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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Lorentz force and drag
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:21:48 -0800
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Hi Alik and Dave,

I have to make a major correction here. The test with Bartlett (not Barnett)
at U of Colorado that I mention here had the exact opposite result than I
remembered it having. Here is the abstract:

Spinning Magnets and Jehle's Model Of The Electron
D.F. Bartlett, J. Monroy, J. Reeves
Phys Rev. D, V.16, N.12 (15 Dec 1977)

"We have inproved a classical test of unipolar induction. In this experiment
a cylindrical sample of magnetized steel is spun about its axis inside a
hollow, insulated steel sphere. According to the moving line theory of
unipolar induction the rotating magnetic field generates an electric field E
= -(w x r) x B in the region exterior to the magnet.  This field will have
the effect of elevating the potential of the enclosing sphere.  We have
searched in vain for such an effect and conclude if the magnetic field lines
are moved at all by the rotation of the magnet about its axis they are
dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 x 10^-4. This limit is
approximately 100 times more stringent than the 1912 measurement by Kennard.
We discuss the application of this work to Jehle's recent model of leptonic
charge."

Fred

>>Hmm, I misunderstood the intent of your experiment,
>>Alik. The E field near a rotating magnet has already
>>been detected on a number of occasions, starting back
>>in the 20's, with the Pegram experiment (I think that
>>was his name) and most recently under high precision
>>conditions Barnett at the U of Colorado.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:07:50 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:07:40 -1000
Subject: Re: Lorentz force and drag
From: Rick Monteverde <rick@highsurf.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Fred -


> I have to make a major correction here. The test with Bartlett (not Barnett)
> at U of Colorado that I mention here had the exact opposite result than I
> remembered it having. Here is the abstract:
> 
> Spinning Magnets and Jehle's Model Of The Electron
> D.F. Bartlett, J. Monroy, J. Reeves
> Phys Rev. D, V.16, N.12 (15 Dec 1977)

<snip>

I wasn't saying anything earlier because I thought you must have talking
about another experiment. This verifies the basic homopolar idea that a
magnetic field doesn't rotate on its axis or else you'd get current by
rotating the magnet with the conductive disc held stationary.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  1 21:21:07 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 22:01:10
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bartlett and induction
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Was Lorentz force and drag.
Hi Fred and all,
At 12:21 PM 11/1/99 -0800, you wrote:

>I have to make a major correction here. The test with Bartlett (not Barnett)
>at U of Colorado that I mention here had the exact opposite result than I
>remembered it having. Here is the abstract:
>
>"We have inproved a classical test of unipolar induction. In this experiment
>a cylindrical sample of magnetized steel is spun about its axis inside a
>hollow, insulated steel sphere. According to the moving line theory of
>unipolar induction the rotating magnetic field generates an electric field E
>= -(w x r) x B in the region exterior to the magnet.  This field will have
>the effect of elevating the potential of the enclosing sphere.  We have
>searched in vain for such an effect and conclude if the magnetic field lines
>are moved at all by the rotation of the magnet about its axis they are
>dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 x 10^-4. This limit is
>approximately 100 times more stringent than the 1912 measurement by Kennard.
>We discuss the application of this work to Jehle's recent model of leptonic
>charge."
Have you compared this with any of Hooper's rotation work?
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  1 21:21:11 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 21:53:53
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lorentz force and drag
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Hi Fred and all,
At 08:25 AM 11/1/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Dave and Alik,
>
>>F. Muller did some tests to determine "where" in the circuit (closed, Fred)
>
>:-) still reading about that one.
>
>>the induction was taking place. Sort of like the toroid with dipole antenna
>>Bill B. described a few months ago. I think his results were inconclusive.
>
>In what way? That paper BTW is at http://members.home.net/saiph/muller.htm
>for those who are interested in the question of induction in a homopolar
>motor.
>
Yes, I have some questions about this, and will ask him.
For example when you change the disk to a wire, the velocity of the
conductors is now the velocity of the current path. This seems to make a
difference.
In his 8 cases at the end of his paper, case 8 had the magnet, internal
wire, and external circuit moving. How was the induction measured, that is
did the measurement equipment move also? If so, this is very unusual! If
not, some of the other cases raise questions.

Actually the tests that were inconclusive were trying to measure induction
by an electrometer in the space around a toroid. The electrometer input
circuits formed another closed path intead of being an "open" loop. I have
tested this also with my electrostatic gradiometer with oscilloscope
output, as the meter cannot really show 60Hz variations.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 00:46:06 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: How's it all going? State of play league table
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:44:28 -0000
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Vortex,
Just dropped by to have a look, same old stuff :) Wranglers and the wrangled.

We're doing well. Have made good progress recently with materials that allow a much simpler, cheaper configuration. Lots of interest at universities and industry. We have OPERATING PRINCIPLE, and CALCULATIONS to PREDICT from material what we expect. Neare


r time and when stuff protected, we'll disclose.

By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor? Where does the energy come from? I've never paid attention because I was skeptical. Last time I looked at vo was late Aug. Was it Butch Halfonte doing that stuff?

Would it be possible to give a state of play of the arena? Something like a rating - 

6) Pure wishfulness, crankdom, amateurs (wankers/jerk level)
5) existence proof (pure science theoretical level)
4) repetable phenomena (pure science level)
3) plans for making phenomena more robust (applied science level)
2) Known, robust phenom, prototype (engineering level)
1) Devices to commercial order

I am between 4 and 3. If new material config. works out, will be at 2 very quickly. So how do the others go?

CF - 4/5
ZPE - 5
Solar cells 2/1
Biomass 2/1
Hot fusion 3
Fission nuclear power 1

You know what I'm getting at, go on give details please.
Remi.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 09:14:38 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How's it all going? State of play league table
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At 08:44 AM 11/2/99 -0000, Remi wrote:
>Vortex,

>By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor? Where
does the energy come from?

Here is a short explanation of a (variable) reluctance generator, the
commercial type, not the type like Butch's. The motor may be similar in
reverse.
Many var. reluctance generators operate in a "parametric" manner. The
stator has poles and coils, but the rotor is only poles of low magnetic
paths. There are no other magnets. Usually the number of rotor and stator
poles are different for multi-phase output. For a generator, current is
introduced into the windings during the low inductance part of the cycle
and removed during the higher inductance. The energy comes from the
mechanical torque. Reluctance generators are typically used in "farms" of
power generating windmills where they are connected to the power grid.

-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 09:31:26 1999
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Subject: Re: How's it all going? State of play league table
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At 08:44 AM 11/2/99 -0000, Remi wrote:
>Vortex,

>By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor? Where
does the energy come from?

Here is a short explanation of a (variable) reluctance generator, the
commercial type, not the type like Butch's. The motor may be similar in
reverse.
Many var. reluctance generators operate in a "parametric" manner. The
stator has poles and coils, but the rotor is only poles of low magnetic
paths. There are no other magnets. Usually the number of rotor and stator
poles are different for multi-phase output. For a generator, current is
introduced into the windings during the low inductance part of the cycle
and removed during the higher inductance. The energy comes from the
mechanical torque. Reluctance generators are typically used in "farms" of
power generating windmills where they are connected to the power grid.

-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 10:25:01 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
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Subject: RE: How's it all going? State of play league table
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Hi Dave,
Is butch around to explain concisely how these motors work (Adams etc.)?
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Dave Dameron [SMTP:ddameron@earthlink.net]
Sent:	02 November 1999 10:00
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re: How's it all going? State of play league table

At 08:44 AM 11/2/99 -0000, Remi wrote:
>Vortex,

>By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor? Where
does the energy come from?

Here is a short explanation of a (variable) reluctance generator, the
commercial type, not the type like Butch's. The motor may be similar in
reverse.
Many var. reluctance generators operate in a "parametric" manner. The
stator has poles and coils, but the rotor is only poles of low magnetic
paths. There are no other magnets. Usually the number of rotor and stator
poles are different for multi-phase output. For a generator, current is
introduced into the windings during the low inductance part of the cycle
and removed during the higher inductance. The energy comes from the
mechanical torque. Reluctance generators are typically used in "farms" of
power generating windmills where they are connected to the power grid.

-Dave


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 12:27:22 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.37b885ee.2550a316@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:27:02 EST
Subject: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump v1.0.
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear all,

I have updated my web site with a new interesting experiment, The Avramenko's 
Free Electrons Pump v1.0.

The AFEP experiment is based on the russian patent application filed on May 
10th, 1993 by Stanislav and Konstantin Avramenko ( PCT/GB93/00960 ). This a 
staight-forward application of the single-wire electrical energy transmission 
based upon the principle of longitudinal electrostatic waves as described by 
Nikola Tesla in the 1890s.

Some testing devices and experiments have already been done successfully by 
Stefan Hartmann with the "Car ignition coil experiments with Avramenko plug" 
( http://www.overunity.com/sparkfx/sparkfx2.jpg ) and freely released on the 
Web on October 26th, 1999 (thanks Stefan...).

So, today, I have reproduced successfully the Hartmann's setup with some 
improvements :

The electronic generator ( aka the Avramenko's monovibrator ) runs at a 
higher frequency ( 10KHz ), 
I have used a xenon flash tube instead of a simple spark gap, 
I have used a copper wire as an antenna for the coupling with the earth 
atmosphere (and not with the ground as in the Stefan's test ), the sucked 
free electrons act as a trigger for the xenon flash. 

You will find all diagrams pictures and tests results at :

    http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep01.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 13:24:43 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.f5517b0.2550b093@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:24:35 EST
Subject: Re:From Butch, conventional reluctance motor example
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 11/2/99 2:46:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk writes:

> By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor?
Remi,
I have put on my web site an example of a conventional reluctance motor. I 
thought that would be a good starting point. Please ask for any information 
you need, I will be glad to help.
Thanks,
Butch
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 1
</A>  or 
http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 13:32:52 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.2f354009.2550b1a6@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:29:10 EST
Subject: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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    For an experiment I need a hi-mu toroid with an air gap, a couple inches 
in dia. with  a half inch cross section, dimensions not critical.  My current 
plan is to find a toroid and take a hacksaw to it.  The question is, is there 
an around-the-house or  store item that would have a hi-mu (iron or steel) 
toroid that I might be able to use??
Or is there a better approach?  Ideas appreciated.
                                                                        Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 13:51:45 1999
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Message-ID: <381F5578.2C46A1F1@sinectis.com.ar>
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:19:52 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump v1.0.
References: <0.37b885ee.2550a316@aol.com>
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Hello Jean et al,

Great.
A question: You is wasting about of 5,2 watts... how power is rated your
xenon tube in normally conditions ?
And...this is lit to a full bright?

Thanks Juan.

JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:

> Dear all,
>
> I have updated my web site with a new interesting experiment, The Avramenko's
> Free Electrons Pump v1.0.
>
> The AFEP experiment is based on the russian patent application filed on May
> 10th, 1993 by Stanislav and Konstantin Avramenko ( PCT/GB93/00960 ). This a
> staight-forward application of the single-wire electrical energy transmission
> based upon the principle of longitudinal electrostatic waves as described by
> Nikola Tesla in the 1890s.
>
> Some testing devices and experiments have already been done successfully by
> Stefan Hartmann with the "Car ignition coil experiments with Avramenko plug"
> ( http://www.overunity.com/sparkfx/sparkfx2.jpg ) and freely released on the
> Web on October 26th, 1999 (thanks Stefan...).
>
> So, today, I have reproduced successfully the Hartmann's setup with some
> improvements :
>
> The electronic generator ( aka the Avramenko's monovibrator ) runs at a
> higher frequency ( 10KHz ),
> I have used a xenon flash tube instead of a simple spark gap,
> I have used a copper wire as an antenna for the coupling with the earth
> atmosphere (and not with the ground as in the Stefan's test ), the sucked
> free electrons act as a trigger for the xenon flash.
>
> You will find all diagrams pictures and tests results at :
>
>     http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep01.htm
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 14:27:24 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.83564a0.2550bf3f@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 17:27:11 EST
Subject: Re:From Butch, put conventional reluctance motor on web
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 11/2/99 2:46:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk writes:

> By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor?
Remi,
I have put on my web site an example of a conventional reluctance motor. I 
thought that would be a good starting point. Please ask for any information 
you need, I will be glad to help.
Thanks,
Butch
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 1
</A>  or 
http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 19:36:45 1999
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	Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:36:37 -0800
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 04:34:03 +0100
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re:From Butch, conventional reluctance motor example
Cc: HLafonte@aol.com
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Hi Butch ,
did you delete your old files there ?

What happened with the older test setup you tried ?

Regards, Stefan.

>In a message dated 11/2/99 2:46:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
>r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk writes:
>
>> By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor?
>Remi,
>I have put on my web site an example of a conventional reluctance motor. I 
>thought that would be a good starting point. Please ask for any information 
>you need, I will be glad to help.
>Thanks,
>Butch
> <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 1
></A>  or 
>http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
>
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 22:13:31 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.954e1fd7.25512c77@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 01:13:11 EST
Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump v1.0.
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dans un courrier dat du 03/11/99 00:40:19 Paris, Madrid, 
jdelac@sinectis.com.ar a crit :

> A question: You is wasting about of 5,2 watts... how power is rated your
>  xenon tube in normally conditions ?
>  And...this is lit to a full bright?

Dear Juan,

Tests and measurements are just began yesterday, I shall post additionnal 
datas as soon as I have done.
I have noticed an interesting thing : during the charge/discharge of the 
xenon tube and in spite of the big flash, there are NO fluctuation in the 
power input (voltage/current)  like a common relaxation system....

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  2 23:24:06 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 00:11:37
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)
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Hi Ken,
Is a round toroid required? Are you more concerned with the gap, and just
need a low reluctance path around it?
If you can used other closed forms, except for the gap, 2 "hardware store"
specials come to mind.
One is steel plates for the horiz. members, with holes drilled in the ends.
The vertical parts are sections of iron pipe. Bolts go through the pipes
and holes in the steel plate. One steel plate is in 2 pieces for the gap. I
have used this for an electromagnet core.

Yhe other is just a iron pipe plumbing special with 90 deg. joints.
For AC, cut up transformer laminations work, but the form is also rectangular.
No, I haven't seen a "split washer" this size!
At 04:29 PM 11/2/99 EST, you wrote:
>    For an experiment I need a hi-mu toroid with an air gap, a couple inches 
>in dia. with  a half inch cross section, dimensions not critical.  My
current 
>plan is to find a toroid and take a hacksaw to it.  The question is, is
there 
>an around-the-house or  store item that would have a hi-mu (iron or steel) 
>toroid that I might be able to use??
>Or is there a better approach?  Ideas appreciated.
>                                                                        Ken
>
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 02:09:58 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: From Butch, conventional reluctance motor example
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Cheers,
Hope it's going well.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	HLafonte@aol.com [SMTP:HLafonte@aol.com]
Sent:	02 November 1999 21:25
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Re:From Butch, conventional reluctance motor example

In a message dated 11/2/99 2:46:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk writes:

> By the way, what is the operating principle of a reluctance motor?
Remi,
I have put on my web site an example of a conventional reluctance motor. I 
thought that would be a good starting point. Please ask for any information 
you need, I will be glad to help.
Thanks,
Butch
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LaFonte Research site 1
</A>  or 
http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 02:09:58 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)
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Keasy,
Try ferrite torriods the type used for emc control, few turns of power =
lead etc wrapped around them. Cut it with something very sharp and =
narrow like a diamond cutter. Try Minicraft kits, they have diamond =
saws.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Keasy@aol.com [SMTP:Keasy@aol.com]
Sent:	02 November 1999 21:29
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)

    For an experiment I need a hi-mu toroid with an air gap, a couple =
inches=20
in dia. with  a half inch cross section, dimensions not critical.  My =
current=20
plan is to find a toroid and take a hacksaw to it.  The question is, is =
there=20
an around-the-house or  store item that would have a hi-mu (iron or =
steel)=20
toroid that I might be able to use??
Or is there a better approach?  Ideas appreciated.
                                                                        =
Ken


------ =_NextPart_000_01BF25E3.AC57C3A0
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 02:24:55 1999
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From: Remi Cornwall <r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:25:42 -0000
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BF25E5.C8859780
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Keasy,
Further to the last email, try this site:
http://www.vacuumschmelze.de

Go to products and have a look. They also have semi formed products such =
as hi mu sheets. They give samples.

Too many emails for today, I'll rattle Fred Sparber's cage.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Remi Cornwall [SMTP:r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk]
Sent:	03 November 1999 10:11
To:	'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'
Subject:	RE: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)

Keasy,
Try ferrite torriods the type used for emc control, few turns of power =
lead etc wrapped around them. Cut it with something very sharp and =
narrow like a diamond cutter. Try Minicraft kits, they have diamond =
saws.
Remi.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Keasy@aol.com [SMTP:Keasy@aol.com]
Sent:	02 November 1999 21:29
To:	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject:	Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)

    For an experiment I need a hi-mu toroid with an air gap, a couple =
inches=20
in dia. with  a half inch cross section, dimensions not critical.  My =
current=20
plan is to find a toroid and take a hacksaw to it.  The question is, is =
there=20
an around-the-house or  store item that would have a hi-mu (iron or =
steel)=20
toroid that I might be able to use??
Or is there a better approach?  Ideas appreciated.
                                                                        =
Ken


------ =_NextPart_000_01BF25E5.C8859780
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 03:57:37 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:59:11 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump
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If anyone is interested a video will be available
demonstrating this principle using a similar circuit.
This device was demonstrated at my two hour workshop
and one hour lecture this last July, at the Exotic
Research Conference, in Arizonia.

Using this same circuit a 1 1/2- inch, 1/2-ich thick
pure, solid, white arc was obtained before the conference
in my lab. While this arc was occuring zero current was
being drawn from the electronic ion pump. This was sustained
for about fifteen to twenty seconds before burning out the
diodes in the valve circuit that is very similar to what has
been posted in this news group. I have not gotten the chance
to design a valve circuit that will not burn out under the
high-cuurents that had been drawn through the device. I should
be getting back to this project with a few short weeks. 

Let me make it clear that the energy is being extracted from
the ground and not the antennna. The antenna acts only as a
capacity... a spool of wire can be substituted.


             -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:09:14 1999
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Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump 
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Gary,

Didi is right... it is in the book that you have.

Except that the circuit used at the conference was similar to what
is shown in the Hartmann/Naudin posts. The capacitors that I used
are .001 mfd at 15kv. The pump frequency is around 25Khz. About
10K peak to peak. The diodes were 20KV rated but could not handle
the current that was flowing through the gap. I will be trying
1KV diodes that are rated at 1 amp, ten in series for my next
solid-state
valve. Also, the circuit configuration is not quite right in the
Hartmann/Naudin circuit to draw in the amps. I also think that if you
measure the current draw in their ignition coil you will find that there
is about a one-amp drain. I used ignition coils back in 1996 and found
them to be energy hogs. Flyback transformers driven at rensonance are
very efficient.



Gary Young wrote:
> 
> All of US.....Bruce! As for me,,,,send me as detailed a discription as
> possible, and discribe what you think needs to be done to beef it
> up!,,,,,charge me for the video too! When it is ready,,,,,you can send it to
> me,,,,in the meantime,,,,if I get the thing going,,,,I will send you a video
> free of charge!.....Is it alright if I use my mobil home as the
> antena?,,,,,Or maybe the Aluminum storage shed that sits on a concrete
> slab.....
>      Of course! really hearty Perreault Valves would do the trick,,,,,,right!
> Gary (:-)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:10:23 1999
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Subject: Re: AFEP ////  There is the possiblility that the circuit will work as is,,,,,,IF...
References: <000601bf260f$4691fa00$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com>
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Gary Young wrote:
> 
> Say What is On your Mind!
> 
> you don't short it out by drawing an arc,,,,,,what happens if you place a
> proper load on the device?   Thus limiting the current,,,,,and speaking of
> current,,,,what are the details,,,more or less eg: volts and amps being
> drawn thru the arc? Gary (:-)


I didn't have time to check this because the current burned out my valve
circuit.


     -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:27:06 1999
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Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump
References: <00305bca.c21508@globalcrossing.com>
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martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> >Let me make it clear that the energy is being extracted from
> >the ground and not the antennna. The antenna acts only as a
> >capacity... a spool of wire can be substituted.
> 
> The Naudin setup seems to be completely unearthed. It doesn't
> seem likely that ions are being extracted from the air as
> there is just not enough of them. The question that remains
> is where is his earth?


There has to be a virtual ground involved in their circuit.
I used this sort of configuration at the conference because
there was no earth ground available... I got fair results...
nothing like I got before the valve circuit burned out.


> 
> Talking about earths, what kinds of earths have you tried. I noticed that
> the Moray earth documented was in or by a stream. It seemed clear to me
> that the observers were more interested in the antenna than the earth and
> their reports about the earth is minimal. Is there anything else that was
> said about the earths?
> 
> Martin.


It is stated that the deeper that the earth ground was driven the
brighter
the lights got.


        -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:42:42 1999
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Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump 
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:44:26 -0600
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Bruce I know you must know this, but in case it is back in memory storage
someplace, when you build your series diode stack, don't forget to equalize
the drop across each with 1% resistors of > 10Meg ohms. If not you will
still suffer break down.

We still fail to understand why Hartmann/Naudin seem bent on so much power
input, it just is not required.

Rex.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: Say What is On your Mind! <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
Cc: <nuenergy@listbot.com>; <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump


> Gary,
>
> Didi is right... it is in the book that you have.
>
> Except that the circuit used at the conference was similar to what
> is shown in the Hartmann/Naudin posts. The capacitors that I used
> are .001 mfd at 15kv. The pump frequency is around 25Khz. About
> 10K peak to peak. The diodes were 20KV rated but could not handle
> the current that was flowing through the gap. I will be trying
> 1KV diodes that are rated at 1 amp, ten in series for my next
> solid-state
> valve. Also, the circuit configuration is not quite right in the
> Hartmann/Naudin circuit to draw in the amps. I also think that if you
> measure the current draw in their ignition coil you will find that there
> is about a one-amp drain. I used ignition coils back in 1996 and found
> them to be energy hogs. Flyback transformers driven at rensonance are
> very efficient.
>
>
>
> Gary Young wrote:
> >
> > All of US.....Bruce! As for me,,,,send me as detailed a discription as
> > possible, and discribe what you think needs to be done to beef it
> > up!,,,,,charge me for the video too! When it is ready,,,,,you can send
it to
> > me,,,,in the meantime,,,,if I get the thing going,,,,I will send you a
video
> > free of charge!.....Is it alright if I use my mobil home as the
> > antena?,,,,,Or maybe the Aluminum storage shed that sits on a concrete
> > slab.....
> >      Of course! really hearty Perreault Valves would do the
trick,,,,,,right!
> > Gary (:-)
>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:50:34 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>, "Nu Energy Horizons" <nuenergy@listbot.com>
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References: <00305bca.c21508@globalcrossing.com> <382062A5.3375@cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:53:02 -0600
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I think one might want to look into something Frolov so aptly stated in his
work with the AV Plug, that was that the effect was in addition to
displacement current due to the time varying potential, but also dependant
on the electrons of the electron gas within the wires themselves.

We explained this in our DCG-CD01 and later elaborated on how this is in
fact a function of Frolov's theory. Our Simple Power Translator circuit
makes use of minimal external capacity (parasitic if you wish).

It is not felt that air born free electrons or ions are the sole
contributor. On must look at the metal (wire) 'electron/hole' combinations
ath the metallic surfaces and the boundary effect.

Rex.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: Nu Energy Horizons <nuenergy@listbot.com>
Cc: <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>; <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: AFEP v1.0, The Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump


> martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > >Let me make it clear that the energy is being extracted from
> > >the ground and not the antennna. The antenna acts only as a
> > >capacity... a spool of wire can be substituted.
> >
> > The Naudin setup seems to be completely unearthed. It doesn't
> > seem likely that ions are being extracted from the air as
> > there is just not enough of them. The question that remains
> > is where is his earth?
>
>
> There has to be a virtual ground involved in their circuit.
> I used this sort of configuration at the conference because
> there was no earth ground available... I got fair results...
> nothing like I got before the valve circuit burned out.
>
>
> >
> > Talking about earths, what kinds of earths have you tried. I noticed
that
> > the Moray earth documented was in or by a stream. It seemed clear to me
> > that the observers were more interested in the antenna than the earth
and
> > their reports about the earth is minimal. Is there anything else that
was
> > said about the earths?
> >
> > Martin.
>
>
> It is stated that the deeper that the earth ground was driven the
> brighter
> the lights got.
>
>
>         -BAP
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 10:13:13 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:12:52 EST
Subject: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device :

The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of the 
AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square wave 
pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC 
source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.

The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)

The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the energy 
transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.

You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 10:35:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:37:06 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Why are you avoiding grounding the other side of
your ignition coil???


      -BAP




JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device :
> 
> The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of the
> AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square wave
> pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC
> source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
> 
> The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
> 
> The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the energy
> transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
> 
> You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
> 
> Best Regards
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 10:42:33 1999
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References: <000a01bf260d$cf851920$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com> <38205E83.13A6@cyberportal.net> <000e01bf261a$cbb1de20$c021fea9@agent>
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techlab wrote:
> 
> Bruce I know you must know this, but in case it is back in memory storage
> someplace, when you build your series diode stack, don't forget to equalize
> the drop across each with 1% resistors of 10Meg ohms. If not you will
> still suffer break down.


Thank you! I did forget... too much of the mind these days.


> 
> We still fail to understand why Hartmann/Naudin seem bent on so much power
> input, it just is not required.
> 
> Rex.


Because they are new to this phenomenon... let them make their
mistakes...
then we will talk... ;)


      -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 10:52:48 1999
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On 03-Nov-99 Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
>> Talking about earths, what kinds of earths have you tried. I noticed that
>> the Moray earth documented was in or by a stream.
> It is stated that the deeper that the earth ground was driven the
> brighter the lights got.

I was talking to an electrician friend a few weeks back about 
grounds, and he said he had recently done a 'low impedance' 
ground for Sprint - 3 rods, each driven 90 feet, in a delta
configuration, 10' on each side.

Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 11:00:23 1999
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techlab wrote:
> 
> I think one might want to look into something Frolov so aptly stated in his
> work with the AV Plug, that was that the effect was in addition to
> displacement current due to the time varying potential, but also dependant
> on the electrons of the electron gas within the wires themselves.


Now your talking... you are a researcher after my own heart!
I will now share something that was revealed to me by someone
who has seen the real Moray device. He was also told all of
it's secrets by someone who has passed on. This was the only
person who Moray trusted... even more so than his own sons.
Moray had one big major with his radiant energy device. 
The wires and circuits would decay over time. He was never
able to solve this problem and this is the real reason why it
never made it to product level. I have also been told that the
energy was already in the wires... That, radioactive material
was not the real some of power. So... with the circuits decaying
you do not have a perpetual power supply... it does run down
because of the decay. I have still not come to full terms with
this. This is because I have been lead down the atomic route like
many others. The verdict is not yet in... we will just have to
wait and see. 


> 
> We explained this in our DCG-CD01 and later elaborated on how this is in
> fact a function of Frolov's theory. Our Simple Power Translator circuit
> makes use of minimal external capacity (parasitic if you wish).


Hmmm... I would like to see this information if it is not proprietary.


> 
> It is not felt that air born free electrons or ions are the sole
> contributor. On must look at the metal (wire) 'electron/hole' combinations
> ath the metallic surfaces and the boundary effect.
> 
> Rex.


Yes... there are little ions in the air to justify this amount
of power that has been demonstrated. If the energy is coming from
electrons in the wire... as I have stated in a previous e-mail...
I beleive that the ions from the earth are reacting with the ground 
side wires in the circuit. Thus, converting these impinging ions 
into excess electrons with the copper wire. 

If the above is the case, then it is conceivable that we can control 
any excess reactions that might be causing the decay of the circuits.


             -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 11:38:01 1999
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I may release the description of my latest
"prototype 2000" in a few days to the various
lists that I belong to. This should lead the way
to bigger and better experiments for list members.

This should clear the way for better understanding
of the energy that we are dealing with here.


           -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 11:59:37 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 21:58:31 +0100
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
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http://www.overunity.com/update.htm

-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 13:07:04 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.da305d54.2551fde8@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:06:48 EST
Subject: Re: Need Ring (toroid) ---(have hacksaw)
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In a message dated 11/3/99 3:03:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
r.o.cornwall@city.ac.uk writes:

> Keasy,
>  Try ferrite torriods the type used for emc control, few turns of power 
lead 
> etc wrapped around them. Cut it with something very sharp and narrow like a 
> diamond cutter. Try Minicraft kits, they have diamond saws.
I did in fact think of a ferrite toroid and took my hacksaw to one I have.  I 
sawed for about five minutes and checked the saw penetration -- there was 
only the slightest nick.  I decided maybe there is something better to use.  
But I'm glad to know that will work with a diamond saw.
                                                         Thanks            Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 13:14:14 1999
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:46:43 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
References: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com>
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Hello all,

I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave is more
easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.
What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
sequentially ?
A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step down)
if high voltage is used.
Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then discharged
thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts consumed
in a primary supply. Or more ?
Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
could try this ? ;-)

Regards, Juan.

JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:

> Dear All,
>
> I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device :
>
> The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of the
> AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square wave
> pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC
> source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
>
> The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
>
> The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the energy
> transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
>
> You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
>
> Best Regards
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 14:13:34 1999
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Message-ID: <3820B3E0.4ED@cyberportal.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:14:56 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
References: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com> <381F77E2.45A7A261@sinectis.com.ar>
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Juan de la Cruz Barrios wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
> more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave is more
> easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
> We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.


Now the trick is to get kilowatts of excess power. :)


>
> What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> sequentially?


You mean a voltage multiplier? This does not increase the pumping
effect. It only increases the voltage, reduces the amps, and a whole
lot of leakage results in big losses.


Moray used additional tank circuit stages. My design bypasses
this need.


>
> A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step down)
> if high voltage is used.


Forget about using ignition coils. There is excessive losses because
of the core material that it uses. My prototype 2000 steps down the
pumping voltage... the captured energy gets processed along with this
step-down to a usable voltage.


>
> Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then discharged
> thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
> It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts consumed
> in a primary supply. Or more ?


Try it and get back to me.


>
> Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
> could try this ? ;-)
> 
> Regards, Juan.


I have been there and done that... it is time to move onto
the product level. The only thing to do now is to take the
concept from bench-top to product. This is easier said than
done.


       -Bruce A. Perreault




> 
> JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:
> 
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device :
> >
> > The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of the
> > AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square wave
> > pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC
> > source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
> >
> > The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
> >
> > The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the energy
> > transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
> >
> > You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> > eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 14:25:24 1999
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Message-ID: <013501bf26c8$42afdec0$8bf04ed8@may>
From: "Nancy May" <nancy28@bellsouth.net>
To: <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: <nuenergy@listbot.com>, <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
References: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com> <381F77E2.45A7A261@sinectis.com.ar> <3820B3E0.4ED@cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 05:26:46 -0800
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Why not control powerful permanent magnets with less powerful magnets . Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: <nuenergy@listbot.com>; <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2


> Juan de la Cruz Barrios wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
> > more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave
is more
> > easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
> > We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.
>
>
> Now the trick is to get kilowatts of excess power. :)
>
>
> >
> > What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> > sequentially?
>
>
> You mean a voltage multiplier? This does not increase the pumping
> effect. It only increases the voltage, reduces the amps, and a whole
> lot of leakage results in big losses.
>
>
> Moray used additional tank circuit stages. My design bypasses
> this need.
>
>
> >
> > A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step
down)
> > if high voltage is used.
>
>
> Forget about using ignition coils. There is excessive losses because
> of the core material that it uses. My prototype 2000 steps down the
> pumping voltage... the captured energy gets processed along with this
> step-down to a usable voltage.
>
>
> >
> > Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then
discharged
> > thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
> > It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts
consumed
> > in a primary supply. Or more ?
>
>
> Try it and get back to me.
>
>
> >
> > Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
> > could try this ? ;-)
> >
> > Regards, Juan.
>
>
> I have been there and done that... it is time to move onto
> the product level. The only thing to do now is to take the
> concept from bench-top to product. This is easier said than
> done.
>
>
>        -Bruce A. Perreault
>
>
>
>
> >
> > JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP
device :
> > >
> > > The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version
of the
> > > AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square
wave
> > > pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V
DC
> > > source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
> > >
> > > The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
> > >
> > > The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the
energy
> > > transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
> > >
> > > You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> > > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Jean-Louis Naudin
> > > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> > > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> > > eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 14:55:02 1999
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 22:28:09 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
References: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com> <381F77E2.45A7A261@sinectis.com.ar> <3820B3E0.4ED@cyberportal.net>
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Hello Bruce,


> >
> > I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
> > more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave is more
> > easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
> > We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.
>
> Now the trick is to get kilowatts of excess power. :)
>
> >
> > What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> > sequentially?
>
> You mean a voltage multiplier? This does not increase the pumping
> effect. It only increases the voltage, reduces the amps, and a whole
> lot of leakage results in big losses.

No, I don't mean a voltage multiplier. It have DC voltage and don't work.
The idea is charge several caps meantime other cap is discharged in a load,
to sustain such load. So, sequentially a determinated load could be sustained.
It's doable with a digital control circuit and a switches with mosfet, I think.....

Regards, Juan.




From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 15:10:57 1999
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Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
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Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org


----- Original Message -----
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2


> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
> > more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave
is
> more
> > easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
> > We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.
>

This is the concept of Displacement Current. The current (actually a
virtual current) is created by a molecular distortion of the dielectric when
exposed to a time varying potential. This virtual current is seen as
conduction current. In fact you don't need the capacitor at all. If you look
at out site under SPT you will see how we use a displacement current from
the wire itself and transfer the power down to an impedance where it can be
applied and worked with.

Now when you talk of charging the capacitor for FREE, you are technically
correct, although this fact is of little use when you start loading the
circuit. The displacement current can indeed charge the cap from only the
effect of the time varying potential, but when you start sucking out power
the dielectric can't distort and give up any more current. So where doe
the other electrons come from to allow powering of a load. I think this is
what every one is dancing around with here. When someone sees what's
happening
it will be like an explosion in their head.

This high voltage stuff don't make for powering everyday devices, you have
to get it down into the real world, such as "OUR" Simple Power Translator.

>
> > What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> > sequentially ?
> > A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step
down)
> > if high voltage is used.
> > Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then
> discharged
> > thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
> > It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts
> consumed
> > in a primary supply. Or more ?
> > Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
> > could try this ? ;-)
> >
>

You just do not need all these components, you burn up power and detune.

>
> > Regards, Juan.
> >
> JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device
:
> >
> > The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of
the
> > AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square
wave
> > pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC
> > source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
> >
> > The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
> >
> > The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the
energy
> > transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
> >
> > You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> > eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 16:04:12 1999
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Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2
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Advanced Technology Group
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----- Original Message -----
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Single-Wire Energy Transmission test with the AFEP v1.2


> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've tested a low voltage version (80-100 Volts) and work too, but at
> > more high frequency (120 Khz o more). At high frequency and square wave
is
> more
> > easy find some resonance effect in the whole thing.
> > We can now charge a cap "virtually" for free.
>

This is the concept of Displacement Current. The current (actually a
virtual current) is created by a molecular distortion of the dielectric when
exposed to a time varying potential. This virtual current is seen as
conduction current. In fact you don't need the capacitor at all. If you look
at out site under SPT you will see how we use a displacement current from
the wire itself and transfer the power down to an impedance where it can be
applied and worked with.

Now when you talk of charging the capacitor for FREE, you are technically
correct, although this fact is of little use when you start loading the
circuit. The displacement current can indeed charge the cap from only the
effect of the time varying potential, but when you start sucking out power
the dielectric can't distort and give up any more current. So where doe
the other electrons come from to allow powering of a load. I think this is
what every one is dancing around with here. When someone sees what's
happening
it will be like an explosion in their head.

This high voltage stuff don't make for powering everyday devices, you have
to get it down into the real world, such as "OUR" Simple Power Translator.

>
> > What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> > sequentially ?
> > A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step
down)
> > if high voltage is used.
> > Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then
> discharged
> > thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
> > It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts
> consumed
> > in a primary supply. Or more ?
> > Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
> > could try this ? ;-)
> >
>

You just do not need all these components, you burn up power and detune.

>
> > Regards, Juan.
> >
> JNaudin509@aol.com escribi:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I have updated my web site with a new test result about the AFEP device
:
> >
> > The AFEP v1.2 (Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump) is a improved version of
the
> > AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square
wave
> > pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC
> > source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
> >
> > The First Single-Wire Energy Transmission test (11-03-99)
> >
> > The purpose of this test is to check the inventor's claim about the
energy
> > transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug.
> >
> > You will find all diagrams and pictures at :
> > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep012.htm
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
> > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
> > eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 16:11:38 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 19:12:58 -0500
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References: <0.cfe88e0b.2551d524@aol.com> <381F77E2.45A7A261@sinectis.com.ar> <001901bf2651$09b61e80$c021fea9@agent>
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techlab wrote:
> 
> Now when you talk of charging the capacitor for FREE, you are technically
> correct, although this fact is of little use when you start loading the
> circuit. The displacement current can indeed charge the cap from only the
> effect of the time varying potential, but when you start sucking out power
> the dielectric can't distort and give up any more current. So where doe
> the other electrons come from to allow powering of a load. I think this is
> what every one is dancing around with here. When someone sees what's
> happening it will be like an explosion in their head.


This is clearly outlined in my book release a few weeks ago.
Tuning into the electron oscillation is what makes this feasible.


> 
> This high voltage stuff don't make for powering everyday devices, you have
> to get it down into the real world, such as "OUR" Simple Power Translator.


The high-voltage is required if you are going to do any serious
ion pumping. This voltage can and is converted down to practical
voltages.


    -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 16:17:15 1999
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 18:01:34 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 01:34:11 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Hello all,

techlab escribi:

> This is the concept of Displacement Current. The current (actually a
> virtual current) is created by a molecular distortion of the dielectric when
> exposed to a time varying potential. This virtual current is seen as
> conduction current. In fact you don't need the capacitor at all. If you look
> at out site under SPT you will see how we use a displacement current from
> the wire itself and transfer the power down to an impedance where it can be
> applied and worked with.
>
> Now when you talk of charging the capacitor for FREE, you are technically
> correct, although this fact is of little use when you start loading the
> circuit. The displacement current can indeed charge the cap from only the
> effect of the time varying potential, but when you start sucking out power
> the dielectric can't distort and give up any more current.

Mmm. I'm don't agree. I put a led without cap and lit perfectly.
Or the led componets is working as dielectric?

> So where doe
> the other electrons come from to allow powering of a load. I think this is
> what every one is dancing around with here. When someone sees what's
> happening
> it will be like an explosion in their head.
>
> This high voltage stuff don't make for powering everyday devices, you have
> to get it down into the real world, such as "OUR" Simple Power Translator.
>
> >
> > > What if we can get many caps and discharge this caps to a matched load
> > > sequentially ?
> > > A matched load could be another ignition coil (but inverted to step
> down)
> > > if high voltage is used.
> > > Maybe 10 ( or 100 ? ) caps charged until reach a theshold and then
> > discharged
> > > thru a mosfet or anything to a load meantime others caps are charged.
> > > It's a crazy idea, but with suffice caps could reach a 4 or 5 watts
> > consumed
> > > in a primary supply. Or more ?
> > > Maybe someone with time, lab, nice camera, webpage and will
> > > could try this ? ;-)
> > >
> >
>
> You just do not need all these components, you burn up power and detune.

Yes, but you still charging only one cap or working with only one output.
What if you build a driver with several outputs and charge respective caps?
Or a unique driver with a switched output to a several caps?
I've tried a low tension version and work fine. At these voltages build a
switched driver with several outputs isn't difficult.
I wish have a little more of time to try this.

Regards, Juan.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 20:08:56 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 21:10:55 -0500
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I do not know if their magnets are any cheaper than other
places.

http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov  3 20:11:07 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 23:12:42 -0500
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This thought has been nagging at me all day...
it just didn't fully register until late tonite.

Before publishing my latest release ywo weeks ago,
I posted the news lists asking if I should publish or
not.

Kelly, you may have been right! I was hoping that
it would turn out different this time around.

On Sept. 26, 1999 you stated,

"Keep in mind the results of each release you have made 
up till now. It seems that each fundamental advancement 
that you have put forward has been met with criticism
first and then someone else claiming to have something 
that looks just like it. It is unlikely that this will 
be much different."

Those of you who have a copy of my latest releases can
clearly see what is now transpiring. The "Holy Grail"
was registered early October with an ISBN. This should
serve to validate when the information was published.
I had also posted a free Radiant Energy Research Manual,
"shareware version" to my website a few months back.
Although, I do not think this is proper documentation
of discovery. However, a video taped public demonstration 
in July certainly does prove validation of my work.

I have many more things to share but I am suffering from
disenchantment at this point. We will have to see what the July
2000 conference brings... product looks promising this year.

However... if I am going to share my work a little appreciation
goes a long way. There are a few of you who have encouraged me
to move forward... this has given me the strength to carry on...
for you I will see this though... 


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 04:31:12 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:25:45 -0500
Subject: High Voltage Switch
Message-ID: <19991104.072550.-523777.1.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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Hello All,

	I have noticed that many of the experiments reported on this list
involve high voltages.  How do you switch them on and off from the high
voltage side, as in charging a capacitor and then switching it to a load?
 So far, the best switch I have seen is a pair of spheres that are each
terminals of the switch.  To turn it on, you bring them close together
and an arc completes the circuit.  The problem I have is the energy
wasted in the arc, which could be used in the experiment rather than for
heating air (& electromagnetic radiation, etc.).  From a few crude
experiments with sustained arcs (~5 cm), I have observed that a magnetic
field will retard the formation of the arc, which is undoubtably due to
the effect from the magnet on the ions that precede the arc. 
Unfortunately, I have not been able to formulate rules on the specific
interaction principles.  Here is my suggestion:  put two small spheres
close together, but not touching, and generate a strong magnetic field
between them.  This will prevent an arc from forming and only minimal
power is wasted through loss of ions.  When you want to close the switch,
remove the magnetic field.  An electromagnet is ideal.  Can anyone on
this list make some suggestions as to the orientation of the field, or if
this device would even work?

	-Tom
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 05:37:38 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:38:50 -0500
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Tom,

Moray used a tad of radium mixed with shellac and applied
this to his electrodes for efficient switching.

However, we have come up with a solution that does not
require radioactive material. What we do is coat needle-point
electrodes with a semiconductive material. This keeps the heat
away from the needle except at the point where it should be.
The result is perfect ionization at the point of discharge.
No heat is wasted along the surface of these electrodes.

An additional benifit is that the discharge is not erratic.
It is smoothe and regulated. A side effect is the intense
star-like, pure white, bright light... this could be used in 
longer lasting light-bulbs with further development.


           
         -Bruce A. Perreault






tgrimes1@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
>         I have noticed that many of the experiments reported on this list
> involve high voltages.  How do you switch them on and off from the high
> voltage side, as in charging a capacitor and then switching it to a load?
>  So far, the best switch I have seen is a pair of spheres that are each
> terminals of the switch.  To turn it on, you bring them close together
> and an arc completes the circuit.  The problem I have is the energy
> wasted in the arc, which could be used in the experiment rather than for
> heating air (& electromagnetic radiation, etc.).  From a few crude
> experiments with sustained arcs (~5 cm), I have observed that a magnetic
> field will retard the formation of the arc, which is undoubtably due to
> the effect from the magnet on the ions that precede the arc.
> Unfortunately, I have not been able to formulate rules on the specific
> interaction principles.  Here is my suggestion:  put two small spheres
> close together, but not touching, and generate a strong magnetic field
> between them.  This will prevent an arc from forming and only minimal
> power is wasted through loss of ions.  When you want to close the switch,
> remove the magnetic field.  An electromagnet is ideal.  Can anyone on
> this list make some suggestions as to the orientation of the field, or if
> this device would even work?
> 
>         -Tom

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 07:07:44 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Energy Xmission
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:10:03 -0600
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We feel it necessary before the issues of the AV Plug and Single Wire
Transmission digress into the typical ramblings and infighting that always
seems to take place when something of substance it introduced.

We see some very different devices being presented here, all of which are
similar yet have totally different application as presented in their early
stages.

1) The AV Plug, Demonstration of Displacement Current.
2) Single Wire Energy Transmission
3) FREE Energy generation.

1A)Although Frolov stated a ~3% manifested power he felt was not coming from
his power source in his simple AV Plug experiments, this level is small and
could totally be measurement error. Our work on the same basic design did
confirm that he was right and there is indeed energy gained from some source
other than the power supply, in such amount that measurement error can be
counted out. The basic question is if it takes 3W to get 0.25W of power, you
still can not close the loop and can not use the initial 3W to power
something else while allowing the recovery of the 1/4W of excess power as a
freebee. What's the point?

2A)The whole single wire transmission issue is the mere re-observation of a
long known fact, thank you Tesla. We explain in our experimental results
that this idea does have application, yet some very marked limitations. We
feel if one were to apply this same idea (basic underlying principle) to
optical transmission and conversation back to usable energy, you could turn
the power grids into optical fiber lines. This does seem possible with
existing technology and Maxwell's equation covering displacement current.

3A) A step over the cliff. Leave the energy supply grid as is. Place at the
service entrance to each user a Generator/Translator. The user gets the same
available energy and the supply grid sees only a very small actual
consumption, (loss already understood) but not the loss of the actual drain
by users. Drop the grid voltage down (its only high to reduce loss) and you
could see the Holy Gail result.

We think everyone here is talking about the same thing as pertains to
RESULT, although there is a spider web of work by different people all
narrowing to the center.Each wanting desperately to be the first, obtain the
name, win the prize.

No wonder this is all taking so long.

Rex Allen.
Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 08:21:33 1999
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Nice HV web site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/hvmain.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:14:01 1999
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Mr. Calvin Bahlmann's Power Wheel,

http://www.Fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/powerw.htm


Please note here that the power wheel used what
Mr. Calvin Bahlmann calls "water cells." These
are similar to "capture capacitors" as described
in my online radiant energy research manual.

These water cells were developed independently
from my own formulas. Mr. Bahlmann had had these
cells lighting small L.E.D.s for a couple of years
now without any substantial degredation of the cell
under load. Please also bear in mind that these cells
do not require high-voltage for activation. They are
stand-alone self regenerating.


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:21:49 1999
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techlab wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> We think everyone here is talking about the same thing as pertains to
> RESULT, although there is a spider web of work by different people all
> narrowing to the center. Each wanting desperately to be the first, obtain 
> the name, win the prize.


Mr. Calvin Bahlmann and myself have gotten my "results" over the years.
We have made many public demonstrations. Numberous releases have been
posted to the internet. However, it has been brought to our attention
by the patent office that "the internet is not a fixed media," therefore
it does not constitute publication. To do a release on the internet an
inventor stands to lose any proprietary rights. To avoid this...
hardcopy
must be published first.


            -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:39:10 1999
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From: Charlie Hodgson <cbh@bigfoot.com>
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On 04-Nov-99 Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> ... it has been brought to our attention
> by the patent office that "the internet is not a fixed media," therefore
> it does not constitute publication. ....  
>  To avoid this... hardcopy must be published first.

My understanding is that a patent won't be issued on something,
if that something had been published more than two years prior.

Or, if you publish your idea in print, you have two years to
apply for a patent.

Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:52:03 1999
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Charlie,

Yes, this is true if you are applying for a patent.
What I am saying is that your posting on the internet
can be grabbed and claimed by anyone. They can then
go and apply for a patent and stop you from manufacturing
and selling your own concepts and designs.

I have posted my findings to the internet freely.
Patents to me only protect the big companies. 
However, I did expect that my released findings
people would remember where they originated.
Is it such a big thing to gain recognition for
ones work?

Many people have written to me thanking me for
my contributions... for these people I am forever
grateful... these are the ones that light the way
through the lonely tunnel that I travel through
from day to day.

What makes me crazy is the posts that deny my
existance... 

Any how... the dust always settles and my work
stands proud.


         -Bruce A. Perreault



Charlie Hodgson wrote:
> 
> On 04-Nov-99 Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> > ... it has been brought to our attention
> > by the patent office that "the internet is not a fixed media," therefore
> > it does not constitute publication. ....
> >  To avoid this... hardcopy must be published first.
> 
> My understanding is that a patent won't be issued on something,
> if that something had been published more than two years prior.
> 
> Or, if you publish your idea in print, you have two years to
> apply for a patent.
> 
> Charlie

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 10:41:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Energy from "electron gas" 
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:55:03 -0800
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Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org


> I will now share something that was revealed to me by someone
> who has seen the real Moray device. He was also told all of
> it's secrets by someone who has passed on. This was the only
> person who Moray trusted... even more so than his own sons.
> Moray had one big major with his radiant energy device.
> The wires and circuits would decay over time. He was never
> able to solve this problem and this is the real reason why it
> never made it to product level. I have also been told that the
> energy was already in the wires... That, radioactive material
> was not the real some of power. So... with the circuits decaying
> you do not have a perpetual power supply... it does run down
> because of the decay. I have still not come to full terms with
> this. This is because I have been lead down the atomic route like
> many others. The verdict is not yet in... we will just have to
> wait and see.

I can confirm this to some extent.  In 1984, I met a gentleman named Lionel
Cornwall, who was 84 for at the time.  He talked about his close friendship
with Henry Moray, though I don't recall him describing himself as "the only
person who Moray trusted".  A few years later, Lionel decided to leave this
planet.

Lionel was an engineer who worked in early radio in the Salt Lake area (I
confirmed this at
http://eddy.media.utah.edu/medsol/UCME/b/BROADCASTHISTORY.html) .  He said
that the Moray device definitely worked - shorting a steel bar across the
terminals only caused the steel bar to glow red!  Lionel could make not
sense of the inner workings. He said that Moray's design was to some extent
a product of inspiration.  Moray was very frustrated when he found that his
understanding of the device was incomplete and that he was unable to
duplicate it!  He claimed that this was the reason for Moray's refusal to
make a full disclosure.

He told about another invention of Moray's -- a remote listening device.
Lionel said they would sit in a room and be able to eavesdrop all around the
surrounding area by tuning this device - overhear a conversation miles away.
He said Moray definitely did not want to disclose that one!

Rex


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 11:39:28 1999
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Alright, look..the opposite of a voltage multiplier is a voltage
divider.

Essentially you setup a  circuit of caps so that they can be switched
from:
    Phase I) where all are in series and charged collectively with a
Hi-Voltage.
    THEN
    Phase II) where all are in parallel, thus dividing the Hi-Voltage
and thereby
    multiplying the available current.

 I have seen versions of this that were done, (believe it or not!) with
relays! There
are better means of doing this nowadays - a casual perusal of the
semiconductor
catalogs will serve as an illustrative mechanism. Transistors in the
form of switching
thyrac's etcetra.

        Cheers!

            -Erik aka KB6LUY

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov  4 12:32:36 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:53:54 -0500
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Released Early October 1999 - ISBN 1-930216-01-7


http://www.nuenergy.org/grail.htm



                 -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov  5 19:37:08 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: test
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:36:50 +1100
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this too
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Energy from "electron gas" 
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:45:15 +1100
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On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:02:02 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
[snip]
>energy was already in the wires... That, radioactive material
>was not the real some of power. So... with the circuits decaying
>you do not have a perpetual power supply... it does run down
>because of the decay. I have still not come to full terms with
>this. This is because I have been lead down the atomic route like
>many others. The verdict is not yet in... we will just have to
>wait and see. 
[snip]
Another possibility is that a Mills style "super-chemistry" reaction is
involved, where the atoms themselves are collapsing, and supplying
energy in the process. This would also explain long term deterioration
of the materials.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov  5 19:48:32 1999
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From: GEOFF EGEL <egel@main.murray.net.au>
Subject: Hans Coler Magnetstromapparat.
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This A message I received   from an experimenter.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

As previously discussed I have attempted to re create a Magnetstromapparat.
>I attach a file which you may wish to read and you are welcome to add to
>your web site.
>
>I prefer to remain Annonymous (I don't want the russians turning up on my
>doorstep :-) ) so if you do decide to put it on the site, perhaps you could
>edit it so that  replies are sent via yourself. I do not intend to publish
>this elsewhere.
>
>Do you have any comments on the file content??
>
>Regards 
>
>Peter
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------


This information can be viewed    at
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/replica.htm
Any comments can be sent via this energy 21 newsgroup
My ICQ number is 51055654    love a chat if I'm on line

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov  5 20:57:13 1999
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GEOFF EGEL wrote:

> This A message I received   from an experimenter.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> As previously discussed I have attempted to re create a Magnetstromapparat.
> >I attach a file which you may wish to read and you are welcome to add to
> >your web site.
> >
> >I prefer to remain Annonymous (I don't want the russians turning up on my
> >doorstep :-) ) so if you do decide to put it on the site, perhaps you could
> >edit it so that  replies are sent via yourself. I do not intend to publish
> >this elsewhere.
> >
> >Do you have any comments on the file content??
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Peter
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
> This information can be viewed    at
> http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/replica.htm

OK Geoff - I think I may have an answer for your mystery experimenter:


>A cheap "digital" voltmeter was connected to the terminals.

 Oh bad show! DIGITAL?  heh...this is a sampling meter! Look at the BIOS
document...yep...standard ANALOG meter! hint: the circuit needs that shunt!

>All sorts of adjustments were made over many days. sometimes the device was
left >to sit for hours after which readings were
>taken.

 Yeah I bet! ;)

>No output was noted.

>The only encouraging observation is that when the sliding coils were moved in
and >out a small voltage was noted but it soon
>disappeared.

 Uhuh..and if the meter was a standard analog resistive-shunt type, that initial

voltage would have charged those capacitors...which would have been the
"priming" energy the circuit needs to get started!

 Try it.

              Cheers!

                    -Erik

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From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Hello All,

Here is an early Christmas gift from me all of you,

http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/perrigo.pdf


         Enjoy!


