wanted to replicate some kind of
the MED battery experiment from Volker Hennig.

I had a prebuild coil I got from a friend, 
which inductance parameters I did not yet measure,
but it is a pretty big coil with 1 mm diameter
Cu wire with about 1500 to 2000 windings
on a 3 cm diameter plastic tube.
The DC resistance is about 9 Ohm.

Now I did put some insolated iron fence wire
into the tube coil hole. It was 25 Meters of iron fence
wire with 2 mm diameter.
This now acts as an iron core and I soldered both ends
of the iron wire together.

Now I took a 15000 uF electrolyte capacitor
and charged it up to 20 Volts DC.
I just wanted to magnetize the iron fence wire
as a VACE element.

But this did not work out with this coil 
and this low DC voltage. When I had the iron fence wire
at the ends not soldered yet together, I could see,
that their permanent magnetism was rather weak...
So I tried 40 Volts with  2 x 15000 uF charged in series
( I only had a 20 volts DC power supply)
but this also did not result in a better remanenz magnetism
of the fence wire...

BUT: one interesting phenomen was seen:

When I discharged the cap via the Cu coil with the iron fence wire core
and I made the contact with my hand very sliding, so
the contact was very short I observed, that there was a big spark
at the contact and the voltage of the capacitor just did NOT
drop much, sometimes only maybe 0.5 Volts sometimes even less !

It only depended, how I did the sliding contact and how the
spark apeared !
When I made a contact without sliding the contacts and without
any spark appearing, then the
cap voltage just discharged in about 3 seconds very fast !

But when I produced the spark with a sliding contact,
the voltage at the cap seemed not to discharge much or even at all, 
even when this huge spark apeared at the contacts which also needs
a lot of loss power !

So it seems this is a confirmation of my previous
thoughts, that the ZAEV effects,
see:
http://www.overunity.com/zaev
is indeed more related to the mechanical commutator
spark gap effects, than to a heat to electricity
converter effect.
This supports the claims of Correa and Chernetski,
that arc discharges introduce overunity power
into electrical circuits.

Best regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 05:52:12 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:55:58 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor (RUDE AWAKENING)
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990810024240.16256E-100000@eskimo.com>
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> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I am not claiming to have invented "inertial confinement."
> > It was when I viewed Richard Hull's video on Farnsworth's
> > Fusion tube when it hit me that the same "star-mode" effect was
> > produced between our specially coated electrodes. The big difference
> > is that these electrodes are doing it in air.
> 
> I recall that some of Richard Hull's devices used air (N2 O2). Or do you
> mean at one atmosphere, i.e. no vacuum system? If you are seeing amounts
> of neutrons rivalling the Farnsworth Fusor, but without low pressure, that
> certainly would be a very different device.


The electrodes have to be immersed in deuterium gas, a mixture of
deuterium
and tritium, or helium-3 and deuterium. Neutrons can be created at a
flip of
a switch. I have named this arrangemnet the "Star-Chamber." Clean, safe, 
nuclear reactors could be designed using this discovery.

What makes these electrodes different is that there is no electron
leakage
as there is when the Farnsworth grids are used.

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/perwkshp.htm

This was last years workshop. It is still on my server to serve as a
record.


>
> I suspect that the main reason for scientists' sudden acceptance of the
> Farnsworth Fusor is that Richard Hull has been widely publicizing
> Farnsworth's work, and has worked with the openminded physicist Dr. Robert
> Forward in building neutron generators. Once they see that a real
> scientist is working with a "taboo" device like the Fusor, then the
> "taboo" evaporates, and all the rest of the scientists want a piece of the
> action. 


This is the gratitude that I get for contributing to this list.
Has anyone even considered that I have something new here?


> 
> > Even though non-disclosures were signed this aspect
> > of my work got swiped from one of the big boys. They are now
> > getting a patent on what I had publicly demonstrated. Details
> > can be seen at...
> >
> > http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm
> 
> Such a theft is a very serious matter. Perhaps something can be done.
> What did they swipe specifically?


The electrode design to create "star-mode" for neutron generating.
I could be wrong... maybe they have perfected the grid sysyem, but
I very much doubt this. We will see when the patent issues.


>
> Yeah, in some ways professional science sucks. Scientists distrust
> outsiders. They will have little to do with inventors, and they 
> will tend to only give credit to other professional scientists. If 
> you want to do modern science, you need to give up on being an inventor, 
> and go work your way up through some University department. There aren't 
> many other ways to do it, other than having science as a self-funded 
> hobby. Inventors are businessmen, and necessarily must violate many parts 
> of "Scientific Integrity", hence inventors and scientists tend to behave 
> as natural enemies. 


I am both a scientist and inventor. I am stuck between two worlds.
No, I do not "want to do modern science," it is on a clear path to
nowhere. 


>
> I realize that it's acceptable among inventors to hide the origins of 
> new devices from the customer (it's better for business if everyone 
> thinks that the product is NOT merely an improved version of somebody 
> elses discovery.) However, it's different in science. In a science-forum 
> we have much higher standards; we give attributions to the original 
> sources of our work, and we maintain standards of honesty which are far, 
> far higher than those in business or advertizing. This attitude is very 
> bad for business, but then scientists are supposedly getting funding from
> somewhere, and don't need to use marketing techniques to sell products or 
> attract investors.


You have given me a RUDE AWAKENING. This is a "science-forum?" In my
eyes it
is a blood-letting forum. "Higher standard?" Who's standard might that
be?

If it takes me selling products to fund my work then so be it. I am not 
going to feel guilty about this. You see, Jerry is correct about one
point
that he made, I can not make it any longer in the type of world that 
society has created. In my mind it is mindless, without ethics,
suppressive, 
going in circles, you get the point. It is time that I take off my rose 
colored glasses given to me as a child. The world is not the pretty
picture 
that was painted for me. 

I am tired of being "poked and prodded" as Reich would say.
It seems like most members on this list are quite content
with rehashing what already exists. This is fine, but it is
not my piece of cake. I am an origional thinker and I march to
a different drummer. Jerry is correct about one other point, I can 
not make it in your "real world," to your standards I am quite insane, 
crazy, eccentric, whatever you want to call me, call me what you will.


If anyone cares to visit my world sometime I can be reached at 

             
        mailto:nuenergy@cyberportal.net


I will cling onto this list for a few days until the responses 
to my posts stop. I can now appreciate why Tesla made announcements
only once per year. This sounds like a good plan to me... see you
at my next Exotic Research Conference...


          Best Wishes, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 05:53:18 1999
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>I recall that some of Richard Hull's devices used air (N2 O2).  Or do you
>mean at one atmosphere, i.e. no vacuum system?  If you are seeing amounts
>of neutrons rivalling the Farnsworth Fusor, but without low pressure, that
>certainly would be a very different device.


I first read about the Fusor in ANALOG magazine and was intrigued by the
whole idea.

Beginner question: why do they need a vacuum? At first glance it would seem
that the denser your deuterium ions are, the more neutrons you'll produce.

Is the vacuum required so that you can keep your atoms charged, or so that
the field grids will be imparting their energy into a minimum number of
particles to increase individual particle inertia, or both?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 06:00:45 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: SOLAR PRACTICAL? Re: WORK FUNCTION
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:02:20 -0400
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Thanks Bill and Mitch for the work function/ionization potential info.

>Any one know how practical this would be?  Assuming that a normal commercial
>solar array to power an average sized home would be approx $20,000.00 USD
>how much would it cost to construct a comparable array?  Any ideas?

It would depend on what you used for materials, how much time it took you to
build them, and how well they turned out.  I am thinking along the lines of
using junk, like copper wire from thrown away appliances, inverted baby food
jars for containers, maybe something common like vinegar and salt mixed with
water for the electrolyte, and a dab of 502 epoxy to plug any holes in the
jar caps where the wires come out.  This would cost next to nothing to try,
get some meter readings from it, and then run the numbers to scale it up.  

Some of the cost of commercial units is in the inverter, which wouldn't be
cheap.  I've priced them at West Marine, and I forget what they are now, but
off the top of my head, I think the one I was looking at was over a grand.
If you want or even have enough electricity left over during peak generation
hours to feed back into the grid, the circuitry for that is also a
considerable expense.  Another part the cost of commercial units is labor.

If you had a steady load DC application that could be run separate from the
main house current then it might be practical.  When I worked in Alaska, we
had a fuel barge that had to have running lights and an anchor light that
had to be operative all the time.  Rather than have a genset on the barge
running all the time, we used a big marine battery that we just charged up
for each light with a photoelectric switch that would turn the lights on at
night.  One good charge would last about six weeks.  You could do something
similar for driveway or patio lighting on a house using DC lamps, for
example. After the initial construction, it would not cost you anything to
operate, and you could skip the expense of an inverter.  You can probably
think of some other stand-alone applications that would reduce your energy
draw from the grid.

Down here in Florida, especially in these little communities like The
Villages, a lot of people get around in golf carts.  They do their shopping,
banking, get mail, and visit friends, etc..  They have special roads, lanes,
and bridges for them, so they are not just for golf.  They don't use them
all day generally, but when they do use them, they draw a lot of energy from
the battery banks.  A cheap solar cell array charger would be great for
something like that, and it wouldn't need any inverter, either.

The advantage of doing something like this as a hobby or as time permits, is
that you can just add to the array as parts and time become available.  If a
cell like that did produce any usable power, I suppose you could work your
way off of the grid a little at a time, until eventually you became totally
independant, although it might take an acre of the things if they are not
very powerful:)

Knuke


Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 06:02:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:08:30 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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tv@juno.com wrote:
> 
> One theory is that it is somehow powered by radium chloride like the
> Hubbard coil a special transformer containing radium invented by Alfred
> Hubbard a young man from Seattle Washington who worked for a company that
> refined radium.  The Hubbard coil produced enough power to run a motor
> boat.  It was seen by numerous witnesses and reported extensively in the
> Seattle newspapers.  It has recently been replicated and patented by
> Physicist Paul Brown.  He demonstrated it publicly as well. As I
> understand it, the working principle is still not fully understood as it
> seems to extract more power from the radium than should be available.
> Paul calls the Hubbard coil, a resonant nuclear battery. Interestingly,
> Paul has done much recent work on another radioisotope power source
> called the contact potential cell which uses the current generated by
> dissimilar metals or semiconductors exposed to alpha or beta radiation.
> Last I heard, He is developing tiny cells that could power microchips.
> This would be useful for tiny miniaturized devices like microtransponders
> that could operate for decades without an outside power source such as a
> battery or solar cell.   Incidently, this would be ideal for injectable
> microchip transponder tags.  The dark side of this is it would be ideal
> for a "mark of the beast" electronic money system described in the book
> of Revelation.

Dr. Paul Brown is now using the radiant energy cell concept as outlined
in 
my above patent draft for his atomic batteries. 

see...

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/coldfiss.txt

The basic chemistry was posted on 12/15/95 in this file. The only
difference 
is that Dr. Brown is using SiT in his cells. He utilizes a fairly
complex 
process to get the same end result. You do not have to use SiT in the
radiant 
energy cell. There are more economical ways to achieve the same end
result.

             -Bruce A.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 07:14:08 1999
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We had a meeting last night to discuss interest an how we will answer
questions, first here is our excuse.

Our research is paid for by a consulting business, the research has to date
made 0$ and may never, therefore when available we service our clients
first. 'This is a fact of life'

Now we have an added problem that one of our members is sick and unable to
contribute at this time, making the business, the research and web
maintenance very difficult.

We talked of three options; (1) remove the TMB and MFVC from the site until
we can place additional (information) on them, (2) Leave as is and continue
to try to add what we can when we can, (3)Leave as is and continue to answer
questions on a one-off basis. None of these options make sense for oblivious
reasons. Additionally we do not want to publish claims we can not back up
albeit over time it seems.

So for the present I will try to answer a couple of emails with questions
(all in one) rather than independently. This takes less time than web work.

1) The magnets used are critical to extract (or better) performance. We are
not using anything special here. The TMB site describes their physical
dimensions, they are units we had left over from the bag of Radio Shack
units we purchased for the SMOT testing.We will place on the TMB site the
Gauss rating, although not many people have units they can pack around to
select desirable magnets.

2) We did not seek out special insulating material (dielectrics ?) to use
for the separators and insulator sheets.We grabbed what was at hand when the
idea was born. The plastic insulator sheets are important as well as the
cardboard separator sheets. For plastic cut up a common plastic storage bag,
like what you store lab samples in or what your wife uses for food. The
cardboard can not be of corrugated type, it must be somewhat homogenious.
The spacers we use are ~2mm in thickness (this will depend on the strength
of the magnets). The plastic is around a mil.

3)The magnetic pole directions are important for best performance. Incorrect
orentiations will result in some different although not so promising
reactions (like lower or not output). A TMB cell (using the Radio Shack or
similar strength magnets) would be constructed in the following order.

M(N) + Sp + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl + M(S)

Where M(x) = Magnet (N) North Pole or (S) Pole
Sp = 2mm spacer
Pl = plastic sheet

The plastic is very important, using the cardboard or paper without the
plastic (will) cause a false reading due to a voltage generation between the
moisture in the paper and contact with the metals. In short a crude battery.

The cell must be firmly clamped together with a non-magnetic clamp (Plastic)
preferred. This insures a somewhat uniform contact surface across all
components.

4)The impedance of the cell will vary (magnets and metal used). We have
measured this in the high end of 12Meg ohms to a low 4.7Meg ohms. You MUST
take this into consideration when selectiong your measurement equipment.
Using a 1Meg ohm X1 scopre probe will so load the circuit that you will most
likely be stuck < 2mv. To start out with try to use a instrument with at
least 10Meg input impedance.

5) Temperature and the TMB. The higher the temp the greater the output, we
have not tested above 45'C, in our tests we hold the cells at 26'C (78'F).
Be carefull you are not in a high air movement area (under an A/C vent) for
example, the TMB voltage will move all over the place.

6) TMB will pickup external EMF fields, so use some caution. Twist you meter
leads together and use ones as short as possible. For a scope use a good
shielded probe.

7) TMB being temperature and charge sensitive may give you a false thrill at
the out set. When assembling the cell you will transfer charge and heat to
the components. We have measured as much as 350mv initial charge during
assembly. This charge will drain off based on you load Z and will settle at
the cells somewhat constant voltage (based on components).

To insure you have a working TMB you will be able to charge and discharge
the 1uf storage cap repeatly. Doing so will insure that you are not seeing
some form of self charge in the cap itself. With self charge of the cap, you
will see a down word curve in the recharge voltage after each discharge,
down to ~ 0V.

**Before we describe a MFVC experiment I must make a statement for the
group. Our position is we do not want to release at this time the full
details of the MFVC. WHY ? Simple, we doubt very much that we would ever
make money from the device (for one of hundreds of reasons) and what we want
to obtain at the very least is maybe having our names go along with the
history of the discovery. Because of this we want to have a somewhat firm
understanding of the principles under which it works. This could take days,
week or never. This does not mean we could never release the info, we will
when we decide we just can not figure it out and best let other minds attach
the technology.Selfish ? look in a mirror and reflect.

Here is the experiment to demonstrate one of the underlying operations of a
MFVC. Please read through it as our statement of what it shows is extreme.

Conduction of charge by magnetic flux in excess of 200ua, sufficient to
drive a LED without a DC path and NO AC component. Not so clear, look at
this.

*This is not a working MFVC as shown on our web site, it is a demonstration
of one of the underlying phenomena.

Required;
    (2) Magnets as described above.
    (2) Two plastic insulator sheets as described above
    (1) Cu plate cut the size of a magnet leaving a connection ear
    (1) Sn plate cut the size of a magnet leaving a connection ear
    (1) Resistor sub box or a handful of resistors 10ohms - 4.7k ohms
    (1) 40 Volt DC lab supply.

Purpose; To show charge flow through the coupling of the two magnets flux
field in combination with interaction of the Cu and Sn metal plates.


                  ******  S Cu S ****** Sn          "
                  |S  N|  S Cu S |S  N| Sn         "
         +40V     |    |  S Cu S |    | Sn       |\|
          --------|    |  S Cu S |    | Sn-------| |---RRRRR----- Gnd(-40V)
                  |    |  S Cu S |    | Sn       |/|
                  |S  N|  S Cu S |S  N| Sn     LED
                  ******  S Cu S ****** Sn

***Firmly clamp the test unit with a plastic clamp, the more applied
pressure the better, CAUTION insure the metal does NOT have sharp edges
which can penetrated through the plastic spacers. The insulation must be
maintained. Adjust the resistor value for the greatest charge through the
LED.

Change the magnet pole positions and observe the effect on charge transfer.
If your good construct the cell with opposing poles and see what happens.

This is one of the underlying facts of MFVC.

Hope it helps and keeps you all busy until we catch up.

Rex.A.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 07:36:51 1999
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From: Charlie Hodgson <chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com>
To: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Subject: RE: Orgone Energy Crystals
Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
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On 09-Aug-99 Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> D Adams wrote:
>> 
>> Bruce, can you elaborate on the 'orgone crystal'?
> 
> Enclosed is part of the report that I have. What I have not
> posted here is the procedure to obtain these materials from
> certain rock scrapings. I will post this at a later date if
> this material is well received. I have not yet typed out the
> rest of this report. I will finish typing the report if there
> is interest.
> 

Bruce,
  Impeccable timing, well, for me at least. I was unaware of
  this part of Reich's research.

> All rocks containing silica (SiO2) in the Observatory walls were
> affected: granites, quartz, slates, schists, gneisss, quartzites, and

This past weekend, I wanted to show my 5 y.o. daugther how to make
a spark, so I went to retrieve my spark flint from my camping supplies, 
and found the flint to be covered with pock-marks, and the plastic box 
it was in had 'whitish dust' on the inside. I wondered if something
bizzarre was happening or if it was common. I couldn't fathom a natural
process that could do this to stone in about a year's time-frame (last
time I used the flint).

I now wonder if the 'whitish dust' is calcuim.

Anyhow, thanks for posting the info. Any more references would 
be very welcome.

Charlie.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 08:00:30 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:06:17 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Charlie,

Now this is the type of response that I like to
receive. You are an original thinker, a true
Scientist... you have uplifted my spirit today.


Charlie Hodgson wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Bruce,
>   Impeccable timing, well, for me at least. I was unaware of
>   this part of Reich's research.


Not many are aware. You have to go right to the source if
you are going to get to the truth. It takes an odd individual
who is willing to do the work to turn over every stone. I mean
this in the abstract sense of the word, not concretely.


> 
> > All rocks containing silica (SiO2) in the Observatory walls were
> > affected: granites, quartz, slates, schists, gneisss, quartzites, and
> 
> This past weekend, I wanted to show my 5 y.o. daugther how to make
> a spark, so I went to retrieve my spark flint from my camping supplies,
> and found the flint to be covered with pock-marks, and the plastic box
> it was in had 'whitish dust' on the inside. I wondered if something
> bizzarre was happening or if it was common. I couldn't fathom a natural
> process that could do this to stone in about a year's time-frame (last
> time I used the flint).


Flint is a type of quartz... hmmm, could there be some sort of "Ultra
Chemistry" at work here? A type of transformation from the radon in
the air maybe?


> 
> I now wonder if the 'whitish dust' is calcuim.


Write me a private e-mail and I will respond to this.
I will no longer be subjected to senseless prodes.
You indicate a real interest to learn. You are welcome
with questions anytime.


      -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 08:15:10 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:12:34 -0700
Subject: Re: my TMB experiments
Message-ID: <19990810.081533.-387291.1.tv@juno.com>
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Hi Stefan,

>Stefan wrote:
>I just use only one piece of writing paper between the Cu and
>Sn plate as an isolator, the magnets just sit on the back of the plates
>with no isolation and this seems to work best.
>As these are Barium ferrite magnets, which have a very high DC
resistance,
>there is no problem with this.
>At the end of the magnets is the iron clamp, that is doing the back flux
>shortout and the mechanical pressure clamping.

With only paper between the Sn and Cu plates you have a weak battery.

Great that you are trying the experiments though.  Fast work !

What do you think about the comparison to Testatika experiment shown by
Paul Baumann of Methernitha ?  They seem very similar to me.

Take a look at the fine web site by Geoff Egel at:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/

particularly

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/swiss.htm



Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 08:22:21 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:15:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Testatika Principle Rediscovered  ?
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Hi Geoff,

Oops, sorry, I sent people to a "mirror" of your web page !

try this....

Take a look at the fine web site by Geoff Egel at:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/

particularly

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/swiss.htm

and then compare this with

http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm




>>With regard to the recent announcement by Rex of the ATGroup of the
>>Thermal Magnetic Battery (TMG) and the Magnetic Flux Virtual Conduit
>>(MFVC):
>>
>>http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>>
>> Please compare this to:
>>
>>http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/principle
>>

>Tried to get the second link but got what seemed to be an Italian
version
>of tripod front page.

>is this the correct url

>Geoff


Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 08:44:02 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:35:46 -0700
Subject: Open Source Energy Technology ?
Message-ID: <19990810.083549.-387291.3.tv@juno.com>
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Are you familiar with the Linux Operating system invented by Linux Torval
from Finland.  It is becoming a huge success in America and other
countries.  It is even giving a little worry to Bill Gates.   It is a big
success because it is a good operating system and it was devoloped using
the "open source" principle.  People all over the world have freely
contributed their time and talent to make it a success with all
benefiting.    There are also many people making money from it.   There
will be no single inventor of 21st century new energy technologies. 
There will be many people who will become rich and famous.    Not
communism or socialism but more like the teachings of Jesus.

There will also be many benefits and problems.

Why not an "open source" energy research project.  Isn't that what the
freenrg-L and Vortex-L lists are all about ?


>**Before we describe a MFVC experiment I must make a statement for the
>group. Our position is we do not want to release at this time the full
>details of the MFVC. WHY ? Simple, we doubt very much that we would ever
>make money from the device (for one of hundreds of reasons) and what we
want
>to obtain at the very least is maybe having our names go along with the
>history of the discovery. Because of this we want to have a somewhat
firm
>understanding of the principles under which it works. This could take
days,
>week or never. This does not mean we could never release the info, we
will
>when we decide we just can not figure it out and best let other minds
attach
>the technology.Selfish ? look in a mirror and reflect.


Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 09:43:24 1999
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From: "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
References: <19990810.083549.-387291.3.tv@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Open Source Energy Technology ?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:43:24 -0500
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> Why not an "open source" energy research project.  Isn't that what the
> freenrg-L and Vortex-L lists are all about ?

Well it has appeared to me over some three years 'LURKING' these lists that
so many talk and never experiment. Hartman is willing to try as many did
with the VACE work, yet in all very few really want to do the work, rather
they just want easy answers and results (present company excluded of
course).

This is not meant to start a long list of philosophical ramblings on this or
any other list, but when we are ready we will give the detail necessary, of
course we have the option of giving none, maybe that would be better.

If you or a number of other list members do not want the info we are giving
out and just want to wait for the free lunch, then say so. We save time by
not trying to give out information.

Ronald Stiffler, ATGROUP Principal.
From: <tv@juno.com>
To: <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:35 AM
Subject: Open Source Energy Technology ?


> Are you familiar with the Linux Operating system invented by Linux Torval
> from Finland.  It is becoming a huge success in America and other
> countries.  It is even giving a little worry to Bill Gates.   It is a big
> success because it is a good operating system and it was devoloped using
> the "open source" principle.  People all over the world have freely
> contributed their time and talent to make it a success with all
> benefiting.    There are also many people making money from it.   There
> will be no single inventor of 21st century new energy technologies.
> There will be many people who will become rich and famous.    Not
> communism or socialism but more like the teachings of Jesus.
>
> There will also be many benefits and problems.
>
> Why not an "open source" energy research project.  Isn't that what the
> freenrg-L and Vortex-L lists are all about ?
>
>
> >**Before we describe a MFVC experiment I must make a statement for the
> >group. Our position is we do not want to release at this time the full
> >details of the MFVC. WHY ? Simple, we doubt very much that we would ever
> >make money from the device (for one of hundreds of reasons) and what we
> want
> >to obtain at the very least is maybe having our names go along with the
> >history of the discovery. Because of this we want to have a somewhat
> firm
> >understanding of the principles under which it works. This could take
> days,
> >week or never. This does not mean we could never release the info, we
> will
> >when we decide we just can not figure it out and best let other minds
> attach
> >the technology.Selfish ? look in a mirror and reflect.
>
>
> Tim
> ( tv@juno.com )
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 10:25:58 1999
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tv@juno.com schrieb:
> 
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> >Stefan wrote:
> >I just use only one piece of writing paper between the Cu and
> >Sn plate as an isolator, the magnets just sit on the back of the plates
> >with no isolation and this seems to work best.
> >As these are Barium ferrite magnets, which have a very high DC
> resistance,
> >there is no problem with this.
> >At the end of the magnets is the iron clamp, that is doing the back flux
> >shortout and the mechanical pressure clamping.
> 
> With only paper between the Sn and Cu plates you have a weak battery.

When I insolated the Cu plate there was no voltage buildup !
Better a small battery than nothing ! :)

> 
> Great that you are trying the experiments though.  Fast work !
> 
> What do you think about the comparison to Testatika experiment shown by
> Paul Baumann of Methernitha ?  They seem very similar to me.
> 
> Take a look at the fine web site by Geoff Egel at:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/
> 
> particularly
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/swiss.htm

Well could be simular, but in this URL it is related to a RF effect ???
With the TMB we probably have  a DC effect , but I still have to measure
it with my
scope tonight.....
too bad I have to go on vacations on Friday, so I dont have much time
now and
in the next 2 weeks.

Best regards, Stefan.



> 
> Tim
> ( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 10:43:01 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor (RUDE AWAKENING)
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On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

> > I recall that some of Richard Hull's devices used air (N2 O2). Or do you
> > mean at one atmosphere, i.e. no vacuum system? If you are seeing amounts
> > of neutrons rivalling the Farnsworth Fusor, but without low pressure, that
> > certainly would be a very different device.
> 
> 
> The electrodes have to be immersed in deuterium gas, a mixture of
> deuterium and tritium, or helium-3 and deuterium. Neutrons can be
> created at a flip of a switch. I have named this arrangemnet the
> "Star-Chamber." Clean, safe, nuclear reactors could be designed using
> this discovery. 
>
> http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/perwkshp.htm

Very Interesting!  It's at 1-atm pressure?  (I'm still not clear on this.) 
This is not Farnsworth's device at all.  Lacking the inner grid, you lack
the big barrier which stands in the way of further development as an
energy source.


> > I suspect that the main reason for scientists' sudden acceptance of the
> > Farnsworth Fusor is that Richard Hull has been widely publicizing
> > Farnsworth's work, and has worked with the openminded physicist Dr. Robert
> > Forward in building neutron generators. Once they see that a real
> > scientist is working with a "taboo" device like the Fusor, then the
> > "taboo" evaporates, and all the rest of the scientists want a piece of the
> > action. 
> 
> 
> This is the gratitude that I get for contributing to this list.
> Has anyone even considered that I have something new here?

Yes.  What response would you prefer?


The orthodox-science response is to request to examine detailed evidence,
which usually would be in the form of full research papers (even
pre-pulications) which describe measurements in excruciating detail. 


Also... "real scientist" in the above means "one of the orthodoxy", or
"works at big university, has grants, etc."  By this definition, anyone
who is a "real scientist" is required to adhere to the taboos, and to see
that, at least until recently, desktop fusion is the domain of crackpots
and is not a fit topic for any "real scientist." 

Obviously this is a major criticism of "real" scientists!  I do not
consider myself to be a scientist, since the lable "scientist" brings with
it all sorts of negative crap.  If you do science, I will tend NOT to call
you a scientist, since in my mind that is a bit of an insult.  "Heretic" 
or "maverick" or "science hobbyist" is a much better lable.


> > Such a theft is a very serious matter. Perhaps something can be done.
> > What did they swipe specifically?
> 
> The electrode design to create "star-mode" for neutron generating.
> I could be wrong... maybe they have perfected the grid sysyem, but
> I very much doubt this. We will see when the patent issues.


I suspect that are simply using Farnsworth's grids, and are going to start
selling Farnsworth Fusors.  This lets them make neutrons for research
purposes, but it cannot become a usable energy source on its own.


> > I realize that it's acceptable among inventors to hide the origins of 
> > new devices from the customer (it's better for business if everyone 
> > thinks that the product is NOT merely an improved version of somebody 
> > elses discovery.) However, it's different in science. In a science-forum 
> > we have much higher standards; we give attributions to the original 
> > sources of our work, and we maintain standards of honesty which are far, 
> > far higher than those in business or advertizing. This attitude is very 
> > bad for business, but then scientists are supposedly getting funding from
> > somewhere, and don't need to use marketing techniques to sell products or 
> > attract investors.
> 
> 
> You have given me a RUDE AWAKENING. This is a "science-forum?" In my
> eyes it is a blood-letting forum. "Higher standard?" Who's standard
> might that be? 

Flamers who repeatedly break the rules are not welcome.  Jerry Decker has
not apologized for his behavior (or even admitted to breaking the rules!) 
and so I will not allow him to participate anymore.

This is supposed to be a forum for people who are doing experiments, and
who want to attract others into reproducing the experiments and improving
upon them.  Since I rarely attend and behave as a full-bore moderator,
FREENRG-L wanders around and acts as a general communication channel for
subscribers.  Since there are only a very few people doing experiments and
publicizing their results, there are very few conversations here which are
actually "on topic." 


Don't misunderstand me, I do see that the "higher standard" in science
highlights the hypocricy of science as a whole.  On the one hand,
"Scientific Integrity" requires that scientists behave with extremely high
levels of honesty, and to hold back no secrets whatsoever.  Here's a good
reference: 

  CARGO CULT SCIENCE
  http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.html

Check out the second half which deals with "honesty".  This is article by
the offbeat physicist Richard Feynman.

But if scientists are required to be far more honest than nonscientists,
how can they dismiss an entire section of the world out of hand, with no
desire to even INSPECT the evidence being found by others?  How can they
participate in intellectual suppression?  Refusing to fund anything but
orthodox research, as well as ignoring inconvenient evidence, are
extremely dishonest acts, and it causes scientists become the very
opposite of what they profess to be. 

I see that most scientists dislike business because it requires secrecy,
and they wish to be "above" any need to prevent theft by others, or to
keep their business alive with marketing, self-promotion, etc.  I find
this attitude seductive, but I also see that it is a false front.  Modern
science is rotting from within, at the same time that scientists dislike
"lowering themselves" to the level of everyday businessmen!  Before
criticizing businessmen or pretending that they are inferior, scientists
need to clean their own house first.


> I am tired of being "poked and prodded" as Reich would say.
> It seems like most members on this list are quite content
> with rehashing what already exists. This is fine, but it is
> not my piece of cake. I am an origional thinker and I march to
> a different drummer. Jerry is correct about one other point, I can 
> not make it in your "real world," to your standards I am quite insane, 
> crazy, eccentric, whatever you want to call me, call me what you will.

Which standards are these?

My personal standards are currently biased towards science as it should
be: a free exploration of the details of the world unhobbled by concerns
of money, secrecy, theft, reputations, etc.  I can only afford to think
like this because... I currently have a good income! 

I recognize the "business world" aspects of New Energy research, but I
myself do the opposite.  I post everything on internet, and if I ever
stumble across something worthwhile, it will be others who make money off
of it.  I want to be an educator, not a researcher.  If I was to try to
make a living off of research, my attitude would probably change quickly.


> I will cling onto this list for a few days until the responses 
> to my posts stop. I can now appreciate why Tesla made announcements
> only once per year.


I wonder...  If Tesla could do it all over again, might he decid to just
freely publish every detail, in order that much his work wouldn't be lost
or be suppressed by ignorance?  Or maybe he would have decided to let
humankind go screw itself, and just go and live an enjoyable life.  Let's
see how far we all could get without any Tesla patents to steal. 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 10:47:27 1999
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From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC
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At 09:10 AM 08/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>The plastic is very important, using the cardboard or paper without the
>plastic (will) cause a false reading due to a voltage generation between the
>moisture in the paper and contact with the metals. In short a crude battery.
>
>The cell must be firmly clamped together with a non-magnetic clamp (Plastic)
>preferred. This insures a somewhat uniform contact surface across all
>components.
>

Volta, circa 1820, displayed a novel pile which was used to source a high
voltage supply of electricity for charging Leyden jars. The high voltage
was supplied from the alternate stacking of two dissimilar metals and
separated with a dry (Ph neutral) insulative dielectric. With his setup,
ion transport was most probable.

I must ask if you have considered as a possibility, ion transport through
the 1 mm plastic membrane.

Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 10:50:05 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Open Source Energy Technology ?
In-Reply-To: <19990810.083549.-387291.3.tv@juno.com>
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On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 tv@juno.com wrote:

> Why not an "open source" energy research project.  Isn't that what the
> freenrg-L and Vortex-L lists are all about ?

Yes!  It might happen for the same reason that Linux happened: those who
follow normal scientific or business methods are hobbled.  Those who take
seriously the "open source" idea are not.  The little bugs can stride
right past the insane battling giants because the giants NEVER stop
fighting long enough to move rapidly forward, and so all their massive
capabilities are useless.  In the long run, who will win the race?


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 11:08:02 1999
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Date: 	Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:10:02 -0700
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Thanks Knuke!!

Michael T Huffman wrote:

> Thanks Bill and Mitch for the work function/ionization potential info.
>
> >Any one know how practical this would be?  Assuming that a normal commercial
> >solar array to power an average sized home would be approx $20,000.00 USD
> >how much would it cost to construct a comparable array?  Any ideas?
>
> It would depend on what you used for materials, how much time it took you to
> build them, and how well they turned out.  I am thinking along the lines of
> using junk, like copper wire from thrown away appliances, inverted baby food
> jars for containers, maybe something common like vinegar and salt mixed with
> water for the electrolyte, and a dab of 502 epoxy to plug any holes in the
> jar caps where the wires come out.  This would cost next to nothing to try,
> get some meter readings from it, and then run the numbers to scale it up.
>
> Some of the cost of commercial units is in the inverter, which wouldn't be
> cheap.  I've priced them at West Marine, and I forget what they are now, but
> off the top of my head, I think the one I was looking at was over a grand.
> If you want or even have enough electricity left over during peak generation
> hours to feed back into the grid, the circuitry for that is also a
> considerable expense.  Another part the cost of commercial units is labor.
>
> If you had a steady load DC application that could be run separate from the
> main house current then it might be practical.  When I worked in Alaska, we
> had a fuel barge that had to have running lights and an anchor light that
> had to be operative all the time.  Rather than have a genset on the barge
> running all the time, we used a big marine battery that we just charged up
> for each light with a photoelectric switch that would turn the lights on at
> night.  One good charge would last about six weeks.  You could do something
> similar for driveway or patio lighting on a house using DC lamps, for
> example. After the initial construction, it would not cost you anything to
> operate, and you could skip the expense of an inverter.  You can probably
> think of some other stand-alone applications that would reduce your energy
> draw from the grid.
>
> Down here in Florida, especially in these little communities like The
> Villages, a lot of people get around in golf carts.  They do their shopping,
> banking, get mail, and visit friends, etc..  They have special roads, lanes,
> and bridges for them, so they are not just for golf.  They don't use them
> all day generally, but when they do use them, they draw a lot of energy from
> the battery banks.  A cheap solar cell array charger would be great for
> something like that, and it wouldn't need any inverter, either.
>
> The advantage of doing something like this as a hobby or as time permits, is
> that you can just add to the array as parts and time become available.  If a
> cell like that did produce any usable power, I suppose you could work your
> way off of the grid a little at a time, until eventually you became totally
> independant, although it might take an acre of the things if they are not
> very powerful:)
>
> Knuke
>
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 11:12:43 1999
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Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC
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From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC

>
> Volta, circa 1820, displayed a novel pile which was used to source a high
> voltage supply of electricity for charging Leyden jars. The high voltage
> was supplied from the alternate stacking of two dissimilar metals and
> separated with a dry (Ph neutral) insulative dielectric. With his setup,
> ion transport was most probable.
>
> I must ask if you have considered as a possibility, ion transport through
> the 1 mm plastic membrane.
>
> Colin Quinney
>
Yes to some degree, although what we observe and what should be taking place
if this were the case have two different out comes. The B should deflect or
alter the path of the ion and not block it as observed with different pole
configurations. Maybe we looked at this incorrectly, but worst case would be
a reduced charge and not a blocking of it.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 12:00:21 1999
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From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC
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At 01:14 PM 08/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
>To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 3:48 PM
>Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC
>
>>
>> Volta, circa 1820, displayed a novel pile which was used to source a high
>> voltage supply of electricity for charging Leyden jars. The high voltage
>> was supplied from the alternate stacking of two dissimilar metals and
>> separated with a dry (Ph neutral) insulative dielectric. With his setup,
>> ion transport was most probable.
>>
>> I must ask if you have considered as a possibility, ion transport through
>> the 1 mm plastic membrane.
>>
>> Colin Quinney
>>
>Yes to some degree, although what we observe and what should be taking place
>if this were the case have two different out comes. The B should deflect or
>alter the path of the ion and not block it as observed with different pole
>configurations. Maybe we looked at this incorrectly, but worst case would be
>a reduced charge and not a blocking of it.
>

When I first came across the reference to Volta's dry voltaic pile, I was
most delighted that he had even considered it, since up to that time he had
only been working with wet electrolytes. I find myself just as delighted in
your experiment and I thank you for your sharing-- I wish very much for
your success. 

Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a non porous plastic to replace
the household plastic film? Maybe Dupont has some DC resistance
measurements of mylar vss polyethylene etc. If membrane ion transport can
be ruled out, you will be working from a more secure foundation. And that's
a good thing :-)  

Best Regards,
Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 13:16:12 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:15:32 -1000
Subject: Star-mode: the Farnsworth Fusor
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Bruce -

> It seems like most members on this list are quite content
> with rehashing what already exists.

That is a stunningly ironic statement coming form one who claims a new
energy device which turns out to be nothing more than a Farnsworth Fusor
derivative, the likes of which have been studied and modified for years in
universities and labs with many different types of electrostatic, magnetic,
and inertial confinement schemes.

Rehashing indeed.

But if you've actually managed to produce the approximately 5th order of
magnitude increase in their efficiency to hit break even, you'd certainly
have something worth crowing about. Is it your claim to have driven these
units to this sort of performance? And if you did, could you describe the
general details of the setup, like the time and location, the measurements
used to determine the energy and neutron flux, and the amount of shielding
used with the experiment?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 14:09:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:15:22 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> Bruce -
> 
> > It seems like most members on this list are quite content
> > with rehashing what already exists.
> 
> That is a stunningly ironic statement coming form one who claims a new
> energy device which turns out to be nothing more than a Farnsworth Fusor
> derivative, the likes of which have been studied and modified for years in
> universities and labs with many different types of electrostatic, magnetic,
> and inertial confinement schemes.
> 
> Rehashing indeed.


I am not claiming this as my new energy device. The "star-mode"
electrodes
are a spin-off from the main research. It resulted in our work with the
Moray stone formula. Many different variations were tried. One night my
associate Calvin Bahlmann got the idea to coat electrodes with these 
materials just for the heck of it. One of the material formed a star
like
discharge when fired up. He called me right away to explain this strange
effect. I then tried then tried the coated electrodes in my own lab. To
my surprise it was something that I had observed before. It was the 
"star-mode" that Richard Hull spoke about that was needed to generate
the 
neutrons in the fuser. However, our electrodes do not have the
associated 
electron loss. The rest is history. So, most of the credit for star-mode 
electrodes goes to my associate Mr. Bahlmann. No rehash here, just plain
old fashion discovery.


> 
> But if you've actually managed to produce the approximately 5th order of
> magnitude increase in their efficiency to hit break even, you'd certainly
> have something worth crowing about. Is it your claim to have driven these
> units to this sort of performance? And if you did, could you describe the
> general details of the setup, like the time and location, the measurements
> used to determine the energy and neutron flux, and the amount of shielding
> used with the experiment?


If there funding were available I could give you hard numbers. However,
my
main research takes priority at this point. I am more of the Edison
type,
something works I go with it. I have been willing in the past to give
out free electrodes for fuser researchers under strict non-disclosure
agreements. This 
is how Daimler could have swiped the concept. One researcher was from
Germany 
and it is quite possible that this person is an engineer from Daimler.


      -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 14:57:23 1999
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> Is Daimler actually using a gridless coated electrode design like yours to
> get enhanced fusion counts? And this was developed after you gave one (or a
> set) of these electrodes to a German engineer who may be associated with
> Daimler? I have to admit that would be very suspicious.


I automatically assumed that they are not using grids because of their
claims 
on their website. It is doubtful that what they are claiming could be
achieved 
with grids. However, this may turn out to be another typical "rehash" of 
Farnsworth's expired Fuser patents. It is just beyond my way of thinking
how 
their announcement come off as being something new. If this is the case
then
Bill is correct in how business is conducted these days. So, I may stand 
corrected on my assumption. This will be one time that I wouldn't mind
being 
proved wrong. I guess I should pull the link off my site until I know
for sure. 


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 14:59:36 1999
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Hi All,

today I got the new Net-Journal from
Adolf Schneider (Jupiter-Verlag, Switzerland)
adolf.schneider@datacomm.ch

There he wrote a report of his visit at he 
"Tommorows World Live" exhibition in London, UK.

He visited there the booth of the bosnic inventors
company Mr. Husein Hulic,
who showed him a Cu-Sn batttery WITHOUT a magnet !
The protoytpe works since 1971, had prior been used
with permanent magnets, but the inventor Mr. Zahir Klepo
has just found out, that it also  works without magnets
and just needs the right dry dielectricum "pasta" which will dry
out, if baked and produces a voltage between the Cu and Sn plates.
He told Mr. Schneider, that you have to put it onto the plates
"like butter", and bake it then at 50 degrees celsius until it is dry
and glued together.

The prototype uses 18 cells of 6 x 10 cm ( 3 in parallel with 6 in
series)
and the weight is about 1 Kilogramm.
It produces a free running voltage of 4.9 Volts DC (open circuit
voltage)
and when powering an LED, the voltage goes down to 1.6 Volts and
a current of 2 mA is flowing, thus the unit can deliver about 3.2
mWatts.
Schneider extrapolated the energy density, if it would be build not
manually,
but industrially optimized with 1/3 Watts per Kg, thus he thinks of a
commercial
home power plant with 2.1 Kwatts of power having 1 qubicmeter of volume
and a weight
of 7000 Kg.
Schneider guesses the principle behind the power generation to be a
conversion of surroundig-heat
to electricity via the polymeer-dielectric versus metal plates reaction.
The batteries do not run down !
One prototype of the Klepo battery already runs since 1971 ! The
inventor already changed
the transistor radio he also used to power it with it, but never the
battery,  Schneider was told !

So far the latest report from Net Journal.
It seems the MFVC of the ATGROUP has a better energy density, than the
KLEPO
battery !

Regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 16:04:50 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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William Beaty wrote:
> 
> http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/perwkshp.htm
> 
> Very Interesting! It's at 1-atm pressure? (I'm still not clear on this.)
> This is not Farnsworth's device at all. Lacking the inner grid, you lack
> the big barrier which stands in the way of further development as an
> energy source.


No, microns in the working chamber. No, its not a Farnsworth device.
It is a Perreault/Bahlmann device.


> 
> > > I suspect that the main reason for scientists' sudden acceptance of the
> > > Farnsworth Fusor is that Richard Hull has been widely publicizing
> > > Farnsworth's work, and has worked with the openminded physicist Dr. Robert
> > > Forward in building neutron generators. Once they see that a real
> > > scientist is working with a "taboo" device like the Fusor, then the
> > > "taboo" evaporates, and all the rest of the scientists want a piece of the
> > > action.
> >
> >
> > This is the gratitude that I get for contributing to this list.
> > Has anyone even considered that I have something new here?
> 
> Yes. What response would you prefer?


I appologize for being snappy... my hairs are still scorched from
the flame war the other day.


> 
> The orthodox-science response is to request to examine detailed evidence,
> which usually would be in the form of full research papers (even
> pre-pulications) which describe measurements in excruciating detail.


The problem is that I do not have the resources for this type of
accountability at this time. If I had the resources someone would
be hired to do this.


> 
> Also... "real scientist" in the above means "one of the orthodoxy", or
> "works at big university, has grants, etc."  By this definition, anyone
> who is a "real scientist" is required to adhere to the taboos, and to see
> that, at least until recently, desktop fusion is the domain of crackpots
> and is not a fit topic for any "real scientist."
> 
> Obviously this is a major criticism of "real" scientists!  I do not
> consider myself to be a scientist, since the lable "scientist" brings with
> it all sorts of negative crap. If you do science, I will tend NOT to call
> you a scientist, since in my mind that is a bit of an insult. "Heretic"
> or "maverick" or "science hobbyist" is a much better lable.


I think about myself as a Scientist from the "old school."


<<snip>>

> 
> I suspect that are simply using Farnsworth's grids, and are going to start
> selling Farnsworth Fusors.  This lets them make neutrons for research
> purposes, but it cannot become a usable energy source on its own.


If this is the case then I will stand corrected. It is beyond me how
business is conducted these days.


<<snip>>


> > You have given me a RUDE AWAKENING. This is a "science-forum?" In my
> > eyes it is a blood-letting forum. "Higher standard?" Who's standard
> > might that be?
> 
> Flamers who repeatedly break the rules are not welcome.  Jerry Decker has
> not apologized for his behavior (or even admitted to breaking the rules!)
> and so I will not allow him to participate anymore.


I tried real hard not to engage in any flames. I do appologize to the
list for being the focus of the bitching. I do not know of any other
way that I could have handled it.


> 
> This is supposed to be a forum for people who are doing experiments, and
> who want to attract others into reproducing the experiments and improving
> upon them.  Since I rarely attend and behave as a full-bore moderator,
> FREENRG-L wanders around and acts as a general communication channel for
> subscribers.  Since there are only a very few people doing experiments and
> publicizing their results, there are very few conversations here which are
> actually "on topic."


Well, if anything positive came about it did get your attention.


> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I do see that the "higher standard" in science
> highlights the hypocricy of science as a whole.  On the one hand,
> "Scientific Integrity" requires that scientists behave with extremely high
> levels of honesty, and to hold back no secrets whatsoever.  Here's a good
> reference:
> 
>   CARGO CULT SCIENCE
>   http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.html
> 
> Check out the second half which deals with "honesty".  This is article by
> the offbeat physicist Richard Feynman.
> 
> But if scientists are required to be far more honest than nonscientists,
> how can they dismiss an entire section of the world out of hand, with no
> desire to even INSPECT the evidence being found by others?  How can they
> participate in intellectual suppression?  Refusing to fund anything but
> orthodox research, as well as ignoring inconvenient evidence, are
> extremely dishonest acts, and it causes scientists become the very
> opposite of what they profess to be.
> 
> I see that most scientists dislike business because it requires secrecy,
> and they wish to be "above" any need to prevent theft by others, or to
> keep their business alive with marketing, self-promotion, etc.  I find
> this attitude seductive, but I also see that it is a false front.  Modern
> science is rotting from within, at the same time that scientists dislike
> "lowering themselves" to the level of everyday businessmen!  Before
> criticizing businessmen or pretending that they are inferior, scientists
> need to clean their own house first.


Being a self-educated, self-funded scientist/inventor/writer/promotor...
fine details have to be kept secret... at least until products are out
of the bag... this has been the source of my troubles.

<<snip>>

> 
> Which standards are these?
> 
> My personal standards are currently biased towards science as it should
> be: a free exploration of the details of the world unhobbled by concerns
> of money, secrecy, theft, reputations, etc.  I can only afford to think
> like this because... I currently have a good income!
> 
> I recognize the "business world" aspects of New Energy research, but I
> myself do the opposite.  I post everything on internet, and if I ever
> stumble across something worthwhile, it will be others who make money off
> of it.  I want to be an educator, not a researcher.  If I was to try to
> make a living off of research, my attitude would probably change quickly.


If I had a good income then would gladly welcome your standard as my
own.
However, as you know, the world is not fair. There are nessessary evils
to endure. 

