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SHOWDOWN
The ELO Mailing List Digest
Issue #001
October 5, 1997


     In this issue:

     Well Done!
     Open All Hours
     Hello & Congratulations!
     Pianos Demolished - what has become of Bill Hunt?
     Tandy & Lynne
     ...and Bev Bevan
     ELO Memories
     Roughed Up (the sound of early ELO)
     Jules reports on 10/5 Bristol show
     New Phil Bates Web site


============================================================
ALL PUBLIC RESPONSES TO ARTICLES ON THIS LIST SHOULD BE
SENT TO THE TALK LIST ADDRESS: elo-list@eskimo.com
============================================================


Subject: Well Done!!
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:49:46 +0100
From: John Kilcline 

Congrats to all involved in getting this new list up & running (not an 
easy task).

Also well done to Steve Greenwood for a very informative FAQ.

Onwards & Upwards!!


                                **********


Subject: Open All Hours
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:16:20 +8
From: Stephen Greenwood

Hi Gang,

Great to see the ELO & Move lists with a new home, thanks to Lynn and 
Joe.

Also a big thanks goes to Euan for keeping the lists going through troubled 
times and the drought. A job well done and deserves a little something from 
Hong Kong for that, (sorry the wifes already taken).


                                **********


Subject: Re: Open All Hours
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:24:22 +0100
From: Jules McNab 

Just to echo what Steve's said

Thanks Euan for all you've done with the lists - ultra reliable, which was a 
blessing from the one we had before.  Good luck in yer new job, mate.

And thanks to Lynn and Joe for all the hard work you've put in, I am sure 
everyone agrees you've done a great job.


                                **********


Subject: Hello & Congratulations!
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:08:11 -0400
From: SERENA TORZ 

Dear Lynn and Joe

Well done for taking over this list and all us nutters. It must have been a
marathon task. Also, thanks Stephen for the FAQ's - see you in Reading!

So far it looks like it will do well and be nicely organised - so long Euan
- hope you'll still contribute.

All the best for the future


                                **********


Subject: Pianos Demolished (?)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 04:23:34 +0000
From: Joe Ramsey

'elo chatters,

Although slightly better known for my rantings on the Move line, I thought 
that I might ask you ELO'ers...

What has become of Bill Hunt? The original fifth Beatle (along with Richard 
Tandy) of the Move and later Electric Light Orchestra. has he ever released 
anything solo? New group?? What???

Also - many, many thanks to Lynn Hoskins for getting this ELO-line together. 
I know for a fact that she has spent many many hours on this thing - all for 
the love of Rock & Roll. Thank you.


                                **********


Subject: Re: Pianos Demolished (?)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:59:08 +0100 (BST)
From: Ed Morris

Hi,

> What has become of Bill Hunt? The original fifth Beatle (along with
> Richard Tandy) of the Move and later Electric Light Orchestra. has he
> ever released anything solo? New group?? What???

Of late he's been involved with Slade II (Slade minus Noddy Holder) and
plays on their debut album...in fact I think I might be correct in saying
that he wrote some of the tracks on that album.


                                **********


Subject: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:04:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Adam John Vogt 

Hello hello,

So according to the ELO FAX, Jeff Lynne's new album is finished, but 
currently shelved? What is the cause of this? Details, please...

Also according to the FAX, ELO was legally a 50-50 split between Lynne 
and Bevan? What about Richard Tandy? Kelly has complained (sued, even) 
about being ripped off, so I hate to think that Tandy donated his 
incredible keyboard abilities for 14 YEARS and he might never have 
benefited financially from it? 

Why should Bevan have gotten so great a cut? He did no writing and 
basically played the same beat all the time, meanwhile Tandy was 
going TO WORK on the keyboards. Just thinking about it gets me a little 
peeved. Hope this dosen't offend any drummers, but one only has to 
listen to the albums to see that ELO was essentially a Lynne/Tandy 
production, with a drummer and sometimes Kelly. Credit (and money) 
where it's due!


                                **********


Subject: Re: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 01:20:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: NYWRITER

What is this fax? I'd love to receive it (and others, if possible.)  Bevan & 
Lynne were in The Move (which evolved into ELO.)  Bevan & Lynne officially
(on paper) were ELO.  Lynne did the creating/composing; Bevan did the press.
Groucutt sued (and relations between Groucutt & Lynne remain less than
cordial.) Tandy, originally a bassist w/ELO, moved to keyboards. Though his
word is integral to the sound, he was paid a salary. He didn't "donate" his
talents, he was paid.  For those more experienced w/the business side of the
the music "business," contracts are everything.


                                **********


Subject: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 02:32:32 -0400
From: SERENA TORZ 

Hey, you?! What do you mean, "sometimes Kelly"? It was "often" Kelly. Mr G
was responsible for arranging all the harmonies, but got no credit. He also
sang Jeff off the stage many a time live, then some lawyer (according to
the Daily Express, 1983), turned round and said that he wasn't even a
member of the band! He had every right to claim his fair share! So should
Richard and the others, IMHO.