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 06:37:27 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:31:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Energy from "electron gas"
Message-ID: <19991106.093257.-435371.0.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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>[snip]
>Another possibility is that a Mills style "super-chemistry" reaction 
>is
>involved, where the atoms themselves are collapsing, and supplying
>energy in the process. This would also explain long term deterioration
>of the materials.

	This is testable, maybe someone could look into it?
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 11:09:54 1999
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 11:14:00 1999
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Here is an early Christmas gift from me all of you,
>
> http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/perrigo.pdf
>
>          Enjoy!
>
>         -Bruce A. Perreault

 Gee, Thanks Bruce! This is a highly sought-after artifact, having been
posted to
and removed (for SOME REASON..?) from at least a dozen websites in the
recent past...always without any explaination. Hmm...

 My initial notions about this device include:

 #1) Similar to the Hubbard Coil/Transformer, but seemingly more robust
in terms
of it's pure-reactive potiential. A much more complex transformer
design.

 #2) The input appears to be an aerolytic charge-differentiator circuit,
similar to the
 earliest of the Tesla designs, but of a frequency-determinate nature -
and apparently
 without the need of a standard Earth ground!

 #3) The multi-poled transformer primaries form pulse-gathering
networks, which
 complete many circuits to a common output bus. Hence energies of a very
wide-
 banded nature may be utilized. If I had to guess, it would seem that
this device
 has a central resonance in the 500KHz region, with a gradual linear
taper upward
 to about 5MHz, and a similar taper downward to about 2KHz - perhaps
lower.

 #4) I am left wondering however about Fig 5 and Fig 6; about the
core-materials.
 I.E. - are we really talking about *just* iron? Or did he coat each one
with some
 radioactive material?? Radium paint perhaps? ;)

 Just some random musings...

                        Cheers!

                               -Erik aka KB6LUY

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 15:02:29 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:06:45 EST
Subject: Anyone make their own resistors?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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   I am setting up a force field experiment.  The least of my problems --I 
thought-- was finding a resistor that is non-magnetic (ie. permeability very 
close to 1.0).  It turns out that both carbon and metal film resistors are 
high permeability-- in spite of the aluminum leads.  There may be some type 
of resistors that are non-magnetic but the electronics stores I visited don't 
have them.
   So I thought I would just make my own.  I just need a sheet about 3/4" x 
3/4" x 1/8" that has a edge-to-edge resistance of 100k to 1M that I can 
attach leads to.  Can anyone suggest a good material to use?  I don't care 
much about the actual resistance value,  long term stability, or power 
capability.
                                                                              
            Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 15:29:37 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Energy from "electron gas"
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:00:28 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:31:23 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote:

>>[snip]
>>Another possibility is that a Mills style "super-chemistry" reaction 
>>is
>>involved, where the atoms themselves are collapsing, and supplying
>>energy in the process. This would also explain long term deterioration
>>of the materials.
>
>	This is testable, maybe someone could look into it?
One possible test might be to collect some of the material that has
deteriorated. It should be relatively easy to chemically separate from
"collapsed matter". Furthermore, the "collapsed matter" should be
identifiable as the original by NAA, yet differ chemically and
spectroscopically. I.e. the electron shells are different, yet the
nucleus is the same.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 15:46:39 1999
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Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 23:15:58 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Hello Ken,

Have you tried the graphite sponge used in chips packs?

Good luck, Juan.

Keasy@aol.com escribi:

>    I am setting up a force field experiment.  The least of my problems --I
> thought-- was finding a resistor that is non-magnetic (ie. permeability very
> close to 1.0).  It turns out that both carbon and metal film resistors are
> high permeability-- in spite of the aluminum leads.  There may be some type
> of resistors that are non-magnetic but the electronics stores I visited don't
> have them.
>    So I thought I would just make my own.  I just need a sheet about 3/4" x
> 3/4" x 1/8" that has a edge-to-edge resistance of 100k to 1M that I can
> attach leads to.  Can anyone suggest a good material to use?  I don't care
> much about the actual resistance value,  long term stability, or power
> capability.
>
>             Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 17:50:53 1999
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Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 19:05:50 -0500
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Hey Folks!

How about using this method to channel cloud charge
into a converter? Then store the energy in another
form...

http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn10=US04017767


           -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 17:50:55 1999
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http://home.earthlink.net/~ges32558/ee320.jpg

       -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 18:20:34 1999
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Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 18:12:00 -0500
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Subject: Smoke Detector Pellet Power?
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"The energy supplied by 1 gram of americium is about the same as
       that of 1 ton of the best chemical propellant"

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/power.htm


Couldn't we directly conveet use the resulting ionization
from this process to electrical current? If we can then
we can obtain all the power that we need from smoke
detector pellets!


       -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 18:36:11 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: a brief analysis of the Perrigo Patent (full)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 11:05:23 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 11:13:50 -0800, eks1 wrote:
[snip]
> My initial notions about this device include:
>
> #1) Similar to the Hubbard Coil/Transformer, but seemingly more robust
>in terms
>of it's pure-reactive potiential. A much more complex transformer
>design.
[snip]
Of particular interest is:
"as the electromagnetic force of the transformer is increased to supply
the electromotive force required, the accumulation of the ether waves in
the collector produces an electromotive force of undiminished quantity,
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this result being a new discovery of far reaching benefit to mankind,
involving as it does the inceptive potency of electric energy for all,
purposes, evolved from the general ether wave field of electric medium
by me."

If someone had the patience and the money, this would be an interesting
device to build.
It's a pity the inventor didn't say much about the maximum power output
achieved in practice.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 19:21:43 1999
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From: MATTIARO@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 22:21:21 EST
Subject: Re: Anyone make their own resistors?
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Have you tried a "carbon pile"??
 By the way, you will not get a "nonmagnetic resistor" as long as electrons 
flow through.
 Prior to playing with the carbon pile, I would recommend that you look into 
the "Farady boxes".

  Good luck.
   Matti

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 22:09:54 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone make their own resistors?
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Hi Ken,
At 03:06 PM 11/6/99 EST, you wrote:

>   So I thought I would just make my own.  I just need a sheet about 3/4" x 
>3/4" x 1/8" that has a edge-to-edge resistance of 100k to 1M that I can 
>attach leads to.  Can anyone suggest a good material to use?  I don't care 
>much about the actual resistance value,  long term stability, or power 
>capability.
>
Is it the leads or connections that have steel in them?
                                                      
What about:
damp paper,
paper coated with graphite,
other resistors, such as the resistance element from a pot, or surface
mount units,
silvery static bags for electronics,
cloth washed in anti-static-cling liquid, or
a reverse biased diode.
-Dave


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov  6 23:44:05 1999
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I've got server problems at the moment - only email access.
Anyone here got a minute to email this thing to me ?
I was in the middle of trying to build the Hubbard coil
 and I suspect it may be relevant to what I'm doing...

cheersz,
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Date: 1999 November 07, Sunday 09:37
Subject: Re: a brief analysis of the Perrigo Patent (full)


|On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 11:13:50 -0800, eks1 wrote:
|[snip]
|> My initial notions about this device include:
|>
|> #1) Similar to the Hubbard Coil/Transformer, but seemingly more robust
|>in terms
|>of it's pure-reactive potiential. A much more complex transformer
|>design.
|[snip]
|Of particular interest is:
|"as the electromagnetic force of the transformer is increased to supply
|the electromotive force required, the accumulation of the ether waves in
|the collector produces an electromotive force of undiminished quantity,
|                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|this result being a new discovery of far reaching benefit to mankind,
|involving as it does the inceptive potency of electric energy for all,
|purposes, evolved from the general ether wave field of electric medium
|by me."
|
|If someone had the patience and the money, this would be an interesting
|device to build.
|It's a pity the inventor didn't say much about the maximum power output
|achieved in practice.
|
|Regards,
|
|Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
|
|

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 10:01:50 1999
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Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 13:06:31 -0800
To: jlnlabs@egroups.com
From: Colin Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: T. H. MORAY
Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
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To All,


I realize that there is a patent for his healing tubes with images, but
are there <bold>any</bold> known Moray tubes still in existence? or good
(revealing) pictures of them?


Thanks,


Best,

Colin Quinney

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 10:04:36 1999
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Message-ID: <3825A390.24BE@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 11:06:41 -0500
From: Alik Shereshevsky <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
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Subject: Re: Anyone make their own resistors?
References: <0.48aa0820.2555e455@aol.com>
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Try buying surface mount (SMD) resistors somewhere,
they are mostly ceramic with a thin film of resitive 
material. Digikey may have them at inflated prices.
Normally they cost less than a penny in quantity.

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 13:37:32 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:37:16 EST
Subject: The full and detailled GEET fuel processor diagram.
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

I have updated in my web site with the full and detailled GEET fuel processor 
diagram in colour...

  http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/geetdiag.htm

Enjoy,

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 14:09:07 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:08:47 EST
Subject: Re: Anyone make their own resistors?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 11/6/99 10:10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
ddameron@earthlink.net writes:

> What about:
>  damp paper,
>  paper coated with graphite,
>  other resistors, such as the resistance element from a pot, or surface
>  mount units,
>  silvery static bags for electronics,
>  cloth washed in anti-static-cling liquid, or
>  a reverse biased diode.
>  -Dave
Dave,
    Good ideas --I'll try some of those until I find something that works 
well.
                                                             Thanks           
    Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 16:33:05 1999
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Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:32:09 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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To: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
CC: exotic@casagrande.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
References: <3824E738.4879@cyberportal.net> <gfYkOC=zCqumSedx9uVQ5pNtdQBz@4ax.com>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
>
> It also occurred to me that if ions exist in the air at 
> high voltages, and we know they do, because on a dry sunny
> day there is a considerable voltage gradient in the 
> atmosphere, it should be possible to "encourage" these ions 
> to collect in one spot by providing them with a path to ground 
> that has an extra potential "thrown in."


You must also consider the ground charge too.


>
> Say for example that the air contains positive ions at 3000 
> volts at a height of three meters (I think the gradient is 
> about 1000 Volts /meter?). Now suppose we set up a 3 meter 
> high antenna with load attached such that the bottom of the 
> load is at -100 Volts relative to ground (e.g. battery). 
> Then the voltage across the load will be 3100 volts, 3000 from 
> the air ions, and 100 from the battery. The ions in the air will 
> be drawn toward the antenna, in preference to the ground, because 
> the antenna is even more negative than ground (with no current 
> flowing). 


If you extract the energy from the ground then you do not need a wire
high up. You only need an opposite capacity.


>
> Anyway, it is obvious that you can get 30 times more power out
> than you put in with this method (or even more with a higher antenna).
> This is the sort of power source that ideally matches the little
> electrostatic motor that JLN built.


But there is no tork in these motors.


>
> For a high antenna, one could attach a wire to the wooden stand of a
> high water tank.


With my circuit this problem my be overcome because it is drawing on
the earth energy... not from the sky... it has it's own positive
capacity built up within the circuitry. The Perrigo device did this with
with many inductances. With solid-state componants today we do not have
to suck in these ions with inductance. We can electronically create the
right condition where these free ions are actually pumped by our device.

Moray may have needed the radiation for his semiconductors to switch
fast... however, with our technology today little or do radioactive
dopant is required. We don't have to create our own exotic
semiconductors.
We just go buy them from Radio Shack or order them and recieve them in a
few days by UPS.

The circuits last week posted by Hartmann/Naidin are serverely lacking.
Many things have been over-looked. I do give them an "A" for effort.
However, the circuits as is can can not produce execess power. I have 
been concerned that once this was realized, and no excess power
resulting, 
that the "Holy Grail" would be over-looked once again. So... I am
posting 
this circuit... 

http://www.nuenergy.org/2001.htm

It is only 3/4 complete but it will serve the purpose for today. The
real 
McCoy will be TESTED next July at the Exotic Research Conference. All
circuits
will be open for inspection and I will allow metering of the device.
Keep
in mind that this will be a test and will not constitute "Public use" as
defined.


                -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 16:37:35 1999
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Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:39:05 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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To: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Smoke Detector Pellet Power?
References: <3824B5C0.6B96@cyberportal.net> <nv0kOERWYN8cd2Eq0yzJjQFUO0X9@4ax.com>
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Robin,

So much for that idea... not enough power in these pellets
from what you have pointed out here... So... "another one
bites the dust."


        -BAP



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> First, the Americium referred to above is Am242, whereas smoke detectors
> contain Am241. The method described above relies on neutron capture to
> produce fission. With either isotope, essentially one of two things
> happen when a neutron is captured, either the isotope just gets a bit
> heavier (by one neutron), and emits a gamma ray, or it fissions. The
> chances of either happening are determined by the cross sections for the
> different reaction types. For the two isotopes in question these are as
> follows:
>                                         Am241          Am242
> radiative capture cross section:        600 barns      5500 barns
> fission cross section          :          3 barns      2100 barns
> 
> So, as you can see, Am242 is "hungrier" for neutrons than Am241, but
> note also that for Am242, fission is about half as likely as radiative
> capture, while for Am241, it is only 1/200 th as likely. IOW 199 times
> out of 200, Am241 will just gobble up a neutron and emit a gamma ray,
> instead of fissioning as we would like. Am242 on the other hand, will
> fission 1 time in 2, a much better ratio.
> This means, that Am242 is much to be preferred if you are trying to
> achieve fission, which was the intent of Carlo Rubbia.
> 
> You are the expert on converting radiation to current, note however that
> smoke detector pellets only contain about a micro-curie of Am241, which
> even if you count all the energy released in decaying to Bi209 (the end
> of the line for the Am241 decay chain) @ 50 MeV per atom of Am241, is
> only 5.84 kWatt x seconds, i.e. 1 kW of power for all of 5.84 seconds,
> per smoke detector.
> There just isn't all that much Am241 in a smoke detector. (actually only
> about 0.3 micrograms).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 16:54:23 1999
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Subject: Re: Wireless Power by UV - March 1920
References: <3825C77F.E4F85362@flash.net>
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> 
> I was able to find it last night. But all there was was a front cover of
> a 1920 magazine. There were no links anywhere else. Was there more?


It was posted on eBay... they must have taken it off once the bidding
had closed. Lindsay Publication sells the article in one of their
bookletts for about $7 or $8.


           -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 21:34:55 1999
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From: "p" <markross@xyz.net>
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Subject: Re: The full and detailled GEET fuel processor diagram.
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The1/2 inch steel rod is backwards.
-----Original Message-----
From: JNaudin509@aol.com <JNaudin509@aol.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: The full and detailled GEET fuel processor diagram.


>Dear All,
>
>I have updated in my web site with the full and detailled GEET fuel
processor
>diagram in colour...
>
>  http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/geetdiag.htm
>
>Enjoy,
>
>Best Regards
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
>Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
>eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov  7 22:36:51 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 01:36:01 EST
Subject: Re: The full and detailled GEET fuel processor diagram.
To: markross@xyz.net
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Dans un courrier dat du 08/11/99 06:36:46 Paris, Madrid, markross@xyz.net a 
crit :

> The1/2 inch steel rod is backwards.

In the Geet picture at :

http://www.friend.ly.net/GEET/plans04.jpg

The rounded part of the steel rod is on the left side, as I have shown in my 
diagram, so where is the correct setup ?

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 02:58:15 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 05:59:42 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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To: Roger Burley <RBurley@Synstar.com>
Subject: Re: Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
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Roger Burley wrote:
> 
> Bruce
> In the circuit for the prototype 2001 the 2N3055 will waste a lot
> of energy in heat. If you use a FET drive the circuit will be more 
> efficient.


Yes, I know this. However, it is much easier for people to go to
Radio Shack for a 2N3055 than it is for them to order a IRF540 MOSFET.

There are also other particulars that will become apparent in the 
commercial circuit. Right now my main concern is to show the light
at the end of the tunnel.


          -Bruce A. Perreault








>         All the best Roger
> 
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:   Bruce A. Perreault [SMTP:nuenergy@cyberportal.net]
>         Sent:   08 November 1999 00:32
>         To:     Robin van Spaandonk
>         Cc:     exotic@casagrande.com; freenrg-L@eskimo.com
>         Subject:        Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the
> Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
> 
>         Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>         >
>         <<snip>>
>         >
>         > It also occurred to me that if ions exist in the air at
>         > high voltages, and we know they do, because on a dry sunny
>         > day there is a considerable voltage gradient in the
>         > atmosphere, it should be possible to "encourage" these ions
>         > to collect in one spot by providing them with a path to ground
>         > that has an extra potential "thrown in."
> 
>         You must also consider the ground charge too.
> 
>         >
>         > Say for example that the air contains positive ions at 3000
>         > volts at a height of three meters (I think the gradient is
>         > about 1000 Volts /meter?). Now suppose we set up a 3 meter
>         > high antenna with load attached such that the bottom of the
>         > load is at -100 Volts relative to ground (e.g. battery).
>         > Then the voltage across the load will be 3100 volts, 3000 from
>         > the air ions, and 100 from the battery. The ions in the air will
>         > be drawn toward the antenna, in preference to the ground, because
>         > the antenna is even more negative than ground (with no current
>         > flowing).
> 
>         If you extract the energy from the ground then you do not need a
> wire
>         high up. You only need an opposite capacity.
> 
>         >
>         > Anyway, it is obvious that you can get 30 times more power out
>         > than you put in with this method (or even more with a higher
> antenna).
>         > This is the sort of power source that ideally matches the little
>         > electrostatic motor that JLN built.
> 
>         But there is no tork in these motors.
> 
>         >
>         > For a high antenna, one could attach a wire to the wooden stand of
> a
>         > high water tank.
> 
>         With my circuit this problem my be overcome because it is drawing on
>         the earth energy... not from the sky... it has it's own positive
>         capacity built up within the circuitry. The Perrigo device did this
> with
>         with many inductances. With solid-state componants today we do not
> have
>         to suck in these ions with inductance. We can electronically create
> the
>         right condition where these free ions are actually pumped by our
> device.
> 
>         Moray may have needed the radiation for his semiconductors to switch
>         fast... however, with our technology today little or do radioactive
>         dopant is required. We don't have to create our own exotic
>         semiconductors.
>         We just go buy them from Radio Shack or order them and recieve them
> in a
>         few days by UPS.
> 
>         The circuits last week posted by Hartmann/Naidin are serverely
> lacking.
>         Many things have been over-looked. I do give them an "A" for effort.
>         However, the circuits as is can can not produce execess power. I
> have
>         been concerned that once this was realized, and no excess power
>         resulting,
>         that the "Holy Grail" would be over-looked once again. So... I am
>         posting
>         this circuit...
> 
>         http://www.nuenergy.org/2001.htm
> 
>         It is only 3/4 complete but it will serve the purpose for today. The
>         real
>         McCoy will be TESTED next July at the Exotic Research Conference.
> All
>         circuits
>         will be open for inspection and I will allow metering of the device.
>         Keep
>         in mind that this will be a test and will not constitute "Public
> use" as
>         defined.
> 
>                         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 08:05:16 1999
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Subject: Re: Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
References: <3824E738.4879@cyberportal.net> <gfYkOC=zCqumSedx9uVQ5pNtdQBz@4ax.com> <38261A09.6CD2@cyberportal.net> <th4mOOfoelXIDQoXGuJJC=t8KaqC@4ax.com>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> This is somewhat confusing for me. As far as I can see, an opposite capacity
> implies AC (otherwise the capacitor would become charged in a fraction of a
> second, and stay charged, eliminating the voltage), which in turn assumes that
> an AC "signal" (or power source) is present.


It is the RF background noise that we are utilizing.


>
> You have previously mentioned lightning strokes as the source of power, but the
> normal radio waves emitted by lightning are obviously not very energetic. By
> "obviously", I mean that one usually needs a radio receiver and amplifier to
> even hear them, that doesn't seem like much power to me. Unless of course the
> power is not transmitted by EM. I.e. perhaps a "scalar" or "longitudinal" wave?
> BTW you have also previously stated that lightning has a frequency of about 500
> kHz. Are you aware that this is the mid-frequency used by AM heterodyne
> receivers (540 kHz I think)? I.e. if you were making frequency measurements,
> it's possible that you were picking up some stray radiation from the mid-section
> of an AM receiver, rather than lightning. I suspect (I don't know for a fact),
> that lightning actually generates radio waves over the whole spectrum, which is
> why one can hear it on the radio, irrespective of the station one is tuned to.


Tesla found the 500Khz. storm frequency long ago.


> >
> >With my circuit this problem my be overcome because it is drawing on
> >the earth energy... not from the sky... it has it's own positive
> 
> So you could remove the antenna from the circuit without paying a penalty
> perhaps?


The answer is yes! I have used a spoil of insulated wire.


> 
> >capacity built up within the circuitry. The Perrigo device did this with
> >with many inductances. With solid-state componants today we do not have
> >to suck in these ions with inductance. We can electronically create the
> >right condition where these free ions are actually pumped by our device.
> 
> Unless you can find a way of recombining the free ions with electrons, then I
> don't think you are going to get any free energy. At least not as a consequence
> of attracting ions from ground.


You don't understand because you have not read my recent book.
It is not the static ions... kinetic ions that we are utilizing.


>
> Note, that while there are ions (both + and -) in the ground, they are also in
> balance. I.e. there are just as many of the one as of the other, and furthermore
> they are all mixed up together (just like salt water solution). If you try to
> separate them, then you need to supply energy to separate them (as you would to
> separate any opposite charges).
> In short, it's not at all obvious to me, where you expect to get any free energy
> from.


If they are oscillating then you can tap this energy.


>
> I'm not necessarily saying it isn't there, just that I can't see it.


I hope this helps to clear things up a little for you.


> 
> Given that your only load seems to be a LED, I assume that this is the area in
> which it is only 3/4 complete.


You can put a transformer in it's place if you tweek the capacity.


> 
> Question: How brightly does the LED glow when you remove the antenna, and bypass
> the spark gap with a direct connection to ground?


Very dim... the diodes do not like the pumping frequency.
The noisey gap hetrodynes the frequencies... Now, the diodes
can rectify the beats. 


> 
> IMO a free energy circuit isn't real until it runs without a battery at all.
> (i.e. it needs to be able to power itself from it's own "free energy" - even if
> indirectly). This is why the PERRIGO invention is interesting.


Thy will be done... the commercial device will not require a battery
except to 
prime it.



           -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:36:11 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.298b4558.25588de4@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 15:34:44 EST
Subject: Testing of the LaFonte TMG device
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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On my second web site I have a drawing that shows a transformer cut in half 
with a light in the secondary circuit.
 When the two are moved together by the attraction force between them in 
illustration number 2, the light gets brighter because the device becomes 
more like a conventional transformer. The moving together of the two units is 
a motor action and work is done. But notice that the current INCREASES thru 
the light as the motor action starts.
 In the conventional electric motor in the lower section of the drawing, 
number 3 illustration, has it's shaft held stopped. The current thru the 
light increases due to no back EMF being generated by the stopped rotor 
shaft, but no work is done by the motor.
 Now notice if you let the shaft turn on the motor in number 4 illustration, 
the current to the light decreases due to back EMF created by the motor's 
rotor turning. 
 The TMG device does work in motor action but at the same time current 
INCREASES  thru the light.
If you do not understand basic transformer theory or AC motor theory, this 
will be hard to appreciate. I suggest a book ELECTRICITY 1-7, I can give 
information on where to get it if you email me.
But then I may still have a lot to learn about these principles. More testing 
will tell.
See site at:  <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com//phantom1948/site2.html">LAFONT
E RESEARCH SITE 2</A>  or  http://hometown.aol.com//phantom1948/site2.html
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 16:06:45 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Cc: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Subject: Radon?
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 18:42:37 -0500
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>So much for that idea... not enough power in these pellets
>from what you have pointed out here... So... "another one
>bites the dust."

What about Radon?  In my part of the world we have to much
of it.  At work today a fellow said his house had a reading
of "42", where a "4" is considered bad.  I don't know what
units those numbers are in.

He paid $1200 to install a system to get the stuff out of
his house.


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 16:19:38 1999
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References: <3824B5C0.6B96@cyberportal.net>
	 <nv0kOERWYN8cd2Eq0yzJjQFUO0X9@4ax.com> <38261BA9.76A9@cyberportal.net> <t/1J4UQy8k8R092yn@csonline.net>
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Bob Paddock wrote:
> 
> What about Radon? In my part of the world we have to much
> of it. At work today a fellow said his house had a reading
> of "42", where a "4" is considered bad. I don't know what
> units those numbers are in.


Radon and thoron are another matter. Where is this house located?
This is an indication that he is sitting on some pretty hot ore!


> 
> He paid $1200 to install a system to get the stuff out of
> his house.


They did not get rid of it... they mitigated the gas... it is
redirected.


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 16:32:55 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
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Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:23:38 -0500
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>> What about Radon? In my part of the world we have to much
>> of it. At work today a fellow said his house had a reading
>> of "42", where a "4" is considered bad. I don't know what
>> units those numbers are in.
>
>
>Radon and thoron are another matter. Where is this house located?

Near Exit-6 of Interstate-80 in Pennsylvania.  It is not
unique to his house, it is a regional problem here.

>> He paid $1200 to install a system to get the stuff out of
>> his house.
>
>They did not get rid of it... they mitigated the gas... it is
>redirected.

I didn't say they got rid of it, I said they got it out of
the house.  I think he said they put it in to some type of
chimney, probably so it can blow over on the NEXT house... I
can ask him tomorrow if you want to know for sure, I was
paying more attention to my job at that point that what he
was saying.

The question remains is this stuff useful for any thing?

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 18:20:23 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:18:18 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:19:11 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

>Bob Paddock wrote:
>> 
>> What about Radon? In my part of the world we have to much
>> of it. At work today a fellow said his house had a reading
>> of "42", where a "4" is considered bad. I don't know what
>> units those numbers are in.
>
>
>Radon and thoron are another matter. Where is this house located?
>This is an indication that he is sitting on some pretty hot ore!

I would still like to know what units the "42" and "4" refer to.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov  8 21:14:38 1999
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>I would still like to know what units the "42" and "4" refer to.
>[snip]

the whole poop... or at least that what "they" clame...  8^)~

Radon Mititgation Standards
URL: http://www.epa.gov./RadonPubs/mitstds.html
Summary: Office of Air and Radiation (6604-J) EPA 402-R-93-078 October 1993 
Revised April 1994 Radon Mitigation Standards (RMS) The U.S. Environmental 
Protection Agency (EPA) strives to provide accurate, complete, and useful 
information.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:27:49 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 21:14:26 PST, Timothy Flytcher wrote:

>
>>I would still like to know what units the "42" and "4" refer to.
>>[snip]
>
>the whole poop... or at least that what "they" clame...  8^)~
>
>Radon Mititgation Standards
>URL: http://www.epa.gov./RadonPubs/mitstds.html
[snip]
Thanks much. According to http://www.epa.gov./RadonPubs/citguide.html#results ,
it is expressed in pC/L (i.e. pico-Curie per liter).

1 pC/L = 0.037 decays/sec/Liter (of air in the measured room).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 00:40:13 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 19:39:58 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:27:49 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
Replying to myself :)
[snip]
>Thanks much. According to http://www.epa.gov./RadonPubs/citguide.html#results ,
>it is expressed in pC/L (i.e. pico-Curie per liter).
>
>1 pC/L = 0.037 decays/sec/Liter (of air in the measured room).
[snip]
This means that in a basement that is 10 X 20 X 8 ft, if one took all the Rn222
in the air (assuming that high reading of 42), at any one time, and could decay
it all the way down to Pb (lead), the total energy available (at 30 MeV / Rn
atom) would be 0.161 joules (or 161 milli-watt for 1 second).
(Just to give a feel for how useful the Rn in the air would be as a power
source).
I suspect one could do a lot better from the bio-energy in one's trash.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:10:43 1999
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To: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com
Subject: Re: Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
References: <3824E738.4879@cyberportal.net> <gfYkOC=zCqumSedx9uVQ5pNtdQBz@4ax.com> <38261A09.6CD2@cyberportal.net> <th4mOOfoelXIDQoXGuJJC=t8KaqC@4ax.com> <3826F504.5F81@cyberportal.net> <38273007.A6FF2DA1@sinectis.com.ar>
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Juan de la Cruz Barrios wrote:
> 
> What kind of transformer?  Air core ?


Yes... air-core... a ferrite would work better.


> 
> No in my set up! This lit very bright, without a spark gap 
> nor antenna.


You must be using a very small LED. To get a nice hefty spark
you will need the ant. and ground, unless you are doing something
different that I do not know about.


It was mentioned in an earlier post that it would take as much
energy to pull in the ions to the circuit from the ground as
what you get from them. Let me ask you this... How does a freon
based heat pump work? Can we apply the same to our electronic
ion pump? The best part is that there are no mechanical losses
to be concerned with in our electronic system.



         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:11:41 1999
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Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org

martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com wrote:
> 
> Is that the same for the ignition coil. You have all but implied
> that an ignition coil is 'the devils own' for this.


Yes... this will work on an ignition coil too.
If I say to use a flyback transformer then we
would have to get into the special winding.


> 
> Would the IRF540 need any kind of heat sink?


Yes... a heat sink should be used as a precaution.
When the device is running properly the fet remains
cold.


          -BAP


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 13:46:08 1999
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From: Allan Alderson <adsaa@nobbys.net.au>
Subject: Test Only
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Test Only
Am I here yet? 
After a huge problem getting my new address to stop bouncing email, did I
finally make it?
P.S. What happened to the torsion list? (vortex C L)
P.S.S. What are you doing reading this 'go-nowhere' mail? Shouldn't you be
in the workshop/Iab/shed twisting wires together?

      -  Allan.
---- ---- ---- ----
Reply with your 'text-only' message to: adsaa@nobbys.net.au

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 14:03:23 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:11:34 -0500
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Robin writes:
>This means that in a basement that is 10 X 20 X 8 ft, if one took all the Rn222
>in the air (assuming that high reading of 42), at any one time, and could decay
>it all the way down to Pb (lead), the total energy available (at 30 MeV / Rn
>atom) would be 0.161 joules (or 161 milli-watt for 1 second).
>(Just to give a feel for how useful the Rn in the air would be as a power
>source).
>I suspect one could do a lot better from the bio-energy in one's trash.

That's true for the normal Alpha decay that occurs in most of the isotopes
of Rn, but in any fission reaction involving any material, the energy
released will be much, much greater.  It just depends on how you crack the
atom as to whether or not it is economical to use as an energy source.  I
don't have any refs handy at the moment, but I'm pretty certain that even at
the low Alpha decay energy levels that you are quoting, Rn has been found to
cause genetic mutation and cancer when taken into the lungs over a period of
time.  I would still treat it with a certain degree of respect.

I don't know of any studies that have been done regarding the energies that
might be released when Rn is present in water being microwaved, for example.
In my Seattle apartment, I had a wonderful free source of yellowcake, and a
microwave oven all in the same room.  I wish now that I done some simple
time and temperature comparisons for heat energy between normal tap water,
distilled water, and water doped with Rn gas.  That would have been quite
easy to do safely, I think, and it would have been informative.  If anyone
wants to try that, we could discuss a good, safe protocol.

There is also the type of reaction that R. Mills is proposing can be made to
happen in simple H without fission or even Alpha decay.  The gross heat
energy release is evidently not apparent in great quantities, but the
resultant change in the materials is definitely there.  I think that there
are many things yet to be learned that will someday allow us to hold the
power of say, a bulldozer, for example, in our hands in a safe and usable
form.  Till then, I'd ventilate that basement. :)

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 15:26:06 1999
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Yes, Alan-you have arrived. I saw your email.  Agree with you there is a lot
of talk which goes nowhere.  As for myself, I became very interested in the
Hawkes counterwound toroidal antenna discussed here late this summer.  I
contacted the inventor and bought two of them. I would like to use them in
an experiment as "Rogers" underground or subsurface radio antennas to see
how they perform. Inventor JH Rogers in WWI period claimed that QRM or noise
was almost completely absent from antenna tested in what what is today 180
meter amateur band.  I would like to see this. Its a long haul=first I want
to use our club station here in Rochester and run these antennas under
optimal conditions-at 2kwPEPxmtr,ith automatic antenna tuner.  awkes claims
that shielding that would render a normal Hertzian antenna nonfuctional does
not affect the Hawkes. This we will see-the amateur club is inside the
Monroe County Office Building, a steel,brick and glass modernist structure
about twelve stories tall. If my memory serves me well the club station is
on the first floor. If i can lay the Hawkes antenna on the floor there,
connect it to our transceiver, and get out- something very unusual here is
happening... This takes time.  Then, the next step is to show it to perhaps
some other amateurs and see what they say... Burying this antenna
underground to see what it would do as per the old Rogers experiments will
probably have to wait until the spring, due to hardening of the ground from
approaching winter conditions.  If the Rogers Experimets really work, what
does this say about some accepted paradigms in modern physics? References:
pp.136 ELECTRICAL EXPERIMENTER June. 1919
The Rogers Underground Aerial for Amateurs  Specially Prepared with the
Collaboration of Mr. James Harris Rogers. Also: US Patent 1,315,862- "Radio
Signalling System" It certainly is not 'free energy', but its do-able and
the results might be interesting and surprising...
felis catus  felis@frontiernet.net  11/09/99


-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Alderson <adsaa@nobbys.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 4:54 PM
Subject: Test Only


>Test Only
>Am I here yet?
>After a huge problem getting my new address to stop bouncing email, did I
>finally make it?
>P.S. What happened to the torsion list? (vortex C L)
>P.S.S. What are you doing reading this 'go-nowhere' mail? Shouldn't you be
>in the workshop/Iab/shed twisting wires together?
>
>      -  Allan.
>---- ---- ---- ----
>Reply with your 'text-only' message to: adsaa@nobbys.net.au
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 16:13:55 1999
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Subject: Strange antennas (was Re: Test Only)
From: Rick Monteverde <rick@highsurf.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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There was a gal on Art Bell's show a while ago (oh keep reading, they're not
all bad, though most are <g>) who did deep cave spelunking and described a
portable communication system they used which would work through *miles* of
rock. I forget the principle and the details, but the link to caving might
be a clue to more information on such systems.

I think buildings (or caves) that filter out most EM don't always filter out
all, like very short bursts or ELF. So reception through such shields
doesn't necessarily mean an anomalous scalar or longitudinal wave is the
transport medium - nor, I suppose, that it isn't. I just don't think it's
the definitive test.


<snip>
I would like to use them in
> an experiment as "Rogers" underground or subsurface radio antennas to see
> how they perform. Inventor JH Rogers in WWI period claimed that QRM or noise
> was almost completely absent from antenna tested in what what is today 180
> meter amateur band.
<snip>


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 16:17:35 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:13:59 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:11:34 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote:
[snip]
>>it all the way down to Pb (lead), the total energy available (at 30 MeV / Rn
[snip]
>That's true for the normal Alpha decay that occurs in most of the isotopes
>of Rn, but in any fission reaction involving any material, the energy
>released will be much, much greater.  

Note that in the calc. above, I allowed for all the decays down to lead,
releasing 30 MeV / Rn atom. Even if one were to substitute fission, the total
energy release per atom would only be about 131 MeV, or about 4 times as much
(i.e. 160 mW for 4 seconds ;).

>It just depends on how you crack the
>atom as to whether or not it is economical to use as an energy source.  

No, actually it depends on where you get the Rn. If you have a concentrated
supply it is worth it. But the supply previously discussed above isn't, because
it would take more energy to collect the gas, than you would get out of it.

>I
>don't have any refs handy at the moment, but I'm pretty certain that even at
>the low Alpha decay energy levels that you are quoting, Rn has been found to
>cause genetic mutation and cancer when taken into the lungs over a period of
>time.  I would still treat it with a certain degree of respect.

I agree that for medical reasons it should always be treated with respect.
I was only pointing out that as a pure energy source, basements full of Radon
just aren't worth it.
[snip]
>There is also the type of reaction that R. Mills is proposing can be made to
>happen in simple H without fission or even Alpha decay.  The gross heat
>energy release is evidently not apparent in great quantities, but the
>resultant change in the materials is definitely there.  I think that there
>are many things yet to be learned that will someday allow us to hold the
>power of say, a bulldozer, for example, in our hands in a safe and usable
>form.  Till then, I'd ventilate that basement. :)
[snip]
I already suggested to Blacklightpower a couple of weeks back that they try Rn
in He as a catalyst.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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>From what I recall of "Cave-Comm" it uses  VLF, the problem there being that
effeciency would have been minimal, if you trailed out behind you a suitable
length of antenna, then you might just as well hook up a 'phone to each end
of the
wire.

 Yes these systems do work, but there must be a better way.

 As I have only just returned to the list(s), just want to add a big hello
to
my fellow researchers, ( Hey Rick - How's the "Island" these days ) ? !!


 Experimenting with Cad' coils for a D.F system, seems to work - but due to
the
limited "capture area" - very inefficient - when trying to locate "normal"
(as in
E field ) signals, very nciely directional though, albeit with a 180 degree
ambiguity
of direction - but this has always been a problem, even with Shielded loop
antenna
systems, hey that's an idea - I might try applying similar principles - i.e
shielding
 and just leaving the open (non-shorted turn) aligned along the plane of the
nodal points on
the "cad'" coil.

 'Later gang.

      Glenville.   ( In South Australia)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 17:00:37 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Cc: hheffner@mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Moray Device & additional requirements needed in the Hartmann/Naudin Circuits
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:00:22 +1100
Organization: Improving
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References: <3824E738.4879@cyberportal.net> <gfYkOC=zCqumSedx9uVQ5pNtdQBz@4ax.com> <38261A09.6CD2@cyberportal.net> <th4mOOfoelXIDQoXGuJJC=t8KaqC@4ax.com> <3826F504.5F81@cyberportal.net> <38273007.A6FF2DA1@sinectis.com.ar> <382839C7.3CB1@cyberportal.net>
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On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:12:07 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
[snip]
>It was mentioned in an earlier post that it would take as much
>energy to pull in the ions to the circuit from the ground as
>what you get from them. Let me ask you this... How does a freon
>based heat pump work? Can we apply the same to our electronic
>ion pump? The best part is that there are no mechanical losses
>to be concerned with in our electronic system.

In a heat pump system, an application of energy (say E) is used to pump an
amount of heat (say X) from one place to another. Both E and X are dumped at the
dump site. Whereas when ions are pumped, one is forced to leave potential energy
in the form of separated charges behind at the source site.
At least this is what I was referring to when I wrote the original email.

Since then, you have however said that you are making use of the kinetic energy
of "fast" ions. This may actually be possible, though I would suspect that a
magnetic field would need to be involved somewhere, in order to bring about some
form of separation without actually doing any work yourself. I.e. using the
kinetic energy (or heat if you prefer) of the ions themselves to perform the
separation. Once separated they would constitute an electric potential. I.e. you
would have created a battery that produced electric current while getting cold.

I still don't see any elements of such a setup in your device however.
Note that the magnetic field is important, because it ensures a force
perpendicular to the movement of the ions. This means that the force (i.e. the
magnetic field) does no work, so that any work done must come from the heat
energy of the ions themselves. Separation by an electric field doesn't work,
because the field is aligned with the force on the particles, so that the
electric field itself does work in separating them.
(Work = force x distance x cos angle between them. Cos 90 = 0).

There are still huge problems. E.g. the ions will all be moving randomly, so a
magnetic field probably still won't result in a separation. (Non-uniform field
perhaps, though I think this scenario was pretty thoroughly covered by Horace
Heffner when he first introduced it on Vortex-L, and I don't remember him coming
up with a solution at the time. Horace please correct me if I'm wrong).
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Hi Glenville,

>
> Experimenting with Cad' coils for a D.F system, seems to work - but due to
>the
>limited "capture area" - very inefficient - when trying to locate "normal"
>(as in
>E field ) signals, very nciely directional though, albeit with a 180 degree
>ambiguity
>of direction

Meaning that the real direction is 180 degree off the coil axis?

Good to see somebody doing things with cad coils...

Fred

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov  9 22:13:40 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:22:12 -0500
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Robin wrote:
>Note that in the calc. above, I allowed for all the decays down to lead,
>releasing 30 MeV / Rn atom. Even if one were to substitute fission, the total
>energy release per atom would only be about 131 MeV, or about 4 times as much
>(i.e. 160 mW for 4 seconds ;).

You're no doubt right when counting singular fission events per atom.  I
think that there are, under certain circumstances such as ball lightning
events, possibly cavitation bubble collapses, and some arcing
configurations, conditions that would allow the atom to be cracked into more
than two components or for multiple nuclear reactions to occur with the same
materials.  Under these circumstances more of an energy release could be
possible than the given book value.

>No, actually it depends on where you get the Rn. If you have a concentrated
>supply it is worth it. But the supply previously discussed above isn't, because
>it would take more energy to collect the gas, than you would get out of it.

That's true too, but I've seen Rn measurements taken different ways
depending on the circumstances (like who is buying, and who is selling
what), and there are places where the local concentration can be quite high
even when the overall levels may be acceptably low.  The old scare tactic
for people selling Rn remediation schemes was to do a swipe on the furnace
filter.  The readings would  be much higher there than in the basement as whole.

Another perhaps more interesting example would be in a sump pump pit, which
is not uncommon in many basements.  Since Rn is heavier than air, it seeks
the lowest level in a stagnant room.  In this case, a condition exists
where, not only would the Rn level be at its highest, it would also be
subjected to cavitation bubble collapse in certain kinds of pumps.

As it happens, I've seen some sump pump rotors that have had to be replaced
repeatedly after only a couple months of use in some homes, and the same
types of rotor last for years in other places.  I never put the two things
together until I started doing energy experiments, but Rn might be a factor.
IOW, if you have to change your rotor more than normal, and you've already
designed to accommodate for the usual reasons for rotor failure, like
dissimilar metals, etc., do a Rn check in the sump pit just for the heck of
it.  The rotor failure may be due to a thousand different chemical reasons,
or it could be from Rn.  In any event, if I was eating up sump pump rotors
faster than normal, I would probably not pump that water into the vegetable
garden. :)

>I already suggested to Blacklightpower a couple of weeks back that they try Rn
>in He as a catalyst.

No kidding?  I've been jumping around in my reading, and haven't been
following most of the threads as closely as I would like.  I suggested to
Scott Little some months back that he throw some nuke material into that
Mizuno sparky cell that he was building, but I don't know if he ever did.
You've got to be careful with that stuff, but I think that the end product
might be some new materials with interesting properties.  It would not
necessarily be a useable energy device, but it would open up a whole new
method of exploration for the creation of novel materials.  Cavitation
science is like that now, but again, I haven't seen any reporting on Rn.  I
think that if you cavitated mercury doped with Rn, for example, you might
get very small quantities of Au or Pt.  You might get something even better,
but you probably would just get something that you can't throw down the
drain. ;)

Did BLP respond to your suggestion?

Knuke


Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 00:04:20 1999
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From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Strange antennas (was Re: Test Only)
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Hi Fred, No basically the "sensitive region" is along the coil axis - like
you point
the tube at the station, but the ambiguity is from the fact that the signal
could be from either the direction the tube is pointing, OR 180 degrees away
(as in from the direction of your arm).

 Fixed a similar problem years ago with LOOP antennas/ by adding a shortened
(wavelength
wise that is) "Sense" whip - Capacitively coupled to the centre of the
coax - used this quite
successfully on the 80M band (3.5 Mhz) also on 28-29.7 (the current default
Russian
Taxi band - UGHHHH) !

 cheers to all.

 Glenville.


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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Radon?
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:24:18 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:22:12 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote:
[snip]
>As it happens, I've seen some sump pump rotors that have had to be replaced
>repeatedly after only a couple months of use in some homes, and the same
>types of rotor last for years in other places.  I never put the two things
>together until I started doing energy experiments, but Rn might be a factor.

If the resultant alpha particles act as a Mills style catalyst, as I suspect
they might, then you could be right. Such a reaction might multiply the
available energy manyfold.
[snip]
>>I already suggested to Blacklightpower a couple of weeks back that they try Rn
>>in He as a catalyst.
>
>No kidding?  I've been jumping around in my reading, and haven't been
>following most of the threads as closely as I would like.  I suggested to

I made the suggestion in private email to one of the board members, who
responded favourably, though I don't know what sort of a reception Mills himself
would give the idea.
[snip]
>I think that if you cavitated mercury doped with Rn, for example, you might
>get very small quantities of Au or Pt.  You might get something even better,
>but you probably would just get something that you can't throw down the
>drain. ;)

Once again, I suspect that to get much of anything interesting you may need to
invoke a Mills style reaction.

This gives me another idea....;).
(Must make inquiries first).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 01:35:22 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Strange antennas (was Re: Test Only)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:22:38 -0800
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Hi Glenville,


>Hi Fred, No basically the "sensitive region" is along the coil axis - like
>you point
>the tube at the station, but the ambiguity is from the fact that the signal
>could be from either the direction the tube is pointing, OR 180 degrees
away
>(as in from the direction of your arm).

Oh, right, of course :-)

>Russian
>Taxi band - UGHHHH) !

Hard to imagine.. and I don't want to :-)


Regards,
Fred


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 10:03:55 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:05:55 -0500
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Here is more CTHA stuff:

http://www.antennex.com/

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 10:15:05 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:14:42 EST
Subject: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Check out this link and see how secure your computer is? It only takes a few 
minutes.
Butch LaFonte
 <A HREF="http://www.grc.com/default.htm">Gibson Research Corporation Homepage
</A>   or   http://www.grc.com/default.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 11:28:15 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Plasma as Amplifier
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:29:42 -0600
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We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective in
the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna both
with and without a plasma in series.
It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
charge than the simple wire antenna.

http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm




Rex A.

Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 12:44:27 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
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Subject: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:16:53 -0600
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Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
units, Bruce ?

I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
advantage.

You can see what we discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm

Rex A.


Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 12:46:27 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:46:08 EST
Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier
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Dans un courrier dat du 10/11/99 20:35:59 Paris, Madrid, techlab@atgroup.org 
a crit :

> We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective in
>  the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna both
>  with and without a plasma in series.
>  It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
>  charge than the simple wire antenna.
>  
>  http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm

Thanks for your post and updates, but one question..., why you don't post a 
simple experiment and reproducible diagram that anyone can perform easily at 
home before asking for some $$ ?

This seems so simple to post this on the web...and this will prove definitely 
that your technology worth to be developped deeply...

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 13:50:34 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:17:27 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:16:53 -0600, techlab wrote:

>Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
>units, Bruce ?
>
>I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
>proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
>advantage.
>
>You can see what we discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
All I can see at this site is some claims, and pretty pictures.
Not proof of anything.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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techlab schrieb:
> 
> Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
> units, Bruce ?
> 
> I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
> proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
> advantage.
> 
> You can see what we discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> 
> Rex A.

How are you going to amplify the power ?

I just see an increase in input current,
so you also put more input power into the driver !

Is the light output via the incandescant light bulb and the xenon tube 
bigger than the difference in additional input power ?

If this is true, maybe you use a special Correa- or Chernetski-type 
self generation plasma discharge effect ?!

This is probably also the mechanism inside the commutator spark gap of
the
Newman machine for negative current spike power generation.

> 
> Advanced Technology Group
> www.atgroup.org

-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 14:39:14 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: "Free Energy" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Fw: Plasma as Amplifier
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:41:47 -0600
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Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org
----- Original Message -----
From: techlab <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: <JNaudin509@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier


> Gee! Because you will take and run with it, disregarding the people that
did
> some of the initial work.
>
> Sorry, guess you have had all these idea's and been working on them for
> years ?
>
> At least we offer credit to our predictors and not predators.
>
> Rex A.
>
> Advanced Technology Group
> www.atgroup.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JNaudin509@aol.com>
> To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Cc: <techlab@atgroup.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 2:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier
>
>
> > Dans un courrier dat du 10/11/99 20:35:59 Paris, Madrid,
> techlab@atgroup.org
> > a crit :
> >
> > > We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective
> in
> > >  the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter
antenna
> both
> > >  with and without a plasma in series.
> > >  It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in
collecting
> > >  charge than the simple wire antenna.
> > >
> > >  http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> >
> > Thanks for your post and updates, but one question..., why you don't
post
> a
> > simple experiment and reproducible diagram that anyone can perform
easily
> at
> > home before asking for some $$ ?
> >
> > This seems so simple to post this on the web...and this will prove
> definitely
> > that your technology worth to be developped deeply...
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> >
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 14:53:00 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>, "Newman-L Mailing List" <newman-l@emachine.com>
References: <001501bf2bb8$8897f4a0$17d3fea9@agent> <3829F333.F22908DF@harti.com>
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:55:24 -0600
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Will be happy to answer some of your questions when I receive payment for
the check is in the mail game, covering the CD you downloaded on FAITH in
mankind.

Ron S.


Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; techlab <techlab@atgroup.org>; atg0317
<atg0317@wt.net>; Newman-L Mailing List <newman-l@emachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's


>
>
> techlab schrieb:
> >
> > Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
> > units, Bruce ?
> >
> > I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
> > proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
> > advantage.
> >
> > You can see what we discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> >
> > Rex A.
>
> How are you going to amplify the power ?
>
> I just see an increase in input current,
> so you also put more input power into the driver !
>
> Is the light output via the incandescant light bulb and the xenon tube
> bigger than the difference in additional input power ?
>
> If this is true, maybe you use a special Correa- or Chernetski-type
> self generation plasma discharge effect ?!
>
> This is probably also the mechanism inside the commutator spark gap of
> the
> Newman machine for negative current spike power generation.
>
> >
> > Advanced Technology Group
> > www.atgroup.org
>
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 15:27:27 1999
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Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:52:14 -0600
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Well Robin! What can I say at least we have not taken anyone's money and ran
like one of your countrymen, maybe the name SMOT was a key to a worthwhile
technology. We may sell a CD, but to date I have not received a complaint
that it was not worth the price, not that it's anyone's business, but the
number of CD's covering our work exceed your fingers and toes.

In fact we have been bilked by some of the subscribers to the list, trust is
one thing but stupidity is another would you not say.

Always thought the old saying a picture was worth a thousand words still
held.

Keep up the criticism it only make me laugh harder.

Ron. S.

Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's


> On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:16:53 -0600, techlab wrote:
>
> >Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
> >units, Bruce ?
> >
> >I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
> >proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
> >advantage.
> >
> >You can see what we discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> All I can see at this site is some claims, and pretty pictures.
> Not proof of anything.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 17:36:57 1999
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techlab wrote:
> 
> We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective in
> the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna both
> with and without a plasma in series.
> It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
> charge than the simple wire antenna.


Yes... plasma in many forms will increase the collection of charge.
In 1925 Hermann Plausen proved this with his patent. Alpha particles
used for this is the best why do go in my opinion because it does not
require battery power.


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 17:39:59 1999
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techlab wrote:
> 
> Maybe our plasma amplifier is similar to Bruce A. Perreaults 'Star Mode'
> units, Bruce?


Star-mode effects efficient switching of a charged capacitor to
a tank circuit. It offers near perfect ion recombination.


> 
> I admit I have not read the book produced by Bruce (doubt he provides
> proprietary info), yet I would think maybe a gaseous plasma would be an
> advantage.


Radon or thoron gas are very advantagous. I will go into this
further in my next posts.


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 17:55:42 1999
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Robin,

Let me ask you this... if I have a one curie source of
radiothorium... have the alpha particles target a negatively
charged berylium wire... what is the amount of released
energy that will result? Bearing in mind that a fusion reaction
is occuring with the release of one neutron per disintergration.


          -Bruce A. Perreault




Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:11:34 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote:
> [snip]
> >>it all the way down to Pb (lead), the total energy available (at 30 MeV / Rn
> [snip]
> >That's true for the normal Alpha decay that occurs in most of the isotopes
> >of Rn, but in any fission reaction involving any material, the energy
> >released will be much, much greater.
> 
> Note that in the calc. above, I allowed for all the decays down to lead,
> releasing 30 MeV / Rn atom. Even if one were to substitute fission, the total
> energy release per atom would only be about 131 MeV, or about 4 times as much
> (i.e. 160 mW for 4 seconds ;).
> 
> >It just depends on how you crack the
> >atom as to whether or not it is economical to use as an energy source.
> 
> No, actually it depends on where you get the Rn. If you have a concentrated
> supply it is worth it. But the supply previously discussed above isn't, because
> it would take more energy to collect the gas, than you would get out of it.
> 
> >I
> >don't have any refs handy at the moment, but I'm pretty certain that even at
> >the low Alpha decay energy levels that you are quoting, Rn has been found to
> >cause genetic mutation and cancer when taken into the lungs over a period of
> >time.  I would still treat it with a certain degree of respect.
> 
> I agree that for medical reasons it should always be treated with respect.
> I was only pointing out that as a pure energy source, basements full of Radon
> just aren't worth it.
> [snip]
> >There is also the type of reaction that R. Mills is proposing can be made to
> >happen in simple H without fission or even Alpha decay.  The gross heat
> >energy release is evidently not apparent in great quantities, but the
> >resultant change in the materials is definitely there.  I think that there
> >are many things yet to be learned that will someday allow us to hold the
> >power of say, a bulldozer, for example, in our hands in a safe and usable
> >form.  Till then, I'd ventilate that basement. :)
> [snip]
> I already suggested to Blacklightpower a couple of weeks back that they try Rn
> in He as a catalyst.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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Robin,

If you can not see where the energy is coming from
by now then you probably will never see it. I do not
wish to get into a lengthy technical back and forth
debate. I have published all of the details. I know
that this techonology works. I do not need to prove
anymore at this point. It is excepted or it is not.
In any case I am not going to lose anymore sleep
over it.