<<snip>>

> 
> I wonder...  If Tesla could do it all over again, might he decid to just
> freely publish every detail, in order that much his work wouldn't be lost
> or be suppressed by ignorance?  Or maybe he would have decided to let
> humankind go screw itself, and just go and live an enjoyable life.  Let's
> see how far we all could get without any Tesla patents to steal.


I guess it would depend on his lot in life, wouldn't it?


        -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 16:27:26 1999
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Hi Rex,

atglab wrote:
<snip>

> M(N) + Sp + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl + M(S)
>
> Where M(x) = Magnet (N) North Pole or (S) Pole
> Sp = 2mm spacer
> Pl = plastic sheet
>

I miss the Cu plate here. From my understanding so far i guess it has to be:

M(N) + Sp + Cu + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl + M(S)

Is that right ?



>
>
> Hope it helps and keeps you all busy until we catch up.
>
> Rex.A.

Yes, that is a lovely challenge.
Unfortunately I have to go on an official journey for three days.
But then ....

See you
Tameer


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 16:45:26 1999
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 Big Wednesday
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If the gravity slightly changes when there is a total eclipse, it's not because
of a decrease in light flow but because of the effect the moon has on matter on
earth.

The moon has a great effect, it changes the water level on the surface of the
earth.
And that's not related to heat, that's related to the gravitational force of the
moon.

If you were right, then the satelites would change their orbit depending on how
much light they have.

And if you were right then I could make things fly around by pointing a laser at
them.

Peter Fred wrote:

> One thing that happens when the Moon gets in front of the Sun:  A lot of
> sunlight is prevented from reaching the Earth.  There seems to be evidence
> that weight does change during an eclipse.  See in particular Saxl's paper:
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Saxl.htm).
>
> My heat-related gravity theory tells me that the gravitational force, which
> is easily observed in the outer portions of the Earth, has the function of
> resisting the flow of heat (ie the unit area heat flux).
>
>  An eclipse decreases the amount of heat that Earth reradiates on the
> dayside.  Because there is less outward flow of heat during a solar eclipse,
> less thermal resistance ie gravitational force is required to resist this
> flow of heat.
>
> In my laboratory or living room I make heat flow through a hemisphere in the
> steady state and I get a decrease in weight (~3.7 %).  See
> http://www4.choice.net/~pbfred/ .
>
> My theory also requires that "things should get heavier in the night."  The
> centripetal acceleration of the Earth is only 0.006 m/s^2.  The surface
> gravity is 9.80 m/s^2.    So if the surface gravity on the dayside is
> observed to be 9.80 m/s^2 and on the night side it is observed to be 9.8006
> m/s^2, we would be well on our way in having a new explanation for how this
> 10^24 kg sphere moves from A to B.
>
> Allais has observed a diurnal variation in g.  See
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Allais.htm.  I had a friend
> observe a diurnal variation in g using a Hodowanec type capacitor.  See
> http://www.t-link.net/~aquarius/gwrphome/circuits.htm for this type of
> capacitor.
>
> Peter Fred
>
> The NASA site about Big Wednesday is:
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm
>
> There is an old wives tale that you should not weigh gold during an eclipse.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 17:09:18 1999
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Can anyone give me an idea of what readily available items are made of
Sn?  I know that tin cans are composed of only a small amount of  tin. I
cant seem to think of anything made from pure Sn.

Any suggestions?



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 17:16:33 1999
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Hi,
I am in this moment a little puzzled..

Did I and ATGROUP mix up Sn versus Zn ?

What plates are they using with the TMB ?

They always speak of Zinc plates, but they always
write Sn, which is just TIN !

Please have a look at:

http://www.micronmetals.com/30.htm
http://www.micronmetals.com/50.htm
http://www.micronmetals.com/ste.htm

Which one is the right ?

Regards, Stefan.



Brian Snyder schrieb:
> 
> Can anyone give me an idea of what readily available items are made of
> Sn?  I know that tin cans are composed of only a small amount of  tin. I
> cant seem to think of anything made from pure Sn.
> 
> Any suggestions?

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 19:35:43 1999
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From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Brian -

> Can anyone give me an idea of what readily available items are made of
> Sn?  I know that tin cans are composed of only a small amount of  tin. I
> cant seem to think of anything made from pure Sn.
>
> Any suggestions?


Metals suppliers, online catalogs. Also scrap dealers. One source is the
metal tubes for soda and carbonated water they used to use in bars and
restaurants. I got a few pieces from that source. It's a low temperature
melt, so you could cast some and pound out or roll your own sheet. Jewelers
have small hand crank metal rollers, so you might be able to get them to
roll you out some pieces for you.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 21:51:03 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From:	patrick tremblay [mailto:energeon@microtec.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, August 10, 1999 7:47 PM
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: Does the  Sun's  luminosity move the Earth or does its mass?
and Big Wednesday

If the gravity slightly changes when there is a total eclipse, it's not
because
of a decrease in light flow but because of the effect the moon has on matter
on
earth.

You are giving me test book answers.  In Saxl paper there is strong evidence
to support the view that the torsion pendulum increased its weight by 5 %.
By actually adding weights to his pendulum Saxl was able to infer that the
pendulum would have increased its weight by 1.2 kg.  This would be 5%
increase of his 23.4 kg of his pendulum.  In his paper he says that older
theories predicts that g would only vary only by 1.6 X 10^ --5 % and thus he
says "our result are about as 10^5 times as great."


The moon has a great effect, it changes the water level on the surface of
the
earth.
And that's not related to heat, that's related to the gravitational force of
the
moon.

I have calculated the effect of moonlight using my formula and I got some
decent results.  But I am not going to the trouble to dig up my calculations
because I do not think you have spent much time reading my paper or Saxls

If you were right, then the satelites would change their orbit depending on
how
much light they have.

And if you were right then I could make things fly around by pointing a
laser at
them.

I go to a lot of trouble in my paper to explain how light is related to the
gravitational force.  You are giving me hypothetical situations.  I would
prefer you would go to my paper and tell me say what is wrong with my 99%
prediction of the surface gravity of the Earth.   (Where I use the total
heat flux of the Earth that in turn is determined by that amount of sunlight
that the Earth receives from the Sun.)




Peter Fred wrote:

> One thing that happens when the Moon gets in front of the Sun:  A lot of
> sunlight is prevented from reaching the Earth.  There seems to be evidence
> that weight does change during an eclipse.  See in particular Saxl's
paper:
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/Saxl.htm).
>
> My heat-related gravity theory tells me that the gravitational force,
which
> is easily observed in the outer portions of the Earth, has the function of
> resisting the flow of heat (ie the unit area heat flux).
>
>  An eclipse decreases the amount of heat that Earth reradiates on the
> dayside.  Because there is less outward flow of heat during a solar
eclipse,
> less thermal resistance ie gravitational force is required to resist this
flow of heat.


This above paragraph is wrong.   I have changed it to:

A solar eclipse cools the dayside of the Earth so when a test mass is in
the shadow of the Moon, more heat can flow outward towards the sky.  The
increased outward heat flow requires more thermal resistance or
gravitational force and thus the test mass should weigh more.   Saxl did
observe an increase in the pendulum period and thus this is evidence that
the pendulum increased in weight.



*
* >
> In my laboratory or living room I make heat flow through a hemisphere in
the
> steady state and I get a decrease in weight (~3.7 %).  See
> http://www4.choice.net/~pbfred/ .
>
> My theory also requires that "things should get heavier in the night."
The
> centripetal acceleration of the Earth is only 0.006 m/s^2.  The surface
> gravity is 9.80 m/s^2.    So if the surface gravity on the dayside is
> observed to be 9.80 m/s^2 and on the night side it is observed to be
9.8006
> m/s^2, we would be well on our way in having a new explanation for how
this
> 10^24 kg sphere moves from A to B.
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 10 22:14:28 1999
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References: <005101bee33a$b7002180$253efea9@y9g6r3> <37B0B51B.B59DDDFB@csi.com>
Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:15:53 -0500
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M(N) + Sp + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl Cu + M(S)

----- Original Message -----
From: Tameer Hohnsbein <THohnsbein@csi.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: TMB & MFVC


> Hi Rex,
>
> atglab wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > M(N) + Sp + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl + M(S)
> >
> > Where M(x) = Magnet (N) North Pole or (S) Pole
> > Sp = 2mm spacer
> > Pl = plastic sheet
> >
>
> I miss the Cu plate here. From my understanding so far i guess it has to
be:
>
> M(N) + Sp + Cu + Sp + Pl + Sn + Pl + M(S)
>
> Is that right ?
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hope it helps and keeps you all busy until we catch up.
> >
> > Rex.A.
>
> Yes, that is a lovely challenge.
> Unfortunately I have to go on an official journey for three days.
> But then ....
>
> See you
> Tameer
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 10:03:29 1999
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From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
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Subject: Re: Mixup of Sn (TIN) versus Zn (Zinc).. MFVC setup ?
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References: <005101bee33a$b7002180$253efea9@y9g6r3> <37B0B51B.B59DDDFB@csi.com> <37B0BF77.F77CE68D@technologist.com> <37B0C0E3.F0BC03C8@harti.com> <001d01bee3b8$72a8b820$6720fea9@y9g6r3>
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Sorry,
then it was my mistake by mixing up the info
of the Klepo magnet battery where Zn (Zinc) is used versus your TMB
where
SN (Tin) is used !

BTW, maybe your MFVC ( you really need a better name for it !:
what about "Green Magnet Battery", cause you used a Green LED and
Green is asscociated with Green environmentally friendly technology ???
:) )
could mabye be a Seeberg-Effect device, where you have put your
Sn-Cu plates in the center of the device 
directly touching together without any insolator and via the surface
contacts generate a "thermocouple"
voltage, which you drive up by the magnet field ?
Now the 3rd plate at the other magnet is just the other pole of this
thermocouple driven capacitor ?
Mayeb somehow the Seeberg effect is amplified by introducing the
magnetic field ?

Regards, Stefan.

atglab schrieb:
> 
> Where do we speak of zinc ?
> 
> From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
> To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 7:16 PM
> Subject: Mixup of Sn (TIN) versus Zn (Zinc) ??
> 
> > Hi,
> > I am in this moment a little puzzled..
> >
> > Did I and ATGROUP mix up Sn versus Zn ?
> >
> > What plates are they using with the TMB ?
> >
> > They always speak of Zinc plates, but they always
> > write Sn, which is just TIN !
> >
> > Please have a look at:
> >
> > http://www.micronmetals.com/30.htm
> > http://www.micronmetals.com/50.htm
> > http://www.micronmetals.com/ste.htm
> >
> > Which one is the right ?
> >
> > Regards, Stefan.
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Snyder schrieb:
> > >
> > > Can anyone give me an idea of what readily available items are made of
> > > Sn?  I know that tin cans are composed of only a small amount of  tin. I
> > > cant seem to think of anything made from pure Sn.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions?
> >
> > --
> > Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> > email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
> >

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 10:29:33 1999
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http://www.sightings.com/politics4/inhale.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 10:46:06 1999
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> 
> As to your experiment with the inductor and capacitor where you hard shorted
> the two together and it discharged in approx. 3 sec where as when you
> produced an arc the capacitor did not seem to lose charge very quickly.
> I would say it is very hard to draw the possible conclusions what you did

Right, I had no scope there during this experiment, so I could only
guess...

> When you hard short it if you had a scope connected you would see it ring at
> the natural resonance and gradually decay due the parasitic losses in the
> circuit.  

With this capacitance and the L is pretty small and R= 9 Ohm,
it will just decay without ringing...!
Q is too weak to ring !

>When you "drag" the wire and produce a "poor" connection that
> draws an arc there is no control over the impedance of this connection.

Right. It also generates a negative resistance due to the arc !

> Also since the voltage impressed on the connection is AC depending on how
> you are holding the wire at the exact point in time the arc could quench at
> a zero crossing and the discharging of the cap would cease.  Hence giving
> the appearance of not discharging as fast which it is not (but not due to
> any anomalous effects).

I had a 15000 uF Capacitor at 20 Volts DC,
this gives 3 milliWattsseconds of total stored energy for the experiment
to start with.
Cap Energy= 0.5 x C x V^2

Hmm, I guess, that if you connect under t < 0.2 tau (0.2 x L/R) in this
period you transfer
all the energy into the L and not into R of the coil, so I have stored
all the transfer energy
in the magnetic field of the coil and not lost it via heating R (9 Ohm).
When I now cut off the current rapidly by pulling the contacts, there
the arc appears
and all the magnetic energy is converted into the arc buildup and
heatup.
Now the question is:
when the voltage after the experiment still shows 19.5 Volts at the
capacitor,
I have used a calculated energy transfer of :
Cap energy difference= 3 milliWattsseconds - 2.851875 milliWattsseconds
= 148.125 uWattsseconds
for generating the arc !

Now: Is really this small energy just needed for the arc : just  148.125
uWattsseconds ?

This looks pretty amazing !

I will try to find a setup, where I can store the arc energy back to
another capacitor
and thus try to see, how high I can load it with this energy.
Now, if this other capacitor (also at 15000 uF) can be higher charged
and will have a higher voltage
than the first cap,
it will be proven, that the arc is generating overunity energy.

Best regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 14:31:49 1999
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http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/111/bessler.htm

Will this work ?

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 16:38:08 1999
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http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le/le17.htm
http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le/le18.htm
http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le/le19.htm


Also supports the TMB theories of the www.atgroup.org !

Regards, Stefan.


--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 11 19:30:23 1999
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Here's a site for a physics theory that claims to make a better predicition
than relativity for a number of observations, including the Allais foucault
pendulum anomaly.

http://www.autodynamics.org/new99/physindex.html

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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http://www.can.cz/vessels.htm



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William Beaty wrote:
I do not consider myself to be a scientist, since the lable "scientist" brings
with

> it all sorts of negative crap.  If you do science, I will tend NOT to call
> you a scientist, since in my mind that is a bit of an insult.  "Heretic"
> or "maverick" or "science hobbyist" is a much better lable.

 Heh..Good Points Bill! I always tell em I'm a "Boy Scientist"..so I don't HAVE
TO follow their damn silly rules! (Historical Point: Say what you like about
Edison,
he was a farsighted fellow..one of his new hires asked on his first day:"What are
the Rules for this Laboratory?" Edison just shrugged, laughed, then SPIT on the
floor! Hollering:"There aint no rules! We're jus' tryin' to accomplish
something!")

 Cheers!

     -Erik

ps-I think I'm making progress...I found a good supply of glassblowing stuff..I'm
still looking for a good used vacuum pump that can do 3 microns or better ...
anybody? I'll spend up to $1000 for a REALLY good one..but cheaper is
more desirable!

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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:22:41 EDT
Subject: Re: GIT inventor had rediscovered Bessler Wheel ?
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In a message dated 8/11/99 2:32:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com 
writes:

> http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/111/bessler.htm
>  
>  Will this work ?
>  
No, but by all means anyone not convinced can try it.  This is a 
straightforward system for which the theory is simple and has been proven 
accurate many thousands if not millions of times.  For a working overunity 
system you need some feature not known to current analysis techniques, or at 
least applied in a unique way.
                                                             Ken

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:28:31
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
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Hi Rick and all,
At 08:58 PM 8/3/99 -1000, you wrote:

>Start with both fingers touching above and below as in the photo. Find the
>neutral point, and then *very carefully* spread your fingers. I have to
>brace my wrist against something and hold my breath.
>
>> Haven't tried carbon yet, but the candle wax I tested was slightly
>> paramagnetic, not diamagnetic as required. I have tried copper between the
>> magnets which I measure as diamagnetic (or eddy current repulsion?).

Has anyone else tried carbon/graphite? The material I tried, from dry
cells, turns out to be (relatively) strong paramagnetic, not diamagnetic.
Texts say graphite, at least one form, is diamagnetic, about 2.6x that of
bismuth.
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 12 22:26:04 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <feb20595.24e505e8@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:23:52 EDT
Subject: Please see site to time date drawing
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Hello all,
Please see my web site to help me time date design. I will give operation 
details in next day or so. Try to figure out operational theory if you want 
till then. Drawing is first drawing with heading of "cutaway view".
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A> or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html 
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Note:If you don't want to mess with this just hit your delete button!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 00:59:56 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:37:13 -0700
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Hi Dave,

I'm baaack :-)

>Has anyone else tried carbon/graphite? The material I tried, from dry
>cells, turns out to be (relatively) strong paramagnetic, not diamagnetic.
>Texts say graphite, at least one form, is diamagnetic, about 2.6x that of
>bismuth.


Huh, the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics says for diamagnetic
susceptibility:

Graphite  - 6.0
Bismuth   -280.1

Where did you hear that? It might be very useful if true (Ecklin  generator
etc)

Fred



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 02:01:13 1999
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Hi All

I performed a crude experiment last night to test Peter Fred's theory; with
a hemi-spherical aluminium bowl (albeit with a flat bottom) suspended across
my gas hob by a thin stainless rod, pivoted at one end and with the other
end perched on some digital lab scales.

I know this is a crude experiment and there is a lot wrong with it, but I
TOO found a decrease in weight of approximately 2.4% of the weight of the
bowl.  I now wish to perform a more scientific experiment, and all
contributions to ensure I do not make any experimental pitfalls would be
appreciated (although it will probably take me some months for me to perform
and record the actual experiments as months seem like days at present).

Check out Peter's site @ http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/

I cannot theorise/imagine the underlying principal of why this works (above
what is stated on Peter's site), and there are a lot of observable
contradictions, but is sure seems to work.

I now know of three independent experiments that have resulted with similar
conclusions.  As it is fairly simple to try this; would anyone else care to
give it a go?

Now to explain to the missus what has happened to that ornamental bowl :=}

Best regards

David Callaghan
DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Fred <pbfred@choice.net>
<SNIP>



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 02:10:00 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:14:39 -0400
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>Hi Dave,
>
>I'm baaack :-)
>
>>Has anyone else tried carbon/graphite? The material I tried, from dry
>>cells, turns out to be (relatively) strong paramagnetic, not diamagnetic.
>>Texts say graphite, at least one form, is diamagnetic, about 2.6x that of
>>bismuth.
>
>
>Huh, the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics says for diamagnetic
>susceptibility:
>
>Graphite  - 6.0
>Bismuth   -280.1
>
>Where did you hear that? It might be very useful if true (Ecklin  generator
>etc)
>
>Fred

Hey Fred!

How goes it?  This is just a quick question, don't bother looking anything
up.  Someone the other day asked me if I had "heard anything about Bismuth
Teluride".  I hadn't and hung up.  In your tears through the data forest,
have you seen anything about what this is being used for?  It is evidently
something fairly recent (a development or breakthough of some kind), and I
just haven't had time to chase it down.  Thanks,

Knuke

PS If you haven't already heard from her yet, I'm sending an MD your way to
talk about alternative medicine.

 
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 02:39:28 1999
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To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:33:12 -0700
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Hi Knuke,


>
>How goes it?  This is just a quick question, don't bother looking anything
>up.  Someone the other day asked me if I had "heard anything about Bismuth
>Teluride".  I hadn't and hung up.  In your tears through the data forest,
>have you seen anything about what this is being used for?  It is evidently
>something fairly recent (a development or breakthough of some kind), and I
>just haven't had time to chase it down.  Thanks,

Well not really, but a quick tear through the internet :-) brought up the
fact that it is the major component of peltier effect thermoelectric
modules, so it is not new but it certainly interesting for being highly
thermoelectric.
Maybe they had an unusual new use for it in mind...
>

>
>PS If you haven't already heard from her yet, I'm sending an MD your way to
>talk about alternative medicine.
>
OK, sure.. I'm at my store on Thurs-Sat now so let her know...

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 02:53:39 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:58:27 -0400
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>Well not really, but a quick tear through the internet :-) brought up the
>fact that it is the major component of peltier effect thermoelectric
>modules, so it is not new but it certainly interesting for being highly
>thermoelectric.
>Maybe they had an unusual new use for it in mind...

I guess you haven't been monitoring the conversations lately, but there has
been some interest in creating low cost, homemade solar cells, and
thermoelectric generators.  The output is generally small but it works
forever.  Some folks have been experimenting with creating a glue/polymer to
put in between dissimilar metals.  When I first heard of Bismuth teluride, I
checked the label on Pepto Bismol, but it is made from Bismuth Salicylate.
Not the same, but maybe worth experimenting with in the kitchen :)  Thanks

Knuke  

>>
>
>>
>>PS If you haven't already heard from her yet, I'm sending an MD your way to
>>talk about alternative medicine.
>>
>OK, sure.. I'm at my store on Thurs-Sat now so let her know...
>
>Fred
>
>
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 05:35:46 1999
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:40:02 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Stefan Hartmann,

I was cleaning out my files today on my server due
to our web address change. I found this old URL
still in my directory. I think that you will find
it interesting because my response on the Testatika
was posted. This should clear the air about the
misconception that I was the one making the claim.

This is an older file so some graphics and other
links may not be valid.

http://homepage.fcgnetworks.net/nuenergy/main15.html


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 09:54:09 1999
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Message-ID: <37B44E04.C716877B@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:55:32 -0700
From: alik <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
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References: <016501bee6f0$6f7daf80$67b6bfd1@Pfepps>
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Hi everyone

There is whole bunch of old (1917) issues of   'electrical experimenter' on
e-bay with some Tesla articles
(do a seller search of 'tire') , I spent my book allowance long time ago...

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 10:00:39 1999
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:00:03 -1000
Subject: Re: Heat Gravity
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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David -

The reason heated objects weigh less is due to convection currents. If you
weigh them in a good vacuum, you will find that there is no weight
difference.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
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The diamagnetic levitator was recently in Sci. News and Nature. Check out
these sites: 

  Diamagnetic Levitator (graphite, no spin, no batteries!)
  http://lahr.org/john-jan/maglev/maglev.html

  SCITOYS: levitator (bismuth,  w/lots of photos)
  http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html


It's a current topic on the new AMATEUR SCIENCE FORUM, see:

   http://www.amasci.com/sci-list/sci-list.html

Challenge: make one that pushes up from below, rather than lifting from
above.  Hide the whole thing under a table, so all that you see is a small
magnet which floats above the surface.

Nasty: use a pair of crossed electromagnet coils in quadrature-phase to
accelerate the spin of a tiny disk-magnet until it explodes.  Set this up
in a vacuum chamber, then allow in some air and see if you can duplicate a
"re-entry burn" as your hypervelocity-spinning object collides with the
atmosphere.

Huh? :  I wonder if a spinning magnet displays any obvious "Torsion Field"
effects when it spins at oh, say 10KHz?  Or might this magnet respond to
a distant Torsion Field generator by moving measurably? 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:44:36 -0700
From: Martin Simon <msimon@physics.ucla.edu>
Reply-To: tap-l@listproc.appstate.edu
To: tap-l@listproc.appstate.edu
Subject: Re: another passive maglev

At 09:00 PM 8/9/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote:
>
>Here's one that uses bismuth instead of graphite.  Plenty of pictures!
>
>  http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html

This is based on our Nature paper and an article about it in Science News. 
It was clever for him to use bismuth shot as a source of diamagnetic
material.  More info and a link to the Nature paper is at
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/diamag/ A longer paper about the
levitator and other variations is almost ready. 

I am going to offer some levitators for sale for use in demonstrations. 
They look similar to the one in pictured on the web site. 

There are 2 models and two types of graphite.

Fixed gap model        	Variable gap 

model RGF   $34		RGV   $44
model PGF   $54                  PGV   $64

The RG models use a purified graphite which has a diamagnetic
susceptibility similar to bismuth.  The gap between the magnet and the
graphite plates is smaller than that shown in the picture. 

The PG models use the most diamagnetic substance available, a
form of graphite with a very anisotropic susceptibility.  It gives the
largest gap but is much more expensive.

The variable gap versions have an adjustable gap that can accomodate
small magnets between 1/16 of an inch and 1/4 of an inch tall.   They
allow for experimenting with single sided stabilization.  The top magnet
can be removed if one wants to experiment with different lifters, although
the new lifter would need to be supported in some way.

The fixed gap versions are set to handle a 1/8 inch magnet (which is
included).

You can easily make these yourself.  I have had a technician make up 
a limited number with an optimized compact design.  We are trying
to cover costs and pay the technician well for his time.  Mailing is 
included in the price.

Checks can be made out to me and mailed to

Martin Simon
UCLA Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
405 Hilgard Ave
Los Angeles CA 90095

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 15:46:35 1999
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Dear list members,

Bringing a concept from bench-top to product level is
no pic-nic. This is especially true when you are working
on a shoe string budget. 

The first product that I would like to introduce is a
6KHz. power inverter that is run on storage batteries.
The batteries can be charged by any number of alternative
energy systems now available.

Why 6KHz. you may ask? Two reasons, this was the output frequency
of the Moray radiant energy device. It was also the output frequency
of the Edwin Gray inverter that never made it to market because the
security exchange shut down his manufacturing plant. Ok, you say why
6KHz? Because at this frequency you can light up light-bulbs four
times longer from a battery source than you can from either direct
current or at 60Hz. This 6Khz. frequency will also run 60Hz. motors
and appliances, it has been claimed by Gray. At the very least we
can light our homes more efficiently with this frequency.

Right now this is one of my bench-top projects. What I want to do is
to introduce a 1KW power inverter for a Y2K back-up system. The best
circuit seems to be MOSFET driven. I do not see any major problem
with the introduction of this type product.

The next question that probably comes to mind is, why are you telling
us this? Because I need your help getting this first product out. I
need someone to build the circuits for me who is not going to charge
me what a manufacturing plant would. You would be paid by the piece.
You would also need to buy your own parts at the begining. You could
start out building two or three at a time. I will put them into the
pretty cases. What I don't know yet is how much of a percentage for
the completed boards over cost. Once things get going everyone will
make out... this includes the end user.

If anyone is interested please send me a private e-mail.


mailto:nuenergy@cyberportal.net


This is the first step... let's make it happen!


       Sincerely, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 17:30:56 1999
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Subject: Re: hovering magnet between your fingers
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Hi Fred and all,
At 08:37 PM 8/14/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>I'm baaack :-)
Welcome back!

>>Has anyone else tried carbon/graphite? The material I tried, from dry
>>cells, turns out to be (relatively) strong paramagnetic, not diamagnetic.
>>Texts say graphite, at least one form, is diamagnetic, about 2.6x that of
>>bismuth.
>
>
>Huh, the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics says for diamagnetic
>susceptibility:
>
>Graphite  - 6.0
>Bismuth   -280.1

Yes I've seen those numbers also but haven't been able to convert them to,
say, a relative permeability that agree with others. Relative permeability
of Bismuth = ? from the -280.1 number?
Some other texts say that carbon (graphite) is -5.6 x 10^-11 H/m and define
susceptibility as permeability= permeability(0) + susceptibility.
Thus the relative permeability = 1+ susc./perm(0).
This gives for graphite  1-0.000044 = 0.999956

The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics are in unspecified cgs units (and x
10^-6), and are for 1 gram formula weight(?). So I have trying converting
them assuming they are "molar susceptibilities" as well without luck.
Note in many cgs units the ratio B/H is a dimensionless number and = 1.0
for free space. So in some sense they are already "relative". There may be
a factor 4pi as well thrown in. (B= H + 4pi*susc.*H)
Have you managed to convert these H. of C&P. numbers to more familiar units?
(Welcome to the world of techno-babble)
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 13 22:30:22 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: passive maglev
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At 02:12 PM 8/13/99 -0700, Bill wrote:
>
>The diamagnetic levitator was recently in Sci. News and Nature. Check out
>these sites: 
>
>  Diamagnetic Levitator (graphite, no spin, no batteries!)
>  http://lahr.org/john-jan/maglev/maglev.html
>
>  SCITOYS: levitator (bismuth,  w/lots of photos)
>  http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html
Help, my computer doesn't like this page. I get a general protection fault
(netscape) usually at 0% of a 95k file, but every time before getting info.
displayed.
Can someone give a description?
Thanks,
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 00:44:22 1999
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From: "David Callaghan" <DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk>
To: <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: 6Khz. Inverter for Y2K
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:39:19 +0100
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Hi Bruce

6kHz would probably not be the most efficient frequency for the actual
inverter stage.
Higher frequencies would enable you to make a smaller device.

You would probably be better off buying a commercial inverter, and modifying
the output
stage if you require 6kHz output.  6kHz would probably be useless for TV's,
clock's etc.  Also a 6kHz supply may trash mains input filters on some
devices (such as Sony TV's).

If you still want to design your own, buy a MOSFET H-Bridge with integral
logic level drivers and drive this using a PIC or similar Microcontroller
with PWM output, and feed-back the output voltage to control the PWM.  Using
a H-Bridge you can effectively double the DC supply voltage across the input
side of your output transformer.


Best regards

David Callaghan


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
>The first product that I would like to introduce is a
>6KHz. power inverter that is run on storage batteries.
>The batteries can be charged by any number of alternative
>energy systems now available.

<SNIP>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 06:17:29 1999
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Message-Id: <199908141316.PAA14174@irene.ctv.es>
From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" <vramos@ctv.es>
To: "David Callaghan" <DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk>,
        <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: 6Khz. Inverter for Y2K
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:54:55 +0200
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Hi all,
Well but we use 50 Hz in Europe...
Maybe only the USA will enjoy this ?
Are the USA powered by 117V by MATRIX?
We use 220V in Europe!
(only a joke)
Vicente.


----------
> De: David Callaghan <DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk>
> A: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
> Asunto: Re: 6Khz. Inverter for Y2K
> Fecha: viernes 14 de agosto de 1998 9:39
> 
> Hi Bruce
> 
> 6kHz would probably not be the most efficient frequency for the actual
> inverter stage.
> Higher frequencies would enable you to make a smaller device.
> 
> You would probably be better off buying a commercial inverter, and
modifying
> the output
> stage if you require 6kHz output.  6kHz would probably be useless for
TV's,
> clock's etc.  Also a 6kHz supply may trash mains input filters on some
> devices (such as Sony TV's).
> 
> If you still want to design your own, buy a MOSFET H-Bridge with integral
> logic level drivers and drive this using a PIC or similar Microcontroller
> with PWM output, and feed-back the output voltage to control the PWM. 
Using
> a H-Bridge you can effectively double the DC supply voltage across the
input
> side of your output transformer.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> David Callaghan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
> >The first product that I would like to introduce is a
> >6KHz. power inverter that is run on storage batteries.
> >The batteries can be charged by any number of alternative
> >energy systems now available.
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 09:29:00 1999
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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:35:10 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Power Technologies
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Vicente,

Good point... A 5KHz. will be manuafactured
for Europe or any other countries that will
require 50Hz. We can also tyler the voltage
output too. Either way there is still a 
1:100 frequency ratio.


     -Bruce A. Perreault



Vicente Jose Ramos wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Well but we use 50 Hz in Europe...
> Maybe only the USA will enjoy this ?
> Are the USA powered by 117V by MATRIX?
> We use 220V in Europe!
> (only a joke)
> Vicente.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 09:42:30 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Super Batteries
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:48:36 -0400
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The Israel Institute of Technology just announced that they have
successfully replaced the manganese dioxide cathode on a regular alkaline
battery, with Iron(IV), which they are calling Super Iron.  Evidently, of
the two electrodes zinc (anode) and manganese dioxide (cathode) in a normal
caustic cell battery, the manganese dioxide dries up or is used up first.
The Iron (IV) is a chemically unstable form of Iron and was never tried
because it turns to rust within a few minutes of coming in contact with most
liquids or air, however in a caustic solution, the Iron (IV) is stabilized
and becomes Super Iron.  This gives the same battery a 50% more useable
lifetime.  Interestingly enough, the lead researcher's name is Stuart Licht,
German for light.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 11:40:16 1999
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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:46:28 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Michael,

I have too laugh because my radiant cells have relied on this
of iron since 1996. If anyone has bothered to carry out my
process for themselves as outlined in my research manual then 
this would be crystal clear to them among other facts that
have not been put into print. 

http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/manual.pdf

You see, all the heavy metals leached out of the ore are precipitated
out. There is a heavy concentration of iron in the brown powder. This
can easily be seen from the fact that this powder is attracted to a
magnet. There are a few things that I have not made public about my
brown powder. I have not hidden anything... one only has to carry out 
the process as I have outlined and the facts will present themselves. 

However, I find it necessary to point out certain unprinted facts as 
these "credible" mega funded research facilities announce their new
discoveries. If anyone of you would reproduce my cells then all aspects
of my radiant energy cells would become evident.


        Sincerely, Bruce A. Perreault



Michael T Huffman wrote:
> 
> The Israel Institute of Technology just announced that they have
> successfully replaced the manganese dioxide cathode on a regular alkaline
> battery, with Iron(IV), which they are calling Super Iron.  Evidently, of
> the two electrodes zinc (anode) and manganese dioxide (cathode) in a normal
> caustic cell battery, the manganese dioxide dries up or is used up first.
> The Iron (IV) is a chemically unstable form of Iron and was never tried
> because it turns to rust within a few minutes of coming in contact with most
> liquids or air, however in a caustic solution, the Iron (IV) is stabilized
> and becomes Super Iron.  This gives the same battery a 50% more useable
> lifetime.  Interestingly enough, the lead researcher's name is Stuart Licht,
> German for light.
> 
> Knuke
> 
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 16:03:33 1999
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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Ted Gondert wrote:
> 
> Exactly what laws of electricity allow a light bulb to run 4 times
> longer from 6 kHz derived from a battery and inverter than powered
> directly from the battery? Do you know the definition of ROOT MEAN
> SQUARE? That is the equivalent power from AC as compared to steady state
> DC. There are Pulse Width Modulators used to power incandescent lamps
> from batteries, but they work on principle of regulating the effective
> voltage of the battery to proper voltage for lamp from higher voltage
> with little loss in the switching circuit. Sold for spelunkers.


I believe that the efficiency is due to the "skin effect."
The traveling current from battery to load would not be wasted
via wire resistance, therefore no heat waste from source to
loads. In fact, the wires are cool to the touch.


> 
> Besides 6 kHz might be rejected by input filters on electronic equipment
> made for 60 Hz.


I agree, in fact, this was Don Smith's problem with his circuit.
As far as I know he has a solution for this problem. At this frequency 
Moray had to use specially wound motors. These motors were very high
r.p.m. and extremely efficient. Special bearings has to be designed for
these motors. Heating a hot-plate or iron is no problem with this
frequency,
warm-up time is almost instant.


      -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 14 21:10:45 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
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Hi Rex and all,
At 01:23 PM 8/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive a
>green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>
>For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm

I tried this with a copper and (I think) tin plate separated by a plastic
film, the clear type many food products are wrapped in: "cellophane". They
were clamped by 2 rectangular magnets and, in addition, a wood clamp. I
could measure up to about 30mV (copper +), it varies with time. It seems
not to be affected by the direction of the earth's magnetic field, but is
by movement or my holding it (not touching any metallic part) or just
proximity to my hand.

With the 3V range of my DVM, it discharges within a 10's of seconds with a
1 uF capacitor in parallel, like Stefan found. With the lowest 300mV range
it actually charges to about -200mV. I tested this direct input range, and
the DVM appears to have a input bias current. With the leads opened
circuited, it takes a few minutes, with the 1uF low leakage capacitor it
takes several hours.
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 10:01:29 1999
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I saw an ad for this in my local paper. Looks like they are located a
few miles from me. I was wondering if any of you have heard of this
before. Take a look....they even have a picture at the bottom of their
page.

http://fueless.engine.bizpage.net/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 10:19:31 1999
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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: passive maglev
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On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:

> >  http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html
> Help, my computer doesn't like this page. I get a general protection fault
> (netscape) usually at 0% of a 95k file, but every time before getting info.
> displayed.

Huh.  The file is short, but it has lots of GIF graphics.  Maybe it's
bailing out before it displays the photos.  The newer netscape should
display the file BEFORE the photos start appearing.

The text version is below.

I tried this, but in my wisdom I tried pouring the melted bismuth onto a
piece of thick plexiglas in order to form a flat, polished surface.  No
dice.  At that temperature the acrylic outgasses fiercely.  I got a flat,
polished SPONGE made of bismuth.  Thick glass should work in producing a
mirror-finish surface.  Or, just do as this author suggests, and pour the
metal into the bottom of an upside-down cola can (and maybe skim off the
slag to make a surface that looks like shining mercury.) 




http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/suspension.html

   Chapter 1
   
   Experimenting with magnetorheological fluids.
          
   Suspending a magnet in mid-air.
          
   Building a Curie-effect heat engine.
          
   Going further:
          
        Superconductors.
                
A magnet in mid-air.

   [levitation_closeup.jpg] Floating in mid-air between two metal plates,
   a tiny magnet bobs and spins in the wind from the viewer's breath. No
   batteries are used, no electromagnets, no supercooled superconducting
   materials, just some easy to obtain materials from local stores.
   [whole_3_quarter.jpg]
   
  Shopping list
  
    1. 12 ceramic ring magnets (Radio Shack)
    2. tiny neodymium-iron-boron magnet (Radio Shack)
    3. 8 inches of 1/4 inch threaded brass rod
    4. 4 brass hex nuts to fit the 1/4 inch rod
    5. 2 brass or nylon washers to fit the brass rod
    6. wooden base (5 inch square, 3/4 inch high)
    7. 6 to 8 inch wooden support, 2 inches square
    8. 5 by 2 inch wooden block, 3/4 inch thick
    9. 1/2 pound of Bismuth (non-toxic bird shot (from a gun shop or
       sporting goods store)
   10. wood glue
   11. 1/4 inch drill bit and drill
   12. large cheap cooking spoon (we will ruin it)
   13. empty aluminum soda can
   14. coarse sandpaper or large metal file
   15. Titebond wood glue (or similar brand)
   16. 5 minute epoxy
       
  Assembly
  
   The heart of the device are the Bismuth plates. These are what make
   the magnetic suspension possible. Bismuth is very similar to lead. It
   is easy to melt, and is as heavy and hard as lead. Because lead is
   toxic and bismuth is not (it is the active ingredient in the
   Pepto-Bismol medicine for upset stomach), it is used in
   environmentally safe bird shot for hunters. It is in this form that it
   is most easily found at gun shops and sporting goods stores. It can
   also be ordered on the Internet from
   Precision Reloading. Bismuth is also used in some fishing lures as a
   replacement for lead. This toy uses bismuth because of its special
   magnetic properties.
   
  Melting and casting the bismuth
  
   The first step in assembling the levitator is to melt the bismuth and
   pour it into a mold to make the two suspension plates. The mold is the
   bottom of an aluminum soda can, which has a convenient dimple that is
   about the right size. You can use other molds if you wish, such as
   aluminum muffin tins, but remember that they will not be suitable for
   their normal uses afterwards. Don't use something the cook thinks is
   precious. Place about a tablespoon of bismuth shot into the cheap
   spoon purchased for this purpose (don't use the cook's favorite
   spoon). Heat the shot in the spoon over a stove or propane torch until
   it melts. A bit of coathanger wire can be used at this point to rake
   the slag (bismuth oxides) off of the top of the melted metal and onto
   the side of the spoon. [before_melting.jpg] Next, carefully move the
   spoon over to the upside-down aluminum can, and pour the metal into
   the hollow in the bottom of the can. [pouring_into_can.jpg] Let the
   metal cool until it hardens, and the can is cool enough to hold. Only
   after the metal is completely solid can it be held under running water
   and pried out of the mold. [after_pouring_into_can.jpg] Use the
   sandpaper or a metal file to make the top and bottom surface of the
   metal nice and flat. Make another bismuth disk like the first one.
   
  Building the support structure
  
   Drill a 1/4 inch hole in one end of the 2 inch by 5 inch block, about
   3/4 of an inch from the edge. This will accept the brass rod. Glue the
   6 inch 2 by 2 support block to the base. Glue the 2 by 5 block to the
   top of the support block, leaving the end with the hole free. Allow
   the glue to dry. If you are very sparing with the glue, using only a
   very thin layer, the drying will only take a few minutes. I use
   Titebond wood glue.
   
  Assembling the magnet stack
  
   Insert the brass rod into the hole in the wood block. Thread one nut
   onto the rod from above, and two from below. Place a washer onto the
   rod from below, followed by the twelve magnets, and another washer,
   then the final nut. The last nut should be close to the end of the
   rod. Tighten it by hand so as not to shatter the ceramic magnets.
   Don't worry yet about getting the top two nuts tight around the wood
   block, since we will be adjusting the height of the magnet soon.
   [whole_noflash_1.jpg]
   
  Assembling the bismuth plates
  
   The levitator is very sentitive to three things: the distance between
   the two bismuth disks, and the height and strength of the magnet above
   them. The disks are kept apart by three spacers. These can be made
   from three pieces of bismuth shot, although wood or plastic would work
   fine. The spacing between the disks should be very close, leaving only
   a very small space for the magnet. If the distance is too far, the
   magnet will jump from the bottom to the top, or fall from the top to
   the bottom, instead of floating between the disks in mid-air. If the
   magnets are very strong and far away, the distance between the bismuth
   disks can be increased. Using the 5 minute epoxy, glue the three
   pieces of shot to the bottom bismuth disk, as far away from each other
   as possible, in an equilateral triangle. Once the epoxy has completely
   hardened (give it 10 minutes to be safe) start filing or sanding the
   tops of the shot, to make them just tall enough so the tiny neodymium
   magnet can fit with only a little room to spare. If you stack two of
   the tiny magnets together, they should just fit, touching both plates
   (only one magnet will actually be used). [levitation_closeup_2.jpg]
   
  Adjusting the magnets for levitation
  
   Hold the top bismuth disk in one hand, just under the stack of ring
   magnets. Let the small neodymium magnet stick to the bottom of the
   bismuth disk, attracted to the ring magnets. Now set the top bismuth
   disk onto the three supports on top of the bottom disk. The tiny
   magnet may drop to the bottom disk, or it may remain stuck to the top
   disk. If the tiny magnet falls to the bottom disk, lower the ring
   magnet assembly slowly by turning the rod while holding the top nut.
   If the tiny magnet remains stuck to the top disk, raise the ring
   magnet assembly by turning the rod and holding the top nut. At one
   point while turning the rod, the magnet will start to levitate between
   the disks. The levitating disk is very sentitive to slight changes in
   the height of the ring magnet assembly. The rod must be turned very
   slowly to make tiny adjustments to the height of the neodymium magnet.
   
How does it do that?

   The bismuth disks are diamagnetic. This means that they push away from
   a magnet. It doesn't matter whether the north pole of the magnet or
   the south pole is used, the bismuth always pushes away. The
   diamagnetism is very weak, even in bismuth, which has the strongest
   diamagnetism of any metal. This is why the adjustment is so sensitive.
   The ring magnets attract the small neodymium magnet with just exactly
   the right amount of force to counteract gravity. However, if the
   bismuth disks were not there, the tiny magnet would jump up to the
   ring magnets, because as it gets closer, the force is stronger. Right
   at the critical point, where the magnetic pull just barely counteracts
   gravity, the weak diamagnetism of the bismuth is enough to keep the
   magnet from jumping up to the ring magnets, or falling down. The
   magnet thus floats, being repelled by the top and bottom busmuth
   disks.
   
                           [back_to_scitoys.gif] 
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
           Send mail to Simon Quellen Field via leven@scitoys.com


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 10:27:24 1999
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From: alik <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
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Brian Snyder wrote:

> I saw an ad for this in my local paper. Looks like they are located a
> few miles from me. I was wondering if any of you have heard of this
> before. Take a look....they even have a picture at the bottom of their
> page.
>
> http://fueless.engine.bizpage.net/

 The thing on the picture looks like it could be a reincarnation of Papp
noble-gas-mixture engine.
 Note the giant SCRs on heatsinks at each cilynder.

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 13:46:34 1999
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Fueless Engine??
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:42:55 -0400
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>I saw an ad for this in my local paper. Looks like they are located a
>few miles from me. I was wondering if any of you have heard of this
>before. Take a look....they even have a picture at the bottom of their
>page.
>
>http://fueless.engine.bizpage.net/

There's no such thing there.

--
Secretary, Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Member, Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 21:37:41 1999
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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:29:54
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: passive maglev
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At 10:19 AM 8/15/99 -0700, Bill wrote:

>Huh.  The file is short, but it has lots of GIF graphics.  Maybe it's
>bailing out before it displays the photos.  The newer netscape should
>display the file BEFORE the photos start appearing.
>
>The text version is below.
>
>I tried this, but in my wisdom I tried pouring the melted bismuth onto a
>piece of thick plexiglas in order to form a flat, polished surface.  No
>dice.  At that temperature the acrylic outgasses fiercely.  I got a flat,
>polished SPONGE made of bismuth.  Thick glass should work in producing a
>mirror-finish surface.  Or, just do as this author suggests, and pour the
>metal into the bottom of an upside-down cola can (and maybe skim off the
>slag to make a surface that looks like shining mercury.) 
>
Thanks for this info! I don't know what's wrong with my version of netscape...
The sources of bismuth are interesting, I'll have to get some. Wonder what
other non-metallic options there are besides graphite (and
superconductors)? Bismuth is quoted as the highest diamagnetic metal...

The two magnetic fields, (magnet + diamagnetic decrease) made me think of
the "repulsion coil" magnet for nonmagnetic but conducting materials.
Normally an AC coil will repel a conductive ring by eddy current in the
ring generating another magnetic field. (If the sideways motion could be
stabilized, then this could also be levitation.) Now attach the conductive
ring to the electromagnet and bring up another one, disk, etc. Eddy
currents in it will repel it also from the electromagnet, but attract it to
the first ring. If the field strengths are right in space, conductive
objects such as pennies can be picked up. They will get hot too.

Maybe some configuration can be thought of similar to the primary magnet +
diamagnetic decrease?

I noticed that Lindsay publications now sells a 1952 book on this
"repulsion coil" magnet.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 15 21:44:47 1999
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Subject: Re: passive maglev
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Dave -

> The two magnetic fields, (magnet + diamagnetic decrease) made me think of
> the "repulsion coil" magnet for nonmagnetic but conducting materials.

And *you've* made me think of the magnet trick discussed here a while back
with the stack of magnets where the last one on the stack had it's poles
reversed from the rest. You get both attraction and repulsion with a
'neutral' zone when bringing another magnet near. I'm wondering if that idea
can apply to creating a small magnetic well where a magnet (or a small
stack) can hover with stability.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 16 00:52:51 1999
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Or maybe a version of the E.V Gray motor...
>
>> I saw an ad for this in my local paper. Looks like they are located a
>> few miles from me. I was wondering if any of you have heard of this
>> before. Take a look....they even have a picture at the bottom of their
>> page.
>>
>> http://fueless.engine.bizpage.net/
>
> The thing on the picture looks like it could be a reincarnation of Papp
>noble-gas-mixture engine.
> Note the giant SCRs on heatsinks at each cilynder.
>
>Alik S.
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 16 06:20:40 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <ce034807.24e969c8@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:19:04 EDT
Subject: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Dear All,

Now I come back after some weeks of vacation...I am glad to present you a new 
interesting experiment in the advanced propulsion field.

This project is the logical continuation of the ARDA Project based on the 
Biefeld-Brown effect. The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 
it is possible to generate an unidirectional thrust by using an asymmetrical 
flow of the Poynting energy in a capacitor.

During a charging process of a flat capacitor, the Poynting vector ( S=ExH ) 
comes from outside the capacitor towards the wire connections, parallel to 
the surface of the armatures inside the dielectric medium. There is an energy 
flow directly proportional to ExB. This energy is not provided by the wires 
but comes from the surrounding space around the capacitor. ( ref: "The 
Feynman Lectures on Physics : Electromagnetism vol2, Chap: 27-5, fig 27-3" by 
Addison-Wesley Publishing company. )

The main idea is to check if an asymmetrical energy flow during the charging 
process of a flat capacitor is able to generate a thrust.

