[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #429 December 28, 2002 In this issue: * For List Feedback * Roy on GMTV Christmas Eve (cont.) * Woody on TV * "Blackberry Way" book * "Christmas" in Montana * The one reissue I'd like to see * Denny Ball * Acid Gallery, Jason Crest, Grunt Futtock... (cont.) * Year End Useless Information Awards (cont.) * You're a Star (cont.) * Article: "How We Slade Wood's Wizzard" ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:02:56 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" How would everyone feel if we listed "Flowers In The Rain" and "(Here We go Round) The Lemon Tree" on all future compilations (hopefully only two more) but crossed them through and didn't have them on the actual CD? Basically banning the tracks from ever being put out so the Wilson trustees are prevented from earning any further money off the band? We would then make remastered (plus remixed) versions available for free download from the website. Thoughts, opinions? Thanks - Rob ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:15:20 -0800 From: John DeSilva > Thoughts, opinions? I'd personally be ok with this as I probably now have at least 4 copies of both songs. I think it would be very hard to leave "Flowers" off if the goal is to get a comp out there that would appeal to the average punter ... but maybe that time has come and gone at this point. My secret wish would be that the royalty deal could be restructured so that it only applied to all past versions of the songs, but any newly recorded versions would be exempt. THEN we get the original boys back into the studio to record 2003 versions of these classics (much like what Jeff did with "Xanadu" on "Flashback") ... Well, I can dream can't I? ;-D JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: No More Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:50:13 -0800 From: Gmcorie i'am with rob [re: wilson trustees] no more. but what a history. louisiana george ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:50:09 -0800 From: Bob Coulter Rob wrote: >How would everyone feel if we listed "Flowers In The Rain" and "(Here >We go Round) The Lemon Tree" on all future compilations (hopefully >only two more)but crossed them through and didn't have them on the >actual CD? I'm fine with that, too. (Since you did note "compilations", I'm assuming they would still appear on the remaster of the first album.) But I'm wondering why would you even list them at all? This would only raise questions by anyone expecting them to be on there and then being disappointed. Why not just ignore them completely? >We would then make remastered (plus remixed) versions available for >free download from the website. No, I hate free downloads! Keep any new versions locked away where no fans can hear them! (Only kidding, Lynn!) Bob Coulter Bobcaygeon, Ontario ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:24:07 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" Bob Coulter wrote: >But I'm wondering why would you even list them at all? This would only >raise questions by anyone expecting them to be on there and then being >disappointed. Why not just ignore them completely? Because it becomes a marketing point and news item - the fight against these people continues - especially if we state that the tracks replacing them are the proposed follow up single, Vote For Me and Cherry Blossom Clinic. It sort of all ties in... ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:34:34 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Hi Rob, To be frank do not list it at all on future comps. You could hide them has uncredited tracks a bit like the take of 'Whisper in the night' at the end of disc 2 in the first light ELO set. Just tack them on the end of a track and stuff Wilson. They have ripped Roy off for too long now. Again you could hide them on the remaster of the move first LP this way the tracks again can be lost just means you have to play 2 tracks which is no hardship. You could even put on the CD that the tapes have been lost to those songs and that they will now no longer be available. Or if need be put it on a CD some daft place where it will not sell many copies like Thailand. That way they will get next to nowt! I see where you coming from with free download but some people may not be able to do this. Happy New Year ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:25:21 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" Andy wrote: >Just tack them on the end of a track and stuff Wilson. They have >ripped Roy off for too long now. Sadly, royalties are taken on hidden tracks as well, so that wouldn't work. ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:35:29 -0800 From: "Joseph Davolt" Hmmm.....this is interesting... >How would everyone feel if we listed "Flowers In The Rain" and "(Here >We go Round) The Lemon Tree" on all future compilations (hopefully >only two more)... OK..."compilations"...that I could live with, but as for the album?? They very [much] should be on there. And why are there going to be 'only' two more compilations? I thought this 2CD 'contractual obligation' Best-Of would be the end of it... >...but crossed them through and didn't have them on the actual CD? Why even list them? I could see protest 'sting' of this, but what's the use? To con people into buying it under the assumption they'll be getting 'Flowers'?? Why not place a note on it regarding the situation, if you're considering that. >Basically banning the tracks from ever being put out so the Wilson >trustees are prevented from earning any further money off the band? Is there NO possible way of having this whole horrible mess reversed in the first place?? >We would then make remastered (plus remixed) versions available for free >download from the website. OK now...this needs to be rethought...despite common belief MP3's are NOT at the same quality level as CD's. A lot is lost in the conversion to MP3 format, the most instantly recognizable being the cymbals. They usually lose a bit of 'brightness'. >Thoughts, opinions? 