[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #366 June 25, 2002 In this issue: * Topic Of The Week: Another look at "Shazam" * The archives, Jimmy Page, and the Move (cont.) * Charlie Chinn? * The T.V. Show: Tony Visconti & Friends * ELO influences / Classical "firsts" * Arthur Lee * Discography? * New Rundgren DVD features "Open My Eyes" ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Useful Web addresses: TheMoveOnline: http://www.themoveonline.com Official Roy Wood site: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music Online: http://www.ftmusic.com Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Topic Of The Week: Another look at "Shazam" Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:17:16 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Without fail, Song Of The Week tracks from "Shazam" elicit the most discussion on the list. I get the feeling there's more to be said, so I did a quick scan through the list archives and came up with some Shazam-related questions/topics. Care to comment on any of them? For our purposes, we're talking about the original album, not the remastered version with bonus tracks. THE MOVE: "Shazam" (Regal Zonophone SLRZ 1012) - 1970 Side 1: Hello Susie / Beautiful Daughter / Cherry Blossom Clinic Revisited Side 2: Fields Of People / Don't Make My Baby Blue / The Last Thing On My Mind ---- 1) Many fans consider "Shazam" to be the band's tour de force. Agree? Or does that honour go to "Message From The Country"? 2) Was "Hello Suzie" a precursor to Electric Light Orchestra? 3) Hindsight is 20/20, but what if "Shazam" had been The Move's first album release... 4) A long-time list member once remarked that The Move was lacking in originality, and this was most evident on "Shazam." The interview segments? Previously done by the Bonzo Dog Band. Violence on stage? Already done by the Who. Adding the "sitar" sounds? Beatles. Were The Move truly innovators, or just a bit slow to react? 5) Whatever happened to the tracks Roy wrote for "Shazam" that had to be put aside in favor of the cover songs? 6) Did the cover renditions (Side 2) strengthen the album, or weaken it? How so? 7) About the Movements box set liner notes... "a hard album to listen to." Does anyone concur? 8) And then there's the Record collector review by Peter Doggett: "'Shazam' is one of the weirdest albums of it's time, as it flits from the delicious McCartneyisms of 'Beautiful Daughter' to a metallic assault on 'Hello Susie', the Wood confection that the Amen Corner had turned into a teenybop classic. Half the album was covers, while the whole thing seemed to be an excuse for sidelining original vocalist Carl Wayne." Hmmmm... 9) When you run into someone who has never heard The Move, do you instinctively reach for "Shazam" as a way to introduce them to your favorite band? 10) Many feel that Bev's drumming on "Shazam" was the high-point of his career. Perhaps the same could be said of Rick Price's bass playing? Those ought to get everyone started... ;) ********** Subject: Re: Topic Of The Week: Another look at "Shazam" Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:41:53 -0700 From: John DeSilva Movers: Since 'Shazam' is my favorite Move album, I'll go through the questions one by one ... >1) Many fans consider "Shazam" to be the band's tour de force. >Agree? Or does that honour go to "Message From The Country"? I'm not sure I'd use the phrase "tour de force". It's my favorite Move album because it has some of the best guitar and guitar orchestrations (to borrow a phrase from the description of Brian May's guitar on Queen albums) that Roy has ever done, and I'm pretty sure that Carl's vocals have never been better. It's of its time and timeless at the same time - pretty tough to do - the sound and production of the album is fantastic. The production especially is on a par with "The Court of the Crimson King", which I consider to be the best sounding album of the 60s. The first album might be a more apt album for the "tour de force" description, but 'Shazam' is my favorite. >2) Was "Hello Suzie" a precursor to Electric Light Orchestra? I'm not sure where this is coming from ... "Cherry Blossom Clinic" is more a precursor to ELO than "Hello Suzie" to my ears. >3) Hindsight is 20/20, but what if "Shazam" had been The Move's first >album release... ... Then we would have missed out on the fantastic first Move album, which would have been unacceptable ("Zing ..." notwithstanding). I think we needed the context of the first few years of singles, live