[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #363 June 17, 2002 In this issue: * Song Of The Week (week of 6/10): "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" * Three vocalists? * Cheap Trick, Hari-Kari (NOT the Cub's announcer!) and some guy from The Rolling Stones! * Limited Editions and Release Updates * The archives, Jimmy Page, and the Move ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Useful Web addresses: TheMoveOnline: http://www.themoveonline.com Official Roy Wood site: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music Online: http://www.ftmusic.com Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:08:50 -0700 From: Tyler C.Sherman Kevin Kunreuther wrote: >Never heard Cheap Trick's rendition, to my knowledge. Kevin, If you, or anyone else on the list, are curious about the Cheap Trick version of "R & R Tonight", it appears on their "Busted" album. It was not one of their bigger sellers. In fact, it can often be found pretty cheap in used/cut out bins. It's a faithful rendering, a bit heavier than the Wizzard version. Interestingly, they omitted the entire 2nd verse. I guess they got frustrated trying to figure out the words too! Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:07:26 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins If anyone would like to hear a RealAudio sampling of this track, go to Cheap Trick's website at http://www.cheaptrick.com, click on the "Music" icon at the top, and then click on "Discography." What you want is their 1990 release (it's a little hard to read the album titles.) I think it's a damn fine cover! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:27:32 -0700 From: Richard Messum I did as Lynn suggested and went to the Cheap Trick website and listened to the sample of their version, and it's pretty good. But i think it's a truism that a poor singer can be redeemed by a great song, whereas the greatest singer in the world cannot redeem a rotten song. "Rock & roll tonight" is a great song. Ever wonder why Cheap Trick are only ever remembered on "classic rock" radio by one number ("I want you to want me")? (Oh, ok, "Dream police," too, although it's never ever played on the classic rock station i listen to.) Rock on, Richard ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:08:26 -0700 From: Rich Lamphear > Ever wonder why Cheap Trick are only ever remembered on "classic rock" > radio by one number ("I want you to want me")? Maybe because classic rock radio is generally tasteless bilge. IMO Cheap Trick are the greatest post-'60s, pre-punk American rock band. They have a wealth of fantastic songs and are still vital today. Plus they've demonstrated their peerless taste by covering (at least) 4 Move/Roy numbers. They'd have probably had a lot more mainstream success if not for an unfortunate series of poor management decisions, record company indifference and bad business luck, again quite reminiscent of the Move and Roy Wood! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:53:57 -0700 From: Dale G. Leopold I must concur heartily with everything Rich just said about the Trick. I loved 'em when they came out in the 70s (they were, along with Rockpile and Elvis Costello, my favorite contemporary band in college), and they introduced me to the joys of Roy & the Move through their sterling cover of "California Man," which, for the unitiated, also has a nice nod to "Brontosaurus" and even (more subtly) "Hello Susie." I saw them a couple of times in '79-'80, then not again until '96--and they were just as powerful. Robin Zander is one of the most underrated rock singers of all time (I'd say he has a Lennon-quality voice, high praise indeed from me). And of course you can hear him duetting with Roy on the tune "Money is the Route of All Fun" on CT's box set. They just played Richmond last week and I unfortunately had to miss them because my wife was sick--otherwise, I would have been there (with my Move t-shirt for ultra-hipness, natch). Dale in Richmond ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:08:17 -0700 From: Boz Mdcn My favourite track on 'Eddy.' Many thanks to Tyler for unravelling some of the lyrics. For years I heard the line 'I even tuned my guitar in a neighbour's room' just as Tyler has interpreted it but, quite recently, I got to thinking that it might be 'I even tuned my guitar in the ladies' room' The context being that in a fifth-rate gig venue in the middle of nowhere that has no dressing rooms the ladies' room might be the only place to get ready and tune your guitar. However I have to agree with other posters that lyrics aren't that important - it's a great song. Paul ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:08:31 -0700 From: PrimoChuck The conventional belief is that while the other tracks on Introducing Eddy and the Falcons are rave ups of 50's and 60's artists, "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" is more or less Wizzard as they were at the time. However, there was a review I read when this album came out that thought that "Rock & Roll Tonight" was Roy's nod to the Rolling Stones (circa "Honky Tonk