[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #396 October 6, 2002 In this issue: * "Brontosaurus" b/w "Lightning Never Strikes Twice" * "Curly" session * One man's stop gap is another's jewel in the crown * Does Jeff play piano on "Brontosaurus"? (cont.) * Dave Morgan - Something, and other things * "Where Are They Now?" articles * Curly should have been burned... * Poor Curly! * Curley... Not Moe or Larry! * Song Of The Week (week of 9/30): "Lightning Never Strikes Twice" * Lightnin' Strikes... / Move back catalogue * CD Burner's are us! ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Other official websites: The Move: http://www.themoveonline.com Roy Wood: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music (for all ELO & related news): http://www.ftmusic.com TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: "Brontosaurus" b/w "Lightning Never Strikes Twice" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:15:19 -0700 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Kevin & all, While Jeff may not be on "Lightning...", I am reasonably sure that is him playing piano at the end of "Bronto...". Roy has never been much of a piano player, though he is capable of doing what needs to be done on virtually any instrument, as we all know. Here's another thread to the discussion. The "Bronto/Lightning" single followed "Blackberry Way", which is the record that caused Trevor Burton to quit the Move because, according to Bev's liner notes on A&M's "Best of...", he wanted to "get heavy". How ironic that the Move's next single did precisely that! I can just imagine Trevor thinking "Oh sure, NOW they get heavy after I quit...." And here's another obscure Roy appearance that some on the list may not know about. He produced and plays on Darts' album "Dart Attack!". To my knowledge, this was a UK only release and has never appeared on CD. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: "Brontosaurus" b/w "Lightning Never Strikes Twice" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:07:21 -0700 From: kakman1 writes Tyler: >Here's another thread to the discussion. The "Bronto/Lightning" single >followed "Blackberry Way", which is the record that caused Trevor >Burton to quit the Move because, according to Bev's liner notes on A&M's >"Best of...", he wanted to "get heavy". How ironic that the Move's next >single did precisely that! I can just imagine Trevor thinking "Oh sure, >NOW they get heavy after I quit.." Big Whoops there Tyler, the next single that followed "Blackberry Way" was "Curly", a real sugary confection that even made Bev "pocket the money" Bevan's teeth curl. Interesting note: first single to feature Rick Price. This was what the Move were promoting during their short haphazard US Tour; after that jaunt they went back to cabaret. After Carl Wayne quit, The Move went heavy with "Brontosaurus". Shazam was released as a stop gap until Jeff Lynne was fully assimilated into the group. During their final touring bits and live commitments they recorded and released "Looking On", which must have really confused their fans. The music was loud adventurous heavy and very progressive. Trevor would have waited a full year before he heard anything even close to his desires from the Move. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: "Curly" session Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:41:22 -0700 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Whoops received! I forgot about "Curly". But was Trevor possibly involved in that session? It was my least favorite Move record anyway, probably why I forgot about it. But they did get really heavy shortly afterward, didn't they! Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: "Curly" session Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:59:25 -0700 From: kakman1 They were still doing the cabaret after Trevor split (late dec 68 or early jan 69) Rick Price fitting in nicely, coming from a comedy/folk/ cabaret act Sight and Sound. Finally able to do US tour after being aborted when Trveor quit, the only new product they had was the treacly "Curly". Rick performed on that but I believe the b-side, "This Time Tomorrow" was a holdover from 1968, as it was produced by Denny Cordell (It may have featured Trevor on there somewhere or not). The US tour however short and frenetic it was, resembled The Move of old when they were a wild young hungry rock band. They music was top notch and converted a number Americans to this great unknown band from the UK. Much of material on this tour was featured on Shazam. Trevor would have approved. On return from US, management inexplicably put them back on cabaret circuit once again. Carl loved it, Rick Price was used to it already and wasn't complaining, Roy and Bev took the money because both were saving up to get married, and just went along with it for the time.The circumstances for Carl's departure from the Move is highly debatable from this point on as Carl has his story and Bev has his (never heard Roy's take on what happened), so I'll leave that out and allow the gentle reader to check both stories and let 'em decide. The rest is history. ********** Subject: One man's stop gap is another's jewel in the crown Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:41:55 -0700 From: John DeSilva kakman1 wrote: >Shazam was released as a stop gap until Jeff Lynne was fully >assimilated into the group. Kevin: Personally, and given my love for the 'Shazam' album, I would hardly characterize it as a "stop gap" - but if it indeed was a stop gap as you suggest, it has to go down as the greatest stop gap album in history. It far outshines albums like "Magic Bus" by the Who, and "Flowers" by the Stones (as great as those two are and as much as I like them, still not in 'Shazam's league in my opinion). JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Stop gap?? Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:33:44 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Kevin wrote: >After Carl Wayne quit, The Move went heavy with "Brontosaurus". >Shazam was >released as a stop gap until Jeff Lynne was fully >assimilated into the >group. This is like saying ELO's "Out Of The Blue" was released as a "stop gap" until Jeff Lynne could figure out how to dump all the string players. ;) "Shazam" was recorded in 1969 as a planned, full album. Its release was delayed until February 1970. While the band was in the studio laying down tracks for "Shazam" Jeff was very committed to The Idle Race. (As you may recall, when Trevor left The Move in February 1969, Roy asked Jeff if he wanted to join as Trevor's replacement. Jeff turned him down because he had lots of plans for The Idle Race. Producing their second album, for one.) So Rick Price joined The Move. This worked out extremely well for the band - Rick's style blended beautifully with Carl's. Jeff didn't join The Move until after Carl had left - March, 1970. So... how was "Shazam" a "stop gap"? ********** Subject: Re: One man's stop gap is another's jewel in the crown Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:59:32 -0700 From: kakman1 John DeSilva wrote: >Personally, and given my love for the 'Shazam' album, I would hardly >characterize it as a "stop gap" - but if it indeed was a stop gap as >you suggest, it has to go down as the greatest stop gap album in >history. You're absolutely right John, to suggest Shazam, my fave Move album, a mere stop gap is selling it short. Unlike say Flowers or Magic Bus, this was a fully realised album with wonderful conceits and beautiful pop moments. Not a filler anywhere a great musical trip. At the time of it's release, though, being a stop gap was its purpose as Carl had already departed and the album was already completed and Jeff was just joined up, and the only other new product was the "Brontosaurus" single. US listeners unfamilar with the Move's previous musical forays fell in love; UK listeners felt it was an odd uneven release that at best revealed the musical schizophrenia The Move endured since Trevor's departure after Blackberry Way until Carl said adios. Was the Move a heavy band, a pop band, a trippy hippy band, a lounge act or totally clueless trendies? To its credit Shazam is the one album to this day that divides the sheep and the goats among Move fans, and it's seems to be a trans-Atlantic thing for the most part. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: One man's stop gap is another's jewel in the crown Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:45:25 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey kakman1 wrote: >At the time of it's release, though, being a stop gap was its purpose >as Carl had already departed and the album was already completed and >Jeff was just joined up, and the only other new product was the >"Brontosaurus" single. Was the album released in UK and US simulatneously? Obviously the group had been performing songs from Shazam live - both on the US tour and on UK TV (I've heard a television performance where Carl sings "Hello Susie"). My take was that Shazam was recorded well before the US tour and the failure of that probably caused Carl to leave. I can't imagine it being released after the US tour in England, but it certainly would make sense in the US as The Move were hardly a household word and that the tour would promote the release of the album. >US listeners unfamilar with the Move's previous musical forays fell >in love; UK listeners felt it was an odd uneven release that at best >revealed the musical schizophrenia The Move endured since Trevor's >departure after Blackberry Way until Carl said adios. US listeners really had nothing to compare Shazam to. UK fans already KNEW what The Move sounded like and, to that point, it sure wasn't "Hello Susie." But The MOVE have ALWAYS been schizophrenic as two albums have never sounded even remotely alike. You want schizophrenia? How about "Zing Went The Strings Of My Heart" or "Weekend" on the same album as "The Girl Outside" or "Mist On A Monday Morning?" Sounds like Dave Edmunds meets ELO (hey, and that wouldn't happen for another 15 years or so!). And Jeff Lynne's contributions to "Looking On" are SO different from the rest of that album. Jeff's songs to me sound more like what would later appear on ELO II... but not really so much on the first album. Weird, that. But ultimately, wonderfully schizophrenic. In fact, probably the closest thing to a cohesive album The Move ever made was Message From The Country. But even then they had to throw in the *kooky* "Ben Crawley," "Don't Mess Me UP," & "My Marge." The album possibly would have been more cohesive as envisioned by the UA compiler of "Split Ends"... replacing 3 aformentioned tunes with the later singles, "Chinatown," "Down On The Bay." "Tonight," Do Ya" & "California Man." (but exorcising the three weird ones really loses a lot of the charm of the album) And I agree with Desilva (again.. darn!), that Shazam is in another, higher league than Flowers or Magic Bus. Now, if he had said "Between The Buttons," "The Who Sell Out" or The Kinks "Village Green Preservation Society," he may have had an argument. 