[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #486 July 13, 2003 In this issue: * Drowning in a sea of blackberries * Pop goes my world! * "Blackberry Way" vs "Strawberry Fields" * Blackberry way way out! * ELO 2 * "California Man" comp * Twisted lyrics (cont.) * Roy tape on eBay * Multi-instrumentalist indeed! (NME interview) (cont.) * Important message from Rob re: Move compilation (cont.) ============================================================== The contents of this digest are the copyright of The Move "Useless Information" Mailing List and may not be re-published or re-distributed elsewhere without permission and credit. To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:40:14 -0700 From: Plastic Ono Dream >"boats on a lake, unattended now, the laughter's drowned" oh no...no one's gonna burst my bubble on this one! "boats on the lake unattended now for all to drown" has gotta stay that way! it's the most beautifully morbid line in this...one of my all time favorite move/roy wood songs! how wonderfully dark this song is. the terrible rainy day...bare trees...neglect...eyes to the wall...a literal battlefield of careless sins? wow! not to mention the false hope & paranoia of running for the train & hearing a "thing in the air" saying "look behind you for she may be there". eerie! and yet the strength of "i don't need you"! geez...is this the best song ever written or what? i gots me some chills! however i do agree with "kakman" & others that i never found anything "beatles" about this song at all! the best sounding version of this song i found on "the move-the singles collection & more" cd. no surprise since it was done with the involvement of rob caiger. of course...NOTHING...was better than actually seeing roy wood's army do this live...and i was able to put my arms around fellow list members for the chorus. whatta song! i'm drained!...a puddle of helpless emotion... ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:50:10 -0700 From: "Martin Kinch" Plastic Ono Dream wrote: >oh no...no one's gonna burst my bubble on this one! > >"boats on the lake unattended now for all to drown" has gotta stay >that way! Pop!! Sorry matey, The words from the sheet music are Boats on a lake Unattended now the laughter's drowned I'm incredibly down Full lyrics are here for anyone interested http://martinkinch.members.beeb.net/blackberry.html Also Lynne said about Brontosaurus: >I was sitting here thoroughly enjoying my Roy Wood "Singles" CD when >THAT LINE from "Brontosaurus" reared its ugly head. >Well her sister used to hate it >So I never thought she'd make it >But she threw you all >Supposing in a Spangle wrapper >This can't be what he's really saying. (Can it??) Yep - that's exactly what it says in the sheet music ********** Subject: Pop goes my world! Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:03:16 -0700 From: Plastic Ono Dream oh great! it would be that loveable martin "i know everything" kinch that would paddle across the ocean to burst my blackberry bubble! well martin luv, sometimes sheet music is not correct as far as lyrics & chords go. i might just be supposing in my spangled wrapper...but the 3 times i saw roy wood's army sing "blackberry way" in front of me...it sounded like "unattended now for all to drown". what does anyone else think? am i crazy, one sided & morbid?...well yes, but what about the lyrics? ********** Subject: Re: Pop goes my world! Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:31 -0700 From: "Lynnette Cannell" >what does anyone else think? am i crazy, one sided & morbid?...well >yes, but what about the lyrics? Um - think this might be a case of hearing what you want/expect to hear. (Well, you DID ask!!) I got the lyrics from the old fan club newsletter, btw, where they always used to put the lyrics to new singles, so a second source....... But what the heck - I bet in any audience, there are any number of different people, singing different words to the lyrics!! All quite happily, no doubt! Personally, I always find the lyrics to Ball Park Incident confusing - one day I'll manage to work them out......... ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:07:42 -0700 From: "Michael J. Cross" Hey Martin, I've noticed that sheet music does not always square with what's actually sung. Don't artists sometimes stray from the path in the name of creative license? Not to question the veracity of what you say, just casting reasonable doubt to keep Bryan's unattended boat afloat temporarily :-) Mike Cross Rochester, NY ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:25 -0700 From: kakman1 Martin, I used to until somewhat recently say the official lyrics on the officially sanctioned sheet music issued by the officially sanctioned music publisher were the end all and be all when it came to these type of disagreements. But then I came to the realisation that many of the rock and roll and pop artists of the day never bothered to write their lyrics down for the publisher or at best had one of their assistants transcribe the lyrics in their best schoolboy script! And when they can't even get that, they hire people to listen very carefully to the records and transcribe the lyrics the best they could. So even the official transcript issued by the publiher is suspect to me. There's hope yet, Plastic Ono Dream! Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:36 -0700 From: BigLarry26 Martin writes: >Pop!! Sorry matey, >The words from the sheet music are > >Boats on a lake >Unattended now the laughter's drowned >I'm incredibly down Hello Brian, Martin, and all, I've always thought it was "they'll have to drown." And I still think it may be that. However, "the laughter drowned" may be right. I must wonder, are the official lyrics are given to the person who transcribes the sheet-music, or are they left to their own ears, as are many faulty liner-note writers? Many times, these people are left to their own devices, as we see in the lyrics to the "Starting Up" CD! Aurally yours, Larry Harris - Dallas, Texas ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:22:11 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins >"boats on the lake unattended now for all to drown" has gotta stay >that way! Brian, in your honor I listened to this song 20 times in a row to determine what it is that I actually hear. Yes, I can somewhat detect "the laughter's drowned" (though I wouldn't have heard the word "laughter" if someone hadn't mentioned it)... but what keeps jumping out at me is "boats on the lake unattended now they're all to drown." The latter makes more sense. Keeping with the dark and lonely theme of this song, the boats are a metaphor...they have been left alone, and will drown. >of course...NOTHING...was better than actually seeing roy wood's army >do this live...and i was able to put my arms around fellow list members >for the chorus. Didn't he ask the audience for an "A"? We were standing right in front of you. What a wonderful memory. :) "Goodbye Blackberry Way...I can't see you, I don't need you..." ********** Subject: "Blackberry Way" vs "Strawberry Fields" Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:16:01 -0700 From: Richard Messum Frankly, i just don't see the similarities. I can hear Beatlesque influences certainly, in the harmonies and in the rhythm guitar, but "Strawberry Fields Forever" would never have occurred to me. First off, "SFF" is far better-produced than "BW," and the instrumentation is crystal clear, as opposed to the murkiness of BW. SFF is slower, and there is just John's solo voice, no harmonies. The melodies, to these old ears, seem completely unrelated. The imagery, which on the surface at least seems pastoral in both, is in fact realistic vs. surrealistic and pessimistic / hopeless vs optimistic / hopeful. If i were to relate BW to a Beatles song, it would be "Things we said today." If, on the other paw, i were to relate SFF to a Move song, it would be "Looking on." ********** Subject: Re: "Blackberry Way" vs "Strawberry Fields" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:02:18 -0700 From: Mike Gough The song I always think of as a companion piece to Blackberry Way is Im Going Home by The Idle Race. Both are heavily Beatle influenced songs, yet they allow the tremendous songwriting talents of Roy & Jeff to shine through. I think that both songs are signposts leading towards the day when as a team (ok, it turned out to be a short lived team) they wanted to carry on the sounds the Beatles had laid out as the ELO. Does anyone know if Roy & Jeff have any contact with each other? What caused the falling out? All these things are unknown to me. ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:12:01 -0700 From: "Martin Kinch" I think whoever left those boats unattended has a lot to answer for. I would have thought that the sheet music would have to be correct. Isn't this what would be owned by the publishers and sold to anyone who wanted to do a cover version? I don't know for sure.. ( even if Brian does think my name is >that loveable martin "i know everything" kinch< (Hi BC. I love you too matey) I've always thought the mix on this track is not that good and the vocal is quite muddy ( perhaps the mix ended up in the lake as well ) Check out the BBC version - or for your interest, I've just downloaded the clip as an mp3 file (also a wav), see if that helps you decide. http://cherryblossomclinic.members.beeb.net/black.mp3 http://cherryblossomclinic.members.beeb.net/black.wav ********** Subject: Re: Drowning in a sea of blackberries Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:51:20 -0700 From: "Tyler Sherman" Not only are lyrics often wrong on sheet music for rock & pop stuff but quite often the music is written wrong as well. The problem my be due to so many rock musicians, including yours truly, being musically illiterate. I depend on my ears to figure most stuff out and it's often more accurate than a chart or sheet music, which I can't read anyway. Our Roy has said he doesn't read or write music, at least not in any conventional manner, so no doubt transcribers create the sheet music and sometimes get it wrong listening to the record...just like we do. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Blackberry Way" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:02:27 -0700 From: garymaher >Song Of The Week: July 7, 2003 >"Blackberry Way" Having known the song for less than a year (idiot that I am), I can offer the benefit of fresh insight from someone new to it. The first thing that struck me was how muddy the production was. It is certainly possibly to do rainy without getting muddy (think John Coltrane's My Favorite Things). Next, I had to rifle through liner notes and my Harry Nilsson records to figure out whether this song or Good Old Desk came out first. The melody may be Nilsson's, but the way it's sung brings to mind the Moody Blues. (Is it "Lazy Day" I'm thinking of? Haven't listened to that stuff in a loooong time.) I have an MP3 of The Grays doing a live acoustic version of this song. R. Tandy on keys on the original, right? Was this his first work with The Move? ********** Subject: Blackberry way way out! Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:09:38 -0700 From: Plastic Ono Dream hey lynn...thank you! i am indeed honored. although i can just see your cat by the 20th time "blackberry way" was played. she must've been under the bed or on the phone to richard tandy asking for a portable keyboard. i can certainly live with "unattended now they're all to drown". it does sound a bit more eloquent...suiting woody's use of the english language. i guess at the next "army" gig if a list member could possibly get to roy & ask him...or if someone can lip-read really good we'd all know for sure. we are an obsessive lot here aren't we? thank you to all who added their thoughts...& i think the maniacal attention to detail shows you what a good song & piece of art "blackberry way" really is, & how great we all are for wanting to appreciate it so much. ********** Subject: Re: Blackberry way way out! Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:19:53 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins >i guess at the next "army" gig if a list member could possibly get to >roy & ask him... I don't know if anyone on the list is going to see the Army at the Americana Festival tomorrow (Sunday) in Nottinghamshire, or Festival Too in Norfolk on the 18th, but Roy will probably sing "Blackberry Way" and perhaps there will be an opportunity to ask him afterwards. We need to be put out of our misery. The truth is out there! ********** Subject: ELO 2 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:26:14 -0700 From: "Tyler Sherman" Just in time for the July 4th weekend, the mailman brought my long delayed "ELO 2: The Lost Planet" 2CD set. As I just moved , I don't yet have my big stereo system set up so I've been listening to it in the car and on boom boxes while working around my new house. I must say, Rob has done a superb job once again. Critics of Mr. Caiger's "slowness" in putting these projects together can go take a flying leap, as far as I'm concerned. It is obvious that he is meticulously paying attention to every small detail, leaving no stone unturned in his effort to make each phase of the "First Light" series as complete as it possibly can be. And so, Rob, I tip my hat to you and say "Thank you, ta, thank you". Just "nudge " Roy to finish the notes for "MFTC", willya? I'm drooling in anticipation! On to the music. Well, what can I say except I concur with those who have already attested to this set's sterling sound quality. Jeff Lynne's vocals always sounded a bit garbled to me on the original LP. They are much clearer on this set. I actually prefer the live BBC version of "From The Sun To The World" on the 2nd CD because the vocals are clearer than the studio version. The "goofing around" version of "Roll Over Beethoven" (hidden bonus track) is great fun to listen to. Of the bonus material, I find the stuff Carl Wayne sang to be the most interesting. I really like "My World", it has an almost gospel flavor to it. I have one burning question about the ELO/Carl Wayne collaboration that is not answered in the notes: was Carl asked to join ELO as lead vocalist? Were these tracks a sort of try-out to see how it would work? Also, it is nice to see Roy get credit for his involvement at long last. Way back when we speculated whether he played on any of these tracks or not before leaving ELO. His influence is apparent all over this album even though he actually on plays on two tracks. Another burning question: did Roy write any material for the original "Lost Planet" concept and, if so, what became of it? Again, great job and thanks to Rob and all who were involved. Bring on the avalanche of reissues! Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: "California Man" comp Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:02:43 -0700 From: DjengoMan Woody cognoscenti, I noticed that EMI rereleased Harvest's California Man compilation. How's the sound quality on this one? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this a precursor to the First Light series and remastered by Rob? I heard that somewhere but I can't recall where. Perhaps I'm mistaken, please shed some light on this disc for me. This is definitely a cult. - Mike Jada ********** Subject: Re: "California Man" comp Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:21:59 -0700 From: "Andrew Footman" The sound quality on this is ex, but it is not from the masters tapes and is not 24 bit remastered. It is well worth £5 but MFTC is near and will have everything on this CD in better sound quality! ********** Subject: Re: Twisted lyrics Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:17:20 -0700 From: "Christian Storm" >Lynn, is it not "posing in a spangled wrapper" - think of Klimt and his >golden, pattern-rich ladies! I agree with Lynnette and always imagine the young lady "Just posing in a Spangle wrapper" Chris S. :) ********** Subject: Re: Twisted lyrics Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:17:07 -0700 From: "George Mackenzie" On Dear Elaine does Roy say "from the gateway to your a**e I am forbidden"? ********** Subject: Re: Twisted lyrics Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:59:43 -0700 From: "Tyler Sherman" George, I don't think Roy is THAT twisted. I'm sure it's "From the gateway to your 'arms' I am forbidden". Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Twisted lyrics Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:03:02 -0700 From: "Chris Roberts" >I don't think Roy is THAT twisted. I'm sure it's "From the gateway to >your 'arms' I am forbidden" Tyler, I certainly think you are closer than George and his 'a**e'! I've always heard it as ...'the gateway to your 'heart'. But I'll have to have another listen. Chris Cardiff, Wales ********** Subject: Roy tape on eBay Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:37:54 -0700 From: "Joseph Davolt" Hi All! I came across this odd item on eBay, and was going to mention something about it to the list. Then, the item was taken off of eBay by the seller. It seems more information had been added after my initial viewing, and before it was removed. The item description is still there to view...sure makes one curious... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2543577840&category=306&rd=1 ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:02:15 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins >I came across this odd item on eBay, and was going to mention something >about it to the list. Then, the item was taken off of eBay by the seller. The auction was ended because the tape is being returned to its rightful owner. ;) ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:26:54 -0700 From: "Joseph Davolt" Now that is good news! Maybe some of this will work its way into Rob's plans... ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:27 -0700 From: Zabadak900 Also elsewhere on E-bay is the contents of the Marc Bolan Fan Club, tonnes of audio masters & video. The only problem w things such as these items is that they can't be properly released unless a license is approved. Otherwise, it's the murky world of bootlegs. ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:12 -0700 From: Keith Fletcher Mmmmm, maybe Rob C could shed some light on this some time, I am sure that he would get to listen and assess the contents at some time. Actually looking forward to Rob writing a book about his time working and locating the catalogs of the bands he has been involved with. I am sure that some record companies would sink right back into the darkness at the thought though. ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:40:04 EDT From: Gmcorie Could the ebay master tapes be the long lost Shazam tapes? louisiana george ********** Subject: Re: Roy tape on eBay Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:52:53 +0100 From: "Andrew Footman" >The auction was ended because the tape is being returned to its >rightful owner. ;) Thank God for that, is it Mustard or Main Street? It is too much to expect it to be Shazam! Starting Up? Glad it is safe now anyway ********** Subject: Re: Multi-instrumentalist indeed! (NME interview) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:03:12 -0700 From: SirSparklejet I first thought the subject line on this was "Multi-Instrumentalist Needed!" and I thought... what... is roy looking for versatile folks to join his band? Sign me up! oh, it says "indeed!"... okay. :( ********** Subject: Re: Important message from Rob re: Move compilation Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:33:54 -0700 From: Bob Coulter I'm just clearing out some old e-mails from my mailbox, and I came across this one from last December. Is this compilation CD still on the schedule? Rob said at the time that it is definitely coming out. Is this release also being delayed by Roy? Bob Coulter Bobcaygeon, Ont. --- Lynn Hoskins wrote: >Rob needs to hear from you on this right away. Feel free to post >your response to the list. If you're shy, you can e-mail me at >lhoskins@earthlink.net with your suggestions and I'll compile >off-list responses for Rob. > >Here's Rob's message for the list, sent from the studio: > >Just when you thought there were more than enough Move compilations... > >Next year will (hopefully) see some exciting releases involving The >Move. In the meantime, a UK double CD Best Of has been scheduled for >release for March / April time. Rather than see the same mistakes made >again that were on 2000's "The Very Best Of The Move" (sic) (Union >Square Records) we've hijacked the release and would like to turn it >over to the fans. > >I know everyone wants a definitive box set, the Fillmore live album, >the original albums with bonus material, BBC Sessions etc, etc - and >these things are all under consideration and being worked on - but >this CD is definitely coming out so the next best thing is to allow >everyone on The Move List to have their say. > >What tracks would YOU like to see on there and what would you expect >to see in the booklet? The double CD will be priced at £10.99 and will >have 55 minutes of music per CD. > >As a guide, think of this CD as an introduction to your dream idea of >a forthcoming Move remaster series. > >Normal service will be resumed in May 2003... > >Rob End of Useless Information #486 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]