[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #398 October 8, 2002 In this issue: * Stop gap?? * Curly / Green Grass Windows / Ace Kefford * Song Of The Week (week of 10/7): "Goin' Back" * In a pig's eye wearing green sunglasses... and saying "ELO!" to Mongrel * Driving the kids through the crowded window * Rick Price - Sound clips (cont.) * Green glass children * Over The Top With Green Glass Windows! * Trevor's "Blue Moons" * "The BBC Sessions" * Mongrel sessions before Wizzard / the green glass window choir / too much sibilance * Piece Of My Heart ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Other official websites: The Move: http://www.themoveonline.com Roy Wood: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music (for all ELO & related news): http://www.ftmusic.com TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Stop gap?? Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:30:57 -0700 From: "Dr. Bob Coulter" I think there are two reasons for an album being a stop gap. One is an issue of low quantity of good material. A band might not have enough high quality songs recorded, and so it releases an album of sub-par material in order not to slip out of the public's consciousness until the band can get back in the studio. People who find the issue of "Shazam" being called a stop gap album offensive are probably considering only the above definition. And on the surface, there is some evidence that the album is a stop gap for this reason. (If there was not, then I don't think anyone would be offended, but would instead instantly dismiss the notion.) There is only one new Roy Wood composition on the album. The structure of the album is a bit odd: three songs written by Roy on one side totalling 15 minutes, three cover versions on the other totalling 25 minutes. The length of most of the songs could suggest padding. There are jokey bits between songs and during "Fields Of People". But making that argument ignores the high quality of the album. Bev has arguably never drummed better, Carl has arguably never sung better, Roy is in top form on guitar and sitar, and Rick proves himself more than a capable substitute on bass. There is a clarity to the production (which is missing on some of Roy's later albums) which suggests that a lot of care was put into the recording. It's a very good album for all its idiosyncrasies. But the other type of stop gap album certainly does apply to "Shazam": where the band line-up has changed and the new line-up has not had a chance to record enough material to release an album, so material by the former line-up is released in the interim. Carl Wayne had left The Move by the time "Shazam" was released. He was at the time essentially the co-leader of the band with Roy, so his loss was especially noticeable. And "Shazam" was certainly not an example of a band member being marginalized on the recording in anticipation of his departure. Jeff may or may not have officially joined The Move prior to the release of "Shazam", but he did play piano on "Brontosaurus" while still officially in The Idle Race. (The production credit on the "Brontosaurus" single is given solely to Roy while there is no such distinction made on the "Looking On" album.) "Shazam" was certainly an album of high quality, but by the time it was released, The Move had rapidly evolved to a point where "Shazam" was no longer representative of the band's sound or style. It showcased the recent past, not the radical new present, and for this reason it can be considered a stop gap album. Bob Coulter, Bobcaygeon, Ont. ********** Subject: Curly / Green Grass Windows / Ace Kefford Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:36:06 -0700 From: Mike Griffiths Curly is great. I've always thought it was a pop gem. When I first heard it back in about 1972, I was immediately struck by it and I was thrilled to get my hands on the different mix, which appeared on the Movements box set. The only down side is that the tune doesn't hold up to repeated listenings as well as say Blackberry Way or Flowers In The Rain. But hey, if you want to pick on a Move recording, how about Zing Went The Strings Of My Heart, during which Bev never actually does manage to sing IN tune! Speaking of pop gems, what about the vastly under appreciated solo single of Roy's Green Grass Windows? For starters, Roy's use of children's voices is at least equal to what he achieved on I Wish It Could Be Xmas Everyday. I think I remember reading that Roy used real kids on Xmas, but I wonder about Windows. Is it kids or speeded up and over dubbed Roy, does anybody know? It sure sounds like real kids to me. The song itself is one of Roy's MOST pop offerings, and the key changes near the end are absolutely brilliant! If the single had been on EMI and properly promoted - who knows? Anyway, it is one of my all-time favourites, ranking very high on my personal hit parade. I recently got a hold of a Move compilation videotape and was totally blown away by Ace Kefford's performance. Carl Wayne was (and I'm sure still is) an excellent front man, with some very cool moves (no pun), but Ace had a truly classic (and very mod) stage act - beating George Young of the Easybeats and rivalling the late (and great) Steve Marriott! ********** Subject: Song Of The Week: "Goin' Back" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:53:42 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Song Of The Week: October 7, 2002 The Move "Goin' Back" from "The BBC Sessions" - recorded November 6, 1968 Possible discussion topics: Vocals Lyrics Instrumentation