[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #432 January 2, 2003 HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE! In this issue: * Song Of The Week (week of 12/30): "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" * Our Woody on TV again! * No 1's * More "Flowers In The Rain" feedback ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Song Of The Week: "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:30:46 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Song Of The Week: December 30, 2002 "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" 1980 Roy Wood single Possible discussion topics: Vocals Lyrics Instrumentation Songwriting Arrangement/Production *********************** "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" (R. Wood) (featuring the Kempsey Primary School Choir) All the kids are in a whirl So am I with my best girl Find my comb...skating home Why does she constantly stay on the 'phone to me Ever since Angela gave me a sax Sing out the old...bring in the new I'll search for gold and I'll share it all with you At home we'll dance around the tree Next year we're still making Rock'n'Roll history From your doorstep where we stand Gazing into Wonderland Mr. Snow...sez hello Memories come and go over your radio Dance and you sway as you play your guitar Sing out the old...bring in the new I'll search for gold and I'll share it all with you Let's dance around the Christmas tree Next year we're still making Rock'n'Roll history Snow from Mother Nature's gown Spins a frosty eiderdown Memories come and go over your radio Songs that you hear as they ring in your ears Sing out the old...bring in the new The weather's cold but I'll share my dream with you At home we'll dance around the tree Next year we're still making Rock'n'Roll history [Enter kiddie chorus, Roy in brackets, then together for the last two lines] 1...2...3 Sing out the old...bring in the new I'll search for gold and I'll share it all with you We'll dance around [dance around] The Christmas tree [Christmas tree] Next year we're still making Rock'n'Roll history Next year we're still making Rock'n'Roll history ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:44:55 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" For some reason it never got any radio play over here and failed to make the charts. It was a pretty good Xmas record not has good but not far behind IWICBCE. Has Xmas records go it is a lot better than most and in all fairness if promoted better he would have it the Top 20 with it. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:44:25 -0800 From: Richard Messum Sorry, Lynn, this one is just too obscure, i've never even *heard* of it, let alone heard it. Perhaps it could be included on the "Best of the Move" compilation? Happy new year anyway. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Sing Out The Old...Bring In The New" Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:02:39 -0800 From: Bob Hughes I played it last night. It was the New Year and all that... A typical Wizzard style Woody single. An obvious attempt to duplicate the success of Christmas, but it was not to be. The history of this track I'm not familiar with. Weren't there multiple versions? A re-release/remix/re-recording at some point? Anyway, one version is on the Exotic Mixture cd, so go out and buy it already! ********** Subject: Our Woody on TV again! Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:02:45 -0800 From: JANES434 (Linda) Hi to all and a very Happy New Year Well it seem's our Woody has had a busy Christmas and New Year as he has just been on the telly again on BBC1 programme It's The Number One Party hosted by Dale Winton celebrating five decades of hits and featuring artists as Nancy Sinatra Adam Faith Dr and the Medics Steve Harley and Cockney Rebel Madness the list goes on ..... Our Woody was in the audience with I think his daughter there was a quick shot of him at the beginning giving the thumbs up sign to Dale then later in the show. Dale gave a special mention to Roy. Quote "I've got to mention Roy Wood he had hits in the 60s with The Move hits in the 70s with Wizzard and as a solo artist in the 80s and 'I Wish it Could be Christmas' every year!!" Then went on to say Roy you're looking good and over to another good shot of Roy. So all in all a busy time for Roy just wished I'd have been at the Roadhouse gig to see him and Carl performing this would have just been a brilliant end to the year!! Linda in the UK ********** Subject: No 1's Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:03:26 -0800 From: "George Mackenzie" Happy new year What a great start to 2003 seeing Roy & Holly on BBC 1 this afternoon on The No 1 show. Roy & Holly were part of the celebrity audience and Roy got a nice compliment from Dale Winton, considering all the stars that were there. Just shows how popular Roy actually is. Paul McCartney or Cliff did'nt get a mention. Well done Woody. ********** Subject: Re: Your feedback needed Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:14:38 -0800 From: "Jeff Cooper" I think this is a clever idea and I would support it. Its a huge injustice that Roy still earns nothing from this song through no fault of his own. In the music press such as Record Collector this action may even highlight the continuing absurdity of the case. All the best - Jeff ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:14:10 -0800 From: "chris roberts" Rob clarified: > If any member of The Move was associated with a reprint [of 'the > postcard'].... they could be put in prison