performances, and that great first album to appreciate what was achieved by all concerned on 'Shazam'. >4) ...Were The Move truly innovators, or just a bit slow to react? That can be said of almost anybody that's post Beatles/Rolling Stones (hell, you could say that of those two as well from a Blues perspective) - I don't think that's a fair criticism. While Tony Secunda was definitely a bandwagon and trend "jumper", I think the music speaks for itself. Few bands have the chops or the gall to mix all these styles and sounds on a single album. Whether that makes the Move innovators or not seems inconsequential now given that here we are 30 years later still raving about their music. It has LASTED - that's what's important. >5) Whatever happened to the tracks Roy wrote for "Shazam" that had to >be put aside in favor of the cover songs? Once Rob does the "First Move - Shazam" remastered triple CD set, we'll know! ;-D >6) Did the cover renditions (Side 2) strengthen the album, or weaken >it? How so? I think the covers strengthen the album because they showcase the incredible voice and emotion of one Charlie Wayne. He does an exceptional job on all the covers, especially "The Last Thing On My Mind". The covers also gave Roy a chance to try new arrangements of songs he knew from different sources - and what a fantastic job he did on those arrangements. >7) About the Movements box set liner notes... "a hard album to listen >to." Does anyone concur? I guess if you like your music stylistically the same from cut 1 to the end of an album, you could say that 'Shazam' is a "hard album to listen to". I don't - if I want easy listening, I'll slap on a Partridge Family album. >8) And then there's the Record collector review by Peter Doggett: Weird, maybe. Exciting, definitely. An excuse for sidelining Carl Wayne ... Huh? As I said before many times, I think Carl's vocals are one of the best things about 'Shazam' - rather than sidelining him, the album showcases him to a certain degree. All the more interesting when you consider the tension in the studio and subsequent departure of Carl - I think Roy the producer did the ultimate balancing act with this album. >9) When you run into someone who has never heard The Move, do you >instinctively reach for "Shazam" as a way to introduce them to your >favorite band? Yes. >10) Many feel that Bev's drumming on "Shazam" was the high-point of >his career. Perhaps the same could be said of Rick Price's bass >playing? I think the cohesiveness of the band throughout 'Shazam' is amazing, considering the fact that Rick Price hadn't been the bassist for all that long before recording commenced. Regarding Bev's drumming - I think he hit a high point from the beginning of his Move days right up until mid-period ELO. His drumming throughout all the Move albums is nothing short of spectacular. And then the guy tours with Black Sabbath on the infamous "Black and Blue" tour with BOC - not bad for a "timekeeper", eh? ;-D JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: The archives, Jimmy Page, and the Move Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:50:09 -0700 From: "Dave Woodier" Greg Wrote >This time it was a video tape from Beat Beat Beat, the German music >show (not to be confused with the more widely seen Beat Club), and lo >and behold, the first two things on it are the Move doing "Wave The >Flag", and "I Can Hear The Grass Grow", both of them totally live The only Beat Beat Beat songs I have heard were Night of fear/Walk Upon The Water/Grass Grow. Greg you have a rarity with Wave the Flag? ********** Subject: Charlie Chinn? Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:42:26 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Joe Ramsey wrote: >Charlie Chinn, played the banjo part at the end of Buffalo >Springfield's "Bluebird." I'm probably barking up the wrong tree but the name Charlie Chinn sounds familiar. Unusual name, at least in these parts, buy isn't that the name of the DJ that Roy stood in for on Radio WM late last year? Same guy - probably not. Same name - now there's spooky. Wrong name - please direct me to the right tree! ********** Subject: Which Chinn? Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:49:33 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Chris wrote: >Unusual name, at least in these parts, buy isn't that the name of the DJ >that Roy stood in for on Radio WM late last year? It's Carl Chinn who has the show on Radio WM - Roy stood in for him on two Sundays last August. Carl Chinn also wrote the Foreword for the book "Brum Rocked!" Now, I don't know for sure that Carl Chinn isn't Charlie Chinn. Carl Wayne has also been known as Charlie Wayne, so maybe the two names (Carl and Charlie) are interchangeable. I really don't know what I'm talking about here, so you should probably disregard this entire last paragraph... ;) ********** Subject: The T.V. Show: Tony Visconti & Friends Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:13:07 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins This may be of interest to anyone on the Move List who would like to see Tony Visconti perform in New York. (Tony was the assistant producer on "Shazam." He wrote the string parts for 'Beautiful Daughter' and played the bass on that song.) "The T.V. Show: Tony Visconti & Friends" Wednesday, June 26 Two shows: 7:30 & 9:30pm Joe's Pub... at the Public Theater 425 Lafayette Street @ Astor Place New York 212.539.8770 Tickets: www.telecharge.com or 212.239.6200 A current-spective and future-spective of the work of legendary producer Tony Visconti. Says Tony: "I'm making a total arse of myself by putting on two shows at Joe's Pub this Wednesday, June 26th. The times are 7:30 and 9:30. But, I will be having lots of fun as the M.C. and the bass player in the band." Along with singers Richard Barone, Kristeen Young and Mark Anthony Thompson (Chocolate Genius), Tony & Friends will be performing songs that Tony has produced and/or has been loosely associated with (that makes thousands to choose from, right?) David Bowie's music will likely be more abundant since he's produced a dozen or so Bowie albums. There will also be T.Rex songs and one from Band On The Run (Tony was the arranger), a song by Hazel O'Connor and a song by the Moody Blues. The other band members are Joe McGinty, Dennis Diken and David Matos. It's a tribute to the artists Tony has produced, and the songs they've written. It's also a chance for him to present the singers he's currently working with in NYC. Tony: "For me, I've missed performing live..." Hope someone on the list can go and let us all know what a great show we didn't get to see. ********** Subject: Re: ELO influences Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:37:40 -0700 From: "David Fatta" Richard Messum wrote: >The Beatles' "Yesterday" -- which included a complete string quartet -- >predates "Good vibrations" by a year, although it can be by no stretch of >the imagination be considered rock 'n' roll. But what about Phil Spector? >I don't know much about him, but wasn't he throwing classical instruments >into his kitchen sink productions (a style he invented, i believe) as far "See My Baby Jive" is the best Phil Spector song that Phil never did! ********** Subject: Classical "firsts" Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:37:59 -0700 From: "Duncan Kimball" "Tyler C.Sherman" wrote: >The idea of using "classical" instruments in rock music goes back as >far 1966 when Brian Wilson was doing his marathon sessions for The >Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations". Errr, I think it goes a little further back than that, Tyler. No offence to you OR Brian, Ty, and agreed, most of the uses of classical instruments up to that time were as "sweeteners" to fill out an arrangement, as you've alluded to, but that wasn't always the case. For a start Spector was already using various classical instruments (e.g. the Sid Sharpe Strings, LA's stalwart session string section for many years) and Brian was already increasingly using unusual instruments since 'Summer Days & Summer Nights' and of course the arrangements on "Pet Sounds" were quite revolutionary -- theremin, banjo, vibes, accordion, horns, harpsichord, Sparklets bottles, etc etc. The relative datings I'm not 100% sure about, but I can't agree with you entirely about Brian being *the* first. "Yesterday", which was absolutely groundbreaking, certainly the first "pop" recording to feature a string quartet as a central part of the arrangement (and anything but "straighforward" IMO) was recorded in June 1965; "Good Vibrations" was begun around February 1966 (there were about six major tracking dates according to Carol Kaye) but it was not finished until sometime in September or October and not released until November I think. "Eleanor Rigby" was cut in April 1966, almost certainly before McCartney could have heard GV. But yes of course GV was the first song to use cellos in such an extraordinary way. But above all you can't discount the importance of Lieber & Stoller -- their