Women" and "Jumpin Jack Flash"). Every time I now hear one of these songs, I do think of Rock & Roll Tonight. Trying to prove a point though, I am not entirely convinced of this song being a Rolling Clone as I have not really collected the Rolling Stones records. Does anyone feel the vocals, the guitar work and the song writing are like the Stones? I would like to hear the list members comments. Charlie Long Beach, CA ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:45:32 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey PrimoChuck@aol.com wrote: > The conventional belief is that while the other tracks on Introducing > Eddy and the Falcons are rave ups of 50's and 60's artists, "(We're > Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" is more or less Wizzard as they were at > the time. At the time, I thought that "This Is The Story Of My Love" was more Wizzard as they were at the time. A least as far as singles go. Classic Woody along the lines of "See My Baby Jive" or "Angel Fingers." "Rock & Roll Tonight" sounded less like Wizzard to me as it did solo Roy... "Do The Locomotive" or "Rock Down Low." These tracks have a simpler rhythm section (possibly because Roy's playing drums). Wizzard stuff, when they weren't completely aping a fifties style, was pretty complicated ("Dance Your Rock And Roll" or "Buffalo Station"). Does it sound like the Stones? No. Does it sound like Chuck Berry? Yes, especially the guitar riffs and the storytelling style lyrics. Did the Stones sound like Chuck Berry? Yeah... so maybe there's a little something to it (but I don't hear it - and I love the early Rolling Stones). As much as I'm a fan of this wonderful album, I really missed Bill Hunt (Pianos Demolished). Hunt had a manic style that I have not heard before or since. It would have been wonderful on this track. Funny hearing Roy, Rick Price and Bob Brady trying to out-yell each other. Roy's voice cracks a bit in a spot. Must have been a fun song to record. My favorite tune on Eddy is "Crazy Jeans." I always loved Gene Vincent and it's not often that you hear a song advocating the murder of the band's manager (justifiable homicide?). It's only a matter of time before Don Arden guests on "The Osbournes." So tune in, same bat time, same bat channel. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:49:29 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Here are a couple graphs out of the "Eddy" press reviews that have been posted to this list: "Finally, every band who ever chose to encore their set with a rock'n'roll medley gets the full treatment on 'We're Gonna Rock'n'Roll Tonight'. As with every song on this album it is expertly riddled with classic cliches and plagarised puns." - Roy Carr, NME (1974) "The album's closing number is also worth noting. On first listening 'We're Gonna Rock 'n' Roll Tonight' sounds as if Wizzard is dropping the Falcons persona for the closing number and celebrating 'Good Old Rock 'n' Roll' in much the same spirit as Cat Mother did some years back. But anyone aware of Wood's previous work with the Move or Wizzard will quickly realize that the cliched lyrics, off-key vocals and pedantic, one-note solos are all done purposely, and therefore the song serves as a nifty sendup of all the Seventies glitter bands who feel the need to celebrate Fifties rock but end up helping to bury it." - Alan Niester, Rolling Stone (1974) So, it's a nod to the 50's as seen through the eyes of the 70's? Or...something like that... And then there are the strange liner notes that came with the 1999 Edsel release: "'We're Gonna Rock 'n' Roll Tonight' was a suitably raucous way to finish the album. US power posters Cheap Trick covered the song on their 'Busted' album of 1990. Ironically enough, it's the most 'Move' sounding item, and wouldn't have been out of place on their 'Looking On' long player alongside 'Brontosaurus' and 'When Alice comes Back To The Farm'." - Alan Robinson (1999) Um, which part does he think sounds like 'Brontosaurus' and 'When Alice comes Back To The Farm'? The first 6 seconds??? It sounds nothing like The Move. It sounds like Wizzard. Sheesh. P.S. I've always assumed that's Rick Price trading off lead vocals with Roy. Have I assumed correctly? P.P.S. Who is Cat Mother? ********** Subject: Three vocalists? Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:25:50 -0700 From: Steve Graham I thought there were three lead vocalists on Rock and Roll Tonight...Roy, Rick Price and Bob Brady?? Quite difficult to tell them apart though! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:53:22 -0700 From: Richard Messum Classic rock radio is "tasteless bilge?!" How old is this person? Or, alternatively, how lucky am i to live in a geographical situation where the classic rock station is really rather good? Isn't Cheap Trick's "Live at Budokan" America's answer to "Frampton comes alive?" I'll also have to take issue with the statement that Cheap Trick are/were "pre-punk," as their 1st LP came out in '77 -- the same year as "Never mind the bollocks...." And as long as i'm way off topic anyway, England beat Denmark today, hurrah! Jubilant, Richard ********** Subject: Cheap Trick, Hari-Kari (NOT the Cub's announcer!) and some guy from The Rolling Stones! Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:46:15 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey Cheap Trick's first two albums were really good - I wouldn't call them great because I reserve that description for things like "Message From The Country." Most prefer the first album, but I really like the second one, In Color. Just listened to it the other day and it still sounds good. After those two, however, CT and I had problems. California Man pissed me off because: 1. They basically stole Wizzard's live arrangement of the song - putting the "Brontosaurus" riff in the middle. And... 2. A whole group of US FM radio listeners thought that Cheap Trick had written this bitchen song called "California Man." "No, you dopes... that's Roy Wood!" "Huh... the guy from the Stones?" Another example of Woody not getting his due in the States. A recurring theme. Frustrating. And Live At Budukan... I was ready to commit hari-kari if I heard "I Want You To Want Me" one more time. And no, Richard, it wasn't really the US equivalent to "Frampton Comes Alive" as the Humble Pie's former guitarist sold 100 trillion albums to Cheap Trick's paltry 100 billion (these sales figures NOT approved by the RIAA!). Too bad California Man wasn't on that album. At least Roy could have gotten some good royalty money. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:20:07 -0700 From: Richard Kenworthy BOZ wrote: >but, quite recently, I got to thinking that it might be >'I even tuned my guitar in the ladies' room' I always thought that too! JPJO wrote about Cheap Trick: >California Man pissed me off because: >1. They basically stole Wizzard's live arrangement of the song - >putting the "Brontosaurus" riff in the middle. I can't remember now the Dec 74 set when I saw Wizzard, but I thought that it wasn't until the Sight and Sound in concert that the Brontosaurus riff appeared in the middle of California Man. I remember commenting about this to Dave Donovan back in the summer of 77 and he said that it had been his idea at the time. JPJO also wrote... >At the time, I thought that "This Is The Story Of My Love" was more >Wizzard as they were at the time. A least as far as singles go. >Classic Woody along the lines of "See My Baby Jive" or "Angel >Fingers." I remember when I first heard TITSOML on the radio. I had switched on the radio and this track was half way through. There was no doubt in my mind that this was a killer Wizzard track repeating the hook lines from the 1973 singles. If Warners had delayed the release date of Eddy by another fortnight this would probably have gone top ten rather than a miserable 34 coz we all bought the album. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "(We're Gonna) Rock & Roll Tonight" Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:51:05 -0700 From: Tyler C.Sherman Lynn and all, Who is "Cat Mother"? There was a rowdy, honky tonkish band in the early 70's who called themselves "Cat Mother And The All Night News Boys". They released a couple of albums on Polydor records and then disappeared. This is the group the reviewer is referring to. Whether or not this is relevant to our discussion of "R & R Tonght" would depend on anyone on the list having remembered hearing any of their stuff. I had one of their albums way back then and was not impressed. Hence, since I can't recall what they sounded like I really can't comment. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Limited Editions and Release Updates Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:32:28 -0700 From: Rob Caiger In answer to a question posted to the ELO-Showdown list about the First Light limited edition, this will be of interest to the Move List as well. --- The First Light CD has been an interesting learning experience for EMI. Firstly, EMI's distribution throughout UK, Europe and Japan (where it had its own domestic release) was first class. So good in fact, that the batch reserved for FTM since August last year was mistakenly shipped to EMI's European distribution centre in Belgium.... ahem. To make amends, EMI immediately pressed a further 1,000 for FTM on top of the planned limited edition first pressing of 2,000. In the stores, the 2CD set sold well and importantly for a back catalogue project, sold quickly throughout the European territories - so much so, a second pressing was commissioned. This popularity was unforeseen by EMI's sales team (a separate area from the people that commission the projects). Their job is to estimate how much a back catalogue release will sell for the initial three months, and then project over the first year. Their aim is to press enough to satisfy demand but not over-press so stock isn't sitting in their factories or distribution centres, taking up space. They also want products to move out of the shops quickly so the large chains put in big reorders. To help facilitate that, deals are done with selected chains, either discounting the first ordered batch (£15.99 was the targeted figure) or offering