as per the terms of the > original judgement. That is pretty definite isn't it! Oh well, it was only an idea :O) Happy New Year everyone Chris (Wales) ********** Subject: Re: Your feedback needed Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:14:48 -0800 From: "Al Findlay" I do feel this is a touchy issue that has been brought up. I am of the opinion that the band were treated unfairly in the court ruling and that Tony Secunda be held mostly responsible for the offence. ( I am finding it hard to believe that the band had no knowledge of this type of promotion being done in their name) As a professional group of that stature I would think that their image and releases made by the band would be seen by the band. But I can also see an image in my head of the whole band laughing at this cheeky image. that has cost them so dearly!) A few things to consider - will publicity regarding this issue make The Move look greedy or spiteful - the money does to charity (good causes I am sure) If the band at least had control of what charity might it lighten tension? - the gravy train has passed really on this track ( great song! I love it but it doesn't matter to me where the money goes) - a lot of fans would already have this and other tracks a few times probably in different formats too (I do) - It would not matter to me whether this song was on a release because I would be buying it for what I don't have. - Why the fuss all of a sudden? -(Just to mess with history) Put the Idle Race version of Lemon Tree on releases. :-) ( Is it publishing or mechanical rights that are affected. Roy must get royalties somehow on this song.) - Yeah I would like remixed and remastered versions on the internet for free. I would also buy them on CD if there were some nuggets to much on too. (Unfortunately that is where the release would probably end it in complete form.) Maybe the Wilson trustees can sue the internet for royalties? (OK I have gone too far.) - I think this would only confuse record buyers wondering why a track is listed on a CD that is crossed out and does not appear on the release. Unless explained inside the CD this might seem bizarre. - Has anything like this been done before for the same reasons? Well off to mark the days on the calendar until ELO2 in Mar. (I keep waiting for the track listing to get updated......) I hope these thoughts help. Take Care Al Findlay Ottawa, Canada ********** Subject: Re: Your feedback needed Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:44:15 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" To answer the points raised by Al Findlay: > As a professional group of that stature I would think that their image > and releases made by the band would be seen by the band. Why? Things were a lot different in the sixties to what they are now. The band were on their own a lot of the time (for example, security was non-existant at gigs, and The Move had two roadies and shared driving in a van). Tony Secunda's management office was run from an upstairs room in Denmark Street, the band were based in Birmingham. Ideas got discussed usually around the Marquee residency nights. They were actually on tour (remember, this is where most of their then-income came from) when the plot was hatched, designed, printed and circulated. The found out at Oldham, when the venue they were playing was surrounded by photographers eager for news... > But I can also see an image in my head of the whole band laughing at > this cheeky image. that has cost them so dearly!) Well, I'm pleased you can! > - will publicity regarding this issue make The Move look greedy or > spiteful > - the money does to charity (good causes I am sure) If the band at > least had control of what charity might it lighten tension? How can you be greedy or spiteful if it's your own earnings that are being taken away? Lobbying for a charity of the band's choice was considered a few years ago but the current opinion is that by agreeing to distribute funds to another charity (instead of lobbying for royalties) would merely be the same as admission of knowledge of the facts surrounding the postcard. > - the gravy train has passed really on this track (great song! I love > it but it doesn't matter to me where the money goes) As it's not your earnings, that's not an issue but you'd be surprised as to how much accrues each year from UK radio plays and worldwide various artist CD sales. > - Why the fuss all of a sudden? Why not? Admittedly, this is a band that has ignored its heritage over many years due to various members being successful elsewhere, away from The Move. Now we are looking at the complete overhaul of the catalogue and this long outstanding issue needs to be addressed before things can progress. > -(Just to mess with history) Put the Idle Race version of Lemon Tree on > releases. :-) ( Is it publishing or mechanical rights that are > affected. Roy must get royalties somehow on this song.) Roy gets nothing. Absolutely nothing, be they mechanical, performance, songwriting, publishing, sheet music, cover & alternate versions etc, etc, gets paid to Roy or the band. > - I think this would only confuse record buyers wondering why a track is > listed on a CD that is crossed out and does not appear on the release. > Unless explained inside the CD this might seem bizarre. No one would be left in any doubt as to why we would be taking this action. > - Has anything like this been done before for the same reasons? No. The Move are the only band ever to be sued by the Prime Minister. The marketing and promotional potential surrounding this story is