[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #354 May 15, 2002 In this issue: * Song Of The Week (week of 5/13): "Come Back Karen" * Super Active Wizzo - fan interest? (cont.) * Who sings "Hello Susie"? (cont.) * Carl & The Hollies in Canada * 10538 Helicopters * Fillmore? * The Move Looking "Fool" ish * Favourite Move item * Carl Wayne singing ELO songs * Wizzard uh Oz? * Slide * Early Move demos * Mendelsohn's reviews * Steve Gibbons Band ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Useful Web addresses: TheMoveOnline: http://www.themoveonline.com Official Roy Wood site: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music Online: http://www.ftmusic.com Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Come Back Karen" Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:41:03 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Joe wrote: > ...this is a pretty straight lift of Oh Carol, by Mr (Neil) Sedaka. Yes, to my ears too. I have often wondered why this particular track stuck so faithfully to that song. It seems to 'over egg the idea' of the album for me. The other tracks are all 'in the style of' the early R & R artists but this number is as Joe says 'a pretty straight lift'. If one knows both songs, have a go at singing one and just see how easy it is to slip into the other - even by accident! Having said that I don't dislike CBK and reserve my 'worst on the album' tag for You Got Me Running (but even that is so superior to the cover that Neil Reid did. The latter should be shot for his effort!). Chris (Cardiff, Wales, U.K.) ********** Subject: Re: Super Active Wizzo - fan interest? Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:12:46 -0700 From: Bruce Markow Lynn writes: > P.S. Bruce M, if everyone on the Move List bought two copies of > "Super Active Wizzo," we could make a real nice dent. This list is > more heavily populated than it appears. Lynn and all, Great! Whatever it takes, let's organize a campaign with Rob or whomever...and why stop at just "Super Active Wizzo"? How about "On the Road Again" (which I believe is in the works) and that boxed set of rarities, unreleased, videos, etc...or the boxed set of...EVERYTHING! Who cares? - could be the unboxed EVERYTHING, for my money. Droolingly yours, Bruce ********** Subject: Re: Who sings "Hello Susie"? Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:31:25 -0700 From: Richard Messum I have in front of me John Mendelsohn's 1970 review of "Shazam" (from Rolling Stone). The first paragraph reads as follows: "The Move were born in Birmingham, where they began with Tamla-Motown-brand R&B replete with synchronized Miracles-cum-Shadows dance-steps. Roy Wood, their songwriter, lead-guitarist and mastermind, had been to art school, was naturally musical, and a little reclusive. Carl Wayne, the lead singer, was glib, worked hard at being suave, and was recruited from a position as an insurance clerk. Trevor Burton, bass-guitarist, wore a perpetual rocker's sneer, drank and doped too much. Guitarist Chris Kefford (whose adoring fans were soon to christen him [sic] Ace) came from a family with an illustrious history of psychological irregularities. And Bev Bevan, who played drums, spoke in a sonorous basso, and was quite handsome, had, according to legend, played football with some success and phoned his mother daily." You'll note that no mention is made of Roy being a vocalist! And, as the original vinyl LP cover -- at least, the version that was released here in Canada -- does not include a list of personnel, i think that Mr Mendelsohn may well have got it wrong when he attributed that vocal to Carl. It sounds like Roy to me. ********** Subject: Carl & The Hollies in Canada Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:23:56 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins A very excited Canadian list member gave me a head's up on these newly added dates: Wedneseday, August 7th & Thursday, August 8th Le Theatre du Casino Quebec I did a quick search on the Web... I believe that Theatre du Casino is the new performance hall at the Casino du Lac-Leamy. Here's the Web site, but the Hollies shows haven't been added to the schedule yet: http://www.casino-du-lac-leamy.com/accueil_ch.jsp?Params=y.US.1.0 Box office: (819) 772-2530 or 1-800-361-4595 Charge tickets by phone: (514) 790-1245 or 1-800-361-4595 When is the last time a member of the Move performed in Canada?? ********** Subject: 10538 Helicopters Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:24:32 -0700 From: Bernardo Quiroga chris roberts escribió: > n.p. Helicopters live - 10358 (now that's more like it). 