For more informations and tests results with pictures, diagrams and videos 
see at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft01.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 16 14:40:26 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <4eee2083.24e9deef@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:38:55 EDT
Subject: See "push me pull you" on site!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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See "push me pull you" on web site. First drawing on page.
Thanks, 
Butch LaFonte
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A>  or   http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

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On Sun, 15 Aug 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:

> Thanks for this info! I don't know what's wrong with my version of netscape...
> The sources of bismuth are interesting, I'll have to get some. Wonder what
> other non-metallic options there are besides graphite (and
> superconductors)? Bismuth is quoted as the highest diamagnetic metal...
> 
> The two magnetic fields, (magnet + diamagnetic decrease) made me think of
> the "repulsion coil" magnet for nonmagnetic but conducting materials.

HEY!  PM-assisted inductive repulsion!

If we place some copper foil on the bottom of a small ceramic magnet, and
then we cancel *most* of its weight by placing a larger magnet above it...
then a fairly feeble AC coil placed below the smaller magnet should be
able to up push on the copper foil and lift it *really high*.  AC
inductive repulsion is far stronger than Bismuth diamagnetic repulsion. 
It still needs to plug into the wall, but at least it doesn't need any
fancy feedback system. 

AC inductive levitation normally isn't so great, since it heats up the
levitated metal quite a bit.

Hey, maybe we could even make a TRAIN from this.  Put a battery-powered AC
coil in the train, and also a big magnet.  Lift it with a row of magnets
above, and run a copper rod below it for the AC coil to push against.
Even a really feeble AC coil could lift it a fraction of an inch and make
it glide along.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 06:47:45 1999
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From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990814210648.23d7ec0a@earthlink.net>
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Hi Dave, Rex, and all,

I wonder if the cardboard dielectric was important. 
W. Reich used organic material between two metal plates and claimed that it
"energized". Yes, it's anecdotal, and there's no known mechanism to account
for it's positive action on biological material, but I've often wondered if
absorption of air ions is significantly enhanced with that type of setup.

Colin.

At 09:06 PM 08/14/99, you wrote:
>Hi Rex and all,
>At 01:23 PM 8/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>A milestone in TMB development, constant current output able to drive a
>>green LED. This provided by a new 3 plate design.
>>
>>For update and photo; http://www.atgroup.org/tmb.htm
>
>I tried this with a copper and (I think) tin plate separated by a plastic
>film, the clear type many food products are wrapped in: "cellophane". They
>were clamped by 2 rectangular magnets and, in addition, a wood clamp. I
>could measure up to about 30mV (copper +), it varies with time. It seems
>not to be affected by the direction of the earth's magnetic field, but is
>by movement or my holding it (not touching any metallic part) or just
>proximity to my hand.
>
>With the 3V range of my DVM, it discharges within a 10's of seconds with a
>1 uF capacitor in parallel, like Stefan found. With the lowest 300mV range
>it actually charges to about -200mV. I tested this direct input range, and
>the DVM appears to have a input bias current. With the leads opened
>circuited, it takes a few minutes, with the 1uF low leakage capacitor it
>takes several hours.
>-Dave
>

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Subject: Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Hi Jean-Louis and all,
I am having trouble with your email address.

>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
><JNaudin509@aol.com>

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>550 <JNaudin509@aol.com>... Host unknown (Name server:
air-st.mail.aol.com: host not found)

Welcome back.
Very interesting. Can you give a diagram how you route the fine connecting
wires to the capacitor to give free rotation on the tether? I cannot see
them in your images. Are you trying different shaped capacitors also?

>At 09:14 AM 8/16/99 EDT, you wrote:

>>For more informations and tests results with pictures, diagrams and videos 
>>see at:
>>http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft01.htm
>>
-Dave

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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
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Subject: RE: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:53:11 +0100
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Jean,
I like the idea. There's something there with this flow of energy =
(though Feynman thought the theory screwwy), according to relativity, =
flow of energy is also flow of momentum. Have you tried with a =
dielectric? The electrical dual must exist with inductors and they =
should be easier to work with. If it could be made toroidal, you would =
dispel fringing field reaction forces sckeptics. Surely Tesla has =
something to say on this, Bill Beaty and other Tesla fans should know.
Remi.
-----Original Message-----
From:	Dave Dameron [SMTP:ddameron@earthlink.net]
Sent:	17 August 1999 12:56
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...

Hi Jean-Louis and all,
I am having trouble with your email address.

>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
><JNaudin509@aol.com>

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>550 <JNaudin509@aol.com>... Host unknown (Name server:
air-st.mail.aol.com: host not found)

Welcome back.
Very interesting. Can you give a diagram how you route the fine =
connecting
wires to the capacitor to give free rotation on the tether? I cannot see
them in your images. Are you trying different shaped capacitors also?

>At 09:14 AM 8/16/99 EDT, you wrote:

>>For more informations and tests results with pictures, diagrams and =
videos=20
>>see at:
>>http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft01.htm
>>
-Dave


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 14:00:33 1999
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:01:57 -0700
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Hello everyone (especially if you are from Seattle)

I just found out not long ago that a gentleman whom I only knew by his nickname of "Woody"
at Radar Electric gadget store in Seattle died a few months ago. Woody used to have an array
of radars in his backyard. At least one of those was picking up a substantial fixed radar target
floating above the city about a mile or two from his house (don't know where he lived, been there once).
The thing would go away in winter and come back during summer. I don't think he wanted to
publicize it too much but then it does not matter now I suppose. Its probably better if it does not get
totally forgotten.

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 14:11:56 1999
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From: "Peter Nielsen" <nielsenp@lis.net.au>
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Did anyone download the MFVC pages off atgroup's site before they deleted
it?

If so, could you please forward me a copy. I may have some pertinent
comments to make to the list.

Thanks for your response.

Peter Nielsen

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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:12:09 EDT
Subject: Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Dans un courrier dat du 17/08/99 21:56:17), r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk a crit 
:

> Jean,
>  I like the idea. There's something there with this flow of energy (though 
> Feynman thought the theory screwwy), according to relativity, flow of 
energy 
> is also flow of momentum. Have you tried with a dielectric?

Remi,

Yes, the capacitor uses a plexiglass sheet as dielectric. The most important 
things for increasing significantly the resulting thrust is to use a 
dielectric which have a good relaxation time and also sustain a continuous 
flow of energy inside the dielectric medium, this can be done easily by using 
the leakage current.

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:12:12 EDT
Subject: Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Dans un courrier dat du 17/08/99 21:03:39), ddameron@earthlink.net a crit :

> Very interesting. Can you give a diagram how you route the fine connecting
>  wires to the capacitor to give free rotation on the tether? I cannot see
>  them in your images. Are you trying different shaped capacitors also?

Hi Dave,

The experimental setup used: The flat capacitor has been built with a common 
CD-ROM plastic box ( 125 x142 x 10 mm ) made with plexiglas (as dielectric ( 
thickness = 1mm ). The outside and the inside have been covered by an 
aluminum sheet (120 x 110 mm) . The apparatus has been tethered with nylon 
wire on a specialy balanced equipement. Two thin copper wires have been 
connected at 10 mm distance from the edge of each armature ( one has been 
connected to the zero potential and the other to the 30kV DC High Voltage 
generator ). 

In the picture ( 
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/images/pft1a.jpg) you can see 
the wires connection, as you notice one of the armature is placed in a closed 
bow (the CD box). The most important thing to do is to place the wire 
connections (above and below) near to the same edge of the armature ( at 
about 10mm ). 

Lets me know if you need a detailled picture about my setup.

Best Regards

Jean-Louis Naudin

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>of radars in his backyard. At least one of those was picking up a
substantial fixed radar target
>floating above the city about a mile or two from his house (don't know
where he lived, been there once).
>The thing would go away in winter and come back during summer. I don't
think he wanted to
>publicize it too much but then it does not matter now I suppose. Its
probably better if it does not get
>totally forgotten.


Sorry to hear about this loss.

As for the radar target, I hope you don't mind if I speculate.

I think it was probably a thermal above downtown Seattle, caused by the
urban heat-island effect, and the hot air caused by thousands of air
conditioners running at once. The key to this is that it vanished in winter
and came back with the hot weather.

I read a science article a few months back about Atlanta, Georgia's heat
island being strong enough to actually *create* thunderstorms on certain
days.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 15:37:46 1999
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:37:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: Seattle radar anomaly
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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On Tue, 17 Aug 1999, alik wrote:

> Hello everyone (especially if you are from Seattle)
> 
> I just found out not long ago that a gentleman whom I only knew by his nickname of "Woody"
> at Radar Electric gadget store in Seattle died a few months ago. Woody used to have an array
> of radars in his backyard. At least one of those was picking up a substantial fixed radar target
> floating above the city about a mile or two from his house (don't know where he lived, been there once).
> The thing would go away in winter and come back during summer. I don't think he wanted to
> publicize it too much but then it does not matter now I suppose. Its probably better if it does not get
> totally forgotten.
> 
> Alik S.
> 

My first thought on this is some sort of ducting into the "heat dome" that 
sits above many cities. Did he ever mention what kind of signal he was 
receiving?  Did it have any sort of modulation on it?

Zack Widup


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 17:24:53 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: passive maglev
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Hi Bill and all,
At 06:58 PM 8/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>HEY!  PM-assisted inductive repulsion!
>
>If we place some copper foil on the bottom of a small ceramic magnet, and
>then we cancel *most* of its weight by placing a larger magnet above it...
>then a fairly feeble AC coil placed below the smaller magnet should be
>able to up push on the copper foil and lift it *really high*.  AC
>inductive repulsion is far stronger than Bismuth diamagnetic repulsion. 
>It still needs to plug into the wall, but at least it doesn't need any
>fancy feedback system. 
>
So far no go. The biggest problem seems to be the AC attraction/repulsion
of the small ceramic magnet to the AC electromagnet. The copper isn't
nearly enough an eddy current magnetic shield. It vibrates and jumps around
strongly (60Hz), that is until it finally gets an added push and jumps up
to the larger magnet.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:21:39 1999
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:22:56 -0400
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Re thermal idea

His house was nowhere near downtown. What I saw was a 
'blob' visible on X-band radar that used an old B-52 
attack radar scanner/antenna with limited elevation control. The target
was detectable only at certain elevation angles.

I doubt if the radar was capable of detecting air flow etc
as far as I know it had no doppler processing, MTI or any 
other semi-advanced features.

Tom Bearden mentions a fixed target over White Sands that
was stable enough to calibrate range instrumentation radar.
(see Excalibur Briefing)

I spoke with Woody's friend and it sounds like all his 
gadgets were disposed of. Maybe the guys at Radar Electric
(what a coincidence) know something else.

If you go to RE and ask them about it maybe try to go about
it in a discrete kind of way so they won't hate me there for
the next decade :-) Its kind of a delicate deal between 
Woody's privacy and his work being totally lost.

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 18:23:30 1999
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Message-Id: <199908180123.VAA27090@fh105.infi.net>
From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <stk@sunherald.infi.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: 4046 Phase locked loop
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:18:18 -0500
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Hello,

If anyone here has any experience working with 4046 PLL's, and would be
willing to help me troubleshoot one, contact me offline. Any assistance
would be greatly appreciated.

Kyle R. Mcallister

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 19:31:51 1999
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From: "S. Boster" <scott@spectrapure.com>
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Subject: Re: Seattle radar anomaly
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Here's the other side of that phenomenon: in Phoenix in the summertime, the
heat island effect keeps approaching thunderstorms from invading the metro
area. It looks like a clear-air "football" with surrounding clouds on the
weather maps.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Marlin <rmarlin@network-one.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Seattle radar anomaly



>I think it was probably a thermal above downtown Seattle, caused by the
>urban heat-island effect, and the hot air caused by thousands of air
>conditioners running at once. The key to this is that it vanished in winter
>and came back with the hot weather.
>
>I read a science article a few months back about Atlanta, Georgia's heat
>island being strong enough to actually *create* thunderstorms on certain
>days.
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 21:32:53 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Seattle radar anomaly
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:38:54 -0400
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Ahoy!

I've actually met Woody, but we never discussed this.  Sorry to hear that he
is gone.  You might want to check out Bill Beaty's website and get the
e-mail address for the Seattle Weird Science group.  Better yet, I'll post
the message there myself.  Most of them probably knew Woody, too.  That shop
has been there for ever.  Those guys in that science group have some pretty
good instruments of ALL kinds, too.

I lived just off Broadway on Capital Hill, and would roll down to the shop
for parts in the summer.  The walk back up was a killer.  What makes me
think that it might not be a thermal, is the fact that Seattle rarely has a
hot summer, and being so close to the water, there is usually a good breeze.
It rains almost 2/3rds of the time, but in spite of that, I loved that town.

Knuke

  
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 23:22:25 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Hi all, I too have returned after an abscence. I could not resist sending
this letter from another list that gives great consideration to any ideas of
using J Naudin test results for space vehicle. According to this seemingly
well proficient author from the Tesla Coil Builders of Richmond Virginia
(former capital of CSA) the effects you have noted will not occur in a
vacuum.

Please read the following letter and note my questions afterward.

Displacement Currents

It is interesting to note that in Maxwell's day he
  invented the
  displacement current on a whim as a logical and common
  sense item, even
  though there is absolutely no conductive item in a
  capacitor's
  dielectric to support the classic current seen in wires
  and metallic
  conductors.  It also made his equations a full featured
  set.  This
  current is found in all capacitor dielectrics,
  according to theory.
  However, in a vacuum dielectric capacitor, it appears
  to generate no
  magnetic field between the plates!!!!

  This was most troubling to Maxwell and he wrote to
  several scientifc
  friends that he hoped some proof of exisitance of the
  vacuum
  displacement current's demanded magnetic field might be
  found in his
  lifetime.  It was not to be done however.  As recently
  as 1994 Dr. D.F.
  Bartlett of the Univ of Colorado made the attempt using
  an ultra
  sensitive SQUID between two plates of a flat plate
  capacitor in vacuo.
  .
   He found 'zippo' mag field during charge or discharge.
   (this is a
  though experiment as the wires to the cap and metallic
  plate elements
  will create a field as we all know.)  Being a lock step
  physicist he
  struggled for an explanation in his paper.  Ortherwise
  all sorts of
  skeletons come out of the closet...(action at a
  distance, etc)   He went
  into an arcane mathematical diatribe using the now, for
  the most part,
  disgarded Amperian current force laws to say that the
  circuit currents
  in their flow and ebb create canceling mag fields via
  the plates.  (most
  folks cleave only unto the lorentz law which is in
  direct conflict with
  ampere's old law.)  The Lorentz laws somehow don't
  generate canceling
  fields....Gee, sure wish they did.

  Maxwell could see logical delema this in his own life
  time and was
  adverse to using the Amperian current laws as they
  produce forces not in
  line with his theory.  It vexed him mightily and to his
  dying day he was
  most concerned about the demanded, but seemingly
  missing magnetic field
  in the interplate vacuum dielectric.

  So by all means, read up on the displacement current. 
  It is dished out
  in huge helpings to all us engineers.  Fortunately we
  don't need to fret
  about mag fields inside our dielectrics so we never
  "auto-generate" the
  question.  Physicsists, however, are not so lucky.

  While reading up on the THEORY it might be wise to heed
  the words of
  Sir Frances Bacon from his essay on
  studies.................
  ."Read not to contradict or confute, nor to believe and
  take for
  granted,  nor to find talk and discourse, but to weigh
  and consider".

  Richard Hull, TCBOR

I have often seen the terms Poynting flow vector and Lorentz force law
seemingly used interchangingly and wondered what the difference was. Why
should they have two names for the same thing,which seems to happen in
physics for some of us who are not so enlightened. However a visit to J
Naudins site of this experiment seemed to show me this difference. The first
thing I wondered about was where did the magnetic field come from? Of course
it must be a reaction to the "displacement current" to produce that magnetic
field as noted in the above letter. Then of course a lorentz force reaction
can take place between these two things.
Can anyone tell me if this self imposed lorentz force reaction is a
definition of Poynting force vector?

Also if anyone can elaborate on R. Hulls statement that the lorentz force
law is in conflict with Amperian current force laws? I am in the dark here.

Sincerly trying to eliminate my confusion,
Harvey D Norris






________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 17 23:38:08 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <dad1b052.24ebae99@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 02:37:13 EDT
Subject: A Pressure Fuelless Engine
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<< Hi folks, 
I came a cross this interesting website, inventor says:

First of all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Waclaw Florczyk, I 
live in Swidnica, Poland, at
ul. Dluga 31 m.8. My phone number is +48 74 51-29-46. 

I am looking for an investor who would help me make the prototype of a 
pressure fuelless engine
which I have invented. 

<A 
HREF="http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm">http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm
</A>
Here is the address, see what you'll think of this.

Mehmet.>>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 00:08:35 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A Pressure Fuelless Engine
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:08:12 PDT
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Ya... is fuel less....except for pressure???? what pressure ... why air of 
course!!! hold on ..... what air pressure... isn't air pressure a fuel???? 
or is there some sorce of free air pressure I have overlooked???
hummmmm?????
Timothy....

><< Hi folks,
>I came a cross this interesting website, inventor says:
>
>First of all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Waclaw Florczyk, 
>I
>live in Swidnica, Poland, at
>ul. Dluga 31 m.8. My phone number is +48 74 51-29-46.
>
>I am looking for an investor who would help me make the prototype of a
>pressure fuelless engine
>which I have invented.
>
><A
>HREF="http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm">http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm
></A>
>Here is the address, see what you'll think of this.
>
>Mehmet.>>
>
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 00:17:41 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Displacement Currents
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:16:55 PDT
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While on this subject I am once again  motivated to repeat myself, the
subject of this discourse is how an electrical current obtained through
lorentz force law can be viewed as a gyroscopic precession. Extracted from
Keelynet 3/31/99 RE: The erroneous thinking of cold fusion.
http://www.keelynet.com/interact/Arc_1_99-4_99/00000760.htm

Electric current itself might be explained as a gyroscopic
precession in some circumstances. We know that an electric field will cause
electrons to bouce from atom to atom in conductive materials establishing a
drift velocity of electrons that we macroscopically observe as current. If
the electric field is applied to dielectrics it stretches the molecule and
in
the small instant of time where this occurs a net charge movement or
"displacement current" exists. To maximize this displacement current/vs
time
effect one only needs to allow the electric field to rapidly change
polarity. Now we are told this may allow the dielectric molecules to
spin,and in physics of two dimensions we find that when spin occurs usually
part of the energy that would have enabled straight line or translational
movement to occur gets transferred into rotational inertia or angular
momentum.
But we live in a 3 dimensional world so when we ask how these dipoles could
spin in an electric field we must say the spin occurs with 360 degrees of
rotational freedom with respect to that of the electric field. Now if
another variable is brought into the picture, such as a magnetic field at
right angles to the electric, our laws predict that the magnetic field will
also exert a force in direct proportion to the volume of displacement
current. How will this force act? It acts at right angles to the electric
field; and it also acts at right angles to the magnetic. This is an exact
analogy to the actions of gyroscopic precession; when a right angle force
is
applied to a rotation it causes a third right angle force to act.
Essentially these 360 degrees of rotational freedom are then reduced to one
correct way to spin; the magnetic field will exert a force on all the
incorrect spins to make them spin all one way and we might say the magnetic
field acts to cohere all the spins in 2 dimensions,eliminating the 360
degrees of rotational freedom.
What I have described is an adaptation of the Lorentz force law to
displacement currents.Thus if this effect is proven the currents caused by
the Lorentz force in this example are nothing more than the effect of
gyroscopic 
precession.But the problem becomes the fact that simple spin will not cause
a current since we are dealing with a dielectric material to begin with.
However what MIGHT occur is a special case where the dielectric might act
in
a diodic fashion to allow current conduction only at this dimensional
direction.
So many other factors are present that this is only a crude analogy to
get one to think about further possible modifications.In the first place
the
molecules are not just sitting there experiencing gyroscopic spin
modifications, but are actually undergoing translational movement through
space resulting in random molecular bombardments. However if part of this
linear momentum in converted into rotational momentum as is done in simple
2-d physics demonstrations of rolling cylinders; then the amount of random
collisions per unit time will be reduced because of the reduced amount of
translational movement that consequently occurs per unit time. So what is
the greatest problem of electrolysis? It is EXACTLY these random collisions
that express themselves as unwanted heat that perhaps the cold fusion
scientists are actually hoping to find:when maybe they should be
concentrating on ways to secure the exact opposite effect, to prevent this
heat from occurring in the first place. 




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 00:30:23 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
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Subject: RE: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:29:56 +0100
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Harvey and all,
The displacement current is not a whim. The magnetic fields are there. =
See Feynman vol.2 section 18-2 or 'page' 18-3 (better to number pages =
sequentiality Prof. Feynman?). See section 27 and on. In section 27-5 =
page 27-8 he talks about the absurdity of the Poynting vector citing the =
apparent flow of energy around around a stationary magnet and point =
charge. This really needs to be looked at, the whole derivation of S. =
Why can't we take it at face value??? Is there really free energy here - =
an open system. Maybe one taps it with Naudlin type devices and also =
accrues reactionless motion. Keep an open mind, the experiment seems =
good. It needs improving to say what it isn't and theory to fit numbers =
to experimental data.

I shall be re-reading that section closely.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Harvey Norris [SMTP:tesla4@excite.com]
Sent:	18 August 1999 07:22
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...

Hi all, I too have returned after an abscence. I could not resist =
sending
this letter from another list that gives great consideration to any =
ideas of
using J Naudin test results for space vehicle. According to this =
seemingly
well proficient author from the Tesla Coil Builders of Richmond Virginia
(former capital of CSA) the effects you have noted will not occur in a
vacuum.

Please read the following letter and note my questions afterward.

Displacement Currents

It is interesting to note that in Maxwell's day he
  invented the
  displacement current on a whim as a logical and common
  sense item, even
  though there is absolutely no conductive item in a
  capacitor's
  dielectric to support the classic current seen in wires
  and metallic
  conductors.  It also made his equations a full featured
  set.  This
  current is found in all capacitor dielectrics,
  according to theory.
  However, in a vacuum dielectric capacitor, it appears
  to generate no
  magnetic field between the plates!!!!

  This was most troubling to Maxwell and he wrote to
  several scientifc
  friends that he hoped some proof of exisitance of the
  vacuum
  displacement current's demanded magnetic field might be
  found in his
  lifetime.  It was not to be done however.  As recently
  as 1994 Dr. D.F.
  Bartlett of the Univ of Colorado made the attempt using
  an ultra
  sensitive SQUID between two plates of a flat plate
  capacitor in vacuo.
  .
   He found 'zippo' mag field during charge or discharge.
   (this is a
  though experiment as the wires to the cap and metallic
  plate elements
  will create a field as we all know.)  Being a lock step
  physicist he
  struggled for an explanation in his paper.  Ortherwise
  all sorts of
  skeletons come out of the closet...(action at a
  distance, etc)   He went
  into an arcane mathematical diatribe using the now, for
  the most part,
  disgarded Amperian current force laws to say that the
  circuit currents
  in their flow and ebb create canceling mag fields via
  the plates.  (most
  folks cleave only unto the lorentz law which is in
  direct conflict with
  ampere's old law.)  The Lorentz laws somehow don't
  generate canceling
  fields....Gee, sure wish they did.

  Maxwell could see logical delema this in his own life
  time and was
  adverse to using the Amperian current laws as they
  produce forces not in
  line with his theory.  It vexed him mightily and to his
  dying day he was
  most concerned about the demanded, but seemingly
  missing magnetic field
  in the interplate vacuum dielectric.

  So by all means, read up on the displacement current.=20
  It is dished out
  in huge helpings to all us engineers.  Fortunately we
  don't need to fret
  about mag fields inside our dielectrics so we never
  "auto-generate" the
  question.  Physicsists, however, are not so lucky.

  While reading up on the THEORY it might be wise to heed
  the words of
  Sir Frances Bacon from his essay on
  studies.................
  ."Read not to contradict or confute, nor to believe and
  take for
  granted,  nor to find talk and discourse, but to weigh
  and consider".

  Richard Hull, TCBOR

I have often seen the terms Poynting flow vector and Lorentz force law
seemingly used interchangingly and wondered what the difference was. Why
should they have two names for the same thing,which seems to happen in
physics for some of us who are not so enlightened. However a visit to J
Naudins site of this experiment seemed to show me this difference. The =
first
thing I wondered about was where did the magnetic field come from? Of =
course
it must be a reaction to the "displacement current" to produce that =
magnetic
field as noted in the above letter. Then of course a lorentz force =
reaction
can take place between these two things.
Can anyone tell me if this self imposed lorentz force reaction is a
definition of Poynting force vector?

Also if anyone can elaborate on R. Hulls statement that the lorentz =
force
law is in conflict with Amperian current force laws? I am in the dark =
here.

Sincerly trying to eliminate my confusion,
Harvey D Norris






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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 00:34:24 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A Pressure Fuelless Engine
Message-Id: <934961642.25926.235@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:34:02 PDT
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:08:12 PDT, Timothy Flytcher wrote:

> Ya... is fuel less....except for pressure???? what pressure ... why air of

> course!!! hold on ..... what air pressure... isn't air pressure a fuel????

> or is there some sorce of free air pressure I have overlooked???
> hummmmm?????
> Timothy....
> 
> ><< Hi folks,
> >I came a cross this interesting website, inventor says:
> >
> >First of all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Waclaw
Florczyk, 
> >I
> >live in Swidnica, Poland, at
> >ul. Dluga 31 m.8. My phone number is +48 74 51-29-46.
> >
> >I am looking for an investor who would help me make the prototype of a
> >pressure fuelless engine
> >which I have invented.
> >
> ><A
>
>HREF="http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm">http://www.florczyk.com/english.
htm
> ></A>
> >Here is the address, see what you'll think of this.

Huh? No polish jokes here?
Why not just hook it up to the water faucet and utilize  the pressure of the
water co? Or do they have those things? The only thing I can find is error
404, cannot access site HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 00:55:54 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: RE: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
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Remi, you jump the gun.
First you ask J Naudin if dielectric is used.
He replies yes.
This should have been apparent at first viewing of his site, it was apparent
to me ...
J Naudin must have thought he was repeating himself.
Before I thought to make a comment on this I made sure I had viewed his
premise in its entirety. Otherwise I might have been drinking too much and
went off half cocked and said that isnt even possible what you are doing. In
fact that would have been my opinion if I hadnt read on to see that
apparently he has experimentally verified this supposed weak effect, and he
of course used a classical physics text as verification of the principle.

How that principle is interpreted by others is what is at issue here. J
Naudin has done more than most, he has proved the effect at 30 KV charge
separation across plexiglass,(a dielectric). I merely shot a hole in a
further application of his theory as regards to using a vacuum application,
something he should know about if he doesnt already.

Sincere in the truth
HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 01:15:43 1999
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Message-ID: <19990818081522.16197.qmail@hotmail.com>
X-Originating-IP: [208.255.80.68]
From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A Pressure Fuelless Engine
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:15:20 PDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Huh? No polish jokes here?
>Why not just hook it up to the water faucet and utilize  the pressure of 
>the
>water co? Or do they have those things?

yes we have those things here... but here is california... land of the 
$200.00 water bills!!!! no joke!!! and that's with only a postage stamp of a 
yard!!!!

Timothy...


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 02:24:49 1999
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Hi Harvey and all,

According to this seemingly
>well proficient author from the Tesla Coil Builders of Richmond =
Virginia
>(former capital of CSA) the effects you have noted will not occur in a
>vacuum.

Without displacement current Hertzian waves will not occur in a vacuum
either.
>
>Please read the following letter and note my questions afterward.
>
>Displacement Currents

<snip>

>  However, in a vacuum dielectric capacitor, it appears
>  to generate no
>  magnetic field between the plates!!!!

It does.
>
>  This was most troubling to Maxwell and he wrote to
>  several scientifc
>  friends that he hoped some proof of exisitance of the
>  vacuum
>  displacement current's demanded magnetic field might be
>  found in his
>  lifetime.  It was not to be done however.

The B field from a slowly charging cap is very very hard to detect.

As recently
>  as 1994 Dr. D.F.
>  Bartlett of the Univ of Colorado made the attempt using
>  an ultra
>  sensitive SQUID between two plates of a flat plate
>  capacitor in vacuo.
>  .
>   He found 'zippo' mag field during charge or discharge.

Completely false.

>   (this is a
>  though experiment as the wires to the cap and metallic
>  plate elements
>  will create a field as we all know.)  Being a lock step
>  physicist he
>  struggled for an explanation in his paper.  Ortherwise
>  all sorts of
>  skeletons come out of the closet...(action at a
>  distance, etc)   He went
>  into an arcane mathematical diatribe using the now, for
>  the most part,
>  disgarded Amperian current force laws to say that the
>  circuit currents
>  in their flow and ebb create canceling mag fields via
>  the plates.

Unfortunately this is all totally inaccurate. Bartlett did in fact find =
the
magnetic field of the displacement current in a number of careful
experiments and stated so without any more mumbo jumbo than is required =
to
be published :-)
I have before me one of his papers "Measuring Maxwell's Displacement =
Current
Inside A Capacitor" Phys. Rev. Let. V.55 N.1 (1985) which states in the
abstract, "We have measured the magnetic field directly inside a thin
circular, parallel plate-plate capacitor as it is being charged.  We =
find
that the field varies linearly with the distance from the axis, as is to =
be
expected if a uniform displacement current flows between the plates.  =
The
measured slope of B vs. R agrees with predictions to within 5%".

Later papers I don't have handy are even more careful and show the B =
field
of D even more clearly.

This does NOT mean I subscribe to the standard model. However ALL the =
facts,
both the displacement current of classical Maxwell, and the Ampere =
forces of
Graneau and others, must be accounted for.

To editorialize, the only reasonable explanation that accounts for all
results is that space itself contains a store of "extra" field =
momentum...
which may be tapped. Space is spinning.


>Also if anyone can elaborate on R. Hulls statement that the lorentz =
force
>law is in conflict with Amperian current force laws? I am in the dark =
here.

Yes, this relates to the forces between the current in different parts =
of
closed and open circuits.  The Lorentz force law and Ampere force law =
are
identical in the case of a CLOSED circuit, however it has been shown
convincingly by Graneau that the Lorentz law, which violates "action and
reaction" is in fact false for open circuits. An example is the recoil =
in a
railgun. The Lorentz law predicts that the electrified rails of a =
railgun
will not feel mechanical reaction forces from the projectile-- the =
reaction
forces are presumed to be absorbed by field momentum. The Ampere law
accurately predicts that the rails will feel equal forces to the =
projectile.
The entire Lorentz law is invalidated by a single picture of a buckled =
rail
gun.

But the Ampere law is only applicable between and in conductors.

In my opinion both laws are right part of the time and therefore neither =
is
really true.
>
>Sincerly trying to eliminate my confusion,

Hope this helped :-)

Fred


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Harvey and all,<BR><BR>According to this seemingly<BR>&gt;well=20
proficient author from the Tesla Coil Builders of Richmond=20
Virginia<BR>&gt;(former capital of CSA) the effects you have noted will =
not=20
occur in a<BR>&gt;vacuum.<BR><BR>Without displacement current Hertzian =
waves=20
will not occur in a vacuum<BR>either.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Please read the =
following=20
letter and note my questions afterward.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Displacement=20
Currents<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; However, in a vacuum =
dielectric=20
capacitor, it appears<BR>&gt;&nbsp; to generate no<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
magnetic field=20
between the plates!!!!<BR><BR>It does.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; This was =
most=20
troubling to Maxwell and he wrote to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; several=20
scientifc<BR>&gt;&nbsp; friends that he hoped some proof of exisitance =
of=20
the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; vacuum<BR>&gt;&nbsp; displacement current's demanded =
magnetic=20
field might be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; found in his<BR>&gt;&nbsp; lifetime.&nbsp; =
It was=20
not to be done however.<BR><BR>The B field from a slowly charging cap is =
very=20
very hard to detect.<BR><BR>As recently<BR>&gt;&nbsp; as 1994 Dr.=20
D.F.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Bartlett of the Univ of Colorado made the attempt=20
using<BR>&gt;&nbsp; an ultra<BR>&gt;&nbsp; sensitive SQUID between two =
plates of=20
a flat plate<BR>&gt;&nbsp; capacitor in vacuo.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; He found 'zippo' mag field during charge or=20
discharge.<BR><BR>Completely false.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; (this is=20
a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; though experiment as the wires to the cap and=20
metallic<BR>&gt;&nbsp; plate elements<BR>&gt;&nbsp; will create a field =
as we=20
all know.)&nbsp; Being a lock step<BR>&gt;&nbsp; physicist =
he<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
struggled for an explanation in his paper.&nbsp; =
Ortherwise<BR>&gt;&nbsp; all=20
sorts of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; skeletons come out of the closet...(action at=20
a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; distance, etc)&nbsp;&nbsp; He went<BR>&gt;&nbsp; into an =
arcane=20
mathematical diatribe using the now, for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the most=20
part,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; disgarded Amperian current force laws to say that=20
the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; circuit currents<BR>&gt;&nbsp; in their flow and ebb =
create=20
canceling mag fields via<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the plates.<BR><BR>Unfortunately =
this is=20
all totally inaccurate. Bartlett did in fact find the<BR>magnetic field =
of the=20
displacement current in a number of careful<BR>experiments and stated so =
without=20
any more mumbo jumbo than is required to<BR>be published :-)<BR>I have =
before me=20
one of his papers &quot;Measuring Maxwell's Displacement =
Current<BR>Inside A=20
Capacitor&quot; Phys. Rev. Let. V.55 N.1 (1985) which states in =
the<BR>abstract,=20
&quot;We have measured the magnetic field directly inside a =
thin<BR>circular,=20
parallel plate-plate capacitor as it is being charged.&nbsp; We =
find<BR>that the=20
field varies linearly with the distance from the axis, as is to =
be<BR>expected=20
if a uniform displacement current flows between the plates.&nbsp;=20
The<BR>measured slope of B vs. R agrees with predictions to within=20
5%&quot;.<BR><BR>Later papers I don't have handy are even more careful =
and show=20
the B field<BR>of D even more clearly.<BR><BR>This does NOT mean I =
subscribe to=20
the standard model. However ALL the facts,<BR>both the displacement =
current of=20
classical Maxwell, and the Ampere forces of<BR>Graneau and others, must =
be=20
accounted for.<BR><BR>To editorialize, the only reasonable explanation =
that=20
accounts for all<BR>results is that space itself contains a store of=20
&quot;extra&quot; field momentum...<BR>which may be tapped. Space is=20
spinning.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Also if anyone can elaborate on R. Hulls =
statement that=20
the lorentz force<BR>&gt;law is in conflict with Amperian current force =
laws? I=20
am in the dark here.<BR><BR>Yes, this relates to the forces between the =
current=20
in different parts of<BR>closed and open circuits.&nbsp; The Lorentz =
force law=20
and Ampere force law are<BR>identical in the case of a CLOSED circuit, =
however=20
it has been shown<BR>convincingly by Graneau that the Lorentz law, which =

violates &quot;action and<BR>reaction&quot; is in fact false for open =
circuits.=20
An example is the recoil in a<BR>railgun. The Lorentz law predicts that =
the=20
electrified rails of a railgun<BR>will not feel mechanical reaction =
forces from=20
the projectile-- the reaction<BR>forces are presumed to be absorbed by =
field=20
momentum. The Ampere law<BR>accurately predicts that the rails will feel =
equal=20
forces to the projectile.<BR>The entire Lorentz law is invalidated by a =
single=20
picture of a buckled rail<BR>gun.<BR><BR>But the Ampere law is only =
applicable=20
between and in conductors.<BR><BR>In my opinion both laws are right part =
of the=20
time and therefore neither is<BR>really true.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sincerly =
trying to=20
eliminate my confusion,<BR><BR>Hope this helped=20
:-)<BR><BR>Fred<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 03:47:39 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:40:40 -0400
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Displacement Currents - Correction on cold fusion
In-Reply-To: <934960615.4963.491@excite.com>
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At 12:16 AM 8/18/99 PDT, Harvey Norris wrote:
>While on this subject I am once again  motivated to repeat myself, the
>subject of this discourse is how an electrical current obtained through
>lorentz force law can be viewed as a gyroscopic precession. Extracted from
>Keelynet 3/31/99 RE: The erroneous thinking of cold fusion.
>http://www.keelynet.com/interact/Arc_1_99-4_99/00000760.htm

Without any comment upon displacement current,
there is nonsense about cold fusion at the URL above which
simply ignores the literature - typical of pathologic
skeptics.

 References to the actual literature are available at 
  http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html
and http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion  
  Those that actually obtain the literature
rather than listening to endless hot air, will learn
a lot.

    Mitchell Swartz





From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 03:49:01 1999
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Subject: Info on cold fusion
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 References to the cold fusion literature are available at 
  http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html
and http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion  

  Those who actually obtain the literature
rather than listening to endless hot air, will learn
a lot.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 03:54:11 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Diodic condition
Message-Id: <934973608.27505.365@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 03:53:28 PDT
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In my previous Displacement Current post I refered to something I called a
diodic condition.

Perhaps I should have consulted a dictionary to ascertain whether such a
word actually exists. My meaning was pertaining to diodes in their ability
to conduct amperage in one direction, and not the reverse direction.

In the context of the idea I was trying to convey I may have not
specifically stated I was applying this idea to the use of water as a great
dielectric material. Of course water is an insulator that is never used in
that application because of its lower voltage breakdown threshold compared
to other insulators. However it does have a comparatively high dielectric
constant, and patents have been awarded to people now deceased concerning
methods of fracturing the water molecule by using a high frequency AC
method. These are notably Puharich and Meyers. People have supposedly tried
to duplicate Meyers work to no avail. But it is better to keep on the point
here.

One of the primary points made in a ITS video some years ago about Zero
Point Energy (T Henry Moray, the name escapes me?) was the production of a
spin within a spin at right angles. It is hard to visualize such a thing in
ones mind, but suppose we have a collection of water molecules between the
plates of a high frequency electric field. That will stretch and spin them,
and as previously mentioned, that spin has 360 degrees of freedom with
regard to the to the direction of the electric field.

Now if a magnetic field exists at right angles to the charge movements known
as "displacement currents" it will exert a lorentz force at right angles to
the illusion of NET charge movement produced exclusively from the spin of
these electric dipoles.

HOWEVER, the effect of a net downwards positive charge movement in this
analogy is identical to that of a net upwards negative charge movement,in
that the lorentz force on a moving charge in a magnetic field in this
example is the same for both. If this is the case then how can this lorentz
force law cause a spin within a spin at right angles? It begins to sound
like that spin should cause a translational movement instead.

BUT, the lorentz force law is exactly that, it obeys F=ma. It is the force
on the free charge movement that influences both the masses, but the
positive charge has 1726? times more mass, and additionally its movement is
considered much more retarded in dielectric stretching.
Thus it is concievable that as these collections of dielectric spins are
made in one half revolution, if the lorentz force is to the right, those
spins appearing clockwise to the magnetic field will be favored. The spins
going opposite or counterclockwise will have a right angle force placed on
their net charge movements to turn that spin around so that all spins tend
to be cohered in the correct direction during this half cycle.

During the second half of this cycle since the electric field has reversed
polarity, we must assume that the lorentz force also changes direction. YES
OF COURSE IT DOES! UNLESS THE MAGNETIC FIELD THEN ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY
REVERSES DIRECTION. IN THAT CASE A SPIN WITHIN A SPIN AT RIGHT ANGLES IS
CONTINUALLY MADE BY E AND B LORENTZ REACTION.

In that condition an actual gyroscopic precession of motion should show as
vortex water motion if the sum of molecular movements shows as a collective
macroscopic motion as a whole of the sample. However not knowing the total
relation ratio between translational momentum expressed as heat and angular
momentum of the molecules expressed as this effect, this is highly in
doubt.

If it were possible, then instead of using the falling waters of Niagra
Falls to turn massive generators to produce electricity, it should be
possible to allow the waters to fall through a spiral tubing of cohered E
and B fields and have the actual water molecule to assume the duty of the
generator; by making it produce a spin within a spin  on its gravitational
conversion of energy. This is very far fetched and this is not a science
fiction list, but I have mentioned it as a precursor to the inverse idea,
which I will now merit.

We know that the lorentz law can be compared to gyroscopic precession on a
sample of water molecules exposed to cohered E and B fields at right
angles.
We do not know if this will cause the water itself to act as a sum of
molecular actions to exhibit a macroscopic action. However it is within all
reason to suppose that the direction of this special spin within a spin will
instead of causing actual movement of molecules will create a special case
of conductivitity within an insulator along the path of this supposed
gyroscopic reaction. An analysis of this movement shows spinning cohered
electric dipoles that easily produce the ILLUSION of charge movement across
a path. This is what I meant by a DIODIC condition on an insulator, that
water can be altered by cohered E and B fields to MAKE it more conductive
along that path.
HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 05:17:10 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A Pressure Fuelless Engine
Message-Id: <934978582.28786.920@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:16:22 PDT
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:15:20 PDT, Harvey Norris wrote:

> >Huh? No polish jokes here?
> >Why not just hook it up to the water faucet and utilize  the pressure of

> >the
> >water co? Or do they have those things?
> 
> yes we have those things here... but here is california... land of the 
> $200.00 water bills!!!! no joke!!! and that's with only a postage stamp of
a 
> yard!!!!
Water rates in Akron-Cleveland:I pay about 13 cents to fill my 100 gallon
irrigation tank, on the other hand I think I pay about 13 cents /
kilowatt-hour for electricity. I live at exit 13 on Ohio turnpike. HDN
> Timothy...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> 





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 06:51:37 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Diodic condition
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:57:47 -0400
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>In my previous Displacement Current post I refered to something I called a
>diodic condition.
>
>Perhaps I should have consulted a dictionary to ascertain whether such a
>word actually exists. My meaning was pertaining to diodes in their ability
>to conduct amperage in one direction, and not the reverse direction.

I think this is referred to in the literature as rectification.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 07:56:58 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:48:36 +0100
Subject: Re: Permanent magnet motor?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: J.F.Grant@shu.ac.uk (John F. GRANT)
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Hi everyone,

I found a description of a permanent magnet motor on the net:

http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/

It describes a permanent magnet motor which uses two sets of magnets, one set of specially shaped ones (slightly curved and
tapered) which are able to rotate around what seems standard bar magnets.  The spacing between the bars and length of them seem
to be critical relative to the size of rotating magnets (of course?).  The whole system then only then requires positioning
correctly and off it goes converting the attractive and repulsive forces of the magnets into circular motion, which is then
shown (in an artists impression) has only to be attached by a belt to a standard generator.  

This stuff seems incredible - is it possible?

Any comments would be appreciated.
TTFN,
          John.F.

p.s. I've converted the patent document to a word 97 file and saved a journal article from it's pdf format to bitmap pics if
anyone would like to look at it I'll send it to you, but its quite a big file (5 meg).
*************************************************
John F. Grant
Research Associate
Resources Research Unit
Science Park (Unit 12)
Sheffield Hallam University
City campus
Sheffield S1 1 WB

Tel : 0114 225 4034
Fax: 0114 225 4496
e-mail: j.f.grant@shu.ac.uk
*****************************************
"Never be angry when fools act like fools,
It's better when they identify themselves,
It removes so much uncertainty"
                                           Orson Scott Card

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 09:38:57 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Ampere and Lorentz forces
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was Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment
Hi Fred and all,
At 12:19 AM 8/20/99 -0700, you wrote:

>>Also if anyone can elaborate on R. Hulls statement that the lorentz force
>>law is in conflict with Amperian current force laws? I am in the dark here.
>
>Yes, this relates to the forces between the current in different parts of
>closed and open circuits.  The Lorentz force law and Ampere force law are
>identical in the case of a CLOSED circuit, however it has been shown
>convincingly by Graneau that the Lorentz law, which violates "action and
>reaction" is in fact false for open circuits. An example is the recoil in a
>railgun. The Lorentz law predicts that the electrified rails of a railgun
>will not feel mechanical reaction forces from the projectile-- the reaction
>forces are presumed to be absorbed by field momentum. The Ampere law
>accurately predicts that the rails will feel equal forces to the projectile.
>The entire Lorentz law is invalidated by a single picture of a buckled rail
>gun.
>
>But the Ampere law is only applicable between and in conductors.
>
Thanks for this information.
Isn't a railgun a closed circuit?
Here is a message from May 6:
> >>
> Maybe my current wasn't large enough? In one of his papers, Dr. Graneau
> stated that up to a few thousand Amps, Ampere tension is negligible. I
> initially tried a "railgun" configuration, but the iron electrical contact
> to the copper rails
> is not good enough and the plasma seemed to propel the iron crosspiece up.
> Due to the noise, I put the whole assembly in a sound insulated box. Do you
> have any more details about Tom Ligon's setup?
>
> There is another paper I have from EE Times, April 6, 1992 which describes
> a copper "hairpin" floating in 2 pool contacts of mercury. This copper
> piece was repelled from the current source.
> According to Ampere, the long. forces in the mercury pushed the copper.
> According to Lorentz, the force is from its transverse current in the
> crosspiece segment.
> It would seem easy to distinguish the 2 by just changing the width, thus
> changing the Lorentz but not the Ampere forces?
>
> I also don't understand in a "closed circuit" the 2 forces are equal. What
> is a "unclosed" circuit and why?
> Thanks in advance.
> -Dave


The armature experiment by Ligon was with two simple rails and two car
batteries
in parallel and about 300 amps.  The results were hampered by sticking
welding of
various armatures.  Ferrous armatures rolled in the odd manner only the first
time.  After that they were magnetized and direction of roll was determined
strictly by the direction or orientation of the bar on the rails by normal
motor
rules until the item was fiercly demagnetized in a 100 amp demagnetizier.
Non-ferrous armatures rolled willy-nilly.  Whether you like amperian forces or
lorentz forces more current was needed I felt, though I was highly amused.

Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
video to
all at our meeting.  It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
 in
ball bearings.  power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to over
1000 rpm!  DC or AC made no difference.  Direction did'nt conform to motor
laws.
Tim Raney of our group, built the toy and verified operation.  It is best
to run
this puppy under water as the rod and bearings get super hot.  The bearings
don't
last very long either.  New systems will self start.  Grungy, pitted or burned
bearing need a small torque to start.  This bastard is happy running in either
direction.  Again, AC or DC

Voltage across the thing was about .5-.8 volts and about 25-50 amps.  Lots of
amusing wierdness and I really don't loose sleep over whether these SOB
devices
conform to anyones laws.  I am certain both sides will explain the
operation in
their own characteristic fashion.  The old school to maintain status quo,
and the
new energy freaks just to raise the hackles and insite.  Hell, I am open to a
third opinion which pisses on everyones shoes.


The "hairpin" or paper clip in mercury experiment is the exact experiment
performed by Ampere from which he deduced his forces!  Old Farts educated
in the
last century made 5000 amp molten metal pumps which moved tons of metal
electrically ( Longitudinally) either in culvert circuits or just for
stirring,
using what they learned about ampere forces in college.  Once Lorentz forces
became accepted and taught, these pumps never were though of again as they
should
not have functioned.  Again, the  Graneau's books sort of tell all and supply
several experiments which confound the lorentz force laws.  I am not sure
of much
of anything anymore and wouldn't be a bit surprised if both the lorentz and
ampere forces aren't just special case laws of some more subtle but simple
base
understanding forever eluding us.

The relativists supposedly relegated Newtons laws to "special case"!
These old
ideas are the only laws that work on earth and in the solar system and in
common
experience.  The lorentz forces and the amperian forces could easily be the
common rules of thumb in many but varied circumstances in common experience,
while some more inclusive but mathematically cumbersome solution, like
relativity, might describe every electrical-magnetic force reaction.

One simple experiment violating a theory should topple it according to th' big
"E" man.  It is not so in reality as he and the Graneaus realize.  The
entrenched
have the vast energy reserves of  "acceptance inertia" to fuel their cause.
 This
inertial energy source can power opposition for between 0.5 and 3
generations, on
average.
Richard Hull
> >>
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 11:07:39 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:07:33 +0200
From: Felix Meyer <hb9abx@datacomm.ch>
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Subject: Re: Permanent magnet motor?
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"John F. GRANT" schrieb:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I found a description of a permanent magnet motor on the net:
> 
> http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/
> 
> It describes a permanent magnet motor which uses two sets of magnets, one set of specially shaped ones (slightly curved and
...       snip
> 
> This stuff seems incredible - is it possible?
> 
> Any comments would be appreciated.
>

Hi John,

this motor will not work!