waiting to be tapped. > Well off to mark the days on the calendar until ELO2 in Mar. (I keep > waiting for the track listing to get updated......) So do I! ********** Subject: Flowers up the ass of Wilson's statue Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:27:27 -0800 From: Bob Coulter Lynn wrote: > Banning "Flowers in the Rain" and "(Here We Go Round) The Lemon Tree" > from future Move compilations would be a very anarchist, and a very > "Move" thing to do. I tossed around the idea of just leaving the > titles off the CD, which would be the quiet, subtle approach. Nah. > I'd actually like to see a continuation of the Tony Secunda way of > doing things. Not only would it make a very firm statement, but it > would be one heck of a publicity stunt. Well said, Lynn. Don't "play it safe"! I do have a couple of legal concerns though: 1. Someone suggested making a remastered FITR available via a special webpage accessible with the purchase of the compilation CD. This could be construed as making the download part of the CD, and then royalties might have to be paid. If the download (or free bonus CD) approach is taken, it should be free and available to anyone whether or not the CD is purchased. 2. Has anyone considered the possibility that the deliberate neglect of FITR might be a cause for civil action? Could the trust argue something like "In 1999 'Flowers In The Rain' produced X pounds in royalties, while 'Fire Brigade' produced Y pounds. In 2003 'Fire Brigade' produced Z pounds, and 'Flowers In The Rain' genarated no royalties. This result was entirely due to the deliberate neglect of the song by the persons controlling the Move's catalogue, the intention of this neglect being to deprive charities of monies awarded to them by a ruling of this court. This neglect shows a contempt of the court's decision, and we demand a similar ratio as X:Y on the Z pounds of royalties earned by 'Fire Brigade' in 2003 as compensation, plus additional damages." Now I'm not predicting that will happen, but has that possibility been adequately considered? What would be the chance of the trust winning such a court case? Would the amount of publicity generated be worth the penalty if the trust won and damages were awarded? Something to think about, perhaps... Bob Coulter Bobcaygeon, Ont. ********** Subject: "The MOVE found out that they couldn't fight No. 10 DOWNING STREET... Now they'll PAY FOREVER!!!" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:15:07 -0800 From: Joe Ramsey Lynn wrote: > but it would be one heck of a publicity stunt. Then Bob Coulter wrote: > Well said, Lynn. Don't "play it safe"! YES!!! It WAS one heck of a publicity stunt, that little postcard. It has generated the kind of publicity that most artists could never AFFORD to buy - and poor Roy Wood is still paying for it 30 years later. "So why not use it for what it was originally intended?!!" (says the ghost of Tony Secunda!) Think about it... we've got sex, politics, power, pop music and an incredibly unjust court ruling! Man, I started thinking that this would be a great piece for the National Enquirer or People Magazine... but after considering it a bit, maybe one of our more literary list readers could turn it into a movie script (!!!) I can see it now... "Flowers in The Rain" starring Bob Hoskins as Sir Harold Wilson, Johnny Depp as the Young Woody, Shakira as "THE BIMBO," Michael Caine as Tony Secunda and Carl Wayne as Himself (cause he looks so damn good!), Will Smith as Jimi Hendrix and INTRODUCING Joe Ramsey as "ACE" (ha ha - just kidding! - I'd have to work too hard on the British accent!) "The MOVE found out that they couldn't fight No. 10 DOWNING STREET... Now they'll PAY FOREVER!!!" Boooooooo ha ha ha ha ! (Almost sounds like a pact with the devil, don't it?) And at the end of the day, didn't they find out that Wilson REALLY WAS having an affair with THE BIMBO??? Oh... the humanity... Not only would I have those two songs on the CD, I'd try to generate AS MUCH publicity as possible about the court case, the ruling, how Roy was raped by the courts for his ROYalties, a web sight where you can see the offending postcard (I've seen it and boy, is it tame by today's standards) - in other words, try to create a whole new cottage industry out of the possible publicity one can generate from this ridiculously unfair turn of events. Me, I'd like to have the t-shirt proceeds. Who wants a post card t-shirt???!!! (See, you do, don't you?). And as much as I LOVE the title "Best Of The Move," I'd call it "Bend Over and Experience Flowers In The Rain." Oooooooo yah! Cmon Rob & Lynn... let's make THE MOVIE!!! Sincerely, Steven Spielberger ********** Subject: Re: "The MOVE found out that they couldn't fight No. 10 DOWNING STREET... Now they'll PAY FOREVER!!!" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:44:04 -0800 From: "Tim Emerich" Joe Ramsey wrote: > Me, I'd like to have the t-shirt proceeds. Who wants a post card > t-shirt???!!! (See, you do, don't you?). Joe's right... The crime is already paid for. so wouldn't it be safe to continue using the image on the postcard??? ********** Subject: Move Compilations Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:20:04 -0800 From: john duffy Does renaming a song, if its a different version (even so slightly) from the original change the legality of ownership of copyright. example; "I'm Just Sitting (Watching Flowers)" maybe i am being naive. Ahh well. Good luck. john duffy, Wigan, UK ********** Subject: More flowery lemon-scented thoughts Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:14:55 -0800 From: Bob Coulter I know the word "compilation" was used when discussing the exclusion of "Flowers In The Rain" and "Lemon Tree", so I assume this does not apply to a reissue of the first album. I have some more examples of exclusions I do not want to see: 1. First album remaster: there are both mono and stereo versions of both songs. I would like all to be included, even if it means paying the trust royalties on four songs. 