By the way, I think the "FAX" is actually the "FAQ" (Frequently Asked
Questions) - if I'm not mistaken.


                                **********


Subject: Re: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 05:35:52 +0000
From: Joe Ramsey

I think that the answer to this question lies with what Bev had to give up
to EVEN start the Electric Light Orchestra. Bear in mind that, at least in
the UK, The Move were an extremely successful band with an ability to
produce charting singles with almost every release.

This means they were making good money.

For Wood, Lynne and Bevan to pull the plug on this successful band to make
way for a VERY risky venture, it took guts, determination and incredible
confidence. Likewise, when Wood left, I'm sure that Bevan played a huge
role in launching the Wood-less Orchestra. I'm quite positive that that is
where the 50/50 split comes in (although a 50/50 split sure doesn't leave
much for the other members, does it?).

I don't understand Richard Tandy's roll in ELO. I agree, I think that he
was a HUGE part of the early ELO (as was Bill Hunt). In fact, I have read
that Tandy was in a very early version of The Move. I have heard that he
played on a lot of the singles, "Blackbery Way" for instance. Is this true?
If so, perhaps he is much more comfortable with a more "backseat role" in
the band (although the money split is a completely different question).

I would imagine the other members of ELO were hired as side players and not
really partners in the venture. As fans, it's kind of hard to grasp this
because we love the band so much. But the original three, Wood, Lynne and
Bevan, really took all the risk and, because of their enormous talent and
forethought, made it pay off.

Joe Ramsey

PS. I'm not a drummer, but I'll tell you - it's tough to diss Bev. At the
end of the Move and for at least the first four ELO albums, for my money,
he was the BEST drummer in rock and roll. Especially on the first album,
that was SO experimental - great, great drums and percussion. I'm not sure
many drummers would have the imagination to make a project like that come
off (they wouldn't!).

Of course, by the disco mid-70's it was everybody's idea that a drummer
should sound like a drum machine (but hey, Bev was good at that, too), so
the challenging percussion went by the wayside.

Ahhhhhh... the heck with it, give Bev his 50%!

PSS. (I know that this is going to be a massively unpopular sentiment
but....) If the ELO had stopped after "El Dorado," they would definitely be
on my top five Rock and Roll bands of all time. And Kelly wouldn't have
been involved in that at all. (...please, no flames)


                                **********


Subject: Re: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:43:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bruce Dumes 

Joe Ramsey wrote:

> I don't understand Richard Tandy's roll in ELO. I agree, I think that he
> was a HUGE part of the early ELO (as was Bill Hunt). In fact, I have
> read that Tandy was in a very early version of The Move. I have heard
> that he played on a lot of the singles, "Blackbery Way" for instance. Is
> this true? 

Richard told me that he played an electronic harpsichord on Blackberry
Way, and also played bass on gigs for them for a little while when Trevor
broke his arm.

He didn't play on "a lot" of the singles, though he was always friendly
with the band, and I'm told Roy still thinks very highly of Richard.


                                **********


Subject: Re: Tandy and Lynne
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 06:01:22 GMT
From: Jon Hinchliffe

Joe Ramsey wrote:

> PSS. (I know that this is going to be a massively unpopular sentiment
> but....) If the ELO had stopped after "El Dorado," they would definitely
> be on my top five Rock and Roll bands of all time. And Kelly wouldn't
> have been involved in that at all. (...please, no flames)

He he. Well I can Sympathise with that. With Exception of Eldorado
which I don't really like much and would place after Face the Music I
like the Albums in order of Release down to Discovery which is when I
ceased liking them completely. Mind you I love Moment of Truth and
since they playing My town again soon think they really should have
done a new album by now. After all it will be the 3rd times they have
played Ipswich since it was released.


                                **********


Subject: ELO memories
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 00:20:18 +0000
From: Lynn Hoskins 

Jon Hinchliffe wrote:

> With Exception of Eldorado which I don't really like much and
> would place after Face the Music I like the Albums in order of
> Release down to Discovery which is when I ceased liking them
> completely.

I never ceased liking ELO completely, but there was a time when Lynne's
writing had become a bit too commercial for my taste (i.e. "New World
Record.")  I remember being kinda mad him for going that route after creating 
what I considered to be an absolute masterpiece in "Eldorado"
followed by the fabulous Richard Tandy keyboard showcase, "Face The
Music."

And then came "Out Of The Blue."  Yeah, critics called it overproduced,
overwrought, overeverything.  And maybe some of it WAS a little over the
top.  However, the first time I heard the Out Of The Blue Suite, it took
my breath away.  Twenty years later, I melt when I hear "Big Wheels." Does 
anyone besides me still get a chill at the beginning of "Standin' In 
The Rain"?

I really like how the Part II band has gotten back to what was always my
favorite thing about ELO...the orchestra!


                                **********


Subject: Re: ELO memories
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 04:25:30 -0400
From: SERENA TORZ 

Lynn,

I'd agree with you there about OOTB - it's the album that got me into ELO
in the first place when I was 13 years old in '78 (a long and complicated
story - see FTM Issue 9 for it in full). Although I haven't played it in a
while, I still think it's great, and of course, very sentimental. Because I
picked up on ELO then, I DO loke all the other records with that sound, and
of course, Kelly in - A New World Record, Face The Music, etc. I'm rather
fond of Time, too - it coming out at a time when ELO were starting to
become unfashionable.