string arrangement for Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" (1960) was a real breakthrough, certainly the first soul/R&B recording to prominently feature 'classical' instruments in the arrangement. ********** Subject: Re: Classical "firsts" Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:23:21 -0700 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" "I err, therefore I'm human". Or, in my case "I erp..." ( must be the beer) I guess what I'm trying to say r/e so called classical instruments in rock music is that Brian Wilson was one of the first, if not THE first, to use classical instruments (e.g. the cello on "Good Vibrations") in an uncoventional, innovative manner that heavily infleunced others. Certainly strings, etc, had been used on "pop" records in the "rock & roll" idiom prior to that but in a more or less predictable, formulaic way. In fact, Buddy Holly, in his last few sessions before the plane crash, had ditched his guitar & amp and was flirting with string arrangements. If he had lived and continued in that direction, who knows what might have happened. But the strings on those last sessions were rather conventional and, I contend, continued to be so until around the time of "G.V./Pet Sounds". Anyone who has heard the arorted "Smile" sessions, which actually began during the sessions for "G.V.", and the track known as "Fire" in particular would know that Brian was stretching the limits of what could be done with strings. Of course, I realize my opinion is biased by the fact that I'm a Beach Boys freak. I think we all can agree, though, that Brian had a major impact on Roy's music. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Classical "firsts" Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:46:07 -0700 From: "David Fatta" >Of course, I realize my opinion is biased by the fact that I'm a Beach >Boys freak. I think we all can agree, though, that Brian had a major >impact on Roy's music. Tyler, I couldn't agree more. No matter who did it first, Brian Wilson's use of orchestral instruments was the most important. He gave rock and roll a new texture by using ordinary instruments in an extraordinary way. And he influenced everybody, including Woody. ********** Subject: Arthur Lee Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:31:31 -0700 From: "stephen mulcahy" If anyone is interested-arthur lee and love are touring the u.s.a, as well as the canterbury fayre in england and a canadian show in vancouver. i got my ticket for august 8 in cambridge, mass. a full list of shows can be found at http://www.lovewitharthurlee.com for those who don't know- love did the original (and i have to say, better) version of stephanie knows who on the something else e.p. this was easily one of the greatest american bands of the 60's. i know it's a move list, but i expect that there's some people who like both bands here. ********** Subject: Re: Arthur Lee Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:37:54 -0700 From: Bob Hughes Last time I checked Arthur was doing life in California under the "Three strikes and you're out" law. If he's actually touring again that's fantastic! Cambridge Mass? I may be there. ********** Subject: Re: Arthur Lee Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:42:49 -0700 From: Greg Weatherby stephen mulcahy wrote: >If anyone is interested-arthur lee and love are touring the u.s.a, as >well as the canterbury fayre in england and a canadian show in >vancouver. Totally agree. I bought tix for here in San Francisco for July 23rd. He's playing at Bimbos, for anyone in the Bay Area. I have heard reviews from the shows he's currently doing in the UK and they are raves. ********** Subject: Re: Arthur Lee Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:38:47 -0700 From: John DeSilva Stephen: Thanks for the heads up - I'm also a huge fan, and have purchased tickets for the show in SF, CA (along with Greg Weatherby, evidently). Can't wait to see the latest Love incarnation! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Arthur Lee Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:45:32 -0700 From: "Tommy Granlund" I just want to say that the show in stockholm 21 may with arthur lee and love was nothing short of magic. the concert was made up of perfect performances of circa 20 songs from the first three Love albums with marvellous arrangements very close to the recordings. For his performance in stockholm only the band was augmented with an eight-piece string and brass section which brought some of the songs even more beauty. and lucky me, 29 june i'm going to see Arthur Lee and Love again in Denmark at the Roskilde Festival. which will be the second concert on the current tour where the band will be accompanied by the 8-piece string and brass section. to all of you who bought ticket or are planning to see Arthur Lee and Love. chances are you will here a magical show just like the one in Stockholm. ********** Subject: Re: Arthur Lee Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:23:06 -0700 From: STUDIOZ7 stephen mulcahy writes: >for those who don't know- love did the original (and i have to say, >better) version of stephanie knows who on the something else e.p. I always thought "Stephanie Knows Who" by Love sounded a little like Tom Jones on acid. Love was indeed one of the greatest American bands of the sixties and just as ignored here as the Move. They did have a number of singles and albums on Elektra and they were big around LA and San Francisco. There's a story about how when the Doors signed with Elektra, Jim Morrison went around saying "Man, we could be as big as Love!" Jeff R. Lonto www.studioz-7.com ********** Subject: Discography? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:13:41 -0700 From: marmil (Marc) Does there exist on the net a (relatively) complete discography (or set of discographies) of Move/Roy/Wizzard US and UK singles? I'm having a hell of a time finding them. TIA. ********** Subject: Re: Discography? Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:50:23 +0200 From: marc haines Hello! Not on the internet, but there's a complete list (plus much more) in the 1986 published book "Unexpected Messages - The story of the Electric Light Orchestra" which is still available... All the best, Marc ********** Subject: Re: Discography? Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:37:49 -0700 From: "Ken Latta" There is an album and singles UK discography for Roy at the Official Roy Wood website, but not a US listing. Hope this helps...in part at least. Ken http://www.roywood.co.uk ********** Subject: Re: Discography? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:23:12 -0700 From: Bruce Markow >Does there exist on the net a (relatively) complete discography (or set >of discographies) of Move/Roy/Wizzard US and UK singles? Marc and all, Check out Paul Watkins' encyclopedic "Move Information Station" at http://www.watkins1.freeserve.co.uk/index.html Click "discography" for info on all the usual suspects. You'll find lots of other interesting Roy & Move related stuff at this site, too. ********** Subject: Re: Discography? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:50:42 -0700 From: "Joseph Davolt" The complete UK Move, Roy, and Wizzard singles discog is on Roy's official website, http://www.roywood.co.uk . However, there isn't a comprehensive US singles discog anywhere. I have pooled some sources though and have a rough US singles discog. I will post it here soon for everyone. ********** Subject: New Rundgren DVD features "Open My Eyes" Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:45:54 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins I just stumbled across some DVD/VHS info that may interest the list... Back in March we were discussing the Move's cover version of "Open My Eyes," the classic Nazz tune. (The Move version features some truly electrifying Carl Wayne lead vocals.) Todd Rundgren fans on the list may be interested in knowing that "Open My Eyes" is on "Todd Rundgren: Live In San Francisco" (DVD and VHS) which was just released June 11, 2002. The Move picked a great one to cover! Synopsis: Rock's original Renaissance man brings his vast array of musical styles to the stage in this raucous live concert at Maritime Hall in San Francisco, California. Producer extraordinaire, writer of such hits as "I Saw the Light," "Hello, It's Me" and "Bang the Drum All Day," founder of the band Utopia and general music maverick, Todd Rundgren performs many of his greatest hits and a wealth of new tunes in this video capturing his live stage show. Songs: I Hate My Frickin ISP, Yer Fast, Black and White, Number 1 Lowest Common Denominator, Open My Eyes, Trapped, Love in Action, Bang the Drum All Day, Temporary Insanity, Medley: Mystified/Broke Down and Busted, Buffalo Grass, One World, The Ikon, Hammer in My Heart, World Wide Epiphany. Audio Format: 5.1 DTS, 5.1 Dolby Digital, Stereo Screen Format: Full Frame Region Code: Region 1 End of Useless Information #366 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]