2. Live and alternate versions: if the Swedish show from 1967 is released, or the BBC Sessions are properly remastered, or the Something Else version can be fixed properly, I don't want these versions of FITR excluded just to spite the trust. 3. Video: if a video compilation is put together, I would like FITR's promo clip and television performances of the song to be included. Bob Coulter Bobcaygeon, Ont. ********** Subject: Re: More flowery lemon-scented thoughts Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:03:39 -0800 From: John DeSilva Bob Coulter wrote: >I know the word "compilation" was used when discussing the exclusion of >"Flowers In The Rain" and "Lemon Tree", so I assume this does not apply >to a reissue of the first album. Happy New Year Move list! I too am assuming that a remaster of the first Move album will include "Flowers" and "Lemon Tree" ... even though the royalties would go to the Wilson Trust, I don't believe that's a good enough reason to break up a great album's original running order. The comp idea with downloadable bonus tracks of "Flowers" and "Lemon Tree" is the best idea I've heard so far ... the main purpose being keeping royalties out of the Wilson Trust while drawing attention to this long standing and unfair ruling against Roy and the Move. One other idea occurred to me along these lines - could a free CD containing "Flowers" and "Lemon Tree" be made available at participating retail outlets, much like the Jeff Lynne Interview disk that was shipped to some Independent Retailers with the "ZOOM" release? Since it would be free of charge, and not packaged with the compilation, wouldn't that get around the royalty issue? JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Question for new Move fans Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:44:48 -0800 From: GREGG SMITH First, my story, in short: I became an ELO fan around 1977 or 1978 and own at least one copy of every ELO album. Heard about The Move years ago but had never heard a single Move song until purchasing GREAT MOVE (EMI, 1994) in 2001. To this day, that seems to be the only decent Move compilation that is widely available in the States (I got it through an American record club Columbia House or BMG I believe, it is the only Move album they have). So, since that compilation only includes MESSAGE FROM THE COUNTRY and late singles, I still need to hear much Move stuff as you can see. I hope first of all that the new compilation will be available and affordable to people in the U.S. as we are the ones who really need the availability in comparison to Europeans who have always had better access to the Move's catalogue. I hope this collection will include as much info and photos and definitive liner notes like detailed info on recording sessions and dates and album or single release dates and who played what and lyrics and, well, to get to the point, I am an infomaniac and I believe most avid fans are the same. Give us info, info, info, info and more info. If in doubt, throw it in...more is better. Remember that this may be some people's first exposure to The Move and so give us the whole story and do not take it for granted that we know ANYTHING about the group. The fans who have heard it all before will get over it. Give us pictures of the orginal album covers and tell us stories about the songs. Priority Number One should be audio quality and Two should be detailed, accurate information. Now, in regards to this issue with the Wilsons, here is my opinion: Although it is unfortunate how everything unfolded with the lawsuit and such, I still have never heard either song and my collection will be incomplete until I have a quality version on CD and I would not be satisfied with a "Free download" because like many other folks, I just don't have the capability of downlading music, burning it to CD, and making it sound good. All internet music is lacking in audio quality, at least on MY P.C. So I will be disappointed if those songs are not included in any Move compilation I buy. Again, the situation is unfortunate, however, if the money is indeed going to a charity, then at least it's being put to good use. I mean it's not just stuffing some fat CEO's pockets, right. Anyway, leaving an important piece of the group's recorded history off a new compilation just to prove a point reeks of bitterness or greed and neither is good. Leaving the songs off is not going to change the fact that the group cannot get the royalties. If the songs are there, Roy Wood makes zip, and if the songs are not there, Roy Wood still makes zip. The result of those songs being missing is ultimately a negative instead of a positive and enough negativity has already been generated by the circumstances so I strongly believe the songs should be included. Sorry for the lengthy post but you asked for my opinion and I am a windbag. Anyway, I think it's cool you're asking and care about what we think anyway. It's refreshing to see common sense still exists in the corporate marketplace of the 21st century. Regards, Gregg Smith West Virginia, USA End of Useless Information #432 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]