Arrangement Production Live performance Original vs. cover Strong/weak points *********************** "Goin' Back" Written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin I think I'm goin' back To the things I learned so well in my youth I think I'm returning to Those days when I was young enough to know the truth Now there are no games To only pass the time No more electric trains No more trees to climb But thinking young and growing older is no sin And I can play the game of life to win I can recall a time When I wasn't ashamed to reach out to a friend Now I think I've got A lot more than just my toys to lend Now there's more to do Than watch my sailboat glide But every day can be A magic carpet ride A little bit of courage is all we lack So catch me if you can, I'm goin' back La la la la la la la La la la la la la la Now there's more to do Than watch my sailboat glide But every day can be A magic carpet ride A little bit of courage is all we lack So catch me if you can, I'm goin' back ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Goin' Back" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:50:05 -0700 From: Richard Messum The Move in "wistful" mode, which certainly didn't happen very often. The most immediately striking thing about their version seems to me to be the fabulous, soaring harmony singing. The Byrds' version (which is the one the majority of us probably heard first) has that, too, of course, and the electric 12-string makes an appearance in both, but i have just listened to the two back-to-back, and the resemblance ends there. The Byrds' is much "sweeter," much "smoother," which is not by any means a complaint about The Move's, but i wonder what The Move would have done with the song in the studio. The bass playing is brilliant, too, and i have just noticed, for the first time, that occasionally in the course of the song, Trevor will play a complex little run which is then immediately repeated by the rhythm guitar. Such a simple little trick, and so effective. I can't say i've ever heard Carole King's original, so i can't compare them. I have two other covers besides The Byrds' in my collection, Dusty Springfield's (dear old Dusty) and Vikki Clayton's, and i think that The Move's beats the other three hands down. BTW, a recent thread on the list investigated the link between The Move and the Beach Boys (and of course "California Girls" is covered on the "BBC Sessions" album). I think it would be even more interesting to look into their connection, if any, with The Byrds, as they (The Move) do three songs on the CD that were also done by them (The Byrds) -- oops, tripping over my pronouns! I confess to complete ignorance here (not for the first time) but it's obvious that our lads were well familiar with the California music scene of the day, also covering Moby Grape, Love and Big Brother & the Holding Company. And i love the Byrds as much as i do The Move! Just curious...... ********** Subject: In a pig's eye wearing green sunglasses Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:17:07 -0700 From: Plastic Ono Dream hey thanks to the great "pete manion" for that article! so "curly" was recorded before "shazam"? "green glass windows" is amazing! what a listening experience! that was the 1st "helicopters" release? i first heard that maybe 2 years ago on "roy wood: through the years", i couldn't believe it. it's essential. okay so it is "trevor burton" singing "the girl outside"...yes? why am i asking so many questions? i'm a human stopgap! so "trevor" sings the bridge on "wild tiger woman" also right? this guy is great, i'm going to order his new cd from "ftm". are we still talking about "the beatles" since this is "the move" list, or would that be "charles manson@yahoogroups"? ********** Subject: Re: In a pig's eye wearing green sunglasses Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:54:29 -0700 From: kakman1 P.O.D. writes: >so "trevor" sings the bridge on "wild tiger woman" also right? Hey, I agree, Trevor's vocals were very essential to The Move, adding that really rough hard appeal, lotsa snarls. Wild Tiger Woman is a great showcase for every member's talent, the vocal arrangement is fantastic, the guitars drums bass piano is terrific, what the heck was Bev talking about on the liner notes of Best Of The Move when he commented that the single wasn't mixed right? I wonder how the band would have evolved had Wild Tiger Woman been a bonafide hit? If Trevor hadn't left might the band had become a heavier outfit sooner and toured USA proper? Would Roy have left The Move later on to join Jeff in the Idle Race to work on their band with strings project, while still writing hits for The Move a la Brian Wilson? Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: In a pig's eye wearing green sunglasses and saying "ELO!" to Mongrel Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:02:52 -0700 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" If Trevor had hung in there till Jeff came on board to replace Carl, it is safe to assume the "Looking On"era Move would probably have had a somewhat bluesier sound. At the time he quit, according the interview he did in the BBC "Rock Family Trees" TV program, he was heavily into blues and blues oriented rock. He wanted to "get heavy" as Bev said in A&M's ":Best of..." liner notes. He was also getting hooked on heroin at the time, which no doubt affected his thinking and his relationship with the rest of the Move, who were not much into drugs. Hence his departure. After all, it was drugs and mental instability that that