     -Bruce A. Perreault


Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:12:07 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> [snip]
> >It was mentioned in an earlier post that it would take as much
> >energy to pull in the ions to the circuit from the ground as
> >what you get from them. Let me ask you this... How does a freon
> >based heat pump work? Can we apply the same to our electronic
> >ion pump? The best part is that there are no mechanical losses
> >to be concerned with in our electronic system.
> 
> In a heat pump system, an application of energy (say E) is used to pump an
> amount of heat (say X) from one place to another. Both E and X are dumped at the
> dump site. Whereas when ions are pumped, one is forced to leave potential energy
> in the form of separated charges behind at the source site.
> At least this is what I was referring to when I wrote the original email.
> 
> Since then, you have however said that you are making use of the kinetic energy
> of "fast" ions. This may actually be possible, though I would suspect that a
> magnetic field would need to be involved somewhere, in order to bring about some
> form of separation without actually doing any work yourself. I.e. using the
> kinetic energy (or heat if you prefer) of the ions themselves to perform the
> separation. Once separated they would constitute an electric potential. I.e. you
> would have created a battery that produced electric current while getting cold.
> 
> I still don't see any elements of such a setup in your device however.
> Note that the magnetic field is important, because it ensures a force
> perpendicular to the movement of the ions. This means that the force (i.e. the
> magnetic field) does no work, so that any work done must come from the heat
> energy of the ions themselves. Separation by an electric field doesn't work,
> because the field is aligned with the force on the particles, so that the
> electric field itself does work in separating them.
> (Work = force x distance x cos angle between them. Cos 90 = 0).
> 
> There are still huge problems. E.g. the ions will all be moving randomly, so a
> magnetic field probably still won't result in a separation. (Non-uniform field
> perhaps, though I think this scenario was pretty thoroughly covered by Horace
> Heffner when he first introduced it on Vortex-L, and I don't remember him coming
> up with a solution at the time. Horace please correct me if I'm wrong).
> [snip]
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 18:08:22 1999
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Robin,

It is my feeling that Blacklight has created helium compounds.
My only complaint with them is that they should make full public
disclosure. If you had read my book you would have seen that
radon is a complex Helium-5 molecule. This type of helium is a
catalyst with some very wonderful effects.


           -Bruce A. Perreault




Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:22:12 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote:
> [snip]
> >As it happens, I've seen some sump pump rotors that have had to be replaced
> >repeatedly after only a couple months of use in some homes, and the same
> >types of rotor last for years in other places.  I never put the two things
> >together until I started doing energy experiments, but Rn might be a factor.
> 
> If the resultant alpha particles act as a Mills style catalyst, as I suspect
> they might, then you could be right. Such a reaction might multiply the
> available energy manyfold.
> [snip]
> >>I already suggested to Blacklightpower a couple of weeks back that they try Rn
> >>in He as a catalyst.
> >
> >No kidding?  I've been jumping around in my reading, and haven't been
> >following most of the threads as closely as I would like.  I suggested to
> 
> I made the suggestion in private email to one of the board members, who
> responded favourably, though I don't know what sort of a reception Mills himself
> would give the idea.
> [snip]
> >I think that if you cavitated mercury doped with Rn, for example, you might
> >get very small quantities of Au or Pt.  You might get something even better,
> >but you probably would just get something that you can't throw down the
> >drain. ;)
> 
> Once again, I suspect that to get much of anything interesting you may need to
> invoke a Mills style reaction.
> 
> This gives me another idea....;).
> (Must make inquiries first).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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>Check out this link and see how secure your computer is? It only takes a 
>few
>minutes.
>Butch LaFonte
It really doesn't matter how much you spend for protection... If your on the 
net your public... and anyone with the right codes has total access!!! Just 
except it and go on... Big brother is watching and he can see everything...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 20:52:09 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 06:51:23 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
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Hi Rex and All,

I would take your attention to parasitic capacitors of components, leads, and of the bread-board, while making measurements. capacitive currents for 2500V 85 kHz is same the 2.5V 85 MHz. So few pF's may carry many miliamps. So it may be careful to not cha


nge these parasitic capacitance while inserting/removing components, using more or less bread-board contacts in order to comparing measurements results.

I had also observed some apparent efficiency increase, while driving my coils trough an neon bulb at RF. But results become not conclusive or significant after increasing number of experiments. What I would say is plasmas does not reduce the efficiency, a


t least.

Regards,

hamdi

 

techlab wrote:

> We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective in
> the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna both
> with and without a plasma in series.
> It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
> charge than the simple wire antenna.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 21:04:47 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:56:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Timothy Flytcher wrote:

> >Check out this link and see how secure your computer is? It only takes a 
> >few
> >minutes.
> >Butch LaFonte
> It really doesn't matter how much you spend for protection... If your on the 
> net your public... and anyone with the right codes has total access!!! Just 
> except it and go on... Big brother is watching and he can see everything...
> 

There are two obvious solutions to this: 
1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do in 
this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 22:20:43 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 01:29:15 -0500
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Zack writes:
>There are two obvious solutions to this: 
>1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do in 
>this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
>2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.
>
>Zack

Yeah, if you've crossed enough international borders with the audacity to
have (gasp!) long hair, or are a non-white person, or are just a female with
less than very expensive clothes on, you've no doubt ended up in a small,
windowless room with a grinning weirdo in a uniform wearing a rubber glove.
Having hour hard drive probed is a breeze really, and it doesn't make your
eyes bug out.

There is a third option, however, that I would like to suggest, namely,
caring enough to share your information freely, but not enough to worry
about those people who just want to get to know you a little better, and
lack the social skills to at least take you out to dinner first.  :)

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 22:33:05 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.d63c7d52.255bbc59@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 01:29:45 EST
Subject: Solid State Transformer Generator on site
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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See my second site for drawing and operation of SSTG.
Video stills of test coil will be put on site tonight if all goes well.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com//phantom1948/site2.html">LAFONTE RESEARCH 
SITE 2</A>  or  http://hometown.aol.com//phantom1948/site2.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 23:01:07 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:00:53 PST
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> > >Check out this link and see how secure your computer is?
>>. If your on the
> > net your public... and anyone with the right codes has total access!!! 
>Just
> > except it and go on... Big brother is watching and he can see 
>everything...
> >
>
>There are two obvious solutions to this:
>1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do in
>this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
>2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.

#1 wont always work... they can do a reconstruct of everything that has 
crossed your hard drive...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 10 23:21:28 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:21:10 +1100
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <1msqOAvbK5a5sqeFREHFiOtJyQsf@4ax.com>
References: <001501bf2bb8$8897f4a0$17d3fea9@agent> <peApOOfloxOBMrU=jhtyOhDJt1bS@4ax.com> <002f01bf2bce$3c2861c0$17d3fea9@agent>
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On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:52:14 -0600, techlab wrote:

>Well Robin! What can I say at least we have not taken anyone's money and ran
>like one of your countrymen, maybe the name SMOT was a key to a worthwhile
>technology. 

Had you ever spoken to Greg, you would have realised that he is actually one
of your countrymen. Nevertheless, attempted guilt by association is unworthy
of you.

>We may sell a CD, but to date I have not received a complaint
>that it was not worth the price, not that it's anyone's business, but the
>number of CD's covering our work exceed your fingers and toes.

I didn't say it wasn't worth the price. All I said was that the actual web
site didn't contain any proof. All I can find (and I may be missing
something), is a statement that the output current at 2500 volt increased from
46.7 mA to 107.9 mA, while the input current increased by 61.25 mA.
However these numbers are meaningless without knowing the input voltage, phase
factors etc. as you are well aware.

>
>In fact we have been bilked by some of the subscribers to the list, trust is
>one thing but stupidity is another would you not say.

I agree wholeheartedly that anyone selling something by mail should make sure
they get their money before parting with the goods.

>
>Always thought the old saying a picture was worth a thousand words still
>held.
>
>Keep up the criticism it only make me laugh harder.

Ronald, you are not laughing you are angry. But not justifiably so, as far as
I can tell.

I for one would not spend any money on your CD, until you at least make a
claim of OU, and provide sufficient data to back it up. Note that you can
supply sufficient data, without giving away any secrets at all.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 00:29:20 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:29:06 EST
Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier
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Dans un courrier dat du 10/11/99 23:38:59 Paris, Madrid, techlab@atgroup.org 
a crit :

> Gee! Because you will take and run with it, disregarding the people that did
>  some of the initial work.
>  
>  Sorry, guess you have had all these idea's and been working on them for
>  years ?
> 

Hi Rex, 

Have you noticed that I have give all the credits to Avramenko and Tesla ? 
I have also pointed to their original patents, doc and papers already 
published freely in the world.
This is NOT my devices or my invention ( I have never claimed this kind of 
thing ) but simply the REPLICATION of the 1900's Tesla devices and the 1993's 
Avramenko invention as I have already writen in my web site... 
You may check this by yourself at : 
http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/afep01.htm
The purposes are only the check of the original claims and the understanding 
of principles of physics.

For your information : Reference documents :

- Electric Spacecraft Journal - issue 12, 1994 : 
"Russian patent on Longitudinal electrical transmission" by Avramenko
"Longitudinal Electrodynamic Wave experiments" by Charles Yost
- New Energy News - August 1994 : "Solid State Space-Energy Generator" by 
Stanislav and Konstantin Avramenko.
- The Russian patent : (PCT/GB93/00960) - May 10th, 1993 by Stanislav and 
Konstantin Avramenko. ( http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=WO09323907A1 )
- Tesla US Patent number 1,119,736 : "Apparatus for transmitting electrical 
energy" (issued Dec. 1, 1914)
- Tesla US Patent number 8,200 : " Improvements relating to the transmission 
of Electrical Energy" (17th Apr.,1906)


Best Regards

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 02:37:37 1999
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Message-ID: <382A9AD6.5A13237A@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:30:46 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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Organization: Home Lab
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Dear Sirs,

I had some problems with email connection but now it is o.k.

techlab wrote:

> Although Frolov stated a ~3% manifested power he felt was not coming from
> his power source in his simple AV Plug experiments, this level is small and
> could totally be measurement error. Our work on the same basic design did
> confirm that he was right and there is indeed energy gained from some source
> other than the power supply, in such amount that measurement error can be
> counted out.

The experiment was produced to demo the idea for reproduction, it is not
commercial version. Let's find who can be serious customer to work for 10KW
single-wire power transmissiion experiment. This version of expeirment should be
real commercial over-unity project.

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov

--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 06:23:46 1999
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Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier
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Mr. Ucar,

Sometime on 11/11/99 we will pull some of the CD content and place it in the
DCG section to show some of the tests that were done.

I laugh at the way certain people on lists respond to things. Example is
Robins take of Zero information being presented. Now lets assume this is an
advertisement for Coke, the ad reads "Tastes Great and Refreshing".

Now this is a prime example, 1) Tastes Great to who, 2) Refreshing How ?,
what's the proof before I try one.

The DCG and SPT work found on our site is fully documented in CD's, what we
have on the site is an overview of content (No More!).

We will fully accept criticism of work we post that is found to be in error,
in fact will welcome the education, although to take what is meant as an
overview and not a test report and begin to selectively pull it apart is not
fair, therefore a hostile reaction.

If you have some time after we post the test example, we would welcome you
additional comment, good or bad. Its obvious we know nothing about writing
overview's as they seem to be taken as research results.

Rex A.


Advanced Technology Group
www.atgroup.org
----- Original Message -----
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier


> Hi Rex and All,
>
> I would take your attention to parasitic capacitors of components, leads,
and of the bread-board, while making measurements. capacitive currents for
2500V 85 kHz is same the 2.5V 85 MHz. So few pF's may carry many miliamps.
So it may be careful to not change these parasitic capacitance while
inserting/removing components, using more or less bread-board contacts in
order to comparing measurements results.
>
> I had also observed some apparent efficiency increase, while driving my
coils trough an neon bulb at RF. But results become not conclusive or
significant after increasing number of experiments. What I would say is
plasmas does not reduce the efficiency, at least.
>
> Regards,
>
> hamdi
>
>
>
> techlab wrote:
>
> > We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective
in
> > the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna
both
> > with and without a plasma in series.
> > It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
> > charge than the simple wire antenna.
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 07:36:39 1999
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Message-Id: <199911111540.NAA16665@bigbox.plug-in.com.br>
From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
Organization: Computec Ltda
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:35:45 -2
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Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier
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> 
> The DCG and SPT work found on our site is fully documented in CD's, what we have
> on the site is an overview of content (No More!).
> 

The information about how to extract free energy from your old BiPeg circuit 
will be available in your CD ?

Thanks.



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

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> >
> >There are two obvious solutions to this:
> >1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do in
> >this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
> >2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.
> 
> #1 wont always work... they can do a reconstruct of everything that has 
> crossed your hard drive...
> 

Not remotely. They need physical access to the drive to do that.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 15:07:49 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:04:23 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
[snip]
> 
> I didn't say it wasn't worth the price. All I said was that the actual web
> site didn't contain any proof. All I can find (and I may be missing
> something), is a statement that the output current at 2500 volt increased from
> 46.7 mA to 107.9 mA, while the input current increased by 61.25 mA.
> However these numbers are meaningless without knowing the input voltage, phase
> factors etc. as you are well aware.
> 
[snip]

Hi Robin and All,

I understand Techlab works, their web site and CD's a way to share information within people interested on alternate energy. Nothing to proof here, no OU claim on presented projects. Just they are interesting research projects, It would be good discussing


 things, producing new ideas, pointing issues which not considered before. This is a way to improve the objectivity on interpreting results.

The theme here is, try it yourself and share your result with others if you wish. You may criticize Techlab for not offering an complete report on scientific publishing grade, but this is not required at this time, as they only share their ongoing experim


ents. If phase figures on I/O flow are needed to understand the phenomenon and interpret results, ask them simply and they may provide them, if they can.

Please dont mix Techlab works with "somebody" which had never accepted to give valid figures to proof their repeated claims over years.

I believe that publicly open projects are a promising way to reach to free energy. I believe the internet is the only way to break the barriers.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 16:00:27 1999
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Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
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At 11:00 AM 11/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
> > >
> > >There are two obvious solutions to this:
> > >1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do in
> > >this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
> > >2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.
> >
> > #1 wont always work... they can do a reconstruct of everything that has
> > crossed your hard drive...
> >
>
>Not remotely. They need physical access to the drive to do that.

not really. if you've got a fast connection and have a "permanent" 
connection (ie:dsl, cable, isdn..), and you've either got plenty of free 
time or you're really diggin for dirt, you can reconstruct 
remotely.  Welcome to the internet :]

On the other hand, there's no such thing as undeletable files....Norton and 
various other freeware programs out there (i use norton, so i can't give 
examples) do disk wipes.  They simply flush out any "digital residue" left 
on your machine, and it's mostly efficient.  So for the truly paranoid, 
this is the true approach to being "safe from the internet" <snicker><snort>

But if you're really so paranoid about people seeing your 
information....what are you doing here?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 16:20:37 1999
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Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
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> At 11:00 AM 11/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >There are two obvious solutions to this:
> > > >1) Don't keep any sensitive material in your computer. Not hard to do
in
> > > >this age of ZIP/JAZ(tm) drives
> > > >2) Adopt the opinion that you don't care.
> > >
> > > #1 wont always work... they can do a reconstruct of everything that
has
> > > crossed your hard drive...
> > >
> >
> >Not remotely. They need physical access to the drive to do that.
>
> not really. if you've got a fast connection and have a "permanent"
> connection (ie:dsl, cable, isdn..), and you've either got plenty of free
> time or you're really diggin for dirt, you can reconstruct
> remotely.  Welcome to the internet :]
>

Oh... we're talking about different things. I meant that if you save,
delete, then overwrite, then you can't find out remotely what was on it, but
if you have access to the disk itself, and some weird equipment, then you
can extract everything that was ever on it. Or at leat a whole lot.

> On the other hand, there's no such thing as undeletable files....Norton
and
> various other freeware programs out there (i use norton, so i can't give
> examples) do disk wipes.  They simply flush out any "digital residue" left
> on your machine, and it's mostly efficient.  So for the truly paranoid,
> this is the true approach to being "safe from the internet"
<snicker><snort>
>

Oh, what I was talking about can retrive even after one of these "flushes"
but only if you have the disk in hand.

>
> But if you're really so paranoid about people seeing your
> information....what are you doing here?
>

Me? I'm not paranoid about that? It's those other people, all the paranoids
are out to get me. *grin*

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 16:30:13 1999
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> 
> Oh... we're talking about different things. I meant that if you save,
> delete, then overwrite, then you can't find out remotely what was on it, but
> if you have access to the disk itself, and some weird equipment, then you
> can extract everything that was ever on it. Or at leat a whole lot.
> 
> > On the other hand, there's no such thing as undeletable files....Norton
> and
> > various other freeware programs out there (i use norton, so i can't give
> > examples) do disk wipes.  They simply flush out any "digital residue" left
> > on your machine, and it's mostly efficient.  So for the truly paranoid,
> > this is the true approach to being "safe from the internet"
> <snicker><snort>
> >
> 
> Oh, what I was talking about can retrive even after one of these "flushes"
> but only if you have the disk in hand.
> 


No, this does not work !

If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
how do you want to restore the information ?

The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !

If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !


-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 16:51:59 1999
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>
>
> No, this does not work !
>
> If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> how do you want to restore the information ?
>
> The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
>
> If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
>
>

Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same position, but
there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.

I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been known
to use this technique.

Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
don't remember where I saw this.



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 17:04:15 1999
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Psy-Kosh schrieb:
> 
> >
> >
> > No, this does not work !
> >
> > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > how do you want to restore the information ?
> >
> > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> >
> > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> >
> >
> 
> Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same position, but
> there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> 
> I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been known
> to use this technique.
> 
> Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> don't remember where I saw this.

Hmm, but if you do the overwriting  10 times, no one will be able to 
reconstruct it ! This is just too much change then...
You probably also need to shift files around the harddrive to make it
even harder this way to reconstruct anything !


-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 17:17:42 1999
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Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
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>
>
> Hmm, but if you do the overwriting  10 times, no one will be able to
> reconstruct it ! This is just too much change then...
> You probably also need to shift files around the harddrive to make it
> even harder this way to reconstruct anything !
>

    Well, maybe. I do remember reading that they can usually go several
levels back... But still, ten times would probably not be enough to destroy
the teltale "halos." Even if it were, do you really want to keep doing that?

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Don't have any references, but military security calls for overwrite
11 times...supposedly info that has been written over up to eight 
times can be restored.....steve

Psy-Kosh wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > No, this does not work !
> >
> > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > how do you want to restore the information ?
> >
> > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> >
> > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> >
> >
> 
> Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same position, but
> there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> 
> I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been known
> to use this technique.
> 
> Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> don't remember where I saw this.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 18:10:47 1999
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Don't have any references, but military security calls for overwrite
11 times...supposedly info that has been written over up to eight 
times can be restored.....steve

Psy-Kosh wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > No, this does not work !
> >
> > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > how do you want to restore the information ?
> >
> > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> >
> > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> >
> >
> 
> Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same position, but
> there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> 
> I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been known
> to use this technique.
> 
> Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> don't remember where I saw this.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 18:20:16 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Arc's & Plasma's
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:52:07 +1100
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <DW8rOH23vi9g75MZ+CE+qZH+u6cP@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:04:23 +0200, hamdi ucar wrote:

>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>> 
>[snip]
>> 
>> I didn't say it wasn't worth the price. All I said was that the actual web
>> site didn't contain any proof. All I can find (and I may be missing
                           ^^^^^
      
>> something), is a statement that the output current at 2500 volt increased from
>> 46.7 mA to 107.9 mA, while the input current increased by 61.25 mA.
>> However these numbers are meaningless without knowing the input voltage, phase
>> factors etc. as you are well aware.
>> 
>[snip]
>
>Hi Robin and All,
>
>I understand Techlab works, their web site and CD's a way to share information within people interested on alternate energy. Nothing to proof here, no OU claim on presented projects. Just they are interesting research projects, It would be good discussin


g things, producing new ideas, pointing issues which not considered before. This is a way to improve the objectivity on interpreting results.

Note that in a previous post in the thread, Ronald wrote ">You can see what we
discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
". My post above was a response to that.
Perhaps my expectations were too high. I expected proof (and hence went
looking for it), while only an overview was being presented.


>
>The theme here is, try it yourself and share your result with others if you wish. You may criticize Techlab for not offering an complete report on scientific publishing grade, but this is not required at this time, as they only share their ongoing experi


ments. If phase figures on I/O flow are needed to understand the phenomenon and interpret results, ask them simply and they may provide them, if they can.

I don't expect scientific publishing grade, just enough information to be able
to draw a conclusion as to whether or not something interesting may be
happening.

>
>Please dont mix Techlab works with "somebody" which had never accepted to give valid figures to proof their repeated claims over years.

Where have I done this? I don't recall having compared them to anyone. In fact
if anything it is you who are doing this now yourself.

>
>I believe that publicly open projects are a promising way to reach to free energy. I believe the internet is the only way to break the barriers.

Perhaps not the only way, but certainly the fastest.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 18:45:58 1999
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From: Rymel <rymel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
In-Reply-To: <382B6E7D.C7A29E6@groupz.net>
References: <19991111070054.73367.qmail@hotmail.com>
 <4.2.0.58.19991111185614.00a094c0@pop.mindspring.com>
 <00b601bf2ca3$8ea606c0$5562ead8@nimmachine>
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See that's what i meant by residue. as long as you're using windows (can't 
confirm other OSes), you're never do a complete delete, it doesn't know how 
to.  for those of you who have norton utilities, you've probly used or at 
least seen norton undelete or unerase.  according to NU there's three 
levels of "deletion" it can save your files from. how does it do that? like 
i said, windows never deletes a file properly.  like steve said, if you 
overwrite multiple times, it will EVENTUALLY remove the leftovers. but how 
long will that take? the way it works (from what i've observed) is that the 
"deleted" files slowly degrade until there's nothing left to actually find 
out what it was. it's still there, it'll be there for a good while, that's 
why sometimes when you delete something you may end up with a meg or a k 
less space than you expected to gain back.  i think the reason it only gets 
written over incrementally instead of entirely is linked to the way the 
cluster system works, in that it skips over a cluster if there's the 
slightest amount of data on it.  (If i lost you there, i'm talking about 
Windows' file allocation systems. that's why you need the FAT32 (32 bit) 
system for large hard drives.  in the original FAT16, the larger your drive 
got, the larger the clusters of space got. so if you had say, 50Kb 
clusters, and FIVE kb of that cluster was used, windows would skip it and 
go to the next cluster. resulting in lost hd space had you used the FAT16 
system.  that's why we need defragmenting programs. i think this skipping 
over problem along with defragmenting a drive contributes to why files 
never completely die in a system.)

I probably sound like a complete fool to those of you on the list who 
actually have computer science degrees, but this is what i've come to from 
reading and experience.  Feel free to burn me :p


>Don't have any references, but military security calls for overwrite
>11 times...supposedly info that has been written over up to eight
>times can be restored.....steve
>
>Psy-Kosh wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > No, this does not work !
> > >
> > > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > > how do you want to restore the information ?
> > >
> > > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> > >
> > > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> > the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> > head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> > the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same 
> position, but
> > there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> > sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> > untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> > directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> > that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> > as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> >
> > I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> > microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been 
> known
> > to use this technique.
> >
> > Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> > don't remember where I saw this.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 21:12:31 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:12:02 PST
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>this is the true approach to being "safe from the internet" 
><snicker><snort>
>
>But if you're really so paranoid about people seeing your
>information....what are you doing here?
>
Oh, sure you laugh... I have friends that have TWO computers just so they 
can keep there private files private!! REALLY...
One for the internet and fun...
and
One completely disconnected from the world that they keep close eyes on...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 21:55:41 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:55:35 PST
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>The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
>
>If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
>
now enter the real world...
think of it this way... if you put a magnet in the magnetizer for say 10 
seconds... then revers it for 10 seconds what strength dose it have compared 
to one you only magnetized in one direction???
There are infinite levels between 1 and 0 and it only takes more computer to 
detect them.... Big brother IS watching and he has a lot of resources :)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 11 23:12:48 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: radiothorium thread
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:12:38 +1100
Organization: Improving
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Hi Bruce,

I appear to have been a bit too enthusiastic deleting things, and have lost
your most recent post on this thread. I do however remember you exhorting me
to tell you how much energy would be produced in total. The answer I get is as
follows:
The amount of radiothorium present is tiny (about 0.1 mm^3). So it would only
be able to stop a very tiny fraction of the fast neutrons. I will therefore
ignore any potential fission reactions that might otherwise have occurred.
Given that you want the neutron capture energy included, I will make the
assumption that the energy per captured neutron is equal the high end of the
scale for captured neutrons, i.e. about 8 MeV per neutron.
This increases the total energy per radiothorium decay to about 73 MeV.
Assuming all the radiothorium decays, and there are 3E18 atoms present
initially, the total energy release is 3E18 x 73 MeV = 10.4 kWh.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 00:17:33 1999
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Message-ID: <382BB172.BA6@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:19:30 -0500
From: Alik Shereshevsky <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
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References: <19991111070054.73367.qmail@hotmail.com> <4.2.0.58.19991111185614.00a094c0@pop.mindspring.com> <00b601bf2ca3$8ea606c0$5562ead8@nimmachine> <382B5F68.8EBAC4C5@harti.com> <00e101bf2ca7$eee1cfc0$5562ead8@nimmachine> <382B6E7D.C7A29E6@groupz.net>
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Given apparent interest in this subject, here is a nice
web site:

http://infowar.com/

Alik S.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 00:22:51 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: radiothorium thread
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:22:43 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:12:38 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
[snip]
>Given that you want the neutron capture energy included, I will make the
>assumption that the energy per captured neutron is equal the high end of the
>scale for captured neutrons, i.e. about 8 MeV per neutron.
>This increases the total energy per radiothorium decay to about 73 MeV.
>Assuming all the radiothorium decays, and there are 3E18 atoms present
>initially, the total energy release is 3E18 x 73 MeV = 10.4 kWh.
[snip]
Oops.. each radiothorium produces 5 alphas, thus also 5 neutrons based on
previous assumptions, so that should have been 40 MeV rather than 8 MeV,
bringing the total per radiothorium to 105 MeV, and the overall total to 15
kWh.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 03:22:54 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:24:13 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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References: <19991111070054.73367.qmail@hotmail.com> <4.2.0.58.19991111185614.00a094c0@pop.mindspring.com> <00b601bf2ca3$8ea606c0$5562ead8@nimmachine> <382B5F68.8EBAC4C5@harti.com> <00e101bf2ca7$eee1cfc0$5562ead8@nimmachine> <382B6E7D.C7A29E6@groupz.net>
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To sleep easy use a program like "F-secure."
It has a extreme level of encryption... not
like PGP that has a backdoor key for government
and certain military agencies. This key was forced
by law. This program will also delete a file several
times to overwrite any residual magnetic domains.


          -BAP


steven opelc wrote:
> 
> Don't have any references, but military security calls for overwrite
> 11 times...supposedly info that has been written over up to eight
> times can be restored.....steve
> 
> Psy-Kosh wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > No, this does not work !
> > >
> > > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > > how do you want to restore the information ?
> > >
> > > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> > >
> > > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> > the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> > head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> > the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same position, but
> > there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> > sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> > untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> > directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> > that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> > as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> >
> > I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> > microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been known
> > to use this technique.
> >
> > Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> > don't remember where I saw this.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 03:36:23 1999
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:38:03 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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References: <4LorOC9ue8xg3yp1iRCBnZtxOx1u@4ax.com>
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Robin,

The question was for a ONE CURIE radiothorium source.
Forget about the fission. I am refering to the fusion
of Be X He -> C12 + neutron = ENERGY???? You are avoiding
the answer because you can not believe the enomorous figures
in front of you. Get past the denial and accept the truth.


           -Bruce A. Perreault



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> I appear to have been a bit too enthusiastic deleting things, and have lost
> your most recent post on this thread. I do however remember you exhorting me
> to tell you how much energy would be produced in total. The answer I get is as
> follows:
> The amount of radiothorium present is tiny (about 0.1 mm^3). So it would only
> be able to stop a very tiny fraction of the fast neutrons. I will therefore
> ignore any potential fission reactions that might otherwise have occurred.
> Given that you want the neutron capture energy included, I will make the
> assumption that the energy per captured neutron is equal the high end of the
> scale for captured neutrons, i.e. about 8 MeV per neutron.
> This increases the total energy per radiothorium decay to about 73 MeV.
> Assuming all the radiothorium decays, and there are 3E18 atoms present
> initially, the total energy release is 3E18 x 73 MeV = 10.4 kWh.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 04:36:12 1999
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
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	I know many people have already responded to this post, but I am going
to add mine.  First off, reading residual magnetic fields off the hard
drive to determine what has been on it can ONLY be carried out
physically.  That is, not from the internet or any remote host.  This is
because pc's simply are not equiped to do it.  Also, no one can recover
all data that has ever crossed the disk, and even if we had sensitive
enough instruments, the data would get mixed up chronologically.  Second
point, you can turn NetBIOS off in Windows 95 (this is what I use).  When
I checked my computer at that website with NetBIOS on, it showed that
scanners can access my computer.  When I turned it off, the site showed
that scanners can not get to my computer.  I know that loopholes are
constantly being found, but turning NetBIOS off is pretty secure.

	-Tom
___________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 05:02:27 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:53:46 -0500
Organization: is mostly via piles
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>See that's what i meant by residue.

With hard disk in hand you can look at the side bands of the
data, rather than the data it self.  Takes special
equipment.  There is a place in Colorado that makes their
living doing this kind of thing, for when you format you
lifes work by accident and "absolutely must recover it that
data!".  I don't recall their name.

There are share/freeware programs called "Wipe" and "Nuke" as
well as others that do follow the Mil-Spec for deleting the
data.  Some place around here I have the spec number if any
one really wants it.

REALLY important secret government stuff, they take the hard
disk out of the machine under escort and grind it to bits.

My self I use Wipe, the defragement frequently, and leave it
at that.

I hope your'll all doing back ups as you should be, right?

If the Gov. wants it they'll come in with a court order and
take the back ups away, and they it doesn't mater how well
you deleted your hard disk.


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 05:45:42 1999
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Bob Paddock wrote:

>
> REALLY important secret government stuff, they take the hard
> disk out of the machine under escort and grind it to bits.

The drives are dismantled, the platters are extracted, the oxide is deresed in
a 400
HZ demagnetizer, then the oxide is then REMOVED and BURNT in a gas-fired
kiln. The platters are run thru a metal chipper which  then goes to scrap melt.

For floppies and all other forms of lesser, non-hard platter, they simply deres
and
shred, then burn it.

Believe me..if they want to know what's on your drive, they'll simply come to
your
home, office, etc. with a court order. They'll take the whole machine, all your
back
up tapes, diskettes, etc.  There's a special unit in the FBI that does nothing
but look
at and analyze the data in such cases. The NSA and CIA do this as well. As for
the
likelyhood of this happening, unless you are deemed to be a terrorist, or some
sort
of threat to the populace, you have very little to worry about.

 -Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 06:10:08 1999
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On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Rymel wrote:
> See that's what i meant by residue. as long as you're using windows (can't 
> confirm other OSes), you're never do a complete delete, it doesn't know how 
> to.  for those of you who have norton utilities, you've probly used or at 
> least seen norton undelete or unerase.  

When you delete a file under windows, the file goes to the recycle
bin first, so that it can easily be undeleted. In essence, it is
moved.

When you do physically delete a file, the directory entry
(dos/windows) or inode (unix) is freed,  and the file's data blocks
are moved to the free list, with data intact. 

Some file systems will wipe the data blocks when they are freed. This
provides good protection.

As far as wiping goes, several years back I read a dcoument detailing
this.  The DoD has a proceedure, which involves writing the out a
certain sequence of bit patterns; Patern A first, Pattern B next,
etc. I believe 10 or so writes are required to totally wipe out the
disk.

I was pretty surprised when I first read this, but then again, funky
things do happen. I recently had to power down my son's Win95 machine
to get out of a lockup condition, and of course, the FAT got
corruptted, so I ran scandisk. Well, Windows found some old OS/2
files from when that drive was used on my OS/2 box, several formats
ago.

What many people are doing is putting up a firewall machine for
internet access. Take an old PC and throw Linux on it. The Linux box
has total visability to the Internet, but prevents outside access
from reaching you internal network. All your other PC's can then
access the net via the Linux box, just as if they where directly
connected. I'm sure that security holes will be found from time to
time, but these are easily correctable. CERT reports them as they are
found and how to correct them.

As far as 'having access to your drives', this is a Windowsism. In
Microsoft''s push at Internet dominance, they have basically removed
all security barriers to your boxes, if you know how to
take advantage of it. I avoid windows like the plauge. 

Charlie



according to NU there's three 
> levels of "deletion" it can save your files from. how does it do that? like 
> i said, windows never deletes a file properly.  like steve said, if you 
> overwrite multiple times, it will EVENTUALLY remove the leftovers. but how 
> long will that take? the way it works (from what i've observed) is that the 
> "deleted" files slowly degrade until there's nothing left to actually find 
> out what it was. it's still there, it'll be there for a good while, that's 
> why sometimes when you delete something you may end up with a meg or a k 
> less space than you expected to gain back.  i think the reason it only gets 
> written over incrementally instead of entirely is linked to the way the 
> cluster system works, in that it skips over a cluster if there's the 
> slightest amount of data on it.  (If i lost you there, i'm talking about 
> Windows' file allocation systems. that's why you need the FAT32 (32 bit) 
> system for large hard drives.  in the original FAT16, the larger your drive 
> got, the larger the clusters of space got. so if you had say, 50Kb 
> clusters, and FIVE kb of that cluster was used, windows would skip it and 
> go to the next cluster. resulting in lost hd space had you used the FAT16 
> system.  that's why we need defragmenting programs. i think this skipping 
> over problem along with defragmenting a drive contributes to why files 
> never completely die in a system.)
> 
> I probably sound like a complete fool to those of you on the list who 
> actually have computer science degrees, but this is what i've come to from 
> reading and experience.  Feel free to burn me :p
> 
> 
> >Don't have any references, but military security calls for overwrite
> >11 times...supposedly info that has been written over up to eight
> >times can be restored.....steve
> >
> >Psy-Kosh wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, this does not work !
> > > >
> > > > If you delete the file by writing every byte with a FF or 00
> > > > how do you want to restore the information ?
> > > >
> > > > The magnetic HD space can be only 0 or 1 in a spot !
> > > >
> > > > If you change magnetisation the data is deleted for ever !
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ok, I don't remember the refrences for this, but here is what I remember of
> > > the proccess. Basicly, think about what is happening with the drive and the
> > > head... if you write a bit, then delete it, it is unlikely that both times
> > > the disk was in the _exact_ same position. 99.999999% the same 
> > position, but
> > > there would be a tiny variation, due to sound waves, etc... This creates a
> > > sort of "halo" around bits, and also, when you magnetize/demagnetize, it is
> > > untrue that 100% of the magnetic domains in the area in question get
> > > directed. Most, but not all. So if you magnitize 90% then demagnetize 90%,
> > > that still leaves a group of up to 10% that might be "out-of-wack" and act
> > > as a signpost as it were for those who are scaning the disk.
> > >
> > > I don't remember how this is done exactly, something with some kind of
> > > microscope that scans magnetic domains. I believe the police have been 
> > known
> > > to use this technique.
> > >
> > > Again if this is familiar to anyone, please post some refrences, because I
> > > don't remember where I saw this.
-- 
Who is Don Alphonso,
and what's all this about tweezers?

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 13:49:55 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: radiothorium thread
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:49:40 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:38:03 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

>Robin,
>
>The question was for a ONE CURIE radiothorium source.

That's what I ran the numbers for.

ONE CURIE is 3.7E10 decays per sec. Radiothorium has a halflife of 1.9116
years. This implies that the amount of radiothorium present initially is 
3E18 atoms, that's not much. As I calculated before, the total volume of those
atoms is only 0.1 cubic mm. A mm is about the size of the period at the end of
this sentence. Nevertheless, to get 15 kWh (about as much electricity  as I
use at home in a day) from such a tiny spec of matter bespeaks the power of a
nuclear source.

>Forget about the fission. 

I did.

>I am refering to the fusion
>of Be X He -> C12 + neutron = ENERGY???? 

I included this. The energy release from each alpha is 5.7 MeV directly from
the fusion, and another 8 MeV from the following neutron capture, or 13.7 MeV
from fusion + neutron capture. Given that each initial radiothorium decay
results in 5 alphas (thus 5 fusion events and 5 neutrons), the total for each
radiothorium decay is 5 x 13.7 MeV or 68.5 MeV per radiothorium decay. 
(In practice this is being generous, as probably not all alphas will fuse with
beryllium). This 68.5 MeV is on top of the decay energy that results when the
radiothorium decays all the way down to Pb208 (36.4 MeV per radiothorium
atom). Total energy per radiothorium atom of 68.5+36.4=104.9 which I rounded
to 105 MeV. Note that 8 MeV per neutron is also generous, unless they result
in fission reactions.

>You are avoiding
>the answer because you can not believe the enomorous figures
>in front of you. 

Which answer am I avoiding according to you? 

>Get past the denial and accept the truth.

What denial? What truth? (Please be specific).
I see below that you missed my follow-up correction.

Bruce, these are the numbers I get using standard physics. If you can do
better in practice, then I see several possibilities.

1) You have underestimated the actual amount of nuclear material you have
present. This is very easy to do, because most alpha particles are stopped in
just a few microns of solid matter. That means that in practice they don't
even escape the source material, unless it is spread very thin. So a radiation
measurement taken outside that material just picks up the few that escape (+
the gamma rays that also escape, unless measures are taken to separate the two
during measurement).

2) You may have radiothorium that is combined with other substances, that have
a longer halflife, and thus contribute little extra in the way of radiation,
but a lot in the way of extra energy (i.e. the energy is released over a
longer period).

3) You may be tapping into another source of energy entirely, and the nuclear
particles &/or reactions are just a catalyst/gateway to the other source.

>
>
>           -Bruce A. Perreault
>

BTW while searching the web I came across a site that I thought might come in
handy when doing similar calculations. It is

http://www.graphpad.com/www/radcalc.htm .

>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Bruce,
>> 
>> I appear to have been a bit too enthusiastic deleting things, and have lost
>> your most recent post on this thread. I do however remember you exhorting me
>> to tell you how much energy would be produced in total. The answer I get is as
>> follows:
>> The amount of radiothorium present is tiny (about 0.1 mm^3). So it would only
>> be able to stop a very tiny fraction of the fast neutrons. I will therefore
>> ignore any potential fission reactions that might otherwise have occurred.
>> Given that you want the neutron capture energy included, I will make the
>> assumption that the energy per captured neutron is equal the high end of the
>> scale for captured neutrons, i.e. about 8 MeV per neutron.
>> This increases the total energy per radiothorium decay to about 73 MeV.
>> Assuming all the radiothorium decays, and there are 3E18 atoms present
>> initially, the total energy release is 3E18 x 73 MeV = 10.4 kWh.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 14:08:20 1999
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>When you delete a file under windows, the file goes to the recycle
>bin first, so that it can easily be undeleted. In essence, it is
>moved.

my files hardly ever touch that waste of programming time. always use 
shift+delete :]

here's a little humor from CNN, on the search for a STABLE windows 
system...rofl..

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/03/rare.glitch.project.idg/index.html

and regarding Flytcher's reply.....i was gonna mention it but i figured 
that was pretty extreme and not really worth mentioning...guess i was wrong.

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From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" <vramos@ctv.es>
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Subject: RE: Is the world spying on your hard drive?
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 06:25:25 +0100
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And If you save your interesting info in a removable HD?
You can consult this drive off-line.
Vicente.


----------

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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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--part1_0.b68755eb.255e2fc5_boundary
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Hi all,
Please see the attached drawing and see if anyone can come up with a circuit 
that can do the following:
The drawing shows a coil that is made up of TWO insulated wires wrapped side 
by side to make up an air core coil. These wires are super-conducting and 
current of equal amount is flowing in each of the separate wire circuits. Now 
is there any way that when switch B is opened, that the voltage/current 
induced by the collapsing magnetic field of the B circuit can be switched to 
the A circuit so that it will induce it's voltage into the A circuit in the 
same direction that the current flow is going in the A circuit.
Note: The collapse of the B circuit will cause a back EMF to be induced into 
the A circuit due to the A circuit's magnetic field going back to it's normal 
distribution pattern (not being "squeezed up"). I want to counter act the 
back EMF by the circuit switching I speak of needing help with. If it works I 
will share your name on the device with my name if you like or for that 
matter anything that becomes of it.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 20:54:25 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need help with strange circuit
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:54:09 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:06:45 EST, HLafonte@aol.com wrote:

>Hi all,
>Please see the attached drawing and see if anyone can come up with a circuit 
>that can do the following:
>The drawing shows a coil that is made up of TWO insulated wires wrapped side 
>by side to make up an air core coil. These wires are super-conducting and 
>current of equal amount is flowing in each of the separate wire circuits. Now 
>is there any way that when switch B is opened, that the voltage/current 
>induced by the collapsing magnetic field of the B circuit can be switched to 
>the A circuit so that it will induce it's voltage into the A circuit in the 
>same direction that the current flow is going in the A circuit.

Superconducting wires add an added complexity I think, because they tend to
exclude magnetic fields and I don't know if this leads to unexpected
behaviour. However for normal wires, I see no reason why the initial direction
of current in the A circuit can't be chosen such as to be in the same
direction as the current induced by the collapse of the field caused by
breaking the B circuit. I.e. the collapsing field will try to maintain current
in the B circuit, so it will also try to make current in the A circuit flow in
the same direction. I.e. if the A current is already flowing in the same
direction as the initial B current, it should get a boost from the collapsing
field when B is interrupted. IOW you don't need any circuit switching, because
a forward, not a back EMF is induced.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 12 21:11:19 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 00:11:14 EST
Subject: Plasma as Amplifier & other possibilities
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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<< Hi Rex'
Using the similar method, (Plasma effect) could it be any way to charge a 
large capacitor and by discharging it one can perhaps do some work with it?

Since Xenon tube ionizes and conducts a sizable current and the incandescent 
lamp flashes at a 85 millisecond rate.

It got to be a way to use high speed (frequency) and high voltage and to 
charge up low speed capacitor to do some work, like a leverage effect. For 
example with a right 
gears man can use under 100 foot lbs force to raise up 1000s of pounds of 
weight. 

Mehmet.>>


> Subj:  Plasma as Amplifier
>  Date:    11/10/99 12:35:59 PM Mountain Standard Time
>  From:    techlab@atgroup.org (techlab)
>  Reply-to:    <A HREF="mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A>
>  To:  freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Free Energy)
>  
>  We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective in
>  the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna both
>  with and without a plasma in series.
>  It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
>  charge than the simple wire antenna.
>  
>  http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Rex A.
>  
>  Advanced Technology Group
>  www.atgroup.org

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 05:43:22 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:44:46 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Helium Componds ala "Blacklight Company?"
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HELIUM COMPOUNDS


Helium is chemically inert under normal conditions. What is not
generally known is that this "noble gas" forms compounds with metals,
iodine, sulfur, and phosphorus. Helium when exposed to ultraviolet light
it glows green to canary-yellow. This can also be seen in the electric
discharge tube. This gas does form compounds under excitation, due
apparently to unpairing of its 1s electrons and promotes one electron to
the 2s state. Helium requires 460,000 cal/gram-atom to form compounds
and this is readily obtained by electric discharge or electron
bombardment. The required energy is obtained when the electron in the 2s
state collapses back to its 1s state, releasing 460,000 cal/gram-atom of
photon energy. It is postulated that electronic excitation creates the
helium molecule-ion, He+2, with a pair of bonding electrons (1s) and a
single anti-bonding electron (1s). Combinations of the types HeH+ and
HeH+2 can be created in this way. Mercury discharge tubes have been
found to contain the compound HgHe10, and with the metal electrodes
corresponding helide compounds of tungsten (WHe2), platinum (Pt3He),
iron (FeHe), palladium (PdHe), bismuth (BiHe), etc., have also been
discovered.

Ref. Van Nostrands Scientific Encyclopedia, 5th edition (1976),  p.p.
1257-1258


           -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 05:54:29 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:55:59 -0500
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References: <4LorOC9ue8xg3yp1iRCBnZtxOx1u@4ax.com> <382BFC1B.51E0@cyberportal.net> <aIssOHjyk1WuG=RSilFSaY0UzaUQ@4ax.com>
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Robin,

First of all 1 curie is equal to 1 gram of radium.
Where do you get the low figures for radiothorium?

One gram of radium evolves about 134 calories per
hour. The total "heat" available is over 2,000,000,000
per gram. This figure excludes our special case fusion
reaction.

Here are two examples that compare fission vs. fusion,

Fission: 161,000 kWh/kg (2 X 10e8 BTU/lb)

Fusion: 1.68 X 10e11 kWh/kg (2.6 X 10e14)

Normal Hydrogen oxydation: 35 Wh/kg (54,000 BTU/lb)

It has been computed by your physics that 1 gram of hydrogen
(protons) to helium will liberate 166,000,000,000 calories!

I conceed that my recent radiant energy prototype may be
using a special catalytic reaction. However, this does not
negate my work with alpha fusion. 

 

         -Bruce A. Perreault



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:38:03 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> 
> >Robin,
> >
> >The question was for a ONE CURIE radiothorium source.
> 
> That's what I ran the numbers for.
> 
> ONE CURIE is 3.7E10 decays per sec. Radiothorium has a halflife of 1.9116
> years. This implies that the amount of radiothorium present initially is
> 3E18 atoms, that's not much. As I calculated before, the total volume of those
> atoms is only 0.1 cubic mm. A mm is about the size of the period at the end of
> this sentence. Nevertheless, to get 15 kWh (about as much electricity  as I
> use at home in a day) from such a tiny spec of matter bespeaks the power of a
> nuclear source.
> 
> >Forget about the fission.
> 
> I did.
> 
> >I am refering to the fusion
> >of Be X He -> C12 + neutron = ENERGY????
> 
> I included this. The energy release from each alpha is 5.7 MeV directly from
> the fusion, and another 8 MeV from the following neutron capture, or 13.7 MeV
> from fusion + neutron capture. Given that each initial radiothorium decay
> results in 5 alphas (thus 5 fusion events and 5 neutrons), the total for each
> radiothorium decay is 5 x 13.7 MeV or 68.5 MeV per radiothorium decay.
> (In practice this is being generous, as probably not all alphas will fuse with
> beryllium). This 68.5 MeV is on top of the decay energy that results when the
> radiothorium decays all the way down to Pb208 (36.4 MeV per radiothorium
> atom). Total energy per radiothorium atom of 68.5+36.4=104.9 which I rounded
> to 105 MeV. Note that 8 MeV per neutron is also generous, unless they result
> in fission reactions.
> 
> >You are avoiding
> >the answer because you can not believe the enomorous figures
> >in front of you.
> 
> Which answer am I avoiding according to you?
> 
> >Get past the denial and accept the truth.
> 
> What denial? What truth? (Please be specific).
> I see below that you missed my follow-up correction.
> 
> Bruce, these are the numbers I get using standard physics. If you can do
> better in practice, then I see several possibilities.
> 
> 1) You have underestimated the actual amount of nuclear material you have
> present. This is very easy to do, because most alpha particles are stopped in
> just a few microns of solid matter. That means that in practice they don't
> even escape the source material, unless it is spread very thin. So a radiation
> measurement taken outside that material just picks up the few that escape (+
> the gamma rays that also escape, unless measures are taken to separate the two
> during measurement).
> 
> 2) You may have radiothorium that is combined with other substances, that have
> a longer halflife, and thus contribute little extra in the way of radiation,
> but a lot in the way of extra energy (i.e. the energy is released over a
> longer period).
> 
> 3) You may be tapping into another source of energy entirely, and the nuclear
> particles &/or reactions are just a catalyst/gateway to the other source.
> 
> >
> >
> >           -Bruce A. Perreault
> >
> 
> BTW while searching the web I came across a site that I thought might come in
> handy when doing similar calculations. It is
> 
> http://www.graphpad.com/www/radcalc.htm .
> 
> >
> >
> >Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Bruce,
> >>
> >> I appear to have been a bit too enthusiastic deleting things, and have lost
> >> your most recent post on this thread. I do however remember you exhorting me
> >> to tell you how much energy would be produced in total. The answer I get is as
> >> follows:
> >> The amount of radiothorium present is tiny (about 0.1 mm^3). So it would only
> >> be able to stop a very tiny fraction of the fast neutrons. I will therefore
> >> ignore any potential fission reactions that might otherwise have occurred.
> >> Given that you want the neutron capture energy included, I will make the
> >> assumption that the energy per captured neutron is equal the high end of the
> >> scale for captured neutrons, i.e. about 8 MeV per neutron.
> >> This increases the total energy per radiothorium decay to about 73 MeV.
> >> Assuming all the radiothorium decays, and there are 3E18 atoms present
> >> initially, the total energy release is 3E18 x 73 MeV = 10.4 kWh.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 07:02:24 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier & other possibilities
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That is being done.

The temporary content was added to our site only to stop the pending
problems from certain statements made by readers on the list.

This is not the total experimental results or only circuit configuration.
Because it appears that selling CD's, Books, Video Tapes or anything else is
taboo in the so called alternate energy domain, we are closing our site
(ATGroup) on Dec.1, 1999 and password protecting it.

This will allow us to provide additional information (read complete results)
to only those individuals that have a sincere interest. As a side benefit it
will keep our traffic off the lists so we do not disturb anyone.

Rex.
----- Original Message -----
From: <MKSBoysal@aol.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 11:11 PM
Subject: Plasma as Amplifier & other possibilities


> << Hi Rex'
> Using the similar method, (Plasma effect) could it be any way to charge a
> large capacitor and by discharging it one can perhaps do some work with
it?
>
> Since Xenon tube ionizes and conducts a sizable current and the
incandescent
> lamp flashes at a 85 millisecond rate.
>
> It got to be a way to use high speed (frequency) and high voltage and to
> charge up low speed capacitor to do some work, like a leverage effect. For
> example with a right
> gears man can use under 100 foot lbs force to raise up 1000s of pounds of
> weight.
>
> Mehmet.>>
>
>
> > Subj:  Plasma as Amplifier
> >  Date:    11/10/99 12:35:59 PM Mountain Standard Time
> >  From:    techlab@atgroup.org (techlab)
> >  Reply-to:    <A
HREF="mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A>
> >  To:  freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Free Energy)
> >
> >  We have added a very simple demonstration of how a plasma is effective
in
> >  the collection of charge. The simple experiment uses a 1 meter antenna
both
> >  with and without a plasma in series.
> >  It was found that the plasma was over 100% more effective in collecting
> >  charge than the simple wire antenna.
> >
> >  http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Rex A.
> >
> >  Advanced Technology Group
> >  www.atgroup.org
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 08:28:49 1999
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Subject: The parametric overunity rotator
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Hello All !

I uploaded my new article in Zip-format rotator.zip in J.L.Naudin archive at
http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ 
It can be read with Netscape or Explorer after downloading and unzipping.

The aticle will be published as well in some days at the theory page of
Stefan Hartmanns overunity server if Stefan is present again. 

Abstract: 
A simple mechanical setup is proposed and calculated which demonstrates
overunity behaviour due to parametric changing moment of inertia. The
principle of the parametric rotator seem to be applicable to many overunity
claims as Schauberger vortex turbine, van Platen centrifuge, Wuerth gears
and Amin cycle. 

Sincerely

Dieter Bauer

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 14:13:55 1999
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From: Marinus Berghuis <renkahu@ihug.co.nz>
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Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org

At 20:13 12/11/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org
>
>Marinus
>
>I'm sorry to here that you have lived for  ~70 years in the service of
>others.  It is no wonder you are bitter.  What you expected is not real,
>what you experienced is reality.

Hi all,

Just to state a few points regards Alan's posting.
Service to others, includes bringing up your children, working for a
business. Owning a business so you can provide employment so others can
live in dignity. Run a farm so others can have food !!
I have done all of these things.
Survival of the fittest !!
How fit do you have to be to sit in an aeroplane and push a button to wipe
out a whole city !!
I have also been on the receiving end of such a service. It is called
service to your country!.
Who do your serve there !! Is country the population or the piece of dirt
you stand on.
Survival of the fittest is the norm in nature.  We have lived for 2000
years or more outside of nature's
rythms but that does not mean that we have to be robots in the SERVICE of a
so called fittest!! because he or she is able to marshall the begetters of
wealth through usury.
I am afraid that when I hear anyone say that only the fittest shall
survive, don't ever go to a docter or a dentist to prolong the workings of
your carcass. You then are no longer fit to be alowed to survive !!
I am vitally interested in the finding of free energy!
WHY?
So we can stop polluting our environment causing untold misery to billions
by causing diseases not normal in nature.
If it is our destiny to evolve into a species to seed other planets, O.K.
but let us do it without poisons
and certainly do not use the research for this in producing weapons of mass
destruction not only killing untold millions for the fun of it but
destroying also our environment.
You hopefully don't equate survival of the fittest with the research into
mind manipulation technics by a few misbegotten scientists supported by the
so called fittest !!

I would say honestly, GET OFF THE GRASS!! and think again !!
As far as I am concerned this subject is closed !!!

REN


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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 14:44:25 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Plasma as Amplifier & other possibilities
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 17:53:04 -0500
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Rex writes:
>This is not the total experimental results or only circuit configuration.
>Because it appears that selling CD's, Books, Video Tapes or anything else is
>taboo in the so called alternate energy domain, we are closing our site
>(ATGroup) on Dec.1, 1999 and password protecting it.
>
>This will allow us to provide additional information (read complete results)
>to only those individuals that have a sincere interest. As a side benefit it
>will keep our traffic off the lists so we do not disturb anyone.
>
>Rex.

That's too bad, Rex.  Myself, I enjoyed reading your site, thought it was
very nicely done, and found it thought provoking.  Let us know if you change
your mind.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 15:21:29 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: radiothorium thread
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:21:09 +1100
Organization: Improving
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References: <4LorOC9ue8xg3yp1iRCBnZtxOx1u@4ax.com> <382BFC1B.51E0@cyberportal.net> <aIssOHjyk1WuG=RSilFSaY0UzaUQ@4ax.com> <382D6DEF.585@cyberportal.net>
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:55:59 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
Hi Bruce,

>Robin,
>
>First of all 1 curie is equal to 1 gram of radium.