other stock at a discount. In this case, there was confusion with some stores offering the CD at a single CD price (£10-12.99). We believe this low sales price came about when stores received the EMI sales team's press release which was based on an earlier release date that was subsequently cancelled but also incorrectly stated the album was going to be a single CD - and gave the price accordingly. The single CD and lower price was repeated by Amazon in their initial pre-order campaign. No doubt those stores found out the true price on receipt of the monthly statements..... Anyway, with ELO's lack of profile due to the UK tour for November - December being postponed, EMI felt the CD would sell only modestly. The limited edition went into a second pressing - demanded by retail based on good press and trade reviews - and copies now in UK stores range from £16.99 - 19.99. EMI are very pleased and both The Move's Message From The Country and ELO's ELO 2 are being put back to September 2002 so an increased press campaign can be built around each of them - and the pressings will be significantly increased. It's one of the reason's why ELO 2 was gone from a single CD to a double. There's 77 minutes of music of CD 1 and 45 minutes on CD 2, so it'll be worth the extra wait. And Message will be a true worldwide release - in fact, The Move's first CD to be domestically released in the States as well as the UK, Europe and Japan. I'm looking amending the booklets and sleeve notes to take into account each territories differences - I'll let the lists know if this is a goer. Also happening is each release will have it's own website with expanded sleeve notes, more photos and memorabilia, exclusives, competitions and soundfiles, with at least one track exclusive to the website only. There will be a California Man CD EP promo for radio, together with one celebrating Roll Over Beethoven for ELO. I'm trying to arrange an over-pressing exclusively for the fanbase - more on that soon. If we can get a significantly early production date, then I should have finished copies at least 1 and a half months before the official release date. If that occurs, then copies ordered via FTM will be with everyone 2 weeks prior release date. But we shall see. I've only just recovered from a severe back injury and am slowly mailing out the backlog of current orders built up while I couldn't move, let alone walk, so the shop has to get back in shape before I consider putting these on sale. A full timetable of new releases will be published shortly in the new June FTM bulletin, together with exclusive news and details on the ELO remaster. Incidentally, the Idle Race Back To The Story CD was never meant to be a limited edition. It was just unlucky. The first pressing was 2,000 but it never got beyond that due to a major upheaval at EMI at the time (similar to what they are going through now). Unfortunately, most of the team involved on the project, including the promotions and press team, left and the CD was overlooked. No press, no profile and no sales - and no repressing. The box set is coming... Best - Rob ********** Subject: The archives, Jimmy Page, and the Move Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:27:28 -0700 From: Greg Weatherby I was just waffling around the archives ...and it just amazes me what I have, that I have forgotten about. This time it was a video tape from Beat Beat Beat, the German music show (not to be confused with the more widely seen Beat Club), and lo and behold, the first two things on it are the Move doing "Wave The Flag", and "I Can Hear The Grass Grow", both of them totally live, and they are insane...they were an awesome live band, let no one fool you about that...this is the 5 man line up, and they smoke! and in case you're curious as to what else is on there, well, there's (don't laugh, I like these guys) DD,D,B,M, and T doing six songs, live as well; Dave Davies doing "Death Of A Clown"; Cat Stevens, "Granny" and "Mathew and Sons"; the ultimate happy chappies (though you hear they really liked to party), the Trems, 3 songs; the Yardbirds (Jimmy Page version) doing incredible versions of "Shapes of Things", and "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago", this is Page at his peak, he was incredible, thievin' magpie that he was (ever hear Jake Holmes do an original song called "Dazed and Confused", and then wonder how Page and Co claimed song writing credit? ever see the great Eddie Phillips, of the Creation, bow his guitar, and then wonder where Page got the idea? and on)...right, back to the tape, next up the Hollies, 2 songs; and Manfred Mann with "Nitty Gritty", and the wonderful "Semi Detached Suburban Mr James...ermm, Jones, errrm Most Gotta check back in the archives for other video tapes, I know I have more from Beat Beat Beat, over there by the Andy Bown solo albums perhaps, or there, by those Frankie Miller albums, up there by all those Kevin Ayers albums...crikey, I have a lot of KA albums!......oh wait, there they are...back after a bit. End of Useless Information #363 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]