If it would work as free energy generator then we would use this on
instead of the power stations all over the world.

The fact that it is patented by the US Patent Office
means absolutely nothing.

You can find 100 more free energy devices patented which all do not
work.

As example I refer to the W.HYDE Electrostatic Energy Field Power
Generator
Patent: US 4 897 592.
This one I have examined in detail and its a hoax !

Thank you
			Felix

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 12:54:03 1999
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From: "ATGROUP" <atgroup@atgroup.org>
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Subject: TMB multi-stack
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:55:10 -0500
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New multi-stack TMB producing 5.2mA constant current.

http://www.atgroup.org/xtmb.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 13:14:57 1999
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Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:16:06 -0500
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I find it more than interesting how people attempt to duplicate some ones
work and make decisions based upon their attempt. Maybe this is the bane of
the inventors of the world.

I am working at the lab today and we have achieved a milestone in TMB. We
are getting 52mv across a 10 ohm resistor. This means (I know you can do
this, but) P=I^2 R = (5x10-3^2) X 10 = 300uW sustained. I don't think this
is so bad when what you se is what you get.

The cardboard ?, maybe, but with the plastic film involved this would take a
different scientist than me to figure the interactions and explain it. Right
now I'm headed for max power, then will seek out help on what is taking
place with all the different materials.

----- Original Message -----
From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current


> Hi Dave, Rex, and all,
>
> I wonder if the cardboard dielectric was important.
> W. Reich used organic material between two metal plates and claimed that
it
> "energized". Yes, it's anecdotal, and there's no known mechanism to
account
> for it's positive action on biological material, but I've often wondered
if
> absorption of air ions is significantly enhanced with that type of setup.
>
> Colin.


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--------------8424627EAA129B8B7ED13242
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>  Dave Dameron Writes:

> Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
> video to
> all at our meeting.  It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
>  in
> ball bearings.  power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to over
> 1000 rpm!  DC or AC made no difference.  Direction did'nt conform to motor
> laws.
> Tim Raney of our group, built the toy and verified operation.  It is best
> to run
> this puppy under water as the rod and bearings get super hot.  The bearings
> don't
> last very long either.  New systems will self start.  Grungy, pitted or burned
> bearing need a small torque to start.  This bastard is happy running in either
> direction.  Again, AC or DC
>

Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks like an
interesting project.

--------------8424627EAA129B8B7ED13242
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;Dave Dameron Writes:</blockquote>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
video to
all at our meeting.&nbsp; It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
&nbsp;in
ball bearings.&nbsp; power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to over
1000 rpm!&nbsp; DC or AC made no difference.&nbsp; Direction did'nt conform to motor
laws.
Tim Raney of our group, built the toy and verified operation.&nbsp; It is best
to run
this puppy under water as the rod and bearings get super hot.&nbsp; The bearings
don't
last very long either.&nbsp; New systems will self start.&nbsp; Grungy, pitted or burned
bearing need a small torque to start.&nbsp; This bastard is happy running in either
direction.&nbsp; Again, AC or DC</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks
like an interesting project.</html>

--------------8424627EAA129B8B7ED13242--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 13:56:12 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <a3733fab.24ec77a2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:54:58 EDT
Subject: Poynting flow thruster project : Proof of concept.
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

Today I have conducted an interesting experiment about the Poynting flow 
thruster project

The purpose of these series of experiments is :

1) to check experimentaly the effect of the symmetrical Vs the asymmetrical 
setup of the wires connected to the capacitor armature,

2) to check that ionic wind is not the main cause of the resulting thrust.

All pictures and videos about this test can be found at :

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft12poc.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 18:27:52 1999
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Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
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atglab wrote:
>...We are getting 52mv across a 10 ohm resistor. ...

Great to hear more from you guys.  How do you get 52mv to light an LED?
(particularly a green one - I think they take over a volt to light up)
or was that a different arrangment for more volts and less current?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 18:32:33 1999
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Subject: Re: Permanent magnet motor?
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:28 -0700
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Hi Felix and John,

The Johnson permanent magnet motor does appear to work, from the evidence.
 The US patent office rejected
his patent application until he brought a linear form of his motor to their
office and demonstrated it.  The patent office people couldn't stop playing
with it:-) ... and gave him his patent.  In addition the magazine writer to
which John refers went to Johnson's lab and operated the devices for
himself.

I'll soon be putting the article on a website, and of course I'll let
everybody know.
>>
>> I found a description of a permanent magnet motor on the net:
>>
>> http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/
>>
>> It describes a permanent magnet motor which uses two sets of magnets, one
set of specially shaped ones (slightly curved and
>...       snip
>>
>> This stuff seems incredible - is it possible?
>>
>> Any comments would be appreciated.
>>
>
>Hi John,
>
>this motor will not work!
>
>If it would work as free energy generator then we would use this on
>instead of the power stations all over the world.

Hmm, just because something WORKS does not mean it is automatically accepted
by society. Electromedicine works very well but try getting it from your
doctor :-)

There are many reasons why a valuable invention can be lost. In the case of
the Johnson motor, although it is a self-running perpetual motion machine,
it is not able to drive a load of any real size in the form he built it.
As a proof of principle it is amazing though.


>The fact that it is patented by the US Patent Office
>means absolutely nothing.

True.  However it was demonstrated to the patent examiners, which is another
matter entirely.  It should also be pointed out that Johnson had university
support for his device.
>
>You can find 100 more free energy devices patented which all do not
>work.

True, but it doesn't logically follow that there are no working free energy
patents.
>
>As example I refer to the W.HYDE Electrostatic Energy Field Power
>Generator
>Patent: US 4 897 592.
>This one I have examined in detail and its a hoax !

It has been replicated and does not work, that is correct.

I'd also like to point out that it only takes ONE "white crow"-- the Johnson
motor-- to validate the entire range of attempts to gain free energy from
electromagnetic processes, even if it is not a practical device in itself.

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 18:32:36 1999
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Hi Dave and all,
>>
>Thanks for this information.
>Isn't a railgun a closed circuit?

Hmm, maybe it would be better to say it is a circuit where the forces are
made deliberately unequal to propel the projectile. I'll have to ask
somebody I know who is into railguns.

>>
>> There is another paper I have from EE Times, April 6, 1992 which
describes
>> a copper "hairpin" floating in 2 pool contacts of mercury. This copper
>> piece was repelled from the current source.
>> According to Ampere, the long. forces in the mercury pushed the copper.
>> According to Lorentz, the force is from its transverse current in the
>> crosspiece segment.
>> It would seem easy to distinguish the 2 by just changing the width, thus
>> changing the Lorentz but not the Ampere forces?
>>
>> I also don't understand in a "closed circuit" the 2 forces are equal.

Well picture current flowing through a wire made in a circle. If you divide
this circle into very tiny segments, called circuit elements in the lit, and
then calculate the forcs between each of these elements and all of the
others, and then vector sum all of these forces, you get zero.  What Lorentz
said is that there is no force between adjacent elements. Ampere said there
is a force, the longitudinal force. It is true that the longitudinal forces
in the wire circle are not summed to zero-- if the wire is subjected to a
high enough current pulse, and if it doesn't melt, it will break into small
pieces due to these forces.
What I meant was the forces between various parts of the loop sum to zero in
both cases.  That is why most ampere force demonstrations require an open
circuit.

The simplest experiment in the lit is to take a U shaped piece of wire and
suspend it flat hanging from a string and touch each of the ends to two
other wires so that a current can be put through the U.  If the current is
high enough the U will be driven away from the rest of the circuit.

What
>> is a "unclosed" circuit and why?

It is a circuit where current is flowing but does not return to its source,
for instance a stream of ions or electrons.. But I am not really happy with
this answer, I will go back and look at the papers again and at least I wil
be able to quote chapter and verse.  Ask me again later :-)

>
>Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
>video to
>all at our meeting.  It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
> in
>ball bearings.  power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to
over
>1000 rpm!  DC or AC made no difference.  Direction did'nt conform to motor
>laws.

Hmm, as far as I can tell this is not the Marinov motor but what is
called --appropriately enough-- a "ball bearing motor" :-).  I saw an
article at least 10 years in Am. J. Phys. that talked about this and it is
quite conventional though surprising to see.  As I recall it is some sort of
eddy current effect.

The Marinov motor as further evolved by Phipps, Kooinstra, and others is
quite different from this. In the most basic terms it works on the magnetic
vector potential A of a closed loop permanent magnet.  Picture a toroidal
magnet with the field orientation around the toroid-- a closed loop. Now
stand this on end and hang a loop of wire from above so it is hanging around
the toroid, like saturn's rings.
If a current is put into the loop by sliding contacts or mercury pools from
opposite sides of the loop it will rotate.
It does not appear to have a preferred direction but this is in dispute.

Note that there is NO magnetic field in the space of the loop and that the
current travels equally around both sides of the loop.  Figure out how that
works and you might get a nice prize :-)

Fred


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At 01:16 PM 8/18/99 -0700, Brian wrote:

>Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks like an
>interesting project.
>
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/bbmotor.html
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 19:19:10 1999
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From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@csrlink.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:15:34 -0400
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>The displacement current is not a whim. The magnetic fields are there. See
Feynman
>vol.2 section 18-2 or 'page' 18-3 (better to number pages sequentiality Prof.
Feynman?).
>See section 27 and on. In section 27-5 page 27-8 he talks about the absurdity
of the
>Poynting vector citing the apparent flow of energy around around a stationary
magnet
>and point charge. This really needs to be looked at, the whole derivation of S.
Why can't
>we take it at face value??? Is there really free energy here - an open system.

Bearden talks about the Poynting vector as a real, exploitable force in his new
online book.  Have you read it yet?  See
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/Disclaimer.htm and follow the
links from there.

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 19:19:12 1999
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>If it were possible, then instead of using the falling waters of Niagra
>Falls to turn massive generators to produce electricity, it should be
>possible to allow the waters to fall through a spiral tubing of cohered E
>and B fields and have the actual water molecule to assume the duty of the
>generator; by making it produce a spin within a spin  on its gravitational
>conversion of energy. This is very far fetched and this is not a science
>fiction list, but I have mentioned it as a precursor to the inverse idea,
>which I will now merit.

Maybe Schauberger was doing this?

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 19:22:14 1999
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that page claims it's not a magnetic effect (I know that was marinovs
claim), then why does it not work with an aluminium shaft?

Dave Dameron wrote:

> At 01:16 PM 8/18/99 -0700, Brian wrote:
>
> >Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks like an
> >interesting project.
> >
> http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/bbmotor.html
> -Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 21:01:29 1999
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MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote:

> << Hi folks,
> I came a cross this interesting website, inventor says:
>
> First of all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Waclaw Florczyk, I
> live in Swidnica, Poland, at
> ul. Dluga 31 m.8. My phone number is +48 74 51-29-46.
>
> I am looking for an investor who would help me make the prototype of a
> pressure fuelless engine
> which I have invented.
>
> <A
> HREF="http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm">http://www.florczyk.com/english.htm
> </A>
> Here is the address, see what you'll think of this.
>
> Mehmet.>>

 I'm sorry, but I just cannot help it..somehow the notion of an inventor begging
for
money off the internet is just...<ready?>...PATENTLY ABSURD! :D

 Cheers!

      Erik

ps-assuming that this guy is for real, i.e. he thinks he's found a way to make
some
form of the Keely Atomic Disintegrator, it might be interesting to have someone
who speaks/reads/writes in Polish to induct the fellow to our Circle...that is to
say TEACH him the value of peer-review..as well as something of the history
regarding  "secrecy" in the alternate energy arena. Who knows, he might have
something to teach us as well!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 22:51:05 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Marinov Motor ??
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Hi John and all,
At 02:22 PM 8/19/99 +1200, you wrote:
>that page claims it's not a magnetic effect (I know that was marinovs
>claim), then why does it not work with an aluminium shaft?
>
Maybe the aluminum has different thermal characteristics? The earlier
fowarded post said their shaft was stainless steel, which usually is not
magnetic.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 18 23:31:56 1999
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Subject: Re: Ampere and Lorentz forces
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Hi Fred and all,
At 04:16 PM 8/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Isn't a railgun a closed circuit?
>
>Hmm, maybe it would be better to say it is a circuit where the forces are
>made deliberately unequal to propel the projectile. I'll have to ask
>somebody I know who is into railguns.

Well, that sounds like it makes more sense than the open/closed circuit
statement.
>
>Well picture current flowing through a wire made in a circle. If you divide
>this circle into very tiny segments, called circuit elements in the lit, and
>then calculate the forcs between each of these elements and all of the
>others, and then vector sum all of these forces, you get zero.  What Lorentz
>said is that there is no force between adjacent elements. Ampere said there
>is a force, the longitudinal force. It is true that the longitudinal forces
>in the wire circle are not summed to zero-- if the wire is subjected to a
>high enough current pulse, and if it doesn't melt, it will break into small
>pieces due to these forces.
>What I meant was the forces between various parts of the loop sum to zero in
>both cases.  That is why most ampere force demonstrations require an open
>circuit.

What I sometimes think is what many mean by "open circuit" is a circuit
that isn't rigid so forces between different portions of the same circuit
can cause movement. Just like your first statement. However, most do not
say this...
Even normal "Lorentz" circuits have forces between parts, just not longit.
Picture 2 series connected electromagnets.
>
>The simplest experiment in the lit is to take a U shaped piece of wire and
>suspend it flat hanging from a string and touch each of the ends to two
>other wires so that a current can be put through the U.  If the current is
>high enough the U will be driven away from the rest of the circuit.

Well isn't it then closed when current flows? Do you have any references
for, for example, connecting the "U" ends to the appropriate battery plates
and floating the jig in electrolyte? A U loop and a switched battery, all
on a pendulum doesn't work. Both are closed, but the first isn't "rigid".
>
>What
>>> is a "unclosed" circuit and why?
>
>It is a circuit where current is flowing but does not return to its source,
>for instance a stream of ions or electrons.. But I am not really happy with
>this answer, I will go back and look at the papers again and at least I wil
>be able to quote chapter and verse.  Ask me again later :-)

I'm not happy with it either. Changing the transport mechanism of the
current doesn't mean "unclosed", or a battery or vacuum tube (valve)
circuit would be.

>>
>>Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
>>video to
>>all at our meeting. 
>Hmm, as far as I can tell this is not the Marinov motor but what is
>called --appropriately enough-- a "ball bearing motor" :-).  I saw an
>article at least 10 years in Am. J. Phys. that talked about this and it is
>quite conventional though surprising to see.  As I recall it is some sort of
>eddy current effect.

Well the 2 are clearly different devices. The "ball bearing" motor article
states it is thermal, but haven't done any experiments with it.
>
>The Marinov motor as further evolved by Phipps, Kooinstra, and others is
>quite different from this. In the most basic terms it works on the magnetic
>vector potential A of a closed loop permanent magnet.  Picture a toroidal
>magnet with the field orientation around the toroid-- a closed loop. Now
>stand this on end and hang a loop of wire from above so it is hanging around
>the toroid, like saturn's rings.
>If a current is put into the loop by sliding contacts or mercury pools from
>opposite sides of the loop it will rotate.
>It does not appear to have a preferred direction but this is in dispute.
>
>Note that there is NO magnetic field in the space of the loop and that the
>current travels equally around both sides of the loop.  Figure out how that
>works and you might get a nice prize :-)
>
No I haven't figured it out yet, either by Lorentz or Ampere. I can maybe
see alignment as the VACE element and the ring contacts define an axis and
angle. The jury is still out on the operation. I have read that only 2
people have got it to work: Kooistra and Cyril Smith. Others have not
(Jorge Valverde), who have used up to 100 Amps in the ring.
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 19 01:47:45 1999
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:46:26 +0200
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Felix and John,
> 
> The Johnson permanent magnet motor does appear to work, ....    snip
> 
> True.  However it was demonstrated to the patent examiners, which is another
> matter entirely.  It should also be pointed out that Johnson had university
> support for his device.
> >
> >You can find 100 more free energy devices patented which all do not
> >work.
> ...     snip
> True, but it doesn't logically follow that there are no working free energy
> patents.
> >
...    snip

Hi Fred ans all,

I think, the problem here is, that many times the plans in the patent
do not represent a running machine correctly.

This is done many times INTENTIONALLY to prevent copying.

							Felix

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Cheers Jim,
Will look.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Jim Shaffer, Jr. [SMTP:jshaffer@csrlink.net]
Sent:	19 August 1999 03:16
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: The Poynting Flow Thruster experiment...

>The displacement current is not a whim. The magnetic fields are there. See
Feynman
>vol.2 section 18-2 or 'page' 18-3 (better to number pages sequentiality Prof.
Feynman?).
>See section 27 and on. In section 27-5 page 27-8 he talks about the absurdity
of the
>Poynting vector citing the apparent flow of energy around around a stationary
magnet
>and point charge. This really needs to be looked at, the whole derivation of S.
Why can't
>we take it at face value??? Is there really free energy here - an open system.

Bearden talks about the Poynting vector as a real, exploitable force in his new
online book.  Have you read it yet?  See
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/Disclaimer.htm and follow the
links from there.

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>



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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 19 02:29:16 1999
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	Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:28:48 -0700
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Message-ID: <37BBC573.37B4@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:50:59 +1200
From: Robbie Rowntree <rown@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz
Organization: Robbie Rowntree's Amazing Magnetic Machine's
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To: vortexC-L@eskimo.com
CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: HIT YOU WITH 2 X 4
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> From:   Peter Fred [mailto:pbfred@choice.net]
> Sent:   Tuesday, August 10, 1999 2:17 AM
> To:     freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> In my laboratory or living room I make heat flow through a hemisphere in the
> steady state and I get a decrease in weight (~3.7 %).  See
> http://www4.choice.net/~pbfred/ .

following Peter Fred,s work with hemisphere> 
>              vortexC-L@eskimo.com
> 
>              vortexC-L@eskimo.com 

 I,ve combined some other element's I've learn't and designed into this
torsion generator with potentual as a detector in mind , I think this is
much more than both. use flour and water as dieletric glue to shell.
2x4 2x4 2x4 2x4 2x4 ............. must rest ..
-- 
           	        **RRAMM**
      Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research     
 Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electric Gen*Anti gravity drive
	            mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz

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--------------1381601A2B55--


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 19 07:35:48 1999
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Message-ID: <004001beea50$4e7498e0$3ce7fea9@fs11>
From: "atglab" <atglab@atgroup.org>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
References: <000701bee1cb$146497a0$bc57fea9@y9g6r3><3.0.5.32.19990817094920.0111f3a0@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.32.19990819092633.00896b60@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:37:03 -0500
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I think there is some confusion here, the LED is being driven by the MFVC
and not the TMB's. We are going to complete the TMB web pages before placing
the MFVC back on (with a name change as suggested by Stefan Hartman). Anyway
they are very different configuration and at first look may appear the same
yet are different in metal layers and magnet configuration.

We are trying to get the TMB's to the LED driving stage, but this is the
best so far.

----- Original Message -----
From: John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Sustained TMB Current


> atglab wrote:
> >...We are getting 52mv across a 10 ohm resistor. ...
>
> Great to hear more from you guys.  How do you get 52mv to light an LED?
> (particularly a green one - I think they take over a volt to light up)
> or was that a different arrangment for more volts and less current?
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 19 08:36:49 1999
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:31:30
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: PM-assisted inductive repulsion
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Hi all,
>At 06:58 PM 8/16/99 -0700, Bill wrote:
>>
>>HEY!  PM-assisted inductive repulsion!
>>
>>If we place some copper foil on the bottom of a small ceramic magnet, and
>>then we cancel *most* of its weight by placing a larger magnet above it...
>>then a fairly feeble AC coil placed below the smaller magnet should be
>>able to up push on the copper foil and lift it *really high*.  AC
>>inductive repulsion is far stronger than Bismuth diamagnetic repulsion. 
>>It still needs to plug into the wall, but at least it doesn't need any
>>fancy feedback system. 
>>
And I wrote:
>So far no go. The biggest problem seems to be the AC attraction/repulsion
of the small ceramic magnet to the AC electromagnet. The copper isn't
nearly enough an eddy current magnetic shield. It vibrates and jumps around
strongly (60Hz), that is until it finally gets an added push and jumps up
to the larger magnet.
>-Dave
>
I solved the vibration problem, I just spaced the small magnet and copper
apart.
The copper is now a ring. Although it seems that I should find the force
"well" easily (The repulsion at the bottom falls off much quicker than the
attraction increases at the top), so far I have not. The approx. distance
between the fixed magnet above the free unit and the smaller magnet at the
top of the free unit is 3 cm.

xxxNNNNNNNN
x
x     SSS
x      |
x      |
x      |
x     c-c
x     XXX
x     XXX
x     XXX
xxxxxxxxx

xxx= adjustable frame
XXX= AC coil and core
c-c= copper ring.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 19 20:54:49 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Acceptance for Value
Message-Id: <935121199.9943.655@excite.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:53:19 PDT
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Although the course may change, the rivers always reach the sea.  Led
Zeppelin

Matthew 5: 25-26
    Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art with him on the way;
lest thy opponent deliver thee to the judge, and the judge to the
officer,and thou be cast into prison.
    Amen I say unto thee, thou wilt not come out from it until thou hast
paid the last penny.
(Saint Joseph New Catholic Edition)

Some people know what this is about, others do not.
Some of us worry too much about the consequences of revolution, and I am one
of those. I will have no part in fraud, I believe in God.

Tesla liked to make pronouncements on his birthday of July 9th. There
happened to be incredible things associated between Teslas history and my
own, and as things went along I began to think it permissible to act as his
spokesman in abscentia.

However the strawman I hold title to as 
HARVEY D NORRIS needs to be redeemed at better than quoted face value as
transferred by the agencies whom have mortgaged this value in trade.

In order to increase this value it becomes imperative that I put the
appropriate agencies at notice that my worth is greater than the quoted sum
of $630,000.00 which was assumed as the common strawman value in US currency
estimation which consists of the average mortgaged value concerning the
practice of world governments trading in birth certificates.

As such claims have been made the business of proving this can now be
made.Appropriate and prior to filings;

On 9/7/99 test results of Keely prognosis concerning 48,200 hz resonance
being a disruptive effect on the water molecule shall be released on this
freenrg-l list.

Primarily the first results will come from an earlier test at 32,730 hz
which is within 5% of Puharich prediction of third harmonic of tetrahedral
water resonance.

These tests will use only 4 components,an inductor,capacitor,electrolysizor,
and arc gap.
No solid state electronics involved.

Redemption involves making a statement before the world, or perhaps in this
remote view of things before your peers on this discussion list.

Actually redemption has an entirely different meaning to many others, and I
do not normally use religious quotes in my entrees. However this is a USA
political thing that is happening that foreigners have no idea of. I stand
by my statements mentioned before,and one way or another I will repeat on
9/7/99.

Sincerly HDN 




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 01:22:22 1999
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:28:55 -0500
From: Don Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
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Subject: Re: Acceptance for Value
References: <935121199.9943.655@excite.com>
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wow.... Harvey, you rock bro!  can't wait for more.....


cheers!  :)

Harvey Norris wrote:

> Although the course may change, the rivers always reach the sea.  Led
> Zeppelin
>
> Matthew 5: 25-26
>     Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art with him on the way;
> lest thy opponent deliver thee to the judge, and the judge to the
> officer,and thou be cast into prison.
>     Amen I say unto thee, thou wilt not come out from it until thou hast
> paid the last penny.
> (Saint Joseph New Catholic Edition)
>
> Some people know what this is about, others do not.
> Some of us worry too much about the consequences of revolution, and I am one
> of those. I will have no part in fraud, I believe in God.
>
> Tesla liked to make pronouncements on his birthday of July 9th. There
> happened to be incredible things associated between Teslas history and my
> own, and as things went along I began to think it permissible to act as his
> spokesman in abscentia.
>
> However the strawman I hold title to as
> HARVEY D NORRIS needs to be redeemed at better than quoted face value as
> transferred by the agencies whom have mortgaged this value in trade.
>
> In order to increase this value it becomes imperative that I put the
> appropriate agencies at notice that my worth is greater than the quoted sum
> of $630,000.00 which was assumed as the common strawman value in US currency
> estimation which consists of the average mortgaged value concerning the
> practice of world governments trading in birth certificates.
>
> As such claims have been made the business of proving this can now be
> made.Appropriate and prior to filings;
>
> On 9/7/99 test results of Keely prognosis concerning 48,200 hz resonance
> being a disruptive effect on the water molecule shall be released on this
> freenrg-l list.
>
> Primarily the first results will come from an earlier test at 32,730 hz
> which is within 5% of Puharich prediction of third harmonic of tetrahedral
> water resonance.
>
> These tests will use only 4 components,an inductor,capacitor,electrolysizor,
> and arc gap.
> No solid state electronics involved.
>
> Redemption involves making a statement before the world, or perhaps in this
> remote view of things before your peers on this discussion list.
>
> Actually redemption has an entirely different meaning to many others, and I
> do not normally use religious quotes in my entrees. However this is a USA
> political thing that is happening that foreigners have no idea of. I stand
> by my statements mentioned before,and one way or another I will repeat on
> 9/7/99.
>
> Sincerly HDN
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
> Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 01:41:53 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 04:41:26 EDT
Subject: Alternate Energy Research Projects
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Alternate Energy Research Projects
<A HREF="http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crystal/100/patents.htm">
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crystal/100/patents.htm</A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 04:24:57 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:23:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Poynting thruster
To: WDBAUER@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hi Dieter and all,

This is not a simple opened tube, but a cylindrical capacitor which one side 
closed like a Leyden bottle, the positive pole is connected on the outer 
armature in the main axis and the 0V is connected on the inner the armature 
also in the main axis so as each electrode are placed face to face in the 
middle. For instance if this two wires are placed on the right side of this 
asymmetrical capacitor, during the transient phase the S-Flow follows the 
dielectric from the left (the edge of the cap) to the right. So, there is an 
asymmetrical S-Flow like the basic experiment with an asymmetrical flat 
capacitor.

Regards,

Jean-Louis

Dans un courrier dat du 26/08/99 13:02:04), WDBAUER@vossnet.de a crit :

> Here some ideas how to improve the Poynting thruster of J.L. Naudin
>  presented at
>  http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft02.htm .
>  Acc. to Jean Louis the Poynting thrust E x H is responsible for the
>  moment. This is not totally correct. It is the momentum of the field D x
>  B which is parallel and makes the thrust if you are using simple linear
>  materials coupling to the field. Therefore the thrust can be enhanced if
>  a highly dielectric ceramic is used filling the airgap of the  Leyden
>  jar tube capacitance.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 03:19:50 1999
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From: GEOFF EGEL <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Invention from Azerbaijan
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--=====================_935112138==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


This is some information I have received from a contatct in Baku Azerbajjan
and wished to be placed on the internet.
I had to retype some of the information   and so some of the  formulas and
words may not be totally correct.

Dear Geoff Egel 

Permit me to introduce  myself to you.
My name is Ahmedov Balashirin  and I from Baku in Azerbaijan.
I'm 29 and am working as an engineer at the space Research bureau in Baku
I'm  been studying by alternative energy sources for more than nine years.

Si I created this new method of electric power production ,in my method I
used  new principles .
Perhaps my research results would seem to you unbelievable but I remark
again there is not any unreal thing in my invention.

I found and proved my research experimentry.
Before creation my method I have learned  a lot about MHPG,SNAP and other
plasma technologies which were are in euergetic.

I inform you to my method of power production I chose plasma.
Because this is a very effective in Azerbaijan many scientists appreciated
my research and experimental results I believe my metod of power production
would win a great success in the world ,I ask you to spread my invention to
the world via the internet .

Please note that I'm also collaborating with research institutions of the
USA,Europe,Russia,Canada and Japan.


Thanks in advance
Yours truly
Ahmedov Balashirin
Engineer
Baku Azerbaijan

Akhmedov, Balashirin A. <AkhmedovBA@AZNET.ORG>


The new method of electric power production.

I created the new method of electric power production on principle. So
that, in my method I am getting energy from vacuum. 

This is unusual and most effective way. The working matter of my converter
is plasma. 
I am not using  a magnetic field for production electric power from plasma. 
Because of low effect. I have  used intensive electrical field.

 It seems impossible but my experimental result has proved to be correct
and the superiority of my method. On the contrary using intensive
electrical field let me get a wonderful result. 

I used electrical field for both burning plasma and giving speed to charged
particles. 
That is why efficiency of my converter is very high. 

Referring to my  experiments and scientific proofs  I hereby describe the
real project and the working process of my converter which is suitable for
more needs.

The main element of my converter is ion device. That ion device is consist
of glass balloon in which inserted two flat electrodes.

 Inside of that device should full of inert gas (neon) with addition
cesium. The pressure of gas in ion device should take on 10 mm.m.c. (mm.
mercury column). Cesium should be added  in an amount of  40% (per cent) of
the whole gas volume. 

The ion device each electrode's space size should take on S= I 0cm ^2
 (this could be also to the third power ^3 .as I could not read it properly
Geoff)  and mid electrodes distance L=2cm. That time mid electrodes space
volume would equal V=SxL=10cm^
squared x2cm=2Ocm to the 3 power.

On normal atmosphere pressure (760 mm. m. c.) in this volume may exist
N.=VxL=20cm^3*2.7*10^19  1/cm^3 =5.4^20 gas atoms. 

Where L is Loshmid number. On 10 mm.m.c. pressure in this volume should
enter n1=n0/n=5.4*10^20/76=7*10^18 gas atoms. 

Where n=760 mm.m.c./10 mm.m.c.=76.

Electrical scheme of new converter.



The device is in three stages.

The first stage is a step up transformer  220 volts to 2000 volts.

This first transformer seems to raise the 220 volts to 2000 volts at 2 amps.


The next stage is connected in parallel  to the ion device as previously
described to the secondary terminals of the first step up transformer.

Final stage is another transformer  and it appears to be equal in both sides.

The primary terminals of the second transformer are connected in parallel
to the ion device and the secondary terminals of the step up transformer.







The Ion device is producing electric power in this way.
The first transformer is raising the 220 volts to 2000 volts at a current
value of 2 amps.


The current intensity in the output of the step up transformer should fall
till 0.2A.

 Then high voltage current is transferring to electrodes of the ion device. 

The electrodes of the ion device also, is jointed to user circuit. The
final output device can be used transformer or engine. 

As above described previously the ion device is full of cesium. 

That is why resistance of the ion device would be very low. When high
voltage current would be transferred then that current should flow across
ion device circuit, not the ouput circuit. This fact was discovered  from
experiment.

As proved by experiment that time in the ion device should hold the next
process. 

First, under influence intensive electrical field cesium atoms would easily
decay to independent electrons and positive ions. 

These charged particles under influence the same electrical field would get
a great speed and fly to the electrodes. On way to electrodes these charged
particles would decay neon atoms to charged particles. If third part of
whole gas atoms would be taken from cesium, then all gas atoms in the ion
device should turn to charged particles and under influence intensive
electrical field these particles would  fly and fall to the electrodes. So,
in mid electrodes space would flow current. 

This time the common charge of electrons (and same ions) in the ion device
would beQ0=N1*e=7*10^18 1.610 ^19= 1.02 Culon. Where e is electron's charge
index. As known current intensify index of the high voltage current is 0.2
Ampere. It is very low. 

Therefore, when transformer current would flow across ion device then in
this process would participate near %1 of the charged particles.

The remaining  part of those charged particles (99%) would create current
in the output transformer circuit. 

As getting from the experiment voltage index of this current should be
equal to current voltage that transferring to ion device( electrodes. 

Because as known voltage index in the final transformer circuit is
determined by electrons kinetic energy in plasma. These electrons is
getting their kinetic energy from potential energy of electrical field. 

By law of conservation of energy in time of these energy turnings quantity
of electrical field remains constant. 

That is voltage index in the output transformer element circuit should be
equal to 2000V but current intensify index depends on two parameters.
First, from common charge and second fly speed of the electrons that create
power in the user element. common charge of these electrons would
Q1,=Q0%99=1 .02*0.99=1 Culon. Under influence intensive electrical field
these electrons should get v=27000km/sec fly speed and within a nanosecond
would fall on the electrodes. Meanwhile, positive ions should get near
v=lOOkm/sec fly speed and in a second would strike ten thousand blow to the
electrodes, breaking off independent electrons. 

As a result of high speed electrons exchange current intensify index in the
output transformer  circuit would rise to hundreds Amperes. 

These facts were proved by experiment and can be used. 

Production of electric power by this converter(or method) technically is
very advantageous and environmentally acceptable.
Author:Ahmedov Balashirin, Engineer
PS

I have also enclosed a small gif file of the drawing that Ahmedov  sent me me
to explain device  if you can get attachments in your email reader.

Geoff
--=====================_935112138==_
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--=====================_935112138==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
        Solaris searching for natures energy sources.
        Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135

 my postal address as follows

 I am also on the lookout for something new free energy on the alternative
energy scene
can you help me out?  anything you send my end up on this group of webpages
for other to share as well. 

Geoff Egel
  18 Sturt Street
   Loxton 5333
    South Australia
     Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
   Energy 21 website now resides at
http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html

     Bright Sparks website.

      http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

NEW site  where the unzipped contents of encyclopedia of free energy are on
display.
for those that have MACS or non IBM or clone machines.
                       
                        Alternator site  at
                 http://encyclopedia.educator.webjump.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
--=====================_935112138==_--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 14:40:47 1999
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Message-ID: <37BDBCC0.5718D653@datacomm.ch>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:38:24 +0200
From: Felix Meyer <hb9abx@datacomm.ch>
Organization: hb9abx
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: New Energy Type - Homepage ENERGY FOR THE FUTURE
References: <00c001beeb63$9929dda0$4db6bfd1@Pfepps>
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The new FREE ENERGY Homepage, called ENERGY FOR THE FUTURE
brings condensed information about all mayor FREE ENERGY types.

Check in and comment:

http://www.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/

You can select the info in German or English language.

					Felix

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 20:38:24 1999
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From: tv@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:27:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Invention from Azerbajjan
Message-ID: <19990820.203913.-3146943.1.tv@juno.com>
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This sounds very similar to the Corea Pulse Abnormal Glow Discharge
invention.

Tim
( tv@juno.com )

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 22:20:36 1999
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From: "Randy Hargraves" <randy_hargraves@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: SMOT / Hargraves / Watson
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:19:34 PDT
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Has anyone heard any thing about the status of the SMOT Which was to be sent 
out by Gregg Watson???????

Thanks
Randy Hargraves


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 20 22:30:01 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <a8e18bd8.24ef932b@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:29:15 EDT
Subject: You have to see this!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I am building this device, the animation is being updated to show fewer 
magnets in each stack and a smaller air gap at the bottom. Most parts should 
be "off the shelf ". The forces at work are repulsion on one side attraction 
on the other. When the most vertical spoke approaches the repulsion area it 
moves down to help the rotor move past this area of resistance and after 
moving to an area of less repulsion it moves back up the spoke into a 
repulsion mode to help in turning the rotor.
See it at  <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte 
Research site 1</A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
Also it will soon be on the PFEUL web site.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 01:15:30 1999
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:15:03 -1000
Subject: Re: You have to see this!
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Butch -

> I am building this device, the animation is being updated to show fewer
> magnets in each stack and a smaller air gap at the bottom. Most parts should
> be "off the shelf ". The forces at work are repulsion on one side attraction
> on the other. When the most vertical spoke approaches the repulsion area it
> moves down to help the rotor move past this area of resistance and after
> moving to an area of less repulsion it moves back up the spoke into a
> repulsion mode to help in turning the rotor.
> See it at  <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte
> Research site 1</A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
> Also it will soon be on the PFEUL web site.


I can't see how the spring-away action is going to help this one at all. The
force pulling back against the rotation of the wheel is when the magnet
tries to go from attractive mode to repulsive mode, and is felt before the
transition as a great reluctance to leave the attraction area. At the same
time, it's being pulled *in* towards the rim there, and has no inclination
to compress the spring at all as the animation suggests, unless force is
applied to move it into the repulsion zone and at the same time push it away
from the still-attracting section. Stated perhaps more simply, it's breaking
free of the *attraction* right there that's more of a problem than the
repulsion ahead.

I just don't see any force there able to push it across the junction. Where
am I missing it?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 01:16:55 1999
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:16:39 -1000
Subject: Re: SMOT / Hargraves / Watson
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Randy -


> Has anyone heard any thing about the status of the SMOT Which was to be sent
> out by Gregg Watson???????
>
> Thanks
> Randy Hargraves


It was an apparent fraud, or perhaps a self-delusion. There are no SMOTs.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 04:32:01 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
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Subject: RE: SMOT / Hargraves / Watson
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Ah ha! The sword of truth and the shield of fair play. All will follow you!
(BTW what do you build these days?)

-----Original Message-----
From:	Rick Monteverde [SMTP:rick@highsurf.com]
Sent:	21 August 1999 09:17
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: SMOT / Hargraves / Watson

Randy -


> Has anyone heard any thing about the status of the SMOT Which was to be sent
> out by Gregg Watson???????
>
> Thanks
> Randy Hargraves


It was an apparent fraud, or perhaps a self-delusion. There are no SMOTs.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI


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AAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAJVC

------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEBD1.12D69EA0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 06:01:54 1999
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X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: PM-assisted inductive repulsion
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990819083130.25ff15ca@earthlink.net>
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On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:

> I solved the vibration problem, I just spaced the small magnet and copper
> apart.
> The copper is now a ring. Although it seems that I should find the force
> "well" easily (The repulsion at the bottom falls off much quicker than the
> attraction increases at the top), so far I have not. The approx. distance
> between the fixed magnet above the free unit and the smaller magnet at the
> top of the free unit is 3 cm.

The articles about this stuff imply that the wider and stronger the upper
magnet, the easier it is to create stable levitiation.  The photo in the
article showed a magnet being levitated from the feeble repulsion from
human fingers!  They used a huge electromagnet a couple of meters above
the human hand.   If the upper magnet is too close to the floating magnet,
then the higher the floating magnet goes, the stronger the upwards pull.
That's exactly what you DON'T want.

Maybe if your upper magnet was composed of parallel stacks of magnet
disks, like a bundle of logs, then the field below it would be more
uniform and less "radial-shaped".


> 
> xxxNNNNNNNN
> x
> x     SSS
> x      |
> x      |
> x      |
> x     c-c
> x     XXX
> x     XXX
> x     XXX
> xxxxxxxxx
> 
> xxx= adjustable frame
> XXX= AC coil and core
> c-c= copper ring.
> -Dave
> 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 13:31:37 1999
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From: mbe1284@elektro.fontys.nl
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:03:00 +0200
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I think this will not work. If you give this motor a swing it will turn, but
after a while the magnets are in a balanced position and the motor stops.
I did not yet read the info over the spin balance system.

Do you have already a prototype?

WJ

HLafonte@aol.com schreef:

> I am building this device, the animation is being updated to show fewer
> magnets in each stack and a smaller air gap at the bottom. Most parts should
> be "off the shelf ". The forces at work are repulsion on one side attraction
> on the other. When the most vertical spoke approaches the repulsion area it
> moves down to help the rotor move past this area of resistance and after
> moving to an area of less repulsion it moves back up the spoke into a
> repulsion mode to help in turning the rotor.
> See it at  <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte
> Research site 1</A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
> Also it will soon be on the PFEUL web site.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 14:38:31 1999
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:37:48 -1000
Subject: Re: SMOT / Hargraves / Watson / Aloha Shirts
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Remi -

> (BTW what do you build these days?)

Thanks, I'm building a little business on eBay. When money comes, I'll open
up my "weird science" box again and start tinkering. Wanna buy a nice used
Aloha Shirt?  ;)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 14:50:27 1999
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:46:49
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: PM-assisted inductive repulsion
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Hi Bill and all,
At 06:01 AM 8/21/99 -0700, you wrote:

>> I solved the vibration problem, I just spaced the small magnet and copper
>> apart.
>> The copper is now a ring. Although it seems that I should find the force
>> "well" easily (The repulsion at the bottom falls off much quicker than the
>> attraction increases at the top), so far I have not. The approx. distance
>> between the fixed magnet above the free unit and the smaller magnet at the
>> top of the free unit is 3 cm.
>
>The articles about this stuff imply that the wider and stronger the upper
>magnet, the easier it is to create stable levitiation.  The photo in the
>article showed a magnet being levitated from the feeble repulsion from
>human fingers!  They used a huge electromagnet a couple of meters above
>the human hand.   If the upper magnet is too close to the floating magnet,
>then the higher the floating magnet goes, the stronger the upwards pull.
>That's exactly what you DON'T want.

Yes, I have tried various magnet configurations at the top, the best being
a Neodym magnet size about 3x5 cm x 1cm thick. Ceramic loudspeaker ring
magnets have not worked as well, because of the hole. I am looking for a
larger (levitron) sized magnet like 12 x12 cm to try.

I have got it to "levitate", but only with some sideways stabilization.
This isn't surprising as just 2 magnets in repulsion can do this (2 ring
magnets on a rod), as well as just a repulsion coil and ring. That is, it's
no better than the start.

I have found the repulsion ring needs to be a certain size cross section
area or larger. I first thought both the weight and total induced current
would vary with the area, so it wouldn't matter, but I was wrong. For
example, a ring made from No. AWG 12 wire (2mm diameter) or smaller will
not lift with my particular induction coil, however a 3.2mm diameter wire
ring will. My 3cm spacing from the upper magnet is with a heavy ring
attached. Ity appears that the it is far enough that the upwards pull
gradient is small enough that the repulsion gradient is larger so a
"minimum" can be found.  However, for sideways stability a smaller top
magnet may be required to hold the assembly in place? Then there is the
"flip" stability... that the spinning levitron top takes care of.

Now if I got the ring/magnet to spin like in an induction motor...?

With just 2 Neodym. magnets the furthest apart I can hold them so the top
one will pick up the lower one is about 8cm. The lower one is sitting on a
non-magnetic surface such as a wood tabletop. Meters of separation is very
amazing like the electromagnet. Is it superconducting like for the frog?

The article
>http://lahr.org/john-jan/maglev/maglev.html said:
>It's done by lifting a small, powerful permanent magnet using a much
larger magnet
>far above. In the article the authors used a huge electomagnet 8 ft. above
the >little neo. magnet. They also mention that a "handheld" version
exists, so a >huge magnet is probably not a requirement. 


A general question, how far with magnets/electromagnets has anyone been
able to pick one up vertically with another (attractive force = gravity)?
What were your sizes, shapes?
-Dave





From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 14:56:13 1999
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:57:19 -0400
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Butch,

this is just great. That is THE desing I was looking for. A much simpler aproach
to
the non linear motor at the Bedini site.

We see that all the forces pushing the wheel will overcome the regauging force
at the end. You will have to fine tune the force of the springs to the magnetic
repulsion force.

This is very interesting. It could yield results.

I whish you the best of success in the building of this device.

HLafonte@aol.com wrote:

> I am building this device, the animation is being updated to show fewer
> magnets in each stack and a smaller air gap at the bottom. Most parts should
> be "off the shelf ". The forces at work are repulsion on one side attraction
> on the other. When the most vertical spoke approaches the repulsion area it
> moves down to help the rotor move past this area of resistance and after
> moving to an area of less repulsion it moves back up the spoke into a
> repulsion mode to help in turning the rotor.
> See it at  <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte
> Research site 1</A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
> Also it will soon be on the PFEUL web site.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 18:53:58 1999
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Message-Id: <199908220156.WAA14598@bigbox.plug-in.com.br>
From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
Organization: Computec Ltda
To: interact@Keelynet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:54:19 -3
Subject: New electrical transformers will improve power quality
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http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~esac 

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/990716.Sudhoff.transformer.html
 
Image:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sudhoff.transformers.jpeg



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 20:45:13 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 23:44:13 EDT
Subject: Emails I have not answered
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I'm sorry I haven't answered all the emails I have received. With 3 teenagers 
and all
I have very little time but will try to reply to all.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 20:48:55 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 23:47:59 EDT
Subject: See new pushmepullyou on PFEUL site
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 <A HREF="http://web.triton.net/edkl/pfeul/index.htm">www.pfeul.com</A>  for 
new animations and layouts

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 23:12:13 1999
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Subject: Re: New electrical transformers will improve power quality
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At 10:54 PM 8/21/99 -3, Marcelo wrote:
>
>http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/990716.Sudhoff.transformer.html
>
"Solid state transformer", most likely microprocessor controlled?
Interesting, looks like parallel switchmode power supplies and I guess
inverters. The image had about 24 toroids and 12 iron core transformers in
rows.

An advantage of the iron core type transformer is that they can last 80
years or more. I wonder how many power supply duty electrolytic capacitors
will last that long, lightning and all, computer switching psu's being an
example data point? Some computer grade type of capacitors I have (the kind
with screw terminals) have passed 25 years. Personally I have burned out
many more semiconductors than transformers...
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 21 23:47:50 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
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Secret Government Study
Reveals Massive Y2K
Problems in American Cities 
<A HREF="http://www.JimLord.to/">http://www.JimLord.to/</A>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 00:07:31 1999
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Hi Felix and all,

>
>I think, the problem here is, that many times the plans in the patent
>do not represent a running machine correctly.
>
>This is done many times INTENTIONALLY to prevent copying.

True enough, but in this case the photographs in the article do appear to be
close to what is given in the patent.

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 13:56:33 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <e8791f1.24f1bdb2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:55:14 EDT
Subject: The PFT v2.0, a working mock-up of a future spaceship...
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

Today I have conducted an important experiment about the PFT project (The 
Poynting Flow Thruster Project).

The PFT v2.0 is a working mock-up of a future spaceship which uses the motion 
of an asymmetrical Poynting Flow for generating a thrust.

During a charging process of a flat capacitor, the Poynting vector ( S=ExH ) 
comes from outside the capacitor towards the wire connections, parallel to 
the surface of the armatures inside the dielectric medium. There is an energy 
flow directly proportional to ExB. This energy is not provided by the wires 
but comes from the surrounding space around the capacitor. 
An asymmetrical energy flow during the charging process of a flat capacitor 
is able to generate a thrust, this has been fully demonstrated with the PFT 
v1.0 device and also fully confirmed by the "proof of concept" experiment. 

You will find all diagrams, pictures and videos about the PFT v2.0 at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft02.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 16:16:59 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Diodic condition
Message-Id: <935363650.153.748@excite.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:14:10 PDT
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:17:56 -0400, Harvey Norris was quoted:

> >If it were possible, then instead of using the falling waters of Niagra
> >Falls to turn massive generators to produce electricity, it should be
> >possible to allow the waters to fall through a spiral tubing of cohered
E
> >and B fields and have the actual water molecule to assume the duty of
the
> >generator; by making it produce a spin within a spin  on its
gravitational
> >conversion of energy. This is very far fetched and this is not a science
> >fiction list, but I have mentioned it as a precursor to the inverse
idea,
> >which I will now merit.
J Shaffer replied 
> Maybe Schauberger was doing this?
It is my understanding that Shauberger was able to reduce the resistance of
actual water flow in a tube that had a logarithmic spiral or a shape
according to a mathematical thing called the Fibbonicci series?(ready for
flac on the spelling, all comments welcome) T Henry Moray did an excellent
free energy video back in 94 for ITS entitled Vaccum Energy Vortices, and I
think he also published Zero Point Energy for ITS. In the video he explained
that Schauberger actually somehow showed that instead of a tube having a
resistance to flow, in special conditions that factor could be made as a
resultant "negative or opposite resistance to flow", sort of a double
negative being positive... I have no idea about those facts but...