That is to say that 1 gram of Ra226 has an activity of 1 Ci.
For other radioisotopes this is different. 
When the half life is longer, you need more of it to get the same activity,
and when the half life is shorter, you need less to get the same activity.
The half life of Ra226 is 1600 years, while that of radiothorium is only 
1.9 years, so you need correspondingly less radiothorium. I.e. 1.9/1600 is 1
part in 842.
Since 1 gram of Ra226 contains 2.67E21 atoms, you will only need 2.67E21/842
= 3E18 atoms of radiothorium to achieve the same activity (i.e. 1 Ci), as I
had previously calculated.

>Where do you get the low figures for radiothorium?

See above.

BTW the number of atoms of any isotope needed for any particular activity =
    activity      x  half-life     /  .693 
(in decays /sec )   (in seconds)     (which is ln(2))

So for 1 Ci and Ra226 , this is 3.7E10 (decays/sec) x 5E10 (seconds) / .693
= 2.67E21 atoms (which is 1 gm).

>
>One gram of radium evolves about 134 calories per
>hour. 

Actually, if your were to capture all the heat of decay down to Pb206, you
would get 180 cal/hour.

>The total "heat" available is over 2,000,000,000
>per gram. 

For the decay down to Pb206 it is over 3,600,000,000 cal/gm (of Ra226).

>This figure excludes our special case fusion
>reaction.
>
>Here are two examples that compare fission vs. fusion,
>
>Fission: 161,000 kWh/kg (2 X 10e8 BTU/lb)

This depends of course on what you are allowing to fission, and the average
energy get get from each fission event. For U235, the average energy per
fission event is about 200 MeV. A kg of U235 contains 2.6E24 atoms, so the
total energy release if they were all to fission would be 22,000,000 kWh/kg.

For natural uranium (which only contains 0.7% U235) this would be 
0.007 x 22E6= 160000 kWh/kg. From this it appears that your example above
refers to natural uranium, where you are only looking at the U235 fission.
Note however that it discounts the energy from the occasional U238 fission
event, and also from the fissioning of Pu239 which will be produced as a
side reaction during the process (the amount depending on the exact
configuration of the reactor).

>
>Fusion: 1.68 X 10e11 kWh/kg (2.6 X 10e14)

One of the best fusion reactions around, based on energy/weight is the
reaction D + D -> He4 + 23.8 MeV.

Since 1 kg of D contains 1.5E26 molecules of deuterium, and each molecule
can fuse to 1 atom of helium producing 23.8 MeV, we get 
1.5e26 x 23.8 MeV = 1.6E8 kWh/kg (not 1.6E11 kWh/kg as suggested above).

>
>Normal Hydrogen oxydation: 35 Wh/kg (54,000 BTU/lb)

I believe this should be 38 kWh/kg (58,800 BTU/lb).
                            ^
>
>It has been computed by your physics that 1 gram of hydrogen
>(protons) to helium will liberate 166,000,000,000 calories!

For each He atom formed, 26.7 MeV is produced (note that this is only about
10% better than the reaction described above, and this reaction only takes
place is stars, and even then several steps are required).
1 gram of H2 is 1/2 mole, and results in 1/4 mole of He4. 
1/4 x 6E23 x 26.7 MeV = 154,000,000,000 cal, or 1E8 kWh/kg, compared to
2.2E7 kWh/kg for pure U235 fission (i.e. on an energy for weight basis,
hydrogen fusion is about 5 times better than U235 fission. This is why many
people would like to make use of fusion reactions for space travel).

>
>I conceed that my recent radiant energy prototype may be
>using a special catalytic reaction. However, this does not
>negate my work with alpha fusion. 

Bruce, what you have achieved, you have achieved. The only person who can
negate your work is you yourself, if drive people away with an aggressive
attitude.

BTW for the record I am not a proponent of fission power as it is currently
done.

>
> 
>
>         -Bruce A. Perreault
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 16:18:07 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The parametric overunity rotator
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:18:01 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 17:25:48 +0100, W.D. BAUER wrote:

>Hello All !
>
>I uploaded my new article in Zip-format rotator.zip in J.L.Naudin archive at
>http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ 

All I get at this address is a request to register.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 18:28:02 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 21:28:18 -0500
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References: <4LorOC9ue8xg3yp1iRCBnZtxOx1u@4ax.com> <382BFC1B.51E0@cyberportal.net> <aIssOHjyk1WuG=RSilFSaY0UzaUQ@4ax.com> <382D6DEF.585@cyberportal.net> <ddgtOL2vZF+scjK5MHhlvmN6nj4b@4ax.com>
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Robin,

Your figures here are accurate. Ra-226 vs. Th-228 being a 1:842 
ratio rests my case. This clearly shows that 1g of radiothorium will
emit eight-hundred and forty-two times more energy than it's
"dirty" competitor Ra-226.

Aggressiveness is not my desire. It is a requirement these days.
I will not end up like Newman or Searls. When necessary I will
bring out the heavy amour. Your figures below prove that there is
an enormous amount of energy to be harnessed from nature. This you
must conceed by your own submissions here.

I will share my knowledge with my peers. However, I will take no
hostages when it comes to defending what I know to be the truth.

Additionally... I will not allow this technology to be used to
further destroy lives... if this is at all possible.


         -Bruce A. Perreault



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:55:59 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> >Robin,
> >
> >First of all 1 curie is equal to 1 gram of radium.
> 
> That is to say that 1 gram of Ra226 has an activity of 1 Ci.
> For other radioisotopes this is different.
> When the half life is longer, you need more of it to get the same activity,
> and when the half life is shorter, you need less to get the same activity.
> The half life of Ra226 is 1600 years, while that of radiothorium is only
> 1.9 years, so you need correspondingly less radiothorium. I.e. 1.9/1600 is 1
> part in 842.
> Since 1 gram of Ra226 contains 2.67E21 atoms, you will only need 2.67E21/842
> = 3E18 atoms of radiothorium to achieve the same activity (i.e. 1 Ci), as I
> had previously calculated.
> 
> >Where do you get the low figures for radiothorium?
> 
> See above.
> 
> BTW the number of atoms of any isotope needed for any particular activity =
>     activity      x  half-life     /  .693
> (in decays /sec )   (in seconds)     (which is ln(2))
> 
> So for 1 Ci and Ra226 , this is 3.7E10 (decays/sec) x 5E10 (seconds) / .693
> = 2.67E21 atoms (which is 1 gm).
> 
> >
> >One gram of radium evolves about 134 calories per
> >hour.
> 
> Actually, if your were to capture all the heat of decay down to Pb206, you
> would get 180 cal/hour.
> 
> >The total "heat" available is over 2,000,000,000
> >per gram.
> 
> For the decay down to Pb206 it is over 3,600,000,000 cal/gm (of Ra226).
> 
> >This figure excludes our special case fusion
> >reaction.
> >
> >Here are two examples that compare fission vs. fusion,
> >
> >Fission: 161,000 kWh/kg (2 X 10e8 BTU/lb)
> 
> This depends of course on what you are allowing to fission, and the average
> energy get get from each fission event. For U235, the average energy per
> fission event is about 200 MeV. A kg of U235 contains 2.6E24 atoms, so the
> total energy release if they were all to fission would be 22,000,000 kWh/kg.
> 
> For natural uranium (which only contains 0.7% U235) this would be
> 0.007 x 22E6= 160000 kWh/kg. From this it appears that your example above
> refers to natural uranium, where you are only looking at the U235 fission.
> Note however that it discounts the energy from the occasional U238 fission
> event, and also from the fissioning of Pu239 which will be produced as a
> side reaction during the process (the amount depending on the exact
> configuration of the reactor).
> 
> >
> >Fusion: 1.68 X 10e11 kWh/kg (2.6 X 10e14)
> 
> One of the best fusion reactions around, based on energy/weight is the
> reaction D + D -> He4 + 23.8 MeV.
> 
> Since 1 kg of D contains 1.5E26 molecules of deuterium, and each molecule
> can fuse to 1 atom of helium producing 23.8 MeV, we get
> 1.5e26 x 23.8 MeV = 1.6E8 kWh/kg (not 1.6E11 kWh/kg as suggested above).
> 
> >
> >Normal Hydrogen oxydation: 35 Wh/kg (54,000 BTU/lb)
> 
> I believe this should be 38 kWh/kg (58,800 BTU/lb).
>                             ^
> >
> >It has been computed by your physics that 1 gram of hydrogen
> >(protons) to helium will liberate 166,000,000,000 calories!
> 
> For each He atom formed, 26.7 MeV is produced (note that this is only about
> 10% better than the reaction described above, and this reaction only takes
> place is stars, and even then several steps are required).
> 1 gram of H2 is 1/2 mole, and results in 1/4 mole of He4.
> 1/4 x 6E23 x 26.7 MeV = 154,000,000,000 cal, or 1E8 kWh/kg, compared to
> 2.2E7 kWh/kg for pure U235 fission (i.e. on an energy for weight basis,
> hydrogen fusion is about 5 times better than U235 fission. This is why many
> people would like to make use of fusion reactions for space travel).
> 
> >
> >I conceed that my recent radiant energy prototype may be
> >using a special catalytic reaction. However, this does not
> >negate my work with alpha fusion.
> 
> Bruce, what you have achieved, you have achieved. The only person who can
> negate your work is you yourself, if drive people away with an aggressive
> attitude.
> 
> BTW for the record I am not a proponent of fission power as it is currently
> done.
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >         -Bruce A. Perreault
> [snip]
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 19:21:03 1999
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> 
> That's too bad, Rex.  Myself, I enjoyed reading your site, thought it was
> very nicely done, and found it thought provoking.  Let us know if you change
> your mind.
> 
> Knuke
> Michael T. Huffman

Yes, please keep your work open to the others on Freenrg list.



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
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Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 19:58:10 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 22:54:40 EST
Subject: Re: Need help with strange circuit
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In a message dated 11/12/99 10:55:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au writes:

> However for normal wires, I see no reason why the initial direction
>  of current in the A circuit can't be chosen such as to be in the same
>  direction as the current induced by the collapse of the field caused by
>  breaking the B circuit.
Robin,
I want the fields to cancel each out when they expand so inductance will be 
low. The current needs to flow in opposite directions for this effect.
Thanks,
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 20:15:27 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: radiothorium thread
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:15:20 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 21:28:18 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
Hi Bruce,

>Robin,
>
>Your figures here are accurate. Ra-226 vs. Th-228 being a 1:842 
>ratio rests my case. This clearly shows that 1g of radiothorium will
>emit eight-hundred and forty-two times more energy than it's
>"dirty" competitor Ra-226.

This is somewhat mis-stated. For equal amounts of Th-228 and Ra-226, the
*power* output of the Th-228 will be 842 times that of Ra-226 initially, 
however because of this greater initial power output and the shorter
half-life, it will be used up much sooner. The actual amounts of total
energy available over the entire lifetime of the decay process has a ratio
that depends on the total energy release between the initial substance and
the final substance. To be specific, for the total decay of Ra-226->Pb-206,
the energy release is 35.33 MeV per initial Ra-226 atom. For the total decay
of Th-228->Pb-208, the energy release is 36.4 MeV per initial Th-228 atom.
So for equal numbers of atoms of Ra-226 and Th-228, the total energy ratio
is 35.33 : 36.4 . IOW the total energy release is about the same for both
substances. It's just that it is released much faster in the case of Th-228.

Usually when radioisotopes are chosen as power sources, attention is paid to
how long the device has to supply power for, and at what rate. Then a choice
of radioisotope is made that has an appropriate half-life, and then the
amount can be calculated to ensure that the power output will be sufficient.

However if you are able to alter the half life of the decay process at will,
then the design considerations change dramatically, and substances can be
chosen to meet almost any need, and selected for other reasons. E.g. suppose
that you could speed up the decay process. In that case it might be useful
to choose depleted U238 as your isotope, because there are thousands of tons
of the stuff available, and a rapid decay rate also ensures a quick
conversion into a stable end product (Pb-206 in this case), so that a nasty
environmental pollutant is cleaned up. IOW you can kill two birds with one
stone, as the saying goes.
Given that you have in the past stated that you have the ability to speed up
decay rates, this is an area where you could make a huge contribution to
benefit mankind.

>
>Aggressiveness is not my desire. It is a requirement these days.
>I will not end up like Newman or Searls. When necessary I will
>bring out the heavy amour. Your figures below prove that there is
>an enormous amount of energy to be harnessed from nature. This you
>must conceed by your own submissions here.

Unquestionably. I have never denied this. In fact the situation is even more
dramatic. The energies we have been discussing are the result of nuclear
forces, and yet even so they only represent a tiny percentage of the actual
energy that would be available if we were able to convert all mass to
energy, rather than just the tiny fraction that is converted during nuclear
processes.

>
>I will share my knowledge with my peers. However, I will take no
>hostages when it comes to defending what I know to be the truth.
>
>Additionally... I will not allow this technology to be used to
>further destroy lives... if this is at all possible.
>
A most laudable goal.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 20:19:26 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need help with strange circuit
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:19:21 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 22:54:40 EST, HLafonte@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>Robin,
>I want the fields to cancel each out when they expand so inductance will be 
>low. The current needs to flow in opposite directions for this effect.
>Thanks,
>Butch
Then I think that from combining these last two posts, you can understand
why you are having "trouble" coming up with the desired switching
"configuration". Perhaps it's natures way of letting you know that getting
"something for nothing" isn't going to be easy. (to understate the case).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 20:28:58 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 23:28:47 EST
Subject: Re: Need help with strange circuit
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In a message dated 11/13/99 10:20:49 PM Central Standard Time, 
rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au writes:

> Perhaps it's natures way of letting you know that getting
>  "something for nothing" isn't going to be easy. (to understate the case).
Robin,
If it were easy I probably would not enjoy it. In fact, it may be impossible!
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 20:58:39 1999
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Robin,

Who said anything about how long it is supposed to last?
This is entirely another issue. We have only scratched the 
secondary fusion reactions that are my main point.

So be it... I do not wish to continue with this back and
forth numbers and figures validation. The energy stored
in thorium is enormous. We have large inventories of this
element. It can yield a clean reaction without any toxic
by-product. It is also almost as abundant as lead. The bottem
line is that the peoples of earth will be using this energy
once the world evolves from it's present state of control
mentality. I only hope that is not too late when society as
a whole evolves.


         Sincerely, Bruce A. Perreault





Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 21:28:18 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> >Robin,
> >
> >Your figures here are accurate. Ra-226 vs. Th-228 being a 1:842
> >ratio rests my case. This clearly shows that 1g of radiothorium will
> >emit eight-hundred and forty-two times more energy than it's
> >"dirty" competitor Ra-226.
> 
> This is somewhat mis-stated. For equal amounts of Th-228 and Ra-226, the
> *power* output of the Th-228 will be 842 times that of Ra-226 initially,
> however because of this greater initial power output and the shorter
> half-life, it will be used up much sooner. The actual amounts of total
> energy available over the entire lifetime of the decay process has a ratio
> that depends on the total energy release between the initial substance and
> the final substance. To be specific, for the total decay of Ra-226->Pb-206,
> the energy release is 35.33 MeV per initial Ra-226 atom. For the total decay
> of Th-228->Pb-208, the energy release is 36.4 MeV per initial Th-228 atom.
> So for equal numbers of atoms of Ra-226 and Th-228, the total energy ratio
> is 35.33 : 36.4 . IOW the total energy release is about the same for both
> substances. It's just that it is released much faster in the case of Th-228.
> 
> Usually when radioisotopes are chosen as power sources, attention is paid to
> how long the device has to supply power for, and at what rate. Then a choice
> of radioisotope is made that has an appropriate half-life, and then the
> amount can be calculated to ensure that the power output will be sufficient.
> 
> However if you are able to alter the half life of the decay process at will,
> then the design considerations change dramatically, and substances can be
> chosen to meet almost any need, and selected for other reasons. E.g. suppose
> that you could speed up the decay process. In that case it might be useful
> to choose depleted U238 as your isotope, because there are thousands of tons
> of the stuff available, and a rapid decay rate also ensures a quick
> conversion into a stable end product (Pb-206 in this case), so that a nasty
> environmental pollutant is cleaned up. IOW you can kill two birds with one
> stone, as the saying goes.
> Given that you have in the past stated that you have the ability to speed up
> decay rates, this is an area where you could make a huge contribution to
> benefit mankind.
> 
> >
> >Aggressiveness is not my desire. It is a requirement these days.
> >I will not end up like Newman or Searls. When necessary I will
> >bring out the heavy amour. Your figures below prove that there is
> >an enormous amount of energy to be harnessed from nature. This you
> >must conceed by your own submissions here.
> 
> Unquestionably. I have never denied this. In fact the situation is even more
> dramatic. The energies we have been discussing are the result of nuclear
> forces, and yet even so they only represent a tiny percentage of the actual
> energy that would be available if we were able to convert all mass to
> energy, rather than just the tiny fraction that is converted during nuclear
> processes.
> 
> >
> >I will share my knowledge with my peers. However, I will take no
> >hostages when it comes to defending what I know to be the truth.
> >
> >Additionally... I will not allow this technology to be used to
> >further destroy lives... if this is at all possible.
> >
> A most laudable goal.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 13 21:06:37 1999
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didi feberrus wrote:
> 
> o.k. for awhile now it seems that the detector valve and the switching valve
> are identical.


No... they are not the same.


>
> in your circuit there is the detector made of lead oxide and
> iron oxide then there are the switching tubes which control the frequency of
> the circuit. these switchers are the star mode or the glo-regulator. however
> i have not been able to determine exactly how they all work together. now
> there is a difference bettween these two tubes. but sometimes they become
> interchangeable in these back and forth postings. for easy use we will call
> the detector DV and the switcher SV. thoriated electrodes for the star-mode
> are what i will use to make the SV


The detector/valve is where the energy comes. This can either be an
atomic
type cell, or as in the Prototype 2000, an energy window for an external
source of energy. The "SV" tube is for effeciently switching the
captured
energy from the detector/valve to a tank circuit that transforms the 
voltage/frequency to our load requirements.

Detector/valves may even be designed to incorporate alpha-fusion.
This is where the confusion is created. Because a number of sources
may be utilized but not depart from the spirit of the design of this
type of energy converter.


        -Bruce A. Perreault

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: radiothorium thread
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:47:35 +1100
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 23:56:24 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
Hi Bruce,

>Robin,
>
>Who said anything about how long it is supposed to last?
>This is entirely another issue. We have only scratched the 
>secondary fusion reactions that are my main point.

And it is also the alpha fusion that interests me. I was not aware that this
occurred to any appreciable degree. Do you have any figures on the
percentage of alphas that actually undergo fusion reactions with the
beryllium?
Also a fusion reaction that produces neutrons presents many of the same
problems as a fission reaction. Have you experimented with other substances
besides beryllium? A really valuable (IMO) substance would be one that
produced a proton rather than a neutron. The reason being that the kinetic
energy of the proton could probably be converted directly into electrical
power with high efficiency, rather than going through the wasteful
intermediary of heat.
E.g. B-10 + He-4 -> C-13 + H + 4 MeV might be interesting.
(though B-10 + He-4 -> N-14 + 11.6 MeV might also happen,
or also B-10 + He-4 -> N-13 + neutron + 1 MeV).

>
>So be it... I do not wish to continue with this back and
>forth numbers and figures validation. The energy stored
>in thorium is enormous. We have large inventories of this
>element. It can yield a clean reaction without any toxic
>by-product. It is also almost as abundant as lead. The bottem
>line is that the peoples of earth will be using this energy
>once the world evolves from it's present state of control
>mentality. I only hope that is not too late when society as
>a whole evolves.

And I'm sure they would use it, if they knew of any way to utilise it
without subjecting it to fission. The problem at present of course, is that
natural thorium (i.e. Th-232) has a half-life of 14 billion years (which is
why there is still plenty of it around). IOW to get say 1 Ci of activity
from natural Th-232, you need to have 9000 kg. Needless to say, this is a
bit unwieldy. In order for it to be really useful, we would need to be able
to speed up the decay rate. Perhaps you can help?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 00:31:43 1999
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Hi Robin,

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:04:23 +0200, hamdi ucar wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> >>
> >[snip]
[snip]


> Note that in a previous post in the thread, Ronald wrote ">You can see what we
> discovered at http://www.atgroup.org/tdpcd.htm
> ". My post above was a response to that.

Ok, From your point, you are not wrong at all.:) But now put yourself instead of techlab which obtained 2x plus figures by insertion of the xenon tube. Great excitements. Probably from their cumulative experiences, they are confident the effect caused pur


ely by the plasma. It would be a discovery indeed. But if they wish to document it well and try to give solid proof for the plasma phenomenon, they need to perform large number of experiments, and need to consume considerable resources, and after than mon


th they could write a report that will proof the effect strongly. Maybe this is a better way to work, but this not the case now. 

> Perhaps my expectations were too high. I expected proof (and hence went
> looking for it), while only an overview was being presented.

They think they have the proof in their mind. But from the external point, we have too many unknowns of the experiment, and these figures give us only a "possibility" of plasma phenomenon.

Even working hard, it is nearly impossible to reflect all observations, all the  things from the experiments to the report.  So the only way to obtain to proof is try by ourselves, but there are again considerable difficulties on this.


> >The theme here is, try it yourself and share your result with others if you wish. You may criticize Techlab for not offering an complete report on scientific publishing grade, but this is not required at this time, as they only share their ongoing expe


riments. If phase figures on I/O flow are needed to understand the phenomenon and interpret results, ask them simply and they may provide them, if they can.
> 
> I don't expect scientific publishing grade, just enough information to be able
> to draw a conclusion as to whether or not something interesting may be
> happening.
> 
> >
> >Please dont mix Techlab works with "somebody" which had never accepted to give valid figures to proof their repeated claims over years.
> 
> Where have I done this? I don't recall having compared them to anyone. In fact
> if anything it is you who are doing this now yourself.
> 

No, you not did not of course. May I should say "A reader may mix them with others when reads your letter. :) Anyway, I apologize.

[snip]

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

Regards,
hamdi ucar

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 00:37:08 1999
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Subject: Re: The parametric overunity rotator
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>On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 17:25:48 +0100, W.D. BAUER wrote:
>
>>Hello All !
>>
>>I uploaded my new article in Zip-format rotator.zip in J.L.Naudin archive at
>>http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ 
>
>All I get at this address is a request to register.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
>

O.k. ! Who wants to read the article in advance as e-mail preprint without
joining J.L. email group please contact me personally !

Best regards

Dieter Bauer

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 01:09:51 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.7bf306cc.255fd654@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:09:40 EST
Subject: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

I have posted in my web site the picture of the Closed Loop Geet FP device 
from Russell McCabe at :

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 01:38:54 1999
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Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 19:49:00 +1100
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From: Allan Alderson <adsaa@turboweb.net.au>
Subject: felis' counterwound toridal coil
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Hi felis, 
The counterwound toridal coil (antenna) seems like an interesting device.
I hope you get some anomalous results! I'm not sure what counterwound is.
Do you know of a web site which explains it in more detail? I remember
seeing an antenna? which had a clockwise helical coil 'up' and then a
counter-clockwise helical coil back 'down'. (I forget its name, cacadus?
).
I have been thinking about winding a toroid axially. 'Axially-wound' as in
90 to a normal wind. Has any one here ever wound one? I wonder what the
polarisation would be? Signals can be circularly polarised but can they be
toroidally polarised? Probably not.

      -  Allan.
---- ---- ---- ----
Please reply with a 'text-only' message.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 04:27:54 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
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> 
> O.k. ! Who wants to read the article in advance as e-mail preprint without
> joining J.L. email group please contact me personally !
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Dieter Bauer
> 

I do.


Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 08:15:03 1999
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Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:10:08 -0500
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To all,

I have cleaned up the Avramenko Patent and
have converted it to a PDF for easy viewing.

http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/O09323907.pdf


You can download the Acrobat Reader for free
at http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 08:33:15 1999
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Robin,

The first plutonium initiator used a berylium wire
coated with polonium. This made for an instant
neutron source.

We could breed Th-233 (fissile fuel) from Th-232 (fertile fuel)
using the above principle. Using a radiothorium source for our
thoron source... a negatively charged berylium will attract and
absorb this gas... react... generate the required neutrons at the
flip of a switch. Once the switch is turned off the source would
decay in about a three or four day time period. This is one method
to effect nuclear changes electronically.

Reactors can also be built in such a way that they do not output
heat. Instead they can output extreme voltage that can be converted
very efficiently by a glow regulator. The reactor can be designed so
that there is zero neutron emission. Present day reactors are online
for one reason... to breed weapon-grade materials.


     -Bruce A. Perreault



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 23:56:24 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> >Robin,
> >
> >Who said anything about how long it is supposed to last?
> >This is entirely another issue. We have only scratched the
> >secondary fusion reactions that are my main point.
> 
> And it is also the alpha fusion that interests me. I was not aware that this
> occurred to any appreciable degree. Do you have any figures on the
> percentage of alphas that actually undergo fusion reactions with the
> beryllium?
> Also a fusion reaction that produces neutrons presents many of the same
> problems as a fission reaction. Have you experimented with other substances
> besides beryllium? A really valuable (IMO) substance would be one that
> produced a proton rather than a neutron. The reason being that the kinetic
> energy of the proton could probably be converted directly into electrical
> power with high efficiency, rather than going through the wasteful
> intermediary of heat.
> E.g. B-10 + He-4 -> C-13 + H + 4 MeV might be interesting.
> (though B-10 + He-4 -> N-14 + 11.6 MeV might also happen,
> or also B-10 + He-4 -> N-13 + neutron + 1 MeV).
> 
> >
> >So be it... I do not wish to continue with this back and
> >forth numbers and figures validation. The energy stored
> >in thorium is enormous. We have large inventories of this
> >element. It can yield a clean reaction without any toxic
> >by-product. It is also almost as abundant as lead. The bottem
> >line is that the peoples of earth will be using this energy
> >once the world evolves from it's present state of control
> >mentality. I only hope that is not too late when society as
> >a whole evolves.
> 
> And I'm sure they would use it, if they knew of any way to utilise it
> without subjecting it to fission. The problem at present of course, is that
> natural thorium (i.e. Th-232) has a half-life of 14 billion years (which is
> why there is still plenty of it around). IOW to get say 1 Ci of activity
> from natural Th-232, you need to have 9000 kg. Needless to say, this is a
> bit unwieldy. In order for it to be really useful, we would need to be able
> to speed up the decay rate. Perhaps you can help?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 09:02:04 1999
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From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock)
Newsgroups: list.freenrg1
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Plasma Processing
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:38:12 -0500
Organization: is mostly via piles
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With the recant treads on plasma I though some one might be
interested in the following:

The American Vacuum Society is sponsoring "International
Symposium on Plasma Process-Induced Damage", May 22-24, 2000
in Santa Clara, California.  http://www.p2id.org

"The Symposium will cover all plasma process-induced
phenomena that influence the electrical behavior of a silicon
device or circuit."


-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone,
Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure,
KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
                         http://www.uCOS-II.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 12:39:07 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:38:49 EST
Subject: Re: felis' counterwound toridal coil
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In a message dated 11/14/99 1:39:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
adsaa@turboweb.net.au writes:

> I have been thinking about winding a toroid axially. 'Axially-wound' as in
>  90 to a normal wind. Has any one here ever wound one? I wonder what the
>  polarisation would be? Signals can be circularly polarised but can they be
>  toroidally polarised? Probably not.
>  
>        -  Allan.

Interesting idea.  Conventional theory would suggest the B field vectors 
inside the toroid would almost add to zero.  If so the expected result is 
that you would end up with something which would behave very much like an N 
turn coil (air core), where N is the number of turns you put on the toroid.   
But I doubt that the configuration has been studied much, if at all, for 
unexpected characteristics.
                                                                              
                  Ken

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: felis' counterwound toridal coil
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Hi Allan and Ken,

The use of a poloidal winding along with the usual toroidal winding has been
the subject of several patents.
If the poloidal and toroidal windings are driven at quadrature the B field
rotates around the torus with zero hysteresis according to the patents.

Fred

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04595843__

A transformer utilizing a rotating flux for saturating the entire core. The
transformer uses a core configured such that a vector sum of the induction
produced by two windings in the core rotates through 360. This is
accomplished by arranging the component induction vectors to be
perpendicular and the source voltages associated with each of the component
induction vectors to be 90 out of phase. If the inductions are of equal
magnitude and the vector sum is sufficient to saturate the core, rotation of
the vector sum saturates the entire core and the transformer experiences a
very low or nearly negligible hysteresis losses. Various topological
configurations for the core, including a toroid, are described. The
transformer windings can be arranged for single, two-phase, three-phase, or
multi-phase operation.

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04639610__

A rotating flux transformer having at least two magnetic cores, each in the
form of a torus, with each magnetic core having poloidal and toroidal
windings. The need for breaking the torus and bringing out leads from the
poloidal winding is eliminated by passing each torus through the core window
of the remaining torus, or tori. Each poloidal winding is shorted, with the
toroidal winding, or windings, of the other magnetic core or cores, inducing
an excitation voltage into each shorted poloidal winding which is 90 out of
phase with the voltage applied to the toroidal winding on the same magnetic
core.

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04638177__

A rotating flux transformer which includes a magnetic core having poloidal
primary and secondary windings and toroidal primary and secondary windings.
Quadrature flux is produced in the magnetic core by connecting one end of
the poloidal primary winding to the center of the toroidal primary winding.
The quadrature flux combines vectorially to produce a rotating induction
vector in the magnetic core.


>In a message dated 11/14/99 1:39:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>adsaa@turboweb.net.au writes:
>
>> I have been thinking about winding a toroid axially. 'Axially-wound' as
in
>>  90 to a normal wind. Has any one here ever wound one? I wonder what the
>>  polarisation would be? Signals can be circularly polarised but can they
be
>>  toroidally polarised? Probably not.
>>
>>        -  Allan.
>
>Interesting idea.  Conventional theory would suggest the B field vectors
>inside the toroid would almost add to zero.  If so the expected result is
>that you would end up with something which would behave very much like an N
>turn coil (air core), where N is the number of turns you put on the toroid.
>But I doubt that the configuration has been studied much, if at all, for
>unexpected characteristics.
>
>                  Ken
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 14:57:29 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Clean Nuclear Reactions
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:54:17 +1100
Organization: Improving
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ax.com> <382E40F8.68E2@cyberportal.net> <CUMuODp+P2obYoVbpTVJHE3WAoTw@4ax.com> <382EE32F.2F24@cyberportal.net>
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On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:28:31 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
Hi Bruce,

>Robin,
>
>The first plutonium initiator used a berylium wire
>coated with polonium. This made for an instant
>neutron source.

I am sure it did. This says little however about the efficiency of the
process. You don't need many neutrons to get a chain reaction started.

>
>We could breed Th-233 (fissile fuel) from Th-232 (fertile fuel)
>using the above principle. 

First, Th-233 is not actually fissile, but it does decay rapidly into U-233
which is. 
Second the only reason for breeding a fissile fuel can be in order to use it
in a nuclear reactor. And we already have nuclear reactors, and we know
there are lots of problems with them, not the least of which is what to do
with the inevitable gamut of radioisotopes that are produced.
Third, nuclear reactors themselves already produce huge numbers of neutrons,
so if we really wanted to go down that path we could use the reactors
themselves to breed the U-233. (This is a variant of the breeder reactor
program).

>Using a radiothorium source for our
>thoron source... a negatively charged berylium will attract and
>absorb this gas... react... generate the required neutrons at the
>flip of a switch. Once the switch is turned off the source would
>decay in about a three or four day time period. 

Yes, largely due to the 10 hour half life of Pb-212.

>This is one method
>to effect nuclear changes electronically.

True, however nuclear changes can also be regulated reasonably effectively
by mechanical means, as is currently done in nuclear reactors. What I am
trying to say here, is that it is not obvious to me that electronic
regulation of neutron production is such a great advantage.

>
>Reactors can also be built in such a way that they do not output
>heat. Instead they can output extreme voltage that can be converted
>very efficiently by a glow regulator. 

Ok, now this is interesting technology. Could you be a little more specific?

>The reactor can be designed so
>that there is zero neutron emission. 

Ok, but presumably you are not talking about a fission reactor here, (the
term "reactor" in the common vocabulary nowadays usually refers to a nuclear
fission reactor).

I take it then, that the reactor you are referring to relies upon alpha
decay, and as such is dependant upon a source of such material.
If this is to be widely used, then that source will need to be considerable,
and reasonably cheap. What do you have in mind?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 15:32:09 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.8319d80f.2560a064@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:31:48 EST
Subject: bifilar tests indicate magnetic fields present
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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My tests indicate magnetic fields extend out from bifilar coil but cancel 
each out. Is this in agreement with you people on the various lists that have 
done testing with these coils? 
Thanks,
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 15:35:51 1999
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Subject: Re: felis' counterwound toridal coil
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Hi Allen and Ken,
At 03:38 PM 11/14/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/14/99 1:39:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
>adsaa@turboweb.net.au writes:
>
>> I have been thinking about winding a toroid axially. 'Axially-wound' as in
>>  90 to a normal wind. Has any one here ever wound one? I wonder what the
>>  polarisation would be? Signals can be circularly polarised but can they be
>>  toroidally polarised? Probably not.
>>  

Does 90 deg. you mean turns roughly at a constant radius, but wound so the
toroid surface is covered by the wires? (following the surface like the B
field lines in a normal toroid.) A small portion would look like a
solenoid, so I guess the total would behave similarly.
>>        -  Allan.
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 20:40:32 1999
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From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:37:13 GMT
Organization: Miller and Associates
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Hi Jean-Louis,

On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:09:40 EST, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

>Dear All,
>
>I have posted in my web site the picture of the Closed Loop Geet FP device 
>from Russell McCabe at :
>
>http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm

I used to think I knew the idea behind the GEET process, but I sure
don't understand a closed-loop version.  Is there an explanation
somewhere on the 'net?

-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines  (CDP, KB0ZDF)

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 14 23:40:09 1999
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--=====================_942678958==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The article I loaded up at 
http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ 
(please register if you want to read it) 
contains only the principle. This is very simple and not new! Have a
rotating flywheel, whose moment of inertia can vary. The cycle is done by
speeding it up and slowing it down. The moment of inertia during slowing
down in bigger than during speeding up. So you get a work gaining hysteresis.
The 
In the article I only showed the principle. 
The inertia is augmented by enlarging the diameter of the masses by its own
centrifugal forces. These are counteracted either by springs or by the force
of gravity.
It is clear that real working units have to be multiplied and are symmetric
due avoid forces on the bearing.
I think this application is possible mainly for continously working machines
as power plants of generator.
The same effect can be applied to fluid motion cycles. A vortex turbine as
proposed by Schauberger or Tesla pumps, a pump whose fluid inertia moment
decreases lesser than Tesla pumps (i.e. diameter of fluid motion remains
constant) acts as generator.

Will appear at http:www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator.htm

Stay tuned

Dieter Bauer

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--=====================_942678958==_--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 00:16:14 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: the parametric rotator - longer abstract here
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:03:57 -0800
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Hi Dieter ,

Yes, I came up with something like this about two years ago, but I was
convinced it would not work by some on free energy list. I'll have to
re-read their reasons for this. I am still not sure.

Fred


>The article I loaded up at
>http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/
>(please register if you want to read it)
>contains only the principle. This is very simple and not new! Have a
>rotating flywheel, whose moment of inertia can vary. The cycle is done by
>speeding it up and slowing it down. The moment of inertia during slowing
>down in bigger than during speeding up. So you get a work gaining
hysteresis.
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 00:38:25 1999
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Message-ID: <382FC4C7.12886C3C@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:31:03 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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The system you wrote is very close to gyroscope of alernating radius, by
Dr. Poliakov.

Alexander
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 04:06:08 1999
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JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb:
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I have posted in my web site the picture of the Closed Loop Geet FP device
> from Russell McCabe at :
> 
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm

Does it alse run with JUST water or how much % gasoline must be present
?

Regards, Stefan.

> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Jean-Louis Naudin

-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 05:39:06 1999
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Subject: Nuclear Source
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> > This is one method to effect nuclear 
> > changes electronically.
> 
> True, however nuclear changes can also be regulated reasonably effectively
> by mechanical means, as is currently done in nuclear reactors. What I am
> trying to say here, is that it is not obvious to me that electronic
> regulation of neutron production is such a great advantage.


Because you can regulate fuel consumption as your load requires it.
This will impede fuel burn when power is not being consumed by your
loads.


> >
> > Reactors can also be built in such a way that they do not output
> > heat. Instead they can output extreme voltage that can be converted
> > very efficiently by a glow regulator.
> 
> Ok, now this is interesting technology. Could you be a little more specific?


U.S. Pat. No. 2,728,867 details a method to obtain our objective.
It is shown in this patent that a typical 105 pound fuel rod will
yield 100,000 watts of electrical energy. Moray's 50,000 watt unit
weighing no more than sixty pounds is right in line with this figure.
This is based on a 10% efficiency factor.


Obviously, we do not need this much power for our homes. It is not hard
to reason that 10 lbs. of material would yield 10,000 watts of
electrical
power for home use. Add another two pounds for conversion componants.
The
case may also weigh an additional five pounds. This is equal to a twenty
pound bag of potatoes giving us 10 kilowatts of power.

However, the remaining 90%, according to the referenced patent is in
the form of heat. Even so... this could be recovered by heating the
water in a specially designed water heater/electric generator.


> 
> >The reactor can be designed so
> >that there is zero neutron emission.
> 
> Ok, but presumably you are not talking about a fission reactor here, (the
> term "reactor" in the common vocabulary nowadays usually refers to a nuclear
> fission reactor).
> 
> I take it then, that the reactor you are referring to relies upon alpha
> decay, and as such is dependant upon a source of such material.
> If this is to be widely used, then that source will need to be considerable,
> and reasonably cheap. What do you have in mind?


Yes... alpha fusion with the controlled electronic release of neutrons.
The released neutrons when they bombard fully depleted uranium results
in secondary beta particles (electricity).


         -Bruce A. Perreault


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 06:49:07 1999
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:45:25 +0100
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Subject: New: The parametric overunity rotator- Online !
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There is a new overunity article on the net by Dieter Bauer at my server

Title: The parametric overunity rotator - a clue to many overunity
claims

It can be loaded from the theory page of my server
at 
http://www.overunity.com/theory.htm

or directly from

   http://ww.overunity.com/rotator/rotator.htm


Abstract: 
A simple mechanical setup is proposed and calculated which demonstrates
overunity behaviour due to parametric changing 
moment of inertia. The principle of the parametric rotator seem to be
applicable to many overunity claims as Schauberger vortex turbine, van
Platen centrifuge, Wuerth gears and
Amin cycle. 
-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 06:51:11 1999
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Sorry , their was missing a "w"

>   http://ww.overunity.com/rotator/rotator.htm

 http://www.overunity.com/rotator/rotator.htm


Abstract: 
A simple mechanical setup is proposed and calculated which demonstrates
overunity behaviour due to parametric changing 
moment of inertia. The principle of the parametric rotator seem to be
applicable to many overunity claims as Schauberger vortex turbine, van
Platen centrifuge, Wuerth gears and
Amin cycle. 
-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

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From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 <MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov>
Subject: Re: felis' counterwound toridal coil
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All,

I bought a contrawound toroidal helical antenna (CTHA) from a company by 
the name of IAS Communications Inc.

	"www.iascom.com"

It does give significantly better reception, at the same elevation, than my 
rabbit ears do.  I'm going to get a bunch of these for my family for 
Christamas, those that can't afford cable.

Bill
webriggs@concentric.net
briggs@XLNsystems.com

> I have been thinking about winding a toroid axially. 'Axially-wound' as 
> in 900 to a normal wind. Has any one here ever wound one? I wonder what 
> the polarisation would be? Signals can be circularly polarised but can 
> they be toroidally polarised? Probably not.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 12:59:28 1999
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Subject: What do you think will happen?
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Take a look at the attached drawing. It is conventional transformer except 
that voltage/current go into both coils at the same time. Now notice that the 
core is cut in half and there is a 1/8" air gap between the two sections of 
core. Do you think that even though flux is flowing across the air gap in two 
different directions at the same time that the two sections will be attracted 
together by the magentic fields flowing in the core? If this is so, then I 
believe there could be something very important to be learned from this.
Thanks,
Butch

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 17:40:16 1999
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From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
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Subject: Re: What do you think will happen?
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:17:00 +1030
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Been a while since I had the Access to enjoy the postings, but.. "I'm Back".


Hmm...

  But the way I see it, there IS no changing flux, both of the windings have
(we assume after
switch on) reached a stable point, unless either one or the other of the
coil circuits is
interrupted - then there should be no changing flux across the air-gap, the
source is
shown as being of stable potential - (D.C battery).


 O.k that's how I read it, now lets hear what the real answer should be.

 Just another 0.02 from...

   Glenville.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 19:38:20 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:34:55 EST
Subject: Re: What do you think will happen?
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In a message dated 11/15/99 12:58:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
HLafonte@aol.com writes:

> Take a look at the attached drawing. It is conventional transformer except 
>  that voltage/current go into both coils at the same time. Now notice that 
> the 
>  core is cut in half and there is a 1/8" air gap between the two sections 
of 
>  core. Do you think that even though flux is flowing across the air gap in 
> two 
>  different directions at the same time that the two sections will be 
> attracted 
>  together by the magentic fields flowing in the core? If this is so, then I 
>  believe there could be something very important to be learned from this.
>  Thanks,
>  Butch

   Well, the conventional answer is no, there will be no attraction, except 
for possibly something very very small from fringing or unbalanced fields.  
Superposition should hold, so the field in the gap will be essentially zero.  
 I think that should be the case whether the fields are building up, static, 
or decreasing together.
                                                               Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 20:35:21 1999
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From: dave.tingley@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:05:02 -0500
Subject: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
Message-ID: <19991115.071104.223.1.dave.tingley@juno.com>
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Do you have any more details other than the picture? Also just so we are
clear on what closed loop operation means here, is it running
indefinitely without using up the fuel/water mixture? Or is it closed
loop like a steam engine where external energy is still being applied and
the water is just being recycled through a radiator?

I thought I understood that the GEET burned the fuel more efficiently by
breaking down the hydrocarbons, but is something else entirely. 

Dave
On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:09:40 EST JNaudin509@aol.com writes:
> Dear All,
> 
> I have posted in my web site the picture of the Closed Loop Geet FP 
> device 
> from Russell McCabe at :
> 
> http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Jean-Louis Naudin
> 

================================================
dave.tingley@juno.com
http://dave_tingley.tripod.com
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them." --Thomas Jefferson

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 15 22:37:12 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:21:46 EST
Subject: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
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Dans un courrier dat du 16/11/99 05:37:50 Paris, Madrid, 
dave.tingley@juno.com a crit :

> Do you have any more details other than the picture? Also just so we are
>  clear on what closed loop operation means here, is it running
>  indefinitely without using up the fuel/water mixture? Or is it closed
>  loop like a steam engine where external energy is still being applied and
>  the water is just being recycled through a radiator?

Hi Dave

You may ask directly Russel,

The Russel McCabe Email is : xtr442383@xtra.co.nz

Regards

Jean-Louis Naudin

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 16 08:36:22 1999
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-------- Original Message --------
Betreff: Re: [Fwd: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture]
Datum: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:23:09 +1300
Von: "Russell McCabe" <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
An: "Stefan Hartmann" <harti@harti.com>
Referenzen: <3830038D.C3AFBBE5@harti.com>

not yet mixture of approx. 1/3 diesel 1/3 petrol and 1/3 water . I was
surprised it actually went. (And one day may be just water.)

Russell

Thanks for the answer.

----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
To: <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 1:58 AM
Subject: [Fwd: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture]


>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Betreff: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
> Datum: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:32:17 EST
> Von: JNaudin509@aol.com
> An: harti@harti.com
>
> Dans un courrier dat du 15/11/99 13:06:10 Paris, Madrid,
> harti@harti.com a
> crit :
>
> > Does it also run with JUST water or how much % gasoline must be present
> >  ?
> >
> >  Regards, Stefan.
> >
>
> You may ask directly Russel,
>
> The Russel McCabe Email is : xtr442383@xtra.co.nz
>
> Regards
>
> Jean-Louis
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 16 11:10:27 1999
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Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> -------- Original Message --------
> Betreff: Re: [Fwd: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture]
> Datum: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:23:09 +1300
> Von: "Russell McCabe" <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
> An: "Stefan Hartmann" <harti@harti.com>
> Referenzen: <3830038D.C3AFBBE5@harti.com>
>
> not yet mixture of approx. 1/3 diesel 1/3 petrol and 1/3 water . I was
> surprised it actually went. (And one day may be just water.)
>
> Russell
>

Russell,

I suppose you are working for water fuel car? Is it real device now?

Alexander

> Thanks for the answer.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
> To: <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 1:58 AM
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture]
>
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Betreff: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
> > Datum: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:32:17 EST
> > Von: JNaudin509@aol.com
> > An: harti@harti.com
> >
> > Dans un courrier dat du 15/11/99 13:06:10 Paris, Madrid,
> > harti@harti.com a
> > crit :
> >
> > > Does it also run with JUST water or how much % gasoline must be present
> > >  ?
> > >
> > >  Regards, Stefan.
> > >
> >
> > You may ask directly Russel,
> >
> > The Russel McCabe Email is : xtr442383@xtra.co.nz
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Jean-Louis
> >



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 16 11:51:48 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
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Subject: Trans. : A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
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Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 16/11/99 19:32:47 Paris, Madrid,=20
xtr442383@xtra.co.nz a =E9crit :

>    My interpretation of a closed loop is the motor is running using exhaus=
t
>  gases and the fuel mixture alone, with out any additional air from the
>  outside.
>  I still have a few things I want to change yet  which I believe will=20
improve
>  the
>  bubler which should give a move constant supply of fuel vapour.
>     I have had this motor running for a total of 6 hours so far,4 hours no=
ne
>  stop and one hour in what I call a closed loop. As I only made things on
>  Saturday morning, took a few short cuts and have constructed the reactor=20=
by
>  welding rather the using the screwed fittings as shown in plans. Can take
>  more pictures of part later if you want as I feel it is a much simpler wa=
y
>  to go about it.
> =20
>  Hope this helps
>  Regards Russell


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From: "Russell McCabe" <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
To: <JNaudin509@aol.com>
References: <0.10b93269.256251bc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trans. : A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:55:14 +1300
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   My interpretation of a closed loop is the motor is running using exhaust
gases and the fuel mixture alone, with out any additional air from the
outside.
I still have a few things I want to change yet  which I believe will improve
the
bubler which should give a move constant supply of fuel vapour.
   I have had this motor running for a total of 6 hours so far,4 hours none
stop and one hour in what I call a closed loop. As I only made things on
Saturday morning, took a few short cuts and have constructed the reactor by
welding rather the using the screwed fittings as shown in plans. Can take
more pictures of part later if you want as I feel it is a much simpler way
to go about it.

Hope this helps
Regards Russell
----- Original Message -----
From: <JNaudin509@aol.com>
To: <xtr442383@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:20 PM
Subject: Trans. : A closed loop GEET FP device Picture


Dans un courrier dat du 16/11/99 05:37:50 Paris, Madrid,
dave.tingley@juno.com a crit :

> Sujet :    Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
>  Date :   16/11/99 05:37:50 Paris, Madrid
>  From:    dave.tingley@juno.com
>  Reply-to:    freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>  To:  freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>
>  Do you have any more details other than the picture? Also just so we are
>  clear on what closed loop operation means here, is it running
>  indefinitely without using up the fuel/water mixture? Or is it closed
>  loop like a steam engine where external energy is still being applied and
>  the water is just being recycled through a radiator?
>
>  I thought I understood that the GEET burned the fuel more efficiently by
>  breaking down the hydrocarbons, but is something else entirely.
>
>  Dave





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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 16 22:20:24 1999
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Message-ID: <38324744.7192AE75@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:12:21 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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CC: rivas@theriver.com, Berkant Goeksel <bgoeksel@physik.TU-Berlin.DE>
Subject: Re: plans and workind models of the pump
References: <381FB75B.6487C871@keelynet.com>
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Dear Sirs,

I spent some time to talk with Paul and his plans are "too good to be true"
What is your opinion?

Also he can not talk about device scheme or plan for sale. Jerry, please,
let us know what is the idea in general for this kind of motor?

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov

Jerry W. Decker wrote:

> Hi Folks!
>
> Received the following from Paul regarding his permission to release a
> private post to me earlier;
>
> Jerry...You may distribute this Info to your Discussion Group and
> Network Members -Also you may distribute "Authorization to Build Motors"
> - which I also sent you !!!  Paul LeBreton
>
> "We plan on releasing this technology in the form of a Book with
> Blueprints for $69.95 and also sell Coffee Mug sized
> "Mini-Motor/Alternators" in the Millions of Quantity All this is to be a
> Surprise to the World on January 1st, 2001 When our Full-Sized
> "Millennium Motors" are also released to the Marketplace !!!"
>
> ( here is the authorization he is offering to those who sign
> non-disclosures )
>
> Authorization to Build Motors...
>
> This is to authorize any person(s) who have entered into a
> "Non-Disclosure Agreement" with Robert "Paul" LeBreton regards Trade
> Secrets revealing the details necessary to construct his
> "Self-Sustaining Permanent Magnet Motors" -To construct such motors for
> their own personal use ...
>
> These "Demo" Motors are still to be regarded as being Trade Secrets and
> are not to be sold or given to Third Parties without the written
> authorization of Robert "Paul" LeBreton...
>
> Here are some tips which might assist with the prototyping: My motors
> would run very fast (-perhaps approaching turbine speeds) and would need
> to be well-balanced, and as most run continuously, these would need be
> connected to clutches & gearboxes -in front of their loads...
>
> Alternately; Magnet Wire could be wound between the Stator Magnets to
> create an
> "integral" alternator -this, connected to a heavy load, would act as a
> Drag on the motor's RPM without requiring gearbox or clutch or separate
> alternator:  At the RPM the motors run at; this would not be the 60 Hz
> output required by some loads; But it would provide a convenient means
> to measure the Energy output of these motors...
>
> Shielding around the un-used magnet poles would "effectively" increase
> the magnet(s) MgOe ratings; And the use of 26 or 45 MgOe "Magnequench"
> Permanent Magnets is highly recommended... ( NdFeB Ceramic)
>
> Robert "Paul" LeBreton
>
> Paul LeBreton, CEO
> Psitronics Group Systems, Int'l.
> Magnetic Transitions Co.
> 2901 State Hwy. 6,
> HC 77, Box 42
> Laguna, NM  87026-9701
> http://home.earthlink.net/~wizzard9
> email:  wizzard9@earthlink.net
> --
>      Jerry Wayne Decker  -  jdecker@keelynet.com
>              http://www.keelynet.com
>              from an Art to a Science
>    Voice : (214)324-8741 -  FAX : (214)324-3501
>              KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716
>        Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 05:19:15 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:20:31 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Subject: Where is Helium-5?
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I have not been able to find helium-5 in the books today.
Got around to doing a search today for helium-5. I had
assumed that it was on the books. To my surprise this
isotope is not listed anywhere. I have found a nature
source of this element and can prove that it exists. It
is the source for ALL radioactive phenomenon. Just think,
anyone can create U-235 without all the hoopla that goes
anlong with it's extraction. This should get the government
lurkers on these three lists twitching.

Any who... while I was looking for helium-5 in my outdated
encyclopedia set (I don't trust the revised versions)... I
found another interesting tibit... As we all know berylium
will fuse with an alpha particle emitting neutrons. What I
did not know is that on average two 1/2 neutrons are emitted
per fusion reaction! Does this sound familar? What came to
a complete shock to me is that Bismuth does the same thing!

Guess who was using bismuth in his "fission material?"
You got it... Moray. The bismuth in the formula did not
make complete sense to me until now. Now I have the whole
story... this I am freely giving to my peers, hot, right
off the press. Why? Because we are out of time folks. We
need to have this energy to survive... it doesant matter if
the worst oppression in history is right around the corner
or is just paranoid thinking. It is time that we evolve as
a species. We need to set up colonies either in our oceans
or somewhere out there on one of the other planets. Our Moon
would be my first bet... there is plenty of helium-3 there.
Our small planet is overwelmed with life... the Camel's back
is ready to break... Come on... get your thinking out of the
land of OZ. Take the courage to cut your losses and break free
into a bold new world. Life is too short! Let's be the generation
that had the courage and faith that save the human race from
extinction.


       -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 07:50:50 1999
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"Alexander V. Frolov" wrote:

> Dear Sirs,
>
> I spent some time to talk with Paul and his plans are "too good to be true"
> What is your opinion?
>
> Also he can not talk about device scheme or plan for sale. Jerry, please,
> let us know what is the idea in general for this kind of motor?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Alexander V. Frolov
>
> Jerry W. Decker wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks!
> >
> > Received the following from Paul regarding his permission to release a
> > private post to me earlier;
> >
> > Jerry...You may distribute this Info to your Discussion Group and
> > Network Members -Also you may distribute "Authorization to Build Motors"
> > - which I also sent you !!!  Paul LeBreton

Dr. Frolov-

 I think it's fairly obvious from some of the other posts to KeelyNet that Mr.
LeBreton has not completed a working OU prototype. Unfortunately, his website
is a little amateurish, the "conceptual model" pictures are really just ad-copy
of
existing commercial products that are powered by small internal combustion
engines!  As we say in the west: "Where's the BEEF?"

 As for the general idea, eh...it's difficult to say what his notions are
regarding the
design. It might be a perm. magnet device, lot's of those around. Or it might
be
something similar to the Rory Johnson designs - all of which rely on the
unsymetrical
regauging, as Col. Bearden terms it. It might be something similar to the Papp
engine
since he does mention piston-engines "rebuilt to run practically forever" on
his web
page. It is not obvious to me that he has made a full-disclosure to anyone, and
it
wouldn't serve much purpose until and unless a working prototype were to be
constructed.

