[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #464 April 9, 2003 In this issue: * Message From The Country - when? (cont.) * Roy - time for a change (cont.) * Roy's track record * Wizzard * Secret meetings and Understandings * Carl Wayne ELO tracks * Song Of The Week (week of 4/7): "Night Of Fear" * One Year Ago... Time Out New York concert preview * Info for two singles (cont.) * First Light shines even brighter! ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Message From The Country - when? Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:55:39 -0700 From: "Rob Caiger" >when's message from the country coming out and what's the track >listing???? When we get the last set of sleeve notes. Track list to be announced then. Best - Rob Face The Music Online - www.ftmusic.com The official information service for ELO & all related artists ********** Subject: Re: Roy - time for a change Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:34:38 -0700 From: "Andrew Footman" >Ball Park Incident... Angel Fingers... Forever... Are You Ready To >Rock... See My Baby Jive... I Wish It Could Be Christmas >Everyday...... I think he means the albums tracks Lynn not the singles. Roy did Jolly Cup Of Tea and Beautiful Daughter and the School benefit gig at the Civic Hall some years back. I have not heard him play them again live. ********** Subject: Roy's track record Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:35:35 -0700 From: John Collins In answer to Lynn, and Roy's new material. Roy spoke about a new album at least 2 years ago, and yes I was there when he performed Big Girls Blues for the first time, and very good it was too. I saw the clip of Spectacular, and it sounded good. However these are 2 new tracks in 2 years. So at this rate, the new album will be due out in 2011. I think you know where I am coming from Lynn. Between 1967 and 1986, Roy wrote (3 of them with others) 13 albums. Plus hit singles, and produced and wrote for others. Works out roughly 1 and a half albums a year. Incredible! Since 1986, nothing. Very sad, a waste to be honest. Now works out at 3 albums a year. The saddest fact of all. It may be that Roy is having difficulty writing this type of music. I think he would have been better doing what he does best. A rock/pop album or a Boulders/Mustard 2. I think Roy like all artists I suppose, doubt their ability from time to time. If there is one thing I would say to Roy, it would be don't worry, just lets hear it, I am sure we will like it. We will back you, in whatever you try to do. Just have some faith. I don't bet, but if I did I would say that new album will not be coming out this year. I would love to be proved wrong. ********** Subject: Re: Roy's track record Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:22:35 -0700 From: "cuselton" John wrote: >So at this rate, the new album will be due out in 2011. I think the biggest problem here is that he doesn't have a recording contract to begin with. Even if he did have an album full of complete material ready RIGHT NOW, he doesn't have a label on which he can release his stuff. He'd have to release it independently, and he's only done that once or twice before. Rob Caiger could give us the details, but seems like he did release one single or a very few songs independently, but that's it. Don't know the cost involved in it, but it may be prohibitive, or releasing independently may be something that he just doesn't want to mess with. Would he be more enthusiastic about releasing new material if he were on a record label that actually supported his efforts? The answer to that is probably a resounding "yes"! Not that I know anything about the guy -- never met him -- but one wonders if there's a lack of motivation when you have no effective mechanism for getting your stuff released. Sure, he released lots of stuff earlier, but he had contracts then (sometimes several at once! which caused him a few headaches I would imagine.) If he had a recording contract by a supportive record label in his hand right now, and he STILL wasn't releasing new material, then I could understand the discontent. However, since he doesn't really have an effective mechanism for releasing new material, it could be that one shouldn't be too critical of someone else until you've walked a few miles in his moccasins. Maybe I've got the wrong idea on this? Comments from the music business record label knowledgable? Hey Joe at BirdCage Records! Do ya have any comments? my 2 cents... thanks! cu tornado alley, ok ********** Subject: Re: Roy's track record Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:23:33 -0700 From: "Rob Caiger" It has been interesting reading all the different - but heartfelt - comments on the lack of Roy Wood material since his last album in 1986. > Roy spoke about a new album at least 2 years ago, And two years ago, Roy believed it. In 1997, I sat in an Indian Restaurant in London, after his BBC interview on the Johnnie Walker show and we talked over what was going to be his new album - even down to the cover artwork. Something along the lines of Sparks "Angst In My Pants", except more gothic... What Roy says on stage, to fans after a gig, or to reporters during interviews and what he does are two different things. But the one constant is he geniunely believes what he is saying - it isn't boasting, it isn't deceit. And when they don't happen, well, it's pretty upsetting for fans, but think how stressful it is to the artist. > It may be that Roy is having difficulty writing this type of music. Roy has written a lot of music, some unreleased, but all of