This summer I became involved in producing magnetized water for my tomatoe
garden which delivered fantastic productivity. In my initial experimentation
I used a commonly available funnel obtained from the hardware store but
something about this vortex just didnt seem right. Then I remembered that my
brother had once saved a unique funnel that was used in a promotion for some
charity where when you put coins into a slot and they roll into this shallow
shaped funnel where it becomes fascinating how that rolling coin on edge
resembles the orbit of a satellite secumbing to gravity in that it picks up
speed before entering the hole and makes quite a few revolutions before
doing this. 

Sometimes it is most remarkable how correlations in life happen by simply
remembering something that puzzles one and looking at the situation again in
a fresh outlook. This has happened in the very making of this post! I went
into situation knowing I had no idea of how Schauberger effect could be
noted, but like a light bulb of an idea this has now occured to me:

It is a common demonstration in college physics of taking 2 equal mass
cylinders on an inclined plane and rolling them to see which reaches the
bottom first. The experiment involves one cylinder to be hollowed out of a
denser material so that its mass density is correspondingly greater on the
edges than the other homogenous cylinder, yet both weigh the same.(I am
actually unsure whether even their respective weights are relevant in this
case but nevertheless to finish the idea I continue)  The hollow cylinder
has MORE of its translation momentum converted to angular momentum because
most of its mass is at the edges of rotation.
Thus it rolls slower as its expression of translational
movement. Now take a similar thinking to the idea of the rolling coins as a
slice or cross section of a rolling cylinder as in the previous example.

IN THE FIRST CASE AN INCLINED PLANE ON 2 DIMENSIONS OFFERED A METHOD OF
CONVERTING A PERCENTAGE OF THE TRANSLATIONAL MOMENTUM INTO ANGULAR
MOMENTUM.

IF THIS AMOUNT OF PERCENTAGE CONVERSION IS NOW COMPARED TO THAT OF THE COIN
ROLLING DOWN THE 3 DIMENSIONAL VORTEX PATH OF THE SPECIAL FUNNEL WE FIND
THAT BY THE TIME AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF THE GRAVITATIONAL POTENTIAL ENERGY HAS
BEEN CHANGED INTO KINETIC ENERGY OF TRANSLATIONAL MOMENTUM AND ANGULAR
MOMENTUM, IN THE SECOND CASE THE AMOUNT CONVERTED TO ANGULAR OR SPIN HAS
BECOME MUCH GREATER THAN THE FORMER. IN FACT THAT SPIN ITSELF MAY HAVE AN
ASSOCIATED TRANSLATIONAL MOMENTUM THAT EXCEEDS THE MOMENTUM THAT WOULD BE
ORDINARILY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MOMENTUM THAT GRAVITY ALONE WOULD PRODUCE IF
THE MASS WERE IN FREE FALL WITH NO SPIN CONVERSION BEING MADE.(Me thinks
this close to an explanation of Schauberger effect, but please read on to
see inverse bell effect.)

Now when I remembered this special vortex or large funnel I asked my brother
about this, and as it turns out it was in our attic. I used this funnel to
make the magnetic water that could hold over 100 gallons at a time into a
holding tank, that went to a drip irrigation system. The difference between
this funnel and a conventional plastic funnel bought in a hardware store is
that when you look at the cross-section as if it were sliced down the radial
center, the store bought is linear or straight and the other resembles a
logarithmic curve as a cross section. Additionally the conventional funnel
has a much smaller opening than the special one. The special funnel will
allow most all the water flow to occur on the edges of its internal vortex
circumference, analogous to a hollow rotating cylinder containing a better
percentage of angular momentum conversion. Additionally the ordinary funnel
contains a tapered end which doesnt make the desired function of what is
observed as an "inverse bell effect".

In the making of magnetized water I had long noted than when the containers
were filled from the storage tank they showed a peculiar tendency to hug the
sides before dropping by gravity in droplets: this was attributed to the
hypothetical increase or decrease of surface tension advocated by those in
the know...

So when I first made the stuff I didnt know that what happens after the
water is magnetised could be just as important as what happens beforehand as
it is created.
I do dimly remember this may have been mentioned by others, but I cannot
remember...

The shape of this funnel resembles a flattened bell and what doesnt often
get noticed is that after the water has gone through the funnel it by no
means falls straight downward by gravity but of course continues in the
manner of centrifugal acceleration it has been exposed to at the vortex. The
picture of this looks like the reflection of an inverted bell as the water
falls with the vortex being the center of a mirror image. This effect would
have never been noted if the water was merely filling a 5 gallon container
and not a 100 gallon. In the former case it would simply appear as a
presumed effect of surface tension of the water flowing into the small
diameter of the neck of the 5 gallon container, as previously noted.

This is quite off the topic of the original post of diodic condition.
Originally I wanted to note that producing a high frequency electric field
obtained by a binary resonant arc gap as contained by  a set of 60 hz
resonators as elaborated in
http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/index.html?mlD=3101 (dont know if an
archive address takes, this was made 4/30/99 as 3rd diagram try)has been
shown by experiment to allow twice the battery amperage conduction across a
water sample, than would occur if this high frequency electric field were
not present at 90 degrees to the battery conduction current.
Sincerly HDN
Binary Resonant System;
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201







________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 17:22:46 1999
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References: <935363650.153.748@excite.com>
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Any comments on the below?

http://www.enterprisemission.com/

          8/19/99 -   "Inside Source" provides Details of "Impact Events"
          8/19/99 -   Did Hoagland/Bell August 18th Comet Discussion Trigger
Another National Story ..?
          8/18/99 -   Something Wicked This Way Comes ...
          8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse (


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 17:23:17 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Bad Address link
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I noticed in the previous letter to freenrg that when I copied an address
from the freenrg archives and then  sent it as a link when I tried to access
it in the letter I recieved on the discussion list, that link did not work.
Apparently this is a no-no or I incorrectly wrote the address. I placed the
same letter at http://www.pupman.com/ under BRAG schematic in May archives
for any wishing to view this.

Recently some bounced mails caused me to be automatically unsubscribed to
freenrg list.
Does anyone know whether listing an actual archive address can do this? HDN




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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 22 18:35:04 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The PFT v2.0, a working mock-up of a future spaceship...
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On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:55:14 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> Today I have conducted an important experiment about the PFT project (The

> Poynting Flow Thruster Project).
> 
> The PFT v2.0 is a working mock-up of a future spaceship which uses the
motion 
> of an asymmetrical Poynting Flow for generating a thrust.
> 
> During a charging process of a flat capacitor, the Poynting vector ( S=ExH
) 
> comes from outside the capacitor towards the wire connections, parallel to

> the surface of the armatures inside the dielectric medium. There is an
energy 
> flow directly proportional to ExB. This energy is not provided by the
wires 
> but comes from the surrounding space around the capacitor. 
If the Poynting vector delivers a charge movement across the plates
according
to the classical interpretation of displacement current producing a magnetic
field,                                          which in turn produces a
free charge movement, I fail to see how the analogy applies
to "the space surrounding  a capacitor." That is not the same thing as a
Cassimer effect
and this motion should be construed as a derived effect that occurs within
the two plate areas and not from the ouside.
> An asymmetrical energy flow during the charging process of a flat
capacitor 
> is able to generate a thrust, this has been fully demonstrated with the
PFT 
> v1.0 device and also fully confirmed by the "proof of concept" experiment.

> 
> You will find all diagrams, pictures and videos about the PFT v2.0 at :
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft02.htm
> 
> Best Regards
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> 





________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 00:51:33 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
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-----Original Message-----
From:	Rick Monteverde [SMTP:rick@highsurf.com]
Remi -
> (BTW what do you build these days?)
Thanks, I'm building a little business on eBay. When money comes, I'll open
up my "weird science" box again and start tinkering. Wanna buy a nice used
Aloha Shirt?  ;)
- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI
[]  No thanks if the shirt has a flower design on it :)
What's eBay - some form of ecommerce?
Remi.


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 05:29:42 1999
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On 22-Aug-99 Don Adams wrote:
> Any comments on the below?
> 
> http://www.enterprisemission.com/
>           8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse 

Vulcan, anybody?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 06:30:16 1999
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I need your help
----------------

I got the information that some people are
getting an error when accessing the New Energy Website:

http://www.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/

Please let me know if you get an error,
- with text of error message
- and with type and version of your browser.

I hope to solve the problem this way

many thanks
                           Felix

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 08:52:25 1999
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Subject: "Self-running" engine?
To: UNIR2B1@aol.com
CC: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (hamdi ucar), bodytemple@cwixmail.com,
        amlight@juno.com (Alicia), johnhoffman@webtv.net,
        atech@ix.netcom.com (Dennis C. Lee), brw549@iar.ne,
        chief@sundial.net (michael romack), dawnames@hotmail.com,
        door@camasnet.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall),
        FRANKARTINVENT@webtv.net (FRANK HOLMQUIST), freenrg-l@eskimo.com,
        powerfd@gte.net, rachelhome@bigfoot.com, richarda@icx.net,
        rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, ruizmall@webtv.net, Serwitz@aol.com,
        survival-ark@lyghtforce.com, candace1@usa.net, dpnichols@iswt.com,
        MilCrDan@aol.com, transnet@teleport.com, tri-r-spheres@webtv.net,
        trknute@earthlink.net, werosser@hotmail.com
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Hello, All

I just got the order form from Creative Science & Research (Bx 557 New Albany 
IN 47151) about their "easy to build, easy to follow plans" for a 2' x 2' x 
1' 350 HP, fuel-less, self-running engine advertised in the Popular Science 
classifieds.  Hmmm...

The types that I believe would work (e.g., Edwin Gray's self-charging, rotary 
electromagnetic motor) would NOT be easy, or even affordable, for me to build.

Creative Science & Research hasn't returned my call for prelim. info, but if 
anyone cares to follow up, perhaps we could compare notes...

Meantime, I'm collecting PROPANE.  Engines (generators, vehicles, gardening 
machines etc.) converted to LP fuel are virtually immortal.  LP refrigerators 
are reliable, efficient, effective and have NO moving parts to wear out, and 
vent-less IR heaters are the greatest heating innovation of all time.  

Could these appliances be adapted to ACETYLENE?  If so, one could stockpile a 
supply in the form of *calcium carbonate* (miner's' helmet fuel).  It 
wouldn't be as simple as "just add water"--there's a alkaline slurry 
by-product--but the idea of having several years of fuel stored in a compact, 
DRY form is intriguing...

_Acetylene, Its Properties, Mfr, & Uses_ 
by S. A. Miller 
Volume 1 deals w/ carbide

--Russ

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 09:50:35 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Subject: Re: I need your help 
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Hi Felix,

I had no trouble getting to your site with IE4.0 (version 4.72.3110)

>
>I got the information that some people are
>getting an error when accessing the New Energy Website:
>
>http://www.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/
>
>Please let me know if you get an error,
>- with text of error message
>- and with type and version of your browser.
>
>I hope to solve the problem this way
>
>many thanks
>                           Felix
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 09:50:38 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Subject: Re: off topic - Weird eclipse anomaly? 
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:44:11 -0700
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>Any comments on the below?
>
>http://www.enterprisemission.com/
>
>          8/19/99 -   "Inside Source" provides Details of "Impact Events"
>          8/19/99 -   Did Hoagland/Bell August 18th Comet Discussion
Trigger
>Another National Story ..?
>          8/18/99 -   Something Wicked This Way Comes ...
>          8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse (

Yes, these people need to get a life :-)

More seriously, at least once a month somebody now is predicting the end of
the world.  Remember Shoemaker-Levy? There were a lot of people who said
that was the end.  Then there is the Cassini flyby and on and on.  I used to
run a new age bookstore and a more fearful, doom-ridden group of people I've
never  seen.  When one calamity didn't happen they would be in my store next
week with another one, week after week, year after year. After a while I got
the picture. Sorry Charlie, it ain't gonna happen. All these prophets,
Nostradamus, Cayce, Scallion, have all been wrong, wrong, wrong, over and
over again.

There is a deep psychological need on the part of some people to expect an
apocalypse. One reason for this is that it is an "easy way out" from their
own problems and the real global problems we all face. It is a lot easier to
panic about a comet and then be relieved when it doesn't hit, than it is to
deal with the issues that are on your plate-- in other words, to get a life
:-)

Wake up and look around, doomers, we are here for the long term.  No
apocalypse and no "ascension". Are we going to make it nice or make it
miserable?

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 10:05:27 1999
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Subject: Re-Self-running engine
CC: hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (hamdi ucar), bodytemple@cwixmail.com,
        amlight@juno.com (Alicia), johnhoffman@webtv.net,
        atech@ix.netcom.com (Dennis C. Lee), brw549@iar.net,
        chief@sundial.net (michael romack), dawnames@hotmail.com,
        door@camasnet.com, ewall@infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall),
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        powerfd@gte.net, rachelhome@bigfoot.com, richarda@icx.net,
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        survival-ark@lyghtforce.com, candace1@usa.net, dpnichols@iswt.com,
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<< Hi Russ and all,
I have purchased same plans about 2 yrs a go, but I never attempted to build 
the machine
which is pulse capacitor high voltage engine. Such an experement I found out 
that would be little costly for me, capacitors would cost alone few hundred $ 
and the rest of the parts and the components you have to have a really have a 
good setup to be able to do it.
---I just couldn't spend my grocery money to do this experement that I wasn't 
too sure about it. 
But I have to say that I never gaved up the idea of selfrunning motor, many 
people did it therefore it must be possible to do it again, one way or 
another.

Please keep intouch folks, I like follow up on this subject

Mehmet.>>


 
 Hello, All
 
 I just got the order form from Creative Science & Research (Bx 557 New 
Albany 
 IN 47151) about their "easy to build, easy to follow plans" for a 2' x 2' x 
 1' 350 HP, fuel-less, self-running engine advertised in the Popular Science 
 classifieds.  Hmmm...
 
 The types that I believe would work (e.g., Edwin Gray's self-charging, 
rotary 
 electromagnetic motor) would NOT be easy affordable for me to build.
 
 Creative Science & Research hasn't returned my call for prelim. info, but if 
 anyone cares to follow up, perhaps we could compare notes... 

Russ    >>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 11:51:56 1999
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From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" <jdo@ucalgary.ca>
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Subject: Re: "Self-running engine"?
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You said:
"I just got the order form from Creative Science & Research (Bx 557 New
Albany IN 47151) about their "easy to build, easy to follow plans" for a 
2' x 2' x  1' 350 HP, fuel-less, self-running engine advertised in the 
Popular Science  classifieds."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ: Does anyone know of anyone who has built this machine? They have
been advertising this device for several years now, so many people must
have tried it by now. Does it work? When I talked to them several years
ago, they did not sound very scientific, but perhaps now they have
improved their information and device. I hope they return your message.
Jorg Ostrowski

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 11:53:18 1999
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Subject: Re: I need your help 
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick@highsurf.com>
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Felix -

>>I got the information that some people are
>>getting an error when accessing the New Energy Website:
>>
>>http://www.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/
>>
>>Please let me know if you get an error,
>>- with text of error message
>>- and with type and version of your browser.
>>
>>I hope to solve the problem this way
>>
>>many thanks
>>                           Felix

I bet the music on the first page is causing the error. Some older browsers
or those running in a small memory partition will get an error. It's always
a very bad idea to force music, movies, large pictures, etc., on browsers
hitting your entry and index page. You automatically freeze a certain
percentage of people out that way, and you end up irritating most of the
rest of them. It is considered good modern web design to make your index
page very fast loading and free of any fancy tricks at all, and then give
people the option of navigating to pages with fancy stuff that need lots of
memory and the most recent browsers for people to be able to deal with them.

Good luck,

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 13:31:00 1999
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Message-ID: <37C19528.82D25D94@telusplanet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:38:33 -0500
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Fred,

I tend to agree with you.  However, it seems that Hoagland often has an uncanny
way of discovering things....

cheers all

Fred Epps wrote:

> >Any comments on the below?
> >
> >http://www.enterprisemission.com/
> >
> >          8/19/99 -   "Inside Source" provides Details of "Impact Events"
> >          8/19/99 -   Did Hoagland/Bell August 18th Comet Discussion
> Trigger
> >Another National Story ..?
> >          8/18/99 -   Something Wicked This Way Comes ...
> >          8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse (
>
> Yes, these people need to get a life :-)
>
> More seriously, at least once a month somebody now is predicting the end of
> the world.  Remember Shoemaker-Levy? There were a lot of people who said
> that was the end.  Then there is the Cassini flyby and on and on.  I used to
> run a new age bookstore and a more fearful, doom-ridden group of people I've
> never  seen.  When one calamity didn't happen they would be in my store next
> week with another one, week after week, year after year. After a while I got
> the picture. Sorry Charlie, it ain't gonna happen. All these prophets,
> Nostradamus, Cayce, Scallion, have all been wrong, wrong, wrong, over and
> over again.
>
> There is a deep psychological need on the part of some people to expect an
> apocalypse. One reason for this is that it is an "easy way out" from their
> own problems and the real global problems we all face. It is a lot easier to
> panic about a comet and then be relieved when it doesn't hit, than it is to
> deal with the issues that are on your plate-- in other words, to get a life
> :-)
>
> Wake up and look around, doomers, we are here for the long term.  No
> apocalypse and no "ascension". Are we going to make it nice or make it
> miserable?
>
> Fred



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 15:41:47 1999
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Subject:  Weird eclipse pendulum anomaly?
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so what happened to the pendulum??? any real data??? anyone???


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 16:03:15 1999
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From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Self-running engine"?
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:02:21 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <37c1d291.87588146@mail-hub>
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On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:24:21 EDT, UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>supply in the form of *calcium carbonate* (miner's' helmet fuel).  It 
[snip]
Acetylene is more dangerous than propane, and that's calcium carbide,
not carbonate.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Subject: Re:  Weird eclipse pendulum anomaly?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:22:07 -0700
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>so what happened to the pendulum??? any real data??? anyone???

I've written to Dr. Noever, head of the NASA project and he wrote back and
said, "we just don't know yet".

It takes time to process that much data.


Fred



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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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Subject: Amin Cycle/Entropy Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:50:57 -0400
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Long ago I ran a BBS when most people didn't know what a
MODEM was, Sanjay Amin was a frequent caller to my system as
he liked all of the odd-ball files I had there, since he was
not far from my system.

So you can find a bit of info on his device at my web site,
tho it is more theory than about the Air Conditioning thing,
that is a few years old.

I have not yet seen his engines, but I'll see if I can some
time soon, as he is not far from my Parents place.

I have seen his Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC'S
device in operation and it does what he claims.  It will
reduce ambient air temperature by up to 30 degrees, I don't
recall if that was 'C or 'F for sure but I think it was 'C.


It seems that Sanjay has been up to Some Interesting Stuff:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:39:17 EDT
Subject: Hello Bob, This is Sanjay.

Hello Bob.

  How are you? Havent talked to you for quiet a while now.  We have opened 
our brand new website selling engines and refrigerators running on the Amin 
Cycle. the url is:      http://www.entropysystems.com
Also look at the following magazines for more information on our engines.
September 1999 issue of :  Physics Today
September 1999 issue of :  Mechanical Engineering Magazine.
September 20, 1999 issue of :  Applied Journal of Physics Letters
September 24, 1999 issue of:  Science

[If any of you get those I'd like a copy for my file.]

Keep in touch Bob.  Hope to talk to you soon

Sincerely,
Sanjay Amin

Entropy Systems Inc.,
8150 Market Street
Youngstown, OH 44512, USA.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Some bits from their web site:

http://www.entropysystems.com/

Entropy Systems, Inc.

U.S. Patents # 5,547,341 & 5,765,387

We sell beta versions of Engines, which produce zero
emissions and convert atmospheric heat to power.
[At $75,000 I don't think many of us here are going to be
running out and buying one.]

Entropy Engines produce zero emissions & do not use any
environmentally harmful chemicals.

Entropy Engines can operate by converting heat at any
temperature to power and the by-product is clean
refrigerated air.

Entropy Engines have efficiencies higher than any
conventional Refrigerators, Engines or Fuel Cells.

Entropy Engines can operate as both a power plant and a
refrigerator.

Typical uses: For Refrigeration, Air-conditioning & as an
engine for: Generators, Outboard motors, Lawn-mowers,
Compressors & Autos.

We also design, manufacture, and sell custom built machines
according to customer specifications.

[Don't mean to make it look like a sales pitch, the only
thing I've ever gotten out of it is a book.  Thought the
technologies was interesting since it went against the
Guardians of Status Quo.]


 -------------------------------------------------------------
 -------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:49:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Hello Bob, This is Sanjay.

Thanks Bob for the emails:

    All the copies of the book are sold out. I will have to make a decision 
to print a second edition of the book. I will let you know on that. I will 
also provide you details on the news release as we approach closer to that 
date.

Sincerely,
Sanjay


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:39:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Hello Bob, This is Sanjay.

Hello Bob:

Technical and theoretical information on Entropy Engines is now available. 
Please inform all your members to check out the information.

Sincerely,

Sanjay Amin


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
*CHEMICAL FREE AIR CONDITIONING/NO CFC'S*, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

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Subject: Re: off topic - Weird eclipse anomaly? 
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----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Epps <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: off topic - Weird eclipse anomaly?


>
>
> >Any comments on the below?
> >
> >http://www.enterprisemission.com/
> >
> >          8/19/99 -   "Inside Source" provides Details of "Impact Events"
> >          8/19/99 -   Did Hoagland/Bell August 18th Comet Discussion
> Trigger
> >Another National Story ..?
> >          8/18/99 -   Something Wicked This Way Comes ...
> >          8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse (
>
> Yes, these people need to get a life :-)
>
> More seriously, at least once a month somebody now is predicting the end
of
> the world.  Remember Shoemaker-Levy? There were a lot of people who said
> that was the end.  Then there is the Cassini flyby and on and on.  I used
to
> run a new age bookstore and a more fearful, doom-ridden group of people
I've
> never  seen.  When one calamity didn't happen they would be in my store
next
> week with another one, week after week, year after year. After a while I
got
> the picture. Sorry Charlie, it ain't gonna happen. All these prophets,
> Nostradamus, Cayce, Scallion, have all been wrong, wrong, wrong, over and
> over again.
>
> There is a deep psychological need on the part of some people to expect an
> apocalypse. One reason for this is that it is an "easy way out" from their
> own problems and the real global problems we all face. It is a lot easier
to
> panic about a comet and then be relieved when it doesn't hit, than it is
to
> deal with the issues that are on your plate-- in other words, to get a
life
> :-)
>
> Wake up and look around, doomers, we are here for the long term.  No
> apocalypse and no "ascension". Are we going to make it nice or make it
> miserable?
>
> Fred


It's bound to happen now youv'e said that Fred !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 20:28:38 1999
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Bob Paddock wrote:

>
> I have seen his Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC'S
> device in operation and it does what he claims.  It will
> reduce ambient air temperature by up to 30 degrees, I don't
> recall if that was 'C or 'F for sure but I think it was 'C.

 Heh, I remember this! It's based on the Rovac Cycle. Air entered the
compressor
at ambient temp & 14.7psi. The compressor stuffs it up to 150+ psi and then
runs it thru a radiator, the compression of course has increased the air's temp
to +100F
even if the ambient temp is 95-100F this means that there is still a 100F
temperature
difference between the ambient and the compressed air. Hence, the ambient air
flow
over the radiator extracts that 100F and now the compressed air is routed to
the
expandor side of the rotary pump, where it loses it's pressure, and in doing so
put's
BACK some of the work energy that was used to compress it. The air is now at
14.7 psi again and as a result is very cold!

 Simple thermodynamics, no mystery.  Chrysler was going to put this system into

their 1976 cars and then the govt gave the auto industry a break by
rescheduling the
cutoff date for removing the common CFC FREONs from a/c systems. Chrysler
just shelved the patent and forgot about it! There had been a full article in
Science
and Mechanics magazine which gave the system high praise back in 1975 or so.

 And so it goes...

        Erik



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 21:17:46 1999
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From: UNIR2B1@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:16:20 EDT
Subject: Re: "Self-running engine"?
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In a message dated 99-08-23 14:54:10 EDT, you write:

>Russ: Does anyone know of anyone who has built this machine? They have
>been advertising this device for several years now, so many people must
>have tried it by now. Does it work? When I talked to them several years
>ago, they did not sound very scientific, but perhaps now they have
>improved their information and device. I hope they return your message.
>Jorg Ostrowski

I asked [you] first!  Nya, nya!

From SaveTheTrees@madferit.co.uk  Mon Aug 23 21:22:31 1999
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From: SaveTheTrees@madferit.co.uk
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 23 21:25:05 1999
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In a message dated 99-08-23 19:04:53 EDT, you write:

> that's calcium carbide,
>not carbonate.

Of course...low blood sugar.  

If not gassified under precise conditions, carbide by-products other than the 
desired gas can arise, e.g., acetylene polymers.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 04:39:10 1999
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The good stuff is at the end. First a little background. Awhile back I sent
off for plans for the GEET device. Since then I have built five versions on
a 14 H.P. engine. I have not been able to improve my fuel economy with
these devices but some oddities did occur. The first one happened with the
very first setup I used. I tried to run each test for twenty minutes at
2000 RPM. The setup required constant attention and when the run was almost
over the engine sputtered and went to about half speed. After resetting the
mix I noticed that the exhaust was cool, maybe 70 degrees on a 100 degree
day. This lasted for about 45 seconds and I was never able to repeat the
effect. The next unusual effect was the tendency of the exhaust to be
nearly pollution free at intermittent and random times even during the same
test run. Never was the effect long lasting or predictable. Both of these
were predicted by the GEET plans. I became frustrated at trying to get
information from GEET and decided to build my own version of a vapor carb
based on a combination of ideas from the IBM patent server. Several of
these patents speak of using a metal catalyst in the intake manifold to
break down the fuel in to more combustible parts. Virtually all of these
patents use the exhaust to heat the incoming fuel and some use additional
heaters as well. 
	With all this in mind perhaps there is one among you who has a reasonable,
conventional explanation of the following. Instead of an exotic metal
catalyst with an added heat source the following setup was used. An intake
tube of 1.125 in. inside diameter was inserted into an exhaust tube of 1.5
in. inside diameter with the air flow in both tubes flowing in the same
direction. The tubes were 24 inches long and made of mild steel.  A  cast
iron rod  of  about .5 in. in diameter and 8 in. was laid in the inner pipe
within 2 in. of the exhaust valve and about 1.25 in. from the normal carb.
The rod was prevented from moving towards the muffler by a .125 in. steel
rod. An adjustable air bleed was located in the intake tube .5 in. from the
carb. This was to lean out the mix after the engine was started. This was
to be my last experiment with vapor carbs. The rod was not fastened to the
intake tube in any way nor was there any reasonable expectation that it
would get warm enough to function as a catalyst or as a means to further
vaporize the mixture. Ten minutes into the test run the exhaust was just as
nasty as normal and daylight was running out. The rod was pulled from the
warm engine and inspected. It had turned a bright cobalt blue from one end
to the other. My text indicated that this had been subjected to a
temperature of between 560 and 570 degrees. HOW!  GEET speaks of an
unexplained "plasma effect". This rod laying in an airstream made cold by
evaporating gasoline and rushing ambient air had turned bright blue in ten
minutes. I am continuing these experiments with a different engine. The
first engine and the setup have been left as they were for the time being.
Any and all comments are welcome. More to come after this weekend.
Garry

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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Amin Cycle/Entropy Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:31:12 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
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> Heh, I remember this! It's based on the Rovac Cycle. Air
>entered the compressor at ambient temp & 14.7psi. The
>compressor stuffs it up to 150+ psi and then runs it thru a
>radiator, the compression of course has increased the air's
>temp to +100F

There is no 100F or radiator involved in the device that I
saw a few years ago.  It seemed to be more about the shape
of the various parts.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 07:20:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:19:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" <jdo@ucalgary.ca>
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Garry: Thank you for your interesting report. Have you tried to run the
GEET engine on 100% (or even 80%) water? Jorg Ostrowski
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Garry Whitman wrote:

> 
> The good stuff is at the end. First a little background. Awhile back I sent
> off for plans for the GEET device. Since then I have built five versions on
> a 14 H.P. engine. I have not been able to improve my fuel economy with
> these devices but some oddities did occur. The first one happened with the
> very first setup I used. I tried to run each test for twenty minutes at
> 2000 RPM. The setup required constant attention and when the run was almost
> over the engine sputtered and went to about half speed. After resetting the
> mix I noticed that the exhaust was cool, maybe 70 degrees on a 100 degree
> day. This lasted for about 45 seconds and I was never able to repeat the
> effect. The next unusual effect was the tendency of the exhaust to be
> nearly pollution free at intermittent and random times even during the same
> test run. Never was the effect long lasting or predictable. Both of these
> were predicted by the GEET plans. I became frustrated at trying to get
> information from GEET and decided to build my own version of a vapor carb
> based on a combination of ideas from the IBM patent server. Several of
> these patents speak of using a metal catalyst in the intake manifold to
> break down the fuel in to more combustible parts. Virtually all of these
> patents use the exhaust to heat the incoming fuel and some use additional
> heaters as well. 
> 	With all this in mind perhaps there is one among you who has a reasonable,
> conventional explanation of the following. Instead of an exotic metal
> catalyst with an added heat source the following setup was used. An intake
> tube of 1.125 in. inside diameter was inserted into an exhaust tube of 1.5
> in. inside diameter with the air flow in both tubes flowing in the same
> direction. The tubes were 24 inches long and made of mild steel.  A  cast
> iron rod  of  about .5 in. in diameter and 8 in. was laid in the inner pipe
> within 2 in. of the exhaust valve and about 1.25 in. from the normal carb.
> The rod was prevented from moving towards the muffler by a .125 in. steel
> rod. An adjustable air bleed was located in the intake tube .5 in. from the
> carb. This was to lean out the mix after the engine was started. This was
> to be my last experiment with vapor carbs. The rod was not fastened to the
> intake tube in any way nor was there any reasonable expectation that it
> would get warm enough to function as a catalyst or as a means to further
> vaporize the mixture. Ten minutes into the test run the exhaust was just as
> nasty as normal and daylight was running out. The rod was pulled from the
> warm engine and inspected. It had turned a bright cobalt blue from one end
> to the other. My text indicated that this had been subjected to a
> temperature of between 560 and 570 degrees. HOW!  GEET speaks of an
> unexplained "plasma effect". This rod laying in an airstream made cold by
> evaporating gasoline and rushing ambient air had turned bright blue in ten
> minutes. I am continuing these experiments with a different engine. The
> first engine and the setup have been left as they were for the time being.
> Any and all comments are welcome. More to come after this weekend.
> Garry
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 13:00:19 1999
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Message-ID: <37C2EB60.FDB89F8A@datacomm.ch>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:58:40 +0200
From: Felix Meyer <hb9abx@datacomm.ch>
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Felix Meyer schrieb:
> 
> I need your help
> ----------------
> 
> I got the information that some people are
> getting an error when accessing the New Energy Website:
> 
> http://www.datacomm.ch/hb9abx/
> 
> Please let me know if you get an error,
>  ...   snip

Hi all,

many thanks for all replies which I received to the above message.
I did receive many good suggestions.

In order to speed up loading and prevent
errors in some configurations I have removed
the automatic sound and picture on the Index Page.
Sound and picture can be selected on the page.

				Felix

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 13:01:17 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:59:46 EDT
Subject: Do you agree with this?
To: energy21@listbot.com
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On my web site the first picture is of a iron bar tapered to point.
Above it is a magnet.
If the magnet is allowed to move parallel to the top of the bar a small drag 
is felt as you move it to the right.
The taper allows you to move the magnet away from the iron with less force 
but over a longer distance, taking the same amount of work to remove it away 
from the bar as compared to just pulling it straight up from it's starting 
point.
Now, if you move it to the right again, but allow it to be pulled toward the 
surface of the bar, a certain amount of work can be done by the magnet in the 
act of pulling it's self to the bar surface as shown by the green line.
Now the total work the person has to put into moving the magnet away from the 
bar is greater because the magnet is closer to the surface of the bar.
Now if you subtract the work done by the magnet pulling it's self to the 
surface of the bar from the work done by you pulling the magnet away from the 
bar, then the work done is the same as when you pulled the magnet parallel in 
the first movement.
Do you agree?
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte 
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A> or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 14:42:42 1999
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:50:10 -0500
From: Don Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
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Subject: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
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Last night I had a rather odd experience.  I've been working on a small experiment
and had a bunch of parts strewn about the floor, most of which arent important to
mention here, however the following parts I mention here were involved with the odd
experience.....

        2 Silver Chloride electrode pads - taken from an Alpha Stim set (high quality)

        1 pair of pad connect wires -  - taken from an Alpha Stim set (high quality)
        2 aligator clip wires
        1, 3 ply orgone blanket
        1 mattress
        1 4000 gauss mag sleep pad
        1 mid quality Multi meter
        1 tape recorder microphone jack and cable

heres what happened, while working on some stuff in another room I dumped the above
temporarily on my bed, just to get it out of the way.  I had an old mic jack and cable

I had used for a small portable tape recorder I had used previously which I had cut
the microphone off and had spliced the wire exposing the two wire ends.  To these wire

ends I attached alligator clip cables, which  to the other end of the alligator clips
were
attached the electrode wire cables which in turn connected to the electrode pads.
The multimeter was attached to the electrodes and I dumped the lot on my bed.
On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under my mattress
is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to the 200mV
setting and it started fluctuating wildly... going as high as 41.70, but averaging
always between
22 to 28.00 approx.  There was no power source connected to any of the wires.  I
thought
maybe there was something weird going on with the meter and pads maybe picking up the
cycling
AC current in the condo, so I took all this stuff out to the living room and put it on
the floor.
I figured if its just picking up ambient floating charge from the walls then I should
get a similiar
reading away from the orgone blanket.  I didnt, while the meter still fluctuated and
gave readings
just sitting on the carpet the readings were wild and no casual, discernable average
could be read
however when I went back to the orgone blanket it settled down again at the previously
mentioned range.  I tried disconnecting all the wires from the pads and connected the
meter only to the pads
while resting on the blanket... again, same result.  I am certain there must be a most
obvious
explanation to all this... as I am not an electronics wiz I am guessing I'm missing
something horribly obvious.  Is it just some sort of anomalous flaw in the meter?  Can
anyone provide insight into this?

Thx,

Don







From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 15:22:38 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <donadams@telusplanet.net>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:17:01 -0700
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Hi Don,

Thanks for the interesting report!

Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at

http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm

and a friend of mine's recent replication at:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html

These experiments show that oracs can affect meter readings. Whether this
force is indeed electric current in the wires is still up for debate. I
recommend that experimenters try to replicate these tests to add to the body
of knowledge of em/orgone interactions. This may lead to a usable energy
source.

Also take a look at:

http://orgone.org/articles/ax8ernst-mag1.htm

and

http://www.orgone.org/unvsci/zzmag-orac1.htm

for compass measurements of the "magnetic field" of an orac.

It might also be said that a magnetic has an "orgone field" since Hans
Reichenbach's sensitives saw energy flows from the ends of a magnet, and
several researchers,  Roy Eugene Davis and Oliver Crane being two random
examples, have described cw (S) and ccw (N) energy vortices coming from the
two ends of a magnet.
The differing healing effects from the two ends of a magnet cannot be
accounted for by the normal flux orientations of a magnet, though they are
easily explainable in terms of vortical forces.

It has been my view for a while now that all phenomena of orgone, chi,
prana, etc. can be explained in terms of vortical electromagnetic fields,
where the E and B vectors are parallel.  These configurations are more
stable than standard fields, and can also explain ball lightning, charge
clusters, plasma phenomena, etc.
This also relates to the faster than light "torsion field" area.

If such a field emanates from an orgone "accumulator" (and I do not think it
accumulates anything but acts as a waveguide) then the presence of a magnet
might "untwist" some of this trapped em energy and make it detectible by a
meter, and available for use.

Fred



>On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under
my mattress
>is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to
the 200mV
>setting and it started fluctuating wildly... going as high as 41.70, but
averaging
>always between
>22 to 28.00 approx <snip> Is it just some sort of anomalous flaw in the
meter?  Can
>anyone provide insight into this?
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 16:46:51 1999
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:54:38 -0500
From: Don Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
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Hi Fred,

greatly appreciate your comments and feedback!  Will check out the sights you
mentioned!

Cheers!

Don

:)

Fred Epps wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> Thanks for the interesting report!
>
> Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
> this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
> evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
> Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at
>
> http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm
>
> and a friend of mine's recent replication at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html
>
> These experiments show that oracs can affect meter readings. Whether this
> force is indeed electric current in the wires is still up for debate. I
> recommend that experimenters try to replicate these tests to add to the body
> of knowledge of em/orgone interactions. This may lead to a usable energy
> source.
>
> Also take a look at:
>
> http://orgone.org/articles/ax8ernst-mag1.htm
>
> and
>
> http://www.orgone.org/unvsci/zzmag-orac1.htm
>
> for compass measurements of the "magnetic field" of an orac.
>
> It might also be said that a magnetic has an "orgone field" since Hans
> Reichenbach's sensitives saw energy flows from the ends of a magnet, and
> several researchers,  Roy Eugene Davis and Oliver Crane being two random
> examples, have described cw (S) and ccw (N) energy vortices coming from the
> two ends of a magnet.
> The differing healing effects from the two ends of a magnet cannot be
> accounted for by the normal flux orientations of a magnet, though they are
> easily explainable in terms of vortical forces.
>
> It has been my view for a while now that all phenomena of orgone, chi,
> prana, etc. can be explained in terms of vortical electromagnetic fields,
> where the E and B vectors are parallel.  These configurations are more
> stable than standard fields, and can also explain ball lightning, charge
> clusters, plasma phenomena, etc.
> This also relates to the faster than light "torsion field" area.
>
> If such a field emanates from an orgone "accumulator" (and I do not think it
> accumulates anything but acts as a waveguide) then the presence of a magnet
> might "untwist" some of this trapped em energy and make it detectible by a
> meter, and available for use.
>
> Fred
>
> >On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under
> my mattress
> >is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to
> the 200mV
> >setting and it started fluctuating wildly... going as high as 41.70, but
> averaging
> >always between
> >22 to 28.00 approx <snip> Is it just some sort of anomalous flaw in the
> meter?  Can
> >anyone provide insight into this?
> >



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 17:55:45 1999
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From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:54:42 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <37c53e5b.180745289@mail-hub>
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On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:50:10 -0500, Don Adams wrote:
[snip]
>On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under my mattress
>is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to 

I'm not familiar with magnetic sleep pads. Is it just a permanent
magnet, or does it run on AC from the grid?

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 18:09:47 1999
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From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Amin Cycle/Entropy Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:08:52 GMT
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On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:27:43 -0700, eks1 wrote:
[snip]
> Heh, I remember this! It's based on the Rovac Cycle. Air entered the
>compressor
>at ambient temp & 14.7psi. The compressor stuffs it up to 150+ psi and then
>runs it thru a radiator, the compression of course has increased the air's temp
>to +100F
>even if the ambient temp is 95-100F this means that there is still a 100F
>temperature
>difference between the ambient and the compressed air. Hence, the ambient air
>flow
>over the radiator extracts that 100F and now the compressed air is routed to
>the
>expandor side of the rotary pump, where it loses it's pressure, and in doing so
>put's
>BACK some of the work energy that was used to compress it. The air is now at
>14.7 psi again and as a result is very cold!
>
> Simple thermodynamics, no mystery.  
[snip]
This is also what I was initially reminded of when I first saw it.
However after careful examination of the site, I'm not so sure.
The inventor claims to actually have an OU device, or more correctly, to
violate the second law of thermodynamics. I tend to believe that this is
possible, because I can describe a thought experiment that results in
just such a violation, yet in which none of the individual parts violate
any thermodynamics laws.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 18:12:46 1999
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From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:12:34 -0500 (EST)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Make a Magnet
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     While tinkering with some idea's, I came across something that
might be of use.  I was looking for some way to have a magnet with
ramdom poles on two sides.
I took some very strong magnets and crushed them with a hammer till I
got a magnetic mulch.  Then shaped this into a square on cardboard and
super glued it together.  The final result was a magnet not as strong as
before, but still a magnet with different poles all over it. 
    How many times have you wished you could find a magnet of a certain
shape or size but had to settle with what you had.
 This might be a way to design your own with the poles where you want
them.
 Make a form  say a square out of plastic and stuff your magnetic mulch
into it. Now take a strong magnet to one side and this mulch will alien
itself with the opposite poles  to that magnet. Creating one pole on one
side of the square. Fill it with super glue and it stays that way,  
  How about a curved form or ball with the same poles all around. Have
not tryed these but it seems possible that one could do this. Create a
magnet to the shape you want and then put the poles where you want them
by touching a magnet to different spots on the form. Comments?
                                             RB   

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 18:46:39 1999
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From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <stk@sunherald.infi.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Steel wire
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:41:30 -0500
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Hi:

I am in need of thin gauge steel wire. It does not have to be insulated,
but must be of 33 gauge or thinner. If anyone knows where I can get about
1200 feet of this, and how much I can expect to pay, let me know.

Kyle R. Mcallister

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 18:53:30 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Make a Magnet
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:59:45 -0400
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Hey! That sounds pretty cool.  There have been some things that I wanted to
do, and have some junk magnets, but not in the right shape or dimension.
Thanks for the idea.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 21:17:05 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
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Hi Butch,
At 03:59 PM 8/24/99 EDT, you wrote:
>On my web site the first picture is of a iron bar tapered to point.
>Above it is a magnet.
>If the magnet is allowed to move parallel to the top of the bar a small drag 
>is felt as you move it to the right.
>The taper allows you to move the magnet away from the iron with less force 
>but over a longer distance, taking the same amount of work to remove it away 
>from the bar as compared to just pulling it straight up from it's starting 
>point.
The horizontal travel might require more work with real world iron,
shifting domains, etc.

>Now, if you move it to the right again, but allow it to be pulled toward the 
>surface of the bar, a certain amount of work can be done by the magnet in
the 
>act of pulling it's self to the bar surface as shown by the green line.
>Now the total work the person has to put into moving the magnet away from
the 
>bar is greater because the magnet is closer to the surface of the bar.
>Now if you subtract the work done by the magnet pulling it's self to the 
>surface of the bar from the work done by you pulling the magnet away from
the 
>bar, then the work done is the same as when you pulled the magnet parallel
in 
>the first movement.
>Do you agree?
The iron would see higher fields and have more loss. Besides that, I agree.

>Thanks,
>Butch LaFonte 
><A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
>1</A> or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 21:54:01 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steel wire
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Hi Kyle,
At 08:41 PM 8/24/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>I am in need of thin gauge steel wire. It does not have to be insulated,
>but must be of 33 gauge or thinner. If anyone knows where I can get about
>1200 feet of this, and how much I can expect to pay, let me know.
>
Are you interested in the magnetic properties? What about the wire once
used in wire recorders? I don't know the typical gauge.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 21:54:03 1999
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:49:57
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
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Hi Fred and all,
At 01:17 PM 8/26/99 -0700, you wrote:

>Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
>this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
>evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
>Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at
>
>http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm

Do the metallic layers need to be electrically connected to each other
anywhere?
>From this page:
>Different ORACs were tried.
>
>1. A 2 layer wood/steel box ORAC, a 6 layer plastic/steel wool cylinder
ORAC, and a 10 layer
>aluminum/fibre sheet cylinder ORAC were used in lieu of the original box
ORAC. All gave similar
>results, though the aluminum/fibre sheet ORAC caused some erratic movement
of the GV needle.
>
>and a friend of mine's recent replication at:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html
>
Can you please ask your friend what 1 minute of arc means? I assume it is
something other than 1/60 of a degree, as it could be easily observed, as
well as fractions of it on a regular compass.

>These experiments show that oracs can affect meter readings.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 24 23:28:40 1999
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To: "Martin" <omikami@icon.co.za>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
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Hi Dave and all,
>
>>Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
>>this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
>>evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
>>Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at
>>
>>http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm
>
>Do the metallic layers need to be electrically connected to each other
>anywhere?

In general the layers of an orac are electrically isolated from each other.
And in Martin's case they were definitely not connected.
>>
>>and a friend of mine's recent replication at:
>>
>>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html
>>
>Can you please ask your friend what 1 minute of arc means? I assume it is
>something other than 1/60 of a degree, as it could be easily observed, as
>well as fractions of it on a regular compass.

Well, yes it is 1/60th of a degree. The compass had a magnifying glass and
he has sharp eyes.

The deflections were small but repeatable.

Fred



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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:52:33 -0700
From: "Vera M. Lind" <veralind@issc-taste.org>
Subject: Charles Tart's TASTE Project

August 24, 1999
Dear ,

I am a graduate student at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology,
assisting Professor Charles T. Tart on his new consciousness research
website project, The Archives of Scientists Transcendent Experiences
(TASTE).  TASTE is intended as a service for people in general, as well
as a research project to advance our knowledge.

Because you have had email correspondence with Professor Tart in the
past, I'm assuming it's likely that you will find the TASTE project of
personal interest, so I'm sending you this brief notice about it.

We are also running this project with very little financial resources,
and so can't afford to buy advertising; thus, we're asking a favor of
you.  Would you email this notice on to everyone you know who you think
might be interested, lay-people or scientists?

Thank you!

Vera M. Lind
Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
Palo Alto, California
veralind@issc-taste.org

  THE ARCHIVES OF SCIENTISTS' TRANSCENDENT EXPERIENCES
                         (TASTE)

       http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/tart/taste/

Over the years many scientists, once they've realized I'm a safe person to
talk to, have told me about unusual and transcendent experiences they've
had.  Too often I'm the first and only person they've ever spoken to about
their experiences, for fear of ridicule from their colleagues and adverse,
prejudicial effects on their career.  Such fears have, unfortunately, too
much of a basis in fact.  It's not that there are a lot of scientists with
nasty intentions deliberately trying to suppress their colleagues, it's
just the social conditioning of our times. I want to change that, and I
ask your help in doing so. 

Scientists today often occupy a social role like that of "high priests,"
telling laypeople and each other what is and isn't "real,"  and
consequently what is and isn't valuable and sane.  Unfortunately, the
dominant materialistic and reductionistic psychosocial climate of
contemporary science (what sociologists long ago named scientism, an
attitude different from the essential process of cience), rejects and
suppresses a priori both having and sharing transcendent, transpersonal
and altered states (or "spiritual" and "psychic," to use common words, in
spite of their too vague connotations) experiences. 

>From my perspective as a psychologist, though, this prejudicial
suppression and rejection psychologically harms and distorts both
scientists' and laypersons' transcendent (and other) potentials, and also
inhibits the development of a genuine scientific understanding of the full
spectrum of consciousness.  Denial of any aspects of our nature, whatever
their ultimate ontological status, is never psychologically or socially
healthy. 

The Archives of Scientists' Transcendent Experiences (TASTE), that I have
just opened, is intended to help change this restricted and pathological
climate through the operation of a World Wide Web site in a journal form
which will allow scientists from all fields - from anthropology through
botany through mathematics through physics through psychology through
zoology, to name just a few - to share their personal transcendent
experiences in a safe, anonymous, but quality controlled space that almost
all scientists and the general public have ready access to. 

Specifically TASTE will, to various degrees:

     - allow individual psychological growth in the contributing
scientists by providing a safe means of expression of vital experiences;

     - lead toward a more receptive climate to the full range of our
humanity in the scientific professions which, in turn, would benefit our
world culture at large;

     - provide research data on transcendent experiences in a highly
articulate and conscientious population, scientists;

     - facilitate the development of a full spectrum science of
consciousness by providing both data and support for the study of
transcendent experiences.

     - help bridge the unfortunate gaps between science and the rest of
culture by illustrating the humanity of scientists.

Please take a look at the TASTE site, whose URL is
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/tart/taste (if the Psychology server is off
line you can use www.issc-taste.org). If you find it valuable, please pass
this information on to friends and colleagues.  I have no budget for
advertising, so must depend on word of mouth to get this information
around. 

If you have a web site of your own that it would be suitable to link
from to TASTE, thank you!  Feel free to copy one of the TASTE
experiences as an example on your web site, if you like.

In terms of more conventional, slower publicity, if you can recommend
any journals I should send notices to, please let me know.  If you are
the editor of any publication, you have my permission (and thanks!) to
print this notice in your publication.

