Joe Nagy <  > wrote:

I just finished reading SMALLnet # 294, and note JW mentioning that Dale Kirn headed up Quality Control for Cox back in the 'good old days'. Well, only a month or so back, we attended the AMA-IMS in Pasadena, and while taking a break in the auditorium snack area, sat down with, and met Dale Kirn 'hisself. We ended up having a long, interesting chat with him.

Dale was one of my heroes back in the 50s and 60s, and is currently quite busy, heading up a project for the Stanzel Company, building models of the kits they produced for their own company museum. Dale gave me his e-mail address, and I do not think he would mind if I included it herein, it is: <  >.

I have a question for JW: I recently purchased an old VECO/Dumas 'Sioux' kit, as I had one a long time ago. I had forgotten about the lack of full-size plans in these kits. Why were these kits produced without full size plans? Since the kits are now so rare, I am going to save the kit itself, and try a draw up a set of full-size building plans in order to build one; but this seems a puzzling oversight to me, like, 'Why did they do it that way?'

Also, does anyone know of a source for the VECO/Dumas 'Dakota' plans, full-size of course. Best regards from Phoenix,

Joe Nagy

George Aldrich <  > returns after too long an absence from our Forum:

Apparently Norvel jumped the gun in announcing the new .25, and they have backed off until delivery can be assured. I have received one of their .061's, with the "ceramic" coated cylinder, but have run no tests yet.

Back in the late 1960's there was a TARNO carb. shown at Toledo, for the Cox .049. They haven't been available for a long time, but apparently they were about the best 1/2A carb, ever !

GMA

Scott Winans <  > informs us:

Paul Rodrigues stated that Cox engines have become extremely scarce in the UK, and the local Cox distributor claimed that's due to the factory burning down.

Paul, the factory has not burned down. I do not know the entire history from time of Estes acquiring Cox, but working here now, we do have all the engine manufacturing equipment here in Penrose, Colorado, and it's still operational, though I don't know what is still being produced.

Scott Winans, Estes Industries R&D

Larry Renger <  > amplifies:

I understand there was a fire, but it was in the Est*s rocket- making facility; nothing to do with C*x engines.

Those are being discontinued by the management, and about time, considering what they have been doing to the high-performance detail work required to make the engines run right.

Larry (562) 404-8034

Peter X Havriluk <  > reports:

I built one of the 54" Aeroncas about 15 years ago, off the Comet plans. Used all the outlines, replaced l/g with wire sandwiched between formers, used 1/8" square spruce for fuselage longerons and front wing spars ( I used a 4-spar wing).

Silkspan and Aero Gloss, Kraft radio (2 servos) and a Cipolla .09 glow engine. Whole thing weighed 2 pounds RTF. I think I could knock 2-3 ounces out of the radio, now, and shave part of an ounce off with lighter wheels. Upshot of the matter was that with a Cox gray 7-3 propeller, this airplane was a rocket.

It was about the same size as .40 powered 'sport' models, and ran with them around the traffic pattern till the fuel ran out (no throttle). Something to be said for light weight and little induced drag. I think any of the throttled .09, .10 engines would be just fine. The .074 would probably be plenty of grunt if it could swing a prop big enough to get around the cowling. The Cox gray prop worked well on the Cipolla.

Because the fuselage is so wide (side-by-side seating, remember), the Wasp would be an easier fit because of its muffler and the possibility of using a inch-or-two extension on the outlet to dump the goop away from the windshield. The airplane flew beautifully, and I repowered it with a Cipolla .09 Diesel but never flew it with that engine. Always intend to.

My airplane is still completely flyable, after a radio change. I thought this was a rewarding and enjoyable project.

Don Bailey <  > chimes in:

Howell H. Gwin wonders about building a 54" Comet Aeronca Chief, and asked for power recommendations.

I fly the 54" Comet Aeronca Chief with a Mini-Olympus 2.3:1 geared Speed 400 (6v) on 7 600 mAH cells, and even as an electric the little sweetie only weighs 18 ounces. I am certain it would fly just fine on a Norvel .061 with an APC 8X6, which happens to be a modification I am seriously considering doing in the near future.

My guess is I'll be able to bring it down to 13 ounces. The Norvel .074 would also be a good choice. NO WAY you want to hang an OS10 on the front. This kit is a jumbo rubber jobbie, and it is pretty delicate. My Chief is stock, except for the hardwood spars. I used Micafilm for cover, and I like it a lot, though if I'd known I might want to try a gassie in the nose, I probably would have gone with Litespan and butyrate.