a very high standard and creativity. Unfortunately, there appears to be a price paid for that creativity. One example is that very little over the last 25 years has got out to the public, be it on record or live. For example, the unreleased material I've found from 1972 - 1976 is fascinating, even the unfinished, abandoned and backing tracks. Adding this material to what was released and considering the gruelling tours and TV appearances Wizzard did - over a very short period of time - you could easily form the opinion that Roy suffered burn out - the stories of exhaustion and illness from this period are well documented. Which would also explain where his career in the eighties went. Despite the exhaustion, management and contractual problems, Roy was still creating. If anything, there was simply too much creativity, covering many different musical styles. From 1976 onwards, Roy really could have been the UK version of Frank Zappa. Unfortunately, management, the media and the public, didn't want or couldn't handle that. To establish Roy as an English Zappa would have required a great deal of support with trusted, skilled people around him - with a lot of patience - and no agenda aside from allowing artistic freedom. Too much for any record company in the seventies to handle, especially as in their view Roy was a hit single machine that could potential write for them lots of lucrative material. And if you think about it, with singles such as Rock City, Green Glass Windows, etc, from the early and mid-eighties, is exactly what Roy tried to deliver to satisfy the record companies. In reality, he was following the trends, instead of setting them. Had Main Street / Wizzo been released and supported, I think we would have seen a very different career path for Roy Wood. Will there ever be a brand new Roy Wood album? Probably not. But there are potentially some interesting new projects that may lead Roy to create and release new material, which would be supported by the record industry - they all know they owe him that. We shall see.... Rob Face The Music Online - www.ftmusic.com The official information service for ELO & all related artists ********** Subject: Wizzard Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:23:13 -0700 From: John Collins >The musicians who made up Wizzard were absolutely top flight. While the >"Army" is very good indeed, there's just no comparison. Lynn I personally think the Army are the best band Roy has had since Wizzard, but it is almost unfair to compare the two. Wizzard were all superb musicians, but the sound they created was something very special indeed. I am surprised in all this talk recently about the Move, I am surprised no one has suggested reforming Wizzard! So I will say it, I would like to see a reformed Wizzard, as they were bloody awesome! I still believe that Roy wrote his best material during the Wizzard period. (Move backlash anticipated) Listen to the production of the singles Ball Park Incident, See My Baby Jive, Angel Fingers, IWICBCE, Rock N Roll Winter, Are You Ready To Rock and This Is The Story Of My Love. It really does not get any better than this. ********** Subject: Secret meetings and Understandings Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:22:10 -0700 From: John Collins Lynn said >About three years ago I asked Roy about doing more big band >arrangements (I made some suggestions) - he said he'd tried some >others but they sounded like sh*t. O yes Lynn and how long have these secret assignations been going on between you and Roy? :-) >> Does everyone understand what I am saying? >No, sorry, I don't. Roy would need a whole new type of band to pull >off the songs you've suggested. Maybe that's your complaint? The >Big Band? Come on be honest Lynn you don't like the Army do you? You have already said Roy should scrap them. You want someone to agree with you don't you? What I am saying is Roy is bored to death doing the same songs. If he does not change them soon, and either sing some of his others songs or some new ones, my fear is that he will jack it all in. If The Army does limit Roy, as you have suggested, then he will have to move on (no pun). Certainly he would have to have a completely different sort of band, should he ever want to do the solo albums live. As we have both said they are very complex. So yes Lynn, I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. :-) ********** Subject: Re: Secret meetings and Understandings Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:23:21 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins >O yes Lynn and how long have these secret assignations been going on >between you and Roy? :-) It's a secret. >Come on be honest Lynn you don't like the Army do you? You have >already >said Roy should scrap them. You want someone to agree with >you don't you? That's not *exactly* what I said. I said I feel that the "big band" idea has run its course. (It's going on 11 years now, right? If you think about it, that's the longest amount of time Roy has worked with any creative concept.) That said, I absolutely loved a lot of the songs I saw The Army do in NY. "California Man," "Are You Ready To Rock," and the utterly fantastic "I Can Hear The Grass Grow," to name just a few. Really excellent. But, the "big band" format has its restrictions, and the band itself is missing some key elements needed to perform some of our favorite Wizzard tunes. >If The Army does limit Roy, as you have suggested, then he will have >to >move on (no pun). I think he already is. Moving on, that is...by working with Carl, as has been mentioned