10538...live...by the Helicopters!!! I thought that something like this would have never happened on this list. However, I thought that if it ever appeared on this list, I'd feel really envious against the owner of the gem, but NO. Instead, a wonderful feeling of hope has invaded myself. Pure hope and the subsequent joy. I have dreamt about listening to the Helicopters' version of "10538 Overture" ever since I heard about its existence for the first time many months ago (or was it more than a year?) on this same list. I thought: "Gee, it would be cool to listen to that stuff, but, sadly, it seems that nobody ever taped an Helicopters concert, so I'll never listen to that track...too bad". But, maybe, since our dear Chris Roberts has a version of 10538 live, maybe we could ever get a release with that wonderful live version (hell, have never listened to it before, but being sung by Roy, it'll be great). I vote for the "The Wizzard Roy Wood" compilation. I mean, "10538 Overture" is an important song during Roy' career, even though he didn't write it, and ELO's version (one I really love with all of my heart) is more a "team" work than a Roy Wood solo work, not what happened with the Helicopters version (besides, I wonder what could it be of 10538 without any cello). However, if it's not possible to put this track on the TWRW compilation, a bonus track appearence on "On The Road Again" or "Starting Up" would be equally welcome. Anyway, this seems pretty unlikely to me, mainly because of the timeframe. Anyway, I'm pretty excited and happy. Chris, you've made my day, pal! Rob, please see what chance do we have to get this thingy released! Any comments? Bernie Quiroga, Santiago - Chile ********** Subject: Re: 10538 Helicopters live Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:48:10 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Dear Bernie & others, Oh dear - sorry if I got you too excited, the quality of this recording is pretty rubbish and I don't think up to any sort of commercial release. It's kind of good for it's 'atmosphere' and 'distortion and as a record of the time but defiantly one for 'dedicated ears only'. (Yes, I know that probably means most of us!) I was given a copy by a 'friendly source' (not Rob) along with a lot of other live stuff of similar 'quality'. Dodgy boot legs and this sort of thing are often eluded to on 'the list' and I don't want to get 'into one' about all that. I've not copied on anything to anyone (apart from anything else I can't work my burner due to being a 'bit dim' with it) and want to tread the delicate line between enjoying the discussions on such pieces yet not incurring anyone's wroth. I'm sure that Rob has all these recordings and much more besides - if not please get in touch mate and lets 'do this' the right way (if at all). Oh the sadness of being so bloody English and nice about everything - makes you sick don't it. :O) Chris (Cardiff, Wales, U.K.) ********** Subject: Fillmore? Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:47:29 -0700 From: Tremelo7 someone wrote in a couple of weeks ago asking about if there was any release date on the move live at the filmore and i dont recall an answer...is there any date yet? seems like we have been waiting breathlessly on this for a long, long time...plus maybe it will shed some more light on the mendelsohn review of who sings lead on hello susie....maybe carl sang it live.......mike ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:22:31 -0700 From: John DeSilva Mike and all: I can hardly wait for "Live At The Fillmore" - I've heard some of the tracks in very rough bootleg quality sound, and even then they rock! I would guess that Carl never sang "Hello Suzie" - I think Mr. Mendelsohn simply got it wrong (I recall noticing a couple of errors on his review of MFTC - Bev sang the Elvis impression on "Don't Mess Me Up"? That HAD to be Roy). Carl left the Move the month before 'Shazam' was released, and as such probably never performed any of the 'Shazam' tracks live. It would be nice to be proved wrong on that with some live recordings from that era (nudge nudge wink wink Rob! ;-D ). JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:32:08 -0700 From: John DeSilva "John DeSilva" wrote: > Carl left the Move the month before 'Shazam' was released, and as such > probably never performed any of the 'Shazam' tracks live. It would > be nice to be proved wrong on that with some live recordings from that > era (nudge nudge wink wink Rob! ;-D ). Well, as usual I've been proven wrong - Archie Patterson just wrote me saying that he saw the Move at the Fillmore West in '69, and Carl did sing "Hello Suzie" at that gig. I then surmised that might have been the time between the release of "Hello Suzie" by Amen Corner, and the actual Move recording, where I'm assuming that Roy decided to take the lead vocal. Anybody have an opinion (or like Archie, actual evidence) that might the case? ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 01:14:09 -0700 From: Rob Caiger > Carl left the Move the month before 'Shazam' was released, and as > such probably never performed any of the 'Shazam' tracks live. Shazam was really a document of what The Move did live at that time so most of the album was performed live before Carl left. Carl did indeed sing Hello Susie live, Roy's on the album. ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:08:07 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins John DeSilva wrote: >Well, as usual I've been proven wrong - Archie Patterson just wrote me >saying that he saw the Move at the Fillmore West in '69, and Carl did sing >"Hello Suzie" at that gig. I then surmised that might have been the time >between the release of "Hello Suzie" by Amen Corner, and the actual Move >recording, where I'm assuming that Roy decided to take the lead vocal. >Anybody have an opinion (or like Archie, actual evidence) that might the >case? This subject is extremely interesting to me. My understanding about early Move is that Roy was very happy to let someone else be the leader while he happily played guitar off to the side. In his mind, he was a guitar player first, then a songwriter, and then a singer. It wasn't until Tony Secunda locked him away in a room that Roy's songwriting talents developed. (If they hadn't, I don't think he would have been let out!) At what point did his extraordinary singing abilities really start to take form? Was "Hello Susie" the documented turning point? Going back to John's post, why did Roy decide to take the lead vocal on "Hello Susie" on "Shazam"? This is pure speculation, but perhaps Carl was the intended vocalist. And when he and Roy started to have disagreements about the direction of the band Roy thought it best that he do the "hard rock" song himself. Who knows? But the big question for me is... where on earth did Roy come up with that powerful growl? Is there any evidence of it on the first album? What about live? I've talked to a number of people who saw the classic Move line-up, and Roy did not sing ANYTHING like that. I can only imagine the expression on the faces of Move fans when they played the eagerly anticipated "Shazam" album for the first time. "Hello Susie" must have been quite a shock. (But a GOOD shock.) What if Carl had not gone the "cabaret" route, and it was he who sang "Hello Susie" on "Shazam" instead of Roy. As Rob said, "Shazam" was a document of what The Move did in concert. I'm off to ponder the deeper meaning of "Hello Susie." ;) ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:18:27 -0700 From: John DeSilva Rob Caiger wrote: > Shazam was really a document of what The Move did live at that time > so most of the album was performed live before Carl left. Carl did > indeed sing Hello Susie live, Roy's on the album. Rob: Thanks for the information. This is all starting to make sense to me now - the foray into caberet, the 3 week "tour" of the US, and then the release of an album which featured an original compositions side, and a cover versions side. As evidenced by "Something Else", the Move were very selective in their choices of cover material, and hit the mark every time as far as I can tell. You can't bring "Live At The Fillmore" out soon enough as far as I'm concerned - it'll help to fill in the least musically documented part of the Move saga: the band with both Carl and Rick Price. JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:27:37 -0700 From: "Archie Patterson" Yo All, As a footnote to all this. When I saw the Move LIVE in SF Carl was with the band, acted as a great front man, and did all the lead vocals as I remember (it was a long time ago). The LIVE SHAZAAM sounded incredible, more powerful and just as good musically, harmonies, etc. as the album did. The drums kicked a**. Bev's power floored me. Carl was the "spokesman", and Roy stood out due to his guitar and banjo/sitar expertise. In all they seemed very tight, and not a hint of acrimony as they appeared to be having a real bashing good time. ********** Subject: Re: Fillmore? Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:17:59 -0700 From: Tremelo7 (Mike) ...but when is the cd supposed to come out? ********** Subject: The Move Looking "Fool" ish Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:12:30 -0700 From: Greg Weatherby I was asked by several people to dip into the archives and post the pic I have of The Move dressed in outfits designed by The Fool. Carl looks particularly suave, and would be proud to show this one to his friends, I'm sure. Bev looks about 17 years old, and Trevor shows why he was not prepared to "Fight For My Country", no Army would let him in dressed like that! Roy's outfit may not have been designed by The Fool. However, he looks like a cross between Don Juan and Puff Daddy, while Ace is doing his own thing, with the coat made out of someone's sofa cover. I wonder if Carl still does his eyes in blue? I don't think it's his colour.......... Anyway, you can see this treat at: http://www.newwavesales.com/move.jpg ********** Subject: Favourite Move item Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:52:09 -0700 From: Alan Heath My favourite item in my own collection is:- A contract for a Move gig at Highbury Technical College, Cosham, Portsmouth on 17th May 1968. The contract was personally signed by Tony Secunda on behalf of Galaxy Entertainments Ltd, 7, Denmark Street, London, WC 2. The contract states the Move were contracted to play 40 minutes and their fee was £285. I have had the contract framed so it's quite a treasure. ********** Subject: Carl Wayne singing ELO songs Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:48:55 -0700 From: Mattbobatt (Matt) Hi-- I posted this question about a month ago but never saw an answer. I was asking about the ELO songs that Carl Wayne sings that are going to be on the ELO II remastered CD. Here's the part that I really wanted to know: "Was Carl in ELO at any time? Was he auditioning with these songs? Or maybe he and Jeff were friends and so they got together in the studio? I would really like to know more about this. Can someone please fill me in?" Sorry for repeating the same questions, I just really want to know why they were recorded. If anybody knows. ********** Subject: Re: Carl Wayne singing ELO songs Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13:32 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Matt asked: >"Was Carl in ELO at any time? Was he auditioning with these songs? Or >maybe he and Jeff were friends and so they got together in the studio? >I would really like to know more about this. Can someone please fill >me in?" I'm curious about the "why" part of this also. I have the Not Lame Records press release that accompanies the Jeff Lynne tribute CD, "Lynne Me Your Ears," and it includes a very interesting Q&A interview with Carl, conducted by Rob Caiger. WHY did Carl record songs with ELO? What I can gather from the Q&A is that it was all in fun. Perhaps a casual audition, with all parties knowing in advance that Jeff would not be turning lead vocal duties over to Carl. A few years ago, there was an odd little program aired in the UK which featured Roy and Carl going shopping together. (Am I remembering this right?? Was it the one where Roy got his hair done?) Anyway, at one point, the two of them were sitting together being interviewed, and Carl indicated that he had regrets about not going along with Roy to do Electric Light Orchestra. He was obviously an ELO fan. A large portion of this quote from Carl has already been posted, but here's the whole thing. (This is from the Not Lame press release - Carl sings a cover of ELO's "Steppin' Out" on the "Lynne Me Your Ears" release.) Carl Wayne: All good songs are made to be interpreted. ELO perhaps, give the definitive versions of Jeff's songs but someone else can come along and give a different interpretation which can be equally appealing. What attracts me about Jeff's songs is that they all have a certain sadness, a soulful feel. For example, Mama, which I recorded with ELO and Midnight Blue with Roy Wood, have that. Jeff has written some great songs and they are all there to be sung and interpreted. I do them my way - I like to think that I interpret them as maybe Joe Cocker or a soul singer might. (Has anyone had a chance to hear Carl's "Steppin' Out"? Do you like it?) ********** Subject: Re: Carl Wayne singing ELO songs Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:46:04 -0700 From: "Lynnette Cannell" > A few years ago, there was an odd little program aired in the UK > which featured Roy and Carl going shopping together. (Am I > remembering this right?? Was it the one where Roy got his hair > done?) Lynn, I know the programme, it was one where Roy was looking back at his past - and introduced by the chap from Bullseye - cant remember his name for the moment - it began with him joining Roy on the tour bus. No, they didnt go shopping together, but DID talk about when Carl's mum owned a grocery shop, and he used to fire his peashooter at Roy when he came in with his mum!! (The