Thank you!

Charles T. Tart, Ph.D., Editor
Professor Emeritus, Psychology,
  University of California at Davis
Professor, Core Faculty, Institute of Transpersonal
  Psychology, Palo Alto, CA




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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Folks,

I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his =
electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For =
Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the =
IBM patent server. It includes test results.

This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and =
should be in the hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a =
limited time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those =
who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid =
duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but this =
format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it.=20

Fred

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Folks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was not aware until tonight that =
Erwin Saxl=20
had a patent on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, =
&quot;Device And=20
Method For Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces&quot;.&nbsp; It is =
not=20
available on the IBM patent server. It includes test =
results.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This has obvious relevance to =
electrogravity and=20
torsion research and should be in the hands of these researchers.&nbsp;=20
Accordingly, &quot;for a limited time only&quot; as the ads say :-) I =
will mail=20
the pdf file to those who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send =
the file=20
to avoid duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but =
this=20
format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Fred</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BEF01F.24A68DA0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 02:19:49 1999
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 03:14:59 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Erwin Saxl patent
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:09:30 -0700
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Hi Folks,
=20
I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his =
electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For =
Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the =
IBM patent server. It includes test results.
=20
This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and =
should be in the hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a =
limited time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those =
who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid =
duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but this =
format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it.=20
=20
Fred

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Folks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was not aware until tonight that =
Erwin Saxl=20
had a patent on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, =
&quot;Device And=20
Method For Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces&quot;.&nbsp; It is =
not=20
available on the IBM patent server. It includes test =
results.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This has obvious relevance to =
electrogravity and=20
torsion research and should be in the hands of these researchers.&nbsp;=20
Accordingly, &quot;for a limited time only&quot; as the ads say :-) I =
will mail=20
the pdf file to those who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send =
the file=20
to avoid duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but =
this=20
format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Fred</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01BEF028.D0C545A0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 03:25:11 1999
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Message-ID: <37C3AA2C.4C0043B3@telusplanet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:45 -0500
From: Don Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Robin - Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
References: <MAPI.Id.0016.006869746d616e203030303730303037@MAPI.to.RFC822> <37C2F771.688DC98@telusplanet.net> <37c53e5b.180745289@mail-hub>
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Hi Robin,


its a thin mattress full of high powered permanent magnets, made by Magenetico, very
expesnisve....
north polarity aimed at the body, therapeutic use, placed under mattress.  however its at
least 10
or more inches from contact with the OR blanket

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:50:10 -0500, Don Adams wrote:
> [snip]
> >On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under my mattress
> >is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to
>
> I'm not familiar with magnetic sleep pads. Is it just a permanent
> magnet, or does it run on AC from the grid?
>
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 03:26:56 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Saxl Patent
References: <005401bef05a$0086a6e0$374a66d1@Pfepps>
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Fred,

I'd love the PDF.... I'm trying to recall... can it be zipped well with
pkzip?

Fred Epps wrote:

>  Hi Folks, I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent
> on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For
> Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the
> IBM patent server. It includes test results. This has obvious
> relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should be in the
> hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a limited time only" as
> the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want it. I'll
> wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication of
> effort. It will probably be on a site later but this format is handy.
> Please contact me this week if you want it. Fred



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 03:37:28 1999
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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:33:47 +0200
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From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling)
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Dear Fred,

please include me in your mailer for the PDF file. 

Many Thanks  
__________________________________________
Jrgen Heinzerling * Author & Investigator
__________________________________________

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 04:53:22 1999
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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:52:14 +0800
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Steel wire
In-Reply-To: <199908250146.VAA22454@fh105.infi.net>
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Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
>I am in need of thin gauge steel wire. It does not have to be insulated,
>but must be of 33 gauge or thinner. If anyone knows where I can get about
>1200 feet of this, and how much I can expect to pay, let me know.

Try harpsicord wire
Thinnest available is 0.2mm (I don't know what size 33 gauge is)
Goes up in steps of 0.05mm - 0.2, 0.25, 0.3, 0.35, ...
Smaller sizes are ~$20 for a 250g roll.
Drops to $15 for thicker sizes.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 06:19:46 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Saxl Patent
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:25:47 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net
Message-ID: <LD+w3UQy8Q0T092yn@csonline.net>
References: <005401bef05a$0086a6e0$374a66d1@Pfepps>
 <37C3AAAF.9979D1C4@telusplanet.net>
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>I'd love the PDF.... I'm trying to recall... can it be zipped well with
>pkzip?

In general .PDF's already contain compression and pkzip does
not help a lot, and may at times make the file larger
because of the .zip header over head.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 06:52:00 1999
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Message-ID: <007201beeeff$e32de6e0$2001a8c0@corpsys.com>
From: "Dennis Kerrisk" <dak@corpsys.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
References: <00ac01bef063$7e59de80$374a66d1@Pfepps>
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:44:00 -0700
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Please Include me in your list for the patent info

                                                                         =
                  Dennis

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Fred Epps=20
  To: Free Energy=20
  Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 1:09 AM
  Subject: Erwin Saxl patent


  Hi Folks,
  =20
  I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his =
electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For =
Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the =
IBM patent server. It includes test results.
  =20
  This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and =
should be in the hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a =
limited time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those =
who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid =
duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but this =
format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it.=20
  =20
  Fred

------=_NextPart_000_006F_01BEEEC5.36A42E50
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please Include me in your list for the =
patent=20
info</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Dennis</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:fepps@fidalgo.net" title=3Dfepps@fidalgo.net>Fred =
Epps</A>=20
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com"=20
  title=3Dfreenrg-l@eskimo.com>Free Energy</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 27, 1999 =
1:09=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Erwin Saxl =
patent</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Folks,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was not aware until tonight that =
Erwin Saxl=20
  had a patent on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device =
And=20
  Method For Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".&nbsp; It is not=20
  available on the IBM patent server. It includes test =
results.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This has obvious relevance to =
electrogravity=20
  and torsion research and should be in the hands of these =
researchers.&nbsp;=20
  Accordingly, "for a limited time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail =
the pdf=20
  file to those who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the =
file to=20
  avoid duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but =
this=20
  format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it. =
</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>Fred</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_006F_01BEEEC5.36A42E50--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 10:38:32 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <4163bc33.24f583d2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:37:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Fred,
I would like a copy if it's not to much trouble.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 10:56:55 1999
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From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey)
Subject: 1999 INE Conference Schedule for Aug. 27-28 in SLC, UT
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The latest conference schedule for the 1999 INE Conference

including speaker's names, paper titles, and paper times,

has just been uploaded and placed on:

http://www.padrak.com/ine/INECONF99.html

PB.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 11:20:45 1999
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From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 <MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov>
Subject: RE: Erwin Saxl patent
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Fred,

For some reason I am receiving mail from you today Aug 25, but it is marked 
as received Aug 27 ???

How are you doing this?   Have you been working on time travel?

Or is your PC's clock set ahead for some reason.

Maybe you could send me tonights lotto numbers ;^)

See below...

Bill
webriggs@concentric.net
briggs@XLNsystems.com




                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                Date:     27-Aug-1999 04:09am EDT 
                                From:     Fred Epps
                                          fepps@fidalgo.net@INTERNET@GOSIP
                                Dept:
                                Tel No:    

TO:  Free Energy                ( freenrg-l@eskimo.com@INTERNET@GOSIP )

Subject: Erwin Saxl patent

Hi Folks,
 
I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl (blah blah blah).

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 11:59:32 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:54:05 -0700
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Hi Bill,

Whoops, Thanks Bill, I got a new machine recently and it LOOKED like the
clock was set right so I never checked.
>
>For some reason I am receiving mail from you today Aug 25, but it is marked
>as received Aug 27 ???
>
>How are you doing this?   Have you been working on time travel?

Well yes, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.. I can only get a few
hours anyway :-)
>
>Or is your PC's clock set ahead for some reason.
>
>Maybe you could send me tonights lotto numbers ;^)

They don't have lotto in the future.  But hang on to all your used aluminum
foil :-)

Fred
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 12:22:22 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
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At 09:54 AM 08/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>Have you been working on time travel?
>
>Well yes, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.. I can only get a few
>hours anyway :-)

Hi Fred.  If it's no trouble can you beam the Saxl patent here too?

Btw, if you are using the Tardis-- and you send it right now, it won't
arrive for at least two days.
So wait until Saturday to send it-- Ok?  I then should recieve it a few
minutes from now ;-)

Thanks
Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 12:38:11 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:32:41 -0700
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Hi Colin,


>At 09:54 AM 08/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>>Have you been working on time travel?
>>
>>Well yes, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.. I can only get a few
>>hours anyway :-)
>
>Hi Fred.  If it's no trouble can you beam the Saxl patent here too?

Sure.
>
>Btw, if you are using the Tardis-- and you send it right now, it won't
>arrive for at least two days.
>So wait until Saturday to send it-- Ok?  I then should recieve it a few
>minutes from now ;-)

I already sent the patent to you before I found it.  It got there tomorrow
:-)

Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 12:58:30 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <bee7fcc1.24f5a482@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:56:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Steel wire
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 8/24/99 6:49:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
stk@sunherald.infi.net writes:

> 
>  I am in need of thin gauge steel wire. It does not have to be insulated,
>  but must be of 33 gauge or thinner. If anyone knows where I can get about
>  1200 feet of this, and how much I can expect to pay, let me know.
>  
>  Kyle R. Mcallister

Kyle, 
  If you locate a good source would you let me know.   I have been looking 
for magnetic wire, including larger guages, for several years  -- with very 
limited success.                                    Thanks,
                                                                            
Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 13:01:51 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <baa32922.24f5a565@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:00:37 EDT
Subject: Using reluctance to work for you!
To: energy21@listbot.com
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Please look at my web page at the last drawing. It shows a magnet in the 
center of the rotor. This magnet will send more of it's flux to the spoke 
that has the lower reluctance! The top spoke is it in this case because the 
spoke on the left is moving next to the arrow or taper shape I have described 
and has higher reluctance. The other two spokes will not get as much because 
of their larger air gap. The tapered area has lower attraction force and less 
flux, tests will tell if this will be overunity or not. I will let you know 
the results.
Thanks,
Butch
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A>   or   http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 14:52:19 1999
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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 <MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov>
Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
In-reply-to: <031701beef1a$722702e0$454a66d1@Pfepps>
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Fred,

Hey if you can get a couple of hours I can turn 5K into a couple of million in 
the markets in a couple of weeks, how does unlimited independent funding sound? 
$;^)

Bill
webriggs@concentric.net
briggs@XLNsystems.com

>>How are you doing this?   Have you been working on time travel?

>Well yes, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.. I can only get a few
>hours anyway :-)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 15:55:52 1999
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Subject: Re: Erwin Saxl patent
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--=====================_154346080==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

i'd like this sent to me too, if you can. thanks

At 06:44 AM 8/25/99 -0700, you wrote: 
>
> Please Include me in your list for the patent info
>  
>                                                                          
>              Dennis
>  
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <mailto:fepps@fidalgo.net>Fred Epps 
>> To: <mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com>Free Energy 
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 1:09 AM
>> Subject: Erwin Saxl patent
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>  
>> I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his
>> electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For Measuring
>> Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the IBM patent
>> server. It includes test results.
>>  
>> This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should
>> be in the hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a limited time
>> only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want it. I'll
>> wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication of effort. It
>> will probably be on a site later but this format is handy. Please contact me
>> this week if you want it. 
>>  
>> Fred
>




--=====================_154346080==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
i'd like this sent to me too, if you can. thanks<br>
<br>
At 06:44 AM 8/25/99 -0700, you wrote: <br>
<font face="arial" size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>Please Include me in
your list for the patent info</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&







nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs







p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Dennis</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:fepps@fidalgo.net">Fred Epps</a> <br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">Free Energy</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 27, 1999 1:09 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Erwin Saxl patent<br>
<br>
<font size=2>Hi Folks,</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent
on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, &quot;Device And Method
For Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces&quot;.&nbsp; It is not
available on the IBM patent server. It includes test 
results.</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion
research and should be in the hands of these researchers.&nbsp;
Accordingly, &quot;for a limited time only&quot; as the ads say :-) I
will mail the pdf file to those who want it. I'll wait until next weekend
to send the file to avoid duplication of effort. It will probably be on a
site later but this format is handy. Please contact me this week if you
want it. </font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2>Fred</font></blockquote></blockquote><br>
<br>
</html>

--=====================_154346080==_.ALT--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 21:00:49 1999
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:46:34 +1200
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> >Any comments on the below?
> >
> >http://www.enterprisemission.com/
> >
> >          8/19/99 -   "Inside Source" provides Details of "Impact Events"
> >          8/19/99 -   Did Hoagland/Bell August 18th Comet Discussion
> Trigger
> >Another National Story ..?
> >          8/18/99 -   Something Wicked This Way Comes ...
> >          8/18/99 -   CNN: Millions watch century's last eclipse (
> 
> Yes, these people need to get a life :-)
> 
> More seriously, at least once a month somebody now is predicting the end of
> the world.  Remember Shoemaker-Levy? There were a lot of people who said
> that was the end.  Then there is the Cassini flyby and on and on.  I used to
> run a new age bookstore and a more fearful, doom-ridden group of people I've
> never  seen.  When one calamity didn't happen they would be in my store next
> week with another one, week after week, year after year. After a while I got
> the picture. Sorry Charlie, it ain't gonna happen. All these prophets,
> Nostradamus, Cayce, Scallion, have all been wrong, wrong, wrong, over and
> over again.
> 
> There is a deep psychological need on the part of some people to expect an
> apocalypse. One reason for this is that it is an "easy way out" from their
> own problems and the real global problems we all face. It is a lot easier to
> panic about a comet and then be relieved when it doesn't hit, than it is to
> deal with the issues that are on your plate-- in other words, to get a life
> :-)
> 
> Wake up and look around, doomers, we are here for the long term.  No
> apocalypse and no "ascension". Are we going to make it nice or make it
> miserable?
> 
> Fred
 
 Well if these's report's have even the smallest bit of truth in them
it's very 
disturbing and any act of suppression even more so .
if these materializations of mater are real then so to is the concept of
god
as this is proof that his tool's of creation are real " god said let
there be light
and there was light "(a ring of light) this called zero, and with the
light he created the one from the centre of his being to the edge of the
darkness 1  then 2 then 3 connecting them end to end creating a right
angle triangle and the 3 dimensions and the 12 division's that create
our reality ,
each one having different property's and power but all constructed from
3 making 9 basic numbers .
 The 4th dimension of time is 4 and was constructed at right angle's to
the 3 
dimensions using pi the length of the circumference and the 12
division's   God is the 5 dimension the torsion fields the force of life
from which all is made .god is LIFE
god is " KNOWLEDGE " I LOVE KNOWLEDGE  KNOWLEDGE OF LIFE is good
have you ever seen the sunrise in the morning and seen the plants come
to life to the torsion generated by the arc of light just pre dawn the
shape's of flower's also generate a torsion field this is quite weak but
one flower is stimulated by another and so on.
 If you take a piece of wire multiple Diameter by pi x 8/12 or 8 or 80
or 800 the 0's just change power not the property , cut to length and
form into a circle orientate it at
right angle's to any magnet pole you will smell hydrogen the first
element 
you can feel the force lens ed to a point on both side's an at right
angle's to the 
the circle , you may also hear a whirl or whisper sound ,the colour and
type of wire seem
to also play a roll I've used an insulated copper wire the red colour
mean's go actuate
permanent fast , I think you will see the significance and meaning of
the 5 ring's
of Olympus  and then realize the Greek legend's are in fact a true
record of the past.
 The facts remain these time's have been predicted by many Civilizations
in the past
and let's face it we have changed the atmosphere never before in history
has it been as it is now ,the politician's work for them selves they
work to there own agenda that of
control and power not to the will of truth and justice .
 Your right Fred there is no need to panic if this is true there are
three option's
as all way's.x  
-- 
           	        **RRAMM**
      Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research     
 Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electric Gen*Anti gravity drive
	            mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 22:45:29 1999
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From: RBCorn2@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 01:44:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Saxl Patent
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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I am intersted, thank you!

Rob

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Aug 25 23:08:00 1999
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From: rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Robin - Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:07:15 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:45 -0500, Don Adams wrote:

>Hi Robin,
>
>
>its a thin mattress full of high powered permanent magnets, made by Magenetico, very
>expesnisve....
>north polarity aimed at the body, therapeutic use, placed under mattress.  however its at
>least 10
>or more inches from contact with the OR blanket
Nevertheless, you might check to see whether the effect goes away when
you remove the OR blanket, but keep the magnetic sleep pad.
Or alternatively when you keep the OR blanket , but remove the sleep
pad.
As I understand it, you have only tested with both or neither so far.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 00:54:49 1999
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Subject: Re: Robin - Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure?
References: <MAPI.Id.0016.006869746d616e203030303730303037@MAPI.to.RFC822> <37C2F771.688DC98@telusplanet.net> <37c53e5b.180745289@mail-hub> <37C3AA2C.4C0043B3@telusplanet.net> <37c6d8d8.13802236@mail-hub>
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Robin,

heck of a good point!  Doh!  I should have done that... will try opnce I have time to tinker
again....

cheers!

:)

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:45 -0500, Don Adams wrote:
>
> >Hi Robin,
> >
> >
> >its a thin mattress full of high powered permanent magnets, made by Magenetico, very
> >expesnisve....
> >north polarity aimed at the body, therapeutic use, placed under mattress.  however its at
> >least 10
> >or more inches from contact with the OR blanket
> Nevertheless, you might check to see whether the effect goes away when
> you remove the OR blanket, but keep the magnetic sleep pad.
> Or alternatively when you keep the OR blanket , but remove the sleep
> pad.
> As I understand it, you have only tested with both or neither so far.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 04:01:00 1999
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:58:31 +0100
From: Dieter Bauer <WDBAUER@vossnet.de>
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Subject: Poynting thruster
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------E254DE22618F20C425CEC35D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all !

Here some ideas how to improve the Poynting thruster of J.L. Naudin
presented at
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft02.htm .
Acc. to Jean Louis the Poynting thrust E x H is responsible for the
moment. This is not totally correct. It is the momentum of the field D x
B which is parallel and makes the thrust if you are using simple linear
materials coupling to the field. Therefore the thrust can be enhanced if
a highly dielectric ceramic is used filling the airgap of the  Leyden
jar tube capacitance.
Acc. to conventional theory (and if no rest currents pass the
dielectrics) a force can arise only if a current flows into the
capacitance because then a H - field can be generated.  Therefore -in
order to get a continous force by continously given force pulses  -the
current should flow more steady through the capacitance. This can be
done by take television deflection electronics. In order to make sure
that the direction of the thrust (an the B-field) remains constant the
charge current has to flow from one side of the tube in and from the
other out.
This can be made sure by switches of better by high voltage diodes !

Sincerely

Dieter Bauer
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 04:38:28 1999
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include me also for the saxl patent pdf

thanks

Mike Connolly    Hopper Tank Technical Sales Manager  GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC.

P.O. BOX 20     1004 East Illinois Street      Assumption, IL   62510-0020 
   

PH: 217.226.4421      FAX: 217.226.4420            U.S. FAX:  800.800.5329

E-MAIL:    mconnolly@grainsystems.com




----------
> Please Include me in your list for the patent info
> 
>                                                                          
    
>             Dennis
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Fred Epps 
>   To: Free Energy 
>   Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 1:09 AM
>   Subject: Erwin Saxl patent

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 08:45:29 1999
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On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, John Berry wrote:

> Forgot to mention, I find your atom absorption theory hard to swallow,
> it could be right but...

The good thing about this is that it's not my theory.  It's from
Bohren, Sutton/Spaniol, and Paul/Fischer (actual genuine scientists all.)


>  The main thing is you could make matter
> transparent by relatively simple means of applying high frequency so
> that it was all phase locked meaning that only "lucky"  radiation would
> have the right phase. 

This is well known: its how population inversion works in lasers.  In
theory, if you take a bright red ruby crystal and invert the population,
the red color vanishes.  It occurs so quickly that human's wouldn't notice
it (their eyes are smarting from looking at the flashtube discharge.)

I don't know if "energy sucking antennas" applies to the opacity of
everyday objects though, since in that case the resonances are broad, and
not extremely narrow like in lasers, sodium gas, etc. 

But now that you've mentioned it...  this sounds vaguely plausible.  If we
could rely upon some sort of unsuspected nonlinear EM effect in the atoms,
then perhaps if we could crank up the vibrating fields to a high enough
degree, and it would alter the index of refraction.  After all, the
refractive index of transparent substances is really about virtual
photons, and not about actual pumping of the electron shells of the atoms. 

Wait a minute.  We could try a test.  Maybe if we wind a coil around a
prism and give it some sort of enormous (rotating?)  EM field, the
refractive power of the prism will change.  Use a laser beam with a long
"throw", shine it through your prism, and look for deflections of the dot. 
Try all sorts of different frequencies and intensities until you hit the
sweet spot (if one exists, I mean.)

Now instead of slightly altering its refractive index, if instead the
prism seems to "go away,"  then I suggest you perform the next experiment
on...  what...  maybe... could be... 

A BATTLESHIP?  :)

Or at least use a piece of metal like with Hutchison's experiments and see
if THAT becomes transparent or goes away.  I hadn't considered that. 
Tesla? Resonance? Holes in physics which for some reason the rest of
science has never cared about? 

Well. The other shoe drops, and its not MY foot that's in it.

If EM fields or vibrating vector-potential can interfere with the
refractive index of matter, then it would be an easy experiment to attempt
to make a huge structure "go away" as part of a camoflage attempt.  You'd
need a really big coil and a large number of high-power switching devices
wired in parallel (banks and banks of vacuum tubes.)  If other phenomena
were also observed, then you'd have grounds for further research.  :) 

That hole in physics?  Maybe its not a hole.  Maybe it's a bag.  A bag
with a whole hell of a lot of cats peering over its edge.

Um.  If my whole family suddenly disappears while we're on vacation,
I guess you'll know where to find us.  But then, ever it was thus.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 09:22:10 1999
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Hi Jean Louis and all !

You wrote:
>
>This is not a simple opened tube, but a cylindrical capacitor which one side 
>closed like a Leyden bottle, the positive pole is connected on the outer 
>armature in the main axis and the 0V is connected on the inner the armature 
>also in the main axis so as each electrode are placed face to face in the 
>middle. For instance if this two wires are placed on the right side of this 
>asymmetrical capacitor, during the transient phase the S-Flow follows the 
>dielectric from the left (the edge of the cap) to the right. So, there is an 
>asymmetrical S-Flow like the basic experiment with an asymmetrical flat 
>capacitor.
>

It is correct what you write !

Nevermind, the new proposed tube setup should work as well acc. to
conventional standard electrodynamics !
If a current flows into the (coax-cable like)-tube capacitance, the magnetic
field lines build up in concentic rings around the inner electrode along the
axis. The developing electric field points radially from the electrode in
the axis, and the "Poynting" vector or better the electromagnetic momentum p
is perpendicular to both acc. to the formula p ~ D x B which is coupling to
the dielectric material ! (in your case glass !)
Using the diodes in the setup - the current (and therefore the B-field
lines) and the E-field point always in the same direction and the force
generated is pointing continously in one direction as well.
In order to have a strong B- field the tube diameter should be as narrow as
possible.
As voltage source you can use a (DC-offsetted)- HV - sawtooth generator or
even an high voltage AC-generator if this is followed by a HV-rectifier. 

Further possibility of amplification exists if you build up arrays. This
seems to be a trivial idea but making an array of such Poynting coax tubes
by chip miniaturisation is not a too bad idea, because then you do not need
high voltages to get the high fields in the chip in order to produce the
effect effectively. The capacitive energy can be regained partially in an
oscillating circuit which uses the unit as capacitance. In this way an
better efficiency from electric to mechanical energy is possible.

Best regards

Dieter

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 09:49:23 1999
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:43:45 EDT
Subject: Re: Vortex Water Separator
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Hi, Bruce--

Nice to hear from you.  Please apprise me on the latest developments in your 
excellent, Clearbroook water filters.  Thanks.

>Russ,
>Where is a copy of a bona fide test? 

Believe me, I've tried to find out.  I'm hoping someone else might have 
better luck than me in dislodging such documentation which the inventor, Pat 
Baker, says exists.  

I'm basically trying to follow up on sketchy but enticing info from a booth 
at a Y2K expo.  On display was a $1200 'whole-house' water unit comprising 8 
interconnected vortex tubes; ostensible water cleansing & energization 
without filters, ion exchange media, or any technological paraphernalia!  The 
salient claims, enumerated in a tri-fold brochure, were (quoting):

* Removes parasites [...types & percentages not specified]
* Helps to hydrate cells
* Removes unwanted minerals and deposits such as chlorine & most fluoride
* Antioxidant
* Less soap is needed for cleaning
* Ionizes - adds negative ions good for our health
* Filters - removes large particulates
* ...adds energy and makes minerals colloidal

...and, quoting from single page flier:

Each stage [tube] will remove up to 95% of the suspended material in the 
water that is passed through it.  Each stage progressively separates material 
from the water until a desired purity is achieved.

The surface tension of the water can be reduced to below 20 dynes in the 
outlet water.

Most [ ?? ] bacteria and water borne parasites are eliminated through 
separation, building of negative ion charge in the water, release of free 
oxygen ions in the water, raising of pH and rH factors of the water, and the 
release of colloidal silver in the water.
   
The rep, Mr. Garrett Jenson (bluestarenv@unidial.com  --  877-617-3726, 
972-918-9094, fax -9694) showed me a page of test results that ranged from 
inconclusive to contradictory.  Subsequently, he explained that the lab they 
had engaged was unable to perform certain tests properly, and that they were 
moving the experiments to a better lab in Dallas.  Since then, Ive heard 
nothing in the way of verification.  Mr. Jenson NEVER answers his phone, and 
it takes him weeks to return phone messages, if ever.  (The last time I spoke 
to him, he returned my call only because of a ruse I had concocted--in 
desperation, I had left a voice mail from "Ed McMahans executive secretary 
informing him that he was a $50K prize winner..and he evidently believed it.) 

Versions or the Vortex are said to include a transparent, 40-stage, counter 
top unit, and an 80 stage desalination unit.  

>What about molecular bonding?  Sodium
>Chloride is not a free form particulate in sea water. The molecule is bound
>to the H2O. 

...Hmmm...what percentage of the sodium chloride, and depending on what water 
conditions?  Trace Minerals Research removes 99.5% of the sodium chloride 
from re-constituted Great Salt Lake water by *settling* it out.  I'd think 
that the "bond" you mention must be weaker that gravity.

>You will have to prove the desal comment to me, otherwise I'll
>take the comment as unreliable information. 

Me, too, but I'm holding out hope that the claims are true.  The implications 
of this design concept are just too good to dismiss.  

>By the way, most people can't
>afford this simple technology as you put it; at well over $1000.00. The
>technologies you describe here are far less in price and are proven in
>application of industrial waste, not to mention the effectiveness of their
>use in much cleaner open water sources. Lets not get too presumptuous in our
>effort to prepare people in the proper manner, and lets not forget about
>those with a need for less expensive preparation methods and equipment.

We think alike; this is precisely the point I was approaching in my email to 
the inventor, Pat Baker (baker@satx.net).  I was wondering about a *batch* 
unit that runs water repeatedly through a SINGLE tube, or possibly enhancing 
the units efficiency by incorporating other methodologies (magnets, 
transformers, etc.) if necessary, available, or desirable.

>The word purifier includes the resolute kill of 6 log or greater in
>microorganisms using e-coli as a surrogate. 

I used the word purify loosely; neither Mr. Baker nor any LBA literature 
make that verbatim claim.

>How is water regulated or pumped into a piece of equipment like this?  It
>will over flow if the volume is greater than the flow rate. Can it be used
>continuously or is it a pour through devise.

Good question, touching on an interesting feature.  As I understand it (and 
this is what I SURMISE, amid this dearth communication), the PVC pipes are 
capped at both ends.  The water is *forced* into the top using municipal 
water pressure or a minimum 10 of gravity feed.  Introducing the water 
eccentrically and at a minimum velocity causes a cone-shaped vacuum at the 
vortex' axis, despite the tendency of the pressure to fill the tube.  
Therefore, this is a 'continuous' AND 'pour-through' device.  

>You were going to give me a web site or number to source stabilized oxygen.
>Did you have any success finding this yet?

Ill run across it again when I go through my catalogs; meantime, ask 
Sportsmens Guide--800-888-3006.  The very best price I've seen is $8 for a 
1.5 oz. bottle.

>Thanks & Best Regards
>Bruce

Likewise, Russ

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 13:04:03 1999
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Hi Fred,

please include me also into the list for the saxl patent pdf

thanks

Tameer

Fred Epps schrieb:

>  Hi Folks, I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent
> on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For
> Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the
> IBM patent server. It includes test results. This has obvious
> relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should be in the
> hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a limited time only" as
> the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want it. I'll
> wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication of
> effort. It will probably be on a site later but this format is handy.
> Please contact me this week if you want it. Fred

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Fred,
<p>please include me also into the list for the saxl patent pdf
<p>thanks
<p>Tameer
<p>Fred Epps schrieb:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Hi Folks,</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I
was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his electrified
pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For Measuring Gravitational
And Other Forces".&nbsp; It is not available on the IBM patent server.
It includes test results.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>This
has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should
be in the hands of these researchers.&nbsp; Accordingly, "for a limited
time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want
it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication
of effort. It will probably be on a site later but this format is handy.
Please contact me this week if you want it.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Fred</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

--------------CB3255D6FE9ACA826E15B7BD--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 13:04:17 1999
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Hi Fred, Hi Don
Have you noticed the design of the TMB from atglab lately (thread: sustained TMB
current) ?
I think the weird meter readings do relate to their experiments.
I wrote to Rex from atglab that I see a connection between their design of the
plates and an orac, but he told me that they haven't thought about orgon so far.

The point seems to be: build a sandwich out of two plates of different metal and
some organic sheet and do isolate them electrically so you are sure you dont't
have
any galvanic effects. Reminds me of an orac.
Expose this sandwich to a magnetic field the right way and you get some energy
free.

I have done some small experiments with this but my meter readings are too
small to distinguish between real effects and radio erivan so far.

The heavy duty orgon blanket on top of the strong magnets might be the enlarged
version of the TMB.

Has anyone else done some experiments with this ?
What kind of materials will be best ?


Fred Epps schrieb:

>
> Hi Don,
>
> Thanks for the interesting report!
>
> Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
> this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
> evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
> Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at
>
> http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm
>
> and a friend of mine's recent replication at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html
>
> These experiments show that oracs can affect meter readings. Whether this
> force is indeed electric current in the wires is still up for debate. I
> recommend that experimenters try to replicate these tests to add to the body
> of knowledge of em/orgone interactions. This may lead to a usable energy
> source.
>
> Also take a look at:
>
> http://orgone.org/articles/ax8ernst-mag1.htm
>
> and
>
> http://www.orgone.org/unvsci/zzmag-orac1.htm
>
> for compass measurements of the "magnetic field" of an orac.
>
> It might also be said that a magnetic has an "orgone field" since Hans
> Reichenbach's sensitives saw energy flows from the ends of a magnet, and
> several researchers,  Roy Eugene Davis and Oliver Crane being two random
> examples, have described cw (S) and ccw (N) energy vortices coming from the
> two ends of a magnet.
> The differing healing effects from the two ends of a magnet cannot be
> accounted for by the normal flux orientations of a magnet, though they are
> easily explainable in terms of vortical forces.
>
> It has been my view for a while now that all phenomena of orgone, chi,
> prana, etc. can be explained in terms of vortical electromagnetic fields,
> where the E and B vectors are parallel.  These configurations are more
> stable than standard fields, and can also explain ball lightning, charge
> clusters, plasma phenomena, etc.
> This also relates to the faster than light "torsion field" area.
>
> If such a field emanates from an orgone "accumulator" (and I do not think it
> accumulates anything but acts as a waveguide) then the presence of a magnet
> might "untwist" some of this trapped em energy and make it detectible by a
> meter, and available for use.
>
> Fred
>
> >On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under
> my mattress
> >is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to
> the 200mV
> >setting and it started fluctuating wildly... going as high as 41.70, but
> averaging
> >always between
> >22 to 28.00 approx <snip> Is it just some sort of anomalous flaw in the
> meter?  Can
> >anyone provide insight into this?
> >

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Subject: RE: Energy-sucking antennas 
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On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Scudder, Henry J wrote:

> Bill
> 	If you take a wire 10 feet or so in length, and stick it up a few
> feet above a ground plane, in any urban environment you can get a voltage
> between the base of the antenna and ground on the order of a volt or two.

Yep!  I have to deal with this all of the time in electronics design (how
to shield against it of course, not how to detect it.)

> Try it, with an oscilloscope to look at amplitudes and waveforms. All the
> radio and TV stations, as well as powerline EMF's will appear. You can stick
> a diode there, and filter it with a capacitor, and get free dc power.


Certainly.  That is the basic story depicted by fig. 1 in the "Energy
Sucking" paper.   http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html


> You
> could use a dc-dc converter here and get a free dc power supply. On my boat,
> I have a LORAN antenna which is similar to what I just described. The
> antenna has a built in preamp, which is powered from the RF, and amplifies
> the 100 KHz pulses that constitute the LORAN system. With a large enough
> antenna farm, such as RCA has on Long Island, you might even get enough
> power to charge an electric car, but I doubt it.

Ah, that means that I was unclear.  At resonance, the large AC signal on
the antenna can, in theory, reach out to fill the entire nearfield region
surrounding the antenna.  This phenomenon causes the "effective area" of
the antenna to increase.  This increase is limited by the Q of the
resonator.  Spatially, physics also limits this increase to the diameter
of the nearfield region.  Thought experiment: with infinite Q, and at low
frequencies, the effective area of a resonator/antenna combination can
become totally humongous, like hundreds of KM across, yet the physical
antenna would be tiny.  What does this mean for real-world systems? I
don't know.  We'd have to experiment (or write some Excel simulations.) 

> The big problem is the
> effective area of the antenna, and the inverse power law of distance from a
> source of power.

Yep.  The effect can only work for electrically small antennas.  It
essentially converts an electrically small antenna into a large one, but
it obviously cannot do any better than increasing the size of this
"invisible antenna" region and forcing it to resemble a half-wave dipole
(or probably lots less than that, maybe like 1/6 wavelength at the most,
maybe much less.)  But think about what this means at low frequencies.  It
means that an active "desktop antenna" can be forced to swell in
"electrical size"  until it's hundreds of feet across! 

> Your antenna only intercepts a small portion of the sphere
> around the local TV station's antenna.  

That's the key point.  The "cancelling wave" is much larger than the
antenna, and so a little bitty antenna (like a little bitty atom) can
create an enlarged "effective area" and intercept huge amounts of energy.
Does this sound insane?  Definitely!  It is the weirdest damned thing I've
ever heard of, and I thought I totally understood how radios work.  I'm
supposedly an electronics expert (never been a Ham, though.)


> 	When I was in the boy scouts 50 years ago, I wanted to listen to a
> football game when I was on a hike. The hike was on a mountain which had a
> broadcast antenna which was broadcasting the game. I hooked up a wire, a
> diode, and a pair of earphones from a Ham rig, and was able to just barely
> listen to the game. Free power is available, but not much.

Cool!

As a kid, we lived about a mile from the WENY tower in Elmira, New York.
In that situation, crystal radios would still work even with no coil or
capacitor.  Just a diode, about a 5ft antenna wire, ground, and a
hi-impedance headphone.

Aha, I just saw another aspect.  The coil/capacitor in a crystal radio,
since it connects directly to the antenna without any active amplifiers to
get in the way...  behaves as an "energy sucker."  Without that
coil/capacitor, the headphones won't produce sound.  Ah, so THAT'S why
crystal radios do that.  I've always wondered why the headphones in those
radios don't create a jabber from *all* radio stations when you yank the
coil-capacitor off of the crystal radio.  It's because the resonator is
NOT A FILTER.  Instead it is an active antenna.  It's because the
resonator accumulates energy from the crystal radio's antenna, stimulates
the antenna and forces it to produce some field-cancellation, behaves as
an oscillator that's powered by the fields in the environment, produces
the "enhanced effective area" phenomena, and "sucks energy" out of a
region of space surrounding the antenna of the crystal radio.  The longer
the device is in tune, the bigger the energy-sucking effect grows, until
it is limited by the Q-factor losses in the coil. 

I am stunned.  I thought that at least I understood how simple crystal
radios worked!



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 13:35:55 1999
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Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas 
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Bill -

Maybe oscillating magnetic fields under layers of organic/metal laminates
would create an orgone sucking antenna (he said while contemplating the very
fringe, then ...stepping over the edge...).

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 14:57:30 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Vortex Water Separator
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:03:43 -0400
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Ahoy!

If you'll look at:

http://www.aa.net/~knuke/vlink.htm

you'll see that some tests have been done by various researchers.  If I
recall correctly, however, the vortex tube type water separators/purifiers
are "pretty good" at removing a lot of impurities, but that supplemental
filtering or other forms of treatment were recommended before calling the
end product drinkable.  In other words, it be a good way to reduce the
amount of energy needed to purify water, but not eliminate the need for at
least some energy expenditure or additional filtration.  I have seen
anything on this guy's device that you are talking about, however.

I like the idea of designing a vertical tube that is in the proper shape for
magnetizing water using the Fibonnacci (sp) curve math.  It would be nice to
calc the correct height, width, and curve for a gravity fed rainwater
purifier/magnetizer.  If it was made out of quartz, and had a coil wrapped
around the outside of it, you might be able to generate electricity.

I also wonder if the magic part of Brown's Gas isn't this kind of magnetic
steam.  Todd Knudson told me that the Brown's Gas held itself in some kind
of matrix.  Wiseman, et. al. have recently identified a certain portion of
the gas that is formed in the water -between- the electrode plates as
opposed to right on the plates themselves, like normal H2 and O2 evolution.
Wiseman thinks that this interplate gas might be steam, but if the steam
were caused by the right kind of vortex, it might be magnetized as well,
which could give the right conditions for an H2 + O2 + Magnetic H2O Matrix,
which may be the essence of Brown's Gas.

Lotsa maybes, mights and I wonders, :)

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 15:55:55 1999
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>Maybe oscillating magnetic fields under layers of organic/metal laminates
>would create an orgone sucking antenna (he said while contemplating the
very
>fringe, then ...stepping over the edge...).
>
>Rick Monteverde
>

That's how the Weltz (sp?) chi/orgone generators supposedly work. Rick
Andersen has a
review of these products on his site.

Peter Nielsen



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 19:23:40 1999
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On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Bill -
> 
> Maybe oscillating magnetic fields under layers of organic/metal laminates
> would create an orgone sucking antenna (he said while contemplating the very
> fringe, then ...stepping over the edge...).

I like the message from John Berry about invisibility.  I still am aware
of the vanishing metal reported in the Farnsworth Fusor experiments,
reported as part of the effect when "white gold" is heated, and reported
as part of the infamous "Hutchison Effect."

If atoms resonate with the Vector Potential produced by shielded coils,
perhaps we can resonate all the atoms in an object and make its matter
behave oddly.  Maybe I'll stumble across the REAL version of the forumula
for Transparent Aluminum, as opposed to Mr. Scott's version in the 2nd
Star Trek movie (the one with the whales.)   If I do, I'll put it on my
website so all the kids can use it in their science fair projects and
REALLY disturb their teachers.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 19:41:31 1999
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Subject: TMB Re: Something Weird - Orgone Pressure? or TMB cell ?
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fascinating Tameer.... worth looking into!

Tameer Hohnsbein wrote:

> Hi Fred, Hi Don
> Have you noticed the design of the TMB from atglab lately (thread: sustained TMB
> current) ?
> I think the weird meter readings do relate to their experiments.
> I wrote to Rex from atglab that I see a connection between their design of the
> plates and an orac, but he told me that they haven't thought about orgon so far.
>
> The point seems to be: build a sandwich out of two plates of different metal and
> some organic sheet and do isolate them electrically so you are sure you dont't
> have
> any galvanic effects. Reminds me of an orac.
> Expose this sandwich to a magnetic field the right way and you get some energy
> free.
>
> I have done some small experiments with this but my meter readings are too
> small to distinguish between real effects and radio erivan so far.
>
> The heavy duty orgon blanket on top of the strong magnets might be the enlarged
> version of the TMB.
>
> Has anyone else done some experiments with this ?
> What kind of materials will be best ?
>
> Fred Epps schrieb:
>
> >
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting report!
> >
> > Of course it is possible that there is some conventional explanation for
> > this but it seems unlikely in the context of the considerable body of
> > evidence that orgone and EM do interact.  For instance take a look at the
> > Coil/Orac tests, both the original ones at
> >
> > http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/orac.htm
> >
> > and a friend of mine's recent replication at:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/coilorac.html
> >
> > These experiments show that oracs can affect meter readings. Whether this
> > force is indeed electric current in the wires is still up for debate. I
> > recommend that experimenters try to replicate these tests to add to the body
> > of knowledge of em/orgone interactions. This may lead to a usable energy
> > source.
> >
> > Also take a look at:
> >
> > http://orgone.org/articles/ax8ernst-mag1.htm
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.orgone.org/unvsci/zzmag-orac1.htm
> >
> > for compass measurements of the "magnetic field" of an orac.
> >
> > It might also be said that a magnetic has an "orgone field" since Hans
> > Reichenbach's sensitives saw energy flows from the ends of a magnet, and
> > several researchers,  Roy Eugene Davis and Oliver Crane being two random
> > examples, have described cw (S) and ccw (N) energy vortices coming from the
> > two ends of a magnet.
> > The differing healing effects from the two ends of a magnet cannot be
> > accounted for by the normal flux orientations of a magnet, though they are
> > easily explainable in terms of vortical forces.
> >
> > It has been my view for a while now that all phenomena of orgone, chi,
> > prana, etc. can be explained in terms of vortical electromagnetic fields,
> > where the E and B vectors are parallel.  These configurations are more
> > stable than standard fields, and can also explain ball lightning, charge
> > clusters, plasma phenomena, etc.
> > This also relates to the faster than light "torsion field" area.
> >
> > If such a field emanates from an orgone "accumulator" (and I do not think it
> > accumulates anything but acts as a waveguide) then the presence of a magnet
> > might "untwist" some of this trapped em energy and make it detectible by a
> > meter, and available for use.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > >On top of my bed is a heavy duty orgone blanket I made last summer, under
> > my mattress
> > >is a powerful magnetic sleep pad (4000 gauss).  The multimeter was set to
> > the 200mV
> > >setting and it started fluctuating wildly... going as high as 41.70, but
> > averaging
> > >always between
> > >22 to 28.00 approx <snip> Is it just some sort of anomalous flaw in the
> > meter?  Can
> > >anyone provide insight into this?
> > >



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 19:44:52 1999
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From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <stk@sunherald.infi.net>
To: "Freenrg-L" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas 
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:39:43 -0500
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> as opposed to Mr. Scott's version in the 2nd Star Trek movie (the one
with the whales)
                                                          
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

4th. :)

--K.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Aug 26 22:13:01 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:11:50 EDT
Subject: Site updated even more simple design
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Site updated with operational description and design change, animation coming 
soon.
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A>  or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 02:52:28 1999
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:52:01 +1200
From: John Berry <antigrav@ihug.co.nz>
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What about the claim by many on this list that vacuum tubes over energized and
gold heated slight transparency effects can be noted, Rick M. I believe noted
about the gold becoming slightly transparent if you heat a thin layer, and more
than one person noted the partial transparency of vacuum tubes when too much power
was being taken.

Now were getting close ;)


John Berry

William Beaty wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote:
>
> > Bill -
> >
> > Maybe oscillating magnetic fields under layers of organic/metal laminates
> > would create an orgone sucking antenna (he said while contemplating the very
> > fringe, then ...stepping over the edge...).
>
> I like the message from John Berry about invisibility.  I still am aware
> of the vanishing metal reported in the Farnsworth Fusor experiments,
> reported as part of the effect when "white gold" is heated, and reported
> as part of the infamous "Hutchison Effect."
>
> If atoms resonate with the Vector Potential produced by shielded coils,
> perhaps we can resonate all the atoms in an object and make its matter
> behave oddly.  Maybe I'll stumble across the REAL version of the forumula
> for Transparent Aluminum, as opposed to Mr. Scott's version in the 2nd
> Star Trek movie (the one with the whales.)   If I do, I'll put it on my
> website so all the kids can use it in their science fair projects and
> REALLY disturb their teachers.
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 04:11:45 1999
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From: C2hoe@cs.com
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Subject: AW.: Erwin Saxl patent
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Hi Fred!
Please send the pdf-file to me, too.
Many thanks,
Claudia

In einer Nachricht vom 25.08.99 12:16:14 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit 
schreibt fepps@fidalgo.net:

<< I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his 
electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For Measuring 
Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the IBM patent 
server. It includes test results. >>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 05:14:42 1999
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--------------53FFB29FFA95C1B095566A63
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Fred,
Very much apreciate your generous attitude about sharing.  This is how
progress is made.  Please add me to the list to receive ths Saxl patent.

Thanks,   Henry Curtis

Fred Epps wrote:

>  Hi Folks, I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent
> on his electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For
> Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the
> IBM patent server. It includes test results. This has obvious
> relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should be in the
> hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a limited time only" as
> the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want it. I'll
> wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication of
> effort. It will probably be on a site later but this format is handy.
> Please contact me this week if you want it. Fred

--------------53FFB29FFA95C1B095566A63
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Fred,
<br>Very much apreciate your generous attitude about sharing.&nbsp; This
is how progress is made.&nbsp; Please add me to the list to receive ths
Saxl patent.
<p>Thanks,&nbsp;&nbsp; Henry Curtis
<p>Fred Epps wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Hi Folks,</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I
was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his electrified
pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For Measuring Gravitational
And Other Forces".&nbsp; It is not available on the IBM patent server.
It includes test results.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>This
has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and should
be in the hands of these researchers.&nbsp; Accordingly, "for a limited
time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to those who want
it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to avoid duplication
of effort. It will probably be on a site later but this format is handy.
Please contact me this week if you want it.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Fred</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

--------------53FFB29FFA95C1B095566A63--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 08:54:14 1999
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From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortexC-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Bill B's secret of free energy?  YEAH?!!! well...
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It went BANG last night, big time.

Wind a toroidial inductor (self shielding.)

Build a high-Q, high voltage coil/capacitor resonator, attach it to a
small "capacitive dipole" probe antenna.  (Perhaps high frequency will
work better.)

Hold the probe antenna near the toroidial inductor with the dipole aligned
in the same direction of the windings, as if the probe antenna was a small
segment of a toroidial transformer secondary.  Then drive the toroidial
inductor with AC at the resonant frequency of the LC tuned circuit.
Extract energy via a small resistor in series with the inductor of the
tuned circuit.

This might simply form an exotic sort of transformer.  Perform
measurements on the device and see if output vastly exceeds input. 

If I am right, the mathematics of the nearfield violates several known
laws of physics, but nobody has yet seen it.  Neither have I, I only feel
it.  If I am right, then you can extract energy from the resonator, and it
will not load down the inductor.   (Yet another "back-reaction-less" free
energy device.)

In the above, connect the one to the other and watch out, because the
self-oscillation might create an enormous flash. 

I haven't tried this yet.  I'm going to be away for awhile.  If the feces
hits the fan while I'm gone, I'll look for the newspaper headlines!  :)

I am extremely excited about this because the synchronicity storm is at an
all time high right now, as if future events are "sucking history" from
the past into the future at an accelerating rate by the hour.  Very deeply
intensely weird. 

I am extremely excited because I look at "energy sucking antennas", and I
look at this "transformer" thingie, and I look at the Testatika device...
and I say...

oh.   my.    god.

Rotating alternately-charged capactitor plates could stimulate a high-Q
inductor too.  The mechanical version of the above.  The "energy sucking
antenna" sucks energy from the ZPE instead of from the toroidial inductor.