on the list. Let's see what happens with that. P.S. I love Wizzard, too. ********** Subject: Carl Wayne ELO tracks Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:24:36 -0700 From: "DarrenL" These tracks recorded with vocals by The Move's Carl Wayne are a real departure to anything else Jeff was doing at the time. Although they're unfinished it's hard to imagine that there's a lot missing. Your World is a very soulful Motwnish R&B track which seems to owe more to Roy Wood's later Move rockers than to Jeff's previous works although the Jeff touches are evident throughout with a very 'Message from The Country' drum track. This song will not be what you are expecting to hear. You'll probably want to smile but you might not know why. Get A Hold of Myself is also a soulful track (maybe it's just Carls voice (top form btw)) but has a lot more of a ELO feel in the verses (sounding like it was later adapted for Telephone Line) whilst the chorus is a Roy Wood stomp. The backing vocals are also quite Woodyie:-) A fine track which, again, sounds pretty much finished. Mama doesn't work. It's quite easy to see where Jeff wanted this version to go but without the full string arrangement and vocal harmonies of the original it sounds as if somethings missing. Overall it works great as a long album track but fails (or would have) as a single. Carls got a great a voice though. ********** Subject: Song Of The Week: "Night Of Fear" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:30:52 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins Song Of The Week: April 7, 2003 "Night Of Fear" by The Move Possible discussion topics: Vocals Songwriting Lyrics Instrumentation Arrangement/Production Live performance Strong or weak points *********************** "Night Of Fear" (R. Wood) The silent night has turned to a night of fear With windows howling wind into your ear You listen to the spirits far behind These things you hear are too much for your mind The bell strikes and your spine chills like the grave The chill that turns your blood from red to grey You know that with these things you see and hear The silent night has turned to a night of fear CHORUS: Image on your bedroom wall Shadows marching in the hall Just about to flip your mind Just about to trip your mind Just about to flip your mind Just about to trip your mind The green and purple lights affect your sight Your mother cannot comfort you tonight Your brain calls out for help that's never there The silent night has turned to a night of fear (Repeat Chorus) (Repeat First Verse) Just about to flip your mind Just about to trip your mind Just about to flip your mind Just about to trip your mind ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Night Of Fear" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 03:05:50 -0700 From: kakman1 How the hell did "Night Of Fear" not chart at all in the U.S.A.? Was someone asleep at the switch at Deram's U.S. promotions office? Probably dull AM radio programmers may have been turned off by the dark subject matter of the lyric. But how could they have resisted that killer Tchaikofsky riff and those wailing snarly vocals from Carl, Roy and Trevor? And surely the b-side (Disturbance) could have shown this was no mere novelty act? The BBC version sounds better than the single, must have been a real killer number in concert, especially with Chris Kefford's booming, throbbing bass lines, he must have been listening to John Entwhislte for inspiration. Lest not forget Bev's solid thundering percussion. Perhaps the production was considered a bit too raw for radio listeners. Wonder how this might have sounded if Shel Talmy or Glyn Johns produced .... Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Night Of Fear" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 03:05:59 -0700 From: "Robert Fitzpatrick" Probably one of the most well known of The Move's songs is like one of those gory films that you sort of watch behind the couch! the Arrangment of the song is excellant but like most of their songs the production is not very high standard but that neccarly is not a bad point because if the lyrics of the song hold up most of time the production will be overlooked and that is the case here. The vocals add something rare to most songs and that is it sends a chill up your spine when you hear it! ********** Subject: One Year Ago... Time Out New York concert preview Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:17:25 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Time Out NY March 21-28, 2002 Preview: Roy Wood's Army; Village Underground; Thu 21-Sun 24 by Scott Schinder A star hit maker in his homeland of England and a beloved cult figure here, Roy Wood is the mastermind behind some of the most beguiling tunes of our time. And yet these four shows mark this pop-rock auteur's first official New York appearance since the mid-70's. Wood first made his mark in the late '60s as leader of the Move, whose fab mix of infectious songcraft and savvy media manipulation made it a consistent hit act in the U.K., where such Wood-penned singles as "Flowers in the Rain, "I Can Hear the Grass Grow" and"Fire Brigade" were top-ten hits. Those tunes merged Wood's penchant for Beatlesque melodies with a gently twisted lyrical sensibility, while the band's gear-smashing antics and media stunts kept its name in the papers. The Move's failure to dent the U.S. charts is an enduring mystery, but the group's best work - particularly its early singles and eponymous 1968 debut album - remains a cornerstone of any left-of-center pop library. In the early '70s, Wood