I saw a guy's Comet 54" Taylorcraft fly with an OS15 in it. He had done some bigtime modifications to it, like adding sheeting in the forward cabin area, a removable bolt-down wing with leading edge sheeting, added ailerons, some interior stuff, beautiful workmanship. It flew great, but it was a different airplane than what falls out of the box.

As for the 30" Guillow warbirds, I flew the Curtiss P-40 with my trusty PeeWee 020, and wouldn't even think of a 1/2A in this small of an airframe. They're enough of a handful as it is!

I have a NIB Ben Buckle version of the Ehling Elf biplane. Can anyone tell me what would be a good choice for a geared electric for this one? I'm thinking of using my AstroFlight 15 Cobalt geared on 14 cells. Enough go? You can see the kit at

< http://www.flairproducts.co.uk/ >.

It's enlarged from the original, to 60" span, and they recommend a .30 -.40 2-cycle.

Don Bailey Seattle, Washington

Dereck Woodward <  > contributed:

Zach Allerton said he couldn't understand why some guys on SMALLnet want these smaller engines that run faster and "scream like a banshee when, I think, they should be after the manufacturers to come out with engines with longer strokes that are quieter, produce less rpm, and fly smaller planes like they SHOULD be flown." Zach

Hi Zach; Despite being a lifelong member of the "Diesels Stink" lobby, I couldn't agree more! I remember not being able to afford a Mills 75 when I was a kid, and now could barely afford an Irvine!

When the Mills died out - because it was too costly against Cox 049s and didn't rev like crazy, it went into history for a while until FF scale competitors realised that it was the only engine that handled well enough for realistic flight profiles.

A Mills winds down as it runs out of fuel, unlike most engines that lean out and run faster as the juice runs out - much better for a FF scale subject.

Irvines could probably sell a bunch more, but I remember reading they'd have to stop making their 40 - 70 range to make the 75's and 1.3s - guess which makes them more money ? I still have two original 75s (one in Squeezed Francis' basement on loan!), an Irvine and a late model Mills 1.3. The original 75s run, though are somewhat cantankerous; the 1.3 is a good one; the Irvine is a little jewel, of course. Maybe the Irvine Mills' home - a pseudo vintage FF ship - might get RC steering some day. Right now, the local oilburners haven't got a real flying field so there is little impetus to build wet power models, and definitely nowhere to fly wandering-around- loose models.

On a modern note - I test flew my Hobby Hangar "Pondside" electric floatyboat! As good a flier as the old Ace Puddlemaster but a much better kit to build. Mine has an Astro 035 on a 7 x 4 APC prop and 6 1700 cells. At 37 ounces she has nearly 70 watts per pound - well into fun country! First flights off hand launch proved her to be an agile model with no vices. She will spin off a full stall, but has to be pushed into the spin and exits promptly. She will roll - just - loops easily off level flight and can do a stall turn with a short vertical. It's a boat with a wing on top and the motor up two poles - this is not going to the world's aerobatic champs!

So I take her to the lake on the golf course behind my office, real early one calm morning. The idea is to plonk her in the water, take photos and scoot. Have to have the battery in and everything running, to get her back on the beach. The idea expanded - why not take her out, stooge around some, set her up and take photos as she taxies past?

This works! Throttle one notch off the bottom, she runs straight and I take a half roll or so with no problems. So, why not check out her fast taxy - no worries, she is up on step and runs true. At this point, a lack of early morning coffee sets in. The wind is slight, along the long axis of the lake and from open country, I note. Why not take off into it, procedure 180 and put her back down? Why not? No golfers, no groundstaff. I line up at the downwind end, goose the juice and we're off.

My Puddlemaster with 7 or 8 jugs and a ferrite used to get airborne in its own sweet time. That little Astro and six jugs takes out 4 or 5 ounces, she hits the step, bounces a couple and we're flying. Power off quick - the floats make her pitch up some - straighten up, turn right and out, back left all the way around and line up. Power back, remember that you fly onto water, not drop in at the stall and skip, skip, skip - we're down.

Water departure flight time - maybe 30 seconds! But it was as much fun as it always was!