10/4 (say it like Joe Friday!) ********** Subject: Re: One man's stop gap is another's jewel in the crown Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:09:22 -0700 From: John DeSilva Kevin wrote: > At the time of it's release, though, being a stop gap was its purpose > as Carl had already departed and the album was already completed and > Jeff was just joined up, and the only other new product was the > "Brontosaurus" single. I still believe that 'Shazam' was presented to the record buying public as the latest example of the best that the Move had to offer. It was released in the US in Feb. 1970, and while the band and Carl may have known that he was leaving, he didn't officially depart until March 1970. Why it was not released in 1969 I don't know - but I still maintain that at least Roy must have been proud to release 'Shazam' as the Move's latest masterpiece. and then Joe wrote: > And I agree with Desilva (again.. darn!), that Shazam is in another, > higher league than Flowers or Magic Bus. Yes, painful, isn't it? ;-D Both those albums I mentioned are the definition of what I'd call "stop gap" - compiled from previously released sources to have something to keep one's name in the marketplace. As opposed to greatest hits albums, which are typically the last albums delivered at the end of a recording contract. > Now, if he had said "Between The Buttons," "The Who Sell Out" or The > Kinks "Village Green Preservation Society," he may have had an argument. No argument here with those masterpieces - I would go so far as to say that the Kinks never released a stop gap album in their long history (although the various record labels have released almost as many "Greatest Hits' packages on them as Elvis!!!) JD (aka Bill Gannon) San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Does Jeff play piano on "Brontosaurus"? Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:34:57 -0700 From: Bob Hughes kakman1@juno.com wrote: >You'd think it was Jeff on piano, but Roy was capable of pounding the >keys pretty hard himself and doing a fair job of boogie woogie, no Ian >Stewart at all, mind you, but passable. The earliest piano playing I can recall from Roy was on Mustard and wasn't anything up to "boogie woogie". Jeff has a very distinctive piano (and guitar) sound. And that's Jeff. ********** Subject: Dave Morgan - Something, and other things Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:59:17 -0700 From: BigLarry26 Toshiki Komeda wrote: >Have any other listmembers noticed that Westside's Movements box set >credited This Time Tomorrow to Roy Wood? I noticed that statement as my >friend wrote about it on his website. I believed it is a silly >mistake and that song should be credited to Dave. While the Movements set has its good points, an inaccurate songwriter credit is a big drawback. As a songwriter myself, I would want to have my name attached to my works. Even more frustrating, when one realises that a couple phone calls could probably clear up the facts. A couple other offenders: "The Best of Roy Wood - Through The Years" (EMI Records) Credits Roy with writing Carlsberg Special, Bend Over Beethoven, and Down On The Bay (didn't Jeff write this one?) "The Best Of & The Rest Of Roy Wood & Wizzard" (Action Replay Records) states below the song list "composed by Roy Wood". This implies all songs are written by Roy. Yet we know that I Can't Help My Feelings, Marathon Man, and Dream of Unwin were written by other members of Wizzard. This gets under my skin for two reasons: 1) The reason Roy put songs written by other Wizzard members on the B-sides of singles was that they could make some extra money from songwriting royalties. Because the B-side also earns money for every copy sold. For example, if Christmas Everyday was a million-seller (I don't know if it was), the B-side earns money as selling the same number of units. 2) The big question: if a record company mis-credits a songwriter, does the correct songwriter earn his due royalties??? Hugh McDowell wrote Bend Over Beethoven. If it's miscredited to Roy, how do we know that the publishing company (which issues the royalty check) has good information to work with? Opinions? Larry Harris Dallas, Texas ********** Subject: "Where Are They Now?" articles Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:44:09 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins After posting that Rick Price "Where Are They Now?" Birmingham Evening Mail article, I got some requests to re-post some of the other "Where Are They Now?" pieces that we've seen here on the Move List. Off the top of my head I remember one about Carl and one about Bev, and I'd be happy to share those with the list again. They were both done in 2000 so they're a little out-of-date, but that's okay. I'll see if I can find any others. Yeah, they do make for interesting reading! ********** Subject: Curly should have been burned... Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:10:45 -0700 From: "Andrew Footman" Kevin says: >Big Whoops there Tyler, the next single that followed "Blackberry >Way" was "Curly", a real sugary confection that even made Bev "pocket >the money" Bevan's teeth curl. Interesting note: first single to >feature Rick Price. I wrote some time back that curly should have been burned. Chorus is corny and it lacks the magic and charm of the best Move singles. Roy gave away two great songs in the same year (1969) 'Caroline' recorded by the casuals and 'Dance round the maypole', recorded by Acid Gallery. They blow 'Curly' away!!!!! I like 'Lightning' great song'. Rick was also wrote the 'Wizzard 'B'side 'You got the jump on me' Now that is piano playing!!!!!!! Checkout the outtro to it. ********** Subject: Poor Curly! Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:21:58 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Andrew Footman wrote: >I wrote some time back that curly should have been burned. You sure don't like Curly, do you Andy? ;) I think it has a certain charm. It's not one of my all-time favorite Move tracks, but ever since I heard the story about how some people thought it was named after Carl's pet pig (named "Curly") I liked it more. It was a weird choice for a single, but it was a record company decision, so what can you do? (Roy told Goldmine years back that he always wished they'd released "Beautiful Daughter" as a single instead.) The flute arrangement is really quite complex, and the "She Loves You" ending is amazing. I guess it's one of those songs that, had it been released at another time, might have done a lot better on the charts. The first time I heard it, I didn't like it. And then found myself humming it later that afternoon. I guess I liked it more than I realized... ********** Subject: Curley... Not Moe or Larry! Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:07:27 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey Andrew Footman wrote: > I wrote some time back that curly should have been burned. Chorus is > corny and it lacks the magic and charm of the best Move singles. Andy... I DISAGREE!!! C'mon, you gotta put it into context of the time... I'm hearing a lot of Beatles ("Fool On The Hill" and Curley's searching every inch of Liverpool for Pete's sake), a little Monkees (very popular then) and even some Ruby Tuesday courtesy of Roy's very nice recorder playing. Gorgeous middle eight with Roy singing and fabulous harmonies; are those cellos in the background? These are things us Move fans take for granted that other groups of this era could NEVER do. All wrapped up nicely in a story of betrayal and infidelity. All the song lacks is a murder like in "Ball Park Incident" or "Crazy Jeans" and... voila! It's a heavenly pop hit (If anybody wants it). Seriously, the lyrics may be a bit corny by today's standards (hey, Roy's no M&M!), but the guitar work, vocals and instruments are fantastic. I give it a solid "8" PS. That HAS to be Bill Hunt, probably spliced in at the end of the "You Got The Jump On Me" track on piano. Rarely mentioned on this list and only whispered about on the ELO chattie, I think Hunt was The Move/ELO/Wizzard secret weapon. I remember early live reviews of Wizzard where they would talk about Hunt destroying his piano halfway through the set and then spending the rest of the evening doing dangerous gymnastics in the stage area. Now THAT's showmanship! PSS. I think there's a bit of similarity of style between "Curley" and the later Move single, "Tonight." ********** Subject: Re: Curley... Not Moe or Larry! Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:40:27 -0700 From: kakman1 Joe: >Gorgeous middle eight with Roy singing and fabulous harmonies; are those >cellos in the background? These are things us Move fans take for granted >that other groups of this era could NEVER do. Sounds like cellos don't it, but this time it is a mellotron like on Blackberry Way. Isn't funny how the Move jumped back and forth between using a string section and a mellotron? For a Move song, Curly is annoying in a cloying way (too eager to please, too poppy) but I still give it a spin every once in a while. Even the Beatles came up with some corkers a la McCartney i.e. Your Mother Should Know (keep your knives in their sheaths people, it's not like I attempted to shoot down Hey Jude or Lady Madonna or Ob La Di Ob La Da). Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Lightnin' Strikes... / Move back catalogue Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:09:28 -0700 From: Supertzar Always marvelled at this gem, surprised to see that some people don't rate it. It has always been a track that the London 60's scene has picked up on, with underground bands Bronco Bullfrog and Supertzar all including it their sets in recent years. It's a good rocker with a cracking riff, offset by some whimsical harmonies and arrangements that just give it a psychedelic edge. I first heard it when my Uncle gave me his copy of Brontosaurus years ago, it was clearly the superior cut from it's lumbering A side that is far too self-conscious a record. So thanks to Mr. Price for that one and also it still features Carl, which makes it a proper Move track in my book! Also guys, is it true The Move back catalogue is being re issued? Does anyone know who's doing this and when? Cheers, JR ********** Subject: Re: Lightnin' Strikes... / Move back catalogue Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:40:02 -0700 From: John DeSilva Supertzar wrote: >I first heard it when my Uncle gave me his copy of Brontosaurus years >ago, it was clearly the superior cut from it's lumbering A side that >is far too self-conscious a record. So thanks to Mr. Price for that >one and also it still features Carl, which makes it a proper Move >track in my book! JR: I too am a big fan of "Lightning Never Strikes Twice", but I'm also a huge fan of the A side "Brontosaurus". I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "self-conscious a record" - all I know is that it's the best of the Move's heavy rockers. It influenced countless numbers of power pop and hard rock bands over the years, and it has a special place in my heart as the absolutely first Move song I ever heard back in my misspent youth! >Also guys, is it true The Move back catalogue is being re issued? Does >anyone know who's doing this and when? Check out the official Move website (http://www.themoveonline.com) for details on the Move catalog revamp during 2003. JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: CD Burner's are us! Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:35:12 -0700 From: "Drew Jacobs" Put me on the list for CD Burners! I can help! By the way Lynn, I told you I've never had a good experience with Midnight Records! Drew Jacobs Latham, NY End of Useless Information #396 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. 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