As for the early stuff - with the exception of Eldorado - I still find it
difficult to get into. It's a bit too "rough" for me, although Kuiama and
the piano on From The Sun To The World are both stunning. My least
favourite is definitely The Battle Of Marston Moor - ugh! Got me a mark in
history though - it was the only date I ever remembered!

As for ELO Part II, because they're all round nice guys, and far more
accessible than the original band, I think I like them better. They enjoy
playing live. Jeff used to make no secret of the fact that he was doing us
all a great big favour at gigs.

I'm really looking forward to the UK Tour. My first is Reading, Tuesday
week, then Brentwood and Shepherds Bush. Just the 3, but I can't wait.

Aah well, that's my 2 pennorth-worth out of the way.


                                **********


Subject: Roughed Up!
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:34:22 +0000
From: Joe Ramsey

SERENA TORZ wrote:

> As for the early stuff - with the exception of Eldorado - I still find it
> difficult to get into. It's a bit too "rough" for me, although Kuiama and
> the piano on From The Sun To The World are both stunning.

I think that it was the roughness that I liked. That was probably The Move
sound still shining through. It probably didn't help much that it was Roy
Wood playing a lot of the clasical instruments - particularly the sawing
cellos - that gave it that, ummm... rock and roll (?) edge. Maybe.

One only has to compare ELO's "Do Ya" to The Move's to hear how the group
later shied away from the "rough sound" (yet, ironically removed the most
beautiful part of the song, the middle eight).

For me, ELO II was their masterpiece. The perfect blend for what (at least
I thought) they had set out to do in the first place. Still had The Move's
edge, the experimental creativity of the first album, willingness to
stretch songs to their lengthy limits - and hadn't yet sold out to the
"Commercial Gods." (And "On The Third Day" was pretty damned good, too)


                                **********


Subject: Bristol
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 00:50:44 +0100
From: Jules McNab 

Hey all,

Bear with me, it's late (yeah, I know I always give that excuse) but I just 
stepped in the door from Bristol gig, the first of the UK tour, and I had to 
send this out!

I remember now, why I love this band so much.  Who else is there in the world 
that could have me with tears drippin down my face during one song, when it's 
around the 40th gig I've done in the last four years. They're special, but I 
know you all already know that.

They played with the layout on stage as well as the play list - Bev was in 
Eric's place, and Eric and Lou were next to each other - makes it much more 
balanced.

The play list went something like this, although I can't swear by it because 
I got very wrapped up in the atmosphere!

Fire on High
Evil Woman
Showdown
Honest Men (YAY!)
Rock n Roll is King
Standing in the Rain
Mr Blue Sky
Love or Money
Sweet Talkin Woman
Ma Ma Ma Belle
Don't Wanna
Rockaria!

Interval

Because (very new, triple harmony song with Kelly Eric n Phil)
All Fall Down (with bongos!)
Livin' Thing
Midnight Blue (wobbly chin from Jules...)
Strange Magic
Turn To Stone
Mik's Solo
Clog Dance
Getting to the Point (Jules completely loses it and cries)
Telephone Line
Ain't Necessarily So
Calling America
Twilight
Shine A Little Love (oooh that reminds me of someone!)
Last Train to London)
Diary of Horace Wimp) Medley Duo
Do Ya

Encore
Let There Be Drums
Don't Bring Me Down

The guys were so nervous at doing something that's a real departure from 
the norm for them.  The audience was great - it was about 90% full and by 
the end they were rockin' in the aisles and shrieking!  OK, so I was hoarse 
by the end of it, but I ain't seen them live for 14 months, gimme a break!!

Greg did them immensely proud with an astounding light show, lasers of the 
new "balloon" logo and some really flash :) lights.

Steve and those who want to know:-

There were programmes (superb job, Rob) for a fiver,
four different style t-shirts for 13 quid each
Baseball shirts for 20
Jackets (more like very very thick sweatshirts) for 50 quid

The prices will vary from venue to venue, but that's what they were
tonite!

Oh wow.  They were buzzing after the show, very happy that it's kicked off 
so well.

I'm just so proud of them, I had to share it.

I'll shurrup now, and get some sleep before I go see them again tomorrow!

Hugs to all.


                                **********


Subject: New Phil Bates Web Site...
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 11:15:17 +0100
From: John Kilcline 

Here is the news!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was going to save this till Tuesday, BUT...

As the new tour programme, (out last night in Bristol) gives the address,
I am telling you lot, today!!!! (Sunday)

http://www.philbates.demon.co.uk

Please check it out, sign the guestbook, feedback your comments, we do
value them!!!

I know there are a few areas to be finished, & there will be a little
crossover with the ELO Part II site for a week or two, so please bear with
us!!

There are some German dates for next month, for Phil's solo tour!!!!!!!!



End of Showdown #001
********************

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