[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #449 February 25, 2003 In this issue: * Carl's interspersed quotes * Ace Kefford in new Mojo (cont.) * Odd observation.... * Wood-less Move * The Move without Roy? * A 'Woodless' Move performance? * Reformed Move without Roy? * Fate of "Flowers" & "Lemon" on "Move" re-issue * The Bullfrog takes his leave ... * What's happened to Bev? * Carl/Hollies article in EDP * Bev's burning question * Song Of The Week (week of 2/24): "Rock Down Low" ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Carl's interspersed quotes Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:37:00 -0800 From: Plastic Ono Dream the "move" compilation that "rob" did the liner notes for, my copy is signed by "carl wayne", you know which one i mean, it ends with "do ya" & "california man". the liner notes are interspersed with quotes from "carl wayne". in one paragraph he's talking about being in a car with the other guys when they're telling him about forming "elo", & he's talking about keeping "the move" going, without "woody", & having "woody" still write the songs. this sounds a lot like what's going on now doesn't it? or am i over re-acting again? ********** Subject: Re: Carl's interspersed quotes Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:40:19 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Brian, I know the CD you're talking about. It's a Move comp called "The Complete Singles Collection & More" and here's Carl's quote you're referring to: "The split started before the glass throwing, when we were coming down the motorway one day. Roy and the others told me that they were going to finish with The Move and do ELO. I said 'let me keep The Move and you go on into ELO. If you've decided that's where you're all going to go, go now, but let me keep The Move.' My plan was to bring Ace and Trevor back, let Roy write the records, and we would have taken it to another area, which may have been more interesting. But they said 'no, we're gonna keep it going till it suits us to drop it' and I remember saying that I felt that was f**king selfish, despicable. So I said, 'f**k you! I sack you all!' Well I knew I couldn't! That was the last throw of the dice - so I walked." [If anyone wants to read the full liner notes, visit themoveonline.com and follow the "History" link.] ********** Subject: Re: Carl's interspersed quotes Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:36:23 -0800 From: kakman1 Plastic Ono Dream wrote: >this sounds a lot like what's going on now doesn't it? > >or am i over re-acting again? Nah, you're not over re-acting. Roy may have absolute nil involvement, even in a Brian Wilson-like capacity, writing and or producing, but rest assured Bev will be at the helm, probably with Carl at the forefront if he is willing (otherwise, what the hell would be the point). Chris Kefford may or may not be on deck, but I do not see Trevor forsaking his band and his music and vision, where he has the freedom and control to call the shots. Hey, it may all pan out to be nothing happening at all, or everyone (sans Roy) buries the hatchet, and once again becomes one of the most formidable live acts on the touring circuit, and finally make headway in America. Strange and wonderful things happen. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Ace Kefford in new Mojo Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:36:48 -0800 From: Zabadak900 >If they do, it'll be the first time original members of one of >Britain's classiest pop acts have met in a studio for 30 years. Which tells me that a MOVE reunion, sans Roy Wood, would be well received in the English press at least. Also, does this article confirm my suspicion that Ace has been sortta "disengaged" from music for a while? Cheers, Rick Kuba ********** Subject: Odd observation.... Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:18:34 -0800 From: "cuselton" This current thread about Roy Wood and his caring/not caring about his back catalogue, what he should/shouldn't be like, etc., reminds me of an odd conversation I had with a special needs teacher once. She and I are friends, and she works with some the special needs kids. Not retarded kids -- in fact, quite the opposite. She works with the kids that are so gifted that they get bored out of their skulls in school and start to act up and flunk just out of lack of interest. It's her job to keep them challenged and interested in school. Shortly before going to NYC to see The Army in March 2002, I was telling her all about Roy Wood, hopefully to reel her in as a new listener. I was telling her about his songwriting talent -- how there's not a genre of music for which he cannot write, and write well. That he's a multi-instrumentalist. That he's an artist. That he's a producer. That he's an engineer. etc. etc. etc. Then she asked me: Did he ever act up in school? I mentioned that I thought he'd been expelled from some art school, but that I didn't know the particulars. Then she told me: "He sounds ADHD to me." ?????? When I asked for clarification, she stated that some people with ADHD are brilliantly intelligent and creative -- having an intense amount of creative energy in several different artistic disciplines at once. But, they can become easily bored. They lose interest in the things they create and don't really want to go back to them at all, as they're always wanting to go on to sometime new. Obviously, I'm not saying that this is the case with Roy Wood. I just thought it was an interesting observation from someone who works with young ones like this all the time, when she were told about Roy Wood for the first time. P.S. And by the way, she loved his stuff! ********** Subject: Re: Odd observation.... Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:40:09 -0800 From: kakman1 If you're familiar with John Lennon's school days he had the same attributes in spades, and became classified as a troublemaker and worse. Very intelligent and intense, easily bored, contemptuous of authority, grades that sunk faster than the last Madonna movie. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Odd observation.... Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:40:22 -0800 From: "Lynnette Cannell" > Then she told me: "He sounds ADHD to me." She means Attention Deficit Hyperactivity disorder........... if it was that, think Roy has grown out of the last bit!! ********** Subject: Re: Odd observation.... Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:04:22 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Being something of an amateur psychologist, this sure sounds like Roy to me. He has a special genius, often leaves unfinished brilliant projects to move on the next thing, seems to have little regard for his own creations....too bad there isn't someone on this list who can tell us what he was like in school so we'd know if he really fits the profile. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Wood-less Move Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:04:31 -0800 From: Gregg Smith To Bev Bevan with all due respect: Trying to be brief but a few points worth noting: I think re-forming The Move without Roy would be a mistake unless the group is re-named. And not The Move Part Two either. Honestly, even though I thought ELO Part Two sounded more like classic ELO than did the actual ELO records from the 80s, I always felt that it was an insult to Jeff Lynne to re-form the band without him and call it ELO Part Two. How can you omit the main songwriter, producer, band leader and still call it ELO, even Part Two or Part Twelve for that matter, it just should've never happened. To this day, when I visit a record shop and check out the ELO section, there are the ELO Part Two CD's in the same section with A NEW WORLD RECORD and the other original ELO discs and it burns me up every time. I'm sure other long-time fans would agree that it would be no less tragic for the same thing to happen to The Move. By all means get as many original members together and have a go but do not use the name The Move because that would be like making the same mistake twice. In closing, I want to stress that I actually like ELO Part Two and I still listen to the material occasionally but I will forever view it as one of the biggest rock and roll ripoffs in history ONLY because it shouldn't have been ELO without Jeff...And you can't have The Move without Roy even if he gives his blessing. It just isn't gonna sit well with the countless fans, many still being bitter over the ELO Part Two deal. Only Milli Vanilli tried to pull a bigger "fast one" in music history and look what happened to them. Best Wishes, Gregg West Virginia, USA ********** Subject: The Move without Roy? Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:21:41 -0800 From: "Paul Watkins" Yes Roy was the driving force behind the band, but if he does not want to rejoin, a band without him would be better than none at all. It's not essential that Roy be a 'permanent' member, Carl, Bev, Ace, Trevor, Rick would be a big crowd puller. Let's face it, to try and reassemble all the original members would be impossible - try convincing Jeff to rejoin :). I think that new material could open all manner of possibilities, how about Roy working in the studio writing & producing the Move, also Jeff may want to contribute a few songs. Think it over before ruling out a Move without Roy!!!!! Paul Watkins Web Site: www.watkins1.freeserve.co.uk/index.html (The Move Information Station) ********** Subject: Re: The Move without Roy? Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:37:05 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" I agree with Paul Watkins, Roy and Jeff could if they wanted write and maybe produce for the reformed Move. It then would still be the Move. I always believed they could have broke into America with one more lp. Do Ya charted over there and they selved the Move. They should have ran both bands. I think a lot of us agree in saying California Man and Do Ya were fantastic. They were premature in killing the Move. I think they would have made a amazing follow up to MFTC. I would guess they recorded other stuff not released at that time which got shelved. Only Rob and co know the answer. We will soon find out i bet. We must all buy this stuff including the obscure albums like Super Active Wizzo. If any meet with poor response from the fan base it may mean things like Wizzard Live or Move live projects do not get released. A record co will soon pull the plug on these things if any sell poorly. Roy said that Wizzo sold about 30 copies, i hope it was a bit more than that. I guess at best a few hundred hit the stores it vanished very quickly after that. We need to be right behind Rob with these remasters or they might be lost forever. After all the work Rob has done it would be a crime to let it be in vain. If we list members and FTM members dont back these projects they will sell poorly. Each rare release opens the path for the next if you see what i mean. I can see why Rob released the ELO album remasters first. He knows they have a big world wide fan base more so than the Move i would guess. I think he hopes this will fuel the sales of the Move and related projects like Ace The Bass. Dont let him down he has spent years of his life finding this stuff we owe it to him to make it a success or it could finish with just the 'First Light' sets and no more. ********** Subject: Re: The Move without Roy? Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:39:42 -0800 From: "Bruce & Cathy Anthon" Andrew Footman wrote: >Roy said that Wizzo sold about 30 copies, i hope it was a bit more >than that. If "Super Active Wizzo" sold 30 copies, then 6 of those were sold in Brisbane Australia as I sold them thru the "import" record shop I was running at the time...same goes for "On The Road Again" & Annie Haslam's solo disc (w/Roy)....ALL GREAT LP's!!!! ********** Subject: A 'Woodless' Move performance? Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:03:15 -0800 From: "p bibby" Personally speaking, I would prefer to see "The Move" perform with Roy Wood, as I think he was such an integral part of the group and anyone seeing an ad. for a Move gig would assume that Roy is involved. (Ideally Jeff and Rick would be involved as well). I got into the Move through ELO/Wizzard in the seventies, so maybe I'm not the right person to comment on the sixties version of the band. However, I talked this over with a guy I know who was a big fan in the 60s - he saw them over a dozen times at the Marquee, I believe, and still holds great memories of that band. He said initially he would be disappointed if Roy wasn't involved, but talking at length he then went on to say he didn't think it would make that much difference if Roy was not there today. He said the sound and visual aspects of the 60s band performing live was from the whole group and Roy was obviously a part of that. Yes, he wrote the majority of the songs and was maybe largely responsible for the group's sound on record, but live he was only one-fifth of a very powerful group. His absence, he thought, would be disappointing but not necessarily detrimental. (BTW he asked - do you still have the luminous suits?). For me, I think the answer would be what kind of a show could the guys put on now, and who would be involved. Any attempt to "pass off" a 'Move' based on just Bev and Carl would be not quite right for me. However, having seen some of the "Solid Gold Sixties" tours recently in the UK (featuring many groups who might only have one or two original members) there's obviously a (maybe limited) market for such shows. The "Move" would have as much right as any of these other groups to be up there on stage. I think if this is the case it should be made clear who's involved. If Roy has given his blessing, could he be persuaded to do some concerts - even a few songs?? If the other guys feel they can do a show which does justice to the original band and songs then I'm all for it, providing it doesn't leave anyone feeling short-changed in any way. Make it very clear what you're getting beforehand and I'm sure that, like most things, it will succeed or not on the show and presentation itself. The songs themselves deserve to be played and it is a good presentation of these which will tell in the end. Paul Bibby - UK ********** Subject: Reformed Move without Roy? Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:35:56 -0800 From: VJOHN307 A Roy Woodless Move? Well, it wouldn't exactly be The Move without him, but we could have argued that ELO Part II weren't ELO without Jeff Lynne. The Move Part II, anyone? How important is it? Life's too short, guys! Obviously the more members from the old line-up involved the better, but I think it's a mistake to get too purist about the principle. People are far more likely to pay to see a band going out under the name (and I think I would, if they were playing near enough to where I am), or something very like it, than a band who are ultra-ethical and call themselves something completely different because they're afraid of being accused of cashing in. For example, Steve Jones and Paul Cook could have probably gone to court and wrested the name Sex Pistols from John Lydon and Malcolm McLaren circa 1979, and if so they would probably have sold far more records than they ever did as the shortlived Professionals. John Van der Kiste ********** Subject: Fate of "Flowers" & "Lemon" on "Move" re-issue Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:35:40 -0800 From: kakman1 I kept all the list postings (167 K)concerning about whether or not deleting "Flowers" and "Lemon" from "Move" re-issue and marking their absence with an asterisk (as a protest against the 1967 court settlement handing over the royalties of those two songs to Harold Wilson who donated them to a trust for selected charities) and making the tracks available online to those who purchase the disc as a free mp3 download should be pursued (phew!). Going over all the posts, opinion is mostly divided about leaving tracks off or not, but the vast majority of everyone who posted are outraged that the ruling is still in effect and feel Roy should be compensated. What I haven't seen, or maybe feel hasn't been made clear or definite, is "Move" very definitely going to be issued without "Flowers" and "Lemon Tree", except as a free mp3 or other music file format download? Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: The Bullfrog takes his leave ... Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:35:29 -0800 From: kakman1 Bev Bevan has announced that he's taking off from his Saga radio show for four to six weeks. Will he be doing the rounds promoting the First Light releases MFTC and ELO 2 or is he secretly laying the groundwork for the Move reunion? HMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm ..... Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX N.P. Cathy's Clown, The Everly Bros., Bev Bevan's Jukebox, Saga Radio 105.7 FM West Midlands Online ********** Subject: What's happened to Bev? Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:21:44 -0800 From: "val burgess" Was anyone listening from the list to Bev's show on saturday morning (22nd)? I just caught the tail end of him saying something about it being his last show for a while, but hoping to sort something out as soon as possible, I wondered whether it was political by his tone of voice . I can't even remember the song he played out with but it was really a sad one, about saying 'goodbye'. I 'phoned Saga radio this morning and asked if I had heard right and said how dissapointed I was. At first the girl I spoke to said she was'nt sure if it was long term or short term and said she would let me know. Hopefully she is right as she 'phoned back to say that it is short term and that Bev is having a few weeks off. Has anyone else heard anything about this? ********** Subject: Carl/Hollies article in EDP Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:45:35 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Spotted this item on the Hollies list. The Eastern Daily Press just ran a feature story about the Hollies' upcoming tour and new song, and there are some bits about Carl, for anyone interested. Here's the Move-ish part: "Meanwhile Carl, who is best known for his work with the Move - famed for '60s hits like Fire Brigade, Blackberry Way and Flowers in the Rain - is adding a new dimension to the band. 'Carl has a very powerful voice. He is a great front man. He loves audiences, has a great way with them, and audiences love him,' said Bobby (Elliott). 'Occasionally we will throw in an old Move song just for a laugh on stage - he enjoys that and the audience quite like it as well. He's very much a professional.'" The rest of the article can be found here: http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/whatson/music/2003/hollies.asp ********** Subject: Bev's burning question Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:45:10 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins I'm getting ready to fax your comments re: A 'Woodless' Move to Bev, and wanted to make sure everyone with an opinion had a chance to weigh in. For those who are new to the list, Bev asked for feedback to this question: >A3: OK. The million dollar question. Roy has made it pretty plain that >be is not interested in re-forming the 'Move'. He's also shown no >objection to a re-formation of the band without him. I'd be genuinely >interested in what everyone who logs on to 'useless information' >thinks about this. Would you attend a 'Woodless' Move performance? Please post your response to the list. Thank you! P.S. As far as I know, Bev taking time off from his Saga FM radio show does not mean he's off re-forming The Move. ;) ********** Subject: Song Of The Week: "Rock Down Low" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:44:40 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Song Of The Week: February 24, 2003 "Rock Down Low" from the Roy Wood album "Boulders" Possible discussion topics: Vocals Lyrics Songwriting Musicianship Arrangement/Production Personal interpretation *********************** [Er, I think I need help with the lyrics!] "Rock Down Low" (R. Wood) I'm off to Indiana like a _____ Drop me at the station, maybe help _____ down Rock down low, you backtown sinners Rock down low, till you shake the floor Rock down low, you backtown sinners Till you can't rock and roll no more Everybody's boppin' till there's nothing left to ponder here Keep a rockin' so your legs are achin' like a tractor wheel Rock down low, you backtown sinners Rock down low, till you shake the floor Rock down low, you cold house grinners Till you can't rock and roll no more _____ you find yourself a _____ Soon be on your knees and try to squeeze you back to Vietnam Rock down low, you backtown sinners Rock down low, till you shake the floor Rock down low, you cold house grinners Till you can't rock and roll no more Rock down low, till you shake the floor Rock down low, you backtown sinners Till you can't rock and roll no more ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Rock Down Low" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:12:49 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Wish I could help with the lyrics this time, Lynn, but it would take a great deal of time, which I don't have presently, as with "R&R Tonight", which back then I was in a limbo state and had the time. Roy tends to do this with some songs...I suppose just to puzzle his fans. Probably nonsensical on purpose. The lyrics notwithstanding, "Rock Down Low" is one of Roy's finest moments on cello. As a point of interest, we know most of "Boulders" was recorded during The Move's waning days, well before Wizzard. I read an interview with Roy a while back in which he singled out this track as the genesis of the his original idea for the Wizzard sound...and so it is. Honking saxes & heavy cellos are all present in this track. Back to the lyrics for a moment, it's interesting that Roy recycled the line about "back town sinners" as the the title of a song that opens up side two of his 1979 solo LP "On The Road Again". Sort of a "Pt. 2", thematically. Can't wait for the upcoming "Boulders" reissue. Any idea of a release date yet? Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Rock Down Low" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:07:54 -0800 From: "Steve Graham" Rock Down Low...what a track! Everything I like about Roy is in this track. The lyrics are typically Roy! and he must have enjoyed the track because he did a 'remake' (Backtown Sinner)? Corrections: I'm off to Indiana like a 'fifty syckle driver hound' Drop me at the station, maybe help 'to pull your burden down' Everybody's boppin' till there's nothing left 'upon your heels' Keep a rockin' so your legs are achin' like a tractor wheel Rock down low, you 'coal house' grinners Till you can't rock and roll no more 'Genius may happen so you find yourself a touch of jam' Soon be on your knees and try to squeeze you back to Vietnam End of Useless Information #449 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]