 If LeBreton is serious..he'll join in a healthy round of Internet open-forum
style
discussions, here and on KeelyNet, followed by  confidential non-disclosure
signings, such as Bruce Perreault, JLN and so many others have done with their
pioneering research efforts. I'm sure Jerry Decker (and a lot of others too)
have
already told him that.

I wouldn't get real excited by this one..too few details, too sketchy.

 All the best,

         Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 07:59:31 1999
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Subject: Bismuth and Barium (was Re: Where is Helium-5?)
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> Any who... while I was looking for helium-5 in my outdated
> encyclopedia set (I don't trust the revised versions)... I
> found another interesting tibit... As we all know berylium
> will fuse with an alpha particle emitting neutrons. What I
> did not know is that on average two 1/2 neutrons are emitted
> per fusion reaction! Does this sound familar? What came to
> a complete shock to me is that Bismuth does the same thing!

note the configuration of the nucleus..

>
>
> Guess who was using bismuth in his "fission material?"
> You got it... Moray. The bismuth in the formula did not
> make complete sense to me until now. Now I have the whole
> story... this I am freely giving to my peers, hot, right
> off the press.

SNIP!

 Psst! Hey Bruce!...try adding some barium to the mix..

-Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 10:44:12 1999
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References: <38315afa.4af617a8@globalcrossing.com> <3831D967.4C3B@cyberportal.net> <3832D21A.EB963386@info2000.net> <3832f154.e8f3f950@globalcrossing.com>
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MARTIN WOLFF wrote:
> 
> Do you feel you will have a need for sub hertz to mega hertz or is it
> currently just a 'nice to have'? Won't the primary coil need to be tuned
> for every frequency change?


Here is something that I did not add to the new book...
Using the Popular Electronics Circuit as your guide...
replace the spark-gaps with a glow regulator or star-mode
electrodes... substitute an A.M. radio coil for the secondary
shown... you can wind #28 enameled magnet wire onto a roll
of empty toilet paper roll to achieve this. I prefer to use
pvc but I am saving this set-up for the July Conference. Now you have
a high-voltage output that can be tuned to 500Khz! Add the iron/lead
detector tube and you have your Moray conversion circuit. I believe
this is what Don Smith was trying to achieve. He may very well have
and kept it to himself. Keep in mind that this prototype is experimental
and huge power outputs may or may not be obtained. For almost fifteen
years
I have been convinced that using a nuclear process was the only path to
take.
Prove me wrong... you have the circuits and a possible route that could
be
lead to another source of radiant energy for the circuits to draw power. 
However, I will tell you that adding Moray's fission-valve where the
detector 
goes will produce kilowatts of power! I have freely revealed the "holy
grail" 
over the past few months. It is now up to you if you act on the
information or 
not. I can lead you to the rivers of water but can not make you drink.
If this
technology does not get implimented don't put the blame on me. I have
given
you all the fine details.   


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 12:32:45 1999
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> 
> Bruce
>             I would suspect Helium-5 would be a very good
> neutron source but fairly unstable. I have read somewhere
> predictions of its exestance but no confirmation. I'll
> try to find the reference.


Ohhh yes... especially when it out of it's protective molecule.
This is why it has gone undetected until I took notice of it.
I have ore that has it trapped between microscopic pieces of
mica. This is physical proof! It could change nuclear science.
I suspect that the NSA and other agencies might want this one
hushed. Isn't it time that the world gets it's head out of the
sand? I have let the cat out of the bag! Now what???

Ron Kovac did an article in the Jan,Feb,Mar 1998 issue that
predicts it's existance. However... the article is only a
hint of the truth.


             -Bruce A. Perreault

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:42:22 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Re: Better HV.
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Ted wrote:
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> I am.  I've got my osillator circuit for the ion pump built.  I'm
> waiting for my hexfet transistors to come in from Mouser Electronics
> (as specified in the Popular Electronics article).  I'm considering
> winding my own h.v. tranformer rather than using a flyback.  My osc.
> circuit uses a CD4049 cmos inverting buffer IC.  It gives me full
> control over frequency (sub-hurtz to several megahertz) and duty
> cycle (~10% to 90%).  The ideas for this circuit came from The TTL
> Cookbook by Don Lancaster published by SAMS Publications.


Sounds like an interesting circuit.


> 
> I've got a pair of your star-mode electrodes, although I don't find
> them available on your web site anymore. What's up with that?


Just haven't had the time to put them back up since I had to
change the orderform.


>
> I bought a piece of 1-1/4" dia. lead pipe at the local salvage yard to
> try to build the glow regulator with. I also bought a 3' dia. 1/2"
> thick aluminium disk at the salvage yard. I thought I would try it
> for the antenna. I'm going to try raising it and lowering it to see
> if there is a best height or "sweet spot."


You had better move fast... don't know how long it will be before
one of the agencies makes a move on us. As it is now my phone is
monitored around the clock. There are cars watching Mr. Bahlmann's
house.


> 
> Will your electrodes be available again? Will you offer higher
> current density types?


I will sell them again at the July Conference.
Hopefully things will slide and I will be able
to post them to my site again. However... it does
not look good... there is simply not enough interest.
It seems like I am chasing my tail. Only a handful of
people are paying attention. I could get snuffed tommorow
and the truth would get burried with me even though I have
revealed 99%.


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 13:14:58 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.24b89513.256474c0@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:14:40 EST
Subject: Very interesting bifilar test results!
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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Hi all,
I used three methods of testing bifilar coils in an attempt to prove that the 
magnetic fields between the wires are canceled out, but are still present and 
extend out from the wires. These methods were, (1) a 7 inch diameter, 7 inch 
long, bifilar wound coil.
(2) Two 18 gauge wires, with opposite currents, placed side by side running 
across a white sheet of paper with iron powder covering the paper surface. 
(3) A 9 inch color television set with the screen set on "blue screen". (DO 
THIS TEST AT YOUR OWN RISK, AS YOU MY DAMAGE YOUR TELEVISION SET)
In test # 1 I placed the coil on the surface of the screen and with one wire 
of the coil connected I got yellow flux pattern at the top of the screen, and 
red pattern at the bottom. When I connected both wires to the power supply I 
got no color at all, except the blue screen. This was using a 9 volt battery. 
In test # 2 I placed one of the 18 gauge wires across the surface of the 
screen and ran pulses of 30 amps dc from a power supply. The screen showed 
red stripes around this positive current wire. When I placed the negative 
lead wire across the screen I got a yellow stripe across the screen. But when 
I placed both wires side by side I no red or blue colors, only faint but 
darker blue stripes across the already blue screen. The area between the 
wires did not change from the normal blue screen. This last observation 
between the wires is odd because of the test results from test # 3 as you 
shall see. In test # 3 I ran the two 18 gauge wires across the white paper 
with iron power on it's surface and found something very interesting. The 
wires placed one at a time on the surface with 30 amp DC pulses had normal 
magnetic patterns. But when placed side by side they had no patterns on the 
outside of the wires, BUT between the wires, the magnetic fields were very 
strong and attracted alot of iron power. What is interesting is this increase 
in field strength between the wires did not show up on the television blue 
screen? I am still thinking about this one and any help is welcome.
My conculsions at this point are: The magnetic fields around the two bifilars 
wires are canceled but do extend out from the wires but are very weak as well 
as canceled.
The magnetic energy though in a canceled state seems to me to be stored 
between the wires as the iron power indicates. Maybe I should put it this 
way, per unit area, the flux density is highest between the wires.
I plan to do more testing as these coils are VERY interesting.
Comments please.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 17:54:58 1999
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From: MATTIARO@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.e40abb8e.2564b638@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:54:00 EST
Subject: Re: Very interesting bifilar test results!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hello Butch.

  I like your attitude.  Let's experiment first and then try to explain what 
happened. :-)

  When you have two wires like that, from the distance they seem neutral.  
You probably had the wires closer to the iron filings than the TV screen.  
  But look at it from ~ 10 meters away.  There is nothing unusual as 90+% of 
flux is acting on the opposite wire.  At 5M, you may start to encounter some 
magnetic flux.  At 2.5, even more of the last 10 percent.  See how any 
distance lessens the magnetic lines.  Actually it is square of the distance 
rule that comes into play.

  Keep on experimenting.  Maybe you get the electrons do some wild thing.

  Matti

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 17 21:14:04 1999
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Subject: 100% disclosure (was Re: Better HV.)
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> It seems like I am chasing my tail. Only a handful of
> people are paying attention. I could get snuffed tommorow
> and the truth would get burried with me even though I have
> revealed 99%.

 Then perhaps it's time to quantify that last 1%, may I suggest a massive
email to those of us who signed the confidential non-disclosure agreements?

 Cheers!

         -Erik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 08:06:26 1999
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From: Keasy@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.726aa42c.25657df6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:06:14 EST
Subject: Re: Very interesting bifilar test results!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 11/17/99 1:18:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
HLafonte@aol.com writes:

> I used three methods of testing bifilar coils in an attempt to prove that 
the 
> 
>  magnetic fields between the wires are canceled out, but are still present 
> and 
>  extend out from the wires. These methods were, (1) a 7 inch diameter, 7 
inch 
> 
>  long, bifilar wound coil.
>  (2) Two 18 gauge wires, with opposite currents, placed side by side 
running 
>  across a white sheet of paper with iron powder covering the paper surface. 
>  (3) A 9 inch color television set with the screen set on "blue screen". 
(DO 
>  THIS TEST AT YOUR OWN RISK, AS YOU MY DAMAGE YOUR TELEVISION SET)

<>

> In test # 3 I ran the two 18 gauge wires across the white paper 
>  with iron power on it's surface and found something very interesting. The 
>  wires placed one at a time on the surface with 30 amp DC pulses had normal 
>  magnetic patterns. But when placed side by side they had no patterns on 
the 
>  outside of the wires, BUT between the wires, the magnetic fields were very 
>  strong and attracted alot of iron power. What is interesting is this 
> increase 
>  in field strength between the wires did not show up on the television blue 
>  screen? I am still thinking about this one and any help is welcome.

I think the reason is because the strong field is perpendicular to the plane 
of the wires, and when you place the wires next to your tv the strong field 
is parallel to the electron beam in the tv, so you don't see much deflection 
(change of color).

>  My conculsions at this point are: The magnetic fields around the two 
> bifilars 
>  wires are canceled but do extend out from the wires but are very weak as 
> well 
>  as canceled.
>  The magnetic energy though in a canceled state seems to me to be stored 
>  between the wires as the iron power indicates. Maybe I should put it this 
>  way, per unit area, the flux density is highest between the wires.
>  I plan to do more testing as these coils are VERY interesting.
>  Comments please.
Test results look reasonable to me.  You can never get exact cancellation of 
the fields, of course, as you have seen.
                                                                   Ken

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 08:16:25 1999
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From: tgrimes1@juno.com
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:03:59 -0500
Subject: Re:Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
Message-ID: <19991118.110812.-419437.0.tgrimes1@juno.com>
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Two snips from "Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!":

>But when I placed both wires side by side I no red or blue colors, only
faint but 
>darker blue stripes across the already blue screen.  

and

>What is interesting is this increase 
>in field strength between the wires did not show up on the television
blue 
>screen?

	The first snip refutes the second.  The key is that faint, darker blue
stripes appeared between the wires.  Since the brightness of a pixel is
proportional to the number of electrons bombarding it, that result
indicates that the cancelled fields did interact with the electron beam
by repelling it.  The fields may not have completely cancelled out (no
setup can be absolutely perfect) and thus you may have just seen the
effects caused by incomplete cancellation.

	-Tom
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 14:13:25 1999
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From: "Peter Nielsen" <nielsenp@lis.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:04:42 +1000
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>and thus you may have just seen the
>effects caused by incomplete cancellation.
>

If you want more complete cancellation, try twisting the two wires together
before
winding in a single layer on your form. To balance the charge, drive each
from a negative and positive PS respectively.

Peter Nielsen


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 14:30:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:32:01 -0500
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QTRMi10SEC@aol.com wrote:
> 
> << Nuclear reactors do not fission as you have been told.
>  There is an alpha fusion process involved. Neutrons are
>  a by-product to breed weapons grade material. Neutrons
>  are not what cause the chain-reaction. >>
> 
> >>>Reply:  Well, I must say that that is not what I had in mind. I will
> definitely look into this subject. This is not what I learned at the US
> Naval Nuclear Power School in Orlando Florida. Where did you get this
> information?   


Observing nature, and the old experiments before the bomb-era.


>
> Do Physicists of today know of this assertion?  


They are fixed in their ways, and lost in the math.
The math may be correct but variables not known will
give false perceptions.


>
> Are they keeping it a secret or do they no even know?


I do not think that they know... this is the sad part.
This is why my phones are monitored. They know I have
found something about the "hot rocks."


      -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 18:28:49 1999
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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:22:06 +1300
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I think your wrong, when you twist ther wires they are no longer parallel,
Twisting wires is used in computers, with mhz frequencies induction to parallel
wires is all too easy, so some cords require to be twisted.
This stops the induction as the two wires are not parallel.

Peter Nielsen wrote:

> >and thus you may have just seen the
> >effects caused by incomplete cancellation.
> >
>
> If you want more complete cancellation, try twisting the two wires together
> before
> winding in a single layer on your form. To balance the charge, drive each
> from a negative and positive PS respectively.
>
> Peter Nielsen

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 18 18:44:54 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.d666246b.2566138e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:44:30 EST
Subject: Re: Solid State Transformer Generator on site
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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In a message dated 11/18/99 8:13:08 PM Central Standard Time, 
briggs@XLNsystems.com writes:

> Butch,
>  
>  AOL says "Sorry, We Can't Find That Page"
>  
>  
>  Bill
>  webriggs@concentric.net
>  briggs@XLNsystems.com
>  
>  >See my second site for drawing and operation of SSTG.
>  >Video stills of test coil will be put on site tonight if all goes well.
>  >Thanks,
>  >Butch LaFonte
Bill,
Sorry for the problem with site, try this and if it doesn't work I'll send 
you info. direct. I am in the process of updating both sites.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte   <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html">LAFONT
E RESEARCH SITE 2</A>  or  http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 04:03:05 1999
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Message-ID: <38352D5A.34994AB1@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:59:05 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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Organization: Home Lab
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Hello,

Let's assume the M-L converter is real thing and 30KWtts design can be
reproduced. I am seriously interested to find the way to contact with
the community for their official permission to see the converter, to get
their permission  for reproduction of the machine in Russia.

Who know the way for this contact in Switzerland?

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 04:19:03 1999
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CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com
Subject: Energy Products
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To all,

OK... no more theories & games. I am weary of reading the same
old types of posts... duplicating experiments that lead to
nowhere... It is my intent to do something about this. It is
time that someone to developes practical, high effeciency products. 
That someone mise as well be me. I do not care who kicks and screams 
about me making money selling these types of products. Everyone will 
benefit in the end... I get to expand my research... you get more 
money to spend on things that you enjoy... we all win!

Cheers to our Nu Millennium!


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 13:37:59 1999
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From: "Peter Nielsen" <nielsenp@lis.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:36:17 +1000
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>> If you want more complete cancellation, try twisting the two wires
together
>> before
>> winding in a single layer on your form. To balance the charge, drive each
>> from a negative and positive PS respectively.
>>
>
>I think your wrong, when you twist ther wires they are no longer parallel,
>Twisting wires is used in computers, with mhz frequencies induction to
parallel
>wires is all too easy, so some cords require to be twisted.
>This stops the induction as the two wires are not parallel.
>

You don't seem to be familliar with the concept of bifiliar coils.

The point of twisting the wires together IS cancellation.

Peter Nielsen

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 15:54:14 1999
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From: "Timothy Flytcher" <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:53:48 PST
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Hi Peter,
Please forgive my intrusion on your conversation but I have a question about 
this...
It is my understanding: twisting the wires in essence cuts the wire into 
smaller segments (small dipole antennae) is this right or wrong???
I have never found a plausible answer anywhere...
This was a pont of research for me when I worked for a guitar manufacturer 
as an electronic technician...
Thank you,
Timothy...

>You don't seem to be familliar with the concept of bifiliar coils.
>
>The point of twisting the wires together IS cancellation.
>
>Peter Nielsen
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 17:33:16 1999
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From: John Berry <antigrav@ihug.co.nz>
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I know what the idea is, your missing the point.
the induction does not cancel if the wires are not parallel would it?
the wires must be parallel to have full effect, if you twist then they will be
non-parallel.
the reason a bifilar is non-inductive is for two slightly different reasons, one
is that the magnetic field is canceled, the other is that each wire induces the
other and it's self for nil effect, If the wires are at right angles the wires
will not induce each other (yes, induction is how we get non-inductive actually,
the two wires create opposite induction in each other canceling out, if twisted
they can't do that.

For that matter if the wires are not parallel the magnetic field will not cancel
either because two magnetic fields will be created that are not correctly
aligned creating a reduction.

Now this is all conjecture, but I believe I am right, please do think about what
you are saying and don't just assume that twisting lessens induction more that
parallel because it logically by what we know shouldn't.

Peter Nielsen wrote:

> >> If you want more complete cancellation, try twisting the two wires
> together
> >> before
> >> winding in a single layer on your form. To balance the charge, drive each
> >> from a negative and positive PS respectively.
> >>
> >
> >I think your wrong, when you twist ther wires they are no longer parallel,
> >Twisting wires is used in computers, with mhz frequencies induction to
> parallel
> >wires is all too easy, so some cords require to be twisted.
> >This stops the induction as the two wires are not parallel.
> >
>
> You don't seem to be familliar with the concept of bifiliar coils.
>
> The point of twisting the wires together IS cancellation.
>
> Peter Nielsen

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 17:57:45 1999
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From: "Nancy May" <nancy28@bellsouth.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:55:21 -0800
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 Perhaps this group would be interested in
http://www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/swiss.htm     o/u Joe


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 20:31:02 1999
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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:31:59 -0800
From: POTTED PLANT <broompilot@netzero.net>
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Hi Folks!

John----
It seems as though you are restricting your definition of
parallel to straight lines, whereas in some circles, parallel is more associated
with "all points on both surfaces are equidistant"
blah blah blah.

If I take the typical lamp cord and stretch it out on the table,
I see two parallel wires in a straight line.

When I twist the cord, I see two parallel wires not in a straight
line.....the surfaces of the wires are still the same distance from
each other....parallel.


David


John Berry wrote:

> I know what the idea is, your missing the point.
> the induction does not cancel if the wires are not parallel would it?
> the wires must be parallel to have full effect, if you twist then they will be
> non-parallel.
> the reason a bifilar is non-inductive is for two slightly different reasons, one
> is that the magnetic field is canceled, the other is that each wire induces the
> other and it's self for nil effect, If the wires are at right angles the wires
> will not induce each other (yes, induction is how we get non-inductive actually,
> the two wires create opposite induction in each other canceling out, if twisted
> they can't do that.
>
> For that matter if the wires are not parallel the magnetic field will not cancel
> either because two magnetic fields will be created that are not correctly
> aligned creating a reduction.
>
> Now this is all conjecture, but I believe I am right, please do think about what
> you are saying and don't just assume that twisting lessens induction more that
> parallel because it logically by what we know shouldn't.
> 

--
E-mail to: broompilot@juno.com (no attachments)

Otherwise: broompilot@netzero.net

Fax to: 1-253-681-1133



__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 20:42:39 1999
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--------------9E3EEC5B2E707EAB9490188C
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Hi,
I want to build a  Leyden jars  for about 25k Volt.  could some one tell me how to
build it.
Help me please.
Best regards

David R Gomez

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi,
<br>I want to build a&nbsp; <font size=+1>Leyden jars</font>&nbsp; for
about 25k Volt.&nbsp; could some one tell me how to build it.
<br>Help me please.
<br>Best regards
<p>David R Gomez</html>

--------------9E3EEC5B2E707EAB9490188C--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 21:43:26 1999
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From: MATTIARO@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:43:17 EST
Subject: Re: Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Hello all !!!
  Apperently this twisting is getting out of hand.  So I thought to resolve 
the problem for you.  Mighty nice of me.  Isn't it?  LOL   (j/k)

  I want to take first a twin line lead in of the TV.  This lead has an 300 
ohm reactance.  But as you all know, the reactance is frequency dependent 
charactericity.  So the line has different reactance to channel 2 or channel 
13.
  But in this example I will simplyfy the world, and concider it being 300 
ohms all throughout the electromagnetic spectrum.   Wheeww ...  ( Aren't you 
glad??)

  Now, let us look at untwisted lead in.  The signal from the TV station is a 
magnetic oscillation.  Now when the magnetic field crosses the antenna, it 
makes electrons move.  This movement of electrons is then transfered from the 
antenna to the lead in.  This lead in then conducts the electrical pulse to 
your TV set.  This siognal is then amplified and split to give you the sound 
and picture.  (Tadaa .... just what you wanted to know.)
  But when the electrons flow, they set up a magnetic field.  This is set 
between the two wires in the twin lead.  Why just there???  Well lets take a 
single point and see what happens.  There are a bunch of electrons on the 
left wire going towards the TV set.  And of course, on the right side the 
electrons are in a hurry towards the antenna.  They have opposite travel 
directions.  Soforth they have opposite magnetic fields.  And remembering 
that opposites attract and likes repel, we have discovered why the magnetic 
fields want to stay in the lead in and not radiate.

   Now, if there is an interfering signal, the lead in is a perfect antenna.  
The magnetic field cutting through is added and or subtracted from the TV 
signal.  And presto.  There must be a ham transmitting.  LOL  One time my 
neighbor was having interference problems.  He knew that I was a ham.  As I 
was walking to store, he yelled for me from his open window for me to quit 
transmitting and interfering with his TV.  I just stopped and looked.  Took 
him over 5 minutes to realize that there is no way that I was transmitting.  
LOL

   But let's twist that lead in.  The signal does not care if the lead is 
twisted.  No matter how tightly you twist, there is an opposite magnetic 
field just across the insulator.  So the signal happily goes into the TV set.
   Now lets look at the interfering signal.  It comes and starts to make more 
electrons to move.  But as we have a twisted wire, the opposite wire gets 
also cut by the magnetic field.  This means that there are same polarity of 
magnetic field created in both of the wires.  This means that the interfering 
signal is repelled from the lead in and only the station signal comes through.

   I hoe that this has taken some myth about the twisted wires in the coil.

   And if I have not, then:  Hokkus Pokkus  <spark>  <flash>  <Boom>  Hehehee

   Matti

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 22:12:49 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.4b2a763b.256794e0@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 01:08:32 EST
Subject: Re: Swiss M-L converter
To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, bgoeksel@physik.tu-berlin.de, freenrg-L@eskimo.com
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<< Hi Alexander,
I see your interest and the quest for free energy, here I have the WWW address
of that community in Switzerland where they have that M-L Converter.
You'll also see the picture of the of the community build in beautiful Swiss 
Mountains, looks like really nice place. Further more you'll be able to read 
about their way of living, which I found very respected and loving people to 
one another.
Once I wrote to them, but no one answered me, I hope you'll be able to get in 
touch with them. 
And if you do, please make sure you keep me updated with your progress on 
Swiss M-L Converter.
Here is the link: http://members.aol.com/methernita/methernitha.html#engl
or  this blue line will take you there also: <A 
HREF="http://members.aol.com/methernita/methernitha.html#engl">Methernitha</A>
 
Good fortune...

Mehmet.>>


> Subj:  Swiss M-L converter
>  Date:    11/19/99 5:04:20 AM Mountain Standard Time
>  From:    frolov@mail.admiral.ru (Alexander V. Frolov)
>  Reply-to:    <A HREF="mailto:frolov@mail.admiral.ru">frolov@mail.admiral.ru
</A>
>  To:  bgoeksel@physik.TU-Berlin.DE (Berkant Goeksel)
>  
>  Hello,
>  
>  Let's assume the M-L converter is real thing and 30KWtts design can be
>  reproduced. I am seriously interested to find the way to contact with
>  the community for their official permission to see the converter, to get
>  their permission  for reproduction of the machine in Russia.
>  
>  Who know the way for this contact in Switzerland?
>  
>  Best regards,
>  
>  Alexander V. Frolov
>  --
>  http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
>  POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
>  7-812-2747877
>  

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Nancy May wrote:

>  Perhaps this group would be interested in
> http://www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/swiss.htm     o/u Joe


Thank you! It is just the info I need for experiments. Soem known old
physical effects in Russian textbooks are named by other name, but it is
not important. The machines are working and it is important.

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 19 22:29:54 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 01:25:51 EST
Subject: More links about= Swiss M-L converter
To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, bgoeksel@physik.tu-berlin.de, freenrg-L@eskimo.com
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 <A HREF="http://utenti.tripod.it/~testatikmachine/docs.htm">Testatik Machine 
ML converter Paul Baumann Methernitha Group Stefan Marinov Free Energy Don 
Kelly Zero Point Energy ZPE Orgo</A> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 00:34:47 1999
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Hi All

If we imagine one of a pair wires is a radio antenna, a good reception
antenna would be an identical wire, aligned along the same axis, and as
close as possible to the transmitter.  This is your straight, two core
cable.

To avoid this effect, it is best to place the wires at right angles to each
other.  Since this is impractical in a cable, the best solution is to twist
the wires together.

When the cables are twisted together, the axial alignment of the two wires
is never the same, greatly reducing the efficiency of the other wire as a
reception antenna.  Not as good as having the wires perpendicular, but the
best available solution.

Twisted pair cables are usually driven with a balanced circuit.  This means
that when one wire is driven to say 5V, the other cable of the pair is
driven with -5V.  The reception circuit uses the difference in voltage
between the two wires as the signal.  If an external voltage (interference)
is induced onto both wires of say 10V, the first wire would become 5V + 10V
= 15V.  The second wire would become -5V+10V = 5V.  The difference between
the two wires is still the same 5V- -5V = 10V,  15V - 5V = 10V, thus
effectively cancelling out the externally induced voltage.

Best regards

David Callaghan






-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Flytcher <flytch@hotmail.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Saturday 20 November 1999 12:26
Subject: Re: Very Interesting Bifilar Test Results!


>Hi Peter,
>Please forgive my intrusion on your conversation but I have a question
about
>this...
>It is my understanding: twisting the wires in essence cuts the wire into
>smaller segments (small dipole antennae) is this right or wrong???
>I have never found a plausible answer anywhere...
>This was a pont of research for me when I worked for a guitar manufacturer
>as an electronic technician...
>Thank you,
>Timothy...
>
>>You don't seem to be familliar with the concept of bifiliar coils.
>>
>>The point of twisting the wires together IS cancellation.
>>
>>Peter Nielsen
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 05:00:10 1999
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Nancy May wrote:

>  Perhaps this group would be interested in
> http://www.starwon.com.au/~rayd/swiss.htm     o/u Joe

 I think this website contains some disinformation..it states:

"Developed and sold by "Methernita "CH 3517, Linden, Switzerland."

Nope, don't think so!  To my knowledge, Methernitha has NEVER SOLD
a single unit! They are most vocal about the world not being ready for
such
unlimited power.

   Cheers!

         -Erik


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 06:02:06 1999
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Dr. Paul Brown uses silicon and tritium in his "beta voltaic cells."
My radiant energy cells are differ in many aspects. Dr. Brown utilizes a 
fairly complex process to create these cells. I point this out to show 
that we have developed atomic cells independently from each other, and 
that in my opinion my process is a more practical approach. Dr. Brown is 
a fine researcher and I think highly of him.
  
It is in my experience that you do not have to use SiT in a radiant
energy type cell. Alpha fusion may also be applied to the formulas to 
achieve higher output wattage.


           -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 12:36:27 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:36:14 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <bilb@eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <bilb@eskimo.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Selling is "taboo"?
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On Sat, 13 Nov 1999, techlab wrote:

> This is not the total experimental results or only circuit configuration.
> Because it appears that selling CD's, Books, Video Tapes or anything
> else is taboo in the so called alternate energy domain, we are closing
> our site (ATGroup) on Dec.1, 1999 and password protecting it.

I'm interested in people's opinions about FE sales being taboo.

There's one website which sells expensive plans purported to let us run
our cars on free energy.  This same site sells a CD of Jerry Decker's
keelynet archives without permission and without supporting keelynet or
giving a cut to all those who contributed to the contents of the archives. 

On the other hand, there are several FE journals which require payment for
subscription, and which sell videotapes of inventor interviews, etc.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with making a living from
alternative science.  The "Taboo" is on behaving with low integrity. 
Proper businessmen do not make false claims in order to rip people off,
nor do they make money by grabbing somebody's work and selling it as a CD. 
There is a vast difference between making a living, versus being a scam
artist, although in both cases money is changing hands.

Do others here see FE sales as being "taboo?"

> As a side benefit it will keep our traffic off the lists so we do not
> disturb anyone. 

Who is disturbed?  I haven't been following threads.


................................freenrg-L....................................
William Beaty   bilb@eskimo.com   EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd
Moderator: FREENRG-L   VORTEX-L   TAOSHUM-L   WEBHEAD-L
http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html
Seattle, WA 98117  billb@eskimo.com  voice:206-781-3320 



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 13:02:42 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Selling is "taboo"?
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:02:34 +1100
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On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:36:14 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Nov 1999, techlab wrote:
>
>> This is not the total experimental results or only circuit configuration.
>> Because it appears that selling CD's, Books, Video Tapes or anything
>> else is taboo in the so called alternate energy domain, we are closing
>> our site (ATGroup) on Dec.1, 1999 and password protecting it.
>
>I'm interested in people's opinions about FE sales being taboo.
[snip]
>Do others here see FE sales as being "taboo?"
>
>> As a side benefit it will keep our traffic off the lists so we do not
>> disturb anyone. 
[snip]
IMO ATGROUP do largely independent and innovative work. If they want to sell
something on the list, that's fine by me.
The difference is that they experiment themselves, and therefore make their
own contribution. Besides I think the list can be counted on to make their
own appraisal of whether or not they think something is worth spending money
on, as well as pointing out the reverse.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 13:10:55 1999
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From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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William Beaty wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999, techlab wrote:
>
> > Because it appears that selling CD's, Books, Video Tapes or anything
> > else is taboo in the so called alternate energy domain, we are closing
> > our site (ATGroup) on Dec.1, 1999 and password protecting it.
>
> I'm interested in people's opinions about FE sales being taboo.
>

Yes, sales of info on free energy is real problem. First week all was o.k. and
sales were growing but then I see no more orders from my web site. When I try to
contact for marketing with real scientist by his email address that was taken
from some sci magazine, he email me his interest but then all contacts were
stopped and I can not communicate with them.

Other problem is a lot of emails from funny people to immitate world wide network
in 100% sensored state, or from so called "sponsors". Typical sponsor is some old
man with special mind and strange idea to help me since "photos onto web site are
very nice". After my proposals to sign some standard agreement for investment in
my research work, they stop correspondence. I am understanding this offers as
some kind of black market deals.

>From other side, I see growing interest to free energy from serious business
world and from government. When they will start to pay for information on our web
sites? Perhaps it is useful to transform the web sites like Bill's or Jerry's
into virtual office of consulting company. Really, all you know a lot of
inventors and technology area data on new energy and gravity research to start
serious consulting business to help for inventors and investors.

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 13:20:52 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.81da754b.25686aad@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:20:45 EST
Subject:  IMPORTANT! question about bifilar coils
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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I'll try to make this as simple as possible.
1. You have a simple bifilar coil, two wires wound side by side with the wire 
ends for each circuit connected to a seperate DC power supply. 
2. Now you close the circuits and at the same time and the self induction for 
the coil is very low due to the nature of the bifilar coil. 
3. The current flow rate stabalizes due to the resistance in the wires.
4. Now you open one of the circuits and the magnetic field of the other wire 
is no longer cancelled.
5. QUESTION: Does the magnetic field from this wire in the still closed 
circuit, experience an inductive time constant as the other circuit was 
opened? 
6. If so, how does this inductive time constant compare to the inductive time 
constant of this same coil operated in this fashion as follows?
7. Both circuits are OPEN on the coil. You close only ONE circuit. This 
circuit will have an inductive time constant. How does this inductive time 
constant compare to the inductive time constant of the circuit in # 5 ?, IF # 
5 has an inductive time constant.

Please read this carefully, as this is a very important question, and if 
possible let me know if your response is text book theory, your own opinion, 
and/or personal test experience. I do not have the equipment at this time to 
do this test. Please send responses directly to one of the lists. This answer 
could help us all!
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 14:10:46 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 17:12:11 -0500
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GEETofPA@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dear Bruce,
> 
> Thank you for your sharing your opinion of our cell.
> 
> I have no idea what you invented and thus demonstrated in 1998, but I wish
> you well with whatever you are up to. I'm pretty excited to see that perhaps
> we were able to actually unintentionally repeat a similar version of the work
> of a master such as yourself. We feel most pleased about this, and are
> encouraged that we will go far beyond the master now. Perhaps we already
> have though, if you could only run a small solar motor on it, and not a
> pickup truck.


Hydrogen gas to run a pick-up truck is one aspect. I was referring
to the fuel-cell effect. I am honored by being called "master."
Really though... I am not impressed by these types titles. A simple
appreciation is all that is necessary.


> 
> I'm sorry that you have, as you said, gotten "kicked in the nuts" in the
> past. But, from your recent responses to me, it appears that you do a lot of
> "nut kicking" yourself, and probably just had it coming back to you. I see
> that you have simply brought that on all by yourself to learn from.


I used to curl-up into a whimpy ball a few years back... Now I kick back
and then some. The world is not fair... I have come to terms with this.


> 
> Just to be clear, you are not the next Tesla, as you seem to think so highly
> of yourself. You have totally lost the heart to do this work. You're in it
> from the head up, for your own self-aggrandizement, with all your ego holding
> on for dear life. Such frustration is clearly coming out in your various
> posts to both myself and to the lists.


I am sorry that you feel this way... no... I am not sorry... I've been
where
you are now... you will have a change of heart in a few years.


> 
> There is considerably more to the cell that we have developed, which we have
> deliberately chosen not to share, and certainly will not share now. We don't
> want to take away any of your applause.


If I had thought that there was something more to develope with this
type
of cell it would have been a product by now. This type of cell converts
electrical current into gasses effeciently. There is still a degree of
loss. 
It just was not worth any more time. You will eventually come to see
this.


> 
> You've got good people on both your lists, Bruce. Why are you treating them
> with such disrespect?  


If I have done this then It appologize for this. How am I treating
the list members with disrespect?


>
> Do you think you are the only one who has the capacity to think?  


The only thing that I have done is to point out error so that others 
would not make the same mistakes that I have. 


>
> Has your ego inflated so much that you find yourself above others,
> and thus entitled to belittle others?  


Who have I belittled? Maybe it is you that has an over inflated ego?


>
> Maybe it's time to dissolve your lists, as an ego is of no real use 
> to anyone.


I do have an ego for appreciation... if I cross the line I'm sure
list members will put me back in my place.


> 
> From your own latest emails to me, and a couple of your recent emails to the
> list, this is quite obviously the situation where a completely out of control
> ego is absolutely determined to make a name for himself, and profit, even at
> the expense of others.


Yes... the flame burns hot... it is time for the harvest... not at the
expense
of others as you would like to think... after I make a name for myself I
will
also help others to reach their potential. 


> 
> Thank you to all of the people on the nuenergy lists who have emailed us with
> your encouragement and support and with your various brilliant insights. We
> appreciate your respect for the ideas and work of others that you have
> demonstrated. You are so much appreciated, and you are the real gems on the
> path to providing "free energy" to others.


You are welcome to rejoin the lists at anytime...


         Sincere Regards, Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 20 17:39:40 1999
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From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT! question about bifilar coils
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Hi Butch and all,
At 04:20 PM 11/20/99 EST, you wrote:
>I'll try to make this as simple as possible.
>1. You have a simple bifilar coil, two wires wound side by side with the
wire 
>ends for each circuit connected to a seperate DC power supply. 
>2. Now you close the circuits and at the same time and the self induction
for 
>the coil is very low due to the nature of the bifilar coil. 
>3. The current flow rate stabalizes due to the resistance in the wires.
>4. Now you open one of the circuits and the magnetic field of the other wire 
>is no longer cancelled.
>5. QUESTION: Does the magnetic field from this wire in the still closed 
>circuit, experience an inductive time constant as the other circuit was 
>opened?
Yes, it has a "normal" time constant. When you open the switch, that coil
has a very short time constant, as the open switch has a very high
resistance. So now where does the energy in the now "uncancelled" mag.
field come from? Must be the coil with the still closed circuit, now just a
"normal" inductor.

>6. If so, how does this inductive time constant compare to the inductive
time 
>constant of this same coil operated in this fashion as follows?
>7. Both circuits are OPEN on the coil. You close only ONE circuit. This 
>circuit will have an inductive time constant. How does this inductive time 
>constant compare to the inductive time constant of the circuit in # 5 ?,
IF # 
>5 has an inductive time constant.

I measure about the same. If you have most any scope, I think you can try
it too. For example a 1mH coil and 4 Ohms resistace, the time constant is
250uS which isn't too hard to observe.
I will send you a .gif from the 1997 TEP work about this.
>
>Please read this carefully, as this is a very important question, and if 
>possible let me know if your response is text book theory, your own opinion, 
>and/or personal test experience. I do not have the equipment at this time to 
>do this test. Please send responses directly to one of the lists. This
answer 
>could help us all!
>Thanks,
>Butch LaFonte
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 00:23:38 1999
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Selling - or rather offering items related to FE research for sale from
web-sites
and promoting these (within limits) seems, to my way of thinking to not be
detrimental
to other fellow researchers.

 If  / When any one of us other researchers create a product, or an integral
part thereof,
that has the capacity to assist others, then I personally feel that provided
the list(s) are
not bombarded by multi-email, then why not permit at least pointers / URL's
to where to
find it.

  We already see a number of URL's being posted, and I tend to follow up
most of these
(if only out of idle curiousity).

 What we do NOT however need is a repeat of the "SMOT" debacle, which I know
has left
a number of FE researchers with a nasty taste in their mouths'.



  So what we need to do, is to formulate an overall plan that will allow
users to access the data
without "clogging up" the list(s).

  My suggestion is that we see if one of the moderators or other interested
parties, could provide
a single page of links, these would need to be regularly updated, and we
promote this particular
page amongst existing subscribers, and can direct NEW subscribers to this
site on a regular basis.

 A "sort of" -  " Whats New in F.E ", limitiations / restrictions should
apply, for example...
 BRIEF (very) description of the Category ...  "Alternative Fuels" - "Power
Generation" ..
 etc  etc, then that to be followed by a single URL - to the Company /
Organisation front-page.


 O.k that is my Australian $0.02 well and truly spent, Whaddya-think ?

   Glenville.


Glenville T. Sawyer
KAPUNDA South Australia.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 00:55:59 1999
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Message-ID: <012701bf33fe$4ae38e00$299c22c4@Martin.icon.co.za>
From: "Martin" <omikami@icon.co.za>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Leyden jars
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 10:53:26 +0200
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>I want to build a  Leyden jars  for about 25k Volt.  could some one tell me
how to
>build it.
>Help me please.


Check out R.A. Ford's book "Homemade Lightening" if you cant find it locally
let me know via private mail and I will scan you a copy of the relevant
section.

Regards
Martin
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/
_______________________________________________
We have enough gun control.
What we need is idiot and criminal control.
_______________________________________________

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 01:39:36 1999
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From: MATTIARO@aol.com
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I support anybody that would be advertising even in here.  I know that it 
produces a lot of SPAM <Shudder>, but would be worth while.  We that do any 
research will need some wierd thing that is only advertised in professional 
journals.

Let's say that I need a blue widget.  The telephone yellow pages don't list 
any widgets.  No blue, green or yellow widgets.  It would be so nice come 
here (or other page) and type in blue widget and a company or companies 
listings would come up that does carry blue widgets.

You think that it is silly, and nobody needs a blue widget.  But in 
practicality, do you know where I could get a 15V, 350 amp lead acid battery?

  Well there is my $0.02 cents worth in the subject. :-)   That makes it 4 
cents now.  Who does get all this fortune?  LOL

   Matti

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 02:00:10 1999
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O.k ... more...

 Subject to what else everybody seems to think, if we are unable to come up
with
a host page, then I will see what I can arrange, it will have to be OFF of
my ISP site, as they
are very "tight" on anything bordering on commercial advertising & etc.

 BUT ... ( isn't there always one of those )...

   Updates would NOT be on a daily basis, this would have to be "as time
permits"
and might only be possible once per week at times.

 I am going to sit back and see who else contributes to this "Sub-net" and
see what develops,
but rest assured if I do this, it will be accessible to some of the "other"
Free-Energy related lists
that I am subscribed to, that way everybody gains, without massive
"cross-postings", YOU -
the subscribers to THIS list may find things that appear from similar
sources.


 In fact the more I think about this, the more it is starting to appeal to
me, I'm not too bad
at Web-page coding / Java etc, so I reckon I could do it, if no one else
steps in.


  Glenville.


P.S - how about an admission fee to the page !!!  -  JUST JOKING - HONESTLY
!!!  :-)
Well I might have to have those annoying "pop-ups" to help offset access
charges, which
will not be a major problem, not the horrible multi-cascading "Vote for this
site" kind either !

 Glenville.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 04:57:12 1999
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http://www.antivirus.com/vinfo/security/sa110999.htm 

See this for info
Vicente.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 05:20:20 1999
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Glenville T. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> O.k ... more...
> 
>  Subject to what else everybody seems to think, if we are unable to come up
> with> a host page,

Hi Glenn,

I'm willing to host the page.

>    Updates would NOT be on a daily basis,

You and others would have to email me the content
in the form  http:// ...

Jack Smith

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 05:24:12 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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Hi all, the gout has me on crutches and I thought I'd spend some time at the
ibm patent server. Special thanks to Fred Epps who got me started on this
from his previous post on the low core loss rotating flux transformer, quite
remarkable I thought. I began to wonder what a patent costs. At
http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ the fees for the
bare minimum seem to be $760.00 for basic filing fee, $310.00 for design
filing fee to name a few of their fees. Now it appears that after 1980 the
patent office began charging what they call maintenance fees. I dont know if
they did not do this in this past, but from the looks of the fees demanded
it would seem that if Tesla had to pay these fees for his many patents, it
could have bankrupted him, although he already did a pretty good job in that
category.The maintenance fee after 3 1/2 years is $940, 7 1/2 is $1900.00
and 11 1/2 is $2910.00.  I dont know how long a patent lasts, I've heard it
was 20 years. So my question became, is this legitimate, after all havent we
all heard the old saying about a patent being nothing more than a liscense
to steal?

So I selected a recently issued patent on Oct 19,1999 that was filed a
little over 2 years previous to this. It may interest the group that the
term bifilar-wound secondary is used to describe a center tapped secondary,
I didnt know if those terms were exactly synonomous, but thats what the
patent examiners accepted as a description. This patent is entitled  Three
phase to Six phase wye transformer power system contained at
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05969510__   A description
follows.

The present invention discloses a method for providing balanced power to a
single-phase ac load from a three-phase ac power source. The method includes
imposing an isolation power transformer between the ac power source and the
load wherein the isolation
transformer has a three-phase primary winding and a six-phase "wye"
connected secondary winding, at least one of the three legs of the secondary
having a center tap and being connected to the load such that the center tap
provides a reference potential for the load and the reactive load currents
are equal and inversely-phased with respect to the reference potential. 

Now it is my understanding that a patent is supposed to be something new, so
I decided to go back to Teslas time and see if any mentions were made of
this idea. In fact the source I am quoting was prefaced the month of his
death, Jan 1943.  This is the Applied Electronics in the Pricinciples of
Electrical Engineering Series of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
(MIT) This may have been my grandfathers book who coincidently was named
Harvey O. Norris, (his unusual middle name constantly escapes my memory).
Anyways in section 4  of standard rectifier circuits, pg 353 it is stated
"There are at least forty different transformer circuits for connecting
three-, six-, and twelve phase rectifiers to three phase supplies. The
advantages and disadvantages of these  circuits must be found from
individual analysis." Now previous to this page a diagram shows a wye -star
connection of a core type transformer. The secondary outputs have a
secondary neutral connected across the center taps. This arrangement is
exactly the same as that in the patent schematic at
http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ The only
difference I can see is that only one center tap is shown connected. The
inventor again refers to these outputs as three bifilar wound single phase
secondaries. Does this mean I can open an old book and take the schematic
and idea to the patent office, and patent it? Maybe they just want the
filing fees. Something to think about. HDN







________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 05:46:39 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:48:00 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Rymel wrote:
> 
> wow, how cynical....you sound like an older version of me :]


Yes... it comes with age. :( I used to be super mellow, very shy.
People took advantage of this and walked all over me. Developing 
a shell was not my idea. "The hard nocks of life" dictate that
you become "hard as nails" or you don't survive. Don't get me wrong,
I will go out of my way for anyone who is in need.


> 
> i just wish i knew what cell you're both talking about...is this the cell
> described in your book? i've only heard of your book, so i'm not entirely
> sure what it is. i believe there's something about building an alpha
> radiation cell block in your backyard?


The basic capture capacitor... it consists of two thermoelectrically
differing metal plates. An electrolyte is added that does not react
chemically with either plate. If you add an electrolyte that reacts
with one of the plates then you will get a huge release of hydrogen
and oxygen gasses.

Add radioactive material to the non-reacting version and you have a
crude "radiant energy" cell.


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 06:14:23 1999
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Hello All,

What I am about to give away here was to become
a product to bring in funds to continue my research.
However, it is realized by me that this concept will
not be allowed to be sold. This will become obvious
from the description to follow...

The concept can to me a few years after reading the Papp
patents. No one has figured out how these patents work to
my knowledge. It is really quite simple. Radiolysis generates
hydrogen and oxygen by reacting with moisture in his sealed 
chamber. A spark ignites this highly explosive gas. The inert
gasses serve as a fast conduit to the gasses, along with absorbing
the heat to effect an efficient expansion. This results in useful
mechanical work. Energy from this work can run an alternator that
changes a bank of batteries. The next spark can get its energy from
this reserve. This invention was never implimented because Mr. Papp
did not identify his source of energy. What a waste!


Any how... it hit me that there is another way to impliment this
invention without needing to build a special Papp chamber or mixing
the exotic gas mixture.

My improvement is laughably simple. Here goes... take a radioactive
smoke detector pellet from a smoke detector and spot weld it to the
bottom lug of a spark-plug! This pellet will pre-ionize your gasoline,
air vapor in your combustion engine. It will also create explosive
hydrogen and oxygen gas from the water that is contained in your petrol
fuel that you got from the service station pump. A complete smoke 
detector costs around $5.00 from your local hardware store.

I make no claims here... try it at your own risks... report back here... 
All I ask is that when you report back with good or bad results please
mention my name.


       -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 06:16:41 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Rick Andersens Main Page
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Hey all, giving a rebel yell again. Does anyone know the URL of the above. I
bookmarked his Scalar Menu at
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/sclrmenu.htm but the links to his main
and homepage appear broken. He had some good stuff on 90 degree B fields
producing a motional induction vector, as shown in the patents Fred Epps
introduced.

Incidentally I wrote him a letter trying to clarify what I meant by fields
in electrical resonance sharing the same time and space. This was from a
correspondence over a year ago. I make an analogy to his lorentz force
diagram at lfg.htm where AC takes the place of DC. This gives a good take on
what I consider to be a hopeful method of making overunity. I have made this
letter the latest entry at my messageboard at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 for those interested. He hasnt
replied yet, but if someone knows the address, they could post it there
too.
Thanx for any help. HDN




________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 10:29:14 1999
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 Thanks for sharing this idea with us all Bruce. I am alittle puzzled about
how w are supposed to know if this will improve the efficiency of gasoline??
I have a pellet and a sprkplug ready to go, I just dont know what to do with
it to see if it makes a difference. What experiments have yopu conducted to
conclud that this really works??

Brian


"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> My improvement is laughably simple. Here goes... take a radioactive
> smoke detector pellet from a smoke detector and spot weld it to the
> bottom lug of a spark-plug! This pellet will pre-ionize your gasoline,
> air vapor in your combustion engine. It will also create explosive
> hydrogen and oxygen gas from the water that is contained in your petrol
> fuel that you got from the service station pump. A complete smoke
> detector costs around $5.00 from your local hardware store.
>
> I make no claims here... try it at your own risks... report back here...
> All I ask is that when you report back with good or bad results please
> mention my name.
>
>        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 11:24:09 1999
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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Brian Snyder wrote:
> 
> Thanks for sharing this idea with us all Bruce. I am a little puzzled about
> how we are supposed to know if this will improve the efficiency of gasoline??


Calculate the before mpg, and then the mpg after you have made the
modification.


>
> I have a pellet and a spark plug ready to go, I just dont know what to do with
> it to see if it makes a difference. What experiments have you conducted to
> conclude that this really works?

I have not put the plug into a car engine... don't even know if it will
clear
the head or not... it should... but take caution.

The pellet will ionize the gas... this I do know... 
I do not know if the pellet has enough power to
dislodge hydrogen and oxygen from the water molecule.
However... with enough radiation it will.

I have not persued this because I had quickly realized that
an end product would not be allowed by our government. I have
offered the concept as is... what you do with it is up to you.

It is my educated guess that with an intense enough source that
the combustion engine would require very little if any petrol fuel.
Then again... maybe not... I make no claims.


        -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 11:34:42 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:37:17 -0600
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And I thought some of us were paranoid :-)

Really Bruce, if you have not seen it work, don't put it out, PLEASE.

If you have seen something work, GREAT!, we will try it even if no one else
will. But, man you cause us all problems with these brain drains.

Rex A.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: <nuenergy@listbot.com>; <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...


> Brian Snyder wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for sharing this idea with us all Bruce. I am a little puzzled
about
> > how we are supposed to know if this will improve the efficiency of
gasoline??
>
>
> Calculate the before mpg, and then the mpg after you have made the
> modification.
>
>
> >
> > I have a pellet and a spark plug ready to go, I just dont know what to
do with
> > it to see if it makes a difference. What experiments have you conducted
to
> > conclude that this really works?
>
> I have not put the plug into a car engine... don't even know if it will
> clear
> the head or not... it should... but take caution.
>
> The pellet will ionize the gas... this I do know...
> I do not know if the pellet has enough power to
> dislodge hydrogen and oxygen from the water molecule.
> However... with enough radiation it will.
>
> I have not persued this because I had quickly realized that
> an end product would not be allowed by our government. I have
> offered the concept as is... what you do with it is up to you.
>
> It is my educated guess that with an intense enough source that
> the combustion engine would require very little if any petrol fuel.
> Then again... maybe not... I make no claims.
>
>
>         -Bruce A. Perreault
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 11:43:37 1999
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Message-ID: <38384683.98FE27F7@sinectis.com.ar>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:22:43 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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Hi Hervey,

My bookmark say:
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/default.htm
This is the main page.

Regards, Juan.

Harvey Norris escribi:

> Hey all, giving a rebel yell again. Does anyone know the URL of the above. I
> bookmarked his Scalar Menu at
> http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/sclrmenu.htm but the links to his main
> and homepage appear broken. He had some good stuff on 90 degree B fields
> producing a motional induction vector, as shown in the patents Fred Epps
> introduced.
>
> Incidentally I wrote him a letter trying to clarify what I meant by fields
> in electrical resonance sharing the same time and space. This was from a
> correspondence over a year ago. I make an analogy to his lorentz force
> diagram at lfg.htm where AC takes the place of DC. This gives a good take on
> what I consider to be a hopeful method of making overunity. I have made this
> letter the latest entry at my messageboard at
> http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 for those interested. He hasnt
> replied yet, but if someone knows the address, they could post it there
> too.
> Thanx for any help. HDN
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
> Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 11:51:48 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:51:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, techlab wrote:

> And I thought some of us were paranoid :-)
> 
> Really Bruce, if you have not seen it work, don't put it out, PLEASE.
> 
> If you have seen something work, GREAT!, we will try it even if no one else
> will. But, man you cause us all problems with these brain drains.
> 
> Rex A.
> 

If the only things that were posted here were things that worked, this 
discussion group would be virtually empty.

I appreciate the tip - my 4-cylinder would need 4 pellets so I have to go 
digging for smoke detectors!

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 13:07:50 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:09:57 -0500
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Subject: NASA contracts
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Here is URL to advanced propulsion studies funded by NASA
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/pressrel/99_66addm.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 14:35:11 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:35:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Brett Nichols <brettnichols@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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I totally agree. Thanks for some sense, Zack.

> If the only things that were posted here were things
> that worked, this 
> discussion group would be virtually empty.
> 
> I appreciate the tip - my 4-cylinder would need 4
> pellets so I have to go 
> digging for smoke detectors!
> 
> Zack
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 15:13:05 1999
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> What I am about to give away here was to become
> a product to bring in funds to continue my research.
> However, it is realized by me that this concept will
> not be allowed to be sold. This will become obvious
> from the description to follow...
>

snip! <speculative description of the Papp Engine>

> My improvement is laughably simple. Here goes... take a radioactive
> smoke detector pellet from a smoke detector and spot weld it to the
> bottom lug of a spark-plug! This pellet will pre-ionize your gasoline,
> air vapor in your combustion engine. It will also create explosive
> hydrogen and oxygen gas from the water that is contained in your petrol
> fuel that you got from the service station pump. A complete smoke
> detector costs around $5.00 from your local hardware store.
>
> I make no claims here... try it at your own risks... report back here...
> All I ask is that when you report back with good or bad results please
> mention my name.

Ahh..Bruce..look, I hate to be the one to bring this up but there *WERE*
versions
of this already built back as far as the 1930's!  In fact, I recall you
having some sort
of mention about the "Radiolytic Sparkplug" on your website, or perhaps it
was an
offer of such as a prize? To be awarded at one of the Alternate Energy
Conferences
..? REMEMBER?