mind boggles!). They were interviewed together, and, yes, Carl did seem to express his regrets at retrospectively not being more enthusiastic about Roy's move into the combination of classical and rock that became elo. And, yes, it was the one where Roy was having his hair done - and having his extensions put in! Actually, it was quite a good little programme, more like a fuller version of the recent "Rock Legends" done by Carlton TV. ********** Subject: Re: Carl Wayne singing ELO songs Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:41:26 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Lynn wrote: > Has anyone had a chance to hear Carl's "Steppin' Out"? Do you like it? And for that mater has anyone heard "Midnight Blue with Roy Wood" to which Carl also refers in the same article? Chris (Cardiff, Wales, U.K.) ********** Subject: Wizzard uh Oz? Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:12:01 -0700 From: RSMko OZZY! Hey good royfriends, We've been enjoying rediscovering much of the popular Mr. Osbourne's musical resume, and, guess what?? There's often a strong vocal resemblance to WOODY. The Brummy-ness. Anybody else heard it too? UNCANNY! Go listen... ********** Subject: Re: Wizzard uh Oz? Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:40:31 -0700 From: "Arthur Ratnick" Every time I play Looking On at my work, someone invariably asks--"Is this Sabbath?" Industrial towns beget heavy bands! ********** Subject: Slide Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:49:28 -0700 From: Mattbobatt Just one more question. I hardly get a chance to be on the computer so I'm making the most of it! There were recently a lot of posts that listed people's favorite Woody guitar parts. My question has to do with the excellent slide guitar that I hear on Looking On and Message From The Country. I know that Jeff Lynne is an accomplished slide guitarist as well. Did Jeff play slide back then? Or was it all Roy? ********** Subject: Early Move demos Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:35:48 -0700 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Here's a question about the early Move. According to Bev Bevan in the liner notes to A&M's 1973 2 LP "Best of The Move" (1st LP + singles) there were demos recorded before their first single "Night Of Fear" was recorded and released. Quote: "Nothing happened with those". Well, what ever became of those demos? Rob, anything to this? Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Early Move demos Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:56:24 -0700 From: Rob Caiger Tyler, There were 4 songs recorded locally in Birmingham to shop around record labels. None of The Move actually have copies but the tape exists. Best - Rob ********** Subject: Re: Early Move demos Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:11:14 -0700 From: kakman1 Re: 4 song tape demo, before signing to Deram 1. The tape exists 2. none of the original members of the move owns a copy 3. who does? 4. where is it? 5. and what's the hold up (bad production, poor quality, money (a very usual suspect), licensing)? Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Mendelsohn's reviews Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:16:01 -0700 From: "Breetveld, Chris" I loved reading John Mendelsohn's "Message" and "Shazam" reviews, as I have his great writings on and about The Kinks. His detail as to the songwriting credits on the American version, with the "Chinese Restaurant" cover painting, point out the absurd incorrectness of the writing credits on that album. This was the version I first had and loved, but why did "Words Of Aaron" get credited to Roy, "The Minister" to Bev??, "No Time" to Pete (or Phil?) Copestake - all great Jeff masterpieces! Is this another "No Answer" written on a phone message pad-becoming album title type muck-up?? Or are there EVIL people behind all this, then? What gives? peacelovemove Chris Breetveld, the Breetles ********** Subject: Re: Mendelsohn's reviews Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:40:24 -0700 From: "chris roberts" Chris Breetveld wrote: > ...American version, with the "Chinese Restaurant" cover < Er...wassallthis?? Chris (Cardiff, Wales, U.K.) ********** Subject: Re: Steve Gibbons Band Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:17:46 -0700 From: "Ken Hollyoak" Of the Steve Gibbons' Band records, I have Any road up / Rolling On on a double CD package and Down in the Bunker was issued as a standard issue CD, which I have, although an extended version called The Bunker Tapes was issued at a later date. End of Useless Information #354 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]