led to Ace Kefford's departure. On the topic of "what if's", if Rick Price had not replaced Trevor, would Roy have been aware of his abilities and eventually teamed up with him to form Wizzard anyway? As the story goes, ELO were recording their 2nd LP when Roy walked out of the sessions to sit in with Rick's band Mongrel, who were recording some demos at a studio down the street and asked them if they'd like to form a band with him.And that became Wizzard. Now here's another thought. If the foregoing is true, was that jam session captured on tape? If so, does it still exist? And what ever happened to the stuff Mongrel recorded prior to Roy's involvement? It would be interesting stuff to hear. And there is still languishing in obscurity the Wizzard album that Rick did without Roy in the late 70's titled "Bathe Your Feet". If anyone on the list is interested, I have a copy of a letter from Jet records that lists the song titles on this unreleased album. Could any of these be material that was begun before Roy came into the picture? Perhaps these pre and post Roy recordings helmed by Rick would make an interesting CD someday. All food for thought, eh? Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Driving the kids through the crowded window Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:26:45 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Mike Griffiths wrote: >Speaking of pop gems, what about the vastly under appreciated solo >single of Roy's Green Grass Windows? I think I remember reading that >Roy used real kids on Xmas, but I wonder about Windows. Is it kids >or speeded up and over dubbed Roy, does anybody know? GGW certainly is a gem Mike and as for the kids voices, I think we can be as sure as we ever can be with anything 'Roy', that what we think we hear is from a 'genuine source. At least the kids from a named school get a credit on the label of the original 45. I can't remember the name of the school right now and will doubtless be beaten to the supply of the crucial info by another listee. > If the single had been on EMI and properly promoted - who knows? Sadly, I'd have to report that at the time of the original release, this sort of single just was never going to make it! The 'established' music starts were having a hard time in the charts by and large, and with Roy being absent for so many years previously there was never going to be a way back with something as 'citch' as a song featuring school kids. I only heard it on the radio once despite constantly listening out for nothing else. And what was the song all about anyway? Looking through Green Glass Windows - envy maybe? And the Krypton Light - is it a bird, is it a plane, look out baby there's a pane a comin'. Great though GGW is, I preferred the seldom discussed b-side 'Driving Song' - one of my top five Roy songs. Where did the recording of the crowd noise at the beginning of the song come from? To the best of my knowledge 'Driving Song' was never played live and if it was I don't think Roy was getting that sort of crowd reaction back then - I don't suppose it was imported from the Move or Wizzard days (that would be sooo cool!). ********** Subject: Re: Rick Price - Sound clips Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:53:52 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Martin wrote: >With Rick's permission, I've added a couple of sound clips of Rick's live >versions of "Flowers in the rain" and Angel fingers" > >If you got to > >http://martinkinch.members.beeb.net/rickcd.html Thanks so much for putting these clips on your site, Martin. It was wonderful to hear Rick singing those perfect, familiar songs. He sounds particularly terrific on "Flowers In The Rain." According to John Van der Kiste's review of "Dianne Lee & Rick Price: Live," Rick handles nearly all of the instruments: guitars, pedal steel guitar, plus all drum, bass and synth programming. I'm going to be buying this CD...just as soon as I can figure out how to pay for it! ********** Subject: Green glass children Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:03:23 -0700 From: Roy Cooke It is real children on green glass windows, and to the best of my recollection they are from the school where roys sister taught. What is the song about, I was chatting with roy once and he told me it was based on a dream he had where the world was all green, (he must have been eating curry that night) I love the middle section of this. I agree with chris the driving song really get me excited and has a great live production feel to it. ********** Subject: Over The Top With Green Glass Windows! Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:05:05 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey Mike Griffiths wrote: > Speaking of pop gems, what about the vastly under appreciated solo > single of Roy's Green Grass Windows? A dirty little secret that one must NEVER divulge to the ELO List (lest they use it against me in my neverending promotion of all things WOODY!), is that Roy must have liked the chorus to Green Glass Windows SO MUCH, that he decided to use it AGAIN on the later single OTT. Yep, where Roy sang: (Looking Though) Greeeeeeeeeeeen Glassssssssssssss Win- Doooooooooooows He sang OOOOOOOOOOOOO TTTTTTTTTTTTTT Tee- EEEEEEEEEEEEEE Wow! I've always thought that was a VERY weird thing for Roy, the man who obviously has so many melodies going through his head, to do. ********** Subject: Trevor's "Blue Moons" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:05:34 -0700 From: John DeSilva Movers: I just got "Blue Moons" by the Trevor Burton