<the curse of having a semi-photographic memory, abet with a camera that has

a very slight light-leak! ;) >

 Point being, Champion as well as Allis-Chambers and several other
commercial
concerns have already tried this..it works. But there is a very slight trace
of above
background radiation from the sparkplugs, the government decided that such a

product is not a good thing to have on the market.  Right or wrong, that was
the
determination. Personally I would not even bother with this, since the
cheap-assed
metal canister they put the smoke-detector Americum sources into probably
would
not withstand the temperature and gas velocity forces involved in an auto
ICE.

 Just my two cents worth..no disrespect intended.

  -Erik aka KB6LUY

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 16:18:02 1999
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Message-ID: <000801bf347f$036c8dc0$2f1a0fcb@default>
From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Selling is "taboo"?
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O.K well I have (since my last posting) set up a small site, I have NOT yet
written the coding
or etc to allow me to rapidly upload the data, nor have I set up any of the
"categories" or etc.

 This will happen over the next 2-3 days,   WHEN it is all ready to accept
entries, I will
post to the list and let you all know the URL.

  Some restrictions....

     I will NOT permit links to sites that contain any "illegal" type
content ( i.e pornography),
 or sites that include banner links to such sites, and will not be
responsible for the content on
ANY of the linked pages, Caveat Emptor - strictly up to you, if you get
ripped off by a vendor
mentioned on the site, then it is up to you to follow this through with the
relevant legal authorities
in your part of the world, there will be a full disclaimer ( Butt
protection ) available on the site.




 Now over to YOU, what categories would YOU like to see included ?

   Best to email me directly - rather than jamming up the list with a lot of
 ..." Me too " replies !   :-)


Best regards,

 Glenville.


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 16:18:41 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:20:07 -0500
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> 
> Bruce what if the pellet was put on the side of the spark plug lug? so as to
> clear the piston


There appears to be enough clearance... but if not... then
your suggestion could also work.


       -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 16:53:33 1999
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eks1 wrote:
> 
> Ahh..Bruce..look, I hate to be the one to bring this up but there 
> *WERE* versions of this already built back as far as the 1930's!  
> In fact, I recall you having some sort of mention about the 
> "Radiolytic Sparkplug" on your website, or perhaps it was an offer 
> of such as a prize? To be awarded at one of the Alternate Energy
> Conferences ..? REMEMBER?


Of course I remember... and yes... it was a Firstone Spark Plug
coated with polonium... This plug was invented by Alfred Hubbard.
The problem with this plug is that the so called polonium went
dead in a short time. I have a very hard time believing that polonium
was used because it has a very low vapor point. It vaporizes at ambiant
temperature. I would think that they used some kind of irradiation
process for these plugs. I also suspect that a smoke detector pellet
may be alot stronger than these plugs were.


> 
> <the curse of having a semi-photographic memory, abet with a camera that has
> 
> a very slight light-leak! ;) >


Did I say that this was my original concept? Why must everything
that I contribute be ripped into tiny pieces? Why must I explain
every dot and dash? This is the very reason why there are good 
inventions that some list lurkers have in their attics, basements, 
or garages that are not shared with the rest of us.


> 
> Point being, Champion as well as Allis-Chambers and several other
> commercial concerns have already tried this..it works. But there is 
> a very slight trace of above background radiation from the sparkplugs, 
> the government decided that such a product is not a good thing to have 
> on the market.  


Yup... that's why I can not make it into a product. However, I can tell
people how that they can make their own plugs. Not good for who or what? 
Energy stocks maybe?


>
> Right or wrong, that was the determination. Personally I would not even 
> bother with this, since the cheap-assed metal canister they put the 
> smoke-detector Americum sources into probably would not withstand the 
> temperature and gas velocity forces involved in an auto ICE.


Looks sturdy enough to me. You give up too easy. Why don't you see
what temperature the small pellet will hold up too? I will tell you
that a propane torch won't effect it. How hot does it get in a
combustion
chamber?


> 
>  Just my two cents worth..no disrespect intended.


No problem... no offense taken.



          -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 17:20:13 1999
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amature@gtemail.net wrote:
> 
> Say What is On your Mind!
> 
> Bruce, only a thought but would not the pellet being fastened direct to the head or > the top of the piston.    amature


If you want to really get into it you could use radioactive intake
valves. I suggested the pellets because they are what we can get
our hands on at an affordable price. Another idea is to line the
intake manifold with an array of pellets. There are several
possibilities.

Of course there is the Gunnermann method... you coat the heads and
spark-plugs
with a catalyst like platinum or nickel... use a hotter spark...
however...
these coatings are expensive... outweighing the savings. Pellets are
less than
$5.00 each...


           -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 17:59:34 1999
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Message-Id: <199911220204.AAA05545@bigbox.plug-in.com.br>
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:59:30 -0200
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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Date forwarded: 	Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:34:39 -0800
From:           	"techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
To:             	<nuenergy@cyberportal.net>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Subject:        	Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date sent:      	Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:37:17 -0600
Forwarded by:   	freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Send reply to:  	freenrg-l@eskimo.com

> And I thought some of us were paranoid :-)
> 
> Really Bruce, if you have not seen it work, don't put it out, PLEASE.
> 
> If you have seen something work, GREAT!, we will try it even if no one else
> will. But, man you cause us all problems with these brain drains.
> 
> Rex A.
> 

And what about that old "BiPeg Device" ?



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 21:14:58 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:21:51
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Patent Office Info
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Hi Harvey and all,
At 05:21 AM 11/21/99 PST, you wrote:

>So I selected a recently issued patent on Oct 19,1999 that was filed a
>little over 2 years previous to this. It may interest the group that the
>term bifilar-wound secondary is used to describe a center tapped secondary,
>I didnt know if those terms were exactly synonomous, but thats what the
>patent examiners accepted as a description. This patent is entitled  Three
>phase to Six phase wye transformer power system contained at
>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05969510__   A description
>follows.

A center tapped winding can be wound bifilar, but it doesn't have to be. It
is usually done if the 2 halves need to look as similar as possible. A
disadvantage is breakdown between turns.

>
I am also supprised that this can be patented (again). Have seen in older
books about every connection you could imagine. Since you have 3 voltage
vectors at 0, 120 and 240 degrees, you can combine then with appropriate
factors (by phasing and taps) to get any phase you wish. Rectifier circuits
had even more variations, includind those with "interphase reactors".
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 21:59:56 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:52:36 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 09:15:36 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
[snip]
>My improvement is laughably simple. Here goes... take a radioactive
>smoke detector pellet from a smoke detector and spot weld it to the
>bottom lug of a spark-plug! This pellet will pre-ionize your gasoline,
>air vapor in your combustion engine. It will also create explosive

Won't it also prematurely ignite the mixture causing the engine to ping?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 22:26:55 1999
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

> Looks sturdy enough to me. You give up too easy. Why don't you see
> what temperature the small pellet will hold up too? I will tell you
> that a propane torch won't effect it. How hot does it get in a
> combustion
> chamber?

over 500 C. in some engines - which is about where all but the best of the
aluminum alloy pistons begin to melt!

Cheers!

        -Erik


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 22:49:35 1999
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To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Common Structural Materials
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:49:18 +0700
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I was looking around the lab yesterday and I had this frustrating moment
when I could not find the shape and substance I needed for an experiment.
I needed something for high voltage (< 1 kV), hi temp (<1000 K) and pliable
or machinable.  Nothing to fit.

It occurred to me that we are woefully unprepared for the 21st century.
Or perhaps we've simply overlooked something.

Commonly, we use metals for simple frames and devices such as
bowls, plates, boxes, housings, etc.

If we wish to use a non-conductor, we are limited to either glass/ceramic
materials (high temperature but brittle) or plastics (low temperature,
weak).

(Note that I am limiting this quest to inorganic compounds)

What kinds of materials do the good folks at freenrg-L use
in a situation like this ?

cheers,
Paul



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 21 22:56:50 1999
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"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

>
> Did I say that this was my original concept?

Aww..c'mon Bruce! You offer this as a "FREE working device gift from me to you"
..think about what that sentence conveys. In actuality you should have presented
this
as being your variation of the concept.


> Why must everything
> that I contribute be ripped into tiny pieces?

I'm only interested in keeping the history of these sorts of things straight.

> Why must I explain
> every dot and dash? This is the very reason why there are good
> inventions that some list lurkers have in their attics, basements,
> or garages that are not shared with the rest of us.

Oh Jeez...I sure hope not!

> Yup... that's why I can not make it into a product. However, I can tell
> people how that they can make their own plugs. Not good for who or what?
> Energy stocks maybe?

Heh..listen, if this were to give more than a 10% improvement in mileage, I'd
be very very surprised! The reason is quite simple: Look at the ionization that
you can get with such a pellet, it's really not a lot of energy. Now if you were
to actually take and put one or two HUNDRED of these things inside of the
intake manifold...well..maybe you'd see a tiny increase in performance. But
I sure as heck wouldn't want to breathe the exhaust! ;)

As for the use of nickel in the combustion chamber..one word: DON'T!

Unfortunately, nickel metal is quite hazardous, especially as an aerosol in
suspension in exhaust gas. This is one of the reasons why the EPA is now
quite serious about putting reactive canister type catalytic converters on the
diesel trucks. Diesel engines are LOADED with nickel-alloy components,
this along with the substantially higher temperatures that the diesel engines
operate at (Peak Specific Ignition Temperature) and their higher Brake-
Mean Effective Pressures in the cylinder, mean that they create pollution
that is also LOADED with nickel! The EPA has finally admitted that diesel
exhaust is one of the most cancer-causing things that mankind has creating.

Trust me, I was there when Dr. Kenneth Heitener, etal swore up one side
and down the other that diesel exhaust was harmless - heck I even WORKED
with the guy on the JPL car study..he's a typical example of the PhD schmuck!

(Please kids, dont put any nickel inside your combustion chamber!  Take it
from the guy who wrote the EPA's Vehicle Economy & Emissions Program,
 (VEEP)..remember the phrase "Your mileage may vary?"..that's my code!)

 If you want a combustion catalyst, use platinum..or how about putting an
air-ionizer unit with lot's of spark-gaps/UV lamps ahead of the carb or injector?

 Cheers!

       -Erik


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 03:06:40 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 06:15:28 -0500
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eks wrote:

>As for the use of nickel in the combustion chamber..one word: DON'T!
>
>Unfortunately, nickel metal is quite hazardous, especially as an aerosol in
>suspension in exhaust gas. This is one of the reasons why the EPA is now
>quite serious about putting reactive canister type catalytic converters on the
>diesel trucks. Diesel engines are LOADED with nickel-alloy components,
>this along with the substantially higher temperatures that the diesel engines
>operate at (Peak Specific Ignition Temperature) and their higher Brake-
>Mean Effective Pressures in the cylinder, mean that they create pollution
>that is also LOADED with nickel! The EPA has finally admitted that diesel
>exhaust is one of the most cancer-causing things that mankind has creating.
>
>Trust me, I was there when Dr. Kenneth Heitener, etal swore up one side
>and down the other that diesel exhaust was harmless - heck I even WORKED
>with the guy on the JPL car study..he's a typical example of the PhD schmuck!
>
>(Please kids, dont put any nickel inside your combustion chamber!  Take it
>from the guy who wrote the EPA's Vehicle Economy & Emissions Program,
> (VEEP)..remember the phrase "Your mileage may vary?"..that's my code!)
>
> If you want a combustion catalyst, use platinum..or how about putting an
>air-ionizer unit with lot's of spark-gaps/UV lamps ahead of the carb or
injector?
>
> Cheers!
>
>       -Erik

This is something new.  Thanks for passing it along.  I spent 5 years in the
engineroom of one of the foulest beasts on the AK water, the Polar Bear.  I
loved that boat, but I always knew it was a real pig of a polluter.  Nine
Jimmies total.

One more thing about the spark-plug idea, if one of those spot-welded
Americium holders happens to fall off one of  your spark-plugs while your
engine is running, you have a microsecond or so to shut it down before your
cylinder walls, head, and valves start chewing it up.  The engine will
probably win the battle, but not without getting some serious scars.

The idea is still very interesting, but we might want to discuss the
engineering of it a bit more before anybody toasts their family car's
engine.  Not the ideal cost/benefit ratio there, folks.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 05:04:15 1999
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From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
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My favorite for H-T and H-V applications..

               Beryllium Oxide 

Nice High Temperature characteristics,
Exceptionally good insulating properties.

Basically a ceramic-like substance

 Downside,  "mildly carcinogenic" - now is that an Oxy-moron or not !

                       Cost factor.

                       General availability, not available at Wal-Mart!


Again just my 0.02 !

       Glenville.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 05:28:49 1999
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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O.k while we are on Auto engines etc...

 One of my planned experiments goes something like this...

 We take a spark plug, and turn it into an injector, water (vapour) injected
through
the Spark-Plug, there is a small venturi, that has integrated into it a pair
of electrodes
these have a low voltage (potential) applied across them, the H2O vapour
passes
between the electrodes, and as a result of Electrolysis is separated in to
its' component
parts - H and O, the "plug" / "injector" also has a "normal" High Voltage
Gap for
ignition purposes.

 So what the trick is - try to create an "on the fly" Hydrogen source, right
at the
point of requirement, NO I have not even "benched" it yet, some of the
problems
I can foresee are related mainly to the volume of gas separated per
cylinder, is this
likely to be anywhere near sufficient for ignition and power ?, the
synchronization
of the system could be handled with a RISC processor to take care of
monitoring
the induction and compression cycles - at which time the gas is being split,
the
induction cycle becomes a redundant function in this method - just like in
any
other Fuel Injected system - when I say redundant I mean it is still needed
but is
not used to "suck" fuel vapour through the inlet valves, these are what
really
become redundant in this type of system.

 O.k before the onset of flames.....  (no pun)

 As  I have already stated, I have not tried  any experiments to determine
volume flow
or other parameters, I am throwing this one in as a result of some of my
thoughts
following on from the "Joe Cell" and the "Garrett" Carburetor, we did get a
small
B&S motor running for a while on Hydrogen, timing not easy to adjust when
you have
a fixed magnet on the Flywheel, and very limited capacity to move the coil
around
from the "factory" position.


 .02 cents fully used up - insert more to continue  :-)

 Glenville.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 05:33:59 1999
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:36:28 -0600
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So what about it? It works and well, in fact it is the primary power source
for Eternal Light, which in fact no one wants or thinks exists.

Be sure though I have seen both circuits and they work.

Rex A.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcelo Puhl <mark@plug-in.com.br>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: <nuenergy@listbot.com>; <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...


> Date forwarded: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:34:39 -0800
> From:           "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
> To:             <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>, <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Copies to:      <nuenergy@listbot.com>, <nuenergy2@listbot.com>
> Subject:        Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
> Date sent:      Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:37:17 -0600
> Forwarded by:   freenrg-l@eskimo.com
> Send reply to:  freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>
> > And I thought some of us were paranoid :-)
> >
> > Really Bruce, if you have not seen it work, don't put it out, PLEASE.
> >
> > If you have seen something work, GREAT!, we will try it even if no one
else
> > will. But, man you cause us all problems with these brain drains.
> >
> > Rex A.
> >
>
> And what about that old "BiPeg Device" ?
>
>
>
> Marcelo Puhl
> mark@plug-in.com.br
> -------------------------------------------
> Get paid to surf the WEB !
> Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
> http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
> -------------------------------------------
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 05:48:41 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:50:01 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
References: <3837FE88.5164@cyberportal.net> <38387C67.12DA430B@earthlink.net> <38389233.7BDE@cyberportal.net> <3838E91A.9402EFE3@earthlink.net>
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eks1 wrote:
> 
> >
> > Did I say that this was my original concept?
> 
> Aww..c'mon Bruce! You offer this as a "FREE working device gift from me to you"
> ..think about what that sentence conveys. In actuality you should have presented
> this as being your variation of the concept.


Now you are telling me how I should have wrapped my gift.
If you don't like the gift then return it... no need to
complain about it. Many gifts turn out to be something
that you will never use... "it is the thought that counts."


> 
> > Why must everything
> > that I contribute be ripped into tiny pieces?
> 
> I'm only interested in keeping the history of these sorts of things straight.


Then join a history newslist.


> 
> > Why must I explain
> > every dot and dash? This is the very reason why there are good
> > inventions that some list lurkers have in their attics, basements,
> > or garages that are not shared with the rest of us.
> 
> Oh Jeez...I sure hope not!


Well... I for one am holding back... some other folks have headed
for the hills. 


> 
> Heh..listen, if this were to give more than a 10% improvement in mileage, I'd
> be very very surprised! The reason is quite simple: Look at the ionization that
> you can get with such a pellet, it's really not a lot of energy. Now if you were
> to actually take and put one or two HUNDRED of these things inside of the
> intake manifold...well..maybe you'd see a tiny increase in performance. But
> I sure as heck wouldn't want to breathe the exhaust! ;)


Have do you know one way or the other unless ytry it?
If worst this concept has opened up a new dialog here.
Some brain juices are flowing... this is a good thing
you know.


    -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 05:53:22 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:54:42 -0500
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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Michael,

It should work all the same. As for worrying about exhaust
as was mentioned in a previous post there is nothing to worry
about. The only thing that comes off from those pellets is
inert helium gas.


        -BAP



Michael T Huffman wrote:
> 
> Ahoy Bruce!
> 
> >Looks sturdy enough to me. You give up too easy. Why don't you see
> >what temperature the small pellet will hold up too? I will tell you
> >that a propane torch won't effect it. How hot does it get in a
> >combustion
> >chamber?
> 
> Diesel stack temps on a 6-71 series rarely go above 700 degrees F.  There is
> also enough room under the head to place one of these pelletes, I'm pretty
> sure.  There is however, no spark - only combustion due to compression.  Do
> you think that this idea would work under these conditions, or do you think
> the spark is necessary?  Thanks,
> 
> Knuke
> 
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 06:04:30 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:02:49 +0100
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Subject: Re: BIPEG and Eternal Light circuits....sales ?
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techlab schrieb:
> 
> So what about it? It works and well, in fact it is the primary power source
> for Eternal Light, which in fact no one wants or thinks exists.
> 
Hi Rex,

I guess, there would have been many more preorders,
if you would have just announced an "Eternal Light"
with just a lower output power, e.g. 50 MilliWatts to
1 Watt range  and for a much less expensive price !

Maybe if you would have used the 3 plate design from TMB
driving one or more LEDs and this complete unit would
sell for 50 to 99 US$, you probably would  already by now
have a few hundred perorders.

But a 3 Watts light that will cost +300 to 500 US$,
this is a bit expensive if you just think
about the "spontantaneous buying willingness factor".

300 to 500 US$ is just a physiological barrier,
nobody likes to spend just in a quick decision.

At 50 to 99 US$ there would be no long decision needed !

> Be sure though I have seen both circuits and they work.

I hope you ATGROUP guys will come up with a solution,
that permits some device to be soon manufactured and
you still can make money with it, so at least
ANY usuable free energy device will be made available for sale.

It would be too bad, if you will decide to cease all your research on
this
and your ideas and circuits would be lost.

> Rex A.
> >
> > > And I thought some of us were paranoid :-)
> > >
> > > Really Bruce, if you have not seen it work, don't put it out, PLEASE.
> > >
> > > If you have seen something work, GREAT!, we will try it even if no one
> else
> > > will. But, man you cause us all problems with these brain drains.
> > >
> > > Rex A.
> > >
> >
> > And what about that old "BiPeg Device" ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Marcelo Puhl
> > mark@plug-in.com.br
> > -------------------------------------------
> > Get paid to surf the WEB !
> > Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
> > http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
> > -------------------------------------------
> >

-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 06:12:07 1999
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> 
> Won't it also prematurely ignite the mixture causing the engine to ping?


I don't see this as a problem... adjust the timing if there is a
problem.


             -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 06:47:19 1999
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From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
To: eks1 <eks1@earthlink.net>
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On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, eks1 wrote:

> 
> > Yup... that's why I can not make it into a product. However, I can tell
> > people how that they can make their own plugs. Not good for who or what?
> > Energy stocks maybe?
> 
> Heh..listen, if this were to give more than a 10% improvement in mileage, I'd
> be very very surprised! The reason is quite simple: Look at the ionization that
> you can get with such a pellet, it's really not a lot of energy. Now if you were
> to actually take and put one or two HUNDRED of these things inside of the
> intake manifold...well..maybe you'd see a tiny increase in performance. But
> I sure as heck wouldn't want to breathe the exhaust! ;)
> 

Speaking of improving gas mileage, has anyone here actually built one of 
the Pogue or Tucker carburetor designs?  If so, did it give a large 
increase in mileage?

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 06:52:38 1999
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From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote:

> 
> One more thing about the spark-plug idea, if one of those spot-welded
> Americium holders happens to fall off one of  your spark-plugs while your
> engine is running, you have a microsecond or so to shut it down before your
> cylinder walls, head, and valves start chewing it up.  The engine will
> probably win the battle, but not without getting some serious scars.
> 
> The idea is still very interesting, but we might want to discuss the
> engineering of it a bit more before anybody toasts their family car's
> engine.  Not the ideal cost/benefit ratio there, folks.
> 
> Knuke

I liked the idea of making radioactive intake/exhaust valves.

Some of the older cars had valves with hollow stems containing pure 
sodium (which has a very low melting point) to help distribute the heat.  
Something could just as easily be made with some other material.

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 06:56:54 1999
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From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: Common Structural Materials
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Glenville T. Sawyer wrote:

> My favorite for H-T and H-V applications..
> 
>                Beryllium Oxide 
> 
> Nice High Temperature characteristics,
> Exceptionally good insulating properties.
> 
> Basically a ceramic-like substance
> 
>  Downside,  "mildly carcinogenic" - now is that an Oxy-moron or not !
> 
>                        Cost factor.
> 
>                        General availability, not available at Wal-Mart!
> 
> 
> Again just my 0.02 !
> 
>        Glenville.
> 



There was an article published in a ham radio magazine years ago warning 
against beryllia in ceramics. It is also often used in the ceramic bases 
of higher-power transmitting tubes (4CX250B, etc).  

The article claimed that the glazed ceramic is safe, but if it gets 
broken, the beryllia becomes exposed and becomes extremely poisonous.  It 
claimed one little sliver into your skin causing bleeding could kill you 
within minutes or an hour.

Has anyone else heard this?

Zack

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 07:10:10 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:09:06 +0100
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Maybe before experimenting with radioactive
material it is much more advised to build a Geet
Pantone device for trying to get higher gas mileage.
These systems are already tested and work !

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/geetdiag.htm

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm

Regards, Stefan.


Zack Widup schrieb:
> 
> On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, eks1 wrote:
> 
> >
> > > Yup... that's why I can not make it into a product. However, I can tell
> > > people how that they can make their own plugs. Not good for who or what?
> > > Energy stocks maybe?
> >
> > Heh..listen, if this were to give more than a 10% improvement in mileage, I'd
> > be very very surprised! The reason is quite simple: Look at the ionization that
> > you can get with such a pellet, it's really not a lot of energy. Now if you were
> > to actually take and put one or two HUNDRED of these things inside of the
> > intake manifold...well..maybe you'd see a tiny increase in performance. But
> > I sure as heck wouldn't want to breathe the exhaust! ;)
> >
> 
> Speaking of improving gas mileage, has anyone here actually built one of
> the Pogue or Tucker carburetor designs?  If so, did it give a large
> increase in mileage?
> 
> Zack

-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 07:25:29 1999
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Message-ID: <001a01bf34fd$cf19ad80$3f1a0fcb@default>
From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" <gsawyer@dove.net.au>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Yes Zack, that was one of the warnings with the
Heatsink ( TO-3 pack ) "upgrades" that I used to use
on Line Output stages for Color T.V, there you were looking
at fairly high flyback voltage spikes, and plenty of heat.

 An old sage once told me...

 "Unless a Silicon Power Transistor is too hot to touch - it ain't 
working properly "  !!!

 But back to the warning, it was stressed that if these critters got
broken, then DO NOT touch the surface, particularly if you had a cut
or open wound !   - sounds to me like the stuff was not very pleasant
at the best of times.

 O.k on the 4CXnnn bases too Zack.

Glenville  -  VK5ZCF (my another hat)


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 08:55:02 1999
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Sender: layo@layo.com
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:53:14 -0800
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Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you... ANOTHER GIFT.
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Hi,
Two gifts more
at :
http://layo.com
Gerard
France

"Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:

>
> >
> > Won't it also prematurely ignite the mixture causing the engine to ping?
>
> I don't see this as a problem... adjust the timing if there is a
> problem.
>
>              -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 08:58:28 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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Subject: Re: Common Structural Materials
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:56:49 -0600 (CST), Zack Widup wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Glenville T. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> > My favorite for H-T and H-V applications..
> > 
> >                Beryllium Oxide 
> > 
> > Nice High Temperature characteristics,
> > Exceptionally good insulating properties.
> > 
> > Basically a ceramic-like substance
> > 
> >  Downside,  "mildly carcinogenic" - now is that an Oxy-moron or not !
> > 
> >                        Cost factor.
> > 
> >                        General availability, not available at Wal-Mart!
> > 
> > 
> > Again just my 0.02 !
> > 
> >        Glenville.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> There was an article published in a ham radio magazine years ago warning 
> against beryllia in ceramics. It is also often used in the ceramic bases 
> of higher-power transmitting tubes (4CX250B, etc).  
> 
> The article claimed that the glazed ceramic is safe, but if it gets 
> broken, the beryllia becomes exposed and becomes extremely poisonous.  It

> claimed one little sliver into your skin causing bleeding could kill you 
> within minutes or an hour.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this?
> 
> Zack
Seen a special on US news agency,(60 minutes maybe) about beryllium being
machined as a metal for use in nuclear bombs. Factory had high cancer rates.
News agency documented that beryllium is very toxic. Could be mistaken but
beryllium as metal is very heat conductive. An old machinist told me this.
Dont know if its true. HDN





________________________________________________________________
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 09:10:18 1999
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	Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:10:12 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:07:20 -0800
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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Zack Widup wrote:

>
> I liked the idea of making radioactive intake/exhaust valves.
>
> Some of the older cars had valves with hollow stems containing pure
> sodium (which has a very low melting point) to help distribute the heat.
> Something could just as easily be made with some other material.
>
> Zack

 Solid machined-Stellite, sodium-filled valves. The most awesome valves to
ever grace an internal combustion engine. Expen$ive too! Back in 1970 I
paid a whopping $400 for a set of 16 to fit my ancient 1955 Ford Tbird's
312 cu in. Yblock V8. Catch is stellite is very brittle, and if you clip one
of these sorts with a piston, it's: Goodbye piston! Goodbye cylinder! etc.
..usually the whole engine is gonzo! I never had that problem myself.

 Nowadays we have stainless-steel alloys which perform a little better as
the main body of the valve, with stellite facing for the working surface. The
sodium-fill types are still available, but tough to find, and more expensive
than ever..I could have just about doubled my money on those 16 parts!

 Here again..a little piece of history.

 Cheers!

     -Erik aka KB6LUY

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 09:18:23 1999
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Message-ID: <38395F3A.1CB0@intergate.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:20:26 -0500
From: Alik Shereshevsky <alik@intergate.bc.ca>
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> claimed one little sliver into your skin causing bleeding could kill you
> within minutes or an hour.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this?
> 
> Zack

Re Berillium Oxide - as far as I know the stuff is really bad
news. I do not think it is 'mildly carcinogenic' but about as
bad as anything that you can get your hands on outside of Rocky Flats.
My advice - stay away from it. It is most often used
in microwave tube waveguide appertures and they always come with a bunch
of warnings about it.

Re materials - there exists a whole family of machinable ceramics. They
are easily machined, hi-temp resistant and
have excellent dielectric properties. They are also suitable
for high-vacuum system use. The only minus is they are very
expensive. They are also pretty safe health-wise.

Alik

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 10:00:00 1999
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From: "techlab" <techlab@atgroup.org>
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Subject: Re: BIPEG and Eternal Light circuits....sales ?
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:01:58 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; <techlab@atgroup.org>; atg0317 <atg0317@wt.net>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: BIPEG and Eternal Light circuits....sales ?


>
>
> techlab schrieb:
> >
> > So what about it? It works and well, in fact it is the primary power
source
> > for Eternal Light, which in fact no one wants or thinks exists.
> >
> Hi Rex,
>
> I guess, there would have been many more preorders,
> if you would have just announced an "Eternal Light"
> with just a lower output power, e.g. 50 MilliWatts to
> 1 Watt range  and for a much less expensive price !
>
The whole idea was;

1) Once we released BiPEG the underlying method was exposed. We pulled back
some time ago on applying for a patent on BiPEG, (we don't have the
resources to fight the would be thieves in court.

2) From 50mW to 3W or greater is only a matter of engineering and tooling.
We have projected (BUT DO NOT HAVE) a BiPEG of 5Kw in one cubic foot. This
was the ultimate goal.

3) Eternal Light is expensive, yes indeed. The goal was to recover the
research cost(only). Once the first one was out, reverse engineering would
be in vogue and it would be up for grabs, but we were going to be happy in
getting our cost back.

Eternal light uses two underlying circuits, BiPEG is the power source, used
with or without a battery (although must be kick started). A modified AV
Plug design is used for the lamp driver.

We are currently in negations on a technology transfer, wherein BiPEG will
be utilized in a battery charging circuit for systems such as cell phones
and portable two way radios. A BiPEG is very well suited for this type of
application.

If all continues well we will transfer the technology and get back our
research cost as well as a moderate profit.

Does that answer all of your questions?

>
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 10:36:36 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.5abe5bae.256ae6d0@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:34:56 EST
Subject: Thought experiment 186,000 mile bifilar wire
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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--part1_0.5abe5bae.256ae6d0_boundary
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Attached is a drawing of a thought experment with two illustrations, A and B. 
If you close the circuits at the same time and after one second, open one 
circuit of the bifilar wires in each illustration, you will get two very 
different results. In A you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a 2 
foot long wire. In B you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a wire 
372,000 miles long. The DC battery in each illustration used the same amount 
of energy, but B produced the large magnetic field with it's ultra high 
voltage during it's magnetic field collapse. Now if you let the two wires in 
B move apart because they are in repulsion due to having opposite currents, 
then even if they only moved 1/32 " then 3,820,291 pounds of wire would have 
been moved by a 1.5 volt DC battery!
Comments,
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

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--part1_0.5abe5bae.256ae6d0_boundary--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 11:10:49 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.44cb4c0.256aef29@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:10:33 EST
Subject: Re: Thought experiment 186,000 mile bifilar wire
To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com
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In a message dated 11/22/99 12:48:14 PM Central Standard Time, a list member 
writes:

> This is the type of experiment which Joe Newman used to conclude that
>  current is only a catalyst acting to effect changes in the conductor and
>  that the amount of energy in a magnetic field is primarily a function of 
the
>  mass and geometry of the conductor.  He emphasizes building motors and
>  generators with large amounts of conducting mass energized by very high
>  voltage and little current.
Yes, but Joe used one wire not blfilar wires, his coils had ultra high self 
induction. I think Joe was right with his theory, but the self induction of 
the single wire coils was a problem to overcome. Joe's work is what got me 
into this overunity research and without it I could never have come up with 
this though experiment.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 11:19:21 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:19:10 EST
Subject: Gauge of wire in thought experment
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A list member asked what gauge wire I based the weight on.
The wire is super-conducting for the thought experment, but I based the 
weight on 22 gauge copper wire at 1.945 pounds per thousand feet.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 12:16:41 1999
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps@fidalgo.net>
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Subject: Re: Common Structural Materials
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Hi Folks,

In researching mercury toxicity I found many references to the extreme
toxicity of Beryllium. It is the most toxic metal, more than mercury and
nickel, from what I read. And they are plenty toxic. Carcinogicity and
toxicity are two different issues and are often confused.
Sorry I can't give references, it was quite a while ago...There is a US
register of toxic materials somewhere on the net though...


Fred


>On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Glenville T. Sawyer wrote:
>
>> My favorite for H-T and H-V applications..
>>
>>                Beryllium Oxide
>>
>> Nice High Temperature characteristics,
>> Exceptionally good insulating properties.
>>
>> Basically a ceramic-like substance
>>
>>  Downside,  "mildly carcinogenic" - now is that an Oxy-moron or not !
>>
>>                        Cost factor.
>>
>>                        General availability, not available at Wal-Mart!
>>
>>
>> Again just my 0.02 !
>>
>>        Glenville.
>>
>
>
>
>There was an article published in a ham radio magazine years ago warning
>against beryllia in ceramics. It is also often used in the ceramic bases
>of higher-power transmitting tubes (4CX250B, etc).
>
>The article claimed that the glazed ceramic is safe, but if it gets
>broken, the beryllia becomes exposed and becomes extremely poisonous.  It
>claimed one little sliver into your skin causing bleeding could kill you
>within minutes or an hour.
>
>Has anyone else heard this?
>
>Zack
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 12:40:56 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:39:22 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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http://www.nuenergy.org/redmer.htm


To whom it may concern,

I attest that "Red Mercury" is a real formula. It can be
activated to produce an intense source of neutrons.

If anything happens to any of my family members or myself
this formula will be immediately without dumped onto thousands 
of servers accross the internet!

If you think that I am bluffing then I will forward a copy of 
this formula to one of your secure lab locations via standard 
high security encryption. However... you will have to provide 
the encryption equipment. 


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 13:36:10 1999
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From: "Red-Leader" <Red-Leader@dabney.com>
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Bruce wrote:

<snip>
> If anything happens to any of my family members or myself
> this formula will be immediately without dumped onto thousands 
> of servers accross the internet!
<snip>

You have mentioned in many of your posts a perceived threat by 
those in power to suppress or hinder your work and those of 
others. I certainly wouldn't doubt it and I'm not claiming you're 
wrong, but I am wondering what evidence you have of this going on. 
Is this merely a perceived threat, or do you know of instances 
where this has actually happened?

 - Emmett




    ======= >o< =========
       Emmett Hawkins
        "Red-Leader"
    Red-Leader@Dabney.com
    ========<*>==========    

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 14:45:35 1999
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From: "Cameron Maxwell" <cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com>
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Subject: Re: "RED MERCURY" formula
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:42:50 +1100
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce A. Perreault <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
To: nuenergy@listbot.com <nuenergy@listbot.com>
Cc: nuenergy2@listbot.com <nuenergy2@listbot.com>; freenrg-L@eskimo.com
<freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999 7:57
Subject: "RED MERCURY" formula


>http://www.nuenergy.org/redmer.htm
>
>
>To whom it may concern,
>
>I attest that "Red Mercury" is a real formula. It can be
>activated to produce an intense source of neutrons.
>
>If anything happens to any of my family members or myself
>this formula will be immediately without dumped onto thousands
>of servers accross the internet!
>
>If you think that I am bluffing then I will forward a copy of
>this formula to one of your secure lab locations via standard
>high security encryption. However... you will have to provide
>the encryption equipment.
>
>
>         -Bruce A. Perreault
>

How about if I snail mail you a CD with PGP on it?


Just my   $.02^3



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 16:45:06 1999
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BART2SUE@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Don't let them get you down Bruce, just pass them by. 


Like a grain of salt.


>
> I've been thinking on this and if it does'nt need to be powered 
> with the spark but can be placed in the manifold, then I was thinking 
> that puting them on a screen or a sandwitch of screens and sandwitch 
> the screens between two manifold gaskets. the screens would help break 
> up the gas and keep the buttons from entering the engine. 


There seems to be more than one way to skin this cat. :)


>
> Now what effect would nickel screens have if there were hydrogen or
> water present, I seem to remember reading some metals can ignite hydrogen.
> Does nickel do this?


Yes... if it is hot enough... I believe this is hor those catalytic
propane heaters work.


>
> Speaking of screens what about the effect of using screens in the water
> capacitor/hydrogen maker instead of aluminium sheets any ideas on what this
> would do. 


Disimilar metals work best... the is short of a thermoelectric effect.
Heat is absorbed from the ambiant and aids the dissociation process.
At least this is how I see it.


>
> Thanks again for the cookie.


Anytime...


    -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 16:56:47 1999
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Cameron Maxwell wrote:
> 
> How about if I snail mail you a CD with PGP on it?


I don't think so...


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 16:58:11 1999
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Red-Leader wrote:
> 
> 
> You have mentioned in many of your posts a perceived threat by
> those in power to suppress or hinder your work and those of
> others. I certainly wouldn't doubt it and I'm not claiming you're
> wrong, but I am wondering what evidence you have of this going on.
> Is this merely a perceived threat, or do you know of instances
> where this has actually happened?


There have been several instances... I won't go into the details...
I like to think that I am not paranoid. I will not allow the head-games
to get to me. Every now and then I have to let make it known that I
that I am not afraid of being watched... it comes with the territory.



             -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 18:20:28 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
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> Hi Folks,
> 
> In researching mercury toxicity I found many references to the extreme
> toxicity of Beryllium. It is the most toxic metal, more than mercury and
> nickel, from what I read. And they are plenty toxic. Carcinogicity and
> toxicity are two different issues and are often confused.
> Sorry I can't give references, it was quite a while ago...There is a US
> register of toxic materials somewhere on the net though...
> 
> Fred
> 

You can find the info on :

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts4.html



Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 19:58:52 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:58:42 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:13:35 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

>> 
>> Won't it also prematurely ignite the mixture causing the engine to ping?
>
>
>I don't see this as a problem... adjust the timing if there is a
>problem.
>
>
>             -BAP
The problem is that the radiation from the pellet is always present, even
before there is any voltage applied to the spark plug. This means that the
ionisation produced by the radiation will ignite the mixture before the
spark even arrives. IOW it will always detonate before the piston reaches
the top of the cylinder, causing ping, then after detonation, the spark will
belatedly arrive, now useless. Varying the timing, will only change how much
too late the spark is.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Nov 22 21:04:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:55:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Zack Widup <w9sz@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
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On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> The problem is that the radiation from the pellet is always present, even
> before there is any voltage applied to the spark plug. This means that the
> ionisation produced by the radiation will ignite the mixture before the
> spark even arrives. IOW it will always detonate before the piston reaches
> the top of the cylinder, causing ping, then after detonation, the spark will
> belatedly arrive, now useless. Varying the timing, will only change how much
> too late the spark is.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
> 

Sounds more appropriate for a Diesel engine.  Just swap out the glow plugs!

Zack

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:20:29 +1100
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On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:55:50 -0600 (CST), Zack Widup wrote:
[snip]
>Sounds more appropriate for a Diesel engine.  Just swap out the glow plugs!
>
>Zack
Yes, it might make a reasonable replacement for a glow plug, but then how
much power is normally wasted in glow plugs anyway? (IOW what are you really
saving)?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

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On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:31:13 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
I have delayed so long in replying to this post, because I was waiting for
the patent to be delivered. That has now happened, and I have read it.

[snip]
>> > Reactors can also be built in such a way that they do not output
>> > heat. Instead they can output extreme voltage that can be converted

See below.

>> > very efficiently by a glow regulator.

Could you specify the actual conversion mechanism?

>> 
>> Ok, now this is interesting technology. Could you be a little more specific?
>
>
>U.S. Pat. No. 2,728,867 details a method to obtain our objective.
[snip]
>Obviously, we do not need this much power for our homes. 
[snip]
>This is equal to a twenty
>pound bag of potatoes giving us 10 kilowatts of power.
>
>However, the remaining 90%, according to the referenced patent is in
>the form of heat. 

Above you specify this patent as an example of a means for producing power
without heat.

>Even so... this could be recovered by heating the
>water in a specially designed water heater/electric generator.

Well some of it could. Yet even so, what you have is still essentially a
nuclear fission reactor, with all the attendant problems of safety and
resultant radioisotopes.
These present enough problems when they are centralised, and monitored day
and night. The problems would be horrific if there were one in every home.
(Radioactive contamination due to lack of maintenance would be widespread).

>
>
>> 
>> >The reactor can be designed so
>> >that there is zero neutron emission.

See below.
>> 
>> Ok, but presumably you are not talking about a fission reactor here, (the
>> term "reactor" in the common vocabulary nowadays usually refers to a nuclear
>> fission reactor).
>> 
>> I take it then, that the reactor you are referring to relies upon alpha
>> decay, and as such is dependant upon a source of such material.
>> If this is to be widely used, then that source will need to be considerable,
>> and reasonably cheap. What do you have in mind?
>
>
>Yes... alpha fusion with the controlled electronic release of neutrons.

But just up above, you state "The reactor can be designed so that there is
zero neutron emission." Now the zero neutron emission has suddenly become a
controlled release of neutrons.

>The released neutrons when they bombard fully depleted uranium results
>in secondary beta particles (electricity).

Yes about 1.6 MeV betas for every 5.7 MeV neutron, but also some fission,
and also 1 Pu239 for nearly every neutron.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 04:12:03 1999
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Subject: Re: FREE working device & Orgone
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D Adams wrote:
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> just wanted to say, as per usual...am enjoying your posts and found this last one
> on your idea regarding the spark plugs of real interest. This not only seems like 
> a novel idea but also appears to be within the grasp of the common man to attempt.  > thanks for sharing!  a few questions if I may;
> 
> 1.) do you have any gut feeling as to what sort of benefits might be derived by
> such a process?


The process itself was used by Papp.
A free running engine is the ultimate
end result.


>
> i.e. a loose ball park idea as to what sort of extra mileage might be 
> seen on say an older GM 8 cylinder motor getting 14 mpg? Could one hope 
> for a 20 to 30 % increase? higher? lower?


I haven't much of a clue... I am not much of a numbers and figures guy.
This is where most of my troubles stem from. I build things... they
work,
I am happy. I suspect that the gain with the smoke detector pellet will
not be too high. Use a more intense source and you the results is a free
running engine. I mentioned the pellet because it is something that
everyone
can get their hands-on. Get their feet wet... discover that radiation is
not so bad.


> 
> 2.) also, if orogone energy were to exist, do you feel there might be any
> possible danger of DOR creation by using the radioactive chip? if so, any 
> thoughts on how dangerous it might be or what steps might be taken to 
> ameliorate this sort of scenario?


Not if the source does not react with the atmosphere.
It is true that radiation reacts with orgone to create
the "ORANUR EFFECT." However... at this extreme... you
will get deadly sick... none of Reich's people died.
After the exposure they became immune to radiation. Reich
tried to give this to the govenment free od charge. They
responded by putting him into jail. Actually, it was moving
a cloudbuster that contained radioactive ores in its base 
that landed him in jail.

I strongly suspect that orgone energy is ionized nitrogen.
This would explain the reaction of orgone to alpha particles
emitted from the radium needle that he placed in his orgone
accumulator box. Nitrogen when exposed to alpha particles
will emit neutrons.

Did you know that some cancers are treated with neutron
therapy? Is this Reich's Orgone Cancer cure?

     -BAP










> 
> again, thanks for the interesting posts!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Don

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 04:27:36 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:29:05 -0500
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> The problem is that the radiation from the pellet is always present, even
> before there is any voltage applied to the spark plug. This means that the
> ionisation produced by the radiation will ignite the mixture before the
> spark even arrives. IOW it will always detonate before the piston reaches
> the top of the cylinder, causing ping, then after detonation, the spark will
> belatedly arrive, now useless. Varying the timing, will only change how much
> too late the spark is.


In the first place the ionization will not ignite the gas.
Positive... static-free charge is imparted to the gas.
It is only when this positive gas sees a negative static
charge when it ignites. Typically alpha sources are used
to rid environments of static charge.



            -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 04:38:03 1999
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:31:13 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> I have delayed so long in replying to this post, because I was waiting for
> the patent to be delivered. That has now happened, and I have read it.
> 
> [snip]
> >> > Reactors can also be built in such a way that they do not output
> >> > heat. Instead they can output extreme voltage that can be converted
> 
> See below.
> 
> >> > very efficiently by a glow regulator.
> 
> Could you specify the actual conversion mechanism?


You'll eat this one up... it is the very heart of
the Moray device and Tesla's Early Radiant Energy
Patent. No fringe science... just an atomic cell...
a self charging capacitor if you will... one hitch
here... our cell is fusion powered for high wattage.
The patent that you have referenced is straight fission.


> 
> >>
> >> Ok, now this is interesting technology. Could you be a little more specific?
> >
> >
> >U.S. Pat. No. 2,728,867 details a method to obtain our objective.
> [snip]
> >Obviously, we do not need this much power for our homes.
> [snip]
> >This is equal to a twenty
> >pound bag of potatoes giving us 10 kilowatts of power.
> >
> >However, the remaining 90%, according to the referenced patent is in
> >the form of heat.
> 
> Above you specify this patent as an example of a means for producing power
> without heat.
> 
> >Even so... this could be recovered by heating the
> >water in a specially designed water heater/electric generator.
> 
> Well some of it could. Yet even so, what you have is still essentially a
> nuclear fission reactor, with all the attendant problems of safety and
> resultant radioisotopes.
> These present enough problems when they are centralised, and monitored day
> and night. The problems would be horrific if there were one in every home.
> (Radioactive contamination due to lack of maintenance would be widespread).


Not a problem if you have almost zero neutron emission.


> 
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >The reactor can be designed so
> >> >that there is zero neutron emission.
> 
> See below.
> >>
> >> Ok, but presumably you are not talking about a fission reactor here, (the
> >> term "reactor" in the common vocabulary nowadays usually refers to a nuclear
> >> fission reactor).
> >>
> >> I take it then, that the reactor you are referring to relies upon alpha
> >> decay, and as such is dependant upon a source of such material.
> >> If this is to be widely used, then that source will need to be considerable,
> >> and reasonably cheap. What do you have in mind?
> >
> >
> >Yes... alpha fusion with the controlled electronic release of neutrons.
> 
> But just up above, you state "The reactor can be designed so that there is
> zero neutron emission." Now the zero neutron emission has suddenly become a
> controlled release of neutrons.
> 
> >The released neutrons when they bombard fully depleted uranium results
> >in secondary beta particles (electricity).
> 
> Yes about 1.6 MeV betas for every 5.7 MeV neutron, but also some fission,
> and also 1 Pu239 for nearly every neutron.


However... if you electronically control the reaction you can
minimize stray neutrons.


        -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 06:57:53 1999
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From: dave.tingley@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:58:54 -0500
Subject: Re: A closed loop GEET FP device Picture
Message-ID: <19991123.095855.206.0.dave.tingley@juno.com>
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The question still remains on this closed loop operation, does this run
indefinitely or does the fuel mixture eventually become all water and
then it stops?

Dave

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:05:16 +0100 Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
writes:
> 
> 
> JNaudin509@aol.com schrieb:
> > 
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > I have posted in my web site the picture of the Closed Loop Geet 
> FP device
> > from Russell McCabe at :
> > 
> > http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/geet/html/clgeet.htm
> 
> Does it alse run with JUST water or how much % gasoline must be 
> present
> ?
> 
> Regards, Stefan.
> 
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Jean-Louis Naudin
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
> 

============================================
dave.tingley@juno.com
http://dave_tingley.tripod.com
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to
the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 07:17:14 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:15:42 -0500
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CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "RED MERCURY" formula SO, HERE YOU ASK US TO KILL YOUR FAMILY ?
References: <002801bf353a$e8e8a800$4c55ba88@cmaxwell.85.hed.swin.edu.au> <3839E5EB.4B64@cyberportal.net> <383B1B1D.2CC5277A@layo.com>
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Gerard,

A secure organization does not use PGP. They use phone 
encryption devices. Do you think that I will give out 
the formula without authenticity? This formula has the
pontial to do alot of harm in the wrong hands. Oh... I
forgot... killing people means nothing to you if it means
retaining control over us little guys. Send me your 
encryption hardware. If you are my contact then you know 
the procedure... we have been through this once before in 
regards to my phone being tapped by one of your agencies. 
You people are so "evil" that you can not even trust your 
own people!


          -Bruce A. Perreault



G Nefkens wrote:
> 
> Or
> You like fame more than your family?
> Gerard
> France
> 
> "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote:
> 
> >
> > Cameron Maxwell wrote:
> > >
> > > How about if I snail mail you a CD with PGP on it?
> >
> > I don't think so...
> >
> >          -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 08:23:53 1999
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Subject: Re: "RED MERCURY" formula   SO, HERE YOU ASK US ALL TO KILL YOUR FAMILY
References: <19991122153607.08c2d3d9.in@smtp.dabney.com>
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SO, HERE YOU ASK US TO KILL YOUR FAMILY TO OBTAIN THIS INFORMATION ?
'the only way to have this stuff on hundreds of websites ?
DEAL !

Or :

You like POSTMORTEM FAME (not HONOR) more than your family ?
Gerard
France

Red-Leader wrote:

> Bruce wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > If anything happens to any of my family members or myself
> > this formula will be immediately without dumped onto thousands
> > of servers accross the internet!
> <snip>
>
> You have mentioned in many of your posts a perceived threat by
> those in power to suppress or hinder your work and those of
> others. I certainly wouldn't doubt it and I'm not claiming you're
> wrong, but I am wondering what evidence you have of this going on.
> Is this merely a perceived threat, or do you know of instances
> where this has actually happened?
>
>  - Emmett
>
>     ======= >o< =========
>        Emmett Hawkins
>         "Red-Leader"
>     Red-Leader@Dabney.com
>     ========<*>==========

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 08:36:01 1999
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Gerard Nefkens wrote:

>
> SO, HERE YOU ASK US TO KILL YOUR FAMILY TO OBTAIN THIS INFORMATION ?
> 'the only way to have this stuff on hundreds of websites ?
> DEAL !


      Don't worry in Rumney, NH 03266 US

       Bruce, think before you write !
       Gerard



> Or :
>
> You like POSTMORTEM FAME (not HONOR) more than your family ?
> Gerard
> France
>
> Red-Leader wrote:
>
> > Bruce wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > If anything happens to any of my family members or myself
> > > this formula will be immediately without dumped onto thousands
> > > of servers accross the internet!
> > <snip>
> >
> > You have mentioned in many of your posts a perceived threat by
> > those in power to suppress or hinder your work and those of
> > others. I certainly wouldn't doubt it and I'm not claiming you're
> > wrong, but I am wondering what evidence you have of this going on.
> > Is this merely a perceived threat, or do you know of instances
> > where this has actually happened?
> >
> >  - Emmett
> >
> >     ======= >o< =========
> >        Emmett Hawkins
> >         "Red-Leader"
> >     Red-Leader@Dabney.com
> >     ========<*>==========

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 12:57:44 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.58f079a8.256c599b@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:56:59 EST
Subject: Site's updated (a little)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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I have updated my sites with thought experiment and picture of my first 
bifilar coil made by electric motor shop.
Butch
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LAFONTE RESEARCH SITE 1<
/A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html">
LAFONTE RESEARCH SITE 2</A> or http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 14:11:25 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:47:19 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Where is Helium-5?]
References: <01BF35BB.920DD600.kellymac@eazy.net>
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Kelly MacInnis wrote:
> 
> All the information must be available to all! the risks involved in trying
> to protect people from it is too great.


It won't be long before you guys and gals here are told everthing.
It makes me wonder though how much of it can be implimented because
of limited access and fear. Even then... will you have second
thoughts that something is still being held back?