and bandmates Jeff Lynne and Bev Bevan scrapped the Move to launch Electric Light Orchestra. Although ELO was initially intended as a more self-consciously arty expansion of the Move's baroque pop approach, Wood split after the new project's 1971 debut "No Answer." Lynne subsequently guided ELO to orchestral bombast and stateside stardom, while Wood had continued U.K. success with Wizzard, whose blend of glammy hard rock, '50s rock and roll and Spectoresque orchestration yielded memorable British hits such as "See My Baby Jive" and "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday." Wood last played NYC in the mid-'90s, when he made a pair of guest appearances backed by Cheap Trick, who've always cited him as a major influence. This time around, he's bringing his English band, a 12-piece coed combo featuring a seven-woman horn section. Wood's promised a selection of Move and Wizzard classics along with some new tunes, so devotees are unlikely to be disappointed. ********** Subject: Re: Info for two singles Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:20:45 -0700 From: Harold Andrew Footman wrote: >It is not Rats, it is called Nuts. It was a B side to Come And Get >It. The >first press of the A side was called If You Want It. WE ALL >KNOW WHO WROTE >THIS! The wrong title is worth £6 and the correct >title is worth £8! They >also made 1 lp called The Magic Christians, >Major Minor SMLP 71 worth £30. >All info Record Collector Rare >Record Price Guide 2004. MY single says "Rats" c/w "If You Want It". ********** Subject: Re: Info for two singles Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:21:23 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins >MY single says "Rats" c/w "If You Want It". This thread has been entertaining, I must say. So which is it? Rats, Nats, or Nuts? Without stating the obvious... since we know that Trevor wrote it in 1971 when he was in a band called Balls, um, what else could it be?? ********** Subject: Re: Info for two singles Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:23:43 -0700 From: "Andrew Footman" Info must be wrong in Record Collector. Unless on the later pressing it was called Nuts. Up to yet there appears to be 3 titles anyone else out there got a copy of the later pressing ? If so what is it called on that? ********** Subject: First Light shines even brighter! Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:38:03 -0800 From: John DeSilva I've finally gotten a chance to listen to the whole 2 disk set of "First Light - ELO2", and all I can say is WOW! This is really a stellar release - both from the sonic perspective as well as the bonus tracks, photos, and liner notes perspective (especially the latter). For what it's worth, here's my take - focusing on the sections of the set that are Move/Woody related: THE ORIGINAL ALBUM This has always been one of my favorite ELO albums anyway - it was like an extension of the latter Move of "Looking On" and "Message From The Country", while breaking new ground (Richard Tandy's use of the synthesizer on this album is inspired and innovative). What a revelation the remaster is on this CD! I can hear Jeff's guitar parts much more clearly, and the synth parts sound more full-bodied. For a good example, listen to "Kuiama" on headphones (especially the end bit) - spatially it's amazing. THE BONUS TRACKS The instrumental "In Old England Town" is a real curiosity to me - I've never heard it as a B side so this is my first exposure to it. The melody line is arranged in the early version of the song (check out "First Light - ELO" for the live version when it was called "Jeff's Boogie No. 2"). THE LOST PLANET (rarities and curios) A lot of great BBC sessions here - especially "Roll Over Beethoven", where Jeff's guitar is very up front in the mix (a very good choice!). As I was listening to "From The Sun To The World (Boogie No. 1)(BBC Version)", I was yet again struck by how interesting it would have been had Woody and Bill Hunt had stuck with ELO for another album or two. I can really tell how the direction changed after "In Old England Town" and "From The Sun To The World" had been recorded and Roy left. CARL WAYNE AND ELO I like all three tracks, especially "Your World". Ol' Charlie should have released this one as a single - his soulful vocal combined with the rocked up arrangement could well have been a hit. I think "Mama" could have been improved on with some work on the arrangement (we're only hearing take 1 after all), but Carl's vocals shine on this one. Listen to when he goes to the upper register on the line "though the end is near" - beautiful. Carl's still got excellent pipes (even after major surgery) - in between Hollies commitments, I hope one day he follows through with his wish to do an entire album of Jeff Lynne songs. With the right arrangements it could be a classic. REMAINDER The liner notes maintain (if not surpass) the high standards of the last "First Light" release - very informative and well researched. The new pictures and memorabilia are very cool, especially the poster for the Reading Festival - notice who's on the bill with ELO ... none other than Roy Wood's Wizard! (ok they spelled it wrong). Sorry to go on so long in this post, but this is such a wonderful release - I can't help but sing its praises!!! (ok, it's a long song ... ) ;-D Thanks again to Rob and Lynn and the whole FTM team for making this available to us!!! It is most appreciated. JD San Jose, CA End of Useless Information #464 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. 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