[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #445 February 16, 2003 In this issue: * The Move/Bowie connection (cont.) * Who sings "Crazy Jeans"? * I dream of crazy jeans genie * For a bad time keeper I was on the dot * Ball Park Incident * "Check out Outstanding Collection at Amazon.co.uk" * The Bullfrog responds * A 'Woodless' Move ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:24:01 -0800 From: John DeSilva Lynn Hoskins wrote: > With so many new list members onboard, I thought I'd point the list > to the fascinating Ace Kefford interview on The Move Online website > (http://www.themoveonline) and ask if the Bowie connection that was > revealed by Ace took anyone (besides me) by surprise. Can you detect > Bowie's influence on their early recordings? Lynn (and all): I don't think you'll find too much Bowie in the Move's music if you consider "Ziggy"-era Bowie (although the "Pin-Ups" album was Bowie's tribute to the mid-60s London club scene, so you might there!). Check out the pre-"Space Oddity" and pre-"David Bowie" stuff when young David was known as Davy Jones (Rhino used to have a great comp called "Early On" with all of the early Davy Jones singles). Davy Jones and the Lower Third definitely has a bearing on the early Move sound via the Mod movement (pardon the pun). Many would argue that Davy Jones' singles from '64 - '66 were some of the moddest Mod records this side of the Small Faces. Greg W - you must have a couple of those early Davy Jones singles you can post up? ;-D Also - if you haven't yet checked out the Ace Kefford interview, do yourself a big favor and do so as soon as you can. It's an amazing, brutally candid interview of one of the true survivors of rock. JD San Jose, CA PS. one of the reasons Davy Jones changed his name to David Bowie was to avoid being mistaken for the other Davy Jones of the Monkees. ********** Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:23:48 -0800 From: Joe Ramsey John DeSilva wrote: > I don't think you'll find too much Bowie in the Move's music... Tenuous perhaps, and not really pertaining to music... but how about the song from Bowie's "Man Who Saved The World" album called "Black Country Rock" and the Move BBC Boot of the same name? Is Black Country used to describe the Midlands? Is Birmingham considered Black Country? Other major cities...? Ask me anything you want about California (ha ha!). Bowie does one of the oddest vocal improvs ever on BCR... kind of like a sheep bleating. Genius. One of my favorite early Bowie numbers. And John is right, check out the Davy Jones stuff. I absolutely love the Lower Third song on the UK Nuggets set (one of my favorite box sets ever!) PS. Now that I'm thinking of it, early glam (Bowie, T. Rex, Sweet, etc) all used to use obvious 50's guitar licks as the main part of their hit songs. Consider this, the same Eddie Cochrane song that inspired the riff from Woody's "Fire Brigade" (Which I believe to be "Something Else" covered by The Move AND Sid Vicious) also inspired the main riff from Bowie's "Hang On To Yourself." "The Gene Genie" = John Lee Hooker "Blockbuster" = John Lee Hooker "Bang A Gong" & "Telegram Sam" = Chuck Berry Wizzard hit songs = Phil Spector (Thank God Roy doesn't pack heat - except for in "Crazy Jeans"... or was that Rick Price?) ********** Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:02:40 -0800 From: John DeSilva Joe wrote: >Bowie does one of the oddest vocal improvs ever on BCR... kind of like a >sheep bleating. Genius. One of my favorite early Bowie numbers. Yeah, that's pretty amazing stuff (the whole "Man Who Sold The World" album is beautifully nuts!) ... I'm also reminded of the Hi/low unison vocals in the bridge of "The Bewley Bros" on "Space Oddity", and of course the infamous "Laughing Gnome" from the 'Anthony Newley' -inspired "David Bowie" LP (or was that just a single?). Good catch there Joe! I'm with you - Bowie must have been paying tribute to his Brummie countrymen with that song. And I also agree that it's probably good that Woody doesn't pack heat!!! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:06:19 -0800 From: Mike F Joe Ramsey wrote: > Bowie does one of the oddest vocal improvs ever on BCR... kind of like a > sheep bleating. Genius. One of my favorite early Bowie numbers. A bit of trivia for you. The sheep bleating is actually Bowie doing a parody of Marc Bolan. If you have heard the early Tyrannosaurus Rex records, you can hear how close he got to Marc. Here is a 1972 NME interview where Bowie confirms this: http://www.algonet.se/~bassman/articles/72/nme.html NME: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there one cut on Man Who Sold The World that is a parody of Marc Bolan? BOWIE: Oh yes, yes. That was 'Black Country Rock'. I Bolanised it. I do that to a lot of people. ********** Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:06:08 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Mike F wrote: >A bit of trivia for you. The sheep bleating is actually Bowie doing a >parody of Marc Bolan. If you have heard the early Tyrannosaurus Rex >records, you can hear how close he got to Marc. And speaking of Marc Bolan... the very-soon-to-be-released ELO2 remaster features guest performances by Marc Bolan and Carl Wayne. Much more info will be posted here in the extremely near future!! (Sorry, I'm just a bit excited about this release...) In the meantime, I recall posting a Record Collector piece about ELO2 that mentions Marc Bolan... ah, found it! Originally posted to the Move List on Thursday, 27 June, 2002: Marc Bo-Lynne: As flagged up exclusively in RC272, a previously un-documented track featuring Jeff Lynne and Marc Bolan has been unearthed from the ELO leader's archives. We can now reveal that it is a Lynne original, "Everyone's Born To Die," which lasts for three-and-a-half minutes, followed by a 90-second jam. The track was recorded in April 1973 at Air Studios with Bolan providing a guitar solo (as well as contributions to two other un-named cuts). "Everyone's Born To Die" was re-mastered at London's Abbey Road studios in January and will appear on EMI/Capital's 2-CD remastered version of ELO's second album, ELO 2, in August. The slip-cased edition will expand the set from five tracks to 22, with eight bonus cuts on the first CD, and nine on the second. Of these, 11 are previously unissued songs or takes (including a hidden track), others are taken from BBC sessions, and three feature Carl Wayne of The Move. The booklet will contain many unpublished photos, including Bolan and ELO together on stage at Watford in 1973. EMI/Capital will release a remastered version of The Move's 1971 album Message From The Country, later this summer, featuring bonus B-sides, session material and a colour booklet. From Record Collector Magazine issue 275 (July 02). (Okay, so all the releases dates are wrong. Still a good piece, though. ;) ********** Subject: Re: The Move/Bowie connection Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:51:04 -0800 From: kakman1 Being a great fan Bowie's early career (1965-1969), until the Ace Interview by Carl, I was unaware of 'the Bowie connection'. Given the time period then, David Bowie was into R&B and was very much into the Mod culture. His band was quite a sharp outfit and had a significant following, especially in the Black Country region. So it's not surprising Ace was taken by them and wanted to emulate them. By late '66 Bowie was abandoning R&B and Mod artifices for his first forays into art pop (i.e. Rubber Band). I guess we all owe David a letter of thanks for his indirect influence which led to the formation of our fave Brum band and all that followed. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Who sings "Crazy Jeans"? Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:24:12 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Joe Ramsey wrote: >Wizzard hit songs = Phil Spector (Thank God Roy doesn't pack heat - >except for in "Crazy Jeans"... or was that Rick Price?) Joe, When I posted Rick Price's answers to our questions back in November (thanks again, Martin!) I thought for SURE you were going to comment on this one: Q. I've always thought that you sang sole lead on Crazy Jeans and (possibly) Gotta Crush About You. Is this true and what other Wizzard songs did you sing lead on? Why didn't you do the lead vocals on You Got The Jump On Me? A. No, I didn't sing on those two tracks. Roy re-arranged 'Jump' and transposed it into a key that only a dog can hear. I know you thought it was Rick Price singing. Were you surprised to find out it was Roy? ********** Subject: Re: Who sings "Crazy Jeans"? Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:02:59 -0800 From: Joe Ramsey Lynn Hoskins wrote re: Crazy Jeans: >I know you thought it was Rick Price singing. Were you surprised to >find out it was Roy? Lynn, I knew it was Roy who sang on "Jump"... I must have missed the part where Rick said he didn't sing on "Crazy Jeans." Y'know... both of those guys (especially Roy) give misleading answers to stuff like this. Maybe they like to make the most anal of fans squirm when they have things wrong (remember Roy saying that he didn't even play on "Do Ya?" Yeah... RIGHT!). I knew Woody did the veri-speed on his voice to make him sound like Robert Plant on "You Got The Jump On Me," but I SWEAR that is Rick Price on "Crazy." I throw it out to the list... What do you think? ********** Subject: I dream of crazy jeans genie Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:06:56 -0800 From: Plastic Ono Dream hey waitaminnit! i sleep secure at night knowing "rick price" sings "crazy jeans"... didn't "rick price" tell "jpjo" this in person in the '70's? wait...it's friggin' "bob brady" isn't it?! thud! ********** Subject: Re: I dream of crazy jeans genie Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:51:10 -0800 From: John DeSilva Plastic Ono Dream wrote: > wait...it's friggin' "bob brady" isn't it?! My good friend Plastic Ono Dream: Hope you're alright there - hopefully you didn't Nick your Pentelow, otherwise you Mike get Burneyed!! ;-D For what it's worth (there's somethin' happenin' here ... ), I say it's Rick Price singing "Crazy Jeans" in his yellow coat with the black trim. This has to be true, if for no other reason than to get you back to sleep POD!!! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: For a bad time keeper I was on the dot Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:38:24 -0800 From: Plastic Ono Dream okay, i know it's not the song of the week, but i played "crazy jeans" about 8 times in a row last night when i got home from work. it's gotta be "bob brady" on lead vocal right? compare it with "can't help my feelings". will someone help me? ********** Subject: Re: For a bad time keeper I was on the dot Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:58:17 -0800 From: kakman1 Set my CD player on replay about a couple hours ago (what a coincidence) after contemplating this conundrum, and after ten go's .... Nope, it's Rick Price to my ears. BTW, it is Bob Brady on "We're Gonna' Rock'n'Roll Tonight" on "Eddy", so one doesn't have to switch out CDs to compare. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: For a bad time keeper I was on the dot Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:04:29 -0800 From: "Martin Kinch" Kevin said (About Crazy Jeans): > Set my CD player on replay about a couple hours ago (what a > coincidence) after contemplating this conundrum, and after ten go's > .... Nope, it's Rick Price to my ears. When Rick answered the Move List's questions he did say that he doesn't sing that track. I must say that I've never thought it to be anyone else but Roy. He's a good mimic who can be Tina Turner one minute and Gene Vincent the next - Not forgetting The Andrews Sisters, Del Shannon, The Everley Brothers, Elvis and John Bonham (in his dreams ;-) ********** Subject: Re: For a bad time keeper I was on the dot Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:29:00 -0800 From: kakman1 Martin Kinch writes: >He's a good mimic who can be Tina Turner one minute and Gene Vincent >the next - Not forgetting The Andrews Sisters, Del Shannon, The >Everley Brothers, Elvis and John Bonham ( in his dreams ;-) You may have something there Martin, Perhaps it is actually Roy singing, imitating Rick Price (or Bob Brady, take your pick folks) imitating Gene Vincent! Certain prime members of Wizzard have been known from to time to obfuscate certain details for whatever reasons or purpose or general mischief. All I know for sure, someone is not getting any sleep these days in NYC, hee, hee, hee! Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX N.P. "Brand New 88" (or is it "California Man" , ah phooey, who cares, it's only rock'n'roll , ya can't help but luv' it!) ********** Subject: Ball Park Incident Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:37:56 -0800 From: MontyDaman (Harold) "Ball Park Incident" was HUGE when I was in Britain in the 70's! Wasn't that a #1? ********** Subject: Re: Ball Park Incident Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:58:46 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Harold, Ball Park Incident made #6 in the charts and spent 12 weeks in the Top 50. Only SMBJ (4 WEEKS) and AF (1 WEEK) made the # one slot. ********** Subject: "Check out Outstanding Collection at Amazon.co.uk" Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:59:47 -0800 From: "George Mackenzie" Outstanding Collection Availability: Not Yet Released -- On Order* Release Date: 2 June, 2003 You may still pre-order this item today! We will dispatch it to you as soon as it is available.