HH has changed hands, as I understand, but they have a good reputation - I'm keeping hoping that the little Pondside sticks around so a lot more can experience the fun of water take offs and landings. Maybe the new owner will kit the glow conversion ? You oily SMALLsters need this experience too :-)

One quick reminder - 27/28 May is my electric-only FunFly at the CASA site in Rockville, Maryland. The little models were the most numerous category last year, and I'd be happy to see that trend again this year. Call me for details, or check the map at < http://www.cp-inc-us.com/casa/flysites/casa_flysite_gude.htm >. No competitions, no interruptions, just two days of electric only funflying.

Regards, Dereck Woodward

(Paul Forrette also echoed Zach's sentiments about the need for slow- revving, big-prop-spinning model engines.)

Gene Marshall <  > inquires:

In reading a write-up on the 1999 Sam Champs, I noted several references to a Moskito 6:1 gearbox for an electric motor. However, I have never seen one advertised. I would like any information available on this unit, including a source.

Thanks in advance! Gene Marshall

Kirk Kirkham <  > contributed:

Duane Peterson asks if the expanding foam mentioned in last posting is the kind that starts expanding anew when a model is left in the hot sun. Dunno. As noted, it needs some experimentation -- and I'll be doing it. The "Mountains in Minutes" stuff is the hardest to use, but it would appear to be quite stable after it sets up. The MD Foam Sealant may be suspect and will be tested on some wrecks before they get the heave ho.

Kirk Kirkham, Limon, Colorado

Jim Branaum <  > tackles the same topic:

I am not sure if this is the same stuff I have worked with or not, but it sure does sound like it. I have found it very good to repair foam wings: 'spray' some into the missing area and wait for it to cure, allowing it a place to foam up. Whack off the excess and sand down to surrounding surface height and move on.

I have also used it to foam in battery packs, fuel tanks, and weights. You do have to be careful not to depend on the foam for structural loads, because it cannot carry much unassisted. The stuff I have been using is (if I recall correctly) part of the polyurethane family. Make sure you have plenty of ventilation.

Two items of interest. I have found that you MUST clean out the delivery tube after every use, or the left-over chemicals will set off (foam up) in the tube. That is a bummer. The first time I failed to do that cost me over an hour to correct my stupid mistake.

I also found out that you must remove the delivery tube from the can 'head' and clean out the valve on the can for the same reasons. That was worth another hour on another day. DUH! That is the extent of my experimentation.

Jim Branaum

Gary Bullock <  > asks:

Does anyone know where I can get the replacement motors for the Tyco R/C model plane that came out around 93-94? It was a twin, and was steered by differential speed control on the motors (2 channels). The motors are great for FF use, and I lost my poop sheet which gives the parts list, etc. Help?

Cheers, Gary Bullock

Mike Repko <  > wonders:

I am in the process of learning how to make decals with a computer. I can't find anything on this subject anywhere, and was wondering if any SMALLsters are doing this and can offer some help.

I'm using a Alps MD-500 printer with Windows 95. I tried the Adobe program for graphics, but I know there are better programs out there. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Repko

Dave Campbell <  > wrote:

Don Bailey mentioned using sub-micro servos, such as CS20's.

A few years ago, I went to the field and saw a guy with a single Futaba S133 on the ailerons of his .60 sized sport plane. In a tactful way, I asked him why he chose a micro servo for such a big plane. He responded that the S133 had a torque output close to that of the standard servos that he always used.

What he hadn't considered is that the S133's gears are nylon, and at .050" wide, only half of the thickness of a 'real' servo! He went grey when I told him that; and the next time I saw the plane, it had a standard servo in it.

Since then, small glow planes and small electrics in particular have undergone massive growth, and there are a great variety of inexpensive servos on the market. One of the most prevalent of this breed is the one Don mentioned above. It is sold under 7 or 8 brand names, and is manufactured by the Grand Wing Servo Company (GWS in China).

These servos are best used, and intended for use, in small electric planes, preferably not the high performance type. I have seen more than my share fail in Speed 400 racers and cleaner sport planes.

Something to consider here is that these planes don't have the vibration of a glow motor. A 22krpm glow motor plays hell on these servo's fragile gears and pots.

As was the case with the .60 sized plane, you still have to pick the right servo for the job. With my 1/2A pylon planes and brush- less powered electric racers I have had good luck with Hitec HS-60's. They are marginally (very marginally) larger and about 6 grams heavier than a GWS/CS-20, but are built much more robustly.

The CS-20 is being advertised and sold by the same people that import it. I wonder if they have ever flown one on a 1/2A....

I don't want to sound like I don't like these servos (I own a dozen or so) -- just understand that they have their place in modelling.

Good luck with your 2nd attempt, Don! Dave