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 16:56:13 1999
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From: "dwenbert" <dwenbert@spacey.net>
To: "Newman-L Mailing List" <newman-l@emachine.com>,
        "freenrg" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "KeelyNet Discussion List" <KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net>,
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Subject: MIT Corruption Vindicates' Pantone GEET
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ScienceDaily Magazine -- MIT's Plasmatron For Cutting Car Pollutants Is =
Significant Step Closer To Road Tests
-----Original Message-----
From: dwenbert <dwenbert@spacey.net>
To: dwenbert <dwenbert@spacey.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 4:42 PM
Subject: ScienceDaily Magazine -- MIT's Plasmatron For Cutting Car =
Pollutants Is Signifi



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            Source:   Massachusetts Institute Of Technology =
(http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/)=20
                =20
          =20
            Date:   Posted 11/17/99=20

      MIT's Plasmatron For Cutting Car Pollutants Is Significant Step =
Closer To Road Tests=20
      CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - An MIT device that could drastically cut =
smog-producing emissions from cars and other vehicles is a significant =
step closer to moving from the lab to the road. The device, known as a =
plasmatron, is expected to be inexpensive and readily compatible with =
present engine technology.=20
      Recently the plasmatron was installed in a commercial car engine =
for the first time. It operated reliably over two weeks, and met its =
inventors' expectations for reducing emissions of pollutants, =
particularly nitrogen oxides (NOx). NOx emissions were reduced by two =
orders of magnitude compared to the normal emissions of an engine =
running on gasoline.=20

      "This is a major milestone in showing the feasibility of a =
plasma-boosted fuel reformer for reducing vehicle pollution," said =
Daniel R. Cohn, head of the Plasma Technology Division at the Plasma =
Science and Fusion Center (PSFC). Dr. Cohn will be presenting the work =
November 18 at a meeting of the American Physical Society.=20

      Now that the researchers have successfully coupled the plasmatron =
to an engine, the next step is to install the device in an actual =
vehicle. "We're ready to take the show on the road," Dr. Cohn said.=20

      Dr. Cohn's colleagues on the current work are PSFC principal =
research engineer Leslie Bromberg, PSFC research engineer Alexander =
Rabinovich, PSFC visiting scientist Nikolai Alexeev, and five engineers =
from Oak Ridge National Laboratory, where the engine tests were =
conducted.=20

      HOW IT WORKS=20

      Essentially the plasmatron, which is about the size of a wine =
bottle, works as an onboard "oil refinery." It converts a variety of =
fuels into high-quality hydrogen-rich gas. Adding only a small amount of =
such gas to the fossil fuel powering a car is known to significantly =
decrease emissions of pollutants like NOx.=20

      Fuel injected into the plasmatron is exposed to an electric =
discharge that turns the fuel and surrounding air into an electrically =
charged gas, or plasma. The plasma accelerates reaction rates allowing =
the production of hydrogen-rich gas.=20

      Plasmatrons have traditionally been used to produce hydrogen-rich =
gas for industrial applications like metallurgical processing. They are =
usually quite large--about the size of a car engine--and require large =
amounts of electrical power. "To our knowledge we're the first to =
develop a plasma-boosted fuel reformer that's this small and that =
operates at low power (less than one kilowatt)," said Dr. Cohn.=20

      CURRENT RESULTS=20

      "The real achievement of the recent tests was our ability to run =
our new plasmatron connected to an engine for long periods of time," Dr. =
Rabinovich said. "We ran it reliably for four to six hours a day over =
two weeks, with no traces of deterioration."=20

      In addition, the researchers found that emissions of key =
pollutants were significantly reduced. For example, NOx was reduced from =
an average 2,700 parts per million without the plasmatron to 20 ppm with =
the device.=20

      "This is the first time anyone's been able to integrate a compact =
plasma-boosted fuel reformer with an auto engine and show a large =
reduction in pollutants," Dr. Cohn said. In an actual vehicle these =
reductions will not be as dramatic (due to help from the catalytic =
converter), but the researchers still expect to reduce NOx emissions by =
a factor of 10.=20

      The researchers believe that the plasmatron used in the current =
tests has the basic features needed for commercial attractiveness. For =
example, they estimate that the entire plasmatron system could cost no =
more than two to three hundred dollars. Moreover, the only component =
that may need to be replaced-an electrode-is very inexpensive and can be =
changed as easily as a spark plug.=20

      The next step in the work-placing the plasmatron in an actual =
vehicle-will require integrating the system to the vehicle's onboard =
computer. Dr. Rabinovich also notes that "the plasmatron will require =
some additional room, but there's no need for a major redesign of the =
vehicle." The team hopes to put the device in a bus within a year.=20

      VARIETY OF FUELS=20

      The recent engine tests were conducted using gasoline. However, =
laboratory tests with the plasmatron alone have shown that the device =
can also process diesel and biocrude fuels.=20

      Although in principle the device could process all of the fuel for =
a vehicle, the researchers say that it's most cost-effective to convert =
only a fraction of the fuel into hydrogen-rich gas. That's because even =
though such gas increases the efficiency of an engine, the plasmatron =
itself consumes energy. The best results in the recent tests were =
achieved by converting 25 percent of the gasoline into hydrogen-rich =
gas.=20

      The plasmatron grew out of work conducted over 15 years ago by Dr. =
Rabinovich, who was then an engineer in the former Soviet Union. Dr. =
Alexeev, a colleague of Dr. Rabinovich's at the time, came to MIT this =
year to join his friend on the team (he has since returned to Russia). =
The plasmatron also owes a debt to basic research at MIT on fusion =
power, which uses plasmas.=20

      The researchers have five patents related to the plasmatron. The =
work is supported by the DOE Office of Heavy Vehicle Technologies.=20


      Editor's Note: The original news release can be found at =
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/1999/plasmatron.html =20



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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may also wish to include the following link in any citation:=20

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/11/991117050758.htm
          =20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
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</B>dwenbert &lt;<A=20
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      <H2><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Helvetica">MIT's =
Plasmatron For=20
      Cutting Car Pollutants Is Significant Step Closer To Road Tests=20
      </FONT></H2>CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - An MIT device that could =
drastically cut=20
      smog-producing emissions from cars and other vehicles is a =
significant=20
      step closer to moving from the lab to the road. The device, known =
as a=20
      plasmatron, is expected to be inexpensive and readily compatible =
with=20
      present engine technology.=20
      <P>Recently the plasmatron was installed in a commercial car =
engine for=20
      the first time. It operated reliably over two weeks, and met its=20
      inventors' expectations for reducing emissions of pollutants, =
particularly=20
      nitrogen oxides (NOx). NOx emissions were reduced by two orders of =

      magnitude compared to the normal emissions of an engine running on =

      gasoline.=20
      <P>"This is a major milestone in showing the feasibility of a=20
      plasma-boosted fuel reformer for reducing vehicle pollution," said =
Daniel=20
      R. Cohn, head of the Plasma Technology Division at the Plasma =
Science and=20
      Fusion Center (PSFC). Dr. Cohn will be presenting the work =
November 18 at=20
      a meeting of the American Physical Society.=20
      <P>Now that the researchers have successfully coupled the =
plasmatron to an=20
      engine, the next step is to install the device in an actual =
vehicle.=20
      "We're ready to take the show on the road," Dr. Cohn said.=20
      <P>Dr. Cohn's colleagues on the current work are PSFC principal =
research=20
      engineer Leslie Bromberg, PSFC research engineer Alexander =
Rabinovich,=20
      PSFC visiting scientist Nikolai Alexeev, and five engineers from =
Oak Ridge=20
      National Laboratory, where the engine tests were conducted.=20
      <P>HOW IT WORKS=20
      <P>Essentially the plasmatron, which is about the size of a wine =
bottle,=20
      works as an onboard "oil refinery." It converts a variety of fuels =
into=20
      high-quality hydrogen-rich gas. Adding only a small amount of such =
gas to=20
      the fossil fuel powering a car is known to significantly decrease=20
      emissions of pollutants like NOx.=20
      <P>Fuel injected into the plasmatron is exposed to an electric =
discharge=20
      that turns the fuel and surrounding air into an electrically =
charged gas,=20
      or plasma. The plasma accelerates reaction rates allowing the =
production=20
      of hydrogen-rich gas.=20
      <P>Plasmatrons have traditionally been used to produce =
hydrogen-rich gas=20
      for industrial applications like metallurgical processing. They =
are=20
      usually quite large--about the size of a car engine--and require =
large=20
      amounts of electrical power. "To our knowledge we're the first to =
develop=20
      a plasma-boosted fuel reformer that's this small and that operates =
at low=20
      power (less than one kilowatt)," said Dr. Cohn.=20
      <P>CURRENT RESULTS=20
      <P>"The real achievement of the recent tests was our ability to =
run our=20
      new plasmatron connected to an engine for long periods of time," =
Dr.=20
      Rabinovich said. "We ran it reliably for four to six hours a day =
over two=20
      weeks, with no traces of deterioration."=20
      <P>In addition, the researchers found that emissions of key =
pollutants=20
      were significantly reduced. For example, NOx was reduced from an =
average=20
      2,700 parts per million without the plasmatron to 20 ppm with the =
device.=20
      <P>"This is the first time anyone's been able to integrate a =
compact=20
      plasma-boosted fuel reformer with an auto engine and show a large=20
      reduction in pollutants," Dr. Cohn said. In an actual vehicle =
these=20
      reductions will not be as dramatic (due to help from the catalytic =

      converter), but the researchers still expect to reduce NOx =
emissions by a=20
      factor of 10.=20
      <P>The researchers believe that the plasmatron used in the current =
tests=20
      has the basic features needed for commercial attractiveness. For =
example,=20
      they estimate that the entire plasmatron system could cost no more =
than=20
      two to three hundred dollars. Moreover, the only component that =
may need=20
      to be replaced-an electrode-is very inexpensive and can be changed =
as=20
      easily as a spark plug.=20
      <P>The next step in the work-placing the plasmatron in an actual=20
      vehicle-will require integrating the system to the vehicle's =
onboard=20
      computer. Dr. Rabinovich also notes that "the plasmatron will =
require some=20
      additional room, but there's no need for a major redesign of the =
vehicle."=20
      The team hopes to put the device in a bus within a year.=20
      <P>VARIETY OF FUELS=20
      <P>The recent engine tests were conducted using gasoline. However, =

      laboratory tests with the plasmatron alone have shown that the =
device can=20
      also process diesel and biocrude fuels.=20
      <P>Although in principle the device could process all of the fuel =
for a=20
      vehicle, the researchers say that it's most cost-effective to =
convert only=20
      a fraction of the fuel into hydrogen-rich gas. That's because even =
though=20
      such gas increases the efficiency of an engine, the plasmatron =
itself=20
      consumes energy. The best results in the recent tests were =
achieved by=20
      converting 25 percent of the gasoline into hydrogen-rich gas.=20
      <P>The plasmatron grew out of work conducted over 15 years ago by =
Dr.=20
      Rabinovich, who was then an engineer in the former Soviet Union. =
Dr.=20
      Alexeev, a colleague of Dr. Rabinovich's at the time, came to MIT =
this=20
      year to join his friend on the team (he has since returned to =
Russia). The=20
      plasmatron also owes a debt to basic research at MIT on fusion =
power,=20
      which uses plasmas.=20
      <P>The researchers have five patents related to the plasmatron. =
The work=20
      is supported by the DOE Office of Heavy Vehicle Technologies.=20
      <P>
      <P><B>Editor's Note:</B> The original news release can be found at =
<A=20
      class=3Dmain=20
      =
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/1999/plasmatron.html">http://web=
.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/1999/plasmatron.html</A>=20

      <TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D5 width=3D470>
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          <TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><I><FONT size=3D-1><B>Note:</B> =
This story has=20
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Of=20
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Institute=20
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MIT device could lead to near-term environmental improvements for cars


News Releases | Search | MIT News Office | Comments | MIT



MIT device could lead to near-term
environmental improvements for cars


      =20
     Photo caption: MIT engineer Alexander Rabinovich holds a device he =
developed with Leslie Bromberg (left), Daniel Cohn (right) and =
colleagues that could significantly reduce the amount of smog-producing =
pollutants generated by cars. (Photo by Donna Coveney)=20
    =20
      Contact for more information and copies of photograph=20
    =20


OCTOBER 23, 1997

CAMBRIDGE, Mass--A car that runs on vegetable oil?

MIT engineers and colleagues are perfecting a device that could turn =
that foodstuff and various "biocrude" oils into fuel that could reduce =
the nation's dependence on foreign oil and decrease emissions of the =
greenhouse gas carbon dioxide. The same device could also significantly =
reduce the amount of smog-producing pollutants generated by vehicles =
running on traditional fuels.

All that from a contraption the researchers believe will be relatively =
inexpensive--only a few percent of the cost of a car or truck. They also =
believe that it could be introduced into present vehicle technology with =
only minor modifications, and that it will only need to be replaced a =
few times over the lifetime of a vehicle.=20

Essentially the device, which is about the size of a large soup can, =
works as an onboard "oil refinery." It converts a wide variety of fuels =
into high-quality hydrogen-rich gas. Adding only a small amount of such =
gas to the fossil fuel powering a car is known to make possible a =
significant decrease in emissions of pollutants like nitrogen oxides.

"This device might dramatically reduce air pollution from autos and =
trucks without a major increase in costs and inconvenience," said Daniel =
R. Cohn, a senior research scientist at the MIT Plasma Science and =
Fusion Center (PSFC). "The device has near-term applications. No major =
advances are needed in internal combustion engine design to incorporate =
it."

Dr. Cohn's colleagues on the work are PSFC principal research engineer =
Leslie Bromberg, PSFC research engineer Alexander Rabinovich, and =
Jeffrey E. Surma and Jud Virden at the Battelle Pacific Northwest =
National Laboratory. The team will present a paper on the work October =
28 at the DOE Automotive Technology Development Customers' Coordination =
Meeting.

The new device is a kind of electrical gas heater known as a plasmatron. =
Fuel injected into the plasmatron is exposed to an arc of electricity =
that turns the fuel and surrounding air into an electrically charged =
gas, or plasma. The plasma accelerates reaction rates allowing the =
production of hydrogen-rich gas in a compact device--the plasmatron.

Plasmatrons have traditionally been used to produce hydrogen-rich gas =
for industrial applications like metallurgical processing. They are =
usually quite large--about the size of a car engine--and require large =
amounts of electrical power. "We're the first to develop a compact, =
low-power plasmatron," said Dr. Cohn. "To our knowledge no-one has =
created one that's this small (you can hold it in your hand) and that =
operates at low power (around one kilowatt)."

The researchers noted that conventional ways to produce hydrogen-rich =
gas involve devices that, among other limitations, are presently bulky, =
heavy, and can't effectively process biocrude oils. "They can basically =
do gasoline, methanol and, with a stretch, diesel," Dr. Bromberg said.

In contrast, the new plasmatron works well with a variety of fuels. =
"We've shown a very high degree of conversion (over 90 percent) of =
gasoline, diesel, and biocrude fuels into hydrogen-rich gas," Dr. Cohn =
said.

Although in principle the plasmatron could process all of the fuel for a =
vehicle, the researchers say that at present it's most cost-effective to =
convert only a fraction of the fuel into hydrogen-rich gas. That's =
because even though such gas increases the efficiency of an engine, the =
plasmatron itself consumes energy. "Processing a fraction of the fuel =
should prevent any decrease in net fuel consumption efficiency, and may =
in some cases improve net efficiency," Dr. Cohn said.

Pollution reduction is significant. For example, converting 25-50 =
percent of gasoline into hydrogen-rich gas "could reduce nitrogen oxide =
levels by a factor of five to ten relative to operation without =
hydrogen-rich gas," Dr. Cohn said. For natural gas, even less fuel need =
be converted for similar pollution reductions.

Biocrude oils have their own environmental benefits. "Such oils might be =
produced by fast-growing trees or other crops that absorb carbon =
dioxide, compensating for the carbon dioxide produced by combustion," =
explained Dr. Cohn.

The researchers are currently working to increase the efficiency and =
yields of the plasmatron. They are also developing designs that will =
give a longer lifetime for the electrodes.

In a parallel effort, they are conducting experiments on the effects of =
hydrogen-rich gas on internal combustion engines. The original =
experiments to this end that found significant benefits to the use of =
such gas were conducted in the 70s. "We want to reexamine engine =
performance with hydrogen using modern engines," Dr. Cohn said.

The new plasmatron grew out of work conducted over 15 years ago by Dr. =
Rabinovich, who was then an engineer in the former Soviet Union. Drs. =
Rabinovich, Cohn and Bromberg have written several papers on this topic, =
and in 1995 received a patent on using the plasmatron in internal =
combustion engines.

The work is supported by the DOE Office of Heavy Vehicle Technologies. =
Dr. Cohn noted that "we'd been considering these applications for some =
time, but it wasn't until we received this DOE funding that we could =
really move forward to try to validate our concepts for vehicular =
applications."


--END--



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
CONTACTS:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
      Elizabeth Thomson
      MIT News Office
      (617) 258-5402
      thomson@mit.edu
      (please use this address for requesting photos)=20
     Daniel Cohn
      (617) 253-5524=20
    =20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
News Releases | Search | MIT News Office | Comments | MIT


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>MIT device could lead to near-term environmental =
improvements for cars</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
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<P><A href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/"><IMG align=3Dbottom =
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href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/">News Releases</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/search.html">Search</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/">MIT News Office</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/newsoffstaff.html">Comments</A>=
 | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/">MIT</A></P>
<P align=3Dright>&nbsp;</P>
<H2>MIT device could lead to near-term<BR>environmental improvements for =

cars</H2>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>
<TABLE border=3D0 height=3D177 width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD rowSpan=3D2 width=3D301>
      <P><IMG align=3Dleft alt=3Dplasmatron border=3D1 height=3D177 =
src=3D"plasmatron.GIF"=20
      width=3D288> </P></TD>
    <TD height=3D133 vAlign=3Dtop>
      <P><B>Photo caption: </B>MIT engineer Alexander Rabinovich holds a =
device=20
      he developed with Leslie Bromberg (left), Daniel Cohn (right) and=20
      colleagues that could significantly reduce the amount of =
smog-producing=20
      pollutants generated by cars. (Photo by Donna Coveney) =
</P></TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD vAlign=3Dbottom>
      <P><A href=3D"#contact">Contact</A> for more information and =
copies of=20
      photograph </P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>
<P>OCTOBER 23, 1997</P>
<P>CAMBRIDGE, Mass--A car that runs on vegetable oil?</P>
<P>MIT engineers and colleagues are perfecting a device that could turn =
that=20
foodstuff and various "biocrude" oils into fuel that could reduce the =
nation's=20
dependence on foreign oil and decrease emissions of the greenhouse gas =
carbon=20
dioxide. The same device could also significantly reduce the amount of=20
smog-producing pollutants generated by vehicles running on traditional=20
fuels.</P>
<P>All that from a contraption the researchers believe will be =
relatively=20
inexpensive--only a few percent of the cost of a car or truck. They also =
believe=20
that it could be introduced into present vehicle technology with only =
minor=20
modifications, and that it will only need to be replaced a few times =
over the=20
lifetime of a vehicle. </P>
<P>Essentially the device, which is about the size of a large soup can, =
works as=20
an onboard "oil refinery." It converts a wide variety of fuels into =
high-quality=20
hydrogen-rich gas. Adding only a small amount of such gas to the fossil =
fuel=20
powering a car is known to make possible a significant decrease in =
emissions of=20
pollutants like nitrogen oxides.</P>
<P>"This device might dramatically reduce air pollution from autos and =
trucks=20
without a major increase in costs and inconvenience," said Daniel R. =
Cohn, a=20
senior research scientist at the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center =
(PSFC).=20
"The device has near-term applications. No major advances are needed in =
internal=20
combustion engine design to incorporate it."</P>
<P>Dr. Cohn's colleagues on the work are PSFC principal research =
engineer Leslie=20
Bromberg, PSFC research engineer Alexander Rabinovich, and Jeffrey E. =
Surma and=20
Jud Virden at the Battelle Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. The =
team will=20
present a paper on the work October 28 at the DOE Automotive Technology=20
Development Customers' Coordination Meeting.</P>
<P>The new device is a kind of electrical gas heater known as a =
plasmatron. Fuel=20
injected into the plasmatron is exposed to an arc of electricity that =
turns the=20
fuel and surrounding air into an electrically charged gas, or plasma. =
The plasma=20
accelerates reaction rates allowing the production of hydrogen-rich gas =
in a=20
compact device--the plasmatron.</P>
<P>Plasmatrons have traditionally been used to produce hydrogen-rich gas =
for=20
industrial applications like metallurgical processing. They are usually =
quite=20
large--about the size of a car engine--and require large amounts of =
electrical=20
power. "We're the first to develop a compact, low-power plasmatron," =
said Dr.=20
Cohn. "To our knowledge no-one has created one that's this small (you =
can hold=20
it in your hand) and that operates at low power (around one =
kilowatt)."</P>
<P>The researchers noted that conventional ways to produce hydrogen-rich =
gas=20
involve devices that, among other limitations, are presently bulky, =
heavy, and=20
can't effectively process biocrude oils. "They can basically do =
gasoline,=20
methanol and, with a stretch, diesel," Dr. Bromberg said.</P>
<P>In contrast, the new plasmatron works well with a variety of fuels. =
"We've=20
shown a very high degree of conversion (over 90 percent) of gasoline, =
diesel,=20
and biocrude fuels into hydrogen-rich gas," Dr. Cohn said.</P>
<P>Although in principle the plasmatron could process all of the fuel =
for a=20
vehicle, the researchers say that at present it's most cost-effective to =
convert=20
only a fraction of the fuel into hydrogen-rich gas. That's because even =
though=20
such gas increases the efficiency of an engine, the plasmatron itself =
consumes=20
energy. "Processing a fraction of the fuel should prevent any decrease =
in net=20
fuel consumption efficiency, and may in some cases improve net =
efficiency," Dr.=20
Cohn said.</P>
<P>Pollution reduction is significant. For example, converting 25-50 =
percent of=20
gasoline into hydrogen-rich gas "could reduce nitrogen oxide levels by a =
factor=20
of five to ten relative to operation without hydrogen-rich gas," Dr. =
Cohn said.=20
For natural gas, even less fuel need be converted for similar pollution=20
reductions.</P>
<P>Biocrude oils have their own environmental benefits. "Such oils might =
be=20
produced by fast-growing trees or other crops that absorb carbon =
dioxide,=20
compensating for the carbon dioxide produced by combustion," explained =
Dr.=20
Cohn.</P>
<P>The researchers are currently working to increase the efficiency and =
yields=20
of the plasmatron. They are also developing designs that will give a =
longer=20
lifetime for the electrodes.</P>
<P>In a parallel effort, they are conducting experiments on the effects =
of=20
hydrogen-rich gas on internal combustion engines. The original =
experiments to=20
this end that found significant benefits to the use of such gas were =
conducted=20
in the 70s. "We want to reexamine engine performance with hydrogen using =
modern=20
engines," Dr. Cohn said.</P>
<P>The new plasmatron grew out of work conducted over 15 years ago by =
Dr.=20
Rabinovich, who was then an engineer in the former Soviet Union. Drs.=20
Rabinovich, Cohn and Bromberg have written several papers on this topic, =
and in=20
1995 received a patent on using the plasmatron in internal combustion=20
engines.</P>
<P>The work is supported by the DOE Office of Heavy Vehicle =
Technologies. Dr.=20
Cohn noted that "we'd been considering these applications for some time, =
but it=20
wasn't until we received this DOE funding that we could really move =
forward to=20
try to validate our concepts for vehicular applications."</P>
<P>
<CENTER>--END--</CENTER>
<P></P>
<P>
<HR>
<A name=3Dcontact></A>CONTACTS:<BR>
<HR>

<TABLE border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD width=3D300>
      <P>Elizabeth Thomson<BR>MIT News Office<BR>(617) 258-5402<BR><A=20
      href=3D"mailto:thomson@mit.edu">thomson@mit.edu</A><BR>(please use =
this=20
      address for requesting photos) </P></TD>
    <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D300>
      <P>Daniel Cohn<BR>(617) 253-5524 </P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR>
<A href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/">News Releases</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/search.html">Search</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/">MIT News Office</A> | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/www/newsoffstaff.html">Comments</A>=
 | <A=20
href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/">MIT</A>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Look Out! Hornet Crossing Ahead!!
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plasmatron intro
  About....=20
      The Plasmatron=20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
          =20
            The Plasmatron with a carburetor.=20
          =20
            From left Leslie Bromberg, Alex Rabinovich and Daniel Cohn =
developers of the plasmatron. (Photo courtsey of Donna Coveney)=20
      The microplasmatron fuel converter (plasmatron) is a device that =
would be used on a vehicle to transform gasoline or other hydrocarbons =
into hydrogen rich gas. The plasmatron uses an electrically conducting =
gas (a plasma) to accelerate reactions which generate hydrogen rich gas. =
The hydrogen-gas, which is a high quality fuel, is then used as a fuel =
in the engine resulting in greatly reducing pollution. The small size =
and rapid response of the plasmatron make it suitable for use onboard =
vehicles.There is also a need to reduce air pollution from cars, trucks =
and buses. There is also a need to better use a greater variety of =
fuels, to reduce green house gas production and to conserve nonrenewable =
energy resources. Use of plasmatron will provide a means to meet these =
needs at acceptable cost and without the requirement to reduce vehicle =
range and performance.=20
      =20
      Return to Plasma Technology Home Page  =20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>plasmatron intro</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3Dhttp://www2.psfc.mit.edu/plasmatech/plasmatron1.html><!doctype =
html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<META content=3D"Adobe GoLive 4" name=3Dgenerator>
<META content=3D"Mozilla/4.6 (Macintosh; I; PPC) [Netscape]" =
name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY aLink=3D#0000ff background=3Dplas%20bkg.jpeg bgColor=3D#ffffff =
link=3D#00008b=20
text=3D#191970 vLink=3D#1e90ff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>&nbsp;=20
<TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 width=3D307>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD>
      <H1><B><I>About....</I></B></H1></TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD>
      <H1>The Plasmatron</H1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR>

<TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 width=3D576>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D288>
      <CENTER>
      <TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 width=3D228>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD><IMG align=3Dleft height=3D144 src=3D"plas._carb.jpeg"=20
width=3D224></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright>
            <H3>The Plasmatron with a carburetor.</H3></DIV></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD><IMG align=3Dleft height=3D144 src=3D"tech_talk.jpeg" =
width=3D216></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD>
            <H3>From left Leslie Bromberg, Alex Rabinovich and Daniel =
Cohn=20
            developers of the plasmatron. (Photo courtsey of Donna=20
          Coveney)</H3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD>
    <TD width=3D14></TD>
    <TD vAlign=3Dtop>
      <H3>The microplasmatron fuel converter (plasmatron) is a device =
that would=20
      be used on a vehicle to transform gasoline or other hydrocarbons =
into=20
      hydrogen rich gas. The plasmatron uses an electrically conducting =
gas (a=20
      plasma) to accelerate reactions which generate hydrogen rich gas. =
The=20
      hydrogen-gas, which is a high quality fuel, is then used as a fuel =
in the=20
      engine resulting in greatly reducing pollution. The small size and =
rapid=20
      response of the plasmatron make it suitable for use onboard =
vehicles.There=20
      is also a need to reduce air pollution from cars, trucks and =
buses. There=20
      is also a need to better use a greater variety of fuels, to reduce =
green=20
      house gas production and to conserve nonrenewable energy =
resources. Use of=20
      plasmatron will provide a means to meet these needs at acceptable =
cost and=20
      without the requirement to reduce vehicle range and=20
performance.</H3></TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD width=3D288></TD>
    <TD width=3D14></TD>
    <TD></TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD width=3D288>
      <H3><A href=3D"plasma_technology.html">Return to Plasma Technology =
Home=20
      Page</A></H3></TD>
    <TD width=3D14></TD>
    <TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BODY></HTML>

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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 17:55:55 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:37:33
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Thought experiment 186,000 mile bifilar wire
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Hi Butch,
At 01:34 PM 11/22/99 EST, you wrote:
>Attached is a drawing of a thought experment with two illustrations, A and
B. 
>If you close the circuits at the same time and after one second, open one 
>circuit of the bifilar wires in each illustration, you will get two very 
>different results. In A you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a 2 
>foot long wire. In B you will get a collapse of a magnetic field from a wire 
>372,000 miles long. The DC battery in each illustration used the same amount 
>of energy, but B produced the large magnetic field with it's ultra high 
>voltage during it's magnetic field collapse.

I don't know exactly what to think of your problem yet. Yes, you will get 2
very different results. I don't think the 2 batteries would have supplied
the same amount of energy, though.
First you have a wire 2 light-seconds long and am supplying current for 1
second, so it would behave more like some sort of transmission line, not an
"inductor". (An inductor would be such that V=L*di/dt.) Second even if it
could, the superconducting time constant would be a constraint.
I'm sure you would also get strange results when you started to charge a
parallel plate capacitor if, as a thought experiment, the plates were 2
light seconds on a side, something like filling a reservoir?
-Dave

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:10:39 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: "freenrg" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: MIT:   GEET Replication or GEET Theft?
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:07:12 +1100
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <tdlm3ss2lb3mhjeuio3f5a2u90pkr9l5cb@4ax.com>
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[snip all]
I don't think it is either a replication, or a theft. I think it's inferior.
The reason is because it requires electrical power to run, while the geet
device appears to produce a better result, using only exhaust heat.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:08:49 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Engine Ping
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:08:38 +1100
Organization: Improving
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References: <3837FE88.5164@cyberportal.net> <mdmh3sohenr1834ven679orbbhn4o07vl5@4ax.com> <38394F8F.2A8D@cyberportal.net> <hu3k3ssftdlct4ikk2b7abhqqofmtm36pc@4ax.com> <383A8891.6792@cyberportal.net>
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On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:29:05 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
[snip]
>
>
>In the first place the ionization will not ignite the gas.
>Positive... static-free charge is imparted to the gas.

Energetic alpha particles passing through the gas will rip electrons off
thousands of gas atoms, resulting in both positive and negative charges.
Essentially forming a plasma in the wake of the particles.
If this were not so, geiger counters would not be able to register alpha
particles, and also smoke detectors would not work.
This is also exactly what happens when a spark is produced by the spark
plug.
The only difference is that the spark plug produces many more ions than the
alpha source.
The difference may be enough to avoid detonation, but in that case the alpha
source is useless anyway.

>It is only when this positive gas sees a negative static
>charge when it ignites. Typically alpha sources are used
>to rid environments of static charge.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:50:21 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.f518b037.256cba6c@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:50:04 EST
Subject: Re:From Butch To Dave Dameron 186,000 mile bifilar wire
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In a message dated 11/23/99 7:58:08 PM Central Standard Time, 
ddameron@earthlink.net writes:

> I don't think the 2 batteries would have supplied
>  the same amount of energy, though.
>  First you have a wire 2 light-seconds long and am supplying current for 1
>  second, so it would behave more like some sort of transmission line, not an
>  "inductor". (An inductor would be such that V=L*di/dt.) Second even if it
>  could, the superconducting time constant would be a constraint.
>  I'm sure you would also get strange results when you started to charge a
>  parallel plate capacitor if, as a thought experiment, the plates were 2
>  light seconds on a side, something like filling a reservoir?
Dave,
1.Do you see a magnetic field forming around the wire as the voltage 
potential wavefront (current impulse) moves up the wire?
2. What do you see going on inside battery B, as compared to what is going on 
inside battery A, during this one second period as far as it's potential 
energy drain. I see positive ion progression up the positive wire on the left 
in example B.
Will more current flow thru B than A ? If so, why? The current is limited to 
one amp. in both battery A and B.
3.Here's a good one! When the voltage wave front is moving up the wire and is 
a Quarter of the way around the circuit, does the battery or the wave front 
know how much longer the wire is? Does it at that point know it is in a wire 
372,000 miles long or one that is going to end in 10 more feet? How (if it 
can) does it sense it is in a wire that is part of a closed circuit at this 
point or an open circuit?
4.Does the battery in B know the the electron flow going out is traveling for 
two light seconds or does it know that the electrons coming in have traveled 
for 2 light seconds or one foot as in example A?
5.What I trying to say is, if induction (bifilar wires), and resistance, are 
zero, for theory, how does battery A and B know which wire circuit they are 
connected to?
Thanks,
Butch

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:57:40 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: FREE working device gift from me to you...
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:03:55 -0500
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Zack writes:
>I liked the idea of making radioactive intake/exhaust valves.
>
>Some of the older cars had valves with hollow stems containing pure 
>sodium (which has a very low melting point) to help distribute the heat.  
>Something could just as easily be made with some other material.
>
>Zack

Yes, this is an interesting approach.  Another idea that has been presented
has been to use the pellets on the air intake manifold.  One could maybe
also do a radioactive version GEET/Plasmatron hybrid and use the work
function of the pellets to ionize a portion of the fuel as well, instead of
using a spark.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 23:03:43 1999
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From: HLafonte@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.4a1e30d8.256ce705@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:00:21 EST
Subject: Sites were down today, back up now
To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com
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I have updated my sites with thought experiment and picture of my first 
bifilar coil made by electric motor shop.
Butch
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html">LAFONTE RESEARCH SITE 1<
/A>  or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/index.html
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html">LAFONTE RESEARCH SITE 
2</A> or http://members.aol.com/haroldwayne/site2.html 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Nov 23 23:33:26 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:15:01
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Dave Dameron <ddameron@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:From Butch To Dave Dameron 186,000 mile bifilar wire
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Hi Butch,
At 10:50 PM 11/23/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/23/99 7:58:08 PM Central Standard Time, 
>ddameron@earthlink.net writes:
>
>> I don't think the 2 batteries would have supplied
>>  the same amount of energy, though.
>>  First you have a wire 2 light-seconds long and am supplying current for 1
>>  second, so it would behave more like some sort of transmission line,
not an
>>  "inductor". (An inductor would be such that V=L*di/dt.) Second even if it
>>  could, the superconducting time constant would be a constraint.
>>  I'm sure you would also get strange results when you started to charge a
>>  parallel plate capacitor if, as a thought experiment, the plates were 2
>>  light seconds on a side, something like filling a reservoir?
>Dave,
>1.Do you see a magnetic field forming around the wire as the voltage 
>potential wavefront (current impulse) moves up the wire?
Yes.

>2. What do you see going on inside battery B, as compared to what is going
on 
>inside battery A, during this one second period as far as it's potential 
>energy drain. I see positive ion progression up the positive wire on the
left 
>in example B.
>Will more current flow thru B than A ? If so, why? The current is limited to 
>one amp. in both battery A and B.
What current is in B is unknown. See #3.

>3.Here's a good one! When the voltage wave front is moving up the wire and
is 
>a Quarter of the way around the circuit, does the battery or the wave front 
>know how much longer the wire is? Does it at that point know it is in a wire 
>372,000 miles long or one that is going to end in 10 more feet? How (if it 
>can) does it sense it is in a wire that is part of a closed circuit at this 
>point or an open circuit?
The battery in B doesn't "see" what is at the other end for 2 seconds- 1
second to travel to the (opposite) end and 1 second to travel back. Before
then it sees a transmission line of some impedance and supplies current
determined by that impedance. It also may have antenna effects.

>4.Does the battery in B know the the electron flow going out is traveling
for 
>two light seconds or does it know that the electrons coming in have traveled 
>for 2 light seconds or one foot as in example A?
In A the current will stabilize in several nS.

>5.What I trying to say is, if induction (bifilar wires), and resistance, are 
>zero, for theory, how does battery A and B know which wire circuit they are 
>connected to?
Transmission line effects (propagation time around the loop and field
propagation across it).
-Dave

>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 00:21:50 1999
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From: Chris Belt <chrisbelt@cmnet.co.th>
To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'billb@eskimo.com'"
	 <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Anybody interetsed in audio?
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:24:14 +0700
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I hope I'm not out of line with this message. The subject doesn't seem as 'high brow' as some of the stuff on this list, however it is definitely dealing with anomalies of physics. Or rather, anomalies of both physics and biology. As the introductory lett

er to this list says, "if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilities".

After fifteen years of empirical research, my father has discovered that electronic equipment (such as audio equipment) and modern manufactured materials (plastics and metals) are associated with energy patterns which impair the physiological perception o

f humans. Thus when listening to an audio system, our senses are attenuated (put under a physiological 'stress') by the surrounding 'adverse energy patterns', and we are therefore unable to perceive the subtleties of the music. My father has designed some

 commercially available 'devices' which negate, or manipulate, these 'adverse energy patterns' in such a way as our senses are liberated and we are able to perceive the music as having more clarity and naturalness.

This (if true!) raises two very interesting points. Firstly, what are the (previously unknown) 'adverse energy patterns'? Secondly, what other effects can be obtained by the negation or manipulation the 'adverse energy patterns'.

For anyone who is interested, there is an independent and introductory article about one of my fathers simple 'devices' written by the Canadian audio journalist Greg Weaver for the Soundstage online audio magazine. The article can be found at http://www.s

oundstage.com/synergize/ and is dated April 1999, and can be found in the archive section at the bottom of this month's article. A follow up article was published in July 1999 which can also be found in the archive section.

If anyone would like a free sample of the specially treated Foil mentioned by Greg Weaver, I would be happy too arrange it. Obviously, the aim would by to produce "interesting, testable, real-world phenomena" by attaching some strips of the specially trea

ted Foil to an audio system and noting the perceived improvement to the sound.

Chris Belt, chrisbelt@cmnet.co.th 


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 00:43:54 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:42:45 -0800
From: D Adams <donadams@telusplanet.net>
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Does anyone know of any online resource that reports on gobal health issues?
Specifically I am looking for some sort of chart that illustrates demographics
of
cancer rates among the populations of different countries, ie a comparative
report showing
which countries have the highest occurences of cancer and which countries are
lower...



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 00:55:35 1999
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From: "Eric Tonkins" <vegan@sprynet.com>
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Subject: Solar Still as a power source?
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I was looking at Y2K build it yourself stuff and I found out about Solar =
Water Stills.  The idea behind the Solar Still is that heated water =
raises, collects on the glass ceiling of the still and runs off for the =
purified water to be collected and consumed.
=20
Now, water is feed into the bottom and your "elevated" collection point =
is adjustable.  It seems to me that if you made your Solar Water Still =
with a "closed loop" and an "inline" water turbine - you would have a =
PERPETUAL WATERWHEEL powered by the Sun.  You could even regulate at =
what point and psi that the "collection tank" spilled back into the =
bottom of the Still.
=20
"Small-scale" Solar Stills manufacture up to 5 gallons a day.  How many =
gallons at what psi would power a light bulb for how long?  Or what kind =
of charge could you put on a 12 volt?

Seems like the premise is sound.  It's just a matter of tweaking for =
best results.  I've attached plans for one of the many stills to be =
found on the internet.

Till Later, Eric

Favorite Quote:
" Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up.
      Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! "

Eric Tonkins
EMail:  vegan@virtuallyfreeinternet.com
Internet:  http://my.name.is/freedrawing4you
Phone:  (775) 530-5217
Home Office:  634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was looking at Y2K build it yourself stuff and I =
found out=20
about&nbsp;Solar Water Stills.&nbsp; <FONT size=3D2>The idea behind the =
Solar=20
Still is that heated water raises, collects on the glass ceiling of the =
still=20
and runs off for the purified water to be collected and=20
consumed.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>Now, water is feed into the bottom =
and your=20
"elevated"&nbsp;collection point is adjustable.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>It =
seems to me=20
that if you made your&nbsp;Solar Water Still with a "closed loop" and=20
an&nbsp;"inline" water turbine - you would have a PERPETUAL WATERWHEEL =
powered=20
by the Sun.&nbsp; You could even regulate at what point and psi that the =

"collection tank" spilled back into the bottom of the =
Still.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Small-scale" Solar Stills manufacture up to 5 =
gallons a=20
day.&nbsp; How many gallons at what psi would power a light bulb for how =

long?&nbsp; Or what kind of charge could you put on a 12 =
volt?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Seems like the premise is sound.&nbsp; It's just a =
matter of=20
tweaking for best results.&nbsp; I've attached plans for one of the many =
stills=20
to be found on the internet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><BR>Till Later, =
Eric</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Favorite Quote:<BR>" Wonderful times only happen to =
you if you=20
show up.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Unless you show up, you'll =
never have=20
one ! "</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eric Tonkins<BR>EMail:&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:vegan@virtuallyfreeinternet.com">vegan@virtuallyfreeintern=
et.com</A><BR>Internet:&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://my.name.is/freedrawing4you">http://my.name.is/freedrawing4=
you</A><BR>Phone:&nbsp;=20
(775) 530-5217<BR>Home Office:&nbsp; 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV=20
89431</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF35F8.776F2F00--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 03:53:58 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Nuclear Source
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:53:49 +1100
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <jksm3s414rjr2349ee4lmcp9idti2qo9su@4ax.com>
References: <382BFC1B.51E0@cyberportal.net> <aIssOHjyk1WuG=RSilFSaY0UzaUQ@4ax.com> <382D6DEF.585@cyberportal.net> <ddgtOL2vZF+scjK5MHhlvmN6nj4b@4ax.com> <382E1E42.6279@cyberportal.net> <ci0uODA47XlrC0HdKesQ6wS4HjTO@4ax.com> <382E40F8.68E2@cyberportal.net>

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On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:39:31 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
[snip]
>> >> > very efficiently by a glow regulator.
>> 
>> Could you specify the actual conversion mechanism?
>
>
>You'll eat this one up... it is the very heart of
>the Moray device and Tesla's Early Radiant Energy
>Patent. No fringe science... just an atomic cell...
>a self charging capacitor if you will... one hitch
>here... our cell is fusion powered for high wattage.
>The patent that you have referenced is straight fission.

Ok Bruce, I assume you are referring to a similar arrangement as in the
patent, where charged particles fight against a voltage gradient, and are
slowed down in the process, so delivering up their energy in the form of
high voltage. Thus the "charged capacitor" to which you refer. This still
doesn't explain how the (DC) voltage is transformed "down" though.
I.e. where how does a glow regulator turn high voltage low current into low
voltage high current?

>
>
>> 
>> >>
>> >> Ok, now this is interesting technology. Could you be a little more specific?
>> >
>> >
>> >U.S. Pat. No. 2,728,867 details a method to obtain our objective.
>> [snip]
[snip]
>> and night. The problems would be horrific if there were one in every home.
>> (Radioactive contamination due to lack of maintenance would be widespread).
>
>
>Not a problem if you have almost zero neutron emission.

Which is to be expected, when one considers that it takes about 12000 alphas
to create 1 neutron in alpha-fusion. (see
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/5/0,5716,119795+17,00.html ).

This article states that 1 gm of Am-241 in Be yields about 10^7 neutrons
/sec. The activity of 1 gm of Am-241 is 1.268E11 alphas / sec.
(I've been hunting for this info for a week :( ).

Now the question arises, if only 1 alpha in 12000 fuses with Be, where does
alpha-fusion get it's power from? (Obviously not from Be + He -> C-12 + n).
[snip]
>> >> >The reactor can be designed so
>> >> >that there is zero neutron emission.

This is now placed in a new light.
[snip]
>> >> If this is to be widely used, then that source will need to be considerable,
>> >> and reasonably cheap. What do you have in mind?
>> >
>> >
>> >Yes... alpha fusion with the controlled electronic release of neutrons.

But the few neutrons you would get from Be + He are not going to result in
useful energy.

>> 
>> But just up above, you state "The reactor can be designed so that there is
>> zero neutron emission." Now the zero neutron emission has suddenly become a
>> controlled release of neutrons.
>> 
>> >The released neutrons when they bombard fully depleted uranium results
>> >in secondary beta particles (electricity).

But there aren't going to be any neutrons worth speaking about.

>> 
>> Yes about 1.6 MeV betas for every 5.7 MeV neutron, but also some fission,
>> and also 1 Pu239 for nearly every neutron.
>
>
>However... if you electronically control the reaction you can
>minimize stray neutrons.
[snip]
It doesn't look much like electronic control (or any other form of control
for that matter) are going to be needed.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 03:58:49 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Solar Still as a power source?
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:58:43 +1100
Organization: Improving
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On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:19:45 -0800, Eric Tonkins wrote:
[snip]
>Now, water is feed into the bottom and your "elevated" collection point is adjustable.  It seems to me that if you made your Solar Water Still with a "closed loop" and an "inline" water turbine - you would have a PERPETUAL WATERWHEEL powered by the Sun. 

 You could even regulate at what point and psi that the "collection tank" spilled back into the bottom of the Still.
[snip]
This is a closed loop version of something already in use as an open loop
system - hydro-electricity.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 09:32:08 1999
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From: Colin Quinney <quinney@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: World Health Inquiry (Off Topic)
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If you can't find out directly with the WHO's search engine,
<http://www.who.int/home/search/>,
try contacting them.

Colin Quinney

At 01:42 AM 11/24/99 -0800, D.Adams wrote:
>Does anyone know of any online resource that reports on global health issues?
>Specifically I am looking for some sort of chart that illustrates
demographics
>of
>cancer rates among the populations of different countries, ie a comparative
>report showing
>which countries have the highest occurences of cancer and which countries are
>lower...

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 17:24:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Solar Still as a power source?
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> This is a closed loop version of something already in use as an open loop
> system - hydro-electricity.
> Regards,
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

Absolutely Robin.  But my point is that in the Desert, in the Plains, or
anywhere else that has restricted access to flowing water - a Solar Still
could provide free flowing water.

Till Later, Eric

Favorite Quote:
" Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up.
      Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! "

Eric Tonkins
EMail:  vegan@virtuallyfreeinternet.com
Internet:  http://my.name.is/freedrawing4you
Phone:  (775) 530-5217
Home Office:  634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 21:56:28 1999
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References: <000c01bf363b$8746d5c0$47d38ad1@ets> <flkn3scslrrrueu4ba2rm64p5bvg0g1ppk@4ax.com> <003a01bf36e3$ec717d80$51accdcf@ets>
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any ideas as to the logistics a device would have to be built by to produce
meaningful
amounts of energy / work?

Eric Tonkins wrote:

> > This is a closed loop version of something already in use as an open loop
> > system - hydro-electricity.
> > Regards,
> > Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Absolutely Robin.  But my point is that in the Desert, in the Plains, or
> anywhere else that has restricted access to flowing water - a Solar Still
> could provide free flowing water.
>
> Till Later, Eric
>
> Favorite Quote:
> " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up.
>       Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! "
>
> Eric Tonkins
> EMail:  vegan@virtuallyfreeinternet.com
> Internet:  http://my.name.is/freedrawing4you
> Phone:  (775) 530-5217
> Home Office:  634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431



--
***********************************************************
Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it,
don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale
Cooper
...

======================================================================
Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for
Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name)

RAVE Communications

206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA
780-998-4066 Canada

http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave

alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Wed Nov 24 23:27:21 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.57566146.256e3ed4@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 02:27:16 EST
Subject: ARDA Mk3 (The Biefeld-Brown effect wing) project status 
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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Dear All,

You will find below the current project status of the ARDA (Advanced Reduced 
Drag Aircraft) the EHD wing which uses the Biefeld Brown effect.

The main page of the ARDA EHD wing Mk3 is at :

  http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav3.htm

ARDA Mk3 project status (11-24-99)
Avionic Installation.............: OK
High Voltage generator...........: OK 
Main Power pack..................: OK
HV Power switch test.............: OK
Flight commands checked..........: OK
Main motor tests.................: OK
EMI check with HV................: OK 
EHD systems checked..............: OK

See the latest picture of the avionic and HV installation in the ARDA wing at 
:

       http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/images/arda3eqp.jpg

Countdown in progress...

Best Regards,
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 25 06:21:22 1999
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Hi
Examiners try to avoid that, but . . . . 
IF ONE HAS A PATENT
and it is proven afterwards that 
a publication was done
before the priority date
even in a small 150 people village 
say alaska or Shen_shau, China
YOUR COMPLETE PATENT CAN BE
DECLARED WORTHLESS BY A JUDGE.

I know for sure that big companies
when finding a novelty and
presume the competitor
works on it also, arrange in such a way
that a insignificant article which mentions
the novelty will be publicized the next day
in a village down under say New Guinea.

So done one avoids that the competition
will protect the idea. And it cost nothing.

IDEA FOR LIST MEMBERS ?



Harvey Norris wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all, the gout has me on crutches and I thought I'd spend some time at the
> ibm patent server. Special thanks to Fred Epps who got me started on this
> from his previous post on the low core loss rotating flux transformer, quite
> remarkable I thought. I began to wonder what a patent costs. At
> http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ the fees for the
> bare minimum seem to be $760.00 for basic filing fee, $310.00 for design
> filing fee to name a few of their fees. Now it appears that after 1980 the
> patent office began charging what they call maintenance fees. I dont know if
> they did not do this in this past, but from the looks of the fees demanded
> it would seem that if Tesla had to pay these fees for his many patents, it
> could have bankrupted him, although he already did a pretty good job in that
> category.The maintenance fee after 3 1/2 years is $940, 7 1/2 is $1900.00
> and 11 1/2 is $2910.00.  I dont know how long a patent lasts, I've heard it
> was 20 years. So my question became, is this legitimate, after all havent we
> all heard the old saying about a patent being nothing more than a liscense
> to steal?
> 
> So I selected a recently issued patent on Oct 19,1999 that was filed a
> little over 2 years previous to this. It may interest the group that the
> term bifilar-wound secondary is used to describe a center tapped secondary,
> I didnt know if those terms were exactly synonomous, but thats what the
> patent examiners accepted as a description. This patent is entitled  Three
> phase to Six phase wye transformer power system contained at
> http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05969510__   A description
> follows.
> 
> The present invention discloses a method for providing balanced power to a
> single-phase ac load from a three-phase ac power source. The method includes
> imposing an isolation power transformer between the ac power source and the
> load wherein the isolation
> transformer has a three-phase primary winding and a six-phase "wye"
> connected secondary winding, at least one of the three legs of the secondary
> having a center tap and being connected to the load such that the center tap
> provides a reference potential for the load and the reactive load currents
> are equal and inversely-phased with respect to the reference potential.
> 
> Now it is my understanding that a patent is supposed to be something new, so
> I decided to go back to Teslas time and see if any mentions were made of
> this idea. In fact the source I am quoting was prefaced the month of his
> death, Jan 1943.  This is the Applied Electronics in the Pricinciples of
> Electrical Engineering Series of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
> (MIT) This may have been my grandfathers book who coincidently was named
> Harvey O. Norris, (his unusual middle name constantly escapes my memory).
> Anyways in section 4  of standard rectifier circuits, pg 353 it is stated
> "There are at least forty different transformer circuits for connecting
> three-, six-, and twelve phase rectifiers to three phase supplies. The
> advantages and disadvantages of these  circuits must be found from
> individual analysis." Now previous to this page a diagram shows a wye -star
> connection of a core type transformer. The secondary outputs have a
> secondary neutral connected across the center taps. This arrangement is
> exactly the same as that in the patent schematic at
> http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ The only
> difference I can see is that only one center tap is shown connected. The
> inventor again refers to these outputs as three bifilar wound single phase
> secondaries. Does this mean I can open an old book and take the schematic
> and idea to the patent office, and patent it? Maybe they just want the
> filing fees. Something to think about. HDN
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
> Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:39:39 -0500
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Gerard writes:
>Hi
>Examiners try to avoid that, but . . . . 
>IF ONE HAS A PATENT
>and it is proven afterwards that 
>a publication was done
>before the priority date
>even in a small 150 people village 
>say alaska or Shen_shau, China
>YOUR COMPLETE PATENT CAN BE
>DECLARED WORTHLESS BY A JUDGE.

I don't know where you are from, but over here the large corporation would
just buy the judge.  They are even cheaper than the patents these days in
some states.

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 25 09:07:00 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:21:06 -0600
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From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: A THANKSGIVING SERMON
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The following was composed by one of the greatest orators and original
thinkers of the 19th century:  Robert G. Ingersoll.

Today is an appropriate day to contemplate his concepts.

_____________________________________

Excerpts from Robert G. Ingersoll's:

A THANKSGIVING SERMON

Many ages ago our fathers were living in dens and caves.  Their bodies,
their low foreheads were covered with hair.  They were eating berries,
roots, bark and vermin.  They were fond of snakes and raw fish.  They
discovered fire and, probably by accident, learned how to cause it by
friction.  They found how to warm themselves -- to fight the frost and
storm.  They fashioned clubs and rude weapons of stone with which they
killed the larger beasts and now and then each other.  Slowly, painfully,
almost imperceptibly they advanced.  They crawled and stumbled, staggered
and struggled toward the light.  To them the world was unknown.  On every
hand was the mysterious, the sinister, the hurtful.  The forests were
filled with monsters, and the darkness was crowded with ghosts, devils, and
fiendish gods.

These poor wretches were the slaves of fear, the sport of dreams.

Now and then, one rose a little above his fellows -- used his senses -- the
little reason that he had -- found something new -- some better way.  Then
the people killed him and afterward knelt with reverence at his grave.
Then another thinker gave his thought -- was murdered -- another tomb
became sacred -- another step was taken in advance.  And so through
countless years of ignorance and cruelty -- of thought and crime -- of
murder and worship, of heroism, suffering, and self-denial, the human race
has reached the heights where now we stand.

Looking back over the long and devious roads that lie between the barbarism
of the past and the civilization of today, thinking of the centuries that
rolled like waves between these distant shores, we can form some idea of
what our fathers suffered -- of the mistakes they made -- some idea of
their ignorance, their stupidity -- and some idea of their sense, their
goodness, their heroism.

It is a long road from the savage to the scientist -- from leaves to
clothes -- from a flickering rush to the arc light -- from a hammer of
stone to the modern mill -- from a floating log to the steamship -- from a
sickle to a reaper -- from a hand loom to a Jacquard, a Jacquard that
weaves fair forms and wondrous flowers beyond Arachne's utmost dream --
from a few hieroglyphics on the skins of beasts, on bricks of clay -- to a
printing press, to a library -- a long distance from the messenger,
traveling on foot, to the electric spark -- a long distance from sand to
telescopes -- from echo to phonograph -- a long way from a fallen tree to
the suspension bridge -- from the dried sinews of beasts to the cables of
steel -- from the oar to the propeller -- a long distance from slavery to
freedom -- from appearance to fact -- from fear to reason.

And yet the distance has been traveled by the human race.

Whom shall we thank?

Standing here at the close of this century -- amid the trophies of thought
-- the triumphs of genius -- knowing something of the history of humanity
-- here on this day that has been set apart for thanksgiving:

I most reverently thanks the good men, the good women of the past, I thank
the kind fathers, the loving mothers of the savage days.  I thank the
father who spoke the first gentle word, the mother who first smiled upon
her babe.  I thank the first true friend.  I thank the savages who hunted
and fished that they and their babes might live.  I thank those who
cultivated the ground and changed the forests into farms -- those who built
rude homes and watched the faces of their happy children in the glow of
fireside flames -- those who domesticated horses, cattle and sheep -- those
who invented wheels and looms and taught us to spin and weave -- those who
by cultivation changed wild grasses into wheat and corn, changed bitter
things to fruit, and worthless weeds to flowers, that sowed within our
souls the seeds of art.

I thank the poets of the dawn -- the tellers of legends -- the makers of
myths -- the singers of joy and grief, of hope and love.  I thank the
artists who chiseled forms in stone and wrought with light and shade the
face of man.  I thank the philosophers, the thinkers, who taught us how to
use our minds in the great search for truth.  I thank the astronomers who
explored the heavens, told us the secrets of the stars, the glories of the
constellations -- the geologists who found the story of the world in fossil
forms, in memoranda kept in ancient rocks, in lines written by waves, by
frost and fire -- the anatomists who sought in muscle, nerve and bone for
all the mysteries of life -- the chemists who unraveled Nature's work that
they might learn her art -- the physicians who have laid the hand of
science on the brow of pain, the hand whose magic touch restores ....

I thank the great inventors -- those who gave us movable type and the
press, by means of which great thoughts and all discovered facts are made
immortal -- the inventors of engines, of the great ships, of the railways,
the cables and telegraphs.  I thank the great mechanics, the workers in
iron and steel, in wood and stone.  I thank the inventors and makers of the
numberless things of use and luxury.

I thank the industrious men, the loving mothers, the useful women.  They
are the benefactors of our human race.

I thank the honest men and women who have expressed their sincere thoughts,
who have been true to themselves and have preserved the veracity of their
souls.

I thank the thinkers of Greece and Rome, Zeno and Epicurus, Cicero and
Lucretius.  I thank Bruno, the bravest, and Spinoza, the subtlest of men.

I thank Voltaire, whose thought lighted a flame in the brain of man,
unlocked the doors of superstition's cells and gave liberty to many
millions of his fellow-men.  Voltaire -- a name that sheds light.  Voltaire
-- a star that superstition's darkness cannot quench.