* ********** Subject: Re: "Check out Outstanding Collection at Amazon.co.uk" Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:40:31 -0800 From: Rob Caiger Quoting George Mackenzie: > Outstanding Collection > Availability: Not Yet Released -- On Order* > Release Date: 2 June, 2003 Again, a bit premature. We haven't gathered all the tapes yet (the master for Mustard is missing and the Warners material is still in Burbank) and Roy certainly hasn't responded as to whether he wants to do this or not. As soon as it's ready to go, first news (and pre-order details) will go out via the list, not Amazon. More soon - Rob ********** Subject: Re: "Check out Outstanding Collection at Amazon.co.uk" Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:37:59 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" >...Roy certainly hasn't responded as to whether he wants to do this >or not.' Again it appears Roy is his own worst enemy. I find it hard to understand why he shows little interest in his own work. No wonder the master tapes are missing to some of his stuff. He appears to me anyway, to seem not worth his effort or his time to sort out the mess his own back cat' is in. I guess poor Rob must bang his head on the table trying to get Roy to do anything. A lot of people blame Rob for the delays but it looks like Roy is the problem! Roy needs to take note and help after all this is the last time this work will get researched and restored. No wonder Roy Wood has drifted to the verge of almost total obscuritiy. He must promote himself, do interviews and appear to show interest in this remastering. If not they will not sell well and he will just be remembered for his Xmas record in the future. Roy should be up there with the likes of The Who, The Kinks and Slade being remembered for the great records he has made. I cannot now remember the last time i heard any of his stuff on the radio except IWICBCE. Come on Roy wake up! Rob - Now when you say the WB tapes are still in Burbank, i presume you mean the post Eddie And The Falcons tapes. You already have the Eddie tapes by what you have written on list right? ********** Subject: The Bullfrog responds Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:37:52 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Bev has answered the first set of questions I sent him. (I'll be sending him more next month.) Note that he's looking for feedback on Question 3. Input from Move fans is important to him. Please post your comments to the list, and I'll forward them on to Bev. An interesting subject, to be sure... ;) P.S. Bev's answers are not for re-posting. ---- You can hear Bev on the radio every Saturday from noon to 2pm on Saga 105.7 FM. "Bev Bevan's Jude Box" features Bev's favorite songs from the fifties and sixties. Saga broadcasts live on the Web at www.saga.co.uk/1057fm. Q1: What did you do with all the stock that must have been left over when "HEAVY HEAD" records closed down? Come to think of it, what year did it close? A1: There was not all that much stock left at the closure of 'Heavyhead Records' as we had one of those 'everything must go' type sales. I did keep back most of the old 50s and 60s stuff and use it now on my radio show. Q2: Have you any thoughts about publishing an up-to-date autobiography, a follow-up to the Bev Bevan Story? What about a Move "tell all" book? (big grin) A2: I think about updating an autobiography on a regular basis, but never seem to get around to it. I will one day! Maybe. As for a 'Move - Tell It All!' type book! Well that would need the consent and co-operation of all former members of the 'Move' really, and that could be difficult! Q3: Bev, will it be you or Carl Wayne who finally gets Roy to agree to reform 'The Move' and not only do a couple of gigs but record again? A3: OK. The million dollar question. Roy has made it pretty plain that be is not interested in re-forming the 'Move'. He's also shown no objection to a re-formation of the band without him. I'd be genuinely interested in what everyone who logs on to 'useless information' thinks about this. Would you attend a 'Woodless' Move performance? Q4: What do think of electronic drums for home practice? Also, do you have any tips for aspiring drummers? A4: Personally, I do not like practising with electronic drums. I have a full kit set-up at home to get a proper 'feel'. It is bloody noisy though! As for tips to aspiring drummers, go see good drummers and listen carefully (and play along with), tracks with your favourite drummers on. For instance Led Zeppelin, Van Halen. Or any Phil Spector productions or virtually anything on the soul 'Atlantic' label - or 'Shazam'! Q5: What bands did you belong to before you joined the Vikings? Was joining that band a big turning point in your career? A5: My first (school) band was Rockin' Ronnie and the Renegades, then 'The Senators', 'Denny Caine and the Diplomats', 'The