 
(Or perhaps I'm just insane again. The manic/depressive cycle is cycling.)


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 13:36:34 1999
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Bill!

Strange your idea, although I was invited to visit ATGROUP's lab (Now SCGrp) and was shown some circuits similar to your idea's. One was a 4-coil system with two perm magnets in two of the coils. They were pulling power from the AC environmental fields. T






hen they showed me a big like 4" copper rectangle (loop) and circuits connected to it which showed a response of 99.2khz when a human came into the area, it was very pronounced signal as viewed on a scope. They were able (I only saw a bit of this) to caus






e an effect on the subject when tuning this contraption. You talk about strange and energy sucking, they seem to be able to suck on humans.

Okay maybe I did not quite understand, but what I saw was very wierd indeed.
--

On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:53:11   William Beaty wrote:
>
>It went BANG last night, big time.
>



Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Aug 27 15:13:57 1999
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>I am extremely excited about this because the synchronicity storm is at an
>all time high right now, as if future events are "sucking history" from
>the past into the future at an accelerating rate by the hour.  Very deeply
>intensely weird.

The Dalai Lama recently performed the Kalachakra, or "Wheel of Time", Ritual,
which is supposed to accelerate mankind's evolution.  It was originally
performed every 20 years, but his present incarnation is concerned about his
religion's continued existence and has performed it much more often.

--
Williamsport Area Computer Club <http://www.sunlink.net/wacc>
Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2999/svaa.html>
Personal Home Page <http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer>



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 00:58:08 1999
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On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote:

> 
> It went BANG last night, big time.
> 
> Wind a toroidial inductor (self shielding.)
> 
> Build a high-Q, high voltage coil/capacitor resonator, attach it to a
> small "capacitive dipole" probe antenna.  (Perhaps high frequency will
> work better.)
> 
> Hold the probe antenna near the toroidial inductor with the dipole
aligned
> in the same direction of the windings, as if the probe antenna was a
small
> segment of a toroidial transformer secondary.  Then drive the toroidial
> inductor with AC at the resonant frequency of the LC tuned circuit.
> Extract energy via a small resistor in series with the inductor of the
> tuned circuit.
Yes, but this is not exactly what the commonsense tells the free energy
researcher. Essentially the problem becomes how to interface a load with a
resonant process. Let me illustrate this by attempting an explanation with
the method I chose, which was to use huge coils  of 56 Henry and resonate
them at 60 hz wall supply. The load I used was florescent bulbs. Now when
the C of .12 umf is used in series with the L of 56 a 15 fold rise of
voltage occurs across both the inductor and capacitor, BUT IN OPPOSITE
DIRECTIONS,this is the meaning of the statement that the voltages across the
inductor and capacitor are 180 degrees out of phase in series resonance. So
having turned 120 into 120(15)=1800 volts by the resonant rise of voltage,
it makes sense to place the load in PARALLEL to either L or C so that this
voltage can act similar to that from an output transformer. What is found is
that this load actually in turn diminishes the resonant rise of voltage in
the first place, which makes for a catch 22 proposition in trying to harness
electrical high voltages present in series resonance. This is an example of
a resonant choke circuit were the voltage presented to the load is directly
dependent on the loads resistance from this first prototype of an "impedance
transformer" we are considering.

Because of this exotic quality as you mention it this power source can do
some amazing things. If two bulbs in series are tried across the
inductor,(or capacitor) about twice the voltage then appears across both
elements, with three bulbs about 3 fold the voltage appears and so on within
the parameters of the maximum 1800 volts available  as the series resonant
rise of voltage. What actually is happening is that one bulb takes the
system out of resonance to the furthest degree because of the rerouting of
amperage that occurs on the component it is in parallel to.(Remember
Kirchoffs nodal amperage rules, the amperage that enters a junction is
balanced by that leaving).
Since the resistance of the coil is 1000 ohms and the condition of a 30 watt
gas discharge is approximated as a much lower resistance than that of 1000
ohms the current takes the path of least resistance, THAT PATH BEING a path
of rerouted amperage that no longer predominately uses the inductor as its
pathway. In fact the new pathway then becomes predominately a capacitive
reactance, with a much lower amperage conduction  characteristic,
essentially that amperage through the bulb is choked off by its action of
choking or shutting off the resonance that caused the amperage and voltage
rise to begin with! Now one can glimpse why this is called a catch-22
proposition, but is better further understood by what I like to call the
Maintenance Man Question.

Given this 1000 ohm coil plugged into the wall I note that it only consumes
5 ma. I ask the maintenance man what will happen if I connect this in series
with a capacitor that also consumes 5 ma by itself. It does not consume half
the amperage in those conditions, nor double, but 15 times the amperage.
Okay thats fine because we know that the inductive reactance has now
cancelled the capacitive reactance, leaving a condition of zero impedance
where the amperage can approach that given by Ohms law of resistance. But
what makes this happen? What has happened is that the voltage within the
circuit has risen to the point to make the higher amperage conduction at
Ohms law possible! In the meantime the magnetic field appears to loose its
inertial quality because the magnetic field appears to instanteously appear
from its impressed voltage, with little time lag between cause and effect as
is noted by the DC effect of inductance. Again this is because the amperage
"effect" is now closely in phase with the voltage "cause" where voltage and
amperage are in phase at series resonance. So now it should be understood
that the voltage rise is intricably connected and associated with the
amperage rise, take one away and the other follows. Thus in the folly that
follows by placing a load in parallel to one of the elements in series
resonance the amount of amperage rerouted around that element, then in turn
shuts down the available amount of voltage rise. By making the load as a
higher resistance this correspondingly diverts less amperage in comparison
out of the resonant rise of voltage process, enabling the voltage to the
load to appear as a higher value. Now I realize your idea of placing the
load in series with the inductor is different from the above, in that case
the q of the coil is reduced and also the voltage rise which is q dependent,
but I think essentially everyone who wrestles with the idea of harnessing
electrical resonance is presented with the following problem; WHERE
SCHEMATICALLY SHOULD THE LOAD BE PLACED? Should it be placed in parallel to
one of the voltage rises previously described, obviously not because of the
choking paradox that was described.
If the loads were placed across both the inductive and capacitive voltage
rises this then makes a new path of connection between them which means none
of the current will conduct in the resonance, it should conduct through the
newly formed short, although I have not tried this for obvious reasons.

So now one looks for another solution in another possibility, that brings a
snide comment from me.
The term electrical resonance is bandied about in such a way as if it only
means one thing as a generalization, when in actuality the concept is two
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PROPOSITIONS. Sometimes posts are made and the readers
are left wondering whether the author is refering to a parallel or series
resonant circuit, as if the two were synonomous! Nothing could be further
from the truth. Parallel resonance is antiresonance. This is the often
quoted "tank circuit".
Because amperage is now limited to the amount that can be inputed at its
maximum impedance, the actual amperage existing INSIDE the circuit can
exceed that of its input. This is refered in the old literature as resonant
rise of amperage. In the first case a greater than input voltage is
available inside the circuit with those voltages going against each other or
180 degrees out of phase:with the resultant summation appearing as the input
voltage @ series res. In the second example the inductive and capacitive
currents travel in  opposite directions on two parallel paths,WITH THE
RESULTANT SUMMATION BEING EXPRESSED AS THE INPUT CURRENT, which can be
expressed also to show current into a node = current out. Now the free
energy guy thinks maybe he can use a tank circuit instead, but the same
problem of load location occurs where if it is on the inductive  branch it
DISTURBS THE BALANCE OF REACTIVE CURRENTS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EFFECT,almost
exactly similar to the inverse idea of placing the load on the capacitive
branch which should have ALMOST the same adverse effect.(I am exploring this
almost condition where impedance does not closely approximate inductive
reactance)

One can see from these arguments that the load should be placed equally on
both reactances without creating a new short of current conduction which
takes amperage out around the loop of resonant conduction. The solution I
employed as a result of actual thinking and many bar elbows was to take two
inductors in series, matched with two capacitors in series, and both of
these branches in parallel. I then twisted the bottom half of the schematic
into a figure 8 path. This makes a new conduction pathway shared by both the
inductive  and capacitive branches and is the logical place to put a load,
without in turn reducing the resonance that the former methods entailed.
Most unusual in this application is that the reactive currents in opposition
combine to unity along this pathway since each reactive path is used by both
in opposite directions.

What becomes more intriguing is that an arc gap can be actuated at the load
exactly according to the historical methods employed to produce a high
frequency effect, but the facts as I see them tell me that all the other
methods found in HISTORY show an oscillation in and out of resonance as
employed in the tesla coil primary and analogous to the previous discussion
of placing a load that causes a reactive current to predominate and shut
down a resonance.

A tesla coil has NEVER been constructed with two primaries using this method
of oscillation as I have described in tesla archives of May 99 at
tesla@pupman.com as BRAG schematic. Bill Wysock wrote me a letter saying he
has already done this, and I replied that he does not understand because his
model 12 approaches the same idea but does not incorporate a separate
capacitor for each 180 phasing, and the placement of the arc gap is
schematically different.

What has been consistantly misunderstood is one simple fact, there is a
substantial difference beween causing an oscillation going in and out of
resonance, and causing an oscillation that FLUCTUATES BETWEEN SERIES AND
PARALLEL RESONANCES.Using the 60 hz resonant coils to produce a high
frequency effect according to historical method produces a 5000 hz signal
correlating to the quarter wavelength of 9 miles of wire and massive EM
signature, but the method I am talking about produces a  relatively clean
high frequency of 166,000 hz WITHOUT a significant radio bleed-off. The
coils have much more freedom to vibrate at their natural resonant
frequency.

To go FURTHER... Perhaps this thread should continue as Harvey N's secret of
free energy since I am getting long winded, but what I have previously
discussed as placement of a load is not in itself readily harnessed as an
over unity process. It is that idea IN CONJUNCTION WITH ANOTHER IDEA, that
consists of my definition of correct placement of a load in a resonant
process. I have called that the spatial harnessing of resonance but have not
yet been able to deliver proof of this. After a great deal of enquiree I am
now procuring the neon tubes that may show this effect.

> This might simply form an exotic sort of transformer.  Perform
> measurements on the device and see if output vastly exceeds input. 
In the preceeding system I have called a Binary Resonant System,and others
have called an impedance transformer, the output does not exceed the input.
However in one experiment this was indicated to be the case by allowing the
capacity to be concentrated in a small area in the magnetic field
interaction of the two coils. This experiment has not been repeated due to
time and the damaging effects of components, but resembles what occurs as
Bill calls a self oscillation producing an enormous flash. In this case it
occured as arcing similar to that of a tesla primary, but without the means
for the amperage to appear in the circuit.
> If I am right, the mathematics of the nearfield violates several known
> laws of physics, but nobody has yet seen it.  Neither have I, I only feel
> it.  If I am right, then you can extract energy from the resonator, and
it
> will not load down the inductor.   (Yet another "back-reaction-less" free
> energy device.)
> 
> In the above, connect the one to the other and watch out, because the
> self-oscillation might create an enormous flash. 
> 
> I haven't tried this yet.  I'm going to be away for awhile.  If the feces
> hits the fan while I'm gone, I'll look for the newspaper headlines!  :)
> 
> I am extremely excited about this because the synchronicity storm is at
an
> all time high right now, as if future events are "sucking history" from
> the past into the future at an accelerating rate by the hour.  Very
deeply
> intensely weird. 
> 
Perhaps Truth is the very most weird thing of all.
HDN




________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 02:14:26 1999
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From: "Peter Fred" <pbfred@choice.net>
To: "Freenrg-L" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration
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David

I took a flat sheet of copper and illuminated it or heated it from above =
at about 9 cm with 2250 watts and observed its weight drop.  It dropped =
a little then went back to it original weight.  Then I bent the sheet so =
it formed a half cylinder.  When I illuminated it with 2250 watts with =
hot plate heating elements placed at the center of half cylinder, its =
weight dropped a little better than noise or 0.004 N or 0.054 % of the =
sheet's total weight. =20

The other day I got much more clearer results with a hemisphere.  When I =
illuminated a colander with a blackened aluminum sheet on the inside =
with 2250 watts for 330 seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight loss =
of 1.96 %.  Then I illuminated a circular aluminum sheet with the same =
area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating elements about 1/2 =
inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight or a 0.010 =
N drop.  The aluminum sheet was a little bit thicker than the aluminum =
of the colander.  Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the =
colander's initial downward force was 1.3 N. =20


Also I found another source where it looks at though a UFO is kicking =
out heat from its spherical shaped bottom.
In David Darlington's Area 51 p.73 he quotes Bob Lazar saying after he =
saw a "UFO" perform at Area 51=20

"It was sitting on the ground...The disc sat on the ground for a period =
of time, then the bottom of it glowed blue and it began to hiss, like =
high voltage does on a round sphere.  It's my impression that they're =
round and have no sharp edges is to contain the voltage....It lifted off =
the ground, quietly except for that little hiss in the  background, and =
stopped as soon as it reached about twenty or thirty feet.  It shifted =
to the left, shifted over to the right, and sat back down.  I mean it =
doesn't sound like much, but it was incredibly impressive, =
just--mind-boggling.  It's just magic!"=20


Peter Fred


http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ =20





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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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David<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>I took a flat sheet of copper and =
illuminated
it or heated it from above at about 9 cm with 2250 watts and observed =
its
weight drop.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>It dropped a =
little then
went back to it original weight.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 =
</span>Then I
bent the sheet so it formed a half cylinder.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">=A0
</span>When I illuminated it with 2250 watts with hot plate heating =
elements
placed at the center of half cylinder, its weight dropped a little =
better than
noise or 0.004 N or 0.054 % of the sheet's total weight.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>The other day I got much more clearer =
results
with a hemisphere.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>When I =
illuminated a
colander with a blackened aluminum sheet on the inside with 2250 watts =
for 330
seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight loss of 1.96 %.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>Then I illuminated a circular =
aluminum sheet
with the same area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating =
elements
about 1/2 inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight =
or a
0.010 N drop.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>The aluminum =
sheet was a
little bit thicker than the aluminum of the colander.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">=A0 </span>Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the =
colander's
initial downward force was 1.3 N.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>Also I found another source where it =
looks at
though a UFO is kicking out heat from its spherical shaped =
bottom.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>In David Darlington's <i><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>Area 51</span></i> p.73 he quotes Bob Lazar =
saying
after he saw a &quot;UFO&quot; perform at Area 51 =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;It was =
sitting on the
ground=85The disc sat on the ground for a period of time, then the =
bottom of it
glowed blue and it began to hiss, like high voltage does on a round
sphere.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>It's my impression =
that they're
round and have no sharp edges is to contain the voltage=85.It lifted off =
the
ground, quietly except for that little hiss in the<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">=A0 </span>background, and stopped as soon as it reached about =
twenty or
thirty feet.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>It shifted to =
the left,
shifted over to the right, and sat back down.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0
</span>I mean it doesn't sound like much, but it was incredibly =
impressive,
just--mind-boggling.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>It's =
just
magic!&quot; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>Peter =
Fred<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><a =
href=3D"http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/">http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/</a=
><span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'><![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 02:15:27 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Rowlandnet censorship
Message-Id: <935831684.21634.572@excite.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:14:44 PDT
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I am quite amused that for the second time my comments have been removed
from Rowland Net BBS discussion list. I am even more amused that when I
mentioned this in a post on Rowlandnet discussion board where my entrees
were not submitted  that they then appeared. Their policy of course allows
this, any posting not responded to in ten days can be deleted. Of course it
makes one wonder when some of  discussion entrees have last been posted to
months ago, and they have not been responded to since, but yet still exist.
   Nevertheless the 4 Phase Electrical System entries I posted there no
longer exist. I submited this as a scientific questioning involved with the
fact that a 500 ohm resistive path is not chosen over a 400,000 ohm
impedance path when both paths can be taken exactly analogous to a parallel
circuit. Once bitten, twice shy, I will no longer waste my time there. Part
of these entrees were submitted to freenrg as Elfrad Group 
Response also contained at my message board: The Harnessing of Electrical
Resonance
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201

My last post at that  RowlandNet location hinted at  the importance of an
electrical system that can immediately remove the voltage to a water sample
for purposes of water fractioning as advocated by Meyer and Puharich at
higher frequencies. I guess I should rewrite that thing and post it to
freenrg around 9/7/99. I dont think this list has any censorship.
Sincerly HDN




________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 03:45:52 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: ATGROUP Site down ?
Cc: atg0317@wt.net, atgroup@atgroup.org
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99  11:42:18 +0100
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Hi,
I am back from my vacations and I can not access the
atgroup site at:

www.atgroup.org

Anybody else able to connect ?

Regards, Stefan.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 04:39:58 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: 60 hz resonant coils
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If some one asks me why I believe free energy  is possible I take them to
the room and point out those 60 hz resonant coils. A description follows:
approximately 80 lbs of no 23 gauge copper consisting of ~ 20,000 winds on a
five inch diameter plastic core, consisting of a wire length of ~ 9 miles
and having a resistance of 1000 ohms. Z= 20,000 ohms L= 56 Henry

However when I plug the coil into the 120v,60hz wall socket it acts as a
quantity of 20,000 ohms due to the impedance of the coil. This is the
additional resistive effect of the inertial qualities of the magnetic field
being asked to reverse its polarity 120 times per second and is actually
known as the quantity inductive reactance. In the case of this coil the
inductive reactance comprises over 99.8% of the total derived impedance
quantity noted as Z.

So now when 5 ma conducts through the coil by simply plugging it into the
wall these rms values are already inherent in the meter readings that
deliver this average amperage reading. Any arguments about whether this
amperage is in phase with its impressed voltage and whether it consists of
reactive power that is somehow exempt from the rules and any other construed
nonsense about phase angles and  mathematical true power input are totally
irrevalent to the actual amperage reading conduction observed by the meter.
That actual amperage reading is ALREADY the RESULT of those phase angle
considerations  that allow the available amperage to conduct. In any case
the true power input should be identical to that spent on heating losses
expressed as I^2R wattage expenditure. 

Now this coil of 1000 ohms  will conduct about 75 ma when in 60 hz
resonance. This is an energy expenditure of about 15 watts as I^2R heating
loss. Watts are expressed as joules/sec of work or energy flow. If we then
calculate the energy stored in kinetic and potential as magnetic energy in
1/2LI^2  where L=56 Henry and electric potential in 1/2CV^2 where C=.12umf
we find that this transfer of energy occurs between fields 120 times per
second, which then expressed as amount of joules transfer per second to be
about 45 watts, or 3 times the input. HOWEVER THE METHODS TO EXTRACT THAT 45
WATTS SCHEMATICALLY CANNOT BE DESCRIBED AS A SIMPLE CONDITION OF WHERE THE
WIRES GO AND CONNECTED TO WHAT.The  C that is resonating could exist in the
SPACE of L at right angles and the third angle output could tap into the 45
watt energy transfer without diminishing the potential contained in the
electric field.
  
In line with this thinking I am ordering neon tubes to fill the inner area
of the coils where the predominant magnetic field exists. These tubes will
form a Hubbard like assembly in the form of a cylindrical capacitor. The
exciting impulse to ionize the gas will not come from the end electrodes,
but will go straight through the glass from the cylindrical axial electric
field plates connected to the V in 1/2CV^2. The actual end electrodes will
then serve as the output in this sort of reverse application of the normal
function of a neon tube.

Hope this application works as a lorentz converter!
HDN




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 06:37:41 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:36:54 -0700
From: "Robert Decker" <r.decker@justicemail.com>
Message-ID: <CLIIPGDLEILKFAAA@shared3.whowhere.com>
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They had a name change because of some name conflict with another business with same name and the owner let their DBA expire. I don't think the site is back up as yet, but unless they change names again before doing so I think they will be called either '






Stiffler Consulting Group' or 'Nu-Energy Systems Group'

If you know the owner try contacting him for additional info.

Bob.
--

On Sat, 28 Aug 99  11:42:18    Stefan Hartmann wrote:
>Hi,
>I am back from my vacations and I can not access the
>atgroup site at:
>
>www.atgroup.org
>
>Anybody else able to connect ?
>
>Regards, Stefan.
>--
>Hartmann Multimedia Service
>Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann
>WEB-Site: www.harti.com  www.ccard.net
>email: harti@harti.com   info@ccard.net
>
>
>


Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 08:29:23 1999
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Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:29:19 +1200
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Now I really need to get in contact with them!

Robert Decker wrote:

> Bill!
>
> Strange your idea, although I was invited to visit ATGROUP's lab (Now SCGrp) and was shown some circuits similar to your idea's. One was a 4-coil system with two perm magnets in two of the coils. They were pulling power from the AC environmental fields.






 Then they showed me a big like 4" copper rectangle (loop) and circuits connected to it which showed a response of 99.2khz when a human came into the area, it was very pronounced signal as viewed on a scope. They were able (I only saw a bit of this) to ca






use an effect on the subject when tuning this contraption. You talk about strange and energy sucking, they seem to be able to suck on humans.
>
> Okay maybe I did not quite understand, but what I saw was very wierd indeed.
> --
>
> On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:53:11   William Beaty wrote:
> >
> >It went BANG last night, big time.
> >
>
> Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 10:36:38 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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Subject: Power Beaming
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:35:05 -0400
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http://home.doe.gov/lasers.htm has some Interesting Stuff on
wireless power transmission.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 10:39:06 1999
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Subject: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!!
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ON THE POSSIBILITY THAT KNOWN PHENOMENA REGARDING THE
ELECTROMAGNETIC NEARFIELD CONTAINS A BLATANT VIOLATION OF
FUNDAMENTAL LAWS OF PHYSICS

William J. Beaty   8/28/99

I've always had a niggling suspicion that toroidial transformers are
far more weird than anyone suspects.  If we wind ourselves a toroidial
(donut) inductor and plug it into a 120VAC wall plug, the device in
theory won't draw any flow of energy.  However, if we then wind a 1-turn

secondary "coil" around the donut (through its hole) and short out this
"coil",  a huge amperage appears in the wire, the coil grows red hot,
and many hundreds of watts are drawn from the donut inductor and from
the wall outlet.

Why is this weird?  After all, it's just the way that normal
transformers
work.  But think for a moment.  In donut-inductors, the magnetic
field-lines
from each turn of wire extend over to the area enclosed by the next turn

of wire, and as a result the magnetic field connects in a circle, and no

field extends past the surface of the donut.   Yet the secondary coil is

entirely *outside* the donut, and therefor the magnetic flux never
touches
it.  The question arises: how does the magnetic field inside the donut-
inductor create a current in the secondary coil if no magnetic flux
touches
the secondary coil?  Electronics students always ask this question.  The

answer in the past has always been that it is simply a law of physics.

My suspicion that the above effect might hide profound mysteries is
greatly
amplified by the fact that mainstream scientists aren't intrigued by
this
effect.  They essentially have unilaterally DECLARED IT TO BE
UNINTERESTING.
This is a strange position for a scientist to take.  If something is
strange
and not quite explicable, wouldn't it stimulate their curiousity?
Instead
it does the opposite!  I see that this is very common in modern
science.  It
is a sort of hidden sickness that penetrates every facet of science, and

twists it into something that is entirely different than what scientists

believe it to be.  The same "sickess" once caused scientists to declare
"electricity" to be entirely separate from "magnetism" until a high
school
science teacher accidentally placed a compass next to a wire during a
classroom demonstration, thus proving that the earlier declaration was
a fantasy based upon arrogance rather than a learned conclusion based
upon experimentation.  Up until recently the same "sickness" caused
contemporary physicists to dismiss the vector potential in Maxwell's
equations as being an unimportant, mathematical abstraction and this
situation held for many decades until Bohm/Anarohov showed that Vector
Potential had an important and unmistakable impact upon the everyday
world.

The field around a donut-inductor acts as if it cannot be shielded.  If
we try to place a metal shield between the primary and secondary of the
donut-transformer, this simply creates another "shorted secondary
winding"
on the transformer.  The shield becomes hot and draws an additional
energy-
flow from the wall plug, but as long as the resistance of the windings
is
low, it won't stop our original secondary from drawing its own,
independant
energy flow.  The "voltage circles" surrounding a donut-transformer are
apparantly unshieldable.

This might be "weird", but unless we can take the phenomena apart and
analyze
it, we can make no headway.  For example, can we remove the
transformer's
secondary coil to a great distance from the primary? Yes, but only if we
make
the entire donut-inductor larger, since the secondary must still thread
through
the "hole in the donut".  If we do this, we have not "taken it apart" at
all,
because it still remains as a functioning transformer.  If only we could

unwind the secondary partially, and see what happens when we induce
voltage in
half of a turn, rather than in a single complete turn or in an integer
number
of complete turns.  If our transformer only has a half-turn as its
secondary
coil, won't it behave quite differently than a conventional
transformer?  But
unfortunately a fractional-turn in a transformer winding is impossible.

Also I've always wondered if the energy-flow between primary and
secondary
of a transformer is instantaneous or if it obeys the speed of light.  It

seems as if there's no way to test this, because if we make the
transformer
bigger, we must lower the operating frequency so that the secondary coil
stays
within the "nearfield" region.  We also must stick to a low frequency,
otherwise
the whole transformer will start acting like a conventional radio
antenna, and
we'll no longer be analyzing a transformer, we'll be analyzing a radio
transmitter
which broadcasts to a distant "loop antenna" (the secondary coil becomes
this
"loop antenna.")

This problem remained stuck in my mind since high school.  Why did I not
just
drop it and get on with things, like all the rest of science apparantly
has
done?  I did not, because I take intuition seriously.  My intuition has
led
me into many facinating places.  Conventional science seems publicly to
regard
the intuition as irrational and therefor nonexistant (this though many
scientists *individually* take their intuitions seriously).  My
intuition led
me to do the opposite of modern science: assume that "inexplicable
phenomena"
are fiercely important, rather than to assume that they are embarassing
mistakes
and crackpottery which must be disparaged.  My intuition led me to take
the
"crackpot physics underground" extremely seriously, to follow BBSs like
Decker's KEELYNET for years, and to provide several internet forums and
a large
website dedicated to the "dark underbelly" of science which most
scientists
prefer would just go away.  My intuition led me to study at the feet of
Tesla,
rather than regarding him as some sort of crackpot/fraud who claimed to
have
really invented radio, and who thought that he could transmit megawatts
across
thousands of miles without wires.

The key to the mystery of the toroidial transformer is in the Nikola
Tesla
concepts.  If you *know* that Tesla was a crackpot, you might as well
just
stop reading right now, because the rest of my paper is just a waste of
reading time.

Tesla's energy-transfer system was based on huge tesla coils, but it was

also based upon a strange little device: a tiny coil/capacitor device
which can reach out and intercept vast flows of energy even though it is

far, far smaller than the wavelength of the radio waves which Tesla was
broadcasting.  (See ENERGY-SUCKING ANTENNAS for more info:
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html).  These energy-receiver
devices
are not unknown to modern science.  They explain how atoms can intercept

light waves even though atoms are thousands of times too small to behave

as efficient radio antennas.  (See the papers by Chris Bohren
Spaniol/Sutton,
and others in the references of tesceive.html.)

There's something weird about these papers.  They imply that atoms are
surrounded by a vibrating "nearfield EM" field.  In my experience such
a field is not taken seriously by modern physics.  I've never heard
about it in all my reading.  After all, atoms supposedly emit and absorb

photon-particles, they don't spew out EM fields when no photons are
being emitted or absorbed.  Yet if these fields are real, they should
connect with many other phenomena in physics.  These "energy sucking"
fields appear to be a hole in physics which *may* lead to amazing new
realms of research.

They do lead to one thing:  an interesting device which may simply be
an exotic sort of transformer, and which might let us do some
interesting
investigations of the physics of the toroidial inductor, but which also
might be a way to directly tap into the infamous Zero Point Energy field

of empty space and light lightbulbs, run motors, etc.

Build yourself a capacitive-mode "energy sucking antenna" (the kind that

has an electrically-small dipole antenna connected to an RLC resonant
circuit of extremely high Q-factor).  Place it near a toroidial
inductor.
Power the inductor with AC (perhaps the frequency should be high?)
The frequency of the RLC tuned circuit must match the frequency of the
AC drive of the donut-inductor.  Align the short dipole antenna so that
it acts like a sort of "fractional turn" surrounding the toroidial
inductor.
Measure the energy flow going into the donut and coming out of the tuned

circuit.  Move the dipole antenna so it is no longer within the
nearfield
region surrounding the donut-inductor.  I suspect that the output
wattage
will not match the input, and that excess energy comes out of the
device.

Obviously this blatently violates Conservation of Energy.  Not only
that,
it also violates the spirit of Newton's laws themselves, because the
donut
inductor "acts upon" the tuned circuit, yet the tuned circuit cannot
return
the favor.  A tail-chasing effect would arise, somewhat like the
electrical
equivalent of an "Inertialess spaceship drive", and energy would
apparantly
come from nowhere.

According to conventional transformer theory, the fields outside the
donut-
coil should drive the short dipole, the dipole should store energy in
the
tuned circuit, this oscillating energy should build up continuously, and

an intense e-field should appear on the dipole antenna.  Because of the
"Energy-sucking Antenna" effect, this e-field should grab quite a large
hunk of energy-flow from the donut inductor.  If my suspicions are
right,
then the donut inductor won't be affected: it won't supply energy to the

tuned circuit.

This is flat out impossible.

But as the saying goes, "If it happens, it must be possible."   :)

If there is an energy gain, then probably we can wind a small
pickup-coil
onto the inductor of the tuned circuit, then connect the terminals of
the
donut-coil to this small pickup-coil instead of to the high-frequency
generator.  This will form a so-called "stand-alone closed-loop free
energy device."  Without some sort of governor mechnism such as some
back-
to-back Zener diodes connected across the tuned circuit,  the ZPE energy

would build up within fractions of a second and cause a piece of the
wire
to melt (or perhaps the whole device would vanish in an immense flash
and
a clould of green copper-oxide smoke.)

Shades of Robert Heinlein!  Didn't he write a couple of stories about
just
this device?  I think one was called "Brown Shoes".  There was also
another
one about a shipload of soldiers who landed on a planet where this
device
had been discovered, and the soldiers immediately muntiny against their
"evil" commander and go off into the country to live as they want,
independant
of any need for fuel and the political networks which control people by
keeping
them dependant upon that fuel.

The above "donut inductor" effect has not been tested.  The WHY the hell
am I
rambling on like this?  It's all just speculation!  Yes.  I haven't even
done
any MATH on this device.  Why am I so excited?  Simple: its my
intuition.
My intuition screams maniacally that this is the key that unlocks
EVERYTHING.
It says that the "hole in physics" can tear open, unleashing a vast
torrent
which will change the world overnight.  It says the things that all the
crackpots
are famous for saying: Einstein was wrong, Quantum Mechanics is not what
it seems,
electromagnetic fields have existence independant of photons, fluid
vortices (by
electromagnetic analogy) provide energy and allow airplanes to fly
without motors,
Tesla was right, and modern physics is on a dead-end path which resulted
from a
misstep that occured many, many years ago.  But crackpots have ALWAYS
been saying
this!  Not me.  I have not been saying it, I've only been listening to
the people
who do, and I've been hoping that one of them would give some actual
evidence to
support their ideas.   I only started "spouting the crackpot line" after
seeing
the missing puzzle-piece snap into place and the entire "mechanism" of
the "puzzle"
suddenly light up and start to function.

On the off chance that this device is REAL, I decided to add a bunch of
peripheral
stuff to this paper.  Should the device actually work, this paper will
become
famous, and I can use it for "advertizing".    Paranoid delusions of
grandeaur?
Perhaps!  :)  But remember, I'm still saying that the effect is
untested, that only
my intuition is going wild about it, and I acknowledge that my rational
western
side does not know what to make of all of this.  My Western Self it
sitting back
and being greatly entertained.   :)

If the above device works, then the next step is to...  start my own
"religion!"  :)
I've always wanted one of my own to play with.  :)  If this device is
real, it
shows that the several odd philosophical techniques which I've been
using to
run my life are entirely valid, and ANYONE could have made this
discovery if
they had decided to stop strutting around like ego-enflated fools and
instead
just sit down and concentrate on learning how to take the "blinders" off
and
actually gaze past themselves and see the rest of the world.

Perhaps the world is safe from change and I am just crazy.  I have news
for you.
*ALL* crazy people are visionaries.  They see strange things which no
one else
can see.  We in the western world despize our visionaries.  They are
embarassing,
but much worse, they often tell us things which we simply cannot stand
to hear.
We declare them to be incompetent, and the visionaries themselves come
to believe
the same, which effectively silences their embarassing voices.  If
someone calls
me crazy, I thank them for the compliment. Uh oh, I think I myself hear
the
men in white coats at the door!  :)    Better send this out before I
realize
that I'm just insane, that none of this could possibly be real, and that
I need
to get a bit more sleep and to stop damaging my credibibility in front
of thousands
of strangers by talking excitedly about shamefully crazy stuff.   And
then delete
it instead of sending it.

Who's going to be the first to test this?  Not me, I'm on vacation and
don't have
access to any equipment.  Only a fool would waste time testing such a
crazy idea,
so I'll probably have to volunteer to be that fool.   Either it will
work or it
will not (or perhaps it is real, but as with "Cold Fusion," the first
few experiments
will be flawed and the phenomenon will not express itself until far more
work is
done.)  If nobody makes any fantastic discoveries before I get back,
I'll start
messing with it.  My "self" doesn't have any good reason to judge that
this
phenomeon is real.  It's only my subconscious which is almost going off
the
deep end with excited yammering.

If somebody DOES take this seriously and start playing with it, and if
there
is nothing unexpected hidden here, then I'll just have to blame them for

taking seriously the ravings of crackpots on the internet.  And then
pull a
"Rosanne Rosannadanna" and say...     "never mind."

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) )
)))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST
website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird
science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L
webhead-L


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 14:33:04 1999
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Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:27:16
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!!
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Hi Bill and all,
At 09:32 AM 8/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
>ON THE POSSIBILITY THAT KNOWN PHENOMENA REGARDING THE
>ELECTROMAGNETIC NEARFIELD CONTAINS A BLATANT VIOLATION OF
>FUNDAMENTAL LAWS OF PHYSICS
>
>William J. Beaty   8/28/99
>
>I've always had a niggling suspicion that toroidial transformers are
>far more weird than anyone suspects.  If we wind ourselves a toroidial
>(donut) inductor and plug it into a 120VAC wall plug, the device in
>theory won't draw any flow of energy.  However, if we then wind a 1-turn
>
>secondary "coil" around the donut (through its hole) and short out this
>"coil",  a huge amperage appears in the wire, the coil grows red hot,
>and many hundreds of watts are drawn from the donut inductor and from
>the wall outlet.
>
>Why is this weird?  After all, it's just the way that normal
>transformers
>work.  But think for a moment.  In donut-inductors, the magnetic
>field-lines
>from each turn of wire extend over to the area enclosed by the next turn
>
>of wire, and as a result the magnetic field connects in a circle, and no
>
>field extends past the surface of the donut.   Yet the secondary coil is
>
>entirely *outside* the donut, and therefor the magnetic flux never
>touches
>it.  The question arises: how does the magnetic field inside the donut-
>inductor create a current in the secondary coil if no magnetic flux
>touches
>the secondary coil?  Electronics students always ask this question. 

I think this true also for a normal transformer too. A "core" type core, as
opposed to an "EI shell" type looks like a square toroid. The "EI" type
looks like 2 side by side. Of course the windings usually are not wound to
cover the whole core.
 
>The field around a donut-inductor acts as if it cannot be shielded.  If
>we try to place a metal shield between the primary and secondary of the
>donut-transformer, this simply creates another "shorted secondary
>winding"
>on the transformer.  The shield becomes hot and draws an additional
>energy-
>flow from the wall plug, but as long as the resistance of the windings
>is
>low, it won't stop our original secondary from drawing its own,
>independant
>energy flow.  The "voltage circles" surrounding a donut-transformer are
>apparantly unshieldable.

Yes one can shield them magnetically as well. This leads me to believe the
vector potential A is involved, like in the Aharonov-Bohm effect. I posted
some tests about a year ago. For the electrical shielding I used coax. cable.
>
>This might be "weird", but unless we can take the phenomena apart and
>analyze
>it, we can make no headway.  For example, can we remove the
>transformer's
>secondary coil to a great distance from the primary? Yes, but only if we
>make
>the entire donut-inductor larger, since the secondary must still thread
>through
>the "hole in the donut".  If we do this, we have not "taken it apart" at
>all,
>because it still remains as a functioning transformer.

Yes the Faraday law says the induced voltage is from the flux linkage- it
says "what" will be observed but not "how".

>If only we could
>
>unwind the secondary partially, and see what happens when we induce
>voltage in
>half of a turn, rather than in a single complete turn or in an integer
>number
>of complete turns.  If our transformer only has a half-turn as its
>secondary
>coil, won't it behave quite differently than a conventional
>transformer?  But
>unfortunately a fractional-turn in a transformer winding is impossible.

I haven't figured out any coil circuit yet that isn't, in total, a complete
number of turns. If you wind enough pri. turns, you can have an air core
60Hz. transformer, (Hello Harvey) or at least a gap where the secondary is
located. Thus you can wind a "1/2" turn and move it and/or the leads around
to see what happens. So far, it seems to be consistant with the "flux
linkage" rule.
>
>Also I've always wondered if the energy-flow between primary and
>secondary
>of a transformer is instantaneous or if it obeys the speed of light.

Maybe with 2 secondaries, one spaced apart, one could measure the transit
time between them. I would do this if I had suitable equipment. Seeing the
effect of a 4cm path at 60Hz. may require more stability than the AC line
frequency as well...
It
>
>seems as if there's no way to test this, because if we make the
>transformer
>bigger, we must lower the operating frequency so that the secondary coil
>stays
>within the "nearfield" region. 


>This problem remained stuck in my mind since high school.  Why did I not
>just
>drop it and get on with things, like all the rest of science apparantly
>has
>done?  I did not, because I take intuition seriously.  My intuition has
>led
>me into many facinating places.  Conventional science seems publicly to
>regard
>the intuition as irrational and therefor nonexistant (this though many
>scientists *individually* take their intuitions seriously).

These questions were actively ignored in my case. Trying to figure out the
Poynting vector to the secondary does not work because there is no B or H
field, for example...

>There's something weird about these papers.  They imply that atoms are
>surrounded by a vibrating "nearfield EM" field.  In my experience such
>a field is not taken seriously by modern physics.  I've never heard
>about it in all my reading.  After all, atoms supposedly emit and absorb
>
>photon-particles, they don't spew out EM fields when no photons are
>being emitted or absorbed.  Yet if these fields are real, they should
>connect with many other phenomena in physics.  These "energy sucking"
>fields appear to be a hole in physics which *may* lead to amazing new
>realms of research.
>
>They do lead to one thing:  an interesting device which may simply be
>an exotic sort of transformer, and which might let us do some
>interesting
>investigations of the physics of the toroidial inductor, but which also
>might be a way to directly tap into the infamous Zero Point Energy field
>
>of empty space and light lightbulbs, run motors, etc.

>Build yourself a capacitive-mode "energy sucking antenna" (the kind that
>
>has an electrically-small dipole antenna connected to an RLC resonant
>circuit of extremely high Q-factor).  Place it near a toroidial
>inductor.
>Power the inductor with AC (perhaps the frequency should be high?)
>The frequency of the RLC tuned circuit must match the frequency of the
>AC drive of the donut-inductor.  Align the short dipole antenna so that
>it acts like a sort of "fractional turn" surrounding the toroidial
>inductor.
>Measure the energy flow going into the donut and coming out of the tuned
>
>circuit.  Move the dipole antenna so it is no longer within the
>nearfield
>region surrounding the donut-inductor.  I suspect that the output
>wattage
>will not match the input, and that excess energy comes out of the
>device.
>
>The above "donut inductor" effect has not been tested.  The WHY the hell
>am I
>rambling on like this? 
Because... it is really strange!

Didn't the Sutton "black-hole" antenna just take energy from a larger
volume of space? No excess energy _just_ in that. How much different is the
test of a regen. receiver with direct short wire antenna picking up the RF
from a transmitter tank circuit? (Some early receivers used air core
toroidal coils)
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 14:33:05 1999
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Hi Harvey and all,
At 04:39 AM 8/28/99 PDT, Harvey wrote:

>So now when 5 ma conducts through the coil by simply plugging it into the
>wall these rms values are already inherent in the meter readings that
>deliver this average amperage reading. Any arguments about whether this
>amperage is in phase with its impressed voltage and whether it consists of
>reactive power that is somehow exempt from the rules and any other construed
>nonsense about phase angles and  mathematical true power input are totally
>irrevalent to the actual amperage reading conduction observed by the meter.

You have lost me here, Harvey. RMS and phase angle are two different concepts.
To get a power number, say 0.6 watts, you are already giving an average
mumber,
an average of the instantaneous powers which are just V*I (both
instantaneous). If you are not doing this, but are just using rms values
for voltage and current, then you need to take into account the phase
angles, which is a method to get the same power calculations when using
sinusoidal waveforms for V and I.

>That actual amperage reading is ALREADY the RESULT of those phase angle
>considerations  that allow the available amperage to conduct. In any case
>the true power input should be identical to that spent on heating losses
>expressed as I^2R wattage expenditure. 
>
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 15:47:49 1999
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More infos on Methernitha and
their Testatika machine.

Now they even have their own WEB site !

http://members.it.tripod.de/~testatikmachine/docs.htm

Regards, Stefan.

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 21:17:44 1999
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At 10:03 PM 26/08/99 +0200, you wrote:
>





I have been reading the posting on this subject  with some interest.

I seem to recall the swiss Testatika also used   a combination of different
metal and a magnetic field.


At the time it was performed   the Linden experiement  produced 700 volts(
I think )  but no one that I know of was able to perform it again . are we
geting an idea now of how it was done  with the experiements of the TMN

More detials at my website. of the swiss testakica and the linden
experiment  at my solaris aris   and brightsparks  websites   as below for
thos that are interested.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
        Solaris searching for natures energy sources.
        Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135

 my postal address as follows

 I am also on the lookout for something new free energy on the alternative
energy scene
can you help me out?  anything you send my end up on this group of webpages
for other to share as well. 

Geoff Egel
  18 Sturt Street
   Loxton 5333
    South Australia
     Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
   Energy 21 website now resides at
http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html

     Bright Sparks website.

      http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/

NEW site  where the unzipped contents of encyclopedia of free energy are on
display.
for those that have MACS or non IBM or clone machines.
                       
                        Alternator site  at
                 http://encyclopedia.educator.webjump.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Aug 28 21:40:38 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:39:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!!
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In a message dated 8/28/99 10:40:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
laurieh@mediacity.com writes:
<snip>
> Power the inductor with AC (perhaps the frequency should be high?)
>  The frequency of the RLC tuned circuit must match the frequency of the
>  AC drive of the donut-inductor.  Align the short dipole antenna so that
>  it acts like a sort of "fractional turn" surrounding the toroidial
>  inductor.
>  Measure the energy flow going into the donut and coming out of the tuned
>  
>  circuit.  Move the dipole antenna so it is no longer within the
>  nearfield
>  region surrounding the donut-inductor.  I suspect that the output
>  wattage
>  will not match the input, and that excess energy comes out of the
>  device.
>  
>  Obviously this blatently violates Conservation of Energy.  Not only
>  that,
>  it also violates the spirit of Newton's laws themselves, because the
>  donut
>  inductor "acts upon" the tuned circuit, yet the tuned circuit cannot
>  return
>  the favor. 
While I certainly agree the toroid and its fields are not well understood, 
conventional theory does try to explain what is going on.   The inductor 
"acts upon" the tuned circuit, and the tuned circuit acts upon the toroid by 
means of the displacement current which completes the partial turn loop 
through the toroid.  This displacement current/rest of loop current generates 
a magnetic field in the toroid which opposes the toroid field (assuming the 
toroid is transferring power to the tuned circuit).
                                                                         Ken 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 02:15:55 1999
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Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!!
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On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 Keasy@aol.com wrote:

> While I certainly agree the toroid and its fields are not well understood, 
> conventional theory does try to explain what is going on.   The inductor 
> "acts upon" the tuned circuit, and the tuned circuit acts upon the toroid by 
> means of the displacement current which completes the partial turn loop 
> through the toroid.  This displacement current/rest of loop current generates 
> a magnetic field in the toroid which opposes the toroid field (assuming the 
> toroid is transferring power to the tuned circuit).

If so, then it will just be a strange sort of transformer (and the
coupling would be far better if I used a loop antenna rather than a
self-shielding toroid)   All that will have been accomplished is to allow
variable coupling to a toroidial inductor.

If I build it we shall see.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 03:17:28 1999
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It is just a heat engine !

It heats one point of the ball, which makes contact with the bearing
and so it acts like a heat engine.

This is also, why it works on AC and/or DC !
It just depends on the 2 temperatures of the steel ball
inside the bearing to produce a torque due to heat forces
onto the metal.

Probably has no big efficiency.

Regards, Stefan.



Brian Snyder schrieb:
> 
> >  Dave Dameron Writes:
> 
> > Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
> > video to
> > all at our meeting.  It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
> >  in
> > ball bearings.  power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to over
> > 1000 rpm!  DC or AC made no difference.  Direction did'nt conform to motor
> > laws.
> > Tim Raney of our group, built the toy and verified operation.  It is best
> > to run
> > this puppy under water as the rod and bearings get super hot.  The bearings
> > don't
> > last very long either.  New systems will self start.  Grungy, pitted or burned
> > bearing need a small torque to start.  This bastard is happy running in either
> > direction.  Again, AC or DC
> >
> 
> Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks like
> an interesting project.

--
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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>The good thing about this is that it's not my theory.  It's from
>Bohren, Sutton/Spaniol, and Paul/Fischer (actual genuine scientists all.)


Here are the items that I've found related to Stutton
et.al.'s "Black Hole" Antenna.  Any one know of others?:


U.S. Patent #, 5,296,866 "Active Antenna", NASA GSC-13449.
http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5296866

"A Broadband Active Antenna for ELF Magnetic Fields" by John
F. Sutton and G. Craig Spaniol" in Physics Essays March
1993, Vol 6, #1, 1993.

Abstract: "A unique broadband ULF-ELF-magnetic antenna is
described. Active circuitry is employed to introduce a
negative impedance that combines with the wire resistance,
the distributed winding capacitance, and the inductance of a
physically small search coil to produce an antenna with a
very small impedance.  The result is increased search coil
current and a enhanced dipole-plane wave field interaction,
which greatly increases the effective area of the antenna,
independent of frequency - a 'black hole' antenna."

The conclusion of the paper reads:

"We began our work with the known plane-wave electromagnetic
field-resonant dipole electromagnetic field interaction
which can explain equally well the enhanced effective areas
of photon-atom, photo-particle, and radio wave-tuned dipole
interactions.  We have extended this principle by showing
theoretically and demonstrating experimentally that active
circuitry can be used to introduce negative impedances into
an antenna circuit to reduce this same interaction over a
broad band of frequencies.  The interaction has been applied
to enhance the sensitivity of physically small untuned
search coils, used in the study of the ionosphere via the
Earth-ionosphere cavity resonances, nominally in the 1 Hz -
100 Hz range.  The active antenna frequency response has
been measured and confirmed to be free for resonances and
uniform, +/- 2dB, over a nearly four decade range of
frequencies from 3.5 Hz to 25 kHz.

They site "C.F.Bohren and D.R.Huffman, "Absorption and
Scattering of Light by Small Particles" (Wiley, 1983) saying
it show Poynting vector field diagrams of the field
interactions.  Ref #22 of the paper.

Sir A. Fleming "On Atoms of Action, Electricity, and Light"
in "The London, Edinburgh, and Bublin Phiosophical Magazine
and Journal of Science" October 1932. 
Phil.Mag.S.7.Vo..14.No.92.Oct 1932

It shows "diagram representing the nature of the
electromagnetic field near a receiving aerial in wireless
telegraphy".  Sucking like distortion field.

"Light absorption by a dipole" H. Paul and R. Fischer.
Sov.Phys.Usp.26(10), Oct. 1983.   American Institute of
Physics.