I thank the great poets -- the dramatists.  I thank Homer and Aeschylus,
and I thank Shakespeare above them all.  I thank Burns for the heart-throbs
he changed into songs, for his lyrics of flame.  I thank Shelley for his
Skylark, Keats for his Grecian Urn and Byron for his Prisoner of Chillon.
I thank the great novelists.  I thank the great sculptors.  I thank the
unknown one who moulded and chiseled the Venus de Milo.  I thank the great
painters.  I thank Rembrandt and Corot.  I thank all who have created the
great, the noble, the heroic and artistic ideals.

I thank the great scientists -- those who have reached the foundation, the
bed-rock -- who have built upon facts.

The scientists never persecuted, never imprisoned their fellow-men.  They
forged no chains, built no dungeons, erected no scaffolds -- tore no flesh
with red hot pinchers -- dislocated no joints on racks -- crushed no bones
in iron boots -- extinguished no eyes -- tore out no tongues and lighted no
stakes.  They did not pretend to be inspired.  They were only intelligent
and honest men.  They did not appeal to force or fear.  They did not regard
men as slaves to be ruled by torture, by lash and chain, nor as children to
be cheated with illusions, rocked in the cradle of an idiot creed and
soothed by a lullaby of lies.

They did not wound -- they healed.  They did not kill -- they lengthened
life.  They did not enslave -- they broke the chains and made men free.
They sowed the seeds of knowledge, and many millions have reaped, are
reaping, and will reap the harvest of joy.  I thank the scientists one and
all.

I thank the heroes, the destroyers of prejudice and fear -- the dethroners
of savage gods -- the extinguishers of hate's eternal fire -- the heroes,
the breakers of chains -- the heroes who fought and fell on countless
fields -- the heroes whose dungeons became shrines -- the heroes whose
blood made scaffolds sacred -- the heroes, the apostles of reason, the
disciples of truth, the soldiers of freedom -- the heroes who held high the
holy torch and filled the world with light.

With all my heart I thank them all.


ROBERT G. INGERSOLL, 1897

_________________________

>From the Dresden Edition, featuring the collected writings of Robert G.
Ingersoll and published as 12 volumes in 1900.


www.josephnewman.com


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 25 12:19:48 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Electrotherapy
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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:14:04 PST
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While my one foot had swelled to 1 1/2 the size of the other foot because of
gout, I decided it was time for some electrotherapy. In 1998 I had gout like
this, it lasted about 5 weeks. I am kind of convinced my treatments helped
dramatically, as I can walk without crutches now. Back then I took a
medication known as indomethacin, it did not seem to help then, and after
two weeks of taking this I declined to revisit the specialist who told me to
visit my family physician instead. Now I am taking this medication again,
and in conjunction with the electrotherapy, with good results, the swelling
has decreased, along with the pain. Incidentally Jerry Decker of Keelynet
posted a URL recently from Science News Online on medicinal EMF's 
from 11-13-99.(URL can be found in Keelynet Archives)
This breifly states that emfs reduce pain and swelling, I beleive it now
from experience.

To describe my apparatus is fairly simple, although I doubt if anyone has
the tools for duplicating these results. I took two large air core inductors
of 1000 ohms and put them into series resonance from the 120 volt, 60 hz
wall supply. Then I placed the coils together at their poles,in magnetic
agreement. An additional consideration was that each coil and capacitor was
resonated 180 degrees out of phase with respect to the other. This simply
means that the connections to the wall were reversed with respect to the
other. To get magnetic agreement between the two identically wound coils
placed together at the poles one of the coils must be turned around, thus
actually they are in a bifilar arrangement, even though they produce
magnetic agreement by virtue of a double negative. I then had to recalculate
the capacities needed to resonate in the coils because of the effect of
mutual inductance between the coils. This caused the coils to appear to have
about 8% more inductance than would be if the coils acted alone in space.

Now at the points between the capacitors and coils in
series or the midpoints of the series resonant circuits I attached
connections to 2 long copper bars. These bars are about a foot apart,
sitting on an insulator such as varnished wood. Another 2 bars are placed on
the inside of these with a very small air gap between them, along their
length. These bars are then connected to the plates to treat the affected
areas.

For the treatment of my foot I used a plexiglass? clipboard available at
Wallmart. On the back of this alumium foil is taped and the plate is
sandwiched by taping the clipboard down on other insulator.The other plate
was made smaller width for the arch of the foot, again from aluminum foil
taped to plexiglass. It is not safe to touch the bare electrodes if you are
grounded, as you will be shocked. In an ungrounded condition this is
permissible, leading to unusual effects of lighting neon bulbs to people,
ect. However I have been shocked too many times already playing around with
that kind off stuff, which last time I tried the aluminum siding it bit me.

What is observed is that the device does nothing when turned on. It hums
away at 60 hz. A square induction coil from a microwave is placed on the
pole of a specific coil to serve as a sensor by the induced currents from
the coils magnetic fields. What is observed is two very closely matched 60
hz waves. The small phase difference can be seen in the higher frequency
range by changing the seconds/division setting into the microsecond range.
This is due to the fact that each coil actually has a difference of about
2.6 Henries, (52.1 and 54.7 Henries)and the system hasnt been fine tuned.
Because of the small phase difference some kind of constructive or
destuctive event occurs when viewing the 60 hz wave at a 5 millisecond per
division rate where the sine wave appears to blink rather than a steady
display.

When one places the foot on the insulated larger electrode attached to an
inner bar, the body becomes part of a one ended capacity attached to the
unobvious potential of one series resonant branch, the only separation being
the plexiglass between the plate and the foot and the miniscule air gap
between the inner bar set and the outer. What happens is that a cascade of
miniature arcing occurs between those inner and outer bars,the moment one
places one's foot on the plexiglass insulated electrode. I placed the
oscilloscope sensor on the pole of that coil, expecting to find high
frequency in conjunction with arcing, as has been the case in the past. What
I found kind of astounded me because I had seen this kind of "impossible
signal" about 5 years ago when doing scalar experiments with 4 of these
coils. I discounted these signals because they could be seen at one scope
frequency setting but not another.

What happens is this: when the foot is placed on the device and arcing
between bars occurs, the oscilloscope now records an extra 60 hz signal from
its sensor coil, and that signal is almost 180 degrees out of phase!
Actually the phase difference is about 1/16th of a cycle.This can be seen at
the 1 milisecond/div osc. setting and the 2ms/div. But at 5 ms/div the
opposite signal is absent, and only the funny blicking wave shows itself.
The high frequency I have made before in similar methods was abscent
although my ancient scope did pick up the very high oscillations riding on
the waves. They quickly diminished or were damped as they say and only
occupied a small part of the total cycle. I will make another post about the
high frequencies observed in different methods and the creation of several
independent frequencies similar to a Lakhovsky MWO by methods other than
described here.

To show that the electric potential from each unobvious potential can travel
through the body one merely needs pick up the other smaller plexiglass
electrode and feel the influence of the other plate with one hand. Another
person not connected to the device will feel nothing from this smaller
electrode. The ideal treatment consists of sandwiching one foot between the
plates.
I will make another post to explain how I believe that the 180 phased signal
could appear even at all, and why it appears at one frequency setting and
not another.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Sincerly HDN
Binary Resonant System
http://www.insidetheweb/mbs.cgi/mb124201




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 25 15:25:53 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:14:41 -0300
From: Felix Meyer <ce3cwf@imaginativa.cl>
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Subject: Re: Patent when it is WORTHLESS !
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Ge Nefkens schrieb:
> 
> Hi
> Examiners try to avoid that, but . . . .
> IF ONE HAS A PATENT
> and it is proven afterwards that
> a publication was done
> before the priority date
> even in a small 150 people village
> say alaska or Shen_shau, China
> YOUR COMPLETE PATENT CAN BE
> DECLARED WORTHLESS BY A JUDGE.
> 
> I know for sure that big companies
> when finding a novelty and
> presume the competitor
> works on it also, arrange in such a way
> that a insignificant article which mentions
> the novelty will be publicized the next day
> in a village down under say New Guinea.
> 
> So done one avoids that the competition
> will protect the idea. And it cost nothing.
> 

MANY THANKS !

for this valuable idea.
Why to spend money for something which
anyhow does not protect you.

But your idea can ...

			Felix


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Thu Nov 25 23:54:52 1999
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Message-ID: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:42:26 +0100
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service
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        Newman-L Mailing List <newman-l@emachine.com>
Subject: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
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Hi,

I just spoke with the German
fellow Helmut Goebkes, 
who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site 
http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
permanent magnet motor !
He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
and he sounded very reliable on the phone.

He told me how it works:

He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
glued
about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
outwards, 
e.g. northpole. 
(He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
all north poles
outwards does not matter...)

Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
core put in front of it,
so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
bar already
acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
core.
This way the rotor is accelerated.
Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
core and then,
where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !

It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
its way.

The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
about 5 to 8 minutes
he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
remanenz B field
or something simular...

But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
together 
with expoy glue.
He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.

He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
without stopping.

So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
this easy !
-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 00:40:33 1999
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Message-ID: <006701bf37eb$c36ce880$037d4b82@iee.unihannover.de>
From: "Dr. Steinkamp" <steinkamp@iee.uni-hannover.de>
To: freenrg-l <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:53:52 +0100
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-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
An: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; Newman-L Mailing List
<newman-l@emachine.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 1999 01:42
Betreff: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !


> Hi,
>
> I just spoke with the German
> fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> permanent magnet motor !
> He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
>
> He told me how it works:
>
> He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> glued
> about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> outwards,
> e.g. northpole.
> (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> all north poles
> outwards does not matter...)
>
> Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> core put in front of it,
> so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> bar already
> acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> core.
> This way the rotor is accelerated.
> Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> core and then,
> where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
>
> It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> its way.
>
> The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> about 5 to 8 minutes
> he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> remanenz B field
> or something simular...
>
> But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> together
> with expoy glue.
> He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
>
> He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> without stopping.
>
> So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> this easy !
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
>

moin, moin,

wie wre es mit einer Skizze des Aufbaus?
Ein Bild sagt mehr als 1000 Worte, Grundsatz der Ingenieure.

mfg.

w.steinkamp

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 02:01:28 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:46:04 +0300
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It is a good news, but the idea to use GRADIENT of the field is known form
1979, as Japan inventor Kure Tekko, Denver Report 1994.

Alexander V. Frolov

Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just spoke with the German
> fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> permanent magnet motor !
> He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
>
> He told me how it works:
>
> He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> glued
> about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> outwards,
> e.g. northpole.
> (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> all north poles
> outwards does not matter...)
>
> Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> core put in front of it,
> so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> bar already
> acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> core.
> This way the rotor is accelerated.
> Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> core and then,
> where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
>
> It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> its way.
>
> The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> about 5 to 8 minutes
> he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> remanenz B field
> or something simular...
>
> But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> together
> with expoy glue.
> He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
>
> He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> without stopping.
>
> So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> this easy !
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877



From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 02:14:48 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:13:06 -0800
From: Gerard Nefkens <gn@wisemansbrand.com>
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Subject: Re: Patent when it is WORTHLESS !
References: <19991125163939781.AAA266@mail.lcia.com@lizard>
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I'm from Europe
NL/F
Is your comment covered by the first amendment ?
That's something we have not here.
Gerard


Michael T Huffman wrote:

>
> Gerard writes:
> >Hi
> >Examiners try to avoid that, but . . . .
> >IF ONE HAS A PATENT
> >and it is proven afterwards that
> >a publication was done
> >before the priority date
> >even in a small 150 people village
> >say alaska or Shen_shau, China
> >YOUR COMPLETE PATENT CAN BE
> >DECLARED WORTHLESS BY A JUDGE.
>
> I don't know where you are from, but over here the large corporation would
> just buy the judge.  They are even cheaper than the patents these days in
> some states.
>
> Knuke
>
> Michael T. Huffman
> Huffman Technology Company
> 1121 Dustin Drive
> The Villages, Florida 32159
> (352)259-1276
> knuke@LCIA.COM
> http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 04:37:50 1999
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Message-ID: <383E7F5D.6B15@cyberportal.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:38:53 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Engine Ping
References: <3837FE88.5164@cyberportal.net> <mdmh3sohenr1834ven679orbbhn4o07vl5@4ax.com> <38394F8F.2A8D@cyberportal.net> <hu3k3ssftdlct4ikk2b7abhqqofmtm36pc@4ax.com> <383A8891.6792@cyberportal.net> <7klm3s88c3e3o34e79evuv47tq58kok0kh@4ax.com>
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Robin,

You are always going completely to the books.
What if all of the energy is not coming from
the alpha particles... maybe they are a doorway
to energy from the ambiant? What I am saying is
that you need to balance theory with actual hardware.


          -BAP 



Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:29:05 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> >
> >In the first place the ionization will not ignite the gas.
> >Positive... static-free charge is imparted to the gas.
> 
> Energetic alpha particles passing through the gas will rip electrons off
> thousands of gas atoms, resulting in both positive and negative charges.
> Essentially forming a plasma in the wake of the particles.
> If this were not so, geiger counters would not be able to register alpha
> particles, and also smoke detectors would not work.
> This is also exactly what happens when a spark is produced by the spark
> plug.
> The only difference is that the spark plug produces many more ions than the
> alpha source.
> The difference may be enough to avoid detonation, but in that case the alpha
> source is useless anyway.
> 
> >It is only when this positive gas sees a negative static
> >charge when it ignites. Typically alpha sources are used
> >to rid environments of static charge.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 04:45:18 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:46:42 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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References: <382BFC1B.51E0@cyberportal.net> <aIssOHjyk1WuG=RSilFSaY0UzaUQ@4ax.com> <382D6DEF.585@cyberportal.net> <ddgtOL2vZF+scjK5MHhlvmN6nj4b@4ax.com> <382E1E42.6279@cyberportal.net> <ci0uODA47XlrC0HdKesQ6wS4HjTO@4ax.com> <382E40F8.68E2@cyberportal.net>

 <CUMuODp+P2obYoVbpTVJHE3WAoTw@4ax.com> <382EE32F.2F24@cyberportal.net> <+zUvOCiQfMNTbRhCxAxJ+jCMVWBa@4ax.com> <38300B21.1E59@cyberportal.net> <hfak3sgo64e9fbtg1l3ll8q2l2eatpev9k@4ax.com> <383A8B03.6D4B@cyberportal.net> <jksm3s414rjr2349ee4lmcp9idti2qo9su

@4ax.com>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
> Ok Bruce, I assume you are referring to a similar arrangement as in the
> patent, where charged particles fight against a voltage gradient, and are
> slowed down in the process, so delivering up their energy in the form of
> high voltage. Thus the "charged capacitor" to which you refer. This still
> doesn't explain how the (DC) voltage is transformed "down" though.
> I.e. where how does a glow regulator turn high voltage low current into low
> voltage high current?


This is shown in my latest book release. I had also
posted a diagram to this list a few weeks ago.


         -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 04:47:05 1999
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Message-ID: <383E80D2.54A55226@harti.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:45:06 +0100
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
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Has anybody understood how this works ?

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418/index.html

Regards, Stefan

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 08:28:05 1999
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From: "Nancy May" <nancy28@bellsouth.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>, "Newman-L Mailing List" <newman-l@emachine.com>
References: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com>
Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:31:02 -0800
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Hi Stefan and all,  H.Johnson,T. Bearden, J. Bedini, and R.Cole come up with
one a while back. Check it out.   http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
Joe




----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
To: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; Newman-L Mailing List
<newman-l@emachine.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:42 PM
Subject: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !


> Hi,
>
> I just spoke with the German
> fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> permanent magnet motor !
> He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
>
> He told me how it works:
>
> He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> glued
> about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> outwards,
> e.g. northpole.
> (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> all north poles
> outwards does not matter...)
>
> Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> core put in front of it,
> so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> bar already
> acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> core.
> This way the rotor is accelerated.
> Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> core and then,
> where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
>
> It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> its way.
>
> The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> about 5 to 8 minutes
> he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> remanenz B field
> or something simular...
>
> But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> together
> with expoy glue.
> He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
>
> He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> without stopping.
>
> So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> this easy !
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
>
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 08:49:32 1999
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Message-ID: <383EB7F1.BFA35217@mail.admiral.ru>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:40:17 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov@mail.admiral.ru>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------5805DDE32A7355F929B11894
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


--------------5805DDE32A7355F929B11894
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Missing Link (URL)</TITLE></HEAD>

<BODY BACKGROUND="http://www.nidlink.com/pic/bg2.jpg">

<P><CENTER><IMG SRC="/Images/csystemlogo.gif" ALT="C-Systems
logo"></CENTER>
<P>
<CENTER>
<HR noshade width="80%">
<H2>Missing Link (URL)</H2>
<P>
<H3>The page you have requested cannot be located on our server.</H3>
<BR>
<P>
<hr width=50%>
C-Systems, Inc.<br> 
610 W. Hubbard, Suite 125 (Harbor Plaza)<br> 
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814 
<BR>
(208) 769-7003<BR>
<hr>
C-Systems, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content on
sites linked from this page. The links are provided as is with no warranty, 
express or implied, for the information provided within them.
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--------------5805DDE32A7355F929B11894--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 08:50:29 1999
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References: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com> <005f01bf3844$c76ffcc0$82f14ed8@may>
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it is not valid!
-------

Nancy May wrote:

> Hi Stefan and all,  H.Johnson,T. Bearden, J. Bedini, and R.Cole come up with
> one a while back. Check it out.   http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
> Joe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
> To: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; Newman-L Mailing List
> <newman-l@emachine.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:42 PM
> Subject: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just spoke with the German
> > fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> > who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> > to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> > permanent magnet motor !
> > He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> > and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
> >
> > He told me how it works:
> >
> > He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> > glued
> > about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> > outwards,
> > e.g. northpole.
> > (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> > all north poles
> > outwards does not matter...)
> >
> > Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> > core put in front of it,
> > so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> > The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> > cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> > bar already
> > acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> > core.
> > This way the rotor is accelerated.
> > Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> > core and then,
> > where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
> >
> > It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> > there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> > Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> > its way.
> >
> > The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> > about 5 to 8 minutes
> > he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> > Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> > remanenz B field
> > or something simular...
> >
> > But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> > Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> > together
> > with expoy glue.
> > He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
> >
> > He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> > without stopping.
> >
> > So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> > It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> > it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> > this easy !
> > --
> >
> > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> > --
> > Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> > email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
> >
> >



--
http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877


From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 09:21:46 1999
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From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Patent when it is WORTHLESS !
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:30:48 -0500
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Gerard writes:
>I'm from Europe
>NL/F
>Is your comment covered by the first amendment ?
>That's something we have not here.
>Gerard

Yes, all my comments are covered by the first amendment.  It's been a
blessing and a curse at times, but overall it is considered by most people
here to be a good thing.  Everyone should have the right to free speech, in
my opinion.  Honest dialog can prevent a lot of misunderstandings.

I spent 8 years as a backpacker in my younger days.  I spent most of that
time in Europe, living and working at whatever jobs I could find.  I looked
at the governments, laws, traditions, cultures, educational systems,
lifestyles, and attitudes of a number of countries over there, and each was
unique.  I found things that I liked and didn't like in each country, but
overall, I liked Europe quite a lot.  I found most Europeans to be more
civilized, humane, and much better educated than most people from the US.
The standard of living is also much higher there than it is here.

I've been back in the US for about 11 years now, and it was difficult for me
to re-adjust to life in the US.  I still have great difficulties with some
of the things that I see happening here, but at least I am able to express
those difficulties, and attempt to do something about them.  Once in a great
while, I even see some change in what I would consider to be a positive
direction as a result of my speaking out.  Judging from your posts, I would
say that you are also an advocate of free speech in your country, and I hope
that you get it someday.

Good luck to you,

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 09:25:53 1999
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Message-ID: <383EC000.3AF630CE@sinectis.com.ar>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:14:41 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
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To: frolov@mail.admiral.ru, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Missing Link (URL)
References: <383EB7F1.BFA35217@mail.admiral.ru>
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--------------16D9CBB89D27CD383069FDC1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Alexander,

The right link is :
http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html

Greetings, Juan

"Alexander V. Frolov" escribi:

> http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
> --
> http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
> POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
> 7-812-2747877
>
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                            [C-Systemslogo]
>
>        ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>                           Missing Link (URL)
>
>      The page you have requested cannot be located on our server.
>
>                  ------------------------------------
>                            C-Systems, Inc.
>               610 W. Hubbard, Suite 125 (Harbor Plaza)
>                      Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814
>                            (208) 769-7003
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   C-Systems, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content on sites
> linked from this page. The links are provided as is with no warranty,
>     express or implied, for the information provided within them.
>

--------------16D9CBB89D27CD383069FDC1
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="------------DD76AA38A70DC808B60C49D4"


--------------DD76AA38A70DC808B60C49D4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body background="cid:part1.383EC000.7CC43A1E@sinectis.com.ar">
Hello Alexander,
<p>The right link is :
<br><A HREF="http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html">http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html</A>
<p>Greetings, Juan
<p>"Alexander V. Frolov" escribi&oacute;:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre WRAP><a href="http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html">http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
</a>--
<a href="http://www.time-machine.spb.ru">http://www.time-machine.spb.ru
</a>POB 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2747877

</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<center>
<p><img SRC="cid:part2.383EC000.7CC43A1E@sinectis.com.ar" ALT="C-Systemslogo" >
<p>
<hr noshade width="80%"></center>

<center>
<h2>
Missing Link (URL)</h2></center>

<center>
<h3>
The page you have requested cannot be located on our server.</h3></center>

<center>
<hr width=50%>C-Systems, Inc.
<br>610 W. Hubbard, Suite 125 (Harbor Plaza)
<br>Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814
<br>(208) 769-7003
<br>
<hr>C-Systems, Inc. accepts no responsibility for the content on sites
linked from this page. The links are provided as is with no warranty, express
or implied, for the information provided within them.</center>
</blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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--------------DD76AA38A70DC808B60C49D4--

--------------16D9CBB89D27CD383069FDC1--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 09:26:44 1999
Received: (from smartlst@localhost)
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	Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:26:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:26:43 -0800
Message-ID: <383EC055.ADA06644@sinectis.com.ar>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:16:05 -0300
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win98; I)
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To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
References: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com> <005f01bf3844$c76ffcc0$82f14ed8@may>
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Hello all,

The right link is:
http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html

Greetings, Juan


Nancy May escribi:

> Hi Stefan and all,  H.Johnson,T. Bearden, J. Bedini, and R.Cole come up with
> one a while back. Check it out.   http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
> Joe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
> To: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; Newman-L Mailing List
> <newman-l@emachine.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:42 PM
> Subject: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just spoke with the German
> > fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> > who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> > to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> > permanent magnet motor !
> > He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> > and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
> >
> > He told me how it works:
> >
> > He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> > glued
> > about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> > outwards,
> > e.g. northpole.
> > (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> > all north poles
> > outwards does not matter...)
> >
> > Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> > core put in front of it,
> > so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> > The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> > cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> > bar already
> > acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> > core.
> > This way the rotor is accelerated.
> > Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> > core and then,
> > where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
> >
> > It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> > there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> > Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> > its way.
> >
> > The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> > about 5 to 8 minutes
> > he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> > Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> > remanenz B field
> > or something simular...
> >
> > But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> > Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> > together
> > with expoy glue.
> > He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
> >
> > He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> > without stopping.
> >
> > So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> > It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> > it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> > this easy !
> > --
> >
> > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> > --
> > Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> > email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
> >
> >

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 09:52:25 1999
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	by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13988;
	Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:52:19 -0800
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From: DEADWATE@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.6313b498.257022cc@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:52:12 EST
Subject: Re: Mechanical energy machine ?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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In a message dated 11/26/1999 4:47:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
harti@harti.com writes:

<< Has anybody understood how this works ? >>
Yeah, with lots of energy input!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 10:36:31 1999
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Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:36:27 -0800
Message-ID: <002201bf3856$b9e070a0$12f14ed8@may>
From: "Nancy May" <nancy28@bellsouth.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
References: <383DD772.C8E29499@harti.com> <005f01bf3844$c76ffcc0$82f14ed8@may> <383EC055.ADA06644@sinectis.com.ar>
Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:38:14 -0800
Organization: The May Family
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Your right I copied wrong .sorry! Joe
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios <jdelac@sinectis.com.ar>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !


> Hello all,
>=20
> The right link is:
> http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html
>=20
> Greetings, Juan
>=20
>=20
> Nancy May escribi=F3:
>=20
> > Hi Stefan and all,  H.Johnson,T. Bearden, J. Bedini, and R.Cole come =
up with
> > one a while back. Check it out.   =
http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html
> > Joe
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stefan Hartmann <harti@harti.com>
> > To: Free Energy <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; Newman-L Mailing List
> > <newman-l@emachine.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:42 PM
> > Subject: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just spoke with the German
> > > fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> > > who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> > > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> > > to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> > > permanent magnet motor !
> > > He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> > > and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
> > >
> > > He told me how it works:
> > >
> > > He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he =
had
> > > glued
> > > about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole =
showing
> > > outwards,
> > > e.g. northpole.
> > > (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south =
poles or
> > > all north poles
> > > outwards does not matter...)
> > >
> > > Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special =
iron bar
> > > core put in front of it,
> > > so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air =
gap)!
> > > The iron core has different thickness over its length and is =
several
> > > cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the =
iron
> > > bar already
> > > acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this =
iron
> > > core.
> > > This way the rotor is accelerated.
> > > Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the =
iron
> > > core and then,
> > > where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion =
zone !
> > >
> > > It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle =
so
> > > there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> > > Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important =
along
> > > its way.
> > >
> > > The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped =
after
> > > about 5 to 8 minutes
> > > he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> > > Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated =
by
> > > remanenz B field
> > > or something simular...
> > >
> > > But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> > > Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver =
glued
> > > together
> > > with expoy glue.
> > > He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
> > >
> > > He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> > > without stopping.
> > >
> > > So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> > > It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> > > it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could =
be
> > > this easy !
> > > --
> > >
> > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> > > --
> > > Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> > > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> > > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> > > email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> > > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !
> > >
> > >
>=20
>=20

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF3813.7D2E8CC0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Your right I copied wrong .sorry! Joe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jdelac@sinectis.com.ar">jdelac@sinectis.com.ar</A>&gt;</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>To: &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A>&gt;</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 9:16 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough=20
!</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Hello all,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The right =
link=20
is:<BR>&gt; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html">http://www.nidlink.com/=
~john1/motor.html</A><BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; Greetings, Juan<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nancy May =
escribi=F3:<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; &gt; Hi Stefan and all,&nbsp; H.Johnson,T. Bearden, J. Bedini, =
and=20
R.Cole come up with<BR>&gt; &gt; one a while back. Check it =
out.&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor/.html">http://www.nidlink.com=
/~john1/motor/.html</A><BR>&gt;=20
&gt; Joe<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
From: Stefan Hartmann &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:harti@harti.com">harti@harti.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: =
Free=20
Energy &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:freenrg-l@eskimo.com">freenrg-l@eskimo.com</A>&gt;;=20
Newman-L Mailing List<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:newman-l@emachine.com">newman-l@emachine.com</A>&gt;<BR>&g=
t; &gt;=20
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:42 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: =
Permanent Magnet=20
motor breakthrough !<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I just spoke with the German<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fellow=20
Helmut Goebkes,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; who had claimed&nbsp; on the JLN =
eGroups=20
site<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/">http://www.egroups.com/gro=
up/jlnlabs/</A><BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; to have a 5 to 8 minutes running<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; permanent =
magnet=20
motor !<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; He is a serious engineer, who has studied=20
physics<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; and he sounded very reliable on the =
phone.<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; He told me how it works:<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where =
he=20
had<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; glued<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; about 24 Neodymn magnets =
onto the=20
surface, all with one pole showing<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; outwards,<BR>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
e.g. northpole.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; (He says, the pole configuration does =
not=20
matter, if all south poles or<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; all north poles<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
&gt; outwards does not matter...)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Then he=20
used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
&gt; core put in front of it,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; so the iron core faces =
the rotor=20
magnets with some distance (air gap)!<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; The iron core =
has=20
different thickness over its length and is several<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; cms =
long,=20
so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
bar already<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; acts like normal iron, so the rotor =
magnets are=20
attracted to this iron<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; core.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; This =
way the=20
rotor is accelerated.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Then there is a "zero attraction =
zone"=20
inside the center of the iron<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; core and then,<BR>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone =
!<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; It is very important to have the repulsion =
zone at=20
the right angle so<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; there exists a netto torque onto =
the=20
rotor.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Also the thickness variation of the iron core =
is very=20
important along<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; its way.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped =
after<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; about 5 to 8 minutes<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; he told me... Now he =
has to=20
examine, why it stopped.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Maybe too many eddy current =
losses or=20
the iron core gets saturated by<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; remanenz B =
field<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; or something simular...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; But =
there was a=20
real torque on the shaft, he told me.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Now he wants to =
try=20
different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
together<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; with expoy glue.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; He laso =
wants to=20
try a sychronized 2 rotor version.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
He will=20
soon publish it, when it will all work reliable<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
without=20
stopping.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; So far the first =
impressions from=20
the first phone call with him.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; It sounds pretty good =
and this=20
is the most easy design...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; it had to be this easy, so =
nobody=20
would have ever thought it could be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; this easy =
!<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Best regards, Stefan=20
Hartmann.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hartmann Multimedia=20
Service,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, =
10589=20
Berlin, Germany<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 =
345 00=20
498<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:harti@harti.com">harti@harti.com</A>&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:info@ccard.net">info@ccard.net</A><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <A=20
href=3D"http://ccard.net">http://ccard.net</A> fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB =
!<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF3813.7D2E8CC0--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 12:45:50 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:47:08 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
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Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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To: Ted Gondert <vcrepair@teleweb.net>
CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Chernoybyl reopening
References: <383EB0F0.21D5F983@teleweb.net>
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> 
> What is your opinion that Ukraine is planning on powering up reactor 1
> at Chernoybyl nuclear power plant? 


This is maybe not such a good idea. There is an awful mess.


>
> You claimed that most people haven't seen anyone with radiation poisening 
> and radiation isn't so bad. 


I never said that there is not such a thing. Conventional nuclear 
power plants are more deadly than anyone realizes. Fuel-rods are
under extreme pressures at high pressure. Radioactive gasses have 
to be leaking into the atomosphere. If people only knew the half 
of it these plants would have been banned long ago. These types 
of reactors are only their for one reason and it is not to give 
us cheap electrical power. These plants are manufacturing weapons 
grade material at the expense of the people and the environment.

                
>
> Does that apply to the many who died several years ago when Chernoybyl 
> 'blew up"?


I have said from the begining that these plants are deadly toxic. I
spoke
out about nuclear power plants since 1996.


         -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 15:16:06 1999
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Just to keep this issue in proper focus, the problems that plague
conventional
fission reactors are entirely monetary. There are no technical issues
that cannot
be solved, it is merely a case of the costs involved. And you know who's
most
driven to manage the costs - don't you??

Unfortunately, we tend to allow the utility companies to operate an
active and
profitary monopoly on domestic power generation. They function as
semi-private
corporations, in that their autonomy in the decision-making process is
not really
subject to strict peer-level review for safety matters.

Forget everything that the political arena has brain washed you into
believing,
utility companies pretty much do what they damn well please, with only
minor and
infrequent disruptions from concerned citizen groups, the Public Utility
Comissions,
and even the once politically-powerful NRC.  Decisions that should have
been made
by structural engineers, were over-ruled by the management at each and
every one
of these companies. This is and has been a historical FACT ever since
Day 1 at
the Edison Dynamo facilities. Management loves to win, and the measure
of each
win is only the bottomline.

Follow the MONEY TRAIL...it will lead you to the TRUTH!

The incidents that are all too well documented at Kerr-McGee's Fuel Rod
Div.
are really the tip of the proverbial iceberg!  If you had to guess,
would you
knowingly allow a company to become a major player in something as
dangerous
as manufacturing nuclear reactor rods, when they couldn't even manage to
meet
the relatively minor environmental laws of the 1950's regarding the
mining of
crude oil??

Nuclear power could have been "Inherently Safe" and "Too cheap to
Meter", but
for the fact that greed came into play. You can blame the MBA-morons for
this!

We (Humanity) tend to forget, in our zeal to honor the free enterprise
system, that
allowing the lowest bidder to do things isn't always in our best
interests. There is
also this glaring error that is made each and every day at major
corporations all
over the globe: Allowing management personel, without sufficient
background or
training, to make decisions that should be left to those persons with
scientific and
engineering experience.  Motivated only by greed, these managers will
nominally
decide issues based on the immediate bottomline costs, without regard
for the
future costs of cleaning up after such shortsightedness!  The Harvard
Business
School of Management has been preaching micromanagement as a guiding
light
for close to 200 years in one form or another. I feel it is time to
wrest control of
our Future from these swine and their petty game of egoic politics,
before it really
is too late!

I personally favor decentralized power generation, it can reduce the
political graft
and greed amongst our people by 50%, given that our civilization spends
50% of
it's time and resources chasing after energy.  Free energy really WILL
change us
for the better!  Good luck then, to each and everyone of us, in our
search for this
Holy Grail.

         -Erik



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--------------939D7CCAE557880B49C5163D
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To all interested list members:

I have just released the following post to another list, and am forwarding it to the freenergy list
for information purposes.  I am not attempting to generate a discussion.

Thank You

Regards,

Norm Biss




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [free_energy] Second Prototype finished
   Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:16:22 -0500
   From: Norm Biss <normpems@erie.net>
     To: "free_energy@onelist.com" <free_energy@onelist.com>

To:  All interested list members.

I have finally finished the second prototype motor.  I have not been in any hurry to do this, since
my regular work responsibilities come first.

In designing and building the second Prototype, I have finally been able to produce a motor which
will show beyond a doubt whether Joe Newman's theory is valid.  This motor has two interchangeable
armatures.  One is wound in the conventional manner, and one is wound utilizing Newman's
"technology".  Because of this, I can compare the differences between two motors, and the playing
field is leveled.

In addition, the second prototype is designed as a sealed motor so that Liquid Nitrogen can be
pumped thru the motor, which will reduce resistance in the windings, and also increase the
efficiency of conductivity.

The slots in the Newman version are one-half the number of slots in the conventional version.  In
addition, the wire in the Newman version is 7 gauges smaller than the wire in the conventional
version.

Unlike Mr. Newman, I cannot obtain data from a ten minute, or even a ten hour test.  These tests are
going to consume the better part of a month to conduct, because I have to be able to determine
durability, as well as cumulative effects on all the components.  I need to determine wear and
damage to the brushes and commutator in the comparison tests.  In addition, I have to determine the
decay rate of battery voltage between the two versions.

Mr. Newman declares that his version recharges the batterys.  If this is the case, his version will
run forever.  This is one test that Mr. Newman will not do.  (That is, hook it up to his batterys,
and just let it run unmolested for a couple of weeks).  If, in fact, the motor is still running
after two weeks on the original set of batterys, and the voltage has not appreciably been reduced,
then he may be on to something.  However, I suspect that Mr. Newman has been buying batterys on a
regular basis.  If this is the case, well...............

I have not had much chance to get on the net lately, and I rather doubt I will have much chance in
the near future.  If anyone sends me email, and I don't immediately respond, please do not think
that I am ignoring you.  I am documenting everything, and will publish the results when the tests
are completed.  At that time, I will attempt to answer all questions regarding the tests.

Thank You.

Regards,

Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
11-26-99

normpems@erie.net

--------------939D7CCAE557880B49C5163D
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
To all interested list members:
<p>I have just released the following post to another list, and am forwarding
it to the freenergy list for information purposes.&nbsp; I am not attempting
to generate a discussion.
<p>Thank You
<p>Regards,
<p>Norm Biss
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>-------- Original Message --------
<table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 >
<tr>
<th ALIGN=RIGHT VALIGN=BASELINE NOWRAP>Subject:&nbsp;</th>

<td>[free_energy] Second Prototype finished</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th ALIGN=RIGHT VALIGN=BASELINE NOWRAP>Date:&nbsp;</th>

<td>Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:16:22 -0500</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th ALIGN=RIGHT VALIGN=BASELINE NOWRAP>From:&nbsp;</th>

<td>Norm Biss &lt;normpems@erie.net></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th ALIGN=RIGHT VALIGN=BASELINE NOWRAP>To:&nbsp;</th>

<td>"free_energy@onelist.com" &lt;free_energy@onelist.com></td>
</tr>
</table>

<p>To:&nbsp; All interested list members.
<p>I have finally finished the second prototype motor.&nbsp; I have not
been in any hurry to do this, since my regular work responsibilities come
first.
<p>In designing and building the second Prototype, I have finally been
able to produce a motor which will show beyond a doubt whether Joe Newman's
theory is valid.&nbsp; This motor has two interchangeable armatures.&nbsp;
One is wound in the conventional manner, and one is wound utilizing Newman's
"technology".&nbsp; Because of this, I can compare the differences between
two motors, and the playing field is leveled.
<p>In addition, the second prototype is designed as a sealed motor so that
Liquid Nitrogen can be pumped thru the motor, which will reduce resistance
in the windings, and also increase the efficiency of conductivity.
<p>The slots in the Newman version are one-half the number of slots in
the conventional version.&nbsp; In addition, the wire in the Newman version
is 7 gauges smaller than the wire in the conventional version.
<p>Unlike Mr. Newman, I cannot obtain data from a ten minute, or even a
ten hour test.&nbsp; These tests are going to consume the better part of
a month to conduct, because I have to be able to determine durability,
as well as cumulative effects on all the components.&nbsp; I need to determine
wear and damage to the brushes and commutator in the comparison tests.&nbsp;
In addition, I have to determine the decay rate of battery voltage between
the two versions.
<p>Mr. Newman declares that his version recharges the batterys.&nbsp; If
this is the case, his version will run forever.&nbsp; This is one test
that Mr. Newman will not do.&nbsp; (That is, hook it up to his batterys,
and just let it run unmolested for a couple of weeks).&nbsp; If, in fact,
the motor is still running after two weeks on the original set of batterys,
and the voltage has not appreciably been reduced, then he may be on to
something.&nbsp; However, I suspect that Mr. Newman has been buying batterys
on a regular basis.&nbsp; If this is the case, well...............
<p>I have not had much chance to get on the net lately, and I rather doubt
I will have much chance in the near future.&nbsp; If anyone sends me email,
and I don't immediately respond, please do not think that I am ignoring
you.&nbsp; I am documenting everything, and will publish the results when
the tests are completed.&nbsp; At that time, I will attempt to answer all
questions regarding the tests.
<p>Thank You.
<p>Regards,
<p>Norm Biss
<br>Erie, Pa.
<br>11-26-99
<p><font color="#3333FF">normpems@erie.net</font></html>

--------------939D7CCAE557880B49C5163D--

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 18:48:50 1999
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Engine Ping
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:48:42 +1100
Organization: Improving
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References: <3837FE88.5164@cyberportal.net> <mdmh3sohenr1834ven679orbbhn4o07vl5@4ax.com> <38394F8F.2A8D@cyberportal.net> <hu3k3ssftdlct4ikk2b7abhqqofmtm36pc@4ax.com> <383A8891.6792@cyberportal.net> <7klm3s88c3e3o34e79evuv47tq58kok0kh@4ax.com> <383E7F5D.6B

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On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:38:53 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote:

>Robin,
>
>You are always going completely to the books.
>What if all of the energy is not coming from
>the alpha particles... maybe they are a doorway
>to energy from the ambiant? What I am saying is
>that you need to balance theory with actual hardware.
[snip]
Bruce, it is true that I always go to the books to look for the results of
experiments that others have done before me, to save me the time and trouble
of doing the experiments myself. I also base my posts on my "mental model"
of how I expect things to work. Whether or not others find my posts
convincing, is up to them. If they have any doubt, then they should by all
means do the experiment, and find out for themselves. After all, my model is
just a model, and is indeed based on standard theory, and leaves little or
no room for anomalous phenomena. 
It does however serve as a base against which people can compare the results
they get. If anyone gets a result that is contrary to my predictions, I'll 
definitely sit up and take notice. And the better they document those
results, the more notice I will take.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Nov 26 22:27:35 1999
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From: MKSBoysal@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.38938bbd.2570d3cc@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 01:27:24 EST
Subject: Re: Mechanical energy machine ?
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
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<< Hi Stefan,
Have you seen this page?  <A 
HREF="http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418/HowItWorks.html"
>How The Invention Works</A> its very amusing, yet I would say very smart, 
guy to think all the contraptions.

Its seems can work, (in my perception) one probably easy convert a bicycle to 
make this unusual contraption, :-).

Mehmet.>>


>  Has anybody understood how this works ?
>  
>  http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418/index.html
>  
>  Regards, Stefan

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 06:56:44 1999
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Message-ID: <383FF179.C8D@cyberportal.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:58:01 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Perreault" <nuenergy@cyberportal.net>
Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net
Organization: Nu Energy Horizons
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CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com
Subject: Re: Radiation fears
References: <383EB0F0.21D5F983@teleweb.net> <383EF1CC.56E2@cyberportal.net> <383F129C.46DBC@teleweb.net>
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> 
> 
> I'm not expert on nuclear radiation but why are the radioactive devices
> you propose for energy so much safer? 


My reactions do not produce deadly radio toxins like strontium-90 etc...


>
> Is it just a matter of amount of radiation? 


No... it is a matter of how the reaction is done.
Nuclear reactors split the U-235 atom into hundreds
of fragments. My method is a "kinder, gentler" type
of reation. It is more controlled.


>
> Women who painted watches, clocks with radium paint had
> high incidence of mouth cancer from what I read several 
> years ago.


Yes... of course! They were eating the stuff!


> 
> PS. Have you ever seen the claims by Dennis Lee that "Brown's Gas", a
> stochiometric mix of hydrogen and oxygen, electrolysed from water can
> burn and neutralize radioactive substances? See his webpage:
> http://www.ucsofa.com for more information. Dennis Lee is also promoting
> "Free Electricity" macines that allegedly produce 15kW with no external
> power input required, just "run, run, run, run, run, run...."


It may mask it but it won't neutralize it. The Patterson cell is another 
myth. The Patterson cell traps the radon and thoron gas and removes it 
from the heavy metals. It has not been neutralized... it is only
depleted 
from it's source.


        -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 07:15:28 1999
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MARTIN WOLFF wrote:
> 
> Bruce, was it by accident or design that the lead-iron detector looks
> exactly like a geiger-muller tube - even down to the oxide coatings.


This just happened to be the configuration of the design.
My virtual lab partner when testing out my Perreault-valve
discovered the glow effect and the term "glow-regulator"
was born. He also discovered that a weird noise was being
generated by his experimental set-up. Ossie later found that
using lead-iron in a spark-gap lit up a lamp brightly in a
circuit that was fed by high-voltage at high frequency. I later
incorporated this metal combination into the "glow-regulator"
design and now into the Perreault-valve.


> 
> You have always said that a radiation source makes it work 
> better - this might be why.


The detector may very well be responding to the cosmic-rays...
I do not know for sure... this is an educated guess at this
point... more experiments will have to be done.


           -BAP

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 07:37:32 1999
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Re: Improved Meyer Cell.


Ok... I admit that I have a more inflated ego than most
folks... perhaps this is what gives me strength to move
forward when others just give up.

Why do people over-look the obvious? The Meyer cell is
an ultra-sonic humidifier combined with electrolysis.
This makes his cell very efficient.

I have made an improvement by using parts from a store
bought ultra-sonic humidifer! Add a cylinder within a
cylinder type electrolyzer and you are ready to effect
efficient hydrogen/oxygen gas seperation.

This is what I think that the "Joe-Cell" is doing!
The mechanical vibration from the engine is supplying
the vibration for his cell to output ultra-sonics.
This was the first impression that I got when I first
saw the white mist coming from one of his cells. It is
the same exact appearance that the ultrasonic humidifer
produces. Why hasn't anyone else noticed this? I have
sat back for months now just waiting for someone to make
mention of this... no one has! So... now I come forward.

So much for the "hydrino" theory. I don't mean to "belittle"
anyone here. Just reporting how I see it from my point of view.


Just remember who come forward with this... please... no
questions... my improvement works... put this cell together...
you do the numbers and figures... 


           -Bruce A. Perreault
            November 20th, 1999.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 07:48:01 1999
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Re: Improved Meyer Cell.


Ok... I admit that I have a more inflated ego than most
folks... perhaps this is what gives me strength to move
forward when others just give up.

Why do people over-look the obvious? The Meyer cell is
an ultra-sonic humidifier combined with electrolysis.
This makes his cell very efficient.

I have made an improvement by using parts from a store
bought ultra-sonic humidifer! Add a cylinder within a
cylinder type electrolyzer and you are ready to effect
efficient hydrogen/oxygen gas seperation.

This is what I think that the "Joe-Cell" is doing!
The mechanical vibration from the engine is supplying
the vibration for his cell to output ultra-sonics.
This was the first impression that I got when I first
saw the white mist coming from one of his cells. It is
the same exact appearance that the ultrasonic humidifer
produces. Why hasn't anyone else noticed this? I have
sat back for months now just waiting for someone to make
mention of this... no one has! So... now I come forward.

So much for the "hydrino" theory. I don't mean to "belittle"
anyone here. Just reporting how I see it from my point of view.


Just remember who come forward with this... please... no
questions... my improvement works... put this cell together...
you do the numbers and figures... 


           -Bruce A. Perreault
            November 27th, 1999

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 09:16:20 1999
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> 
> Why do you hate my hydrinos? 


How can I hate something that in in my 
humble opinion does not exsist?


>
> The joe cell has no physical input. 


Oh contrare... it requires a small milliwatt direct current.


>
> The water can electrolyse and shake itself to hell,


Yes... it does this because it is exposed to the ultrasound
that the cell COULD be generating.

In my improved Meyer type set-up the combination of ultrasound
and electrolysis requires only a small electrolyzing current.
I have no idea wait the ultrasonic wattage is. It could be that
the ultrasound takes over where there is less electrical current.
It would be good if someone on one of the lists has the time to
find out just how efficient this system is.

It would be an easy thing to confirm if the Joe-Cell is working
on this principle or not. A simple ultrasonic translator to hear
ultrasound can be obained from "Information Unlimited" in 
Amherst, NH.

Please... don't shoot the messenger again... he is still recovering
from when he was shoot last week. Shoot him in the wrong place and
he will die... :(


          -Bruce A. Perreault

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 14:30:11 1999
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From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Message-ID: <0.c7969a25.2571b565@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:29:57 EST
Subject: ARDA Mk3 : A GREAT STEP, "The Power On Board" test...
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Dear All,

Today I have done an important experiment with the ARDA Mk3 (The 
Biefeld-Brown Effect Wing) :

The "Power On Board" test (POB test) is a great step for the ARDA Project. 
The purpose of this test is to prove that a Biefeld-Brown effect flying wing 
is able to generate its OWN THRUST with its power supply "on board" and 
disconnected from the ground. 
In a previous test with the 1/4 scale mockup (see "The closed loop run" 
test), I have demonstrated that a light ARDA wing is able to propel itself, 
but in this case the HV generator was outside and someone could have said 
that the observed thrust was generated by the influence of the surrounding 
wiring setup (the frame) and some pure electrostatic forces due to HV 
generator placed outside the wing.

So, to prove that the thrust is not generated by the wiring frame around the 
ARDA wing, this test uses a big and heavy ARDA wing ( 3.7 kg ) with its own 
HV power supply "on board".

The "Power On Board" test has been done successfully on November 27th, 1999 ( 
16h00 )...

See the pictures and videos of the ARDA Mk3 EHD wing in action at :

  http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/arda3pob.htm

Tests are not yet finished..stay tuned....

Best Regards
Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com
Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Nov 27 15:54:35 1999
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From: "Harvey Norris" <tesla4@excite.com>
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I have placed a small article suggesting heterodyning as the source for high
frequencies made by combining two 180 phased series resonances in mutual
induction. I have now obtained mirror image currents about the x axis on the
oscilloscope at the high frequency of 31,250 hz., where this was obtained by
induction to a sensor coil.I do not think the mirror image is an illusion as
it seems to correlate with the arcing. At the moment of arcing the circuit
becomes parallel resonant, and the amount of electrons oscillating in the
circuit from the series resonant phase vastly exceeds that drawn from the
tank circuit formed during arcing. Have enclosed an extract. HDN

Magnetic field lines take the path of least reluctance, so what should
happen when they meet head on in opposite directions? They might fly off at
right angles. Taking the sensor coil out about a foot outward from where the
coils meet at midpoint in space is an area of space where the magnetic field
is weaker. And the sensor shows this, by traveling from the pole area to
this weak area by following the imaginary field lines. If we now turn this
coil 90 degrees so that the coil is enclosing these field lines postulated
at 90 degree angle to the actual magnetic field observed, one finds that
this cancelled or double set of 180 phasings appears as a greater voltage
than the normal method of induction effects from geometry give. In other
words no signal should be present, but it gives one in excess to the normal
method!

With this kind of thing going on, a bifilar coil might be effective as a
sensor instead of an ordinary inductor! HDN
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201





________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 07:32:48 1999
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From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" <vramos@ctv.es>
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Subject: RE: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
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> 
> The right link is:
> http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html
> 
> Greetings, Juan


Oh, no, Bedini again............

Vicente.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 07:58:24 1999
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We at last have received some comments from our CD's, one of which is the
spec sheet on the CCFL driver showing more output than input.

For a first blush thrill look at http://www.jkllamps.com/ and go to CCFL
Inverter section, move down to the spec table on input and output.

Rex A.

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 09:14:07 1999
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Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet motor breakthrough !
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Good as any!

> > 
> > The right link is:
> > http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html
> > 
> > Greetings, Juan
> 
> 
> Oh, no, Bedini again............
> 
> Vicente.
> 
> 

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 09:58:50 1999
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From: "Marcelo Puhl" <mark@plug-in.com.br>
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> 
> For a first blush thrill look at http://www.jkllamps.com/ and go to CCFL
> Inverter section, move down to the spec table on input and output.
> 
> Rex A.
> 

They stated "Vrms" in the output of the switchers.  Are they sinusoidal ?


Marcelo Puhl
mark@plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 10:53:44 1999
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There term is quasi-sinusoidal.

Under Applications Information, Document AI-001 they explain the square law
operation and method of measurement with a VTC (vacuum thermocouple), which
removes waveform consideration up to a few megahertz.

They are a very interesting device and are short on parts for sure.

Rex A.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcelo Puhl <mark@plug-in.com.br>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: CCFL Drivers


> >
> > For a first blush thrill look at http://www.jkllamps.com/ and go to CCFL
> > Inverter section, move down to the spec table on input and output.
> >
> > Rex A.
> >
>
> They stated "Vrms" in the output of the switchers.  Are they sinusoidal ?
>
>
> Marcelo Puhl
> mark@plug-in.com.br
> -------------------------------------------
> Get paid to surf the WEB !
> Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
> http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
> -------------------------------------------
>

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 19:20:23 1999
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Marcelo Puhl wrote:
>Rex A. wrote:
>> For a first blush thrill look at http://www.jkllamps.com/ and go to CCFL
>> Inverter section, move down to the spec table on input and output.
>
>They stated "Vrms" in the output of the switchers.  Are they sinusoidal ?

My guess is that the measured voltage is open-circuit, and the
measured current is short-circuit - as these are the values of
interest for driving a gas discharge type of device.  You want
to know if there will be enough voltage to break down the initial
open-circuit, and once the discharge has started you want to
know what current will flow into the now almost short-circuit
load.

After all if the output was greater than input, then with a tiny
bit more engineering no input is required at all - so what is
the point of specifying input requirements when it needn't have
any!

From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Nov 28 20:57:17 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:47:36 +0300
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Dear Sirs,

What about possible serious negative aspect of this design:
two permanent magnets to work in opposite poles superposition should be
demagnetized after some time of operation.

Best regards,

Alexander V. Frolov
----------

Stefan Hartmann wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just spoke with the German
> fellow Helmut Goebkes,
> who had claimed  on the JLN eGroups site
> http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/
> to have a 5 to 8 minutes running
> permanent magnet motor !
> He is a serious engineer, who has studied physics
> and he sounded very reliable on the phone.
>
> He told me how it works:
>
> He uses a about 25 cm diameter Aluminium rotor cylinder, where he had
> glued
> about 24 Neodymn magnets onto the surface, all with one pole showing
> outwards,
> e.g. northpole.
> (He says, the pole configuration does not matter, if all south poles or
> all north poles
> outwards does not matter...)
>
> Then he used ONE stator magnet , also northpole with a special iron bar
> core put in front of it,
> so the iron core faces the rotor magnets with some distance (air gap)!
> The iron core has different thickness over its length and is several
> cms long, so at the farest point away from the stator magnet the iron
> bar already
> acts like normal iron, so the rotor magnets are attracted to this iron
> core.
> This way the rotor is accelerated.
> Then there is a "zero attraction zone" inside the center of the iron
> core and then,
> where the stator magnet is behind the iron core, is the repulsion zone !
>
> It is very important to have the repulsion zone at the right angle so
> there exists a netto torque onto the rotor.
> Also the thickness variation of the iron core is very important along
> its way.
>
> The rotor accelerated up until about 120 rev/min but then stopped after
> about 5 to 8 minutes
> he told me... Now he has to examine, why it stopped.
> Maybe too many eddy current losses or the iron core gets saturated by
> remanenz B field
> or something simular...
>
> But there was a real torque on the shaft, he told me.
> Now he wants to try different shaped iron cores with iron pulver glued
> together
> with expoy glue.
> He laso wants to try a sychronized 2 rotor version.
>
> He will soon publish it, when it will all work reliable
> without stopping.
>
> So far the first impressions from the first phone call with him.
> It sounds pretty good and this is the most easy design...
> it had to be this easy, so nobody would have ever thought it could be
> this easy !
> --
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
> --
> Hartmann Multimedia Service,
> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
> Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
> email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
> http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !



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