Diplomats', 'Nicky James and the Wild Cherries'. When Carl Wayne came into 'Vican and Scott's' furniture store, where I was working as a salesman in 1965, and asked me to audition for the vacant drum job with the 'Vikings', it turned out to be the turning point of my life. Ten drummers auditioned for that gig and I am eternally grateful to Carl Wayne, Ace Kefford, Terry Wallace and the late Johnny Mann for choosing me. Q6: Who named you the Bullfrog? And what inspired the name? A6: I think it was Roy or Carl who gave me the 'Bullfrog' nickname. It came because I sing about an octave below Johnny Cash! ********** Subject: Re: The Bullfrog responds Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:51:30 -0800 From: Leopard522 >Roy has made it pretty plain that be is not interested in re-forming the >'Move'. He's also shown no objection to a re-formation of the band >without him. I'd be genuinely interested in what everyone who logs on >to 'useless information' thinks about this. Would you attend a 'Woodless' >Move performance? Since I live in the U.S. and I'm sure the show would be in England, I probably wouldn't be able to attend either way. But to me it just wouldn't seem like the Move without Roy. Beth Gatlin Lincoln Park, New Jersey ********** Subject: A 'Woodless' Move Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:51:17 -0800 From: John DeSilva Quoting Bev: > A3: OK. The million dollar question. Roy has made it pretty plain that > be is not interested in re-forming the 'Move'. He's also shown no > objection to a re-formation of the band without him. I'd be genuinely > interested in what everyone who logs on to 'useless information' > thinks about this. Would you attend a 'Woodless' Move performance? To be perfectly frank, I would not be interested in any Move reformation without Roy. And I'd really like the gig to include the original 5 man group - even if it was just a one-off charity gig (that was recorded for CD and DVD of course! ;-D). Having said that, I would enjoy the other 4 members doing an "Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe" and performing together (just not as the Move). They could do a mix of Move songs and stuff from each of their solo/other bands' careers - might be a pretty damn good concert! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: A 'Woodless' Move Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:29:06 -0800 From: kakman1 Lynn Hoskins writes: >Bev has answered the first set of questions I sent him. Note that >he's looking for feedback on Question 3. Input from Move fans is >important to him. Please post your comments to the list, and I'll >forward them on to Bev. An interesting subject, to be sure... ;) Yes I would be interested in seeing a a Move without Roy Wood (I'd way prefer a Move with Roy Wood), primarily Carl and Bev, especially if they toured the States. I would especially go for it, if Roy did continue writing new material for any re-constituted Move. I would like to see Trevor and Chris in there, too(especially if they both contribute new material for the group as well)(is Rick Price invited to the party?), but I'm not sure whether or not they either ex-member would be up for any kind of reunion beyond one or two one-off gigs. Trevor does have his own band going and I'm sure he's not anxious to start playing "Blackberry Way" again. Would Chris want to start playing music live again with The Move or pursue something different? It's okay that Roy is not wanting to do The Move again. From what I have gleaned from interviews and info from the list, Roy has a lot more control and independence than he ever had before in his entire career. Rejoining a reconstituted Move may be to Roy going backwards and also there's the reminders of some the tensions and bickering that led to the departures of Chris, Trevor and Carl, and no matter what his relationship with the guys are now, he'd all the same just as soon as not join up and chance revisiting any of those old tensions and feuds. I can see Carl and Bev together making a brand New Move that would combine stuff from old set and new material, too. I don't see them ever charting again, but that's not the point. Being a band again that makes great loud exciting live rock'n'roll and R&B music for the crowds, with all those exquistite four and five part harmonies, that's the ticket. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX [Digest members: Please post your feedback to Bev's question. Your opinions are important to him.] End of Useless Information #445 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. 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