Abstract: "In semiclassical radiation theory, the electric
dipole moment induced on an atom by a strong incident field,
absorbs much more energy, per sec, than is flowing through
its geometrical cross section.  This means, the atom has the
capability to 'suck up' [that is what it says here, I'm not
make it up] electromagnetic energy from a spatial region
that is by far larger than its own volume.  An intuitive
understanding of the effect is provided by studying, in the
framework of classical electrodynamics, the energy flow in
the total field made up by superposition of the incident
wave and the field that is generated by the dipole also in
the absorptive case."

Some one wrote a note on the cover pages that reads "The
German explanation is that it 'sucks'".

Related work by Sutton et.al.  "Improved Analog Synchronous
Demodulator: Output ripple is suppressed without an output
filter" GSC-13179, NASA Tech Briefs, March 1992.  Uses dual
op-amp and 4053 CMOS switches.

"Digital Synchronous Demodulator:  The digital version
offers greater speed, precision, and reliability." 
GSC-13273.

"Broadband Active-Antenna: The effective area of a search
coil is increased."  GSC-13309.  Single op-amp, search coil
and a few passive components.  This paper appears to be the
patent application before the lawyers screwed it all up.


I don't have a copy of this one, but it seems to have great
weight in GSC-13309 "How Can a Particle Absorb More Than the
Light Incidence on It?" by Craig F. Bohren, Am. J. Phys. 51,
No. 4, P.323, April 1983.

>From GSC-13309: "With a tuned antenna there is always a
tuned circuit including the antenna, where a capacitive
reactancs is effectively cancelled by an inductive reactance
which leads, in turn, to a large circulating current in the
resonant circuit, which results in the production of a
field. This field, in turn, interacts with the incoming
field."

A lot of these are related to the Howland Voltage to Current
converter to do regeneration.

Related by but not by Sutton et.al. is "Compact Electric and
Magnetic-Field Sensor: A search coil and an electric-field
dipole are collocated" NPO-19034. by D.Winterhalter and
E.Smith.  NASA Tech Brief Vol. 18, No. 10, Item #124 October
1994.


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 11:03:57 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:30:43 -3
Subject: Re: Toroidial transformers with fractional turns?!!!
Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br
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> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 Keasy@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > While I certainly agree the toroid and its fields are not well understood,
> > conventional theory does try to explain what is going on.   The inductor "acts
> > upon" the tuned circuit, and the tuned circuit acts upon the toroid by means
> > of the displacement current which completes the partial turn loop through the
> > toroid.  This displacement current/rest of loop current generates a magnetic
> > field in the toroid which opposes the toroid field (assuming the toroid is
> > transferring power to the tuned circuit).
> 
> If so, then it will just be a strange sort of transformer (and the
> coupling would be far better if I used a loop antenna rather than a
> self-shielding toroid)   All that will have been accomplished is to allow
> variable coupling to a toroidial inductor.
> 
> If I build it we shall see.
> 
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

If you put a capacitor inside the toroid, wouldn't it be charged ?



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 12:24:09 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Hi Rick,


>Bill -
>
>Maybe oscillating magnetic fields under layers of organic/metal laminates
>would create an orgone sucking antenna (he said while contemplating the
very
>fringe, then ...stepping over the edge...).

Sounds like a good idea to me, which means you are in BIG trouble :-)


Fred+

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 13:06:57 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <ded24cd9.24faecac@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:06:04 EDT
Subject: Do most o/u devices require a catalyst?
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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If you will look at the drawing on my web site you will see a device that has 
a four spoke rotor with a permanent magnet in the center. The rotor spokes 
turn counter clockwise and one spoke at a time turns past a tapered part of 
the stator. If you make this 90 degree section an electro-magnet and turn it 
on after a spoke moves into this 90 degree section, then you have a simple 
electric motor for that 90 degrees of rotation. This is not a big deal, 
except that if you look at the rotor you will notice that when the path of 
the flux going to this tapered iron section of the rotor is no longer in the 
attraction mode because it is repelled by the electro-magnet being turned on 
in the repulsion mode, a very interesting thing happens. The flux takes a 
path of less resistance and goes to the spoke that is close to the stator 
surface. This spoke now helps rotate the rotor till it moves into the taper 
area and redirects it's flux to the next spoke in the same fashion. What you 
have here is a simple electric motor getting help from the center located 
permanent magnet. This would appear to me to be overunity. The energy input 
into the electro-magnet acts as a catalyst to release the magnetic energy in 
the permanent magnet. Take a look and see for yourself.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 
1</A>  or  http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 13:53:17 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:31:31 EDT
Subject: Site back up
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Site is back up for the time being
Thanks,
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 13:55:24 1999
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Sorry guys but my site just went down. If my kids didn't like AOL so much I 
would get another ISP.
Thanks, Butch
Calling AOL now

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 14:21:58 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: 60 hz resonant coils
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On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:46:50, Dave Dameron wrote:

> Hi Harvey and all,
> At 04:39 AM 8/28/99 PDT, Harvey wrote:
> 
> >So now when 5 ma conducts through the coil by simply plugging it into
the
> >wall these rms values are already inherent in the meter readings that
> >deliver this average amperage reading. Any arguments about whether this
> >amperage is in phase with its impressed voltage and whether it consists
of
> >reactive power that is somehow exempt from the rules and any other
construed
> >nonsense about phase angles and  mathematical true power input are
totally
> >irrevalent to the actual amperage reading conduction observed by the
meter.
> 
> You have lost me here, Harvey. RMS and phase angle are two different
concepts.
> To get a power number, say 0.6 watts, you are already giving an average
> mumber,
> an average of the instantaneous powers which are just V*I (both
> instantaneous). If you are not doing this, but are just using rms values
> for voltage and current, then you need to take into account the phase
> angles, which is a method to get the same power calculations when using
> sinusoidal waveforms for V and I.
Okay, I may be confused, let us go back to the original example of 5 ma, or
.005 A, conduction on the 20,000 ohm impedance of the 56 henry coil at 60
hz. That amount of small conduction is the result of it being predominantly
an inductive circuit and therefore the current is about 90 degrees out of
phase with the voltage. The resultant 5 ma is the rms value of amperage read
by the meter. Input rms value of 120 volts times rms value of .005 A = .6
watts In that case, I am just using rms values as you say. I could add
capacitance to the circuit and the amperage reading would increase because
of the reduced phase angle. Then I would have an increased amperage and the
power input would simply be the observed rms voltages and amperages. In
these cases my understanding is that the actual phase angle information is
not needed to find the power input, only the two rms values.
> >That actual amperage reading is ALREADY the RESULT of those phase angle
> >considerations  that allow the available amperage to conduct. In any
case
> >the true power input should be identical to that spent on heating losses
> >expressed as I^2R wattage expenditure. 
As I can see by my above quote, I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG.
The power input of .6 watts is determined by using voltage times amperge
meter readings. Yet  the I^2*R heat loss on the 1000 ohm coil is only .025
watts. I guess I was confused! But what gets confusing still is the fact
that at series resonance VI as input approaches that of  the heating loss
I^2*R. If all the energy input is going towards heat loss, where does the
energy in oscillation in elctric and magnetic fields as 1/2L^2I=1/2CV^2 come
from? Perhaps this has to do with the fact no matter what value of C
(normally.12uf) I use, the best amperage consumption I can get is around 80%
of the value that ohms law would allow. If this is considered from the
standpoint of phase angles, this amount of amperage consumption would
probably be interpreted as being many degrees away from 0, yet it seems the
closest I can get to 60 hz resonance. Someone suggested that since the
closeness of the 20,000 winds of 23 gauge wire gives the coil an internal
capacitance that takes away from its ability to resonate, and also the fact
that it is wound on a plastic core may be a factor. Placing ferrite in the
core and trying to resonate presents an even further reduction in ability to
resonate at 60 hz according to conduction at ohms law amperage.

My question is this, is the conduction at ohms law a realistic parameter for
determining whether a zero degree phase angle in series resonance exists?
Isnt it quite possible that other factors could prevent this from happening,
since the 80% amperage figure is what is obtained in this example where
X(L)=X(C).

Sincerly HDN






________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 14:32:05 1999
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From: "Peter Nielsen" <nielsenp@lis.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Bill B's secret of free energy?  YEAH?!!! well...
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:26:28 +1000
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>Then they showed me a big like 4" copper rectangle (loop) and circuits
connected to it which showed a response of 99.2khz when a human came into
the area, it was very pronounced signal as viewed on a scope

What did they say was the biological significance of the 99.2KHz?

Peter Nielsen


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 14:38:11 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas
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On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:58:05 -0400, Bob Paddock wrote:

> >The good thing about this is that it's not my theory.  It's from
> >Bohren, Sutton/Spaniol, and Paul/Fischer (actual genuine scientists
all.)
> 
> 
> Here are the items that I've found related to Stutton
> et.al.'s "Black Hole" Antenna.  Any one know of others?:
> 
> 
> U.S. Patent #, 5,296,866 "Active Antenna", NASA GSC-13449.
> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5296866
Great patent Bob! some exerpts;
The antennas commonly employed for sensing ELF magnetic fields consists of
search coils of several thousand turns of copper wire wound around high
permeability, low loss cores, such as ferrite rods. To enhance the
performance of such a search coil antenna, it is desirable to effectively
reduce the wire resistance and inductive reactance of the coil, both of
which impede the signal generated current flow in the coil.

If such a coil were connected in series with a negative circuit
impedance,ie, an appropriate, in terms of magnitude,negative resistance in
series with an appropriate, in terms of magnitude, negative inductive
reactance, the total combined impedance of the coil and the negative
impedance circuit could be made as small as desired. If the total combined
impedance is made positive, but very small, a very sensitive search coil
system would result.

The inventor describes his invention as an improvement in active antennas by
including a negative impedance
developed by providing positive feedback from a voltage controlled current
source to the antenna. I found this 
patent no 5,296,866  Active Antenna to have a very informative Prior State
of the Art section which explains why active antennas fell into historical
disuse This is on pg 4 of the patent URL.

> "A Broadband Active Antenna for ELF Magnetic Fields" by John
> F. Sutton and G. Craig Spaniol" in Physics Essays March
> 1993, Vol 6, #1, 1993.
> 
> Abstract: "A unique broadband ULF-ELF-magnetic antenna is
> described. Active circuitry is employed to introduce a
> negative impedance that combines with the wire resistance,
> the distributed winding capacitance, and the inductance of a
> physically small search coil to produce an antenna with a
> very small impedance.  The result is increased search coil
> current and a enhanced dipole-plane wave field interaction,
> which greatly increases the effective area of the antenna,
> independent of frequency - a 'black hole' antenna."
> 
> The conclusion of the paper reads:
> 
> "We began our work with the known plane-wave electromagnetic
> field-resonant dipole electromagnetic field interaction
> which can explain equally well the enhanced effective areas
> of photon-atom, photo-particle, and radio wave-tuned dipole
> interactions.  We have extended this principle by showing
> theoretically and demonstrating experimentally that active
> circuitry can be used to introduce negative impedances into
> an antenna circuit to reduce this same interaction over a
> broad band of frequencies.  The interaction has been applied
> to enhance the sensitivity of physically small untuned
> search coils, used in the study of the ionosphere via the
> Earth-ionosphere cavity resonances, nominally in the 1 Hz -
> 100 Hz range.  The active antenna frequency response has
> been measured and confirmed to be free for resonances and
> uniform, +/- 2dB, over a nearly four decade range of
> frequencies from 3.5 Hz to 25 kHz.
> 
This is good info, you must have an impressive research library, I did not
see it on the patent search you posted. The previous patent referenced to in
the patent shows an antenna within an antenna as an ealier version of this
active antenna, also worth a view, or is this the black hole antenna you
were referring to? HDN




________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 17:33:41 1999
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From: Jim Richardson <warlock@eskimo.com>
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On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Peter Fred wrote:
> >%_
> David
> 
> I took a flat sheet of copper and illuminated it or heated it from above at about 9 cm with 2250 watts and observed its weight drop.  It dropped a little then went back to it original weight.  Then I bent the sheet so it formed a half cylinder.  When I 






illuminated it with 2250 watts with hot plate heating elements placed at the center of half cylinder, its weight dropped a little better than noise or 0.004 N or 0.054 % of the sheet's total weight.  
> 
> The other day I got much more clearer results with a hemisphere.  When I illuminated a colander with a blackened aluminum sheet on the inside with 2250 watts for 330 seconds, I got a 0.026 N drop or a weight loss of 1.96 %.  Then I illuminated a circula






r aluminum sheet with the same area with 2250 watts for 350 seconds with the heating elements about 1/2 inch from the circular sheet. I got a 0.648 % drop in weight or a 0.010 N drop.  The aluminum sheet was a little bit thicker than the aluminum of the c






olander.  Its initial weight or downward force was 1.5 N and the colander's initial downward force was 1.3 N.  
> 
> 
> Also I found another source where it looks at though a UFO is kicking out heat from its spherical shaped bottom.
> In David Darlington's Area 51 p.73 he quotes Bob Lazar saying after he saw a "UFO" perform at Area 51 
> 
> "It was sitting on the ground...The disc sat on the ground for a period of time, then the bottom of it glowed blue and it began to hiss, like high voltage does on a round sphere.  It's my impression that they're round and have no sharp edges is to conta






in the voltage....It lifted off the ground, quietly except for that little hiss in the  background, and stopped as soon as it reached about twenty or thirty feet.  It shifted to the left, shifted over to the right, and sat back down.  I mean it doesn't so






und like much, but it was incredibly impressive, just--mind-boggling.  It's just magic!" 
> 
> 
> Peter Fred
> 
> 
> http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/  
> 
>


couldn't this simply be due to heat expansion of the metal? It's on the right
order of magnitude for volume increase. Try it in a vacuum and see if it still
works, if not, it's simple displacement changes due to increase in volume. 

--
Jim Richardson
	Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
	Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 18:22:50 1999
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http://www.laserway.com/

Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?

The images seem to have been computer altered. Too bad, because this would be

a real dream came true.

I want antigravity and I want it now!!!



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 19:39:54 1999
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Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:46:05 -0400
From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN)
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Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I was not aware until tonight that Erwin Saxl had a patent on his
> electrified pendulum. This is US3357253, "Device And Method For
> Measuring Gravitational And Other Forces".  It is not available on the
> IBM patent server. It includes test results.
> 
> This has obvious relevance to electrogravity and torsion research and
> should be in the hands of these researchers.  Accordingly, "for a
> limited time only" as the ads say :-) I will mail the pdf file to
> those who want it. I'll wait until next weekend to send the file to
> avoid duplication of effort. It will probably be on a site later but
> this format is handy. Please contact me this week if you want it.
> 
> Fred

  I would like a copy of the file.
  Thanks,
  Ron

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 21:19:44 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: 60 hz resonant coils/180 phasing.
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Frequently Presumed Questions;
Why is it advantageous to make two resonant systems in opposite polarity as
a 180 phasing?
Answer:
Because then the magnetic fields from each phase can be interacted together
in space at the polar area of both coil systems placed together face to
face. As such each inductive reactance can  either be increased  or
decreased  according to their mutual inductance dictated by polarity
choice.

Couldnt this be done with two identical phases of resonance in mutual
inductance?
Answer: 
Yes this should be possible, but a connecting wire beween their midpoints
should not convey a current,
as is the case when each of these phases are 180.

How are two series resonant phases made at 180 degrees?
Ans/
Each phase consists of L and C in series. By reversing the connections to
the input: L and C can be plugged in backwards. Each of these conducting in
parallel can run at the same time, in which case twice the amperage is
consumed, exactly similar to the case of two identical phases in parallel.

What is meant by dictating mutual inductance by polarity choice?
Ans/:
The coils on each branch can be combined in spatial interaction so that the
inductive reactance of both coils becomes either greater or lesser than when
each alone acted in isolated space to each other. This is due to whether the
two coils produce two magnetic fields in magnetic agreement, or whether they
produce magnetic opposition by the polarity arrangement made when those
coils are placed face to face at their poles.  

Is one arrangement better than the other?
Ans/:
I am working under the  common sense presumption that when the fields work
in unison, or when one pole produces a N and the the other interacting coil
produces an S interacting in polar space between the  coils to produce a
higher inductive reactance for both coils reactance, the value of C that  is
used in the quantity as 1/2CV(squared) to equal the quantity 1/2LI(squared)
is correspondingly reduced by the fact that L is increased by mutual
inductance and C is reduced so that both 1/2LI^2=1/2CV^2. This in turn means
that the quantity V as expressed as the voltage in the electric field is
increased by decreasing the amount of capacitance in resonance. The net
effect of this means that a higher voltage potential then becomes present
between the unobvoius midpoints by placing the coils in a mutual inductance
in magnetic agreement, and also recalculating the C value to be used. It
should also be noted in common sense that just because the phasings are 180
does not automatically imply the two fields are in opposition, when one coil
can simply turned around in space to provide magnetic agreement.
    In the reverse scenario the amount of capacitance needed to resonate
could be increased by placing two resonators back to back as Bill Wysock may
have done in his model 12 tesla coil, although I am not clear on this,
because he uses a single capacity, and not two as I have outlined, and
because I have not studied it in further detail to comment. In the case of
primaries conducting massive amperages, it may be advantageous to make C a
large quantity with respect to the low L in this application. Thus the best
application in a half wave resonator or 180 phased tesla coil might be
opposite to that of a large inductor, which is the example I am speaking of.
So in the large inductance case I think it is better if the fields are in
unison and not opposition.

If no over-unity effects can be shown, what is the use of this 180 phasing?
Ans/:
The questions about whether over unity is being exhibited are only
considered in the context of input power vs output power of the load placed
at that position between those 180 series resonant phases. In some cases
where a high frequency interaction takes place AND when the value of V
becomes exraordinarily large, over unity may be in evidence in the actual
arcing that occurs. However some of these experiments seem hard to
reproduce, and when they do occur it may damage the inputing transformer and
recording measuring instruments because of a sort of transient current
backlash.
Sincerely looking forward to the future: HDN




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 21:47:02 1999
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Hi Harvey and all,
At 02:21 PM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:

>Okay, I may be confused, let us go back to the original example of 5 ma, or
>.005 A, conduction on the 20,000 ohm impedance of the 56 henry coil at 60
>hz. That amount of small conduction is the result of it being predominantly
>an inductive circuit and therefore the current is about 90 degrees out of
>phase with the voltage. The resultant 5 ma is the rms value of amperage read
>by the meter. Input rms value of 120 volts times rms value of .005 A = .6
>watts In that case, I am just using rms values as you say. I could add
>capacitance to the circuit and the amperage reading would increase because
>of the reduced phase angle. Then I would have an increased amperage and the
>power input would simply be the observed rms voltages and amperages. In
>these cases my understanding is that the actual phase angle information is
>not needed to find the power input, only the two rms values.

No, average power = rms Voltage*rms Current*cos(phase angle). Remember for
120 Volts rms, the peak = 170 Volts approx. The rms value of a wave form =
value of DC that produces the same power (phase angle=0).

>But what gets confusing still is the fact
>that at series resonance VI as input approaches that of  the heating loss
>I^2*R. If all the energy input is going towards heat loss, where does the
>energy in oscillation in elctric and magnetic fields as 1/2L^2I=1/2CV^2 come
>from? 

In the sine wave, steady state, any losses in the electric & magnetic field
are made up by power into an effective resistance. It gets there initially
by a transient time period. For example in the steady state, the current
passes through zero. Here the voltage across the inductor is max. The
capacitor has a high value also. V(inductor)+V(capacitor)+V(r)= V(input)
If the circuit is switched on when the input voltage =0, the capacitor,
inductor voltages are both zero, so this isn't the same as the "steady
state". The transient solution for a LCR circuit can be complicated, but
you can get a picture of what's going on by a simpler LR series circuit and
a DC voltage- seeing where the energy goes.

Perhaps this has to do with the fact no matter what value of C
>(normally.12uf) I use, the best amperage consumption I can get is around 80%
>of the value that ohms law would allow. If this is considered from the
>standpoint of phase angles, this amount of amperage consumption would
>probably be interpreted as being many degrees away from 0, yet it seems the
>closest I can get to 60 hz resonance. Someone suggested that since the
>closeness of the 20,000 winds of 23 gauge wire gives the coil an internal
>capacitance that takes away from its ability to resonate, and also the fact
>that it is wound on a plastic core may be a factor. 

The internal capacitance would be a parallel reactance, and change the
effective inductive reactance.  It would still be X(L), though if operated
below the L, internal C resonant frequency, but smaller in value. I assume
your resonance is experimental as the simple formulas don't take into
effect the internal capacitance, etc and other variables you have mentioned.

>My question is this, is the conduction at ohms law a realistic parameter for
>determining whether a zero degree phase angle in series resonance exists?
>Isnt it quite possible that other factors could prevent this from happening,
>since the 80% amperage figure is what is obtained in this example where
>X(L)=X(C).
>
How did you determine that X(L)=X(C), max current?
Anything disturbing the magnetic field would vary the "Q" and thus the
effective series R, for example.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 22:03:37 1999
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Hi Harvey,

the only thing you could try is use the
magnetic fields in the resonance state
at 60 Hz to induce power in a secondary coil
and use this output power from the secondary.

But normally this will just change the phase angle
on the primary side and additional power will
be drawn...

But if you try a clever recitifier circuit
with the right "timing", this might work...
and does not change the phase angle.
Maybe you can then draw secondory output power
without increasing the phase angle...

Regards, Stefan.


> > You have lost me here, Harvey. RMS and phase angle are two different
> concepts.
> > To get a power number, say 0.6 watts, you are already giving an average
> > mumber,
> > an average of the instantaneous powers which are just V*I (both
> > instantaneous). If you are not doing this, but are just using rms values
> > for voltage and current, then you need to take into account the phase
> > angles, which is a method to get the same power calculations when using
> > sinusoidal waveforms for V and I.
> Okay, I may be confused, let us go back to the original example of 5 ma, or
> .005 A, conduction on the 20,000 ohm impedance of the 56 henry coil at 60
> hz. That amount of small conduction is the result of it being predominantly
> an inductive circuit and therefore the current is about 90 degrees out of
> phase with the voltage. The resultant 5 ma is the rms value of amperage read
> by the meter. Input rms value of 120 volts times rms value of .005 A = .6
> watts In that case, I am just using rms values as you say. I could add
> capacitance to the circuit and the amperage reading would increase because
> of the reduced phase angle. Then I would have an increased amperage and the
> power input would simply be the observed rms voltages and amperages. In
> these cases my understanding is that the actual phase angle information is
> not needed to find the power input, only the two rms values.
> > >That actual amperage reading is ALREADY the RESULT of those phase angle
> > >considerations  that allow the available amperage to conduct. In any
> case
> > >the true power input should be identical to that spent on heating losses
> > >expressed as I^2R wattage expenditure.
> As I can see by my above quote, I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG.
> The power input of .6 watts is determined by using voltage times amperge
> meter readings. Yet  the I^2*R heat loss on the 1000 ohm coil is only .025
> watts. I guess I was confused! But what gets confusing still is the fact
> that at series resonance VI as input approaches that of  the heating loss
> I^2*R. If all the energy input is going towards heat loss, where does the
> energy in oscillation in elctric and magnetic fields as 1/2L^2I=1/2CV^2 come
> from? Perhaps this has to do with the fact no matter what value of C
> (normally.12uf) I use, the best amperage consumption I can get is around 80%
> of the value that ohms law would allow. If this is considered from the
> standpoint of phase angles, this amount of amperage consumption would
> probably be interpreted as being many degrees away from 0, yet it seems the
> closest I can get to 60 hz resonance. Someone suggested that since the
> closeness of the 20,000 winds of 23 gauge wire gives the coil an internal
> capacitance that takes away from its ability to resonate, and also the fact
> that it is wound on a plastic core may be a factor. Placing ferrite in the
> core and trying to resonate presents an even further reduction in ability to
> resonate at 60 hz according to conduction at ohms law amperage.
> 
> My question is this, is the conduction at ohms law a realistic parameter for
> determining whether a zero degree phase angle in series resonance exists?
> Isnt it quite possible that other factors could prevent this from happening,
> since the 80% amperage figure is what is obtained in this example where
> X(L)=X(C).
> 
> Sincerly HDN
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
> Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 22:05:58 1999
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From: "Axehandler" <lpatterson@landoflakes.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Antigravity
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:06:53 -0500
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The only 2 good pictures that have been touched.... in the main picture you
can plainly see the helocopter blade as a shadow on the ground and some
fussing in the sky.....  The other has the X51 Cockeye'd on the
helocopter... and it's out of place from before! =)

Total Hoax

Axe

-----Original Message-----
From: patrick tremblay <energeon@microtec.net>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, August 29, 1999 8:23 PM
Subject: Antigravity


>http://www.laserway.com/
>
>Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?
>
>The images seem to have been computer altered. Too bad, because this would
be
>
>a real dream came true.
>
>I want antigravity and I want it now!!!
>
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 22:31:20 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <leoguitar@vossnet.de>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Marinov Motor ?? Ball bearing motor Just a heat engine !
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:25:42 -0700
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Hi Stefan and all,


>It is just a heat engine !

I finally found the article I was looking for about this thing, it is "The
Ball Bearing As A Motor", Am J. Phys. 46(12) Dec. 1978.  The author argues
that this ball motor is due to a force between a magnetic field oriented
around the axis of rotation, and the current through the ball between the
races.
The axial field only exists in cases where the bearing is already rolling,
or when there is remanent magnetism in the ball. Since this remanence can be
in either direction the ball can rotate in either direction.
He gives test results to support his thesis.  I can't follow his math
completely so I am not sure how well it all holds up, but it appears that it
is electromagnetic and not thermal.
>
>It heats one point of the ball, which makes contact with the bearing
>and so it acts like a heat engine.>

>Probably has no big efficiency.

Right, the author states about 1 %.

It might be good to point out again that this is no way similar to the
Marinov motor.

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 22:45:25 1999
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From: DEADWATE@aol.com
Message-ID: <69468c7.24fb7436@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:44:22 EDT
Subject: Copy of patent
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If I am not too late, I too would like a copy of E. Saxl's patent.
deadwate@aol.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 23:09:53 1999
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Hi All,

Adolf Schneider from NetJournal, CH sent me these infos:

Thermoelectric Energy Conversion by the action of a heat flow
On pp. 67-69 of No. 10 of 'Infinite Energy' (September-October, 1996)
there
is an article by Michael C. Nicolaou which draws attention to the
research
discovery of Dr. Leonid N. Grigorov, a polymer physicist in Moscow. It
concerns the high electrical conductivity of oxidized polypropylene and
its
prospective use in thermoelectric devices.
This arises the interest of Dr. Harold Aspden owing to his involvement
in an
invention in which a polymer film is used as a dielectric in a parallel
plate capacitor subjected to a thermal gradient. Heat input generates
current oscillations through the capacitor. Conversely, input of current
oscillations causes the device to act as a very efficient heat pump,
which
means that the device operates as a refrigeration unit. The power rating
of
such a device for a given weight can be increased enormously if that
polymer
dielectric film is a good electrical conductor in a direction lateral to
its
plane. Dr. Aspden therefore see great promise in the Grigorov discovery.

Dr. Harold Aspden also notes:
I am now fairly confident in my belief that, as these warm
superconductor
compositions (YBCO superconductors) cool during their process of
manufacture, there will be cold spots local to molecular groupings which
suit the supergraviton resonance. This is because the phenomenon
involves
transfer of heat into electrical energy fed to sustain electron motion.
Obviously if we are dealing here, not with a zero resistivity but rather
with a negative resistance property owing to that regenerative effect,
then
there will be local current oscillations in the material. These will be
self-induced microscopic eddy-currents in the material, which transfer
that
heat to the regions not conducive to resonance. That means that there
could
be a self-tuning element to the process and the proposition that the
YBCO-7
oxygen molecules aggregate with their 10 oxygen counterparts in the
ratio of
1:2 to give the overall composition with a mean of 9 oxygen atoms then
makes
good sense.
At least, that is the way I see it, and I do believe that the New Energy
publications such as 'Infinite Energy' are wise to report on progress in
the
warm superconductor field, simply because the phenomenon breaks the laws
of
physics by regenerating electricity from heat and doing that with a 100%
conversion efficiency.
I may also note that, in analyzing data from the thermoelectric energy
conversion devices involved in my research with Scott Strachan, I could
only
explain the enormous thermoelectric EMF we were getting from
nickel-aluminium junctions in terms of the problem we had avoided by not
allowing cold spots to develop in filamentary current flow paths through
the
cooled Peltier junctions. That is the subject of Energy Science Report
No. 2
in the series I publish and the device first tested is described in U.S.
Patent No. 5,288,336. As an side comment on this, I will here draw
attention
to the fact that bismuth telluride increases in resistivity with
temperature
decrease. This is contrary to the situation in base metals. It means
that
Peltier cooling prevents cold spots from forming in thermocouples using
that
material and so prevents the setting up filamentary paths through points
in
junctions which would cool rapidly to temperatures too close to the
lower
heat sink temperature. In base metal thermocouples such cold spot
cooling
chokes the thermoelectric action, but we avoided that in our research by
using thin Ni-Al films on a polymer substrate and interrupting the
current
flow at a frequency measured in kHz. You can view such a normal base
metal
thermoelectric device as inherently monostable and in a virtually
incapacitated state. In contrast, by the technique Strachan and I
adopted
using Ni-Al thermo junctions we contrived to make our devices bistable
in
the conductivity sense. However, after a while even our devices tended
to
become monostable again in a magnetic sense and it is only now, after
waking
up to this situation, that steps can be taken to remedy that so that
this
new technology can move ahead.
And further:
Note that the oxidized polypropylene polymer discovered by Dr. Grigorov
is
the exact opposite. It is a thermal insulator with superconductive
filamentary paths through the layer of film. That is why it offers such
promise in a Strachan-Aspden thermoelectric power converter. It could
well
prove to be the refrigeration technology of the future, besides serving
as a
solid-state electric power generator. For details see my Energy Science
Report No. 3.
For reference see: http://www.energyscience.co.uk/notes/rn9702.htm

--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Aug 29 23:17:14 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Japanese solid state Fe patents
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:11:31 -0700
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Hi Folks,

I would be interested in people's opinions on these two very similar
Japanese solid state free energy devices, specifically why they WOULDN'T
work...

Some may recognize the resemblance to the De Rivas and Richardson flux
switching patents. Mr. Bearden has also referred to this principle in terms
of the Radus magnetic boot patent, and Butch Lafonte has also talked about
something like the motor version of the same.

http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/JP09115748A_

http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/JP09035958A_

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 00:03:54 1999
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Message-ID: <37CA2CD8.85D2C13A@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:03:52 +1200
From: John Berry <antigrav@ihug.co.nz>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Marinov Motor ?? Ball bearing motor Just a heat engine !
References: <3.0.6.16.19990818093412.2397f904@earthlink.net> <37BB149A.D4C940B0@technologist.com> <37C908AE.A16D92A@harti.com>
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Then why when I used a paramagnetic axle (AL) did it not work if it's just heat?
I do not agree with that theory at all.


John Berry

Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> It is just a heat engine !
>
> It heats one point of the ball, which makes contact with the bearing
> and so it acts like a heat engine.
>
> This is also, why it works on AC and/or DC !
> It just depends on the 2 temperatures of the steel ball
> inside the bearing to produce a torque due to heat forces
> onto the metal.
>
> Probably has no big efficiency.
>
> Regards, Stefan.
>
> Brian Snyder schrieb:
> >
> > >  Dave Dameron Writes:
> >
> > > Recently I saw a form of marinov motor which intrigued me and showed the
> > > video to
> > > all at our meeting.  It was a stainless steel rod 1/4" in diameter 14" long
> > >  in
> > > ball bearings.  power was applied to the bearings and the rod spun up to over
> > > 1000 rpm!  DC or AC made no difference.  Direction did'nt conform to motor
> > > laws.
> > > Tim Raney of our group, built the toy and verified operation.  It is best
> > > to run
> > > this puppy under water as the rod and bearings get super hot.  The bearings
> > > don't
> > > last very long either.  New systems will self start.  Grungy, pitted or burned
> > > bearing need a small torque to start.  This bastard is happy running in either
> > > direction.  Again, AC or DC
> > >
> >
> > Do you have any info or plans so we can make this "toy"?? Looks like
> > an interesting project.
>
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 00:25:56 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <3e5a8b3a.24fb8bcb@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:24:59 EDT
Subject: PFT v3.0, towards a new generation of spacecrafts
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Dear All,

I have added a new update in my web site :

The PFT v3.0 is a working mock-up of a new generation of spacecrafts which 
uses the motion of an asymmetrical Poynting Flow for generating a thrust. The 
PFT v3.0 uses the main principle of the PFT propulsion for generating a 
horizontal thrust. The purpose of this mock-up is to study the integration of 
a PFT thruster in the hull for building a new generation of spacecraft. The 
vertical thruster has not been yet implemented for separating the effects. 
The next version of the PFT will uses a Dynamic Vector Potential with a 
special shaped magnetic field for generating the main vertical thrust.

All pictures diagram and video can be found at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/pft03.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 02:52:59 1999
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From: Mathias Bage <mathias@Stacken.kth.se>
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On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, patrick tremblay wrote:

> http://www.laserway.com/
> 
> Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?

In the picture http://www.laserway.com/images/X51.jpg
a shadow from an ordinary helicopter rotor can be seen.

/Mathias


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 06:47:23 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Copy of patent
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:03:49 -0400
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>If I am not too late, I too would like a copy of E. Saxl's patent.
>deadwate@aol.com

You can get it at http://www.oilcity.org/research/  it is a
1.8M .PDF file.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 09:14:16 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:12:41 EDT
Subject: Re: 60 hz resonant coils
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In a message dated 8/29/99 2:22:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
tesla4@excite.com writes:

> 
>  My question is this, is the conduction at ohms law a realistic parameter 
for
>  determining whether a zero degree phase angle in series resonance exists?
>  Isnt it quite possible that other factors could prevent this from 
happening,
>  since the 80% amperage figure is what is obtained in this example where
>  X(L)=X(C).
I would think that maximum current should be pretty close to a zero degree 
phase angle, but not exact since the components aren't ideal.  If you really 
want to look at the phase, though, you could insert a small series resistor 
and look at the input voltage and also the voltage across the resistor with a 
two channel oscilloscope.   That way you see the voltage and current in its 
actual phase relationship.
                                                                              
                      Ken
 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 10:25:48 1999
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From: "atg0317" <atg0317@wt.net>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Temp TMB Site
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:26:10 -0500
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I have placed the TMB files on a temporary site until our new Domain and
server are completed, they can be found at;

http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/index.htm


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 11:02:58 1999
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From: MATTIARO@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:58:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Antigravity
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In a message dated 8/30/1999 2:59:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mathias@Stacken.kth.se writes:

<< 
 On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, patrick tremblay wrote:
 
 > http://www.laserway.com/
 > 
 > Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?
 
 In the picture http://www.laserway.com/images/X51.jpg
 a shadow from an ordinary helicopter rotor can be seen.
 
 /Mathias >>

   On the helicopter, I saw the exhaust coming from the rear of the fuselage. 
 I was looking and really concentraiting on the tail boom.  They have done a 
great job of deleting the tail rotor from the boom.  I can't see any false 
lines or missing lines there.
   But one thing does intrigue me.  IF the tail is rotorless, where are the 
exhaust louvers that are needed to rotate the copter in azmuth plane?
   I will be double check on the shadow of the rotor.  Interesting.  I missed 
that!!  

   Drats, that proves that I'm a human after all :-)

   Matti

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 11:27:07 1999
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:20:15 -0400
From: Jim Springer <jims@mpinet.net>
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Looks to me like the light is directly overhead. That shadow on the
ground must be from something else because it doesn't look like it's in
the right spot for the main rotor. Wonder why they went through all the
trouble to touch up where the rotors were and then have the crummy
pasted lettering on the body!
(That isn't even in the same place from one picture to the next !)

The device on top where the rotor should be doesn't even look the same
from picture to picture.

How bout that FLAVIO guy and Captain GLORY!!!!

--
"Education is what is left when
 you have forgotten everything
 you learned in school."
 Albert Einstein, 1936


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 11:33:07 1999
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From: "Joe May" <nancy28@bellsouth.net>
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Please remove me from your list. nancy28@bellsouth.net

-----Original Message-----
From: MATTIARO@aol.com <MATTIARO@aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Antigravity


>In a message dated 8/30/1999 2:59:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>mathias@Stacken.kth.se writes:
>
><<
> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, patrick tremblay wrote:
>
> > http://www.laserway.com/
> >
> > Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?
>
> In the picture http://www.laserway.com/images/X51.jpg
> a shadow from an ordinary helicopter rotor can be seen.
>
> /Mathias >>
>
>   On the helicopter, I saw the exhaust coming from the rear of the
fuselage.
> I was looking and really concentraiting on the tail boom.  They have done
a
>great job of deleting the tail rotor from the boom.  I can't see any false
>lines or missing lines there.
>   But one thing does intrigue me.  IF the tail is rotorless, where are the
>exhaust louvers that are needed to rotate the copter in azmuth plane?
>   I will be double check on the shadow of the rotor.  Interesting.  I
missed
>that!!
>
>   Drats, that proves that I'm a human after all :-)
>
>   Matti
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 12:33:18 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <300fb0d1.24fc363c@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:32:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Flat sheet vs semicylindrical configuration
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In a message dated 8/29/99 5:34:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
warlock@eskimo.com writes:

> couldn't this simply be due to heat expansion of the metal? It's on the 
right
>  order of magnitude for volume increase. Try it in a vacuum and see if it 
> still
>  works, if not, it's simple displacement changes due to increase in volume. 

Yes, there are at least two factors involved: the metal expansion and 
convection currents.  I did a similiar experiment with aluminum, heating it 
with current through an attached resistor.  It always lost  weight until  I 
put it in a sealed (but not vacuum)  jar.  All weight loss with heat 
disappeared.
                                                                      Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 12:57:15 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:53:40 EDT
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In a message dated 8/30/99 2:59:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mathias@Stacken.kth.se writes:

> > 
>  > Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?
>  
>  In the picture http://www.laserway.com/images/X51.jpg
>  a shadow from an ordinary helicopter rotor can be seen.
>  
And the little saucer thing --- oops, propulsion pod -- near the tail (if 
that is what it is) does not cast a shadow.  Whoever posted this seems to be 
a *little* better at computer graphics than antigravity.
                                                                         Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 12:57:15 1999
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For those interested in Erwin Saxl:

Dr. Saxl left all of his notes and equipment to the Florida Institute of
Technology, in Melbourne, Florida (on the Space Coast), and a working
pendulum exists there today.    It has been looked at over the years by
various professors and grad students, but not with the rigor and vigor that
it deserves.    If anyone is truly interested in studying Saxl's approach to
electrogravitation, I can provide information about admission to Florida
Tech, its undergrad and graduate programs in physics/space sciences, and
life in east Central Florida.

David L. Wenbert

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 14:13:20 1999
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Subject: Re: Antigravity
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     If you check the angle from the nose to the shadow of the nose on the
ground, it is the same as the angle from the point where the rotor should be
to the rotor shadow on the ground.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 14:21:39 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:18:15 EDT
Subject: Magnets: does this seem right????
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Hello all,
    Excuse this for being "word heavy" but without a picture it takes a few 
words to describe everything.
     Suppose you have two identical disk magnets and place one flat on a 
table near the edge.  Suppose its B field on its top surface is straight up.  
Now you hold the other magnet a few inches from the first oriented with its 
flat surface vertical (90 degrees from the first), the center of its circular 
area exactly level with the center of mass of the first magnet, and pointing 
so its B field passes straight through the center of the first magnet and is 
directed from the second magnet toward the first.

     Now, does the magnet laying on the table *weigh* more, less or the same, 
compared to when there was no second magnet?  
 
     If you treat the magnet on the table as a huge number of magnetic 
dipoles so the B field from the second magnet exerts a huge number or torques 
on the first, you are hard pressed to explain an answer other than zero.  Or 
at least I am.  (Of course the attraction between the magnets in the 
horizontal plane is another issue -- you would not expect any attraction or 
repulsion if the magnets are perpendicular, and there is none)   
     Nevertheless, the answer is clearly LESS  (by experiment).   As you 
bring the second magnet closer the first magnet weighs less and less -- I 
certainly assume the second one weighs more.   Does anyone think this sounds 
right and can explain it --or maybe we can use it for something?

                                                                              
   Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 15:04:50 1999
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> In a message dated 8/30/1999 2:59:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> mathias@Stacken.kth.se writes:
>
> <<
>  On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, patrick tremblay wrote:
>
>  > http://www.laserway.com/
>  >
>  > Guys, what do you think of this site ? Hoax ?

 BOO! HISS!

 I think there's a reason that this website-owner isn't known for his stunning
special effects,
or his HUGO-award winning Science Fiction...no offense to anyone of course..

 OF COURSE IT'S A HOAX! Consider the source...

 Cheers!

     Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 16:17:54 1999
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From: "Trev" <trevcox@tinet.ie>
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Subject: Re: Magnets: does this seem right????
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:06:29 +0100
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Hi Ken,
I just ran to the shed and tried it out and your right it weighs less but
there did seem to be a slight attraction, I'll ponder this tonight and see
if I can come up with a way of using it.
Thanks,
Trev.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Keasy@aol.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 10:18 PM
Subject: Magnets: does this seem right????


> Hello all,
>     Excuse this for being "word heavy" but without a picture it takes a
few
> words to describe everything.
>      Suppose you have two identical disk magnets and place one flat on a
> table near the edge.  Suppose its B field on its top surface is straight
up.
> Now you hold the other magnet a few inches from the first oriented with
its
> flat surface vertical (90 degrees from the first), the center of its
circular
> area exactly level with the center of mass of the first magnet, and
pointing
> so its B field passes straight through the center of the first magnet and
is
> directed from the second magnet toward the first.
>
>      Now, does the magnet laying on the table *weigh* more, less or the
same,
> compared to when there was no second magnet?
>
>      If you treat the magnet on the table as a huge number of magnetic
> dipoles so the B field from the second magnet exerts a huge number or
torques
> on the first, you are hard pressed to explain an answer other than zero.
Or
> at least I am.  (Of course the attraction between the magnets in the
> horizontal plane is another issue -- you would not expect any attraction
or
> repulsion if the magnets are perpendicular, and there is none)
>      Nevertheless, the answer is clearly LESS  (by experiment).   As you
> bring the second magnet closer the first magnet weighs less and less -- I
> certainly assume the second one weighs more.   Does anyone think this
sounds
> right and can explain it --or maybe we can use it for something?
>
 Ken






From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 17:52:47 1999
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>  > http://www.laserway.com/


>    I will be double check on the shadow of the rotor.  Interesting.  I 
>missed
>that!!
>
>    Drats, that proves that I'm a human after all :-)
>
>    Matti
>
not only that but didn't you see the pice of rotor blade still in the 
tree???
T...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 20:00:17 1999
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Subject: Re: Magnets: does this seem right????
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Hi Ken and all,
At 05:18 PM 8/30/99 EDT, you wrote:

>     Now, does the magnet laying on the table *weigh* more, less or the
same, 
>compared to when there was no second magnet?  

If I understand it right, I think it could weigh either more or less, (In
addition to the torque) and is due to the finite height of magnet #2. For
example:
NS   
NS    SSSS
NS    NNNN
NS
#2     #1
In this case magnet #1 will have a vert. force  to move the SSSS face to
the ~top  of #2. (decreased weight). If the poles of #1 or #2 were
reversed, the movement will be toward the bottom (inc. weight). Sitting on
a surface, the positions would already be about there, so the decreased
cases weight would be more obvious. Both cases can be seen equally with
horiz. movements (magnet #2 below magnet #1).
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Aug 30 20:07:15 1999
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In a message dated 8/30/99 4:21:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, trevcox@tinet.ie 
writes:

>  just ran to the shed and tried it out and your right it weighs less but
>  there did seem to be a slight attraction, I'll ponder this tonight and see
>  if I can come up with a way of using it.
>  Thanks,
>  Trev.
   I found that the attraction or repulsion along the line (imaginary) 
joining the magnets is very sensitive to angular position.  Moving just a 
degree or two from the perpendicular orientation of the two magnets changed 
from attraction to repulsion.
                                                                      Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 31 04:42:16 1999
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Message-ID: <37CBBEFC.B6C86151@verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:39:40 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
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Hi all,


Is the pure Earth magnetism alone cause the anisotropy on TMB? Is is also very interesting to investigate the exact cause of this anisotropy. May this phenomenon lead to discover an unknown nature of the Earth magnetic field or some unknown interference w






ithin. 

As the apparatus is very versatile and gives very good sensitivity to Earth magnetic field, this phenomenon may be already used by living organism like migrating birds as a compass. This may solve an other great mystery.


Regards,

hamdi ucar

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Aug 31 20:59:15 1999
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Hi Dave, Bill and all,

But think for a moment.  In donut-inductors, the magnetic
>>field-lines
>>from each turn of wire extend over to the area enclosed by the next turn
>>
>>of wire, and as a result the magnetic field connects in a circle, and no
>>
>>field extends past the surface of the donut.   Yet the secondary coil is
>>
>>entirely *outside* the donut, and therefor the magnetic flux never
>>touches
>>it.  The question arises: how does the magnetic field inside the donut-
>>inductor create a current in the secondary coil if no magnetic flux
>>touches
>>the secondary coil?  Electronics students always ask this question.
>
>Yes one can shield them magnetically as well. This leads me to believe the
>vector potential A is involved, like in the Aharonov-Bohm effect. I posted
>some tests about a year ago. For the electrical shielding I used coax.
cable.

Yes that's right, this is explained by the use of the magnetic vector
potential A. Ther is an article in Am. J. Phys. someplace about the A-B
effect in transformers, I'll try to dig it up. This is considered
conventional physics (whatever that means) at this point.

>
>Yes the Faraday law says the induced voltage is from the flux linkage- it
>says "what" will be observed but not "how".

The faraday law is not universally valid anyway. The motional law E = BXV
and the faraday law are not euqivalents, as Moon and Spencer showed many
years ago.  The motional law is based on movement of charge, whereas the
flux linkage law is based on acceleration of charge, so they are
fundamentally different.  You can only know the total induction in a circuit
by adding both together.

Motional induction is very strange since it can be generated by "virtual"
motion of field rather than real motion.  If this was not true then motors
would not work.  But since this motion is virtual it can happen at any
velocity and is not limited by the speed of light. Think about that one in
the context of the E= BXV law.

In addition the only form of the flux linkage law which is universally valid
(where flux linkage applies) is the formula using A the vector potential and
not B the field.  A is the primary or fundamental quantity and not B. This
is demonstrated in the Marinov motor where there is no flux linkage and no
motion of flux and there is still induction (in the form of motor torque)
because A integrated over time and space does change.

>>
>>Also I've always wondered if the energy-flow between primary and
>>secondary
>>of a transformer is instantaneous or if it obeys the speed of light.

That's a good question.  But does anything obey the speed of light except
light ? :-)

>>
>>circuit.  Move the dipole antenna so it is no longer within the
>>nearfield
>>region surrounding the donut-inductor.  I suspect that the output
>>wattage
>>will not match the input, and that excess energy comes out of the
>>device.
>>
>>The above "donut inductor" effect has not been tested.  The WHY the hell
>>am I
>>rambling on like this?
>Because... it is really strange!

The Marinov motor (the real one not the ball bearing one) is pretty similar
to what you are talking about.  Although it is very strange, it is not OU as
far as anyone can tell yet.
I predict that your secondary will load the toroid.
>
>Didn't the Sutton "black-hole" antenna just take energy from a larger
>volume of space? No excess energy _just_ in that.

Right.

 How much different is the
>test of a regen. receiver with direct short wire antenna picking up the RF
>from a transmitter tank circuit? (Some early receivers used air core
>toroidal coils)

Not at all different, the regen reciever is quoted in the Sutton papers as a
forerunner of their invention.
The Sutton thing is basically a controlled feedback regen reciever.

Fred