'Flowers' WAS a big hit for the Move and to leave it off of their definitive Best-Of is probably not a good idea. To make this move, you're assuming the only people buying this probably already have these songs OR have the capabilities to download from the internet. Such is not always the case. If the remaster of the first album is at stake here, it's a definite NO-NO. We should be able to get the entire Move catalouge, on remastered CD, one definite collection of discs, nothing more, nothing less anywhere. No 'spare parts' such as downloads of these 2 tracks needed. You know, screw the Wilson trustees. Maybe the best way to stick it to them would be to ignore them, not let the fact that they're stealing from the group legally affect the band's affairs. I mean, how much money per copy are we talking about here anyway?? >Thanks - Rob Your welcome, Rob! And I hope you realize, by just asking for our opinions on the matter, you're doing a lot more than anyone else bothers to do. You're OK in my book, bud. ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:39:01 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Joseph wrote: >OK now...this needs to be rethought...despite common belief MP3's >are NOT >at the same quality level as CD's. A lot is lost in the >conversion to MP3 >format, the most instantly recognizable being the >cymbals. They usually >lose a bit of 'brightness'. Not if you make them available as .wav and/or .aif files... ;) Of course the download time would increase, but you'd have CD quality versions of the tracks. ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:33:30 -0800 From: kakman Pain medicine making brain cloudy must think clearly ..... OK, sounds a little brilliant, but wouldn't trustees instigate a lawsuit of some type? I'm cloudy about how ownership of two songs works in this case. Are the trustees the licensees or are they the just the beneficiaries of the royalties? If Roy or Westminster Music actually decided to distribute all future copies of "Flowers In The Rain" at no cost to the consumer, wouldn't the trustees or their lawyers still demand they get paid? I'm sure you discussed it with legal people and the publishers. I'm sure everyone would prefer after all these years to see Roy, The Move or at least their own fave charities receive what is truly theirs after thirty five years and deny the Wilson trustees these monies which should have been collected from Tony Secunda and not Roy. As Phil "Snakefinger" Lithman once noted, there's no justice in this life. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:26:29 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" Kevin wrote: >OK, sounds a little brilliant, but wouldn't trustees instigate a >lawsuit of some type? They don't own the songs, they merely receive royalties. In fact, when the judgement was originally passed, no one expected the longevity or continued exploitation of the songs, especially Flowers, in all the new formats, worldwide various artist compilations and UK radio plays. ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:25:58 -0800 From: "chris roberts" I agree with Joseph Davolt who wrote some very sensible stuff on this topic. Personally, I can't see how 'Flowers' can be omitted from any Move compilation unless one is compiling a year to year thing which might chronologically rule it out anyway. How about including it as normal but with an obvious 'Read the enclosed postcard' note on the track listing. Then include with it, TWO copies of a postcard with a full explanation of the unfairness of the situation printed on one side. And on the reverse, print a pre-written letter of complaint with agreed solution and have this addressed to the Wilson Trustees. Punters could then keep one card and post the other to make the point. Further to this, include the names of Roy's high profile supporters to lend the idea some weight and to be a bit naughty - a web site link to a download of the original postcard! Or if feeling really brave - re-print the original postcard and give it away with the CD ....I'm not sure that this will help though. :O) OK, I got a bit silly at the end there but I think the first bit is worth thinking about. Happy New Year everyone Chris (Wales) ********** Subject: Re: For List Feedback Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:48:22 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Rob said: > We would then make remastered (plus remixed) versions available for free > download from the website. It seems to be the only option then. It is a shame we could not buy download to give Roy some cash but then you would be required to give that to Wilson trustees right? If folks on the list cannot burn to cd Flowers and Lemon Tree us folks