Band over the weekend (thanks Lynn!), and have listened to it a couple of times. First of all, let me say that I'm very much into electric blues - from BB King and Buddy Guy to Peter Green and Eric Clapton; Duane Allman, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Roy Buchanan, and many more. What I've always loved over the years is to go to a bar and hear the blues played by a really great bar band - and I've heard some great ones from State St. in Chicago, to Royal St. in New Orleans, to JJ's Blues Cafe in San Jose, CA. This is what "Blue Moons" reminds me of - a great bluesy bar band, unsanitized, just letting it all hang out there. Trevor's vocals sound like Tom Waits, Mark Knopfler, Bruce Springsteen, Howlin' Wolf - all while retaining his Brummie charm. And his guitar chops are well-honed!!! On a couple of numbers (notably on "Full Moon On Main Street"), his solos just take off and fly. Richard Tandy's piano is all over this CD, and it's tastefully understated as always. Richard's "Mississippi Nights" is very Dire Straits-like in its arrangement and Trevor's more quiet vocal, and Richard's piano solo is excellent. Overall this CD is a good representation of a guy who's practiced his craft over many years and is able to express himself through the blues. I'd love to see these guys in some bar in Birmingham, in their element, playing for the love of playing. That's the feeling I come away with after listening to "Blue Moons". JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: "The BBC Sessions" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:04:23 -0700 From: JAMESMDUCK Hello, I have only recently started lurking in the shadows of this discussion group-all too thrilled to take in discussions of the band and listen with renewed interest and appreciation to suggested tracks-and I must ask a question: how/where can I get The BBC Sessions? thank you, Jim Duckworth Memphis TN ********** Subject: Re: "The BBC Sessions" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:25:42 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Hi Jim, There are a several online stores in the U.S. that carry it. To name just a couple, Amazon in the U.S. have it (http://www.amazon.com) . The price is $23.99 (not including shipping.) Or, do what I do, save $10 and get it from the UK. CDZone (http://www.cdzone.co.uk) have it for £10.67, which works out to $15.25 (this includes postage - it's because they drop the VAT that the price is so low.) Amazon in the UK (http://www.amazon.co.uk) have it for £9.99, but I think they charge a little more for postage. Here's the info on the CD: The Move The BBC Sessions Label: Strange Fruit Catalogue Number: SFRSCD069 By the way, for those who missed out on getting The Complete Singles Collection & More, try Collector's Choice Music - http://www.ccmusic.com . Their price is $9.98. ********** Subject: Re: "The BBC Sessions" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:25:47 -0700 From: Richard Messum Jim Duckworth wrote: >I have only recently started lurking in the shadows of this >discussion >group-all too thrilled to take in discussions of the >band and listen with >renewed interest and appreciation to suggested tracks-and I must ask a >question: how/where can I get The BBC Sessions? Hi, Jim, and welcome! I found my copy at www.amazon.co.uk. Don't know if they still have it, but they have a fabulous selection and i'm invariably impressed by their service. (No, i don't work for them.) ********** Subject: Mongrel sessions before Wizzard / the green glass window choir / too much sibilance Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:49:52 -0700 From: "Richard Kkenworthy" Tyler wrote about the Mongrel sessions before Wizzard. I assume that this was Get ya teeth into this which included Bob Brady on piano and he wrote much of the music too. the album cover featured a large filled baguette. After most of the band joined Wizzard Bob reformed the band in order to complete the album. Then later Bob rejoined his former mates in Wizzard *** Was it not the Kempsie junior school choir, who had also been on sing out the old, ring in the new who appeared on Green glass windows. Technically the first helicopters single had been Rock City. followed by sing out as detailed above by roy solo and then after signing with EMI it was Green Glass windows. Joe pointed out the similarity between GGW and OTT, which I had never realised before sadly neither had any chart action, so probably only members of this list will ever know, the secret is safe with us ! Richard, Lancaster UK who dared to post again after so much activity last week P.S. Why were it that Carl and Rick's the vocals of Lightning never strikes twice were recorded too high and that results in sibillance .....strikesssss twicccccce in the ssssame placcccceee ********** Subject: Piece Of My Heart Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:26:55 -0700 From: "Andrew Footman" I confess to complete ignorance here (not for the first time) but it's obvious that our lads were well familiar with the California music scene of the day, also covering Moby Grape, Love and Big Brother & the Holding Company. And i love the Byrds as much as i do The Move! Just curious...... I think you will find the 'Move' recorded their BBC session before the Janis Joplin single was recorded. Both versions are cover versions of the 'ERMA FRANKLIN' older sister of Aretha Franklin single. The Move must have heard the original just like Janis and gigged it. End of Useless Information #398 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]