on list who can will be able to do it for them at no profit if that is fine with you. [Much more discussion on this very interesting topic in Useless Information #430. Digest members, please post your feedback. It's important!] ********** Subject: Re: Roy on GMTV Christmas Eve Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:51:37 -0800 From: "chris roberts" Chris R Jackson mentioned: > He was on twice, actually closing the programme with all the GMTV > staff and technicians And I think I saw Vince 'The Super Roadie' having a little jig in there too - anyone know if I'm right? Seasons greetings Chris (Wales) ********** Subject: Re: Roy on GMTV Christmas Eve Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:53:46 -0800 From: "Lynnette Cannell" Yes, you're right Chris. I thought he looked a little embarrassed! ********** Subject: Woody on TV Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:04:24 -0800 From: "George Mackenzie" Can anyone help me? I was away on Xmas Eve and I had to set my video to record V Graham Norton. When I decided to sit down and watch it, what cam eon but the bloody Simpsons so obviously my daughter recorded over the programme (which she denies). So I haven't seen it yet. So can anyone out there give me a copy of Roy on Graham Norton I will pay for any costs. Many thanks. ********** Subject: Re: Woody on TV Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:23:18 -0800 From: "Lynnette Cannell" Hi, George - honestly, as Chris said, you missed very little - it was a v. truncated version, you saw little of Roy and the band, more of the audience! In fact, as Chris said, not worth waiting up for! (Although Michael Palin was, as always, very entertaining.) ********** Subject: "Blackberry Way" book Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:28:00 -0800 From: Joachim Dear MOVE people, well, i DO hope i won't cause a stir, but i own a book about the MOVE and the bands "associated" them BEFORE and AFTER! it is in GERMAN and called - appropiately enough -"blackberry way". (jürgen wanda, "blackberry way", ISBN 3-925005-78-1) i only very recently have joined this list and with all those exciting re-release projects buzzin'around i found it a good idea to have a look into the above book and found the following "...in october 1968 the move recorded an lp especially for the american market at olympic studios with jimmy miller. they recorded cover versions of american underground bands. denny cordell couldn't get a record label for them, so these recordings have remained unreleased until today. looking at the bbc recordings of this time one gets an idea which songs might have been recorded..."(page 102f) the book itself was published in 1996. i would be VERY interested in reading comments by "people in the know"! best wishes for everybody from joachim ********** Subject: "Christmas" in Montana Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:28:54 -0800 From: Snow2112dog i was in my local grocery store last monday (i live in western montana usa) and what was playing throughout the store but roys i wish it could be christmas......wow i was pretty surprised. mike d. ********** Subject: Re: The one reissue I'd like to see Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:48:14 -0800 From: "DAVID BURLEY" Rob said:- >I've got back all of the multitracks except for On The Road Again (but >we have got the two unreleased tracks from that album), Superactive >Wizzo and Starting Up. There's some incredible worldwide remastered and >exclusive releases tentatively scheduled to begin in March 2003 and run >through until March 2004, ending with a 4-CD boxset. All of which could >raise Roy's profile, get his long-neglected work and musical career >onto CD and get him out of ever having to consider accepting gigs such >as the Roadhouse again. Fantastic news! Always good to get a bit more flesh on the bones. Should be a very very happy new year... Regards David Burley ********** Subject: Denny Ball Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 12:58:08 -0800 From: John Twigger I used to go to a local hotel called The Belfry in SUTTON COLDFIELD Birmingham England and we used to see all the local bands. Among them The Move. I used to go with a pal who was a bassist, his name was DENNY BALL. we went one night and he told me that TREVOR had broken either his wrist or arm whilst messing about with the WHO and he was going to dep for him. I took him to the gig in my faithfull morris 1100 car and had to leave it there as we had consumed much liquor during the evening. Denny then went on to join his brother Dave [procol harum] in a band with the legendary drummer Cozy Powell. that band was Big Bertha who then became Bedlam. Denny Ball has a web site which is WWW.denny-ball.co.uk Best wishes and all the best for a happy and peaceful NEW-YEAR JOHN T. ********** Subject: Re: Acid Gallery, Jason Crest, Grunt Futtock... Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 13:38:09 -0800 From: "Duncan Haig" John Van der Kiste wrote: >Two other songs that could be on this "bonus disc" are "Caroline" by >the >Casuals, written and produced by Roy Wood... > >As far as I know, the Acid Gallery, Jason Crest and Grunt Futtock >tracks >have never been reissued on CD (or legitimately in any >format)....... For all Roy Wood completists (is that a word?), don't forget 'Hazel Eyes' by Neil Reid. A great little song and record which, perhaps, didn't receive the credit it deserved because of the artiste's declining status as a child prodigy. Lyrics show Roy at his wittiest (and naughtiest?) Also, some geezer rushed out a poor cover version of 'Nancy Sing Me A Song' as soon as 'Boulders' came out. It wasn't good and didn't deserve the success that didn't come its way. By the way, 'For Your Love' by the Ace Kefford Stand is currently available on 'Perfumed Garden Volume 2.' Regards Duncan, Aberdeen ********** Subject: Re: Year End Useless Information Awards Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:07:42 -0800 From: AllyGourlay Useless Information Awards: Best Song "Angel Fingers" - Wizzard Best "Group" Album "Out Of The Blue" - Electric Light Orchestra Best "Solo" Album "Boulders" - Roy Wood Best Vocal Performance "The Song" - Roy Wood Best Concert or Concert Appearance "Sight & Sound" - Wizzo band 1977 Best Radio Show Appearance "Jakki Brambles Xmas 1993" - Roy Wood Big Band Best Video "Dear Elaine" - Roy Wood 1973 Promo Film Best Move or Roy Wood Cover Song "Weekend" by The Move from "Move", or if it's a cover of a Roy Wood song then I'll go for "Caroline" by The Casuals Best Album Still To Be Released Boulders II (ok I know it's fantasy) Best Track To Hear In Demo / Rehearsal Form "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday" - Wizzard without the kids. Best Technical Effect or Achievement I've absolutely no idea Best Bagpipe Solo "Goin' Down The Road" Worst Compilation "The Best Of & The Rest Of" on Action Replay Worst Experiment Late period ELO. From Discovery onwards I couldn't really listen any more. 2002 Awards (name up to 5 for each category): Best Artists of 2002 The Coral, The Electric Soft Parade, Queens Of The Stone Age, No Doubt Best Albums of 2002 The Coral "The Coral", Electric Soft Parade "Holes In The Wall", Queens Of The Stone Age "Songs For The Deaf", The Detroit Cobras "Love Life & Leaving", No Doubt "Rocksteady" Best Reissues of 2002 Marc Bolan & T. Rex - "Singles 1972-75 & 75-77 Box Sets", Various Artists "Psychedelic Pstones" (Castle / Sanctuary), Deep Purple "Singles Box Set" Best Songs of 2002 Spiritualized "Do It All Over Again", Belle & Sebastain "Jonathan David", The Coral "Dreaming Of You", No Doubt "Underneath It All", Cholo "Smackdown" (demo - local band) Merry Christmas to everyone Ally ********** Subject: Re: You're a Star Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 10:09:41 -0800 From: "DAVID BURLEY" George Mackenzie said: >Hope everybody in the U.K (sorry Tyler) watched >Woody on GMTV this >morning and are bracing themselves for V Graham >Norton later this >evening where Roy is due to make an appearance, but >did anyone see >the programme on BBC 2 last night called Cruise of the >Gods, where >the programme started of with Carl Wayne's "You're a >Star"? Yes I did spot that. Did anyone see the BBC programme last week where they throw out your 'life laundry'. Well this edition was John Coghlan (Status Quo until 1981-ish). Amongst the 1970's LP's he was either car-booting or throwing into the grinding machine was a copy of Wizzard Brew! Regards David Burley ********** Subject: "How We Slade Wood's Wizzard" Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:53:25 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins HOW WE SLADE WOOD'S WIZZARD Sunday Mercury; Birmingham (UK) December 22, 2002 by Martyn Leek Slade star Dave Hill says the bitter battle for Christmas Number One this year is nothing compared to the struggle his band had against Midland rivals Wizzard. Dave and Noddy Holder topped the charts on December 25, 1973, with Merry Xmas Everybody - beating Roy Wood's group who reached Number Four with I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday. This year Girl's Aloud are fighting against boy band One True Voice from the ITV programme Popstars: The Rivals. The two groups have been sniping about which song is best for the past two weeks. But Dave, from Penn in Wolverhampton, has criticised both efforts saying they are not 'Christmasy' enough to top the charts. Amazingly, it has been 12 years since the December 25 best- seller last had a 'festive' feel to it - Sir Cliff Richard with Saviour's Day. Last night Dave stormed: 'We only had one day pre-play and we sold out of records. We sold 500,000 and I remember the manager had to go and get more copies pressed up. 'Merry Xmas Everybody is a classic song that has stood the test of time - but will this year's? Who knows?' Last week Slade's tune was voted top of the pops by the people of Birmingham who said it was the best Christmas record of all time in an award by the shop all:sport. Following Slade was Band Aid's Do They Know it's Christmas and Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody was third. According to Dave, though, the band did not know they had a classic on their hands when they wrote it. 'Noddy wrote the tune - and it was in July. We did not know that it would turn into the classic it has become. 'At the time we were a very popular band and we just thought it would be a great gimmick. 'When we released it we knew that it would go to Number One. Roy Wood thought he was going to do it but we just pipped him.' Girls Aloud are the bookies favourite to be Christmas Number One by tonight. Copyright © 2002 Birmingham Post and Mail Ltd. End of Useless Information #429 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]